Can the future of food be both delicious and sustainable?
In this episode of A Really Good Cry, I chat with Camila Marcus, an inspiring chef, restaurateur, and sustainability advocate. Known for her pioneering work in promoting ethical dining, Camila shares her journey from growing up in Los Angeles to creating a more sustainable future for the food industry.
We explore the concept of regenerative farming, how restaurants can drive environmental change, and practical ways to contribute to a healthier planet. Camila’s wisdom on balancing innovation, responsibility, and profitability offers a fresh perspective on the future of food.
What We Discuss:
- 00:00 Intro
- 01:38 What is regenerative farming?
- 04:58 The language of food
- 09:06 Why farmers choose monocropping
- 11:17 “Lab food never solved any problems…”
- 14:17 Intellectual property rights in the food industry
- 16:10 Sustainability vs. trends in food
- 18:56 How to get started with regenerative living
- 25:17 Misconceptions about healthy eating
- 27:29 Starting a farm at home
- 34:26 Balancing motherhood and career with four kids
- 37:14 Camila’s IVF journey
- 41:59 The importance of community
- 44:28 Why we need to talk about IVF more
Follow Camila:
- https://www.instagram.com/camilla.marcus/
- https://www.tiktok.com/@camilla.marcus
- My Regenerative Kitchen Book
Follow Radhi:
- https://www.instagram.com/radhidevlukia/
- https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxWe9A4kMf9V_AHOXkGhCzQ
- https://www.facebook.com/radhidevlukia1/
- https://www.tiktok.com/@radhidevlukia
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
I'm rather Dablukiah, and on my podcast A Really Good Cry,
we embrace the messy and the beautiful, providing a space
for raw, unfiltered conversations that celebrate vulnerability and allow you
to tune in to learn, connect and find comfort together. Tilla,
thank you so much for coming onto this podcast. It
means so much to me. We met a couple of
(00:20):
months ago, I think, and maybe even wait, maybe even
like a year ago. We met at an event we
did and yes, shout out to Rothi's and I immediately
when I met you, you had such a calm nature
about you. I didn't even know what you did, I
didn't know anything about you, but I felt like nature
lived in you and that I could feel your earthly
presence in just the way that you spoke. And I
(00:42):
really appreciated that about you. I just want to introduce
you quickly to the audience before I keep go keep
like loving on you. Kevilla Marcus is an incredible chef,
had an incredible restaurant in New York that I want
to learn so much more about your beautiful content creator,
and I just think that what you share with the
world is so needed right now and I'm so excited
(01:02):
for everybody to hear your wisdom and everything that comes
from you.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Well, it's a mutual fan club because I'm a big
fan of yours from Afar for a long time and
all the same. I just we need more powerful voices
and sort of the food movement and aligning with wellness,
and I think you do so in such a loving,
thoughtful but also.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Such an approachable way.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
We all want to live in your world, that is
for sure. So get to visit for the day.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yes, I need to come to your house. Oh my gosh,
your farm is my dream farm. I need that.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Well, I'll have you come over and then you can,
you know, bring it home.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Yeah. Perfect. So you have created a book called My
Regenerative Kitchen, and when I first read that one, it
looks gorgeous. The pictures are beautiful, the recipes look incredible.
But my first question is I feel like most people
don't know what regenerative kitchen means or what reg regenerative
farming is. So would you mind explaining that and what
(01:55):
brought you to this?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Well, I mean on our on our Instagram for west
Porn and myself, it's actually a pinned post for that
reason because we get that question a lot, and it's
interesting to me because I don't think the average person
could probably tell you what organic means either, but they
know it's sort of good for you, right. It lives
in this category of better than the way it used
to be. And for me, the best way to think
(02:19):
of regenerative is that next wave beyond organic, So it's
really about building an ecosystem that is natural, that has
resilience for climate change and pulls carbon into the soil.
What that means is there's a number of different practices.
Farms will use them in varying degrees, and I think
that's also why people sometimes have a hard time pinning
(02:41):
the definition, because it's not one size fits one. So
organic is no use of chemicals or pesticides. That is
one of the practices is that these farms are organic.
Two is a lot of focus on biodiversity, so it's
not monocrop. It's you know, looking at a farm and
sying all different kinds of crops that feed into each
(03:02):
other and also help the use of no pesticides helps
with water conservation because they feed and build on each
other in really unique ways, which is how nature intended
right before we humans came and kind of messed it
all up. In some instances, it's planned grazing and then
the use of cover crops, so things like buckwheat, oats.
(03:23):
It's a lot of really amazing crops that are both
delicious and you know, we eat, but also make sure
that the land is not fallow. So it's not about
pumping as much corn as you can on one plot
of land and then letting it sit, you know, for months,
if not years on end. And then lastly, along with
the water, conservation is also a focus on so we
(03:47):
touch biodiversity, focus on.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Carbon.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
So the way that I describe it is right, if
you were to go to any roadside in a major city,
you grab the earth beneath a tree, it's going to
look chalky, it's going to have a light color, very dry.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
It looks like dirt. Right. It doesn't look like soil.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
When you plant a garden or you go to a
home depot, you get really rich soil. It's dark black,
it's moist, it's wet, it sticks in your hand, it
has organisms inside. It's not one color. That is the
difference between traditional industrial monocrop farming the dirt. It's stripping
(04:30):
everything from the land where it no longer is soil.
And when it pulls down carbon from the atmosphere into
the soil, and you have this really rich ecosystem, you're
going to get that really like delicious soil that feels
like the earth, that feels like what in our minds
we hear of the earth. So that, in a nutshell,
(04:51):
is what regenerative farming can and is doing amazing.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
And how did you begin your journey into learning about this?
And you know, take me back to your teen years
or even your childhood, and I would love to hear
how you became who you are now and how you
got into food and consciously learning and living with the planet. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
So I'm born and raised in Los Angeles, Okay, one
of the rare second generation locals. My mom is also
born and raised here. Her family kind of migrated from
the East Coast and the Midwest. She was the firstborn here,
So I mean, really being from the heart of Los Angeles, right,
We shopped at farmers' markets, we went to our farms,
we met our farmers. My next door neighbor was missus
(05:37):
Gooch growing up, and she was the predecessor to Whole Foods.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
They bought her stores.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
When they came here, and so you know, my next
door neighbors, she would test all the new products on us,
and you know, we grew up with I always say
I had the untradeable lunch. Like you know, in the
eighties and nineties, it was not cool to have what
is now cool, right, the natural food. We had no sugar.
You know, my mom was very healthy bunches. We ate
very plant forward. We didn't call it, you know, no
(06:04):
one called it that it was. But you know, as
a kid in middle school, wasn't that fun to have
like no one want anything ye lunch?
Speaker 1 (06:11):
You know?
Speaker 3 (06:12):
And I was like, why marios exactly?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
And my mom's like, later you'll thank me, and she's right, thanks, mom.
You know, just we thought about recycling and composting. My
elementary school had all of that infrastructure. And then of course,
you know, I go to college in Philadelphia and it's
like you could not get a bigger one to eighty
than you know, hippie Los Angeles and.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Like West Philadelphia.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
You know, start contrast, and so I think for me food,
you know, my family's not that into food.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
They're not that into restaurants.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
I do think it's just very much the seedling within me,
and I just always saw it as the most universal
language we have. It is the best way to express
your love. It is the thing that we all understand,
and to me, it was also the best way that.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Cultures to each other.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Right, Like soup, every culture has a shared soup language,
even though we call it different things, it might have
a slightly different spice. You kind of trace the origins
around human patterns on this planet over time. I think
that history, I think that richness of culture and that
universal language. For me, it just spoke to me when
(07:22):
I was young. It's the best way I can show
someone how I feel. I'm not really I am an extrovert,
but I'm not really good with words. I'm much better
at showing. And I think for me, that's just it
always spoke to me. And then I started getting really
into restaurants because I always felt like they were the
cultural change makers. Right, what you learn about food? I mean,
(07:46):
I do my own research and I'm very into farming,
but most people learn about food through restaurants.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
You learn about a new ingredient, a new technique. Right,
Even like this whole movement towards plant based eating has
been so sparked by cookbook authors like yourself, people on
TV cooking and restaurants, and so I think I just
saw that as a really big centerpiece to be change agents.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
And did you move to New York when you obviously
in New York when you started your restaurant.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
What was your restaurant called Westbourne?
Speaker 1 (08:17):
West? Oh? Yeah, I forgot to mention at the beginning.
You have this incredible gorgeous company called Westbourne out of
oils both Stamachs. What else do you have that?
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Like you, I row a lot of boats.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Our entire platform is really about creating food based on
the biodiversity of regenerative farms. We are plastic free, carbon
neutral supply chain, and the idea is really how do
we help farmers monetize all this gorgeous, you know, produce
that they're growing on these farms. If it's not going
to be monocrop, we have to be a lot more
creative in how we're creating products because they're going to
(08:49):
have this richness of ingredients on the land that now.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
We have to think about products different.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Right.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
I can't go and say I want you know, only
oats for all time. We have to be much more
nimble and flexible on how we think about food.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
The reason that farmers doing monocrop is that because it's
just the cheaper option. Like what is you know, what
stops someone from or what stops the farm? Obviously that's
what you're promoting saying we need more diversity. What is
the main reason that farms do only do specific crops
and don't do what you're recommending.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
So one of the you know, big taglines in our
company is we're so progressive that we're going back in time.
