May 2, 2024 • 18 mins
George Noory and clinical psychologist Matthew McKay explore the messages he receives from the spirit of his murdered son, how channeling his son's spirit has given him a sense of peace, and the lessons he has learned that have changed his understanding of death.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
And welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori with you.
Matthew McKay is a clinical psychologist, a professor of psychology
at the Right Institute, co founder of the Hay Cashburry
Psychological Services, founder of the Berkeley CBT Clinic, and co
founder of the Bay Area Trauma Recovery Clinic, which serves
(00:25):
low income clients. He has authored and co authored a
number of books forty plus including the Relaxation and Stress
Reduction work Book, and is the most recent one, Lessons
from the Afterlife. Matthew, welcome back.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
How have you been been good. It's great to speak
with you again, George.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Last time we were on about three years ago, we
were talking about your work, The Luminous Landscape of the Afterlife.
I had a great time with you.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
That's right. We were talking about that and Jordan pretty
much wrote that book and in it he was describing,
you know, the spirit world in detail and what do
expect and how to prepare for the transition. But now
he has something new he wants to really take a
look at, you know, to explain the purpose of the
(01:15):
physical universe. You know, these planets, we live on it,
why we come here? So's he's got a whole new
thing that he wants to share with people.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Explain to our new listeners, Matthew, who Jordan is?
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yeah, thank you? So Jordan is my son. Fifteen years ago,
he was bicycling home from work. He was attacked on
the street. Four men attacked him, probably to try to
steal his bicycle. There's a tremendous physical fight that ensued.
(01:50):
Eventually he turned and moved away from them. They shot
him in the black. He died on the street. And
what happened, of course, to me, is what happens to
anyone who loses someone they loved deeply. I had this
tremendous need to know did Jordans still exist, and if so,
(02:14):
was the okay? And and that set me on this
journey to find him, and began with, you know, going
to mediums and learning what they could they could tell me.
Although that was uncomfortable and it felt like I wasn't
I wasn't part of a conversation. I was just hearing
from him through them, uh, And so I thought him
(02:38):
in other ways. I went to see doctor Alan Botkin
in Chicago, who had discovered something called induced after death communication,
which is a variant of E M d R. I
had moved into sensitization processing, which I used with my clients.
I'm a psychologist, I worked with trauma and I use
em DR, and so he had had accidentally fallen into
(03:02):
a small variant of the protocol. I went to Chicago.
I experienced induced after death communication, and for the first
time that Jordan's of death, I heard his voice. He
was there, he was in the room, and he was
telling me the things that I deeply needed to know.
He's with you, I love you, I'm watching over you,
(03:27):
and I'm good. I'm in a good place. I'm safe
and happy. Well, that made a big difference for me.
I felt some of the grief lifting, but I still
had this tremendous need to have a conversation, not just
a one way experience, but to have a conversation, to
be able to ask him questions, to be able to
(03:47):
explore things with him. And so I consulted the late
Ralph Messner, who was a specialist in the afterlife. He
taught me how to do channel communication, and that is
what opened the door for me finally to be able
to talk to Jordan, and I've had hundreds of conversations
with him through channel communications that have you know, been
(04:11):
profound and meant so much to me. The things he answered,
so many questions, He's blown my mind. He's described things
that I had no about, knowledge of, or never prepared
to be able to understand until these communications. So it's
been an extraordinary journey with him. And this latest book
(04:33):
is his attempt to explain why we have the physical uners,
why are we here, what are we doing here, what's
this all about? And so it's made a real impact
on me. The other thing also that he's wanting to
do is teach something called deep knowledge meditation, and so
people can connect to their own soul knowledge, their higher self,
(04:57):
their accumulated soul wisdom, and this meant will allow them
to actually connect to that. It's part of our energy,
our soul energy always lives in the afterlife. And even
though we come here and part of our solergy energy
energy these bodies and we have amnesia and we can't
(05:17):
remember of our past lives or any of the experiences
in the afterlife, the part of this is always there
in the afterlife. And we can communicate to that part
that has full awareness and memory of all of our
past lives, all of what we've learned in the spirit world,
and so it's possible to use this communication to actually
connect to the part of us that remembers everything.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Matthew, when you first made the contact with Jordan, how
did you react.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Well? The experience of the IADC induced after death communication
with Bocket was I was flabbergasted. I was overwhelmed to
hear his voice and to hear the things that he
said to me. When I learned how to do channel communication,
it was profoundly moving to me because he was saying things.
