November 4, 2025 • 37 mins
Have you ever felt overwhelmed by your emotions—but didn’t know how to process them?
Are you carrying feelings you haven’t found the words for yet?
Could journaling be more than just writing—could it actually be a form of healing?
What if your “ugly” feelings weren’t something to fix—but something to understand?
In this episode of A Really Good Cry, Radhi sits down with Allie Michelle—poet, author, and now fantasy novelist—for a heart-opening conversation on emotional healing, self-expression, and the radical power of writing it all down.
Together, they explore how journaling can help us face our inner chaos with compassion, why the messiest emotions often hold the deepest wisdom, and how Allie’s own journey through anxiety, creativity, and self-discovery shaped her voice as a writer. From embracing your shadow to finding stillness in self-reflection, this episode is a gentle invitation to meet yourself on the page.
Whether you’re a writer, a feeler, or just someone looking to reconnect with your inner world—this conversation is a soft place to land.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
- How journaling can help you process emotions and release shame
- Why embracing “emotional dissonance” can lead to deeper healing
- What it really means to write authentically—and why it’s not always easy
- The difference between self-expression and emotional avoidance
- How to transform anxiety into connection and creativity
- What Allie’s writing journey taught her about purpose, presence, and being human
If you’ve ever felt like your feelings were too much, too messy, or too hard to name—this episode is your reminder: your emotions are not a burden. They’re a doorway to deeper understanding, healing, and wholeness.
Follow Allie:
https://www.instagram.com/alliemichellel
https://youtube.com/@alliemichelle7634
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMkNFBQWK/
Follow Radhi:
https://www.instagram.com/radhidevlukia/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxWe9A4kMf9V_AHOXkGhCzQ
https://www.facebook.com/radhidevlukia1/
https://www.tiktok.com/@radhidevlukia
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Do you think people have to go through pain to
be able to connect deeper to themselves and to other people.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I think pain wakes us up to what's in front
of us today.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
I'm joyed by adding Michelle She's a poet, author and
now a fantasy novelist. In this episode, we dive into
a creative journey and my storytelling can be one of
the most profound tools for healing and retaming your voice.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
We all, especially now, as like walking human personal brands.
We need a place where all the ugly gets to
belong without judgment, and a journal is such a great
way of doing that. The reason we love movies like
Harry Potter or Lot of the Rings or any hero's
journey is because all of those archetypes exist within us.
We all have the villain insight and the hero and
the fall and the wise stage.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
For people who are disconnected from their emotions or they've
created a hard heart because of anything that they've been through,
what are some of the things that one can do
to really start becoming comfortable with tapping into their emotions.
I'm Radi Dvlukiah and on my podcast A Really Good Cry,
we embrace the messy and the beautiful, providing a space
(01:00):
for raw and field of conversations that celebrate vulnerability and
allow you to tune in to learn, connect and find
comfort together. Oh my gosh, Alie, thank you for being here.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
I am so happy to speak to you. I feel
like I've known you for such a long time, but
we've never actually sat down properly to have a conversation.
So I feel like this is a great way for
us to do that. I got to binge so much
of your stuff as I've been trying to like research
and understand how incredible you are. And it has been
(01:31):
such a great journey, not just to observe you, but
also for myself, Like so much of what you write
about and speak about, I feel like you you make
people feel so understood and so seen just by the
words that you use. So first of all, thank you,
thank you. And it is such a gift that you
have that you're sharing with everyone. So you have three books?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Is it out?
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Four?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Four?
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Oh my gosh, So you have three poetry books and
then you've just written a novel, right, a fantasy novel. Yes,
let's start from the beginning. I need to know how
you got into poetry, and then what brought you to
writing a fantasy novel.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
I got into poetry because I had really bad social
anxiety as a kid, so I used to write the
kids in my class letters instead of speak to them.
No way. Yeah, and then I started writing little poems,
and I don't know, it just kind of became a
career by accident. But I was writing poetry from like
nine years old.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Oh my gosh, you still have some of them.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
I have all my old journals from the time I
was like five, used the whole library shelf of them.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
And was generally at that age. Was that something you
got recommended or was that something you just took You
just felt the urge and the desire to put pen
to paper.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
My mom gave it to me, I think because she
just knew somehow that it would help me. It was
one of the only things that unwound those anxious notts
inside of me.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
I can so relate. I feel like when I I've gotten
into this habit because I used to be this person
who whenever someone would upset me, or whenever i'd go
through something with a friend or whether it was in
a relationship, I would constantly want to tell them how
much they've hurt me. Like my natural instinct would be
to blurt out, in whatever words came out of my mouth,
(03:07):
saying you did this, and you did this, and you
should feel bad because of this. And as years went on,
it made me realize how little that helped compared to
having a moment to myself or days to myself where
I'm processing it and writing it out. And so I
learned over time that you don't often have to like
send that message to someone. You don't have to like
send the message. You don't have to let them know
(03:28):
they've hurt you, But by releasing it onto pen to paper,
it actually can relieve so much of what you're feeling.
So I can so relate to that because I think
that that's a big thing that people miss. You always
think that you have to express it to someone, but
sometimes you just need to express it.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
That's most of what it is. And I think we all,
especially now, as like walking human personal brands, we need
a place where all the ugly gets to belong without judgment,
and a journal is such a great way of doing that.
And so as writing where you can really use all
of those darker emotions and thoughts and feelings, so that way,
you're not acting from that place.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Do you find it easy to get to a point
where you aren't acting even when you know it's just you?
Because I find when I first started journaling, and I did,
it started at a much later age than you did,
but I was noticing myself hiding myself from myself. Does
that make sense? Like I will be writing and writing
and writing, and it would almost become like a piece
(04:27):
that I was going to be submitting versus like actually
digging in and finding a way to truly see myself
and truly see what I'm thinking. So for anybody who's
starting out with journaling or starting out trying to understand
their emotions, how can you get past that surface level? Like?
What are the tools or techniques one can use to
(04:49):
stop having that front layer or surface like face that
you put on.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
I think the desire to be a good person can
sometimes stop us from being a whole person. And so
I would say to lean into the ugly because I
can only control the fact that I know I can be.
Can I swear on here?
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
I know I can be a judgmental asshole, And that's
how I control it, because I know that's there, and
I've admitted it to myself, and so I can only
control the behaviors that I admit to myself. I call
like the shadow a little monster, and I turn it
into a little character and I'm like, just my little
monster acting Yeah, it's fine, but I know it's there.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
And I think a lot of times when we're journaling,
we want to be flowery and be like, oh no,
it was just this, and I learned so much in this.
But if you give just a very personal space to
yourself to be a whole person, then you're not walking
around in the world unconsciously letting those behaviors rule you
so much.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah. I was thinking about that this weekend quite a lot, actually,
because I actually get over things quite easily, like if
someone's upset me or hurt me, or if I've gone
through something with someone, I usually get over that very fast.
But I was noticing that there was certain people were
set and things that repeating in my head over and
over again. And I wasn't used to that because I
(06:05):
was like, oh, I'm someone who lets go of everything,
and so I'm fine, but I was noticing that person
or those people kept coming up in my mind as
something that every time I would hear their name, it
would create like a negative energy or negative emotion in
my body or in my mind. And I was speaking
to Jane, I was like, I actually don't know why
I feel that way about those people. And I came
to the realization that I really had to break down
(06:29):
my insecurities the things I feel about myself that actually
ended up being a reflection of why I don't like
them or why they trigger me so deeply. And I
don't think i'd allowed myself to because I was used
to be like, it was them, it's their it's what
they do, it's their personality, They're what triggered me. But
you can only be triggered by someone because you've got
(06:52):
that trigger in you, and like, it takes so long
to get to that realization. But now that I've realized that,
I'm like, oh, okay, so now I need to dig
deeper and figure out why do those things about them
really upset me? And what is it about myself that
I need to change to be able to not have
those things trigger me externally? But how would you recommend
people identify their triggers and then start to process them
(07:14):
through writing or through any other tools that you've developed.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I think the best writing comes from a strong emotional charge.
