July 20, 2022 • 30 mins
Ben and Ashley connect with Cam Ayala from Hannah Brown's season for a raw and honest update on his life. Cam opens up about his leg amputation surgery and the daily challenges he endures.
We hear Cam's perspective after being seen as a "villain" and how fans didn't hear his true story after watching the show.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
This is Ben and Ashley I almost famous in depth.
This is a very special episode. We've been doing these recently,
UH and they've been a lot of fun for Ashley
and they've kind of replaced the in depth episodes that
we used to do. UH. Now we are digging into
some contestants, some more current contestants, also some past contestants
who have a story to share. UH. Today we're gonna
(00:24):
welcome cam Aala onto the podcast to share about his
recent amputation and his long standing battle with the disease lymphidema.
We're also going to talk a lot about how the
show handled this because here's the truth of it. Actually,
I don't know if you feel this way. I remember
his time on the show. I remember him talking about
(00:44):
having pain. I don't remember it sitting in very deeply
with me or understanding exactly where the pain was coming from.
I don't think when he was on the show it
was ever explained. And I want to get to the
bomb that because I don't. This is when I saw
that he got his leg and amputated. It was kind
of a shock to me that it was this severe.
In this series, to be quite frank the only thing
(01:08):
I really remember from his time on the show on
Hannah season is ABC Cam? Yeah? Remember that was his
tagline ABC Cam, And I don't remember what it stood for?
Now all do you remember? I don't. This is what happens.
You know, like everybody thinks that everything is going to
(01:28):
be like such a huge thing and people are going
to remember storylines forever, and then three years removed, you're like,
I remember one thing, but I do remember Cam as
a as a person, as a character, Um, who's definitely memorable,
and now he has um a story that he really
(01:50):
wants to get out there because there's a lot to
what you a lot to him that you didn't see
on the show. Let's bring him on. Here is Cam
Aala Cam. Hello. How are you feeling? Your surgery was
just a matter of weeks ago? M hmm, yeah, about
three weeks ago, and UM, I'm doing pretty good. There's
(02:11):
definitely some daily challenges and things on this journey that
I'm finding just by trial and error. I've only had
a couple of falls so far, but other than that,
the community has been very supportive. So I'm blessed for sure.
Let's let's start back at the beginning. So for those
who maybe need to reminder you're on Hannah Brown season
(02:32):
of The Bachelor at uh during that time, you spoke
openly about your battle or your life living with lymphedema. Uh.
You had mentioned it caused a lot of pain at
that point in time when the when The Bachelor aired,
how many surgeries had you had on your leg? Yeah?
At that time, I had had fifteen surgeries, Uh there
(02:55):
in twenty nineteen. So yeah, it's It's been going on
since I was eleven years old. So it's something that
has been a part of my life and something I
can't really not talk about, especially when you have a
romantic partner, just because of the physical implications of of
having surgeries and stuff. So I felt that it was
very necessary to be transparent with Hannah sooner rather than later,
(03:15):
because I mean, as you and Ashley know, oftentimes in
that journey, you can go on a group date or
even a one on one that can get physical, and
at that point, I hadn't been on any dates that
were physical yet. So it was just kind of the
elephant in the room for me that I wanted to
be very transparent with Hannah and see, you know, if
that's maybe a red flag for her maybe she isn't
(03:37):
ready yet to be with someone who has a chronic
disease like I have, because you know, there's times with
I've had sporadic infections, I'm getting, you know, emergency surgery,
and then the girlfriends I've had in the past go
from everything's all great and the next thing you know,
they're being my caretaker as I'm learning how to walk
again and kind of go through that whole recovery process.
(03:57):
So I definitely wanted to be up front with her
about that. So just for all of us and educate
all of us, um, and we're gonna get into your
life now and your process through the Bachelorette and kind
of using your platform now to share this, But can
you explain lymphoedema to our audience, to Ashley and I
where it came from. Kind of give us the high
(04:19):
level overview medically of what this is and where it
came from. Sure, and it's a pretty complex condition, so
I'll make it super high level. So really, there's two
types of lymphonema, primary and secondary. Right, I have primary
because I was born with it, so that's um just
a genetic part of the disease. And then second dary
lymphonema comes secondary to some sort of trauma. Can be
(04:42):
surgical trauma really common and breast cancer patients. So you
may have heard of women they've had breast cancer where
they remove lymph nodes under their arm, or they've had
basectomese chema radiation. When that lymphatic system is compromised through
any of those forms of trauma, they can then develop
secondary lymp the ema. I was born with it, but
I didn't start swelling until I was about eleven years old.
(05:05):
So really for anyone, we all have the lymphatic system.
It's parallel with our Our venous systems are veins. So
if your lymphatic system gets compromised in any way, then
you can develop lymphoedema, which is unfortunately a progressive disease
and currently there's no cure for it. And the common
symptoms you'll see in patients they just develop really bad
(05:26):
swollen limbs, so can be really bad swollen arms for
the breast answer patients or patients who are lower extremely
their legs can get up to ten times larger than
their unaffected limbs. So it's it's pretty painful too, and
you have to manage it daily so it's not just
something you can just forget about and pray that it
goes away. It's something that requires daily self care. Do
(05:47):
we see that also with extreme obesity. Absolutely, So I'm
sure people who may have seen that show. Sorry I
was gonna say it, but I didn't know if there
was like enough tack to that kind. I meant, so, no, No,
you're one accurate, And that's actually a lot of people
who may not know what lymphedema is or they don't
(06:08):
have a loved one that has it, they see the
show like that, and I'd say over Dr nels Arden's
patients on that show have secondary lymphedema due to their obesity.
