April 17, 2023 • 55 mins
Ship Heads, prepare yourself for maximum fun, because our illustrious host has teamed up with two stellar guests, Starline Hodge and Hana Michels to talk about a game that’s truly one of a kind! Though tough to explain, the sheer joy of rolling up all of known civilization into a junk star is an unparalleled experience that deserves unpacking (and then re-packing obvs). The squad tackles deeper issues like whether this game actually means something and what’s up with dads, man? Things get personal, zany and a little poignant as we endeavor to wrap the universe of Katamari Damacy into a small hour-sized glob. Don’t miss it!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Oh listen.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
The true tragedy of this game is that there is
absolutely no way to introduce it that would be better
than the game introduces itself. This game has the greatest
introduction ever in a video game, Like I like, people
hounded me to play this game for years.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
And I was like, this looks so stupid, Like I
just don't want to do it.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Man, I'm old and I have a beard. I've had
a beard since I was born. I've always been this way.
And I played the intro and man talk about winning
somebody over on. Yeah, it's incredible. Hi, shipheads, welcome to
another episode of one Osmanship. I'm your host Adam Ganser.
(01:07):
Today Mike has gone off to sail the galaxy and
form a star cluster of his own. And with me
are two of my favorite star Warriors slash rollers. Please
introduce yourselves.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Friends.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Hi, I'm Starline Hodge. I good bye, star I'm friends.
I'm friends with you all.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
That's right, yep, that's right, old pals.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
In fact, we go all the way back to the
Overwatch episode and before that to Cracked After Hours. We've
in friends for a very long time, and my other
celestial colleague.
Speaker 5 (01:43):
I am Hannah Michaels.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
You slow rolled me. I knew you're gonna do it.
You slow rolled me.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Welcome Hannah of Pokemon snap fame or infamy.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
I guess I should say, well.
Speaker 5 (01:55):
Yeah, every time I guessed on a podcast, it's always
Hannah is a DeMont, she killed the dinosaurs, and she's
the worst human being in the world. Three stars, three stars.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
I like how many stars you got though?
Speaker 5 (02:09):
Yeah, yeah, I'm always how many stars I managed to
get with being just like Hitler.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Whatever it is, say Hitler three starts. Yeah, honestly, that
goes on your tombstone. Yeah, that's that's the review that
you get from the Afterlife.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
That's a pretty good one anyway. So glad you guys
could join me to talk about this game. So let's
roll right into this and pass our very first checkpoint,
in which we will do tell me like I'm a
bit I think you guys are You guys have been
on previous episodes, but as I said, it's a new
(02:49):
segment in which we explain to somebody who's never heard
of this game, what is it and kind of what's
it all about?
Speaker 3 (02:58):
And uh, one of you volunteered to do it? Which
one of you decided to tell everyone.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
I did Star, I did.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Oh love it all right, Star hit.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
It all right? So Katamar DEMANSI. It begins with the
King of all Cosmos getting real drunk and destroying all
the stars in Earth's solar system. And he begs his son,
but not really begs, demands that his son, this tiny
little prince of an alien, to go to Earth and
(03:32):
roll up everything he can at various different sizes so
that he could put it back in space and replace
the stars that he destroyed. And your task is you
were the prince, and you roll things up, and if
you don't do a good job, the King of all
Cosmos yells at you and is real mean. And so
(03:53):
your goal is to get your dad to love you.
And that's the game.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yep, that's rights as so gigantic, Yes, Like it's not
a small thing for.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Him to be angry at you, Like my God is
a huge man.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
And I believe there's a little like b plot of
like the Earthlings, Like there's a family you follow on
Earth who's experiencing like the chaos, the prints rolling everything up.
It's like every time you beat a level, you get
a little bit more of like this family story, but
it's not as important as you trying to get your
King Cosmos Daddy's love. That's the game.
Speaker 5 (04:32):
Yep. Yeah, and it's it's very very hard to earn
his love.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Oh really incredibly, he's very.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Very It is hard. Yeah, it is hard. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Excellent summary. Also, if you're confused about what this game is,
don't worry. You'll never understand what it is. You'll play
it and never understand, so hopefully that gives you some relief.
It's time for us to pass our very next checkpoint
and get right into the gamer rants, in which we
all three come in with our scorching hot takes, like
(05:09):
our white Dwarf takes, you know, like that kind of
that's the hottest stars?
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Am I wrong? If I don't, I could be wrong.
I don't know what the hottest star is, but let's
say it's a white Dwarf, that hot of a take.
I can go first, or if one of you has
it ready? Does anybody want to go first? Do you
want me to? No?
Speaker 4 (05:25):
You go, you take it?
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Okay, I'll go first, Okay, great, all right? Player one
Adam ganzer logging in okay, Katamari Damassy is Tetris. That
is what this is, and what I mean by that
is this is a game that is fun purely because
it figured out a mechanic and did perfectly this thing
(05:47):
that no other game has done as well. And that
mechanic is a physics engine that makes it difficult but
rewarding to collect other objects and changes the nature and
dynamic of the ball you're rolling around. It is really
that simple. It's like an evolution of those old school
like Marble madness games, if you will. And the reason
(06:10):
I call it Tetris is because Tetris is a perfect
loop that was designed so perfectly and simply that it
doesn't need more to be satisfying. And I think that
Katamari Domasi is exactly the same. It doesn't need any
more to be satisfying than just the loop that it creates.
It's such a strong loop in fact, that the game
(06:32):
never fundamentally changes. It is the same game from minute
one to minute finish, and it's fun the entire time.
It's always fun. It's that deep of a loop that
this creator made, and that's incredible in this time period,
Like it's such an amazing idea and it's one of
a kind now to add to that, part of what
(06:55):
makes it such a winsome game, like, part of the
packaging of this loop that makes it so WinCE is
that it's also very zany and silly, and it embraces that.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
It knows it's silly. It knows it's zany, it knows
that it's got a world that is.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Just sort of joyfully illogical and doesn't care to explain itself,
doesn't feel the need to explain itself. So, like, you
start as this tiny little prince who's like rolling up
a ball of like, you know, dominoes, you know, stuff
that's really small, like the paper clips and e.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Racers and stuff like that.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
Candies.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Yeah, yeah, little tiny things.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
And by the end of the game, you're rolling up
like entire neighborhoods and stuff.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
You're like, you're rolling up all.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Of human civilization and it's and it's always fun. Every
new thing that you're able to stick to the ball
as it gets bigger adds an element of fun and
it makes you laugh. And I don't know, I don't
know what genius understood that those two things were that
deep of a reservoir fun. I didn't look up who
(08:02):
made this game I should have it, but that person
is one of the greatest video game designers ever, like
one of the greatest ever. And I say that because
like they made a new toy that stands on its own.
It doesn't need a whole new thing. It doesn't need
a shiny gloss of paint. This game never needs a remix.
It just needs to be able to run as is forever.
(08:23):
Just like Tetris. They make lots of new kinds of Tetris.
They can make lots of new kinds of Katamari Domasy
and I'll play them all.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
They'll be fun. But it doesn't need to be anything
more than what it is. It is. It is a.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Contained, perfect little loop well done. It is so impressive,
and it won over my old grumpy heart.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
That is my rant.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
The creator's name is Kaita taka Hashi.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
By the way, thank you now.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
I will send that person a thank you card because
they have deserved one. You want to go next, Hana sure.
Speaker 5 (09:00):
Katamari Domici is kind of It's absurd yet relatable. If
you have workaholic parents and or roll a bunch of things,
roll a bunch of trash into a ball regularly, either
of those things very relatable game in those regards. I
(09:24):
think the absurdity really adds to the fun. And there's
some absurdity in what you can roll up and how
things react when you try to roll them up, how
people and animals react when you hit them with your
ball of everything. It's, uh, it's pretty adorable. And yeah,
(09:48):
it's a very simple mechanic that doesn't really need much.
If they did make a new game, it would basically
be the same. The cut scenes would be different, but
it would basically it would basically be the same game
with different different cut scenes. I think there is a
reroll a version that's not on uh Switch, Sorry, yeah
(10:12):
it's not on switch.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Yeah there was a sequel. The sequel I don't think
is on Switch if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
Yeah, yeah, exactly not, I'm sorry. Reroll is the a
remaster of it, the remaster of the game. Yeah, uh
forever Katamari Forever. I think it's a sequel, and yeah,
it's basically the same thing, only the king is so
you cannot wake him up. He's so black, I'm drunk.
(10:41):
You can't wake him up. So you have to create
this robot king that doesn't really work right, and is
the opposite of the real King. Instead of getting down
on you, he gets down on himself all the time.
But it's basically the same game.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Yeah, wonderful. Is that is that it is at the
end of your rant?
Speaker 5 (11:04):
Uh, yeah, pretty much. It's it's fun and simple.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
I agree with you, Okay, great star.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
My my Catamari rant is that I love how this
game gives you the power of the gods. You are
a tiny little god like rolling everybody up, doing whatever
you want essentially, and even then it's still not good enough.
I like the idea of a being that is essentially
(11:36):
all powerful in a way, and yet like it's they
are still kind of so humanized in that sense of like, no,
someone's still gonna yell at you, and even the person
yelling at you is not a perfect being. They also suck.
So it's okay to just you know, do your best
(11:57):
and like just get what you want to get done,
because I know at some point when I played the
game my goal was just to like I just want
to hit the marks, trying to overachieve for this like
King of the Cosmos, who's just gonna yell at me?
It like made me not want to do it. So
I just really Yeah, for me, it was just a
matter toward the end of the game. In the beginning,
(12:20):
I was very much trying to get all the praise.
But then just as you keep going, like those were
so far in few in between that I was just like,
you know what, I just want to succeed. I want
to be proud of me. So I like that the
game kind of kind of it. At least for me,
it reinforced that. And yeah, I like that, like you're
(12:41):
this all powerful being and you're still just like I
just I'm just trying to do my best. That's so much,
my little rant.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
I love it so much. I love this. I love you.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Guys both said things I could never have said because
just the things that you connect about it or things
that I haven't even thought about.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
So I love it. I love it so much. I'll
tell you what. Let's get into it after we roll
up just a tiny little neighborhood, just real quick, roll
up a neighborhood, take a little break, get a couple
of ads in our system, and then come back and
you know, we'll take on most of Silver Lake after
the break.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Okay, get ready Echo Park because we're back and we're
about to roll up most of that overpriced real estate.
Get prepared. Let's pass our next checkpoint and get right
into game on.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
And I kind of.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Wanted to ask you guys both a question. Now, I
normally don't do this, but I'm just sort of curious
because mostly because you guys haven't been on the show
since we went to iHeart, but also I think it's
just fun for everybody. Can you guys each named a
few of your favorite games?
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Like what?
Speaker 5 (13:58):
Like?
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Just give me a sense of like the games you
gravitate toward. Oh yeah, maybe, Hannah, I'll put it on
you first, a couple of your favorite games.
Speaker 5 (14:10):
I mean, I do like your game Nemesies, which are
turn based strategy games. I know, I know they're evil. Yeah, yeah,
I really enjoyed Inscription, and I like Pokemon.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah Pokemon okay great? But but Mario Kart, right, aren't
you into like Mario Party?
Speaker 5 (14:33):
I love racing and fighting games, so they're simple and fun,
and I love those as well.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Yeah, you're a sole Caliber.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
In fact, you stream often Sole Caliber, in which you
play a sexualized horse person.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (14:46):
I wish I could get back to that. Yeah, it
was Boldo's move so too, which is always fun.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
You could get back to that sexualized horse person streaming place.
