Nick Pye from Shotmaker

Happy New Year! 2024 is here and we are going BACK to the 90's for this particular episode. Nick Pye played in the legendary screamo/indie rock band Shotmaker from Ottawa, Ontario. The band loomed large in my consciousness ever since I tripped across them in the late 90's and was like "WHO THE HELL IS THIS BAND AND I LOVE IT SO MUCH?" I had to eventually track Nick down, and this is what transpired around the re-release of their discography on the amazing Solid Brass Records. We discuss touring as a 15 year old, 90's hardcore and I forced Nick to think about the bands impact and legacy (in a nice way). Listen and enjoy this trip down memory lane and how incredible Shotmaker was. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:19):
You're listening to one hundred words or less with Ray
Harkins Welcome everybody to the Year of Our Lord twenty
twenty four, and continuing to put out podcasts about people
who are involved in independent music, whether that is punk, hardcore,
indie rock, emo, whatever it is scream.

Speaker 2 (00:35):
Oh, I could probably come up with some more genres.
My new favorite one, as I've heard as of late,
you know, invented or maybe wrongly attributed that he invented this,
but you know, maybe Hilbert probably is a batty core,
which I dare you to google and go down that
rabbit hole. Friend of the show, Craig Reynolds, the drummer
First Rate from the Path, does an amazing podcast called Downbeat. Anyways,

(00:59):
putting all that aside, if this is your first time here, welcome,
If this is your one hundredth time here, awesome. If
this is your five hundredth time here, that's probably really
only me. But I mean, if you've listened to five
undred episode of this thing, holy moly, I'm eternally indebted
to you, and you've probably spent more time with me
than my wife has. I don't know, maybe that's that's
probably mischaracterizing it. But anyways, I digress we and I

(01:24):
am incredibly excited about this episode today because this is
a person who I've tried to go like about getting
on the show over quite some time. So I have
Nick Pie from the legendary Ontario screamo, indie rock whatever
you want to call it band called shot Maker, who

(01:44):
just released a brand new beautiful box set discography courtesy
of Solid Brass Records. I will leave a link in
the show notes in which you can go purchase that
bad boy. The moment that that came up for pre order,
I ordered it. I don't have all the original dressings
of their seminal LPs and splits and all that stuff.

(02:06):
Shot Maker is a really cool band because they I mean,
they were talking about the ground floor. I mean there
we're talking about existing in the early to mid nineties
and definitely paved a way for many bands to inspire
their sounds based off of the weirdo noise that they
were making in the you know, southern Ontario, mid level

(02:28):
Ontario upper area of Ontario area in Canada.

Speaker 3 (02:34):
They're they're from Ottawa.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
I just you know, wanted to paint the whole picture
of the province. But Nick was so gracious and so
cool to spend time with me and let me just
rifle around his brain, because you know, this is a
band that I think a lot of people who have
been exposed to end up loving them and are just like,
why was this band like what you know mentioned in

(02:56):
the same sentences as like Fugazi or whatever. I mean,
maybe that's a little bit hyperbolic, but you get what
I'm saying. And I got keyed into them pretty early
once I started to explore all the beautiful regions of
Ontario in regards to just all the music coming out
from there because I was obsessed with it. Still am
obsessed with it. You've probably heard me talk about it
more than one occasion on this show. But anyways, that's

(03:19):
all that. Shot Maker is an incredible band. You need
to listen to their whole discography if you mess with
anything angular, heavy ish, just great band. So I'm trying
something out this year because you love recommendations like the
year end list that I put up in regards to
the favorite records, and like what myself enjoyed, what my

(03:42):
friend Jeremy enjoyed, or what Joey enjoyed. I just get
so much positive feedback that I'm gonna do a little
quick recommendation of the week. At the top of each episode,
I am going to talk about a thing that I've
been enjoying that I think you should pay attention to
in some capacity. This one is sort of, I guess, like,
you know, jumping off of the Honorable Mentions episode that

(04:02):
I did towards the tail end of last year, or
actually the literal last episode of the new year or
twenty twenty three, I should say. This is released on
Sunday Drive Records. The band is called Still. They put
an EP called Doomed that I have been loving. Don't
get me wrong in saying the fact that this isn't
reinventing the Wheel, and that might sound like, you know,

(04:25):
a disparaging thing, but it's not. It's a really, really
good band. I was never previously aware of them. And
then this EP, this four song EP dropped. It was
you know, very very late last year, and I've just
been obsessively listening to it. And it's four songs, so
it's a you know, easy twelve to fourteen minutes and
you just wash it down and then be like, all right,
let's listen to it on repeat. But yeah, if you

(04:47):
like Failure, you know hum all those sort of bands,
you will absolutely adore the band still and the ep
is called Doomed. So there we go, one recommendation a week.
I'll be dropping in this little interest. So anyways, you
can always email the show for your recommendations. Hunterwards podcast
at gmail dot com love to hear feedback from everybody,
And you can also leave a rating and review on

(05:09):
the Apple podcast page. It helps out tremendously, take the
point four seconds it takes for you to do that
and maybe like thirty seconds writing like a sentence or two.
You can also leave a rating on the Spotify page
as well. All of those things help, And you can
follow along on YouTube because I publish these episodes on
a regular cadence there and some people love to listen
to podcasts on YouTube.

Speaker 3 (05:29):
So there we go.

Speaker 2 (05:30):
That's what's happening, and I will leave a link in
the show notes to follow along with the show's page
on YouTube. Anyways, let's talk to Nick from shot Maker,
who I'm listening back to this interview. I was like,
oh my gosh, I just love Shotmakers so much. So anyways,
check out their discography. It's up for streaming everywhere. And then,
like I said, there's a link in the show notes

(05:50):
where you can order the awesome box set on vinyl,
So here we go. And I started to get into

(06:23):
like punk and hardcore probably you know, mid nineties, so
right as you guys were obviously disbanding, but being from California,
I got into you know, Ebulition Records and like that
whole scene. And then I became obsessed with a lot
of the Greater Ontario area of music in regards to like,

(06:44):
you know, all the Bay whatever, whether it was like
choke Hold and everything Chris Collahan did, like just I
was obsessed with that whole area. And so then shot
Maker came across my uh you know, desk, so to speak,
and I got into the Crayon Club LP, and I
just remember I was so excited to find that out
in the wild at a record store because I knew
it was like a little more difficult to find. Anyways,

(07:06):
when I first listened to it, I was like, oh wow,
like it's this interesting combo of like you know, sort
of like the post hardcore whatever, quicksandish type stuff, Fugazi
whatever you want to call that. And then obviously what
screamo as you know, it became known in the later nineties,
but obviously both like that that what you guys were
doing was pre dating that scene. I know this is

(07:30):
probably a difficult thing to maybe articulate, but just like,
who were you guys trying to rip off? Because obviously
every band that you start, you're just trying to rip
off other bands. What was kind of the you know,
I guess thesis statement as it were.

