September 4, 2024 • 18 mins
George Noory and author Joel Garbon discuss his search for the origins of the human race, why he is one of very few scientists who believes in God, and if the little known Book of Urantia could hold the answers about life beyond planet Earth.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
And welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori with
your Joel Garvin with US Industrial Science consultant educator. It's
been the inventor of several commercially successful technologies that have
contributed valuable advances to the chemical, pulp and paper, water treatment,
and infrastructure industries. He has worked with the young adults,
(00:25):
getting them, of course, to teach them the wisdom of
the You ranch your book in the Bible as well.
His websites are linked up at Coast TOCOASTAM dot com. Joel.
Eight years have you been?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Oh? Hi George. It's great to be back on coast
with you, you know, And I had no idea that our
friend Richard Dolan was going to set up our conversation
so well.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
He did a great job. You guys have known each
other for years, haven't you.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Yes, yes, we have, and we've even had a few opportunities,
including on the Oregon coast, to have some deep discussions
about tonight's topic.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
What have you been up to over the last eight years?
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Well, George, you know, like you, I'm a grandfather. Well,
I think you're also a great.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Grandfather three times.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yeah, that's amazing. Well, something happened. I think when I
became a grandfather. You know, being a parent and all
the busyness of work and trying to like figure it
out and get things going for the family tends to
distract you a bit. But I think becoming a grandfather
made me observe a little bit more about what's going
(01:38):
on in our world and how it's influencing people in general,
but more specifically the young ones. And I am absolutely
convinced that our little planet is in the midst of
a spiritual crisis. It might be better termed a spiritual battle,
but it's taking a great toll on our youth and
(02:00):
our young adults. I see it in my own family.
I observe it in the family of friends and others,
and you know, just everywhere you look, it seems like,
you know, these these young people are having unprecedented rates
of depression, anxiety, a feeling hopeless, a feeling like they
(02:20):
have no meaning and purpose in their lives. And it's
just happening at such a startling rate that something really
big is going on and I want to help fix that.
And you know, I term this problem the God sized
hole in the heart of these young people. So I've
(02:44):
been collaborating with a group of elders from several countries,
each of whom recognize that we have this spiritual crisis,
but also who recognize that there are some some very
interesting teachings from extraterrestrials who've been visiting this planet that
(03:09):
had to deal with human history in great detail, and
that also has some profound things to say about religion
and the cosmic understandings of true religion and insights on
how that can be brought to bear on the spiritual
problem on little planet Earth.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Good for you, So how did you get involved in all.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Of this, Joel, Well, you know, I had for many
years I had been educating about breakthrough energy technologies, and
how I came around to that actually was part of
what solidified my faith in God. You know, the whole
(03:53):
topic of ETS to begin with, became of interest to
me when I was not quite a teenager back in
the early seventies. I grew up on a little apple
farm outside of Cincinnati, and one evening we were just
having a barbecue, you know, out back of the farmhouse,
(04:14):
and we saw this very unusual three colored set of
lights that were just hanging in the sky, very unusual.
And then after about twenty minutes, those three colored lights
they each separated and then they shot off in different directions.
(04:35):
And it really made an impact on me because you know,
I've always be koind of one of those you know,
science kids. I pay attention. You know, my brother was
the kid who had the telescope. I was the kid
that had the microscope, and so we were always exploring outside.
You know, we paid a lot of attention. So it
turned out that in the early seventies, at that same time,
(04:57):
there was a real UFO flap happened in the Ohio
Valley where we lived, and it was even being reported
on the front page of the local newspapers. So a
lot of people were having sightings at that time. So
that was the first incident. The next incident happened in
November of two thousand, when I had caught wind of
(05:22):
there being some UFO sidings reported at a ranch not
too far, maybe about ninety minutes from where I lived
up in the little town of Trout Lake, Washington, and
very close to Mount Adams, which is one of the
large mountains in the Cascade Mountain Range. So I called
(05:44):
the owner of that ranch. His name is James gill
Alind and that name may ring a bell because I
imagine a number.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
We know him, that's right.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Yeah, yeah. So I got him on the phone and
he said, yeah, we've been having some activity up here,
and a couple of film crews had just left, and
he said, why don't you just come on up and
just take a look for yourself, see what you think.
