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December 27, 2019 45 mins

On today’s episode of the 'Boys and Girl Podcast, Jane and Bobby discuss what appears to be a fatigued Dallas locker room this week. Plus, Ezekiel Elliott passes on talking to the media ahead of Sunday’s big game. And JP Finlay from NBC Sports Washington stops by to preview the Redskins. Follow Jane and Bobby on Twitter and subscribe to get all the latest inside information from two of the most connected people in the Cowboys’ community.

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hello, Boys and Girls, Welcome in to the Boys and
Girl Podcast with Cowboys NFL Network reporter Jane Slater and
NFL Network producer Bobby Bell. Cowboys Community with the inside
scoop on the Dallas Cowboys now coming straight to you

(00:22):
from the Lone Star State. Here's Jane and Bobby. Well,
it's beginning to fill a lot like apathy around here.
I know it's Christmas, but that was a rough locker
room this week. Uh, on the heels of a loss
against the Eagles, where all you have to do is
win and your postseason was short up. Now, as they've
pointed out, they don't control their destiny. They say they're

(00:43):
not going to scoreboard watch. Uh, they've just got to
handle their business at home against the Redskins. But it
just feels flattened there. I'll say right now that I
really feel like I I don't feel like they're going
to win this game on Sunday. I don't know that
this is there's just such a tired feeling around this

(01:04):
whole group right now, and it's like a mental fatigue.
It's like they're just they've been worn down by I think,
failing to live up to the expectations. I was looking
at this today. It's insane to me to think that
since heading it. When we were heading into that Saints game,
we were walking in there, up to the press box
that day and talking about, you know, Dallas one of
the best teams in the league, and now they're missing

(01:25):
Drew Brees, Dallas may come up here four and oh
and then look how we went there. If you would
have told me walking in that day that said, hey,
from this moment on, this Cowboys team was going to
be four and eight over the next thirteen weeks, I
would have thought, no way, there's no chance in health
at this team wins just like you know, a third
of their next twelve games. They're too good. I've seen
wild because when I think back on the Saints season

(01:47):
last year, remember they lost the Cowboys in late November,
and then it felt like they had a hard time
getting on track. But then they did. And we're one
game away from the Super Bowl. We're one bad call
away from the Super Bowl probably right. So your thought was, well,
maybe they'll use this as a setback and right the ship.
But I thought it was telling um. It was this

(02:09):
response from response from Dak Prescott when Jory Epstein brought
up the point that this team was so strong and
a team that you could bank on if they were
down in the second half. Here's the question, here's his answer. Back,
in your first three seasons, you had four or five
fourth quarter comebacks and season, y'll have I need. This
year you're zero when trailing at behalf. What do you

(02:31):
point to in what was working then and what's not working?
And yeah, I mean if I had those answers, that
wouldn't be the case. Uh, but that's definitely been Um,
it's been a frustrating part from me. It's something that
I enjoy is actually is having the ball in in
my hands at the end of game, and um, I've
given our team a chance to win and was unable
to do it this year. Uh. And that's the biggest

(02:51):
frustration part. You go back and look at the past
years to this year. One score games are closed games.
We just didn't get it done this year. And it's
very frustrating. Starts when me starts with the this whole group.
What are some things that carry across those times you
didn't get it done? This year? It feels like everyone
was a different Yeah, I mean, yeah, everyone was different.
That's the tough, tough, tough part about it. There wasn't
one thing that we're all that was always making us

(03:13):
um felt. I guess you can say on on getting points,
but um yeah, it's it's one thing here, it's one
thing that I be taking a sad care just a
bunch of different things that can't happen, and that that
situation the game when it's that critical, we're of the
fourth quarter comebacksman this year, and then his admission that
it's different from week to week why they can't get
things together, and maybe that's what's the most frustrating. I think,

(03:35):
like us here in the media who have tried to
do an autopsy on this season, we can't really figure
out what the ultimate cause of death is going to be.
If they lose this game on Sunday, then I think
starting Monday will get a clearer idea because I think
guys will be more comfortable talking on or off the
record about how this season has gone. I mean you
you'll occasionally here whispers or chatter. It's always you know,

(03:58):
third a person from a person from a person. You'll
hear stuff about maybe this hasn't gone exactly right during
this year, or maybe this relationship isn't so great, and
you hear things like that, but there's nothing really that
we can pinpoint or or put our finger on as
to why this seems so broken. And that's the that's
the word that keeps coming to mind every time I

(04:19):
see this team take the field, and there's just a
sense of broken too, all of it that didn't exist
last year, even when you felt like there were things
broken about it, like Scott Linahan or the receiving corps
or you know the fact that Dac wasn't playing at
the top level all the time, and even throughout all that,
you just felt like, well, that's still a resilient bunch.

(04:40):
That's still a team with great chemistry. And coming out
of camp, I think we all felt like this is
a team with great chemistry. And as it's worn on,
it's like, you know what, there's there's something wrong here.
There's something wrong here that just changing your head coach
isn't gonna fix it. Reminds me of this is stay
with me on the analogy. Oh, I'm ready for your
analogy as I love them. When I graduated college, I

(05:02):
got a two year old Jetta. Love this Jetta like Jetta.
I drove it to Denver for my first career, then
back here to Dallas, and while it was approaching a
hundred thousand miles, we would go and put new tires
on it. We'd put I think we put a new
engine in it at one point. Love that Jetta. You
We literally did everything to keep the Jetta going, and
at times you're like, Wow, this Jetta is really working.