It is a great place. I completely understand. Okay, great Starr,
What about you? What are some of the games that
you gravitate toward.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
Okay, so I have at least I have four Overwatch one,
not Overwatch two. Overwatch two is kind of horseshit right now.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
I was gonna ask you about that. Okay, great, but.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
Overwatch one Kingdom Hearts love that weird shit. It's just weird. Yeah,
oh man, what did I just I just had it.
I was Overwatch Kingdom Hearts Portal, the Portal series, absolutely
love and adoring that. And more recently, I've been playing
(15:38):
Breath of the Wild, oh yeah, and Horizon Horizon Zerra
Down those those are my Jamy Horizon, mostly for the
crazy Apocalypse story. I think it's just really well told.
And for Breath of the Wild just currently, like I
(15:59):
don't know, it's just it's almost relaxing, like it's just
a beautiful game and it's just chill, and I like helping,
like I like all the little side quests as I
go along, and I like that you can kind of
just do whatever you want.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Okay, yeah, I think I Actually that is also why
I love Breath of the Wild more than the major
overarching narrative pieces of it that people like. I like
the chill out game vibe of it. I totally agree
with you on that. So people who've been listening to
podcasts know a litany of games that I'm into, But
(16:34):
in general, in general, I tend to like the Triple
A first person shooters, and I do like Breath the Wild.
I do, I do, Like you know, Red Dead, La
Noir is kind of rocketing up one of my favorite games.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Yeah. Also, the Resident Evils are kind of rocketing up
my list the more I play them. But I play
many many games, as you know.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
And the reason I'm bringing this up at all is
that this game, I think, managed to get all of
us into it for entirely different reasons, and none of
us are exactly the esthetic of this game, Like I
feel like they're I don't know who I think this
game is designed for aesthetically, but I would say like
none of us are an exact fit for what this is.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Is that unfair?
Speaker 6 (17:21):
Right?
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Like? If? It?
Speaker 4 (17:22):
Yeah, it kind of reminds me of more of like
a mobile game, like if you a game that you
would have on your phone, which I don't, yes, realize that, yes,
that also counts as gaming, but I don't think about
my phone games when I'm thinking of like, oh, what
games do I like?
Speaker 3 (17:36):
You know, right, phone games sort of occupy forgiving how
phone games occupy an interesting real estate, which is usually
filling time when you're doing something else mm hmm, you know,
and like right now, we still think of video games,
although I think Switch is changing this a little bit
as being like an activity in itself, you know, like
(17:57):
it's like I now I'm gonna go play video game.
That's the thing I'm doing. Yes, and mobile games are
kind of not that interesting, Hanna. Do you feel like
this game fits neatly into any of our aesthetics or like,
do you feel like it was designed for you or
that it's weird that you like it?
Speaker 5 (18:12):
I think the absurdism was kind of designed for all
of us. But yeah, the gameplay I or the graphics
or any other element of this game. I don't think
that you could necessarily point to any one of us
that would resonate with it. We just happened to all
like it.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Well, I would say we didn't all just happen to
I would say it's actually that's how good it is
that it can sort of get past the kinds of
games you would like and draw you in because it's tone.
There are very few games that are like purely joyful,
(18:53):
very very few, and the ones that do it are,
you know, great games when they really achieve. And I
think that's one of the reasons why we all love
Mario games so much, is that they're actually joyful.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Yes, and this game is joyful.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
You I mean, you guys talked about the plot in
a way that's funny because I never even thought about
the plot. But the tone of it is pretty joyful,
wouldn't you agree.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Yeah, you're you're a little man just trying to trying
to save the universe in a real weird way. But
ultimately yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Like.
Speaker 6 (19:25):
It's like, yeah, you're like you're saying to the universe,
but you're also just like rolling up chairs and cats stuff,
Like you're just adding people's lives to this little like
glava goo that you're pushing around.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Like maybe we haven't even described very clearly exactly what
this game is.
Speaker 5 (19:43):
You're harnessing the power of gravity in a very specific way.
To stick eventually very large objects on this tiny little ball.
But at first, you know, the gravity as a force
is proportional. It will only you will only be able
to roll up the things that are smaller than that
tiny little ball that you start with.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
And so there's a puzzle to every single level in
this game. And the puzzle is how can I, before
time runs out, get the ball big enough to capture
all the main objects in it so that they all
roll up into my little you know, star bundle. And
because you like, you can't just roll go up to
the biggest thing and have it stick, like you need
(20:28):
to have enough mass in the ball that you're rolling
up to get the bigger objects to stick to it,
you know. And it's a very simple puzzle, like that's
the same puzzle every time, but it's, uh, it does
require a little bit of thought. Like it's not a
thoughtless game. It's you can't turn your brain off entirely, no,
I still need to pay attention to it.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
And the music definitely keeps you hooked in because it's
absolutely delightful. The soundtrack. I still listen to the soundtrack
when I'm cleaning.
Speaker 5 (20:58):
It's good cleaning music that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Oh that would be good cleaning me.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
It's like you're like, man, I really I really got
to tackle a room and yeah I'm moncy soundtrack and
you're like, I'm right back in it, and.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah, yeah, it kind of gets your heart rate up.
But it's also like, but I'm having fun. It's uh,
it's what I imagine cocaine is. Like I can't say, but
it's what I imagine. It's like, Uh, okay, Hannah, tell me
a little bit about why if you what you said
something about if you were a kid whose parents weren't
(21:35):
around or something.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
Like parents were workaholics. Yeah, absolutely nothing is ever good
enough for the dead in this game, and the rest
of your life, much like, uh, the rest of your
gaming experience with Katamari will be making peace with that.
And just like Star was saying, just making yourself.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Proud, that's great, you guys both can to that.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Like I just find that incredible, Like because I didn't
even I didn't give a shit what the guy said.
I was like, hey, I'm just getting the ball. It's
all good.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
But you guys both really connected to this dad's story.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
I mean, like I have I have like Daddy issues.
So it's it hit me in a very strange like, oh,
like suddenly like this father figure you know, is just
like very demanding when in like my actual life, my
father was not around. So I was just like, who
the fuck are you? And I also still like, you know,
(22:31):
like that little kid men tell me I want I
want adults to like me. And so you're instantly in
this game being told as a little kid you're not
good enough. And there was like a weird mix of
like what do you but I did what you told
me to do. I don't what what.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Do you want for me? I make it the best star,
It's got all the good stuff in it.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
I did it. I did it in the time. What
do you mean it's not big enough? I don't.
Speaker 5 (22:58):
Specific tests? Yeah, and when you actually do it perfectly,
like with the crab one and I got like one
hundred something crabs and I got a response that was yuck,
too crabby, And it's like, what what you asked for? Crabs?
You literally ask for crabs?
Speaker 3 (23:18):
You chaotic, rollheaded fuck like just like live my life. Uh,
it's so this is I'm sorry. I don't mean to
laugh at your pain. Please forgive me if that's how
this is coming off. I'm just it just thrilled so.
Speaker 5 (23:32):
Much laughs it laughs at like productivity, guilt and pain,
and it's it's great for that.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yeah, I actually think there's something sort of deeply profound
about that that like the game kind of uh trivializes
it in a way that makes the act more meaningful,
Like it like how do I say this without getting
too philosophical, Like it's almost like, well, it's almost like
(23:59):
in a way, you're sort of rolling up the concern
for those kinds of things, like it's equally artificial and
also sort of sticks to this ball that you can
dispose of at the end, because at the end, all
you really have is the thing that you made. You know,
like his approval kind of doesn't change what happens in.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
The game, m you know what I exactly So like
in a way that like there's something and there's a
lot of like little clues that the family life of
the universe is a little bit fractured here, and you're
actually sort of disposing of that, like you're sort of
this is a very silly version, but you're sort of
(24:37):
like purifying the galaxy, if you will, of all this
extraneous stuff that doesn't need to be there, you know
what I mean, Like, I mean, that might be a
little bit too poetic of a rendering of what this
game is about, But I don't think it's not there.
Have I gone too far? Hannah? Have I reached through
the stars and fallen short?
Speaker 5 (24:57):
I don't think so. I think that because the framework
is so simple, it allows for that kind of interpretation inherently,
and I think it probably knows that. Yeah, And because
the framework is so overreaching, while the gameplay is so simple,
it does touch on a lot of absurdities in our lives.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Yeah, I want to read some of the quotes that
you get from the King of Cosmos. So like if
you barely achieve something in like with your star, he'll
say something like, we'll force this into a constellation, but
make it, but do it fresher next time. Or while
(25:42):
you're playing, sure, yeah, while you're playing. Sometimes he'll just
say like, perk up, lose your prints, but why why
would you do that? Or he'll just be like is
your body green yellow? Make up your mind already? Which,
by the way, as a little prince, you are like
a green yellow like tennis ball colored little alien man.
Oh my god, yeah, he goes, ah, you're so so small,
(26:08):
You're as small as ever you like, just it's just
the mean asshole dad. He sucks.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
I guess he does suck.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
I always yeah, man, I just blew right past this,
Like I never really thought about it.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
I was like, that's funny.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Uh so for real, Like I always thought the King
of All Cosmos, well that's stupid.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
That's literally all I ever thought about it.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
And now I'm like, man, I really considering what this
game is about in a new way. Uh like's what
do you make of his voice being a record scratch?
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Like, since we're like dissecting the narrative.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
Here, I do like that. I like that it keeps
it like it's since he's supposed to be godlike not
really understanding him. Is That's how I like interpreted that, Like,
oh my little human ears can't even decipher what he says.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Okay, apparent according to Wikipedia, he has a true voice
that is, like that sings a song called the Song
for the King of Kings. Uh Like, so he does
have a voice. I think the record scratch is more
of an approximation. Uh it's this fucking banana.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
But like like what come?
Speaker 2 (27:21):
What came to mind for me is I was like
thinking about him and the record scratch voices, like, uh
is that Lauren Hill video Everything is everything? Mm hmm,
you know the one I'm talking about where like it's
the entire city of New York is on a turntable.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
Mm hm.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
You know, and I like I kind of feel like
in a way like that's the conceit of this universe.
Like it's not a turntable exactly, but there's a kind
of musicality, like a sort of a whimsical musicality to it,
and everything is based around the idea of rolling things
up or spinning them around, you know, Like there's a
(27:59):
there's a motion to.
Speaker 5 (28:00):
Kind of goes in tune with the soundtrack.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Yeah, absolutely, so like uh yeah, it's this.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
It's almost this sort of like uh, the simplification of
the universe into like these very simple, digestible pieces.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Yeah, but they still have meaning.
Speaker 4 (28:19):
Yeah, and like it the game shrinks. As much as
the game complains about like oh, your your clumps are
not big enough, they're still like it's making the universe
way smaller, Like does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Yeah, yeah, no it is, that's right. You are growing
bigger and the universe is getting smaller.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
That's right. Uh yeah, And.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
It's like like there's a lot of stuff kind of
happening in the background that the more you think about it,
the more it's like, is the game entirely nonsensical or
is it actually trying to say something that's like somewhat profound.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
And I'm kind of like right in the middle of
those two. Would you call this game profound? Hannah? Is
that too far?
Speaker 5 (29:02):
I don't know. I don't I don't know the intent
behind this game. I think it can be interpreted that
way for sure.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Interesting what about you Star? Is it?