And the reason we love movies like Harry Potter or
Lord of the Rings or any hero's journey is because
all of those archetypes exist within us. We all have
the villain insight and the hero and the fool and
the wise stage. And so if I'm looking at someone
and I'm villainizing them, that's in me too.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Any archetypes. Yes, I need you to tell me more
about archetypes because I think I saw you speak on
them before. Could you explain them, where they've come from
and how they're useful.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Yeah, the hero's journey comes from Joseph Campbell, and it's
just the writing structure that pretty much any movie you
can think of, whether it's a memoir like Eat, Pray,
Love or something like Harry Potter, all of it uses
the hero's journey. And so there's the hero who starts
out in an ordinary world and then there's an inciting
incident and they go into an extraordinary adventure that transforms them,
(08:09):
and along the way they meet the sage that would
be like yannd Off for Dumbledore, and they have the
friends and they have the full like Rafiki and the
Lion King, or the villain like Voldemort. But Carl Jung,
the psychologists believe that we resonate with it because all
of those archetypes exist within our own psyche.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Wow, that's so true. And so you're saying we all
have all of them. But do we display different versions
in different times of our life or are you predominantly
one in most of the time.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
I like archetypes because it's not set in stone. It's
not like astrology or the enneagram or human design. It's
just a natural expression of what you're trying to integrate
within your own psyche at the time. So if I'm
trying to integrate the Full, maybe I'm in a very
serious sage like position where I'm projecting wisdom and a
centeredness and I need to lighten up and I need
to be willing to be seen the fool and that
(09:01):
would be the medicine there. Or if I'm the ruler,
maybe I'm in a stage of really serving my people
and stepping up as a leader. You know, life is
such a fluid experience, and recognizing what archetype is trying
to integrate is really helpful.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Yeah, that's so true. I feel like you might be
the ruler with your children, but then maybe you have
to become one of the other ones when you're at
work or with your partner. So I imagine you can go
through different archetypes throughout the day, in different parts of
your day, if not in different months or years.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Yeah, every person pulls out a different part of you.
Like with Alexis, I often become the magician, which is
like the healer, and she's the ruler, which is the leader.
And so the two of us understand through those archetypes
how to better relate to each other in a compassionate
way versus that's not who I am with, like a
romantic partner or a different friend.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
How was it writing the fantasy novel as opposed to
doing poetry. Did you feel like there was a shift
in the way that you you had to write in
your imagination or did they kind of flow one flow
into the other.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
It didn't flow. It was like Mount Everest. Really, I
could not see the top and I didn't even know
I was doing it. I just knew it was very
important that I do it. And that's so often the
case with artists is you don't know what the result
is going to be, but at least for the sake
of how it will change you as a person, it
is so worth it.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
And what is the fantasy novel about? I know that
it's Legends of Lemuria. Yeah, they say, right, yeah, is
it right?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
It's this girl who is essentially living in a future
dystopia and she's playing the world's most addictive and illegal
virtual reality game in an underground speakeasy cool and she
discovers a map when she wins the game that leads
to a real fantasy world with dragons and two princes
who try to win her heart. But it blends all
the fantastical elements that I love with the wisdom of
(10:52):
the self help world. But for me, I struggle to
digest information without a story attached to it.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
So interesting. In my culture, we follow or study the Vaders.
It's where most of our spiritual knowledge comes from. And
all the vaders are told in stories. They're all told
like the lessons that are taught are all told through
kings that have done certain things or people in different
positions in their life. But there's always the lesson or
(11:22):
what we're supposed to be learning from. It all comes
through storytelling. And I've always found that so true. It's
always my mum, even when she would want to tell
teach me a lesson, she'd like make up someone to
be like, well, I heard that this person did this once,
and like trying to get me not to do something
through telling a story of somebody else who's experienced it
or been through it. And so yeah, sometimes you have
(11:44):
to either hear it, experience it, or see it for
yourself to really take on the lesson that you're supposed
to be learning. I feel like there's just so many
different types of people and we all learn in different ways.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Right, Yeah, but we get to borrow each other's perspectives
through storytelling and live a thousand lives in one I
get to write Dragons, and I get to go to Hogwarts,
and I get to you know, be some wise stage
that's been meditating for five thousand years, and it's almost
like a cheat code. Hmm.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Yeah, that's so true. I was mentioning before that your
poetry feels like you understand people so deeply, You understand
emotions so deeply for people who are disconnected from their
emotions or have had to put up, had to put
up like what's the word for them, like wolves, or
they've created a hard heart because of anything that they've
(12:33):
been through. What are some of the things that one
can do to really start becoming comfortable with tapping into
their emotions. Hmm.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
I think if you can look at it through the
lens of every emotion is like a different instrument and
a symphony. You know, maybe the violin is your grief
and the piano is your joy, and looking at it
that way so that they all weigh equally on a scale,
because I think so often we're chasing happiness and it's
the act of chasing that actually robs us of contentment.
(13:03):
And so I think if you can really embrace the
human experience and like I said, focus on being a
whole person, yeah versus this ideal, it makes life a
lot more bearable.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
And you created a journal, would you say that when
you journal yourself, do you use a lot of prompts
or do you find you just freewrite from whatever comes
to your mind? Have you found one or the other
more beneficial?
Speaker 2 (13:26):
I actually now when I'm journaling, try to tell the
story of my day as though it's a hero's journey.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Oh that's interesting. I've never had that done before.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
It's like my practice ground. Even if it's mundane and
I went to the grocery store, I still want to
make sure I captured what it smelled like, what it
tasted like, how I physically felt, because it's the practice
of paying attention. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Yeah, And do you find that you like, how do
you go from being somebody who is so so distanced
from their own feelings to creating more meaningful relationship with
other people? Because I find there's one thing about connecting
to yourself, but then a whole other story is connecting
(14:06):
to other people. And so have you found practices of
becoming more vulnerable or to opening your heart out to
somebody else, whether it's in relationships or family, friends or partners,
anything that can help you be more vulnerable or create
a better and more meaningful relationship with someone.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Yeah, I usually find. For me, I just need the
ten seconds of courage to start, because starting is the
most terrifying part where I feel like I'm going to die.
It's like an ice bath when you first get in
and you're like, nope, I'm so sorry, surely not. And
then after a minute you're like, you know what, I
didn't die I can do this, and so if I
want to create a moment of vulnerability, I have to
be the one to initiate that and have the ten
(14:49):
seconds of courage. Even if it is coming out terribly
and I have to face the other direction to say it,
I still have to say it. Because one thing I've
realized is people tend to tell me that I'm very composed,
mysterious yeah, And I think that's hard to relate to
because it's like a one sided mirror where I'm seeing
other people and they're not seeing me right, and therefore
we can't connect. And so I have to be the
(15:11):
one to initiate showing my humanity.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yes, I noticed that when I went through a lot
of social anxiety. I was actually just thinking about this
this morning. One thing I noticed I had to do
when I went into situations where I was feeling really anxious.
So whether it was parties or events, I would have
to tell somebody there that I was anxious, yeah, like
just starting off a conversation with I'm actually really nervous
(15:34):
to be here, and that would make all the difference
because normally that other person is probably anxious too, and
they're like, oh, I can relate or they'll be like,
don't worry, stick with me the whole night. We're gonna
be fine. But that moment of sharing your heart allows
someone else to open up theirs. And You're right, I
think it ends up being this beautiful cycle of if
you can take that one little step, it was just
(15:57):
creates more meaningful conversations, Like I think I heard you speak,
but small talk I can't remember. We're on like another
episode or another podcast that you did. And I think
a big part of connection that we lack when we
go up to these events or go out to places
is you don't feel like you've actually had an exchange.
You feel like you've had words that have come out
of your mouth, but have you had a heart exchange?
(16:19):
Do you are use someone who struggles with small talk?
And how have you managed to change that dynamic when
you go into places and talk to people.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
I think my sense of humor is like my only
way of surviving. And I see you do this too,
when you walk in a room, when you start cracking jokes,
and I'm like, that's the only way to do it
is to just tell the truth in disguise of a joke.
But I think in la and just Western culture especially.
We're all walking bios with resumes ready in our conversation,
(16:48):
and anything that can bring even a moment of humanity
is worth it and makes all the difference.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Yeah. Yeah, do you you know they say most people
who artists end up having a lot of pain to
create beauty from it. Do you think people have to
go through pain to be able to connect deeper to
themselves and to other people? And what was your journey
of the pain that you've been through to create the
(17:17):
beautiful words that you now have.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
I think pain wakes us up to what's in front
of us, and it is the easiest way to shatter
the glass wall that's around your heart. I think if
you stay there, it becomes very dangerous. And that's the
whole club twenty seven of like artists that have killed
themselves at twenty seven. It's why there's so many tortured
artists out there, because you create that association. But I
(17:40):
don't think it has to come from there. You can
write about joy with as much sincerity as you do grief.