And coincidentally, I used to call on doctor Now because
he's in Houston where I live. So when I was
selling lymphedema pumps professionally last year, that was one of
my accounts. So that was interesting having the reality TV
(06:29):
come full circle. He seems like such a character, that
man isn't phased by anything, not a thing, and the
way you see him on TV is exactly how he
isn't realized. So then to your story, you go on
the show has obviously we just mentioned that three weeks
(06:49):
ago you had your leg amputated. Was this always uh,
something that you believed would happen at some point or
did something switch here recently you said this is now
the option we have to go after. Yeah, great questions. So, um,
when I was out there in twenty nineteen, uh with Hannah,
at that point, I had fifteen prior surgeries. I had
(07:11):
been told in twenty sixteen, so three years prior to
me being on the Bachelrette, the amputation was, um, probably
a solid option for me. But when you hear that
and you're like an athlete like I am, and like
you are been and I'm sure Ashley too, you want
to do everything and you're well you are a winter
game weren't you in Winter Games? Oh? I was very
(07:31):
athletic there. I guess it's relative, right, It's okay. I
appreciate that you called me athletic. Looking. Okay, you had
a kid and you look amazing right now, So you're
you're an athletic type, right. Um. So basically I was
doing everything in my power to avoid amputation. I was
(07:52):
eating healthy, I was working out, I was wearing my
compression garment, doing all the things that the doctors told
me to do, and it was actually the knee replacement
that I had last year that really was like the
straw that broke the camel's back. Unfortunately, the surgeon used
the wrong size hardware positioned it wrong. So ever since
last year, as I was going through physical therapy and
(08:14):
working with a personal trainer, I was just in a
living hell, so much pain every day. So I got
a second opinion when we saw the x rays, like,
oh boy, yeah, that was a botched knee replacement. So yeah,
instead of going through the revision process, which would required
three additional surgeries, and with my history of chronic infection,
(08:34):
amputation at that point was pretty much inevitable. So at
this point I was like, Okay, thirty three, I'm single, Um,
now is a good time to just kind of get
it over with so I can make that transition and
to a new lifestyle so that when the time comes
for me to start actively dating again and hopefully get
married and have kids, I'll be really comfortable and ultimately
(08:55):
competent in my prosthetic leg and just in that new lifestyle.
So that's really what led to it, was just those
chronic bouts of pain for the past year after having
that new replacement, that was failed. This is uh obviously, Um,
(09:19):
you are learning now about this new life. Uh in
the front of you, what have you learned so far?
You know you are single, you are wanting to date.
You are an athlete. I think I saw somewhere. Tell
me if I'm wrong and I missed it. But you
are trying to get back on the basketball court. You
are trying to get back to doing the things you
(09:39):
loved before the leg was amputated. What are you what
are you figuring out? Like? Where is your mind at? Yeah?
Like I was saying, it is an adjustment every single day.
Like so even now, um, just standing on one foot.
This is my my right leg and now you can
see my I call it for a stump. This is
my my residual limb here. So having to put all
(10:03):
of my weight on my left leg all throughout the
day until I get my prosthetic leg, I don't realize
how sore and how tired I would be things like
brushing your teeth and refilling your water bottle. Like right
now I'm using these four arm crutches. So I have
to get really creative and just literally think one step
(10:23):
at a time to navigate and then to answer your
question about you know, returning to the basketball court. So
last Tuesday was my very first time in a wheelchair
for wheelchair basketball. So I got out there and it
just it felt like I was at home. And though
it's a very different than an able bodied person running
up and down the court, instead you're wheeling and you're shooting,
(10:45):
and a lot of the rules are very similar to
regular basketball. So it's amazing to have an opportunity to
pick up something that was one of my biggest passions.
I even play basketball in college, so doing it now
from a wheelchair and being in that community is just
something that's gonna take a lot of work, a lot
of learning. But um, you know, lord will and if
I make the Paralympic US men's team, the next games
(11:06):
are in Paris, So that's that's my that's gonna happen.
I was just thinking that before you set it out loud. Yeah,
So hopefully I'm engaged or married by then, so I
can have a wife in the stands cheir me on.
But if not, you know, whatever, whatever the case, maybe
I'm gonna do my best every day to to work
(11:27):
towards that goal. Okay, So now that you have had
that leg immitated. It was that the only part of
your body that was affected by olympodema. Do you or
do you have to worry about showing up somewhere else. Yeah,
that's a great question. So earlier I was talking about
how there's primary and secondary lymphidema. So when you have
primary and like me, when you're born with it, oar
(11:50):
lymphatic system is throughout our entire body, and it's one
that is so understudied. So the medical community is still
trying to wrap their brains around you know, what is
the progression for patients. So a lot of questions I've
been asked through d m S after I got the
amputation is like, oh, they cut off your lympid ema leg,
your lympidium is gone. Well, it's not like a cancerous
(12:11):
tumor or other things where you just remove that part
and it's gone and you're healthy and you're good. So
we just don't know if the lympid ema is then
going to progress to my left leg or up higher
in my core and you can even get lympideum in
your head and neck. But me staying on top of
it and having a great care team in place just
(12:32):
to monitor it. Ever since I've had. The surgery is
really going to be the best thing we can do
is just to keep a close eye on it and
prevent anything from from being complicated. But truth is, we
just don't really know, unfortunately. But I'm not going to
let that fear of the unknown prevent me from living
my new life and being athletic and doing things I love,
(12:52):
like going to concerts and hiking and and all that stuff.
It's just now I just have to be a little
bit cautious that if there's something that feels wrong. You know,
our bodies are our best sensor, so being in tune
with that and then being able to speak up to
my medical team if if something comes up in the future,
you know. So, how's the pain now? I mean, I'm
just curious. Is the pain gone? Is it? I mean,
(13:14):
you got your leg amputated. I have to imagine maybe
you're still healing. Yes, so, you know, just three weeks
out of the surgery. Um, so there's still some of
that natural inflammation. But this is the thing that I
did a lot of research before the amputation, and I
read a lot and I talked to several other AMPU
key patients about this whole thing. Called phantom pain, and
(13:36):
it is terrible. So basically, uh see my residual in
here on my right legs. So throughout the day I
will just sporadically feel like my right ankle is on
fire or like a stabbing sharp pain, and so instantly
like your brain tells you, you know, reach down and
and you know comfort that area, squeeze it, or sometimes
(13:57):
I get phantom sensation where it's not painful, is just annoying,
where like my ankle or my toes will itch, but
I don't have those toes or ankle anymore. I mean,
I've heard of this before, but just crazy. It's really
I've done you right now. It is absolutely real, and
every antike experiences it in some capacity. The hope is
that over time it will minimize and decrease, but honestly,
(14:20):
that's been the thing that has just been dreadful because
they've given me some pretty strong pain meds and it
doesn't really affect it at all. I'll be sleeping and
I'll wake up in the middle of the night and
I'll go to grab my my right ankle because it's
just throbbing in pain, but there's nothing there. But what's
really fascinating is there's things like mirror therapy where I
literally put a long mirror one of those ones you
(14:40):
hang on a door in between my legs. So I
looked down at the reflection of my left leg, but
my brain is telling me that I still have a
full right leg. So it's really it's really bizarre. And
that's honestly been the biggest like surprise to me is
how severe that pain is when I experienced that throughout
the day. So that's an adjustment too. I have to
(15:01):
account for um in my day to day life moving forward.
