May 20, 2024 • 16 mins
Guest Host George Knapp and guests Joerg Arnu and Linda Hellow discuss the FBI raid on their homes which is related to Area 51.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Linda, I'd like to ask you this. You're good shared
this with me the last time that we talked, when
I was up in Rachel. What it's like now, whether
there's still any residual effects in effect something like PTSD.
Do the two of you wake up at night wondering
are the agents coming back? Do you kind of get
a cold sweat, peek out the window kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
It's not as bad as it was for the first
probably six months for me. I mean, yes, if we
hear a noise, my ears perk up and I'm you know,
looking at the doors. I'll be honest, I have to
laugh because sometimes because it happened on a Thursday, that's
the Wednesday night, is when I think about it, like,
you know, that is this the day that they're you
know Thursdays? Is that the day that they come? I mean, yeah,
(00:50):
it doesn't leave, it doesn't completely go away. So but
it's very very I think I can manage it a
lot better now than I could for the first probably
six months.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
The irony to me, Yorg is, you know, remember a
couple of years ago, Storm fifty one. All the UFO
people wanted to cross the base and storm the facility
and let's see those aliens. And you were sort of
the leader at the opposition. No, it's a bad idea,
don't do it. Yes, security at the base could stop you.
You get in trouble, thrown in jail. You just thought
it was a bad idea. All the way around. You
(01:21):
were basically sticking up for Area fifty one and its secrecy.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
Right, Yeah, I was. I went to several commissioners meetings
speaking against the storm Area fifty one event. I wanted
to have the whole area completely closed off to visitors
and thereby eliminate the problem. But they didn't listen to me,
and I did what I could on the Rachel website,
(01:45):
which I also manage. The address is rachel dash Nevada
dot com. On that, let's say I try to inform people,
you know, this is the desert. We are a town
of fifty people on a good day. Don't expect anything.
Any facilities here, don't expect you know, we're going to
be running out of water, We're going to be running
(02:07):
out of food, We're going to be running out of
there's no gas in Rachel at the time the gas
station wasn't open. So if we have three million or
even three hundred thousand people coming to Rachel at the
same time, Rachel cannot handle it. An Area fifty one
is going to have their ways, you know, they they
(02:27):
don't need to you know, they said, well they can't.
I don't know, they can't kill us all or whatever
they said. And they're stupid to call for the storm
Area fifty one deal. They don't need to do that.
They have much better ways of dealing with intruders, and
nobody's going to get through. You know, they've found weapons
(02:47):
and all that stuff. They are very sophisticated intuitionion devices.
You're not going to sneak in there. And as it happened,
the event ended up being a lot less people than thought.
But yes, I was very much I guess doing the
job of Avery fifty one pr by saying this is
(03:09):
not a good idea, and if you come to have
a good time, by all means, do that, but don't
try to storm the boundary. Don't don't try to don't
try to sneak into Area fifty one. What people don't
realize is it's not like in the X files. When
motor jumps over the fence and he's right into inside
the base, you're looking at fifteen miles of desert. Even
(03:31):
if you penetrate the boundary, Even if you make it
across the boundary and make it past the camel dudes,
the security guys, you're still looking at fifteen miles of
desert with all kinds of surveillance devices before you even
get to see the base.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah, so let's talk about what they were really after,
what this was all about. Please share with our listeners
about the warrants, what you were able to see when
they finally hand your copies of the warrant, how much
information is contained therein.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Well, the first thing I noticed was that the copy
of the warrant that I was handed started on page
I think thirty nine or forty, so there was a
bunch of pages missing that I have no idea what
they say. The search one is sealed. I'm sorry the file,
(04:24):
and the file is sealed, I can't get any more information.
