April 4, 2023 • 44 mins
Now that Zach’s season of The Bachelor is all wrapped up, Ben is ready to go IN DEPTH with Ariel Frenkel.
Ariel has some strong feelings about what happened during “sex week”. Find out why her relationship with Zach could have turned out COMPLETELY different.
And, Ariel shares her honest reaction to the fan campaign to make her The Bachelorette
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous in Depth.
All right, today we're joined on the Almost Famous podcast
for a very special episode Ariel. Welcome. Hi. You have
been doing the rounds here recently. You've been talking about
this show a lot. Are you sick of it yet?
(00:21):
I could never get sick of talking about the show.
That's not true, I promise you that's not true. I
think it's nice to be able to talk about the experience,
and I feel like from each conversation you get a
different take from different people and they ask different questions.
So it hasn't become redundant for me yet, but maybe
one day I'll get tired of it. Well, you know,
(00:42):
it is a cool experience. And I will say, as
I was prepping for this, you have you have an
experience that not everybody can can relate with that came
onto the show and then have been removed from the show.
You pretty much personally came out, in my opinion, and unscathed.
Like nobody is hating on Ariio. Everybody loves Ariel. How
(01:04):
does that feel? I think there will always these some haters,
some okay majority. I was given amazing advice kind of
after the experience about how to handle everything, because going
in I kind of didn't know what to anticipate, and
everything that I might have anticipated was very different once
I was actually in there. So I was given great
(01:25):
advice on how to handle everything once because there's this
interim period of we kind of leave. I left Thailand
and then for a long time, I don't know what
anything's going to look like, what's going to play back,
what the episodes are going to be like. So someone
told me that no matter what people say, I have
to keep being authentically myself and sticking true to what
I know of myself. So even if people are praising you,
(01:47):
if they're saying really nice things, don't take that to heart.
But also then don't take the insults too much to
heart either. So I feel like there's always something negative
that people can say to me. There's always something that
can be said in any capacity, But of putting so
much weight on the compliments, I'm also not going to
put so much weight there, so I won't put weight
on the negative commentary. So I appreciate what everyone's saying.
(02:08):
Everyone's been so sweet, so nice, and like, I love
how people have been reaching out like individually, even through
like social media and stuff, and even a Nashville I
run into people on the street and they had such
kind things to say. But I try to like still
stay true to myself, so even if I hear insults
or hear someone say something, because people will always, no
matter who you are, have something negative to say. So
(02:29):
I feel like I try to ignore that and keep
being myself no matter like what people say, not trying
to shift that. Who gave you this advice a friend
of mine that I'm actually well traveling? Oh really, So
like they weren't somebody from the show No No, But
when they told you this, it just felt like, No,
I needed this reminder. It wasn't someone I was super
(02:53):
close to. But they said. Let's say someone says that
I'm unintelligent, for example, and I'll be trying to prove
that person wrong instead of just being intelligent. So whatever
the insult or anything is, you're always going to be
trying to disprove what people say. So it's better to
actually just be yourself because then that way, even the
compliments will actually ring true and the insults won't. So
(03:16):
it's better to do that than to try to combat
what people are saying online and I try to honestly
only filter in the positive commentary for the most part.
You know, the other thing that happens. It feels like
when you're saying this, you wouldn't lose yourself, which is
so easy to happen in this experience. Right, you're in
it right now. But you went from zero to one hundred, right,
I mean a year ago you weren't getting recognized in Nashville,
(03:38):
or maybe you were and you could correct me there,
but now you are, And it's so easy. There's so
many different factors that can cause you to lose who
you are and years later you look back and say,
what happened? What was all this about? Yeah? Definitely, And
I wanted to make sure that I was being authentic
to myself through the experience. And I wasn't going to
waiver on that, even in moments of being uncomfortable or
(04:00):
so I didn't feel like myself. It's always important to
kind of go back to your center of gravity one
when you can, well, I want to talk about who
you are as a person. This is an in depth
episode with Ariel. I was Ariel, right, that's how you
say it, Ariel. Okay. So there's like a longer. Yeah,
I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna do that correctly seventy five
(04:22):
percent of the time, I promise, Okay, from here on out,
it's going to be right. But these are most listened
to episodes here at the Almost Famous Podcast because I
think people really like to know who they are watching
and who they are seeing on television. So let's start
at the beginning before or not at the beginning necessarily,
but who were you before this show? What was your job?
(04:44):
What were your hobbies? What are your friend group like?
Give us a little insight. Should I start for the beginning?
I started my college days whenever it feels like it
matters the most. Well. I grew up in New York.
After New York, I moved to DC for school. I
went to Dow George Washington, and I actually made my
closest friends there. I don't think I had as many
(05:05):
close relationships with people in high school, like typical bully story.
But I really made like my lifelong, like forever kind
of partner friends in college and I still we're kind
of in a group of four, and then many people
outside of that. And then I graduated college and actually
moved to LA to pursue a job in entertainment. I
(05:27):
worked at a talent agency and it's like grad school,
but it is a very intense experience and I learned
a lot in two years. I then worked in hospitality.
I've kind of switched around a lot of different jobs.
I most recently was working for The Financial Times, and
then I switched to freelance marketing. So I basically now
(05:50):
work with brands, building brands up, doing all the marketing
strategy for them from the beauty space to the fashion space,
and also through word of mouth through anyone that actually
wants to work with me based on my previous experience.
So uh, and it's it's a question that so many
get asked at this stage, Now do you plan on
continuing to work at the job that you have before?
So I now work in freelance. I'm going to keep
(06:10):
that job as long as I can because I really
like building brands from the ground up and helping people
visualize their strategy. I was able to basically apply everything
I've learned. I've worked since I was sixteen years old.
I over the summer. Was intered at the first time
when I was sixteen at a PR firm, and I
just loved the rush of like being surrounded by people
that are kind of running around the clock. I was
with all twenty six year olds at that time, and
(06:32):
I just felt like writing copy and getting involved. And
to me, I always prioritize even work over schooling and
things like that. So I interned every single year when
I was actually in school through both kind of like
different semesters of the year and then also in the summer.
So then, now, do you feel like your experience on
the show? Has it given you any new insights? Do
(06:54):
you you feel like it's going to help you? I mean,
I would imagine. I don't want to assume, because most
like good people don't. But you didn't go into this
show thing hey, this is going to help my career.
But now you're seeing the you know, the backside of
the show in what opportunities are available. Do you think
it's going to help in this next chapter? I don't
necessarily think so's it can hurt and depending on the
(07:16):
job opportunity. But I'm more so I'm less interested in
the corporate world and I kind of left that and
I'm more interested in like the startup and freelancing space,
so that it can hurt you in more corporate environments
because people question your participation. So I actually really had
to think about it before I went into the show,
because that could really hurt my chances of going back
(07:37):
into kind of a large corporation and even the previous
work experience that I had. So I really had to
be meticulous about it, think about it, and so far
I think when people search me there won't be kind
of negative commentary or anything like that that they see
from my experience on the show. But I also had
to be really careful about what kind of roles I
want to pivot into now if I do decide to
(07:57):
go back, it's like the startup space. Yeah no, you again.
You carried yourself tremendously on the show, and you stayed
authentic to who you are. I think that's a big
reason why you are such a fan favorite, and you
have been busy talking about the show since the show.
Let's give us a little more insight here. If I
did my research correctly, your national Ellie is Ukrainian. Correct, Yeah,
(08:21):
I'm Ukrainian Jewish. Ukrainian Jewish. You grew up in New
York City, as you said, you moved to LA but
you are a world traveler. Also, you do enjoy travel.
That is a big part of your life, correct, Yeah,
it always has been. Through work. I traveled a lot
for most of my jobs, and I also worked for
a company that was primarily based in London, and then
a previous company as well that was between LA and
(08:41):
New York, but we traveled all over. Because it was
in the hospitality space, we did a lot of on
the groundwork where we checked out different hotels and restaurants
and so on to kind of see what the market
is like. And in between every job I've made, start
to do a big trip, usually by myself. Again, between
when I left the talent agency space and was moving
into hospitality, I went to Asia on my own because
(09:03):
I knew I wouldn't have that like two month period
to have off again. So I think it's important to
travel to see the world, and if you can do
it within a certain budget as well. I like the
challenge of being able to do so. You're you you definitely,
I mean least we got this sense that you're adventurous.
You're One of your final dates was Zach was eating
(09:26):
insects and we said here at the almost famous podcast, Um,
how cool of a moment. That was because traditionally on
the show or other shows, you see people traveled to
different cultures and kind of get grossed out by whatever
is being put in front of you or whatever, and
it's it's always a very awkward, I feel like scene
because it's it's it's disrespectful in my mind. And you
(09:50):
especially did not disrespect you dove in and you enjoyed
it and you talked about good it was. I thought
it was a really great moment for the show to
see somebody respect culture in different people's lifestyles like you did.