Speaker 4 (07:44):
Yeah, I mean, I don't want to be aloof, but
I kind of feel like our band we had influences,
for sure, but I think as an artist, you do
what you can do, not what you want to do.
And I think when we were playing together, our sound
was just happening kind of organically and it didn't really
sound like anyone of that time. Like we had influences,

(08:07):
like obviously we loved you know, Fugazi and Circus Lupis
was amazing, you know, the Jesus Lizard no means no,
all of those bands, but we weren't. We weren't trying
to emulate like, we weren't trying to emulate anything. We
were just just kind of existing. And I would say

(08:28):
the biggest influence on our musical direction wasn't any one band.
It was actually going on our first US tour in
nineteen ninety three, where we started playing with all these
bands we'd never heard of before, and and it it
felt like there was something really urgent and important happening

(08:49):
in that time, and it was this, you know, the
music was urgent, the music was important, and I would
say it was something in the water. There was just
some collective thing that, you know, I think the energy
of that time really influenced the music more than trying
to emulate anyone band. Yeah, so I know that's kind
of an aloof answer, but I don't think we were

(09:13):
ever really trying to piggyback on a sound or a style.
I think we were just letting ourselves kind of forge
our own path a bit, you know.

Speaker 2 (09:21):
Yeah, And I mean, I that is a very fair
response because obviously in the you know, pre internet days,
that you weren't I mean, yes, you were able to
you know, understand bands sounds based off of obviously records
you get in like all those bands that you were citing,
But there definitely isn't that idea where you can just

(09:43):
be like, you know, like when I started my first band.
I was like, oh, yeah, I want to be you know,
Unbroken Meat, Snapcase or whatever, and like that was pre
innet as well.

Speaker 3 (09:51):
But like you were just.

Speaker 2 (09:53):
Trying to like pull these influences, even though whatever you
were trying to rip off sounded nothing like it.

Speaker 3 (09:59):
Because you just weren't that good or whatever.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
But I understand, I understand exactly what you're saying, where
it's just like, oh, it's mostly you following those impulses
and energy rather than articulating like, oh, yes, here are
the you know, seven bands that we want to like
rip off or whatever.

Speaker 4 (10:15):
Yeah, exactly, Like I think if you're like into like
you hear about like athletes talking about dissecting their game
and things and they study other people's performance and you know,
they take the shot of this person or or you know,
the drivel of that person or something, and yeah, I
don't think we were doing that. It was it was

(10:35):
more of an energy we were responding to. It was
you know, and we were from Ontario, and then in Ontario,
we were from a small town. We weren't from like
Toronto at that time when we were starting, and there
was nothing really to do but skateboard and play music
and so essentially, we we spend a lot of time

(10:56):
together just you know, we would practice sometimes two times
a day, times a day because we'd you know, be
at Matt's house. We'd you know, build a jump outside
for you know, snowboarding or something, you know, go hit
that for a couple of hours, come back in practice again.
And we spent like every waking moment kind of together.
And we had a good chemistry as friends, and I

(11:17):
think that that's really what helped to fund the music
and the rhythm. I think we were really in sync.
And I'm not sure if that happens many times in
your life, but we, you know, the three of us
spent a lot of time together and I feel like
we were just really in sync with each other.

Speaker 2 (11:34):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, Well I'll pull on some of those
threads a little bit later. But yeah, you yourself, were
you actually born and raised in Ontario? I know, like
you said, you kind of came up in a small
town and you guys eventually moved to Ottawa. But where
were you born and raised?

Speaker 4 (11:51):
I was born in England. I was born in Torqui,
and I moved to the Bellville area probably nineteen eighty,
so I was about four at that time, and Matt
and Tim are both from the Bubble area.

Speaker 2 (12:09):
Yeah, okay, and I presume you probably have no memories
whatsoever of England.

Speaker 4 (12:15):
I do, I mean I was, I was four, but
not like more more more feelings, nothing concrete, right, Yeah,
but yeah I do, I do, And yeah, go back
a lot too. So it's it's hard to it's hard
to distinguish what I know now from what I knew
then because memory is this, you know, kind of a formless.

Speaker 2 (12:36):
Thing, so right exactly, and especially the idea where it's like,
you know, whether it's you're remembering the stories told to
you versus like, oh yeah, I actually remember that myself.

Speaker 3 (12:45):
It's like, you know, we are what is told to.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
Us absolutely, and from what I understand your you know,
household makeup as far as like you have, do you
have two older sisters and like we're mom and dad
in the house and everything like that.

Speaker 4 (12:59):
I had, And I had three older sisters. I think
the eldest was seven seven years older than me, so
I was the youngest. So I grew up with three
older sisters. A mom and dad were around for a bit,
and then you know, not not together for for quite

(13:20):
a while too, So yeah, it was. It was a
normal home. I think the eighties. You know, some amazing
music came out of the eighties. So I grew up
with like when I was very young, like you know,
kind of pitching my sister's records and getting influenced. Like
I think in grade four, I was really into you know,

(13:41):
Dead Kennedy's. I think the first album I bought was
Franken Christ when I was in grade four, and you know,
so I was I was hearing all that kind of
music and influence like really early on because my older
sisters obviously, right.

Speaker 2 (13:54):
Yeah, totally, well, and I think that I mean, you
being the you know, baby of the bunch, like all
you have to do as far as you know, trying
to find anything quote unquote cool, is you know, looking
to older siblings or maybe obviously if your your parents
know what's up there, showing you little things here and there.
So yeah, it's cool that you could just sneak into
their room and be like, well, I wonder what this is?

Speaker 3 (14:16):
What's this?

Speaker 4 (14:17):
Exactly? Exactly. Yeah. It was so great in the in
the eighties, you know, you had that sort of the
real post first weight punk, like you know, the Cure
and all those bands. And I remember my sisters being
really in a new wave like depeche Mode and and
you know that that having a big influence of me
when I was young. But also like you know, those

(14:39):
bands they just felt for some reason, it felt arm
and arm with punk rock too, you know, it was
you know, just it made sense to listen to like
the Dead Kennedy's when you were listening to The Cure.
Just I didn't see like a huge separation to that
because I had kind of an eclectic mix from from
you know, the different range of sisters I had, I guess.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
Sure, And I mean in retrospect, like when you start
to get older and have perspective on where those bands
and artists were coming from, it's like, yes, the you know,
the linkage between you know, new wave or whatever you
want to call it of the eighties and then obviously
punk like you know they were they were branches on the.

Speaker 4 (15:21):
Same tree for sure, for sure. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (15:24):
Yeah, And so what kind of kid did you find yourself?
You know, being like did you care about school? Were
you doing you know, the prerequisite you have to play
hockey because you're from Canada, Like, what what did you
find yourself getting into.

