Geoff Rickly from Thursday

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:19):
You're listening to one hundred words or less with Ray Harkins.
What is up? Everybody? Welcome to yet another episode of
this podcast in which we are talking about people who
care about independent music, punk, hardcore, indie rock, email, whatever
it is. But today is a very special episode for
a multitude of reasons, one of them being the fact

(00:39):
that this is the six hundredth episode, which, you know,
anytime you got a nice round number, it feels like
you're doing something. It feels like people are paying attention
to it. And I've gotten compliments recently on the fact
that it just people are like, very very kind in
saying that this is consistent, It's a ever present part

(01:01):
of their lives. I love to be that thing that
you can rely on week after week and be like,
you know what, I'm going to listen to this week's episode.
Maybe I'll just let a few of them stack up
and listen to it at a later date. Regardless, I
am glad you're here for it, and I am glad
to welcome today's guest. His name is none other than Jefferickley.
If you pay attention to independent music, you know Jeff

(01:23):
Erickley's name. But he's the vocalist for Thursday. And they're
celebrating a lot of things because they're a band again,
just doing really cool shows, really cool tours. But they
are focused on the world the time anniversary that I
think it's the gosh, twenty year anniversary, twenty one year anniversary.
I'm not exactly sure how it's a you know, being demarketed,

(01:44):
because you know, there are times where it's like, all right,
the world was not counting years when everybody was in
COVID lockdown, et cetera, et cetera. But anyways, Jeff is
also an author. He put out a book called Someone
Who Isn't Me? And I read that thing cover to cover.
Came out on Rose Books, an incredible independent publisher based

(02:06):
out of the New York City area. And Jeff is
someone I'd like to call a friend. I love to
hang out with him every time they're playing a show,
love to dip in, say what's up. And I just
really enjoy him as a human. Spent many times in
just small rooms with him, hanging out with him, playing
shows with him. And I had never had Jeff on

(02:27):
the show we had wrote across each other. I was like, yeah,
you know you definitely should do the podcast at some point,
and he's like, yeah, you should totally just hit me up,
and then I never did, and you know, some things
just linger. But anyways, we decided to make it official
and it was a great time. Ways that you can
get in touch with the show. You can, of course
follow along on all of this socials as it were,

(02:48):
but primarily Instagram because I don't really mess around with
any of the other social media platforms. You can also
email the show one hundred words podcast at gmail dot com.
And also if you listen to podcasts on YouTube, there's
a link in the show notes where you can follow
along on the interwebs as it were, with me publishing
these episodes, because I know people love to do that

(03:09):
like a work as you know, just an example. You know,
maybe you're hanging out with me for hours a day
at work and that's just totally fine. And if you
want to support the show for zero dollars, it takes
you maybe thirty seconds at most, go to the Apple
podcast page, leave a rating and review. I know every
single podcast in the world asking you to do that,
and I'm not special in that regard, so it just

(03:30):
helps out the algorithm. And discoverability. All of those things
help and then Spotify you could do the rating. You
don't have to leave a review there. So, like I said,
thirty seconds flat, boom in and out, and if like
literally ten percent of the audience of this show does that,
it helps out just gangbusters tremendously. So anyways, let's talk

(03:52):
about weekly recommendations. I've been doing this thing since the
beginning of twenty twenty four where every week I am
just dropping some new music that I It doesn't have
to be new, like new to me. It can be
a record that maybe got put out like, you know,
ten years ago or something like that. But usually I
try to stick within the you know, confines of the
past few years. But I'm thrilled to talk about This

(04:13):
band is called Wonderful World. This EP is called Universal Tension.
I frankly know nothing about this band besides the fact
I think they're from Belgium. They may be from somewhere
in this scan you know, another nation in the Scandinavian territories,
but they are It's really really weird hardcore, like it's angular,

(04:34):
but it's also pissed and it just like I really
can't describe other bands that it sounds like, but it
just it actually reminds me of something that like Locking
Out would have put out alongside of Planet Mental, except
there is also a lot of different things going on.
But anyways, this band Wonderful World, I am absolutely paying attention.

(04:58):
It just got delivered to me algari rhythmically like many
things do. And you know, like certain things just pop
up and are like, what is this? Why do I
not know about this? Why am I not following them
on social media? Why am I not? I just love
that buzz that you get when you find a new band,
So that's why I am doing these weekly recommendations. So
check out that band, Wonderful World. That the EP is

(05:20):
called Universal Tension. They have another EP or demo that
came out before this, So yeah, great band. Where do
you go? Where do you go? Guys from wherever you're from?
I should probably have done that research, but you know,
sometimes I just I do at one point and then
in this case, my brain because nine million other things
crowded out. So anyways, let's talk to mister Jeff Rickley.

(05:40):
And like I said, we're marking to the anniversary to
events as it were, the anniversary of the world of
Time record, which you know, pound for pound could be
the best Thursday record. Some people argue that I'm personally
still maybe siding on the you know, full collapse. But
there's you know, there's on all the Thursday records, let's

(06:01):
be honest. So that is an anniversary. And then also Jeff,
like I said, is a published author. Go check out
his book, Someone Who Isn't Me came out of Rose Books.
Love it and we talk about all the things. So
here is Jeff.

Speaker 2 (06:14):
In the basements, still in there.

Speaker 1 (06:32):
The early two thousands, as it were. Where are our
paths crossed at the beautiful Long Island Club Backstreet Blues
if I'm not mistaken? And I know and I and
I know that you felt like this as well. Where
it's like when you're you know, doing those early tours
and you happen to be playing with a band that

(06:53):
you actually like and you're you know, you kind of
like circle that date on the calendar or whatever.

Speaker 3 (06:58):
Yeah exactly.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
And I remember obviously we got connected via our our
friend Tom who used to live with from the Assistant
and every other band ever of the Sun. Yeah exactly exactly.
And I remember being so impressed, not only with I mean,
I was already a fan of Thursday, but that you like,

(07:22):
actually enjoyed my band, but like it wasn't but it
was just and I know, you know the feeling of
like when a person actually expresses they're like no, like
I'm not just saying that just to say that, like
legitimately like your band, right, And And the reason I
bring that up is because you even though obviously we're
both old and we've been around the scene for a

(07:45):
long time, you still strike me with that earnestness where
it's like, yes, maybe you're not, you know, espousing your
love for bands you know, every day on the Internet
or whatever, but you're still engaged and clearly you still
care about it. And I really this is a big
question to start off, but yeah, how do you how
do you keep that like I guess, you know, I

(08:07):
don't want to say intensity, but like, how do you
keep that fanness inside of you where you're just like, yeah,
I'm still genuinely a fan of stuff, as opposed to
you know many that just get jaded and are like, oh, yeah,
I'm only gonna listen to or care about the things
that I cared about when I was younger, or whatever.

Speaker 3 (08:23):
Yeah, it's a really good question. Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 4 (08:27):
I don't know that I.

Speaker 3 (08:27):
Always do it well. I still love music so much,
and I am very much of the belief that like
nobody ever gets it right or wrong. Really, there's just
a lot of different ways to do it and a
lot of different beautiful elements of like the human experience
that you can bring out in music, and so I'm

(08:50):
always trying to see, like what else the possibilities are,
you know, And I think I think every generation kind
of comes up with its own visionaries and and you know,
it's a new life and a new world that's so
different than the world that I grew up in, so
I expect to see new reactions to that. And I
just think, you know, there's just always great stuff out there.