But again the hope and prayers that it does minimize,
and it should because the surgery I did was was
pretty in depth and basically they take those nerve endings
once they amputate, and they reconnect it to my handstring
so it can help fire off those nerves so I
don't just have crazy fanom paying for the rest of
(15:23):
my life. The body is so interesting, isn't it. In
modern medicine is amazing. Just the fact that like they
reattached those nerves, It's wow. I'll have one more medical
question actually for you before we talk about how the
Bachelor production handled your well, what would you call it.
(15:46):
Is it a disease? It is a disease. Okay, So
do you plan on getting a prosthetic. Absolutely, yeah, And
that's one thing I'm really excited about. I should be
getting that by hopefully, if everything goes right, in the
next couple of weeks, hopefully by mid August, because basically
right now, I just had my stitches out last Friday.
(16:07):
So this whole residual limb, I'm wearing actually compression garment
on it now to help control the swelling. So then
once that's controlled, they then will do a mold of
my residual limb and then that is what ultimately is
going to be used to create the socket to move
the new leg. And it's robotic, which is really cool,
Like next to my iPhone. I'll be plugging in my
(16:28):
leg at night. So if I go on a road
trip or go anywhere and I forget my leg charge,
I'm kind of s o L. So I gotta be
smart to to bring that. But yeah, it's a process
to get the prosthetic, and so I'm absolutely getting one
of those, and then eventually I'll get one of those
running blades that I can start jogging again. I haven't
been able to jog in like six years because of
all my knee surgeries. From what I understand, we did
(17:01):
a little research. I looked up a little bit before
we came on for as little UM researchers. There's been
into lymphedema. The the advancements and prosthetics is incredible, like
over the last fifteen years, and these these prosthetics are
allowing people to live and do what they did before
(17:25):
or maybe if they were born without limbs, to you know,
run and to play. I just watched UM right now,
there's a golf tournament going on, uh for I don't
know if you play golf, UM, but it's a golf
tournament going on for anybody with a physical disability or
a mental disability. UM. It's by the U. S. G A.
(17:45):
It's an incredible tournament. But there's many people out there
with no legs or one leg or partial legs, and
they are incredible, like like just I mean, I can't
keep my balance with two legs I was born with.
They are swinging out of their mind. They're hitting a
three yards in the middle of fairway. So I'm I'm
(18:05):
excited for you in that realm. Well, as actually mentioned,
UM we do want to talk a little Bachelor here
with you. Uh, well, and then with kind of your thoughts.
I know your faith is something very important to you.
You've been on a few podcasts here recently as you've
shared your story about your faith. We didn't see a
ton of that being mentioned on the show, but that
just kind of how the show works, right. How do
(18:27):
you feel like the community around you, including the Bachelor community,
has responded, um in support of of your recent procedure. Uh? Yeah,
so just high level, I think the community in general,
just the general public, The outpour has been amazing. Uh.
It's started with a week before I had the amputation surgery,
(18:48):
I did an interview with People magazine with Kathy Bates
because she's the national spokesperson of the limpiting, a nonprofit
that I work for, the Kathy Bates v Kathy Bates. Yeah,
she's a good friend of mine because she has a Yeah,
she's she's an amazing lady. And and really after that article,
and I did an Instagram post the day after my amputation,
(19:09):
like showing my my residual LIMB for the first time,
and um, from there, all the other big media outlets
started to run with that story, and that was honestly,
like the first time in three years that I've gotten
like positive press. Because when you're the villain, if you will,
on your respective season of really any reality TV show,
(19:32):
not even just the media, but just the direct messages
and the cyber bullying that went on, and the impostor
syndrome and me believing that I was a villain and
all these things that complete strangers were saying about me.
So getting that clarity and that closure of really having
my story told accurately UM has meant the world to me. Um.
(19:54):
Even Hannah Brown, who I hadn't talked to since the
day she eliminated me over three years ago, you sent
me a pretty long direct message apologizing for, you know,
not handling our conversation better. But you know how it
goes in that environment, especially lead. I can't imagine Ben,
the amount of I don't want to say producer manipulation.
But you you're getting a lot of people barking in
(20:16):
your ears, and you have all these different relationships are navigating.
So unfortunately me opening up about my lympidyma Hannah, and
then ten minutes later Mike Johnson telling her that I'm
making up this medical sob story to get a pity rose,
and then being sent home that night, and then the
public just labeling me as you know this this creepy
guy who told this you know, medical story that didn't
(20:40):
even make sense to people because they edited out me
saying lymphoedema. Right, so the general public didn't even know
that I had this disease because production was to edit
that out. They never said the word lymphoedema in the show.
They edited out every single time. And I even had
a T shirt made for The Bachelor in Paradise reunion.
I told the producers said, look, I am wearing a
(21:01):
shirt that says I have Lympathya google it so you
guys can't censor me anymore. This is a disease. I
don't know why I'm getting this kind of treatment. I
show up to The Bachelor in Paradise for union, I
wear the shirt, and when we see it live the
next night, they literally have it blurred out like it's
some sort of curse word. Why do you think that is?
I mean that feels I mean, look, it's reality television.
(21:25):
It's for entertainment, and I feel like all the contestants
are personified to something, right, and so they had me
labeled as some sort of villain, and so they didn't
want to give me the platform to bring awareness to
the disease that I have that effects over ten million Americans.
So I just feel like it was a missed opportunity
(21:45):
for the network to have representation. You know, we talk
a lot about diversity and inclusion. I don't think that
just should be limited to your ethnicity or your sexual orientation, right.
I feel like people with disabilities like I have should
have just as much representation in there, or at least
an opportunity to spread awareness. And that was robbed for
(22:06):
me every single time I was on the Bachelrette, Bacher,
and Paradise in any reunion shows. So part of it
been may have been that production didn't understand how severe
of a disease that it is. And I feel like,
now after I have the imputation, you know, the proof
is in the pudding, they see like, Wow, he really
wasn't joking around or saying the sob story so Hannah
(22:27):
would feel sorry for him. So yeah, that's kind of
how I might take on. And I don't want to
be angry and bitter towards the franchise. I mean, I've
I've had those thoughts, but that doesn't really get you far.