Speaker 4 (29:19):
My instinctual thing to say would be like no, because
it is such a simple, like it's very clearly like
they came up with a really good like game dynamic,
like oh, you're a small thing that rolls up something big,
and then they made a story around that, you know,
Like I feel like they came up with how to
play first, and then they're like, well, how do we
(29:41):
turn this into a game after? So I think in
that sense it's not that profound, but they did choose
to like make these characters the way they are and
in such a way that does like trigger these emotional,
you know, little like moments. So so maybe I don't
(30:07):
it's such a simple game. I don't want to give
it all that much more credit. But at the same time,
maybe it deserves it. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Well, I mean, it is fascinating to think that they
decided to make the antagonist of the game, who is
your father, gigantic, right, and the game is fundamentally about
you growing to be his size, you know, and to
do that you need to basically subjugate or minimize everything else. Yeah,
(30:38):
to become part of the star.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
I don't know how much.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
I mean, you know, like creative writing prompt you know,
that's what this could be if we really wanted to
and find interesting meaning in it. But like it's not nothing, right,
you know, like it's not purely nothing, And I think
if it was purely nothing, we wouldn't like the game
as much.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
You know.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
The thing that actually makes it so enjoyable is not
just that things go in ball ball get bigger that good.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
It's like what.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
You're like that eventually you're able to like roll up
living beings like people and cows and cats are just
part of the ball. You just sucked them up and
that's it. Now, Trees they're part of the ball. Now
you know, homes they're part of the ball. And then
like there's something really fun about that, you know, like
uh like the lego pieces almost.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Yeah, I just I just look that the meaning of
what Kamar DEMANSI actually like the translation, and it's means
clump yep, and DEMANSI can either mean like spirit or soul,
So it's like clump soul and m I think that
kind of ties into the what you were saying was like,
(31:47):
does this have a lot of death? And it's just like, well,
it's a clump with a little bit of spirit, and
you know it's in the end there there's something there.
But it's still a big ball trash.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
It is still a big ball of trash. Let no
one deceive you.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
You are making a big ball of trash. So I
want to talk a little bit about the game mechanically
if we can.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
I mean, I don't want to. I'd like us to
talk about all of our father issues, so please don't
feel like you have to stop, but I want to
talk a little bit about it mechanically. So earlier I
said that this game was Tetris, and I think we're
all going to agree that the game is fun, right,
Like it's pretty much always fun. Yeah, Okay, I want
(32:33):
to describe for the audience who may or may not
have played this game, like what actually happens, because I
don't think it's totally clear.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
So, like what happens is you, your character is You're
you're sort of piloting your character around, and your character
you can basically sort of rotate them in a three
hundred and sixty degree angle around this ball that you're
pushing forward, right like you're very much like almost like
a dung beetle push.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
You're only using little the little knobs. You don't use
any buttons.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Correct, there's no buttons this game. It's just sticks. And
the level itself is just a bunch.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Of weirdly shaped versions of everyday objects pretty much, you know,
arranged in a very twee way. Like there's there's like
robotic looking boxy mice running around having a great day.
There's like, you know, food, there's golf clubs, there's milk bottles,
there's you know, uh, there's pails and buckets and just
(33:34):
you know, depending on what the what the theme of this
level is there's a bunch of stuff that may or
may not fit into that strewn around, and your job
is to get it to stick to the ball and
then to to manage how that thing affects the physics
of the ball.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
Yeah, if you gather up, you want to keep the
ball as round as possible because at some point, if
you grab something that's like really irregular shaped, right, it
will really fuck up the way the ball moves. So
you're not trying to like and if something hits you,
you could knock things, get things knocked off your ball,
and then that's a mess too.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
So how often did you have to actually take stuff
off the ball to like fix how it was like built?
Speaker 4 (34:18):
Oh, I just kept rolling with it, awkwardly moving. I'm like,
well this is this is now.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
It's like a bullet wound in your leg. It's like, well,
I'm living with this, I guess I.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
Think eventually as long as you keep picking up more stuff.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Yeah, there were definitely like three or four moments where
like I had shaped my ball so foolishly that I
couldn't get to the next part of the level, Like
there was a chair sticking out or something, and it
legitimately like yeah, you know, laugh and you should because
what a shitty ball I was making.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Uh And like you legitimately couldn't navigate the thing got
hard to move around, like it became kind of unwieldy.
But the game is designed perfec where it's always a
little unwieldy, like it's never easy to operate this thing,
like it's a little you feel a little bit like
you can't totally control.
Speaker 4 (35:08):
It if you go backwards. It's so slow.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
Yes, yes, that's right.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
It punishes you for for making a mistake, like it's
like no, no, you always got to be moving forward.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
And uh, I thought there was. There's something brilliantly frustrating
about losing anything attached to the ball, like anytime you
lose a single thing, like that fucking cat is coming back,
like it.
Speaker 4 (35:33):
Moves, especially if it's like a moving thing like if
you catch a bird, Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Yeah yeah yeah yeah. Also there's so many thrilling discoveries
of things that are going to stick to the ball, right,
like this isial When you first start the game, you
don't necessarily think these living creatures are going to become
part of the ball. Yes they are. They're all it's
all going in uh.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
And it's a great moment the first time you capture
a bird and it's sitting there fluttering helplessly.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
In its doom. If you're like, nah, man, you're part
of the ball. Sorry, the ball, part of the ball, bros.
That's how it goes. When did you first play this game? Guys?
Speaker 4 (36:08):
I want to say, I think I just moved out
to la I feel maybe older than that, but I
want to say, it's like, when did this come out?
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Originally? It was in the early two thousands.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
I want to say, I'm going to not conspicuously type
words into my computer and see if it will tell
me exactly when it came out.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
It was for the PlayStation two. It came out in
two thousand and four, March two and four for Japan.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
I'm remembering now. I was definitely just out of college
at my first job, because I became a little obsessive
about the game, and my coworkers printed me out a
tiny prince and I had it up on my.
Speaker 5 (36:55):
Desk.
Speaker 4 (36:55):
So yeah, around that, just out of college is when
I first played this game.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Incredible, Hannah, what about you?
Speaker 5 (37:03):
I only played the rebooted version. I had seen. I
used to watch actually videos of people like other people
playing the PlayStation versions to go to sleep because it's
very kind of soothing in a weird way. But I'd
never actually played it until like maybe four years.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Ago, Okay, so fairly recently. Interesting.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yeah, I also only played it recently because it had
gotten like I had just heard so many people who
gave me like the down their nose look, you know,
just like you haven't played Catamari, Damasey, what are you
some kind of a son of a bitch, you know,
like just just some just they like it's sort of
I guess assumed among the the known video game elite,
(37:47):
Like you gotta play this game.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
And I got to tell you. Once I played it,
I could see why. Yeah, it's it's.
Speaker 4 (37:53):
The perfect game of Oh I have half an hour
to kill. I'd like to play a video game and
not get like super involved either, And it's like I'm
just gonna pop in for like a little minute before
i have to go do something else.
Speaker 5 (38:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
And I think it's it's rare in art in general
that you get to play something that feels like a
unique person made this and like this is their personality.
Speaker 4 (38:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
And I'm enjoying it for all of its sort of
effervescent individuality. This game is This game and its creator,
I assume are are inextricably linked, and it's a product
of one brain, and that it's a marvelous brain.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
You know.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
It's just such a that's a thrilling thing when you
get to see something like that for the first time.
Speaker 4 (38:41):
A quick rundown of the from the from the creator,
like just a great quick summary. So Takahashi artist who
went to university for sculpting.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
He's a sculptor, Okay, sure makes sense.
Speaker 4 (38:56):
He came to the philosophy that his art needed to
combine practical elements along with whimsy and humor. So, like
going to school, that was his whole deal. Everything I
make needs to have whimsy and humor. Then he got
hired by Yeah, Then he got hired by Namco, who
at the time I think was just making like fighting
games and yeah, yeah, and so he was assigned to
(39:19):
come up with like these silly games, and he developed
the characters for Katamari. First, they were supposed to be
in something else, Like they were supposed to be hammers,
which is why their heads are that shape.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
That makes sense I was always gonna like, I wondered
if there'd be an answer to why are their heads
so weird?
Speaker 4 (39:33):
Yeah, so they were originally supposed to be like hammering,
and it like the game had like the classic kind
of like the King's the wife, the queen was kidnapped
and the king told the prince to go get the
wife because he didn't want to do it, which there
was still always the element of that dad sucks and
they like put akebash on that because you know video
(39:54):
game industry. And eventually he was put in charge of
another like come up with something for all these introns
that we just hired to do, and he thought of
that simple like what about just a mechanic of going
from small to big? And they're like, great, love it.
Let's get all these newbies on this game, so we
give them something to do. And that's how this game started.
(40:16):
It was just and they told him to go use
those characters from that old game and wow. So so yeah,
he's just a dude who's simple concept, wanted to make
something kind of fun and lighthearted and got a team
of just fresh out of college game designers who wanted
to bake something with him.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
It seems this.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Didn't seem like every cool story for a thing is
like some college student who just had a cool idea,
Like it doesn't he just feel like like there's just
like a window where like, man, uh, we should we
should be letting more talented youths that are between the
ages of twenty two and thirty two just try a
thing if they can.
Speaker 4 (40:57):
Yeah, apparently almost didn't release it. They were weren't sure
about it because it was such a weird game, but
they took it to like some convention, like a gaming
convention in Japan and like teased it and people were like,
this is the best one is this coming out? And
so namcos well, oh fuck, we should release this, and
then they did, and then on a I guess then
(41:18):
and then because of how successful it was in Japan,
they kind of were like, Okay, let's just release it elsewhere,
and they did, but they didn't like there wasn't a
lot of people in the OG game like knowing what
this was in the US, because they did. Sure, you know,
it's a weird ass game.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
I think, And also like we can't underestimate how how
cautious an audience probably is when everything about the packaging
of it is like this is weird and foreign, you
know what I mean. Like, like, I think we've all
seen that audiences are initially reluctant to embrace things that
(41:57):
they don't immediately connect to, And this game makes absolutely
no apologize for its uh, for its strangeness, you know,
and I love that about it.
Speaker 5 (42:08):
Yeah, that's what I love about it too. I think
the reason we a lot of these stories are about
young people is not because it's not because they have
like purer, simpler ideas, it's that they are willing to
go with those ideas with their whip points.
Speaker 4 (42:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (42:29):
I think there's a lot actually in this game about
how like self doubt becomes ingrained through society and stuff,
or I don't, I don't know how like just messages
we get that we internalize from a dumb ass king
character or whatever.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
It is, or would internalize if we weren't all so old.
Speaker 4 (42:52):
Uh. Apparently apparently the King's last message at the end
of the sequel was don't expect an that sequel. Live
in the moment. This is one of the most important
lessons in life.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
So he like turned it all around.
Speaker 4 (43:06):
Yeah, So he ends the game with a like I
guess like hopeful message, you know, but it's also like
you're still a dick, though I wouldn't.
Speaker 5 (43:16):
Like, Yeah, how dare you put me through these entire
games and then tell me to live in the moment,
you asshole?