And it all really stems from the Industrial Revolution. It's
post war. This whole country shifted so many things with
this sort of massive historical fracture. It became about growing
food fast, cheap, easy, lot of tax incentives, a lot
(09:45):
of subsidies. It was really government created to be this
sort of engine, and then somehow.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
We lost the plot.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
It's like, okay, that was fine in that moment, but
as we've gone through each of these decades, it's not
necessary anymore. People forget. I always say, remember plastic is
cheap because we subsidize it. Plastic is not inherently cheap. Wow,
we have funded it if we decided as a country
we want to shift tax incentives and our financial system
(10:13):
towards renewables, towards compostables, towards you know, there's a lot
of packaging related to algae, so all this incredible material
science now breaking through. They're more expensive, not because they're
more expensive.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Because there's no demand for it, or like they're not
getting incentivized.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
If the government said tomorrow we're done with the plastic industry,
We're going to put all of that into algae packaging.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Now, algae packaging would be cheap. We forget.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
So I always tell people follow the money and that
will explain everything in the food system.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
And I say that.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
As a real capitalist but also a little bit dismayed.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
But that's what it comes down to.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
I mean, we just have to look back and say
nature had a really different mandate in ethos, We lived
with nature very differently before the Industrial Revolution, and all
the reasons that we switch behaviors, that imperative doesn't exist anymore,
so we need to sort of close that chapter and
go back in time. That to me, is what being
(11:12):
progressive is really about.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
In this way. I completely agree with you. I was
you know, I always think that disconnect of I think
ill health comes from a disconnect not just from yourself,
but from your disconnect from nature. And as soon as
you're not able to connect with the environment around you,
and it doesn't just mean being in the environment, it
means how can I contribute to the environment, How can
I have an exchange with this environment? Because earth is alive,
(11:36):
the soil is alive, like everything around us, the environment
is breathing, and so to not be able to be
so disconnected that you're not even conscious of how you're
harming the environment around you, how it is existing around you,
like we don't I personally, even though I have such
a deep connection to food. When I was you know,
reading your book and when I've been watching what you've
(11:57):
been doing, I feel like I have so much that
I need to learn about growing my food, about where
my food is coming from, about all those things. Because
growing up in London, we didn't really do farmer's markets,
Like it wasn't a thing. You go to the store
and you buy your food. Whereas here coming to farmers' markets,
talking to the farmers, hearing like what they're growing, and
they're like, oh, this week I've got this, and I'm like,
(12:18):
oh wow, there's so many different things that you can
grow in just one place. And I think that disconnection
is not only obviously harming the environment, it's really what
is causing lack of health in people's bodies.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
So sure, what's better for the earth is always better
for our health. And again you follow the money, massive
amounts of capital, venture capital, public capital has been going
into quote unquote climate solutions in food. Think about everything
that we've really been focusing on in media and in
the capital markets, everything's been Billions have been going into
(12:53):
lab created food. Yes, so it's the beginning of time.
Lab created food has never solved any problems. That is
not good for our health. It has never been cheaper, right,
the whole promise was, oh, we'll feed everyone, no one
will ever go hungry.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
It's like, well, it's.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Like dead matter from the moment it is made in
a lab, like it's not.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
And labs are expensive.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Science is expensive. Since when did we think that was
going to be cheaper than agriculture. I think, you know, again,
we sort of always say the solution lies with the land,
not in a lab. We forget, fifty percent of American
land is still farmland today.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
If we move food production off that land, we have
a bigger carbon problem. Think about that.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Regenerative agriculture is the only system that can pull down
carbon in time to solve this climate crisis. The fact
that not every dollar, every article, every show, every piece
of attention is not going into that is mind boggling.
And all these other things are just distractions. And to
your point, they're also ruining human health. We know from generations,
we know from history anything that's lab created has health consequences.
(13:57):
And what ends up feeding that soil brings forward way
higher nutrient dense food, and that's facts. You know. It's like,
let's look at the facts. It's not like believe for
you know, people always say I'm woo woo. I'm like,
it's will but it's also.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Yeah, exactly, And I don't want to go into like,
you know, theories or anything, but is the main reason
for why, you know, the focus isn't on regenerative living
purely money related in terms of like why if that
feels like the obvious answer, because that's what's going through
my head. I'm like, everything will say it makes so
(14:34):
much sense, so like why would that not be happening, Like,
why would the money if if that's going to be
better for people, if that's going to be better for
the environment, is it a less is it an option
that is going to create less money?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
I think, you know my one person's opinion. When you
sort of read the tea leaves and you think about
again the incentives and you sort of follow the money,
A lot of it comes down to IP. So intellectual
property in this country really doesn't include food. So like
recipes are not protectable? Will so I always say to
someone what's the difference between putting together a recipe and
(15:09):
putting together an algorithm? You're using zeros in ones those
aren't ownable, but your combination of zeros and ones is.
How is a recipe not protectable? How is food production
not protectable? There's so many areas that are Again, our
legal system doesn't protect and a lot of investors want
things that they feel are protectable. They feel that there's
(15:31):
a moat, they feel that they feel that that makes
that food company right that has a patent, Oh, well,
that's going to make them not have competition. And I
always say it to investors, Okay, but if it's not
a viable business who cares that they have patents. They
can have twenty patents. If it's not food people want
to eat. If it's not food, then in the long term,
is going to be sustainable. If it's not delicious, great,
(15:51):
you're going to have a patent on the wall, right,
you know. And we've seen that just because money is
going in doesn't mean they're making money out of it.
And a lot of these you know, this trend in
food over the last ten twenty years has proven to
be a bubble. It's not actually money's going in, but
money's not coming out per se, and.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
It fades, like the trends that have come even with
you know, plant based foods and the things which are
alternatives and whatever. It's like within a short period of time,
you see people are just off it and like it's
not something that feels sustainable or by sustainable silent. Yes,
it just.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Does the best news and that people are like, eh,
I actually don't want that to be my food.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Yeah, it's so true.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
But then you look at a company like Patagonia, right,
they were one of the first to pioneer organic cotton,
which now is table stakes. You know, would they necessarily
in today's world be seen as you know, a venture
capital darling. No, but look what they've been able to create.
Look at what they've been able to do over a
very long period of time. Doing it right in the
long run, I think pays. The problem is we get
(16:57):
very distracted and a lot of you know, investors get
very distracted.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
I think was short term.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Trends, and then media feeds that. Right you look at
the headlines business of fashion. By contrast, fashion and beauty
are way ahead of food. Business of fashion every week
write something on regenerative textiles. They promote heavily sustainable businesses.
They're very loud about it, and you're seeing even articles
around it around fashion week every season. They're highlighting new textiles,
(17:27):
new innovations. Yes, they're also promoting not to the same
old brands, but.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
It's still conversation.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Same in beauty right moving away from plastics, refillables, botanical
clean ingredients, those are the darlings right now. And yet food,
somehow again we've lost the plot.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Even though you make.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
More decisions about what you eat and drink, and what
goes in your body means more than what you put
on it, our food media does not write about it.
It's very hard to get mainstream media to write about
food agriculture, so much much so that I get so
for the book tour, we're partnering with Citizens of Humanity,
which are really pioneering in their regenerative cotton space and
(18:09):
new textiles and dyes and really changing their whole supply chain.
And we were sort of laughing most it's really not funny.
Most people think that food and clothing farms are separate,
you know, And yeah, I know, but it's funny because
obviously they're not right. The whole point of regenerative agriculture
(18:30):
so that they all comingle and grow together. A farmer's
not saying, oh, this plot of land is for jeans
and this one for you know, apricots for the grocery store.
It's like, it's really just this amazing, rich layered ecosystem.
It's not meant to be sort of siphoned in that way.
And again, that's our industrial complex that like we need
(18:53):
to break out of.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
And how would one person like, Okay, they're listening to
you and they're like, this makes so much sense and
meaning did our you know this? I want to help
in some way and I want to be part of it.
For someone who is hearing about this for the first time,
what would be the first steps to feel like you
can impact? Because I think it feels so far removed
sometimes and you're like, oh what I do? Does it
(19:16):
really matter? And I feel like that's the feeling most
people get about things like this, that it feels so
large and so big that what am I going to do?
So at home as a person, how can we contribute
to this in a positive way?
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Well, that's exactly why I wrote the book. The book
is really a guide and very beautiful, easy, hopefully personal
and fun and entertaining to help people see it's really
about one step and then taking another. Don't worry about
the big problem. I explain it and I lay it out.
But my goal is to do just that because I
(19:50):
think we all are aware of this looming, huge thing.
But if we don't start jumping in, even one foot
into the pool and start helping, won't be solvable.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
And we all do play a role.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
So a lot of the things I talk about and
I link it to carbon emissions, I want people to understand,
from soil to shelf, there's so many ways to contribute
and help and understanding what matters. So I'll give you
a great example. Right again, follow the money. I think
over the last ten fifteen years, we've been told that
transits everything, right, cars, planes, it's all about fossil fuels. Well,
(20:27):
think about that was the rise of electric cars in Tesla.
Elon Musk has a lot of money to pump into
that narrative when you actually look at the carbon life cycle.
Not to say it's not a contributor, but it's not
anywhere close to being the biggest lever. In fact, it
almost is the same effect if we all compost it. Yeah,
so let's take one step. What everyone can do compost.
(20:47):
There are countertop solutions. There are new trash pin solutions. Right,
you have loom loamy, which is on your one Yeah,
the size of a toaster oven. If you own a
toaster oven, you should own a loam.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Yes, just try it.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Try it once, that little bit, Just take that one
little step. It actually has a huge effect on carbon capture.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Mill is another one.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
It's basically I so that recently as well. It's not
countertop cool.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
It's a real refuse, you know, it's a real piece
of furniture. It's quite beautiful and simple. But they have
a whole pickup system. And none of these are punishingly expensive,
which I think is also the narrative.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
We've been told if you can get you can get
a compost done. Probably is the thing right now.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
So if you every dorm room has an air fryer,
they should have a compost system. You know, they're not
punishingly expensive. We've been told, ew, it's gross, it's smelly.
It's not. Yeah, you know, it's really about debunking those
and trying it and doing one thing right. No one's
saying in your dorm room to install.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
A worm farm. Yes, if you live on a plot.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Of land and you want to go down that route
you want to build your own garden, great, Like that's
not the beginner set.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
So the book you know.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
That that's a really simple one actually, Like you pop
on your dishwasher at the same time you pop on
your combosta. It's literally that easy. You cut up all
the veggies and things that have left over, you throw
it into the composta and it literally makes you soil.
Like it would just make you something you can put
into your garden or outside Caen.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
You bring it to your farmer's market or mill, you
ship you know they'll pick it up, so you don't
even have to worry about distribution. So I did this
video and it was funny. A friend of mine was
asked a very similar question. I was like, get a bin,
and she was like, you need to film this. IM like,
I'm not filming myself telling someone to get a bin.
That's the dumbest video I've ever heard, as she goes,
trust me, they people need that first step. So I
(22:41):
did this reel, literally held a bin, and I was like,
this is the one thing you can do.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Collect your food waste.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yes one looking at it, you will cook differently and
you will subconsciously see I promise you. Within a month,
you will see that that bin gets lower and lower
just because seeing it makes you face. And I don't
mean that of guilt. Like it is compostable, there's not
a problem, but when you see it then you're like
(23:07):
you kind of get competitive, like, oh, I'm gonna see
if I can.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Fill it half up next?
