March 9, 2022 • 37 mins
Clayton Echard is in the hot seat and Ben & Ashley ask him EVERYTHING you’re thinking.
There’s no holding back as we confront him about why he handled things the way that he did, and what that means for his future as The Bachelor.
You do not want to miss this raw and real conversation that will completely change the way you see Clayton.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is the Benn and Ashley I almost famous podcast
with her Radio Ashley, it's a big day for us. Um,
it's a tough day for our guest, but a big
day for us. Oh my gosh, big, big day. Gonna
be honest, A little nervous for this interview, are you? Yeah?
(00:21):
You know, because I don't know what to expect from
this guy anymore. And this guy that I referred to
its Clayton. Clayton. Clayton is here with us today. Clayton
is joining us today to do a sit down. We're
gonna talk to him about everything going on in the show. Um. Obviously, UM,
it's been a well let's let's get his opinion. I
(00:41):
guess I don't want to put words into his mouth.
I'm assuming it's been a tough couple of months. One
of the hardest UM rides as a lead I can remember,
meaning from really start to finish, it hasn't felt like Um,
there is a ton of team Colton or team Clayton
switched spots, dang it. Um, you know, And so I
(01:05):
want to talk to him about I want to hear
how he's holding up, because that I was always important
when it comes to a human. It's like, you know,
nobody here wants anybody to um like her. However, we
want them to learn their lesson. Yeah, but being held
accountable is definitely something that's necessary. And so let's hold
Clayton accountable for the things he's done throughout the season,
(01:28):
and especially the conversation with Susie. We'll get his thoughts
here in just a second. Um, actual, let's take a break,
Let's get a glass of water, come back, and let's
talk to Clayton. All right, well, Clayton is on the line. Clayton,
(01:53):
how do you feel today? You can give us as
many words as you need to describe your feelings. Yeah,
I mean I'm gosh, I mean, woke up with a
pounding headache, just stressed out. I'm embarrassed. I knew that
this month was coming. I'd kind of alluded to it
(02:13):
previous weeks, and so yeah, I'm not exactly shocked by
the reactions online, although it appears that, yeah, I mean,
it's heavily people are very much against me and favoring her.
But I totally understand now, I totally get what I'm seeing,
and I think that it's Yeah, I mean, I'm embarrassed.
(02:34):
I wish that I could have seen her side in
that moment um and I I just didn't. In that moment,
I didn't see her side. I didn't want to see
her side because I knew if I saw her side
and accepted it, that it was it was. That was
the end of it, right then and there. And so
I know we'll jump in this, and I have a
million thoughts already. I'm like, here we go. I'm already
(02:54):
starting ramble. But I just there's so much that I
wish that I would have done differently, and I wish
I could have seen her side. But I was when
she dropped that news on me. I just was crushed
watching this person, and I thought I may get engaged
to essentially say hey, I'm done and it's over and
there's nothing you can do. And that just my emotions
overcame me and and that's what everyone saw. But essentially,
(03:16):
essentially you're the one to tell her to leave. I mean,
yes and no, I know that again, like from what
people saw, she she said, you know, hey, I can't
look past this. And then multiple times in that conversation,
I asked like, can we work past this? And she
(03:37):
just said, you know, no, I can, I'm not able to.
And so at that point, I realized that there's no
more reason for us to talk like I have tried.
I've asked three or four times to work through this.
If we can get past this, can we take some
time off camera and talk this through. And she's said,
you know, I don't think it's gonna change anything, and
so um at that point, I felt that there was
(03:58):
no reason to keep it going. And that's when I listen,
there's no we're not getting anywhere. My emotions, I knew
were getting the best to me. That's why I told
him like I apologize, like my for raising my voice,
and I knew that it wasn't productive any longer. It
was too emotional, and I had to step away. Unfortunately,
this isn't a conversation where you can step away and
revisit the next day, because it's the show. It's like,
(04:20):
once she's gone, it's gone, She's done, and that's it.
And I just I knew I was not nego to
headspace at that place, and I had to just stop
the conversation from continuing. You you say you're not in
a good headspace. Can we go back? Because I think
you know you just said you woke up with a
pounding headache. I'm assuming it wasn't from drinking. Um, I'm
(04:41):
assuming it was from just stress. The stress, the you're
watching it back and now reliving that moment and now
seeing so many people, millions of people watch it last
night and have opinions on it. Right, Um, we go
back then for everybody to get some clarity on why
(05:02):
you got so emotional, like why you're inside started to
come out, you know, through your mouth in ways that
you probably wouldn't have wanted. And now you do look
back and say, you know you regret. Yeah, it's it's
it's really as I watched it back last night, I
see it now from the outside and I see her
(05:24):
a side completely and it's like and to me, I
watched it and I thought, how could you not see
that in that moment? And I want to say this again.
I just want to be able to provide explanation so
people can understand my thought process, because my thought process
then is different than my thought process as now. And
I accept ful accountability for my actions. I'm not trying
to make any excuses. I hope no one. I hope
everyone understands that this is just me explaining what I
(05:46):
was thinking in that moment. Doesn't mean it was right,
but I essentially believed in the process. I stepped in
as the bachelor and I said, Okay, I'm in a
day thirty woman, and this will be acceptable. You know,
this is the only environment where you can kiss a
woman in front of thirty other women and they're going
to still stick around and and and try to be
(06:06):
with you the next day. You could never do that
in the real world with people, you know. You know,
it's just not feasible, and so you start to think that, Okay,
things work differently here, so there's a little bit of leeway,
and so just it's not real world applicable. Because of that,
I started to adapt to the environment, and I started
to say, Okay, well, I'm assuming that these women understand
(06:29):
how fancy to see fancy sweets go. I'm assuming they
understand I might fall in love with multiple women. So
that's just that's unknown. And what I saw, as we
saw last night, is that Susie did not adapt to
the environment. She stayed herself her true self from outside
the show versus coming into the show, and I commend
(06:51):
her for that. I think that's incredibly respectful that the
disconnect was I adapted, she didn't, and we were on
these two different fields of understanding. And as I look
back at it now from being on the outside of it,
that's now I'm like, Okay, yeah, her side of it
makes complete sense. Why could you not see it? And
I just couldn't in that moment because I was very
(07:12):
entrenched in that belief that things work differently there. So
what would have happened if she had the first fantasy
suite and she would have told you, I can't be
here any longer if you sleep with anyone else. Yeah,
you know, it's tough about what if scenario, because again,
what happened happened. And I would like to believe that
(07:36):
if she went first and she gave me the ultimatum,
that I would have sat back and said, Okay, you
realize if you take forward, take any more action going forward,
that this could be it for you too. I was
never faced with the end of the line with us
until that point that you saw last night. So I
would like to think that when I, if I realized
(07:58):
the door was going to either be open or closed
from that point forward, depending on based on my actions,
that I would have. I would have not been intimate
with probably anybody at that point because I wouldn't want
to mix it up. But my feelings of falling in
love with the women were already there at that point.
(08:18):
They were already there at the beginning of fancy suites.
So if I would have sat and talked to her
and said I'm in love with these other two women
as well, and she said that's a deal breaker, then
it wouldn't have mattered if she went first or third.
The only thing that I could have changed is, Okay,
I cannot be intimate with anybody and protect everyone, and
I believe I would have done that, but I would
(08:39):
have still had the feelings. I started following up these
women back in hometowns, maybe even before. I didn't tell
anybody going into hometowns because again I was still trying
to make sense of it. On fighting the fact that
I was I had fallen from multiple women, and I
didn't want to believe it because I knew it would
get mess in now everyone sees like it did, and
I didn't want to. I told myself, I will not
fall in love with multile women, and I fought it
(09:00):
and fought it and fought it and held back those
emotions and then realized that, like, those emotions were there,
and I did feel that way about those women, so
I know it doesn't make sense. And again people say
you can't fall in love with three women, and it's like, okay,
then you won't ever believe me, But I did, and
I'll swear I swear about it. You can put a
lie detector test on me like I did. I fell
in love with multiple women and I can't take that back.
