Alok Vaid-Menon: Accepting Yourself - How to Not Let the Judgement of Others Mold Who You Are - A Really Good Cry

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Nice to meet you. This is a human being with
a beating heart just like yours, someone who cares about
you very much. Just a reminder that we are how
we treat each other. Today you chose animosity, and that
doesn't mean you have to make the same choice tomorrow.
If you spend more time healing than hating, you will
find much magnificence.

Speaker 2 (00:20):
Discrimination has been horrific in my life. It really devastates
me that I experience the most hatred for my own people.
But in the other it's given me a unique opportunity
that most people don't have. When you're outside of the world,
exiled from it, you get to look on it from
a distance. And what I notice as an outsider is

(00:43):
how much I love humans. Why would I deny the
world my beauty? And why would I deny myself my beauty?
How could I come and speak on a podcast about
healing and an unhealed version of myself? Yeah, we have
to live the things that we believe.

Speaker 3 (00:58):
I'm rather Dablikia and on my pod a really good cry.
We embrace the messy and the beautiful, providing a space
for raw and filtered conversations that celebrate vulnerability and allow
you to tune in to learn, connect and find comfort together.
But I'm so excited to have you here, and thank
you so much for being here, because whenever I've thought
about people I want on the podcast, it's been people

(01:20):
that I have either spend a lot of time with
or with you. I haven't spent that much time, but
the time that we have spent has just brought up
so much in my mind in terms of what I've learned,
but also given me such a different perspective that I've
carried with me, and I really wanted to share that,
hopefully with whoever ends up listening to this podcast. So
thank you for being here and for what you've done
for me in my life, whether you know it or not.

(01:42):
One thing that I wanted to ask you every time
I've been around you or seen you. Your elegant confidence
has kind of had me in awe because a lot
of people haven't lived the life that you've lived, but
you still show up as yourself every single day, and
so I wanted to start by asking you, because I
struggled with this, how have you gained this confidence in

(02:05):
your life?

Speaker 2 (02:06):
Well, I wanted to say thank you for having me,
thank you for bringing color to the conversation. I feel
like the alternative was worse of repressing myself took such
a toll on my health holistically when I felt like
I was just a shadow of a person, not a
real person. And so I think the way I became

(02:29):
courageous is I really accounted for how painful it was
to live a lie, how empty I felt, how hollow
all of my interactions were, and I knew that I
never wanted to go back to that where I felt
like a hologram, not a human being. And so even
though it felt intimidating to be myself, it still was

(02:51):
less painful than the alternative. Yeah, but I think what
happens is that so many people are on autopilot of
that ghost self that they just think that that's that
misery is the only way to be well.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
The easier option. Like I find that when you are
in a place in your life and if you've done
something for such a long time, even if it's the
thing that's negative for you, because that feels like comfort,
the alternate of becoming better or becoming a better version
of yourself or your authentic self ends up feeling like
a scarier option. And so you can live your whole

(03:23):
entire life trapped in this version of yourself that isn't
even you. But did you have any specific things that
you did that helped with your confidence, like going from
someone were you someone who was quite shy growing up,
so going from that to then becoming who you are now,
what were the tools and techniques and methods that you
use to bring yourself to this version of you.

Speaker 2 (03:45):
I was so shy that I started to walk when
I went to hide in a cabinet at a family
dinner party. It's yeah. So it's funny because I think
a lot of people known me my entire life, have
seen so many eras, and I think people always want
to have this narrative that you've always been something. But

(04:07):
I think my life is a really great example of
you can totally transform. A practice for me that has
always helped me is writing, because I started writing when
I was maybe eleven or twelve, and at the time
I didn't think what I was doing this poetry. I
was just writing my feelings down I felt like, especially

(04:27):
growing up in an Indian household, no one was really
asking me how I was feeling emotionally. It was only
physically and so I didn't have a place to really
work through my emotions, and so I just started to write.
I would kind of write down what I was feeling,
and then I would share it online under a pseudonym, and.

Speaker 3 (04:46):
Then what was the pseudoname Larry, which is very awkward Larry,
that love Larry.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
And then people all across the world would say like, oh,
what you're writing resonates with me, or I feel the
same way, or I have the the same insecurities or
same doubts, and so it kind of felt like there
was an underworld kind of alongside this one where people
were honest and vulnerable and real, and that was only
available to me through art, and that art was the
place that we could go to actually be a freer

(05:14):
and more honest version of ourselves. And I think that's
true today. That's why we flocked to movie theaters because
what we see represented feels so real and palpable to us. Yeah,
and so writing for me has always allowed me to
take inventory of how I'm actually feeling, because I think
when people ask you how are you, you go into
that autopilot answer. But writing actually allows me to say,

(05:37):
this is what's actually surfacing inside of me. So the
more that I began to write, the more I began
to write myself into existence. I began to say, oh,
I actually didn't really like how I was treated at
one time, or I don't like the person I'm becoming.
Who do I want to become? And I could experiment
and there's less stakes when you're writing it down on
a page. So I kind of planned out who I

(05:58):
wanted to become.

Speaker 1 (05:59):
That's amazing.

Speaker 2 (06:00):
And I think what I was doing in Texas, where
I grew up was I like to think of it.
You know, in one story, it's like a story of
discrimination and bullying and dissociation. But in another story is
the story of dreaming. I just had a lot of
dreams and I would write them down, and then now
I'm lucky enough to be able to live there.

Speaker 3 (06:19):
They always say that creatives an artists. You won't find
an artist, and I guess you won't wanly find a person,
but more so an artist that hasn't been through pain,
because so much beauty comes from it. But I love
what you said about writing because I found that solace
in writing too. But one thing that sometimes stopped me
is because everything is now for show, where when you're

(06:41):
writing online is for show. When you're taking pictures, it's
for show. Where you live in such a world of
show that sometimes I was finding myself if I hadn't
got put pen to paper for a while, I was
filtering myself from myself. And I used to get so
scared in those moments that I don't even want to
know who I am because I'm too scared of putting

(07:03):
pen to paper and seeing it for myself. I really
have to, you know, every time I take a time
away from doing it, I notice when I come back
to it. Because most of my other life is on show,
I fear what's going to come out on paper. So
sometimes what I've ended up doing is like writing and
just throwing it away, or writing and just burning it,
just so that I know that I'm releasing it with
no fear of him someone seeing it. But sometimes it's

(07:25):
you're trying to hide it from yourself because you don't
even want to see it yourself. You said that you
grew up in Texas. I always just want to know
a little bit about how that was coming into yourself,
where in a place that it can be quite difficult
to express your authenticity.