And the search ones it speaks in vague terms about
taking photos of area fifty one, publishing photos of area
fifty one, selling photos of area fifty one. That is
not a crime. People do it all day long. Like
(04:47):
I said, Google, Google Earth has better images of Area
fifty one and they market these images. Yes, I have
sold images that I took off Area fifty one to
various movie productions, to documentary productions. That is, in my opinion,
not a crime. And you know, anyone can go on
(05:09):
Google Earth and get better pictures. So this was, again
I think, an attempt to bully me. And unfortunately, and
now I'm getting to something that I really would like
to listeners to know. Unfortunately, I made a bad decision
and removed some content from my website. I was bullied
(05:31):
into that decision. I was scared at the time. I
regret removing that content and I am in the process
of restoring that content.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
So you took a guess. You took a guess at
what content might have checked them off.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Essentially, I removed the most recent additions to the website.
I figured, Okay, if they come down on me like this,
it's gotta be something to here the reason. So there
was a number of recent images that I had posted
that I decided at the time, Again, it was a
(06:09):
bad decision. It is not an admission of fields by
any way. I was bullied into not thinking straight. I
removed those images. I have in the meantime restored the images.
If people know how to get to the Internet archives,
(06:30):
I'm sure a lot of people will know what I'm
talking about. They can see the images again. As they
pull up pages that contained the images from before the raid,
they can see the images. And I am in the
process of restoring the HTML code also that contained these images,
so they will soon be back on my website.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Let's talk about what it might have been. I'm sorry,
go ahead.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
I have nothing to hide, and this was a bad decision,
no admission of guild. And you know, if I did
something wrong, it wasn't in those images, and I don't
know what it is. And I want I want to
be fully transparent. I want people to see. Okay, here's
(07:19):
the search warrant. Here is exactly what I have. Here
is what I know. This is my communication or lax
eraor with the FBI. So I started the website Area
fifty fifty one FBI rate dot com again Area fifty
one FBI rate dot com, and I published everything I
(07:39):
have about the case on that website. The search warrants
are there photos of the damage, They cause. Is there
the lies that they told us communication with various representatives
in Congress that we ask for help. It's all on
that website and we also have a link to a
(08:02):
go fundly page on that website. I would like to
take this opportunity to think from the bottom of our hearts,
thanks those people that helped us out with a go
Fundily page. We have recovered more than half of the damages,
more than half of the thirty three thousand dollars that
(08:23):
we haven't damages, and we are very very grateful for
the people that helped out with financial support and also
emotional support in this difficult time after the race.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
We ask you about the agencies involved. You mentioned FBI
a bunch of times, but there's somebody else that's involved.
That's OSI Office of you know, the Office of Specional
Investigations for the Air Force. What were they sort of
the impetus you think for this thing that they got
the FBI to be the muscle for this operation. Were
they leading the interrogation or could you tell that is
(08:58):
what it.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
Looks like to me. The OSI doesn't have jurisdiction over
American civilians, so they needed the FBI to be the muscle.
Like you said, it came from the OSI, there's no
doubt about it. And the two agents that were interrogating me,
one of them, like I said, was an OLSI agent,
(09:19):
and he seemed to be the one much more interested
in interrogating me and in getting information out of it.
So the way I understand the situation at this point
is that somebody way up in the food chain of
the air Force stumbled upon my website or about some
(09:40):
content on my website and had a fit. And when
somebody way up in the food chain has a fit,
that is not good. So people under him got a
federal judge to sign off on the search warrant to
silence me, to shut down my website. And this comes
(10:02):
from one I toldly believe this comes from one individual,
or from a very small group of individuals high up
in the US air for food chain. And they better
hope that I better not ever find out who they are.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
You know, not to let the FBI off the hook.
But I think I've told you this in person. I've
worked with the FBI on pretty big stories over the years.
I still like to think of them as the good
guys in this not necessarily in this but in general,
after you and I talked the last time, I reached
out to some federal law enforcement people that I knew
and described the situation. They said, look, we don't make
(10:40):
this stuff up. We don't go on vendettas in general,
and if a federal magistrates signed off on it, there
must be something that was able to use to convince
that judge that this was worth pursuing that the search
warrant was in fact warranted. So I guess the concern
is what could be You know, you're usually pretty careful
(11:03):
about the content. Here's one of the thing that came
to my mind. You tell me what you think about it.