You don't have to live a tortured life to be
inspired by it. You just have to pay attention.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
That is so beautiful. Yeah, I think we're so used
to hearing people you feel a lot more emotion these
days when you see someone's pain. But how beautiful if
you could feel that emotion when you see someone's joy.
There's actually this word in Sanskrit called moodiaita. I actually
have a tattooed on me. But because in the English
language there's not really a word for feeling someone else's joy,
(18:12):
deeply feeling someone else's joy, And in Sanskrit, the word
mudata means to feel someone else's joy intensely and deeply.
And I was like, that is so beautiful. I think
we're so used to being okay with feeling other people's pain,
but when it comes to joy, there's often this feeling
of jealousy or not feeling content in yourself, which then
makes you not unable to feel content with someone else's contentness.
(18:37):
And what kind of journey when you're trying to go
through negative emotions and create turn them into positive ones,
have you found there's been a good tool or mechanism
to be able to do that, or what practices do
you have in place for yourself, like on a day
to day basis to turn these shadow emotions into positive ones.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I think I do that through art. If I can
write a poem about it, I can tell a story
about it. The pain becomes beauty. Yeah, and so it's
not that the pain becomes happiness, but it becomes beauty.
And that is all I'm really trying to offer.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yeah, yeah, you have a What we all worry is
is your community, right, yeah? How long has that been
going on?
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Fall like four and a half years.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Oh my gosh. And it's just the whole community of women.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Just women telling their stories every week.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
And what have you found that women in the your
community or I guess it's a good capture of the
largest society of women. One of the things that you
find women struggle with the most within the.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Community feeling like they're too much, you know, feeling like
they're too intense or their emotions are too much. I
think every woman, I know, there's something inside of us
that feels like we're just teetering on the edge of madness.
We even call it crazy so many times that we're like,
surely this is the day that I finally lose it. Yeah,
when in reality, you know, no one would ever say
(19:56):
that about a volcano exploding or a tornado or lightning strike. Yeah,
they would just say that's nature. That's the beauty and
the power of nature, and it is equal parts beauty
and terror. And I think a woman is the closest
thing to that.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Do you think that a lot of it comes from
this constant battle of the masculine and feminine energy? And
how I feel like a lot of men don't realize
that we all have both in us, and some women
don't even realize that we have both masculine and feminine
in us. And how does one balance those energies when
the world predominantly functions in a masculine energy.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
You know, I think for me, at least, it feels
a little like archetypes, where I try to just pay
attention to what the moment is asking of me. Like,
if I'm doing taxes, it probably need some more masculine
energy to force myself to sit there and do it. Yeah,
Versus if I'm writing a poem, I probably need the
feminine fluidity. And I was talking with my best friend
the other day and he said, we want one without
(20:52):
the other. We want a man who's confident without being bulldozed.
We want a woman who's soft and tender, without the
emotional world, when in reality, every energy has its own
double edged sword. And I guess that's my main message
I try to get across is in the embracing the both.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
And yeah, I think in one of your I don't
know where ray is that, I've heard you say this,
but you have to find this strength it takes to
be soft. Could you expand on that a little bit
more and explain how a woman, if they feel like
they are in their masculine energy, how can they soften
and feel like that's okay?
Speaker 2 (21:27):
I think softening can feel like life or death for us.
Sometimes you know those moments where you need to be
vulnerable and you need to say the thing, but your
heart is pounding and your palms are sweating, and you're like,
I don't know if I'm going to survive this one.
This might be the desk And then when you do it,
it oftentimes opens up the richest intimacy and connection.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Yeap.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
And so for me it's exposure therapy.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
What is that? What is exposure therapy?
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Same way of getting in anice bath when you don't
want to but you know it's good for you, or
doing breath work, anything that you resist there's so much
power on the other side of it, and for me
exercising that vulnerable muscle when it's wise to, you know.
I think that's also another key, is not showing all
of yourself to everyone all the time, because I don't
think that's particularly safe. Yeah, so you have to utilize
(22:13):
discernment in that way. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
I like what you said about when it feels appropriate
to I think I changed the wording. But I think
sometimes we've gotten into a state of being so masculine
because we've been vulnerable to the wrong people who aren't
able to handle the other part of us. And so
it's like it's almost like a flower, like you're so delicate.
Especially when you are in that state it is. It
(22:36):
is a more sensitive state to be, and the feminine
energy is flowing and sensitive, and that is the nature
of it. But if you are exposing that to somebody
who isn't ready to appreciate it, that's when I think
the walls can start going up and you then don't
feel comfortable sharing that with anybody else.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah, and then it creates this belief of like, see,
I'm not safe, I've proved myself right, when in reality,
you know, every person's going to be able to hold
a different container. And I guess what I've been doing
recently is trusting my animal, my animal body of like, Okay,
I know within five minutes of meeting someone if I
feel safe with them. It's so instinctive.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
It's so instinctive. I go through situations where I think
it and I'm like, no, I'm being silly, Like don't
don't listen to it. You're being so silly, that's not true.
And then three months down the line or six months
down the line, you're like, I should have listened to
my gut. I shouldn't listened to my gut. And I
think that comes down to a lot of alignment and
really tuning into what your you know, super soul, your
(23:37):
subconscious is telling you. But how do you think someone
can know whether they are one in alignment or two?
How do you know you're really being you? I know
it's a silly question, but I find sometimes I'm like,
is this me? Or is this a version of me
I think I should be or a version of me
that I'm putting out there because I want it to
be me. Like, have you had a feeling of where
(23:57):
you're like, this is me and my authentic self, And
what to you does that feel.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Like it feels really spacious and like there's room to
breathe if I can't really breathe and I feel like
a porcelain doll and I have my little cool jacket
on that I've zipped up and I can't, Like, you know,
there's just I'm rigid. I can't breathe, I can't be myself.
There's no permission to step outside and break character versus
(24:23):
what I'm actually being myself. It feels like I have
all the space in the world.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
And what did you as you've gone through life, and
I'm sure so many different things. What was some of
the things you did to get to know yourself throughout
over the years.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
That's a good question. I think my art has kept
me honest. I think writing and telling stories because it's
a constant, you know, digging for the truth. And so
I know I can feel it when I wrote a
poem and it's not the full, honest truth, yes, and
it forces me to go back and be like really,
So I think the way some people look at meditation
(24:56):
or spiritual practices, I look at my art as well,
and I find that to be my tother back to myself.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Do you find it hard sharing your poems because it's
so much of you? Or is it quite a freeing
process to like put that out there.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
I don't know if freeing would be the word it's
if it's really honest, it's terrifying, and I still feel
anxious sharing it. But I've done it enough times where
I just know I have a higher duty and honor
as an artist to tell the truth and share it.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Your spoken word? Where were you on stage where you
did a spoken word? You and Lexus together?
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Oh, the poetry Lounge.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
That was one of the most spectacular things I've ever
experienced watching online, Like the best use of my time
ever scrolling through social media was watching that. If anybody's listen,
you have to go check it out. But do you
generally just memorize your poems? Do you just have them
in your heart and ready to go.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
I have to memorize them because if I memorize them,
then I'm not thinking about the performance aspect of it.
And my goal is to not perform. When I perform,
and if I'm looking at a thing, it takes away
ninety percent of my presence.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
It's so true I've been doing a bit more speaking
on stages lately, and even if I know what I'm
going to say, there's this feeling of having it as
a crutch. But as soon as those cards are in
my hand, I can't help myself but look at them
ninety percent of the time, and you're so as soon
as you let go of that, you come into yourself,
(26:20):
like you're not in your mind, you're in your heart.
But as soon as I look down at my cards
is back to it. You even say things differently my
vocal like chords completely change the way that I'm presenting
things completely change. It makes such a difference to like
not be held to the words that are on the paper.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Yeah, because you're meant to kind of react to life
and the world around you. I don't mean that in
a bad way, but like you know, you're in constant
dance and response with the moment in front of you
versus this like pre planned thing. And so for me,
if I'm willing to be in a free fall, that's
my favorite times of my performances or panels or whatever
it might be, as being in the free fall.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
You and I know I've only seen you in Alexis together.