I think you always have to. And it's also smart
sometimes to do research before you go somewhar to know
the customs because even a handshake can be disrespectful in
(10:11):
certain cultures. So I think it's very important to do
as much research as you can, no matter which new
city you're going to and country as well. Yeah, well,
thank you. I guess it was a great thing to
see on television. Well, I want to dive into your
time on the show. Now we've got a picture of
who you are when you got signed up, when you
(10:32):
agreed to come on the show, were you already interested
in Zach was this already something or in somebody that
you were intrigued by, or is this just a new
experience to have a lot of fun with. No, I
was definitely I found out. I signed up for the
experience not knowing that it would be Zach, but I
found out before going in. So were you excited? Yeah,
(10:53):
I was excited. Okay. I definitely was guarded coming in,
and I was cautious because I didn't know what to
think of the experience and what to think of someone
kind of trying to pursue a relationship in that kind
of a dynamic. But the more I got to know him,
the more excited I got, and the more I kind
of felt like, yes, he wasn't part of like the
typical kind of I don't really have a type, honestly,
(11:15):
I like to say that, but he's definitely not in
line with like anyone I've dated in the last few years.
And he really reminded me of a lot of the
relationships I had in college, and his kindness and his
sweetness and the way he was really like a great
listener and made me feel comfortable in such an uncomfortable environment. Yeah,
I got more excited as I got to know him,
because I don't like to really base anything off of
(11:36):
what you see on someone on television or what they
might be like, because you might be disappointed or they
might just be different when you meet them. So I
was very excited as much as I could be, but
I like to like limit my emotions until I really
meet someone to get to know them. So I mean,
you know, I think one thing that we've been critical
of here and we said, oh, we don't know if
(11:56):
it's always fair to Zach is you know, his listening
abilities was not exactly shown on television. But we had
Jess on a week or so ago and she said
he was a good listener. You're saying he's a good listener,
can you if you don't mind maybe like supporting the
dude a little bit and validating that, yes, he did
(12:17):
actually listen and he wasn't just quick to cut the
conversation off and move on. Of course, he was a
great listener. And I think that people kind of said
this previously, but people put such an emphasis on empathy
and use these words that they actually don't align with themselves.
You don't have to have the same experience as someone
to be there for them and to make them feel
(12:38):
better about their experience, or just to listen, you can
give off a sense of sympathy, because those are two
very different things. So I felt like Zach was very
sympathetic to different people's experiences. But there's also a limitation
to how much you can really be there for someone
that you're getting to know on such a short period
of time, especially in the first few weeks, because ultimately,
like these people don't know each other, so it's very
(12:59):
hard to sit there and have and hear about a
really major life event of someone's and be able to
contribute and comment back so much. Because also if you
interrupt them or you don't have a good pace in
how you're actually having that dialogue, it can come off
as disrespectful if you're like too engaged, and you kind
of also don't have experience in what they've kind of
gone through. So I think that's a lot of pressure
(13:21):
to put on someone to always be asking the right
questions without even a license therapist. He's not a psychologist,
you know, he doesn't understand how to dissect these things.
He's also someone getting to know someone. So I think,
especially as the season progressed and he got to know
people better, he was able to get more of an
understanding of their experience and also that connection was there. Yeah,
(13:42):
And so when did you feel like your connection with
him really spark Then? When did it go from being
interested and intrigued to being like, this is somebody now
I want to pursue in our one on one Estonia.
I feel like that was really a turning point for me.
I think it was really nice that we were able
to have a slow build and a slow progression because
it was it allowed us to kind of enjoy the
(14:03):
environment and the difficulty of it because I was able
to see him slowly and slowly each week, and I
kind of feel like that's how we were able to
get to the right pace by the Uestolia date and
then we really like transcended everything by that point in
(14:26):
your mind, I mean, after that date, did you believe
and could you first see yourself being with Zach at
the end? I could, Yeah, And I think, you know,
it's obviously it's a little bit of well you've been again,
You've been praised by Bachelor Nation for your poise, but
it's a little bit of a it's a sad storyline
(14:49):
that I feel like probably most people now are asking
you about like the last you know episode of the show.
It's kind of the marking on your storyline because your
story was incredible with Zach from start to finish through
this season, and it did it. It kind of ramped
up and then it continued and at the end, nobody
that was watching could really tell, like who was going
(15:10):
to be there in the end, but it wasn't you.
And so people are asking you about that moment. Not
to jump completely ahead, but when that last Row ceremony
existed and you had this such a great thing, you
had such a great thing going with Zach, were you
surprised that you're going to be going home? Or did
you pretty much foresee it happening in the overnight that
this was your last week. I didn't see it on
(15:33):
our date in the overnight because I was the first
date and I felt like we had such honestly a
great time talking and talking about our features and things
like that. But I was very kind of honest about
what I was looking for and honest about the way
I was feeling as well, and I kind of forgot
about the other dynamics. I forgot about the other women.
I forgot that there was other people there, because you're
also not surrounded by the women at this point, so
(15:54):
you don't know how their dates are going, you don't
know how their connections are progressing, and you kind of
forget that it's not just you Zach in a way.
So I was initially shocked to be going home, but
at the actual rose ceremony, I noticed that he wasn't
making eye contact, that there was a long speech given
about what it transpired. I knew it wasn't related to me,
So I was able to pick up on the fact
that I was going home in that moment, but honestly
(16:16):
forgot that that was an option walking into the rose ceremony,
just because of how our date went. It's interesting, most
people we talked to have a pretty good feeling that
last week that that was that was it for them,
like they'd be back on a planehead and home. And
you are saying that you realize that at the rose
(16:36):
ceremony itself, that when he wasn't making into contact, you're
picking up on his body language that this was going
to be it for you. I also had to remembered
that he had other strong connections because you get so
wrapped up in your date and your experience with this person,
so you forget that they you know, you objectively know
that they're going on another date, that there's the other
(16:57):
women there, but seeing the other women as well, I
had remembered how strong those connections were from kind of
a very early point because we had progressed so late,
kind of in the process. By Estonia that was kind
of the last one on one, So I felt like
I had been reminded of the reality of everything so
versus being so wrapped up and caught up in our
date and our experience in our relationship, because I try
(17:19):
to always look at our individual experience versus comparing myself
to the other women. And I was also throughout the
experience able to gauge more what the other relationships were
like based on the women coming back talking about their date,
talking about the connection. So I think being also separate
from the women not being in the same like hotels
them and vicinity, I just kind of was reminded of
(17:39):
the reality of everything while the rose ceremony is happening. Yeah,
So I mean, are you close with the other women
with gabbing, Katie, Were you close with them going into it? Yeah?
I was very close to them from the really beginning. Honestly,
it was kind of the three of us being very
close throughout the entire experience, and I also had close
relationships with the other women, but I had a particular
(17:59):
close Cicadian Gabby. Yeah, so it is a weird you know,
people don't always know this when they're watching it, but
it is a weird week because you go from kind
of being in this house with you know, all of
these people, talking, playing cards, doing whatever you do to
entertain yourself, and then all of a sudden, before you
know it, you're at your own home and then you're
(18:22):
isolated for you know, I think for me it was
around like a week and a half, like almost ten
days of being alone, just entertaining myself while at the
same time still trying to remember that I'm like dating
this person and I am on a show. But it
gets it's a really weird dynamic at the end. I
think it's very isolating by the end, and I think
(18:44):
not being able. It's funny because throughout the entire experience,
it's very overwhelming to be surrounded by so many women
at once, to have all these dates and all these things,
and that can breed elements of jealousy that can breed
elements of kind of comparison. But it's actually really hard.
I think it would be very difficult as well to
have the women come back after their dates, because I
know that's happened in the past. Yeah, I know Zach
(19:05):
definitely wanted to keep us separate, and that was much
better for us objectively, but it was very difficult to
also feel so isolated in those in those moments, in
those points, and you're you're disconnected from from your friends,
from your family, from anyone really, so you're just a
left alone with your thoughts, and that's not always the
best headspace and feeling to have. Yeah, I wonder you
(19:25):
don't have to answer it. But I'm just curious now
that you say that, because in past seasons, most of
the seasons here is recently, we've seen the women come
back from these dates or the men come back from
these dates and be around each other. I wonder with
this particular scenario, obviously, with what happened with Zach, I
(19:47):
wonder what the dynamic would have been like, if it
would have changed things, if it would have made the
things more tumultuous, or if it would have made things
easier because everybody could have talked in one space. What
do you I mean if you want to answer it,
or if you can't answer, what do you think? I
think we all had so much respect for each other,
and we still do now despite the things that had happened,
(20:07):
and we would never blame one another for anything. So
and the way we're able to be so happy for
Katie now and have such a normal dynamic and relationship.
I just think that if we had been able to
have a conversation and it was more so even privatized,
that could have been beneficial to all of us. Yea
to have that awareness, because I think there was a
lack of awareness of what had happened, And I think
(20:30):
for me, I'll only speak on my own experience. For
me personally, standing at the Rose ceremony and not knowing
what had happened or what Zach was talking about, and
then being sent home and still not knowing for a
long period of time, I think that would have definitely
eased a lot of my own confusion and my own
lack of understanding of anything that's transpired and tile and
outside of me. How long were you confused for? When
(20:52):
did you find out how did you find out? When
did stuff start making sense? I found out a lot
of information in watching it, So I think that was
the really difficult part in watching everything back, we all
found out the full scope of what had happened, and
I think that was really hard. That episode was the
hardest for me to personally watch, not because it was
(21:12):
necessarily even just me being sent home and seeing the
difficulty get the breakup. I feel like everything was overshadowed
for something that I felt like took away from all
of our relationships in different ways, and I just didn't
like the way anything was handled. What were your emotions
watching it? Were you angry? Were you sad? I went
through a wave of a lot of different emotions. I
was very confused, and then I was really sad watching
(21:33):
it and seeing that even when you see kind of
us parting and me saying goodbye to Zack and all
these things, I felt like it quickly shifted to another topic.