Speaker 2 (07:42):
It was hard because on the one hand, I had
support from my community for the racism we were experiencing.
So I had people around me saying, Okay, what they're
saying about us is so silly. We're amazing and like
celebrating our culture, celebrating our difference. But then when it
came to generous ruality, I had to suffer in isolation

(08:02):
because if I told anyone that I was being bullied,
then that would confirm that I was in fact gay,
and so I didn't want to tell anyone what was happening.
I remember even once my mom got wind of the
fact that I was getting harassed in school, and she
in a car was like, Hey, is this happening to you?
And I felt so embarrassed. I didn't want her to

(08:24):
know that I was being bullied because I did, you
know how Indian families are. I knew that she would
get really upset, and then I didn't want to hurt
her feelings. So I wanted to protect her from the
fact that her child was being persecuted. And I feel
a lot of grief about that now because I know
that I know my parents, and I know that if
I had said, hey, this is happening to me they
would have done something about it. But I think from

(08:47):
a young age, I internalized this idea that I had
to rescue me, that I would have no support from
anyone else around me. So I had to become as
smart as possible. I had to work as hard as possible,
ID be exceptionally articulate and talented so that I could
get out of there. And I think the rewiring of
that as an adult is so hard, and so I

(09:09):
think that's what frustrates me is that our childhoods don't
just stay in our childhood. They cast a shadow for
the rest of our lives. So so many of the
trauma coping strategies I developed. Now my brain is like,
but these are the things that ELP do survive. And
then my adult self is like, but you don't need
to just survive anymore. You can thrive, you can move
beyond that. Maybe you can be mediocre at some things,

(09:30):
maybe you can like be really bad at some things,
and that's amazing.

Speaker 3 (09:33):
Ye, so many things, but it's okay, okay as something.
Believe you said your family, you almost underestimated how supportive
they could be. I do find in our culture we're
kind of I did the same thing. I underestimated how
open I could be with my parents from a young age,
and I think that's quite normal in our culture because

(09:53):
I find that with a lot of my friends who
grew up in you know, other type of religions, other
type of cultures, They'll be so open, they'll say the
randommest things to their parents, and they think they can
do that from a young age. They believe they can.
I feel like it's the closeness, closed mindset that we
see growing up. It's not even what our parents tell us.
It's what we see them do with other people that

(10:14):
makes us think that they are part of that community
or have the same mindset. When I was like thinking
about boys in my family, when I wanted to date someone,
I wouldn't tell them about it. When I was struggling,
whether it was academically or everything, just felt like you're right.
You feel like you have to deal with it yourself
because you don't want to be the failure or the

(10:35):
person that is changing what the expectations are of you
were your family, you said they were supportive and you
regret that and you have you know, how did you
weard it? You said, do you have remore? Yeah? How
were they when you started sharing it coming from the
culture that we're from, How was that for them and
for you?

Speaker 2 (10:55):
I think the problem with being a byproduct of diaspora
is that often the only representation we have of our
brown parents is through white media. Yeah, and so there
was a filter with which I was constantly comparing their
love to the love of the people around me. And
because it looked different, I felt like it was absent.

(11:16):
So because my parents weren't as physically affectionate, yes, or
didn't say that they loved me, I believed that they
didn't love me because that's what my white peers were receiving.
And now as an adult, I'm like, actually, my parents
showed up in such a profound and durable and like
I mean, just like when I was sick, The kind

(11:36):
of devotion and care that I experienced was really unparalleled,
and I think a kind of care that I don't
even have the language for. And I feel like I
could spend the rest of my life trying to learn
that kind of ancestral wisdom that gets activated when someone's sick.

Speaker 3 (11:52):
I completely agree with you. I feel the same way
about my parents. I was talking to someone else recently
and they said, oh, I realized my dad never said
the words I love you to me, And I thought
about it at that moment, and I never realized it
until that point. I was like, my dad has just
about started saying love you when I moved away, and
that for him was at the end of conversation. I
love you, I love you.

Speaker 2 (12:12):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (12:13):
But then I thought about, did I ever feel the
lack of love growing up? No. He was present, he
was attentive. He understood, you know, having two girls in
the family, coming from a dad who is raised in
the generation he was All he wanted was to understand
our emotions, to be there for us, to show up
as the provider, which is how he knew to love.

(12:35):
That was what he was taught to love, is to
provide for my family, to make sure I'm there to
show up. And also somewhat he was there for us
emotionally as because because he was just so he was
such a soft person. He always has been, and I
really appreciated that nature that he carried with him. And
I feel when I feel my parents love most is

(12:56):
when I've learnt so much from how they are as humans,
which means they've done a lot of work on themselves
to even give that to us. I think about the
generic love that we now see, and it's actually so
much more shallow because it's masked in words and performative,
exactly like external expressions versus the acts of service I think.

(13:17):
I think our parents' generation, where their way of showing
love is acts of service. Like you said, when we're unwell,
they will show up with every single herbal remedy that
they know from their grandparents. They will give up everything
to make us food and create that environment for us,
whereas I don't think we have that in us anymore
to even give or experience that with other people.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
I think I'm really trying to learn. Yeah, I feel
like it's frustrating to me often that our only definition
of culture is also very superficial. It's kind of surface,
and for me, culture is actually like a deeper wisdom.
It's a way of observing the world and observing each other.
And especially with the with the passing of my Utima,

(14:01):
my grandmother a few months ago, one of the ways
that I'm processing that grief is really like, how do
I care in the way that she cared for me?

Speaker 3 (14:09):
What do I carry you on? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (14:10):
Carry on that legacy, because when we talk about through
migration losing our culture, I think part of what we're
losing also is that sense of care. And I don't
want to say selflessness, but that sense of devotion. Is
the reason I'm alive is that I've had so many

(14:30):
caregivers in my life who invested so much in me.
I mean, I can't even imagine what it was like
for my parents when I came home and I said,
don't speak our local languages to me. I don't like that.
I don't want to go to the temple. I want
to be just like my peers. I'm embarrassed. I remember
I got into a fight with my nonues where I said,

(14:53):
don't wear a sorry in public when you're going to school,
because then people will look at us. The kind of
care it takes to look at your child that's become
a weapon against everything you are, and to still say
that you love that child and to feed them. I mean,
that's taught me so much about compassion, because I think
my parents knew this isn't you. This is your trauma,

(15:17):
this is your fear, this is your anxiety, this is
your insecurity, and the way that you were going to
school you out of that is by loving you harder
and showing you that the things that you're running away
from are actually the things that you need to be
running toward. And so it's very strange, I think becoming
an adult because I revisit so many foundational scenes that
I was very angry at my parents about and I'm like, actually,

(15:40):
they were in the right, I know, and they saw
something I couldn't see at the time.

Speaker 3 (15:45):
I think about that all the time. I was just
doing a voiceover for one of my videos and it
was something I was reflecting on when I was back
in London. My mom, from a really young age, has
made me green juice in the morning. I should make
carrot juice, should make fresh juice in the morning. She
would have to she would full time work, but she
still had time in the morning to make me fresh juices,

(16:05):
take out my vitamins, still do her meditation and prayer
and then work full time, come home from work, make
me a full fresh meal, help me with my homework.
The amount of things that she did for me. And
I was saying that I used to take that juice
and pour it into the bush outside and I would
take the vitamins, and I would put them into the
bush outside before I take it with me.

Speaker 2 (16:26):
That bush must be so heal.

