February 6, 2025 • 30 mins
Jana Kramer and Cheryl Burke are talking with viral divorce attorney Kate Simonds about the top 3 professions least likely to cheat!
Are silver divorces the new trend? Kate Simonds reveals the number one reason men in long-term marriages leave.
Then, Jana admits to telling someone in the bathroom on her wedding day that she had just made a mistake.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:11):
Welcome to I Do Part two the podcast for people
that maybe didn't find there happily ever after the first
time around. I'm one of your hosts, Jana Kramer, and
today I'm joined by one of our favorite celebrity mentors
here on the podcast, former pro dancer for twenty six
seasons on Dancing with the Stars. It's my girl, Cheryl Burke.
Hey girl, Hey, Today we're going to dive into the
topic of divorce, something we know nothing about. Some celebs
(00:34):
in the headlines new trends and divorce. We're going to
bring in Kate Simmons, a divorce attorney with Simmons Law Group.
She's got a video right now that is popping up
all over the internet, so let's get her in here
and do a deep dive on this. Kate, thank you
so much for coming on the show. I kind of
want to start this off and we'll just deep dive
right into it. So when I saw your video, so
(00:55):
you've got this video going viral right now on TikTok
and some other you know streamers, and you basically said, like,
here are the three people that are most likely not
going to cheat, right you said, farmers, accountants and pharmacists.
Is that accurate?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
That's right, That's what's on the video.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
So when I watch it, and maybe this is just
like my jaded heart from my past relationship, but I'm like,
a how did you come up with that? But also
in my mind, I'm like, a dude's gonna cheat no
matter what they do, right, So it's like and a
lot of times, you know, my last husband was a
(01:37):
professional athlete, all right, he's in the terrible category of
most likely going to cheat. Not saying they all do,
because now my husband was a professional athlete as well,
has never cheated, wouldn't dare to freaking cheat? Is the
most respectful man, never cheated on his X, wouldn't cheat
on me, whether I mean anything. It's like, so it's
like to label someone a cheater or not a cheater
(01:57):
to me is kind of like, how can you even
do that?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
In a way, you're so right and you can't really
do that. I mean, I've done videos that have gone
viral and let's just get it out of the way.
The most likely to cheat men, of course, men are
going to cheat your spot on. I see it every day. Cops, firefighters,
I mean, divorce lawyers will joke behind the scenes, like
(02:21):
if you married a cop, that was your first mistake.
So we talk about people in law enforcement EMTs, firefighters
most likely one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Of the time, one hundred percent of the time.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Not one hundred percent of the time. But if someone
calls and they say, it's you know, the talk of
the fire station, the talk of the cop shop, I
mean that we expect. So when those videos got so popular,
we got all this feedback about who's not cheating, women
and men who are more or less likely to be
(02:56):
in the console chair talking about cheating, and so we
just came up with like ten occupations that we don't
see that much. Accountants, librarians, we said, teachers long ago,
and the internet started on fire, like here are all
these teachers that are cheating. But it is really difficult
(03:18):
outside of the occupations I mentioned. You know something really
interesting about cheating that I think is coming to the
forefront more. And when I talk to women, middle aged women,
there's let's set aside the young guys that are acting inappropriately,
but when we see families broken apart by true affairs
(03:43):
and women come in in their late thirties and forties,
I want to hear from both of you if you agree,
if you think this is mainstream information. But I describe
to these women when men are finding these other lies
and they're going to another person, it's really easy for
(04:04):
the wife to say, what did I do wrong? What
did I do in this relationship to cause this? And
I think it's becoming more understandable and people are accepting
the feedback from me more readily that those people, those men,
let's just stick with the gender bias. Those husbands are
(04:25):
unhappy with themselves, that it's not something that these women
are doing or it always takes two when a relationship
breaks down. But I think it's becoming much more of
a positive spin in a way for them to move
forward in their lives for their new beginning, to recognize
that those men are unhappy with themselves and they're looking
(04:47):
for something, and they're looking for something that does not
stem from the fault of the other spouse.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Cheryl, when you got divorce, was your first thought, did
you go into why I could because I was in
this or that?
Speaker 3 (05:03):
I think yeah, And I think it actually stems from
the way I was raised, right like, I don't think
it just I think that's a natural we're all human,
and I think the first thing we do is in
a way shame ourselves, blame ourselves and definitely try to
put the pieces together and get answers. But sometimes there's
just no answers, right, And for the most part, I think,
(05:25):
naturally my brain went to, Yeah, what did I do wrong?
Did I not sleep with him enough? Did I you know,
there's all these questions that I ask myself. Was I
not there? Emotionally? Was I not? It's just but ultimately
intellectually I know, of course it has nothing to do
with me. It has everything to do with that person.
But naturally, right, and if I wasn't in therapy for
(05:48):
as long as I've been in therapy, it would have
really taken a toll on my own self esteem, my confidence,
just me as a woman in general. You know.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Yeah, and I think Kate's your thing too, I mean
to kind of what you're saying, Cheryl. I remember, it's
my first thought was when I found out that what
he was cheating was you know, why am I not
enough for you? To like? Is what's wrong with me?
That he went to go be with someone else? Like was?
You know? But my thing was I went back to
(06:18):
old conversations that we had, like I'll never forget. We
were sitting at this restaurant and I was asking him, like,
you know, why he wouldn't be physical with me or
sleep with me, and he's like, well, look at you.
You look at you wear to bed, and I'm like,
I wear a big like a big T shirt, you know,
and he's like, you think that's sexy. Really you think
that's sexy, And I'm like, I've just never been a
lingerie girl, right, So I never did pull on lauingderie.
(06:40):
I always thought the big boyfriend T shirt was sexy
and like, but like, uh. He immediately blamed his and
I didn't know he was cheating at that point on
the fact that I didn't dress sexy. So once I
found out, I was like, oh, it's because I wasn't
sexy enough for him, so he chose something else that
was sexier, and so imediately it went to I wasn't
(07:01):
good enough. I'm not pretty enough for him to or
sexy enough, and I you know, I didn't give him
what he needed, so that's why, and I need to
now do this to please him so that he stays
and like doesn't do it again.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
But he was just gas lighting you you know well,
and I know.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
That now, but it took I mean years of therapy
to go, oh, wait a minute, this has nothing to
do with me. I was always good enough. I was
always pretty enough, and I was it was always his
low self esteem. But when I go back to all
the comments, he was trying to bring my self esteem
down to make himself feel better. But you don't know
that when that happens, right, like when you're going through
that divorce, You're like, why who wasn't I good enough?