So it was really sad to see that my relationship
was kind of overshadowed by a single week and a
single experience. And yes, things are really poorly handled, but
I felt like there was so much like kind of
(21:54):
beauty in that relationship and we had gotten so close
at that point, and I didn't like how everything was
position and so I thought that was really difficult to
see and difficult to watch. And then I was angry
as well in terms of the whole week being centered
around sex and how things that should have been private
were publicized. So I was also angry for my friends
that I was angry for myself, and then I was
(22:17):
sadness kind of Again, It's tough because we got to
walk a thin line here between being judgmental and critical
but also understanding. You know that we have been able
now to look back on this moment, and there was
So there's a lot of complexity in this moment because
I really do believe Zach thought he was doing the
right thing, like I really and I think his intentions
were really good. I think he meant well by it.
(22:39):
But I think all of us could see watching it
and preparing for especially those who have been on the
show before, that hey, this is going to be really
hard to navigate, Like you are making statements early on
that you don't know if you're gonna be able to
keep so for you, but I can I can say
that and judge that and criticize that from my couch,
(23:00):
I have no play you know, role in this at
all other than talking to people like you on this podcast.
But as you look back on it now, how do
you wish this would have gone? Like? What do you
wish Zach would have done that week? Knowing that, okay,
he didn't believe that having sex with any anybody was
going to be like he thought the better option would
be to keep that off the table for the healthiness
(23:22):
of all relationships involved. I think that was his intention.
How would you have liked this to play out? Then?
Between the you know four of you? I just wish
he had a conversation with all of us that was private.
When it came to intimacy. I think there should be
discretion de quorum in that, and I don't think that
should be kind of publicized in any way. I think
(23:42):
in previous season there's always been like this question mark
of what happened in the fantasy suites. Think I hate
that terminology what happened in the overnights? So I wish
that things were handled with privacy, and I also wish
that there were like a very one on one conversation
with each person to gauge how they're feeling to people
come to that conclusion doesn't matter feeling on it, And
(24:03):
I respected Zach's attentions and I respected I think he
tried to approach the week with kind of a noble ideation.
He felt very like, this decision is noble and I'm
helping everyone, But he actually kind of hurt everyone by
making a unilateral decision without everyone else. So each relationship
is so different, each person requires such different things. We're
(24:24):
all very different personality types as well, and I wish
he honored all of those relationships by having a kind
of one on one conversation with each person and not
approaching the week in a unified way. Well, I mean,
for somebody that you've complimented here on the show and
other places, and for somebody you have respected and that
you built a relationship with, and you know fairly well,
(24:45):
why do you think he felt like it was his
ability to make this decision for everybody else. I doubt
that he thought about the repercussions of this, and I
doubt that he ever anticipated the week would play out
the way that it did. Again, I think it's kind
of like a falsifi nobility, because I think he was
trying to protect everyone. I think he always comes from
like an earnest and genuine place. I actually don't think
(25:06):
he had malintent at all, and I don't think he's
just a malicious person in general. And I just can
authentically say that based on my experience with him and
based on the person that I got to know. So
I think that he was trying to kind of please
everyone and trying to live up to this like persona
of being like a really great kind of bachelor and
(25:26):
a great person versus just seeing how everyone else was
feeling and tapping into those emotions. I think sometimes there
must be so much pressure to be kind of this
perfect figure and to be carrying an entire season. So
I feel like sometimes when you try to be the best,
you don't end up being that because you're not actually
being true to your relationships, true to yourself. And I
(25:46):
feel like it also just put a really negative spin
on just physical intimacy, and we're all adults, and I
don't think there need to be such a stigma around
intimacy and such a stigma around any decisions that were made,
because it made everyone kind of on a disadvantage. Between
all the women, Yeah, it's a weird you know, you
have great insight into this um because it is a
(26:10):
weird week. It's and it's also a very vulnerable week,
you know, for everybody involved, the lead and the women,
and I know from like past experience, you're going into
this week and you know what it, you know represents,
and it's the first time that you know, cameras get
taken away. It's the first time that maybe you don't
have like a nice date planned and you don't have
(26:35):
even a time restriction on how late the date's gonna go.
Like you you typically know there's an out and so
you can ask some questions and have a conversation and
then if you're not interested, you know you're going home
to your own, separate place at night. This is a
weird week for most people because there is vulnerability, and
there is this intimacy, no matter at what level, and
it you start to feel a lot of pressure. I
(26:55):
think the leads do, because you're right, they start to
feel like they have to be perfect and if they're
not perfect, none of these people are going to be
interested in them anymore. And then they're all going to
go home because yeah, once you know the cameras go
down and the door closes. We're all very human and
none of us have it all together. I personally felt
like it was one of my favorite experiences because I
(27:15):
took the time off camera and so on to just
really ask questions back and forth. I think it's nice
to have ample time and it feels like you're back
in a real kind of dating environment. It feels like
you're out of this simulate environment of the show. So
it feels really nice to be able to stay with
someone for hours. It feels nice to be able to,
like see I think people can always be authentic on camera,
(27:37):
but there's just like a different feeling when you're when
you're off camera and when you're sitting there for just
fifteen hours in a row talking. So for me, fortunate
that week is looked at in such a negative light
and like things happen that we're obviously outside of my
control and so on. Because in the actual date itself,
I really enjoyed my time with Zach and I really
enjoyed speaking kind of into the night and not sleeping
(27:59):
and having kind of a romantic date like that, because
it feels really nice to be able to just have
uninterrupted time with someone that you're potentially going to be
getting engaged to. So do you leave that evening having
(28:22):
any doubts? I think it was hard for me with
my family because I felt like after that evening we
had spoken about family, and we'd spoken about things that
are obviously my family so important to me, and I
just found out more information on how kind of the
date went because I obviously couldn't see the conversation that
they were having with with Zach, and I think I
felt a little bit doubtful about how supportive my parents
(28:44):
were and how they were feeling about everything, as well
as obviously everyone got to know my brother, and I
don't make decisions based off my family, but I also
don't want to make decisions that would they would be
just so again, Sir or So has been like that
was something we had to overcome and that was something
that we had to have more conversations about. Do you
(29:04):
think if you would have ended up with Zach at
the end and you brought him home to your brother,
do you think the vibe changes or do you think
it's similar. I think my brother would become more understanding
over time, like I think my only was is very
loving and my family was supportive of me being pursued
in this relationship, and they're just happy for me to
be happy. But I think they had a hard time
(29:26):
conceptualizing finding a relationship on an experience like this, And
I think they had just very natural qualms and natural
hesitations that I feel like any any parent would have,
including myself, if my daughter, we're going on over my son. Yeah,
it's it's totally fair for families to feel weird about
(29:46):
their loved ones coming back and being like, yeah, I'm good,
I might get engaged at this and everybody'd been like,
I mean, that's cool, We're happy for you, but this
is this is not what we expected. And I feel
like I've lost all sense of any type of control
or knowledge of where you're at in your life. It's
a weird. It's it's a very weird few months for
them them. I'm sure, for sure you sign up for
(30:08):
the experience. Your family doesn't. Yeah, and they are. I'm
for a generation, so my parents have never experienced anything
like this and never even thought this would be something
that I would be doing obviously, so I think it's
hard for them to wrap their head around. I think
they still don't care what the show is, but I
think in the end they would have been happy for me.
But I felt like it would take a lot more
kind of conversations and sit down, so they would have
(30:29):
seemed more like proof of the relationship in a way,
as did your brother growing up when you brought people home.
Was this also a similar vibe that he would give
the people you're dating or is this just because this
environment was so weird combination? But he was always like this, Okay,
my brother always tried to grill people and put them
(30:52):
on the spot and things like that. It's it's in
his nature to be protective and it comes from a
place of love that I always kind of hesitant bringing
people home because he also just wants the best for me,
And I don't think anyone can know what the best
for you is except for yourself. So people can create
ideas for the partner you should end up with, but
they'll never know better than you do. But it comes
(31:14):
from a place of love for you always. Yeah, I
think he. I mean, my entire family comes from such
a place of love. They're so supportive in any decision
I make, in any relationship that I've been in. But
They're always going to be honest, and I think honesty
is more important than sugarcoating things or putting a nice
spin on things, because I think honesty is what gets
(31:34):
you through to a long term relationship. You want to
be able to be honest with your partner. You want
your partner to It's not about your partner passing a test,
but you want to see if your partner makes the effort.
With your family, that's say, if it's more difficult, and
I appreciate it Zach not really being kind of scared
of the interaction or scared of my brother. That's scared,
but I appreciate him continuing on in the relationship and
(31:55):
not letting that be such a tarrent. Yeah, that's fair.
That's fair. Well, switching gear towards the end of this
time with you, and again I want to say thanks
for coming on here. I know life's you know, spinning quickly.
You've got a lot of requests, and so thanks for
coming on here. But I'll last a few final questions
kind of about the show. You know, after you after
(32:19):
the final Rows moment, a lot of people were vying
for you to be the next Batchelorette. They're trying to
figure out how that could all work because a lot
of people, you know, obviously love Charity and I'm really
are excited for the next season, and that's not being
taken away from here, but they wanted you to be
there as well. If they would have asked you, would
you have said yes? Is the first question. No. I
(32:41):
think it's a lot of pressure for me personally to
take something like that on. And I also feel like
it the experience feels like a long time ago, but
also doesn't at the same time, and I don't think
i'd be ready to be thrown back into environment like
that and pursuing multiple relationships in this kind of a setting.