Speaker 3 (16:27):
That bush was vibrant. Okay, she was thriving. But now
I go back and my Mum's still making these juices
for me. And now I'm buying myself green juice and
making it and I'm taking my vitamins for myself. And
again I just I feel remorseful in the same way
where I'm like, Wow, she was pouring so much into
me for my health foundations, like she was building my

(16:50):
health for me from such a young age, and I
just did not appreciate it. That remorse is actually I
feel a good part of our life because without remorse,
you don't like have that desire to get deeper into
those things. Right Like I know now in my adulthood,
I cherish the time that I spend with them. My
grandma cherish the time that I spend with her. And

(17:12):
it's partly because I've moved away, but also you do
feel the sense of time more when you grow up,
because you feel it in yourself. When you're young, you
feel like you know death's never going to hit you.
But as soon as you get to a certain age.
I mean for some people it's way later on, but
for me, especially after you know, learning a bit more
about spirituality and the soul and what it means, I

(17:34):
do feel death every single day, like I think about
it every day with my family. But that makes my
relationship with them so much better and so much deeper.
And I know you mentioned your grandma, and I actually
had picked out something that you had written about her,
and I just it brought tears to my eyes. I
probably will when I say again, but I would just
like to share it with with people, if you don't mind.

(17:56):
I myself, By the way, I've lost three grandparents and
I've got one grand parent left who I'm probably the
closest to than I am of you know, any of
them that had lived. She's ninety now, and you've written
a post where you said she loves me in a
language I can't even speak. All of me, Rainbow hair,
rainbow life, with such rigor and devotion. We sit around
in the living room, do nothing together, and that's why

(18:19):
I'm going to miss most then nothing that felt like everything. Okay, yeah,
well they are, but that's so beautiful and I completely
agree because I think about that with my grandma. I'm
a ugly cry by the way, just take all it.
But I think about that every single time I think
about my grandma, and I'm like, wow, those moments that
you feel their love, it's it's like it can be.

(18:43):
And that's what's so beautiful and pure about that generation
that they can do a whole lot of nothing and
you can just be in their presence and you feel
their love like the hugs that you get from that generation.
And because of how in my eyes, how much more
pure they wear in mind, very simple, like their minds
were so simple, what their desires were were very simplistic

(19:03):
compared to what we will have now. And I think
that simplicity comes through in simplicity of heart. And you
really feel that whenever people would meet my grandma, they
feel this energy about her that you don't feel much anymore.
And I think that that really comes that is so
precious to have in your life, and it's so beautiful
that you even got to have that relationship with your

(19:25):
grandparents and to feel.

Speaker 2 (19:27):
So lucky, yeah, to have been accepted by eventually all
three of my living grandparents who are alive, no are
no longer, It doesn't matter if the world doesn't accept me.
Because I had that kind of foundational acceptance. My Echama,
who just passed, would take me to the markets all

(19:49):
and through short and Caerala where we're from, and would say, oh,
you should try on these ear rings. You should try
on these Bengals. Haha, you're more feminine than your sister.
You look amazing. And it would come to my shows
in Kerala and say that she heard the voice of
God in me, even when I was on stage wearing
a dress. And it was never about I accept you.

(20:13):
Here are the pronouns I'm using. It was something so
much deeper than that, like a profound recognition of me
as a human and a respect And I feel so
lucky and so grateful, and that gratitude, I think actually
fuels me to do this work of learning how to

(20:34):
care like they cared, because I feel like, you know,
with our generation and social media, we've become so we
see human beings as content and we reduce the like
vast unknowability the universe of one another into a series
of easily identifiable, decipherable metrics, and we don't have slow

(20:58):
time together. And what I love about ending every year
in Caerala, which was always my ritual is it was
a decompression slow time. It would just be days on
end of just like eating and lounging the best and
always feeling like I was having fun, not feeling like
I had to be at a zillion things or have

(21:18):
a fully passed schedule, just kind of zooming into it.
And so now what I'm really trying to do is
to bring that appreciation for slowness, for deliberate time, for
actual encounter and witness rather than just kind of superficial embrace.

Speaker 3 (21:34):
And I think so you know, social media makes you
feel like you know people and that you see people
and interact with them more than you do, so you
almost and I even think about that with my close friends,
where I think I'm updated in their life and I'm
connected to them because I'm seeing my mind is seeing them,
so my mind's forgetting that I've only experienced them through
this vessel versus having this human interaction with them. And

(21:58):
you know, when you were saying that thing about carrying
the care that she had on, I think that is
such a beautiful legacy to carry with you. I've seen
that in my mum recently, and I've well not seen
in my mum recently. I've noticed it in my mum recently.
She's had it her whole life, but she has this
incredible desire to serve the elderly in our community, to
the point where a lot of my grandma's friends will

(22:20):
call her before they call their own children to help,
but not even in and by the way, no one's watching.
And that's what I love about, to actually seek care
where she is making you know those people, oh yeah,
I'll call that person for you know, my mom is
calling up every single person to find a care for
someone that she hardly knows. She's going out of her
way to someone's broken their leg in the community. She's

(22:43):
making food for them every single day. She's calling the
elderly that have lost their spouses and she's calling them
every day to check in on them because she knows
that that's the only phone call that they're going to get.
And every time I see her going, in my eyes,
out of her way, which is what it seems like
in MAA so much effort put in for people that
you don't even know, Mum, and I'm like, wow, that's

(23:06):
just the capacity that she has to love and care,
which is so lost because for me, I'm learning that
now and wanting to carry it on because I see
it in her. But that's been something I'm having to learn,
Whereas for her it's so natural because she grew up
in a community in Uganda where people did that for
each other, in Glasgow, where people did that for each

(23:26):
other even when she was a refugee. And I think
that in this day and age, we have, whether it
is physical or emotional, gates up. We don't necessarily go
to our neighbors physically to even ask for things. We
don't know who they are, and we've lost this ability
to actually create what deep community means, whether it is
acts of service or emotionally being there for people. And

(23:48):
I really think that there are a few people left
like that, so to carry that on and I have
to learn how to carry that on it is it
makes such a difference because these people are so touched
by what she does for them.

Speaker 2 (24:02):
I believe that love is an infinite resource. Yeah, And
I believe that love is not something we do, it's
something that we are. And that often doesn't make sense
to people who are viewing it from a sort of
modern secular equation. They're like, what do you mean, there's
a limited amount of time, there's a limitment of resources.

(24:24):
But I want us to actually have a deeper conversation,
which is like when we are compassionate to others, that
is also an extension of compassion to the cell. I
think true compassion actually abolishes separation of the self and
the other because it's about creating a network of care
so that when I'm helping you, I know that when

(24:45):
I'm suffering, exactly, I've built that kind of relationship and
it's reciprocal. And it also I have no space in
me for toxicity. And when I fill my heart with compassion,
that ultimately creates a better reservoir of peace and serenity
inside of me. And so what I also learned from
my grandparents is that care is not just about the

(25:07):
other person. It's also about the cultivation of a good
life in yourself, of gratitude and charm. My Utchama giggled
until the end of her light. She had so much
delight and amusement. She loved her mocktails and cocktail. She
had so many little trinkets that would inspire so much

(25:29):
joy and wonder in her. There was almost like a
child like awe and then I felt annoyed because I
was like, why do we have to call that Childlike,
why do we have to see maturity as a departure
from that wonder? What if actually the preservation of wonder
is the most mature thing we could do.