(05:24):
Until one day it didn't. It ended up stalling on
the side of the highway and we realized it was
time to get a new car. And it feels like
for years, we've changed coaches here in Dallas, we've changed personnel,
We've tried to get this car to continue to work,
and at some point you just gotta go. You know,
I'm gonna have to bite the bullet buy a new car.

(05:44):
Do you think, just from your own perspective here, do
you think the biggest problem they've run into this year
is Jason, That Jason's time has just run out, this
this has grown colder, or whatever else? Or do you
think there is some yet undefined and unknown story we
haven't heard that would better explain this that goes past Jason.

(06:06):
It's so hard to say, because Bobby, you know, to
your point, we've heard to your point, we've heard so
many just rumors and conjecture about what's going on in
that locker room and things I don't think we should
necessarily characterize is um being definitive facts. You know, you
have to also weigh in the fact, you know, everybody's
got an axe to grind. Maybe they're playing times. You

(06:26):
just never know, right, I haven't been able to really
put my finger on any of it, and I can't
seem to tie anyone down to give me some sort
of sense or idea as to what's going on. So
in the absence of multiple people confirming one of the
theories that's been thrown at me, I don't have an
answer for you, And sometimes I don't know if they

(06:48):
have an answer. All I know is when you think
about all these lofty expectations we had for this team
coming out of training camp, heading into the preseason, starting
the regular season, that three and o start, this is
not where any of US coaches, players, front office combined
expected this Dallas Cowboys team to be heading into week seventeen. Yeah,

(07:10):
I think everybody at this point acknowledges that the playoffs
are unlikely because regardless of what happens with Dallas, It's
just it's tough to see that knowing all the Eagles
have to do is beat a a you know, bad
Giants team essentially, or a young Giant's team, one that's
still coming together, one that has a talented core. Maybe
good into the future when Jason Garrett takes over their

(07:31):
team or or whatever else. But it's hard to see
Philadelphia losing on Sunday. I have a tough time is
when you think of like the talent they have on
this team right now. I mean it's a mash unit.
They're literally guys were dropping like full lies on Sunday,
and I would see them come back in the game

(07:51):
in battle and the way that Carson Wentz was able
to galvanize this team full of third and four stringers
to get the win. But I also feel like the
Giants getting old old Danny Dimes back. He was you
know him and Eli I might have watched that video
about a million times um in the bar celebrating after
their when over the Redskins the week before. I've got

(08:12):
to think that they're not going to make it easy
on the Eagles. But yeah, to your point, you know.
And I also, I gotta tell you I got off
the phone with Adrian Peterson today. He's always one of
my Him and Josh Norman are two of my favorite
guys in the division to talk to since I'm always
here with the Cowboys, um, because they are so candid,
they are so honest. Josh Norman, who I had not

(08:33):
realized because I've been so myopic on the Cowboys this year,
has been benched. Yeah, he's he's not playing so well anymore,
but he has a he has a heart and soul.
It feels like the end of an era, you know,
when it felt like when Dez Left's like you're kind
of losing a dog in your locker room. But Adrian
talked about the roller coaster of the season that they've had,
and he kind of laughed when I asked him to
characterize it. You know, this is his thirteenth year in
the league. He's seen a lot. What I thought was interesting.

(08:55):
He is, of course from Palatine Um. Most of his
family is, of course Cowboys fans. He says, they're hoping
that he has a good game, but of course they
want a Cowboys win. He talked about coming in here
and being a spoiler now right now they currently sit,
they ended the season with this current record, they would
pick second in the draft. That would be huge, And
then of course Dwayne Haskins comes back next year. Following

(09:16):
the surgery, he's feeling better. A lot of people felt
like they've played tighter games. You know, they've lost by
a touchdown in two of their last three. There. What
was their record in the last six weeks. It's two
and four, But I mean they're they're not far from
being four and two. So I'm looking at this team
and you know what I'm asking him, you know, maybe
you want to tank. We've talked about team tank around
here for the Dallas Mavericks for years. I thought this

(09:38):
answer from Adrian Peterson told you everything you needed. Now,
you know, obviously the Cowboys have a dog in this fight.
They need Philadelphia to get beat by the Giants. They
need to win against you guys. You know, as you
guys sit here with nothing in the postseason to play for,
what do you play for? One to final one? And
do you have a preference who wins out in the East. Yeah,

(10:03):
you know, I think we're playing for just doesn't left
it for all that day. You know, coming in the
next year, you know, we are a teams need to
you know, you need to be thinking about you know,
and I feel like this show that in the past
six weeks and we lost some close games um here
the parent two weeks and um you know, and kind

(10:26):
of like being the story of a lot of seasons,
you know. So you know, we're just motivated because you
know the type of team that we have. We know
the character of the guys as on you know this
on this team, and we all want to win, you know,
we all you know, begin to drop you all move
you the best draft picks through that. You know. We

(10:46):
gotta coaches up here, bi burthers there you know, players
as well, you know, So just off that alone, not
even because of a lot of it they have to
the game, but just off that alone with a lot
of there. You know, Adrian Peterson has always struck me
as such a consummate pro everywhere he's been. And you know,

(11:07):
if you look back on his time in Minnesota and
how tricky that got and then we saw him down
in New Orleans, who coach Payton swore to me there
was never this violent exchange between the two and those sidelines.
It was just literally Peterson saying we need to run
it down there. He's just what I respect about Adrian

(11:27):
is not only does he does he bust his tail
on the field, but off the field. Such a pro.
A little disappointed in Ezekiel Elliott this week. Yeah, Adrian
Peterson was the only start in running back we got
to talk to this week. There was a conference call,
obviously because it's a weird week because of Christmas Monday.
Zeke stands everyone up the media on a conference call.

