June 29, 2023 • 30 mins
Chuck Rosin returns to continue our BTS conversation.
We finally tell Chuck we really didn’t love the 60s episode and he explains the reason behind it.
With Chuck, we beginning preparing for the changes to come in Season 5. Chuck tells us who almost got Tiffani Thiessen’s part, Who’s the Boss?
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's nine O G one og with Jenny Garth and
Tory spelling. Hello, Charles Rosen.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
He love Jenny and Tory, welcome.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Back our friends.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
What am I? Chuck Chuck liver? And there were you Amy,
Hello there with all the beverages. Hello, beverages.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
It's perfume. It's perfume. We all think she's a boozer too,
but it's really balls of perfume.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
You get me on a really great day. We just
a diagnosis at one thirty that my three year old
granddaughter who had been through the battle Jenny, you remember,
finally today gets diagnosed to all cancer free. S's looking
good and my poor daughter Lindsey just just you know,
(00:53):
when this news came out three weeks ago, she was
that there was more of a thread again. She went,
just you know, just nuts. And so we're all there's
a celebration going on.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Yeah, that's amazing, and you still made time for us.
We're grateful.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
That's amazing. Well that too, you know, but we started
a nice conversation. I had fun last time.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Well that makes me feel terrible that I have to
tell you that I still don't like the episode from
the sixties.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Well, you know, I bet you many times, Amy you
you you stood shoulder to shoulder with the Grand Old Party,
so we would be looking at the history of that
engagement differently.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
So here's my question for you. Not to get right
into it, because I am so happy for your beautiful,
wonderful news.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Here's why I don't like it. And I do think
you're right that I would have liked it more if
the music was the right music. But I am so
invested in these characters, as you know, like I spent
many many years with them in the nineties and probably
again years later and then again now. But I don't
want to see them, even if it's them, even if
(02:04):
it's Tory Spelling and Jenny Garth playing not them.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
So I think, is that the only time that we
do that? We do that?
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Yeah, I have no other one coming.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
With that one, the Western one that's coming later.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Yeah, well you know it just I gotta tell you,
even in a serialized format, even when you're doing thirty two,
you know, and one kind of rolls into the next
and you're keeping the storyline alive, et cetera, et cetera.
Sure you got to come up with ideas I had
(02:41):
already done so many television and it was the twenty
fifth anniversary of Woodstock, sure, and it was the idea
of seeing them be different, that the audience gets to
see them being different people, and it was only imaginary.
And then you get to the end of ye, so
you see the pictures and they those people who were
(03:03):
being described obviously didn't look like our characters. It just
right cultered through it. And I don't know, you know,
we only have the only really record we have of
what we did is what we we ended up putting
on the air. So you look at you guys' performances
(03:23):
in there, and I mean top to bottom everybody because
it was different. Everybody was having a real good time
and that kind of I agree with that. I love
you the experience, you know, just for me who watches
it really closely and you know remembers. Remember I got
(03:45):
to see always outtakes. Jenny and Tory would know what
I'm talking about, you know, when when the kiss would
stop and the actors would break and they would run
to the hills, you know, so I you know when
people were not having this good time together.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Wait, Chuck, do you still have any of those You
got to put those together for us.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
I have to tell you this. This is no criticism
of your beloved father, Torri, but he did not want you. Remember,
Dick Clark was making a fortun with Gagru.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
Bloomers and bloopers and practical.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Jokepers, practical all of that. You know you you probably
hosted it Amy, I don't know, but but uh, but
Aaron had one none none of that. Didn't want us
to keep any of that any editorial group. Uh there
was one good that that was kind of keeping it,
you know within this would be great for that, and
(04:42):
then you know we did the Kabash was put on,
so we never even thought about that.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
You're so right. He didn't like that, Like, don't you
how do you I've never asked you this, Chuck, Like,
what do you think he would think of reality TV?
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I you know, with the first thing that came across
my mind, and this is this is only a compliment.
He would have found a way to own it. Yeah, fair,
you know, he would have found a way. He would
have looked at it as as as business, and he
would have thought of it in terms of you know
(05:21):
what he he would do in it. I mean, and
I think that you know, you guys being so involved
with it over it. I don't think you know, people
also have you know, you know, no choice. This is
what's being done at that point. It's interesting reality television
a little bit of television history here. You know, reality
television really took off during the time of the eighty
(05:43):
eight eighty nine writers strike, and that's when MTV kind
of built on the all their real worlds and started
building out on that, and then it just always would
would keep going. But I remember I was trying to
go into lobudget TV in the late nineties, early oughts.
(06:03):
I was had it down. I had done a low
budget pilot, fun little low budget pilot for Fox called
Damage Goods with Elizabeth Helden's who's gone on to do
lots of great stuff in TV and network TV even
but we and I couldn't and I had it and
(06:24):
it was low budget, but I couldn't. You couldn't get
lower than reality TV right right at that point, you
couldn't compete.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
What do you think Aaron Spelling would have thought of
a podcast like this where his not just his daughter,
but his stars are thirty years later watching the shows again.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Well, I think he'd loved the thirty years later. I
think it blows. I know it blows my mind. And
I think, you know, he maybe had a plan for
it in the thirty years, but I think that truthfully,
you know, and Aaron, I mean, we lived the same thing,
you know, the first seat. It was so precarious and
(07:05):
there was, for lack of a better way to describe this,
and I don't do it with malice, there was, like,
you know, there was so much humiliation in one sense,
Ed Corey, you would understand in the in the in
the sense that we were doing this little fell for
Fox and our ratings weren't good, and we didn't know
what the money we were doing this and we're trying
(07:25):
to get through. This is because he really loved the process.
As opposed to five years before then there was this
was a fully functional studio with this department and that department,
and that superseded all the show departments, you know, And
I guess I should always I don't know how I feel.