Speaker 3 (25:45):
I mean, first of all, just the way that you
speak just mesmerizes me. You are just so eloquent, and
the things that you say is almost you know what
it is. You understand your heart so well your words
are able to express it. And I think sometimes when
I think about the disconnect where I hear what someone says,
I'm like, I feel that, but I wouldn't have been
able to say it in that way. And I do

(26:06):
see that as like you said, it's not poetry. It's
actually just that strong connection that you have built, the
clarity that you have built between your own voice and
what comes out of your mouth. So I just wanted
to say that. First of all, I think it's incredible
the work that you've done to get there. But also
what you said about you've been saying all the things
that you got from your grandparents, and when you said
your parents were just unlimitedly compassionate, even when you weren't

(26:29):
That's one thing I absolutely love about you, because every
single time you post things that people have said, which
by the way, you get so much of, and it
upsets it upsets me to my care when I see that,
and then I see a response. And there was one
that you said that I wrote down, and you really
live by the practice of I'm going to give and

(26:50):
pour out so much compassion. But to have that you
have to natural it in yourself. You can only give
what you have within you, and you must have had
to do so much to get to that point. There
was one, I think the comment that someone had written
to you. Maybe it was like some puke faces or something,
and you rode back saying, Hi, friend, nice to meet you.
This is a human being with a beating heart just

(27:12):
like yours, someone who cares about you very much. Just
a reminder that we are how we treat each other.
Today you chose animosity, and that doesn't mean you have
to make the same choice tomorrow. I believe in your
capacity for transformation. If you spend more time healing than hating,
you'll find much magnificence in the places where malice once fested.

(27:32):
The world will feel so much more lush and wondrous.
I promise if I received that and I had just
sent you some sick faces, i'ld be rethinking my whole
entire being, but from the most beautiful place. Because it's true,
you may be angry today, but that's not the same
choice you have to make tomorrow. But you have chosen
to take whatever hate has come your way and pour

(27:54):
love back into the world. And that takes a lot.
So how do you how have you built this compassionate nature?
Because it's okay, it's one thing saying it, but I
see you doing it. So there's one thing in theoretical,
But then to put it into practice, where do you
take the anger that you get and how do you
turn it back into what you give out?

Speaker 2 (28:14):
And one story. Discrimination has been horrific in my life,
and of course, but in the other it's given me
a unique opportunity that most people don't have. When you're
outside of the world, exiled from it, you get to
look on it from a distance. And what I notice
as an outsider is how much I love humans, how

(28:37):
much I miss intimacy, how much I want to be
a part of that. And the same way in which
I think people are coasting on autopilot. I think people
take advantage so many things that I can't. And so
therefore there's a preciousness to being able to walk outside
that I have reference for, yes, because that's not a
given for me. There's a preciousness for able to be

(29:01):
here another day, because that's not a given for me.
And so what that's meant is that I treasure things
so much and I remember that we're all going to die,
to your point, and I think that's the most beautiful thing,
not devastating, because that means that all of that hatred
is a distraction from that fundamental truth. The truth is

(29:22):
every single person is going to die. That's the only
given thing that we know. And knowing that, are you
going to waste your time hating me when you could
actually spend your time cultivating a garden, throwing green juice
at a bush. There's so many more interesting things to
spend your time doing. So what that actually shows is
you don't believe that your life is sacred and precious,

(29:46):
and you believe that your own time is worth wasting.
That inspires mercy in me, because I believe that your
life is precious. I believe that you should cultivate goodness
in you because you're going to die. So once you
remember the stakes of that, which is that we are
all human beings and we're all trying to run away
from that fact. I mean, think about it. When we

(30:06):
look at the brain, the decision making part of our
brain is actually quite small in comparison to the emotional part.
And yet the language we have for the emotional part
of the brain is primitive or reptilian, when in fact,
that's the most human part. What's so strange about humans
is we're continually embarrassed that we're humans. And I actually

(30:28):
love that I'm human, which means I love that I'm fallible.
I love that I'm changing, I love that I'm becoming.
I love that I don't know. I love that I'm ignorant.
And so when I learn to love myself as a human,
now I have so much love unlocked for other humans.
So it might seem counterintuitive to people of how could
you love people who hate you? But it's not counterintuitive

(30:48):
when you remember that the only way you're able to
hate other people is when you hate yourself.

Speaker 3 (30:53):
That's so true. And I you know, whenever I think
about the online hate that happens, I and even when
I reflect it, reflect on it to myself in my
own way that I live my life. Whenever I see someone,
if I'm in a place where I don't feel confident
about myself, Let's say, and I see someone who unapologetically
is living and being who they are, it irks something

(31:17):
in me, Like it makes me feel uncomfortable. And it's
not because they're living their life. It's because of what
it is reflecting in me. And so what do you feel?
Is like, there is so much hate for people. There
are so many people who cannot handle others expressing themselves
fully even though it has nothing to do with them.

(31:37):
Where do you think that roots from? Four people? Where
they are someone uncomfortable with someone else's pure expression of themselves.

Speaker 2 (31:45):
It has to do with their abbreviated joy. The truth
is we're born free and we are having the time
of our lives, and then we get shamed and we're
told that you have to be a certain way in
order to be worthy of love. And unfortunately that often
happens in the most intimate arena our parents, our best friends,

(32:09):
our lovers, who tell us that we have to minimize ourselves,
hide ourselves, betray ourselves, in order to belong. And that
happens when you're a kid, so it rewires your entire
brain into thinking that if you actually express your true
version of yourself, you'll be punished for it. And that's
why I have compassion because I was lucky. I grew

(32:30):
up in a family that allowed me to grow and
change and become. That's the most profound privilege I'll ever
have in my life. The foundational security of knowing as
a young person that my parents would have my back
if I changed my mind about who I was. That's amazing.
And so when I see a lot of people who

(32:51):
are resentful or angry or bitter in response to my appearance,
I know that there's a grief surfacing there. And the
truth is that often and anger is a secondary emotion
that's an easier touchtone for people than feeling pain. So true,
and there are very few spaces, especially in Western culture,
for lamentation. There's just spaces for desensitization. No one is

(33:15):
actually allowed to take off work when someone in their
life dies. There's no place or ritual that you go
when you have a heartbreak. You're just expected to bounce back,
bounce back, bounce back, and I don't think that that works.
That's not how humans work. We have to be able
to feel. So what happens when we don't feel is
that gets built up as resentment. And so what's happening

(33:37):
right now I think, especially around LGBTQ rights in this country,
is a lot of people have unprocessed grief and I
become a mirror for them. Yeah, and it's so much
easier to demonize me than it is to sit with
their own grief and heartbreak.