But I imagine you have such wonderful friendships because of the
kind of heart that you have. How have you navigated
female friendships? I think a lot of people struggle with that.
I've had friends come to LA and the reason they
wanted to leave is purely because they haven't been able
to create meaningful friendships. Could you share a little bit
(27:22):
about how you've created deep connections with people live along
periods of times and anybody who needs advice on creating friendships.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
For me, it's been creating like a subculture within the
environment here, and the way I could best describe it
as people first, like I will put down my work
to go help a friend. I will let them stay
on my couch. I will go drop them off at
LAX and not tell them to uber. Like I will
go out of my way for the people that I
love because I look at my heart like this little kingdom,
(27:53):
and you know, the people in it are mine to
look after and take care of. And I think there's
this kind of odd thing happening right now. We have
to be independent and we don't need each other when
we're such social creatures. And imagine if we all tended
to each other that way, it would be a very
different world. So for me, I think just prioritizing it.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
I think that the way that we have lack of
interaction in person is the probably the key reason why
we all have so much more anxiety these days because
I think back in the day, like I think about
it when my grandma was living in villages in Africa,
Let's say she constantly or even when she was a
child and she was living in India, she constantly had
(28:36):
She was saying that her doors would be wide open,
like her mom would be cooking and they'd be like,
you wouldn't even know who's walking through the door. The
neighbor's kids would come in, her friends would come in,
like they would be making enough food on a day
to day basis to feed whoever came through the door.
And it was just that natural where everyone's doors were
always open, they'd look after each other's children. It was
(28:58):
just full community living. That was just the norm there.
Now you think about it, it's like, not only do
we have front doors that are always closed, we have
gates in front of the front doors. And then if
we do see people, it's never a lot of the
time you see people on the streets. Sometimes people don't
even say hello to each other. And I think because
the norm of not being in connection with people, that
(29:22):
when you do end up connecting with people or seeing people,
that's why we feel anxious because it doesn't feel like
the norm anymore. So I always think, like, you have
to start just creating these conversations with people, even if
it's random people on the street. Let me just say hello,
or like, start making communication with people a normality versus
making an abnormality. And that's why we end up feeling
(29:43):
so insecure in our friendships, in our relationships, or in
our communities and not building meaningful connections with them.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Yeah. Like, I did a spoken word video recently and
I hired this older grandmother to play me in my nineties,
and she has Alzheimer's and so she would go in
and out of realizing where she was. But she does
these acting jobs and she wasn't concerned about it, Like
it wasn't sad. She'd be like where am I, and
I'd be like la, and she'd be like ah. And
(30:12):
I asked her about it, and she said, what are memories?
You're the people you love, not your memories. And I
found that to be so true. In the moments where
I really look at my life, I just feel proud
of how I love my people far more than anything
I've accomplished, and.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
I feel like that's all people really remember. Let's be honest.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Has there been a topic that you found the hardest
to share in poetry in person when you're sharing your poetry?
Has there been other specific topics that end up being
triggering or difficult to share?
Speaker 2 (30:45):
The most recent one is always the most difficult to
share because it's the closest to creation and to my
personal experience.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Do you have any that you could share with us?
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (30:55):
And I would love that if you don't mind, of course. Okay, amazing, Okay,
anything that you feel like?
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Okay, I guess this is on topic. Should Should I
look at you? Should I look at I? Never know anywhere? Yeah,
I'll just I'll look at you. Okay, You're easy to
look at, a nice, comforting face. Every person we meet
we silently ask, will you love me? The question lies
behind every action, like a thousand scattered clues. We hope
(31:22):
someone will follow all the way into our heart. But
independence would convince us that we don't need each other
like love isn't as vital as the oxygen that we breathe.
So we play little games, asking a question and a joke,
we tell a piece of art, we create, the music
we listen to, and the success we try to create.
(31:42):
When did love become something we don't deserve? When did
fears start pulling our strings and warp love into a
contest of who cares the least? When did heartbreak become
a shameful thing instead of a badge of honor that
we tried for something? When did we start making a
bond of each other? A successful relationship doesn't mean forever,
(32:06):
it means transformation alone is the only time my heart
isn't onlane. But the only way to escape this life
and scape is never care at all. And so I
say to you, break my heart break. Its so wide
open that the whole world can fit between the pieces.
When did love become something we don't deserve? When did
(32:29):
love become a dirty word?
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Oh my gosh, that was amazing, Thank you, Oh my gosh. You.
I feel like you really go into a different zone
when you're sharing a poetry, Like it's so magical to
see you like compose yourself and then share from a
place of authenticity, like I don't feel any ego, no,
like trying to show up in a certain way. It's
(32:52):
like the words are just flowing through you. That's so beautiful.
Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Thank you. I guess one of the images I get
is my best friend's dancer, and I asked him how
he just does improv out of nowhere, and he's like, Oh,
that's just the thing I've practiced holding the flood gates
open the most for and I love that image of
an artist dedicated to their craft. They just know how
to hold the walls open for something greater to come through.
(33:20):
So the greatest masters of their craft have the strongest
ability to push those gates even wider.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Open, to become a vessel.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Yeah, exactly. It's channeling, and that kind of protects you
because you know, you don't have to be the greatest
poet on earth. You just have to hold the gates open, and.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
You kind of realize it's not you. That's the biggest part.
I've found that the only way I can really let
go and do things I'm scared of, or do things
that really I don't think I would have ever thought
I could do, is by realizing that it's not just me,
like it's not it, or sometimes it's not even me,
it is just someone, is just God or the universe
(33:58):
working through you. I was actually I remember hearing this
once by one of my teachers, rather Notasami, about being
a bridge, Like you don't have to be the teacher,
you don't have to be the person who knows everything,
who has everything, but you can be the bridge for
another person to get them to another level and then
someone else will take over from there and they'll take
(34:18):
them across another bridge. And I love that. It's like
what your words are doing is taking someone to another
place where then maybe they'll meet someone or open their
heart to somebody else. It's like the ripple effect that
words have are so powerful.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Yeah, and that's that's all it is. It goes back
to looking after your own corner of the world. Like
do I think I'm saving the entire planet by writing
a poem? Probably not, but that's my bridge. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
I don't think you could save I don't think one
single thing can save the entire world in one go. Anyway.
I think it is, And that's why I think people
people get overwhelmed. They're like, how am I going to
help all these people? How can I help more people?
How can I help the most amount of people with
the the amount of effort? But actually it's the most
amount of effort with multiple people or the least sorry,
(35:06):
let me rephrase that. It's having small effort with multiple
people in those ways that can then create those effects
for them to go on to do that to other people. Yeah,
You've been so amazing, this has been so wonderful. I
really want to I want one. Could you share your books,
all four of them, what their names are and what
(35:28):
people can experience from them. So that's number one, so
to please share your books.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
The first I have three poetry collections, so there's explosions
of a cosmic soul sharrow when I was nineteen, so
don't very much from it. Yep, wow, the Rose that
blooms in the night. And then the Words Left Unspoken
it's the most recent one I've done for poetry. And
then the fantasy book is Legends of Lemeria, and they're all.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Out, all out and what in your heart is like
what's your end goal? Like what's your desire with the
words that you speak? Where do you envision? Or like
what's your manifestation for yourself, for your future. I always
love hearing this, that's your dream, what's my dream?
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Yeah, it's so funny. It doesn't really matter how much
like success happens. The things that fill me up are
the people I love, spending time in nature and writing stories.
And I'm really just down for whatever adventure those three
things take me on. And I like not knowing now.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Yes, I've every time someone asks me, like, what are
you thinking about doing in the next like year or two,
and I was like, honestly, I have no idea. I
know that I'll go with what happens, but I don't
know what. I don't have what. I don't know what's
planned in my future. Right now, all I can do
is take part in the present.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
That's all we have. And I know the things I
love and the ways I like to spend my time.
But I'm down for the mystery.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
And can people come and watch you? Anywhere? Are you?
Do you mainly just do your spoken word in La
or do you travel?
Speaker 2 (36:58):
I will be doing some shows in La soon, so
you'll find that on my Instagram.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
Okay, yeah, oh my gosh, I'm gonna come watch you.