(06:09):
I could feel his love, I could feel him in
my body, and I could see and he was saying
things that I had never imagined before. And we're not
just enlightening but mind blowing, and so that those early
experiences were full of emotion, full of love, and full
(06:32):
of discovery for me.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Did it calm you down?
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Yes? Because what I learned was that Jordan was just
a thought away. I hadn't lost him. Death doesn't and
the love and the relationship that we have, In fact,
the love and the relationship was as strong as ever
and I could make contact with him anytime I wanted to,
(07:04):
and so it changed my whole understanding of death. And
what it did is it recreated or re established my
relationship with him, and it continues all these fifteen years.
We talk at least once a week we have, and
(07:25):
those conversations can be varied. He can advise me and
guide me, but also he can tell me amazing things
about the universe and our role within it. So it's
been an experience that has changed my understanding of what
death is and what relationship and love is in the
(07:48):
face of death.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Who initiates the initial contact, Matthew, Jordan or you.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Well, typically I will establish contact with him. I sit
at a desk that's familiar and feels safe, and there's
a little ritual I go through. I could describe that
if anybody's interested, because it's pretty easy to channel. Almost
anybody can channel, and I've caught taught hundreds of people
(08:16):
to do it. So I can initiate the contact with
a small ritual. But it's not uncommon for Jordan to
start a conversation with me spontaneously, and oftentimes he will
start talking to me when I'm about to do something
really stupid. And he will speak and say what don't
do that, or wait a minute, or do this instead,
(08:38):
and so often as he will initiate, but you'll initiate
when I'm involved in something that that's you know, kind
of heading in the wrong direction.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
What does your wife Jude think of your contact.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Well, she's very grateful for it. I read to her
all of the things that he says, all of the
communications that come from him. She makes contact with him
in a different way. She feels his presence in a
different way. She feels it in her body. She feels
she has an awareness of him, and he communicates to
(09:16):
her telepathy, but not in this channel communication process. So
she's grateful for it, but she has her own path
to him.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Explain what the deep knowledge meditation is and how can
people access that?
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Okay, so it's actually fairly simple. What it starts with
a question. You want to ask a question and just
begin with you know. And the question could be anything
you know, like, you know, should I you know, should
I invest in some kind of new enterprise or not?
(09:53):
Or the question could be you know, what's the nature
of the divine? What's you know? What is God? In
other words, you could go from the sublime to the
very simple and earth bound. Any question you want to ask,
you can ask your higher self, the part of your
soul that's always in the spirit world. So what you
do is you begin by bringing your attention down to
(10:17):
your diaphragm, to your breath, the center of your life,
and just bring all of your attention to that part
of your body. And as you observe your breath, you
simply note it and the in breath you save yourself
in on the out breath, you say out, and you
just note the end and the out of your breath.
Just continue to watch your breath, and when thoughts show up,
(10:39):
notice the thought as soon as you can, and then
bring your attention back to your breath. Thoughts always do
show up, that's okay, But as soon as they do,
as soon as you notice it, bring your attention back
to the breath. Now, after a little while, you'll find
your mind starting to slow down, and you're going to
find that there's a kind of a quietness and and
(11:02):
and an openness that you begin to feel. And that's
where the channel can open to your higher self, to
your to your soul. It's always in the spirit world.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Matthew, where would you Where would you say, Jordan's is
Where is his soul? Where is his consciousness? Where is he?
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Well, his consciousness is typically in the spirit world, although
it could move around in the spirit world, and his
consciousness can come to Earth and he can he can
move his consciousness to Earth at any time. In fact,
he can move his consciousness any planet uh in in
the universe uh and observe it. So the consciousness of
(11:45):
souls can move instantly kind of wherever they directed. So
he can be his consciousness can be in the spirit
world and he can be involved with his soul group. There,
he get involved in learning and can be reviewing the
caution record. He can be learning some of his spiritual
(12:07):
career work, which has a lot to do with guidance
and guiding. But he can also bring his awareness right
here right and he's in fact is right here right
now with me, helping me with this.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Interview, giving your points right.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
He does. He gives me part and also he helps
you with my clients. There are times when I'm at
a loss and I'm not sure really what to do
or where to go with a client. I'll ask him
and he'll have something to say, which is almost universally helpful.