Why couldn't he stay for me? And like treat me
(07:37):
this way? Now this other girl. It's like no, So
I think you know when I you know, Kate, I
guess you know. Another question is that is when I
was talking to my now husband, I was telling him
we were kind of talking about infidelity, and he's like,
I said, you know, the main reason that I left
him wasn't because he cheated. It was because of the
lies and it was because of the deceit. And he's like,
(07:59):
what not because he slept with other women? And I'm like, no,
it was because he lied about it and he wasn't
honest and he was It was it was the It
wasn't the act. It was the lie, and it was
the deceit, That's.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Why, and not taking accountability and sticking to it like
it's a whole thing. Yeah, Like it's never the act
of it's never never.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Yeah, it's like that hurts. Yeah, I can forgive and
I tried, but it's always the deceit and the lie.
And so okay, do you see that a lot with
is you know, when people file for divorce, you know,
is it infidelity or do you see it as the
the the uh, you know, the lie.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
You're right on, it's the lie. It's not the infidelity.
It's not I'm here the day after I found out
about this affair. And you've also identified a huge difference
in the maturity level of twenty year old women that
I see thirty year old women that I see in forty.
I mean, and this is partly personal experience, but as
I talk to female clients, and frankly, I do have
(08:57):
about a fifty to fifty split gender wise, But with
my female clients, it's a different mindset. When they're coming in.
You're so much more confident. Think of what a different
person you are a twenty year old Janet a thirty
year old Janet, third year old Cheryl to forty year
old Cheryl. I mean it's like our milestones are huge,
(09:19):
and so yes, absolutely it's he wouldn't do the work necessary,
or maybe maybe she cheated and I just did a
consult recently. I had an affair ten years ago. I
was willing to move on. I was willing to go
to therapy. I wanted to do the work, and he couldn't.
(09:39):
He never got over it. He throws it in my
face every day and it just drags the relationship to
a screeching halt. And so that's absolutely right. Can you
get a great therapist or counselor which can be difficult
to do, and do the work needed if both people
want to save the relationship. Law firm is very very
(10:02):
resolution oriented, reconciliation oriented, and it doesn't happen a lot.
But if people are like, we need a therapist, we
want to work on this, we want to put this
on hold, I give lots of space for that timeline
and for that to happen. Does it happen a lot?
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Now It's like my sobriety, like without first of all
taking accountability and realizing what you did was wrong or
in my case, when it comes to my sobriety is
first admitting that I have a problem, right, And you
can't continue to seesaw back and forth, like it can't
be like, oh, yes I do, Oh no I don't.
I'm just a social drinker. Like no, I had to
have a come to Jesus moment and be like, I
(10:41):
actually have a drinking problem and if I want to
get better, I have to do the work and do
the steps and get into a program and all of it.
And that's the same thing with infidelity. It's it was
the teeter tottering. It's like, okay, yes, no, maybe I
didn't technically cheat on you, or remember when you did this.
It's like that to me, just is a huge red flag.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Cheryl. Let me give you a virtual high five, virtual hug.
Alcohol is the poison of family court. I am so
impressed with you. What a great lifestyle. So congratulations, Thank
good for you girl, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
What is the number one reason why people are getting
divorced when they come into your office.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Grown apart different places in life. If I had to
pick one, and I get that question a lot, so
I would not select infidelity. I think that's really a
byproduct of other things that are happening. I have a
theory about society with this push to twenty year old people. Everybody,
(11:51):
whoever you've been with for a year, it's like, what's
the next step in life? Do you want to have kids?
What are you doing? I think people young people get
married to quickly. If you really go through all of
the seasons with someone deal with difficulty, how do you
too communicate? I am so lucky. I'm married to a
man who's emotionally mature. He can communicate, and I don't
(12:15):
see that a heck of a lot. And it's people
who are in different places and eventually take the kids
out of it, because sometimes people stay married or I'll
see you when my kids are fifteen and up because
I know this isn't the right relationship for me. But
looking back, people see the red flags. I've had more
(12:38):
than ten consults in the last year that will say
I knew I shouldn't have married this person when we
were walking down the aisle. That is so heartbreaking.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah, I had one of those. I had one of
those that went in the bathroom and cried about it
because I was like, well, prap.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
This is the thing with being in the business. It's
like it just felt like a dress rehearsal.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah, right, And why couldn't you Why couldn't you pull
out of that moment?
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Oh? There was no way in hell.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
We had the magazine you know, thing already they were paying,
they paid.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
I had Bendy Weiss involved, Like this was not.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
People already had their tickets and how could I How
could I ruin people's plans was what my thought was, Like.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Their airline tickets or like the tickets to the show.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Like the plans, How could I ruin that for them? Yeah,
they've already spent their money on it.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Yep, and nothing. Nothing in our thought process was like
maybe this is wrong and I need to like run
away bride it.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
You know. It's yeah, that's the part where it's you know,
it's sad now to think because I believe and now
I know in my you know, this age being forty,
that if I would have texted my mom and said, hey,
I want to actually call this off because I don't
think it's right, she would be like, I one thousand percent,
I will let everyone know and I will you know,
she would have been there. It was just my own
(13:59):
embarrassment and maybe you know my not I wasn't one
hundred percent sure, so I thought maybe i'd change my mind.
I thought maybe i'd get that feeling back when I
walked down the aisle.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
What did you feel when you walked down the aisle?
I just out of curiosity, just complete regret. Oh really
you were present though with yourself?
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Yeah? Yeah, because I told my best friend in the bathroom,
I was like, I just made the biggest mistake, and
now I don't want to My whole thing was I
don't want to be divorced with kids because that's the
house that I grew up in. So I was like,
I got to divorce them right away because I will
end up having babies and then we'll get divorced and
I don't want that. So that was why I then
did that, you know so, but it was it was wrong,
(14:40):
and it was it was real to somebody else, and
that wasn't fair, you know.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
So now would you have gone, would you have stopped everything?