(09:22):
But if she'd went first, I believe I probably would
just not have slept with any of them. Okay, well,
you said in that scene that you loved her the most.
When did you start feeling that or do you feel
like that was just a reaction in the moment. No.
I I started feeling that right around hometowns and right
(09:44):
after things went so great with her family. And again
I compartmentalize these relationships where when I was just with them,
I that's all I saw because I thought that was
the right way to approach. It was like, if you
want to give this a fair shot, when you're with
this woman and you're only with her, there are no
other women you want to pour into that that person
a percent. But then once I would step away, I'd realize, okay, wait,
(10:07):
so where do I feel? How do I feel? And
of course they weren't all equivalent going into fancy suitets.
There were you know, I had more love for, like
I said, Susie than I did for neither Gabby or Rachel.
But going into fancy suitets, my thought well as is
that deal breakers can come up. Um, we might not
have any physical intimacy. And if Susie and I happened,
if that wouldn't have happened, and we would have went
(10:28):
into fancy suits and be were intimate and we had
no compatibility sexually, then that would have shifted. I would
have now been in potentially more in love with one
of the other two women. Because physical intimacy is such
a critical part of relationship. I cannot get engaged to
somebody if there's no sexual chemistry. It's just that's just me.
Maybe that's not everybody else's, but for me, that's so critical.
(10:49):
If I'm going to get engaged, that has to be there. Let's, um,
let's talk a bit. I mean, I'm interested, right, because
I've been there. I get it. Um, people people were
really confused when I told two women I loved them. Uh,
(11:10):
everything was going pretty good for me the show, people
were watching it, people were into it. And then all
of a sudden, I did this thing. And I didn't
know how big of a deal it was until it happened.
I had no prep. I was even nervous about the
episode hearing. I actually thought everybody be like, Oh that
was That'd be so hard, Like that's such a tough
(11:30):
place for your heart to be at. Instead, I you know, um,
I felt some of the pain that I think you're
feeling today and some of the confusion. So for a
second here, let's talk about why you decided to say
what you did and express those emotions. You've touched on it.
But ultimately, when you sat down and you made the
intentional decision to tell two women at that point or
(11:51):
and then three that you were in love with them,
why did you think that was a good idea. I mean,
I didn't think it was a good idea because you
don't want to tell multiple women that you're in love
with them. I mean, just look at it from the
standpoint of I told a woman that I love that
(12:11):
I'm the most in love with you implying I was
in love with other women. I mean, in what sense
would again, would you move forward with when get engaged
with so many three days later? If you're saying, hey,
I'm in love with you, but I'm also in love
with other women, it doesn't make sense. Now I see
them like, it does not make sense. But I made
it make sense in that moment. I had to make
it make sense because if against Susie and I didn't
have any physical intimacy, no compatibility, then I will say, Okay,
(12:35):
well that's that's no longer. We're not gonna work out.
So now I need to focus on these other two
relationships and who I feel most compatible with. But this
goes back to if I would have withheld those emotions.
I did. I did actually with all those emotions. I
was falling for Serene as well, and I had and
(12:55):
when she told me when I sent her home and
she and very upset, she was I just want to know,
is it because of what I said and she was
talking about? Is because I told you I was in
love with you? And is that why you turn't shut down?
And in that moment, I realized because I had not
validated her or given her any explanation or any clue
as to where I stood with her, that everything was
(13:18):
invalidated to her at that moment, and she felt that
because she opened up, it shut me down, and my
fear was going forward if that happened to her, what
happens if these other women start to feel the same way.
They don't know where I stand. So how am I
gonna When am I going to tell them? And it's
gonna wait all the way until the final the final
week right for engagement and tell someone right there that hey,
(13:39):
I'm in love with you. I think that's to me,
it's like they need to know your in love with
them before you get engaged. You tell them right there
and there the day of it, just when I don't
know when is the right time to tell somebody on
the on that ship, on the show, when you're falling
in love with them, and I know people say, okay,
well you she just told one person what I was.
I was in love with multiple women. I don't so
(14:00):
I felt that I should tell them all at the
same time. After this this, after Hometowns, that's just the
next time I saw him was overnights and I felt
I was like, this is where you're at so you
need to let these women know as soon as possible
when you told him, because I mean, I'm trying to
go back into that season of life. I remember I
(14:21):
was telling Ashley yesterday. I remember walking around my hotel room.
I was in Jamaica and um processing through what I
was going to do that week, and there was a
moment for me. And I've always said this, the reason
I finally decided to do it was exactly what you
just said. So I would agree with you. I don't
know if it's right or wrong. I just agree with you. Well,
(14:41):
I felt like, hey, I want to value I know
one of these people are going to be going home
at the end of this, maybe both of them if
it backfires on me here, but at least one of them.
And what I want them to know is how important
this was for me. Also, I don't want them to
leave without knowing that this was real for me. And
so the validation in my mind call me right or wrong.
(15:05):
And and now you know, I look back six years
and say I regret saying I don't regret feeling and
I'm not saying I didn't. I just don't think it
was the wise thing to do. I don't think it
was is it didn't keep things uh clean, it messed
stuff up, which I think you're probably experiencing. But the
validation side of this was exactly why I did it.
(15:26):
And so after you said it to them then like
it's you know the first two at least, um, was
there a weightlifted, like did you feel like, oh, though
this was the good decision or was there like a
hint of already regret in your mind going I think
I might have just messed this whole thing up. In
the moment when I told you to the women, the
(15:46):
reactions they gave me was it was exciting. I was happy.
I could see the joy in their face. I finally
know where this guy stands. And I was so happy
in that moment to have opened up to them. I
felt them like, this is great. Now they're not going
to put their walls up. We're fully in. They know
where I stand, I know where they stand, and it
felt right. But as they showed the last night's episode,
(16:09):
there was a clip where I just I said, I'm
realizing I'm going to hurt somebody, and I broke down
because I thought back to that moment as I I
think that was after I was stayed overnight with Gabby
and I realized I was, like, it hit me as
I was away from the women and I was sitting
there in that interview, it hit me like just a
(16:31):
brick wall. I realized, I'm like, you're in You're in trouble,
Like you're not in a good spot right now. You
have two women that you've just experienced overnights with that
I could see walking out of here engage with you,
and you told them both that you're that you're in
love with them, but someone's gonna get hurt. And that
(16:51):
was when I realized, when I was away from the
women that I can't compartmentalize it. When I'm with him,
I can, but when a second him away from them
is when it all came flooding in. I was like,
You're you're deep, You're you're not in a good spot.
So then why did you go ahead and say it
to Susie? You just felt like you had to like
do the full circle. No, I told Susie, because again,
while I knew that it wasn't a good spot to
(17:15):
be in, I told those women and I and I
and again I saw their reactions and I saw that
it's like, Okay, now they know where I stand. I
felt that I was like, I should tell Susie, this
is screwed up. It's messed up. I'm in love with
multiple women, but I was the most in love with her,
and I'm like, I'm not going to hold back on
telling her now just because I told the other two women, like,
(17:36):
I have to approach this as every this I'm when
I'm with them, I'm with them, and I can't allow
what I've donner said to another relationship to impact how
I treat that other person. When I talked to him
and so I knew it wasn't a bad spot. But
I thought again that, well, don't hold back. Let these
(17:56):
women know, and then maybe they will come to understand
that like he did fall in love with other women,
but his heart was in the right place. He just
wasn't a really really unique, once in a lifetime spot.
And I can be well, I am willing to forgive
him and see that, Like it's a tough spot to
be in. I think you've answered our question when it
(18:24):
comes to why you did what you did. And I mean,
I'm out of anybody, I am not one to criticize
you for expressing your emotions towards you know, these women.