Speaker 4 (15:36):
No no hockey for me. But I, you know, I
was okay at school. I guess I didn't really overthink school.
I finished all my schooling, you know, and I went
on to do multiple kind of degrees at university as well,
So I school wasn't hard for me, but I I

(15:58):
didn't really have anything I cared too much about at school,
like subjects. Subject wise, I was more interested in, uh,
I guess when I was young, skateboarding, like really interested
in skateboarding, so that that was what I did, like
is every waking moment. And then uh kind of music

(16:19):
came along grade nine ish for me, although I'd been
like into hardcore and everything and punk rock well before then,
Like grade nine was when I started playing in the band,
and then high school really took a back seat in
my touring. So touring and shop Maker was really like,
you know, the first and foremost thing that that I

(16:41):
you know, did and was interested in. And school I
guess kind of suffered through through those four years of
high school. I didn't really didn't really put too much
work into it, but uh, you know, later on in life,
I returned to academia and uh, you know, am a
university professor. Now, so it's kind of an interesting you know,

(17:02):
full circle. But yeah, I not not super didn't focus
on my studies too much. But I was really into
like skateboarding and subculture sports, like like when when we
were skateboarding in the in the eighties and nineties, like
it was it was like being a punk, like you're

(17:22):
in a small town. You would get chased by the jocks.
It was basically a Dikendi song, right, it was. It
was a subculture of its own, and it was it
was kind of special, you know. It was it brought
together a really interesting and eclectic group of people, and uh,
it was. It was special. It was special in a
way it wasn't. It wasn't a commercial thing like it

(17:43):
is now. It was it felt like more of a
movement or a club that not a lot of people
wanted to be a part of.

Speaker 3 (17:49):
You know, oh yeah absolutely.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
I mean you the amount of people that obviously got
into you know, independent subculture, whether it was going down
the road of you know, punk hardcore, whether it was
just like embracing skateboarding for all.

Speaker 3 (18:03):
It was worse, like yeah, it was. There was, no,
it is not.

Speaker 2 (18:07):
I mean it's the same ideas like you know, tattoos
in the you know, Year of Our Lord in twenty
twenty three, Like that's not edgy at all, Like everybody
has a tattoo, but at one point that was edgy
where it's like, oh my gosh, I can't believe you
would do that to your you know, arm or your
face or whatever. Yeah, And so as you were, you know,
kind of figuring out like what you were into from

(18:30):
a musical perspective, and like you said, you were kind
of you know, picking up from the cues from your sister,
and then obviously once you got into skateboarding that revealed
itself more. I find it, you know, absolutely insane that
you were, you know, touring at that young age, like
because I mean your first tour you did with shot
Maker was like when you were like fifteen, right.

Speaker 4 (18:51):
Yeah, I turned I turned sixteen on stage in Gilman
Street in Berkelyn.

Speaker 2 (19:00):
They did they sing happy birthday to you on stage?

Speaker 4 (19:03):
No? No, I think didn't. But yeah, I I our
first tour, I was fifteen when we left. Yeah, that's right.
So for half of the tour I was still fifteen.
So yeah, it's it's ridiculously but Matt and Tim weren't
that much older. I think Tim Tim was two years
older than me, maybe seventeen. Matt was probably Matt was

(19:24):
the oldest. Uh he could have been eighteen nineteen, still
like super young to be on tour.

Speaker 2 (19:29):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely, because I mean I reflect, I like,
you started to tour in high school as well, and
like I was, you know, probably sixteen or seventeen when
I first started a tour. But just that idea of
going to your parents and saying, hey, I'm going to
be traveling I mean for you, like literally to a
different country. Yea. And so we're as you started to

(19:52):
you know, play in shot Maker and obviously you know,
play shows and bring this stuff home. That was probably
pretty weird to your parents, like how were they in
acting with you, you know, getting into this stuff.

Speaker 4 (20:03):
So my my sisters had all left home by that time,
my mom had to divorce my dad, and it was
just just me and her and she. She had a
new boyfriend at that time, so I think she was
probably okay with getting the you know, having the space.
She she was more of a good friend than you know,

(20:24):
a stereotypical mom, So she kind of herself as like, yeah,
a friend rather than someone there too. I don't know
what what would be. Yeah, someone there to be sort
of more of an authoritative figure. But yeah, she was
very supportive. And our tours were I guess kind of

(20:46):
they were long enough for us. I guess six weeks.
So we would go away six seven weeks and as
you said, to a new country, coast to coast, you know,
down the seaboards, you know, across the bottom, back across
the top. Yeah, they were they were long tours and
and for myself being a parent now, like I could

(21:09):
not imagine getting my child to do something like that.
It was a different world back then. Though It wasn't
like I mean, the world's always been scary and in conflict,
but I think it's it's quite a different place now.
Uh So there was there was a bit more. There
was a sense a little more freedom in a way

(21:30):
and there then than there is now, I think, and
I can't quite put my finger on that. I would
have to think about that a bit more, but it
felt it felt like the world was open a little
more and it was more free to go out. And
it was not I don't know if it was safer,
but it was just different, right.

Speaker 3 (21:48):
Yeah, sure.

Speaker 2 (21:49):
Well, I mean, you know, I'm sure you would. As
you were traveling, you would you know, call your mom
like once a week and be like, oh, I'm here,
like I'm excited to share this, like whereas now obviously
everybody is connected all the time at any particular juncture.
And so it was kind of like probably that idea
of oh, yes, like Mix going to summer camp for
six weeks, like I'm not going to talk to him,

(22:09):
and like that's.

Speaker 4 (22:10):
Fine, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:13):
And so with that decision of cause I know, like,
is shot Maker sensibly like your first band or did
you play in something prior to that?

Speaker 4 (22:22):
I played, I played in a little band before, but
you wouldn't have heard of them. And then Tim and
I from Tim from Shopping or Tim from Herbal's Scream
at that time, and I would play in my bedroom
and we we would write. We were writing the s
it together. So Tim and I were playing guitars together,

(22:42):
you know, a year before Shotmakers started, and we would
just like sit on our arms in my bedroom and
just kind of really just hatch out parts and have
fun and you know, really non committal. So I I
had been playing probably for about eighteen months before I
was in Shotmaker, but yeah, shot Maker was my first

(23:04):
real band for sure.

Speaker 3 (23:05):
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like I mean, because I presume that most of the
touring you were doing, especially at that age, was like
in the summers, like when you weren't in school, Like
you weren't actually having to drop out of school to
like play in the band, or did you like basically

(24:37):
I mean, like you said, you didn't concentrate on school
because once the band came into play, it was like, oh, yeah,
this is all I want to care about.

Speaker 3 (24:43):
How did you, I guess navigate both those things.

