December 26, 2024 • 40 mins
Cheryl, Kelly, and Alexia continue their conversation with divorce attorney Dennis Vetrano to unpack why women are divorcing more frequently.
Plus, why are single childless women the happiest?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Hey, guys, it's your celebrity mentor Cheryl Burke back again
with Alexia and Kelly, and we're going to dive back
into our conversation with divorce attorney Dennis Vitrano. What profession
has the highest divorce rate?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I find, uh, firefighters, lawns, they're so hot. I think
the service industry.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Is difficult, military, military, military.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
What about I would say finances, and you wouldn't say finance.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
I feel finance too. I think Look, I think with
my experience with the finance world is there they're just
like there is so much money and so much you know.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
The women put up with it. Well, yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Mean that's part of it too, a little bit.
Speaker 5 (01:00):
But I don't know if it's necessarily the money.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
But right now, like people know, these guys in finance
or women people in finance, people in finance are working
twenty two hours a day right.
Speaker 5 (01:09):
Now too, and you don't even know what this is
going to be.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
And I just think that the stress of that is
really obviously the firefighters as well. I'm just any like
super high stressful environment. I just to jump back to separation,
like I'm actually surprised by that because I would assume that.
Speaker 5 (01:28):
I mean, I understand the playball part of it.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
But I would assume that if sometimes people it's it's
an either or scenario.
Speaker 5 (01:34):
You're either like, okay, you've you've separated, you've been apart
from each other.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
You either miss each other, or you know you've been
separated and the other person, or you know, you're both
like seeing other people and then it's just over.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
So I thought that was actually interesting. I know, but
I feel like you because that's like my situation.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
I also think that maybe women it takes longer for
them to just get over it.
Speaker 6 (01:57):
Maybe I get this whole new era of women just
wanting to be alone and and you know, and healing
and just you know, self love and just I totally
get it.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
They do say that women who are alone, child free,
single women that they are the happiest population. Why do
you think that is?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
And the stat also says that they tend to live longer. Correct, Yeah, yeah,
we do.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
This is my third life. I'm already like one hundred
and fifty.
Speaker 6 (02:26):
I feel like men with one day age like they
really need the men that stay married. If that stay
married or have a companion, they live longer because us
women take care of them, thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
They don't know how they're on.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
And I was about to say, are you familiar with
the phrase man child? So so you get.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Yeah, it doesn't matter the age.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Of course, right, the mummy complex, it's a real thing.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
It's a real thing. How important is it emotionally and
legally to get divorced? I guess you know, you hear
a lot of people who takes so long to get divorced,
five years, all of that. So what is your take
on that.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Well, it's a couple of different things. I think that.
I think part of the reason why the divorce raised
rate has spiked, and part of the reason why I think,
you know, women are filing for divorce more frequently is
because they realize how short life is, and they realize
how important it is to be happy, and they realize
how important it is to model what a strong, meaningful,
(03:27):
fulfilling relationship should look like for their kids. Okay, So,
so to talk about how important that is mentally and emotionally,
it can't put a price tag on that, you know,
there's no And it's funny because the ladies that come
into my office that the vast majority of them like
I don't care about his retirement plan or whether he
(03:48):
takes the more expensive car. I care about my freedom,
my sanity, my happiness, and before that, all of those
mis typically comes number one my kids. So they're seeing that.
Speaker 6 (04:04):
And in your case, since you're a divorce lawyer, obviously
all the women that come in there are women that
are sharing these stories. You know, where they've probably been
in relationships with men that have been controlling that you know,
now they want, you know, their freedom and now they're
in a different stage in their lives and children, older,
et cetera. Obviously, these are the women that you're seeing.
Nobody's been happy in their relationship because that's why they're
(04:25):
there to see you and to fill for divorce.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
I mean also like coming from a divorce family, it
was not I'm grateful my mom got a divorce to
my father. I think it would have been so traumatic, right,
and it happened when I was two, but still too Really,
those are like vital years of a child's life, and
no matter if they can communicate it or not, you're
the body keeps a score and it is held in
(04:47):
their body and then it then reflects their dating pattern.
It's a freaking domino effect and no wonder like it is.
Of course you have to kind of change the environment
if it's toxic, because you can have kids around that
environment unless you want your kids to continue on that.
You know, generational trauma, as far as I'm concerned.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
The body keeps score. I like that. I'm going to
use that as long as you don't mind.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
Well, it's so funny because we were always talking about
generational but I love that. I mean, I think that's
really smart, the generational trauma. I think I think that's
something that people are sure down, you know, with one.
You know, you're seeing your role models and how they
respond and react. And that was another thing too, you know,
outside of just like the fundamentals of divorce, Like it's
(05:33):
you know, when Cheryl and I spoke about this, it's
just like she always asked me, like.
Speaker 5 (05:36):
How do you feel? And people don't ask you how
you feel after.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
You've gotten divorced or you're in the process of getting divorced.
It's kind of like when you say you're getting divorced,
they're like, oh wow, like you're just kind of some
kind of baller and it's not like no, no, no,
like I have real feelings and I'm traumatized and I
need to figure out how to move forward.
Speaker 5 (05:58):
And it took me so long to onto like you.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
Know, that's why one thing I hated about this the
word uncoupling. I just thought that was so like generic
and it's just so difficult.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
To you know when you're so used to it either zile.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
And you know, it's not the lifestyle, it's not the money.
It's just like you know, waking up with the person,
talking to the person and comfortable.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
It's comfortable plan.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
You know, Doc like you just say, we're saying before
like time does pass so quickly. I mean we've all,
like you know, seen so much happen, and it's just
like I'm just constantly now thinking to myself like how
do I feel?
Speaker 5 (06:40):
Every day, I'm like, how do I feel? How do
I feel?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
And it's funny, it's people ask you so many other things,
Like they want to talk about you know, they want
to ask what's going on with your divorce? They want
to talk about this.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Oh my god, can we talk about that?
Speaker 6 (06:52):
How people are so nosy you have to really block
out the noise because everyone has an opinion, of course,
you know, especially if you're a public person, you know,
like myself and Kelly and Share actually the three of us.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
So it's really hard.
Speaker 6 (07:06):
You have to, you know, just forget about everyone's opinion
because according to how they've lived their life.
Speaker 7 (07:11):
You know.
Speaker 6 (07:11):
I have friends that have put up with their husbands
cheating in them all their lives, and then they're the
first ones to say, oh, you can't put up with that.
Yet you've done it, you know what I mean, and
it was worth it to you, So, you know, I
feel like it it gets really really difficult to you know,
to be you know, who we are and have a
relationship these days, because you know, our lives are out there,
and I think that makes marriage so much more difficult,
(07:34):
you know. And that was my question. Do you do
you think there's no pressure on the idea of marriage.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
And that's why they fail.
Speaker 5 (07:41):
You know.
Speaker 6 (07:41):
I feel like everybody's just so caught up on like, okay,
like get married and what if it doesn't work?
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Like, so, how do you feel about that?
Speaker 6 (07:48):
Then most things will be considering, just like lifelong companionship
versus the traditional marriage.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I think.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Look, I think let's start by going back to one
thing that you mentioned. I think being in the public
eye is very real difficult when you're going through a
divorce process. Everybody has an opinion, everybody's weighing, and everybody's
watching you. But I think the best thing you can
do in those sorts of circumstances is surround yourself with
those people in your life who are going to ask
you the question exactly like you said, Kelly, are you okay,
(08:18):
and really givishit about what the answer is okay, really
care what your answer is, and not that they want
to judge, and not that they want to scuttle, but
and not that they want to tell you what you
should have done in the mistakes that you made or
judge you that they just want to listen to you
and really care about how you're doing.
Speaker 6 (08:35):
I mean, the thing is that the people that love
or protect you. Everybody has an opinion.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
But for people who really like what you were saying,
genuinely ask the question. There's not a lot out there,
you know, so maybe it's quality over quantity, right.
Speaker 6 (08:47):
They don't want to know how you feel. They want
to know like what's going on, like what's like what's
really going on? But yeah, right, I mean, I am lucky,
though I do have a lot of you know, friends
that are like my family.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
I don't actually I could say that I have. I
can count on one hand my friends if like seriously,
and for me, that's okay, and it's not again, it's
not about quantity. But since I've gotten sober for the
past six years, you know, and since I have continued
to work on myself and is so overused now the work.
(09:17):
But like it is what it is, it has you know,
I have actually asked out a lot of people because
it's not so much about them. I'm saying that I
for me, this is just everyone comes into your life
at a certain time in your life, I believe. And
then also we all evolve and sometimes it's together and
(09:38):
sometimes it's not same in a marriage and I can't
even judge that, like that's just human nature, you know.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, but even as you said before, I know you're
kidding a little bit, like I'm your only friend. But
here's here's my defense. If if you have one, one
good one, that's enough.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Yeah enough, And that takes a lot of effort too.
You know. It's a very relationship.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
It is.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
It's even interesting like when you're when you're going through
almost getting married, and then you break off that marriage.
Speaker 5 (10:08):
I mean being on.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
This podcast, as like I said before, has been so
cathartic for me because it's a safe place for me
to talk honestly. And you know, I wrote a letter
to my future husband.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
I saw that. Oh it made me cry.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
What does he look like? Kelly? How is he not
like what he looks like?
Speaker 6 (10:31):
No? No, no, not like not physically like for you?
What does he look like? Not physically, but like what
are the qualities that? What are the topics here?
Speaker 1 (10:40):
I was just joking someone.