And obviously, if I didn't even have the experience, we
wouldn't be talking here on this very popular podcast. So
I'm blessed just to even be able to come back
and have these kind of discussions. Did they talk about
(22:49):
it in casting? Did anybody ever see your leg? I mean,
as you guys both know, we go pretty in depth
with the physical and medical history, so I was very clear.
I had even get a doctor's note signed off that hey,
he can do this journey, so they were all aware
of it. I just don't think they understood the severity
of it and how much of an impact it's played
(23:10):
on my life. I mean, the night before I told
Hannah at that party, I was like in tears with
three different producers and I don't want to talk about this.
This is something that's very sensitive to me. But like, no,
that's your thing. Because every contestant has a thing, right,
some sort of backstory that makes them, you know, uniquely them,
and that was mine. And so when I go and
I do that, it was then used against me, and
(23:33):
then they don't even air the disease, and then I'm
labeled as this guy who's desperate looking for a pitty rose.
Can this might be one of the I mean, there's
been a lot of unfortunate events that have happened on
this show, and unfortunate things, And I've always been a
protector of the edit because typically, at least in my experience,
(23:58):
that edit isn't always that far off of the behavior
of the person. And I've always said that, and some
people get really angry at me for saying that, but
that's just my experience. But this is one of the
one of the times that I'm sitting here and um,
I don't have a lot of words to add to this,
because this is really unfortunate. Uh. And especially I remember
(24:20):
your time on the show and you were I mean,
I remember when you you came out and said that
you had suffered with severe pain, uh, and that it
didn't it felt like, you know, you're getting a pitty
rose because of how it was being seen. Now to know,
you know how many years forward and you've had your
leg amputated, You've still struggled with this disease. Uh, And
(24:41):
now you're sitting here and having to almost explain yourself
and get catch people up on what was existing six
years ago. Uh, is really unfortunate, and I can't imagine
the toll I was angry at some of the very
small things that didn't affect my life at all that
I got did it as Um, I can't imagine what
(25:02):
you've been holding onto for six years as you've been
trying to explain this. I mean, you think of the
thing that you're most self conscious about, sorry, I'm getting
emotional thing about you. Think of the thing that you're
most self conscious about, and a thing that has sidelined
you from playing the sports you love, sidelined you from
(25:23):
getting deeper into relationships hopefully leading to marriage, and a
thing that has impacted your career, and all of a sudden,
you're in this environment and you are opening up to
basically a stranger because Hannah was essentially a stranger to
me at that time. And then just to have it
the whole narrative completely turned around and used against you.
(25:45):
Has is something that gave me really bad PTSD that
I had to do with a lot of therapy too.
And then to answer your question you kind of alluded
to earlier, I wasn't strong in my faith in twenty nineteen, Um,
so That's why that wasn't part of my back story.
It was after the show, going through severe depression, going
through having to not participate in social media, and then
(26:09):
obviously COVID hits, so that through a whole another layer
into complexity for everything. So it was really when I
hit rock bottom that I re reignited my relationship with God.
And you know, it was the church I go to
in Houston that you did the podcast with the Maybe
God podcast with Eric. He really helped me in those
moments of darkness. And so now finding a way to
(26:31):
turn tragedy into triumph and having that whole faith over
fear mentality that has been my coping mechanism to let
go of the past. And all I can do is
control how I approached my recovery and try to be
a beacon of hope and inspiration to other patients who
have lympid ema or our amputees and to show that
when you fight through it and you have you know,
(26:53):
God on your side or whatever you believe in, that
you can still go on to live an amazing and
fulfilling life. And that's that's my north star. I'm I'm
ready to just you know, move forward. You're creating. Uh,
you're creating a story that I believe many people. You know,
we say it here often because life gets complex and
there's a lot of things that happen. But if one
(27:14):
person can feel less alone from the story that you're sharing,
and this whole thing has got to be worth it.
I mean, this whole life that we're living has got
to be worth it. I believe there's gonna be many.
As you mentioned, ten million people within the United States
suffer with limited lymphadema. I don't know the number for amputees. Um.
We're excited now to watch your journey moving forward. We
(27:36):
want to see we are. We're here to see and celebrate.
You gotta come back on if you do make the
Olympic team, but we'll be we'll be tracking that journey
along the way. I want to ask you one one
more question. It seems like love is definitely a high
priority for you, and so is sharing this lymphidema journey.
(27:59):
Would you ever go back on Bachelor in Paradise interest
the show again? Oh? It would take a lot, because
I I was promised redemption in Paradise the first go around. Well,
they can't hide your story. Now you've told your story. Well, yeah,
(28:19):
and I can't hide I could hide the limpid ema
by just doing all the stuff that I knew to
keep the swelling now, but I can't hide an amputation,
especially out in Paradise. I'm not gonna wear jeans on
the beach every day. But I honestly I doubt the
production team would even reach out to me for that
to be an opportunity. But if they did, that would
(28:41):
be something I'd have to really pray about. But honestly,
I feel that I know that God has a plan
for all of this, and all the pain that I've
gone through is not for for nothing. There's definitely something
for that. And uh. One of my other big milestones,
and I talked about this with with Ta Natasha on
click a couple of weeks ago. My milestone is in
(29:03):
mid September. I'm going to Red Rocks for the first
time to see a concert and I'm seeing Lauren da
Lauren Dagle. That's my like celebrity crush, and she's a
woman of faith too. So you guys happen to know her,
you want to put in a word for me, that
would be awesome. I can see Red Rocks from my
house right now, sitting here looking out the window. Yeah,
so I can see Red Rocks. I'll drive by, Uh,
(29:26):
send the send the message to Lauren see if see
if magic can happen in the air at Red Rocks
that night. It's a beautiful place, Yes it is. I've
never been, so I'm excited. For sure you're gonna have
a great time. And when you're there, I'm nearby, So
make sure you say hello Camp. Leave you options open.
It's my only thing I'll say. If the show wants
(29:47):
to have you back, you can tell a pretty powerful
story uh and uh on the show. But if not,
we just look forward to you telling your story through
whatever avenue you see fit. If you're interested in more,
we out a lot today from Cam. But if you're
interesting in kind of hearing some of the other podcasts
he's done, He's posted about him on his social media
(30:08):
that Maybe God podcast was a great podcast that dove
a lot more into the faith side of this whole experience.
So you can check that out. Um, But until next time, Cam,
thanks for coming on the almost famous podcasts and sharing
your story. Wish you the best and we know the
future is very very bright for you. Thank you. Thanks man.