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Yeah, yeah, maybe a quarter can I put it into
my loamy every two weeks, not every day. So really,
I say to people, even before the loamy, get a bin,
start collecting it, put it on your countertop. Face it
every day. You will cook different you will purchase your
food differently, you will think about upcycling food differently. And
then step maybe one B is get yourself a compost system.
(23:34):
Talk to your local farmer's market. Most have drop off
and pick up. It really is that simple, and we
need to get out of this industrial complex of it's
not smelly and gross, it's not prohibitively expensive. It is
very accessible. And that's like one, you know, switch your
pasta for a regenerative brand tomorrow. Yeah, very simple. Every
(23:56):
household in America makes passed at least once a week.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Yes, definitely, swap your source.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
It's that simple. Swap your rice. There's a lot of
regenerative race on the market, and.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Its times like I feel like it does take a
bit more of you talking about this yesterday or another podcast
about when you start investing in your health. It takes education.
When you start looking after the planet or like being
more conscious of the planet, it starts. It requires a
little bit more effort at the beginning. Yeah, it may
take research, and it may take looking things up. Like
(24:26):
you just said past this, it's like, oh, someone might say, well,
I have no idea what regenerative past.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
It is when the book I give you three to four,
you easy to buy your book well, but for that reason,
it is about making it really easy. And look, I'm
a big do one thing for me. Impact change, life changes,
even goals. Right, we talk about manifesting. You can't manifest
a whole new world, but you can manifest one thing
(24:53):
that leads to another that leads to another.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
I feel the same with impact.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Make one decision, live with it for a little, let
it sort of get into your bones, and then do
the next. And it does really snowball I think. Right
when you get into wellness, one thing leads to another,
leads to another. But don't worry about don't worry about
the snowball effect. Just focus on one thing.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
And what do you feel like all the biggest misconceptions
people have about I think they're going to a grocery
store and they're picking things out the labels, the ingredients,
things like have you noticed people coming to be like, oh,
I'm eating really like well for the panet or I'm
doing buying really good things and you're like that's not
good at all. What would you say are the biggest
things that are kind of.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
You think lab created it gives me, you know, I
do sort of chuckle and I say to them, read
the ingredients.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
If you can't pronounce it, probably shouldn't be in your body.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Okay, that's great. You know.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
I actually am so impressed by young millennials and gen Z.
I see a lot of when I see UGC or
social posts, they are flipping over bags, they are reading
the ingredients, they are looking at everything in a way
that I'm obsessed with because I feel like that's new
people really looking at, you know, ingredients and going why
(26:06):
is palm oil and something that's supposed to be healthy?
So I think there's going to be a really big
shift because I think our generation is smart and really
on it and does do their research, and they share
it loud and proud, like I don't think my mom's
ever flipped over a container, Like it just wasn't the
way our parents were taught to do things. And you know,
(26:29):
now with social media, it's like everyone's an investigator, which
is kind of a good thing.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
You know.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
I think that I think, you know, not consuming sugars
and I think, you know, I really think it's ingredients.
I think it's thinking about the packaging, trying to cut
down your plastic intake.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
And again, I think.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
It's really about buying and cooking at home your food
in a way that you're really using it. I mean,
food waste is a big driver too, and it's very
tied again to this like how you cook, how you
buy things, but also this sort of food waste.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Capture and composting. Have you always feed onto each other?
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
I guess a lot of people give you the I'm
sure you get it too, where it's like I'm so healthy, right,
I'm sugar and carb free and I'm doing all these things.
I'm like, you're eating literally only processed food.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yeah, bas all day.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Yeah, I like, go to Italy, you could have passed
it every day and live healthier. It's not really about
the carbs. It's about the quality of ingredients.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yeah, so true. I have always in mind, I mentioned
this at the beginning, but you have basically a farm
at home, and I think that's such a beautiful way
to also contribute to I mean, one of the major
ways I imagine to contribute. What would you like, how
did you get into growing things at home? Has it
been something you've always done living in La You said
it's been quite easy to get things from farmers' markets.
(27:48):
But one ways to recommend for people to start growing
things at home, the easiest things to grow at home.
And two, I would love to hear about your farm
a little bit more so we can all have a goal.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Well, we lived in New York for fifteen years, on
the East coast for almost twenty I did always grow
things at home. There's a lot of indoor systems. There's
I always tell people you want to start really small
and easy. Windowsill herbs, every apartment, every dorm room. We
can all do that, right, I mean, I've always wanted
(28:21):
a farm. I love animals, I love growing things. I
love the slowness of the process. But I would say
sort of easy. Quick tip is windowsill herbs again, similarly
figuring out ways to use it, making you know, herb oil,
making tea infusions, making your own tea, drying your herbs,
(28:41):
making spices, giving them to friends, Like there's nothing better
than going over to a friend's house, favorite gift and
bringing a bunch of herbs. Right, it's very simple. It
will live, you know, certain herbs will live in so
many environments. Again, windowsill herbs very simple. Again, Now I
think the technology has changed. There's a lot of indoor
systems that are really interesting if you really want to
(29:03):
go that next step. For people have backyards or even
you know in New York, like a fire escape. I
always say, go to home depot, Like they have these
really simple raised beds. They're all different sizes. You could
even do something small and grow one thing. It's really
just starting and experimenting and there is no failing because
you're learning from it. I think people get nervous, like, well,
(29:25):
what if it doesn't grow. It's like, well, now you're
going to learn, and you're going to know the next time.
And not everything works. I mean, we have a running
joke for three seasons. I love Wiser Farms. They make
the best melons. It's funny. The New York Times just
wrote this huge article about them, like they finally caught
up twenty years later. They're just so special and so
we've always wanted to grow a really special kind of melon,
(29:47):
and every season we get just one and she's always
really small, and you know, I'm really trying to like
figure out why I can't get it to grow. You know,
squash will get twenty and they get planted right next
to each other, and I'm like, what's up with the candalope?
You know, the vines just don't want to give me
more than one. But it's kind of fun. It's a conversation.
(30:08):
It's a dialogue with the earth. It's not going to
be a one way street. It's not going to be perfect.
That's the beauty of it. So here we have chickens.
We have a pretty big garden, and even I mean
to me, it's small. I would like I would live
on a massive farm.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
I want.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
The Ecology Center down in near Laguna is an amazing place.
If you're in southern California, you should absolutely visit. It's
a twenty acre regenerative farm.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Wow. I have a cafe, a.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Farm shop, a school. I wish we lived closer. I
would send my kids to school there. I would live on,
you know, a full farm, which might happen at some point.
But even our garden, which isn't that huge, it's so
much food.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
You literally don't know what to do.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
What are you growing right now?
Speaker 2 (30:56):
We're right at the end of sungle tomato season, which
is justice.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
You post that delicious.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
They're amazing graffiti eggplant which I brought you some yes,
that's gorgeous. Love those I grow Jimmy and Nardello peppers,
which are every chef's like very chefy thing. But every
year we try new things, you know, we do some
of the classics, We try new things. My kids get
to pick something that we grow every season.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
And it's because I think with all the different seeds
and stuff that you realize how varied. It's not just
like one tomato. There's like hundreds of varieties and for
each thing, and I think it ends up being so
it makes food and cooking so much more exciting, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
And that's regenerative thinking.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Yeah, we don't have to have this horrible, you know
tomato that has no flavor, and all of them look perfect.
There's actually eighty varietals, you know. Y seed heritage is
a big part of what I talked about in the book.
It's all about trying a new ingredient. I tell people
another one thing you can do at home that's super simple,
(31:55):
that is nothing to do with right new systems, new
ways of you know, growing your food. Buy something new
every month, Buy an ingredient that you have never tried, like.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Great field gut. Okay, totally diversity and what you eat
is like great for farming, but also so good for
you your gut, Like you need diversity in your gut microbiome,
and the only way you can get that is by
trying different things regularly, not buying the same things every
single week.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
So my kids do our grocery shopping with us.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
That is so nice.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
I think it's such a big way to get kids
to eat things. Yeah, and also it's just we are
very communal, like everyone trips in with everything, but even
that is so important. They really appreciate it. When we
go to the farmer's market, each one buys something new,
and I say to them, have to try a new
vegetable every two weeks.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
We have to try a new fruit.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
We're going to talk about where it's from, how it's grown,
what kind of vitamins are in it, and then what
that does for your body. So explaining certain things right,
it's for bone density, it's for eye clarity, it's for
your brain. I think people also underestimate how much that
can affect children too.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
My mum has always grown things in her garden, whether
it's herbs or curry leaves. She tried trying to indoor
grow curry leaves in the UK because it's so difficult.
I have curry. I have a curry leave fore here.
I'm going to give you some. It's huge. I always
wanted to and I got this hydroponics system when I
(33:24):
had a really small place here and I was so
shocked at how much could grow in it. And then
when I got to this house, I was like, oh,
I want a really big thing, and I want to
try and make it really huge. And so year went by,
another year went by, and I was trying to make
it this like big thing, and it was just what
you said. I was like, okay, I just need to start.
So I started with herbs because I use herbs so much,
so parsley, cilandra, like different types of herbs that I
(33:47):
have out there, curry leaf plant. I haven't got to
vegies yet, but even just that going out and being
able to grab my fresh herbs to put on top,
it changes the way that I experienced the food that
I'm eating. And so I agree, I think it just
starts one part. Even if it's one part of something,
it will make you want to grow more and make
you want to like it's just so much more exciting
(34:08):
that way.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
And you grow so much you share it, and then
that pollinates someone else to be like, oh, it was
really fun to get curry leaves, you know, when you
came over for dinner. Maybe I should grow something. It
does actually pollinate people thinking about it when you even
do something like bringing it over to their house.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
And you mentioned your children. You have three children? Don't
you four? For now? Oh my gosh, you have four children? Incredible?
And how has it been sharing your world with that? Yes,
I actually know. I want to talk. I want to
switch gears and talk about motherhood because four children is
incredible while you've been doing all of these things in
the world, and share your experiences, your lessons that you've
(34:47):
learned through motherhood and how it's been for you. Oh gosh,
how old is your new How old is your new newborn?
Like you're hearing it's you've been Your baby was bor
seven weeks ago? What do you make one?
Speaker 2 (35:01):
You look lovey, being sweet? I breast I pumped right before,
right before coming in here. I was like just five
minutes to like, you know, get it all out.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
With each pregnancy completely different, Like how how was the
process of each.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
Every single one? You know?
Speaker 2 (35:15):
I was not gifted with great fertility. It was very,
very hard each one. I always say to my husband,
I feel like I jug into the universe with every
bit of my being and every bit of my for
each one. Each one is a whole planet unto themselves.