Speaker 1 (14:46):
One hundred percent? And that's why I think to your point,
Kate is marrying later in life, you know yourself more now,
and it's I never want to tell like when I
hear someone young getting married that's in their middle twenties
or you know, like, I'm like, oh gosh, it like
almost like breaks my heart and I always want to
celebrate love, but I also know how much you grow
(15:09):
during those years too.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
But then also, who am I to say, like what
is young?
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah, I'm like, maybe they're you know, maybe they'll end
up being together forever. So who am I to say?
Speaker 3 (15:20):
And what a learning lesson? Like what I've like, I've
learned so much too.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yeah, And so it's like, why would I want to
take that away from people too?
Speaker 2 (15:27):
You know? Yeah, I do like the discussion of It's
part of your story. It makes you part of who
you are. But my every day is seeing the heartbreak
of divorce and the heartbreak that it brings even the
greater family, everybody in the family unit and so young people.
I say, and I love weddings and I love love.
(15:50):
And by the way, I love the name of this
podcast we did. I have a friend who owns a
magazine in our community, and we ran a short ad
for our Divorce in the Day program that was when
your I do needs a redo, do it in a day?
And I thought, oh, As soon as I saw the
title of this podcast, I thought, that's fantastic, it's great idea.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Well, speaking of redos though, I mean, Bill Gates recently
made headlines because he was saying, you know, his divorce
was the mistake he most regretted. And you know, have
you like you kind of spoke on it a little bit,
but have you seen people then say never mind? Like, yeah,
you said that they want to maybe do therapy, but
do they end up coming back and getting divorced or
have you had more people actually pull it off the table, they.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Will come back and get divorced. And I saw that,
And you know, Bill and Melinda had a long term marriage,
and I thought the comment was interesting. I'm going to
predict that he doesn't mean he wishes he was still
married to her. I think they had their long standing
issues and it's a very painful process. It's very difficult.
(17:00):
We almost never have people actually reconcile and stay reconciled.
I've had couples get divorced, remarried, divorced. I divorced the
same couple three times throughout my career, and they're kind
of just a love hate toxic strong feelings and no
(17:21):
we did a Chris and I did a mediation recently
where the couple really felt strongly about their relationship. They
knew it was the right thing. They were very sweet people,
and they asked us to hold their paperwork. They wanted
to give it, you know, a little bit of time
and cold within sixty days and said file it. And
(17:43):
with the final decree and everything, we don't really see
the reconciliation that successful long term.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
So when you saw j Loo and Ben then reckon.
I know they weren't married. They were engaged though, So
when you saw them get back to Gareth and get married,
did you already go divorce?
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Absolutely? They're just like that. I mean, it really is
just like that couple. And of course they have the
heighten the money, the attention, everything that goes along with
being in a lister and everybody's watching, which makes it
more painful. I mean, you've seen some of Jlo's statements,
and I think it's incredibly painful. I also think that
very famous celebrities tend to have traits of loneliness because
(18:27):
that is such an isolating life to live.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
I think I mean that's because they're not though finding
the true love, which happens within you, right, like you
complete you regardless, like there is no other person that
would fill that void for you. So if you haven't
done that work individually as two separate people, it's going
to be really hard that you are leaving it up
for so many expectations on one another that you're bound
(18:52):
to not ever live up to it.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
That's right, and not as a negative to people like
Ben and Jlo who have those goes. I don't mean
that in a negative way. It's just part of their personality.
But how exhausting to support someone as fabulous and famous
as you are all the time and have that constant
balance in your life. How do they find a balance?
(19:15):
I think? But yeah, I figure they'll be they'll be
splitting up again.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Do you think it's easier or more complicated to get
divorce late in life?
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Easier the silver divorce? Oh yeah?
Speaker 1 (19:36):
So Chery, what is that? Because I you know, I
saw you were talking about silver divorce, so I have
I don't know what it is. Tell me what I mean?
Speaker 3 (19:42):
I just found out today, But silver divorce is like
when you divorce later in life, right when you're like
in your fifty fifty sixties. I think and you realize that, Wow,
this is not the person I want to live my
rest of my life with. But I also think it's generational, right, So,
like I just think about my parents right now. I
come from a divorce family, but my mom remarried my
(20:03):
stepfather and if they were too divorced. Today, there's so
much it's generational in the sense of first of all,
when my mom, you know, was being raised by her parents,
there was no such thing like there. She's Filipino, she's
very Catholic, and there's a lot of shame that comes
with it. But I think with how open we are
now with mental health, I think it's leaving that door
(20:25):
maybe a little bit open for that generation nowadays to
be like, you know what, I'm going to choose me.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
That's right. And my message to women is choose you
when you're forty or when the kids are out of
the house. I have a lot of experience with gray
or silver divorce, whichever you call it. We're my law
firms in Phoenix. We're very close to a lot of
retirement communities, as you can imagine, and I have had
(20:54):
a lot of the both men and women in their seventies, eighties,
late eighties. Can you imagine going through this awful process.
The silver lining is that they're pretty calm about the
whole situation. And here's the sad part. This is my
message to middle aged women, because they knew say it's
(21:17):
a silver divorce, that they have been truly married fifty years,
not a second marriage, and the kids are long gone.
All of the properties community they all say they First
of all, everybody tells me how many years they've been
living in separate bedrooms, how long it's been since they've
had sex with each other, And it's decades, I mean
(21:38):
decades that they've been living as roommates. And it's such
an awful process. No one wanted to start it, but
it we all know where the three of us are
about the same age. When you're fifty, you have a
whole life ahead of you. I mean that's the heartbreaking
part when I see the silver divorce because they've been
(22:00):
you know, they've been roommates for decades. Frankly, I see
it the opposite.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Like I think it's a beautiful thing that they're like
finally seeing themselves, like as their own person, and like
we do, we evolve, and sometimes it's with that person
you've decided to partner with, and sometimes it's not, and
that's okay. But I think it's beautiful that they're opening
their eyes and trying to walk the rest of their
life in a present hopefully loving themselves way, you know,
(22:28):
and doing that work. And I think it's really beautiful.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
It is beautiful. You're right. But it's always because the
husband gets a girlfriend.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
I mean, but like you said earlier, it's deeper than that.