(09:12):
And I also try not to force myself to be
into any era or you know, if somebody' is like, oh,
you got to check out this band, this will be
the band that does it for you, and I hear
them and I don't really love it, I won't like
beat myself up with it. I'll just be like, Okay, yeah,
for whatever reason doesn't really speak to me. I'm sure
it's really good, you know what I mean. Like people
will tell me, oh, this is the band, and I'll

(09:33):
just be like okay, but you know, every one out
of ten recommendations, I'll find something that I really love.
And you know, last year we got to bring out
gel and they were like a major like I love
this band, you know, and they're doing something like I
couldn't even put my finger on what was different about them.
It's just there was something about it. And when we
were on tour, I was like, Oh, I think it's

(09:54):
that they really are like younger kids and they're like
super into like power, violence and all this cool stuff
I grew up on. But they're also like really into
like listening to dance music sped up to one point
five speed on YouTube and like going crazy in the
parking lots before show. So you know what I mean.
It's just like such a different it's like totally different lens,
you know what I mean, where that's normal and totally

(10:16):
compatible with like having like Charles Bronson in your van
or whatever, you know what I mean. Like it just
and so I love that. I love that. That's like,
you know, it's there's a lot of overlap, but the
places where we don't overlap. That's where all this new
stuff comes in that I can learn from them and
see how awesome, like, you know, because even just I
got to play a song with them, I played guitar

(10:37):
on a song like every night on that tour, or
at least a couple of nights on that tour, and
they were so fast, like it's so much faster, Like
when I played it live with them, I was like,
this is so much faster than the record, which was
already fast. And I was like, Okay, I get it.
They're listening to stuff at like one point five speed,
like they love fast music, you know what I mean.

(10:59):
So I just I just try and stay open, but
also not like I don't make it part of my job,
like I'm not like constant, like I got to keep
up with what the kids are into, you know what
I mean. I think that would make me really jaded,
or I would just not like stuff and I'd kind
of retreat back to my bubble or something. You know.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
Yeah, no, I hear. I understand exactly what you're talking
about where it's like you because there's clearly no blueprint
for aging gracefully within the context of punk or hardcore,
Like it's just like and but you can recognize the
fact that it's like, Okay, this behavior or music style whatever,

(11:34):
it may not be for me, but that is what
can excite you because to your point, it's something that
is new and you haven't seen before, and that's what
can kind of get you, you know, thinking about either
your own music or your own art in a different way,
and that is exciting to engage with.

Speaker 3 (11:50):
Yeah, And you know, for me, the closest to a
blueprint for me of how to age gracefully would be Wybe.
It would be Walter from Quicksand you know, he's not
that much older than me, but he's you know, we're
we're almost exactly ten years apart. Or our birthday is
the same weekend, so you know, I've gotten to celebrate
with him before on tour, our birthdays. But even just

(12:12):
that little bit of like you know, that decade extra
that he has on me, I just get to watch
how he navigates just a little ahead of the road,
you know, and I just find he does it with
such grace, you know, and when he'll turn me on
to new stuff, you know, of younger kids even than
I know about and if I turn him onto something
and he doesn't like it, He'll like kind of ask

(12:34):
me what I like about it, so he can look
at it through that lens, you know. And I really
I just really appreciate that about Walter, you know what
I mean, Like he's really like somebody I feel like
I can look up to and he's not trying too hard,
but he's not also ignoring the kids, and he's just
kind of yeah, he just kind of like is so himself.
And I'm like, Okay, that's that's what I want to
I just want to be so myself. There's nothing else

(12:54):
that I can be.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
Right right, And it's true, like when you, I guess
put that energy out as metaphysical as that sounds, you know,
a lot of stuff just ends up finding you because
you're active, You're you know, playing shows here and there.
You're just you know, mixing it up, and you're not
you know, so far removed where the things aren't going

(13:17):
to run across because I mean, for you, it's like
exciting when bands are submitting to go on tour with Thursday,
like you legitimately can listen to them and be like, oh,
I never heard this band, like this show. Oh Wow, Okay,
I see what they got going on.

Speaker 3 (13:29):
Yeah, yeah, totally.

Speaker 1 (13:31):
Yeah, it's unreal, yeah for sure. Kind of you know,
glossing over a lot of the biographical stuff just based
on the fact that you know, you've clearly painted that picture.
But there are certain aspects where it's like, I didn't
even know you were born in Providence until I was
obviously doing my you know, beautiful research all of you online,
and and then you moved. What age did you actually

(13:54):
moved to Jersey? Was that when you went to college
or were you always you.

Speaker 3 (13:57):
Know, I went, I went to high school and like
a good amount of grade school and New Jersey.

Speaker 1 (14:06):
Okay, got it? And what prompted the move between Providence
in Jersey.

Speaker 3 (14:13):
So my parents met at like the first co ed
dorm in the country in Providence at Brown. They both
were full scholarship like at Brown, both from backgrounds where
they couldn't have paid for school if they didn't have
a full scholarship. And then when they finished grad school,
my dad was a chemist. My dad was a chemist,

(14:36):
and he was you know New Jersey, which you know,
if you've ever driven on some of our major highways
through Newark and stuff like that, it's a huge chemical
industry in New Jersey, so that was we came down
here so my dad could work in in in that
in industrial chemical stuff, right right.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
Exactly, which I mean clearly you've obviously he followed in
his footsteps.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (15:02):
I mean, it's it's funny because my mom on the
other side, was like an eighteenth century literature major and
named me after Jeffrey Chaucer and stuff, you know, like totally,
and I just like was fully on my mom, Like
I was like, I'll go that way, I'll check out
like the humanities or whatever they used to call it,
you know, right. But I've always loved my dad's like

(15:23):
passion for science. You know, his hobbies are like particle physics,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (15:31):
Right exactly. It's like ultimately, I mean, I think the
thing that you once you have perspective on your parents
actually being real human beings, the thing that is exciting
when you recognize what excited them, Like they weren't just
doing the like some parents are obviously doing the job
to you know, do the job because that's like what
they've trained to be or whatever. But when you see

(15:51):
them get excited about it's like, oh no, like you
actually care about chemistry, Like that's that's pretty cool.

Speaker 3 (15:57):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I don't I don't know. The
videos of them went into like I don't know, theydeo
there and went into like where their passion in that
subject is. You know, it's like it kind of adapted
to what job they got. And you know, I definitely
saw frustration many years and and in in my lifetime
in New Jersey, we watched the chemical industry like move again,

(16:18):
and my dad was like, I'm going to stay put
and totally train to do something else from the bottom.
So yeah, it's you know, I definitely was disillusioned with
the like, you know, the job, the jobby job, you know,
like train really well, get to the highest in your
field and then and then have no job anyway. You know,

(16:40):
it's kind of like that does that doesn't make a
lot of sense to me?

Speaker 1 (16:45):
Right? Is this the is this what they call the
rat race.

Speaker 4 (16:49):
For the birds?

Speaker 1 (16:51):
Yeah? Exactly. And are you an only child? I actually
don't know that fact about you either.

Speaker 3 (16:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (16:58):
Okay, that's that's probably why I like you so much
when we met.

Speaker 4 (17:01):
Yeah, it was starting as a child, you know.

Speaker 1 (17:06):
Debating attention from everybody around you, And I'm gonna presume
that like as you were, you know, like junior high,
high school and stuff like that, and considering that you
said you gravitated towards what your mom was maybe interested in.
Were you like a pretty bookish kid as far as
like you know, love, love of reading early and that
sort of stuff.

Speaker 3 (17:26):
Yeah, yeah, I was, but more some music, you know,
like that as soon as I like latched onto music,
that was kind of it. I just it's all I
thought about, It's all I did. It was just like
probably like I would say, like a pretty unhealthy it's
sometimes pretty unhealthy obsession. But you know, when I was

(17:47):
a kid, you could still go to like you know,
Fugazi shows were five dollars, but regular shows were like
eight fifty, you know what I mean. It wasn't like
Fugazi was five dollars and like everybody else was twenty five,
you know. So I went to shows a lot, and
I could get a bus into the city for I
think it was a dollar twenty five when I was
in high school. So it was just like I just

(18:09):
spent all my time going to shows and buying records.
And I had a girlfriend in high school used to
steal records. You know, I wasn't really right. I was
too square for that. And I was like, man, I
don't know, not not records, like you want the bands
to get paid. But yeah, no, it was all I
did was music, music, music, and even like looking at

(18:32):
like writing and stuff, I just thought like lyricists were
better writers, you know, than most of the writers that
I liked. I liked, you know, I liked some super
pretentious stuff as a kid too, but but I was
more passionate about lyricists and the way they wrote.