They are totally different and unique, every conception, delivery, how
(35:40):
postpartum was, how my experience was. And I had my
kids very close together. So my oldest is just about
to turn.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
Five a couple of years. It's been a very intense
couple of years.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
No twins, I wish, but I think look for me,
motherhood was like the greatest clarifier. I think it made
me a better entrepreneur. You know, I wrote the cookbook
and produced the cookbook while I was trying desperately to
get pregnant with my fourth. I almost feel like they
I literally did our The IVF implant that finally worked
(36:12):
was the morning after we wrapped the cookbook photo shoot,
like this crazy four day marathon. We wrapped at like
midnight at seven am. I was down in Elsa Gundo
with you know, my legs up in the straps and
I was just like this, you know, and ever on
the shoot was like you're crazy.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
I was like, well, you know, it's all timed. You
don't get to pick it.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
They're like, your go date is tomorrow and you're like,
could it be the next day?
Speaker 3 (36:32):
And they're like no.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
You know people think I think people don't understand, just
like it's so yeah, it's been honestly a very intense,
intense journey with a lot of joy, a lot of heartbreak,
a lot of twists and turns.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
She do use IVF full most. For how many of
your children did you use IVF?
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Four two one was a very gifted accident, if you will,
I would say he was like fast and fast out.
And then my first I actually found out I was
pregnant in the middle of IVF after many, many, many
months of unsuccessful trying.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
So yeah, it's kind of these that I have done
IVF and it's been really difficult. I have someone in
my life you don't want to mention, but going through
at the moment for the first time, and it's really taken.
You know, it takes a toll on your emotions, on
your strength, on so many things. And you know, when
you have that desperate desire to be a mother, I
think you can only relate to it when you're in
(37:32):
that space, and I feel like every time I speak
to her, she's so positive, but at the same time
will be like crying with desperation when I'm when I'm
you know, when I'm having conversations with her. And so
how was that process for you? Do you have any
words of like encouragement for people going through because I
know more people that have done IVF than not lately,
(37:52):
and it's something which can be really difficult to decide
on and also go through.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Yeah, I mean, look, I want to hold her, give
her my number.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
I like love.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Talking to women about it because I do think we
keep it very hush hush still. I mean, I feel
like IVF, fertility and miscarriages are like it still feels
like the nineteen fifties, Like we're not supposed to say it.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
I mean, even people.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
People feel so it's so hard for people to even
speak about it.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
I've had people say, I mean, I can't believe you
talk about you know, some of your kids are IVF,
and I'm like, I'm out here, you know, sharing as
much as I can and trying to normalize it because
it is brutally hard. Look, you're hopped up on hormones.
You're literally biologically not yourself. You're taking I mean every day.
I took three shots for almost a year. I mean
(38:41):
it's brutal or like a science experiment. You don't feel human,
and no one can understand in that moment. You know,
I'd even say to my husband, I'm like, you know,
you're supportive, but like, you really don't know what it's
like to take this any shots.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
I't empathize, you know, you don't really and literally mentally
you're not yourself.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
You're on all these hormones. It's a huge part of
your day. You're also getting on top of that, you
getr blood drawn every other day, You're getting a sonogram
every other day. I mean literally, people are invading your
body twenty four seven. You know, one of the things
I say to people is one, it's not for the
faint of heart, and you kind of treat it like,
you know, I'm an entrepreneur, I run a startup.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
It's like a startup. You know the world's going like this,
and you.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Have to mentally figure out how to even it out,
kind of against all odds and maybe a level of psychosis.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
I don't know, just to be like I.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Don't feel it and I want, you know, I tell people,
buckle up, get into it, like you do when you
do a job. You have to put that sort of
blinder intensity on and kind of power through because it's
brutal every time you find out you're not pregnant. I mean,
I share this story a lot. One of the times
when the IVF didn't work, I started bleeding the morning
(39:55):
I was hosting a big event for Coterie. It was
a room filled with new moms and.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
Pres ignant women.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
I like, literally wanted to die. And I had so
many people say, well, I can't believe you went through it.
I'm like, it's a job, Like I don't know what
am I supposed to do. Thirty people are coming to
this thing. I'm gonna cry while uncovered in blood, Like
I don't know. I mean, I literally was cooking something else.
I was wearing a white jumpsuit like an idiot. My
son was with me. I just was hopeful maybe again,
(40:24):
you know, crazily optimistic. Started bleeding in the middle of
the event. I had to go to the person's bathroom
put a sweatshirt around my waist like no one ever knew.
I mean, there were multiple of those things where you're
just like I would like to sit in my bed
and cry and not leave and not be with the world.
But that's not the right way to move forward. And
(40:45):
I don't have the luxury of that.
Speaker 3 (40:47):
Also.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
But I think amidst all that, I say to women,
you have to really put yourself care first about everything.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
I mean, any.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Practices that really helped you while you were going through
any of this that have stuck with you, oh you
feel have really helped you?
Speaker 3 (41:01):
Throw it one.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
I included my kids, and a lot of people were
very surprised by that I brought them to appointments, even
though it was very friend upon. They're like, it's triggering
for other women. And I was like, well, one, I
don't have childcare, but two, I didn't want it to
be this thing. I felt that it would be too
emotionally brutal to hide it from them, and like kids
pick up your energy. Anyway, they gave me shots. They
(41:26):
would hold my hand, they knew, and I would say,
we're trying, we're trying to bring this baby to the world,
you know, with each one that was IVF, even when
my son was very young, you know. So one, I
do think not Hiding it from people, I think is
a really big one. People think they're not ready to
face it, but I actually think it's too high of
an emotional burden For me. It was so one I think,
(41:49):
don't hide it.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Who see is so important. I think every time I'm
going through something difficult, whether it's this or anything else,
you always end up feeling like the first instinct I
feel is to hie, thenate and hide. And I remember
my friend went through losing her mum and she'd lost
her dad years before. I asked her because I saw
her straight after and she was in like really high
(42:11):
spirits and I was like, what did you do to
like allow yourself to speak in the way you're speaking,
to be back at work so fast? Like what did
you do? And she said that the difference between when
her mom passed away and when her dad passed away
this time, sorry, when her dad passed away earlier and
when her mom passed away this time is she allowed
people in. And I was like, that is such good.
(42:34):
It was such great advice for any difficulty that you're
going through, Like, don't harden into a shell, be soft
and absorb people's love, absorb people's help. Because I think,
you know, along with along with shutting ourselves off, we're
used to shutting our homes off now and like we're
used to doing so many things where we're blocking everything
out because we feel overexposed. I think like social media
(42:56):
does that to you. You kind of end up on a
shell because a lot more is seen about you than
whereas I remember when my grandma would talk about when
she grew up, or even my mom. It was like
my grandma would have people coming through the door that
she didn't know for dinner. She would know she had
to make enough food for so much of the village
just because you don't know who's coming by. And I'm
like that the open heart, the open space, and if
(43:17):
you can do that with your own self, it really
helps with healing so much more than you think.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
I agree. I think it's just a lot to bear.
And I always say to people too.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
I mean I had my husband at every single appointment,
he was there for every single shot.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
I was like, I'm not doing this alone.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
And you you know, people I have some friends who've
gone through IVF and said, well, but what can they do?
Like they're not doing anything at at the appointment, I said, yeah,
but you're taking an hour out of your day to
go do that, someone should be there with you. I mean,
even as you have a baby. That inclusion I think
is important. I think second is you know, I believe
(43:56):
in body work. I think a lot of it too,
is like you don't feel like yourself and your own
skin and your own body. I wish we lived in
a country where things like acupuncture and chiropractor and body
work isn't seen as a luxury. I wish it was
covered by insurance, Like if you're lucky enough to have
IVF covered by insurance, A lot of this sort of
you know, to me, it's really like health maintenance should
(44:19):
be part of it because it's very hard to go
through without any form of that.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
So even if it's just a holistic practices that you
found a lot of them.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
I was like, I mean again, I went through a lot,
and I just decided like, Okay, this is going to
be a very road I am giving. And I just
also decided I'm not going to have guilt associated with it.
If I have to give up other things, great, that's
where my budget's going. And even as a family, it's
about me right now. And I didn't feel shame in
(44:51):
saying that, and I said it to my whole family,
like all of this is about bringing this baby to
this world. Right now, I am the centerpiece of that.
I'm okay with that, and I need to give myself grace.
I need to take care of myself. And these things
are not luxuries, are frivolous. They're really therapeutic, like I
(45:12):
really saw it as part of it. And look, therapy,
whether that's a life coach, a therapist, whatever works for you,
having someone who's not an intimate that you can really
work all this out.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
It is.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
It's very psychologically difficult and brutally painful. And again and
that's when it I can say that as someone where
it eventually worked. Yes, sometimes it doesn't, and that's a
whole other, you know, bucket of grief.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
So thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
I wish more people talked about it. I really do,
and I'm in your camp of I know so many
people who struggle to conceive and they don't talk about
you know, we just don't talk about it.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
Thank you so much for this. It has been such
a beautiful conversation. I wanted to just talk for hours
now to give such a calming voice. You need a podcast.
Speaker 3 (46:04):
Oh my gosh, yeah, you really do.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
One of those people. Here's their recorded voice and it's
like correct and.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
You know that's everyone. But I'm telling you your voice
is great to listen to. Thank you so much. I
want everyone to go out there. Wait, your book is
out when October tenth, October ten, chtober ten.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
Whether you listen to this theah for pre order, you know.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
Yeah, October tenth, Grab this book. It's gonna not just
give back to you, but to your family, to the
environment around you. And I think what great investment to
make in yourself and the world around you. So thank
you so much for creating that Westbourne. Oh my gosh.
Let me just tell you the other oils look gorgeous
and I cannot wait to taste them. And I'm so
(46:45):
excited to see what else you do in the world.