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Yeah, with your starhead, your stupid star head. I agree,
the Dead is a stupid star headed asshole. And let's
take that moment. Let's take that thought and contemplate it
a moment as we run into our break and on
the other side we will decide whether this game belongs
on the Celestial hard drive.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
Stay tuned for that.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
And we're back and unfortunately there's a giant ball it's
going to roll us wiggling into it as so we
only have minutes to live. But it's fine because you
know what a fun intro song. By the way, I
feel like the intro song is like a pretty good
test for whether somebody is a psychopath. Like it's like,
just sit them down and play this song, and if
(44:21):
they're not having a good time, Like if you can't
tell they're having a good time, that's something's wrong with them.
Cause like right that game, like it's such a winsome intro.
It made me instantly love this game. Can we get
this done?
Speaker 3 (44:33):
In psychology, I.
Speaker 4 (44:36):
Think I read somewhere or like a long time ago,
like the soundtrack was made with they hired very popular
like jazz musicians and voice actors, but they hired them
like when out of their prime, Like they used to
be popular and people still like them, but since they're
not at their peak, Like that's the people he hired.
(44:59):
So it's like very talent, but we're available.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
Essentially, Yeah, the ill considered the discarded.
Speaker 4 (45:07):
Yeah, and so that's why I like the soundtrack is
so good because it's like very talented jazz musicians and
like voice actors and stuff who were just like waiting
for another gig.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Yeah, there's a lot of meaning in this little, uh,
this little ball of fury that's being collected slowly, and
I think we've done a pretty nice show. Do you
guys have any last points you want to bring up
before we pass our final checkpoint?
Speaker 3 (45:33):
Anything? Send? Ready to go?
Speaker 5 (45:37):
I feel dad's kind of suck.
Speaker 4 (45:40):
That suck.
Speaker 5 (45:42):
Yeah, some good ones, but most of them, they they
they're just not great.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
Okay, yeah, okay, all.
Speaker 5 (45:54):
Right, Like as a group, there there are good dads, but.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
Why are they mostly bad?
Speaker 2 (46:04):
I want to know, incredible As a person who's never
knowingly fathered a child, I can't answer for that.
Speaker 5 (46:15):
But I also always tell doctors I've never had any
kids that I know of, and they never laugh. Yeah. Dead.
Speaker 4 (46:25):
Just to be slightly contradictory with this as well, but
in the game, you rarely see like his mother who
definitely does exist.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
Oh yeah, that's right.
Speaker 4 (46:35):
I don't I don't know what her deal is. I
don't know if she's also abandoned this little prince. Who knows,
but she's an absence mom.
Speaker 2 (46:48):
Who could deal with him for that long, you know
what I mean. She's like, look, I gotta live for me.
I gotta be queen of my own cosmos.
Speaker 3 (46:53):
You know.
Speaker 5 (46:55):
Then take us with you, Yeah, take take take the.
Speaker 4 (46:58):
Little prince with you, Like you find out later there's
a bunch of cousins too, who are also adorably designed.
But yeah, like, no one's watching out for these little ones.
And maybe it's just the culture of these space beings
to be like this is how you raise tiny ones.
But I mean, maybe I'm not going to give the
mom and this props either.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
I know, I'm not really giving anybody props because let's
be honest. You are committing genocide. Okay, this's what's happening here.
You are destroying entire civilizations as part of your quest
to please Dad. So you know, nobody comes out a
winner here except the player who has the best time
(47:39):
of their life.
Speaker 3 (47:41):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (47:42):
Okay, I guess we're gonna pass our final checkpoint. Then
ruminating on the failures of our fathers, and decide does
this game deserve to be put forever enshrined on the
celestial hard drive so aliens can see it, you know,
as long as it doesn't get rolled up into a
ball of weird crap.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
What do you think, Hannah, I think considering that this
game would be kind of how aliens perceive not just
our civilization, but our family dynamics.
Speaker 3 (48:15):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (48:18):
And it would be super meta to kind of roll
this up and put it into space. I would definitely
put it there.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
Love it great reasons. I'm all in love. I love
your reasoning.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
Uh. Starr, what about you?
Speaker 4 (48:34):
I I like, if it's to preserve things like as
a time capsule, I would say yes, Okay. If we're
doing it to communicate with aliens, absolutely not. Do not
want to give them ideas?
Speaker 3 (48:50):
Good point.
Speaker 4 (48:50):
I don't would not want them to come over and
be like, oh, they want us to come roll them up.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
I think I think what we're learning is that both
of you take your video game. Now rative's extremely seriously.
Speaker 3 (49:01):
Like absolutely very serious about them, which I love. I
think that's great.
Speaker 4 (49:07):
But if it's Time Capsule purposes, then yeah, absolutely put
this thing in there, like especially the soundtrack.
Speaker 2 (49:13):
Okay, yeah, definitely. Since since we don't currently know in
the aliens and therefore it's hard to target specifically to
an alien's point of view, I think Time Capsule is
probably a more useful way to think about what this is.
I think, honestly, it's one of a kind, and there
(49:35):
just aren't that many games that are one of a kind.
There's lots of games that invented new things, and there's
lots of games that were important in shaping what video
games are.
Speaker 3 (49:48):
I don't know of any.
Speaker 2 (49:48):
Other games that learned stuff from Katamari Domasy, like I
don't see a lot of like games imitating or copying
it so much. But it's also a unique world that
is brilliant and simple and beautiful. Actually, and especially because
I was not emotionally harmed by this poor father figure.
(50:09):
I think it absolutely belongs on the Celestial Art Drive.
I honestly, I think it's a great game and a
great example of what the art form can be, and
it totally belongs, And I think Mike would agree. But
he's welcome to argue in a hard Drive episode if
he doesn't degree, He's welcome.
Speaker 3 (50:27):
To do that. Friends, what a joy having you on.
Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 4 (50:35):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (50:37):
This is fun.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
Thank you, It's always fun to have you guys on
star Where can people find you and your gorgeous artworks
that deserve to be known and shared?
Speaker 4 (50:48):
You could find my art at starline arts dot com.
That's my Etsy shop where you could purchase a sticker
or two. You could also find me on Twitter at
starline x and on insta as star Line also pronounts Starlene,
but for spelling purposes, star Line is the easiest way
to go about that.
Speaker 3 (51:08):
Thank you so much. Hannah. What about you?
Speaker 2 (51:10):
Where can we find your comedy stylings?
Speaker 5 (51:15):
My soon to be short lived or at least check
mark removed. Twitter is at Hannah Michael's h A N
A M I C H E L S. I put
the most things on there. Because I don't like to
show my face, but I'm gonna have to if I
have to pivot to TikTok or Instagram. They're the same handles.
Speaker 3 (51:34):
So okay, yeah, are you gonna pivot to TikTok and Instagram?
Speaker 5 (51:38):
I mean, I feel like it's gonna have to be
It's gonna be inevitable at some point, like unless someone
comes up at the suitable replacement platform that enough people
to get on.
Speaker 4 (51:53):
Yeah, but something might come up. I mean, we used
to have live journals in myspaces. There's got to be
a new one eventually.
Speaker 3 (52:00):
I had the best MySpace star. You wouldn't even believe
it like I had, Like, okay, I had all it
was black background, purple text.
Speaker 4 (52:07):
What was your song?
Speaker 3 (52:08):
Thank you for asking?
Speaker 2 (52:10):
It was Little Eyes by Yola Tango. Look, it was
a real vibe up in Gansas MySpace.
Speaker 5 (52:15):
Man.
Speaker 2 (52:17):
Also, Hannah, I just want you to confirm for the
audience before we actually go, I would look excellent in
the forties. You wouldn't admit it, and I'd like you
to admit it on the podcast. I would look good
at nothing that.
Speaker 5 (52:28):
I wouldn't admit it. All I said was we would
all look excellent in the forties because we don't have
radium poisoning. I'm not saying you wouldn't be exceptionally excellent.
Speaker 3 (52:38):
Thank you would thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (52:40):
That's all I needed. I should have been in the forties.
The best outfits for me. Somebody else said I'd look
good in the sixties. No, I'd look ridiculous. The forties
are the only other time I could have lived.
Speaker 3 (52:52):
Big suits, Yeah yeah, big suits.
Speaker 1 (52:55):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I see it is that hats.
Speaker 3 (53:00):
The hats. They had fucking incredible hats in the forties.
You know.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
There were bad things going on, I'm told in the forties,
but outfit yeah, outfit.
Speaker 3 (53:10):
Wise, I would have done quite well.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
Hey, listen, if you haven't checked out this game and
at our our celebration of it and making fun of
it and stuff hasn't convinced you, please let me encourage you.
Speaker 3 (53:23):
This is a one of a kind experience. It's great.
It's a great and fun video game.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
It's actually fun to watch, it's fun to play with
your friends and stuff, Like I like taking turns. This
is that kind of game. I would say it deserves
your time. Give it a shot. If you enjoyed this podcast.
I would like to hear my voice along with Mike's
voice on other podcasts that are not just about video games,
but stuff like I don't know movies, like what directors do,
(53:48):
like what Friendship's about, how to deal with depression, what's
up with dinosaurs? All that kind of stuff. You can
go over to our Patreon, which is patreon dot com,
forward slash small beans and get just an earful of
all of that. If you like it, stick around, throw
us a couple of bucks. You'll get even more special stuff,
things like talking about the multiverse and others. So thanks
(54:12):
so much to our shipheads for listening in.
Speaker 3 (54:15):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (54:16):
Do you have any last confessions you'd like to put
on Mike, Hannah or her star.
Speaker 4 (54:20):
I'm going to read one last quote from from the Dad,
which was we'd make it much bigger.
Speaker 3 (54:29):
Hannah anything, any crimes you like to commit to or
confess to.
Speaker 5 (54:33):
What did you get something in the mail recently? Did
someone put a flaming bead on your doorstep? What is happening?
Speaker 3 (54:43):
No? That is that coming.
Speaker 5 (54:47):
Controlling you? And you continue to treat me as though
I am still trolling you. It's almost like I have
permanently traumatized your nervous system.
Speaker 3 (54:59):
It is almost like that you're my king of all cosmos.
Speaker 4 (55:02):
I was gonna say, Hanna, you've become the king of
a cosmos.
Speaker 3 (55:05):
I just every time she talks like this, yere oh God,
I swore I would never become my father work completely
h
Oh listen.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
The true tragedy of this game is that there is
absolutely no way to introduce it that would be better
than the game introduces itself. This game has the greatest
introduction ever in a video game, Like I like, people
hounded me to play this game for years.
Speaker 3 (00:43):
And I was like, this looks so stupid, Like I
just don't want to do it.
Speaker 2 (00:46):
Man, I'm old and I have a beard. I've had
a beard since I was born. I've always been this way.
And I played the intro and man talk about winning
somebody over on. Yeah, it's incredible. Hi, shipheads, welcome to
another episode of one Osmanship. I'm your host Adam Ganser.
(01:07):
Today Mike has gone off to sail the galaxy and
form a star cluster of his own. And with me
are two of my favorite star Warriors slash rollers. Please
introduce yourselves.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Friends.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Hi, I'm Starline Hodge. I good bye, star I'm friends.
I'm friends with you all.
Speaker 3 (01:27):
That's right, yep, that's right, old pals.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
In fact, we go all the way back to the
Overwatch episode and before that to Cracked After Hours. We've
in friends for a very long time, and my other
celestial colleague.
Speaker 5 (01:43):
I am Hannah Michaels.
Speaker 3 (01:46):
You slow rolled me. I knew you're gonna do it.
You slow rolled me.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Welcome Hannah of Pokemon snap fame or infamy.