I have to you can't believe I haven't seen you
perform live yet.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Oh, we're gonna have like a pianist and a violinist.
It's gonna be so fun.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Okay, I'm definitely coming. Thank you so much for this
opening conversation. I appreciate you so much, and I'm so
happy we've got to sit down to do this.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Thank you for having me
Do you think people have to go through pain to
be able to connect deeper to themselves and to other people.
Speaker 2 (00:05):
I think pain wakes us up to what's in front
of us today.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
I'm joyed by adding Michelle She's a poet, author and
now a fantasy novelist. In this episode, we dive into
a creative journey and my storytelling can be one of
the most profound tools for healing and retaming your voice.
Speaker 2 (00:20):
We all, especially now, as like walking human personal brands.
We need a place where all the ugly gets to
belong without judgment, and a journal is such a great
way of doing that. The reason we love movies like
Harry Potter or Lot of the Rings or any hero's
journey is because all of those archetypes exist within us.
We all have the villain insight and the hero and
the fall and the wise stage.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
For people who are disconnected from their emotions or they've
created a hard heart because of anything that they've been through,
what are some of the things that one can do
to really start becoming comfortable with tapping into their emotions.
I'm Radi Dvlukiah and on my podcast A Really Good Cry,
we embrace the messy and the beautiful, providing a space
(01:00):
for raw and field of conversations that celebrate vulnerability and
allow you to tune in to learn, connect and find
comfort together. Oh my gosh, Alie, thank you for being here.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
I am so happy to speak to you. I feel
like I've known you for such a long time, but
we've never actually sat down properly to have a conversation.
So I feel like this is a great way for
us to do that. I got to binge so much
of your stuff as I've been trying to like research
and understand how incredible you are. And it has been
(01:31):
such a great journey, not just to observe you, but
also for myself, Like so much of what you write
about and speak about, I feel like you you make
people feel so understood and so seen just by the
words that you use. So first of all, thank you,
thank you. And it is such a gift that you
have that you're sharing with everyone. So you have three books?
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Is it out?
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Four?
Speaker 2 (01:53):
Four?
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Oh my gosh, So you have three poetry books and
then you've just written a novel, right, a fantasy novel. Yes,
let's start from the beginning. I need to know how
you got into poetry, and then what brought you to
writing a fantasy novel.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
I got into poetry because I had really bad social
anxiety as a kid, so I used to write the
kids in my class letters instead of speak to them.
No way. Yeah, and then I started writing little poems,
and I don't know, it just kind of became a
career by accident. But I was writing poetry from like
nine years old.
Speaker 1 (02:22):
Oh my gosh, you still have some of them.
Speaker 2 (02:24):
I have all my old journals from the time I
was like five, used the whole library shelf of them.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
And was generally at that age. Was that something you
got recommended or was that something you just took You
just felt the urge and the desire to put pen
to paper.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
My mom gave it to me, I think because she
just knew somehow that it would help me. It was
one of the only things that unwound those anxious notts
inside of me.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
I can so relate. I feel like when I I've gotten
into this habit because I used to be this person
who whenever someone would upset me, or whenever i'd go
through something with a friend or whether it was in
a relationship, I would constantly want to tell them how
much they've hurt me. Like my natural instinct would be
to blurt out, in whatever words came out of my mouth,
(03:07):
saying you did this, and you did this, and you
should feel bad because of this. And as years went on,
it made me realize how little that helped compared to
having a moment to myself or days to myself where
I'm processing it and writing it out. And so I
learned over time that you don't often have to like
send that message to someone. You don't have to like
send the message. You don't have to let them know
(03:28):
they've hurt you, But by releasing it onto pen to paper,
it actually can relieve so much of what you're feeling.
So I can so relate to that because I think
that that's a big thing that people miss. You always
think that you have to express it to someone, but
sometimes you just need to express it.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
That's most of what it is. And I think we all,
especially now, as like walking human personal brands, we need
a place where all the ugly gets to belong without judgment,
and a journal is such a great way of doing that.
And so as writing where you can really use all
of those darker emotions and thoughts and feelings, so that way,
you're not acting from that place.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Do you find it easy to get to a point
where you aren't acting even when you know it's just you?
Because I find when I first started journaling, and I did,
it started at a much later age than you did,
but I was noticing myself hiding myself from myself. Does
that make sense? Like I will be writing and writing
and writing, and it would almost become like a piece
(04:27):
that I was going to be submitting versus like actually
digging in and finding a way to truly see myself
and truly see what I'm thinking. So for anybody who's
starting out with journaling or starting out trying to understand
their emotions, how can you get past that surface level? Like?
What are the tools or techniques one can use to
(04:49):
stop having that front layer or surface like face that
you put on.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
I think the desire to be a good person can
sometimes stop us from being a whole person. And so
I would say to lean into the ugly because I
can only control the fact that I know I can be.
Can I swear on here?
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (05:07):
I know I can be a judgmental asshole, And that's
how I control it, because I know that's there, and
I've admitted it to myself, and so I can only
control the behaviors that I admit to myself. I call
like the shadow a little monster, and I turn it
into a little character and I'm like, just my little
monster acting Yeah, it's fine, but I know it's there.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
And I think a lot of times when we're journaling,
we want to be flowery and be like, oh no,
it was just this, and I learned so much in this.
But if you give just a very personal space to
yourself to be a whole person, then you're not walking
around in the world unconsciously letting those behaviors rule you
so much.
Speaker 1 (05:43):
Yeah. I was thinking about that this weekend quite a lot, actually,
because I actually get over things quite easily, like if
someone's upset me or hurt me, or if I've gone
through something with someone, I usually get over that very fast.
But I was noticing that there was certain people were
set and things that repeating in my head over and
over again. And I wasn't used to that because I
(06:05):
was like, oh, I'm someone who lets go of everything,
and so I'm fine, but I was noticing that person
or those people kept coming up in my mind as
something that every time I would hear their name, it
would create like a negative energy or negative emotion in
my body or in my mind. And I was speaking
to Jane, I was like, I actually don't know why
I feel that way about those people. And I came
to the realization that I really had to break down
(06:29):
my insecurities the things I feel about myself that actually
ended up being a reflection of why I don't like
them or why they trigger me so deeply. And I
don't think i'd allowed myself to because I was used
to be like, it was them, it's their it's what
they do, it's their personality, They're what triggered me. But
you can only be triggered by someone because you've got
(06:52):
that trigger in you, and like, it takes so long
to get to that realization. But now that I've realized that,
I'm like, oh, okay, so now I need to dig
deeper and figure out why do those things about them
really upset me? And what is it about myself that
I need to change to be able to not have
those things trigger me externally? But how would you recommend
people identify their triggers and then start to process them
(07:14):
through writing or through any other tools that you've developed.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
I think the best writing comes from a strong emotional charge.
And the reason we love movies like Harry Potter or
Lord of the Rings or any hero's journey is because
all of those archetypes exist within us. We all have
the villain insight and the hero and the fool and
the wise stage. And so if I'm looking at someone
and I'm villainizing them, that's in me too.
Speaker 1 (07:38):
Any archetypes. Yes, I need you to tell me more
about archetypes because I think I saw you speak on
them before. Could you explain them, where they've come from
and how they're useful.
Speaker 2 (07:48):
Yeah, the hero's journey comes from Joseph Campbell, and it's
just the writing structure that pretty much any movie you
can think of, whether it's a memoir like Eat, Pray,
Love or something like Harry Potter, all of it uses
the hero's journey. And so there's the hero who starts
out in an ordinary world and then there's an inciting
incident and they go into an extraordinary adventure that transforms them,
(08:09):
and along the way they meet the sage that would
be like yannd Off for Dumbledore, and they have the
friends and they have the full like Rafiki and the
Lion King, or the villain like Voldemort. But Carl Jung,
the psychologists believe that we resonate with it because all
of those archetypes exist within our own psyche.
Speaker 1 (08:26):
Wow, that's so true. And so you're saying we all
have all of them. But do we display different versions
in different times of our life or are you predominantly
one in most of the time.
Speaker 2 (08:38):
I like archetypes because it's not set in stone. It's
not like astrology or the enneagram or human design. It's
just a natural expression of what you're trying to integrate
within your own psyche at the time. So if I'm
trying to integrate the Full, maybe I'm in a very
serious sage like position where I'm projecting wisdom and a
centeredness and I need to lighten up and I need
to be willing to be seen the fool and that
(09:01):
would be the medicine there. Or if I'm the ruler,
maybe I'm in a stage of really serving my people
and stepping up as a leader. You know, life is
such a fluid experience, and recognizing what archetype is trying
to integrate is really helpful.