It's gonna be magical. Well, we have a lot we
got to collaborate on.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
And again, you have a very beautiful and very necessary
voice in this and we need this ground swell so
that it is, you know, the new normal.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
I know you're going to teach me how to make
my phone. Yes, yes, thank you. Thanks so much m
hm
I'm rather Dablukiah, and on my podcast A Really Good Cry,
we embrace the messy and the beautiful, providing a space
for raw, unfiltered conversations that celebrate vulnerability and allow you
to tune in to learn, connect and find comfort together. Tilla,
thank you so much for coming onto this podcast. It
means so much to me. We met a couple of
(00:20):
months ago, I think, and maybe even wait, maybe even
like a year ago. We met at an event we
did and yes, shout out to Rothi's and I immediately
when I met you, you had such a calm nature
about you. I didn't even know what you did, I
didn't know anything about you, but I felt like nature
lived in you and that I could feel your earthly
presence in just the way that you spoke. And I
(00:42):
really appreciated that about you. I just want to introduce
you quickly to the audience before I keep go keep
like loving on you. Kevilla Marcus is an incredible chef,
had an incredible restaurant in New York that I want
to learn so much more about your beautiful content creator,
and I just think that what you share with the
world is so needed right now and I'm so excited
(01:02):
for everybody to hear your wisdom and everything that comes
from you.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Well, it's a mutual fan club because I'm a big
fan of yours from Afar for a long time and
all the same. I just we need more powerful voices
and sort of the food movement and aligning with wellness,
and I think you do so in such a loving,
thoughtful but also.
Speaker 3 (01:21):
Such an approachable way.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:23):
We all want to live in your world, that is
for sure. So get to visit for the day.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yes, I need to come to your house. Oh my gosh,
your farm is my dream farm. I need that.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
Well, I'll have you come over and then you can,
you know, bring it home.
Speaker 1 (01:34):
Yeah. Perfect. So you have created a book called My
Regenerative Kitchen, and when I first read that one, it
looks gorgeous. The pictures are beautiful, the recipes look incredible.
But my first question is I feel like most people
don't know what regenerative kitchen means or what reg regenerative
farming is. So would you mind explaining that and what
(01:55):
brought you to this?
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Well, I mean on our on our Instagram for west
Porn and myself, it's actually a pinned post for that
reason because we get that question a lot, and it's
interesting to me because I don't think the average person
could probably tell you what organic means either, but they
know it's sort of good for you, right. It lives
in this category of better than the way it used
to be. And for me, the best way to think
(02:19):
of regenerative is that next wave beyond organic, So it's
really about building an ecosystem that is natural, that has
resilience for climate change and pulls carbon into the soil.
What that means is there's a number of different practices.
Farms will use them in varying degrees, and I think
that's also why people sometimes have a hard time pinning
(02:41):
the definition, because it's not one size fits one. So
organic is no use of chemicals or pesticides. That is
one of the practices is that these farms are organic.
Two is a lot of focus on biodiversity, so it's
not monocrop. It's you know, looking at a farm and
sying all different kinds of crops that feed into each
(03:02):
other and also help the use of no pesticides helps
with water conservation because they feed and build on each
other in really unique ways, which is how nature intended
right before we humans came and kind of messed it
all up. In some instances, it's planned grazing and then
the use of cover crops, so things like buckwheat, oats.
(03:23):
It's a lot of really amazing crops that are both
delicious and you know, we eat, but also make sure
that the land is not fallow. So it's not about
pumping as much corn as you can on one plot
of land and then letting it sit, you know, for months,
if not years on end. And then lastly, along with
the water, conservation is also a focus on so we
(03:47):
touch biodiversity, focus on.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
Carbon.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
So the way that I describe it is right, if
you were to go to any roadside in a major city,
you grab the earth beneath a tree, it's going to
look chalky, it's going to have a light color, very dry.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
It looks like dirt. Right. It doesn't look like soil.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
When you plant a garden or you go to a
home depot, you get really rich soil. It's dark black,
it's moist, it's wet, it sticks in your hand, it
has organisms inside. It's not one color. That is the
difference between traditional industrial monocrop farming the dirt. It's stripping
(04:30):
everything from the land where it no longer is soil.
And when it pulls down carbon from the atmosphere into
the soil, and you have this really rich ecosystem, you're
going to get that really like delicious soil that feels
like the earth, that feels like what in our minds
we hear of the earth. So that, in a nutshell,
(04:51):
is what regenerative farming can and is doing amazing.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
And how did you begin your journey into learning about this?
And you know, take me back to your teen years
or even your childhood, and I would love to hear
how you became who you are now and how you
got into food and consciously learning and living with the planet. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
So I'm born and raised in Los Angeles, Okay, one
of the rare second generation locals. My mom is also
born and raised here. Her family kind of migrated from
the East Coast and the Midwest. She was the firstborn here,
So I mean, really being from the heart of Los Angeles, right,
We shopped at farmers' markets, we went to our farms,
we met our farmers. My next door neighbor was missus
(05:37):
Gooch growing up, and she was the predecessor to Whole Foods.
Speaker 3 (05:40):
They bought her stores.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
When they came here, and so you know, my next
door neighbors, she would test all the new products on us,
and you know, we grew up with I always say
I had the untradeable lunch. Like you know, in the
eighties and nineties, it was not cool to have what
is now cool, right, the natural food. We had no sugar.
You know, my mom was very healthy bunches. We ate
very plant forward. We didn't call it, you know, no
(06:04):
one called it that it was. But you know, as
a kid in middle school, wasn't that fun to have
like no one want anything ye lunch?
Speaker 1 (06:11):
You know?
Speaker 3 (06:12):
And I was like, why marios exactly?
Speaker 2 (06:14):
And my mom's like, later you'll thank me, and she's right, thanks, mom.
You know, just we thought about recycling and composting. My
elementary school had all of that infrastructure. And then of course,
you know, I go to college in Philadelphia and it's
like you could not get a bigger one to eighty
than you know, hippie Los Angeles and.
Speaker 3 (06:33):
Like West Philadelphia.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
You know, start contrast, and so I think for me food,
you know, my family's not that into food.
Speaker 3 (06:41):
They're not that into restaurants.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
I do think it's just very much the seedling within me,
and I just always saw it as the most universal
language we have. It is the best way to express
your love. It is the thing that we all understand,
and to me, it was also the best way that.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
Cultures to each other.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Right, Like soup, every culture has a shared soup language,
even though we call it different things, it might have
a slightly different spice. You kind of trace the origins
around human patterns on this planet over time. I think
that history, I think that richness of culture and that
universal language. For me, it just spoke to me when
(07:22):
I was young. It's the best way I can show
someone how I feel. I'm not really I am an extrovert,
but I'm not really good with words. I'm much better
at showing. And I think for me, that's just it
always spoke to me. And then I started getting really
into restaurants because I always felt like they were the
cultural change makers. Right, what you learn about food? I mean,
(07:46):
I do my own research and I'm very into farming,
but most people learn about food through restaurants.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:52):
You learn about a new ingredient, a new technique. Right,
Even like this whole movement towards plant based eating has
been so sparked by cookbook authors like yourself, people on
TV cooking and restaurants, and so I think I just
saw that as a really big centerpiece to be change agents.
Speaker 1 (08:11):
And did you move to New York when you obviously
in New York when you started your restaurant.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
What was your restaurant called Westbourne?
Speaker 1 (08:17):
West? Oh? Yeah, I forgot to mention at the beginning.
You have this incredible gorgeous company called Westbourne out of
oils both Stamachs. What else do you have that?
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Like you, I row a lot of boats.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Our entire platform is really about creating food based on
the biodiversity of regenerative farms. We are plastic free, carbon
neutral supply chain, and the idea is really how do
we help farmers monetize all this gorgeous, you know, produce
that they're growing on these farms. If it's not going
to be monocrop, we have to be a lot more
creative in how we're creating products because they're going to
(08:49):
have this richness of ingredients on the land that now.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
We have to think about products different.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
Right.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
I can't go and say I want you know, only
oats for all time. We have to be much more
nimble and flexible on how we think about food.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
The reason that farmers doing monocrop is that because it's
just the cheaper option. Like what is you know, what
stops someone from or what stops the farm? Obviously that's
what you're promoting saying we need more diversity. What is
the main reason that farms do only do specific crops
and don't do what you're recommending.
Speaker 2 (09:22):
So one of the you know, big taglines in our
company is we're so progressive that we're going back in time.
And it all really stems from the Industrial Revolution. It's
post war. This whole country shifted so many things with
this sort of massive historical fracture. It became about growing
food fast, cheap, easy, lot of tax incentives, a lot
(09:45):
of subsidies. It was really government created to be this
sort of engine, and then somehow.
Speaker 3 (09:51):
We lost the plot.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
It's like, okay, that was fine in that moment, but
as we've gone through each of these decades, it's not
necessary anymore. People forget. I always say, remember plastic is
cheap because we subsidize it. Plastic is not inherently cheap. Wow,
we have funded it if we decided as a country
we want to shift tax incentives and our financial system
(10:13):
towards renewables, towards compostables, towards you know, there's a lot
of packaging related to algae, so all this incredible material
science now breaking through. They're more expensive, not because they're
more expensive.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Because there's no demand for it, or like they're not
getting incentivized.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
If the government said tomorrow we're done with the plastic industry,
We're going to put all of that into algae packaging.
Speaker 3 (10:38):
Now, algae packaging would be cheap. We forget.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
So I always tell people follow the money and that
will explain everything in the food system.
Speaker 3 (10:45):
And I say that.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
As a real capitalist but also a little bit dismayed.
Speaker 3 (10:49):
But that's what it comes down to.
Speaker 2 (10:50):
I mean, we just have to look back and say
nature had a really different mandate in ethos, We lived
with nature very differently before the Industrial Revolution, and all
the reasons that we switch behaviors, that imperative doesn't exist anymore,
so we need to sort of close that chapter and
go back in time. That to me, is what being
(11:12):
progressive is really about.
Speaker 1 (11:13):
In this way. I completely agree with you. I was
you know, I always think that disconnect of I think
ill health comes from a disconnect not just from yourself,
but from your disconnect from nature. And as soon as
you're not able to connect with the environment around you,
and it doesn't just mean being in the environment, it
means how can I contribute to the environment, How can
I have an exchange with this environment? Because earth is alive,
(11:36):
the soil is alive, like everything around us, the environment
is breathing, and so to not be able to be
so disconnected that you're not even conscious of how you're
harming the environment around you, how it is existing around you,
like we don't I personally, even though I have such
a deep connection to food. When I was you know,
reading your book and when I've been watching what you've
(11:57):
been doing, I feel like I have so much that
I need to learn about growing my food, about where
my food is coming from, about all those things. Because
growing up in London, we didn't really do farmer's markets,
Like it wasn't a thing. You go to the store
and you buy your food. Whereas here coming to farmers' markets,
talking to the farmers, hearing like what they're growing, and
they're like, oh, this week I've got this, and I'm like,
(12:18):
oh wow, there's so many different things that you can
grow in just one place. And I think that disconnection
is not only obviously harming the environment, it's really what
is causing lack of health in people's bodies.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
So sure, what's better for the earth is always better
for our health. And again you follow the money, massive
amounts of capital, venture capital, public capital has been going
into quote unquote climate solutions in food. Think about everything
that we've really been focusing on in media and in
the capital markets, everything's been Billions have been going into
(12:53):
lab created food. Yes, so it's the beginning of time.