(11:50):
We've got Christmas plans, folks, We've got lives outside of
this building. You know a lot of people say, well,
you get paid a lot to do your job. We'll
set of Zeke. He got paid a lot this off season.
He and and to be fair, to be fair, Jeff
Heath was also scheduled. Jeff Heath missed the call to
so Jeff Heath and Ezekiel L. Boast both did. But yes,
and look, I know this always feels like a wine

(12:10):
session from reporters. They don't owe you anything. That's fine
when it comes with the jobs. Once you get paid
to do you gotta be a professional. You think I
love being here the day after Christmas and covering that
locker room in this team right now. Yeah, the answers, No,
of course, I want to be doing a million other things.
I love my job, and I'm sure Zeke loves his job.
But there's an aspect to your job, especially when you've

(12:33):
we're incapable of locking up this this game against the
Eagles the week before, which is there are elements to
your job that you just got to do. And that's
an element to his job that he has consistently done.
We had the last time I can remember him having
either I'm not talking or I'm walking away was the
very weak He came back from suspension and he walked

(12:55):
off after like five questions. But he's never just flat
outside I'm not talking and look, I don't know, I
don't know what he's referring to. I'll play this for you.
This was his message to us in the media. I
had a lovely discussion with him last week. I thought
he was great. He talked about how he has never
felt this good, that Tony Pollard has been a great
addition because even when he's not on the field, that

(13:18):
you know, the playbook doesn't change. That was verbatim Zeke
literally of the audio and didn't twist your words. So
he must be talking about somebody. I don't know who
it was, and I get it. Look, I know I
keep bringing this up. The fitbit thing was exhausting, right.
The media did manipulate that. I still have people that
have reached out to me and have texted me, and
of course I heard it from my entire family over

(13:39):
the Christmas holiday. I do want to say that as
a joke, I almost bought you a fit but I'm
glad you did didn't do it. But my point was,
is that the way that the media manipulated that it
was as if it happened yesterday. And all admit, when
you're on one side of the mic, you don't always
see their side of it. Right, Why very keen understanding
of it? Now? I get it everybody. I think everybody's

(14:01):
been pretty fair to Zeke this year. I think the
media Dallas has been incredibly fair to him his entire career.
And I'll raise my hand and say that I've been
one of them as well. I always try to get
the other side. You don't want to editorialize, but I'm
gonna play this year. This is what I'm talking about
if I can give you any advice, Zeke in your career,

(14:22):
you may not want to necessarily hear it from me.
That's fine. He's gotta be a pro Dak Prescott. I'm
sure he doesn't want to talk about the throwing soldier shoulder.
He doesn't want to talk about Jason Garrett's contract. He
doesn't want to talk about the fact that his throws
were off and that they this team leads the league
and dropped passes. And in fact, Dak, because he's technically
been did not practice the last two days. He doesn't

(14:44):
have to think he's required by the NFL to talk,
and he did. He always does. My point is he
gets every aspect that comes with putting the star on
your helmet. And while he hasn't gotten paid yet, in
Zeke's case, when you get paid a certain amount of money,
whether you like it or not, there is an expectation

(15:05):
both in the box score and is in the way
you care yourself. You are now exponentially getting paid more
than your peers, and as such there's added responsibility that
comes with it. So Zeke, I would caution you. I
get it the media twist your words. So I'm gonna
go ahead, and I'm gonna play these verbatim. Answer the

(15:28):
same question twice. Very good work. You'll be trying. And
in case you didn't understand all of it, you may
need to put on headphones to clearly hear. But what
he said there was so y'all can ask me the

(15:49):
same questions y'all do every week. Then ask me the
same question. I give you the same answer twice, but
you'll just reworded it. You'll be trying to get me.
You'all gonna phrase it for the response you all want.
And then he walked into the shower and he he
was kind of chuckling throughout it, as you just heard,
but it was it was a little uncomfortable for a second.