Is so there was a guy who a couple of
years ago flew over Area fifty one with permission. I
don't I know he had permission to fly over it.
I don't know if he had permission to shoot video.
But he recorded a whole bunch of images, and he
gives a lot of them to me at KLAS. We
(11:24):
put him on the air and put them on a website.
And I guess maybe he gave more of them to you.
Have you thought that maybe something in that was what
set them off.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
I don't think that is what set them off that
might have contributed to it, like a million other things
as well, the images that we took from Tikaboo and
all that. I don't want to comment on that too much.
I do not think that what he did. I know
that what he did was not illegal. I don't think
(11:57):
that it has any that is should give any one
reason for alarm. I think this was more of a
bullying tactic that was targeted against me. What may and
here I'm really speculating what may or may not be
a factor in this whole thing is. Shortly after this happened,
(12:22):
I was contacted by someone who claims to have flown
a drone into the airspace of Area fifty one to
propose lake and to have taken pictures there. This was
like within two or three days after the raid, and
he said something along the lines I'm sorry you got
(12:45):
in trouble. I am probably the reason, and this is
what I did, kind of bragging about it, and you know,
I thought I must to myself. A consumer drone can't
do that. So either this guy has a very sophisticated
drawn or he's just talking. So I didn't take any chances.
(13:06):
I wanted to be a good citizen still after the raid.
After all they did to me, and I forwarded it
that emails straight to the FBI. I have never heard
anything about it. I the FBI didn't even acknowledge the receipt.
I did what I had to do. I don't know
if the guy was so real. If he was, then
of course that would have really been a big reason
(13:28):
for concern, and they might have thought, hey, this guy
and Rachel has a drawn maybe that was him, and
you know, maybe it was just a case of mistaken identity.
Who knows. I have never had contact with that guy. Again,
I have never seen the pictures. I don't know if
they exist, and I know nothing, and I don't want
to know anything about what he did.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
I mean, you've said it before that you know, you
can get better images of the base and whatever's going
on out there from Google Earth or other kinds of platforms.
There's a lot of stuff out there, you know, a
lot of eyes are on every fifty one. People are
curious about it, in part because the secrecy is so
off the charts, you know, it's it's can be a
little excessive at times. People are naturally going to be
(14:09):
curious about that aren't they.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Yeah, they are. And you know you can buy satellite images.
You can contact the satellite operator and you can tell them, hey,
this is a rect angle, I want image an image
of that rectangle. Give them the coordinates and they take
you an act an image from today and they provided
to you within a couple of days. It costs a
(14:33):
couple thousand bucks, twenty five hundred bucks something like that,
and you get a very current photo of Area fifty
one in thirty three centimeter in about one foot detail
one square foot detail. It's it's really Area fifty one
has been always so good at keeping things under wraps
(14:57):
that what they don't want you to see you on
the going to see they have all these hangars and
they're building a new big hangar every two years. Every
two years there's a new hangart area of jewelry. And
that's all they need. They put the good stuff in there,
and they fly it at night. I mean when you
know in Rachel will hear stuff flying at night all
(15:19):
the time, but who's to tell what it is. And
during the daytime it looks like any other military base
and you can look at it all day long. I
could hike up to the hills. If I still could
right around area fifty one, like Freedom Ridge that was
accessible up until nineteen ninety five, and I could look
at it and I would probably not see anything that
(15:41):
is of any concern. They have the security down so
well and they have all the infrastructure for it that
nothing is exposed that shouldn't be exposed.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Makes you wonder if there was some wide panorama that
somebody talk at somewhere there's one tiny glimpse a part
of something that set them off that wasn't supposed to
be seen because somebody made a mistake.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Well, if that's the case, then they would have been
much better off to let me know in private, Hey, look,
take this image down. I would have taken it down,
nobody would have known anything about it, and it would
have been gone. But by making it a big deal.
If that's the case, then yeah, it's going to be
very soon. It's going to be back on my website.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at
one am Eastern and go to Coast to coastam dot
com for more
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
Linda, I'd like to ask you this. You're good shared
this with me the last time that we talked, when
I was up in Rachel. What it's like now, whether
there's still any residual effects in effect something like PTSD.