Speaker 5 (10:43):
Who's very nurturing, like I need nurturing.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
People are always like saying to me how strong I am,
and actually I'm actually the opposite. I just project being strong,
just kind of like you know, Cheryl talks.
Speaker 6 (10:53):
About it's a defense like that too, and we're really
soft inside.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
I'm going to take care of it everybody, Yes, project everybody,
but actually I'm the one that never gets protected or
taken care of. So I would like someone strong emotionally
and someone who has a lot of you know, personal value,
like not just like who they are as a person
and like what they do, and just have a lot
(11:20):
of integrity, because that's something that after going through all
of these different, you know, situations for so long since
I got divorced. You know, I've just noticed that men,
a lot of men that I've you know, been around,
or they just have no personal value. And that was
something that I was always like honestly offended by.
Speaker 5 (11:40):
I just was like, you can't even like.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Stand personal value like self respect or like.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
Respect, and just like you know, it was always like
they would be like playing. It used to like a
lot of guys like play a victim role around me.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Oh god, I hate.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
That just because I'm projecting strength is not strong.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Like people will call me always.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Like she's just that means you're strong, Cheryl.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Dennis, you're such a good listener.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
Are you sing both of your ears?
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Dennis?
Speaker 2 (12:10):
This is but listen, honestly, this conversation we're having right now,
and we're talking about like hey, how we're sharing our
experiences and you know, talking back for than asking questions.
People listening to these podcasts need these podcasts. They need
to know what to do through the divorce process. They
need to know there's hope after the divorce process. They're
(12:31):
not alone, right.
Speaker 7 (12:32):
Yeah, Okay, So then I have a question, what do
people need to know in order to make the divorce
like the smooth now that you're saying that such thing, right,
(12:53):
a smooth divorce.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yes, of course, I think divorces are difficult. So so again,
I know I'm full of stories, but I represented someone
years ago. This woman was at a point where she
loathed her husband with every fiber of her being, couldn't
stand him. Case took longer than anticipated into court. Now,
(13:18):
you know, the way you do settlements and divorce cases
is you either do a written contract or you will
do it on the record in the courthouse in front
of the judge and actually say orally yet like, yes,
this is our agreement, this is what we did, blah
blah blah, and they do what we call an elocution,
which means you swear them and say, you know, nobody's
threatened you, you know, coerced you into reaching this agreement.
And when they said, okay, we're issuing a judgment of divorce,
(13:39):
you're divorced, my client just sat at the table and
openly wept, cried hysterically. And I think to a certain
degree it was about being relieved to be through the process.
But to a certain degree, like you were saying before Kelly,
it's every aspect of your life is going to change.
(14:02):
You wake up next to the person or you don't.
Your situation with your kids has changed, where you live
may change. So many things are changing. All the things
you came to know as your life will now change.
So when you say yes, let's say we have the
most amicable divorce possible, it's a mediation, we reach an agreement.
Everybody's happy still, So your sense of normalcy is going
(14:26):
to change one hundred and eighty degrees, even in the
most amicable divorce. So it's a very stressful process no
matter how you look at it, even when it's quote
unquote easy right. And I think I think the biggest
thing people need to do through the process is to
prepare themselves before the divorce. What you do in the
(14:46):
divorce process is important, but I think it's more important
to prepare yourself in advance. And when I say prepare
yourself in advance, you know we talked about that one
person you can count on. You know, you need to
have a support system, which which will include a therapist,
which will include friends. And I always say, sometimes you
want that friend who's going to kick you in the
(15:06):
ass when you need it, and you want that friend
who's going to be a shoulder to cry and give
you a hug when you need it.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
That's what therapists are. They're not supposed to be biased,
right like aramists two.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
But I think sometimes, you know, friends and support system
do something slightly different.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
What because I didn't find what well?
Speaker 2 (15:25):
I mean listen, Like I said, everybody's situation is different.
But I think a therapist are going to listen, but
they're going to give you a professional eye. It's different
than than your best friend.
Speaker 5 (15:35):
It's just that it's going to sound strange.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
But right before I broke off my engagement, I started
working out with a new trainer and he was pushing
me so hard. And right before I was going to
be getting h getting married, Like, I was drinking. I'm
not a big drinker, and I was drinking every single
night a lot, not I mean a lot, like not
thousands of drinks, but I would definitely drink, you know,
(15:58):
definitely two or three glasses of wine at night, and
wasn't sleeping a lot, was taking melotonin every night and
just you know, not eating a lot, and not like
trying to fit into a dress or anything. I just
was like trying to navigate that I had to be
up in the morning because I had to work, because
I had to make money, but I need at the
(16:18):
end of the day, I needed to like figure out
like how I could. You know, Sharyl and I talk
about this like numb myself and I started working out
with this trainer right before I was getting married, a
new trainer. This is like maybe a like two weeks before,
and the way that he was training me was so
taxing that I'm going to literally start crying, Like it
(16:42):
was so taxing that my whole body was just like
releasing from everything, and I was just like I can't
do this.
Speaker 5 (16:51):
I just can't do this.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
And it wasn't the exercise, it was that my whole
body was saying, you need your body needs to Like
I mean, Cheryl, you're a dancers, you want you understand this.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yeah, no, it's true. The body keeps a score like
you're you're letting trauma release, trauma off your body exactly.
Speaker 5 (17:08):
It was a trauma release. And so I suggest anyone
who's getting.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Through a divorce to to enlist if you can, if
you can afford higher a trainer, something different like whatever
whatever it is.
Speaker 5 (17:25):
Yeah, take a dance class.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
You got to move your body, do something for yourself
and move your body. I agree. Literally, it was.
Speaker 5 (17:34):
An absolute game changer. And then I remember.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
After the day after I had called it off, I
my whole my whole head. I was having these chronic
headaches and my whole head was just clear.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
I didn't have and I mean.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
With it like that, it was just feel stagnant energy
anywhere gone.
Speaker 5 (17:57):
Yeah, it was like that's done, We're done.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
So I think that that's really important outside of obviously
coming to see you, Dennis, but just to have someone
who is physically helping you, like move and just have
that kinetic energy and not that you know, frenetic energy.
Speaker 5 (18:15):
That was one thing that really was a game.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Changer for me. How do you not take the emotions
from us, like from not us, but from your clients, Like,
how do you not take that home with you?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I think the way I do that best is to
make sure that I'm giving the right advice to people.
I mean, it is, it is a taxing area of law,
but I think if you approach it with care and
concern and not like you're just you know, I say
that our industry has become files on a conveyor belt.
It's become hey, this is what I did. Like we
said when we at the outset, Oh hey, you got
(18:46):
to make a living somehow are you going to make money?
And you're gonna you know, it's going to be.
Speaker 5 (18:49):
A fire, you know.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
And the course system too. So okay, we've got this couple,
we're gonna we're gonna divide the assets, are gonna get
the car going to house. Okay, we're gonna sign judgment doors, Okay, goodbye,
And you're like, what the hell my life is in
a shambles this whole process because this area of law,
there's so many emotions mixed in with law, so different
than any other area of law. That's what makes it
(19:11):
so different.
Speaker 6 (19:12):
Agree, and there's children involved, there's a family involved in children.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
I could never do it, honestly.
Speaker 6 (19:17):
It's it's I mean, I really admire respect like what
you do, even though you're you know, sometimes it doesn't
work out for the man or for the woman, whatever
it may be.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
But it's just a really tough specialty because family law
involving children.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Yeah, thank you. I want to give advice, that's like,
you know, listen, when you come into my office, I
want to make sure the divorce is where you're going.
I want to make sure that you're absolutely certain that's
where you want to go. I want to make sure
you if you need counseling, that you have a counselor involved,
that if you know you're seeking out friends and family
to support you, you're thinking out the logistics of it.
(19:52):
I mean, I can't make you know. Listen, there are
things that Remember your lawyer. And here's an important point
to make. I think when people think of divorce, they think, oh,
I get a lawyer. I'm good, I get a divorce lawyer.
Your divorce lawyer is going to give you legal advice,
and then you're gonna leave their office and they're gonna
and if they're a good one, they're gonna do the
best they can to represent you.
Speaker 6 (20:12):
And sometimes it's not even such good advice. By the way,
what are your respect right right?
Speaker 2 (20:17):
It depends on you.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
You can't have to go home and try to manage
and navigate just saying but yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Yeah, but Kelly, what you just said right there. Then
then we send you home to go home and navigate,
and you're gonna do everything you can to shield your
kids from the process like you did, and you're gonna
put your kids first and put yourself second. And then
what we want you to do is try to find
a way to put yourself first. Try to find a
way to get yourself through the process where you're intact
(20:42):
when you come out the other side. And that's those
are the things that we can't help you with.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
But didn't they by calling you? Didn't they put themselves first?
Speaker 2 (20:50):
You know they did? And I think that's a good point.
I think that's the starting point, but I think it
goes so much deeper than that.
Speaker 6 (20:56):
But even so, don't you think if the woman is
going to see you, she's already made up her mind.
I mean, it could be difficult, but I believe that
she's the one that initiates it, and she goes to
see it, it's something that she already wanted. So, like,
I don't know why don't want to continue this because
I mean, I mean, I'm a woman, but I know
of a lot of women that just want to like
drag out the divorce.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
I don't know if it's because of the money.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
I'll be straight up. My divorce attorneys asked me those
questions like, are you know what is go? I wanted
to make sure that I wasn't reacting in yet instead
responding right, so like this was, you know, something that
we had long discussions about. It wasn't like it wasn't
a let's just go you know, No, you know, he
appreciated the fact that I've been therapy since I was
(21:39):
literally four years old, and that I've been with this
last one that I'm still with for fifteen years consistently.