It's so much deeper. I don't think it's that just
because of that. I think there was, like like you said,
decades of not sleeping together, roommate like that goes. I
have had that same experience, except not even close to
as long as those people have been married. You know.
That's feeling of stagnant, like that stagnation feeling. I am out,
(22:57):
I'm out fast, I can't be in it.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
You're right that it is much better. And with these
communities that we have in this area, there's so many
activities and new friend groups and support groups and any
new beginning or a chance that finding yourself is worth it.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Is it hard for you to be a divorce lawyer?
Speaker 2 (23:21):
It's not. And I can't really explain the reason, because
most of my colleagues find it to be incredibly difficult
on a personal level. They take the feelings home with
them and I've just never been like that, and I
don't really know the reason. I'm just suited for the job.
I see it as a puzzle. I really, really I
could be a life coach in another life. Although I'm
(23:44):
not trained for that. I really enjoy it and I've
as after thirty, I no longer work every hour of
the week. I have really good boundaries. All my clients
have my cell phone number. They appropriately I really like
my job. But if other divorce lawyers are telling you
(24:07):
the truth, I think I'm in the minority on that.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
How do you separate the emotion? Like, how do you
do that it.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Stays at the office. I really treat this as a
job that I like. I care about my clients. I
think they really care. I have wonderful clients. I'm very
realistic with people. You probably know divorce attorneys can treat
the job as making a lot of money, fighting a lot,
(24:34):
filing a lot of emotions, billing by the hour. The
more fighting, the sooner my kids get their college paid.
I mean, that's a reality of the job, and our
business model is saving people money, keeping the emotions in check.
I'm very realistic with them up front. We talk about
their goals, we talk about the law, we talk about
(24:56):
the process, we talk about mediation, and I our office
is trying to change the culture of divorce in Arizona,
and that's how I treat it.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Would you recommend a prenup for people that get married.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
I do recommend a prenup, and I don't think that
it should hold the stereotype of you're getting a prenup
and that's anti love, or if you're going to be together,
you don't need it. I think there are many benefits
to a prenup and anybody who's not twenty with nothing
(25:34):
should consider it.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Yeah, no, for sure. I guess my piece with the divorce,
just for my personal stuff is the fact that you know,
I pay my ex husband. I paid him a lump sum,
and I also pay him child support and I have
the kids seventy it's seventy thirty split. So I find
it I always get a little like frustrated when I
(25:56):
have conversations of just you know, because divorce and because
it kind of just brings up all those you know,
those feelings and that resentment and it's just it's just yuck.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
I don't like.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
I wish you would have planned a prenup.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
We had a post up, but the problem was my
divorce lawyer said it's not going to hold up in
court as well as a prenup, and he's like, he
technically can fight it and he could still technically win half,
you know, which my ex husband at the time was like,
I will never fight this, you know what I mean, which,
of course when we got divorced, he's like, I'm going
to fight this. But apparently again they the prenup will
(26:33):
always hold up. And then if is that right or wrong?
Prenup holds up better than post.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Up, that's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
So that's why, you know, with that situation, it's uh,
I wish for sure I would have had signed a
prenup with him prenup, but you know, at the end
of the day, I still would be paying child support.
That is the law of with the things, and that's
you know, a whole other story.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
But feel free to tell me too off, But did
you sign one this time around?
Speaker 1 (27:02):
So we have never discussed that. We're still not going
to discuss that. But but you know, it was it
was a very long conversation. We had a lot of
conversation around it, and uh, I think it's really hard
for men to have that conversation, especially you know, my
husband is very old school and you know, did not
(27:26):
love the idea of it. And you know, whatever we
decided was a private matter, but it was something that
was very important to say. It was very important to
me because of how much was taken from my ex,
how much my ex husband took.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
I think you probably, even if you did or didn't
having that conversation, you were miles ahead of most people
because it's such a tough topic. If you two talked
it through and talked about all your assets and what
you think for the future, that's you're doing better than
a lot of people before they get married.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
So super But my my divorce attorney was definitely likes
you are have it like there's no like. He's like,
you are signing this, and I'm just like, Okay, I
hear you and I need to have we have to
have conversations. It's it's a conversation piece because I am
you know, old school and the fact that I do
believe in you know, love and a marriage actually lasting.
(28:22):
I you know, I didn't get it right this go around.
And that's why I love this podcast because this is
about you know, I do part two and you know, Cheryl,
I didn't get it right a couple of times. And Cheryl,
you know you didn't. We thought you got it right,
you know what I mean. But I think there's a
piece of that I do Part two that I that
I love and where you know, as sad as when
(28:43):
I asked you the question about you know, is it
hard for you? Because I believe that as much as
divorce makes me so sad, Cheryl, I've seen from watching
you on the outside of things you have, there's a
different aura about you now. You're happier, you're lighter, You've
like I see it from just watching your stories. And
(29:04):
I love that people have their next chapters and that
they get to fall in love again and find love
that they deserve and that suits them and that you know,
respects them. And so that is like so beautiful and
you've come into your own and like it's just it's
really beautiful to witness someone falling in love with themselves
for then that person to fall in love with them
(29:27):
and respect them the way that they deserve. So, you know,
I appreciate Kate you coming on and talking to us,
and you know, I just I look forward to all
the people that have their part too, Cheryl, yours is
coming up. See it's common, it's common. I feel the
glow up I do. I just I see it and
I love the lightness in you. You know, you've you've,
(29:47):
You've entered the lights.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Definitely different from our last conversation.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Yeah, Kate, thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Thank you both.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Are you divorced? Navigating what your I Do Part two
could look like? I need some advice? Call us or
email us, follow us on socials. All the information will
be in the show notes. Make sure to rate and
review the podcast I Do Part two and iHeartRadio podcast
where falling in love is the main objective. Love you, Cheryl,
Love you,
Welcome to I Do Part two the podcast for people
that maybe didn't find there happily ever after the first
time around. I'm one of your hosts, Jana Kramer, and
today I'm joined by one of our favorite celebrity mentors
here on the podcast, former pro dancer for twenty six
seasons on Dancing with the Stars. It's my girl, Cheryl Burke.