(07:47):
I know that we it built back up to that
same thing, especially with the with the CW shows and
you know, and and Charmed and and and everything that
he built right back up that same kind of level
of engagement.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
But the bls who do you believe owns them?
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Which way? Where are they?
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Where are the blooper reels? Like all the outtakes? I
mean not the reels, the outtakes, because we did, am
I wrong? Didn't at some point, like at Christmas parties
when it was just the cast and crew, didn't we
play something that I feel like put together in the
Kenny Millers like.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
But I don't think. I think that had to be
post me. I bet that was after me, because you're right,
you're right, you're right.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
It was towards the edge?
Speaker 2 (08:35):
When when was? When is? When?
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Where are the blooper reels? Where's the outtakes?
Speaker 2 (08:41):
I mean?
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Who would own those?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Chuck?
Speaker 3 (08:43):
The early ones?
Speaker 5 (08:47):
Well, all of the yes, Well, this is the question of.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
There is always a question, and it was raised by
an editor named Jerry Frizell whether a lot of our
material burned hmm, what burned in a laser Pacific fire?
M M wait.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
I'm vaguely remembering this.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yeah, around the turn of the century, around there, I
guess I was not privy to it to years later,
and still I'm not. I can't get my hands on
what exactly was.
Speaker 5 (09:19):
Burned that sounds shady old by CB. I mean, yeah,
your fright, there's CBS firecom you know the ones. It
was funny because, you know, the first time I.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Went to talk to them, David Staff, you know, they're
and his question to me is that he said, well,
how well do you know Tori or Jenny. He said, well,
I haven't talked to them in a long time, you know,
And they said, well, they're selling a show like that.
Because I was trying just to get them interested in
the music, you know, in the music in that at
(09:50):
that time, and that's right when you started going out
with you know, Oh.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
My gosh, we should ask them where those outtakes are.
I I would just personally like to see them, like
when you sign like an NDA or something, just so
we could see them. Yeah, that would be great.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Thanks that. Well, you know, here's an interesting thing that
I've learned subsequently since the last time we talked, which
is there was an article in the La Times that
showed that Moonlighting, thirty something, La Law, Homicide on the Street,
(10:31):
and Northern Exposure, which I actually wrote for all five
of them get no streaming and are not in syndication
because of the music situation. Really and then you think
about the shows that have been stripped. It's not just us,
it's Quantum Leap or Happy Days and others. And so
(10:53):
what gets me amy is that is that ours, the
television industry, is the only one that has there is
no even remote feeling of obligation to preservation. Have it
in the music industry and you have it in the
film industry different ways. I actually went to the to
(11:15):
the federal government. I went to the Library of Congress
and said, how do I get things preserved? Because we're
in the Library of Congress, right, what about like the
museum and we're submitted Your dad did that toy he
submitted the original nine O two one O to the
Library of Congress.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Oh my gosh, this is.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Have our original music preserved because they did it at
the end of every season.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
And what about the Museum of TV and Radio.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
They don't have the original Not a real museum.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Is a museum?
Speaker 2 (11:51):
No, it's it's kind of out of business there, it's
it's not where it should be where I would not.
I reached out to the Television Academy, Yeah, yeah, and
the UH and they were uh and they passed And
I was surprised they have a legacy thing. But their
(12:13):
legacy thing would be to like do interviews with someone
like your dad or now if you were doing it
you maybe you were doing with Shonda Rhymes or or
or or you know Ryan.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
Seacrest.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yeah, you know the just the yes, well you know whoever, yes,
people of real celebrity and real stature, and in that interview,
that's what they're preserving. But it's not the content of
the right right right that really surprised me. But at
the same time, it's just one that's that's not there
and you're seeing it in the nature right now.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
And let me ask you this question thirty years later,
if you if somebody went back to try and get
rights in perpetuity to the original songs, wouldn't it be
cheaper now, because it's so much that music has got
to be cheaper now than at least most of it
than it was even in the nineties.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Well you would think so. But what happened really was
when Napster came out in nineteen ninety nine and people
there wasn't you know, didn't have to buy the recorded
music anymore and wouldn't and didn't. The record industries went
scrambling for places that they could where they had ownership,
(13:34):
and they leveraged this to a nauseating catastrophic level at
the UH. And it was very interesting because you know,
i'd left after I left two and zero a fewyears,
I had one season at Dawson's Creek. That's right, I
said that, And I was not It was not a
I wasn't really that much on the creative enterprise there.
(13:55):
It turned out much more on the business enterprise. And
one if it had to do with get the Music,
that that for a much lower rate because the heads
of the studios at Warner Brothers at the time felt
that we're giving promotion. Why are we paying all this
money for the promotion that we give? And and it
(14:17):
was really the right way to look at it. But
that was, you know again right at the time, right
before the the market, you know, change humbled.
Speaker 6 (14:29):
Yeah, now not to make an abrupt change in conversation,
do you feel that Brendan, sorry, Brenda, and I know
(14:52):
everyone I.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Get really irrito Peeve and she will.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Call him Brendan.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
But Brandon and Brenda played other and sister slightly too flirty.
That's my one criticism of them. I love them as siblings.
But the kissing on the cheek and then grabbing of
the waist is slightly strange.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
I don't know, you know, one of the things is
especially from the beginning, and so I go back to
that far. But I think that our audience always knew
we were making a television series, and they did flirt
with each other in that way. I think that the
audience mostly enjoyed it. I think that that at that point,
(15:36):
given the statue that you guys had what you wanted
from it, that they were coming back that they hadn't
seen that. Could it mean that, you know, I wasn't
that much of a stickler. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Chs to me, but you guys can't.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
But you guys noticed it, Like people were like, wait,
they knew that.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
We were making a TV show. No, I know, a
real brother and sister. The way the fans are now
they think it's the burial brother and sister.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
I it was, I know, but at the time, like,
did you guys watch dailies and say like, oh, why
is that happening? But okay, it's fine, like or no
one noticed.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
It very obvious.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Somebody had to notice. Yeah, no, we noted, we knew
what was going on we had we watched it. Well,
that was one of the things stories. And Jenny, I
don't know when you were making your shows if you
had a luxury of doing that, but you know, one
of the key things was to be the first to
get to watch dailies, to get it before anybody else thought.