Speaker 4 (24:45):
We toured in the summer, so we would do six
week tours of the summer. I was always registered and
enrolled in school. But later on, like Shotmaker was around
like for three three and a half years something like that,
and later on in the band, you know time active years,
we would we would play a lot of shows, so

(25:05):
it wasn't just the tours in the summer, like we
would you know, March break, we would do like a
East Coast Canada tour or it feels like every weekend
or every other weekend we were driving down to Philly
or or you know, uh somewhere else along the seaboard
to play. So we were, you know, we were putting
in a lot of shows a year. I couldn't guesstimate

(25:28):
how many, but like it wasn't just condensed to those
touring periods, it was we were we were playing like
every weekend for sure. So uh, that's why high school
seemed kind of hard. I would be knocking off of Friday,
so I could you know, get in the car and
drive down to a show in Philadelphia or something like that,
you know, or Detroit or you know, all the all

(25:49):
the places that are kind of close to the Canadian border.
We would we would kind of jump and play a
lot of shows there as well as places in Canada.
You know, we'd be playing in Toronto or Montreal or
those places as well. So how did I juggle it?
I don't know, always registered in school, you know, got
through it. But yeah, the majority of the long tours

(26:11):
were in the summer and those were all It's such
a different time, like going back to I mean you've
mentioned it a couple of times that the pre internet days,
you know, our tours, we we got this book called
Book Your Own fucking Life by Maximum Rock and Roll,
and it was basically an alphabetical list of venues from

(26:33):
state to state and city to city. And so Tim
and I like I took you know, the south of
the States and the western seaboard, and Tim took the
North of the States and the Eastern seaboard, and we
split everything up and we just called and you know,
sent demo tapes into promoters and you know, booked our
first tour that way. So it was it was playing shows,

(26:57):
but it was also like promoting the music at getting
the music out there. You know, we were rehearsing like
at least three times a week, sometimes more so. Yeah,
it really took took all all of my h Yeah,
school took a backseat for sure.

Speaker 2 (27:13):
Yeah, right right, And when you I know that obviously
the band you know, collectively relocated to Ottawa in order
for you And was that after you had finished high
school or was that like you were still in school.

Speaker 4 (27:29):
I was still in school, so that was that would
have been grade eleven for me. Okay, and Tim, our
guitar player, was studying at journalism program at Carlton University.
And you know, we we loved Attawa. We had played
there quite a lot. We had a good There was
a great punk scene in Autawa, like great punk scene,

(27:53):
a lot of fantastic people like Sean Scallen. There was
a new space called five Arlington that had just started out.
You know, Janna c Lorraine from Union of Uranus was there,
like all these amazing people, and our guitar player was
going to university. Then we're like, let's just go, let's
move to Ottawa. Let's let's figure this out. So Matt

(28:15):
and I the drummer and I got a like a
small apartment and Tim got a you know, was living
in the dormitory at school or residence whatever it's called.
And we we moved to Ottawa. I resisted in high
school and uh I finished my last two years of
high school in Ottawa.

Speaker 3 (28:33):
Yeah, got it?

Speaker 2 (28:35):
And were you like you said, so you were just
basically like living together, you know, with with the band
and essensibly just being like I am literally on my
own like it's not to say that your were cut
off from your parents or anything like that, but you
were just on this adventure.

Speaker 4 (28:52):
Yeah. Yeah, we were all at one hundred percent in yeah.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
Yeah. And I mean you mentioned some of the you
know bands like you know You and you of your
and I know, like a lot of interesting things were happening.
I mean not only in Montreal, but you know, I
know with Sean and everything that was happening in Ottawa,
because Ottawa was always at least from what I've noticed
on the outside, and like playing some shows there throughout
the years shout out to club saw the the idea

(29:20):
of that scene in particular was always you know, more
indie rock leaning as opposed to like, you know, the
heavier sides of either Toronto or Montreal. When you guys
started to establish yourselves there, like did you feel that
kind of like you know, college town vibe for lack
of a better term.

Speaker 4 (29:42):
I yes, I know what you're talking about. And so
so Sean would do like good shows at at you know,
through the university, but in in big, big sort of
halls like Porter Hall at the University. But he would
put on like Fugazi and things. So like you know
those larger format venues that are kind of college town,

(30:06):
but you know, he would put on good music. But
I think what what made the real shift for that
was five Arlington. So five Arlington was a you know,
a small space. It was you know, just run by punks.
People lived there. It was also you know, sold records,
sold scenes. People rehearsed there. I think we rehearsed there

(30:27):
for a little bit too, and lots and lots of shows,
and that venue really changed that dynamic. That venue was
really yeah, it only yeah, it was very much so
punk hardcore music of that time, and you know, all
the bands coming out of there like Uranus ocara Us.

(30:51):
That was our that was our orbit. That was really
our orbit. That's where we hung out, that's where we
spent time. A lot of us rehearsed there. It was
it was kind of the heartbeat. So I think I
think that venue shifted that college town context you're talking about.

Speaker 2 (31:09):
Yeah, And I think it was too, probably when you
started to bounce off of one another as far as
like you know, playing those shows and having all of
these different inputs and bands coming from out of town
and playing, like you said, kind of at the beginning
of the conversation, just the energy and you being able
to like have these different inputs not only musically, was

(31:32):
then you know, it created more momentum in that scene.

Speaker 4 (31:35):
I'm sure one hundred percent it was this. It was
the zeitgeist. It was you know, things were happening and
people were responding to it and we were building something together.
It wasn't you know one. Yeah, there was multiple influences
coming into it, for sure.

Speaker 3 (31:52):
Yeah, you guys.

Speaker 2 (31:54):
Also it seemed to me, I mean even though the
band only existed for you know, three and a half years,
which you know, in kid time feels like four hundred
years or whatever. But not to rip off the band
name from that same genre, but you had a very
workhorse like attitude where it's like, like you said, you
would sometimes practice twice a day, and you know, there

(32:14):
there was that discipline that it seemed like you really
focused on and I know that there was enjoyment out
of that, but you had that workhorse nature to it.
Was that just kind of like hard baked in you
guys since the get go, or was that something where
you're like, oh, we want to take it seriously, so
of course we're going to dedicate more time to it.

Speaker 4 (32:37):
It was heard baked into us. It was never our
intention to like work so hard to make it big
or any thing. It was more it was more for
the music. I mean, we were generally like we would
derive so much pleasure from writing music and just you know,
making something. It was the creative process, it was. It

(32:59):
was a The creative process is addictive, and that's that's
what drove us to you know, rehearse a lot. That's
what drove us. And you know, it's like this double
edged story because the more you tour and the more
you perform, you know, they say like one live show
is worth ten you know, ten practices or something, right,
you would get tighter and you would you would play

(33:21):
off of each other's dynamics more, you know, the more
you play live and then the you know, you come
back and you rehearse and you'd write different types of songs.
You'd write tighter songs, you'd write different melodies. So it
was just this perfect storm. And I think that's what
we really tapped into, is just the creative process. That
was the drive for us. That was the workhorse driver.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
Talking about Yeah, and I think it's the reason I
found that you know, so interesting and kind of emblematic
of a lot of bands, like of that particular era
where it was like, you know, sometimes the only things
that you could look for as far as you know,
totem or historical reference points where it's like, oh yeah,

(34:03):
like I could you know, read about black flag rehearsing
like you know, forty times.