I I get it, and like, I'll stand behind you
on that fully and I'll say I understand. And there's
been bachelorette leads who have expressed it to more than
one person. You're not alone and and that you felt
(18:45):
something for each woman and was it right or wrong
that you told them? You know, that's yet that that
can be argued right, that that we there's multi people
who believe different things. But that's not why. But the
love part of this, even though it's getting criticized, which happens,
is not the thing that most people are talking about.
(19:06):
It's going back to how we started this conversation with
how you handled um, the conversation with Susie once you
were put on the spot and asked, how do you
feel about somebody else? And have you sup with them?
So let's let's start digging into this and getting where
you're at again on that because I think this is
this is what everybody is wondering and I guess I
(19:29):
want to start this conversation with after seeing it last night.
There's no secret Clayton. You're you're being labeled and characterized.
I mean your characters in question completely right now by
the fans of the Bachelor. How does that feel for you?
And what would you say to them as a response
(19:49):
to the last you know, fifteen hours since the show aired.
It's tough because I've seen what everyone's saying, and they're
using some at the descriptive terms, some pretty heavy heading
terms that I couldn't disagree with more um, but I
understand that it appears that way, and I don't I
(20:11):
don't even want to use the words because it's not
that it couldn't be farther from the truth. But what
I can say is this is that I did not
handle it well. I didn't. I mean, it was not
handled maturely. I I raised my voice to her, I
became I was grasping at straws. I was trying to
(20:32):
find anything that I could at that point to get
her to stay like I just wanted her to give
me a chance. And so I went through this this
gauntlet of emotions where at first our conversation was very cordial.
At first we were back and forth, no tone, there
was no raised tone. We were going back and forth
and having this discussion and working through it about you know,
(20:56):
the third or fourth time that she said I can't
work past this. We stepped aside, she she got up
and she walked out, And then I started to have
these really dangerous thoughts. I thought, why does it seem
like she's not fighting for this, Why does it seem
like she can't even give me a chance? Like I
didn't know she felt this way, and I understand, like
(21:18):
I just I'm wondering why she won't just try to
give me a second chance because I wasn't aware of
how she felt, and I made assumptions and I wish
I wouldn't have. But then I started to think, like
the way that she's acting with everything else that had
happened prior with Sarah playing this game of you know,
trying to take get the other woman to leave through
making up lies, and it was I don't know for
(21:40):
whatever reason she was doing that, but I started to think, Okay,
go back to realistically. I'm like these some of these
women came here for the wrong reasons to push their
own agenda. So I started having these really dangerous thoughts
of being like, well, what happened. What if Susie right
now is just trying to get out of this. What
if She's just saying whatever she needs to say to
leave me so that she could be the next batcheorette.
And that was a thought that I had, and when
(22:02):
I when she came outside and I was talking to Jesse,
that was my thought. And she goes, do you want
to go back and talk inside? I said, and I
kind of was like, that's when you could see the
tone ship because at that point I started looking at
her as if she was playing me the entire times
as other women had, and so I became I'd started
to be in a really dangerous headspace, and I questioned her,
(22:24):
and that's why I said, I don't know who I'm
even looking at anymore, because in that moment, I really
believed at that point that she was just feeding me
whatever she needed to to get out of there so
she could be the next batcherette. I don't believe that now.
I didn't believe it the next day, but I believed
it in that moment, and because of that, I allowed
(22:46):
my emotions to take over and I just wasn't at
that point. Nothing she said was going to get through
to me at that point, because I I just convinced
myself that you aren't here for me, you never were,
but you will admit that what you the actions that
you took, the words that you used were like definition gaslighting,
(23:07):
Like you totally flipped the situation and made it seemed
like you were the victim and that she was this
person that was like just being horrible to you. I
don't agree that I was gaslighting because I had I
looked that up and it said, you know, the gaslighting,
the definition is trying to convince someone of a different
reality than what is actually, um the true reality of
(23:31):
the situation. And again I think I hadn't just kind
of admitted that you were making things up in your head,
but it wasn't. I think gaslighting, in my eyes, is
something where you have bad intentions, you're trying to manipulate somebody,
and I was not at all trying to do that.
My reality was in my head at that point. I
believe what I believed. I had no bad intentions. I
(23:51):
just was voicing my concerns to her at that point
in my frustrations and my feelings. But I would not
say at all, No, I told the disagree on the
gas lighting concept because I was not trying to manipulate
her from my benefit at all. I had no intention
of doing that. I am not that kind of person,
and that does strike a chord with me, because that's
not me. I not was not trying to tell her
(24:13):
that she was wrong. I was trying to figure out
why she couldn't give me another chance. But I wasn't
sitting here saying you're wrong. You have the wrong perspective
on this, and you need to believe my perspective. My
whole hope was just, hey, we got we're we're at
a disagreement right now, but can we work past this?
Can we fight through this? That's all I wanted to do.
(24:34):
See your hope was I mean, if I'm hearing you right,
your hope was like your goal ultimately, I was like
to keep her around because you thought there was still
something there, Like you still believe that your future could
be with Susie, and so you you were at you
were doing whatever you could is in your words, grasp
me at straws to try to convince her to stay
(24:55):
when she was committed to leaving UM at that point.
And so how I hear this and tell me if
I'm wrong, is something happened in this process where your
ego got deeply hurt. And I get how that can
happen to right, We've been there, but there's something that
happened along this journey that maybe we saw or didn't see,
(25:16):
where now you're feeling like I have to um be
on guard for the people trying to leave the show,
for the women that aren't in this for the right
things and that aren't interested in me. And it felt like,
I mean what I'm hearing is at this moment, your
ego got in the way and you were trying to
protect everything, especially the fact that you didn't want Susie
(25:38):
to walk out. And so my I guess that's one
question where did that get hurt? In the second is
why weren't you okay with her leaving? Like ultimately, like
why did it matter if she want if she wanted
to be the next Bachelor at like let her go,
let her go do that because you still got two
women you're in love with sitting in a house somewhere. Yeah.
(25:59):
So I when I hear the term ego, I I
guess if you want to say, I was very much
at that point in a very I had a very
timid I was very just nerves nervous that I had
you know Sarah played this game with me. I had
(26:19):
other women that had left that you know, just wasn't shown.
But like people that came here just to push their
own agenda, to to to to take for this to
be a stepping stone for their I mean again, I
don't want to sit here and say all these women
came here for me. They didn't even like, No, that's
not true at all. We all know this, So let's
call it for what it is. Like the a lot
of people came here for their own personal benefit, and
(26:39):
but there were women that said, Okay, hey, yes I did,
I could, this could be a stepping stone, but I
could also fall for this guy. And so there were
genuine women that were here to say, hey, this is possible.
But what happened was is really what it was. At
the turning point was when I found out because I
had no idea. But when I found out Sarah was
lying to the other women and telling them things like, oh,
(27:00):
he said after our first one on one that I
was going to be um at the end of it
all with him, he was already constructing his his hometowns
after week one, and that he was crying with me. Uh,
you know, these are things. I was like, why are
you making this up? You're making seem like this extremely
strong connection and we we have a connection, but you're
you're these women now are all gonna leave? And like
(27:20):
they all came to me like we thought. I thought
about leaving at one point, so when I had to
have the women come tell me because I didn't see
that like Sarah played it well, then I thought, Okay,
if she's playing that game, who could still be playing
this game? Like she played it all the way until
right four hometowns. I almost took her to hometowns. Therefore,
I thought, is there anyone else that's still potentially playing me?