Did you feel this way after, I mean, say, a
month after you know you're you got sent back home
(33:03):
and you're looking at the world and you know you're
waiting for the show to air. Were you pretty confident
at that point? Yeah, I'm not if they ask me,
because you had to assume that you were in the running, like,
I'm not doing this. I try to be open minded
enough because initially I didn't even want to do the show,
and I was trying to be I was very reticent
to participate in anything like this and I really had
(33:26):
predominantly a great experience and it was really great getting
to know Zach. So I didn't want to say definitely no,
I want to keep it option, but I think it's
a lot of pressure, and I think Charity is handling
I'm sure she's handling yourself beautifully, and she is such
an incredible person, and I honestly don't like that people
are constantly saying that I should be about to writting
(33:47):
all these things because I'm personally so happy for her,
and I don't think it needs to be two women
pinned against each other or any any conversation like that.
So I think I haven't really liked the commentary online,
even though it's coming from a positive place. I think
we'll should throw their support towards Charity, who is the
president bachelorette. Yeah sure, yeah, I mean I think I
think people are just really excited about you both, Like
what a compliment to the two of you. But Charity
(34:09):
is gonna rock it, like we have no doubt, right,
She's gonna be great. I'm so excited for a Charity
to find a fiance, and I know that there's going
to be guys throwing themselves at hard Yeah. Yeah, we're
pumped to watch it here. So then the next question is,
would you consider going on Paradise a lot less pressure
than anything you've done so far or being the bachelorette.
If they called you and said we'd love to see
(34:29):
you on the beach, is that something you'd be interested in.
I'm hesitant, but I'm always going to keep my options open.
And it's not a no, but it's a yes. So
I was ambiguous. I got to ask this because my
co host it's her favorite question. That's one of mine too,
but I just don't ask it because I let her
do it. If you went to Paradise, is there somebody
in Bachelor Nation right now that you are interested in
(34:54):
or would enjoy seeing walk down the stairs to the beach? Um?
As of right now, I don't think so. It's interesting,
but people usually have like a one person see them m. Yeah.
Usually people who have come on the show know the show,
and so they've typically watched the show previously and they're
(35:15):
sitting at a place and being like, yes, now that
i've you're different in the best of ways, and I
want to say this, like you might be the first
person I've ever interviewed on this show and the six
years of doing this that I really believe, you know,
if they were asked to be the Bachelor, I would
have said no based on it not being right for
you and not feeling like it would have been appropriate
(35:36):
for the season of life you're in, and also that
you're sitting here going I would think about Paradise like
you actually think you would think about it, and you
might say no to it, knowing the season of life
you're in. Some people just say it. I get the
sense that you've you're pretty confident and where you're at
in life right now. Yeah, And I think that I'm
(35:57):
still doing a lot of personal work right now. I
think that people don't understand what it's like to kind
of be on the back end of this experience. You
are talking about yourself twenty four hours a day. You
are getting to the real root cause of why you're
actually not in a relationship and what kind of previous relationships.
And I had to take a lot of ownership in
(36:17):
my past relationships and what had happened to have those
relationships kind of dissolve. And I didn't realize how responsible
I was and how much I was kind of the
arbiter of my own kind of situations falling apart, and
I feel like the experience taught me so much about myself,
and I had so much personal growth even outside of
(36:38):
my growth and my relationship with Zach, So I feel
like it's still an ongoing process for me. And it's
very difficult to be kind of disconnected from everything in
your life, disconnected form everything you know, and having to
truly follow your gut and your intuition and those you're
talking about yourself all day, and you resurface things that
happened to you in middle school that you didn't even
(37:00):
I's affected you or bothered you or brought you to
the place where you are. I didn't realize how kind
of inadvertently cold I'd become in certain ways, and how
I push people away in relationships. And I think it
took Zack a lot. It took Zack and I a
minute as well to kind of get through that. In
a way I was always pining, I became this kind
of mysterious person, this person that I wanted to project outwards.
(37:22):
And I feel like the show really allowed me, and
these conversations that I was having with Zach allowed me
to work through a lot of past issues, in particularly
romantic issues. So it takes a real toll to do
an experience like this. It takes a lot, and you
can turn that into a net positive. So I really
look back on my experience feeling like I've gotten to
(37:42):
know myself in a way I never anticipated before. But
it takes a lot out of you to do something
like that. It takes a lot out of you to
put yourself out there in that way, and it is
like a very emotionally, physically and so on taxing experience.
So what are you doing? What does life look like now? Then?
I mean, you're learning this stuff. It kind of puts
you in a liminal space like you're kind of sitting
(38:03):
between two worlds for a bit as you're processing in
realizing what you're learning about yourself. And then where do
you go from here? How do you implement these things?
What are you doing for everybody listening who feels very
similar to you and that they're learning something about themselves
and they want to figure out how to implement it
into their lives and actually make real positive change. As
(38:26):
somebody that I'm picking up on is very thoughtful, how
are you working through this? I think it's about forgiving
yourself for where you're at, and forgiving yourself for anything
you might have done in your plast to bring you
to this point. And I think it doesn't necessarily take
getting to a breaking point to start your own personal growth,
(38:47):
but that can be little things each day. I feel
like for me, a big issue was taking everything personally.
I used to put myself in every single situation. I
thought I was a very sensitive person, but actually I
was leaning a narcissistic because I was putting myself in
every scenario and taking a lot of words and actions
of other people that are living their own lives personally.
(39:08):
So I think it's the best advice that I can
ever give is to take yourself out of kind of
being in your own way. I felt like I learned
a lot from the experience because I saw how much
I had self sabotaged in my past, and how much
people were even in the experience, self sabotaging even before
their relationship got to a breaking point, with Zach in particular.
(39:28):
So I feel like it's about being kinder to yourself
and knowing that every everyone's kind of a work in
progress in a way, and there's a much more you
can do to kind of progress as a person, but
to also know how to take yourself out of situations
and understand everyone's going through it too. So when someone
like lashes out at you should always stand up for
(39:50):
yourself and you should always make it clear that you
have your own personal set of boundary, but also to
understand that, like, where is this person coming from, and
why are they actually acting this way? Why are they
so upset? It's not a about me, So it's about
taking yourself out of the equations and understanding how everyone's
probably going through the same motions and feelings that you are.
You know, the show is interesting because people go on
(40:13):
to it for a thousand different reasons. You don't really
know what you're getting into. Nobody really does you get
into it. And there's not one person that I've met
that hasn't been changed. And then there's also not one
person I've met that if they didn't that if they
allowed the show to change them in a positive way,
it didn't. It did like people got people were changed
(40:35):
in a positive way from the show because they did
this introspection and because they dug deep, and because they
gave themselves the forgiveness and because they were criticized and
watched under a microscope dating somebody. When you come through that,
I feel like a lot of people gain a sense
of confidence. And hopefully that's what people's experiences are, because
the show can be really hard on people too, But
(40:57):
I hope they come out of it and just allowing
themselves to be forgiven a little bit because they've done
something really difficult and came through it, and that's something
to be proud of. Well, final question for you. We
talked about your career before the show, we talked about
your experience on the show. We talked about a very
(41:17):
difficult ending to the show just in general for so
many people. And now you're sitting here and you've shared
a little bit about what you foresee the next season
of your life being. But what can people who are
fans of yours, who listen to the show, what can
they be looking forward to from you? What do you
foresee your next steps being in life? And what are
(41:40):
you looking forward to accomplishing. I mean, after this experience,
I'm looking forward to being in a relationship. I'm looking
forward to now applying everything that I kind of learned
from my relationship with Zach, because if a relationship doesn't
come to fruition or you don't get engaged, doesn't mean
you can't learn from it. So I want to take
my experience wood Zac and kind of implement that into
(42:02):
my next relationship. And I feel like I'm much more
open now to dating and I'm much more open to
really being I hate the word vulnerable now, but there's
no other word to use. Why do you hate it?
I just feel like it's so over to use now world,
it's only in your world. Everybody else still enjoys it.
You just got it said to you about a thousand
times in like a two month span. For me, it's
(42:23):
about now entering my next relationship and entering like dating
situations and truly being open minded. I thought I was.
I thought I did the personal growth, but I think
after this experience, I'm very ready to date and I'm
very ready to put myself out there. We wish that
for you. We're excited to watch you. You're one of
(42:45):
our favorites. Really appreciate you coming on. I would love
for you to be a co host with either Ashley
or myself sometime when we need one, because both of
us travel a little bit and she's a mother now
and so sometimes she has to be out. But your insight,
your wisdom, your poison. Doing that during the season and
now is something really admirable. And so keep being you,
(43:11):
keep doing you, and thanks for coming on the show.
We really appreciate it. Ohsome well, thank you so much
for having me. That was another almost famous in depth
episode with Ariel, somebody who became a fan favorite on
this season of the Bachelor. We hope to see her
in Paradise. From that interview, I don't know if we will,
(43:32):
and I think that's probably a good thing. Like I
think she's gonna make the decision that's best for her,
even though selfishly we would all love to see her
fine love on the beach. But until then, if you
want to catch Ariel season of The Bachelor, you can
find that on Hulu. She's also very entertaining on TikTok.