Hey girl, Hey, Today we're going to dive into the
topic of divorce, something we know nothing about. Some celebs
(00:34):
in the headlines new trends and divorce. We're going to
bring in Kate Simmons, a divorce attorney with Simmons Law Group.
She's got a video right now that is popping up
all over the internet, so let's get her in here
and do a deep dive on this. Kate, thank you
so much for coming on the show. I kind of
want to start this off and we'll just deep dive
right into it. So when I saw your video, so
(00:55):
you've got this video going viral right now on TikTok
and some other you know streamers, and you basically said, like,
here are the three people that are most likely not
going to cheat, right you said, farmers, accountants and pharmacists.
Is that accurate?
Speaker 2 (01:14):
That's right, That's what's on the video.
Speaker 1 (01:16):
So when I watch it, and maybe this is just
like my jaded heart from my past relationship, but I'm like,
a how did you come up with that? But also
in my mind, I'm like, a dude's gonna cheat no
matter what they do, right, So it's like and a
lot of times, you know, my last husband was a
(01:37):
professional athlete, all right, he's in the terrible category of
most likely going to cheat. Not saying they all do,
because now my husband was a professional athlete as well,
has never cheated, wouldn't dare to freaking cheat? Is the
most respectful man, never cheated on his X, wouldn't cheat
on me, whether I mean anything. It's like, so it's
like to label someone a cheater or not a cheater
(01:57):
to me is kind of like, how can you even
do that?
Speaker 2 (02:00):
In a way, you're so right and you can't really
do that. I mean, I've done videos that have gone
viral and let's just get it out of the way.
The most likely to cheat men, of course, men are
going to cheat your spot on. I see it every day. Cops, firefighters,
I mean, divorce lawyers will joke behind the scenes, like
(02:21):
if you married a cop, that was your first mistake.
So we talk about people in law enforcement EMTs, firefighters
most likely one hundred percent.
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Of the time, one hundred percent of the time.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
Not one hundred percent of the time. But if someone
calls and they say, it's you know, the talk of
the fire station, the talk of the cop shop, I
mean that we expect. So when those videos got so popular,
we got all this feedback about who's not cheating, women
and men who are more or less likely to be
(02:56):
in the console chair talking about cheating, and so we
just came up with like ten occupations that we don't
see that much. Accountants, librarians, we said, teachers long ago,
and the internet started on fire, like here are all
these teachers that are cheating. But it is really difficult
(03:18):
outside of the occupations I mentioned. You know something really
interesting about cheating that I think is coming to the
forefront more. And when I talk to women, middle aged women,
there's let's set aside the young guys that are acting inappropriately,
but when we see families broken apart by true affairs
(03:43):
and women come in in their late thirties and forties,
I want to hear from both of you if you agree,
if you think this is mainstream information. But I describe
to these women when men are finding these other lies
and they're going to another person, it's really easy for
(04:04):
the wife to say, what did I do wrong? What
did I do in this relationship to cause this? And
I think it's becoming more understandable and people are accepting
the feedback from me more readily that those people, those men,
let's just stick with the gender bias. Those husbands are
(04:25):
unhappy with themselves, that it's not something that these women
are doing or it always takes two when a relationship
breaks down. But I think it's becoming much more of
a positive spin in a way for them to move
forward in their lives for their new beginning, to recognize
that those men are unhappy with themselves and they're looking
(04:47):
for something, and they're looking for something that does not
stem from the fault of the other spouse.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
Cheryl, when you got divorce, was your first thought, did
you go into why I could because I was in
this or that?
Speaker 3 (05:03):
I think yeah, And I think it actually stems from
the way I was raised, right like, I don't think
it just I think that's a natural we're all human,
and I think the first thing we do is in
a way shame ourselves, blame ourselves and definitely try to
put the pieces together and get answers. But sometimes there's
just no answers, right, And for the most part, I think,
(05:25):
naturally my brain went to, Yeah, what did I do wrong?
Did I not sleep with him enough? Did I you know,
there's all these questions that I ask myself. Was I
not there? Emotionally? Was I not? It's just but ultimately
intellectually I know, of course it has nothing to do
with me. It has everything to do with that person.
But naturally, right, and if I wasn't in therapy for
(05:48):
as long as I've been in therapy, it would have
really taken a toll on my own self esteem, my confidence,
just me as a woman in general. You know.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Yeah, and I think Kate's your thing too, I mean
to kind of what you're saying, Cheryl. I remember, it's
my first thought was when I found out that what
he was cheating was you know, why am I not
enough for you? To like? Is what's wrong with me?
That he went to go be with someone else? Like was?
You know? But my thing was I went back to
(06:18):
old conversations that we had, like I'll never forget. We
were sitting at this restaurant and I was asking him, like,
you know, why he wouldn't be physical with me or
sleep with me, and he's like, well, look at you.
You look at you wear to bed, and I'm like,
I wear a big like a big T shirt, you know,
and he's like, you think that's sexy. Really you think
that's sexy, And I'm like, I've just never been a
lingerie girl, right, So I never did pull on lauingderie.
(06:40):
I always thought the big boyfriend T shirt was sexy
and like, but like, uh. He immediately blamed his and
I didn't know he was cheating at that point on
the fact that I didn't dress sexy. So once I
found out, I was like, oh, it's because I wasn't
sexy enough for him, so he chose something else that
was sexier, and so imediately it went to I wasn't
(07:01):
good enough. I'm not pretty enough for him to or
sexy enough, and I you know, I didn't give him
what he needed, so that's why, and I need to
now do this to please him so that he stays
and like doesn't do it again.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
But he was just gas lighting you you know well,
and I know.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
That now, but it took I mean years of therapy
to go, oh, wait a minute, this has nothing to
do with me. I was always good enough. I was
always pretty enough, and I was it was always his
low self esteem. But when I go back to all
the comments, he was trying to bring my self esteem
down to make himself feel better. But you don't know
that when that happens, right, like when you're going through
that divorce, You're like, why who wasn't I good enough?