Speaker 1 (09:15):
Yeah, that's so true. I feel like you might be
the ruler with your children, but then maybe you have
to become one of the other ones when you're at
work or with your partner. So I imagine you can go
through different archetypes throughout the day, in different parts of
your day, if not in different months or years.
Speaker 2 (09:34):
Yeah, every person pulls out a different part of you.
Like with Alexis, I often become the magician, which is
like the healer, and she's the ruler, which is the leader.
And so the two of us understand through those archetypes
how to better relate to each other in a compassionate
way versus that's not who I am with, like a
romantic partner or a different friend.
Speaker 1 (09:53):
How was it writing the fantasy novel as opposed to
doing poetry. Did you feel like there was a shift
in the way that you you had to write in
your imagination or did they kind of flow one flow
into the other.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
It didn't flow. It was like Mount Everest. Really, I
could not see the top and I didn't even know
I was doing it. I just knew it was very
important that I do it. And that's so often the
case with artists is you don't know what the result
is going to be, but at least for the sake
of how it will change you as a person, it
is so worth it.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
And what is the fantasy novel about? I know that
it's Legends of Lemuria. Yeah, they say, right, yeah, is
it right?
Speaker 2 (10:31):
It's this girl who is essentially living in a future
dystopia and she's playing the world's most addictive and illegal
virtual reality game in an underground speakeasy cool and she
discovers a map when she wins the game that leads
to a real fantasy world with dragons and two princes
who try to win her heart. But it blends all
the fantastical elements that I love with the wisdom of
(10:52):
the self help world. But for me, I struggle to
digest information without a story attached to it.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
So interesting. In my culture, we follow or study the Vaders.
It's where most of our spiritual knowledge comes from. And
all the vaders are told in stories. They're all told
like the lessons that are taught are all told through
kings that have done certain things or people in different
positions in their life. But there's always the lesson or
(11:22):
what we're supposed to be learning from. It all comes
through storytelling. And I've always found that so true. It's
always my mum, even when she would want to tell
teach me a lesson, she'd like make up someone to
be like, well, I heard that this person did this once,
and like trying to get me not to do something
through telling a story of somebody else who's experienced it
or been through it. And so yeah, sometimes you have
(11:44):
to either hear it, experience it, or see it for
yourself to really take on the lesson that you're supposed
to be learning. I feel like there's just so many
different types of people and we all learn in different ways.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Right, Yeah, but we get to borrow each other's perspectives
through storytelling and live a thousand lives in one I
get to write Dragons, and I get to go to Hogwarts,
and I get to you know, be some wise stage
that's been meditating for five thousand years, and it's almost
like a cheat code. Hmm.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
Yeah, that's so true. I was mentioning before that your
poetry feels like you understand people so deeply, You understand
emotions so deeply for people who are disconnected from their
emotions or have had to put up, had to put
up like what's the word for them, like wolves, or
they've created a hard heart because of anything that they've
(12:33):
been through. What are some of the things that one
can do to really start becoming comfortable with tapping into
their emotions. Hmm.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
I think if you can look at it through the
lens of every emotion is like a different instrument and
a symphony. You know, maybe the violin is your grief
and the piano is your joy, and looking at it
that way so that they all weigh equally on a scale,
because I think so often we're chasing happiness and it's
the act of chasing that actually robs us of contentment.
(13:03):
And so I think if you can really embrace the
human experience and like I said, focus on being a
whole person, yeah versus this ideal, it makes life a
lot more bearable.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
And you created a journal, would you say that when
you journal yourself, do you use a lot of prompts
or do you find you just freewrite from whatever comes
to your mind? Have you found one or the other
more beneficial?
Speaker 2 (13:26):
I actually now when I'm journaling, try to tell the
story of my day as though it's a hero's journey.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Oh that's interesting. I've never had that done before.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
It's like my practice ground. Even if it's mundane and
I went to the grocery store, I still want to
make sure I captured what it smelled like, what it
tasted like, how I physically felt, because it's the practice
of paying attention. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Yeah, And do you find that you like, how do
you go from being somebody who is so so distanced
from their own feelings to creating more meaningful relationship with
other people? Because I find there's one thing about connecting
to yourself, but then a whole other story is connecting
(14:06):
to other people. And so have you found practices of
becoming more vulnerable or to opening your heart out to
somebody else, whether it's in relationships or family, friends or partners,
anything that can help you be more vulnerable or create
a better and more meaningful relationship with someone.
Speaker 2 (14:27):
Yeah, I usually find. For me, I just need the
ten seconds of courage to start, because starting is the
most terrifying part where I feel like I'm going to die.
It's like an ice bath when you first get in
and you're like, nope, I'm so sorry, surely not. And
then after a minute you're like, you know what, I
didn't die I can do this, and so if I
want to create a moment of vulnerability, I have to
be the one to initiate that and have the ten
(14:49):
seconds of courage. Even if it is coming out terribly
and I have to face the other direction to say it,
I still have to say it. Because one thing I've
realized is people tend to tell me that I'm very composed,
mysterious yeah, And I think that's hard to relate to
because it's like a one sided mirror where I'm seeing
other people and they're not seeing me right, and therefore
we can't connect. And so I have to be the
(15:11):
one to initiate showing my humanity.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Yes, I noticed that when I went through a lot
of social anxiety. I was actually just thinking about this
this morning. One thing I noticed I had to do
when I went into situations where I was feeling really anxious.
So whether it was parties or events, I would have
to tell somebody there that I was anxious, yeah, like
just starting off a conversation with I'm actually really nervous
(15:34):
to be here, and that would make all the difference
because normally that other person is probably anxious too, and
they're like, oh, I can relate or they'll be like,
don't worry, stick with me the whole night. We're gonna
be fine. But that moment of sharing your heart allows
someone else to open up theirs. And You're right, I
think it ends up being this beautiful cycle of if
you can take that one little step, it was just
(15:57):
creates more meaningful conversations, Like I think I heard you speak,
but small talk I can't remember. We're on like another
episode or another podcast that you did. And I think
a big part of connection that we lack when we
go up to these events or go out to places
is you don't feel like you've actually had an exchange.
You feel like you've had words that have come out
of your mouth, but have you had a heart exchange?
(16:19):
Do you are use someone who struggles with small talk?
And how have you managed to change that dynamic when
you go into places and talk to people.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
I think my sense of humor is like my only
way of surviving. And I see you do this too,
when you walk in a room, when you start cracking jokes,
and I'm like, that's the only way to do it
is to just tell the truth in disguise of a joke.
But I think in la and just Western culture especially.
We're all walking bios with resumes ready in our conversation,
(16:48):
and anything that can bring even a moment of humanity
is worth it and makes all the difference.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Yeah. Yeah, do you you know they say most people
who artists end up having a lot of pain to
create beauty from it. Do you think people have to
go through pain to be able to connect deeper to
themselves and to other people? And what was your journey
of the pain that you've been through to create the
(17:17):
beautiful words that you now have.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
I think pain wakes us up to what's in front
of us, and it is the easiest way to shatter
the glass wall that's around your heart. I think if
you stay there, it becomes very dangerous. And that's the
whole club twenty seven of like artists that have killed
themselves at twenty seven. It's why there's so many tortured
artists out there, because you create that association. But I
(17:40):
don't think it has to come from there. You can
write about joy with as much sincerity as you do grief.
You don't have to live a tortured life to be
inspired by it. You just have to pay attention.
Speaker 1 (17:50):
That is so beautiful. Yeah, I think we're so used
to hearing people you feel a lot more emotion these
days when you see someone's pain. But how beautiful if
you could feel that emotion when you see someone's joy.
There's actually this word in Sanskrit called moodiaita. I actually
have a tattooed on me. But because in the English
language there's not really a word for feeling someone else's joy,
(18:12):
deeply feeling someone else's joy, And in Sanskrit, the word
mudata means to feel someone else's joy intensely and deeply.
And I was like, that is so beautiful. I think
we're so used to being okay with feeling other people's pain,
but when it comes to joy, there's often this feeling
of jealousy or not feeling content in yourself, which then
makes you not unable to feel content with someone else's contentness.