So I went up there with five of my very
close friends. This is November at two thousand. It was
(06:16):
the weekend before Thanksgiving. And we get up there and
there's snow on the ground and it's lightly snowing. And
when we were all bundled, knowing that we were going
to sit outside and do what he was calling a SkyWatch, well,
you know, the weather was just socked in, and you know,
as we're sitting there, gradually this this perfect circular hole
(06:41):
started to open up in the clouds right above us,
and it grew and it grew in this perfect circle,
and then there were these stars, the first stars we
could see in that opening. And my buddy Mike he
elbows me goes, he goes, oh my gosh, those are
the Kle eighties, and I thought, well, okay, I didn't
(07:02):
quite really know what to make of that. But then
another friend of mine starts snapping photos around our group
and around this SkyWatch field, and and those photos revealed
that there were these bell shaped objects. I would say,
if you were to make a circle with your outstretched arms.
(07:23):
They were about that size, one of them hovering just
a few feet above the heads of our group. A
couple more of them photoed out in the field. And
then also these these shafts of just brilliant emerald lights
that were also out in this field. So those those photos,
(07:46):
you know, we gave them to James Golin. He posted
them on his website. He reported that that he started
to immediately get lots of activity on his website from
different institutions, including a military related companies who were contractors
to the military, different research universities. And that was at
(08:10):
the time when you could see who was who was,
you know, perusing your website. And then James started to
include these photos in the presentations that he was giving
it to various conference and things. So that that was
that was incident number two. And then the third one
actually happened two years later at that same ranch, which
(08:33):
you know is now called the East Seti Ranch. So
I was up there. It was a very very dark night.
I was sitting on this wooden platform out in the
SkyWatch field, and there were probably four or five other
men there. We could barely even see each other. It
was a new moon, pitch black, and this, this large
(08:54):
white sphere comes in from the left in front of us,
and we're looking toward Adams, which was about eleven miles away.
And just to give a perspective of the size of
this object, if you were to hold out your thumb
in front of you and you're just looking at your
thumb and you made a circle out of the top
part of your thumb, that's how large disappeared in perspective. Now,
(09:17):
we don't know how far it was, because you know,
it's between us and the mountain, which was eleven miles away,
but it certainly appeared quite large. Well, this bright white
sphere stops right in front of us, and then it
starts to change colors, and then it starts to change shapes,
and it goes through a sequence of the platonic solids,
(09:40):
goes back to a white sphere, and then it just
shoots off and disappears, and that startled each of these
men who were there next to me, and everyone was
just like, oh my god, did you see that? Did
you see that? And it happened also that there were
two films crew's there, one from Mexico and one from
(10:02):
a public broadcasting station. And one of the guys said,
I forget which when he said we got that on film. Now.
I did not have the presence of mine to check
in with him the next morning, because again this probably
two in the morning or so, but it really made
an impact on me. And I think that that combined
(10:26):
with a long, long interest in what the reality is
about our universe, and I would say the big questions.
I've always been hungry for answers to the big questions.
You know. Those would include what are the origins, history,
and destiny of the universe of our planet.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
You've questioned the BANG theory.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Right, absolutely, so, I would say this, George, I question
pretty much everything. I'm a data driven scientist. I don't
adhere to dogmas, but yet when I see something that
really has some compelling data or compelling testimony or some
(11:13):
other type of evidence, then I'm like, Okay, I'm willing
to change my mind, you know, and I'm willing to
follow threads and go deep down the rabbit hole. And
I certainly have done that when it comes to the
UFO ET topic, especially as it pertains to religion and spirituality,
and I think it has a particular bearing on this
(11:36):
spiritual crisis that we're having on our planet right now
and how it's impacting the youth and young adults. And
I think that we can tie in what we can
learn from the messages that the ets are providing us
and help to resolve this issue. And I would say
(11:56):
that the most shining example I've been able to come
up cross is the information and wisdom that's contained in
a relatively obscure book called the Urantia Book.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
And you've done a great job analyzing that book.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Well, it's been a twenty year study for me, But
I'm a neophyte compared to some of the elders who
are connected with from various countries here recently, some of
whom have been studying it for forty years. And now,
these are not kooky people. These are very high intellect individuals,
(12:36):
many of them with advanced university degrees, most of them
are taking taken the religion they were brought up and
very seriously. Generally they are all God believing people. I
would say most of them are Christians, but there are
other religions represented as well. So it has been quite
(12:59):
a serious study. And I say I follow this because
it is so dagone important that we get to the
bottom of this and come up with some answers.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Explain to those who do not know what that book is, Joel,
what the uential book is?