So he can be present. His consciousness can come to
me at anytime. I can ask for it, and I
(12:47):
can open the door by just simply thinking of him.
I can ask him a question, his consciousness will come
to me. So consciousness, once we leave our bodies, is
very fluid, and it can move around instantly simply by
the intention to go somewhere. We don't have to rely
on legs and you know, the the effort of muscles
(13:13):
to do any movement. Consciousness moves simply by intention. Consciousnessays
I want to go here, and it's there. It's their
instant And that's how Jordan can show up here.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
What does he think of God? Does that subject ever
come up?
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Yes, it does, and it's come up in ways that
have kind of have been very different. You know. I
grew up and went to Catholic school, and I had
a picture of God, you know, as a little you know,
perfect and all powerful and has always existed, and uh,
you know, so they're there and and sits in the
(13:50):
seat of judgment and evaluates whether we're good or bad,
and whether we're going to go to even hell and
all of that, none of it is true according to you.
Gordon's descriptions to me. When he talks about the Divine,
he says that you know that God actually has not
always existed. God evolved out of primal energy and eventually
(14:16):
into into light, and then the light became self aware.
And and so God or the Divine or all, whatever
you want to call it, has not always existed. And
and God and all continues to grow and evolve, and
so it's not perfect. It's continuing to evolve as a consciousness.
(14:37):
The other thing that was different that he explains to
me is that we are all God, all of the piece,
all of the human humans. The souls have been created
by All, but they also are part of all. We
are God, and so that is a very different picture
than I got growing up in Catholic school. That and
(14:59):
we can't be cast out, we can't be judged, we
can't be sent to some purgatory or hell, because we
are God and we're always going to be God and
we're always going to be with God. So again it's
a very different fiction. There's no judgment whatsoever. And as
God continues to grow and evolve, we do that right
(15:23):
alongside of God. And in fact, God sends us. The
Divine sends us to these physical places, these planets, in
this case in the Honor and a very difficult planet
with lots of pain, sends us here to learn things.
And everything we learn then gets uploaded to all and
becomes part of the knowledge of all. So we are
(15:45):
on a you know, a very special sacred mission here.
Everything we learn, all the pain that we go through,
all the struggle we go through, all the things that
we encounter and help us evolve and grow, all of
that then gets uploaded and it's part of the divine.
So it's from Jordan's point of view, you know, the
(16:08):
Divine is continue to evolve, and we are in this
coming to Earth and going through these these processes of
entering bodies and living a life in order to help
God grow.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Do you ever miss him physically, Matthew, Yes, I do
very much.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
And I'm you know, you know, there's a there's a
corner right near a restaurant. Was the last place I
ever ate with him, the last place I ever saw him,
last place I hugged him. I can't even go buy
that that street. I can't go by it because it's
just it hurts too much and I do miss him,
(16:52):
but but I guess I'm what I'm saying. I missed
the physical Jordan. I miss seeing him grow and evolve,
and and he'd be thirty nine now and he died
at twenty three. I miss seeing all of the things
that he will will not be able to have an
experience in his life. And I'm misholding him and hugging him.
(17:13):
And so that's very deep, and sometimes that pain just
wells hugely.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
But did they ever catch and convict the murderers?
Speaker 3 (17:28):
No, they didn't. They claim that they know who did it,
and they and that person is actually incarcerated for a
different crime, but they have never gotten enough evidence to
convict him. So he isn't prison but he is hasn't.
(17:48):
There's been no justice as far as what happened to Jordan.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
What's the greatest lesson you have learned from Jordan?
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Yeah, the greatest lesson, I think the lesson that's been
most important for me personally in my life is that
is what Jordan has taught me about love. And what
he's taught me is that love is not an emotion,
is action. It's what we do and that and he
(18:25):
taught me to commit myself every morning, to have at
every moment of choice, to bring it to every moment
of choice of love and have love be the basis
of everything I choose.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at
one a m. Eastern and go to Coast to coastam
dot com for more
Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast am on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
And welcome back to Coast to Coast George Nori with you.