Speaker 3 (01:54):
I guess I should say, well.
Speaker 5 (01:55):
Yeah, every time I guessed on a podcast, it's always
Hannah is a DeMont, she killed the dinosaurs, and she's
the worst human being in the world. Three stars, three stars.
Speaker 3 (02:07):
I like how many stars you got though?
Speaker 5 (02:09):
Yeah, yeah, I'm always how many stars I managed to
get with being just like Hitler.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
Whatever it is, say Hitler three starts. Yeah, honestly, that
goes on your tombstone. Yeah, that's that's the review that
you get from the Afterlife.
Speaker 2 (02:29):
That's a pretty good one anyway. So glad you guys
could join me to talk about this game. So let's
roll right into this and pass our very first checkpoint,
in which we will do tell me like I'm a
bit I think you guys are You guys have been
on previous episodes, but as I said, it's a new
(02:49):
segment in which we explain to somebody who's never heard
of this game, what is it and kind of what's
it all about?
Speaker 3 (02:58):
And uh, one of you volunteered to do it? Which
one of you decided to tell everyone.
Speaker 4 (03:03):
I did Star, I did.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Oh love it all right, Star hit.
Speaker 4 (03:07):
It all right? So Katamar DEMANSI. It begins with the
King of all Cosmos getting real drunk and destroying all
the stars in Earth's solar system. And he begs his son,
but not really begs, demands that his son, this tiny
little prince of an alien, to go to Earth and
(03:32):
roll up everything he can at various different sizes so
that he could put it back in space and replace
the stars that he destroyed. And your task is you
were the prince, and you roll things up, and if
you don't do a good job, the King of all
Cosmos yells at you and is real mean. And so
(03:53):
your goal is to get your dad to love you.
And that's the game.
Speaker 2 (03:58):
Yep, that's rights as so gigantic, Yes, Like it's not
a small thing for.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
Him to be angry at you, Like my God is
a huge man.
Speaker 4 (04:09):
And I believe there's a little like b plot of
like the Earthlings, Like there's a family you follow on
Earth who's experiencing like the chaos, the prints rolling everything up.
It's like every time you beat a level, you get
a little bit more of like this family story, but
it's not as important as you trying to get your
King Cosmos Daddy's love. That's the game.
Speaker 5 (04:32):
Yep. Yeah, and it's it's very very hard to earn
his love.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Oh really incredibly, he's very.
Speaker 3 (04:40):
Very It is hard. Yeah, it is hard. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
Excellent summary. Also, if you're confused about what this game is,
don't worry. You'll never understand what it is. You'll play
it and never understand, so hopefully that gives you some relief.
It's time for us to pass our very next checkpoint
and get right into the gamer rants, in which we
all three come in with our scorching hot takes, like
(05:09):
our white Dwarf takes, you know, like that kind of
that's the hottest stars?
Speaker 3 (05:13):
Am I wrong? If I don't, I could be wrong.
I don't know what the hottest star is, but let's
say it's a white Dwarf, that hot of a take.
I can go first, or if one of you has
it ready? Does anybody want to go first? Do you
want me to? No?
Speaker 4 (05:25):
You go, you take it?
Speaker 2 (05:27):
Okay, I'll go first, Okay, great, all right? Player one
Adam ganzer logging in okay, Katamari Damassy is Tetris. That
is what this is, and what I mean by that
is this is a game that is fun purely because
it figured out a mechanic and did perfectly this thing
(05:47):
that no other game has done as well. And that
mechanic is a physics engine that makes it difficult but
rewarding to collect other objects and changes the nature and
dynamic of the ball you're rolling around. It is really
that simple. It's like an evolution of those old school
like Marble madness games, if you will. And the reason
(06:10):
I call it Tetris is because Tetris is a perfect
loop that was designed so perfectly and simply that it
doesn't need more to be satisfying. And I think that
Katamari Domasi is exactly the same. It doesn't need any
more to be satisfying than just the loop that it creates.
It's such a strong loop in fact, that the game
(06:32):
never fundamentally changes. It is the same game from minute
one to minute finish, and it's fun the entire time.
It's always fun. It's that deep of a loop that
this creator made, and that's incredible in this time period,
Like it's such an amazing idea and it's one of
a kind now to add to that, part of what
(06:55):
makes it such a winsome game, like, part of the
packaging of this loop that makes it so WinCE is
that it's also very zany and silly, and it embraces that.
Speaker 3 (07:05):
It knows it's silly. It knows it's zany, it knows
that it's got a world that is.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
Just sort of joyfully illogical and doesn't care to explain itself,
doesn't feel the need to explain itself. So, like, you
start as this tiny little prince who's like rolling up
a ball of like, you know, dominoes, you know, stuff
that's really small, like the paper clips and e.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Racers and stuff like that.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
Candies.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Yeah, yeah, little tiny things.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
And by the end of the game, you're rolling up
like entire neighborhoods and stuff.
Speaker 3 (07:38):
You're like, you're rolling up all.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Of human civilization and it's and it's always fun. Every
new thing that you're able to stick to the ball
as it gets bigger adds an element of fun and
it makes you laugh. And I don't know, I don't
know what genius understood that those two things were that
deep of a reservoir fun. I didn't look up who
(08:02):
made this game I should have it, but that person
is one of the greatest video game designers ever, like
one of the greatest ever. And I say that because
like they made a new toy that stands on its own.
It doesn't need a whole new thing. It doesn't need
a shiny gloss of paint. This game never needs a remix.
It just needs to be able to run as is forever.
(08:23):
Just like Tetris. They make lots of new kinds of Tetris.
They can make lots of new kinds of Katamari Domasy
and I'll play them all.
Speaker 3 (08:29):
They'll be fun. But it doesn't need to be anything
more than what it is. It is. It is a.
Speaker 2 (08:35):
Contained, perfect little loop well done. It is so impressive,
and it won over my old grumpy heart.
Speaker 3 (08:42):
That is my rant.
Speaker 4 (08:46):
The creator's name is Kaita taka Hashi.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
By the way, thank you now.
Speaker 2 (08:51):
I will send that person a thank you card because
they have deserved one. You want to go next, Hana sure.
Speaker 5 (09:00):
Katamari Domici is kind of It's absurd yet relatable. If
you have workaholic parents and or roll a bunch of things,
roll a bunch of trash into a ball regularly, either
of those things very relatable game in those regards. I
(09:24):
think the absurdity really adds to the fun. And there's
some absurdity in what you can roll up and how
things react when you try to roll them up, how
people and animals react when you hit them with your
ball of everything. It's, uh, it's pretty adorable. And yeah,
(09:48):
it's a very simple mechanic that doesn't really need much.
If they did make a new game, it would basically
be the same. The cut scenes would be different, but
it would basically it would basically be the same game
with different different cut scenes. I think there is a
reroll a version that's not on uh Switch, Sorry, yeah
(10:12):
it's not on switch.
Speaker 3 (10:16):
Yeah there was a sequel. The sequel I don't think
is on Switch if I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
Yeah, yeah, exactly not, I'm sorry. Reroll is the a
remaster of it, the remaster of the game. Yeah, uh
forever Katamari Forever. I think it's a sequel, and yeah,
it's basically the same thing, only the king is so
you cannot wake him up. He's so black, I'm drunk.
(10:41):
You can't wake him up. So you have to create
this robot king that doesn't really work right, and is
the opposite of the real King. Instead of getting down
on you, he gets down on himself all the time.
But it's basically the same game.
Speaker 3 (11:00):
Yeah, wonderful. Is that is that it is at the
end of your rant?
Speaker 5 (11:04):
Uh, yeah, pretty much. It's it's fun and simple.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
I agree with you, Okay, great star.
Speaker 4 (11:14):
My my Catamari rant is that I love how this
game gives you the power of the gods. You are
a tiny little god like rolling everybody up, doing whatever
you want essentially, and even then it's still not good enough.
I like the idea of a being that is essentially
(11:36):
all powerful in a way, and yet like it's they
are still kind of so humanized in that sense of like, no,
someone's still gonna yell at you, and even the person
yelling at you is not a perfect being. They also suck.
So it's okay to just you know, do your best
(11:57):
and like just get what you want to get done,
because I know at some point when I played the
game my goal was just to like I just want
to hit the marks, trying to overachieve for this like
King of the Cosmos, who's just gonna yell at me?
It like made me not want to do it. So
I just really Yeah, for me, it was just a
matter toward the end of the game. In the beginning,
(12:20):
I was very much trying to get all the praise.
But then just as you keep going, like those were
so far in few in between that I was just like,
you know what, I just want to succeed. I want
to be proud of me. So I like that the
game kind of kind of it. At least for me,
it reinforced that. And yeah, I like that, like you're
(12:41):
this all powerful being and you're still just like I
just I'm just trying to do my best. That's so much,
my little rant.
Speaker 3 (12:51):
I love it so much. I love this. I love you.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
Guys both said things I could never have said because
just the things that you connect about it or things
that I haven't even thought about.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
So I love it. I love it so much. I'll
tell you what. Let's get into it after we roll
up just a tiny little neighborhood, just real quick, roll
up a neighborhood, take a little break, get a couple
of ads in our system, and then come back and
you know, we'll take on most of Silver Lake after
the break.
Speaker 2 (13:30):
Okay, get ready Echo Park because we're back and we're
about to roll up most of that overpriced real estate.
Get prepared. Let's pass our next checkpoint and get right
into game on.
Speaker 3 (13:41):
And I kind of.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Wanted to ask you guys both a question. Now, I
normally don't do this, but I'm just sort of curious
because mostly because you guys haven't been on the show
since we went to iHeart, but also I think it's
just fun for everybody. Can you guys each named a
few of your favorite games?
Speaker 3 (13:57):
Like what?
Speaker 5 (13:58):
Like?
Speaker 3 (13:58):
Just give me a sense of like the games you
gravitate toward. Oh yeah, maybe, Hannah, I'll put it on
you first, a couple of your favorite games.
Speaker 5 (14:10):
I mean, I do like your game Nemesies, which are
turn based strategy games. I know, I know they're evil. Yeah, yeah,
I really enjoyed Inscription, and I like Pokemon.
Speaker 3 (14:28):
Yeah Pokemon okay great? But but Mario Kart, right, aren't
you into like Mario Party?
Speaker 5 (14:33):
I love racing and fighting games, so they're simple and fun,
and I love those as well.
Speaker 3 (14:37):
Yeah, you're a sole Caliber.
Speaker 2 (14:39):
In fact, you stream often Sole Caliber, in which you
play a sexualized horse person.
Speaker 3 (14:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (14:46):
I wish I could get back to that. Yeah, it
was Boldo's move so too, which is always fun.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
You could get back to that sexualized horse person streaming place.
It is a great place. I completely understand. Okay, great Starr,
What about you? What are some of the games that
you gravitate toward.
Speaker 4 (15:03):
Okay, so I have at least I have four Overwatch one,
not Overwatch two. Overwatch two is kind of horseshit right now.
Speaker 3 (15:13):
I was gonna ask you about that. Okay, great, but.
Speaker 4 (15:15):
Overwatch one Kingdom Hearts love that weird shit. It's just weird. Yeah,
oh man, what did I just I just had it.
I was Overwatch Kingdom Hearts Portal, the Portal series, absolutely
love and adoring that. And more recently, I've been playing
(15:38):
Breath of the Wild, oh yeah, and Horizon Horizon Zerra
Down those those are my Jamy Horizon, mostly for the
crazy Apocalypse story. I think it's just really well told.