Do the two of you wake up at night wondering
are the agents coming back? Do you kind of get
a cold sweat, peek out the window kind of thing.
Speaker 3 (00:27):
It's not as bad as it was for the first
probably six months for me. I mean, yes, if we
hear a noise, my ears perk up and I'm you know,
looking at the doors. I'll be honest, I have to
laugh because sometimes because it happened on a Thursday, that's
the Wednesday night, is when I think about it, like,
you know, that is this the day that they're you
know Thursdays? Is that the day that they come? I mean, yeah,
(00:50):
it doesn't leave, it doesn't completely go away. So but
it's very very I think I can manage it a
lot better now than I could for the first probably
six months.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
The irony to me, Yorg is, you know, remember a
couple of years ago, Storm fifty one. All the UFO
people wanted to cross the base and storm the facility
and let's see those aliens. And you were sort of
the leader at the opposition. No, it's a bad idea,
don't do it. Yes, security at the base could stop you.
You get in trouble, thrown in jail. You just thought
it was a bad idea. All the way around. You
(01:21):
were basically sticking up for Area fifty one and its secrecy.
Speaker 4 (01:24):
Right, Yeah, I was. I went to several commissioners meetings
speaking against the storm Area fifty one event. I wanted
to have the whole area completely closed off to visitors
and thereby eliminate the problem. But they didn't listen to me,
and I did what I could on the Rachel website,
(01:45):
which I also manage. The address is rachel dash Nevada
dot com. On that, let's say I try to inform people,
you know, this is the desert. We are a town
of fifty people on a good day. Don't expect anything.
Any facilities here, don't expect you know, we're going to
be running out of water, We're going to be running
(02:07):
out of food, We're going to be running out of
there's no gas in Rachel at the time the gas
station wasn't open. So if we have three million or
even three hundred thousand people coming to Rachel at the
same time, Rachel cannot handle it. An Area fifty one
is going to have their ways, you know, they they
(02:27):
don't need to you know, they said, well they can't.
I don't know, they can't kill us all or whatever
they said. And they're stupid to call for the storm
Area fifty one deal. They don't need to do that.
They have much better ways of dealing with intruders, and
nobody's going to get through. You know, they've found weapons
(02:47):
and all that stuff. They are very sophisticated intuitionion devices.
You're not going to sneak in there. And as it happened,
the event ended up being a lot less people than thought.
But yes, I was very much I guess doing the
job of Avery fifty one pr by saying this is
(03:09):
not a good idea, and if you come to have
a good time, by all means, do that, but don't
try to storm the boundary. Don't don't try to don't
try to sneak into Area fifty one. What people don't
realize is it's not like in the X files. When
motor jumps over the fence and he's right into inside
the base, you're looking at fifteen miles of desert. Even
(03:31):
if you penetrate the boundary, Even if you make it
across the boundary and make it past the camel dudes,
the security guys, you're still looking at fifteen miles of
desert with all kinds of surveillance devices before you even
get to see the base.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Yeah, so let's talk about what they were really after,
what this was all about. Please share with our listeners
about the warrants, what you were able to see when
they finally hand your copies of the warrant, how much
information is contained therein.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
Well, the first thing I noticed was that the copy
of the warrant that I was handed started on page
I think thirty nine or forty, so there was a
bunch of pages missing that I have no idea what
they say. The search one is sealed. I'm sorry the file,
(04:24):
and the file is sealed, I can't get any more information.
And the search ones it speaks in vague terms about
taking photos of area fifty one, publishing photos of area
fifty one, selling photos of area fifty one. That is
not a crime. People do it all day long. Like
(04:47):
I said, Google, Google Earth has better images of Area
fifty one and they market these images. Yes, I have
sold images that I took off Area fifty one to
various movie productions, to documentary productions. That is, in my opinion,
not a crime. And you know, anyone can go on
(05:09):
Google Earth and get better pictures. So this was, again
I think, an attempt to bully me. And unfortunately, and
now I'm getting to something that I really would like
to listeners to know. Unfortunately, I made a bad decision
and removed some content from my website. I was bullied
(05:31):
into that decision. I was scared at the time. I
regret removing that content and I am in the process
of restoring that content.