Matthew McKay is a clinical psychologist, a professor of psychology
at the Right Institute, co founder of the Hay Cashburry
Psychological Services, founder of the Berkeley CBT Clinic, and co
founder of the Bay Area Trauma Recovery Clinic, which serves
(00:25):
low income clients. He has authored and co authored a
number of books forty plus including the Relaxation and Stress
Reduction work Book, and is the most recent one, Lessons
from the Afterlife. Matthew, welcome back.
Speaker 3 (00:39):
How have you been been good. It's great to speak
with you again, George.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Last time we were on about three years ago, we
were talking about your work, The Luminous Landscape of the Afterlife.
I had a great time with you.
Speaker 3 (00:54):
That's right. We were talking about that and Jordan pretty
much wrote that book and in it he was describing,
you know, the spirit world in detail and what do
expect and how to prepare for the transition. But now
he has something new he wants to really take a
look at, you know, to explain the purpose of the
(01:15):
physical universe. You know, these planets, we live on it,
why we come here? So's he's got a whole new
thing that he wants to share with people.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
Explain to our new listeners, Matthew, who Jordan is?
Speaker 3 (01:30):
Yeah, thank you? So Jordan is my son. Fifteen years ago,
he was bicycling home from work. He was attacked on
the street. Four men attacked him, probably to try to
steal his bicycle. There's a tremendous physical fight that ensued.
(01:50):
Eventually he turned and moved away from them. They shot
him in the black. He died on the street. And
what happened, of course, to me, is what happens to
anyone who loses someone they loved deeply. I had this
tremendous need to know did Jordans still exist, and if so,
(02:14):
was the okay? And and that set me on this
journey to find him, and began with, you know, going
to mediums and learning what they could they could tell me.
Although that was uncomfortable and it felt like I wasn't
I wasn't part of a conversation. I was just hearing
from him through them, uh, And so I thought him
(02:38):
in other ways. I went to see doctor Alan Botkin
in Chicago, who had discovered something called induced after death communication,
which is a variant of E M d R. I
had moved into sensitization processing, which I used with my clients.
I'm a psychologist, I worked with trauma and I use
em DR, and so he had had accidentally fallen into
(03:02):
a small variant of the protocol. I went to Chicago.
I experienced induced after death communication, and for the first
time that Jordan's of death, I heard his voice. He
was there, he was in the room, and he was
telling me the things that I deeply needed to know.
He's with you, I love you, I'm watching over you,
(03:27):
and I'm good. I'm in a good place. I'm safe
and happy. Well, that made a big difference for me.
I felt some of the grief lifting, but I still
had this tremendous need to have a conversation, not just
a one way experience, but to have a conversation, to
be able to ask him questions, to be able to
(03:47):
explore things with him. And so I consulted the late
Ralph Messner, who was a specialist in the afterlife. He
taught me how to do channel communication, and that is
what opened the door for me finally to be able
to talk to Jordan, and I've had hundreds of conversations
with him through channel communications that have you know, been
(04:11):
profound and meant so much to me. The things he answered,
so many questions, He's blown my mind. He's described things
that I had no about, knowledge of, or never prepared
to be able to understand until these communications. So it's
been an extraordinary journey with him. And this latest book
(04:33):
is his attempt to explain why we have the physical uners,
why are we here, what are we doing here, what's
this all about? And so it's made a real impact
on me. The other thing also that he's wanting to
do is teach something called deep knowledge meditation, and so
people can connect to their own soul knowledge, their higher self,
(04:57):
their accumulated soul wisdom, and this meant will allow them
to actually connect to that. It's part of our energy,
our soul energy always lives in the afterlife. And even
though we come here and part of our solergy energy
energy these bodies and we have amnesia and we can't
(05:17):
remember of our past lives or any of the experiences
in the afterlife, the part of this is always there
in the afterlife. And we can communicate to that part
that has full awareness and memory of all of our
past lives, all of what we've learned in the spirit world,
and so it's possible to use this communication to actually
connect to the part of us that remembers everything.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
Matthew, when you first made the contact with Jordan, how
did you react.
Speaker 3 (05:46):
Well? The experience of the IADC induced after death communication
with Bocket was I was flabbergasted. I was overwhelmed to
hear his voice and to hear the things that he
said to me. When I learned how to do channel communication,
it was profoundly moving to me because he was saying things.