(16:09):
My point is, Zeke, this is a big game. People
want to hear from you. The identity of this team
has long been the run. This team has moved away
from it. That doesn't always translate to wins when they've
done that, even though they've had the gaudy numbers and
they've had the success from the wide receivers. I like you, Zeke.
I want to see you succeed. Stuff like that isn't
going to help narratives in the off season. And maybe
you don't care now that you have a new contract,

(16:31):
But I would just tell you, even though you're young,
I think there's a lot of guys in that locker
room Jason Witten included the Zack Martin's of the world.
They would likely tell you, Look, there are just things
that come with a job. And this week you're the
face of the franchise. Yeah, and this is this is
a week when it's the last week of the season,
their playoff hopes are on the line. There's a lot

(16:54):
of uncertainty about this organization. There's a lot of people
in this organization who have yet to get paid that
want to get paid aid. He's one of them that
has And it's a it's a little unfair not to
stand up and and talk and and and be, you know,
be a face for you know, this unified front there.
Jason Witten talked today, Dak Prescott talked today. I think

(17:16):
it's sometimes it goes to my point is like Dak
does so much around here. You know, at some point
it's like and and and the Zeeks young, how would
you believe you? Okay, Dak and Zeke are like the
same age though, And and we don't have these problems
with Dac. In fact, there's a a locker room full
of people Zeke's age and we we don't always have
the same sort of things happen with those people. And
like I said, I know there's going to be lost

(17:36):
on fans. It's like you sometimes it's like they don't
owe you anything. They don't. It's it's it's more than that.
What are their teammates see when they see that when
the leader of the lockers like, I'm not talking to
the media, they twist my words. And the thing is
that regardless media availability is there, they are required by
the NFL that all talk at least once a week.

(17:57):
Everybody is if if the NFL wants when they to
be made available, and it's it's one of those things
where if Zeke isn't answering some of these questions that
maybe he just doesn't want to answer, that you are
going to leave other guys in that locker room who
are going to have to answer. And that's where it's
whereas you know, if you get Zeke's take on something,
that may be the end of whatever it needs, you know,

(18:19):
needs to be said about it, and and we can
walk out and okay, we've got Zeke's comments now, and
instead you're leaving other guys like Jason Witten or Zach
Martin or whoever else to stand up there and have
to talk about it. And this is the same group
of guys and answered a lot of questions when he
wasn't there for the hold out. M So look, this
is not me coming down too hard on Zeke. I'm
sure Zeke doesn't care, and that's fine. I'm just saying

(18:42):
when you've when you're asking a lot of questions about
what's wrong with this locker room or what's wrong with
this team leadership, is one of those things we've heard about. Yes,
and maybe he was just having a bad week, a
bad day, I get it, But this supports that narrative
a little bit. It does, and in general I think

(19:04):
that again, he he didn't strike me today when he
was telling though, he didn't strike me as pissed off.
You know, it just seemed more like something he didn't
want to do. So I don't want to get curious
who twisted his words. Yeah, that's the thing is that
it did almost come off like he didn't like something
that had been said about one of his quotes recently

(19:24):
or something, because it just seemed like an odd time
to trigger, because it did feel like, as I said,
I think everybody's been pretty fair to him this year
and as you added, his whole career, but I mean,
especially this year, there's a lot of chatter that could
have been had about where you at Mr ninety million dollars?
You know, where I an'tuld doing this? Why aren't you do?
You know, there's a lot there's a lot being placed

(19:44):
on Doc right now as responsibility other people. Mary Cooper,
Oh my gosh, some of the things people were saying
about Mark Cooper. Those are two guys still waiting to
get paid and and and they're under you know, DA's
getting all this criticism while he's on his rookie deal
and still trying to get a contract. You know, Zeke
has gotten his money. Missed all of training camp, was
not with that team throughout all of training camp when

(20:06):
they were trying to get things together and go on
this hopeful Super Bowl run. He missed all that, and
he was in Mexico there. But there's also that's what's
crazy about Zeke is there's also been other ways that
he stepped up this year. The way that he's fully
embraced Tony Pollard, coached him up befront of him, recognize
that it's not always about your individual status. Does great
in the past game. When he's doing past protection, he's

(20:28):
adding blocks. He's when he's he will go out there
and help block for Tony Pollard. Sometimes it literally puts
his body in the lines. There's so many things that
he does right. I guess I'm just I'm falling on
the side of Zeke. This has been a good season
for you. I feel like that's been a good season
for you in the sense of I've seen you step
up in the leadership department. I've seen you step up

(20:48):
with the younger guys in the locker room. That run
game isn't all your faults, the fact that you know
that's where the play calling has gone this year. But
it's like, man, this team needs you right now. And
and maybe you don't get it that that is sometimes
putting on a brave face for the cameras, speaking up
for your head coach, speaking up for your quarterback, speaking
up for this offense. But it matters. Optics matter. And again,

(21:12):
I know this is generally, like you said, it's kind
of a losing issue with the fans, Like generally they're
gonna just side on well, they don't have to talk
to you, even though they actually do have to. It's
part of their agreement as being National Football League players.
But I know this is an area where there's a
bit of a disconnect. But I do know that there
are players in that locker room generally understand media is

(21:34):
part of the job, and so when you're not doing
the job, you're you're you're not taking part, you're not participating.
Then that is an issue that I think players in
that locker wood room would tell you that how other
players handle the media is of importance to them. So
you can say it doesn't matter anything. I would bet
there are people in that locker room who don't always
like the way certain people interact with the media. All right,

(21:54):
But as I say all this, then I'm asking myself,
all right, all right, Dak Prescott has a legitimate case
for us today. Edward ur asked Dak Prescott this question.
This is the last game that Jason has on his
contract the regular season. Do you think of the consequences
of where you guys are and how you got here? Now,
I think it's the last game on mine as well,