So it's like, you know, this wasn't a pure reaction.
This was over time obviously, and then there's a time
when it's just no longer working, So what do I do?
What's the next step?
Speaker 2 (21:58):
The vast majority of those cases absolutely right, in fact,
the overwhelming majority. However, you're having conversations with clients and
these consultations, not like you're a lawyer trying to get
a case to put their case on a compayor belt
and make money off of it, I hope, not trying
to have a conversation with clients like you give a
crap about what's happening in their life and them individually.
(22:19):
So that that's again I think that's that's that's hard
to find focus it is and that's a shame.
Speaker 5 (22:24):
And you know what the.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
Big what I'm hearing is like the big void is
that there's information of like how to get divorced, and
there's information of why to get divorced, and there's information
of you know, the the unraveling or the finance or
the settlement agreements, the contract, but there's no next chapter advice.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
That's what we're here for.
Speaker 5 (22:46):
Girl.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Dennis, are you working on your new book?
Speaker 2 (22:49):
I am, Actually I feel like.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
You need to write a book, but there isn't only
one where you'll.
Speaker 6 (22:54):
Have both the legal and then the therapeutics. So that
could be you know, you definitely have the audience.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
Like day one you signed your agreement, you're divorced. What
do you do now?
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Don't go have a divorce party? Like that's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
I think, Look, there's so much that the I mean,
you you touched on it, and Kelly, you're one hundred
percent right. It's the tip of the iceberg. And you're right, Cheryl,
it isn't one path only for one person. But I
think for people, we need to do the best we
can as professionals in this space or people with experience
and having been through the process the podcast. Yeah, well,
(23:31):
right to get the word out because I tay. I
tell clients when they come into my office, like, Okay,
what I want you to do throughout the process? Consume information,
Listen to podcasts, talk to friends who've been through it,
Watch Instagram shows, watch things on TikTok, listen to videos.
Does it mean that everything they tell you is one
(23:51):
hundred percent accurate? No, But as you gain more information,
what you gain is calm and that's the most valuable
thing you can have through process.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
Okay, speaking of I'll come, how come there are these
these divorces or these you know that last like five
seven years?
Speaker 5 (24:10):
Like what what is the value of that?
Speaker 3 (24:13):
You just want to get back at the person.
Speaker 6 (24:15):
You despite the person, because I know those divorces and
it's ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Could it be money situation? It could be situational though
in that sense where like they have like if they
wait a certain amount of years, they could pay less.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Alexia just answered it. She got it right from my experience.
Speaker 6 (24:29):
Yeah, it's despite of course, it's a spite. They want
to spite them. And what do you hit the what
do you hit the man with the money?
Speaker 1 (24:36):
It's like, why do people go back to abusive relationships.
Speaker 6 (24:41):
No where do you hit them the money. That's where
it hurts. The men don't have the cunities and their
emotions that we do for us. It's like, Okay, you
can take away our car, but don't take away like,
you know, something that's meaningful to us. You know, maybe
like a picture, an art or something that meant something
to us when we were together with my children.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
I told judges on a regular basis when.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
It get a mend box or whatever it was they did.
I mean vice versa.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Can I think and vice versa? Listen. I tell judges
and opposing counsel in these cases and clients regularly. I say,
most of these divorces are math problems. When it comes
to the finances. There is nothing more than a math
not well and the and the prenup keeps it. The
prenup keeps it clearer. But generally speaking, at least in
(25:25):
New York State, it's pretty straightforward. A lot of the
issues what what tends to complicate things? Oh way, there
are remnants of a broken relationship that you never resolved
for yourself and feel like you need to you need
to get like like you know, she always did this
during their relationship and now and I never really saw
this ass and now I'm gonna figure it out. I've
(25:47):
gotta let go of that stuff.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Let go and let God. Folks, let go and let God. Dennis,
we can talk to you all damn day. Thank you
so much, so much.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yes, listen, I'm hearing your stories though. It's amazing. I
just love it.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
When I get married again, I'll make sure to move
to New York and hire you for my next divorce.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
I think. Listen, if you haven't heard this before, the
fact that you've made it through the divorce process intact
says to me, you're incredibly brave because it's so difficult
to have that level of courage to get through that.
People don't realize how difficult it is.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
It's so difficult that I'm a virgin, I'm born again,
and I am single for the rest of my life
because I'm loving it.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
But you love you. That's the key, that is true,
That's all that matters, that will that will take you everywhere.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
I love now, you love you, You love you, and
I love you. We're all one, okay, folks, we're all one.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Good to talk to you, ladies.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
We know you're good when you can handle three strong women.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
His wife is a strong woman too strong.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yes, my mother in law and my mom and top
of the craft. My wife is she She's a She's
a top strong, willed, successful, confident lady. And I wouldn't
have it any other way.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
So, now that you're saying that, do you think the
marriage is last longer when the woman is a strong
woman like that or a weak woman. I always have
the right partner.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Only if your mother was strong, only if like Seriously.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
I always thought that because I was a big personality,
very confident person very strong willed, I needed somebody who
was gonna kind of like acquiesce to me. And what
I realized over time I'm fifty three years old. Now
what I realized over time, Oh thank you when I
met my wife is I need the opposite of that.
I need someone who inspires me, who matches my energy,
(27:49):
who I can look up to, who I don't feel
like needs to live in my shadows. Sometimes I live
in hers, sometimes she lives in mind and we stand
together with us.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
And I that you are you're aware of that is amazing, amazing.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
My wife is pretty amazing.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
So I'm very lucky, so I in her next We'll
see Yes, thank you, Dennis. Happy holidays Hannis by Dennis.
(28:24):
What do you guys think of Dennis? Isn't he right?
Speaker 6 (28:26):
He's great, He's great, He's I really enjoyed talking to him.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
What did you learn?
Speaker 6 (28:33):
Well, I learned that apparently you have to be prepared.
I was like, what, Like, I never thought that. Okay, yeah,
I guess I've always been caught off guard, and so
that was basically for me, like the most striking thing
to listen to was that that you need to be prepared.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
At first, he didn't agree with that, you know, and.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
I still kind of don't because that's not have the
way that I've lived in my life.
Speaker 6 (29:00):
I hear you, and then some people will say, well,
how has it worked out for you? Right?
Speaker 3 (29:03):
I have like some friends to say, Okay, well how's
it worked out for you? But you know, I do
everything from my.
Speaker 6 (29:07):
Heart and I know no, I would feel bad as
a person if if I were to do something like that.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
You know, however, the type of person that I like
to sit down and I like to help the conversation.
Speaker 6 (29:19):
If you're my friend, if you're my lover, if you're
sure whatever you are.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
That's ideal. That's ideal. But intellectually, do you understand it?
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Oh, one hundred percent. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (29:29):
You have to be prepared for everything in life, you know, right,
So that's the most important thing that I took.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
So ladies, prepare.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
I am for my next failed marriage. I'm kidding.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Stop stop saying that, Cheryl. I'm not gonna lot Cheryl
say that anymore.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Hey, it's all good. I can joke because I'm not
even dating. We're good, Okay, this.
Speaker 5 (29:49):
Podcast we're talking about divorce.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
But I really, my my biggest takeaway from this entire
moment obviously just like being able to like talk and
hear the stories. I love that so much. Just brings
me like so much peace, But just kind of like
the thought of you know what it is that, what
does that?
Speaker 5 (30:09):
What are those next steps after you get divorced? Like
I think that's most.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
It's like who wants to get married again?
Speaker 7 (30:15):
Right?
Speaker 5 (30:16):
Wanting?
Speaker 4 (30:16):
It's like it's you know, it's like one, it's like
kind of like when you're in the divorce. What he
was what Dennis was saying is that people are asking questions,
are coming to see him. There's a lot of energy
that's into the contract. But the minute that contract is
over and those phone calls are over and the conversations
are over, and the fighting is over on both sides.
Speaker 5 (30:36):
Like where do people? What do people do? What are
the next steps?
Speaker 1 (30:39):
I think it's sitting in the uncomfterble feelings. It's feeling
the feelings, but feeling them in a way where you
have to understand in general. God, I wish I could
take my own advice, but like, this is what I'm
going to be. This is my goal for twenty twenty
five is to be able to not because I'm addicted
to productivity now, Kelly, you know that, but like so
(31:00):
so with that comes me numbing. That's my new numbing device.
So it used to be people, it used to be alcohol,
and I'm so bur so. Now what do I do
to numb and not have to sit in my shit?
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Is work?
Speaker 1 (31:11):
I just work. My to do list is so long,
but I'm gonna have to because I don't want to
one die early or to check myself into the nearest
mental institution. I have to feel my feelings and knowing
that feelings come and go like the waves of the ocean.
Literally is what is going to help me get through it.
And I think the sooner you feel, the sooner I
(31:32):
won't be held in your body. And God knows what
that causes as far as diseases go, or sickness or whatever.
But like, it is so important to just wherever safe
space you feel like, and it may not include other people.
This is why I ghosted myself literally from everybody when
I moved out of LA because I know that I
(31:52):
can't feel with other people are surrounding me, let alone
feel alone? Right, Like, so how am I ever going
to feel if I don't really force that?
Speaker 4 (32:00):
And you know, it's interesting that you said that, because
that's something that's been happening to me and before or
if I was ever in a situation that was uncomfortable.