And for Breath of the Wild just currently, like I
(15:59):
don't know, it's just it's almost relaxing, like it's just
a beautiful game and it's just chill, and I like helping,
like I like all the little side quests as I
go along, and I like that you can kind of
just do whatever you want.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
Okay, yeah, I think I Actually that is also why
I love Breath of the Wild more than the major
overarching narrative pieces of it that people like. I like
the chill out game vibe of it. I totally agree
with you on that. So people who've been listening to
podcasts know a litany of games that I'm into, But
(16:34):
in general, in general, I tend to like the Triple
A first person shooters, and I do like Breath the Wild.
I do, I do, Like you know, Red Dead, La
Noir is kind of rocketing up one of my favorite games.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Yeah. Also, the Resident Evils are kind of rocketing up
my list the more I play them. But I play
many many games, as you know.
Speaker 2 (16:57):
And the reason I'm bringing this up at all is
that this game, I think, managed to get all of
us into it for entirely different reasons, and none of
us are exactly the esthetic of this game, Like I
feel like they're I don't know who I think this
game is designed for aesthetically, but I would say like
none of us are an exact fit for what this is.
Speaker 3 (17:19):
Is that unfair?
Speaker 6 (17:21):
Right?
Speaker 3 (17:21):
Like? If? It?
Speaker 4 (17:22):
Yeah, it kind of reminds me of more of like
a mobile game, like if you a game that you
would have on your phone, which I don't, yes, realize that, yes,
that also counts as gaming, but I don't think about
my phone games when I'm thinking of like, oh, what
games do I like?
Speaker 3 (17:36):
You know, right, phone games sort of occupy forgiving how
phone games occupy an interesting real estate, which is usually
filling time when you're doing something else mm hmm, you know,
and like right now, we still think of video games,
although I think Switch is changing this a little bit
as being like an activity in itself, you know, like
(17:57):
it's like I now I'm gonna go play video game.
That's the thing I'm doing. Yes, and mobile games are
kind of not that interesting, Hanna. Do you feel like
this game fits neatly into any of our aesthetics or like,
do you feel like it was designed for you or
that it's weird that you like it?
Speaker 5 (18:12):
I think the absurdism was kind of designed for all
of us. But yeah, the gameplay I or the graphics
or any other element of this game. I don't think
that you could necessarily point to any one of us
that would resonate with it. We just happened to all
like it.
Speaker 2 (18:31):
Well, I would say we didn't all just happen to
I would say it's actually that's how good it is
that it can sort of get past the kinds of
games you would like and draw you in because it's tone.
There are very few games that are like purely joyful,
(18:53):
very very few, and the ones that do it are,
you know, great games when they really achieve. And I
think that's one of the reasons why we all love
Mario games so much, is that they're actually joyful.
Speaker 3 (19:05):
Yes, and this game is joyful.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
You I mean, you guys talked about the plot in
a way that's funny because I never even thought about
the plot. But the tone of it is pretty joyful,
wouldn't you agree.
Speaker 4 (19:16):
Yeah, you're you're a little man just trying to trying
to save the universe in a real weird way. But
ultimately yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Like.
Speaker 6 (19:25):
It's like, yeah, you're like you're saying to the universe,
but you're also just like rolling up chairs and cats stuff,
Like you're just adding people's lives to this little like
glava goo that you're pushing around.
Speaker 3 (19:39):
Like maybe we haven't even described very clearly exactly what
this game is.
Speaker 5 (19:43):
You're harnessing the power of gravity in a very specific way.
To stick eventually very large objects on this tiny little ball.
But at first, you know, the gravity as a force
is proportional. It will only you will only be able
to roll up the things that are smaller than that
tiny little ball that you start with.
Speaker 3 (20:05):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
And so there's a puzzle to every single level in
this game. And the puzzle is how can I, before
time runs out, get the ball big enough to capture
all the main objects in it so that they all
roll up into my little you know, star bundle. And
because you like, you can't just roll go up to
the biggest thing and have it stick, like you need
(20:28):
to have enough mass in the ball that you're rolling
up to get the bigger objects to stick to it,
you know. And it's a very simple puzzle, like that's
the same puzzle every time, but it's, uh, it does
require a little bit of thought. Like it's not a
thoughtless game. It's you can't turn your brain off entirely, no,
I still need to pay attention to it.
Speaker 4 (20:48):
And the music definitely keeps you hooked in because it's
absolutely delightful. The soundtrack. I still listen to the soundtrack
when I'm cleaning.
Speaker 5 (20:58):
It's good cleaning music that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (21:02):
Oh that would be good cleaning me.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
It's like you're like, man, I really I really got
to tackle a room and yeah I'm moncy soundtrack and
you're like, I'm right back in it, and.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Yeah, yeah, it kind of gets your heart rate up.
But it's also like, but I'm having fun. It's uh,
it's what I imagine cocaine is. Like I can't say, but
it's what I imagine. It's like, Uh, okay, Hannah, tell me
a little bit about why if you what you said
something about if you were a kid whose parents weren't
(21:35):
around or something.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
Like parents were workaholics. Yeah, absolutely nothing is ever good
enough for the dead in this game, and the rest
of your life, much like, uh, the rest of your
gaming experience with Katamari will be making peace with that.
And just like Star was saying, just making yourself.
Speaker 3 (21:57):
Proud, that's great, you guys both can to that.
Speaker 2 (22:01):
Like I just find that incredible, Like because I didn't
even I didn't give a shit what the guy said.
I was like, hey, I'm just getting the ball. It's
all good.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
But you guys both really connected to this dad's story.
Speaker 4 (22:11):
I mean, like I have I have like Daddy issues.
So it's it hit me in a very strange like, oh,
like suddenly like this father figure you know, is just
like very demanding when in like my actual life, my
father was not around. So I was just like, who
the fuck are you? And I also still like, you know,
(22:31):
like that little kid men tell me I want I
want adults to like me. And so you're instantly in
this game being told as a little kid you're not
good enough. And there was like a weird mix of
like what do you but I did what you told
me to do. I don't what what.
Speaker 3 (22:48):
Do you want for me? I make it the best star,
It's got all the good stuff in it.
Speaker 4 (22:52):
I did it. I did it in the time. What
do you mean it's not big enough? I don't.
Speaker 5 (22:58):
Specific tests? Yeah, and when you actually do it perfectly,
like with the crab one and I got like one
hundred something crabs and I got a response that was yuck,
too crabby, And it's like, what what you asked for? Crabs?
You literally ask for crabs?
Speaker 3 (23:18):
You chaotic, rollheaded fuck like just like live my life. Uh,
it's so this is I'm sorry. I don't mean to
laugh at your pain. Please forgive me if that's how
this is coming off. I'm just it just thrilled so.
Speaker 5 (23:32):
Much laughs it laughs at like productivity, guilt and pain,
and it's it's great for that.
Speaker 2 (23:38):
Yeah, I actually think there's something sort of deeply profound
about that that like the game kind of uh trivializes
it in a way that makes the act more meaningful,
Like it like how do I say this without getting
too philosophical, Like it's almost like, well, it's almost like
(23:59):
in a way, you're sort of rolling up the concern
for those kinds of things, like it's equally artificial and
also sort of sticks to this ball that you can
dispose of at the end, because at the end, all
you really have is the thing that you made. You know,
like his approval kind of doesn't change what happens in.
Speaker 3 (24:16):
The game, m you know what I exactly So like
in a way that like there's something and there's a
lot of like little clues that the family life of
the universe is a little bit fractured here, and you're
actually sort of disposing of that, like you're sort of
this is a very silly version, but you're sort of
(24:37):
like purifying the galaxy, if you will, of all this
extraneous stuff that doesn't need to be there, you know
what I mean, Like, I mean, that might be a
little bit too poetic of a rendering of what this
game is about, But I don't think it's not there.
Have I gone too far? Hannah? Have I reached through
the stars and fallen short?
Speaker 5 (24:57):
I don't think so. I think that because the framework
is so simple, it allows for that kind of interpretation inherently,
and I think it probably knows that. Yeah, And because
the framework is so overreaching, while the gameplay is so simple,
it does touch on a lot of absurdities in our lives.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
Yeah, I want to read some of the quotes that
you get from the King of Cosmos. So like if
you barely achieve something in like with your star, he'll
say something like, we'll force this into a constellation, but
make it, but do it fresher next time. Or while
(25:42):
you're playing, sure, yeah, while you're playing. Sometimes he'll just
say like, perk up, lose your prints, but why why
would you do that? Or he'll just be like is
your body green yellow? Make up your mind already? Which,
by the way, as a little prince, you are like
a green yellow like tennis ball colored little alien man.
Oh my god, yeah, he goes, ah, you're so so small,
(26:08):
You're as small as ever you like, just it's just
the mean asshole dad. He sucks.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
I guess he does suck.
Speaker 2 (26:18):
I always yeah, man, I just blew right past this,
Like I never really thought about it.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
I was like, that's funny.
Speaker 2 (26:25):
Uh so for real, Like I always thought the King
of All Cosmos, well that's stupid.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
That's literally all I ever thought about it.
Speaker 2 (26:31):
And now I'm like, man, I really considering what this
game is about in a new way. Uh like's what
do you make of his voice being a record scratch?
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Like, since we're like dissecting the narrative.
Speaker 4 (26:43):
Here, I do like that. I like that it keeps
it like it's since he's supposed to be godlike not
really understanding him. Is That's how I like interpreted that, Like,
oh my little human ears can't even decipher what he says.
Speaker 2 (26:58):
Okay, apparent according to Wikipedia, he has a true voice
that is, like that sings a song called the Song
for the King of Kings. Uh Like, so he does
have a voice. I think the record scratch is more
of an approximation. Uh it's this fucking banana.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
But like like what come?
Speaker 2 (27:21):
What came to mind for me is I was like
thinking about him and the record scratch voices, like, uh
is that Lauren Hill video Everything is everything? Mm hmm,
you know the one I'm talking about where like it's
the entire city of New York is on a turntable.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
Mm hm.
Speaker 2 (27:38):
You know, and I like I kind of feel like
in a way like that's the conceit of this universe.
Like it's not a turntable exactly, but there's a kind
of musicality, like a sort of a whimsical musicality to it,
and everything is based around the idea of rolling things
up or spinning them around, you know, Like there's a
(27:59):
there's a motion to.
Speaker 5 (28:00):
Kind of goes in tune with the soundtrack.
Speaker 3 (28:03):
Yeah, absolutely, so like uh yeah, it's this.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
It's almost this sort of like uh, the simplification of
the universe into like these very simple, digestible pieces.
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Yeah, but they still have meaning.
Speaker 4 (28:19):
Yeah, and like it the game shrinks. As much as
the game complains about like oh, your your clumps are
not big enough, they're still like it's making the universe
way smaller, Like does that make sense?
Speaker 3 (28:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Yeah, yeah, no it is, that's right. You are growing
bigger and the universe is getting smaller.
Speaker 3 (28:40):
That's right. Uh yeah, And.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
It's like like there's a lot of stuff kind of
happening in the background that the more you think about it,
the more it's like, is the game entirely nonsensical or
is it actually trying to say something that's like somewhat profound.
Speaker 3 (28:54):
And I'm kind of like right in the middle of
those two. Would you call this game profound? Hannah? Is
that too far?
Speaker 5 (29:02):
I don't know. I don't I don't know the intent
behind this game. I think it can be interpreted that
way for sure.