Lab created food has never solved any problems. That is
not good for our health. It has never been cheaper, right,
the whole promise was, oh, we'll feed everyone, no one
will ever go hungry.
Speaker 3 (13:06):
It's like, well, it's.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Like dead matter from the moment it is made in
a lab, like it's not.
Speaker 3 (13:10):
And labs are expensive.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Science is expensive. Since when did we think that was
going to be cheaper than agriculture. I think, you know, again,
we sort of always say the solution lies with the land,
not in a lab. We forget, fifty percent of American
land is still farmland today.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
If we move food production off that land, we have
a bigger carbon problem. Think about that.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Regenerative agriculture is the only system that can pull down
carbon in time to solve this climate crisis. The fact
that not every dollar, every article, every show, every piece
of attention is not going into that is mind boggling.
And all these other things are just distractions. And to
your point, they're also ruining human health. We know from generations,
we know from history anything that's lab created has health consequences.
(13:57):
And what ends up feeding that soil brings forward way
higher nutrient dense food, and that's facts. You know. It's like,
let's look at the facts. It's not like believe for
you know, people always say I'm woo woo. I'm like,
it's will but it's also.
Speaker 1 (14:13):
Yeah, exactly, And I don't want to go into like,
you know, theories or anything, but is the main reason
for why, you know, the focus isn't on regenerative living
purely money related in terms of like why if that
feels like the obvious answer, because that's what's going through
my head. I'm like, everything will say it makes so
(14:34):
much sense, so like why would that not be happening, Like,
why would the money if if that's going to be
better for people, if that's going to be better for
the environment, is it a less is it an option
that is going to create less money?
Speaker 2 (14:48):
I think, you know my one person's opinion. When you
sort of read the tea leaves and you think about
again the incentives and you sort of follow the money,
A lot of it comes down to IP. So intellectual
property in this country really doesn't include food. So like
recipes are not protectable? Will so I always say to
someone what's the difference between putting together a recipe and
(15:09):
putting together an algorithm? You're using zeros in ones those
aren't ownable, but your combination of zeros and ones is.
How is a recipe not protectable? How is food production
not protectable? There's so many areas that are Again, our
legal system doesn't protect and a lot of investors want
things that they feel are protectable. They feel that there's
(15:31):
a moat, they feel that they feel that that makes
that food company right that has a patent, Oh, well,
that's going to make them not have competition. And I
always say it to investors, Okay, but if it's not
a viable business who cares that they have patents. They
can have twenty patents. If it's not food people want
to eat. If it's not food, then in the long term,
is going to be sustainable. If it's not delicious, great,
(15:51):
you're going to have a patent on the wall, right,
you know. And we've seen that just because money is
going in doesn't mean they're making money out of it.
And a lot of these you know, this trend in
food over the last ten twenty years has proven to
be a bubble. It's not actually money's going in, but
money's not coming out per se, and.
Speaker 1 (16:09):
It fades, like the trends that have come even with
you know, plant based foods and the things which are
alternatives and whatever. It's like within a short period of time,
you see people are just off it and like it's
not something that feels sustainable or by sustainable silent. Yes,
it just.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Does the best news and that people are like, eh,
I actually don't want that to be my food.
Speaker 1 (16:32):
Yeah, it's so true.
Speaker 2 (16:34):
But then you look at a company like Patagonia, right,
they were one of the first to pioneer organic cotton,
which now is table stakes. You know, would they necessarily
in today's world be seen as you know, a venture
capital darling. No, but look what they've been able to create.
Look at what they've been able to do over a
very long period of time. Doing it right in the
long run, I think pays. The problem is we get
(16:57):
very distracted and a lot of you know, investors get
very distracted.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
I think was short term.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Trends, and then media feeds that. Right you look at
the headlines business of fashion. By contrast, fashion and beauty
are way ahead of food. Business of fashion every week
write something on regenerative textiles. They promote heavily sustainable businesses.
They're very loud about it, and you're seeing even articles
around it around fashion week every season. They're highlighting new textiles,
(17:27):
new innovations. Yes, they're also promoting not to the same
old brands, but.
Speaker 3 (17:30):
It's still conversation.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
Same in beauty right moving away from plastics, refillables, botanical
clean ingredients, those are the darlings right now. And yet food,
somehow again we've lost the plot.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Even though you make.
Speaker 2 (17:46):
More decisions about what you eat and drink, and what
goes in your body means more than what you put
on it, our food media does not write about it.
It's very hard to get mainstream media to write about
food agriculture, so much much so that I get so
for the book tour, we're partnering with Citizens of Humanity,
which are really pioneering in their regenerative cotton space and
(18:09):
new textiles and dyes and really changing their whole supply chain.
And we were sort of laughing most it's really not funny.
Most people think that food and clothing farms are separate,
you know, And yeah, I know, but it's funny because
obviously they're not right. The whole point of regenerative agriculture
(18:30):
so that they all comingle and grow together. A farmer's
not saying, oh, this plot of land is for jeans
and this one for you know, apricots for the grocery store.
It's like, it's really just this amazing, rich layered ecosystem.
It's not meant to be sort of siphoned in that way.
And again, that's our industrial complex that like we need
(18:53):
to break out of.
Speaker 1 (18:54):
And how would one person like, Okay, they're listening to
you and they're like, this makes so much sense and
meaning did our you know this? I want to help
in some way and I want to be part of it.
For someone who is hearing about this for the first time,
what would be the first steps to feel like you
can impact? Because I think it feels so far removed
sometimes and you're like, oh what I do? Does it
(19:16):
really matter? And I feel like that's the feeling most
people get about things like this, that it feels so
large and so big that what am I going to do?
So at home as a person, how can we contribute
to this in a positive way?
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Well, that's exactly why I wrote the book. The book
is really a guide and very beautiful, easy, hopefully personal
and fun and entertaining to help people see it's really
about one step and then taking another. Don't worry about
the big problem. I explain it and I lay it out.
But my goal is to do just that because I
(19:50):
think we all are aware of this looming, huge thing.
But if we don't start jumping in, even one foot
into the pool and start helping, won't be solvable.
Speaker 3 (20:01):
And we all do play a role.
Speaker 2 (20:02):
So a lot of the things I talk about and
I link it to carbon emissions, I want people to understand,
from soil to shelf, there's so many ways to contribute
and help and understanding what matters. So I'll give you
a great example. Right again, follow the money. I think
over the last ten fifteen years, we've been told that
transits everything, right, cars, planes, it's all about fossil fuels. Well,
(20:27):
think about that was the rise of electric cars in Tesla.
Elon Musk has a lot of money to pump into
that narrative when you actually look at the carbon life cycle.
Not to say it's not a contributor, but it's not
anywhere close to being the biggest lever. In fact, it
almost is the same effect if we all compost it. Yeah,
so let's take one step. What everyone can do compost.
(20:47):
There are countertop solutions. There are new trash pin solutions. Right,
you have loom loamy, which is on your one Yeah,
the size of a toaster oven. If you own a
toaster oven, you should own a loam.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
Yes, just try it.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Try it once, that little bit, Just take that one
little step. It actually has a huge effect on carbon capture.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Mill is another one.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
It's basically I so that recently as well. It's not
countertop cool.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
It's a real refuse, you know, it's a real piece
of furniture. It's quite beautiful and simple. But they have
a whole pickup system. And none of these are punishingly expensive,
which I think is also the narrative.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
We've been told if you can get you can get
a compost done. Probably is the thing right now.
Speaker 2 (21:31):
So if you every dorm room has an air fryer,
they should have a compost system. You know, they're not
punishingly expensive. We've been told, ew, it's gross, it's smelly.
It's not. Yeah, you know, it's really about debunking those
and trying it and doing one thing right. No one's
saying in your dorm room to install.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
A worm farm. Yes, if you live on a plot.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Of land and you want to go down that route
you want to build your own garden, great, Like that's
not the beginner set.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
So the book you know.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
That that's a really simple one actually, Like you pop
on your dishwasher at the same time you pop on
your combosta. It's literally that easy. You cut up all
the veggies and things that have left over, you throw
it into the composta and it literally makes you soil.
Like it would just make you something you can put
into your garden or outside Caen.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
You bring it to your farmer's market or mill, you
ship you know they'll pick it up, so you don't
even have to worry about distribution. So I did this
video and it was funny. A friend of mine was
asked a very similar question. I was like, get a bin,
and she was like, you need to film this. IM like,
I'm not filming myself telling someone to get a bin.
That's the dumbest video I've ever heard, as she goes,
trust me, they people need that first step. So I
(22:41):
did this reel, literally held a bin, and I was like,
this is the one thing you can do.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Collect your food waste.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Yes one looking at it, you will cook differently and
you will subconsciously see I promise you. Within a month,
you will see that that bin gets lower and lower
just because seeing it makes you face. And I don't
mean that of guilt. Like it is compostable, there's not
a problem, but when you see it then you're like
(23:07):
you kind of get competitive, like, oh, I'm gonna see
if I can.
Speaker 3 (23:10):
Fill it half up next?
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Yeah, yeah, maybe a quarter can I put it into
my loamy every two weeks, not every day. So really,
I say to people, even before the loamy, get a bin,
start collecting it, put it on your countertop. Face it
every day. You will cook different you will purchase your
food differently, you will think about upcycling food differently. And
then step maybe one B is get yourself a compost system.
(23:34):
Talk to your local farmer's market. Most have drop off
and pick up. It really is that simple, and we
need to get out of this industrial complex of it's
not smelly and gross, it's not prohibitively expensive. It is
very accessible. And that's like one, you know, switch your
pasta for a regenerative brand tomorrow. Yeah, very simple. Every
(23:56):
household in America makes passed at least once a week.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Yes, definitely, swap your source.
Speaker 3 (24:01):
It's that simple. Swap your rice. There's a lot of
regenerative race on the market, and.
Speaker 1 (24:05):
Its times like I feel like it does take a
bit more of you talking about this yesterday or another podcast
about when you start investing in your health. It takes education.