(27:41):
And yeah, at that point, I was freaked out. I
was very insecure because just because I I everything started
creep in that you're on a show, man like you
have to understand that people the show faces criticism for
people coming on here to become popular, to gain followers
and all that, and you came here with with the
mind the headspace if you want to fall for somebody,
(28:02):
you think it's possible. But now you're you're you're wondering
if these women feel the same way. And I told myself, no,
you have an incredible final four women, that's not the
case with them. And I didn't believe it until in
that moment when I talked to Susie. It was like
all of a sudden that thought crept back in. It
came racing in in that moment. Why to answer your question,
(28:23):
why couldn't I just let her go when she said that,
I mean, ultimately, I know that I walked her out
quote unquote, but I did let her go at that point.
I didn't handle it right. I my tone, I raised
my tone, I stopped listening, and it was immature and
I did not handle it correctly. But I did let
her go in that moment, and that was what I
(28:44):
said right as I opened the corridor. I said, I
believe everything happens for a reason. I don't know why
this was supposed to happen, but it did, and so
I'm going to move on, And so I did. I
did let her go. I just but I was fighting
because this again, I saw this person potentially being the
woman of my dreams, my future wife, and I was
(29:05):
not going to just say, okay, all right, that's how
you feel. Well, it was great knowing you, and I
wish you the best. I was going to fight for it,
and I fought for it with every last ounce of
fight in my body. It doesn't mean I did the
right way, but I fought all the way till the end.
M Well, you said that Susie. You don't feel like
Susie fought for you in that moment? How do you
(29:28):
feel about that? That line? Now? It was untrue. It
was untrue. I remember that I when she walked out,
I remember talking to the producers and I said she
was cold. I said, she showed no emotion whatsoever, And
how do you feel about that? Now? I was wrong
(29:50):
a thousand percent, but because I was so hurt and
upset that I even felt as though she gave no
emotion from start to finish. And I watch it back now,
and it's clear as day. The motion was there. She
was try like she was torn, but I couldn't see
that because I was just trying to do everything in
(30:12):
my power to, like see if I could convince her
to give me a second chance. And when I couldn't
do that, I just looked back at it all because
it all would have mean it was. It was probably
three hours of conversation. Of course, if they can only
pack in what they can but it was a three
hour conversation, and I just at that point, I'm like, man,
she like she seemed cold. But now I watched it back,
(30:35):
I'm like, no, she didn't seem cold at all. Man.
You literally had the wrong perspective. You couldn't even see
her perspective then, And yeah, there's a lot of things
that I look back now, I'm like, what were you thinking?
But I was thinking what I'm telling, what I've told
you all throughout this entire discussion. I was in that
headspace and it wasn't the right head space as I
look back at it now, But I was in that
in that moment. That's the that's the head space I
(30:56):
was in. Clayton, You obviously have a few more weeks left. Um.
You know you've you've explained UM the whole situation to us.
So as these next weeks go on, and as UM
people continue to watch UM your journey unfold, what what
(31:16):
would you want to say, UM, to anybody out there
who listens to this, who watches the show, who watched
last night, People that are really hurt by the conversation
that took place, People that are are now saying, you know,
we saw a side of Clayton we've never seen before,
um or up to this point. Is this who he is?
(31:38):
Is this the man that we've you know, has he
been hit hiding in his suit all season up into
this point? Just give you the floor to say whatever
it is you want to say. Um to anybody out
there for the you know, as they watch you the
next couple of weeks. I just asked people to have
patients and understanding that when I say I followed my
(32:00):
heart and I was doing everything that I thought was best,
that that is exactly what it was. Was it right? No,
people are seeing the mistakes I made. People are seeing
I see them. I accept full responsibility. I want people
to understand that everything that I'm saying in these podcasts
right now is I'm talking to you all is not
an excuse. I'm here because you guys brought me on
(32:23):
to talk about it. I'm giving explanations. That does not
mean I'm trying to dodge any bit of blame. I
take all of the blame, okay, And I want people
to understand that I'm not making any excuses. I'm just
providing explanations to let people understand here's what I thought
in that moment going forward. Again, I take all of it.
I'm fully accountable. I am not that person that was
(32:45):
shown then. I allowed my emotions to get the best
of me with everything going on, and hopefully people will
see in the coming weeks that following my heart makes sense.
But that's where again I have to wait until it's
until it's shown all the way through. People have already
shown that they're not going to have that patience. That's fine.
(33:06):
People have the right to decide to react as sooner
or they We can wait into and and I've had
a lot of great people reach out to me and say, hey,
I see you know, I see your frustration. People that
know me are still in my corner. They know that
there's so much more to it. People that don't know me,
they see what they see and they make a judgment.
I can't fault anybody for that, but I just tell
people to see it all the way through, all the
(33:29):
way through until the end of the finale, and then
cast your judgment. Clayton Um final question for you, what
have you learned since last night? Oh? Man, uh so much.
I learned that one of the greatest things that I
(33:50):
learned was the power of emotion when you allow that
to overcome rationale. I see for me personally, I saw
that I shut down and I jump to a lot
of conclusions that aren't realistic, that weren't the truth. And
(34:10):
so I've known this before, but I know now going forward, Ever,
if I ever get overwhelmed, ever, if I'm ever in
over if I'm ever in a situation where I'm ever
ever overwhelmed like that, ever again, to take a deep
breath and step aside, say I need to take five like,
just step away. I in that moment did not do that.
(34:31):
And I wish I would have just taken a breather
and walked outside and said give me twenty minutes like,
but I didn't. Um. I also learned again that you know,
my reality is one thing, and someone else's reality is another,
and and and reality perception is reality, however people perceive
(34:52):
it is, that's the reality of it. I think her
and I both. I think her and I both both
as far as our and and not in our actions,
but in our thoughts and feelings were justified. My actions
were indefensible when I when I started to raise my
voice and make and accuse her. But I think that again,
(35:12):
I saw that's like, this isn't black and white, as
you said earlier, this show this with the show, it's
not black and white. It's hard to date thirty women.
I'm dating thirty women, they're dating one man, and so
there's this major disconnect and you try to come into
the middle and find the common ground. And I didn't
and and unfortunately we That's where we came to a
(35:34):
head is when we I said, how do you not
understand this? Like, I'm dating thirty women, What's there's multiple relationships?
What's how is that hard to believe? And she was,
you know, saying, how can you fall from multiple people?
Like I'm only falling for you? And there's that disconnect.
So I I've learned a ton because I watched it
back now and I'm like, yeah, I'm like now I'm
on the outside of it, being like dude, like you
(35:55):
really fell in deep to this, and you fully believed,
and you you really wanted to just make it work,
and so you adapted, you did whatever you could, and
you and things were just like you said, things were
going great for me. They were going great, I'll up
until this point. Other than that, I mean, there was
drama with all that with Shane, that I wasn't really
involved heavily in that because I was building these other
(36:15):
connections while that was occurring. So I thought things were great.
I was like, everything's going great, every You're doing things
in the right way. And then it just came boom.
It hit me at once, and I realized, like, this
is because of your own actions what you did. This
is now you have to face the repercussions for the
situation that you that you're in. So all of that
(36:36):
just to say, yeah, I mean, I just hope people
can understand that I didn't have any bad intentions. I
wasn't I was not playing these women. I had genuine connections.
I was trying to compartmentalize one relationship to the next
and really give every one of these women of equal
chance until I could figure out who is the best
fit for me, and I just along the way and
(36:58):
made decisions that I wish I would have done differently.
Claim thanks for joining us today, man, Yes, thank you
for UM. We appreciate you being here, UM and expressing
all of the things that you've been feeling over the
past twenty four hours plus. Yeah, no matter what, this
is not ideal, right to sit down and have to
talk about it, um and then have millions of people
(37:20):
watch it. But UM, we do appreciate you sit down
and talking with us today and uh, um we wish
you the best. Um. We know it won't be easy,
We know uh that criticism is going to come. Um,
but we do wish you the best in the following
weeks as this season unfolds. So thanks for joining us
(37:43):
on the Almost Famous podcast. Thanks guys. Follow the Benn
and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast on ihurt Radio or
subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.