Speaker 3 (34:07):
A week or whatever. You be like, oh, maybe we
can do.

Speaker 2 (34:10):
Some version of that. But it's like, yeah, if you're
just you know, soaking up the energy from one another, You're.

Speaker 3 (34:15):
Like, why would we not practice twice a day?

Speaker 4 (34:17):
Like of course totally totally yeah.

Speaker 2 (34:21):
And once you started to, you know, like play shows
and obviously like get out there in front of people.
I mean you being the you know, vocalist. I know
everybody obviously contributed, but you know there was a nature
of you being front and center. Were you comfortable with
that or did you have to I guess kind of
like learn how to be comfortable with that.

Speaker 4 (34:42):
It didn't bother me in the in the slightest. I mean,
it's it's funny because like even now teaching like I
teach in like I'm a professor, I you know, teach
art to university students, and you know, I get I
get nervous before I go in and do something like that,
but when you're doing it, it's like you forget all
of that. You just you just come alive and animate.

(35:04):
And I think I think doing shot Maker as young
as I did really prepared me well for for you
know what I do now, even like, which is you know,
essentially performing. You know, you you go up and you
you play, you feel the music, you you open up,
and time kind of stops for a while and you

(35:27):
you go through this this this creative outlet, right and uh,
the world stops and you just perform. And that's that's
what I did, and that's kind of you know, what
I learned through shot Maker is you know, to really
take hold of the opportunity and that that that time
that you have and and just just perform your best.

(35:48):
And and I love that about shot Maker. I mean
it was, it was it was my most important education
as a young person is being in that band for sure.

Speaker 3 (35:57):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
Well, and I know that many people that I've had
discussions with on this show would articulate the idea of
exactly what you're speaking about, where you just learned these
things that you're not ever, you know, writing down where
it's like the moment that you transact on you know,
a T shirt, Like you're learning about profit and laws,

(36:19):
statements and like all these things where you're like, no,
I don't I wasn't thinking about it in those terms,
but like technically, I guess I was like just understanding
how you're putting all these building blocks together.

Speaker 4 (36:30):
Yeah, it's like do we have gas or do we
eat exactly right? Right?

Speaker 2 (36:35):
And that dovetails nicely into you know, what you were
talking about as far as like the long tours you
guys did you know in the US and playing all
over the country. From that side of things, I know
that you were obviously living to your point, very hand
to mouth where it was like, oh yeah, we're maybe
getting paid, you know, fifty to one hundred bucks a
show at the most, and you know, subsisting on whatever

(36:59):
was happening from a sales perspective as well, And I
know you were obviously playing a lot of unconventional venues
and you know definitely just like passing the jar around
shows and stuff like that was you know, were you
just like simply you know, surviving off of you know,
top ramen that you were stealing from you know, gas
stations or whatever. Was it very like I guess, fraught

(37:21):
from that side of things or were you not even
paying attention to that.

Speaker 4 (37:25):
I haven't thought about this many years, and I love this.
Before like we took a Coleman, a little Coleman stove
with us, and before we left, I remember we would
all like we all had a shopping list and I
picked up two cases of top Ramen noodles and you
know Tim would get the baked beans, and you know
it just felt like stand by me in a way,

(37:46):
like collecting all this stuff for our trip, right, you know,
we you know, some of the people we met taught
us how to you know, go to the back of
bakeries and you know, fine fine good bread that was
thrown out because it was past this expiry. You know,
it's a day old, and and so you know, we

(38:06):
did a bit of big old upster diving and things
like that. I would say, to tell you the truth,
like the community of people that we met touring were
just amazing, and they they built this that time, Like
in that time, they built this nature of generosity and
friendship that I've never experienced. So anywhere we went and

(38:31):
played a show. There was you know, home cook vegan
meals waiting for us. There was like there was real
generosity and support. It wasn't just like showing up at
a venue playing and leaving like there was. There was
more like there was a real there was a real
music movement happening, and it was it was very for

(38:52):
people and not for profit and very very real and
very authentic, and it was beautiful. And so we didn't
really worry about if we were going to eat or
not because we were always it always just worked out.
I mean, we kept an eye on the gas, the
gas tank a little bit more right because you know,
we were driving long distances, like you know, sometimes twelve

(39:14):
hours to the next show, and yeah, we would we
would get you know, fifty to two hundred dollars per show,
depending what show we were playing. But we did something
pretty cool with our merch, like our T shirts, Like
we sell them like really inexpensively, like five dollars a shirt,
but we like the word got out like people could

(39:36):
just bring their own shirts and we just had our
silk screen with us and we were just silt screaming
people's T shirts in the back of the van. You know,
so you can bring a jacket and you can bring
you know, anything you wanted and have a silk screen.
So that that's kind of what we did. And then
we would you know, go to the value village and
just pick up like every type of shirt you could find.
And and you know, so we weren't buying like these

(39:58):
brand new shirts. We were repurposing shirts, and we used
to sell a ton of shirts. Not really that really helps.
I know you mentioned the merch, but that that piece
of the merch really helps, you know, being in control
of the production of it and having that sol screen
with us at that time, so that was a big,
a big help. Obviously, selling records always helps to But yeah,

(40:19):
I don't know. I think I think we kept an
eye on the gas tank more than anything, and the
food just ended up working out, right.

Speaker 2 (40:26):
Yeah, No, And I love I the relic of that
time period. I mean, it definitely existed in the early
two thousands as well as far as like what you're
talking about with the idea of you know, silk screening
shirts at shows or people just obviously buying blanks at
a you know, not even blanks, but just shirts from
thrift stores and being like, oh yeah, I mean.

Speaker 4 (40:48):
Laura schwas Ginger Rail shirt with the back Yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:52):
Totally, totally.

Speaker 2 (40:54):
So yeah, no, I definitely there's a band called Yafa
Coto from out here, and I definitely have like a
Italian restaurant T shirt with the yaf At codo logo
on the back or whatever. But yeah, so funny where
you're just like, wait, what.

Speaker 3 (41:06):
The hell is this?

Speaker 2 (41:07):
But like people that know no and they're You're like,
that's even cooler than you know, obviously, just like a
random person wearing a misfit shirt or whatever. I'm gonna
guess like when you started to tour and you started
to notice like these these pockets of uh, you know,
places where people were either already familiar with your music
or were just like really you know, embraced what you

(41:29):
guys were doing. You know, where were those pockets that
you started to notice, you know, beyond obviously, I know
you've articulated this in other places where there's nothing that
is sweeter than the hometown show after you've you know,
played for six weeks to places that people are just like, God,
this band sucks. I don't want to I don't know,
maybe to do with them or whatever where were pockets

(41:50):
like in the states, if you noticed anything, you.