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Okay, well, great questions. So I mentioned that, Hey, you know,
there's some really really big questions, you know, like the origins,
history and destiny of the universe, of our planet, of
humanity itself. You know, who is God or what is God?
You know, what's really the nature of reality? And such?
(13:38):
Including even something like okay, you know, here, here's this
extraordinary being who lived two thousand years on this planet
called Jesus. What's he all about? And I would say
that when we look at conventional science and religion, the
answer is that they provide to these big questions. Generally,
(14:01):
are do not adequately satisfy my questions here, cause I
found them essentially incomplete, inconsistent, or incoherent or all three.
But what I find remarkably about the Ranier book is
it addresses these big questions in a beautifully intelligent and
(14:22):
an articulated way that makes sense. George. It is a
two thousand page book, covers an enormously broad and comprehensive
range of topics. It has tremendous internal consistency, and I
have a keen editing eye for where there are inaccuracies
(14:44):
or inconsistencies and logic even in grammar. I just have
a he an innate knack for picking out inconsistencies. It's
also very coherent, and so it blends topics on science, lust, being,
religion together in a way that just goes beyond any
type of purely human prose that I've ever come across.
(15:08):
And I've read an awful lot of books in my day,
and this is this is just unmatched.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Now, I was written in Chicago. Has anybody taken credit
for writing it?
Speaker 3 (15:20):
It has never. It has never had any claim of
human authorship. And that even was tested in a court
case where there was a challenge to the copyright of
the book because some individuals wanted to kind of take
extracts from the two thousand page book and publish it
(15:41):
as a separate Life and Teachings of Jesus. And so
there became this this copyright court case about that, and
came out in court was that there is no provable
human authorship of this. In the claim that the book
makes is that it was transmitting it. It's by a
(16:02):
commission of celestial personalities of various orders from various planets,
and and so it was extraordinary to see that, you know,
even in court. Uh, basically that the copyright dispute was
shown that there is no copyright because you have to
have human authorship, they have a copyright claim. So so
(16:26):
basically the court said, okay, yeah, it's uh, it's extraterrestrial
origin as the authorship. Pretty pretty startling, but that's what
that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
You're one of the few scientists, Joel, that believes in God.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Right, Well, I would say this, George, any scientist who
claims to believe in God finds themselves in some really
good company. Because what you'll find if you look at
the history of science, that that there is a long
list of famous scientists who had a strong belief in God,
(17:06):
and in fact, most of them were Christians. And you
know just if you listened to a few of the
names here, Gregor Mendel, who was the father of modern genetics.
Isaac Newton, you know, who formulated the laws of motion
and gravitation, and he invented calculus. You got Kepler, Galileo Copernicus,
Lord Telvin, you got Maxwell and Faraday and Louis Pasteur,
(17:29):
Boyle and Dalton and JJ Thompson, and you know, collectively
those scientists who are done. I'm just naming a few. Collectively,
they made fundamental discoveries in physics, chemistry, electromagnetism, astronomy, microbiology,
quantum mechanics, thermodynamics, and genetics. And even in the Nobel
(17:52):
laureates between the years nineteen hundred and two thousand, fifty
six percent of those Nobel laureates and sciences fields were Christians,
and most of them claiming that it was their faith
that informed them about their scientific inquiry, and they felt
bound to explore the natural laws that God had created
(18:18):
and for men to discover. So pretty interesting.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at
one a m Eastern and go to Coast to coastam
dot com for more
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
And welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori with
your Joel Garvin with US Industrial Science consultant educator. It's
been the inventor of several commercially successful technologies that have
contributed valuable advances to the chemical, pulp and paper, water treatment,
and infrastructure industries. He has worked with the young adults,
(00:25):
getting them, of course, to teach them the wisdom of
the You ranch your book in the Bible as well.