This is the Benn and Ashley I almost famous podcast
with her Radio Ashley, it's a big day for us. Um,
it's a tough day for our guest, but a big
day for us. Oh my gosh, big, big day. Gonna
be honest, A little nervous for this interview, are you? Yeah?
(00:21):
You know, because I don't know what to expect from
this guy anymore. And this guy that I referred to
its Clayton. Clayton. Clayton is here with us today. Clayton
is joining us today to do a sit down. We're
gonna talk to him about everything going on in the show. Um. Obviously, UM,
it's been a well let's let's get his opinion. I
(00:41):
guess I don't want to put words into his mouth.
I'm assuming it's been a tough couple of months. One
of the hardest UM rides as a lead I can remember,
meaning from really start to finish, it hasn't felt like Um,
there is a ton of team Colton or team Clayton
switched spots, dang it. Um, you know, And so I
(01:05):
want to talk to him about I want to hear
how he's holding up, because that I was always important
when it comes to a human. It's like, you know,
nobody here wants anybody to um like her. However, we
want them to learn their lesson. Yeah, but being held
accountable is definitely something that's necessary. And so let's hold
Clayton accountable for the things he's done throughout the season,
(01:28):
and especially the conversation with Susie. We'll get his thoughts
here in just a second. Um, actual, let's take a break,
Let's get a glass of water, come back, and let's
talk to Clayton. All right, well, Clayton is on the line. Clayton,
(01:53):
how do you feel today? You can give us as
many words as you need to describe your feelings. Yeah,
I mean I'm gosh, I mean, woke up with a
pounding headache, just stressed out. I'm embarrassed. I knew that
this month was coming. I'd kind of alluded to it
(02:13):
previous weeks, and so yeah, I'm not exactly shocked by
the reactions online, although it appears that, yeah, I mean,
it's heavily people are very much against me and favoring her.
But I totally understand now, I totally get what I'm seeing,
and I think that it's Yeah, I mean, I'm embarrassed.
(02:34):
I wish that I could have seen her side in
that moment um and I I just didn't. In that moment,
I didn't see her side. I didn't want to see
her side because I knew if I saw her side
and accepted it, that it was it was. That was
the end of it, right then and there. And so
I know we'll jump in this, and I have a
million thoughts already. I'm like, here we go. I'm already
(02:54):
starting ramble. But I just there's so much that I
wish that I would have done differently, and I wish
I could have seen her side. But I was when
she dropped that news on me. I just was crushed
watching this person, and I thought I may get engaged
to essentially say hey, I'm done and it's over and
there's nothing you can do. And that just my emotions
overcame me and and that's what everyone saw. But essentially,
(03:16):
essentially you're the one to tell her to leave. I mean,
yes and no, I know that again, like from what
people saw, she she said, you know, hey, I can't
look past this. And then multiple times in that conversation,
I asked like, can we work past this? And she
(03:37):
just said, you know, no, I can, I'm not able to.
And so at that point, I realized that there's no
more reason for us to talk like I have tried.
I've asked three or four times to work through this.
If we can get past this, can we take some
time off camera and talk this through. And she's said,
you know, I don't think it's gonna change anything, and
so um at that point, I felt that there was
(03:58):
no reason to keep it going. And that's when I listen,
there's no we're not getting anywhere. My emotions, I knew
were getting the best to me. That's why I told
him like I apologize, like my for raising my voice,
and I knew that it wasn't productive any longer. It
was too emotional, and I had to step away. Unfortunately,
this isn't a conversation where you can step away and
revisit the next day, because it's the show. It's like,
(04:20):
once she's gone, it's gone, She's done, and that's it.
And I just I knew I was not nego to
headspace at that place, and I had to just stop
the conversation from continuing. You you say you're not in
a good headspace. Can we go back? Because I think
you know you just said you woke up with a
pounding headache. I'm assuming it wasn't from drinking. Um, I'm
(04:41):
assuming it was from just stress. The stress, the you're
watching it back and now reliving that moment and now
seeing so many people, millions of people watch it last
night and have opinions on it. Right, Um, we go
back then for everybody to get some clarity on why
(05:02):
you got so emotional, like why you're inside started to
come out, you know, through your mouth in ways that
you probably wouldn't have wanted. And now you do look
back and say, you know you regret. Yeah, it's it's
it's really as I watched it back last night, I
see it now from the outside and I see her
(05:24):
a side completely and it's like and to me, I
watched it and I thought, how could you not see
that in that moment? And I want to say this again.
I just want to be able to provide explanation so
people can understand my thought process, because my thought process
then is different than my thought process as now. And
I accept ful accountability for my actions. I'm not trying
to make any excuses. I hope no one. I hope
everyone understands that this is just me explaining what I
(05:46):
was thinking in that moment. Doesn't mean it was right,
but I essentially believed in the process. I stepped in
as the bachelor and I said, Okay, I'm in a
day thirty woman, and this will be acceptable. You know,
this is the only environment where you can kiss a
woman in front of thirty other women and they're going
to still stick around and and and try to be
(06:06):
with you the next day. You could never do that
in the real world with people, you know. You know,
it's just not feasible, and so you start to think that, Okay,
things work differently here, so there's a little bit of leeway,
and so just it's not real world applicable. Because of that,
I started to adapt to the environment, and I started
to say, Okay, well, I'm assuming that these women understand
(06:29):
how fancy to see fancy sweets go. I'm assuming they
understand I might fall in love with multiple women. So
that's just that's unknown. And what I saw, as we
saw last night, is that Susie did not adapt to
the environment. She stayed herself her true self from outside
the show versus coming into the show, and I commend
(06:51):
her for that. I think that's incredibly respectful that the
disconnect was I adapted, she didn't, and we were on
these two different fields of understanding. And as I look
back at it now from being on the outside of it,
that's now I'm like, Okay, yeah, her side of it
makes complete sense. Why could you not see it? And
I just couldn't in that moment because I was very
(07:12):
entrenched in that belief that things work differently there. So
what would have happened if she had the first fantasy
suite and she would have told you, I can't be
here any longer if you sleep with anyone else. Yeah,
you know, it's tough about what if scenario, because again,
what happened happened. And I would like to believe that
(07:36):
if she went first and she gave me the ultimatum,
that I would have sat back and said, Okay, you
realize if you take forward, take any more action going forward,
that this could be it for you too. I was
never faced with the end of the line with us
until that point that you saw last night. So I
would like to think that when I, if I realized
(07:58):
the door was going to either be open or closed
from that point forward, depending on based on my actions,
that I would have. I would have not been intimate
with probably anybody at that point because I wouldn't want
to mix it up. But my feelings of falling in
love with the women were already there at that point.
(08:18):
They were already there at the beginning of fancy suites.
So if I would have sat and talked to her
and said I'm in love with these other two women
as well, and she said that's a deal breaker, then
it wouldn't have mattered if she went first or third.
The only thing that I could have changed is, Okay,
I cannot be intimate with anybody and protect everyone, and
I believe I would have done that, but I would
(08:39):
have still had the feelings. I started following up these
women back in hometowns, maybe even before. I didn't tell
anybody going into hometowns because again I was still trying
to make sense of it. On fighting the fact that
I was I had fallen from multiple women, and I
didn't want to believe it because I knew it would
get mess in now everyone sees like it did, and
I didn't want to. I told myself, I will not
fall in love with multile women, and I fought it
(09:00):
and fought it and fought it and held back those
emotions and then realized that, like, those emotions were there,
and I did feel that way about those women, so
I know it doesn't make sense. And again people say
you can't fall in love with three women, and it's like, okay,
then you won't ever believe me, But I did, and
I'll swear I swear about it. You can put a
lie detector test on me like I did. I fell
in love with multiple women and I can't take that back.