Speaker 5 (32:07):
Whether it was work related or life related, I would just.
Speaker 4 (32:11):
Push those feelings down. And now I'm just very open
to everything.
Speaker 5 (32:16):
And because we've been.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
Having these conversations now for you know, for the last
couple of months, and you know, I'll be with clients
and I can feel like getting overwhelmed, Like it's like
I can feel that I'm going to start to cry.
Speaker 5 (32:29):
And I don't know why.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Oh that's great, but I'm actually it's great. That's good. No,
it's good.
Speaker 5 (32:35):
I'm actually okay with it.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
I'm like, and you don't need to know why. Who cares?
Speaker 5 (32:39):
And I don't know why, And I'm just like, I'm
actually okay with it. And it just feels good. It
feels good to feel.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Good and like good to feel good inside.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
You know what's so fascinating. I still stop myself from crying.
It's like it wasn't it's I have to untrain that
part of my brain because crying, to me, it's like
it's the scariest thing when I'm not present with it,
meaning like it's not scary obviously, I know that in
my brain. But I've always stopped myself from crying. It's
it's interesting, It's okay.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Sometimes it's good just to let it out. It's okay.
Speaker 6 (33:13):
I mean we all have different like outlets, you know,
we all deal with things differently.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Yeah, I like to just be a sarcastic bitch, but
I don't know that's my version that.
Speaker 5 (33:24):
The warmest human.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Oh my god, I totally related to you, Kelly. When
You're like, people think I'm so confident in this hard
I've got the wall of China. Now if you could
break my brick wall of China that we're then you're
you deserve self, you deserve the time together because it
is a defense mechanism for me. But I get it,
like I get approached by people who are like so intimidated,
(33:47):
like by who like you? Who are you talking to?
Speaker 3 (33:51):
You know?
Speaker 1 (33:52):
But I do have a resting bitch face, so that helps.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
Oh you do not that is not smiling and you're
always like you're just a warm human.
Speaker 5 (33:59):
I think that's how I see you.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Thank you, and same with you, by the way, thank you.
It's just you know, they're not ready for us. That's why, Yeah,
we need to own our space and take up the space.
Speaker 6 (34:12):
I feel like, just meant today, they just they don't
want they don't want to They don't have a commitment,
you know, they just don't want the commitment. Yeah, and
you know, and if you're committed to yourself, like and
being better and just you know, growing and getting stronger
and you know you're doing things that are gratifying to you,
it's like you really don't eat men anymore. I mean really,
it's like if you I.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
Don't want to get to the point why I don't
eat men anymore because you know, like.
Speaker 6 (34:37):
Well, me neither, I mean none, That's what I'm saying,
me neither. But I'm just saying that society.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Can look at it, look at look at your Instagram feed,
everything is about you.
Speaker 6 (34:46):
How are women and self care and said love and like,
so that's what I was saying.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
So it's like it's really hard.
Speaker 4 (34:53):
Actually, I have an amazing twin brother, I had an
unbelievable father, Like, I have a lot of admiration. So
I don't why I want to feel like I'm alone
on an island anymore because I've been on my own island,
Alexia for so long, like I literally have been like
it's it's it's I'm done. I don't want to do
that anymore. I want to feel good, I said, Like
(35:14):
I saying I want to continue feeling good about feeling
good and I and I want to be open to
that right person who's there and whether he sees me
walking across the street because I'm smiling because I'm actually
like just genuinely happy or wherever or however.
Speaker 5 (35:30):
But you know, I do feel like it's an energy thing.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
I know that sounds like so like no, no, but
it's true. Good energy trucks.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
What do you wait, what do you mean? You're done
being on an island?
Speaker 5 (35:43):
I'm done with me.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
I don't say that out loud, because then you're tracking
attract You're attracting desperation. Don't do that. You're not alone,
You're not done.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
No, I know, but I'm saying that I put myself
on that island, just like you were saying that you
go everybody like me on an island?
Speaker 1 (35:59):
No, me too. You live in New York. So should
we try and like rie fifty to fifty? Yeah, I know,
but like I'm also alone in ghosting people, and I'm
ready for human connection. But this is the problem I'm
picky now with Like before it was just more bodies,
more bodies, more bodies, Like I feel like the friends.
Speaker 6 (36:18):
The more time you're by yourself, you get piggier. And
that's like I feel like a lot of my friends
has happened too. They're so selective, you know, and they're
so good with like managing their time and what they want.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
You don't even realize it.
Speaker 6 (36:30):
Like for you, you know, it's been two or three
years whatever, and you're so good with yourself.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
And you don't need that. But when you're not there,
like I'm not there.
Speaker 6 (36:37):
I don't know that I ever will be there because
I for me, people are important, like I have a
lot of people in my life, and you know, I
have friends and and you know I'm you know, young
and old. It's just for me, it's it's part of
my life. I don't care here you could ever be
in that island by myself, Like, honestly, I can't.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Well, it's just it's a choice. It's a choice, right
like and by way to each their own. Absolutely, there's
so many different ways. Holly, Let's have a zoom friendship. Okay,
I'm so down for that. I have my own Zoom account.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
I love you girls. A week on you too. I
really love talking to both of you. You can call
me whenever you want. We'll keep in touch. Yes, please
tell I feel we all help. Yes, I will do that.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
And if you see, if there's any hot dudes, you know,
holler girls.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Yeah, but you know in Miami it's really hard to
find men here.
Speaker 6 (37:30):
Really, but oh my god, everybody, Well there's hot people here,
but I mean it's so fake and transitional.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
The correct transition. It's like, I.
Speaker 6 (37:41):
Don't know that you can find there's like twenty five
women for each guy, and they're all for the same guy.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
It's really girls. The guys here are so entitled and in.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
La by the way, mm hmmm. You know what this
whole world. I wish I was a lesbian, but I
don't like girls.
Speaker 6 (37:59):
You know.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
Oh, that's that's what it is.
Speaker 6 (38:01):
I'm surprised there's not for lesbians, honestly, after having these
conversations about men.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
Surprising.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
I mean, I love girls, but you know what I'm saying,
I've tried. It just doesn't know doesn't tickle my pickle.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
How about you, Kelly? This is another episode?
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Yeah, it's another episode.
Speaker 4 (38:18):
I just again, like I just really, I know that
I'm going to have this amazing love story.
Speaker 5 (38:23):
I do.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
I know we're gonna be there with you, Kelly.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
We're going to write a book about it and it's gonna.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
You know, I love that you believe I love Kelly.
So why And that's why, Like I could go through
all you.
Speaker 6 (38:36):
Know, people would be like, oh my god, but aren't
you like because other women will will will be that way.
It will be like why are how are you still
open to love? Because you know what, and I always will.
Nobody's going to take that away from me.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Good for you.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
Love. I'm in love with love. I loved overrated.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Just kidding, I know.
Speaker 6 (38:53):
I mean they're different, right, No, I know, but I
get what you say, you know, but with love, he's
pain awesome, you know, you know, with joy comes sadness.
How do you know sadness if you don't know joy?
So it's very complicated.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
You're right, But it's about my fear. It's my fear
is so so high as far as like wanting not
wanting to get hurt again, that I.
Speaker 6 (39:13):
Am protecting you, and of course, yeah you damn it.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
Girls, we love you. You're going to be just fine.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Oh thank you. It's so good to see you after
it's been over a decade. So good to see you.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
Happy here to see you.
Speaker 4 (39:29):
We wish you all like the healthiest and happiest holiday
and good feelings and good vibes.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
And I'll see you on your island. I'm going to
come to your island, Miami, and hell yeah, I love Miami.
Bye girls, Happy holidays, holidays. I just love talking to
these women, Alexia and Kelly. They're such just strong independent
(39:56):
women who have gone through divorce. And it just makes
me feel like I'm not alone. But do you guys
have any questions about divorce maybe or are you looking
for advice now that your relationship or marriage is over.
Make sure to call us or email us, and follow
us on all social platforms and the information will be
in the show notes, so make sure to rate and
review the podcast. I Do Part Two is an iHeartRadio
(40:19):
podcast where falling in love is the main objective.
Hey, guys, it's your celebrity mentor Cheryl Burke back again
with Alexia and Kelly, and we're going to dive back
into our conversation with divorce attorney Dennis Vitrano. What profession
has the highest divorce rate?
Speaker 2 (00:27):
I find, uh, firefighters, lawns, they're so hot. I think
the service industry.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Is difficult, military, military, military.
Speaker 4 (00:40):
What about I would say finances, and you wouldn't say finance.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
I feel finance too. I think Look, I think with
my experience with the finance world is there they're just
like there is so much money and so much you know.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
The women put up with it. Well, yeah, I.
Speaker 2 (00:58):
Mean that's part of it too, a little bit.
Speaker 5 (01:00):
But I don't know if it's necessarily the money.
Speaker 4 (01:02):
But right now, like people know, these guys in finance
or women people in finance, people in finance are working
twenty two hours a day right.
Speaker 5 (01:09):
Now too, and you don't even know what this is
going to be.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
And I just think that the stress of that is
really obviously the firefighters as well. I'm just any like
super high stressful environment. I just to jump back to separation,
like I'm actually surprised by that because I would assume that.
Speaker 5 (01:28):
I mean, I understand the playball part of it.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
But I would assume that if sometimes people it's it's
an either or scenario.
Speaker 5 (01:34):
You're either like, okay, you've you've separated, you've been apart
from each other.