Speaker 1 (33:52):
Definitely.

Speaker 3 (33:53):
There's this quote that I think of where it says,
you always feel like an angel when you're sitting next
to the devil, when you're standing there to the devil.
And it's not that that person is the devil, but
when you are able to demonize everybody around you, when
you're able to pick faults in every single person that
you see, you'll always feel good about yourself because if
your mind is constantly seeing their flaws, I've always feel

(34:15):
great about myself. And I think that's what a lot
of us do, or a lot of people do, when
they are not quite ready to internalize and see their
own It's easier being busy looking at everybody else's It's
easier looking at everybody else's what they perceive as being
their negatives or finding those little things, because that work
that has to be done for yourself is far more

(34:38):
difficult than, or it seems more difficult than it is
to pick at someone else.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
I appreciate it earlier how you acknowledge the amount of
work it takes to be able to get to compassion,
because I also feel like one of the negative side
effects of social media is that people can like share
memes and quotes, but that's not the same as doing
the practice. Yes, and one of the things I've always
respected about you is your commitment to practice. And ritual

(35:04):
practice is the hardest thing. And for me, a contemplative
practice that could be meditation, it could be writing, it
could be singing. A contemplative practice actually allows me to
recognize when I'm running on autopilot, even though I didn't
know I was. I have to separate myself from the
thing to be able to observe it from afar. And

(35:26):
the more that I've invested into my practice, the more
that I've realized often the most incredible, awe inspiring, earth
shattering work is the most quiet and visible and delicate
and So the problem once again with social media is
that it glorifies visibility is the metric of progress, when
in fact, spiritual transformation will often just bubble and froth,

(35:49):
not explode.

Speaker 3 (35:50):
Yeah, and I with my time that I spend in
my meditation. The reason it allows me to be more
compassionate with other people or not even have the time
to think about their flows is because it brings to
surface so much of my own that and that's what
I love about the practice is it doesn't mean that
I dislike myself for it, But what it does is

(36:12):
it helps me come to terms with who I am
and see the things that I have to work on.
And if I'm busy working on those things, one it
makes me think, well, if I have all of this
going on in me, how can I even judge anybody else?
I have all these things I'm working on. Their weeds
may look a little bit different, and I may not
recognize them because I may not see them in myself,

(36:32):
But weeds are weeds. We all have weeds in some
form in some sense. They may look beautiful, they may
seem like they're flowers, but every single person has them.
And so what that reflective practice as you put it
does for me is it puts a mirror for myself,
and so it stops me from even judging people. And

(36:53):
I noticed, because you know, practices as they do mine
ebbs and flows. There's so many times where I am
so distracted during my practice, but I'll still try and
show up. There's so many times where my practice for
months and months is just half asked and I'm just
not giving it my all. But I see that. Then
I become more jugmental. Then I'm picking up other people more.
Then I'm busying myself in other people's gossip, and that

(37:15):
becomes attractive to me. And I think as soon as
the negatives about people, that's been a red flag for myself.
As soon as conversations where there is gossip or negativity
or I'm seeing a little bit of spice put into
things and I'm enjoying it. As soon as that becomes
attractive to me, that's a sign for me that things
are not working the way they're supposed to for myself.

(37:37):
And so that's always right because it's so easy. Gossip
is spoken about more than goodness, is talking about other
people with people is spoken about more than these type
of conversations are and so a natural tendency can be
to have those that have that be the nectar and
the juice that we live off. But I've noticed that

(37:58):
as the red flag in myself for Wheen, and that
practice is not I'm obviously not doing my practice the
way that I'm supposed to.

Speaker 2 (38:04):
That's incredible that you have that level of self awareness.
I think that's something I'm trying to cultivate in me.
It's hard because I think for so much of my
life and it's a balancing act, right, I would have
to point fingers at a society that neglected me and
say it's unfair. I mean, in the midst of this conversation,
there are over seven hundred pieces of anti ALGBUTIQ legislation

(38:27):
in this country and in the UK, where we both
have connections. There's just an accelerated increase in anti transdiscrimination,
and I think it's important to condemn things that are
happening societally. But the more that I've focused on my
healing journey, I've had to really take personal responsibility and
accept I might not be responsible for my trauma, but

(38:48):
I am responsible for my own healing, and so what
it means to actually take personal responsibility is so hard
for me when for so long I've felt like I
was unable to express my anger and my rage at
the system that failed me. But now I think, especially
in my thirties, I'm having to really take account. If
I'm going to sleep stressed out, I have to take responsibility.

(39:11):
I have to take responsibility for when I'm not sleeping.
I have to take responsibility for when I'm just scrolling online,
which can often feel like a form of digital self mutilation.
I have to take responsibility to unplug and say, how
am I treating myself with respect? It is one thing
to say that this society is disrespectful to me. It's

(39:31):
a deeper thing to be disrespectful to ourselves. So now
I'm trying really hard to show up with goodness and
dignity to myself, which is a compassion practice that is
often harder for me than compassion for the other because,
on the one hand, yes, the care that we grew
up with was amazing, and it was gendered. And that's

(39:54):
why I was nervous about that word self sacrifice earlier,
because I've seen a lot of Indian women in my
life who spent so much time uplifting men and never
demanded any of that reciprocity right, and completely neglected their
own dreams, aspirations, wonder and wisdom to caretake for others.

(40:15):
So the care that I want is awe inspiring, but
it also demands reciprocity. Otherwise it's not true compassion. And
so I feel like also when people hear compassion, they
still think it's selfless. That's not compassion. And that's the
work I'm really trying to do now is to extend
the same due diligence that I have to my perpetrators

(40:37):
of harassment to myself, to understand that I can often
be a perpetrator of harassment to myself when I look
in the mirror and I say, your life would be
so much easier if you just modified this one thing.
But really, well, you know.

Speaker 3 (40:49):
I always think about how there's so much that good.
I love learning so much from what you share about
what's happening in the world, And you know, I think
about every single time there's a woman that is attacked
on the street, or you know, how unsafe the world
is becoming for women, always has been, but you know,
that's always highlighted. And then I see the things that

(41:10):
you share about and I'm like, there's one thing for
women to feel unsafe on the street, but then there's
a whole other part which people don't even think about.
And I really, you know, for for the way, for you,
when you're walking out onto the street, like you said,
you don't even know whether you're gonna get attacked. You
don't know whether someone's gonna say things to you. There

(41:32):
is always, and this isn't me over exaggerating, there is
a fear every single time you walk out of your
house for death or for damage and emotionally or physically.
And I one just want to say, I appreciate so
much that you still, despite what you have to endure
when you walk out of your house, you still do

(41:53):
that because there are people who won't walk out their
house when they've got a spot on their face. No really,
they just they won't because they're worried about what people.
A guess say, Well, you probably, I'm sure you get
looked at differently. You get people look and again it
may be in a maze because you have an incredible
addresser and the way that you carry yourself as phenomenal.
But a lot of the time it's because you are

(42:14):
something unfamiliar for many people. They were just hide. It's
so easy to become a recluse in someone who doesn't
even want to step out into the world when it's
so much hate is out there. How have you taken
away that fear of death and fear of being hurt
which you have been in the past and still managed
to continue to do that? Because I think that's beautiful

(42:37):
for anybody to learn for themselves.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
Why would I deny the world my beauty?