(09:22):
But if she'd went first, I believe I probably would
just not have slept with any of them. Okay, well,
you said in that scene that you loved her the most.
When did you start feeling that or do you feel
like that was just a reaction in the moment. No.
I I started feeling that right around hometowns and right
(09:44):
after things went so great with her family. And again
I compartmentalize these relationships where when I was just with them,
I that's all I saw because I thought that was
the right way to approach. It was like, if you
want to give this a fair shot, when you're with
this woman and you're only with her, there are no
other women you want to pour into that that person
a percent. But then once I would step away, I'd realize, okay, wait,
(10:07):
so where do I feel? How do I feel? And
of course they weren't all equivalent going into fancy suitets.
There were you know, I had more love for, like
I said, Susie than I did for neither Gabby or Rachel.
But going into fancy suitets, my thought well as is
that deal breakers can come up. Um, we might not
have any physical intimacy. And if Susie and I happened,
if that wouldn't have happened, and we would have went
(10:28):
into fancy suits and be were intimate and we had
no compatibility sexually, then that would have shifted. I would
have now been in potentially more in love with one
of the other two women. Because physical intimacy is such
a critical part of relationship. I cannot get engaged to
somebody if there's no sexual chemistry. It's just that's just me.
Maybe that's not everybody else's, but for me, that's so critical.
(10:49):
If I'm going to get engaged, that has to be there. Let's, um,
let's talk a bit. I mean, I'm interested, right, because
I've been there. I get it. Um, people people were
really confused when I told two women I loved them. Uh,
(11:10):
everything was going pretty good for me the show, people
were watching it, people were into it. And then all
of a sudden, I did this thing. And I didn't
know how big of a deal it was until it happened.
I had no prep. I was even nervous about the
episode hearing. I actually thought everybody be like, Oh that
was That'd be so hard, Like that's such a tough
(11:30):
place for your heart to be at. Instead, I you know, um,
I felt some of the pain that I think you're
feeling today and some of the confusion. So for a
second here, let's talk about why you decided to say
what you did and express those emotions. You've touched on it.
But ultimately, when you sat down and you made the
intentional decision to tell two women at that point or
(11:51):
and then three that you were in love with them,
why did you think that was a good idea. I mean,
I didn't think it was a good idea because you
don't want to tell multiple women that you're in love
with them. I mean, just look at it from the
standpoint of I told a woman that I love that
(12:11):
I'm the most in love with you implying I was
in love with other women. I mean, in what sense
would again, would you move forward with when get engaged
with so many three days later? If you're saying, hey,
I'm in love with you, but I'm also in love
with other women, it doesn't make sense. Now I see
them like, it does not make sense. But I made
it make sense in that moment. I had to make
it make sense because if against Susie and I didn't
have any physical intimacy, no compatibility, then I will say, Okay,
(12:35):
well that's that's no longer. We're not gonna work out.
So now I need to focus on these other two
relationships and who I feel most compatible with. But this
goes back to if I would have withheld those emotions.
I did. I did actually with all those emotions. I
was falling for Serene as well, and I had and
(12:55):
when she told me when I sent her home and
she and very upset, she was I just want to know,
is it because of what I said and she was
talking about? Is because I told you I was in
love with you? And is that why you turn't shut down?
And in that moment, I realized because I had not
validated her or given her any explanation or any clue
as to where I stood with her, that everything was
(13:18):
invalidated to her at that moment, and she felt that
because she opened up, it shut me down, and my
fear was going forward if that happened to her, what
happens if these other women start to feel the same way.
They don't know where I stand. So how am I
gonna When am I going to tell them? And it's
gonna wait all the way until the final the final
week right for engagement and tell someone right there that hey,
(13:39):
I'm in love with you. I think that's to me,
it's like they need to know your in love with
them before you get engaged. You tell them right there
and there the day of it, just when I don't
know when is the right time to tell somebody on
the on that ship, on the show, when you're falling
in love with them, and I know people say, okay,
well you she just told one person what I was.
I was in love with multiple women. I don't so
(14:00):
I felt that I should tell them all at the
same time. After this this, after Hometowns, that's just the
next time I saw him was overnights and I felt
I was like, this is where you're at so you
need to let these women know as soon as possible
when you told him, because I mean, I'm trying to
go back into that season of life. I remember I
(14:21):
was telling Ashley yesterday. I remember walking around my hotel room.
I was in Jamaica and um processing through what I
was going to do that week, and there was a
moment for me. And I've always said this, the reason
I finally decided to do it was exactly what you
just said. So I would agree with you. I don't
know if it's right or wrong. I just agree with you. Well,
(14:41):
I felt like, hey, I want to value I know
one of these people are going to be going home
at the end of this, maybe both of them if
it backfires on me here, but at least one of them.
And what I want them to know is how important
this was for me. Also, I don't want them to
leave without knowing that this was real for me. And
so the validation in my mind call me right or wrong.
(15:05):
And and now you know, I look back six years
and say I regret saying I don't regret feeling and
I'm not saying I didn't. I just don't think it
was the wise thing to do. I don't think it
was is it didn't keep things uh clean, it messed
stuff up, which I think you're probably experiencing. But the
validation side of this was exactly why I did it.
(15:26):
And so after you said it to them then like
it's you know the first two at least, um, was
there a weightlifted, like did you feel like, oh, though
this was the good decision or was there like a
hint of already regret in your mind going I think
I might have just messed this whole thing up. In
the moment when I told you to the women, the
(15:46):
reactions they gave me was it was exciting. I was happy.
I could see the joy in their face. I finally
know where this guy stands. And I was so happy
in that moment to have opened up to them. I
felt them like, this is great. Now they're not going
to put their walls up. We're fully in. They know
where I stand, I know where they stand, and it
felt right. But as they showed the last night's episode,
(16:09):
there was a clip where I just I said, I'm
realizing I'm going to hurt somebody, and I broke down
because I thought back to that moment as I I
think that was after I was stayed overnight with Gabby
and I realized I was, like, it hit me as
I was away from the women and I was sitting
there in that interview, it hit me like just a
(16:31):
brick wall. I realized, I'm like, you're in You're in trouble,
Like you're not in a good spot right now. You
have two women that you've just experienced overnights with that
I could see walking out of here engage with you,
and you told them both that you're that you're in
love with them, but someone's gonna get hurt. And that
(16:51):
was when I realized, when I was away from the
women that I can't compartmentalize it. When I'm with him,
I can, but when a second him away from them
is when it all came flooding in. I was like,
You're you're deep, You're you're not in a good spot.
So then why did you go ahead and say it
to Susie? You just felt like you had to like
do the full circle. No, I told Susie, because again,
while I knew that it wasn't a good spot to
(17:15):
be in, I told those women and I and I
and again I saw their reactions and I saw that
it's like, Okay, now they know where I stand. I
felt that I was like, I should tell Susie, this
is screwed up. It's messed up. I'm in love with
multiple women, but I was the most in love with her,
and I'm like, I'm not going to hold back on
telling her now just because I told the other two women, like,
(17:36):
I have to approach this as every this I'm when
I'm with them, I'm with them, and I can't allow
what I've donner said to another relationship to impact how
I treat that other person. When I talked to him
and so I knew it wasn't a bad spot. But
I thought again that, well, don't hold back. Let these
(17:56):
women know, and then maybe they will come to understand
that like he did fall in love with other women,
but his heart was in the right place. He just
wasn't a really really unique, once in a lifetime spot.
And I can be well, I am willing to forgive
him and see that, Like it's a tough spot to
be in. I think you've answered our question when it
(18:24):
comes to why you did what you did. And I mean,
I'm out of anybody, I am not one to criticize
you for expressing your emotions towards you know, these women.