Speaker 4 (01:38):
You either miss each other, or you know you've been
separated and the other person, or you know, you're both
like seeing other people and then it's just over.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
So I thought that was actually interesting. I know, but
I feel like you because that's like my situation.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
I also think that maybe women it takes longer for
them to just get over it.
Speaker 6 (01:57):
Maybe I get this whole new era of women just
wanting to be alone and and you know, and healing
and just you know, self love and just I totally
get it.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
They do say that women who are alone, child free,
single women that they are the happiest population. Why do
you think that is?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
And the stat also says that they tend to live longer. Correct, Yeah, yeah,
we do.
Speaker 1 (02:23):
This is my third life. I'm already like one hundred
and fifty.
Speaker 6 (02:26):
I feel like men with one day age like they
really need the men that stay married. If that stay
married or have a companion, they live longer because us
women take care of them, thank you.
Speaker 1 (02:38):
They don't know how they're on.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
And I was about to say, are you familiar with
the phrase man child? So so you get.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
Yeah, it doesn't matter the age.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
Of course, right, the mummy complex, it's a real thing.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
It's a real thing. How important is it emotionally and
legally to get divorced? I guess you know, you hear
a lot of people who takes so long to get divorced,
five years, all of that. So what is your take
on that.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Well, it's a couple of different things. I think that.
I think part of the reason why the divorce raised
rate has spiked, and part of the reason why I think,
you know, women are filing for divorce more frequently is
because they realize how short life is, and they realize
how important it is to be happy, and they realize
how important it is to model what a strong, meaningful,
(03:27):
fulfilling relationship should look like for their kids. Okay, So,
so to talk about how important that is mentally and emotionally,
it can't put a price tag on that, you know,
there's no And it's funny because the ladies that come
into my office that the vast majority of them like
I don't care about his retirement plan or whether he
(03:48):
takes the more expensive car. I care about my freedom,
my sanity, my happiness, and before that, all of those
mis typically comes number one my kids. So they're seeing that.
Speaker 6 (04:04):
And in your case, since you're a divorce lawyer, obviously
all the women that come in there are women that
are sharing these stories. You know, where they've probably been
in relationships with men that have been controlling that you know,
now they want, you know, their freedom and now they're
in a different stage in their lives and children, older,
et cetera. Obviously, these are the women that you're seeing.
Nobody's been happy in their relationship because that's why they're
(04:25):
there to see you and to fill for divorce.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
I mean also like coming from a divorce family, it
was not I'm grateful my mom got a divorce to
my father. I think it would have been so traumatic, right,
and it happened when I was two, but still too Really,
those are like vital years of a child's life, and
no matter if they can communicate it or not, you're
the body keeps a score and it is held in
(04:47):
their body and then it then reflects their dating pattern.
It's a freaking domino effect and no wonder like it is.
Of course you have to kind of change the environment
if it's toxic, because you can have kids around that
environment unless you want your kids to continue on that.
You know, generational trauma, as far as I'm concerned.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
The body keeps score. I like that. I'm going to
use that as long as you don't mind.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
Well, it's so funny because we were always talking about
generational but I love that. I mean, I think that's
really smart, the generational trauma. I think I think that's
something that people are sure down, you know, with one.
You know, you're seeing your role models and how they
respond and react. And that was another thing too, you know,
outside of just like the fundamentals of divorce, Like it's
(05:33):
you know, when Cheryl and I spoke about this, it's
just like she always asked me, like.
Speaker 5 (05:36):
How do you feel? And people don't ask you how
you feel after.
Speaker 4 (05:40):
You've gotten divorced or you're in the process of getting divorced.
It's kind of like when you say you're getting divorced,
they're like, oh wow, like you're just kind of some
kind of baller and it's not like no, no, no,
like I have real feelings and I'm traumatized and I
need to figure out how to move forward.
Speaker 5 (05:58):
And it took me so long to onto like you.
Speaker 4 (06:01):
Know, that's why one thing I hated about this the
word uncoupling. I just thought that was so like generic
and it's just so difficult.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
To you know when you're so used to it either zile.
Speaker 4 (06:15):
And you know, it's not the lifestyle, it's not the money.
It's just like you know, waking up with the person,
talking to the person and comfortable.
Speaker 1 (06:23):
It's comfortable plan.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
You know, Doc like you just say, we're saying before
like time does pass so quickly. I mean we've all,
like you know, seen so much happen, and it's just
like I'm just constantly now thinking to myself like how
do I feel?
Speaker 5 (06:40):
Every day, I'm like, how do I feel? How do
I feel?
Speaker 2 (06:42):
And it's funny, it's people ask you so many other things,
Like they want to talk about you know, they want
to ask what's going on with your divorce? They want
to talk about this.
Speaker 3 (06:51):
Oh my god, can we talk about that?
Speaker 6 (06:52):
How people are so nosy you have to really block
out the noise because everyone has an opinion, of course,
you know, especially if you're a public person, you know,
like myself and Kelly and Share actually the three of us.
Speaker 3 (07:04):
So it's really hard.
Speaker 6 (07:06):
You have to, you know, just forget about everyone's opinion
because according to how they've lived their life.
Speaker 7 (07:11):
You know.
Speaker 6 (07:11):
I have friends that have put up with their husbands
cheating in them all their lives, and then they're the
first ones to say, oh, you can't put up with that.
Yet you've done it, you know what I mean, and
it was worth it to you, So, you know, I
feel like it it gets really really difficult to you know,
to be you know, who we are and have a
relationship these days, because you know, our lives are out there,
and I think that makes marriage so much more difficult,
(07:34):
you know. And that was my question. Do you do
you think there's no pressure on the idea of marriage.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
And that's why they fail.
Speaker 5 (07:41):
You know.
Speaker 6 (07:41):
I feel like everybody's just so caught up on like, okay,
like get married and what if it doesn't work?
Speaker 3 (07:46):
Like, so, how do you feel about that?
Speaker 6 (07:48):
Then most things will be considering, just like lifelong companionship
versus the traditional marriage.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
I think.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Look, I think let's start by going back to one
thing that you mentioned. I think being in the public
eye is very real difficult when you're going through a
divorce process. Everybody has an opinion, everybody's weighing, and everybody's
watching you. But I think the best thing you can
do in those sorts of circumstances is surround yourself with
those people in your life who are going to ask
you the question exactly like you said, Kelly, are you okay,
(08:18):
and really givishit about what the answer is okay, really
care what your answer is, and not that they want
to judge, and not that they want to scuttle, but
and not that they want to tell you what you
should have done in the mistakes that you made or
judge you that they just want to listen to you
and really care about how you're doing.
Speaker 6 (08:35):
I mean, the thing is that the people that love
or protect you. Everybody has an opinion.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
But for people who really like what you were saying,
genuinely ask the question. There's not a lot out there,
you know, so maybe it's quality over quantity, right.
Speaker 6 (08:47):
They don't want to know how you feel. They want
to know like what's going on, like what's like what's
really going on? But yeah, right, I mean, I am lucky,
though I do have a lot of you know, friends
that are like my family.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
I don't actually I could say that I have. I
can count on one hand my friends if like seriously,
and for me, that's okay, and it's not again, it's
not about quantity. But since I've gotten sober for the
past six years, you know, and since I have continued
to work on myself and is so overused now the work.
(09:17):
But like it is what it is, it has you know,
I have actually asked out a lot of people because
it's not so much about them. I'm saying that I
for me, this is just everyone comes into your life
at a certain time in your life, I believe. And
then also we all evolve and sometimes it's together and
(09:38):
sometimes it's not same in a marriage and I can't
even judge that, like that's just human nature, you know.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Yeah, but even as you said before, I know you're
kidding a little bit, like I'm your only friend. But
here's here's my defense. If if you have one, one
good one, that's enough.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Yeah enough, And that takes a lot of effort too.
You know. It's a very relationship.
Speaker 2 (10:01):
It is.
Speaker 4 (10:02):
It's even interesting like when you're when you're going through
almost getting married, and then you break off that marriage.
Speaker 5 (10:08):
I mean being on.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
This podcast, as like I said before, has been so
cathartic for me because it's a safe place for me
to talk honestly. And you know, I wrote a letter
to my future husband.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
I saw that. Oh it made me cry.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
What does he look like? Kelly? How is he not
like what he looks like?
Speaker 6 (10:31):
No? No, no, not like not physically like for you?
What does he look like? Not physically, but like what
are the qualities that? What are the topics here?
Speaker 1 (10:40):
I was just joking someone.
Speaker 5 (10:43):
Who's very nurturing, like I need nurturing.
Speaker 4 (10:46):
People are always like saying to me how strong I am,
and actually I'm actually the opposite. I just project being strong,
just kind of like you know, Cheryl talks.
Speaker 6 (10:53):
About it's a defense like that too, and we're really
soft inside.
Speaker 4 (10:59):
I'm going to take care of it everybody, Yes, project everybody,
but actually I'm the one that never gets protected or
taken care of. So I would like someone strong emotionally
and someone who has a lot of you know, personal value,
like not just like who they are as a person
and like what they do, and just have a lot
(11:20):
of integrity, because that's something that after going through all
of these different, you know, situations for so long since
I got divorced. You know, I've just noticed that men,
a lot of men that I've you know, been around,
or they just have no personal value. And that was
something that I was always like honestly offended by.
Speaker 5 (11:40):
I just was like, you can't even like.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
Stand personal value like self respect or like.
Speaker 4 (11:45):
Respect, and just like you know, it was always like
they would be like playing. It used to like a
lot of guys like play a victim role around me.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
Oh god, I hate.