(16:37):
So you knew, and you could be and you could
be conversant because, yeah, your dad would watch dailies and
he he would get worried. As he was your dad,
he'd worried about things. So you better knew what was
going on in dailies and and and stuff and and
be able to be conversant.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Chuck's we're we're we're in season four. This is the
very end of season four on our podcasts.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
All that great stuff you did.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Jenny, Shannon, Oh, thank you. Shannon is going to be
leaving the show the beginning of season five, end of season.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Four, right, correct? Yeah, did did you know, like at the.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
What point did you know that she was not going
to be returning and what at what point did we know?
Because we're having trouble remembering the timeline of it all.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Fair enough, it was it was when we got picked
up for season five.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Nil, because was that when we were we.
Speaker 7 (17:42):
When it was that was when it was clear when
the network picked us up for season five was about
I think Shannon at that.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
There was when we were doing a pig as a
boy as a dog, all the environmental yeah ones, the
animal rights ones, yes, okay, so there you go, Amy,
Why did I do animal rights ones? Well? Fun? First
of all, Larry Mullen had an idea about and he
wanted to do it.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
I was all for those.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Diane's reasonch yes, But I mean I got that because
Jenny was was interested in Peter at that point and
had interesting you know, it's just oh, well, my cats,
so this art will. So I tried to always do
things that you guys were well, I was seeing in
your personal life I could incorporate into these characters. I
(18:32):
tried to do that at least I'm all for that.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
I also love the sort of even though the other
characters were in it. I love when Brandon went to
San Francisco and it's sort of a Brandon centric episode.
I even like when when Dylan goes off what's her name?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Jenny? Oh? And am all I get is yes? Say it?
When we started that was the A story and the
B story had to do with Dana getting roughed up
by David Arquette. That was the story, if you'll notice
(19:10):
in the episode that's completely shifted around, And we just
kept cutting it and cutting it and cutting it because
it really was it was an experimenting quite couldn't work.
We thought it would be really cool. And I bet
if it wasn't in the hands of a different director
at that moment, no offense to my director friend who
(19:31):
directed it, it would be a different It would have
worked slightly better.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
So I have a question. Sorry, So us watching it
back now as fans in a different way obviously than
how we experienced it originally, we are seeing foreshadowing, so
we thought, oh, they must have known Shannon was leaving
like it just there's so many signs. Was that Did
you put that in on purpose because it was questionable?
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Well, we well, you really got to go back since
you're when that's this conversation you you really have to
go back to when we started season four and and
Brenda went to a different university. I mean, we used
all that to sort it out and try to let's
calm things down, Let's let's have a little summer break.
(20:23):
We don't have to shoot summer episodes for the first time,
you know, we had a little little bit of a breather,
all of us, and and that was the first time
to see how it would all work, uh in the
in the season. Uh and and once it it fell apart,
you know when when at that point, that's when the
(20:45):
clean break happened and we were all gonna be moving
on and your dad even had second thoughts about that,
you know, we I don't. I don't think I said
that on this podcast, but I said it on the
other one that I got a call from business affairs
that he still was going to send out the pickup
letter to to Shanon. Did my business affairs person want
(21:08):
me to do that? I know, we better check. We know, no, no, no,
please don't. And you know when Deck down and reminded
Aaron that the network had signed off on this and
it was the right decision for us right at that moment,
it felt like for the show. And then I often
feel and this is what you guys were talking about,
(21:31):
starting kind of for me with the sixties episode, but
certain moving into Divas in that is that she connect
reconnected with the character reconnected, Yeah, and really brought Berenda
Brenda to life in a way that look, the whole
(21:51):
arc that you had, story arc that she had with
the rich boy m hm, David Gale a nice guy,
nice actor. We all liked David mm hmm. But that
was one that was done off to the side so
there wouldn't have to be interactions and fictions and whatever
else would be going on. I mean, we did think
so guilty as charged weed to affect ourselves.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Were you worried on your side of things? How her
absence would you know, affect the show in the ratings.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
I let mister do the worrying for me, you know,
I just had to get all this big number done.
And I felt that Look, as I've said, I think
we talked about it, I always feel I did five
different TV series and building it and developing it with
in season five and creating you know, the Valerie character,
(22:55):
and knowing we were becoming just straight into a pure
serialization and that and that it was heading that way
after my tenure even more so, you know we we
uh so that was I was, well, we did lose Ray.
We certainly we didn't catapult, but certainly, uh you know,
(23:18):
Brenda Shannon had a following, and and uh, and there
are people who pick up the show new and then
who move away from it. But I felt that I
felt really good going into season five. I feel whethered it.
You know, we made the transition into college. Our ratings
are really strong. And I had this great moment that
(23:42):
as you're getting near to the end of it, because
you're gonna pay off the the storyline with with Dylan
and his and his his estate and being ripped off.
And when I originally pitched it to your dad with
Jessica Klein, and he said, you know, Chuck, they're gonn't know,
(24:06):
they're going to see that these people are grifters. And
and I said, Aaron, trust me, I'm going to carry
this over fifteen episodes, and by the time we get
to the end, you won't even won't even cross your mind.
And you get to that end episode, those last few shots, right,
you know, and people were not expecting it, and it
was a first and the critics liked being full or
(24:28):
having a different thing there, and so some of them
who were not our big fans started to become fans.