Speaker 2 (05:42):
So you took a guess. You took a guess at
what content might have checked them off.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
Essentially, I removed the most recent additions to the website.
I figured, Okay, if they come down on me like this,
it's gotta be something to here the reason. So there
was a number of recent images that I had posted
that I decided at the time, Again, it was a
(06:09):
bad decision. It is not an admission of fields by
any way. I was bullied into not thinking straight. I
removed those images. I have in the meantime restored the images.
If people know how to get to the Internet archives,
(06:30):
I'm sure a lot of people will know what I'm
talking about. They can see the images again. As they
pull up pages that contained the images from before the raid,
they can see the images. And I am in the
process of restoring the HTML code also that contained these images,
so they will soon be back on my website.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Let's talk about what it might have been. I'm sorry,
go ahead.
Speaker 4 (06:55):
I have nothing to hide, and this was a bad decision,
no admission of guild. And you know, if I did
something wrong, it wasn't in those images, and I don't
know what it is. And I want I want to
be fully transparent. I want people to see. Okay, here's
(07:19):
the search warrant. Here is exactly what I have. Here
is what I know. This is my communication or lax
eraor with the FBI. So I started the website Area
fifty fifty one FBI rate dot com again Area fifty
one FBI rate dot com, and I published everything I
(07:39):
have about the case on that website. The search warrants
are there photos of the damage, They cause. Is there
the lies that they told us communication with various representatives
in Congress that we ask for help. It's all on
that website and we also have a link to a
(08:02):
go fundly page on that website. I would like to
take this opportunity to think from the bottom of our hearts,
thanks those people that helped us out with a go
Fundily page. We have recovered more than half of the damages,
more than half of the thirty three thousand dollars that
(08:23):
we haven't damages, and we are very very grateful for
the people that helped out with financial support and also
emotional support in this difficult time after the race.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
We ask you about the agencies involved. You mentioned FBI
a bunch of times, but there's somebody else that's involved.
That's OSI Office of you know, the Office of Specional
Investigations for the Air Force. What were they sort of
the impetus you think for this thing that they got
the FBI to be the muscle for this operation. Were
they leading the interrogation or could you tell that is
(08:58):
what it.
Speaker 4 (08:58):
Looks like to me. The OSI doesn't have jurisdiction over
American civilians, so they needed the FBI to be the muscle.
Like you said, it came from the OSI, there's no
doubt about it. And the two agents that were interrogating me,
one of them, like I said, was an OLSI agent,
(09:19):
and he seemed to be the one much more interested
in interrogating me and in getting information out of it.
So the way I understand the situation at this point
is that somebody way up in the food chain of
the air Force stumbled upon my website or about some
(09:40):
content on my website and had a fit. And when
somebody way up in the food chain has a fit,
that is not good. So people under him got a
federal judge to sign off on the search warrant to
silence me, to shut down my website. And this comes
(10:02):
from one I toldly believe this comes from one individual,
or from a very small group of individuals high up
in the US air for food chain. And they better
hope that I better not ever find out who they are.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
You know, not to let the FBI off the hook.
But I think I've told you this in person. I've
worked with the FBI on pretty big stories over the years.
I still like to think of them as the good
guys in this not necessarily in this but in general,
after you and I talked the last time, I reached
out to some federal law enforcement people that I knew
and described the situation. They said, look, we don't make
(10:40):
this stuff up. We don't go on vendettas in general,
and if a federal magistrates signed off on it, there
must be something that was able to use to convince
that judge that this was worth pursuing that the search
warrant was in fact warranted. So I guess the concern
is what could be You know, you're usually pretty careful
(11:03):
about the content. Here's one of the thing that came
to my mind. You tell me what you think about it.