Speaker 1 (18:49):
Right right, and the intro to independent music like that.
Because you know, either you or I had the luxury
of leaning on an older brother or sister. Was it
introduced to you via, you know, just friends, or were
you just like randomly poking around skate videos and stuff
like that.

Speaker 3 (19:08):
One of my friends growing up had an older sister
that I had a huge crush on, and she was like, oh,
you like nine inch Nails And I was like, yeah,
I had heard nine inch Nails, like randomly, I was
walking and I heard across the street a boombox playing
like the first nine inch Nails record, and it was

(19:28):
playing the song down in it, and I had really
liked like in my high school, like where I grew up,
there's this place called the Rink in Bergenfield, which is
like where like Naughty by Nature and Queen Latifa and
like all these like young hip hop groups would play
in New Jersey and so like when I was a kid,
I really loved a tribe called Quest and Nas and

(19:49):
stuff like that. Like I was really into hip hop
and like, like you know, from the time I was
like seven or eight, like I really would like make
my dad get me cassette singles of all the big
hip hop songs, you know. But when I heard down
in it blasting across the street in this boom box,
I like across the street, and I was like, what
is you know, I just like these strangers, I was like,
what is I need to know what it is is,

(20:11):
you know, And they're like, oh yeah, like they didn't
even I remember the girl that told me she didn't
stop dancing. She was like, it's nine inch nails, Like
she was dancing like outside. It was so sick, you
know what I mean, Like er is amazing. And I
was like, Okay, I'm going to go get the Nie
Nails tape. So I went and got that and got
really into it. And then the friend's older sister who
I had a crush, and I was like, you like

(20:31):
nine inch nails, like you know what I mean, Like,
are you like kind of cool? Like holy holy crap,
I can't believe it. So she made me like a
mix with all kinds of stuff like that on it,
you know, the Cure and all kinds all kinds of stuff,
you know, Morrissey and right, I just got.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
Here's all sad sack music.

Speaker 3 (20:49):
Yeah, here's all the sad sack music that they used
to call at the time I did. They called it
like college rock or something, you know, all that kind
of stuff too. Ri Em and U and I just
like sort of dope, dove in deep and then a
few like like I think there was like the movie
for like Pump Up the Volume came out maybe like
a year or two later, and that's like where I

(21:09):
heard Peter Murphy the first time. You know, there's just
like it was sort of like it unfolded like that
because it wasn't you know, it wasn't like the era
of the Internet where you could find out as easily
about stuff. He kind of had to go from one
band to the next band and be like okay, like
NINAE Nell's like, well, he's also in this band called
pig Face, and then you go get pig Face and
it's like if you heard Ministry and then you get Ministry,
you know what I mean. And that was kind of
like it. And around then I got my mom into

(21:34):
a band that she thought was stupid. She thought You
Two was really stupid and like she was sick of
hearing them on her commute to work on the radio.
But I made her take me to see them when
I was like I think ten, and the performance like
moved her to tears, and she became like like an
obsessive Nige Nolle. I mean, n I a YouTube fan,

(21:56):
and we started going to see concerts all the time,
and then I would ask to see like the opening
bands like play their own shows. And then she started
like letting me go to other shows, and you know,
at first they took me to all the shows that
I went to, but then it was kind of like, nah,
it's a show, you'll be safe, You'll be fine. Like
it was also you know, the very early nineties, and
people were like, yeah, I got work, kid, you can go.
You can go to the city and go see a

(22:17):
show read high school. You know, it's a school night whatever.
So yeah, and there used to be this show too
called one hundred and twenty Minutes that that's like the
first time I heard Curve, the first time I heard
the Smash and Pumpkins when they put out Gish, you know,
it was just like all these bands felt like such
like great best kept secrets, you know.

Speaker 1 (22:39):
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one hundred words or less. Well, I love that idea
because I was actually gonna ask, like, once you started to,

(24:07):
you know, bring left of center stuff home to your parents,
they probably were like okay, I mean they were permissive
enough to, like you said, let you go to shows
and experience it, but did they think of the stuff
that you were getting into, especially once you started to
you know, it's like, oh, you know, straight edge vegetarianism,
and like all these things were they were they weirded

(24:27):
out buy it or they were like, I guess this
is what Jef's into.

Speaker 3 (24:31):
Yeah, I mean the first the first subculture that I
ever got like super deep into is industrial music. And
I think after that, like a year after that getting
into like hardcore. It was kind of like, yeah, that's
it's nice that you want to be like a little
more like clean cut and not like going to the
limelight and getting your you know, get getting like held

(24:53):
overnight in at the tombs, you know what I mean,
for doing some stupid thing or getting caught whole like
And I was so innocent as a kid that like
I literally would hold other people's drugs and not take
them and stuff when I was really young, you know,
so I kind of like was getting in trouble for
stuff that I wasn't actually doing when I was really young.
And then by the time hardworking around there, like wait,

(25:14):
you want to go to an old ages show at
a youth center with a bunch of straight edge kids,
Like yeah, that's great, go for it.

Speaker 1 (25:20):
You know what I mean, Yeah, you're safe there.

Speaker 3 (25:23):
Yeah, they'd be like if you see them a little
angry though, like when I still when I cut all
my hair off and started lifting weights, they were like,
you do seem a little angry. That didn't last very long, though,
so I was.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
I was gonna say, I cannot even wrap my head
around you going through a face which where you're like, dude,
I'm gonna get I'm gonna get swollen. Bro.

Speaker 3 (25:44):
Yeah, no, I mean it, it is really weird. It
was like senior year, I had like a whole bunch
of weird stuff happen, and a lot of it isn't
like a lot of what full collapse is about something
that happened, like an era that happened in high school
where like had a friend die and then like had
horrible stuff happened otherwise. And I just got really really angry,

(26:04):
and I stopped like looking people in the eye, and
I started like blasting one O eight and snapcase and
like just just I just wanted to be like completely
self sufficient and not need anybody, you know what I
mean that whole thing. And yeah, and I made a
lot of friends in college because of it, because I was, like,
you know, like immediately since I got there, like all

(26:24):
the hardcore kids kind of banned it together and then
and then like you know, I kind of came back
to myself and that's when I got into more of
like what they would call emo. At the time. I
was like, this is hardcore too, like you know what
I mean, Like Texas is the Reason is still a
hardcore like you and I are still a hardcore like
you know all the stuff that, Like they were like,
you're fucking emo now. I was like, it's not like

(26:46):
an emo. Don't call it that. It's like the worst name.
Don't call it that.

Speaker 1 (26:51):
Totally totally, this is this is betraying what I defined
is hardcore.

Speaker 3 (26:54):
Come on, guys, Yeah, yeah, like rain or Maria's hardcore
because they played our basement, so they're still you know
what I mean.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
Absolutely they they they undoubtedly played with Spas at one
point ABC no rho, Okay, calm down, no doubt what
So hitting that college experience, I know, that's obviously when
you know you really were throwing shows in your basement,
et cetera, et cetera. Once you started down that path,

(27:22):
and clearly, like school started to drift away in regards
to priorities, like was there a proverbial life path as
it were, where it's like, you know, were you going
to go into teaching, because that's kind of what you're
you know, we're gravitating towards and studying or what was
the the plan.