And it was a good It was a good time.
Speaker 4 (24:36):
Yeah, we only know because we know. I'm not sure
I would suspect it. I didn't know. It all seems
kinda peache weachee.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Because there are times we've talked about this watching back
as fans now that there's a storyline that'll start and
it happens too fast, so we see it coming on
with the end will be So it's nice that the
Kevin Susanne Erica was fifteen episodes.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
It's hard. I mean I remember sitting doing this with
my kids back in the day, you know, and I
try to show them the great shows of the movies
and things of the seventies and this, and it just
all moved away too slow, you know, you know the
facing is such Yeah, no that the patients for that,
you know you want to Yeah, it's that they do
(25:21):
condense and move.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
And today, I mean, things are so nobody has any
patience for anything. Can you imagine this show today?
Speaker 3 (25:31):
You have one scene to get to lock them in.
That's it. Like, I know we're not at season five yet,
but we did mention Valerie Tiffany. Was there anyone up
for the character of Valerie or was it always Tiffany?
Speaker 2 (25:47):
You know, I've been reminded that it was. They were
also that who was the terrific? Oh god, I'm doing
such to have a senior moment, And who's the boss?
Who was the Yeah, I think a listen, your dad
liked her a lot, clearly because then he did go
on yeah, and he was always a fan wanting to
(26:10):
use her, and and I was, you know, I just
was gonna work with whoever it was. I mean, you know, well,
you know Tiffany's from Saved by the Bell. I had,
you know, my my relationship to Saved by the Bell
was with the executive producer, who I would call up
every once in a while because he would just blatantly.
Once we got to college, he just stole everything we did.
(26:34):
And I would call him on the phone and go,
what do you? What do you? And he was shameless
about it. There's another guy named Tommy Lynch. Do you
know Tommy Lynch? Aamie, No, Oh, Tommy's that she just shameless.
I mean producers who just don't think of this and
oh yeah it's fine, and so I so, you know,
I didn't know much about her, but she certainly wasn't
(26:55):
she was Saved by the Bell, and you know, but
I didn't, but they could play this different kind of
character in this would have been good. And then I
enjoyed my year with her. I enjoyed season five. I
liked you know where we what we did, and.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
Yeah, we haven't even gotten to Jamie Walters, like, we've
got a lot. There's some big names in season five,
like Jamie.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
There's some other Well, Jamie came because he had the
independent relationship after how do You Talk to an Angel?
Speaker 4 (27:23):
And after yeah, crazy, I think I think Casper van
Dien comes. I might be an idiot. I think come, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Well they know you guys had nice Kivy. He was terrific.
But the fact of the matter is we went we
had to go. We're going with the working class guy.
That's where we were going. We had to stir up
the drama there.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
Get we haven't even gotten Rebecca Gayheart. I think we
don't really jump the shark till sorry.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
You take that back.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
Sorry, maybe seven eight. I think five six, it's still
very solid. Anyway, Well, Chuck, you're the best. Sorry, Look,
I love it all, except for maybe the sixties episode.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
We should do.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
This at the end of every season. Have Chuck on
for like a we have like make our list of
story of questions through the season and then have them
back on at the end of it.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
We're five after that.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Yeah, we can still have you on for your.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Please Joe, just chance to get to see you both. Thanks.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
I like it makes me feel so happy being with you,
even though it's on zoom, but being with you and
getting to hear the memories and how you know, I
mean to me, it's like, I know this sounds crazy,
but it was like my dad like was the boss,
but you were my boss too. So now being able
to have a relationship that I can ask you, like,
(28:47):
how did this work out? Why did this happen? Ask
you questions now that I you know, didn't feel like
I could ask back then you know.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Right right, Well, what we did on the other way,
we don't do very that much on the other on
the other show, but we we did one with on
the early episode, the seventeen year itch from season one,
so Carol Potter was there, and it's a surprising just
you know how that one actual hold I held up,
(29:13):
you know, and the network, the network kept at that
going way back in the way back machine. You know,
we need adult appeal, We need adult appeal, So we
did an adult to show, No more, adult show, no more?
What did you do that? You know?
Speaker 4 (29:30):
Oh my gosh, Well, Chuck, we're so happy about your
wonderful news and you're so the best.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Correct questions you.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
Yeah, we're gonna I'll email you so come so we.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Can do you again.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Bye, thank you, bye bye.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
I want to squash him.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
He's he's got a better memory than you guys.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
He's can make it up and he's.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Good to just believe. I believe it. Everything is one.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Oh my gosh. I just want to hear so many
stories because I feel like those are the things I
didn't hear from my dad back then, Like I did,
I didn't nowadays. If if he was around, I would say,
well he would that he'd be a hundreds, so that
wouldn't make sense to ask him questions now, But like
I want it as an adult, I would want to say, like,
why'd you do this? What are the choices? So it's
like vicariously I get to hear it like I get
(30:20):
to hear from Chuck, and I want to hear all
the stories, all the decisions and what was the process
behind them.
It's nine O G one og with Jenny Garth and
Tory spelling. Hello, Charles Rosen.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
He love Jenny and Tory, welcome.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
Back our friends.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
What am I? Chuck Chuck liver? And there were you Amy,
Hello there with all the beverages. Hello, beverages.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
It's perfume. It's perfume. We all think she's a boozer too,
but it's really balls of perfume.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
You get me on a really great day. We just
a diagnosis at one thirty that my three year old
granddaughter who had been through the battle Jenny, you remember,
finally today gets diagnosed to all cancer free. S's looking
good and my poor daughter Lindsey just just you know,
(00:53):
when this news came out three weeks ago, she was
that there was more of a thread again. She went,
just you know, just nuts. And so we're all there's
a celebration going on.