Speaker 4 (11:54):
That just because I'm projecting strength is not strong.
Speaker 1 (11:59):
Like people will call me always.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Like she's just that means you're strong, Cheryl.
Speaker 1 (12:05):
Dennis, you're such a good listener.
Speaker 5 (12:06):
Are you sing both of your ears?
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Dennis?
Speaker 2 (12:10):
This is but listen, honestly, this conversation we're having right now,
and we're talking about like hey, how we're sharing our
experiences and you know, talking back for than asking questions.
People listening to these podcasts need these podcasts. They need
to know what to do through the divorce process. They
need to know there's hope after the divorce process. They're
(12:31):
not alone, right.
Speaker 7 (12:32):
Yeah, Okay, So then I have a question, what do
people need to know in order to make the divorce
like the smooth now that you're saying that such thing, right,
(12:53):
a smooth divorce.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Yes, of course, I think divorces are difficult. So so again,
I know I'm full of stories, but I represented someone
years ago. This woman was at a point where she
loathed her husband with every fiber of her being, couldn't
stand him. Case took longer than anticipated into court. Now,
(13:18):
you know, the way you do settlements and divorce cases
is you either do a written contract or you will
do it on the record in the courthouse in front
of the judge and actually say orally yet like, yes,
this is our agreement, this is what we did, blah
blah blah, and they do what we call an elocution,
which means you swear them and say, you know, nobody's
threatened you, you know, coerced you into reaching this agreement.
And when they said, okay, we're issuing a judgment of divorce,
(13:39):
you're divorced, my client just sat at the table and
openly wept, cried hysterically. And I think to a certain
degree it was about being relieved to be through the process.
But to a certain degree, like you were saying before Kelly,
it's every aspect of your life is going to change.
(14:02):
You wake up next to the person or you don't.
Your situation with your kids has changed, where you live
may change. So many things are changing. All the things
you came to know as your life will now change.
So when you say yes, let's say we have the
most amicable divorce possible, it's a mediation, we reach an agreement.
Everybody's happy still, So your sense of normalcy is going
(14:26):
to change one hundred and eighty degrees, even in the
most amicable divorce. So it's a very stressful process no
matter how you look at it, even when it's quote
unquote easy right. And I think I think the biggest
thing people need to do through the process is to
prepare themselves before the divorce. What you do in the
(14:46):
divorce process is important, but I think it's more important
to prepare yourself in advance. And when I say prepare
yourself in advance, you know we talked about that one
person you can count on. You know, you need to
have a support system, which which will include a therapist,
which will include friends. And I always say, sometimes you
want that friend who's going to kick you in the
(15:06):
ass when you need it, and you want that friend
who's going to be a shoulder to cry and give
you a hug when you need it.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
That's what therapists are. They're not supposed to be biased,
right like aramists two.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
But I think sometimes, you know, friends and support system
do something slightly different.
Speaker 1 (15:22):
What because I didn't find what well?
Speaker 2 (15:25):
I mean listen, Like I said, everybody's situation is different.
But I think a therapist are going to listen, but
they're going to give you a professional eye. It's different
than than your best friend.
Speaker 5 (15:35):
It's just that it's going to sound strange.
Speaker 4 (15:37):
But right before I broke off my engagement, I started
working out with a new trainer and he was pushing
me so hard. And right before I was going to
be getting h getting married, Like, I was drinking. I'm
not a big drinker, and I was drinking every single
night a lot, not I mean a lot, like not
thousands of drinks, but I would definitely drink, you know,
(15:58):
definitely two or three glasses of wine at night, and
wasn't sleeping a lot, was taking melotonin every night and
just you know, not eating a lot, and not like
trying to fit into a dress or anything. I just
was like trying to navigate that I had to be
up in the morning because I had to work, because
I had to make money, but I need at the
(16:18):
end of the day, I needed to like figure out
like how I could. You know, Sharyl and I talk
about this like numb myself and I started working out
with this trainer right before I was getting married, a
new trainer. This is like maybe a like two weeks before,
and the way that he was training me was so
taxing that I'm going to literally start crying, Like it
(16:42):
was so taxing that my whole body was just like
releasing from everything, and I was just like I can't
do this.
Speaker 5 (16:51):
I just can't do this.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
And it wasn't the exercise, it was that my whole
body was saying, you need your body needs to Like
I mean, Cheryl, you're a dancers, you want you understand this.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
Yeah, no, it's true. The body keeps a score like
you're you're letting trauma release, trauma off your body exactly.
Speaker 5 (17:08):
It was a trauma release. And so I suggest anyone
who's getting.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
Through a divorce to to enlist if you can, if
you can afford higher a trainer, something different like whatever
whatever it is.
Speaker 5 (17:25):
Yeah, take a dance class.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
You got to move your body, do something for yourself
and move your body. I agree. Literally, it was.
Speaker 5 (17:34):
An absolute game changer. And then I remember.
Speaker 4 (17:38):
After the day after I had called it off, I
my whole my whole head. I was having these chronic
headaches and my whole head was just clear.
Speaker 5 (17:51):
I didn't have and I mean.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
With it like that, it was just feel stagnant energy
anywhere gone.
Speaker 5 (17:57):
Yeah, it was like that's done, We're done.
Speaker 1 (18:00):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (18:01):
So I think that that's really important outside of obviously
coming to see you, Dennis, but just to have someone
who is physically helping you, like move and just have
that kinetic energy and not that you know, frenetic energy.
Speaker 5 (18:15):
That was one thing that really was a game.
Speaker 1 (18:17):
Changer for me. How do you not take the emotions
from us, like from not us, but from your clients, Like,
how do you not take that home with you?
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I think the way I do that best is to
make sure that I'm giving the right advice to people.
I mean, it is, it is a taxing area of law,
but I think if you approach it with care and
concern and not like you're just you know, I say
that our industry has become files on a conveyor belt.
It's become hey, this is what I did. Like we
said when we at the outset, Oh hey, you got
(18:46):
to make a living somehow are you going to make money?
And you're gonna you know, it's going to be.
Speaker 5 (18:49):
A fire, you know.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
And the course system too. So okay, we've got this couple,
we're gonna we're gonna divide the assets, are gonna get
the car going to house. Okay, we're gonna sign judgment doors, Okay, goodbye,
And you're like, what the hell my life is in
a shambles this whole process because this area of law,
there's so many emotions mixed in with law, so different
than any other area of law. That's what makes it
(19:11):
so different.
Speaker 6 (19:12):
Agree, and there's children involved, there's a family involved in children.
Speaker 3 (19:15):
I could never do it, honestly.
Speaker 6 (19:17):
It's it's I mean, I really admire respect like what
you do, even though you're you know, sometimes it doesn't
work out for the man or for the woman, whatever
it may be.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
But it's just a really tough specialty because family law
involving children.
Speaker 2 (19:30):
Yeah, thank you. I want to give advice, that's like,
you know, listen, when you come into my office, I
want to make sure the divorce is where you're going.
I want to make sure that you're absolutely certain that's
where you want to go. I want to make sure
you if you need counseling, that you have a counselor involved,
that if you know you're seeking out friends and family
to support you, you're thinking out the logistics of it.
(19:52):
I mean, I can't make you know. Listen, there are
things that Remember your lawyer. And here's an important point
to make. I think when people think of divorce, they think, oh,
I get a lawyer. I'm good, I get a divorce lawyer.
Your divorce lawyer is going to give you legal advice,
and then you're gonna leave their office and they're gonna
and if they're a good one, they're gonna do the
best they can to represent you.
Speaker 6 (20:12):
And sometimes it's not even such good advice. By the way,
what are your respect right right?
Speaker 2 (20:17):
It depends on you.
Speaker 4 (20:18):
You can't have to go home and try to manage
and navigate just saying but yeah.
Speaker 2 (20:22):
Yeah, but Kelly, what you just said right there. Then
then we send you home to go home and navigate,
and you're gonna do everything you can to shield your
kids from the process like you did, and you're gonna
put your kids first and put yourself second. And then
what we want you to do is try to find
a way to put yourself first. Try to find a
way to get yourself through the process where you're intact
(20:42):
when you come out the other side. And that's those
are the things that we can't help you with.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
But didn't they by calling you? Didn't they put themselves first?
Speaker 2 (20:50):
You know they did? And I think that's a good point.
I think that's the starting point, but I think it
goes so much deeper than that.
Speaker 6 (20:56):
But even so, don't you think if the woman is
going to see you, she's already made up her mind.
I mean, it could be difficult, but I believe that
she's the one that initiates it, and she goes to
see it, it's something that she already wanted. So, like,
I don't know why don't want to continue this because
I mean, I mean, I'm a woman, but I know
of a lot of women that just want to like
drag out the divorce.
Speaker 3 (21:17):
I don't know if it's because of the money.
Speaker 1 (21:19):
I'll be straight up. My divorce attorneys asked me those
questions like, are you know what is go? I wanted
to make sure that I wasn't reacting in yet instead
responding right, so like this was, you know, something that
we had long discussions about. It wasn't like it wasn't
a let's just go you know, No, you know, he
appreciated the fact that I've been therapy since I was
(21:39):
literally four years old, and that I've been with this
last one that I'm still with for fifteen years consistently.
So it's like, you know, this wasn't a pure reaction.
This was over time obviously, and then there's a time
when it's just no longer working, So what do I do?
What's the next step?