When you start looking after the planet or like being
more conscious of the planet, it starts. It requires a
little bit more effort at the beginning. Yeah, it may
take research, and it may take looking things up. Like
(24:26):
you just said past this, it's like, oh, someone might say, well,
I have no idea what regenerative past.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
It is when the book I give you three to four,
you easy to buy your book well, but for that reason,
it is about making it really easy. And look, I'm
a big do one thing for me. Impact change, life changes,
even goals. Right, we talk about manifesting. You can't manifest
a whole new world, but you can manifest one thing
(24:53):
that leads to another that leads to another.
Speaker 3 (24:55):
I feel the same with impact.
Speaker 2 (24:57):
Make one decision, live with it for a little, let
it sort of get into your bones, and then do
the next. And it does really snowball I think. Right
when you get into wellness, one thing leads to another,
leads to another. But don't worry about don't worry about
the snowball effect. Just focus on one thing.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
And what do you feel like all the biggest misconceptions
people have about I think they're going to a grocery
store and they're picking things out the labels, the ingredients,
things like have you noticed people coming to be like, oh,
I'm eating really like well for the panet or I'm
doing buying really good things and you're like that's not
good at all. What would you say are the biggest
things that are kind of.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
You think lab created it gives me, you know, I
do sort of chuckle and I say to them, read
the ingredients.
Speaker 3 (25:40):
If you can't pronounce it, probably shouldn't be in your body.
Speaker 1 (25:42):
Okay, that's great. You know.
Speaker 2 (25:44):
I actually am so impressed by young millennials and gen Z.
I see a lot of when I see UGC or
social posts, they are flipping over bags, they are reading
the ingredients, they are looking at everything in a way
that I'm obsessed with because I feel like that's new
people really looking at, you know, ingredients and going why
(26:06):
is palm oil and something that's supposed to be healthy?
So I think there's going to be a really big
shift because I think our generation is smart and really
on it and does do their research, and they share
it loud and proud, like I don't think my mom's
ever flipped over a container, Like it just wasn't the
way our parents were taught to do things. And you know,
(26:29):
now with social media, it's like everyone's an investigator, which
is kind of a good thing.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
You know.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
I think that I think, you know, not consuming sugars
and I think, you know, I really think it's ingredients.
I think it's thinking about the packaging, trying to cut
down your plastic intake.
Speaker 3 (26:46):
And again, I think.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
It's really about buying and cooking at home your food
in a way that you're really using it. I mean,
food waste is a big driver too, and it's very
tied again to this like how you cook, how you
buy things, but also this sort of food waste.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Capture and composting. Have you always feed onto each other?
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (27:06):
Absolutely.
Speaker 2 (27:08):
I guess a lot of people give you the I'm
sure you get it too, where it's like I'm so healthy, right,
I'm sugar and carb free and I'm doing all these things.
I'm like, you're eating literally only processed food.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
Yeah, bas all day.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
Yeah, I like, go to Italy, you could have passed
it every day and live healthier. It's not really about
the carbs. It's about the quality of ingredients.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Yeah, so true. I have always in mind, I mentioned
this at the beginning, but you have basically a farm
at home, and I think that's such a beautiful way
to also contribute to I mean, one of the major
ways I imagine to contribute. What would you like, how
did you get into growing things at home? Has it
been something you've always done living in La You said
it's been quite easy to get things from farmers' markets.
(27:48):
But one ways to recommend for people to start growing
things at home, the easiest things to grow at home.
And two, I would love to hear about your farm
a little bit more so we can all have a goal.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Well, we lived in New York for fifteen years, on
the East coast for almost twenty I did always grow
things at home. There's a lot of indoor systems. There's
I always tell people you want to start really small
and easy. Windowsill herbs, every apartment, every dorm room. We
can all do that, right, I mean, I've always wanted
(28:21):
a farm. I love animals, I love growing things. I
love the slowness of the process. But I would say
sort of easy. Quick tip is windowsill herbs again, similarly
figuring out ways to use it, making you know, herb oil,
making tea infusions, making your own tea, drying your herbs,
(28:41):
making spices, giving them to friends, Like there's nothing better
than going over to a friend's house, favorite gift and
bringing a bunch of herbs. Right, it's very simple. It
will live, you know, certain herbs will live in so
many environments. Again, windowsill herbs very simple. Again, Now I
think the technology has changed. There's a lot of indoor
systems that are really interesting if you really want to
(29:03):
go that next step. For people have backyards or even
you know in New York, like a fire escape. I
always say, go to home depot, Like they have these
really simple raised beds. They're all different sizes. You could
even do something small and grow one thing. It's really
just starting and experimenting and there is no failing because
you're learning from it. I think people get nervous, like, well,
(29:25):
what if it doesn't grow. It's like, well, now you're
going to learn, and you're going to know the next time.
And not everything works. I mean, we have a running
joke for three seasons. I love Wiser Farms. They make
the best melons. It's funny. The New York Times just
wrote this huge article about them, like they finally caught
up twenty years later. They're just so special and so
we've always wanted to grow a really special kind of melon,
(29:47):
and every season we get just one and she's always
really small, and you know, I'm really trying to like
figure out why I can't get it to grow. You know,
squash will get twenty and they get planted right next
to each other, and I'm like, what's up with the candalope?
You know, the vines just don't want to give me
more than one. But it's kind of fun. It's a conversation.
(30:08):
It's a dialogue with the earth. It's not going to
be a one way street. It's not going to be perfect.
That's the beauty of it. So here we have chickens.
We have a pretty big garden, and even I mean
to me, it's small. I would like I would live
on a massive farm.
Speaker 3 (30:26):
I want.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
The Ecology Center down in near Laguna is an amazing place.
If you're in southern California, you should absolutely visit. It's
a twenty acre regenerative farm.
Speaker 1 (30:37):
Wow. I have a cafe, a.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
Farm shop, a school. I wish we lived closer. I
would send my kids to school there. I would live on,
you know, a full farm, which might happen at some point.
But even our garden, which isn't that huge, it's so
much food.
Speaker 3 (30:52):
You literally don't know what to do.
Speaker 1 (30:54):
What are you growing right now?
Speaker 2 (30:56):
We're right at the end of sungle tomato season, which
is justice.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
You post that delicious.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
They're amazing graffiti eggplant which I brought you some yes,
that's gorgeous. Love those I grow Jimmy and Nardello peppers,
which are every chef's like very chefy thing. But every
year we try new things, you know, we do some
of the classics, We try new things. My kids get
to pick something that we grow every season.
Speaker 1 (31:19):
And it's because I think with all the different seeds
and stuff that you realize how varied. It's not just
like one tomato. There's like hundreds of varieties and for
each thing, and I think it ends up being so
it makes food and cooking so much more exciting, doesn't it.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
And that's regenerative thinking.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
Yeah, we don't have to have this horrible, you know
tomato that has no flavor, and all of them look perfect.
There's actually eighty varietals, you know. Y seed heritage is
a big part of what I talked about in the book.
It's all about trying a new ingredient. I tell people
another one thing you can do at home that's super simple,
(31:55):
that is nothing to do with right new systems, new
ways of you know, growing your food. Buy something new
every month, Buy an ingredient that you have never tried, like.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
Great field gut. Okay, totally diversity and what you eat
is like great for farming, but also so good for
you your gut, Like you need diversity in your gut microbiome,
and the only way you can get that is by
trying different things regularly, not buying the same things every
single week.
Speaker 3 (32:23):
So my kids do our grocery shopping with us.
Speaker 1 (32:26):
That is so nice.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
I think it's such a big way to get kids
to eat things. Yeah, and also it's just we are
very communal, like everyone trips in with everything, but even
that is so important. They really appreciate it. When we
go to the farmer's market, each one buys something new,
and I say to them, have to try a new
vegetable every two weeks.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
We have to try a new fruit.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
We're going to talk about where it's from, how it's grown,
what kind of vitamins are in it, and then what
that does for your body. So explaining certain things right,
it's for bone density, it's for eye clarity, it's for
your brain. I think people also underestimate how much that
can affect children too.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
My mum has always grown things in her garden, whether
it's herbs or curry leaves. She tried trying to indoor
grow curry leaves in the UK because it's so difficult.
I have curry. I have a curry leave fore here.
I'm going to give you some. It's huge. I always
wanted to and I got this hydroponics system when I
(33:24):
had a really small place here and I was so
shocked at how much could grow in it. And then
when I got to this house, I was like, oh,
I want a really big thing, and I want to
try and make it really huge. And so year went by,
another year went by, and I was trying to make
it this like big thing, and it was just what
you said. I was like, okay, I just need to start.
So I started with herbs because I use herbs so much,
so parsley, cilandra, like different types of herbs that I
(33:47):
have out there, curry leaf plant. I haven't got to
vegies yet, but even just that going out and being
able to grab my fresh herbs to put on top,
it changes the way that I experienced the food that
I'm eating. And so I agree, I think it just
starts one part. Even if it's one part of something,
it will make you want to grow more and make
you want to like it's just so much more exciting
(34:08):
that way.
Speaker 2 (34:09):
And you grow so much you share it, and then
that pollinates someone else to be like, oh, it was
really fun to get curry leaves, you know, when you
came over for dinner. Maybe I should grow something. It
does actually pollinate people thinking about it when you even
do something like bringing it over to their house.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
And you mentioned your children. You have three children? Don't
you four? For now? Oh my gosh, you have four children? Incredible?
And how has it been sharing your world with that? Yes,
I actually know. I want to talk. I want to
switch gears and talk about motherhood because four children is
incredible while you've been doing all of these things in
the world, and share your experiences, your lessons that you've
(34:47):
learned through motherhood and how it's been for you. Oh gosh,
how old is your new How old is your new newborn?
Like you're hearing it's you've been Your baby was bor
seven weeks ago? What do you make one?
Speaker 2 (35:01):
You look lovey, being sweet? I breast I pumped right before,
right before coming in here. I was like just five
minutes to like, you know, get it all out.
Speaker 1 (35:09):
With each pregnancy completely different, Like how how was the
process of each.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
Every single one? You know?
Speaker 2 (35:15):
I was not gifted with great fertility. It was very,
very hard each one. I always say to my husband,
I feel like I jug into the universe with every
bit of my being and every bit of my for
each one. Each one is a whole planet unto themselves.
They are totally different and unique, every conception, delivery, how
(35:40):
postpartum was, how my experience was. And I had my
kids very close together. So my oldest is just about
to turn.