Is so there was a guy who a couple of
years ago flew over Area fifty one with permission. I
don't I know he had permission to fly over it.
I don't know if he had permission to shoot video.
But he recorded a whole bunch of images, and he
gives a lot of them to me at KLAS. We
(11:24):
put him on the air and put them on a website.
And I guess maybe he gave more of them to you.
Have you thought that maybe something in that was what
set them off.
Speaker 4 (11:36):
I don't think that is what set them off that
might have contributed to it, like a million other things
as well, the images that we took from Tikaboo and
all that. I don't want to comment on that too much.
I do not think that what he did. I know
that what he did was not illegal. I don't think
(11:57):
that it has any that is should give any one
reason for alarm. I think this was more of a
bullying tactic that was targeted against me. What may and
here I'm really speculating what may or may not be
a factor in this whole thing is. Shortly after this happened,
(12:22):
I was contacted by someone who claims to have flown
a drone into the airspace of Area fifty one to
propose lake and to have taken pictures there. This was
like within two or three days after the raid, and
he said something along the lines I'm sorry you got
(12:45):
in trouble. I am probably the reason, and this is
what I did, kind of bragging about it, and you know,
I thought I must to myself. A consumer drone can't
do that. So either this guy has a very sophisticated
drawn or he's just talking. So I didn't take any chances.
(13:06):
I wanted to be a good citizen still after the raid.
After all they did to me, and I forwarded it
that emails straight to the FBI. I have never heard
anything about it. I the FBI didn't even acknowledge the receipt.
I did what I had to do. I don't know
if the guy was so real. If he was, then
of course that would have really been a big reason
(13:28):
for concern, and they might have thought, hey, this guy
and Rachel has a drawn maybe that was him, and
you know, maybe it was just a case of mistaken identity.
Who knows. I have never had contact with that guy. Again,
I have never seen the pictures. I don't know if
they exist, and I know nothing, and I don't want
to know anything about what he did.
Speaker 2 (13:49):
I mean, you've said it before that you know, you
can get better images of the base and whatever's going
on out there from Google Earth or other kinds of platforms.
There's a lot of stuff out there, you know, a
lot of eyes are on every fifty one. People are
curious about it, in part because the secrecy is so
off the charts, you know, it's it's can be a
little excessive at times. People are naturally going to be
(14:09):
curious about that aren't they.
Speaker 4 (14:11):
Yeah, they are. And you know you can buy satellite images.
You can contact the satellite operator and you can tell them, hey,
this is a rect angle, I want image an image
of that rectangle. Give them the coordinates and they take
you an act an image from today and they provided
to you within a couple of days. It costs a
(14:33):
couple thousand bucks, twenty five hundred bucks something like that,
and you get a very current photo of Area fifty
one in thirty three centimeter in about one foot detail
one square foot detail. It's it's really Area fifty one
has been always so good at keeping things under wraps
(14:57):
that what they don't want you to see you on
the going to see they have all these hangars and
they're building a new big hangar every two years. Every
two years there's a new hangart area of jewelry. And
that's all they need. They put the good stuff in there,
and they fly it at night. I mean when you
know in Rachel will hear stuff flying at night all
(15:19):
the time, but who's to tell what it is. And
during the daytime it looks like any other military base
and you can look at it all day long. I
could hike up to the hills. If I still could
right around area fifty one, like Freedom Ridge that was
accessible up until nineteen ninety five, and I could look
at it and I would probably not see anything that
(15:41):
is of any concern. They have the security down so
well and they have all the infrastructure for it that
nothing is exposed that shouldn't be exposed.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Makes you wonder if there was some wide panorama that
somebody talk at somewhere there's one tiny glimpse a part
of something that set them off that wasn't supposed to
be seen because somebody made a mistake.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Well, if that's the case, then they would have been
much better off to let me know in private, Hey, look,
take this image down. I would have taken it down,
nobody would have known anything about it, and it would
have been gone. But by making it a big deal.
If that's the case, then yeah, it's going to be
very soon. It's going to be back on my website.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
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