(06:09):
I could feel his love, I could feel him in
my body, and I could see and he was saying
things that I had never imagined before. And we're not
just enlightening but mind blowing, and so that those early
experiences were full of emotion, full of love, and full
(06:32):
of discovery for me.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
Did it calm you down?
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Yes? Because what I learned was that Jordan was just
a thought away. I hadn't lost him. Death doesn't and
the love and the relationship that we have, In fact,
the love and the relationship was as strong as ever
and I could make contact with him anytime I wanted to,
(07:04):
and so it changed my whole understanding of death. And
what it did is it recreated or re established my
relationship with him, and it continues all these fifteen years.
We talk at least once a week we have, and
(07:25):
those conversations can be varied. He can advise me and
guide me, but also he can tell me amazing things
about the universe and our role within it. So it's
been an experience that has changed my understanding of what
death is and what relationship and love is in the
(07:48):
face of death.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Who initiates the initial contact, Matthew, Jordan or you.
Speaker 3 (07:55):
Well, typically I will establish contact with him. I sit
at a desk that's familiar and feels safe, and there's
a little ritual I go through. I could describe that
if anybody's interested, because it's pretty easy to channel. Almost
anybody can channel, and I've caught taught hundreds of people
(08:16):
to do it. So I can initiate the contact with
a small ritual. But it's not uncommon for Jordan to
start a conversation with me spontaneously, and oftentimes he will
start talking to me when I'm about to do something
really stupid. And he will speak and say what don't
do that, or wait a minute, or do this instead,
(08:38):
and so often as he will initiate, but you'll initiate
when I'm involved in something that that's you know, kind
of heading in the wrong direction.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
What does your wife Jude think of your contact.
Speaker 3 (08:52):
Well, she's very grateful for it. I read to her
all of the things that he says, all of the
communications that come from him. She makes contact with him
in a different way. She feels his presence in a
different way. She feels it in her body. She feels
she has an awareness of him, and he communicates to
(09:16):
her telepathy, but not in this channel communication process. So
she's grateful for it, but she has her own path
to him.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Explain what the deep knowledge meditation is and how can
people access that?
Speaker 3 (09:31):
Okay, so it's actually fairly simple. What it starts with
a question. You want to ask a question and just
begin with you know. And the question could be anything
you know, like, you know, should I you know, should
I invest in some kind of new enterprise or not?
(09:53):
Or the question could be you know, what's the nature
of the divine? What's you know? What is God? In
other words, you could go from the sublime to the
very simple and earth bound. Any question you want to ask,
you can ask your higher self, the part of your
soul that's always in the spirit world. So what you
do is you begin by bringing your attention down to
(10:17):
your diaphragm, to your breath, the center of your life,
and just bring all of your attention to that part
of your body. And as you observe your breath, you
simply note it and the in breath you save yourself
in on the out breath, you say out, and you
just note the end and the out of your breath.
Just continue to watch your breath, and when thoughts show up,
(10:39):
notice the thought as soon as you can, and then
bring your attention back to your breath. Thoughts always do
show up, that's okay, But as soon as they do,
as soon as you notice it, bring your attention back
to the breath. Now, after a little while, you'll find
your mind starting to slow down, and you're going to
find that there's a kind of a quietness and and
(11:02):
and an openness that you begin to feel. And that's
where the channel can open to your higher self, to
your to your soul. It's always in the spirit world.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Matthew, where would you Where would you say, Jordan's is
Where is his soul? Where is his consciousness? Where is he?
Speaker 3 (11:23):
Well, his consciousness is typically in the spirit world, although
it could move around in the spirit world, and his
consciousness can come to Earth and he can he can
move his consciousness to Earth at any time. In fact,
he can move his consciousness any planet uh in in
the universe uh and observe it. So the consciousness of
(11:45):
souls can move instantly kind of wherever they directed. So
he can be his consciousness can be in the spirit
world and he can be involved with his soul group. There,
he get involved in learning and can be reviewing the
caution record. He can be learning some of his spiritual
(12:07):
career work, which has a lot to do with guidance
and guiding. But he can also bring his awareness right
here right and he's in fact is right here right
now with me, helping me with this.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
Interview, giving your points right.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
He does. He gives me part and also he helps
you with my clients. There are times when I'm at
a loss and I'm not sure really what to do
or where to go with a client. I'll ask him
and he'll have something to say, which is almost universally helpful.