I I get it, and like, I'll stand behind you
on that fully and I'll say I understand. And there's
been bachelorette leads who have expressed it to more than
one person. You're not alone and and that you felt
(18:45):
something for each woman and was it right or wrong
that you told them? You know, that's yet that that
can be argued right, that that we there's multi people
who believe different things. But that's not why. But the
love part of this, even though it's getting criticized, which happens,
is not the thing that most people are talking about.
(19:06):
It's going back to how we started this conversation with
how you handled um, the conversation with Susie once you
were put on the spot and asked, how do you
feel about somebody else? And have you sup with them?
So let's let's start digging into this and getting where
you're at again on that because I think this is
this is what everybody is wondering and I guess I
(19:29):
want to start this conversation with after seeing it last night.
There's no secret Clayton. You're you're being labeled and characterized.
I mean your characters in question completely right now by
the fans of the Bachelor. How does that feel for you?
And what would you say to them as a response
(19:49):
to the last you know, fifteen hours since the show aired.
It's tough because I've seen what everyone's saying, and they're
using some at the descriptive terms, some pretty heavy heading
terms that I couldn't disagree with more um, but I
understand that it appears that way, and I don't I
(20:11):
don't even want to use the words because it's not
that it couldn't be farther from the truth. But what
I can say is this is that I did not
handle it well. I didn't. I mean, it was not
handled maturely. I I raised my voice to her, I
became I was grasping at straws. I was trying to
(20:32):
find anything that I could at that point to get
her to stay like I just wanted her to give
me a chance. And so I went through this this
gauntlet of emotions where at first our conversation was very cordial.
At first we were back and forth, no tone, there
was no raised tone. We were going back and forth
and having this discussion and working through it about you know,
(20:56):
the third or fourth time that she said I can't
work past this. We stepped aside, she she got up
and she walked out, And then I started to have
these really dangerous thoughts. I thought, why does it seem
like she's not fighting for this, Why does it seem
like she can't even give me a chance? Like I
didn't know she felt this way, and I understand, like
(21:18):
I just I'm wondering why she won't just try to
give me a second chance because I wasn't aware of
how she felt, and I made assumptions and I wish
I wouldn't have. But then I started to think, like
the way that she's acting with everything else that had
happened prior with Sarah playing this game of you know,
trying to take get the other woman to leave through
making up lies, and it was I don't know for
(21:40):
whatever reason she was doing that, but I started to think, Okay,
go back to realistically. I'm like these some of these
women came here for the wrong reasons to push their
own agenda. So I started having these really dangerous thoughts
of being like, well, what happened. What if Susie right
now is just trying to get out of this. What
if She's just saying whatever she needs to say to
leave me so that she could be the next batcheorette.
And that was a thought that I had, and when
(22:02):
I when she came outside and I was talking to Jesse,
that was my thought. And she goes, do you want
to go back and talk inside? I said, and I
kind of was like, that's when you could see the
tone ship because at that point I started looking at
her as if she was playing me the entire times
as other women had, and so I became I'd started
to be in a really dangerous headspace, and I questioned her,
(22:24):
and that's why I said, I don't know who I'm
even looking at anymore, because in that moment, I really
believed at that point that she was just feeding me
whatever she needed to to get out of there so
she could be the next batcherette. I don't believe that now.
I didn't believe it the next day, but I believed
it in that moment, and because of that, I allowed
(22:46):
my emotions to take over and I just wasn't at
that point. Nothing she said was going to get through
to me at that point, because I I just convinced
myself that you aren't here for me, you never were,
but you will admit that what you the actions that
you took, the words that you used were like definition gaslighting,
(23:07):
Like you totally flipped the situation and made it seemed
like you were the victim and that she was this
person that was like just being horrible to you. I
don't agree that I was gaslighting because I had I
looked that up and it said, you know, the gaslighting,
the definition is trying to convince someone of a different
reality than what is actually, um the true reality of
(23:31):
the situation. And again I think I hadn't just kind
of admitted that you were making things up in your head,
but it wasn't. I think gaslighting, in my eyes, is
something where you have bad intentions, you're trying to manipulate somebody,
and I was not at all trying to do that.
My reality was in my head at that point. I
believe what I believed. I had no bad intentions. I
(23:51):
just was voicing my concerns to her at that point
in my frustrations and my feelings. But I would not
say at all, No, I told the disagree on the
gas lighting concept because I was not trying to manipulate
her from my benefit at all. I had no intention
of doing that. I am not that kind of person,
and that does strike a chord with me, because that's
not me. I not was not trying to tell her
(24:13):
that she was wrong. I was trying to figure out
why she couldn't give me another chance. But I wasn't
sitting here saying you're wrong. You have the wrong perspective
on this, and you need to believe my perspective. My
whole hope was just, hey, we got we're we're at
a disagreement right now, but can we work past this?
Can we fight through this? That's all I wanted to do.
(24:34):
See your hope was I mean, if I'm hearing you right,
your hope was like your goal ultimately, I was like
to keep her around because you thought there was still
something there, Like you still believe that your future could
be with Susie, and so you you were at you
were doing whatever you could is in your words, grasp
me at straws to try to convince her to stay
(24:55):
when she was committed to leaving UM at that point.
And so how I hear this and tell me if
I'm wrong, is something happened in this process where your
ego got deeply hurt. And I get how that can
happen to right, We've been there, but there's something that
happened along this journey that maybe we saw or didn't see,
(25:16):
where now you're feeling like I have to um be
on guard for the people trying to leave the show,
for the women that aren't in this for the right
things and that aren't interested in me. And it felt like,
I mean what I'm hearing is at this moment, your
ego got in the way and you were trying to
protect everything, especially the fact that you didn't want Susie
(25:38):
to walk out. And so my I guess that's one
question where did that get hurt? In the second is
why weren't you okay with her leaving? Like ultimately, like
why did it matter if she want if she wanted
to be the next Bachelor at like let her go,
let her go do that because you still got two
women you're in love with sitting in a house somewhere. Yeah.
(25:59):
So I when I hear the term ego, I I
guess if you want to say, I was very much
at that point in a very I had a very
timid I was very just nerves nervous that I had
you know Sarah played this game with me. I had
(26:19):
other women that had left that you know, just wasn't shown.
But like people that came here just to push their
own agenda, to to to to take for this to
be a stepping stone for their I mean again, I
don't want to sit here and say all these women
came here for me. They didn't even like, No, that's
not true at all. We all know this, So let's
call it for what it is. Like the a lot
of people came here for their own personal benefit, and
(26:39):
but there were women that said, Okay, hey, yes I did,
I could, this could be a stepping stone, but I
could also fall for this guy. And so there were
genuine women that were here to say, hey, this is possible.
But what happened was is really what it was. At
the turning point was when I found out because I
had no idea. But when I found out Sarah was
lying to the other women and telling them things like, oh,
(27:00):
he said after our first one on one that I
was going to be um at the end of it
all with him, he was already constructing his his hometowns
after week one, and that he was crying with me. Uh,
you know, these are things. I was like, why are
you making this up? You're making seem like this extremely
strong connection and we we have a connection, but you're
you're these women now are all gonna leave? And like
(27:20):
they all came to me like we thought. I thought
about leaving at one point, so when I had to
have the women come tell me because I didn't see
that like Sarah played it well, then I thought, Okay,
if she's playing that game, who could still be playing
this game? Like she played it all the way until
right four hometowns. I almost took her to hometowns. Therefore,
I thought, is there anyone else that's still potentially playing me?
(27:41):
And yeah, at that point, I was freaked out. I
was very insecure because just because I I everything started
creep in that you're on a show, man like you
have to understand that people the show faces criticism for
people coming on here to become popular, to gain followers
and all that, and you came here with with the
mind the headspace if you want to fall for somebody,
(28:02):
you think it's possible. But now you're you're you're wondering
if these women feel the same way. And I told myself, no,
you have an incredible final four women, that's not the
case with them. And I didn't believe it until in
that moment when I talked to Susie. It was like
all of a sudden that thought crept back in. It
came racing in in that moment. Why to answer your question,
(28:23):
why couldn't I just let her go when she said that,
I mean, ultimately, I know that I walked her out
quote unquote, but I did let her go at that point.