Thanks Ashley. I really appreciate you, guys. Thank you appreciate you.
(30:31):
Follow the Benn and Ashley I Almost Famous podcast on
I Heart Radio, or subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.
This is Ben and Ashley I almost famous in depth.
This is a very special episode. We've been doing these recently,
UH and they've been a lot of fun for Ashley
and they've kind of replaced the in depth episodes that
we used to do. UH. Now we are digging into
some contestants, some more current contestants, also some past contestants
who have a story to share. UH. Today we're gonna
(00:24):
welcome cam Aala onto the podcast to share about his
recent amputation and his long standing battle with the disease lymphidema.
We're also going to talk a lot about how the
show handled this because here's the truth of it. Actually,
I don't know if you feel this way. I remember
his time on the show. I remember him talking about
(00:44):
having pain. I don't remember it sitting in very deeply
with me or understanding exactly where the pain was coming from.
I don't think when he was on the show it
was ever explained. And I want to get to the
bomb that because I don't. This is when I saw
that he got his leg and amputated. It was kind
of a shock to me that it was this severe.
In this series, to be quite frank the only thing
(01:08):
I really remember from his time on the show on
Hannah season is ABC Cam? Yeah? Remember that was his
tagline ABC Cam, And I don't remember what it stood for?
Now all do you remember? I don't. This is what happens.
You know, like everybody thinks that everything is going to
(01:28):
be like such a huge thing and people are going
to remember storylines forever, and then three years removed, you're like,
I remember one thing, but I do remember Cam as
a as a person, as a character, Um, who's definitely memorable,
and now he has um a story that he really
(01:50):
wants to get out there because there's a lot to
what you a lot to him that you didn't see
on the show. Let's bring him on. Here is Cam
Aala Cam. Hello. How are you feeling? Your surgery was
just a matter of weeks ago? M hmm, yeah, about
three weeks ago, and UM, I'm doing pretty good. There's
(02:11):
definitely some daily challenges and things on this journey that
I'm finding just by trial and error. I've only had
a couple of falls so far, but other than that,
the community has been very supportive. So I'm blessed for sure.
Let's let's start back at the beginning. So for those
who maybe need to reminder you're on Hannah Brown season
(02:32):
of The Bachelor at uh during that time, you spoke
openly about your battle or your life living with lymphedema. Uh.
You had mentioned it caused a lot of pain at
that point in time when the when The Bachelor aired,
how many surgeries had you had on your leg? Yeah?
At that time, I had had fifteen surgeries, Uh there
(02:55):
in twenty nineteen. So yeah, it's It's been going on
since I was eleven years old. So it's something that
has been a part of my life and something I
can't really not talk about, especially when you have a
romantic partner, just because of the physical implications of of
having surgeries and stuff. So I felt that it was
very necessary to be transparent with Hannah sooner rather than later,
(03:15):
because I mean, as you and Ashley know, oftentimes in
that journey, you can go on a group date or
even a one on one that can get physical, and
at that point, I hadn't been on any dates that
were physical yet. So it was just kind of the
elephant in the room for me that I wanted to
be very transparent with Hannah and see, you know, if
that's maybe a red flag for her maybe she isn't
(03:37):
ready yet to be with someone who has a chronic
disease like I have, because you know, there's times with
I've had sporadic infections, I'm getting, you know, emergency surgery,
and then the girlfriends I've had in the past go
from everything's all great and the next thing you know,
they're being my caretaker as I'm learning how to walk
again and kind of go through that whole recovery process.
(03:57):
So I definitely wanted to be up front with her
about that. So just for all of us and educate
all of us, um, and we're gonna get into your
life now and your process through the Bachelorette and kind
of using your platform now to share this, But can
you explain lymphoedema to our audience, to Ashley and I
where it came from. Kind of give us the high
(04:19):
level overview medically of what this is and where it
came from. Sure, and it's a pretty complex condition, so
I'll make it super high level. So really, there's two
types of lymphonema, primary and secondary. Right, I have primary
because I was born with it, so that's um just
a genetic part of the disease. And then second dary
lymphonema comes secondary to some sort of trauma. Can be
(04:42):
surgical trauma really common and breast cancer patients. So you
may have heard of women they've had breast cancer where
they remove lymph nodes under their arm, or they've had
basectomese chema radiation. When that lymphatic system is compromised through
any of those forms of trauma, they can then develop
secondary lymp the ema. I was born with it, but
I didn't start swelling until I was about eleven years old.
(05:05):
So really for anyone, we all have the lymphatic system.
It's parallel with our Our venous systems are veins. So
if your lymphatic system gets compromised in any way, then
you can develop lymphoedema, which is unfortunately a progressive disease
and currently there's no cure for it. And the common
symptoms you'll see in patients they just develop really bad
(05:26):
swollen limbs, so can be really bad swollen arms for
the breast answer patients or patients who are lower extremely
their legs can get up to ten times larger than
their unaffected limbs. So it's it's pretty painful too, and
you have to manage it daily so it's not just
something you can just forget about and pray that it
goes away. It's something that requires daily self care. Do
(05:47):
we see that also with extreme obesity. Absolutely, So I'm
sure people who may have seen that show. Sorry I
was gonna say it, but I didn't know if there
was like enough tack to that kind. I meant, so, no, No,
you're one accurate, And that's actually a lot of people
who may not know what lymphedema is or they don't
(06:08):
have a loved one that has it, they see the
show like that, and I'd say over Dr nels Arden's
patients on that show have secondary lymphedema due to their obesity.