Speaker 4 (27:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:40):
I had a really weird experience in college, which was
that during the orientation weekend, they still used to do
this like placement testing, you know, where you go take
a standardized, standardized test and they'd like tell you what
classes you were allowed to take yep, And like I
swear it was like not that long before, like I

(28:01):
I had just tried LSD for the first time, and
I ended up taking it that weekend, not thinking that
my test was right then, and then getting like, no,
it's right now actually, and I was like, oh no,
I'm like fully tripping, like hallucinating, and I have to
take this test. So I went into this like placement test,

(28:22):
and it was literally like I could see it was
almost like the answers on the test were filled in already,
Like I didn't even have to read the questions. I
could just see what box was supposed to be, and
so I filled them all out and I and I
placed so high that I literally didn't have to take
any required classes. I was allowed to take all electives
for my entire four years.

Speaker 4 (28:42):
Like I got into like this honors program.

Speaker 3 (28:44):
It was so wild, and so I just took like
all these like poetry, dance in the Body, and the
literature of the other with it, like Edward said, class
on orient you know his book Orientalism and all these
all these you know, courses that I was interested in
and the and I realized after like two years of that, like, oh,

(29:04):
I just need to be a teacher, and I'll take
a few teaching courses and then you know, it was
a five year teaching program with Teach for America that
I was doing. So that was kind of like that's
where I was at. But like the most of my
curriculum was like just just totally stuff that I was
interested in. You know, oh, Russian literature, okay, you know
what I mean, Like no science, right, no history, no accounting,

(29:24):
no math, Like I was like, nah, not doing it.
If I can pick, I'm not doing anything like that,
you know, all the useful.

Speaker 1 (29:30):
Stuff totally talk about like the most loaded gun you
could give a kid going into college, just like hey,
what what's gonna shoot yourself in the foot for the
next while? How about this just take whatever you want, Jeff.

Speaker 3 (29:44):
Yeah, yeah, but I think it would have been good
if I had been like if I because I got
really close we got before we started touring. I just
had one semester left, and I had to really like
I had like a three point nine or something, you
know what I mean. I wasn't like slacking.

Speaker 1 (29:59):
Off, but right you were putting the effort.

Speaker 3 (30:02):
Yeah, we all decided like, this is something we should do.
We should take this year and tour and see what happens.
And it was literally right at the end of that year,
like right at the end of the year that we
took off, that it just like blew up out of nowhere.
You know. We were all kind of like already making
plans to do other things.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
Of course. Well yeah, you have that especially. I mean,
I know every band goes through that discussion where it's like,
all right, let's take a year, let's take six months,
you put some you know, arbitrary time on it, and
then and then irregardless of what every what anybody has
going on in their life, it's like, all right, whatever,
we'll just drop everything. Oh damn, all right, well we

(30:39):
were close, but whatever, it's fine.

Speaker 3 (30:42):
Yeah, it was like it was one of those decisions
too that was kind of like, well, we signed a
victory and it was like, well, you know, like they're
a label to put out Dead Guy and stuff, like
we should all take off school. And then as soon
as we take off school and start touring and we
find out like they don't even like us, and that
like they fired the person that signed us, you know
what I mean. It was like, oh, okay, I mean,
this is the wrong time to quit.

Speaker 1 (31:04):
So totally you're like, listen, we can't tour with High
Find the Road Burners. I'm sorry, we just can't do that.
I wanted to hit on specifically War all the time
because obviously that's you know, what you are celebrating this
year and touring around it and everything, and that you know,
I had, I mean, I was lucky enough to obviously

(31:26):
not only see you many times during that that juncture,
but then also have a front row seat with you know,
our friends and Thrice and knowing those guys really well,
and then knowing you guys decently well and watching both
of your bands, you know, ascend on this weirdo major
label trajectory where obviously everybody was the next Nirvana and
during that time I realized this may be a you know,

(31:47):
difficult question to articulate, But who did you feel like
you could I guess rely on during that time? Was it,
you know, were you leaning on obviously your bandmates? Was
I mean the kind of you know, typical family and friends,
Like did you feel like you we had to kind
of like close up the circle or did you feel
like you could expand it?

Speaker 3 (32:05):
Yeah? No, we were keeping it pretty insular then because
it had all happened so quickly, and it was so surprising,
and you know, all these people who didn't have our
back suddenly were our best friends, you know what I mean.
Where it was like, I don't really feel like I can
trust a lot of people because now suddenly Victory says
that they had our back from the beginning, and I
know they didn't. You know, I know they didn't, right,

(32:27):
So it was like band we leaned on each other,
We leaned on Alex at Eyeball Records. We leaned on
our booking agent, Timbore, who you know, it's like the
one person we've stayed with through our entire career and
now it's kind of it, you know, we circled the wagons.
We really when Island signed us and we went to Island,

(32:49):
we had a really good team there at first. You know,
they all ended up leaving like a few months into
or all the time coming out, and that was like
a huge blow because we had like let ourselves trust
them and they had really treated us well and done
some great things for us. So it felt really strange
to have them all kind of disappear.

Speaker 1 (33:10):
Right, Yeah, I mean it is that interesting, you know,
security blanket, when all of a sudden you start to
understand what a person who loves music that like works
at a record label, how that could be taken away
from them, because it's like, oh, they just left that
job to go do another job. But like you're with us, right,
What's what's the deal?

Speaker 3 (33:28):
Right? But also like yeah, you start to understand it's
kind of like one of those things that sometimes that's
the way the wind blows where it's like the key,
the key guy at the top that everybody knows. If
he leaves, then they want to stay on their team,
you know, and they'll have to leave the artists. But
they're like this is like we all know each other,
we all work together every day. We want to stay together.
It's like I can understand that, you know what I mean.

(33:50):
Like it it was just really unfortunate timing for us
because it wasn't even at like the end of one cycle.
It was like right in the middle of when we
needed people like working on the record, and it was
like totally our moment. It was our top ten billboard
you know, record and and just like just sort of
fell off a cliff. You know. We went from some

(34:11):
like twenty thousand records a week two, like not knowing
if it was in stores anymore, you know what I mean.
It was like that drastic where we're like, what what happened?

Speaker 1 (34:21):
Right? Like someone needs to make a phone call to someone,
but I think this is there's something happening here.

Speaker 3 (34:27):
And I remember like people being like I'm going down
there to talk to somebody since they won't pick up
the phone, and getting there and being like there's nobody here,
Like there's nobody here, there's no one in the office,
like nobody Like okay, right then we were well and
Julie's creed, I guess.

Speaker 1 (34:44):
Yeah, then this seems like a real sinking ship, as
it were. The and I know during that time as well,
like that's you know, you did have a little bit
of understanding obviously of how you know, business implications worked
and you know, contracts and all that sort of stuff.
Yeah you, I mean you personally, Like did you try

(35:07):
to stay as close to possible as on that stuff
or was it like as the you know, large of
the band grew, you kind of wanted to remove yourself
a little bit from that or what was your I
guess approach? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (35:21):
I stayed very connected, Like eyeball, I was the point guy,
you know, Victory. I still was kind of like one
of two point guys Islands, Like I was always in
the building, like you know what I mean, everybody there.
We got along great after Islands, Like after that whole
thing fell apart, I was very like disenchanted with the

(35:42):
whole thing. Was kind of like you somebody else can
deal with this, Like I'm I don't want to do this.
I don't talk the way right, Like these people don't
care about us, you know what I mean, Like they
don't care. Like it's cool, like we're part of their
job and they're going to do a good job if
they can, but like they don't care.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
Yeah, for sure. It's like it's the you know once
been twice shy thing where it's like, oh yeah, like
maybe this is good for my mental health to not
be as like you know, in the in the boardrooms
as it were.

Speaker 3 (36:12):
Right totally. And and the irony of course is that
like after we left Ireland, we did a couple of
records on Epitaph, and the product manager there that we
worked with that I was like very hands off with
was Matt McGreevy. Matt McGreevy lives across the street from
me now and he's like my buddy, you know what
I mean. So it's like not at the time when
we were working, like I was friendly with him, but
I wasn't like involved. And now like we go to

(36:34):
shows and stuff all the time, and it's very it's
very funny that he was like the one I decided
to check out on you know what I mean. It's
like iron right.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
Yeah, and that I mean talk about a person who
obviously is in the industry, but it's not a you know,
a suit.