(18:37):
And what kind of journey when you're trying to go
through negative emotions and create turn them into positive ones,
have you found there's been a good tool or mechanism
to be able to do that, or what practices do
you have in place for yourself, like on a day
to day basis to turn these shadow emotions into positive ones.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I think I do that through art. If I can
write a poem about it, I can tell a story
about it. The pain becomes beauty. Yeah, and so it's
not that the pain becomes happiness, but it becomes beauty.
And that is all I'm really trying to offer.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
Yeah, yeah, you have a What we all worry is
is your community, right, yeah? How long has that been
going on?
Speaker 2 (19:16):
Fall like four and a half years.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Oh my gosh. And it's just the whole community of women.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
Just women telling their stories every week.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
And what have you found that women in the your
community or I guess it's a good capture of the
largest society of women. One of the things that you
find women struggle with the most within the.
Speaker 2 (19:34):
Community feeling like they're too much, you know, feeling like
they're too intense or their emotions are too much. I
think every woman, I know, there's something inside of us
that feels like we're just teetering on the edge of madness.
We even call it crazy so many times that we're like,
surely this is the day that I finally lose it. Yeah,
when in reality, you know, no one would ever say
(19:56):
that about a volcano exploding or a tornado or lightning strike. Yeah,
they would just say that's nature. That's the beauty and
the power of nature, and it is equal parts beauty
and terror. And I think a woman is the closest
thing to that.
Speaker 1 (20:08):
Do you think that a lot of it comes from
this constant battle of the masculine and feminine energy? And
how I feel like a lot of men don't realize
that we all have both in us, and some women
don't even realize that we have both masculine and feminine
in us. And how does one balance those energies when
the world predominantly functions in a masculine energy.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
You know, I think for me, at least, it feels
a little like archetypes, where I try to just pay
attention to what the moment is asking of me. Like,
if I'm doing taxes, it probably need some more masculine
energy to force myself to sit there and do it. Yeah,
Versus if I'm writing a poem, I probably need the
feminine fluidity. And I was talking with my best friend
the other day and he said, we want one without
(20:52):
the other. We want a man who's confident without being bulldozed.
We want a woman who's soft and tender, without the
emotional world, when in reality, every energy has its own
double edged sword. And I guess that's my main message
I try to get across is in the embracing the both.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
And yeah, I think in one of your I don't
know where ray is that, I've heard you say this,
but you have to find this strength it takes to
be soft. Could you expand on that a little bit
more and explain how a woman, if they feel like
they are in their masculine energy, how can they soften
and feel like that's okay?
Speaker 2 (21:27):
I think softening can feel like life or death for us.
Sometimes you know those moments where you need to be
vulnerable and you need to say the thing, but your
heart is pounding and your palms are sweating, and you're like,
I don't know if I'm going to survive this one.
This might be the desk And then when you do it,
it oftentimes opens up the richest intimacy and connection.
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Yeap.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
And so for me it's exposure therapy.
Speaker 1 (21:50):
What is that? What is exposure therapy?
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Same way of getting in anice bath when you don't
want to but you know it's good for you, or
doing breath work, anything that you resist there's so much
power on the other side of it, and for me
exercising that vulnerable muscle when it's wise to, you know.
I think that's also another key, is not showing all
of yourself to everyone all the time, because I don't
think that's particularly safe. Yeah, so you have to utilize
(22:13):
discernment in that way. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:15):
I like what you said about when it feels appropriate
to I think I changed the wording. But I think
sometimes we've gotten into a state of being so masculine
because we've been vulnerable to the wrong people who aren't
able to handle the other part of us. And so
it's like it's almost like a flower, like you're so delicate.
Especially when you are in that state it is. It
(22:36):
is a more sensitive state to be, and the feminine
energy is flowing and sensitive, and that is the nature
of it. But if you are exposing that to somebody
who isn't ready to appreciate it, that's when I think
the walls can start going up and you then don't
feel comfortable sharing that with anybody else.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
Yeah, and then it creates this belief of like, see,
I'm not safe, I've proved myself right, when in reality,
you know, every person's going to be able to hold
a different container. And I guess what I've been doing
recently is trusting my animal, my animal body of like, Okay,
I know within five minutes of meeting someone if I
feel safe with them. It's so instinctive.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
It's so instinctive. I go through situations where I think
it and I'm like, no, I'm being silly, Like don't
don't listen to it. You're being so silly, that's not true.
And then three months down the line or six months
down the line, you're like, I should have listened to
my gut. I shouldn't listened to my gut. And I
think that comes down to a lot of alignment and
really tuning into what your you know, super soul, your
(23:37):
subconscious is telling you. But how do you think someone
can know whether they are one in alignment or two?
How do you know you're really being you? I know
it's a silly question, but I find sometimes I'm like,
is this me? Or is this a version of me
I think I should be or a version of me
that I'm putting out there because I want it to
be me. Like, have you had a feeling of where
(23:57):
you're like, this is me and my authentic self, And
what to you does that feel.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Like it feels really spacious and like there's room to
breathe if I can't really breathe and I feel like
a porcelain doll and I have my little cool jacket
on that I've zipped up and I can't, Like, you know,
there's just I'm rigid. I can't breathe, I can't be myself.
There's no permission to step outside and break character versus
(24:23):
what I'm actually being myself. It feels like I have
all the space in the world.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
And what did you as you've gone through life, and
I'm sure so many different things. What was some of
the things you did to get to know yourself throughout
over the years.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
That's a good question. I think my art has kept
me honest. I think writing and telling stories because it's
a constant, you know, digging for the truth. And so
I know I can feel it when I wrote a
poem and it's not the full, honest truth, yes, and
it forces me to go back and be like really,
So I think the way some people look at meditation
(24:56):
or spiritual practices, I look at my art as well,
and I find that to be my tother back to myself.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Do you find it hard sharing your poems because it's
so much of you? Or is it quite a freeing
process to like put that out there.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
I don't know if freeing would be the word it's
if it's really honest, it's terrifying, and I still feel
anxious sharing it. But I've done it enough times where
I just know I have a higher duty and honor
as an artist to tell the truth and share it.
Speaker 1 (25:23):
Your spoken word? Where were you on stage where you
did a spoken word? You and Lexus together?
Speaker 2 (25:29):
Oh, the poetry Lounge.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
That was one of the most spectacular things I've ever
experienced watching online, Like the best use of my time
ever scrolling through social media was watching that. If anybody's listen,
you have to go check it out. But do you
generally just memorize your poems? Do you just have them
in your heart and ready to go.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
I have to memorize them because if I memorize them,
then I'm not thinking about the performance aspect of it.
And my goal is to not perform. When I perform,
and if I'm looking at a thing, it takes away
ninety percent of my presence.
Speaker 1 (25:59):
It's so true I've been doing a bit more speaking
on stages lately, and even if I know what I'm
going to say, there's this feeling of having it as
a crutch. But as soon as those cards are in
my hand, I can't help myself but look at them
ninety percent of the time, and you're so as soon
as you let go of that, you come into yourself,
(26:20):
like you're not in your mind, you're in your heart.
But as soon as I look down at my cards
is back to it. You even say things differently my
vocal like chords completely change the way that I'm presenting
things completely change. It makes such a difference to like
not be held to the words that are on the paper.
Speaker 2 (26:38):
Yeah, because you're meant to kind of react to life
and the world around you. I don't mean that in
a bad way, but like you know, you're in constant
dance and response with the moment in front of you
versus this like pre planned thing. And so for me,
if I'm willing to be in a free fall, that's
my favorite times of my performances or panels or whatever
it might be, as being in the free fall.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
You and I know I've only seen you in Alexis together.
But I imagine you have such wonderful friendships because of the
kind of heart that you have. How have you navigated
female friendships? I think a lot of people struggle with that.
I've had friends come to LA and the reason they
wanted to leave is purely because they haven't been able
to create meaningful friendships. Could you share a little bit
(27:22):
about how you've created deep connections with people live along
periods of times and anybody who needs advice on creating friendships.