(43:53):
You can follow her at a F R E N
K E L on On TikTok, you can follow her
there until next time. I've been Ben, We'll talk soon.
Follow the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous podcasts on
iHeartRadio or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.
This is Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous in Depth.
All right, today we're joined on the Almost Famous podcast
for a very special episode Ariel. Welcome. Hi. You have
been doing the rounds here recently. You've been talking about
this show a lot. Are you sick of it yet?
(00:21):
I could never get sick of talking about the show.
That's not true, I promise you that's not true. I
think it's nice to be able to talk about the experience,
and I feel like from each conversation you get a
different take from different people and they ask different questions.
So it hasn't become redundant for me yet, but maybe
one day I'll get tired of it. Well, you know,
(00:42):
it is a cool experience. And I will say, as
I was prepping for this, you have you have an
experience that not everybody can can relate with that came
onto the show and then have been removed from the show.
You pretty much personally came out, in my opinion, and unscathed.
Like nobody is hating on Ariio. Everybody loves Ariel. How
(01:04):
does that feel? I think there will always these some haters,
some okay majority. I was given amazing advice kind of
after the experience about how to handle everything, because going
in I kind of didn't know what to anticipate, and
everything that I might have anticipated was very different once
I was actually in there. So I was given great
(01:25):
advice on how to handle everything once because there's this
interim period of we kind of leave. I left Thailand
and then for a long time, I don't know what
anything's going to look like, what's going to play back,
what the episodes are going to be like. So someone
told me that no matter what people say, I have
to keep being authentically myself and sticking true to what
I know of myself. So even if people are praising you,
(01:47):
if they're saying really nice things, don't take that to heart.
But also then don't take the insults too much to
heart either. So I feel like there's always something negative
that people can say to me. There's always something that
can be said in any capacity, But of putting so
much weight on the compliments, I'm also not going to
put so much weight there, so I won't put weight
on the negative commentary. So I appreciate what everyone's saying.
(02:08):
Everyone's been so sweet, so nice, and like, I love
how people have been reaching out like individually, even through
like social media and stuff, and even a Nashville I
run into people on the street and they had such
kind things to say. But I try to like still
stay true to myself, so even if I hear insults
or hear someone say something, because people will always, no
matter who you are, have something negative to say. So
(02:29):
I feel like I try to ignore that and keep
being myself no matter like what people say, not trying
to shift that. Who gave you this advice a friend
of mine that I'm actually well traveling? Oh really, So
like they weren't somebody from the show No No, But
when they told you this, it just felt like, No,
I needed this reminder. It wasn't someone I was super
(02:53):
close to. But they said. Let's say someone says that
I'm unintelligent, for example, and I'll be trying to prove
that person wrong instead of just being intelligent. So whatever
the insult or anything is, you're always going to be
trying to disprove what people say. So it's better to
actually just be yourself because then that way, even the
compliments will actually ring true and the insults won't. So
(03:16):
it's better to do that than to try to combat
what people are saying online and I try to honestly
only filter in the positive commentary for the most part.
You know, the other thing that happens. It feels like
when you're saying this, you wouldn't lose yourself, which is
so easy to happen in this experience. Right, you're in
it right now. But you went from zero to one hundred, right,
I mean a year ago you weren't getting recognized in Nashville,
(03:38):
or maybe you were and you could correct me there,
but now you are, And it's so easy. There's so
many different factors that can cause you to lose who
you are and years later you look back and say,
what happened? What was all this about? Yeah? Definitely, And
I wanted to make sure that I was being authentic
to myself through the experience. And I wasn't going to
waiver on that, even in moments of being uncomfortable or
(04:00):
so I didn't feel like myself. It's always important to
kind of go back to your center of gravity one
when you can, well, I want to talk about who
you are as a person. This is an in depth
episode with Ariel. I was Ariel, right, that's how you
say it, Ariel. Okay. So there's like a longer. Yeah,
I'm I'm gonna I'm gonna do that correctly seventy five
(04:22):
percent of the time, I promise, Okay, from here on out,
it's going to be right. But these are most listened
to episodes here at the Almost Famous Podcast because I
think people really like to know who they are watching
and who they are seeing on television. So let's start
at the beginning before or not at the beginning necessarily,
but who were you before this show? What was your job?
(04:44):
What were your hobbies? What are your friend group like?
Give us a little insight. Should I start for the beginning?
I started my college days whenever it feels like it
matters the most. Well. I grew up in New York.
After New York, I moved to DC for school. I
went to Dow George Washington, and I actually made my
closest friends there. I don't think I had as many
(05:05):
close relationships with people in high school, like typical bully story.
But I really made like my lifelong, like forever kind
of partner friends in college and I still we're kind
of in a group of four, and then many people
outside of that. And then I graduated college and actually
moved to LA to pursue a job in entertainment. I
(05:27):
worked at a talent agency and it's like grad school,
but it is a very intense experience and I learned
a lot in two years. I then worked in hospitality.
I've kind of switched around a lot of different jobs.
I most recently was working for The Financial Times, and
then I switched to freelance marketing. So I basically now
(05:50):
work with brands, building brands up, doing all the marketing
strategy for them from the beauty space to the fashion space,
and also through word of mouth through anyone that actually
wants to work with me based on my previous experience.
So uh, and it's it's a question that so many
get asked at this stage, Now do you plan on
continuing to work at the job that you have before?
So I now work in freelance. I'm going to keep
(06:10):
that job as long as I can because I really
like building brands from the ground up and helping people
visualize their strategy. I was able to basically apply everything
I've learned. I've worked since I was sixteen years old.
I over the summer. Was intered at the first time
when I was sixteen at a PR firm, and I
just loved the rush of like being surrounded by people
that are kind of running around the clock. I was
with all twenty six year olds at that time, and
(06:32):
I just felt like writing copy and getting involved. And
to me, I always prioritize even work over schooling and
things like that. So I interned every single year when
I was actually in school through both kind of like
different semesters of the year and then also in the summer.
So then, now, do you feel like your experience on
the show? Has it given you any new insights? Do
(06:54):
you you feel like it's going to help you? I mean,
I would imagine. I don't want to assume, because most
like good people don't. But you didn't go into this
show thing hey, this is going to help my career.
But now you're seeing the you know, the backside of
the show in what opportunities are available. Do you think
it's going to help in this next chapter? I don't
necessarily think so's it can hurt and depending on the
(07:16):
job opportunity. But I'm more so I'm less interested in
the corporate world and I kind of left that and
I'm more interested in like the startup and freelancing space,
so that it can hurt you in more corporate environments
because people question your participation. So I actually really had
to think about it before I went into the show,
because that could really hurt my chances of going back
(07:37):
into kind of a large corporation and even the previous
work experience that I had. So I really had to
be meticulous about it, think about it, and so far
I think when people search me there won't be kind
of negative commentary or anything like that that they see
from my experience on the show. But I also had
to be really careful about what kind of roles I
want to pivot into now if I do decide to
(07:57):
go back, it's like the startup space. Yeah no, you again.
You carried yourself tremendously on the show, and you stayed
authentic to who you are. I think that's a big
reason why you are such a fan favorite, and you
have been busy talking about the show since the show.
Let's give us a little more insight here. If I
did my research correctly, your national Ellie is Ukrainian. Correct, Yeah,
(08:21):
I'm Ukrainian Jewish. Ukrainian Jewish. You grew up in New
York City, as you said, you moved to LA but
you are a world traveler. Also, you do enjoy travel.
That is a big part of your life, correct, Yeah,
it always has been. Through work. I traveled a lot
for most of my jobs, and I also worked for
a company that was primarily based in London, and then
a previous company as well that was between LA and
(08:41):
New York, but we traveled all over. Because it was
in the hospitality space, we did a lot of on
the groundwork where we checked out different hotels and restaurants
and so on to kind of see what the market
is like. And in between every job I've made, start
to do a big trip, usually by myself. Again, between
when I left the talent agency space and was moving
into hospitality, I went to Asia on my own because
(09:03):
I knew I wouldn't have that like two month period
to have off again. So I think it's important to
travel to see the world, and if you can do
it within a certain budget as well. I like the
challenge of being able to do so. You're you you definitely,
I mean least we got this sense that you're adventurous.
You're One of your final dates was Zach was eating
(09:26):
insects and we said here at the almost famous podcast, Um,
how cool of a moment. That was because traditionally on
the show or other shows, you see people traveled to
different cultures and kind of get grossed out by whatever
is being put in front of you or whatever, and
it's it's always a very awkward, I feel like scene
because it's it's it's disrespectful in my mind. And you
(09:50):
especially did not disrespect you dove in and you enjoyed
it and you talked about good it was. I thought
it was a really great moment for the show to
see somebody respect culture in different people's lifestyles like you did.
I think you always have to. And it's also smart
sometimes to do research before you go somewhar to know
the customs because even a handshake can be disrespectful in
(10:11):
certain cultures. So I think it's very important to do
as much research as you can, no matter which new
city you're going to and country as well. Yeah, well,
thank you. I guess it was a great thing to
see on television. Well, I want to dive into your
time on the show. Now we've got a picture of
who you are when you got signed up, when you
(10:32):
agreed to come on the show, were you already interested
in Zach was this already something or in somebody that
you were intrigued by, or is this just a new
experience to have a lot of fun with. No, I
was definitely I found out. I signed up for the
experience not knowing that it would be Zach, but I
found out before going in. So were you excited? Yeah,
(10:53):
I was excited. Okay. I definitely was guarded coming in,
and I was cautious because I didn't know what to
think of the experience and what to think of someone
kind of trying to pursue a relationship in that kind
of a dynamic. But the more I got to know him,
the more excited I got, and the more I kind
of felt like, yes, he wasn't part of like the
typical kind of I don't really have a type, honestly,
(11:15):
I like to say that, but he's definitely not in
line with like anyone I've dated in the last few years.