So he can be present. His consciousness can come to
me at anytime. I can ask for it, and I
(12:47):
can open the door by just simply thinking of him.
I can ask him a question, his consciousness will come
to me. So consciousness, once we leave our bodies, is
very fluid, and it can move around instantly simply by
the intention to go somewhere. We don't have to rely
on legs and you know, the the effort of muscles
(13:13):
to do any movement. Consciousness moves simply by intention. Consciousnessays
I want to go here, and it's there. It's their
instant And that's how Jordan can show up here.
Speaker 2 (13:24):
What does he think of God? Does that subject ever
come up?
Speaker 3 (13:29):
Yes, it does, and it's come up in ways that
have kind of have been very different. You know. I
grew up and went to Catholic school, and I had
a picture of God, you know, as a little you know,
perfect and all powerful and has always existed, and uh,
you know, so they're there and and sits in the
(13:50):
seat of judgment and evaluates whether we're good or bad,
and whether we're going to go to even hell and
all of that, none of it is true according to you.
Gordon's descriptions to me. When he talks about the Divine,
he says that you know that God actually has not
always existed. God evolved out of primal energy and eventually
(14:16):
into into light, and then the light became self aware.
And and so God or the Divine or all, whatever
you want to call it, has not always existed. And
and God and all continues to grow and evolve, and
so it's not perfect. It's continuing to evolve as a consciousness.
(14:37):
The other thing that was different that he explains to
me is that we are all God, all of the piece,
all of the human humans. The souls have been created
by All, but they also are part of all. We
are God, and so that is a very different picture
than I got growing up in Catholic school. That and
(14:59):
we can't be cast out, we can't be judged, we
can't be sent to some purgatory or hell, because we
are God and we're always going to be God and
we're always going to be with God. So again it's
a very different fiction. There's no judgment whatsoever. And as
God continues to grow and evolve, we do that right
(15:23):
alongside of God. And in fact, God sends us. The
Divine sends us to these physical places, these planets, in
this case in the Honor and a very difficult planet
with lots of pain, sends us here to learn things.
And everything we learn then gets uploaded to all and
becomes part of the knowledge of all. So we are
(15:45):
on a you know, a very special sacred mission here.
Everything we learn, all the pain that we go through,
all the struggle we go through, all the things that
we encounter and help us evolve and grow, all of
that then gets uploaded and it's part of the divine.
So it's from Jordan's point of view, you know, the
(16:08):
Divine is continue to evolve, and we are in this
coming to Earth and going through these these processes of
entering bodies and living a life in order to help
God grow.
Speaker 2 (16:24):
Do you ever miss him physically, Matthew, Yes, I do
very much.
Speaker 3 (16:31):
And I'm you know, you know, there's a there's a
corner right near a restaurant. Was the last place I
ever ate with him, the last place I ever saw him,
last place I hugged him. I can't even go buy
that that street. I can't go by it because it's
just it hurts too much and I do miss him,
(16:52):
but but I guess I'm what I'm saying. I missed
the physical Jordan. I miss seeing him grow and evolve,
and and he'd be thirty nine now and he died
at twenty three. I miss seeing all of the things
that he will will not be able to have an
experience in his life. And I'm misholding him and hugging him.
(17:13):
And so that's very deep, and sometimes that pain just
wells hugely.
Speaker 2 (17:23):
But did they ever catch and convict the murderers?
Speaker 3 (17:28):
No, they didn't. They claim that they know who did it,
and they and that person is actually incarcerated for a
different crime, but they have never gotten enough evidence to
convict him. So he isn't prison but he is hasn't.
(17:48):
There's been no justice as far as what happened to Jordan.
Speaker 2 (17:54):
What's the greatest lesson you have learned from Jordan?
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Yeah, the greatest lesson, I think the lesson that's been
most important for me personally in my life is that
is what Jordan has taught me about love. And what
he's taught me is that love is not an emotion,
is action. It's what we do and that and he
(18:25):
taught me to commit myself every morning, to have at
every moment of choice, to bring it to every moment
of choice of love and have love be the basis
of everything I choose.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Listen to more Coast to Coast AM every weeknight at
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