Speaker 3 (42:43):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (42:43):
Why would you?

Speaker 3 (42:44):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (42:45):
And why would I deny myself my beauty? Because when
I am here in this form, it is how I'm
able to speak the truth. How could I come and
speak on a podcast about healing and an unhealed version
of myne We have to live the things that we believe.
I don't believe that heaven is something that will happen

(43:07):
when I die. I think heaven is something I can
create right now. Heaven is my contemplative practice. I want
every day to feel like paradise. I'm not going to
wait for that, so then when that's my criteria, I
have no choice but to gift the world my fullness.
And I know that I was brought here to be

(43:27):
a light. I have a firm sense that that is
my purpose on earth. From my youngest memories, I knew
that I wanted to share my art with the world.
I used to dance to the latest Bollywood trucks at
every single Indian dinner, body wearing my mom's chunnees, dancing around.
I wanted to be a performer. I wanted to dazzle

(43:48):
and share. That's who I am. It's like telling the
sky not to be blue. It's like telling the wind
to stay still. You can't invisibilize what I'm here to do.
And it's not actually about overcoming fear. I still have
a fear of all those things. That's what it means
to be human is to be fearful. But what I
now have is ritual and practice around fear. So fear knocks,

(44:12):
I say, hey, fear, let me accessorize you. I dress
up fear. I put it in a really cute heel.
I walk outside with fear as my best friend. It's there,
I greet it. I think the reason fear often becomes
the author of our lives is because we're constantly banishing it,
but when we actually include it, that's what I really

(44:33):
believe in everything I'm trying to do in the work
is radical inclusion. Radical inclusion means looking at every emotion
and saying thank you, so both my pride and my shame,
thanks for being here, my hatred and my love. Great
you all have something to say here. And once we
begin to incorporate even all the things that we judge

(44:55):
in other people, because those are often indications of things
we are unresolved in ourselves. Once I began to radically
include all parts of myself, then fear no longer has
a stranglehold on me. Because fear is one voice of
many voices. So when I'm going outside, fear says you're
going to get attacked. But now magnificence another voice that's

(45:16):
louder because I've nurtured and exercised. It says, or someone's
going to say, great shoes. And then I just choose
to believe that narrative. I think where I'm trying to
get better now is on setbacks. So there are days where,
like you said, the practice disintegrades. You go to your
most base and crude version of yourself. And I feel

(45:40):
like I'm in that right now. And I felt a
little trepidation. I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm gonna
be on camera. Am I ready? I've been feeling a
lot of grief this week, a lot of sorrow this week.
I think a lot of it's physical exhaustion. I'm in
the middle of a tour where I'm getting like two
to three hours of sleep at night, so it's just accumulates.
But I think it's also just like a deeper kind
of a sense of frustration. Why do I have to

(46:01):
work so hard? Why do I have to be so
hard working in order to get the bare minimum? And
it feels unfair. And so what I'm now having to
really do is recognize instead of saying, Okay, these things
are not part of my highest cell, because that's what
I often do is I shame myself for having those feelings.

(46:22):
I have to sit in those feelings and say they
are looking for a witness too, and that often cares
just witness. So even the things that are thoughts that
feel most embarrassing or silly or superficial or petty, we
can't just dismiss them because they don't go away. You
have to actually witness the pettiness, don't act out of
that place. But witness it, hold it, feel that grief.

(46:44):
And that's so hard for me because sometimes I fear
that if I feel the fullest extent of my grief,
I won't be able to bounce back. But then I'm like,
every time I do, it shortens.

Speaker 3 (46:55):
Yes, I completely agree. I always I think in the
same way, and I have had to train myself to
try and do that where and I think, again, I
keep saying part of our culture, but it is. I mean,
it's part of human culture, but also a lot of
our culture. I think about with my parents of you know,
they would hide when they were crying, they wouldn't show
when they were feeling upset, And so get you get

(47:16):
trained from a very young age to say these are
the emotions that are okay to show, and these are
the emotions that are not. And it doesn't go away
because every single thing that you feel, every single thing
that gets put through your senses, leaves impressions in your
heart and in your mind. Like there's the words some
scaa it means impression and as I love that word

(47:38):
so much because it also translates to translates to footprints,
and that's exactly what happens every single emotion. Every single
experience we have creates footprints, some deeper than others. What
we I then end up doing is trying to fill it,
fill that imprint out with something else, with another emotion
that masks it, or you know, you put a plaster
over it. But really what we need to do is

(48:00):
see all emotions as being part and parcel of our growth.
And so when I feel anger, I notice it's and
a lot of the emotions are what you say, the
secondary where we're feeling something. The anger is coming out
as the response because I'm used to used to expressing
it in that way, But where is it coming from?
What is the experience or the trauma that I have

(48:23):
gone through that has created this response. Emotions are actually
responses from your body telling you something is happening and
I need you to listen. And I always sa whether
it's a physical thing where your body's feeling something, where
you get spots because you're stressed out, or your hair
starts to fall out because you've got you know that
comes with stress also, or whether it's these emotions that

(48:44):
are pouring out of your heart telling you I need
you to listen to me, and I've struggled with that
so much, also because I'm such a crier and I
used to hide that so much. If I was angry,
I would cry. If I'm sad, I'll cry. If I'm
feeling happy, I will cry. But why is one emotion
better than another?

Speaker 2 (49:04):
Totally?

Speaker 3 (49:04):
And so I've learned to see it as what you said,
it's a growth. It's sitting with it and what you said,
accepting it, processing it. But then also the concept of
emotions being being something that have to pass through you,
not sit in you. And once I learned about it,
I was like, this is wonderful. You may not feel
like it's wonderful at the time, but I'm like, wow,
that anger was really necessary in that moment. I needed

(49:26):
to feel it, but I also need to let it
go for those other emotions to flow through me too.
I mean the way that you have managed to do
that for what your life has brought you and what
you said about there was one part that you spoke
about the culture part of I still see that, the
women suppressing themselves and elevating men. I went to a

(49:49):
wedding recently, and I still see that so prominent in
our tradition, and I try to as I've gone through
my spiritual practices, I've really learned to differend between religion, spirituality,
and culture. And I think we've touched on this once
when we were sitting and talking after something where religion
or scripture, and if you actually take it back, there

(50:11):
is so much acceptance within religion and scripture. But then
what happens is there's a lot of male dominance through
somehow that has happened within religious institutions that somehow the
culture at the time is poured into and masked as
spirituality and religion, and so those demands and those laws

(50:35):
of whatever they're trying to put out, it ends up
being where women are seen to They say it's religion,
but it's just a masking of culture. And I'm sure
you've I think you've done so many studies based on this,
and I would love to hear a little bit more
about about that and what the things that surprised you
or that you've learnt through that.