Speaker 3 (35:46):
Five a couple of years. It's been a very intense
couple of years.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
No twins, I wish, but I think look for me,
motherhood was like the greatest clarifier. I think it made
me a better entrepreneur. You know, I wrote the cookbook
and produced the cookbook while I was trying desperately to
get pregnant with my fourth. I almost feel like they
I literally did our The IVF implant that finally worked
(36:12):
was the morning after we wrapped the cookbook photo shoot,
like this crazy four day marathon. We wrapped at like
midnight at seven am. I was down in Elsa Gundo
with you know, my legs up in the straps and
I was just like this, you know, and ever on
the shoot was like you're crazy.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
I was like, well, you know, it's all timed. You
don't get to pick it.
Speaker 2 (36:29):
They're like, your go date is tomorrow and you're like,
could it be the next day?
Speaker 3 (36:32):
And they're like no.
Speaker 2 (36:34):
You know people think I think people don't understand, just
like it's so yeah, it's been honestly a very intense,
intense journey with a lot of joy, a lot of heartbreak,
a lot of twists and turns.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
She do use IVF full most. For how many of
your children did you use IVF?
Speaker 2 (36:53):
Four two one was a very gifted accident, if you will,
I would say he was like fast and fast out.
And then my first I actually found out I was
pregnant in the middle of IVF after many, many, many
months of unsuccessful trying.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
So yeah, it's kind of these that I have done
IVF and it's been really difficult. I have someone in
my life you don't want to mention, but going through
at the moment for the first time, and it's really taken.
You know, it takes a toll on your emotions, on
your strength, on so many things. And you know, when
you have that desperate desire to be a mother, I
think you can only relate to it when you're in
(37:32):
that space, and I feel like every time I speak
to her, she's so positive, but at the same time
will be like crying with desperation when I'm when I'm
you know, when I'm having conversations with her. And so
how was that process for you? Do you have any
words of like encouragement for people going through because I
know more people that have done IVF than not lately,
(37:52):
and it's something which can be really difficult to decide
on and also go through.
Speaker 2 (37:58):
Yeah, I mean, look, I want to hold her, give
her my number.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
I like love.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
Talking to women about it because I do think we
keep it very hush hush still. I mean, I feel
like IVF, fertility and miscarriages are like it still feels
like the nineteen fifties, Like we're not supposed to say it.
Speaker 3 (38:16):
I mean, even people.
Speaker 1 (38:16):
People feel so it's so hard for people to even
speak about it.
Speaker 2 (38:20):
I've had people say, I mean, I can't believe you
talk about you know, some of your kids are IVF,
and I'm like, I'm out here, you know, sharing as
much as I can and trying to normalize it because
it is brutally hard. Look, you're hopped up on hormones.
You're literally biologically not yourself. You're taking I mean every day.
I took three shots for almost a year. I mean
(38:41):
it's brutal or like a science experiment. You don't feel human,
and no one can understand in that moment. You know,
I'd even say to my husband, I'm like, you know,
you're supportive, but like, you really don't know what it's
like to take this any shots.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
I't empathize, you know, you don't really and literally mentally
you're not yourself.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
You're on all these hormones. It's a huge part of
your day. You're also getting on top of that, you
getr blood drawn every other day, You're getting a sonogram
every other day. I mean literally, people are invading your
body twenty four seven. You know, one of the things
I say to people is one, it's not for the
faint of heart, and you kind of treat it like,
you know, I'm an entrepreneur, I run a startup.
Speaker 3 (39:22):
It's like a startup. You know the world's going like this,
and you.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Have to mentally figure out how to even it out,
kind of against all odds and maybe a level of psychosis.
Speaker 3 (39:33):
I don't know, just to be like I.
Speaker 2 (39:34):
Don't feel it and I want, you know, I tell people,
buckle up, get into it, like you do when you
do a job. You have to put that sort of
blinder intensity on and kind of power through because it's
brutal every time you find out you're not pregnant. I mean,
I share this story a lot. One of the times
when the IVF didn't work, I started bleeding the morning
(39:55):
I was hosting a big event for Coterie. It was
a room filled with new moms and.
Speaker 3 (39:59):
Pres ignant women.
Speaker 2 (40:00):
I like, literally wanted to die. And I had so
many people say, well, I can't believe you went through it.
I'm like, it's a job, Like I don't know what
am I supposed to do. Thirty people are coming to
this thing. I'm gonna cry while uncovered in blood, Like
I don't know. I mean, I literally was cooking something else.
I was wearing a white jumpsuit like an idiot. My
son was with me. I just was hopeful maybe again,
(40:24):
you know, crazily optimistic. Started bleeding in the middle of
the event. I had to go to the person's bathroom
put a sweatshirt around my waist like no one ever knew.
I mean, there were multiple of those things where you're
just like I would like to sit in my bed
and cry and not leave and not be with the world.
But that's not the right way to move forward. And
(40:45):
I don't have the luxury of that.
Speaker 3 (40:47):
Also.
Speaker 2 (40:47):
But I think amidst all that, I say to women,
you have to really put yourself care first about everything.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
I mean, any.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Practices that really helped you while you were going through
any of this that have stuck with you, oh you
feel have really helped you?
Speaker 3 (41:01):
Throw it one.
Speaker 2 (41:03):
I included my kids, and a lot of people were
very surprised by that I brought them to appointments, even
though it was very friend upon. They're like, it's triggering
for other women. And I was like, well, one, I
don't have childcare, but two, I didn't want it to
be this thing. I felt that it would be too
emotionally brutal to hide it from them, and like kids
pick up your energy. Anyway, they gave me shots. They
(41:26):
would hold my hand, they knew, and I would say,
we're trying, we're trying to bring this baby to the world,
you know, with each one that was IVF, even when
my son was very young, you know. So one, I
do think not Hiding it from people, I think is
a really big one. People think they're not ready to
face it, but I actually think it's too high of
an emotional burden For me. It was so one I think,
(41:49):
don't hide it.
Speaker 1 (41:51):
Who see is so important. I think every time I'm
going through something difficult, whether it's this or anything else,
you always end up feeling like the first instinct I
feel is to hie, thenate and hide. And I remember
my friend went through losing her mum and she'd lost
her dad years before. I asked her because I saw
her straight after and she was in like really high
(42:11):
spirits and I was like, what did you do to
like allow yourself to speak in the way you're speaking,
to be back at work so fast? Like what did
you do? And she said that the difference between when
her mom passed away and when her dad passed away
this time, sorry, when her dad passed away earlier and
when her mom passed away this time is she allowed
people in. And I was like, that is such good.
(42:34):
It was such great advice for any difficulty that you're
going through, Like, don't harden into a shell, be soft
and absorb people's love, absorb people's help. Because I think,
you know, along with along with shutting ourselves off, we're
used to shutting our homes off now and like we're
used to doing so many things where we're blocking everything
out because we feel overexposed. I think like social media
(42:56):
does that to you. You kind of end up on a
shell because a lot more is seen about you than
whereas I remember when my grandma would talk about when
she grew up, or even my mom. It was like
my grandma would have people coming through the door that
she didn't know for dinner. She would know she had
to make enough food for so much of the village
just because you don't know who's coming by. And I'm
like that the open heart, the open space, and if
(43:17):
you can do that with your own self, it really
helps with healing so much more than you think.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
I agree. I think it's just a lot to bear.
And I always say to people too.
Speaker 2 (43:27):
I mean I had my husband at every single appointment,
he was there for every single shot.
Speaker 3 (43:32):
I was like, I'm not doing this alone.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
And you you know, people I have some friends who've
gone through IVF and said, well, but what can they do?
Like they're not doing anything at at the appointment, I said, yeah,
but you're taking an hour out of your day to
go do that, someone should be there with you. I mean,
even as you have a baby. That inclusion I think
is important. I think second is you know, I believe
(43:56):
in body work. I think a lot of it too,
is like you don't feel like yourself and your own
skin and your own body. I wish we lived in
a country where things like acupuncture and chiropractor and body
work isn't seen as a luxury. I wish it was
covered by insurance, Like if you're lucky enough to have
IVF covered by insurance, A lot of this sort of
you know, to me, it's really like health maintenance should
(44:19):
be part of it because it's very hard to go
through without any form of that.
Speaker 1 (44:25):
So even if it's just a holistic practices that you
found a lot of them.
Speaker 2 (44:29):
I was like, I mean again, I went through a lot,
and I just decided like, Okay, this is going to
be a very road I am giving. And I just
also decided I'm not going to have guilt associated with it.
If I have to give up other things, great, that's
where my budget's going. And even as a family, it's
about me right now. And I didn't feel shame in
(44:51):
saying that, and I said it to my whole family,
like all of this is about bringing this baby to
this world. Right now, I am the centerpiece of that.
I'm okay with that, and I need to give myself grace.
I need to take care of myself. And these things
are not luxuries, are frivolous. They're really therapeutic, like I
(45:12):
really saw it as part of it. And look, therapy,
whether that's a life coach, a therapist, whatever works for you,
having someone who's not an intimate that you can really
work all this out.
Speaker 3 (45:27):
It is.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
It's very psychologically difficult and brutally painful. And again and
that's when it I can say that as someone where
it eventually worked. Yes, sometimes it doesn't, and that's a
whole other, you know, bucket of grief.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
So thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 2 (45:43):
I wish more people talked about it. I really do,
and I'm in your camp of I know so many
people who struggle to conceive and they don't talk about
you know, we just don't talk about it.
Speaker 1 (45:54):
Thank you so much for this. It has been such
a beautiful conversation. I wanted to just talk for hours
now to give such a calming voice. You need a podcast.
Speaker 3 (46:04):
Oh my gosh, yeah, you really do.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
One of those people. Here's their recorded voice and it's
like correct and.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
You know that's everyone. But I'm telling you your voice
is great to listen to. Thank you so much. I
want everyone to go out there. Wait, your book is
out when October tenth, October ten, chtober ten.
Speaker 3 (46:21):
Whether you listen to this theah for pre order, you know.
Speaker 1 (46:24):
Yeah, October tenth, Grab this book. It's gonna not just
give back to you, but to your family, to the
environment around you. And I think what great investment to
make in yourself and the world around you. So thank
you so much for creating that Westbourne. Oh my gosh.
Let me just tell you the other oils look gorgeous
and I cannot wait to taste them. And I'm so
(46:45):
excited to see what else you do in the world.
It's gonna be magical. Well, we have a lot we
got to collaborate on.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
And again, you have a very beautiful and very necessary
voice in this and we need this ground swell so
that it is, you know, the new normal.
Speaker 1 (47:00):
I know you're going to teach me how to make
my phone. Yes, yes, thank you. Thanks so much m
hm
Host
Radhi Devlukia
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