Speaker 3 (29:15):
Interesting what about you Star? Is it?
Speaker 4 (29:19):
My instinctual thing to say would be like no, because
it is such a simple, like it's very clearly like
they came up with a really good like game dynamic,
like oh, you're a small thing that rolls up something big,
and then they made a story around that, you know,
Like I feel like they came up with how to
play first, and then they're like, well, how do we
(29:41):
turn this into a game after? So I think in
that sense it's not that profound, but they did choose
to like make these characters the way they are and
in such a way that does like trigger these emotional,
you know, little like moments. So so maybe I don't
(30:07):
it's such a simple game. I don't want to give
it all that much more credit. But at the same time,
maybe it deserves it. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
Well, I mean, it is fascinating to think that they
decided to make the antagonist of the game, who is
your father, gigantic, right, and the game is fundamentally about
you growing to be his size, you know, and to
do that you need to basically subjugate or minimize everything else. Yeah,
(30:38):
to become part of the star.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
I don't know how much.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
I mean, you know, like creative writing prompt you know,
that's what this could be if we really wanted to
and find interesting meaning in it. But like it's not nothing, right,
you know, like it's not purely nothing, And I think
if it was purely nothing, we wouldn't like the game
as much.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
You know.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
The thing that actually makes it so enjoyable is not
just that things go in ball ball get bigger that good.
Speaker 3 (31:04):
It's like what.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
You're like that eventually you're able to like roll up
living beings like people and cows and cats are just
part of the ball. You just sucked them up and
that's it. Now, Trees they're part of the ball. Now
you know, homes they're part of the ball. And then
like there's something really fun about that, you know, like
uh like the lego pieces almost.
Speaker 4 (31:25):
Yeah, I just I just look that the meaning of
what Kamar DEMANSI actually like the translation, and it's means
clump yep, and DEMANSI can either mean like spirit or soul,
So it's like clump soul and m I think that
kind of ties into the what you were saying was like,
(31:47):
does this have a lot of death? And it's just like, well,
it's a clump with a little bit of spirit, and
you know it's in the end there there's something there.
But it's still a big ball trash.
Speaker 3 (32:01):
It is still a big ball of trash. Let no
one deceive you.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
You are making a big ball of trash. So I
want to talk a little bit about the game mechanically
if we can.
Speaker 3 (32:13):
I mean, I don't want to. I'd like us to
talk about all of our father issues, so please don't
feel like you have to stop, but I want to
talk a little bit about it mechanically. So earlier I
said that this game was Tetris, and I think we're
all going to agree that the game is fun, right,
Like it's pretty much always fun. Yeah, Okay, I want
(32:33):
to describe for the audience who may or may not
have played this game, like what actually happens, because I
don't think it's totally clear.
Speaker 2 (32:40):
So, like what happens is you, your character is You're
you're sort of piloting your character around, and your character
you can basically sort of rotate them in a three
hundred and sixty degree angle around this ball that you're
pushing forward, right like you're very much like almost like
a dung beetle push.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
You're only using little the little knobs. You don't use
any buttons.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
Correct, there's no buttons this game. It's just sticks. And
the level itself is just a bunch.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Of weirdly shaped versions of everyday objects pretty much, you know,
arranged in a very twee way. Like there's there's like
robotic looking boxy mice running around having a great day.
There's like, you know, food, there's golf clubs, there's milk bottles,
there's you know, uh, there's pails and buckets and just
(33:34):
you know, depending on what the what the theme of this
level is there's a bunch of stuff that may or
may not fit into that strewn around, and your job
is to get it to stick to the ball and
then to to manage how that thing affects the physics
of the ball.
Speaker 4 (33:50):
Yeah, if you gather up, you want to keep the
ball as round as possible because at some point, if
you grab something that's like really irregular shaped, right, it
will really fuck up the way the ball moves. So
you're not trying to like and if something hits you,
you could knock things, get things knocked off your ball,
and then that's a mess too.
Speaker 2 (34:12):
So how often did you have to actually take stuff
off the ball to like fix how it was like built?
Speaker 4 (34:18):
Oh, I just kept rolling with it, awkwardly moving. I'm like,
well this is this is now.
Speaker 3 (34:25):
It's like a bullet wound in your leg. It's like, well,
I'm living with this, I guess I.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
Think eventually as long as you keep picking up more stuff.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Yeah, there were definitely like three or four moments where
like I had shaped my ball so foolishly that I
couldn't get to the next part of the level, Like
there was a chair sticking out or something, and it
legitimately like yeah, you know, laugh and you should because
what a shitty ball I was making.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
Uh And like you legitimately couldn't navigate the thing got
hard to move around, like it became kind of unwieldy.
But the game is designed perfec where it's always a
little unwieldy, like it's never easy to operate this thing,
like it's a little you feel a little bit like
you can't totally control.
Speaker 4 (35:08):
It if you go backwards. It's so slow.
Speaker 3 (35:11):
Yes, yes, that's right.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
It punishes you for for making a mistake, like it's
like no, no, you always got to be moving forward.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
And uh, I thought there was. There's something brilliantly frustrating
about losing anything attached to the ball, like anytime you
lose a single thing, like that fucking cat is coming back,
like it.
Speaker 4 (35:33):
Moves, especially if it's like a moving thing like if
you catch a bird, Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (35:37):
Yeah yeah yeah yeah. Also there's so many thrilling discoveries
of things that are going to stick to the ball, right,
like this isial When you first start the game, you
don't necessarily think these living creatures are going to become
part of the ball. Yes they are. They're all it's
all going in uh.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
And it's a great moment the first time you capture
a bird and it's sitting there fluttering helplessly.
Speaker 3 (35:59):
In its doom. If you're like, nah, man, you're part
of the ball. Sorry, the ball, part of the ball, bros.
That's how it goes. When did you first play this game? Guys?
Speaker 4 (36:08):
I want to say, I think I just moved out
to la I feel maybe older than that, but I
want to say, it's like, when did this come out?
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Originally? It was in the early two thousands.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
I want to say, I'm going to not conspicuously type
words into my computer and see if it will tell
me exactly when it came out.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
It was for the PlayStation two. It came out in
two thousand and four, March two and four for Japan.
Speaker 4 (36:42):
I'm remembering now. I was definitely just out of college
at my first job, because I became a little obsessive
about the game, and my coworkers printed me out a
tiny prince and I had it up on my.
Speaker 5 (36:55):
Desk.
Speaker 4 (36:55):
So yeah, around that, just out of college is when
I first played this game.
Speaker 3 (36:59):
Incredible, Hannah, what about you?
Speaker 5 (37:03):
I only played the rebooted version. I had seen. I
used to watch actually videos of people like other people
playing the PlayStation versions to go to sleep because it's
very kind of soothing in a weird way. But I'd
never actually played it until like maybe four years.
Speaker 3 (37:20):
Ago, Okay, so fairly recently. Interesting.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Yeah, I also only played it recently because it had
gotten like I had just heard so many people who
gave me like the down their nose look, you know,
just like you haven't played Catamari, Damasey, what are you
some kind of a son of a bitch, you know,
like just just some just they like it's sort of
I guess assumed among the the known video game elite,
(37:47):
Like you gotta play this game.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
And I got to tell you. Once I played it,
I could see why. Yeah, it's it's.
Speaker 4 (37:53):
The perfect game of Oh I have half an hour
to kill. I'd like to play a video game and
not get like super involved either, And it's like I'm
just gonna pop in for like a little minute before
i have to go do something else.
Speaker 5 (38:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:07):
And I think it's it's rare in art in general
that you get to play something that feels like a
unique person made this and like this is their personality.
Speaker 4 (38:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:17):
And I'm enjoying it for all of its sort of
effervescent individuality. This game is This game and its creator,
I assume are are inextricably linked, and it's a product
of one brain, and that it's a marvelous brain.
Speaker 3 (38:34):
You know.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
It's just such a that's a thrilling thing when you
get to see something like that for the first time.
Speaker 4 (38:41):
A quick rundown of the from the from the creator,
like just a great quick summary. So Takahashi artist who
went to university for sculpting.
Speaker 3 (38:53):
He's a sculptor, Okay, sure makes sense.
Speaker 4 (38:56):
He came to the philosophy that his art needed to
combine practical elements along with whimsy and humor. So, like
going to school, that was his whole deal. Everything I
make needs to have whimsy and humor. Then he got
hired by Yeah, Then he got hired by Namco, who
at the time I think was just making like fighting
games and yeah, yeah, and so he was assigned to
(39:19):
come up with like these silly games, and he developed
the characters for Katamari. First, they were supposed to be
in something else, Like they were supposed to be hammers,
which is why their heads are that shape.
Speaker 2 (39:27):
That makes sense I was always gonna like, I wondered
if there'd be an answer to why are their heads
so weird?
Speaker 4 (39:33):
Yeah, so they were originally supposed to be like hammering,
and it like the game had like the classic kind
of like the King's the wife, the queen was kidnapped
and the king told the prince to go get the
wife because he didn't want to do it, which there
was still always the element of that dad sucks and
they like put akebash on that because you know video
(39:54):
game industry. And eventually he was put in charge of
another like come up with something for all these introns
that we just hired to do, and he thought of
that simple like what about just a mechanic of going
from small to big? And they're like, great, love it.
Let's get all these newbies on this game, so we
give them something to do. And that's how this game started.
(40:16):
It was just and they told him to go use
those characters from that old game and wow. So so yeah,
he's just a dude who's simple concept, wanted to make
something kind of fun and lighthearted and got a team
of just fresh out of college game designers who wanted
to bake something with him.
Speaker 3 (40:36):
It seems this.
Speaker 2 (40:36):
Didn't seem like every cool story for a thing is
like some college student who just had a cool idea,
Like it doesn't he just feel like like there's just
like a window where like, man, uh, we should we
should be letting more talented youths that are between the
ages of twenty two and thirty two just try a
thing if they can.
Speaker 4 (40:57):
Yeah, apparently almost didn't release it. They were weren't sure
about it because it was such a weird game, but
they took it to like some convention, like a gaming
convention in Japan and like teased it and people were like,
this is the best one is this coming out? And
so namcos well, oh fuck, we should release this, and
then they did, and then on a I guess then
(41:18):
and then because of how successful it was in Japan,
they kind of were like, Okay, let's just release it elsewhere,
and they did, but they didn't like there wasn't a
lot of people in the OG game like knowing what
this was in the US, because they did. Sure, you know,
it's a weird ass game.
Speaker 3 (41:35):
I think, And also like we can't underestimate how how
cautious an audience probably is when everything about the packaging
of it is like this is weird and foreign, you
know what I mean. Like, like, I think we've all
seen that audiences are initially reluctant to embrace things that
(41:57):
they don't immediately connect to, And this game makes absolutely
no apologize for its uh, for its strangeness, you know,
and I love that about it.
Speaker 5 (42:08):
Yeah, that's what I love about it too. I think
the reason we a lot of these stories are about
young people is not because it's not because they have
like purer, simpler ideas, it's that they are willing to
go with those ideas with their whip points.
Speaker 4 (42:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (42:29):
I think there's a lot actually in this game about
how like self doubt becomes ingrained through society and stuff,
or I don't, I don't know how like just messages
we get that we internalize from a dumb ass king
character or whatever.
Speaker 3 (42:46):
It is, or would internalize if we weren't all so old.