His websites are linked up at Coast TOCOASTAM dot com. Joel.
Eight years have you been?
Speaker 3 (00:39):
Oh? Hi George. It's great to be back on coast
with you, you know, And I had no idea that our
friend Richard Dolan was going to set up our conversation
so well.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
He did a great job. You guys have known each
other for years, haven't you.
Speaker 4 (00:52):
Yes, yes, we have, and we've even had a few opportunities,
including on the Oregon coast, to have some deep discussions
about tonight's topic.
Speaker 2 (01:04):
What have you been up to over the last eight years?
Speaker 3 (01:08):
Well, George, you know, like you, I'm a grandfather. Well,
I think you're also a great.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Grandfather three times.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
Yeah, that's amazing. Well, something happened. I think when I
became a grandfather. You know, being a parent and all
the busyness of work and trying to like figure it
out and get things going for the family tends to
distract you a bit. But I think becoming a grandfather
made me observe a little bit more about what's going
(01:38):
on in our world and how it's influencing people in general,
but more specifically the young ones. And I am absolutely
convinced that our little planet is in the midst of
a spiritual crisis. It might be better termed a spiritual battle,
but it's taking a great toll on our youth and
(02:00):
our young adults. I see it in my own family.
I observe it in the family of friends and others,
and you know, just everywhere you look, it seems like,
you know, these these young people are having unprecedented rates
of depression, anxiety, a feeling hopeless, a feeling like they
(02:20):
have no meaning and purpose in their lives. And it's
just happening at such a startling rate that something really
big is going on and I want to help fix that.
And you know, I term this problem the God sized
hole in the heart of these young people. So I've
(02:44):
been collaborating with a group of elders from several countries,
each of whom recognize that we have this spiritual crisis,
but also who recognize that there are some some very
interesting teachings from extraterrestrials who've been visiting this planet that
(03:09):
had to deal with human history in great detail, and
that also has some profound things to say about religion
and the cosmic understandings of true religion and insights on
how that can be brought to bear on the spiritual
problem on little planet Earth.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Good for you, So how did you get involved in all.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
Of this, Joel, Well, you know, I had for many
years I had been educating about breakthrough energy technologies, and
how I came around to that actually was part of
what solidified my faith in God. You know, the whole
(03:53):
topic of ETS to begin with, became of interest to
me when I was not quite a teenager back in
the early seventies. I grew up on a little apple
farm outside of Cincinnati, and one evening we were just
having a barbecue, you know, out back of the farmhouse,
(04:14):
and we saw this very unusual three colored set of
lights that were just hanging in the sky, very unusual.
And then after about twenty minutes, those three colored lights
they each separated and then they shot off in different directions.
(04:35):
And it really made an impact on me because you know,
I've always be koind of one of those you know,
science kids. I pay attention. You know, my brother was
the kid who had the telescope. I was the kid
that had the microscope, and so we were always exploring outside.
You know, we paid a lot of attention. So it
turned out that in the early seventies, at that same time,
(04:57):
there was a real UFO flap happened in the Ohio
Valley where we lived, and it was even being reported
on the front page of the local newspapers. So a
lot of people were having sightings at that time. So
that was the first incident. The next incident happened in
November of two thousand, when I had caught wind of
(05:22):
there being some UFO sidings reported at a ranch not
too far, maybe about ninety minutes from where I lived
up in the little town of Trout Lake, Washington, and
very close to Mount Adams, which is one of the
large mountains in the Cascade Mountain Range. So I called
(05:44):
the owner of that ranch. His name is James gill
Alind and that name may ring a bell because I
imagine a number.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
We know him, that's right.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Yeah, yeah. So I got him on the phone and
he said, yeah, we've been having some activity up here,
and a couple of film crews had just left, and
he said, why don't you just come on up and
just take a look for yourself, see what you think.