And he really reminded me of a lot of the
relationships I had in college, and his kindness and his
sweetness and the way he was really like a great
listener and made me feel comfortable in such an uncomfortable environment. Yeah,
I got more excited as I got to know him,
because I don't like to really base anything off of
(11:36):
what you see on someone on television or what they
might be like, because you might be disappointed or they
might just be different when you meet them. So I
was very excited as much as I could be, but
I like to like limit my emotions until I really
meet someone to get to know them. So I mean,
you know, I think one thing that we've been critical
of here and we said, oh, we don't know if
(11:56):
it's always fair to Zach is you know, his listening
abilities was not exactly shown on television. But we had
Jess on a week or so ago and she said
he was a good listener. You're saying he's a good listener,
can you if you don't mind maybe like supporting the
dude a little bit and validating that, yes, he did
(12:17):
actually listen and he wasn't just quick to cut the
conversation off and move on. Of course, he was a
great listener. And I think that people kind of said
this previously, but people put such an emphasis on empathy
and use these words that they actually don't align with themselves.
You don't have to have the same experience as someone
to be there for them and to make them feel
(12:38):
better about their experience, or just to listen, you can
give off a sense of sympathy, because those are two
very different things. So I felt like Zach was very
sympathetic to different people's experiences. But there's also a limitation
to how much you can really be there for someone
that you're getting to know on such a short period
of time, especially in the first few weeks, because ultimately,
like these people don't know each other, so it's very
(12:59):
hard to sit there and have and hear about a
really major life event of someone's and be able to
contribute and comment back so much. Because also if you
interrupt them or you don't have a good pace in
how you're actually having that dialogue, it can come off
as disrespectful if you're like too engaged, and you kind
of also don't have experience in what they've kind of
gone through. So I think that's a lot of pressure
(13:21):
to put on someone to always be asking the right
questions without even a license therapist. He's not a psychologist,
you know, he doesn't understand how to dissect these things.
He's also someone getting to know someone. So I think,
especially as the season progressed and he got to know
people better, he was able to get more of an
understanding of their experience and also that connection was there. Yeah,
(13:42):
And so when did you feel like your connection with
him really spark Then? When did it go from being
interested and intrigued to being like, this is somebody now
I want to pursue in our one on one Estonia.
I feel like that was really a turning point for me.
I think it was really nice that we were able
to have a slow build and a slow progression because
it was it allowed us to kind of enjoy the
(14:03):
environment and the difficulty of it because I was able
to see him slowly and slowly each week, and I
kind of feel like that's how we were able to
get to the right pace by the Uestolia date and
then we really like transcended everything by that point in
(14:26):
your mind, I mean, after that date, did you believe
and could you first see yourself being with Zach at
the end? I could, Yeah, And I think, you know,
it's obviously it's a little bit of well you've been again,
You've been praised by Bachelor Nation for your poise, but
it's a little bit of a it's a sad storyline
(14:49):
that I feel like probably most people now are asking
you about like the last you know episode of the show.
It's kind of the marking on your storyline because your
story was incredible with Zach from start to finish through
this season, and it did it. It kind of ramped
up and then it continued and at the end, nobody
that was watching could really tell, like who was going
(15:10):
to be there in the end, but it wasn't you.
And so people are asking you about that moment. Not
to jump completely ahead, but when that last Row ceremony
existed and you had this such a great thing, you
had such a great thing going with Zach, were you
surprised that you're going to be going home? Or did
you pretty much foresee it happening in the overnight that
this was your last week. I didn't see it on
(15:33):
our date in the overnight because I was the first
date and I felt like we had such honestly a
great time talking and talking about our features and things
like that. But I was very kind of honest about
what I was looking for and honest about the way
I was feeling as well, and I kind of forgot
about the other dynamics. I forgot about the other women.
I forgot that there was other people there, because you're
also not surrounded by the women at this point, so
(15:54):
you don't know how their dates are going, you don't
know how their connections are progressing, and you kind of
forget that it's not just you Zach in a way.
So I was initially shocked to be going home, but
at the actual rose ceremony, I noticed that he wasn't
making eye contact, that there was a long speech given
about what it transpired. I knew it wasn't related to me,
So I was able to pick up on the fact
that I was going home in that moment, but honestly
(16:16):
forgot that that was an option walking into the rose ceremony,
just because of how our date went. It's interesting, most
people we talked to have a pretty good feeling that
last week that that was that was it for them,
like they'd be back on a planehead and home. And
you are saying that you realize that at the rose
(16:36):
ceremony itself, that when he wasn't making into contact, you're
picking up on his body language that this was going
to be it for you. I also had to remembered
that he had other strong connections because you get so
wrapped up in your date and your experience with this person,
so you forget that they you know, you objectively know
that they're going on another date, that there's the other
(16:57):
women there, but seeing the other women as well, I
had remembered how strong those connections were from kind of
a very early point because we had progressed so late,
kind of in the process. By Estonia that was kind
of the last one on one, So I felt like
I had been reminded of the reality of everything so
versus being so wrapped up and caught up in our
date and our experience in our relationship, because I try
(17:19):
to always look at our individual experience versus comparing myself
to the other women. And I was also throughout the
experience able to gauge more what the other relationships were
like based on the women coming back talking about their date,
talking about the connection. So I think being also separate
from the women not being in the same like hotels
them and vicinity, I just kind of was reminded of
(17:39):
the reality of everything while the rose ceremony is happening. Yeah,
So I mean, are you close with the other women
with gabbing, Katie, Were you close with them going into it? Yeah?
I was very close to them from the really beginning. Honestly,
it was kind of the three of us being very
close throughout the entire experience, and I also had close
relationships with the other women, but I had a particular
(17:59):
close Cicadian Gabby. Yeah, so it is a weird you know,
people don't always know this when they're watching it, but
it is a weird week because you go from kind
of being in this house with you know, all of
these people, talking, playing cards, doing whatever you do to
entertain yourself, and then all of a sudden, before you
know it, you're at your own home and then you're
(18:22):
isolated for you know, I think for me it was
around like a week and a half, like almost ten
days of being alone, just entertaining myself while at the
same time still trying to remember that I'm like dating
this person and I am on a show. But it
gets it's a really weird dynamic at the end. I
think it's very isolating by the end, and I think
(18:44):
not being able. It's funny because throughout the entire experience,
it's very overwhelming to be surrounded by so many women
at once, to have all these dates and all these things,
and that can breed elements of jealousy that can breed
elements of kind of comparison. But it's actually really hard.
I think it would be very difficult as well to
have the women come back after their dates, because I
know that's happened in the past. Yeah, I know Zach
(19:05):
definitely wanted to keep us separate, and that was much
better for us objectively, but it was very difficult to
also feel so isolated in those in those moments, in
those points, and you're you're disconnected from from your friends,
from your family, from anyone really, so you're just a
left alone with your thoughts, and that's not always the
best headspace and feeling to have. Yeah, I wonder you
(19:25):
don't have to answer it. But I'm just curious now
that you say that, because in past seasons, most of
the seasons here is recently, we've seen the women come
back from these dates or the men come back from
these dates and be around each other. I wonder with
this particular scenario, obviously, with what happened with Zach, I
(19:47):
wonder what the dynamic would have been like, if it
would have changed things, if it would have made the
things more tumultuous, or if it would have made things
easier because everybody could have talked in one space. What
do you I mean if you want to answer it,
or if you can't answer, what do you think? I
think we all had so much respect for each other,
and we still do now despite the things that had happened,
(20:07):
and we would never blame one another for anything. So
and the way we're able to be so happy for
Katie now and have such a normal dynamic and relationship.
I just think that if we had been able to
have a conversation and it was more so even privatized,
that could have been beneficial to all of us. Yea
to have that awareness, because I think there was a
lack of awareness of what had happened, And I think
(20:30):
for me, I'll only speak on my own experience. For
me personally, standing at the Rose ceremony and not knowing
what had happened or what Zach was talking about, and
then being sent home and still not knowing for a
long period of time, I think that would have definitely
eased a lot of my own confusion and my own
lack of understanding of anything that's transpired and tile and
outside of me. How long were you confused for? When
(20:52):
did you find out how did you find out? When
did stuff start making sense? I found out a lot
of information in watching it, So I think that was
the really difficult part in watching everything back, we all
found out the full scope of what had happened, and
I think that was really hard. That episode was the
hardest for me to personally watch, not because it was
(21:12):
necessarily even just me being sent home and seeing the
difficulty get the breakup. I feel like everything was overshadowed
for something that I felt like took away from all
of our relationships in different ways, and I just didn't
like the way anything was handled. What were your emotions
watching it? Were you angry? Were you sad? I went
through a wave of a lot of different emotions. I
was very confused, and then I was really sad watching
(21:33):
it and seeing that even when you see kind of
us parting and me saying goodbye to Zack and all
these things, I felt like it quickly shifted to another topic.