Why couldn't he stay for me? And like treat me
(07:37):
this way? Now this other girl. It's like no, So
I think you know when I you know, Kate, I
guess you know. Another question is that is when I
was talking to my now husband, I was telling him
we were kind of talking about infidelity, and he's like,
I said, you know, the main reason that I left
him wasn't because he cheated. It was because of the
lies and it was because of the deceit. And he's like,
(07:59):
what not because he slept with other women? And I'm like, no,
it was because he lied about it and he wasn't
honest and he was It was it was the It
wasn't the act. It was the lie, and it was
the deceit, That's.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Why, and not taking accountability and sticking to it like
it's a whole thing. Yeah, Like it's never the act
of it's never never.
Speaker 1 (08:17):
Yeah, it's like that hurts. Yeah, I can forgive and
I tried, but it's always the deceit and the lie.
And so okay, do you see that a lot with
is you know, when people file for divorce, you know,
is it infidelity or do you see it as the
the the uh, you know, the lie.
Speaker 2 (08:34):
You're right on, it's the lie. It's not the infidelity.
It's not I'm here the day after I found out
about this affair. And you've also identified a huge difference
in the maturity level of twenty year old women that
I see thirty year old women that I see in forty.
I mean, and this is partly personal experience, but as
I talk to female clients, and frankly, I do have
(08:57):
about a fifty to fifty split gender wise, But with
my female clients, it's a different mindset. When they're coming in.
You're so much more confident. Think of what a different
person you are a twenty year old Janet a thirty
year old Janet, third year old Cheryl to forty year
old Cheryl. I mean it's like our milestones are huge,
(09:19):
and so yes, absolutely it's he wouldn't do the work necessary,
or maybe maybe she cheated and I just did a
consult recently. I had an affair ten years ago. I
was willing to move on. I was willing to go
to therapy. I wanted to do the work, and he couldn't.
(09:39):
He never got over it. He throws it in my
face every day and it just drags the relationship to
a screeching halt. And so that's absolutely right. Can you
get a great therapist or counselor which can be difficult
to do, and do the work needed if both people
want to save the relationship. Law firm is very very
(10:02):
resolution oriented, reconciliation oriented, and it doesn't happen a lot.
But if people are like, we need a therapist, we
want to work on this, we want to put this
on hold, I give lots of space for that timeline
and for that to happen. Does it happen a lot?
Speaker 3 (10:19):
Now It's like my sobriety, like without first of all
taking accountability and realizing what you did was wrong or
in my case, when it comes to my sobriety is
first admitting that I have a problem, right, And you
can't continue to seesaw back and forth, like it can't
be like, oh, yes I do, Oh no I don't.
I'm just a social drinker. Like no, I had to
have a come to Jesus moment and be like, I
(10:41):
actually have a drinking problem and if I want to
get better, I have to do the work and do
the steps and get into a program and all of it.
And that's the same thing with infidelity. It's it was
the teeter tottering. It's like, okay, yes, no, maybe I
didn't technically cheat on you, or remember when you did this.
It's like that to me, just is a huge red flag.
Speaker 2 (11:03):
Cheryl. Let me give you a virtual high five, virtual hug.
Alcohol is the poison of family court. I am so
impressed with you. What a great lifestyle. So congratulations, Thank
good for you girl, Thank you.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
What is the number one reason why people are getting
divorced when they come into your office.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Grown apart different places in life. If I had to
pick one, and I get that question a lot, so
I would not select infidelity. I think that's really a
byproduct of other things that are happening. I have a
theory about society with this push to twenty year old people. Everybody,
(11:51):
whoever you've been with for a year, it's like, what's
the next step in life? Do you want to have kids?
What are you doing? I think people young people get
married to quickly. If you really go through all of
the seasons with someone deal with difficulty, how do you
too communicate? I am so lucky. I'm married to a
man who's emotionally mature. He can communicate, and I don't
(12:15):
see that a heck of a lot. And it's people
who are in different places and eventually take the kids
out of it, because sometimes people stay married or I'll
see you when my kids are fifteen and up because
I know this isn't the right relationship for me. But
looking back, people see the red flags. I've had more
(12:38):
than ten consults in the last year that will say
I knew I shouldn't have married this person when we
were walking down the aisle. That is so heartbreaking.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Yeah, I had one of those. I had one of
those that went in the bathroom and cried about it
because I was like, well, prap.
Speaker 3 (12:54):
This is the thing with being in the business. It's
like it just felt like a dress rehearsal.
Speaker 2 (12:59):
Yeah, right, And why couldn't you Why couldn't you pull
out of that moment?
Speaker 3 (13:05):
Oh? There was no way in hell.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
We had the magazine you know, thing already they were paying,
they paid.
Speaker 3 (13:13):
I had Bendy Weiss involved, Like this was not.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
People already had their tickets and how could I How
could I ruin people's plans was what my thought was, Like.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
Their airline tickets or like the tickets to the show.
Speaker 1 (13:26):
Like the plans, How could I ruin that for them? Yeah,
they've already spent their money on it.
Speaker 3 (13:32):
Yep, and nothing. Nothing in our thought process was like
maybe this is wrong and I need to like run
away bride it.
Speaker 1 (13:37):
You know. It's yeah, that's the part where it's you know,
it's sad now to think because I believe and now
I know in my you know, this age being forty,
that if I would have texted my mom and said, hey,
I want to actually call this off because I don't
think it's right, she would be like, I one thousand percent,
I will let everyone know and I will you know,
she would have been there. It was just my own
(13:59):
embarrassment and maybe you know my not I wasn't one
hundred percent sure, so I thought maybe i'd change my mind.
I thought maybe i'd get that feeling back when I
walked down the aisle.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
What did you feel when you walked down the aisle?
I just out of curiosity, just complete regret. Oh really
you were present though with yourself?
Speaker 1 (14:18):
Yeah? Yeah, because I told my best friend in the bathroom,
I was like, I just made the biggest mistake, and
now I don't want to My whole thing was I
don't want to be divorced with kids because that's the
house that I grew up in. So I was like,
I got to divorce them right away because I will
end up having babies and then we'll get divorced and
I don't want that. So that was why I then
did that, you know so, but it was it was wrong,
(14:40):
and it was it was real to somebody else, and
that wasn't fair, you know.
Speaker 3 (14:43):
So now would you have gone, would you have stopped everything?
Speaker 1 (14:46):
One hundred percent? And that's why I think to your point,
Kate is marrying later in life, you know yourself more now,
and it's I never want to tell like when I
hear someone young getting married that's in their middle twenties
or you know, like, I'm like, oh gosh, it like
almost like breaks my heart and I always want to
celebrate love, but I also know how much you grow
(15:09):
during those years too.