So I went up there with five of my very
close friends. This is November at two thousand. It was
(06:16):
the weekend before Thanksgiving. And we get up there and
there's snow on the ground and it's lightly snowing. And
when we were all bundled, knowing that we were going
to sit outside and do what he was calling a SkyWatch, well,
you know, the weather was just socked in, and you know,
as we're sitting there, gradually this this perfect circular hole
(06:41):
started to open up in the clouds right above us,
and it grew and it grew in this perfect circle,
and then there were these stars, the first stars we
could see in that opening. And my buddy Mike he
elbows me goes, he goes, oh my gosh, those are
the Kle eighties, and I thought, well, okay, I didn't
(07:02):
quite really know what to make of that. But then
another friend of mine starts snapping photos around our group
and around this SkyWatch field, and and those photos revealed
that there were these bell shaped objects. I would say,
if you were to make a circle with your outstretched arms.
(07:23):
They were about that size, one of them hovering just
a few feet above the heads of our group. A
couple more of them photoed out in the field. And
then also these these shafts of just brilliant emerald lights
that were also out in this field. So those those photos,
(07:46):
you know, we gave them to James Golin. He posted
them on his website. He reported that that he started
to immediately get lots of activity on his website from
different institutions, including a military related companies who were contractors
to the military, different research universities. And that was at
(08:10):
the time when you could see who was who was,
you know, perusing your website. And then James started to
include these photos in the presentations that he was giving
it to various conference and things. So that that was
that was incident number two. And then the third one
actually happened two years later at that same ranch, which
(08:33):
you know is now called the East Seti Ranch. So
I was up there. It was a very very dark night.
I was sitting on this wooden platform out in the
SkyWatch field, and there were probably four or five other
men there. We could barely even see each other. It
was a new moon, pitch black, and this, this large
(08:54):
white sphere comes in from the left in front of us,
and we're looking toward Adams, which was about eleven miles away.
And just to give a perspective of the size of
this object, if you were to hold out your thumb
in front of you and you're just looking at your
thumb and you made a circle out of the top
part of your thumb, that's how large disappeared in perspective. Now,
(09:17):
we don't know how far it was, because you know,
it's between us and the mountain, which was eleven miles away,
but it certainly appeared quite large. Well, this bright white
sphere stops right in front of us, and then it
starts to change colors, and then it starts to change shapes,
and it goes through a sequence of the platonic solids,
(09:40):
goes back to a white sphere, and then it just
shoots off and disappears, and that startled each of these
men who were there next to me, and everyone was
just like, oh my god, did you see that? Did
you see that? And it happened also that there were
two films crew's there, one from Mexico and one from
(10:02):
a public broadcasting station. And one of the guys said,
I forget which when he said we got that on film. Now.
I did not have the presence of mine to check
in with him the next morning, because again this probably
two in the morning or so, but it really made
an impact on me. And I think that that combined
(10:26):
with a long, long interest in what the reality is
about our universe, and I would say the big questions.
I've always been hungry for answers to the big questions.
You know. Those would include what are the origins, history,
and destiny of the universe of our planet.
Speaker 2 (10:47):
You've questioned the BANG theory.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Right, absolutely, so, I would say this, George, I question
pretty much everything. I'm a data driven scientist. I don't
adhere to dogmas, but yet when I see something that
really has some compelling data or compelling testimony or some
(11:13):
other type of evidence, then I'm like, Okay, I'm willing
to change my mind, you know, and I'm willing to
follow threads and go deep down the rabbit hole. And
I certainly have done that when it comes to the
UFO ET topic, especially as it pertains to religion and spirituality,
and I think it has a particular bearing on this
(11:36):
spiritual crisis that we're having on our planet right now
and how it's impacting the youth and young adults. And
I think that we can tie in what we can
learn from the messages that the ets are providing us
and help to resolve this issue. And I would say
(11:56):
that the most shining example I've been able to come
up cross is the information and wisdom that's contained in
a relatively obscure book called the Urantia Book.
Speaker 2 (12:09):
And you've done a great job analyzing that book.