Speaker 3 (36:49):
So really cares. Yeah, it's very.

Speaker 1 (36:52):
Fun right, you actually talk to them about music and
they'll give you their honest opinion. It's like, wow, this
is this is not like how it's how it's supposed
to be. I realize I'm kind of putting you on
the spot on this, but I'm sure like when you
reflect and think about that particular era, I know you
were most likely put into weird radio shows and tours

(37:13):
and like press opportunities. Are there are there things that
stick out in your mind as far as being very
emblematic of that experience where it's like, oh yes, like
just as a random aside where it's like I remember,
you know, talking to my friends in Seosen and they
were talking about how they had to go into like
a children's hospital to play an acoustics. It was one
of those things where it's like, who's ideal with this?

(37:34):
And it was like that's awful. But anyways, like any
it doesn't have to be as extreme as that, but
like what, you know, what experiences were kind of emblematic
of that era for you?

Speaker 3 (37:44):
Yeah, I remember we were on this show in Chicago.
I don't know if it still exists, but it was
a big deal at the time, a radio show called
Man Cow.

Speaker 1 (37:55):
Oh totally yeah, Yeah, I remember that show.

Speaker 3 (37:58):
Yeah, and it was lie it was a live broadcast
thing and like you had to get up at six
to go down there. So it's like, you know, get
the singer up at six. He's like the one guy
that needs to rest or else he loses his voice.
So they get me up there, and like they had
me on and immediately I was like I fucking hate
these people. Like immediately I just was like this like

(38:22):
like two bit bad comedians, like trying to be offensive,
like mocking somebody with cancer like I I don't remember
like exactly how it came up, but it just like
immediately I was like no, I'm like nope, not cool. Whatever.
Don't get like I was like, I know this is
supposed to be good for us, but like I don't
like this is a good time to plant my flag.

(38:42):
And they're gonna be like I just don't like you,
and I don't like anything you stand for, Like I
don't care if you're funny and popular, like I'd rather
have no fans, like you know what I mean. I
was basically like drop dead on the like live on
the radio, and they just kind of pulled me and
we're like dude, what the hell? And I was like, Yo,
what do you want? Man? I'm like this, you put
me here like you put me here like you don't

(39:03):
know me obviously, right.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
You're like this, this, this could not have gone more
poorly because this should have been vetted in some capacity,
and yeah, you just saw this as a press opportunity.

Speaker 3 (39:16):
Yeah, Like I didn't know what it was, and I
just was you know, people would put schedules in front
of me and every soft and something like that would happen,
and I just be like, I just know, I'm like
disgusted by your your bullshit US mainstream culture politics. Like
I was like, you know, I was just like it's
so like, you know, you get like you can get
wound up to a certain amount, like the I'll play

(39:38):
I'll play along. You know, it's good for the band,
and some more people hear about it, and you know,
I'll buy my tongue when somebody says something that I
think is like incredibly wrong, you know, and then at
some point it's just like Nope, not anymore. I don't care.

Speaker 1 (39:55):
It's like the h you know, it's like the the
Film Network where it's just like, you know, I'm mad
as hell. I'm mad as hell, and I can't take
it anymore.

Speaker 3 (40:03):
I saw something recently where they were trying to do
like a network thing. And I was like, oh, this
is like their bad version of network. I kept on saying.
I was like, this is like some whack version of network.

Speaker 1 (40:15):
Totally, it's like, you know, manufactured like to a t
where it's like this person feels like this is their
moment in the sun. But yes, yeah, they're getting really
mad about something that you shouldn't be mad about. It's
like this, but they changed the monster energy flavor. What
that's really what you're gonna stand on? Okay, I guess.

Speaker 4 (40:34):
They took they took alcohol out of White Claw totally.

Speaker 1 (40:38):
Wait, they dropped ato point ten of a percent. I
can't even believe it. What's the world coming to? And
I know you've you've been public about obviously, you know,
every substance abuse, you know, issue that you've had in
every iteration of your life. I chuckle at it, like
I should be laughing at your problems. But right exactly,

(41:00):
you either laugh or you cry, and I think we
should laugh right here. The notion that you were obviously
you know, starting to navigate the idea of you being
such a public person, and that also the idea of
like everything that you were doing behind the scenes to
you know, put one foot in front of the other.
Was it the the the notion of that idea of

(41:23):
being in front of everybody and not trying? And I
know that you in your head were like, I'm just
being like the most typical walking cliche of a person,
Like how are you, I guess having those conversations internally
or were you even having those You're just like, well,
I need this substance in order to, you know, be
able to navigate the world.

Speaker 3 (41:42):
Yeah, I don't know, Like when I was a kid,
and all that stuff happens like that full collapses about
like the doctor's responses like put them on five milligrams
of valium, give him this, give him that, you know,
give and then here's some narcotic painkillers for like you know,
the broken bones or whatever. And I just you know,
and then I would go to another country where like

(42:04):
a low dose opia would be available over the counter,
and it just like got so normalized to me that
I honestly like it just I don't know. It was
almost like somebody telling you not to curse at the
dinner table. It's just like sure, sure nobody's using drugs,
Like everybody I meet using some kind of drug they're
drinking or they're like, you know, I mean this there's

(42:25):
something going down, like like, yeah, it's just medicine. You know,
it's just medicine. Like it's kind of like something that
I thought about like a lot, and you know, it's
like to me, it was like, you know, if I
went out with the guys and and got drunk and
did some like cocaine or something and got annoying for like,
you know, three hours, then I was like, that's drugs,
and that's like it's so stupid, like I'll do it,

(42:47):
but it's so dumb and it's annoying, and nobody likes
you when you do drugs, you know what I mean.
I just kind of thought like it's not really a problem.
I don't really like like drugs. It's just sort of
a thing that every so often I'll do. And then
for some reason on the other side, like the like
the benzos and the you know, the opiates and stuff,
it just felt more like, well, this just manages like

(43:08):
the problem of me. You know, this is just like
this is just the reality is that like I can't
cope without medicine, and everybody takes medicine, so I'm okay.
And that was kind of like I think that's how
that became such a just was so normal, and it
just like was able to spin out of control because
like I really didn't have my eye on the ball,
you know, I was. I was just like, well, I'm

(43:28):
not an addict, Like I'm the one who like doesn't
need to drink every night. I'm the one who doesn't
need go caine, like you know what I mean. You
just start to think if I compare my problem to
other people's problems, like I'm like the least of everybody's worries,
you know what I mean. Once you start saying stuff
like that, it's like really easy to lose track of
where you actually are.

Speaker 1 (43:46):
Yeah. No, it's really especially to your point. Once you're
searching out for those stories and you see other people's
behaviors and like, yeah, you're you're totally it's so easy
to step into that justification of like oh, yeah, dude,
I am not doing three bumps a night, I'm doing zero.
I'm golden.

Speaker 3 (44:05):
Yeah, I do my taxes by hand, Like I don't
think that this could be a drug problem if like
I take my pills in the morning, have a cup
of coffee and like do the paperwork anything, I'm probably okay,
you know, and again it's.

Speaker 1 (44:16):
Like absolutely, it's like a I am purely functioning with
this stuff and it helps me function, so therefore I
of course don't have a problem. Yeh yeah by transitive property.