So it was really sad to see that my relationship
was kind of overshadowed by a single week and a
single experience. And yes, things are really poorly handled, but
I felt like there was so much like kind of
(21:54):
beauty in that relationship and we had gotten so close
at that point, and I didn't like how everything was
position and so I thought that was really difficult to
see and difficult to watch. And then I was angry
as well in terms of the whole week being centered
around sex and how things that should have been private
were publicized. So I was also angry for my friends
that I was angry for myself, and then I was
(22:17):
sadness kind of Again, It's tough because we got to
walk a thin line here between being judgmental and critical
but also understanding. You know that we have been able
now to look back on this moment, and there was
So there's a lot of complexity in this moment because
I really do believe Zach thought he was doing the
right thing, like I really and I think his intentions
were really good. I think he meant well by it.
(22:39):
But I think all of us could see watching it
and preparing for especially those who have been on the
show before, that hey, this is going to be really
hard to navigate, Like you are making statements early on
that you don't know if you're gonna be able to
keep so for you, but I can I can say
that and judge that and criticize that from my couch,
(23:00):
I have no play you know, role in this at
all other than talking to people like you on this podcast.
But as you look back on it now, how do
you wish this would have gone? Like? What do you
wish Zach would have done that week? Knowing that, okay,
he didn't believe that having sex with any anybody was
going to be like he thought the better option would
be to keep that off the table for the healthiness
(23:22):
of all relationships involved. I think that was his intention.
How would you have liked this to play out? Then?
Between the you know four of you? I just wish
he had a conversation with all of us that was private.
When it came to intimacy. I think there should be
discretion de quorum in that, and I don't think that
should be kind of publicized in any way. I think
(23:42):
in previous season there's always been like this question mark
of what happened in the fantasy suites. Think I hate
that terminology what happened in the overnights? So I wish
that things were handled with privacy, and I also wish
that there were like a very one on one conversation
with each person to gauge how they're feeling to people
come to that conclusion doesn't matter feeling on it, And
(24:03):
I respected Zach's attentions and I respected I think he
tried to approach the week with kind of a noble ideation.
He felt very like, this decision is noble and I'm
helping everyone, But he actually kind of hurt everyone by
making a unilateral decision without everyone else. So each relationship
is so different, each person requires such different things. We're
(24:24):
all very different personality types as well, and I wish
he honored all of those relationships by having a kind
of one on one conversation with each person and not
approaching the week in a unified way. Well, I mean,
for somebody that you've complimented here on the show and
other places, and for somebody you have respected and that
you built a relationship with, and you know fairly well,
(24:45):
why do you think he felt like it was his
ability to make this decision for everybody else. I doubt
that he thought about the repercussions of this, and I
doubt that he ever anticipated the week would play out
the way that it did. Again, I think it's kind
of like a falsifi nobility, because I think he was
trying to protect everyone. I think he always comes from
like an earnest and genuine place. I actually don't think
(25:06):
he had malintent at all, and I don't think he's
just a malicious person in general. And I just can
authentically say that based on my experience with him and
based on the person that I got to know. So
I think that he was trying to kind of please
everyone and trying to live up to this like persona
of being like a really great kind of bachelor and
(25:26):
a great person versus just seeing how everyone else was
feeling and tapping into those emotions. I think sometimes there
must be so much pressure to be kind of this
perfect figure and to be carrying an entire season. So
I feel like sometimes when you try to be the best,
you don't end up being that because you're not actually
being true to your relationships, true to yourself. And I
(25:46):
feel like it also just put a really negative spin
on just physical intimacy, and we're all adults, and I
don't think there need to be such a stigma around
intimacy and such a stigma around any decisions that were made,
because it made everyone kind of on a disadvantage. Between
all the women, Yeah, it's a weird you know, you
have great insight into this um because it is a
(26:10):
weird week. It's and it's also a very vulnerable week,
you know, for everybody involved, the lead and the women,
and I know from like past experience, you're going into
this week and you know what it, you know represents,
and it's the first time that you know, cameras get
taken away. It's the first time that maybe you don't
have like a nice date planned and you don't have
(26:35):
even a time restriction on how late the date's gonna go.
Like you you typically know there's an out and so
you can ask some questions and have a conversation and
then if you're not interested, you know you're going home
to your own, separate place at night. This is a
weird week for most people because there is vulnerability, and
there is this intimacy, no matter at what level, and
it you start to feel a lot of pressure. I
(26:55):
think the leads do, because you're right, they start to
feel like they have to be perfect and if they're
not perfect, none of these people are going to be
interested in them anymore. And then they're all going to
go home because yeah, once you know the cameras go
down and the door closes. We're all very human and
none of us have it all together. I personally felt
like it was one of my favorite experiences because I
(27:15):
took the time off camera and so on to just
really ask questions back and forth. I think it's nice
to have ample time and it feels like you're back
in a real kind of dating environment. It feels like
you're out of this simulate environment of the show. So
it feels really nice to be able to stay with
someone for hours. It feels nice to be able to,
like see I think people can always be authentic on camera,
(27:37):
but there's just like a different feeling when you're when
you're off camera and when you're sitting there for just
fifteen hours in a row talking. So for me, fortunate
that week is looked at in such a negative light
and like things happen that we're obviously outside of my
control and so on. Because in the actual date itself,
I really enjoyed my time with Zach and I really
enjoyed speaking kind of into the night and not sleeping
(27:59):
and having kind of a romantic date like that, because
it feels really nice to be able to just have
uninterrupted time with someone that you're potentially going to be
getting engaged to. So do you leave that evening having
(28:22):
any doubts? I think it was hard for me with
my family because I felt like after that evening we
had spoken about family, and we'd spoken about things that
are obviously my family so important to me, and I
just found out more information on how kind of the
date went because I obviously couldn't see the conversation that
they were having with with Zach, and I think I
felt a little bit doubtful about how supportive my parents
(28:44):
were and how they were feeling about everything, as well
as obviously everyone got to know my brother, and I
don't make decisions based off my family, but I also
don't want to make decisions that would they would be
just so again, Sir or So has been like that
was something we had to overcome and that was something
that we had to have more conversations about. Do you
(29:04):
think if you would have ended up with Zach at
the end and you brought him home to your brother,
do you think the vibe changes or do you think
it's similar. I think my brother would become more understanding
over time, like I think my only was is very
loving and my family was supportive of me being pursued
in this relationship, and they're just happy for me to
be happy. But I think they had a hard time
(29:26):
conceptualizing finding a relationship on an experience like this, And
I think they had just very natural qualms and natural
hesitations that I feel like any any parent would have,
including myself, if my daughter, we're going on over my son. Yeah,
it's it's totally fair for families to feel weird about
(29:46):
their loved ones coming back and being like, yeah, I'm good,
I might get engaged at this and everybody'd been like,
I mean, that's cool, We're happy for you, but this
is this is not what we expected. And I feel
like I've lost all sense of any type of control
or knowledge of where you're at in your life. It's
a weird. It's it's a very weird few months for
them them. I'm sure, for sure you sign up for
(30:08):
the experience. Your family doesn't. Yeah, and they are. I'm
for a generation, so my parents have never experienced anything
like this and never even thought this would be something
that I would be doing obviously, so I think it's
hard for them to wrap their head around. I think
they still don't care what the show is, but I
think in the end they would have been happy for me.
But I felt like it would take a lot more
kind of conversations and sit down, so they would have
(30:29):
seemed more like proof of the relationship in a way,
as did your brother growing up when you brought people home.
Was this also a similar vibe that he would give
the people you're dating or is this just because this
environment was so weird combination? But he was always like this, Okay,
my brother always tried to grill people and put them
(30:52):
on the spot and things like that. It's it's in
his nature to be protective and it comes from a
place of love that I always kind of hesitant bringing
people home because he also just wants the best for me,
And I don't think anyone can know what the best
for you is except for yourself. So people can create
ideas for the partner you should end up with, but
they'll never know better than you do. But it comes
(31:14):
from a place of love for you always. Yeah, I
think he. I mean, my entire family comes from such
a place of love. They're so supportive in any decision
I make, in any relationship that I've been in. But
They're always going to be honest, and I think honesty
is more important than sugarcoating things or putting a nice
spin on things, because I think honesty is what gets
(31:34):
you through to a long term relationship. You want to
be able to be honest with your partner. You want
your partner to It's not about your partner passing a test,
but you want to see if your partner makes the effort.
With your family, that's say, if it's more difficult, and
I appreciate it Zach not really being kind of scared
of the interaction or scared of my brother. That's scared,
but I appreciate him continuing on in the relationship and
(31:55):
not letting that be such a tarrent. Yeah, that's fair.
That's fair. Well, switching gear towards the end of this
time with you, and again I want to say thanks
for coming on here. I know life's you know, spinning quickly.
You've got a lot of requests, and so thanks for
coming on here. But I'll last a few final questions
kind of about the show. You know, after you after
(32:19):
the final Rows moment, a lot of people were vying
for you to be the next Batchelorette. They're trying to
figure out how that could all work because a lot
of people, you know, obviously love Charity and I'm really
are excited for the next season, and that's not being
taken away from here, but they wanted you to be
there as well. If they would have asked you, would
you have said yes? Is the first question. No. I
(32:41):
think it's a lot of pressure for me personally to
take something like that on. And I also feel like
it the experience feels like a long time ago, but
also doesn't at the same time, and I don't think
i'd be ready to be thrown back into environment like
that and pursuing multiple relationships in this kind of a setting.