Speaker 3 (12:14):
Well, it's been a twenty year study for me, But
I'm a neophyte compared to some of the elders who
are connected with from various countries here recently, some of
whom have been studying it for forty years. And now,
these are not kooky people. These are very high intellect individuals,
(12:36):
many of them with advanced university degrees, most of them
are taking taken the religion they were brought up and
very seriously. Generally they are all God believing people. I
would say most of them are Christians, but there are
other religions represented as well. So it has been quite
(12:59):
a serious study. And I say I follow this because
it is so dagone important that we get to the
bottom of this and come up with some answers.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Explain to those who do not know what that book is, Joel,
what the uential book is?
Speaker 3 (13:17):
Okay, well, great questions. So I mentioned that, Hey, you know,
there's some really really big questions, you know, like the origins,
history and destiny of the universe, of our planet, of
humanity itself. You know, who is God or what is God?
You know, what's really the nature of reality? And such?
(13:38):
Including even something like okay, you know, here, here's this
extraordinary being who lived two thousand years on this planet
called Jesus. What's he all about? And I would say
that when we look at conventional science and religion, the
answer is that they provide to these big questions. Generally,
(14:01):
are do not adequately satisfy my questions here, cause I
found them essentially incomplete, inconsistent, or incoherent or all three.
But what I find remarkably about the Ranier book is
it addresses these big questions in a beautifully intelligent and
(14:22):
an articulated way that makes sense. George. It is a
two thousand page book, covers an enormously broad and comprehensive
range of topics. It has tremendous internal consistency, and I
have a keen editing eye for where there are inaccuracies
(14:44):
or inconsistencies and logic even in grammar. I just have
a he an innate knack for picking out inconsistencies. It's
also very coherent, and so it blends topics on science, lust, being,
religion together in a way that just goes beyond any
type of purely human prose that I've ever come across.
(15:08):
And I've read an awful lot of books in my day,
and this is this is just unmatched.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
Now, I was written in Chicago. Has anybody taken credit
for writing it?
Speaker 3 (15:20):
It has never. It has never had any claim of
human authorship. And that even was tested in a court
case where there was a challenge to the copyright of
the book because some individuals wanted to kind of take
extracts from the two thousand page book and publish it
(15:41):
as a separate Life and Teachings of Jesus. And so
there became this this copyright court case about that, and
came out in court was that there is no provable
human authorship of this. In the claim that the book
makes is that it was transmitting it. It's by a
(16:02):
commission of celestial personalities of various orders from various planets,
and and so it was extraordinary to see that, you know,
even in court. Uh, basically that the copyright dispute was
shown that there is no copyright because you have to
have human authorship, they have a copyright claim. So so
(16:26):
basically the court said, okay, yeah, it's uh, it's extraterrestrial
origin as the authorship. Pretty pretty startling, but that's what
that's what it is.
Speaker 2 (16:39):
You're one of the few scientists, Joel, that believes in God.
Speaker 3 (16:43):
Right, Well, I would say this, George, any scientist who
claims to believe in God finds themselves in some really
good company. Because what you'll find if you look at
the history of science, that that there is a long
list of famous scientists who had a strong belief in God,
(17:06):
and in fact, most of them were Christians. And you
know just if you listened to a few of the
names here, Gregor Mendel, who was the father of modern genetics.
Isaac Newton, you know, who formulated the laws of motion
and gravitation, and he invented calculus. You got Kepler, Galileo Copernicus,
Lord Telvin, you got Maxwell and Faraday and Louis Pasteur,
(17:29):
Boyle and Dalton and JJ Thompson, and you know, collectively
those scientists who are done. I'm just naming a few. Collectively,
they made fundamental discoveries in physics, chemistry, electromagnetism, astronomy, microbiology,
quantum mechanics, thermodynamics, and genetics. And even in the Nobel
(17:52):
laureates between the years nineteen hundred and two thousand, fifty
six percent of those Nobel laureates and sciences fields were Christians,
and most of them claiming that it was their faith
that informed them about their scientific inquiry, and they felt
bound to explore the natural laws that God had created
(18:18):
and for men to discover. So pretty interesting.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
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