Speaker 2 (27:30):
For me, it's been creating like a subculture within the
environment here, and the way I could best describe it
as people first, like I will put down my work
to go help a friend. I will let them stay
on my couch. I will go drop them off at
LAX and not tell them to uber. Like I will
go out of my way for the people that I
love because I look at my heart like this little kingdom,
(27:53):
and you know, the people in it are mine to
look after and take care of. And I think there's
this kind of odd thing happening right now. We have
to be independent and we don't need each other when
we're such social creatures. And imagine if we all tended
to each other that way, it would be a very
different world. So for me, I think just prioritizing it.
Speaker 1 (28:13):
I think that the way that we have lack of
interaction in person is the probably the key reason why
we all have so much more anxiety these days because
I think back in the day, like I think about
it when my grandma was living in villages in Africa,
Let's say she constantly or even when she was a
child and she was living in India, she constantly had
(28:36):
She was saying that her doors would be wide open,
like her mom would be cooking and they'd be like,
you wouldn't even know who's walking through the door. The
neighbor's kids would come in, her friends would come in,
like they would be making enough food on a day
to day basis to feed whoever came through the door.
And it was just that natural where everyone's doors were
always open, they'd look after each other's children. It was
(28:58):
just full community living. That was just the norm there.
Now you think about it, it's like, not only do
we have front doors that are always closed, we have
gates in front of the front doors. And then if
we do see people, it's never a lot of the
time you see people on the streets. Sometimes people don't
even say hello to each other. And I think because
the norm of not being in connection with people, that
(29:22):
when you do end up connecting with people or seeing people,
that's why we feel anxious because it doesn't feel like
the norm anymore. So I always think, like, you have
to start just creating these conversations with people, even if
it's random people on the street. Let me just say hello,
or like, start making communication with people a normality versus
making an abnormality. And that's why we end up feeling
(29:43):
so insecure in our friendships, in our relationships, or in
our communities and not building meaningful connections with them.
Speaker 2 (29:50):
Yeah. Like, I did a spoken word video recently and
I hired this older grandmother to play me in my nineties,
and she has Alzheimer's and so she would go in
and out of realizing where she was. But she does
these acting jobs and she wasn't concerned about it, Like
it wasn't sad. She'd be like where am I, and
I'd be like la, and she'd be like ah. And
(30:12):
I asked her about it, and she said, what are memories?
You're the people you love, not your memories. And I
found that to be so true. In the moments where
I really look at my life, I just feel proud
of how I love my people far more than anything
I've accomplished, and.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
I feel like that's all people really remember. Let's be honest.
Speaker 2 (30:29):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (30:30):
Has there been a topic that you found the hardest
to share in poetry in person when you're sharing your poetry?
Has there been other specific topics that end up being
triggering or difficult to share?
Speaker 2 (30:45):
The most recent one is always the most difficult to
share because it's the closest to creation and to my
personal experience.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
Do you have any that you could share with us?
Speaker 2 (30:54):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (30:55):
And I would love that if you don't mind, of course. Okay, amazing, Okay,
anything that you feel like?
Speaker 2 (31:00):
Okay, I guess this is on topic. Should Should I
look at you? Should I look at I? Never know anywhere? Yeah,
I'll just I'll look at you. Okay, You're easy to
look at, a nice, comforting face. Every person we meet
we silently ask, will you love me? The question lies
behind every action, like a thousand scattered clues. We hope
(31:22):
someone will follow all the way into our heart. But
independence would convince us that we don't need each other
like love isn't as vital as the oxygen that we breathe.
So we play little games, asking a question and a joke,
we tell a piece of art, we create, the music
we listen to, and the success we try to create.
(31:42):
When did love become something we don't deserve? When did
fears start pulling our strings and warp love into a
contest of who cares the least? When did heartbreak become
a shameful thing instead of a badge of honor that
we tried for something? When did we start making a
bond of each other? A successful relationship doesn't mean forever,
(32:06):
it means transformation alone is the only time my heart
isn't onlane. But the only way to escape this life
and scape is never care at all. And so I
say to you, break my heart break. Its so wide
open that the whole world can fit between the pieces.
When did love become something we don't deserve? When did
(32:29):
love become a dirty word?
Speaker 1 (32:32):
Oh my gosh, that was amazing, Thank you, Oh my gosh. You.
I feel like you really go into a different zone
when you're sharing a poetry, Like it's so magical to
see you like compose yourself and then share from a
place of authenticity, like I don't feel any ego, no,
like trying to show up in a certain way. It's
(32:52):
like the words are just flowing through you. That's so beautiful.
Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
Thank you. I guess one of the images I get
is my best friend's dancer, and I asked him how
he just does improv out of nowhere, and he's like, Oh,
that's just the thing I've practiced holding the flood gates
open the most for and I love that image of
an artist dedicated to their craft. They just know how
to hold the walls open for something greater to come through.
(33:20):
So the greatest masters of their craft have the strongest
ability to push those gates even wider.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Open, to become a vessel.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
Yeah, exactly. It's channeling, and that kind of protects you
because you know, you don't have to be the greatest
poet on earth. You just have to hold the gates open, and.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
You kind of realize it's not you. That's the biggest part.
I've found that the only way I can really let
go and do things I'm scared of, or do things
that really I don't think I would have ever thought
I could do, is by realizing that it's not just me,
like it's not it, or sometimes it's not even me,
it is just someone, is just God or the universe
(33:58):
working through you. I was actually I remember hearing this
once by one of my teachers, rather Notasami, about being
a bridge, Like you don't have to be the teacher,
you don't have to be the person who knows everything,
who has everything, but you can be the bridge for
another person to get them to another level and then
someone else will take over from there and they'll take
(34:18):
them across another bridge. And I love that. It's like
what your words are doing is taking someone to another
place where then maybe they'll meet someone or open their
heart to somebody else. It's like the ripple effect that
words have are so powerful.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Yeah, and that's that's all it is. It goes back
to looking after your own corner of the world. Like
do I think I'm saving the entire planet by writing
a poem? Probably not, but that's my bridge. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
I don't think you could save I don't think one
single thing can save the entire world in one go. Anyway.
I think it is, And that's why I think people
people get overwhelmed. They're like, how am I going to
help all these people? How can I help more people?
How can I help the most amount of people with
the the amount of effort? But actually it's the most
amount of effort with multiple people or the least sorry,
(35:06):
let me rephrase that. It's having small effort with multiple
people in those ways that can then create those effects
for them to go on to do that to other people. Yeah,
You've been so amazing, this has been so wonderful. I
really want to I want one. Could you share your books,
all four of them, what their names are and what
(35:28):
people can experience from them. So that's number one, so
to please share your books.
Speaker 2 (35:35):
The first I have three poetry collections, so there's explosions
of a cosmic soul sharrow when I was nineteen, so
don't very much from it. Yep, wow, the Rose that
blooms in the night. And then the Words Left Unspoken
it's the most recent one I've done for poetry. And
then the fantasy book is Legends of Lemeria, and they're all.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
Out, all out and what in your heart is like
what's your end goal? Like what's your desire with the
words that you speak? Where do you envision? Or like
what's your manifestation for yourself, for your future. I always
love hearing this, that's your dream, what's my dream?
Speaker 2 (36:09):
Yeah, it's so funny. It doesn't really matter how much
like success happens. The things that fill me up are
the people I love, spending time in nature and writing stories.
And I'm really just down for whatever adventure those three
things take me on. And I like not knowing now.
Speaker 1 (36:27):
Yes, I've every time someone asks me, like, what are
you thinking about doing in the next like year or two,
and I was like, honestly, I have no idea. I
know that I'll go with what happens, but I don't
know what. I don't have what. I don't know what's
planned in my future. Right now, all I can do
is take part in the present.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
That's all we have. And I know the things I
love and the ways I like to spend my time.
But I'm down for the mystery.
Speaker 1 (36:50):
And can people come and watch you? Anywhere? Are you?
Do you mainly just do your spoken word in La
or do you travel?
Speaker 2 (36:58):
I will be doing some shows in La soon, so
you'll find that on my Instagram.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
Okay, yeah, oh my gosh, I'm gonna come watch you.
I have to you can't believe I haven't seen you
perform live yet.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
Oh, we're gonna have like a pianist and a violinist.
It's gonna be so fun.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Okay, I'm definitely coming. Thank you so much for this
opening conversation. I appreciate you so much, and I'm so
happy we've got to sit down to do this.
Speaker 2 (37:17):
Thank you for having me
Host
Radhi Devlukia
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