Speaker 3 (44:28):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (44:30):
Evilgreed dot net is the place you need to point
your web browser to look at all of these amazing
stores from record labels and bands that I'll fit a
certain type of genre, which is what I like to
call artistic heavy stuff. So if you're listening to this show,
I can guarantee you, like I can literally pay you
money to be like here, I'll give you a dollar

(44:50):
go onto the site and you will find at least
ten bands that you're into or record labels that you're into.
They ship from Berlin, Germany. But do not let that
scare you off, because shipping rates are very advantageous for
us here in the United States. Right now, go to
evilgreed dot net and just like, here's a small listing
of some of the record labels they work with. We're
talking about Days, Death, Wish, Hits, Flat Spot, We're talking

(45:13):
about Metal Blade, Maggot, Stomp, Revelation, Run for Cover. So
you kind of get the vibe that they're going for.
And they also work specifically with bands like you know,
Botch and Deaf Heaven and Blood Incantation. It's such a
great place for all of the things that are heavy
and you most likely are super super into, and then
you can buy them all at one place and it

(45:35):
ships it to you and boom you win. It's great.
So go to evilgreed dot Net. Just pop into the
search bar, be able to type in some band names
or record label names, and then boom you're off and
running and all of a sudden you got like three
hundred dollars worth of stuff you got to like pick
through and be like, Okay, I'm gonna ask for this
for my birthday. Here's some Christmas stuff, you know, really
fun things, because that's the way that I like to

(45:56):
buy stuff. So maybe I'm just giving you advice that
you need on how to buy merchandise. Jeez, ridiculous, But
evilgreed dot Net is the place to go and shop
away something that always has struck me about you, you know,
just like knowing you and observing you where it doesn't
seem to me and you can correct me if I'm wrong.
But like that there is this you know, vision board

(46:18):
manifestation and you know what I mean by that, where
it's like there are people that definitely exist on this
planet that have that like, all right, this is what
I'm gonna achieve by you know, thirty thirty five, or
this is what I'm achieving this year, year and a half.
You you don't strike me as that sort of person
and you let things happen to you, either good or worse.
Do you, like, do you identify with that description or

(46:41):
do you feel like you land somewhere on that spectrum
between those two that I'm talking about.

Speaker 3 (46:46):
Yeah, I mean, it's it's an interesting thing. I'm not
career driven, but I am incredibly driven as an artist.
I once I see I sort of will have a
vision in my head of what a work could be,
and then I'm like, nothing can stop me until I'm done,

(47:07):
you know, Like it's it's like, I don't know, it's
just a total commitment to finishing what I start. And
I think, you know, I've run record labels and I've
done all kinds of other stuff where I've been a
mentor and the main thing that separates me from some
of my much more talented friends, is that I just

(47:32):
always finish. Basically, I always take things to completion. I
always get there. It doesn't matter how arduous the task,
I will get to the end. And that is like
its own kind of drive. You know. It's like I
don't really care what that does for me career wise,
but I just have this almost spiritual devotion to work

(47:58):
to the work of artwork, you know, whether it's you know,
writing a book or making a song or seeing you know,
an event pulled off the way that I can imagine
it being pulled off. It's just, uh, it's a strange thing.
And sometimes I step back and I look down at
my life, which is so consumed with art. You know,

(48:24):
it's the main it's the main thing that I've had
in my life. You know, I don't have kids, I
don't you know, there's all these things that haven't haven't
been my path as a human being on this planet.
And I think, like, am I insane that I just
get so obsessed with these little like buildings that's little
dioramas or something, you know, Like what am I doing?
Am I like still a kid playing with sand castles?
You know what I mean? Like I sometimes it really

(48:47):
it trips me out, you know, and then I can
kind of like come back to earth and say like, well, no,
you know, like we like humans need art to live,
they need music, they need stories, they need they needed
things to immerse themselves in that aren't just the grind,
you know, the like the like the cycle of producing

(49:08):
and consuming, you know. And and then I try to
say like, no, it's okay, you know, like I'm on
my own path and I love what I love, so
I'm just I'm just gonna work on that, you know,
right right.

Speaker 1 (49:19):
It's the it's the act of finishing and the I mean,
everybody always talks about, you know, you need to get
satisfaction of the process of rather than the thing being done.
And it's like it sounds like you get satisfaction all
along the way and then on top of it, you
actually finish it, which is you know, that's like ninety
percent of the battle.

Speaker 3 (49:39):
Yeah, I love you know, for the most part. There
are exceptions to this, but for the most part, I
really love the process of making things I do. I
have some been in some situations in my life where
I don't enjoy the process. I find it incredibly painful.
And either way, whether it's a painful process, or whether

(49:59):
it's one that I just love to live in. Like
when I was writing my book, I just like really
just loved existing in that world. It's something that I
need to finish because if I can't finish it, I
can't let it go. And it's like at some point
you just have to let it go and move on,
you know. It's it really is like you just got
to You just got to move past it and then

(50:21):
let other people have it. And you know, especially with
the book, it's like it's like people have been really
like you find out people find out about its slower.
You know, it's not like you listen to it once
on the internet and you know it. It's like you
have to rise on it down and then buy it
and then you get it and you have to find
time to read it, and then you have to finish
it and digest. It's like a pretty heavy book. And

(50:41):
so like people are still coming up to me just
having head read it and giving me like this intense
review of it, and I'm like this is so cool,
but I am like, you know, I have to be
on the next thing now.

Speaker 1 (50:54):
You know.

Speaker 4 (50:54):
That's just my life and it's a weird one, you know.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
Yeah, I was actually the Dovetails perfectly. It's like, it's like,
you know, how this interesty is gonna go Jeff, the
I did. I was fortunate enough to order the book
and get it and read it and consume it, and
you know, without guessing you have too much love the experience.
The fun thing for me about Yeah, of course, of
course it was. It was, yeah, it's just you read

(51:20):
it and obviously knowing you like it. Just I was like, oh,
this is just like hanging out with Jeff, but like
the weird dark part and like I'm okay with that.
But the interesting experience for me was a straight edge
adult reading this that has like literally never done drugs,
and it it felt like I was doing drugs, like

(51:41):
the experience of it. And I'm sure some people have
articulated some version of this, but like you know, flowing
out of different lines of thought and different you know,
aspects of the story. And I'm I'm sure a portion
of it was intentional or was it simply just a
byproduct of obviously the way that you were putting the
novel together.

Speaker 3 (52:00):
Yeah, no, it was it was an incredibly you know,
some people said like, oh, it's so raw, and I
just have to laugh because it's it's not you know
what I mean, Like there there is like it is
meant to have the surface of something that's quite confessional
and direct and raw and happening sort of stream of conscious,
but actually like you know, twelve full drafts, full rewrites.

(52:22):
You know, I went to classes to learn how to
do certain techniques, and the whole thing is like it's
in there's the process behind. It was so much, you know,
five hours a day, five days a week, five years,
like it's thousands of hours literally, and and so you know,

(52:43):
there were all different ways that the drug experience in
the book is meant to come across, and one of
them is that, you know, like every book they say,
like every book needs its sex scenes, you know, it
needs like sensual pleasures, and like those don't actually have
to be sex scenes. Like Hurricuemercami Rights seems about food,
you know, and that's his central experience in the books.
Like he always like puts in these like lush you know,

(53:06):
like appetizing scenes of cooking, and my sex scenes were
drug scenes, and so like there's a certain aspect early
on when the character is using drugs, and it's like,
you know, it's like it almost comes across as like
an ad for doing heroin, you know, because it's just
like such a vivid, pleasurable experience that the character's in. Obviously,

(53:30):
like there's a toll that has to be paid and
when later on some of the drug experiences are incredibly unpleasant.
But yeah, it was really kind of trying to figure
out the the way to immerse people in different especially
the main drug of the book, which is this substance

(53:51):
called ibagaine. It's a hallucinogen from an African shrub that
lasts anywhere from twenty four to forty eight hours the trip,
and it's a very unpleasant trip. The way to write that,
that hallucination scene, that was really a lot of work
to figure out because there is no other I have

(54:13):
the game novel, there is no other artwork about this substance.
So it was like I had to build that language
from the ground up. And you know, I read this
one review of the book that was like it's great,
it's beautiful, it's all been done before, and I was like, man,
oh man, show me where.