(22:15):
so have you. Damn If I speak on anybody else
this future um or their place, I tweet out the
response and everyone has it's it's amazing to me when
you put something in print without giving them the full
video or the context where people are going to take
it on social media. So Dac of course saidies, I
respect to me is like, I'm not going to talk
about another damn man's future, just like a lot of

(22:36):
his teammates that I'm not talking about a man's contract,
you know. De Mark Laurence essentially said that about what
Dak said consistently during training camp about Zeke Okay, right,
So that's where he's coming from. I appreciate that. About
the locker room, they don't talk about each other. They
also don't gossip to us in the media about each other.
There hasn't been one story that's been floated about a

(22:57):
player that's not doing things the right way or that's
the person that's caused this thing to employe. There's been
really no leaks in that respect. I respect that about
the know In fact, you you referenced last week or
two weeks ago that there was a time at one
point this season when you were working on a story
and a player and said, you know, because yeah, I
was trying to protect the unity of the locker and

(23:19):
trying to So yeah, I mean, that's there. There's that's
They are a for the most part, a really media
savvy locker. But what I love about Dacca is I
feel like he just answers things very matter of factly.
He answers all your questions, but by him protecting the
integrity of his head coach. In other words, I'm not

(23:39):
talking about his future. I mean I wouldn't want to
talk about my boss or my coworkers future, right, I
get that we have to ask the question. So this
is where I can honestly see whether there's Wise might
get mad at to me because so as I make
one argument, I can see the other side here Dad
getting his words twisted and him also saying I'm also
on the lack last year of mine. That's not him
saying he's going to go play for another team fans, right,

(24:00):
It's just our current contract situations are technically the same
his rookie contract. The Cowboys could decide not to ring
him back, they could decide to franchise him they could stand,
they could decide to extend him and give him the
extension that he wants. But it's just it's amazing to
me how people completely read that thing wrong. So there
was an example to his boy and his point that

(24:24):
sometimes this thing gets twisted. It does, and I understand
that guys want to be guarded about that. But again,
and this is something also that I referenced a couple
weeks ago when Randall Cobb had said something post game
and I genuinely was looking for clarity and I said
something back to him, and he he didn't like the
question exactly and he said, that's that's not what I said,
don't take it out of context. And you know, it

(24:45):
was like I wasn't trying to And I talked to
him after the scrum and he was cool about it.
He just said he wanted to say with the cameras on,
he wanted to be clear that is not what I said,
That's not the context. And there there are a lot
of guys in there that are are very aware of
how you present yourself to the media and the way
it should be done. And I think that's just the thing.
It may be an instance where Zeke feels like that's
not his strong suit yet, that maybe things come out

(25:07):
the wrong way when he says certain things and he
knows there we're gonna be a lot of questions there today,
so he figured that, you know, protecting my teammates are
protecting our unity, is me not saying things because I'm
not savvy enough to answer these type of questions right now?
That maybe it because there are there are there are
times he had that issue, uh, And I think he
was just joking, but he didn't mean to sound as

(25:28):
flippant when he was talking about the Salvation Army thing
last year and he said I'll pay their little fine
and it sounded really aggressive and probably didn't make people.
And I think it's just instances like those where it's
like he's just he's not always the most He's not
Randall Cobbs standing at the locker yend. He's not even
dak and and understanding how to handle the media. And

(25:48):
so I think that it could just be that he
felt like, with such an important week, I don't need
to say anything. It may have been in something that
he just looked at himself and said internally, I don't
know how to give these answers in a way that
will will be palatable, and so I'm not going to
do it. I feel like I made an argument and
then I also feel like I like literally contradicted my

(26:09):
argument all in one. Kind of us too. We're doing
point counterpoint here, kind of wild. Uh. For an update
on Dak Prescott ahead of this game, you know, he
did talk about the fact that you know it's is
his approach to this injury this week and the Redskins
game is very similar to what they what they saw
with the Eagles. Didn't see him throw Onceday, didn't see
him thrown on Thursday. He's going to try and throw
on Friday. But he's been really big on the cold therapy,

(26:33):
heat therapy alternating it. But I thought this question was
Edward or was on one today shout out to Edward
or ESPN. He asked him about the way he was
I had asked it a lot more delicately and the
response was cold, hot therapy. Well, then ed just went
in and asked this, did you wind up taking me
a painkilling injection before the game last week? And again

(26:54):
at half time? I did what was so essentially Yeah,
for all of those wondering he is getting a pre
game little boost, um, and it sounds like he even
got one during the half against the Eagles. So look,
he's obviously battling pain. He's battling through this one. Um.
But he also told me no added protection ahead of
this game. Yeah, and he he didn't play his best

(27:16):
game against the Eagles. He started out a little better,
but then they had the drops and they had some
other issues. I wonder if some of it, because we
had discussed this actually when we came in here on
my day, I wonder if some of the shoulder and
some of the issues he's feeling right there has caused
him to slip a little bit mechanically, because we did
notice like the footwork didn't look like it had earlier
in the season. He looked at the Eagles game, specifically
the one where he overthrew Mark Cooper. He kind of

(27:37):
whipped his back leg out like he used to, which
is something he's talked about this year. Is this is
something that John Kitton affixed. And so when you talk about, well,
how much can this possibly be affecting him, Well, if
he's not out there getting the getting the practice reps,
you know, doing those things over and over again to
make them second nature. You can potentially start seeing and
I'm not saying for sure that's what is, but you
can potentially start seeing changes that he's made this year,