And coincidentally, I used to call on doctor Now because
he's in Houston where I live. So when I was
selling lymphedema pumps professionally last year, that was one of
my accounts. So that was interesting having the reality TV
(06:29):
come full circle. He seems like such a character, that
man isn't phased by anything, not a thing, and the
way you see him on TV is exactly how he
isn't realized. So then to your story, you go on
the show has obviously we just mentioned that three weeks
(06:49):
ago you had your leg amputated. Was this always uh,
something that you believed would happen at some point or
did something switch here recently you said this is now
the option we have to go after. Yeah, great questions. So, um,
when I was out there in twenty nineteen, uh with Hannah,
at that point, I had fifteen prior surgeries. I had
(07:11):
been told in twenty sixteen, so three years prior to
me being on the Bachelrette, the amputation was, um, probably
a solid option for me. But when you hear that
and you're like an athlete like I am, and like
you are been and I'm sure Ashley too, you want
to do everything and you're well you are a winter
game weren't you in Winter Games? Oh? I was very
(07:31):
athletic there. I guess it's relative, right, It's okay. I
appreciate that you called me athletic. Looking. Okay, you had
a kid and you look amazing right now, So you're
you're an athletic type, right. Um. So basically I was
doing everything in my power to avoid amputation. I was
(07:52):
eating healthy, I was working out, I was wearing my
compression garment, doing all the things that the doctors told
me to do, and it was actually the knee replacement
that I had last year that really was like the
straw that broke the camel's back. Unfortunately, the surgeon used
the wrong size hardware positioned it wrong. So ever since
last year, as I was going through physical therapy and
(08:14):
working with a personal trainer, I was just in a
living hell, so much pain every day. So I got
a second opinion when we saw the x rays, like,
oh boy, yeah, that was a botched knee replacement. So yeah,
instead of going through the revision process, which would required
three additional surgeries, and with my history of chronic infection,
(08:34):
amputation at that point was pretty much inevitable. So at
this point I was like, Okay, thirty three, I'm single, Um,
now is a good time to just kind of get
it over with so I can make that transition and
to a new lifestyle so that when the time comes
for me to start actively dating again and hopefully get
married and have kids, I'll be really comfortable and ultimately
(08:55):
competent in my prosthetic leg and just in that new lifestyle.
So that's really what led to it, was just those
chronic bouts of pain for the past year after having
that new replacement, that was failed. This is uh obviously, Um,
(09:19):
you are learning now about this new life. Uh in
the front of you, what have you learned so far?
You know you are single, you are wanting to date.
You are an athlete. I think I saw somewhere. Tell
me if I'm wrong and I missed it. But you
are trying to get back on the basketball court. You
are trying to get back to doing the things you
(09:39):
loved before the leg was amputated. What are you what
are you figuring out? Like? Where is your mind at? Yeah?
Like I was saying, it is an adjustment every single day.
Like so even now, um, just standing on one foot.
This is my my right leg and now you can
see my I call it for a stump. This is
my my residual limb here. So having to put all
(10:03):
of my weight on my left leg all throughout the
day until I get my prosthetic leg, I don't realize
how sore and how tired I would be things like
brushing your teeth and refilling your water bottle. Like right
now I'm using these four arm crutches. So I have
to get really creative and just literally think one step
(10:23):
at a time to navigate and then to answer your
question about you know, returning to the basketball court. So
last Tuesday was my very first time in a wheelchair
for wheelchair basketball. So I got out there and it
just it felt like I was at home. And though
it's a very different than an able bodied person running
up and down the court, instead you're wheeling and you're shooting,
(10:45):
and a lot of the rules are very similar to
regular basketball. So it's amazing to have an opportunity to
pick up something that was one of my biggest passions.
I even play basketball in college, so doing it now
from a wheelchair and being in that community is just
something that's gonna take a lot of work, a lot
of learning. But um, you know, lord will and if
I make the Paralympic US men's team, the next games
(11:06):
are in Paris, So that's that's my that's gonna happen.
I was just thinking that before you set it out loud. Yeah,
So hopefully I'm engaged or married by then, so I
can have a wife in the stands cheir me on.
But if not, you know, whatever, whatever the case, maybe
I'm gonna do my best every day to to work
(11:27):
towards that goal. Okay, So now that you have had
that leg immitated. It was that the only part of
your body that was affected by olympodema. Do you or
do you have to worry about showing up somewhere else. Yeah,
that's a great question. So earlier I was talking about
how there's primary and secondary lymphidema. So when you have
primary and like me, when you're born with it, oar
(11:50):
lymphatic system is throughout our entire body, and it's one
that is so understudied. So the medical community is still
trying to wrap their brains around you know, what is
the progression for patients. So a lot of questions I've
been asked through d m S after I got the
amputation is like, oh, they cut off your lympid ema leg,
your lympidium is gone. Well, it's not like a cancerous
(12:11):
tumor or other things where you just remove that part
and it's gone and you're healthy and you're good. So
we just don't know if the lympid ema is then
going to progress to my left leg or up higher
in my core and you can even get lympideum in
your head and neck. But me staying on top of
it and having a great care team in place just
(12:32):
to monitor it. Ever since I've had. The surgery is
really going to be the best thing we can do
is just to keep a close eye on it and
prevent anything from from being complicated. But truth is, we
just don't really know, unfortunately. But I'm not going to
let that fear of the unknown prevent me from living
my new life and being athletic and doing things I love,
(12:52):
like going to concerts and hiking and and all that stuff.
It's just now I just have to be a little
bit cautious that if there's something that feels wrong. You know,
our bodies are our best sensor, so being in tune
with that and then being able to speak up to
my medical team if if something comes up in the future,
you know. So, how's the pain now? I mean, I'm
just curious. Is the pain gone? Is it? I mean,
(13:14):
you got your leg amputated. I have to imagine maybe
you're still healing. Yes, so, you know, just three weeks
out of the surgery. Um, so there's still some of
that natural inflammation. But this is the thing that I
did a lot of research before the amputation, and I
read a lot and I talked to several other AMPU
key patients about this whole thing. Called phantom pain, and
(13:36):
it is terrible. So basically, uh see my residual in
here on my right legs. So throughout the day I
will just sporadically feel like my right ankle is on
fire or like a stabbing sharp pain, and so instantly
like your brain tells you, you know, reach down and
and you know comfort that area, squeeze it, or sometimes
(13:57):
I get phantom sensation where it's not painful, is just annoying,
where like my ankle or my toes will itch, but
I don't have those toes or ankle anymore. I mean,
I've heard of this before, but just crazy. It's really
I've done you right now. It is absolutely real, and
every antike experiences it in some capacity. The hope is
that over time it will minimize and decrease, but honestly,
(14:20):
that's been the thing that has just been dreadful because
they've given me some pretty strong pain meds and it
doesn't really affect it at all. I'll be sleeping and
I'll wake up in the middle of the night and
I'll go to grab my my right ankle because it's
just throbbing in pain, but there's nothing there. But what's
really fascinating is there's things like mirror therapy where I
literally put a long mirror one of those ones you
(14:40):
hang on a door in between my legs. So I
looked down at the reflection of my left leg, but
my brain is telling me that I still have a
full right leg. So it's really it's really bizarre. And
that's honestly been the biggest like surprise to me is
how severe that pain is when I experienced that throughout
the day. So that's an adjustment too. I have to
(15:01):
account for um in my day to day life moving forward.