Speaker 3 (01:05):
Yeah, that's amazing, and you still made time for us.
We're grateful.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
That's amazing. Well that too, you know, but we started
a nice conversation. I had fun last time.
Speaker 4 (01:17):
Well that makes me feel terrible that I have to
tell you that I still don't like the episode from
the sixties.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
Well, you know, I bet you many times, Amy you
you you stood shoulder to shoulder with the Grand Old Party,
so we would be looking at the history of that
engagement differently.
Speaker 4 (01:35):
So here's my question for you. Not to get right
into it, because I am so happy for your beautiful,
wonderful news.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Thank you.
Speaker 4 (01:41):
Here's why I don't like it. And I do think
you're right that I would have liked it more if
the music was the right music. But I am so
invested in these characters, as you know, like I spent
many many years with them in the nineties and probably
again years later and then again now. But I don't
want to see them, even if it's them, even if
(02:04):
it's Tory Spelling and Jenny Garth playing not them.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
So I think, is that the only time that we
do that? We do that?
Speaker 4 (02:12):
Yeah, I have no other one coming.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
With that one, the Western one that's coming later.
Speaker 2 (02:20):
Yeah, well you know it just I gotta tell you,
even in a serialized format, even when you're doing thirty two,
you know, and one kind of rolls into the next
and you're keeping the storyline alive, et cetera, et cetera.
Sure you got to come up with ideas I had
(02:41):
already done so many television and it was the twenty
fifth anniversary of Woodstock, sure, and it was the idea
of seeing them be different, that the audience gets to
see them being different people, and it was only imaginary.
And then you get to the end of ye, so
you see the pictures and they those people who were
(03:03):
being described obviously didn't look like our characters. It just
right cultered through it. And I don't know, you know,
we only have the only really record we have of
what we did is what we we ended up putting
on the air. So you look at you guys' performances
(03:23):
in there, and I mean top to bottom everybody because
it was different. Everybody was having a real good time
and that kind of I agree with that. I love
you the experience, you know, just for me who watches
it really closely and you know remembers. Remember I got
(03:45):
to see always outtakes. Jenny and Tory would know what
I'm talking about, you know, when when the kiss would
stop and the actors would break and they would run
to the hills, you know, so I you know when
people were not having this good time together.
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Wait, Chuck, do you still have any of those You
got to put those together for us.
Speaker 2 (04:08):
I have to tell you this. This is no criticism
of your beloved father, Torri, but he did not want you. Remember,
Dick Clark was making a fortun with Gagru.
Speaker 4 (04:20):
Bloomers and bloopers and practical.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Jokepers, practical all of that. You know you you probably
hosted it Amy, I don't know, but but uh, but
Aaron had one none none of that. Didn't want us
to keep any of that any editorial group. Uh there
was one good that that was kind of keeping it,
you know within this would be great for that, and
(04:42):
then you know we did the Kabash was put on,
so we never even thought about that.
Speaker 3 (04:47):
You're so right. He didn't like that, Like, don't you
how do you I've never asked you this, Chuck, Like,
what do you think he would think of reality TV?
Speaker 2 (05:01):
I you know, with the first thing that came across
my mind, and this is this is only a compliment.
He would have found a way to own it. Yeah, fair,
you know, he would have found a way. He would
have looked at it as as as business, and he
would have thought of it in terms of you know
(05:21):
what he he would do in it. I mean, and
I think that you know, you guys being so involved
with it over it. I don't think you know, people
also have you know, you know, no choice. This is
what's being done at that point. It's interesting reality television
a little bit of television history here. You know, reality
television really took off during the time of the eighty
(05:43):
eight eighty nine writers strike, and that's when MTV kind
of built on the all their real worlds and started
building out on that, and then it just always would
would keep going. But I remember I was trying to
go into lobudget TV in the late nineties, early oughts.
(06:03):
I was had it down. I had done a low
budget pilot, fun little low budget pilot for Fox called
Damage Goods with Elizabeth Helden's who's gone on to do
lots of great stuff in TV and network TV even
but we and I couldn't and I had it and
(06:24):
it was low budget, but I couldn't. You couldn't get
lower than reality TV right right at that point, you
couldn't compete.
Speaker 4 (06:31):
What do you think Aaron Spelling would have thought of
a podcast like this where his not just his daughter,
but his stars are thirty years later watching the shows again.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Well, I think he'd loved the thirty years later. I
think it blows. I know it blows my mind. And
I think, you know, he maybe had a plan for
it in the thirty years, but I think that truthfully,
you know, and Aaron, I mean, we lived the same thing,
you know, the first seat. It was so precarious and
(07:05):
there was, for lack of a better way to describe this,
and I don't do it with malice, there was, like,
you know, there was so much humiliation in one sense,
Ed Corey, you would understand in the in the in
the sense that we were doing this little fell for
Fox and our ratings weren't good, and we didn't know
what the money we were doing this and we're trying
(07:25):
to get through. This is because he really loved the process.
As opposed to five years before then there was this
was a fully functional studio with this department and that department,
and that superseded all the show departments, you know, And
I guess I should always I don't know how I feel.
(07:47):
I know that we it built back up to that
same thing, especially with the with the CW shows and
you know, and and Charmed and and and everything that
he built right back up that same kind of level
of engagement.
Speaker 3 (08:03):
But the bls who do you believe owns them?
Speaker 2 (08:08):
Which way? Where are they?
Speaker 3 (08:10):
Where are the blooper reels? Like all the outtakes? I
mean not the reels, the outtakes, because we did, am
I wrong? Didn't at some point, like at Christmas parties
when it was just the cast and crew, didn't we
play something that I feel like put together in the
Kenny Millers like.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
But I don't think. I think that had to be
post me. I bet that was after me, because you're right,
you're right, you're right.