Speaker 2 (21:58):
The vast majority of those cases absolutely right, in fact,
the overwhelming majority. However, you're having conversations with clients and
these consultations, not like you're a lawyer trying to get
a case to put their case on a compayor belt
and make money off of it, I hope, not trying
to have a conversation with clients like you give a
crap about what's happening in their life and them individually.
(22:19):
So that that's again I think that's that's that's hard
to find focus it is and that's a shame.
Speaker 5 (22:24):
And you know what the.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
Big what I'm hearing is like the big void is
that there's information of like how to get divorced, and
there's information of why to get divorced, and there's information
of you know, the the unraveling or the finance or
the settlement agreements, the contract, but there's no next chapter advice.
Speaker 1 (22:45):
That's what we're here for.
Speaker 5 (22:46):
Girl.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Dennis, are you working on your new book?
Speaker 2 (22:49):
I am, Actually I feel like.
Speaker 1 (22:51):
You need to write a book, but there isn't only
one where you'll.
Speaker 6 (22:54):
Have both the legal and then the therapeutics. So that
could be you know, you definitely have the audience.
Speaker 5 (23:00):
Like day one you signed your agreement, you're divorced. What
do you do now?
Speaker 1 (23:05):
Don't go have a divorce party? Like that's ridiculous.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
I think, Look, there's so much that the I mean,
you you touched on it, and Kelly, you're one hundred
percent right. It's the tip of the iceberg. And you're right, Cheryl,
it isn't one path only for one person. But I
think for people, we need to do the best we
can as professionals in this space or people with experience
and having been through the process the podcast. Yeah, well,
(23:31):
right to get the word out because I tay. I
tell clients when they come into my office, like, Okay,
what I want you to do throughout the process? Consume information,
Listen to podcasts, talk to friends who've been through it,
Watch Instagram shows, watch things on TikTok, listen to videos.
Does it mean that everything they tell you is one
(23:51):
hundred percent accurate? No, But as you gain more information,
what you gain is calm and that's the most valuable
thing you can have through process.
Speaker 4 (24:00):
Okay, speaking of I'll come, how come there are these
these divorces or these you know that last like five
seven years?
Speaker 5 (24:10):
Like what what is the value of that?
Speaker 3 (24:13):
You just want to get back at the person.
Speaker 6 (24:15):
You despite the person, because I know those divorces and
it's ridiculous.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
Could it be money situation? It could be situational though
in that sense where like they have like if they
wait a certain amount of years, they could pay less.
Speaker 2 (24:26):
Alexia just answered it. She got it right from my experience.
Speaker 6 (24:29):
Yeah, it's despite of course, it's a spite. They want
to spite them. And what do you hit the what
do you hit the man with the money?
Speaker 1 (24:36):
It's like, why do people go back to abusive relationships.
Speaker 6 (24:41):
No where do you hit them the money. That's where
it hurts. The men don't have the cunities and their
emotions that we do for us. It's like, Okay, you
can take away our car, but don't take away like,
you know, something that's meaningful to us. You know, maybe
like a picture, an art or something that meant something
to us when we were together with my children.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
I told judges on a regular basis when.
Speaker 3 (24:59):
It get a mend box or whatever it was they did.
I mean vice versa.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Can I think and vice versa? Listen. I tell judges
and opposing counsel in these cases and clients regularly. I say,
most of these divorces are math problems. When it comes
to the finances. There is nothing more than a math
not well and the and the prenup keeps it. The
prenup keeps it clearer. But generally speaking, at least in
(25:25):
New York State, it's pretty straightforward. A lot of the
issues what what tends to complicate things? Oh way, there
are remnants of a broken relationship that you never resolved
for yourself and feel like you need to you need
to get like like you know, she always did this
during their relationship and now and I never really saw
this ass and now I'm gonna figure it out. I've
(25:47):
gotta let go of that stuff.
Speaker 1 (25:49):
Let go and let God. Folks, let go and let God. Dennis,
we can talk to you all damn day. Thank you
so much, so much.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
Yes, listen, I'm hearing your stories though. It's amazing. I
just love it.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
When I get married again, I'll make sure to move
to New York and hire you for my next divorce.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
I think. Listen, if you haven't heard this before, the
fact that you've made it through the divorce process intact
says to me, you're incredibly brave because it's so difficult
to have that level of courage to get through that.
People don't realize how difficult it is.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
It's so difficult that I'm a virgin, I'm born again,
and I am single for the rest of my life
because I'm loving it.
Speaker 2 (26:33):
But you love you. That's the key, that is true,
That's all that matters, that will that will take you everywhere.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
I love now, you love you, You love you, and
I love you. We're all one, okay, folks, we're all one.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Good to talk to you, ladies.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
We know you're good when you can handle three strong women.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
His wife is a strong woman too strong.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Yes, my mother in law and my mom and top
of the craft. My wife is she She's a She's
a top strong, willed, successful, confident lady. And I wouldn't
have it any other way.
Speaker 3 (27:12):
So, now that you're saying that, do you think the
marriage is last longer when the woman is a strong
woman like that or a weak woman. I always have
the right partner.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
Only if your mother was strong, only if like Seriously.
Speaker 2 (27:27):
I always thought that because I was a big personality,
very confident person very strong willed, I needed somebody who
was gonna kind of like acquiesce to me. And what
I realized over time I'm fifty three years old. Now
what I realized over time, Oh thank you when I
met my wife is I need the opposite of that.
I need someone who inspires me, who matches my energy,
(27:49):
who I can look up to, who I don't feel
like needs to live in my shadows. Sometimes I live
in hers, sometimes she lives in mind and we stand
together with us.
Speaker 1 (27:58):
And I that you are you're aware of that is amazing, amazing.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
My wife is pretty amazing.
Speaker 1 (28:04):
So I'm very lucky, so I in her next We'll
see Yes, thank you, Dennis. Happy holidays Hannis by Dennis.
(28:24):
What do you guys think of Dennis? Isn't he right?
Speaker 6 (28:26):
He's great, He's great, He's I really enjoyed talking to him.
Speaker 1 (28:30):
What did you learn?
Speaker 6 (28:33):
Well, I learned that apparently you have to be prepared.
I was like, what, Like, I never thought that. Okay, yeah,
I guess I've always been caught off guard, and so
that was basically for me, like the most striking thing
to listen to was that that you need to be prepared.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
At first, he didn't agree with that, you know, and.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
I still kind of don't because that's not have the
way that I've lived in my life.
Speaker 6 (29:00):
I hear you, and then some people will say, well,
how has it worked out for you? Right?
Speaker 3 (29:03):
I have like some friends to say, Okay, well how's
it worked out for you? But you know, I do
everything from my.
Speaker 6 (29:07):
Heart and I know no, I would feel bad as
a person if if I were to do something like that.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
You know, however, the type of person that I like
to sit down and I like to help the conversation.
Speaker 6 (29:19):
If you're my friend, if you're my lover, if you're
sure whatever you are.
Speaker 1 (29:23):
That's ideal. That's ideal. But intellectually, do you understand it?
Speaker 3 (29:28):
Oh, one hundred percent. Yeah.
Speaker 6 (29:29):
You have to be prepared for everything in life, you know, right,
So that's the most important thing that I took.
Speaker 3 (29:34):
So ladies, prepare.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
I am for my next failed marriage. I'm kidding.
Speaker 3 (29:40):
Stop stop saying that, Cheryl. I'm not gonna lot Cheryl
say that anymore.
Speaker 1 (29:44):
Hey, it's all good. I can joke because I'm not
even dating. We're good, Okay, this.
Speaker 5 (29:49):
Podcast we're talking about divorce.
Speaker 4 (29:51):
But I really, my my biggest takeaway from this entire
moment obviously just like being able to like talk and
hear the stories. I love that so much. Just brings
me like so much peace, But just kind of like
the thought of you know what it is that, what
does that?
Speaker 5 (30:09):
What are those next steps after you get divorced? Like
I think that's most.
Speaker 3 (30:13):
It's like who wants to get married again?
Speaker 7 (30:15):
Right?
Speaker 5 (30:16):
Wanting?
Speaker 4 (30:16):
It's like it's you know, it's like one, it's like
kind of like when you're in the divorce. What he
was what Dennis was saying is that people are asking questions,
are coming to see him. There's a lot of energy
that's into the contract. But the minute that contract is
over and those phone calls are over and the conversations
are over, and the fighting is over on both sides.
Speaker 5 (30:36):
Like where do people? What do people do? What are
the next steps?
Speaker 1 (30:39):
I think it's sitting in the uncomfterble feelings. It's feeling
the feelings, but feeling them in a way where you
have to understand in general. God, I wish I could
take my own advice, but like, this is what I'm
going to be. This is my goal for twenty twenty
five is to be able to not because I'm addicted
to productivity now, Kelly, you know that, but like so
(31:00):
so with that comes me numbing. That's my new numbing device.
So it used to be people, it used to be alcohol,
and I'm so bur so. Now what do I do
to numb and not have to sit in my shit?
Speaker 3 (31:10):
Is work?
Speaker 1 (31:11):
I just work. My to do list is so long,
but I'm gonna have to because I don't want to
one die early or to check myself into the nearest
mental institution. I have to feel my feelings and knowing
that feelings come and go like the waves of the ocean.
Literally is what is going to help me get through it.
And I think the sooner you feel, the sooner I
(31:32):
won't be held in your body. And God knows what
that causes as far as diseases go, or sickness or whatever.
But like, it is so important to just wherever safe
space you feel like, and it may not include other people.