But again the hope and prayers that it does minimize,
and it should because the surgery I did was was
pretty in depth and basically they take those nerve endings
once they amputate, and they reconnect it to my handstring
so it can help fire off those nerves so I
don't just have crazy fanom paying for the rest of
(15:23):
my life. The body is so interesting, isn't it. In
modern medicine is amazing. Just the fact that like they
reattached those nerves, It's wow. I'll have one more medical
question actually for you before we talk about how the
Bachelor production handled your well, what would you call it.
(15:46):
Is it a disease? It is a disease. Okay, So
do you plan on getting a prosthetic. Absolutely, yeah, And
that's one thing I'm really excited about. I should be
getting that by hopefully, if everything goes right, in the
next couple of weeks, hopefully by mid August, because basically
right now, I just had my stitches out last Friday.
(16:07):
So this whole residual limb, I'm wearing actually compression garment
on it now to help control the swelling. So then
once that's controlled, they then will do a mold of
my residual limb and then that is what ultimately is
going to be used to create the socket to move
the new leg. And it's robotic, which is really cool,
Like next to my iPhone. I'll be plugging in my
(16:28):
leg at night. So if I go on a road
trip or go anywhere and I forget my leg charge,
I'm kind of s o L. So I gotta be
smart to to bring that. But yeah, it's a process
to get the prosthetic, and so I'm absolutely getting one
of those, and then eventually I'll get one of those
running blades that I can start jogging again. I haven't
been able to jog in like six years because of
all my knee surgeries. From what I understand, we did
(17:01):
a little research. I looked up a little bit before
we came on for as little UM researchers. There's been
into lymphedema. The the advancements and prosthetics is incredible, like
over the last fifteen years, and these these prosthetics are
allowing people to live and do what they did before
(17:25):
or maybe if they were born without limbs, to you know,
run and to play. I just watched UM right now,
there's a golf tournament going on, uh for I don't
know if you play golf, UM, but it's a golf
tournament going on for anybody with a physical disability or
a mental disability. UM. It's by the U. S. G A.
(17:45):
It's an incredible tournament. But there's many people out there
with no legs or one leg or partial legs, and
they are incredible, like like just I mean, I can't
keep my balance with two legs I was born with.
They are swinging out of their mind. They're hitting a
three yards in the middle of fairway. So I'm I'm
(18:05):
excited for you in that realm. Well, as actually mentioned,
UM we do want to talk a little Bachelor here
with you. Uh, well, and then with kind of your thoughts.
I know your faith is something very important to you.
You've been on a few podcasts here recently as you've
shared your story about your faith. We didn't see a
ton of that being mentioned on the show, but that
just kind of how the show works, right. How do
(18:27):
you feel like the community around you, including the Bachelor community,
has responded, um in support of of your recent procedure. Uh? Yeah,
so just high level, I think the community in general,
just the general public, The outpour has been amazing. Uh.
It's started with a week before I had the amputation surgery,
(18:48):
I did an interview with People magazine with Kathy Bates
because she's the national spokesperson of the limpiting, a nonprofit
that I work for, the Kathy Bates v Kathy Bates. Yeah,
she's a good friend of mine because she has a Yeah,
she's she's an amazing lady. And and really after that article,
and I did an Instagram post the day after my amputation,
(19:09):
like showing my my residual LIMB for the first time,
and um, from there, all the other big media outlets
started to run with that story, and that was honestly,
like the first time in three years that I've gotten
like positive press. Because when you're the villain, if you will,
on your respective season of really any reality TV show,
(19:32):
not even just the media, but just the direct messages
and the cyber bullying that went on, and the impostor
syndrome and me believing that I was a villain and
all these things that complete strangers were saying about me.
So getting that clarity and that closure of really having
my story told accurately UM has meant the world to me. Um.
(19:54):
Even Hannah Brown, who I hadn't talked to since the
day she eliminated me over three years ago, you sent
me a pretty long direct message apologizing for, you know,
not handling our conversation better. But you know how it
goes in that environment, especially lead. I can't imagine Ben,
the amount of I don't want to say producer manipulation.
But you you're getting a lot of people barking in
(20:16):
your ears, and you have all these different relationships are navigating.
So unfortunately me opening up about my lympidyma Hannah, and
then ten minutes later Mike Johnson telling her that I'm
making up this medical sob story to get a pity rose,
and then being sent home that night, and then the
public just labeling me as you know this this creepy
guy who told this you know, medical story that didn't
(20:40):
even make sense to people because they edited out me
saying lymphoedema. Right, so the general public didn't even know
that I had this disease because production was to edit
that out. They never said the word lymphoedema in the show.
They edited out every single time. And I even had
a T shirt made for The Bachelor in Paradise reunion.
I told the producers said, look, I am wearing a
(21:01):
shirt that says I have Lympathya google it so you
guys can't censor me anymore. This is a disease. I
don't know why I'm getting this kind of treatment. I
show up to The Bachelor in Paradise for union, I
wear the shirt, and when we see it live the
next night, they literally have it blurred out like it's
some sort of curse word. Why do you think that is?
I mean that feels I mean, look, it's reality television.
(21:25):
It's for entertainment, and I feel like all the contestants
are personified to something, right, and so they had me
labeled as some sort of villain, and so they didn't
want to give me the platform to bring awareness to
the disease that I have that effects over ten million Americans.
So I just feel like it was a missed opportunity
(21:45):
for the network to have representation. You know, we talk
a lot about diversity and inclusion. I don't think that
just should be limited to your ethnicity or your sexual orientation, right.
I feel like people with disabilities like I have should
have just as much representation in there, or at least
an opportunity to spread awareness. And that was robbed for
(22:06):
me every single time I was on the Bachelrette, Bacher,
and Paradise in any reunion shows. So part of it
been may have been that production didn't understand how severe
of a disease that it is. And I feel like,
now after I have the imputation, you know, the proof
is in the pudding, they see like, Wow, he really
wasn't joking around or saying the sob story so Hannah
(22:27):
would feel sorry for him. So yeah, that's kind of
how I might take on. And I don't want to
be angry and bitter towards the franchise. I mean, I've
I've had those thoughts, but that doesn't really get you far.
And obviously, if I didn't even have the experience, we
wouldn't be talking here on this very popular podcast. So
I'm blessed just to even be able to come back
and have these kind of discussions. Did they talk about
(22:49):
it in casting? Did anybody ever see your leg? I mean,
as you guys both know, we go pretty in depth
with the physical and medical history, so I was very clear.