Speaker 3 (15:11):
But then also, who am I to say, like what
is young?
Speaker 1 (15:14):
Yeah, I'm like, maybe they're you know, maybe they'll end
up being together forever. So who am I to say?
Speaker 3 (15:20):
And what a learning lesson? Like what I've like, I've
learned so much too.
Speaker 1 (15:24):
Yeah, And so it's like, why would I want to
take that away from people too?
Speaker 2 (15:27):
You know? Yeah, I do like the discussion of It's
part of your story. It makes you part of who
you are. But my every day is seeing the heartbreak
of divorce and the heartbreak that it brings even the
greater family, everybody in the family unit and so young people.
I say, and I love weddings and I love love.
(15:50):
And by the way, I love the name of this
podcast we did. I have a friend who owns a
magazine in our community, and we ran a short ad
for our Divorce in the Day program that was when
your I do needs a redo, do it in a day?
And I thought, oh, As soon as I saw the
title of this podcast, I thought, that's fantastic, it's great idea.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
Well, speaking of redos though, I mean, Bill Gates recently
made headlines because he was saying, you know, his divorce
was the mistake he most regretted. And you know, have
you like you kind of spoke on it a little bit,
but have you seen people then say never mind? Like, yeah,
you said that they want to maybe do therapy, but
do they end up coming back and getting divorced or
have you had more people actually pull it off the table, they.
Speaker 2 (16:36):
Will come back and get divorced. And I saw that,
And you know, Bill and Melinda had a long term marriage,
and I thought the comment was interesting. I'm going to
predict that he doesn't mean he wishes he was still
married to her. I think they had their long standing
issues and it's a very painful process. It's very difficult.
(17:00):
We almost never have people actually reconcile and stay reconciled.
I've had couples get divorced, remarried, divorced. I divorced the
same couple three times throughout my career, and they're kind
of just a love hate toxic strong feelings and no
(17:21):
we did a Chris and I did a mediation recently
where the couple really felt strongly about their relationship. They
knew it was the right thing. They were very sweet people,
and they asked us to hold their paperwork. They wanted
to give it, you know, a little bit of time
and cold within sixty days and said file it. And
(17:43):
with the final decree and everything, we don't really see
the reconciliation that successful long term.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
So when you saw j Loo and Ben then reckon.
I know they weren't married. They were engaged though, So
when you saw them get back to Gareth and get married,
did you already go divorce?
Speaker 2 (18:02):
Absolutely? They're just like that. I mean, it really is
just like that couple. And of course they have the
heighten the money, the attention, everything that goes along with
being in a lister and everybody's watching, which makes it
more painful. I mean, you've seen some of Jlo's statements,
and I think it's incredibly painful. I also think that
very famous celebrities tend to have traits of loneliness because
(18:27):
that is such an isolating life to live.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
I think I mean that's because they're not though finding
the true love, which happens within you, right, like you
complete you regardless, like there is no other person that
would fill that void for you. So if you haven't
done that work individually as two separate people, it's going
to be really hard that you are leaving it up
for so many expectations on one another that you're bound
(18:52):
to not ever live up to it.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
That's right, and not as a negative to people like
Ben and Jlo who have those goes. I don't mean
that in a negative way. It's just part of their personality.
But how exhausting to support someone as fabulous and famous
as you are all the time and have that constant
balance in your life. How do they find a balance?
(19:15):
I think? But yeah, I figure they'll be they'll be
splitting up again.
Speaker 1 (19:30):
Do you think it's easier or more complicated to get
divorce late in life?
Speaker 3 (19:34):
Easier the silver divorce? Oh yeah?
Speaker 1 (19:36):
So Chery, what is that? Because I you know, I
saw you were talking about silver divorce, so I have
I don't know what it is. Tell me what I mean?
Speaker 3 (19:42):
I just found out today, But silver divorce is like
when you divorce later in life, right when you're like
in your fifty fifty sixties. I think and you realize that, Wow,
this is not the person I want to live my
rest of my life with. But I also think it's generational, right, So,
like I just think about my parents right now. I
come from a divorce family, but my mom remarried my
(20:03):
stepfather and if they were too divorced. Today, there's so
much it's generational in the sense of first of all,
when my mom, you know, was being raised by her parents,
there was no such thing like there. She's Filipino, she's
very Catholic, and there's a lot of shame that comes
with it. But I think with how open we are
now with mental health, I think it's leaving that door
(20:25):
maybe a little bit open for that generation nowadays to
be like, you know what, I'm going to choose me.
Speaker 2 (20:31):
That's right. And my message to women is choose you
when you're forty or when the kids are out of
the house. I have a lot of experience with gray
or silver divorce, whichever you call it. We're my law
firms in Phoenix. We're very close to a lot of
retirement communities, as you can imagine, and I have had
(20:54):
a lot of the both men and women in their seventies, eighties,
late eighties. Can you imagine going through this awful process.
The silver lining is that they're pretty calm about the
whole situation. And here's the sad part. This is my
message to middle aged women, because they knew say it's
(21:17):
a silver divorce, that they have been truly married fifty years,
not a second marriage, and the kids are long gone.
All of the properties community they all say they First
of all, everybody tells me how many years they've been
living in separate bedrooms, how long it's been since they've
had sex with each other, And it's decades, I mean
(21:38):
decades that they've been living as roommates. And it's such
an awful process. No one wanted to start it, but
it we all know where the three of us are
about the same age. When you're fifty, you have a
whole life ahead of you. I mean that's the heartbreaking
part when I see the silver divorce because they've been
(22:00):
you know, they've been roommates for decades. Frankly, I see
it the opposite.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Like I think it's a beautiful thing that they're like
finally seeing themselves, like as their own person, and like
we do, we evolve, and sometimes it's with that person
you've decided to partner with, and sometimes it's not, and
that's okay. But I think it's beautiful that they're opening
their eyes and trying to walk the rest of their
life in a present hopefully loving themselves way, you know,
(22:28):
and doing that work. And I think it's really beautiful.
Speaker 2 (22:31):
It is beautiful. You're right. But it's always because the
husband gets a girlfriend.