Did you feel this way after, I mean, say, a
month after you know you're you got sent back home
(33:03):
and you're looking at the world and you know you're
waiting for the show to air. Were you pretty confident
at that point? Yeah, I'm not if they ask me,
because you had to assume that you were in the running, like,
I'm not doing this. I try to be open minded
enough because initially I didn't even want to do the show,
and I was trying to be I was very reticent
to participate in anything like this and I really had
(33:26):
predominantly a great experience and it was really great getting
to know Zach. So I didn't want to say definitely no,
I want to keep it option, but I think it's
a lot of pressure, and I think Charity is handling
I'm sure she's handling yourself beautifully, and she is such
an incredible person, and I honestly don't like that people
are constantly saying that I should be about to writting
(33:47):
all these things because I'm personally so happy for her,
and I don't think it needs to be two women
pinned against each other or any any conversation like that.
So I think I haven't really liked the commentary online,
even though it's coming from a positive place. I think
we'll should throw their support towards Charity, who is the
president bachelorette. Yeah sure, yeah, I mean I think I
think people are just really excited about you both, Like
what a compliment to the two of you. But Charity
(34:09):
is gonna rock it, like we have no doubt, right,
She's gonna be great. I'm so excited for a Charity
to find a fiance, and I know that there's going
to be guys throwing themselves at hard Yeah. Yeah, we're
pumped to watch it here. So then the next question is,
would you consider going on Paradise a lot less pressure
than anything you've done so far or being the bachelorette.
If they called you and said we'd love to see
(34:29):
you on the beach, is that something you'd be interested in.
I'm hesitant, but I'm always going to keep my options open.
And it's not a no, but it's a yes. So
I was ambiguous. I got to ask this because my
co host it's her favorite question. That's one of mine too,
but I just don't ask it because I let her
do it. If you went to Paradise, is there somebody
in Bachelor Nation right now that you are interested in
(34:54):
or would enjoy seeing walk down the stairs to the beach? Um?
As of right now, I don't think so. It's interesting,
but people usually have like a one person see them m. Yeah.
Usually people who have come on the show know the show,
and so they've typically watched the show previously and they're
(35:15):
sitting at a place and being like, yes, now that
i've you're different in the best of ways, and I
want to say this, like you might be the first
person I've ever interviewed on this show and the six
years of doing this that I really believe, you know,
if they were asked to be the Bachelor, I would
have said no based on it not being right for
you and not feeling like it would have been appropriate
(35:36):
for the season of life you're in, and also that
you're sitting here going I would think about Paradise like
you actually think you would think about it, and you
might say no to it, knowing the season of life
you're in. Some people just say it. I get the
sense that you've you're pretty confident and where you're at
in life right now. Yeah, And I think that I'm
(35:57):
still doing a lot of personal work right now. I
think that people don't understand what it's like to kind
of be on the back end of this experience. You
are talking about yourself twenty four hours a day. You
are getting to the real root cause of why you're
actually not in a relationship and what kind of previous relationships.
And I had to take a lot of ownership in
(36:17):
my past relationships and what had happened to have those
relationships kind of dissolve. And I didn't realize how responsible
I was and how much I was kind of the
arbiter of my own kind of situations falling apart, and
I feel like the experience taught me so much about myself,
and I had so much personal growth even outside of
(36:38):
my growth and my relationship with Zach, So I feel
like it's still an ongoing process for me. And it's
very difficult to be kind of disconnected from everything in
your life, disconnected form everything you know, and having to
truly follow your gut and your intuition and those you're
talking about yourself all day, and you resurface things that
happened to you in middle school that you didn't even
(37:00):
I's affected you or bothered you or brought you to
the place where you are. I didn't realize how kind
of inadvertently cold I'd become in certain ways, and how
I push people away in relationships. And I think it
took Zack a lot. It took Zack and I a
minute as well to kind of get through that. In
a way I was always pining, I became this kind
of mysterious person, this person that I wanted to project outwards.
(37:22):
And I feel like the show really allowed me, and
these conversations that I was having with Zach allowed me
to work through a lot of past issues, in particularly
romantic issues. So it takes a real toll to do
an experience like this. It takes a lot, and you
can turn that into a net positive. So I really
look back on my experience feeling like I've gotten to
(37:42):
know myself in a way I never anticipated before. But
it takes a lot out of you to do something
like that. It takes a lot out of you to
put yourself out there in that way, and it is
like a very emotionally, physically and so on taxing experience.
So what are you doing? What does life look like now? Then?
I mean, you're learning this stuff. It kind of puts
you in a liminal space like you're kind of sitting
(38:03):
between two worlds for a bit as you're processing in
realizing what you're learning about yourself. And then where do
you go from here? How do you implement these things?
What are you doing for everybody listening who feels very
similar to you and that they're learning something about themselves
and they want to figure out how to implement it
into their lives and actually make real positive change. As
(38:26):
somebody that I'm picking up on is very thoughtful, how
are you working through this? I think it's about forgiving
yourself for where you're at, and forgiving yourself for anything
you might have done in your plast to bring you
to this point. And I think it doesn't necessarily take
getting to a breaking point to start your own personal growth,
(38:47):
but that can be little things each day. I feel
like for me, a big issue was taking everything personally.
I used to put myself in every single situation. I
thought I was a very sensitive person, but actually I
was leaning a narcissistic because I was putting myself in
every scenario and taking a lot of words and actions
of other people that are living their own lives personally.
(39:08):
So I think it's the best advice that I can
ever give is to take yourself out of kind of
being in your own way. I felt like I learned
a lot from the experience because I saw how much
I had self sabotaged in my past, and how much
people were even in the experience, self sabotaging even before
their relationship got to a breaking point, with Zach in particular.
(39:28):
So I feel like it's about being kinder to yourself
and knowing that every everyone's kind of a work in
progress in a way, and there's a much more you
can do to kind of progress as a person, but
to also know how to take yourself out of situations
and understand everyone's going through it too. So when someone
like lashes out at you should always stand up for
(39:50):
yourself and you should always make it clear that you
have your own personal set of boundary, but also to
understand that, like, where is this person coming from, and
why are they actually acting this way? Why are they
so upset? It's not a about me, So it's about
taking yourself out of the equations and understanding how everyone's
probably going through the same motions and feelings that you are.
You know, the show is interesting because people go on
(40:13):
to it for a thousand different reasons. You don't really
know what you're getting into. Nobody really does you get
into it. And there's not one person that I've met
that hasn't been changed. And then there's also not one
person I've met that if they didn't that if they
allowed the show to change them in a positive way,
it didn't. It did like people got people were changed
(40:35):
in a positive way from the show because they did
this introspection and because they dug deep, and because they
gave themselves the forgiveness and because they were criticized and
watched under a microscope dating somebody. When you come through that,
I feel like a lot of people gain a sense
of confidence. And hopefully that's what people's experiences are, because
the show can be really hard on people too, But
(40:57):
I hope they come out of it and just allowing
themselves to be forgiven a little bit because they've done
something really difficult and came through it, and that's something
to be proud of. Well, final question for you. We
talked about your career before the show, we talked about
your experience on the show. We talked about a very
(41:17):
difficult ending to the show just in general for so
many people. And now you're sitting here and you've shared
a little bit about what you foresee the next season
of your life being. But what can people who are
fans of yours, who listen to the show, what can
they be looking forward to from you? What do you
foresee your next steps being in life? And what are
(41:40):
you looking forward to accomplishing. I mean, after this experience,
I'm looking forward to being in a relationship. I'm looking
forward to now applying everything that I kind of learned
from my relationship with Zach, because if a relationship doesn't
come to fruition or you don't get engaged, doesn't mean
you can't learn from it. So I want to take
my experience wood Zac and kind of implement that into
(42:02):
my next relationship. And I feel like I'm much more
open now to dating and I'm much more open to
really being I hate the word vulnerable now, but there's
no other word to use. Why do you hate it?
I just feel like it's so over to use now world,
it's only in your world. Everybody else still enjoys it.
You just got it said to you about a thousand
times in like a two month span. For me, it's
(42:23):
about now entering my next relationship and entering like dating
situations and truly being open minded. I thought I was.
I thought I did the personal growth, but I think
after this experience, I'm very ready to date and I'm
very ready to put myself out there. We wish that
for you. We're excited to watch you. You're one of
(42:45):
our favorites. Really appreciate you coming on. I would love
for you to be a co host with either Ashley
or myself sometime when we need one, because both of
us travel a little bit and she's a mother now
and so sometimes she has to be out. But your insight,
your wisdom, your poison. Doing that during the season and
now is something really admirable. And so keep being you,
(43:11):
keep doing you, and thanks for coming on the show.
We really appreciate it. Ohsome well, thank you so much
for having me. That was another almost famous in depth
episode with Ariel, somebody who became a fan favorite on
this season of the Bachelor. We hope to see her
in Paradise. From that interview, I don't know if we will,
(43:32):
and I think that's probably a good thing. Like I
think she's gonna make the decision that's best for her,
even though selfishly we would all love to see her
fine love on the beach. But until then, if you
want to catch Ariel season of The Bachelor, you can
find that on Hulu. She's also very entertaining on TikTok.
(43:53):
You can follow her at a F R E N
K E L on On TikTok, you can follow her
there until next time. I've been Ben, We'll talk soon.
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