Speaker 3 (08:34):
It was towards the edge?
Speaker 2 (08:35):
When when was? When is? When?
Speaker 3 (08:39):
Where are the blooper reels? Where's the outtakes?
Speaker 2 (08:41):
I mean?
Speaker 3 (08:42):
Who would own those?
Speaker 2 (08:43):
Chuck?
Speaker 3 (08:43):
The early ones?
Speaker 5 (08:47):
Well, all of the yes, Well, this is the question of.
Speaker 2 (08:52):
There is always a question, and it was raised by
an editor named Jerry Frizell whether a lot of our
material burned hmm, what burned in a laser Pacific fire?
M M wait.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
I'm vaguely remembering this.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Yeah, around the turn of the century, around there, I
guess I was not privy to it to years later,
and still I'm not. I can't get my hands on
what exactly was.
Speaker 5 (09:19):
Burned that sounds shady old by CB. I mean, yeah,
your fright, there's CBS firecom you know the ones. It
was funny because, you know, the first time I.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Went to talk to them, David Staff, you know, they're
and his question to me is that he said, well,
how well do you know Tori or Jenny. He said, well,
I haven't talked to them in a long time, you know,
And they said, well, they're selling a show like that.
Because I was trying just to get them interested in
the music, you know, in the music in that at
(09:50):
that time, and that's right when you started going out
with you know, Oh.
Speaker 3 (09:56):
My gosh, we should ask them where those outtakes are.
I I would just personally like to see them, like
when you sign like an NDA or something, just so
we could see them. Yeah, that would be great.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Thanks that. Well, you know, here's an interesting thing that
I've learned subsequently since the last time we talked, which
is there was an article in the La Times that
showed that Moonlighting, thirty something, La Law, Homicide on the Street,
(10:31):
and Northern Exposure, which I actually wrote for all five
of them get no streaming and are not in syndication
because of the music situation. Really and then you think
about the shows that have been stripped. It's not just us,
it's Quantum Leap or Happy Days and others. And so
(10:53):
what gets me amy is that is that ours, the
television industry, is the only one that has there is
no even remote feeling of obligation to preservation. Have it
in the music industry and you have it in the
film industry different ways. I actually went to the to
(11:15):
the federal government. I went to the Library of Congress
and said, how do I get things preserved? Because we're
in the Library of Congress, right, what about like the
museum and we're submitted Your dad did that toy he
submitted the original nine O two one O to the
Library of Congress.
Speaker 3 (11:35):
Oh my gosh, this is.
Speaker 2 (11:38):
Have our original music preserved because they did it at
the end of every season.
Speaker 4 (11:43):
And what about the Museum of TV and Radio.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
They don't have the original Not a real museum.
Speaker 3 (11:48):
Is a museum?
Speaker 2 (11:51):
No, it's it's kind of out of business there, it's
it's not where it should be where I would not.
I reached out to the Television Academy, Yeah, yeah, and
the UH and they were uh and they passed And
I was surprised they have a legacy thing. But their
(12:13):
legacy thing would be to like do interviews with someone
like your dad or now if you were doing it
you maybe you were doing with Shonda Rhymes or or
or or you know Ryan.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
Seacrest.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yeah, you know the just the yes, well you know whoever, yes,
people of real celebrity and real stature, and in that interview,
that's what they're preserving. But it's not the content of
the right right right that really surprised me. But at
the same time, it's just one that's that's not there
and you're seeing it in the nature right now.
Speaker 4 (12:50):
And let me ask you this question thirty years later,
if you if somebody went back to try and get
rights in perpetuity to the original songs, wouldn't it be
cheaper now, because it's so much that music has got
to be cheaper now than at least most of it
than it was even in the nineties.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Well you would think so. But what happened really was
when Napster came out in nineteen ninety nine and people
there wasn't you know, didn't have to buy the recorded
music anymore and wouldn't and didn't. The record industries went
scrambling for places that they could where they had ownership,
(13:34):
and they leveraged this to a nauseating catastrophic level at
the UH. And it was very interesting because you know,
i'd left after I left two and zero a fewyears,
I had one season at Dawson's Creek. That's right, I
said that, And I was not It was not a
I wasn't really that much on the creative enterprise there.
(13:55):
It turned out much more on the business enterprise. And
one if it had to do with get the Music,
that that for a much lower rate because the heads
of the studios at Warner Brothers at the time felt
that we're giving promotion. Why are we paying all this
money for the promotion that we give? And and it
(14:17):
was really the right way to look at it. But
that was, you know again right at the time, right
before the the market, you know, change humbled.
Speaker 6 (14:29):
Yeah, now not to make an abrupt change in conversation,
do you feel that Brendan, sorry, Brenda, and I know
(14:52):
everyone I.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
Get really irrito Peeve and she will.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Call him Brendan.
Speaker 4 (14:57):
But Brandon and Brenda played other and sister slightly too flirty.
That's my one criticism of them. I love them as siblings.
But the kissing on the cheek and then grabbing of
the waist is slightly strange.
Speaker 2 (15:15):
I don't know, you know, one of the things is
especially from the beginning, and so I go back to
that far. But I think that our audience always knew
we were making a television series, and they did flirt
with each other in that way. I think that the
audience mostly enjoyed it. I think that that at that point,
(15:36):
given the statue that you guys had what you wanted
from it, that they were coming back that they hadn't
seen that. Could it mean that, you know, I wasn't
that much of a stickler. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
Chs to me, but you guys can't.
Speaker 3 (15:53):
But you guys noticed it, Like people were like, wait,
they knew that.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
We were making a TV show. No, I know, a
real brother and sister. The way the fans are now
they think it's the burial brother and sister.