This is why I ghosted myself literally from everybody when
I moved out of LA because I know that I
(31:52):
can't feel with other people are surrounding me, let alone
feel alone? Right, Like, so how am I ever going
to feel if I don't really force that?
Speaker 4 (32:00):
And you know, it's interesting that you said that, because
that's something that's been happening to me and before or
if I was ever in a situation that was uncomfortable.
Speaker 5 (32:07):
Whether it was work related or life related, I would just.
Speaker 4 (32:11):
Push those feelings down. And now I'm just very open
to everything.
Speaker 5 (32:16):
And because we've been.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
Having these conversations now for you know, for the last
couple of months, and you know, I'll be with clients
and I can feel like getting overwhelmed, Like it's like
I can feel that I'm going to start to cry.
Speaker 5 (32:29):
And I don't know why.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
Oh that's great, but I'm actually it's great. That's good. No,
it's good.
Speaker 5 (32:35):
I'm actually okay with it.
Speaker 1 (32:36):
I'm like, and you don't need to know why. Who cares?
Speaker 5 (32:39):
And I don't know why, And I'm just like, I'm
actually okay with it. And it just feels good. It
feels good to feel.
Speaker 3 (32:47):
Good and like good to feel good inside.
Speaker 1 (32:49):
You know what's so fascinating. I still stop myself from crying.
It's like it wasn't it's I have to untrain that
part of my brain because crying, to me, it's like
it's the scariest thing when I'm not present with it,
meaning like it's not scary obviously, I know that in
my brain. But I've always stopped myself from crying. It's
it's interesting, It's okay.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
Sometimes it's good just to let it out. It's okay.
Speaker 6 (33:13):
I mean we all have different like outlets, you know,
we all deal with things differently.
Speaker 1 (33:17):
Yeah, I like to just be a sarcastic bitch, but
I don't know that's my version that.
Speaker 5 (33:24):
The warmest human.
Speaker 1 (33:26):
Oh my god, I totally related to you, Kelly. When
You're like, people think I'm so confident in this hard
I've got the wall of China. Now if you could
break my brick wall of China that we're then you're
you deserve self, you deserve the time together because it
is a defense mechanism for me. But I get it,
like I get approached by people who are like so intimidated,
(33:47):
like by who like you? Who are you talking to?
Speaker 3 (33:51):
You know?
Speaker 1 (33:52):
But I do have a resting bitch face, so that helps.
Speaker 4 (33:54):
Oh you do not that is not smiling and you're
always like you're just a warm human.
Speaker 5 (33:59):
I think that's how I see you.
Speaker 1 (34:01):
Thank you, and same with you, by the way, thank you.
It's just you know, they're not ready for us. That's why, Yeah,
we need to own our space and take up the space.
Speaker 6 (34:12):
I feel like, just meant today, they just they don't
want they don't want to They don't have a commitment,
you know, they just don't want the commitment. Yeah, and
you know, and if you're committed to yourself, like and
being better and just you know, growing and getting stronger
and you know you're doing things that are gratifying to you,
it's like you really don't eat men anymore. I mean really,
it's like if you I.
Speaker 4 (34:33):
Don't want to get to the point why I don't
eat men anymore because you know, like.
Speaker 6 (34:37):
Well, me neither, I mean none, That's what I'm saying,
me neither. But I'm just saying that society.
Speaker 3 (34:42):
Can look at it, look at look at your Instagram feed,
everything is about you.
Speaker 6 (34:46):
How are women and self care and said love and like,
so that's what I was saying.
Speaker 3 (34:51):
So it's like it's really hard.
Speaker 4 (34:53):
Actually, I have an amazing twin brother, I had an
unbelievable father, Like, I have a lot of admiration. So
I don't why I want to feel like I'm alone
on an island anymore because I've been on my own island,
Alexia for so long, like I literally have been like
it's it's it's I'm done. I don't want to do
that anymore. I want to feel good, I said, Like
(35:14):
I saying I want to continue feeling good about feeling
good and I and I want to be open to
that right person who's there and whether he sees me
walking across the street because I'm smiling because I'm actually
like just genuinely happy or wherever or however.
Speaker 5 (35:30):
But you know, I do feel like it's an energy thing.
Speaker 3 (35:35):
I know that sounds like so like no, no, but
it's true. Good energy trucks.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
What do you wait, what do you mean? You're done
being on an island?
Speaker 5 (35:43):
I'm done with me.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
I don't say that out loud, because then you're tracking
attract You're attracting desperation. Don't do that. You're not alone,
You're not done.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
No, I know, but I'm saying that I put myself
on that island, just like you were saying that you
go everybody like me on an island?
Speaker 1 (35:59):
No, me too. You live in New York. So should
we try and like rie fifty to fifty? Yeah, I know,
but like I'm also alone in ghosting people, and I'm
ready for human connection. But this is the problem I'm
picky now with Like before it was just more bodies,
more bodies, more bodies, Like I feel like the friends.
Speaker 6 (36:18):
The more time you're by yourself, you get piggier. And
that's like I feel like a lot of my friends
has happened too. They're so selective, you know, and they're
so good with like managing their time and what they want.
Speaker 3 (36:29):
You don't even realize it.
Speaker 6 (36:30):
Like for you, you know, it's been two or three
years whatever, and you're so good with yourself.
Speaker 3 (36:34):
And you don't need that. But when you're not there,
like I'm not there.
Speaker 6 (36:37):
I don't know that I ever will be there because
I for me, people are important, like I have a
lot of people in my life, and you know, I
have friends and and you know I'm you know, young
and old. It's just for me, it's it's part of
my life. I don't care here you could ever be
in that island by myself, Like, honestly, I can't.
Speaker 1 (36:56):
Well, it's just it's a choice. It's a choice, right
like and by way to each their own. Absolutely, there's
so many different ways. Holly, Let's have a zoom friendship. Okay,
I'm so down for that. I have my own Zoom account.
Speaker 3 (37:11):
I love you girls. A week on you too. I
really love talking to both of you. You can call
me whenever you want. We'll keep in touch. Yes, please
tell I feel we all help. Yes, I will do that.
Speaker 1 (37:22):
And if you see, if there's any hot dudes, you know,
holler girls.
Speaker 3 (37:26):
Yeah, but you know in Miami it's really hard to
find men here.
Speaker 6 (37:30):
Really, but oh my god, everybody, Well there's hot people here,
but I mean it's so fake and transitional.
Speaker 3 (37:37):
The correct transition. It's like, I.
Speaker 6 (37:41):
Don't know that you can find there's like twenty five
women for each guy, and they're all for the same guy.
Speaker 3 (37:46):
It's really girls. The guys here are so entitled and in.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
La by the way, mm hmmm. You know what this
whole world. I wish I was a lesbian, but I
don't like girls.
Speaker 6 (37:59):
You know.
Speaker 3 (38:00):
Oh, that's that's what it is.
Speaker 6 (38:01):
I'm surprised there's not for lesbians, honestly, after having these
conversations about men.
Speaker 3 (38:05):
Surprising.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
I mean, I love girls, but you know what I'm saying,
I've tried. It just doesn't know doesn't tickle my pickle.
Speaker 3 (38:12):
Mm hmm.
Speaker 1 (38:13):
How about you, Kelly? This is another episode?
Speaker 3 (38:16):
Yeah, it's another episode.
Speaker 4 (38:18):
I just again, like I just really, I know that
I'm going to have this amazing love story.
Speaker 5 (38:23):
I do.
Speaker 3 (38:24):
I know we're gonna be there with you, Kelly.
Speaker 1 (38:27):
We're going to write a book about it and it's gonna.
Speaker 3 (38:30):
You know, I love that you believe I love Kelly.
So why And that's why, Like I could go through
all you.
Speaker 6 (38:36):
Know, people would be like, oh my god, but aren't
you like because other women will will will be that way.
It will be like why are how are you still
open to love? Because you know what, and I always will.
Nobody's going to take that away from me.
Speaker 1 (38:47):
Good for you.
Speaker 3 (38:48):
Love. I'm in love with love. I loved overrated.
Speaker 1 (38:52):
Just kidding, I know.
Speaker 6 (38:53):
I mean they're different, right, No, I know, but I
get what you say, you know, but with love, he's
pain awesome, you know, you know, with joy comes sadness.
How do you know sadness if you don't know joy?
So it's very complicated.
Speaker 1 (39:06):
You're right, But it's about my fear. It's my fear
is so so high as far as like wanting not
wanting to get hurt again, that I.
Speaker 6 (39:13):
Am protecting you, and of course, yeah you damn it.
Speaker 3 (39:18):
Girls, we love you. You're going to be just fine.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
Oh thank you. It's so good to see you after
it's been over a decade. So good to see you.
Speaker 3 (39:27):
Happy here to see you.
Speaker 4 (39:29):
We wish you all like the healthiest and happiest holiday
and good feelings and good vibes.
Speaker 1 (39:35):
And I'll see you on your island. I'm going to
come to your island, Miami, and hell yeah, I love Miami.
Bye girls, Happy holidays, holidays. I just love talking to
these women, Alexia and Kelly. They're such just strong independent
(39:56):
women who have gone through divorce. And it just makes
me feel like I'm not alone. But do you guys
have any questions about divorce maybe or are you looking
for advice now that your relationship or marriage is over.
Make sure to call us or email us, and follow
us on all social platforms and the information will be
in the show notes, so make sure to rate and
review the podcast. I Do Part Two is an iHeartRadio
(40:19):
podcast where falling in love is the main objective.
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