(27:59):
slip been a little bit and falling back into bad
habits because he's not there during the practice week, not
able to do some of those things so important for
him to practice. And if they want to keep their
season going, they're they're gonna need him to step up
on Sunday against the Redskins. Well, we are now joined
by one of my favorite beat people across the entire country,
JP Finley. Uh. He covers the Redskins as Redskins Insider

(28:20):
for NBC Sports Washington. He has also host of the
Redskins Talk podcast, which for a long time he co
hosted with UH. If you are a cross listener to
Cowboys cast our friend rich Tandler over there, Jp, you
can fall him on Twitter at JP Finley, NBC S JP.
How you doing, man, I am doing great, Mary Christmas
to you guys, and ready ready to get to Jerry World.

(28:43):
I always love coming down there. Yeah, we get the
we get the post game beer, and uh, I'm sure
all of us here in Dallas are gonna need it
after what's been a pretty tough season. But you know,
the last time the Cowboys saw the Redskins, they played
one of their better defensive games of the year. In fact,
I think that's all the fewest yards they've allowed to
anybody was against the Redskins in Week two. A lot

(29:04):
of changes, Jay Gruden obviously out now, um, and and
more of a focus it feels like on letting Adrian
Peterson b Adrian Peterson than when Jay when Jay Gruden
had been there, And so I guess just talk about
where the Redskins are at right now, um, and what
this future looks like. Bill Callahan of course is interim

(29:24):
head coach. Any chance he's there for the long term
or or what what stage, what season of change are
the Redskins and currently heading into this final week? Yeah,
well it's it's it's funny, and I know Dallas fans
are up in the arms, and it's certainly been a
tough season down there with the hot start now things
and have gone. But for you guys to say it's
been a tough season, you should come and hang out

(29:46):
in Ashburn, Virginia for a little while. Um. It is
a train ren here. Frankly Gruden was fired after Week five.
Bill Callahan, who Cowboys fans nowell has taken over his
interim head coach. And the players hated it at first,
and Callahan kind of broke through with them. There's a
it's pretty widely reported up here now. Before they played

(30:09):
the Lions, which I think was their week uh week
eleven game, Thanksgiving week, Um, they had just got blown
out by the Jets at home and nobody should have
vote out by the Jets, and they Callahan had a
team meeting and he lit into these guys and said
some some pretty raw, real things to a number of players.

(30:32):
And this team has largely responded since that moment, and um,
you know, the record still stinks. They're gonna finish the
year probably three and thirteen. I think Dallas is gonna
win because the Skins have just a decimated secondary, but
they've been playing hard and and they've got young players
that are starting to develop. And in a lost season,

(30:54):
all you really want to be able to do is
point towards some reason for hope, you know, for the future.
And I think at quarterback Dwayne Haskins, you know, his
last two games, it seemed like the light went on
and he was showing off the big arm and all
the things he get at Ohio State. He won't be
playing Sunday because he heard his ankle against the Giant Um.

(31:17):
But I think there's a Terry McLaurin is just a stud.
I mean, he is a legit number one receiver in
the NFL. I don't know that he's gonna play on
Sunday either, he got a concussion, but there are there
are some building blocks for this team for the future.
The biggest question though, is it's kind of beyond Bill Callahan.
Because Callahan has been on the interim tag the whole time.

(31:38):
I expect I don't expect him to keep the job,
even though he's been admirable in a tough spot. The
big question up here, though, is the front office. What
are they gonna do with Bruce Allen. Redskins fans absolutely
hate Bruce Allen. Um, you guys, you you'll get a
kick out of it. So Bruce Hallen's the team president.
He's been here a decade, They've had no playoff win,

(32:00):
and they just just notched his one hundred loss as
a Redkins executive. UM. But seriously, check out like the
official Redskins Twitter page, you know, at Redskins, any of
their tweets, look below it and it's just every Redskins
fan respawned with hashtag fire Bruce Allen and like every
Sunday NBC that hashtag starts trending. It's a it's an

(32:24):
ugly situation that myself and others have reported is you know,
as close to his actual removal as it's ever been.
But what I've been saying, because I mean, that guy,
he could dodge bullets, So until it is officially done,
you never know what's gonna happen. He's like the Teflon GM.

(32:45):
I mean, we're sort of dealing with that with the
coach in Dallas, Jason Garrett, and I gotta tell you it,
just the mood here feels very flat ahead of what
is an all important final opportunity for the Cowboys getting
the playoffs JP. When I look at that offense and
Adrian Peterson, he and I had a fascinating conversation earlier
today about how he started this season riding the bench

(33:08):
and then was sporadic four games after that, and then
Jay left and then he all of a sudden finds
himself uh, in a starring role once again in this offense,
and now he's a hundred and eighty yards shy of
his tenth one thousand yards season. What have you seen
from Adrian Peterson? And is that going to be the
key to this game? Is? Especially with how the Cowboys

(33:28):
have got this decimated run defense. Right now? Do you
put the ball in his hands? Oh yeah, I'd expect
him to get a lot of gary. Um. Honestly, on
a personal level, getting to cover and getting to know
a p is one of like the highlights of my career.
I mean, that guy to me of running back I've seen,