Speaker 2 (50:55):
It really devastates me that I experienced the most hatred
from my own people. It's most often Indian men and
Indian women who call me an embarrassment, who say that
I've been contaminated by Western values who say that I'm
holding us back. And it's embarrassing because when we actually

(51:18):
learn our history as South Asian people, we have thousands
of years of not just recognition, but reverence of gender
non conforming people, and gender fluidity was actually seen as
a spiritual path, the idea of breaking up with the
human obsession with gender norms, to being able to be
a bridge to a divine source and to be able

(51:40):
to speak truth. That gender nonconformity allowed us to be truthsayers,
to tell stories and pass on traditions, but so much
of that was lost with colonization. When the British invaded
and colonized South Asia, they criminalized gender non conformity, created
laws like the Unique Ordinances laws which actually made it

(52:04):
illegal to cross dress in public, and they sought the
complete elimination of gender non conforming in gender varian communities.
And it's sad that I only learned that in college.
And it's sad that I grew up in a very
tightened Indian community feeling like if I was trans, that
was a betrayal of my culture, not a continuation of it.
And it's sad that in South Asia trans people are

(52:27):
so visible and yet in our South Asian diaspora were
so minimized because I think a lot of times the
way that our diaspora has worked is don't draw attention
to yourself. Hide, yeah, be very quiet, and then you'll
be safe. And I can have compassion for that, and
I can also have compassion enough to say that doesn't work.
It's never been about and I should know this. I

(52:49):
was the one telling my nanny not to wear hersari.
It's never been about what we look like. It's never
been about what we smell like. It's not been about
our body here, none of that. And shape shifting won't win.
What wins is actually finding truth and power in it,
and power in your truth and truth in your power.
And I think that's the lesson that we as South

(53:11):
Asian trans people can really show South Asian American and
British South Asian people, like actually loving yourself unapologetically is
the way forward. You can't love yourself twenty percent and
then eighty percent. No, you have to have radical inclusion
of all the parts of you that you've been shamed in.

Speaker 3 (53:29):
And I think you know, when people actually think about
the depth of what spirituality means, what it truly means
to connect to God or to yourself. We all have
feminine and masculine energy within us. God is both feminine
and masculine. And it's funny because within our Hindu culture

(53:50):
the feminine aspect isn't spoken about as much at all.
Jay actually did so much research and has speaks about
the feminine nature for us. Is rather has spoken about
that so much and has shown how the power of
tuning in to worship but to also connect to the
feminine side of God is so important for us and

(54:13):
for us to connect to that within us. And I
think what's happened is I think people don't realize that
we both have those within us. Like it's not even
spoken about much where you don't realize that every single
person it has a soul. That soul is both feminine
and masculine, and we pull on them throughout the day,
throughout our life. And to actually be in balance, to

(54:36):
actually be in tune with yourself is to connect to both.
If we're connecting to one more than the other, that
is us out of balance. And it's so interesting to
see how things can shift through generations and generations and
how things are going to be carried on through traditions
when it makes no sense, and we don't question it
because also people maybe aren't doing the studying or aren't

(54:57):
going back to the route, and so it's word of
that gets passed on versus truth and reality.

Speaker 2 (55:03):
I think the reason we don't question it is that
would incriminate the people who said that they loved us.
It's often our parents, it's our teachers who say you
have to act more masculine, you have to ask more feminine.
And once again, it's easier to demonize a small group
of trans people than it is to account for the
entire inventory of pain of growing up in a world that,

(55:24):
before asking how are you, said are you a boy
or a girl? You know, and we've been so saturated
with the idea that performing our gender is our imperative
for being on earth. Yeah, And what I really want
to tell people is that you can dig all of
the time that you're allocating into confirming other people's gender

(55:46):
norms and reallocate that into throwing green juice at a bush.
That would be more interesting use of your time than
trying to emulate these nineteenth century definitions of gender. And
so that's why the reframe that I've often given the
world is that I'm being targeted not because I'm a

(56:07):
victim or because I lack or because I'm broken or faulty.
I'm being targeted because I am powerful and I'm harmonious,
and I represent possibility, and people sabotage possibility because they
don't think that they're worth it. They don't think that
they're worth expansion. And what I really want the world
to understand is the reason I champion this issue so

(56:30):
hard is because I want healing for everyone. It's not
self indulgent, it's not selfish. It's not just my concern
for myself or other trans people. I want genuine healing
for all people. And right now, our gendered system is
not it's toxic, it's disgusting, it's despicable. It's all the
slurs that they say about trans people. They're misdirected. They

(56:52):
should go towards our patriarchal system. And in order for
there to be healing, there has to be a radical
embrace and union of our divine man skuline and are
divine feminine.

Speaker 3 (57:02):
And I think you know, like you said, the easier
option for you would be to walk out in what
people would expect you to dress in. What people don't
realize is you are going out of your way to actually, no,
you're not going outywhere because it is who you are.
But you are making a point to stand in your
own self and to show up in this way because
it is going to benefit everybody long term. And you

(57:24):
could take the easy option. You could live your life
and hide it, and you know that would be that
would be an easier option for you. You don't want to
walk out and get shouted at and get things thrown
in you whatever it is that you've experienced, but you
choose not to do that. So it's actually, I know
you have trait, you've been able to change the narrative
and see as you showing up as yourself, But it
is also a sacrifice that you are making to show

(57:47):
up when people are not ready to yet accept it.
I think people's view of it is, oh, you're just
doing what you want and you're just but no, you are.
You are doing so much to even be that and
to show up because of how the world is not
ready yet to to deal with what's going on in
their own hearts.

Speaker 2 (58:03):
That's my spirituality, Yeah, and it's taken me a long
time to develop this language and awareness. But what it
means to be a spiritual person is to not wait
for the world to reflect the value systems that you
believe it should have, but to live those value systems now.
And I want to live in a world where we

(58:25):
congratulate people for giving birth to themselves, where we allow
people to become the fullest and ripest versions of themselves.
I can't just speak about it. I have to live it.
I have to embody it. I have to show people
that it's possible. And that's not about me wanting to
be a martyr. There are days where I can't and

(58:45):
I step back and I say this, It wouldn't be
safe for me in this airport to be wearing this heel,
so I'm just going to put it in my back. Yeah,
there are days in which I have to make concessions,
but ultimately I always return. I always return to this
because I know that when I'm writing, when I'm speaking
on stage, when I'm speaking to on this podcast. Now,
if I didn't come as this version of myself, the

(59:07):
words I'm saying wouldn't be there. They're there for me
because this is me getting ready for ritual and my
job on this earth is to speak the truth. Truth
is my ritual. So how do I speak the ritual?
I have to dress as if this was God work,
because I think it is.

Speaker 3 (59:22):
It makes me so sad when I think about obviously
having grown up Hindu, and I don't necessarily, you know,
connect with my I wouldn't go out and say I'm
Hindu anymore. That's just that's not a religion that I
necessarily feel as connected to. I definitely feel more connected
to my spiritual path and my own connection. And the
reason I say that is because I feel one in Hinduism.