Speaker 4 (41:55):
Know, the first tour was like we were just really
finding our feet and find our sound. So I think
the second and third tour we really really responded well
to like the Eastern Seaboard, like New York, Philly, DC,
and even you know, down like the Carolinas, like the

(42:18):
music went over really well. I don't know. It's hard
to I had such a good experience through all of
the states. I don't know, because even like the opposite,
like Chicago and Wisconsin, and you know, all those places
in that area, like the mid Midwest, like the music
really did well. And even down south like Texas, you know,

(42:42):
the music did really well. So I that's a really
hard question to answer. I don't feel like we played
California quite a lot too, and I don't I don't.
I'm not sure California was the Maybe because the population
is so dense and there's so much going on all
the time, that might have felt a little less receptive

(43:04):
at that time, But that could have changed the last
couple of years, because like I know, you brought up
Ebolition records and you're you know, your love of that,
like we we'd stay with Kent mccleard at his house,
and you know, they would put on shows for us,
and and that those were always really well received too.
So I I don't know, actually, you know, it just

(43:25):
that's a hard question to answer. I think I think
we were everywhere was kind of amazing and people were
amazing everywhere we went, and it wasn't super critical of
it at that time, but I just I have fall
memories of everywhere in the States, like like, there was
always someone that made it excellent. There was always a
good conversation, there was always a good band we were

(43:47):
playing with. Uh, there was always someone who's so nice
to us, offering us a combination or so, yeah, that's
that's hard. I'm not I'm not sure. But we did
go to the Eastern Seaboard, mostly because being an Autawa,
you know, it's a straight shot down to you know, Philly,
New yor those kind of places.

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Speaker 3 (44:49):
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(45:13):
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now on the shot of moments, especially from a touring perspective,

(45:34):
where it's like there usually there is one you know,
redemptive thing about every show, whether it's like it doesn't
matter maybe if you played that well or you've sold
a lot of merch or whatever. Like it's just those
little moments of like, oh, man, like you know, the
vegan chili was really good, you know in Milwaukee, like
just something that you can latch onto. And then it

(45:55):
kind of you know, coats everything with that, like yeah,
of course you're gonna look everything through rose colored glasses
with you know, the older you get and the perspective
starts to lean in. But just that idea of you know,
finding something of value that you were just like, I
can't believe him out here doing this.

Speaker 3 (46:11):
This is crazy.

Speaker 4 (46:13):
Yeah. I think one year, and I think it might
have been our first year we played, and I think
it was Sacramento, California, and we played two shows in
one day, and the first show was an afternoon show
and then the second show. I think it I could
be mistaken, but I think it was a person from
a conno Christ's house and and maybe John Henry West

(46:36):
was playing, and my mind was just blown. And there
was like vegan burritos going around, and you know what
I mean, like all these all these stories and and
like going on tour, you never knew what you were
going to encounter, right, And and I love that. I
loved the I love the surprise of it all. Like
you knew the bands you were going to play with,
but you didn't you didn't know the depth of the

(46:58):
people that were going to be there and the experience
instance you would have. And it was just this never
ending kind of experience that just got deeper and better,
you know, as we as we played more and as
we did more shows and more tours. Yeah mm hmm.

Speaker 2 (47:14):
And considering there was no logical case, I mean you've
you know, said it obviously any earlier in the interview
of the fact that there was no idea of being like, oh, yes,
like we're gonna make it big, and we're obviously there's
you know, there's no roadmap, like even you know now
where you know, punk and hardcore and whatever else is
like the largest it ever has been, you know, in

(47:36):
the nineties like clearly that was not you know, a roadmap,
unless you were obviously like green Day or ransid or
whatever at that particular juncture. I presume that, like when
you were coming home, you're obviously just like you know,
going back to school, you know, working at local bagel
shops or whatever, just you know, probably just trying to
put two and two together in order to get enough
gas for you know, the next tour or whatever.

Speaker 4 (47:58):
Percent.

Speaker 2 (47:59):
Yeah, and what were you you personally like as you
were coming home, because you know, you were a few
years younger, and were you actually like trying to go
to college as well, or were you just primarily focused
on the band.

Speaker 4 (48:12):
I was still in high school up until the band
just you know broke up, So I, yeah, I would
come back. I remember the best thing I would do
after every tour, it's just taken bath by myself for hours,
just right to take some time because I'm a bit
of an introvert and you're always around people when you're

(48:34):
you know, touring, And I just remember coming back and decompressing,
and then it was like nothing happened. Then you just
start practicing again, start playing shows again on the weekends,
you know, start thinking about your next tour, start thinking
about your next you know, trying to get together ten
ten songs, to think about a sequence for a record.

(48:54):
Like the recordings too, like they we didn't have much money, right,
so so even even looking back at this re release,
we did Now, like Jesus man, if I could turn
back the clock a bit and just take more time
with the recordings and you know, found more money to
spend more time in the studios, I would do it

(49:16):
in a heartbeat because it's we were such a such
a live band with such a big sound, and I
think we did an okay job of capturing it with
with the recordings, but I I think so much more
could have been done with them and the lack of
money we you know, we would go into the graveyard,
shift to a studio, you know, record from midnight to

(49:39):
five in the morning, and do that for two days
and put out a record, right like that was it?
Like uh, you know, ten ten hours in the studio
maybe with mixing, like you know, you get your album
done and and that's it, Like it's it. Yeah, that's
that's the one thing I I kind of I just

(50:00):
it wasn't the time though, I Mean, we didn't have
the money. No one had the money. Studios were these
things for you know, labels and the elite. It was
really no one had pro tools at their house. You know,
you had to you had to rely on an engineer.
And we also didn't like at that time, we were
recording on to two inch tape, but we couldn't afford

(50:22):
our own reels, so we we would rent the tape
from the studio and then they would kind of you know,
after that was done, they would wipe it. I guess
I'm not sure, right, Yeah, we recorded back then.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
Yeah, absolutely, I mean tape was the most expensive thing.
Like when you were recording, it was like you know, yes,
of course you were paying for the engineer's time, but
then you would be like, oh my gosh, you'd like,
you know, out of the six hundred bucks, like four
hundred because the tape, like.

Speaker 4 (50:49):
Wow, Yeah, they would just let us rent it and
then we would master to whatever we'd master to and
they would just wipe the tape because you can rerecord
over that tape million times and not have an equality loss.

Speaker 3 (51:02):
I suppose, yeah, for sure.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
And when you guys started to you know, interact with you,
I'll put this in big air quotes as far as
like the music industry, you know, like once you started
to work with you know, the record labels like Great
Great American, Stake, Religion and Trouble Man, I know those
were obviously friends of yours. So it wasn't like you
were working with you know, some big, bad major label
or anything like that. But as you guys started to

(51:25):
you know, transact with the music business as it were,
was that something that you were you know, generally comfortable
with or was that something.