Speaker 4 (54:31):
You know what I mean, Like, nobody's ever written.

Speaker 3 (54:33):
A book about this drug before. So like, I get it,
you know what I mean, I get the idea that
there have been drug books before, But like bretdy ston
Ellis's cocaine novels are not the same as William Burrows
heroin novels. It's not the same as you know, as
like Under the Volcano about drinking, you know, I mean,
these are all different experiences. And I think this book
is it's very much its own strange nightmare vision of

(54:58):
addiction and drugs and and that was it. Yeah, it's
very intentional. Everything in the book. There's not a lot
left to chance. You know, every chapter has been taken
out put back in. There's there's probably a good twenty chapters,
uh even that work with this draft that I took
out just for pacing, you know, just being like that's
too this doesn't move as quickly as I like, this

(55:20):
thing here doesn't really you know, it's too much information,
this thing, you know. So yeah, it's nice, not right.

Speaker 1 (55:27):
No, totally. This This wasn't just like a light a
light run through. It's like, yeah, I did two passes
and we're done. It's like that was this was this
was hammered, buddy, you know, the the god of thunder
with you know, his hay, all the all the metaphors
you could put in there.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
Yeah, we still haven't had a single reader find a
mistake in the book, which just goes to show how
many times we had a proof read. I mean, I'll
go you know, I was in a I was at
a reading in Miami this week and I met somebody
at the bookstore and she was like, yeah, I was
one of your proof years And I was like, wow,
I'm still meeting people that read this book like it's
you know, but but Chelsea, it was her first book
on the press, and she's like, I want it to

(56:03):
be so clean, you know. She's like I want to
be like flawless.

Speaker 4 (56:07):
And I was like, I'm man to it, you know,
let's do it.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
Yeah, You're like, this isn't this isn't a paperback seven inch,
Like this is the real deal. Yeah. A few last
things I want to hit on was the you know,
clearly Thursday exists in a very comfortable space now where
you guys, you know our music industry Adjason, I'd like
to say where it's like, yes, you were participating in
playing shows and touring, but don't have to feel that,

(56:32):
you know, hearkening back to a earlier statement the rat
race of like all right, we put out a record
and we're gonna go tour for three days out of
the year or whatever. Yeah, So I'm guessing that there
is an element of it where the band feels less pressure.
But then there's probably an element of the fact that like, oh, now,
like money can come into the band now, so there

(56:54):
is an element of pressure where it's like, oh now
this now, this thing that wasn't a part of our
lives for so many years, like, you know, trying to
find the balance of those two or is it just
fun just period.

Speaker 3 (57:07):
Well, that's a really good question. I guess the only
answer is, you know, so much of it is so fun,
like playing music is so fun, Like I love everybody
associated with Thursday, I really do. And also like some
of it can still be so hard. You know, we'll
flirt with writing music again and we'll just you know,

(57:28):
it's like everything that broke up the band the first
time will just come flooding back in, you know, right,
And when I was saying, like, you know, sometimes writing
is incredibly painful, like the Thursday, I don't know why,
it's just always been that way. It's just always been
so painful, and it's like, usually it's been worth it
because you know, things come out of it that stand

(57:49):
the test of time, and that twenty years later, people
are still talking about and thinking about wanting to see
us play, and that's that's beautiful. But yeah, it's it's
a funny thing. And so many bands that I love
came back did reunions. I was so excited to see
them and they put out a record that I was like, ah,
wish you didn't put that out of you know, like,
don't love that. So I've been very like, do we

(58:11):
need new music? You know what I mean, That's kind
of been my line in the bands, like do we
really need new music? I feel like we got like
six records to choose from, plus like a gazillion B
sides and you know, but yeah, it's a really it's
a strange balance to try and figure out because you know,
it's been thirteen years since we made music and people
still want to see us for some reason. But also

(58:33):
you know, like I love the music that has come
out of this band. If we could do something that
it was up to that level or even you know,
ahead of that level, like why wouldn't I want you? You
know what I mean, it's it's the most beloved thing
that I've ever done in my life is Thursday. So
I love to make great art with Thursday again. But
everything that comes along with it we just all find

(58:55):
so so tough. And I don't know, maybe that's what's
next for Thursdays. Figure out how to how to write
feeling like you're dying.

Speaker 1 (59:05):
You know, totally.

Speaker 3 (59:07):
I don't know, we'll see, we'll cross that bridge when
we come to it, I guess, you know totally.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
It's like I mean, it's like the you know, the dentist.
You got to go to it once or twice a
year and it's like, all right, maybe we'll try it
again this year. Now I got a cavity, Okay, I'll pass. Yeah. Yeah.
And it seems like, I mean, looking at you as
a person like you, it seems like you clearly have
a reverence for the past, and you don't, you know,
just completely exist in the you know, I threw a

(59:36):
touchdown pass and you know, my high school football game,
and like you're only you know, writing on that laurel
so to speak. But then you also to your point,
you like to see things too fruition and like, you know,
constantly moving forward and always looking for the what's next
or what have you? Do you try to balance the
two or do you basically or just like no, I'm
really just focused in the past. And yes, of course

(59:58):
I can, you know, do these anniversary tours the stuff,
but like that's just supplemental for me trying to finish
the other things I'm working on.

Speaker 3 (01:00:05):
Yeah, yeah, that's a I mean, I just I always
feel like it's, uh, it's like a strange thing to
call an either or situation. You know. For me, it's
it's all one body of work that I've been writing
and working on since I was nineteen, and I continue
to make stuff and it's all tied together. You know,

(01:00:26):
my book clearly couldn't exist without Thursday. All the other
stuff that I've done, you know, whether it's like getting
to do shows of Ink and Dagger or you know,
all the United Nations stuff. It's just it's all one
for me. It's all one project that I've been working
on for a long time with a lot of different people,
and I love every stage of it. You know, there's

(01:00:50):
some missteps along the way, and I don't. I don't
try and revisit my missteps as much, you know, Like
I don't think there's a lot off of our first record,
off of Way that I love. There's a few songs
and I love playing those, but you know, I just
basically like anything that that's good that I've made, it's
still as much a part of me as the stuff
that I made last week, you know what I mean,

(01:01:12):
I don't really feel that, Like I don't really feel like, oh,
that's some other guy's stuff and he was a different
person and I don't recognize him anymore. I just, for
whatever reason, I totally recognize that guy, you know what
I mean. I'm like, that's still me. I'm still like
the same naive you know sincere you know, overly sentimental

(01:01:34):
person that I've always been. Like, my art is going
to have certain hallmarks and like now I'm much more
sophisticated than I was back then, but that's like a
part of everybody's life, you know what I mean. If
you're not getting more sophisticated, what are you doing? So Like,
I don't I don't look at Full Collapse and say
there are things about it that are so naive. I

(01:01:54):
think like, yeah, listen, how innocent that record is. It
was so you know, so un polluted by having your
heartbroken by things that you used to believe in and
that you don't believe in anymore, you know what I mean.
And yeah, to me, it all just goes together. And
I think like it's all about both, you know, it's
all about like embracing what you've done in the past

(01:02:15):
and trying to make something new that's you know, beautiful
and different.

Speaker 4 (01:02:18):
And yeah, it's a continuum.

Speaker 3 (01:02:21):
Yeah, it's just a continuum. Doesn't feel like it doesn't
feel like it's in any kind of a conflict to me.

Speaker 1 (01:02:27):
Yeah, no, no, for sure. And they and to your point,
it doesn't have to. It's like if you feel that, uh,
you know, whatever you do in the future will tarnish
whatever you've done in the past, it's like, well, maybe
you're just looking at the wrong way. And it's like yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:02:41):
And also like if you truly think you're about going
to do something that might tarnish the past, like just
maybe you don't like what you're working on right now,
you need to go back to the drawing board, you.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
Know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (01:02:50):
It's it's okay, like I think it's okay to fail
when you're trying to do something, you know what I mean, Like,
I think that that's all right. You know, you just
have to be honest with yourself and say, like, maybe
this one wasn't the one, you know, I gotta move on.