Speaker 3 (16:04):
I it was, I know, but at the time, like,
did you guys watch dailies and say like, oh, why
is that happening? But okay, it's fine, like or no
one noticed.
Speaker 4 (16:14):
It very obvious.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Somebody had to notice. Yeah, no, we noted, we knew
what was going on we had we watched it. Well,
that was one of the things stories. And Jenny, I
don't know when you were making your shows if you
had a luxury of doing that, but you know, one
of the key things was to be the first to
get to watch dailies, to get it before anybody else thought.
(16:37):
So you knew, and you could be and you could
be conversant because, yeah, your dad would watch dailies and
he he would get worried. As he was your dad,
he'd worried about things. So you better knew what was
going on in dailies and and and stuff and and
be able to be conversant.
Speaker 1 (16:58):
Chuck's we're we're we're in season four. This is the
very end of season four on our podcasts.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
All that great stuff you did.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
Jenny, Shannon, Oh, thank you. Shannon is going to be
leaving the show the beginning of season five, end of season.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
Four, right, correct? Yeah, did did you know, like at the.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
What point did you know that she was not going
to be returning and what at what point did we know?
Because we're having trouble remembering the timeline of it all.
Speaker 2 (17:29):
Fair enough, it was it was when we got picked
up for season five.
Speaker 1 (17:37):
Nil, because was that when we were we.
Speaker 7 (17:42):
When it was that was when it was clear when
the network picked us up for season five was about
I think Shannon at that.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
There was when we were doing a pig as a
boy as a dog, all the environmental yeah ones, the
animal rights ones, yes, okay, so there you go, Amy,
Why did I do animal rights ones? Well? Fun? First
of all, Larry Mullen had an idea about and he
wanted to do it.
Speaker 4 (18:08):
I was all for those.
Speaker 2 (18:10):
Diane's reasonch yes, But I mean I got that because
Jenny was was interested in Peter at that point and
had interesting you know, it's just oh, well, my cats,
so this art will. So I tried to always do
things that you guys were well, I was seeing in
your personal life I could incorporate into these characters. I
(18:32):
tried to do that at least I'm all for that.
Speaker 4 (18:33):
I also love the sort of even though the other
characters were in it. I love when Brandon went to
San Francisco and it's sort of a Brandon centric episode.
I even like when when Dylan goes off what's her name?
Speaker 2 (18:48):
Jenny? Oh? And am all I get is yes? Say it?
When we started that was the A story and the
B story had to do with Dana getting roughed up
by David Arquette. That was the story, if you'll notice
(19:10):
in the episode that's completely shifted around, And we just
kept cutting it and cutting it and cutting it because
it really was it was an experimenting quite couldn't work.
We thought it would be really cool. And I bet
if it wasn't in the hands of a different director
at that moment, no offense to my director friend who
(19:31):
directed it, it would be a different It would have
worked slightly better.
Speaker 3 (19:37):
So I have a question. Sorry, So us watching it
back now as fans in a different way obviously than
how we experienced it originally, we are seeing foreshadowing, so
we thought, oh, they must have known Shannon was leaving
like it just there's so many signs. Was that Did
you put that in on purpose because it was questionable?
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Well, we well, you really got to go back since
you're when that's this conversation you you really have to
go back to when we started season four and and
Brenda went to a different university. I mean, we used
all that to sort it out and try to let's
calm things down, Let's let's have a little summer break.
(20:23):
We don't have to shoot summer episodes for the first time,
you know, we had a little little bit of a breather,
all of us, and and that was the first time
to see how it would all work, uh in the
in the season. Uh and and once it it fell apart,
you know when when at that point, that's when the
(20:45):
clean break happened and we were all gonna be moving
on and your dad even had second thoughts about that,
you know, we I don't. I don't think I said
that on this podcast, but I said it on the
other one that I got a call from business affairs
that he still was going to send out the pickup
letter to to Shanon. Did my business affairs person want
(21:08):
me to do that? I know, we better check. We know, no, no, no,
please don't. And you know when Deck down and reminded
Aaron that the network had signed off on this and
it was the right decision for us right at that moment,
it felt like for the show. And then I often
feel and this is what you guys were talking about,
(21:31):
starting kind of for me with the sixties episode, but
certain moving into Divas in that is that she connect
reconnected with the character reconnected, Yeah, and really brought Berenda
Brenda to life in a way that look, the whole
(21:51):
arc that you had, story arc that she had with
the rich boy m hm, David Gale a nice guy,
nice actor. We all liked David mm hmm. But that
was one that was done off to the side so
there wouldn't have to be interactions and fictions and whatever
else would be going on. I mean, we did think
so guilty as charged weed to affect ourselves.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Were you worried on your side of things? How her
absence would you know, affect the show in the ratings.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
I let mister do the worrying for me, you know,
I just had to get all this big number done.
And I felt that Look, as I've said, I think
we talked about it, I always feel I did five
different TV series and building it and developing it with
in season five and creating you know, the Valerie character,
(22:55):
and knowing we were becoming just straight into a pure
serialization and that and that it was heading that way
after my tenure even more so, you know we we
uh so that was I was, well, we did lose Ray.
We certainly we didn't catapult, but certainly, uh you know,
(23:18):
Brenda Shannon had a following, and and uh, and there
are people who pick up the show new and then
who move away from it. But I felt that I
felt really good going into season five. I feel whethered it.
You know, we made the transition into college. Our ratings
are really strong. And I had this great moment that
(23:42):
as you're getting near to the end of it, because
you're gonna pay off the the storyline with with Dylan
and his and his his estate and being ripped off.
And when I originally pitched it to your dad with
Jessica Klein, and he said, you know, Chuck, they're gonn't know,
(24:06):
they're going to see that these people are grifters. And
and I said, Aaron, trust me, I'm going to carry
this over fifteen episodes, and by the time we get
to the end, you won't even won't even cross your mind.