Speaker 4 (42:52):
Uh. Apparently apparently the King's last message at the end
of the sequel was don't expect an that sequel. Live
in the moment. This is one of the most important
lessons in life.
Speaker 3 (43:03):
So he like turned it all around.
Speaker 4 (43:06):
Yeah, So he ends the game with a like I
guess like hopeful message, you know, but it's also like
you're still a dick, though I wouldn't.
Speaker 5 (43:16):
Like, Yeah, how dare you put me through these entire
games and then tell me to live in the moment,
you asshole?
Speaker 2 (43:22):
Yeah, with your starhead, your stupid star head. I agree,
the Dead is a stupid star headed asshole. And let's
take that moment. Let's take that thought and contemplate it
a moment as we run into our break and on
the other side we will decide whether this game belongs
on the Celestial hard drive.
Speaker 3 (43:43):
Stay tuned for that.
Speaker 2 (44:00):
And we're back and unfortunately there's a giant ball it's
going to roll us wiggling into it as so we
only have minutes to live. But it's fine because you
know what a fun intro song. By the way, I
feel like the intro song is like a pretty good
test for whether somebody is a psychopath. Like it's like,
just sit them down and play this song, and if
(44:21):
they're not having a good time, Like if you can't
tell they're having a good time, that's something's wrong with them.
Cause like right that game, like it's such a winsome intro.
It made me instantly love this game. Can we get
this done?
Speaker 3 (44:33):
In psychology, I.
Speaker 4 (44:36):
Think I read somewhere or like a long time ago,
like the soundtrack was made with they hired very popular
like jazz musicians and voice actors, but they hired them
like when out of their prime, Like they used to
be popular and people still like them, but since they're
not at their peak, Like that's the people he hired.
(44:59):
So it's like very talent, but we're available.
Speaker 3 (45:02):
Essentially, Yeah, the ill considered the discarded.
Speaker 4 (45:07):
Yeah, and so that's why I like the soundtrack is
so good because it's like very talented jazz musicians and
like voice actors and stuff who were just like waiting
for another gig.
Speaker 2 (45:18):
Yeah, there's a lot of meaning in this little, uh,
this little ball of fury that's being collected slowly, and
I think we've done a pretty nice show. Do you
guys have any last points you want to bring up
before we pass our final checkpoint?
Speaker 3 (45:33):
Anything? Send? Ready to go?
Speaker 5 (45:37):
I feel dad's kind of suck.
Speaker 4 (45:40):
That suck.
Speaker 5 (45:42):
Yeah, some good ones, but most of them, they they
they're just not great.
Speaker 3 (45:51):
Okay, yeah, okay, all.
Speaker 5 (45:54):
Right, Like as a group, there there are good dads, but.
Speaker 3 (46:02):
Why are they mostly bad?
Speaker 2 (46:04):
I want to know, incredible As a person who's never
knowingly fathered a child, I can't answer for that.
Speaker 5 (46:15):
But I also always tell doctors I've never had any
kids that I know of, and they never laugh. Yeah. Dead.
Speaker 4 (46:25):
Just to be slightly contradictory with this as well, but
in the game, you rarely see like his mother who
definitely does exist.
Speaker 3 (46:33):
Oh yeah, that's right.
Speaker 4 (46:35):
I don't I don't know what her deal is. I
don't know if she's also abandoned this little prince. Who knows,
but she's an absence mom.
Speaker 2 (46:48):
Who could deal with him for that long, you know
what I mean. She's like, look, I gotta live for me.
I gotta be queen of my own cosmos.
Speaker 3 (46:53):
You know.
Speaker 5 (46:55):
Then take us with you, Yeah, take take take the.
Speaker 4 (46:58):
Little prince with you, Like you find out later there's
a bunch of cousins too, who are also adorably designed.
But yeah, like, no one's watching out for these little ones.
And maybe it's just the culture of these space beings
to be like this is how you raise tiny ones.
But I mean, maybe I'm not going to give the
mom and this props either.
Speaker 2 (47:19):
I know, I'm not really giving anybody props because let's
be honest. You are committing genocide. Okay, this's what's happening here.
You are destroying entire civilizations as part of your quest
to please Dad. So you know, nobody comes out a
winner here except the player who has the best time
(47:39):
of their life.
Speaker 3 (47:41):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (47:42):
Okay, I guess we're gonna pass our final checkpoint. Then
ruminating on the failures of our fathers, and decide does
this game deserve to be put forever enshrined on the
celestial hard drive so aliens can see it, you know,
as long as it doesn't get rolled up into a
ball of weird crap.
Speaker 1 (48:00):
What do you think, Hannah, I think considering that this
game would be kind of how aliens perceive not just
our civilization, but our family dynamics.
Speaker 3 (48:15):
Uh.
Speaker 5 (48:18):
And it would be super meta to kind of roll
this up and put it into space. I would definitely
put it there.
Speaker 2 (48:27):
Love it great reasons. I'm all in love. I love
your reasoning.
Speaker 3 (48:31):
Uh. Starr, what about you?
Speaker 4 (48:34):
I I like, if it's to preserve things like as
a time capsule, I would say yes, Okay. If we're
doing it to communicate with aliens, absolutely not. Do not
want to give them ideas?
Speaker 3 (48:50):
Good point.
Speaker 4 (48:50):
I don't would not want them to come over and
be like, oh, they want us to come roll them up.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
I think I think what we're learning is that both
of you take your video game. Now rative's extremely seriously.
Speaker 3 (49:01):
Like absolutely very serious about them, which I love. I
think that's great.
Speaker 4 (49:07):
But if it's Time Capsule purposes, then yeah, absolutely put
this thing in there, like especially the soundtrack.
Speaker 2 (49:13):
Okay, yeah, definitely. Since since we don't currently know in
the aliens and therefore it's hard to target specifically to
an alien's point of view, I think Time Capsule is
probably a more useful way to think about what this is.
I think, honestly, it's one of a kind, and there
(49:35):
just aren't that many games that are one of a kind.
There's lots of games that invented new things, and there's
lots of games that were important in shaping what video
games are.
Speaker 3 (49:48):
I don't know of any.
Speaker 2 (49:48):
Other games that learned stuff from Katamari Domasy, like I
don't see a lot of like games imitating or copying
it so much. But it's also a unique world that
is brilliant and simple and beautiful. Actually, and especially because
I was not emotionally harmed by this poor father figure.
(50:09):
I think it absolutely belongs on the Celestial Art Drive.
I honestly, I think it's a great game and a
great example of what the art form can be, and
it totally belongs, And I think Mike would agree. But
he's welcome to argue in a hard Drive episode if
he doesn't degree, He's welcome.
Speaker 3 (50:27):
To do that. Friends, what a joy having you on.
Thank you so much for joining us.
Speaker 4 (50:35):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 5 (50:37):
This is fun.
Speaker 2 (50:38):
Thank you, It's always fun to have you guys on
star Where can people find you and your gorgeous artworks
that deserve to be known and shared?
Speaker 4 (50:48):
You could find my art at starline arts dot com.
That's my Etsy shop where you could purchase a sticker
or two. You could also find me on Twitter at
starline x and on insta as star Line also pronounts Starlene,
but for spelling purposes, star Line is the easiest way
to go about that.
Speaker 3 (51:08):
Thank you so much. Hannah. What about you?
Speaker 2 (51:10):
Where can we find your comedy stylings?
Speaker 5 (51:15):
My soon to be short lived or at least check
mark removed. Twitter is at Hannah Michael's h A N
A M I C H E L S. I put
the most things on there. Because I don't like to
show my face, but I'm gonna have to if I
have to pivot to TikTok or Instagram. They're the same handles.
Speaker 3 (51:34):
So okay, yeah, are you gonna pivot to TikTok and Instagram?
Speaker 5 (51:38):
I mean, I feel like it's gonna have to be
It's gonna be inevitable at some point, like unless someone
comes up at the suitable replacement platform that enough people
to get on.
Speaker 4 (51:53):
Yeah, but something might come up. I mean, we used
to have live journals in myspaces. There's got to be
a new one eventually.
Speaker 3 (52:00):
I had the best MySpace star. You wouldn't even believe
it like I had, Like, okay, I had all it
was black background, purple text.
Speaker 4 (52:07):
What was your song?
Speaker 3 (52:08):
Thank you for asking?
Speaker 2 (52:10):
It was Little Eyes by Yola Tango. Look, it was
a real vibe up in Gansas MySpace.
Speaker 5 (52:15):
Man.
Speaker 2 (52:17):
Also, Hannah, I just want you to confirm for the
audience before we actually go, I would look excellent in
the forties. You wouldn't admit it, and I'd like you
to admit it on the podcast. I would look good
at nothing that.
Speaker 5 (52:28):
I wouldn't admit it. All I said was we would
all look excellent in the forties because we don't have
radium poisoning. I'm not saying you wouldn't be exceptionally excellent.
Speaker 3 (52:38):
Thank you would thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (52:40):
That's all I needed. I should have been in the forties.
The best outfits for me. Somebody else said I'd look
good in the sixties. No, I'd look ridiculous. The forties
are the only other time I could have lived.
Speaker 3 (52:52):
Big suits, Yeah yeah, big suits.
Speaker 1 (52:55):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, I see it is that hats.
Speaker 3 (53:00):
The hats. They had fucking incredible hats in the forties.
You know.
Speaker 2 (53:05):
There were bad things going on, I'm told in the forties,
but outfit yeah, outfit.
Speaker 3 (53:10):
Wise, I would have done quite well.
Speaker 2 (53:12):
Hey, listen, if you haven't checked out this game and
at our our celebration of it and making fun of
it and stuff hasn't convinced you, please let me encourage you.
Speaker 3 (53:23):
This is a one of a kind experience. It's great.
It's a great and fun video game.
Speaker 2 (53:27):
It's actually fun to watch, it's fun to play with
your friends and stuff, Like I like taking turns. This
is that kind of game. I would say it deserves
your time. Give it a shot. If you enjoyed this podcast.
I would like to hear my voice along with Mike's
voice on other podcasts that are not just about video games,
but stuff like I don't know movies, like what directors do,
(53:48):
like what Friendship's about, how to deal with depression, what's
up with dinosaurs? All that kind of stuff. You can
go over to our Patreon, which is patreon dot com,
forward slash small beans and get just an earful of
all of that. If you like it, stick around, throw
us a couple of bucks. You'll get even more special stuff,
things like talking about the multiverse and others. So thanks
(54:12):
so much to our shipheads for listening in.
Speaker 3 (54:15):
Uh.
Speaker 2 (54:16):
Do you have any last confessions you'd like to put
on Mike, Hannah or her star.
Speaker 4 (54:20):
I'm going to read one last quote from from the Dad,
which was we'd make it much bigger.
Speaker 3 (54:29):
Hannah anything, any crimes you like to commit to or
confess to.
Speaker 5 (54:33):
What did you get something in the mail recently? Did
someone put a flaming bead on your doorstep? What is happening?
Speaker 3 (54:43):
No? That is that coming.
Speaker 5 (54:47):
Controlling you? And you continue to treat me as though
I am still trolling you. It's almost like I have
permanently traumatized your nervous system.
Speaker 3 (54:59):
It is almost like that you're my king of all cosmos.
Speaker 4 (55:02):
I was gonna say, Hanna, you've become the king of
a cosmos.
Speaker 3 (55:05):
I just every time she talks like this, yere oh God,
I swore I would never become my father work completely
h
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