Speaker 3 (51:33):
Where it was like, oh, this is weird.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
We got to deal with money and all this stuff
like this, like I don't, you know, we just want
to play in a band.

Speaker 4 (51:40):
I think we were young and probably naive and didn't
didn't overthink it, and it worked out well for most
of the records we did, so I think like none
of them were money making ventures, right. It was it
was all like, God, let's press two thousand records and

(52:02):
because we're going on tour and see if we can
sell them, and you know, do do mail order distribution
and these things. So it was very much of just
working working with your friends and it almost being like
a collaboration of sorts, like they put up the money
and you kind of put up the work to help
get the records out, so it wasn't overthought. I think we,

(52:25):
you know, the last piece with Trouble Men could have
we could have, you know, probably put a little more
thought into that because we knew Mike, but we didn't
know them well. And you know, but they all the
all the other records were great. So one of our
good good friends who really was pivotal and instrumental in

(52:46):
getting us out there, Dariah Hayes. He put out our
first you know forty five or our first two forty five's,
and from there, you know, we met Jannick Lorraine who
put out our first album. And then through touring we
met some great people from the States and they put

(53:07):
out as Flit with Maxima and Kobe, the Nervous Red
Kids people, and they, you know, we we got along
with them like a house on fire. So it was,
you know, they were all really small kind of labels,
just doing what we were doing at that time, which
was supporting a scene. And and yeah, I think, uh,

(53:27):
you know, the last two records went really well too,
But I I just yeah, I never I don't know.
I I think Mike's great, but I preferred working with
the other people.

Speaker 2 (53:39):
I guess, yeah, sure, And then you know, as the
band came to a close, and you know, I mean
they're obviously especially at those times it's so not volatile,
but it's just like there's a lot of times where
it's just like, oh, people are going in different directions
and it's not like there's some huge, you know, blow
up conversation, but just like all right, well, you know,

(54:01):
sometimes it just fizzles out or whatever we were you feeling,
you know, after that was ending because it was such
a you know, intense and focused time. Were you know,
you feeling kind of like a drift on what is next?
Or did you immediately want to you know, play in
other bands after that? Or what was your feeling as
that was kind of ending.

Speaker 4 (54:22):
So I think Matt and Tim say when you ask
them about how shot Maker and did, they kind of say,
none of us knew it was ending. It just kind
of ended. But like I moved, I moved to Toronto,
and I kind of I feel like I kind of
split the band up when I left, and for me,

(54:46):
it was going into the fourth summer and they well,
we weren't going to go on tour that summer and
to me, I was like, well, we're not going to
go on tour, like what like that? That's what shot
Maker is, like, we're a live band. And and I
kind of I lost interest after that, Like I didn't.
I don't think I was interested in I don't know why.

(55:08):
It seems so like I was young, and maybe it
was just a a decision I should have taken more
time with. But I you know, I moved to Toronto.
I wasn't really interested if we weren't going to go
on tour. I wasn't interested in sticking around kind of thing.
And when I moved to Toronto, I started playing in
other bands I played. I replaced a bass player in

(55:31):
this band called Venus Kirezol for a while. But then
I really got into visual art and did my did
my undergraduate degree then graduate degree in visual arts. So
I I kind of knew that's what I wanted to do.
And I think having my background and I think I know,
having a background in music just really transferred those skills

(55:56):
so well to making art and understanding abstraction and understanding
a mode of charge with ideas. Yeah, music really set
me up for you know, the headspace of visual art,
the visual art world.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
Yeah yeah, absolutely, well, especially too where it's like when
you participate in creative endeavors at a young age, whether
it's you know, playing an instrument, whether it's taking photos
or whatever, it's like all of it just kind of
you know, bruise in this creative stew and then only
later on in life are you able to understand like,

(56:32):
oh yes, like all of these things I put on
top of each other led me to the point of
being like, oh yeah, I think I can do this
visual art thing or whatever.

Speaker 4 (56:40):
Absolutely yeah. Yeah. And Matt and Tim actually stayed on
together and played in bands, yeah bands, three Opera.

Speaker 3 (56:50):
Three Penny Opera. Yeah, yeah, oh for sure.

Speaker 4 (56:52):
After so they they they very much stayed on together.
But I I left, I left the city, I left shop.

Speaker 3 (57:00):
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (57:02):
And how was your experience, like, you know, as you were,
you know, growing up and obviously entering the you know,
professional workforce and doing everything that you have been doing,
you know since the band, uh, you know broke up,
Like did you stay connected to music, Like do you
still you know, care about that side of things? I mean,
I know, do you obviously care about the music that

(57:23):
you created? A chop maker but what was your relationship
with you know, the more independent music stuff as you
were growing up.

Speaker 4 (57:30):
I mean when when I left, I really I was
focusing on a visual arts practice. So I've had a
like a long career of museum and exit museum and
gallery exhibitions sort of internationally and internet nationally and internationally,
and I've been you know, teaching ever since. So I

(57:51):
I always found creativity in my life and I've always
Music's always been a big part of that. A lot
of the projects I write, if they're films or large installations,
I'll you know, write into the project and the budget
that I'll you know, write a score for the piece.
So I yeah, I mean, music's Music's always with me.

(58:15):
If your question was more like did I keep up
with following bands and going to shows? I mean somewhat,
but not like my my focus was kind of you
know redirected into into, uh, into making making objects and images.

Speaker 3 (58:32):
Really yeah, yeah, oh for sure.

Speaker 2 (58:35):
And it's like it's not you know, disparaging people as
they you know, evolve and looking or finding their inspiration
in other places. But it's just like, you know, sometimes
that is just always a part of like, oh yeah,
maybe I go to one or two shows a year,
but like I'm always you know, it's always lingering in
my head.

Speaker 4 (58:54):
I think, you know, I think when I moved to Toronto,
I I was in a couple of bands, probably for
you know, a few years after that, actually three bands
for a few years after that, but nothing like shot Maker,
as I was saying before we had this chemistry between
the three of us. It really clicked and worked well.

(59:15):
And the bands I was in in Toronto were you know,
they were fine, but it never clicked with me. It
never it never felt the same and it wasn't it
wasn't as engaging to me. And I don't know, I
don't know why, but it wasn't as interesting to me

(59:37):
for some reason. So yeah, yeah, I know that all means.

Speaker 2 (59:42):
But no, I totally understand what you're saying. It's like,
I mean, would you try, would you try to do
other creative things? And then like it just doesn't feel
like the thing that you know.

Speaker 3 (59:53):
Either grew up with or so comfortable with.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
It's just like, I mean, this is fine, but it's
just not the thing I really enjoyed doing.

Speaker 3 (59:59):
So yeah, get that.