And you get to that end episode, those last few shots, right,
you know, and people were not expecting it, and it
was a first and the critics liked being full or
(24:28):
having a different thing there, and so some of them
who were not our big fans started to become fans.
And it was a good It was a good time.
Speaker 4 (24:36):
Yeah, we only know because we know. I'm not sure
I would suspect it. I didn't know. It all seems
kinda peache weachee.
Speaker 3 (24:45):
Because there are times we've talked about this watching back
as fans now that there's a storyline that'll start and
it happens too fast, so we see it coming on
with the end will be So it's nice that the
Kevin Susanne Erica was fifteen episodes.
Speaker 2 (25:01):
It's hard. I mean I remember sitting doing this with
my kids back in the day, you know, and I
try to show them the great shows of the movies
and things of the seventies and this, and it just
all moved away too slow, you know, you know the
facing is such Yeah, no that the patients for that,
you know you want to Yeah, it's that they do
(25:21):
condense and move.
Speaker 1 (25:22):
And today, I mean, things are so nobody has any
patience for anything. Can you imagine this show today?
Speaker 3 (25:31):
You have one scene to get to lock them in.
That's it. Like, I know we're not at season five yet,
but we did mention Valerie Tiffany. Was there anyone up
for the character of Valerie or was it always Tiffany?
Speaker 2 (25:47):
You know, I've been reminded that it was. They were
also that who was the terrific? Oh god, I'm doing
such to have a senior moment, And who's the boss?
Who was the Yeah, I think a listen, your dad
liked her a lot, clearly because then he did go
on yeah, and he was always a fan wanting to
(26:10):
use her, and and I was, you know, I just
was gonna work with whoever it was. I mean, you know, well,
you know Tiffany's from Saved by the Bell. I had,
you know, my my relationship to Saved by the Bell
was with the executive producer, who I would call up
every once in a while because he would just blatantly.
Once we got to college, he just stole everything we did.
(26:34):
And I would call him on the phone and go,
what do you? What do you? And he was shameless
about it. There's another guy named Tommy Lynch. Do you
know Tommy Lynch? Aamie, No, Oh, Tommy's that she just shameless.
I mean producers who just don't think of this and
oh yeah it's fine, and so I so, you know,
I didn't know much about her, but she certainly wasn't
(26:55):
she was Saved by the Bell, and you know, but
I didn't, but they could play this different kind of
character in this would have been good. And then I
enjoyed my year with her. I enjoyed season five. I
liked you know where we what we did, and.
Speaker 4 (27:09):
Yeah, we haven't even gotten to Jamie Walters, like, we've
got a lot. There's some big names in season five,
like Jamie.
Speaker 2 (27:16):
There's some other Well, Jamie came because he had the
independent relationship after how do You Talk to an Angel?
Speaker 4 (27:23):
And after yeah, crazy, I think I think Casper van
Dien comes. I might be an idiot. I think come, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Well they know you guys had nice Kivy. He was terrific.
But the fact of the matter is we went we
had to go. We're going with the working class guy.
That's where we were going. We had to stir up
the drama there.
Speaker 4 (27:45):
Get we haven't even gotten Rebecca Gayheart. I think we
don't really jump the shark till sorry.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
You take that back.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
Sorry, maybe seven eight. I think five six, it's still
very solid. Anyway, Well, Chuck, you're the best. Sorry, Look,
I love it all, except for maybe the sixties episode.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
We should do.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
This at the end of every season. Have Chuck on
for like a we have like make our list of
story of questions through the season and then have them
back on at the end of it.
Speaker 2 (28:16):
We're five after that.
Speaker 1 (28:17):
Yeah, we can still have you on for your.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
Please Joe, just chance to get to see you both. Thanks.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
I like it makes me feel so happy being with you,
even though it's on zoom, but being with you and
getting to hear the memories and how you know, I
mean to me, it's like, I know this sounds crazy,
but it was like my dad like was the boss,
but you were my boss too. So now being able
to have a relationship that I can ask you, like,
(28:47):
how did this work out? Why did this happen? Ask
you questions now that I you know, didn't feel like
I could ask back then you know.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Right right, Well, what we did on the other way,
we don't do very that much on the other on
the other show, but we we did one with on
the early episode, the seventeen year itch from season one,
so Carol Potter was there, and it's a surprising just
you know how that one actual hold I held up,
(29:13):
you know, and the network, the network kept at that
going way back in the way back machine. You know,
we need adult appeal, We need adult appeal, So we
did an adult to show, No more, adult show, no more?
What did you do that? You know?
Speaker 4 (29:30):
Oh my gosh, Well, Chuck, we're so happy about your
wonderful news and you're so the best.
Speaker 1 (29:36):
Correct questions you.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
Yeah, we're gonna I'll email you so come so we.
Speaker 3 (29:43):
Can do you again.
Speaker 2 (29:44):
Bye, thank you, bye bye.
Speaker 1 (29:47):
I want to squash him.
Speaker 4 (29:49):
He's he's got a better memory than you guys.
Speaker 3 (29:52):
He's can make it up and he's.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Good to just believe. I believe it. Everything is one.
Speaker 3 (29:58):
Oh my gosh. I just want to hear so many
stories because I feel like those are the things I
didn't hear from my dad back then, Like I did,
I didn't nowadays. If if he was around, I would say,
well he would that he'd be a hundreds, so that
wouldn't make sense to ask him questions now, But like
I want it as an adult, I would want to say, like,
why'd you do this? What are the choices? So it's
like vicariously I get to hear it like I get
(30:20):
to hear from Chuck, and I want to hear all
the stories, all the decisions and what was the process
behind them.
Hosts And Creators
Tori Spelling
Jennie Garth
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