I didn't handle it right. I my tone, I raised
my tone, I stopped listening, and it was immature and
I did not handle it correctly. But I did let
her go in that moment, and that was what I
(28:44):
said right as I opened the corridor. I said, I
believe everything happens for a reason. I don't know why
this was supposed to happen, but it did, and so
I'm going to move on, And so I did. I
did let her go. I just but I was fighting
because this again, I saw this person potentially being the
woman of my dreams, my future wife, and I was
(29:05):
not going to just say, okay, all right, that's how
you feel. Well, it was great knowing you, and I
wish you the best. I was going to fight for it,
and I fought for it with every last ounce of
fight in my body. It doesn't mean I did the
right way, but I fought all the way till the end.
M Well, you said that Susie. You don't feel like
Susie fought for you in that moment? How do you
(29:28):
feel about that? That line? Now? It was untrue. It
was untrue. I remember that I when she walked out,
I remember talking to the producers and I said she
was cold. I said, she showed no emotion whatsoever, And
how do you feel about that? Now? I was wrong
(29:50):
a thousand percent, but because I was so hurt and
upset that I even felt as though she gave no
emotion from start to finish. And I watch it back now,
and it's clear as day. The motion was there. She
was try like she was torn, but I couldn't see
that because I was just trying to do everything in
(30:12):
my power to, like see if I could convince her
to give me a second chance. And when I couldn't
do that, I just looked back at it all because
it all would have mean it was. It was probably
three hours of conversation. Of course, if they can only
pack in what they can but it was a three
hour conversation, and I just at that point, I'm like, man,
she like she seemed cold. But now I watched it back,
(30:35):
I'm like, no, she didn't seem cold at all. Man.
You literally had the wrong perspective. You couldn't even see
her perspective then, And yeah, there's a lot of things
that I look back now, I'm like, what were you thinking?
But I was thinking what I'm telling, what I've told
you all throughout this entire discussion. I was in that
headspace and it wasn't the right head space as I
look back at it now, But I was in that
in that moment. That's the that's the head space I
(30:56):
was in. Clayton, You obviously have a few more weeks left. Um.
You know you've you've explained UM the whole situation to us.
So as these next weeks go on, and as UM
people continue to watch UM your journey unfold, what what
(31:16):
would you want to say, UM, to anybody out there
who listens to this, who watches the show, who watched
last night, People that are really hurt by the conversation
that took place, People that are are now saying, you know,
we saw a side of Clayton we've never seen before,
um or up to this point. Is this who he is?
(31:38):
Is this the man that we've you know, has he
been hit hiding in his suit all season up into
this point? Just give you the floor to say whatever
it is you want to say. Um to anybody out
there for the you know, as they watch you the
next couple of weeks. I just asked people to have
patients and understanding that when I say I followed my
(32:00):
heart and I was doing everything that I thought was best,
that that is exactly what it was. Was it right? No,
people are seeing the mistakes I made. People are seeing
I see them. I accept full responsibility. I want people
to understand that everything that I'm saying in these podcasts
right now is I'm talking to you all is not
an excuse. I'm here because you guys brought me on
(32:23):
to talk about it. I'm giving explanations. That does not
mean I'm trying to dodge any bit of blame. I
take all of the blame, okay, And I want people
to understand that I'm not making any excuses. I'm just
providing explanations to let people understand here's what I thought
in that moment going forward. Again, I take all of it.
I'm fully accountable. I am not that person that was
(32:45):
shown then. I allowed my emotions to get the best
of me with everything going on, and hopefully people will
see in the coming weeks that following my heart makes sense.
But that's where again I have to wait until it's
until it's shown all the way through. People have already
shown that they're not going to have that patience. That's fine.
(33:06):
People have the right to decide to react as sooner
or they We can wait into and and I've had
a lot of great people reach out to me and say, hey,
I see you know, I see your frustration. People that
know me are still in my corner. They know that
there's so much more to it. People that don't know me,
they see what they see and they make a judgment.
I can't fault anybody for that, but I just tell
people to see it all the way through, all the
(33:29):
way through until the end of the finale, and then
cast your judgment. Clayton Um final question for you, what
have you learned since last night? Oh? Man, uh so much.
I learned that one of the greatest things that I
(33:50):
learned was the power of emotion when you allow that
to overcome rationale. I see for me personally, I saw
that I shut down and I jump to a lot
of conclusions that aren't realistic, that weren't the truth. And
(34:10):
so I've known this before, but I know now going forward, Ever,
if I ever get overwhelmed, ever, if I'm ever in
over if I'm ever in a situation where I'm ever
ever overwhelmed like that, ever again, to take a deep
breath and step aside, say I need to take five like,
just step away. I in that moment did not do that.
(34:31):
And I wish I would have just taken a breather
and walked outside and said give me twenty minutes like,
but I didn't. Um. I also learned again that you know,
my reality is one thing, and someone else's reality is another,
and and and reality perception is reality, however people perceive
(34:52):
it is, that's the reality of it. I think her
and I both. I think her and I both both
as far as our and and not in our actions,
but in our thoughts and feelings were justified. My actions
were indefensible when I when I started to raise my
voice and make and accuse her. But I think that again,
(35:12):
I saw that's like, this isn't black and white, as
you said earlier, this show this with the show, it's
not black and white. It's hard to date thirty women.
I'm dating thirty women, they're dating one man, and so
there's this major disconnect and you try to come into
the middle and find the common ground. And I didn't
and and unfortunately we That's where we came to a
(35:34):
head is when we I said, how do you not
understand this? Like, I'm dating thirty women, What's there's multiple relationships?
What's how is that hard to believe? And she was,
you know, saying, how can you fall from multiple people?
Like I'm only falling for you? And there's that disconnect.
So I I've learned a ton because I watched it
back now and I'm like, yeah, I'm like now I'm
on the outside of it, being like dude, like you
(35:55):
really fell in deep to this, and you fully believed,
and you you really wanted to just make it work,
and so you adapted, you did whatever you could, and
you and things were just like you said, things were
going great for me. They were going great, I'll up
until this point. Other than that, I mean, there was
drama with all that with Shane, that I wasn't really
involved heavily in that because I was building these other
(36:15):
connections while that was occurring. So I thought things were great.
I was like, everything's going great, every You're doing things
in the right way. And then it just came boom.
It hit me at once, and I realized, like, this
is because of your own actions what you did. This
is now you have to face the repercussions for the
situation that you that you're in. So all of that
(36:36):
just to say, yeah, I mean, I just hope people
can understand that I didn't have any bad intentions. I
wasn't I was not playing these women. I had genuine connections.
I was trying to compartmentalize one relationship to the next
and really give every one of these women of equal
chance until I could figure out who is the best
fit for me, and I just along the way and
(36:58):
made decisions that I wish I would have done differently.
Claim thanks for joining us today, man, Yes, thank you
for UM. We appreciate you being here, UM and expressing
all of the things that you've been feeling over the
past twenty four hours plus. Yeah, no matter what, this
is not ideal, right to sit down and have to
talk about it, um and then have millions of people
(37:20):
watch it. But UM, we do appreciate you sit down
and talking with us today and uh, um we wish
you the best. Um. We know it won't be easy,
We know uh that criticism is going to come. Um,
but we do wish you the best in the following
weeks as this season unfolds. So thanks for joining us
(37:43):
on the Almost Famous podcast. Thanks guys. Follow the Benn
and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast on ihurt Radio or
subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts.
Hosts And Creators
Ben Higgins
Ashley Iaconetti
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