Speaker 2 (01:00:01):
Yeah, A few last things the I guess the largest
show that you know you probably played was maybe like
you know, whatever opening for Fugazi or something like that.
But you know, is there a show that sticks out,
you know, a show or two that sticks out in
your brain as far as being like, oh, yeah, like
this was such a big audience and you know, something

(01:00:22):
that we never experienced before, playing you know, in a
piece of shop in front of fifty people, which was
also great, but you know what was the uh the
larger shows that you played that stick out in your brain.

Speaker 4 (01:00:34):
I guess you kind of nailed it with Fugazi. I
mean Montreal Fugazi probably you know, three thousand people. I'm
guestimating probably something like that. But that's you know, huge,
like huge, Yeah, sure, and you know, on a big
on a big stage, and we were we were not

(01:00:55):
big stage people, but it was exciting. I mean, we
were more used to like hearing our hearing our amps
fill up the space, and those shows were very much
about having a pa fill up the space. So yeah,
I guess I guess it was. It was exciting for us,

(01:01:15):
but uh, I I would actually I preferred playing small
venues with the apps kind of warming up the space.
I preferred I preferred the just it was all about
people for me. Like when I was asking a question
last night we did this, uh this listening party, and
I was asked a question like what are you what

(01:01:36):
were the favorite show or what was your favorite show
you ever played? I just think any any of the
shows were policy at three because you know, we accidentally
we kind of ended up lining up on a tour
schedule with them one year and which just became the
best friends and you like your friends and you support
your friends, and like, any of those shows to me

(01:01:59):
would like, yeah, far far standout as more meaningful than
you know, playing with fugas to three thousand people in Montreal. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:02:09):
Sure, well, and especially when you developed that you know,
uh sister band relationship where it's like, you know, you
then feel like you're part of the same pirate ship
traveling around the country and it's just like it's indescribable,
even though you could be playing.

Speaker 3 (01:02:23):
In front of five people, but it's just like, oh no,
but we're all here. It's great.

Speaker 4 (01:02:27):
Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (01:02:30):
The when when did you, I guess recognize uh, the
you know legacy of shot Maker And I'm maybe using
that in air quotes because you know, obviously you don't
want to be too high flutin about it, but that
idea of like the shot Maker name, you know, resonating longer.
Was it like when you know, Troubleman put out the
discography or like when did you notice kind of that, like, oh,

(01:02:51):
this is weird that people are still talking about this,
you know, silly band I did for three years in
the nineties, Like this is weird.

Speaker 4 (01:02:58):
Yeah, I it was after the trouble Man discography. Like
I knew. I always knew we were special, Like I
didn't hear there was nothing that sounded like us, and
and we had this energy that you know't I hadn't
really seen and I think quite like it before. So

(01:03:18):
I knew it was on a personal level that it
was special to me. But honestly, I think just later on,
like ten fifteen years after Shopmaker broke up, like you know,
as I said, I am an artist and you know,
having solo exhibitions at galleries and places like Washington, d C.

(01:03:39):
And you're walking down the street and soone's like, were
you a Shopmaker And You're like, oh, yeah, yeah, I was,
you know, and times like that, like people notice you
and I always left it off to oh, well, we
played a lot of shows, so someone probably just recognizes me.
But you know, the younger generation, like I have some
students even that you know, they're on discogs and they're following,

(01:04:02):
you know, this kind of music and nineties music, and
you know they they're they're they know Shotmaker, and that
that kind of blows me away, you know, like the
coincidence where you know, it's ten years later and someone
might have recognized you to now it's you know, close
to thirty years later. It's thirty years the band started,
I guess thirty years ago, yeah, twenty nineteen, yeah, or

(01:04:26):
sorry sorry, nineteen ninety three to now, and and you know,
having having the new generation engaging with that music and
that that to me says something. I mean, so I
think it's I think it makes me very happy that

(01:04:47):
you know, some people are thinking the music has did
the test of time. It makes me very proud to
think of that. So I'm I'm happy that whatever the
little piece of magic that I thought we had, I'm
happy other people feel that too.

Speaker 2 (01:05:02):
Sure, And I'm sure to your point too, Like it
comes in waves where it's just like you know, like
nothing could happen then all of a sudden, it's like
you have two random experiences in one week and it's
just like oh, like that wow. And then yeah, like
you said, just these ideas, the fact that this moment
in time can be encapsulated not only in a discography,

(01:05:23):
but it's just like people could still dip into it
and find value in it, whereas like other times, you
can listen to something that you know came out in
the early nineties and be like, oh, this sounds like
you know, garbage cans being thrown down a hallway, which
I'm sure in some respects you're like, oh, yeah, like
that's where our records sound Like No, just kidd it,
but just that idea, like it can pick that person

(01:05:44):
up that is, you know, seventeen years old and like
you know, retroactively getting into all of these you know,
nineties bands.

Speaker 3 (01:05:50):
It's cool.

Speaker 4 (01:05:51):
Yeah, and Ray, you know when I started the Instagram
account and last March, so you know, not quite a
year ago, but just hearing the response, like i'd have
younger people responding to the pictures saying, oh, I heard
about you through this and I you know, I'm really
trying to find the music, and you know it was
before you know we posted anything to digital platforms like

(01:06:15):
streaming platforms, and that that kind of really stuck with
me too, Like the younger generation responding to this type
of music. I think it's I think it's great. I
really do, because a lot of this music is obscure,
and like for shop Maker, we just kind of left
it dead and buried, you know, for a long time,

(01:06:37):
until Solid Brass reached out to us and they wanted
to do something, and they really seemed like we had,
you know, several conversations and they seem like great people,
and we were like, okay, let's do it. And I
started this Instagram account and just the flood of memories
and histories and stories and people set sharing images with
me to post. It's then I guess I guess that

(01:07:03):
that really drove it home too, that like how special
this band was to other people to see their interaction
with that with the Instagram account.

Speaker 2 (01:07:11):
Yeah, how about that great discussion with Nick from shot
Maker And like I said, you need to listen to
shot Maker if you have not checked them out for
whatever reason, go to your favorite streaming service or even better,
buy their discography. There's seriously no skips, as the kids
would say, but there's a link in the show notes

(01:07:33):
to where you can visit Solid Brass Records and buy
that discography.

Speaker 3 (01:07:36):
It's a beautiful box.

Speaker 2 (01:07:37):
It puts the band in appropriate context and you kind
of see the evolution of the band over time. And
my personal favorite is their Crayon Club LP. Holy Moly,
that thing smokes. So thank you very much to Nick,
and thank you very much to Solid Brass Records for
helping put this together. Next week we're keeping it in Canada.
I have a great episode with Jesse matthews I realized

(01:08:01):
that I haven't said his name out loud, but Jesse
Matthewson plays guitar and lead vocals in Ken Mode. If
you have not listened to Ken Mode, talk about a
beast of a band. They've existed for over twenty years now,
and yeah, Jesse is just a great hang. He works
in the music industry as far as like business management
and all that sort of stuff. So we had a
ton to talk about. That's what's happening next week and

(01:08:23):
until then, please be safe, everybody.