Speaker 1 (01:03:05):
Yeah, gotta take a swing, you know, the uh, the
only thing that you haven't done. I mean, I know
you've obviously appeared on television and like to a lesser extent,
like maybe you've participated in some you know, background work
in film and stuff like that. Because it's like, you know,
you've you've done a podcast. Technical Well, you you haven't
done a musical, right like, I mean as yes, you play.

Speaker 3 (01:03:27):
It basically, Yeah, I hate. I have a real hard
time of musicals. That's the form that I like. Whenever
my partner sees something, she'll be like, yeah, I saw
Barbie or whatever, like you're not gonna like it, And
I'd be like, why, you know, I'm not against Barbie
and she'd be like, it reminded me of a musical,
and I'll be like, oh, yeah, I probably not gonna
like it.

Speaker 4 (01:03:46):
I'm probably not gonna like it, right.

Speaker 1 (01:03:49):
Well, that that's why they it's like every marketing ploy
in new films that come out that are musicals, like
they just get hidden, you know. It's like whatever, Walka
comes out and people are like, wait, they sing a
lot of that. It's like, yeah, they got to hide
the factors of musical because so many people are allergic to.

Speaker 4 (01:04:04):
It and I don't want to be.

Speaker 3 (01:04:06):
I try. I don't know what it is. There's something
about the there's a falsity to it that that just
pushes right all all my buttons, like makes me feel
very uncomfortable.

Speaker 1 (01:04:17):
Right right right, Okay, so musicals out, but like when yeah,
you're you know, you you completing the uh, the entertainment
trifecta as that we're playing in a band. So like,
are you, you know, would you ever you know, do
the uh Mattie Mathison route of obviously going on the
bear and being the you know, dorky sidekick or whatever, Like,
is that is that in the future at all?

Speaker 3 (01:04:35):
I don't think that I have the acting thing. I
was actually recently at this reading. It was like Richard
Hell and a bunch of other writers. Oh wow, yeah,
it was really something. And I had some friends, uh
that I was sitting with. One an actor and one like,
uh a director who is doing some acting and they

(01:04:59):
were like a about it. I was like, yeah, I've
been in a few music videos. I'm so bad, Like
I'm so I'm such a bad actor, Like I'm so bad.
I don't even know, like I'll put it. This is
how bad I am. When I was mugged at gunpoint,
the thief like he like made an instagram with my

(01:05:20):
iPad and it like tagged all my friends, so like
it was everybody knew who mugged me at gunpoint because
it was like one of those like can you believe
how dumb criminals can be? So the little news had
me on to talk about like how crazy that was
that somebody who said it said up like an instagram
from my iPad And on the news they asked me

(01:05:40):
to walk down the street at the end, and my
my girlfriend called me and she's like, oh my god,
I saw that thing on the news, like you know,
you don't even know how to walk on camera? And
I was like I know I couldn't. I was thinking
about it, like as soon as they asked me to walk,
I was like, wait, how do you like walk on camera?
And I got like real like self conscious and didn't
know what like how do I move my hands when

(01:06:01):
I walk?

Speaker 4 (01:06:01):
Do I?

Speaker 3 (01:06:01):
Like? How do I stand up straight? I couldn't do it.
And I just realized, like, never have me on camera
because like I'm that guy who'll be like what do
I do with my hands? Should I hold two cups?
You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (01:06:11):
Like what are they both in the pockets or like
one behind my head? Or where do I put it?

Speaker 4 (01:06:16):
Can I get like boxing gloves? I think I'd be
more comfortable.

Speaker 1 (01:06:21):
But Jeff, Jeff, for nowhere you're boxing. It doesn't matter.
It doesn't matter.

Speaker 4 (01:06:23):
No, just like in my study, you know, like just chilling.

Speaker 1 (01:06:27):
Just yeah, can you handcuff me? Maybe I can be
a criminal in some capacity.

Speaker 3 (01:06:31):
I don't think it's just like being dead on that view,
you know what I mean, Like I don't think I
could do that role.

Speaker 1 (01:06:38):
Totally. Well, at least you have not only the exposure
but the awareness of it, because I think a lot
of people that you know, do uh get exposure to entertainment,
whether it's playing in a band or otherwise. It's like, oh,
I've been on the stage. I could probably do something
like that, And then they don't. They don't get the note.
They don't get the note that it's like, oh yeah,
that's a whole different medium. I hope you realize that.

Speaker 3 (01:06:58):
That was my great fear when I was like writing
the book, was like I was talking to my agent.
She's like, yeah, but everybody knows that you're like the
most like literary like front man, like you know what
I mean, you have it, And I was like, but
that's the problem to a bunch of like emo kids.
I am, but like now you put me in the middle,
Like I'm not as literary as like Don DeLillo, you
know what I mean, Like you're putting me in with

(01:07:18):
the big boys now, Like what if I'm a fool?
You know? And she's like, I'll let you know if
you're a fool before you send out the book. And
I was like okay, because that's that is my fear,
is like jumping into something because I've had success in
music and just being like, oh, that's so embarrassing. I'm
so embarrassed for him, you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (01:07:36):
Like that's yeah, you're like you're like listen, I know
I can't go to toe to toe to toe with you,
but like, can we talk about the frail seven inch.
Oh you don't know frail? Sorry, bro.

Speaker 3 (01:07:47):
Yeah, And like speaking of acting, our boy, our mutual friend,
Jeremy Baum, excellent. I thought he was very good in
the Weird Al.

Speaker 1 (01:07:55):
Movie exactly exactly, And that's it, and I think that's
the that's the fun thing where it's like you're able
to at least just like, you know, dip your toe
in and then whether you get bitten by the bug
or not, you know, it's a different story. I mean,
obviously him being born and raised in Burbank, like you
have no choice but to you know, play a bit
part at some point. But yeah, well, Jeff, I really

(01:08:17):
appreciate you hanging out with me. It was great to
pick your brand in ways that I was excited to do.
So thank you for doing that.

Speaker 3 (01:08:22):
Right. I always love when we get to hang out,
So this is this is just a blast.

Speaker 1 (01:08:28):
Yes, we have done it. Thank you very much to
Jeff for his time, and thank you for his publicist,
Tim for bringing the idea up and being like, wait
a minute, you've never had Jeff on your podcast. That
seems insane, Like I feel like you should have done
that by now, and you know what, I didn't. So
we made it official, and yeah, let's keep making things
official everybody, But no joke. Six hundred episodes is no

(01:08:52):
small feet, and I pat myself in the back. But
I just like the fact that I'm interacting with all
of you on a you know, weekly, monthly, maybe semi
annually basis, regardless of whenever you tap into these episodes.
I do greatly appreciate it. This is a fun thing
for me to do, and the fact I've been able
to sustain it as long as I have is definitely
because of your patronage and support for the show. Whether

(01:09:16):
it's financially or whether it's just purely listening, all of
those things are not lost on me. So thank you,
very very very much. Next week, the train keeps on moving, baby,
let's go. We have episode six oh one with a
new friend of mine. His name is Tyler Short. He
is the vocalist from Inclination and he also runs a

(01:09:36):
record label called l dB, which is the Life Death
Brigade that a Festus jumped up around it and anyways,
I just love Inclination And he also has a new
band called walk Alone that's really really good. So yeah,
we dig into it all and I just punished him
on as an email list for his record label, and
I just responded to it one day being like, Tyler,

(01:09:58):
I know it's you and I really want to speak
to you on a podcast, and he was like, oh
my gosh, I would love to do that. So there
we go. All these things happened in really circuitous, weird ways,
or some of these people just ask me and I
say yes and then vice versa. So anyways, until then,
please be safe everybody,

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