(33:50):
it's probably the best I've ever seen, maybe Ladini in Um,
you know, I was a kid for Barry and Emmett
like I didn't really you know, get to watch them
like I'm watching that out Um. And you talked to
him and he's such a great guys, insightful and respectful
of his place in history. Um. Honestly, Well, I think

(34:10):
when Gruten made Peterson inactive week one in Philly, I
really think that was one of kind of the It
wasn't the final straw for Snider to fire because it
didn't happen for another month. But that was very, very
fresh and Dan's mind when that happens. When you look
at you mentioned Adrian Peterson likely to carry the rock

(34:32):
a lot on Sunday, and Terry mclauren is kind of
iffy with that concussion. And mclauren is definitely a a stud.
He's a star, you know, a butting star that a
lot of people are really excited about, especially how he's
come on recently. Um, what kind of passing game options
are they going to have with no Dwayne Haskins and
potentially no Terry McLaurin. They got a young another rookie,

(34:54):
an undrafted rookie at a Kansas not exactly a football powerhouse.
But this kid, Steven Sims, has wheels. Man, he is
really fast, a really good slot player. Um, he had
two touchdowns last week. I think Sims. Sims has gotten
I want to say, more than twenty targets in the
last two games. Um. He and Wayne were really developing

(35:16):
a good a good connection. And I think Keena will
look to him as well. Keno will start this week. Um.
So Sims is a guy that you know, not many
people have heard of, but like if you're a if
you're looking at in a in a daily fantasy league,
I would get the Sims in your lineup. He's gonna
get a lot of looks. They have another rookie wide out,

(35:36):
Kelvin Harmon, who's been solid. He's made a couple of
spectacular catches, but doesn't have any like real big games
to point to. I think he could he I think
he'll get a lot of actions on Sunday if Harry
doesn't play. Um, that's that's kind of it. I mean
there's other Cam Sims, and I mean there are other names,
but of the of the players of note to be

(35:58):
those two. And you know, Chris Thompson has been a
mainstay for the Redskins for for years and he goes
back to when Shanahan looked here and uh, this will
probably be his last game in the Redston uniform, is
my guests. They like to get him involved in the
screen game and catching passes out of the backfield, and
you know, like like Jane mentioned, I think a p

(36:19):
has been such a big part of the offense this
year that he's been He's been catching a bunch of
passes the last three or four games. He's been getting
plenty of looks out of the backfield, So I think
they'll have to try to generate their offense creatively without mcclaurin,
and Terry might play, but you know, it's Thursday and
he's still in the cushion protocol, so I don't know

(36:39):
how good that looks for him playing UM, but I
think you're gonna see a lot of running of football.
Ap is gonna get his chances. I don't I don't
know if they can get eight and get to a thousand,
but I think they'll give him the opportunity, and then
I think Watcher steven sims he'll probably turn a few heads.
So I was fascinating to see this too. With the Cowboys.
You know, they've got all these talented wide receivers in

(37:00):
Randall cob A, Marie Cooper, Michael Gallup, and they lead
they lead the league and dropped passes. Now, of course
some of those because they're simply throwing the ball more,
but A Marie Cooper has been a little off lately.
Although at home, uh he's you know, he's actually had success.
It's on the road that we've seen some pretty disparaging stats.
So given that they're gonna need not only the run game,

(37:20):
for the Cowboys going but this passing game, I was
disappointed to hear because I've been so focused on the
Cowboys this season. One of my favorite corners in the
league has been playing much, Josh Norman. What's been going
on with Norman? Are we going to see him at
all this weekend? The situation is bizarre, honestly is it's

(37:42):
been on and and you know, I've covered Josh four
seasons now you get to know him a little. Like
I'm not gonna say I feel bad for pro athletes
that's made, you know, fifty million bucks in his career
or whatever. But I think what they're doing to him
is it's really pretty. I don't know what words I'm
allowed to stay here, but I don't think it's very nice.

(38:03):
I think that, UM basically the the understanding, and no
one is this has not been confirmed by anybody, but
basically Norman gets a roster bonus every game he's active,
so they're not playing him at all. I mean, they're
signing guys off the street. This week. They had signed
two more guys off practice squad. They're gonna come in

(38:26):
this week and they'll start in Jerry World on Sunday,
going up against Gallup and Cooper so they could keep
Norman on the bench. You see, that is fascinating me.
J I'm glad that you're here to answer this for
me because when I reached out, as I always do
when I cover both sides of the game on Sunday,
of course I wanted Josh Norman. He's one of my
favorites that I've interviewed on an opposing NFC team, And

(38:47):
when they told me that he wasn't doing media and
he quite frankly hasn't been play, I didn't get a
lot of good answers on it, and so I've been
curious to that point because I started asking, well, well,
who do you guys, and of course no offense cities,
up and coming guys. I didn't know enough about them
to think that anything they would add would give me

(39:07):
a value on game day. Well, you're right, because they
just signed them on Tuesday. They kind him on Christmas
Stave culture the Norman thing specifically, So there's kind of
this working theory up here that they've benched Norman completely,

(39:28):
but they've kind of bought his silence in a way,
because you know Josh, he's usually fairly outspoken insightful. Um,
you know, he usually has plenty to say, and he
hasn't talked at all on this and and the theory is, okay,
he's getting his game check and there in turn, he's

(39:50):
not gonna bash the organization. I don't know. Does that
feel like Norman? Do you? No, it doesn't. And Pa
thirty grand to a guy with a fifty million dollars
contract probably is the port you can't buy. But that's
I think. No, I don't, I don't, I don't know it.