Speaker 3 (22:35):
I mean, but like you said earlier, it's deeper than that.
It's so much deeper. I don't think it's that just
because of that. I think there was, like like you said,
decades of not sleeping together, roommate like that goes. I
have had that same experience, except not even close to
as long as those people have been married. You know.
That's feeling of stagnant, like that stagnation feeling. I am out,
(22:57):
I'm out fast, I can't be in it.
Speaker 2 (23:00):
You're right that it is much better. And with these
communities that we have in this area, there's so many
activities and new friend groups and support groups and any
new beginning or a chance that finding yourself is worth it.
Speaker 3 (23:14):
I agree.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Is it hard for you to be a divorce lawyer?
Speaker 2 (23:21):
It's not. And I can't really explain the reason, because
most of my colleagues find it to be incredibly difficult
on a personal level. They take the feelings home with
them and I've just never been like that, and I
don't really know the reason. I'm just suited for the job.
I see it as a puzzle. I really, really I
could be a life coach in another life. Although I'm
(23:44):
not trained for that. I really enjoy it and I've
as after thirty, I no longer work every hour of
the week. I have really good boundaries. All my clients
have my cell phone number. They appropriately I really like
my job. But if other divorce lawyers are telling you
(24:07):
the truth, I think I'm in the minority on that.
Speaker 3 (24:10):
How do you separate the emotion? Like, how do you
do that it.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Stays at the office. I really treat this as a
job that I like. I care about my clients. I
think they really care. I have wonderful clients. I'm very
realistic with people. You probably know divorce attorneys can treat
the job as making a lot of money, fighting a lot,
(24:34):
filing a lot of emotions, billing by the hour. The
more fighting, the sooner my kids get their college paid.
I mean, that's a reality of the job, and our
business model is saving people money, keeping the emotions in check.
I'm very realistic with them up front. We talk about
their goals, we talk about the law, we talk about
(24:56):
the process, we talk about mediation, and I our office
is trying to change the culture of divorce in Arizona,
and that's how I treat it.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Would you recommend a prenup for people that get married.
Speaker 2 (25:13):
I do recommend a prenup, and I don't think that
it should hold the stereotype of you're getting a prenup
and that's anti love, or if you're going to be together,
you don't need it. I think there are many benefits
to a prenup and anybody who's not twenty with nothing
(25:34):
should consider it.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Yeah, no, for sure. I guess my piece with the divorce,
just for my personal stuff is the fact that you know,
I pay my ex husband. I paid him a lump sum,
and I also pay him child support and I have
the kids seventy it's seventy thirty split. So I find
it I always get a little like frustrated when I
(25:56):
have conversations of just you know, because divorce and because
it kind of just brings up all those you know,
those feelings and that resentment and it's just it's just yuck.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
I don't like.
Speaker 3 (26:09):
I wish you would have planned a prenup.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
We had a post up, but the problem was my
divorce lawyer said it's not going to hold up in
court as well as a prenup, and he's like, he
technically can fight it and he could still technically win half,
you know, which my ex husband at the time was like,
I will never fight this, you know what I mean, which,
of course when we got divorced, he's like, I'm going
to fight this. But apparently again they the prenup will
(26:33):
always hold up. And then if is that right or wrong?
Prenup holds up better than post.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Up, that's exactly right.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
So that's why, you know, with that situation, it's uh,
I wish for sure I would have had signed a
prenup with him prenup, but you know, at the end
of the day, I still would be paying child support.
That is the law of with the things, and that's
you know, a whole other story.
Speaker 3 (26:57):
But feel free to tell me too off, But did
you sign one this time around?
Speaker 1 (27:02):
So we have never discussed that. We're still not going
to discuss that. But but you know, it was it
was a very long conversation. We had a lot of
conversation around it, and uh, I think it's really hard
for men to have that conversation, especially you know, my
husband is very old school and you know, did not
(27:26):
love the idea of it. And you know, whatever we
decided was a private matter, but it was something that
was very important to say. It was very important to
me because of how much was taken from my ex,
how much my ex husband took.
Speaker 2 (27:40):
I think you probably, even if you did or didn't
having that conversation, you were miles ahead of most people
because it's such a tough topic. If you two talked
it through and talked about all your assets and what
you think for the future, that's you're doing better than
a lot of people before they get married.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
So super But my my divorce attorney was definitely likes
you are have it like there's no like. He's like,
you are signing this, and I'm just like, Okay, I
hear you and I need to have we have to
have conversations. It's it's a conversation piece because I am
you know, old school and the fact that I do
believe in you know, love and a marriage actually lasting.
(28:22):
I you know, I didn't get it right this go around.
And that's why I love this podcast because this is
about you know, I do part two and you know, Cheryl,
I didn't get it right a couple of times. And Cheryl,
you know you didn't. We thought you got it right,
you know what I mean. But I think there's a
piece of that I do Part two that I that
I love and where you know, as sad as when
(28:43):
I asked you the question about you know, is it
hard for you? Because I believe that as much as
divorce makes me so sad, Cheryl, I've seen from watching
you on the outside of things you have, there's a
different aura about you now. You're happier, you're lighter, You've
like I see it from just watching your stories. And
(29:04):
I love that people have their next chapters and that
they get to fall in love again and find love
that they deserve and that suits them and that you know,
respects them. And so that is like so beautiful and
you've come into your own and like it's just it's
really beautiful to witness someone falling in love with themselves
for then that person to fall in love with them
(29:27):
and respect them the way that they deserve. So, you know,
I appreciate Kate you coming on and talking to us,
and you know, I just I look forward to all
the people that have their part too, Cheryl, yours is
coming up. See it's common, it's common. I feel the
glow up I do. I just I see it and
I love the lightness in you. You know, you've you've,
(29:47):
You've entered the lights.
Speaker 3 (29:49):
Definitely different from our last conversation.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
Yeah, Kate, thank you so much for coming on.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Thank you both.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Are you divorced? Navigating what your I Do Part two
could look like? I need some advice? Call us or
email us, follow us on socials. All the information will
be in the show notes. Make sure to rate and
review the podcast I Do Part two and iHeartRadio podcast
where falling in love is the main objective. Love you, Cheryl,
Love you,
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