(59:45):
It's become a little bit confusing where we know what
we stand for, but where okay, let's say it is
about the spirit and the soul and love, but only
love certain people, and I think a lot of religious institutes.
And that's what's sad about it, where religion can actually
be a really b full, uniting thing, but it has
become so segregating, and it has become something where it's

(01:00:06):
masters we love and we're open arms. Come to our church,
come to our temple, come to our synagogue. But there's
rules to the love, and there is no rules to love.
And that's what really upsets me because I you know,
I've only done a small amount of study and through
my own practice, but the essence of every single religion

(01:00:29):
actually is unlimited love and unlimited acceptance, not fear, not
with specific rules and regulations. It is accept everyone. Everybody
is worth loving. But we've just put so many restrictions
on that based on our filters that we have as
society that it's made religions so unattractive to so many

(01:00:52):
people because of those things that's happened, and that's why
I think people are moving away from going to religious institutions.
They are creating their own paths. But now we have
to create those spiritual communities ourselves because they are no
longer safe places for people to go to. And what
you said about our community being the most hateful, it's
really sad to me that. And slowly I'm seeing in

(01:01:12):
the temple that I sometimes go to in London, that's
where I started my practices, I'm seeing there is more acceptance.
There are more which is sad team saying, more women
that are in more authoritative figures, There is more open mindedness.
But the fact that it's even got to the point
where there was closed doors for people. That to me
is just it's wild. It's wild to me that it's

(01:01:34):
been even translated into that, and I'm so I'm sorry,
and I'm sad that you have even had to go
through that yourself, but that you've maintained what's incredible is
that you've maintained your connection. And I've had friends who
are Muslim and have been told that they are literally
going against their religion by being gay, and that they

(01:01:55):
are literally going to go to Hell. And then what
you said, they had their family dynamic, They had their
family who were supportive and loving and kind, and so
no matter what happened with other people, no matter what
they said, they still maintain their relationship with God, with
themselves and with their family. And I think that foundation
of community is so important whatever struggles you go through,

(01:02:16):
and to have that foundation of family is just really
precious and invaluable. Almost But yeah, thank you for sharing that.
I really appreciate it. I have a few, like three
questions that popped up in my mind. What is something
a lot of people don't know about you that you'd
want them to know?

Speaker 2 (01:02:33):
Remarkably silly, I think I haven't found a way to
communicate that online so I have like a lot of
like serious talking head better but in person I'm way
more ridiculous.

Speaker 3 (01:02:45):
Well, I feel like I've experienced that with you, so
I appreciate that part of you and sharing it. What
emotion do you find difficult to deal with the most
and why?

Speaker 2 (01:02:54):
I think with our conversation it's grief. It's like the
newest old friend every time I'm like again, I thought
I did this work, and I run away from it
and I keep myself busy so I don't just sit
in the pain. But it's something I'm working on.

Speaker 3 (01:03:09):
And when was the last time you had a really
good cry? And if you don't mind sharing why, it's.

Speaker 2 (01:03:15):
Been a while so it's hard to recollect. You're inspiring
me to find cause to do one tonight.

Speaker 3 (01:03:25):
What's your usual release of emotion? How do you normally
release if you are feeling sad? Is it through writing mainly? Yeah? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
I keep a daily journal. That's part of my contemplative practice,
and I write down every single thing that I think,
feel and do every single day.

Speaker 1 (01:03:41):
I need to start doing that and it's.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
So emotional for me. I mean, my astrological sign is cancer.
I'm a very much water sign and so just like
being able to look at it my day and be like,
I'm alive.

Speaker 3 (01:03:55):
I just like I love the grass too that you
have for life. I think it's it's something that people
like you said, we can go on autopilot day by
day by day and not have that deep gratitude. And
I think one thing that I'm taking away the most
from this is if you have the sense of death
in your mind every single day and not see it

(01:04:16):
as morbid, but see as this fuel that gets you
to feel this gratitude every single day, that is the
I think that if there's one thing you're gonna take,
take a lot from this, but if there's one thing
you're going to take, take that to actually feel that
gratitude and genuine connection to the day that you are
gifted every single day.

Speaker 2 (01:04:36):
I mean it is kind of more bid and beautiful.
It is every decision you make in life, what if
you ask yourself, is this rooted in the fundamental truth
that I'm going to die? Then we start to make
very different divisions. It's so true, but we just we
just operate off of immortality is the premise, and that
is killing us actually prematuring our deaths. What I've actually

(01:04:59):
found in my life is that, like I'm able to
clear out the bullshit. I have conviction that time on
earth is finite and precious and sacred, so I have
to be very intentional with what I do with it.

Speaker 3 (01:05:10):
Yeah, so you don't need to be sending those rude
dms to people. Guys. Okay, we don't need to be
sending that hey message. You've got better things to be doing.
The last thing they're like doing on this this is silly,
so I think I'll appreciate it. It's what kind of
cry are you? So I have categorized the types of criers.
There might be more, but there's the loud, ugly cry,
which is that you know, you know what that looks like,

(01:05:33):
the breathless, which is like the sniffler and snutty, where
there is like there is liquid coming out every part
of the body when they're crying, the high pitched that
friend who suddenly goes like this doesn't know how to
come back down, that I'm not crying your crying cry,
the one who's like really elegant and I've got something

(01:05:54):
in my eye. And then the silent cry, the one
where you don't even know his cry that just kind
of go to the bathroom, come back and nothing has happened.

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
I'm the elegant cry. Okay, Yeah, I really have a
lot of jealousy, and I'm working throughout the motion of
the loud crier like I want to I want to heave.
I want like a dramatic cry, you know, but mine
is very subtle.

Speaker 3 (01:06:14):
I kind of saw that for you. Yeah, yeah, you're
gonna have to give us a little example of it later. Oh,
thank you, thank you so much. It has honestly been
I think I don't know if I want to say this,
but like my favorite conversation, but yeah, thank you so
much for showing up as you and for doing everything
that you are doing. I have so much more to
learn in this space, and so much more I feel
I want to give, and I think this has really

(01:06:36):
spoked that in me, and so much that you have
shared has yeah, so much, so much reflection to be
doing for all of us. So thank you, thank you,
thank you so much for watching this episode. I hope
you enjoyed it, and don't miss out on my new episode.
It's right here, And if you're listening to the podcast
on Apple or Spotify, please go and leave a review
with your biggest takeaways. I love reading your comments, and

(01:06:59):
if you have any suggestquestions for guests or topics, you
can leave them in the comments section. Two and just remember,
you don't need a reason to have a really good cry.

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Alok Vaid-Menon: Accepting Yourself - How to Not Let the Judgement of Others Mold Who You Are

Episode Transcript

Host

Radhi Devlukia

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Alok Vaid-Menon: Accepting Yourself - How to Not Let the Judgement of Others Mold Who You Are