I had even get a doctor's note signed off that hey,
he can do this journey, so they were all aware
of it. I just don't think they understood the severity
of it and how much of an impact it's played
(23:10):
on my life. I mean, the night before I told
Hannah at that party, I was like in tears with
three different producers and I don't want to talk about this.
This is something that's very sensitive to me. But like, no,
that's your thing. Because every contestant has a thing, right,
some sort of backstory that makes them, you know, uniquely them,
and that was mine. And so when I go and
I do that, it was then used against me, and
(23:33):
then they don't even air the disease, and then I'm
labeled as this guy who's desperate looking for a pitty rose.
Can this might be one of the I mean, there's
been a lot of unfortunate events that have happened on
this show, and unfortunate things, And I've always been a
protector of the edit because typically, at least in my experience,
(23:58):
that edit isn't always that far off of the behavior
of the person. And I've always said that, and some
people get really angry at me for saying that, but
that's just my experience. But this is one of the
one of the times that I'm sitting here and um,
I don't have a lot of words to add to this,
because this is really unfortunate. Uh. And especially I remember
(24:20):
your time on the show and you were I mean,
I remember when you you came out and said that
you had suffered with severe pain, uh, and that it
didn't it felt like, you know, you're getting a pitty
rose because of how it was being seen. Now to know,
you know how many years forward and you've had your
leg amputated, You've still struggled with this disease. Uh, And
(24:41):
now you're sitting here and having to almost explain yourself
and get catch people up on what was existing six
years ago. Uh, is really unfortunate, and I can't imagine
the toll I was angry at some of the very
small things that didn't affect my life at all that
I got did it as Um, I can't imagine what
(25:02):
you've been holding onto for six years as you've been
trying to explain this. I mean, you think of the
thing that you're most self conscious about, sorry, I'm getting
emotional thing about you. Think of the thing that you're
most self conscious about, and a thing that has sidelined
you from playing the sports you love, sidelined you from
(25:23):
getting deeper into relationships hopefully leading to marriage, and a
thing that has impacted your career, and all of a sudden,
you're in this environment and you are opening up to
basically a stranger because Hannah was essentially a stranger to
me at that time. And then just to have it
the whole narrative completely turned around and used against you.
(25:45):
Has is something that gave me really bad PTSD that
I had to do with a lot of therapy too.
And then to answer your question you kind of alluded
to earlier, I wasn't strong in my faith in twenty nineteen, Um,
so That's why that wasn't part of my back story.
It was after the show, going through severe depression, going
through having to not participate in social media, and then
(26:09):
obviously COVID hits, so that through a whole another layer
into complexity for everything. So it was really when I
hit rock bottom that I re reignited my relationship with God.
And you know, it was the church I go to
in Houston that you did the podcast with the Maybe
God podcast with Eric. He really helped me in those
moments of darkness. And so now finding a way to
(26:31):
turn tragedy into triumph and having that whole faith over
fear mentality that has been my coping mechanism to let
go of the past. And all I can do is
control how I approached my recovery and try to be
a beacon of hope and inspiration to other patients who
have lympid ema or our amputees and to show that
when you fight through it and you have you know,
(26:53):
God on your side or whatever you believe in, that
you can still go on to live an amazing and
fulfilling life. And that's that's my north star. I'm I'm
ready to just you know, move forward. You're creating. Uh,
you're creating a story that I believe many people. You know,
we say it here often because life gets complex and
there's a lot of things that happen. But if one
(27:14):
person can feel less alone from the story that you're sharing,
and this whole thing has got to be worth it.
I mean, this whole life that we're living has got
to be worth it. I believe there's gonna be many.
As you mentioned, ten million people within the United States
suffer with limited lymphadema. I don't know the number for amputees. Um.
We're excited now to watch your journey moving forward. We
(27:36):
want to see we are. We're here to see and celebrate.
You gotta come back on if you do make the
Olympic team, but we'll be we'll be tracking that journey
along the way. I want to ask you one one
more question. It seems like love is definitely a high
priority for you, and so is sharing this lymphidema journey.
(27:59):
Would you ever go back on Bachelor in Paradise interest
the show again? Oh? It would take a lot, because
I I was promised redemption in Paradise the first go around. Well,
they can't hide your story. Now you've told your story. Well, yeah,
(28:19):
and I can't hide I could hide the limpid ema
by just doing all the stuff that I knew to
keep the swelling now, but I can't hide an amputation,
especially out in Paradise. I'm not gonna wear jeans on
the beach every day. But I honestly I doubt the
production team would even reach out to me for that
to be an opportunity. But if they did, that would
(28:41):
be something I'd have to really pray about. But honestly,
I feel that I know that God has a plan
for all of this, and all the pain that I've
gone through is not for for nothing. There's definitely something
for that. And uh. One of my other big milestones,
and I talked about this with with Ta Natasha on
click a couple of weeks ago. My milestone is in
(29:03):
mid September. I'm going to Red Rocks for the first
time to see a concert and I'm seeing Lauren da
Lauren Dagle. That's my like celebrity crush, and she's a
woman of faith too. So you guys happen to know her,
you want to put in a word for me, that
would be awesome. I can see Red Rocks from my
house right now, sitting here looking out the window. Yeah,
so I can see Red Rocks. I'll drive by, Uh,
(29:26):
send the send the message to Lauren see if see
if magic can happen in the air at Red Rocks
that night. It's a beautiful place, Yes it is. I've
never been, so I'm excited. For sure you're gonna have
a great time. And when you're there, I'm nearby, So
make sure you say hello Camp. Leave you options open.
It's my only thing I'll say. If the show wants
(29:47):
to have you back, you can tell a pretty powerful
story uh and uh on the show. But if not,
we just look forward to you telling your story through
whatever avenue you see fit. If you're interested in more,
we out a lot today from Cam. But if you're
interesting in kind of hearing some of the other podcasts
he's done, He's posted about him on his social media
(30:08):
that Maybe God podcast was a great podcast that dove
a lot more into the faith side of this whole experience.
So you can check that out. Um, But until next time, Cam,
thanks for coming on the almost famous podcasts and sharing
your story. Wish you the best and we know the
future is very very bright for you. Thank you. Thanks man.
Thanks Ashley. I really appreciate you, guys. Thank you appreciate you.
(30:31):
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