(40:11):
It's it's shocking. It's important to point out a couple
of things. Though Norman was not playing well at all
earlier this year, so so benching him. And when they
were healthy, they had so Quentin Dunbar is a good player,
Quentin Dunbar. It's a good young cornerback, So Dunbar starting.
And then they had two other guys, Baby and Moreau,

(40:32):
who has been playing with slots for them when he's
really best suited to play on the outside, just the
way he runs and he's got long arms like he's
a he's an outside corner. And then they have this
young kid, Jimmy Morland, who is a seventh round rookie
out of James Madison, who could play and he was
making plays for them, but he's only a slot corner
that that is the right spot for him. So to

(40:54):
bench Norman and to go with Moreau and Moreland as
part of the kind of this youth movement, as much
as it's a tough pill to swallow, kind of makes sense.
You understand that because Norman's not playing well, he's he
has a year left on his zeal but I'd be
shocked and the Red teams will release him that you
get a twelve million dollar cap savings that they do. Um,

(41:14):
So the youth movement thing makes sense. But then what
happened is all of those guys I mentioned are now hurt.
Dunbar and Moreland or a I R. Moreau is very questionable.
He's missed a few games, and they're they're signing guys
off the streets to play ahead of Josh and it's crazy.
But then against the Eagles two weeks ago, Norman finally

(41:37):
end because everybody got hurt, they had to play him,
and then he gets beat for the game for the
game winning touchdowns Marson wentz find but uh, you know
the readers the Eagles receiver situation. I haven't heard any
of those guys either, but Carson Wentz found Um greg
Ward in the back of the end zone and Norman
was just just a hair slow and coverage. So it's
been a it's been a bad year for Norman, and

(42:00):
I think he will look forward to a fresh start
next Well. JP, you know, maybe the Redskins saw how
much success the Eagles had with guys off the street
beating the Cowboys last week, and so they think they'll
give that a try. JP Findley does great work covering
the Redskins. If you're looking for somebody to fill you
in on the enemy on your social media account, you

(42:22):
should givehim a follow at JP Finley NBC as Finley
is spelled with an A, by the way, not an E. JP.
We appreciate you man, Thank you guys. Hopefully I'll see
you on Sunday. Jerrys at the beginning, you know it
is Thursday, Bobby, so I kind of want to do
a throwback here. Yes, it fits, its throwback Thursday, and
it will air on Flashback Friday, so we're good. My

(42:44):
favorite interview was with a one does Bryant number eighty
eight after that game here at a T and T Stadium. Oh,
this is such good content. I missed this all right.
Does a lot of emotional talking between you and Josh
Norman out to the game. What was said? I want
to say, I won't say emotional on my end, I'm
gonna say emotional. He's because I was perfectly fine. I

(43:05):
was just wearing his tout the whole night. That's what
I was doing, you know, and I enjoyed it and
watching me to get their money back. I know you
guys have had a work approach, But go ahead, We're
gonna celebrate this for just a little bit, right, Or
it's not just a little bit. I'm gonna celebrating. I'm
gonna celebrating good you know, all through the week. Um,
I'm celebrating this win especially, you know, I just want
to expose Jashing on me. So I'm gonna play um

(43:26):
film out on him. You know how I did him,
you know throughout the Dame. Well, let's hope that the
Cowboys wear the redskins out in this one. Or we're
gonna be talking on our next podcast. Are they gonna
fire Jason? Are they just gonna let him quietly go?
When does the coaching start the coaching search start. Who

(43:46):
are they going to be looking for? We keep talking
about urban Meyer still the one that's gonnered the most interest.
Jason Garrett saying that he's not thinking about his future. Um,
but he'll be thinking about his future then, yeah, he absolutely, Well,
we'll all be thinking about his future and the futures
of a lot of people. It's it's gonna be an
eventful off season and it's my future living here Star.
It's kind of funny to think, like, I mean, it's

(44:08):
it seems like it's been a year, and it seems
like it's been like two weeks that the season has
been going on. But yeah, it's it's a little odd
to think we maybe just a few days away from
this season mercifully going to a close. But you need
to pull the plug. It's it's so there's so much
broken here. There there are changes that you have to make.
And Bobby I was buying in I started drinking the
cool aid again. It was that it was that blue

(44:30):
kool aid. I started drinking it. I thought that they
were going to you know, I thought it was going
to be the Jerry Jones mightas touched are you're not
saying prepare for the possibility anymore. Today it felt irrevocably broken,
felt it felt really it did feel kind of saddened there.
But you know, through all the changes, whatever happens, we'll
we'll be here throughout the off season to talk about them. Well,

(44:52):
we'll be here to record him on our friendly roadcast
pro which if you're looking for something to record your
podcast on, you can do that, but that's what will
be doing this offseason. We will be, uh, I imagine,
pretty much tied here all spring. Can't wait.
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