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June 18, 2019 38 mins

Jo Piazza from the podcast "Committed" joins Matty. They talk about how podcasting has become the new home for print journalists to tell stories. Also they discuss women in podcasting, the belief that every person has a story to tell, and they both share a story about Ira Glass. Later in the show Producer Morgan gives podcast suggestions including, "Help I Suck At Dating" "DTR" and "Mating Matters" For more on the show follow us on Twitter @AccessPodcast1 and you can follow Matty on IG, FB, and Twitter @MattyStaudt 

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Episode Transcript

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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, everybody, Welcome back. It's season three of Access podcast,
the podcast about podcast. If you're a brand new listener

(00:21):
and this is your first time, we'll welcome. I'm Maddie Stout.
Eleven years ago, I left the number one morning show
in San Francisco to jump into podcasting and join the
startup team at Stitcher. Currently, I work as vice president
of Podcast Programming fried Heart Radio. But here's the thing.
I just love podcasts. I love listening to podcast, I
love talking about podcast, podcast, podcast, podcast. I've had a

(00:42):
dollar for every time I said podcast during the day,
I would be so f and rich. You have no idea,
but anyway, my job is to help you find new
shows and also get to know some of the hosts
that you already love, including this week's host who I'm
really excited about. She's the author of seven critically acclaimed
books and a former editor and columnist with Yahoo, Current

(01:03):
TV and The New York Daily News. Her work has
also appeared in The Wall Street Journal, New York Times,
New York Magazine, Glamour, l Time, re Claire, The Daily Beast.
If it's a good obligation, Joe Piazza has been in it,
and I highly recommend you read anything that she's written.
She's such a good writer. She's also a great podcaster.
Her show is called Committed. Let's check out a clip

(01:25):
and then let's talk to Joe. A few things bring
a couple closer than fighting off a starving grizzly bear.
But by the time the bear came along, Patent Caroline
were used to confronting danger and discomfort together. They love
the outdoors and for adventure has shaped their entire relationship.
It's to find them. They've checked thousands of miles over

(01:46):
the most rugged terrain on Earth, testing their bodies, their minds,
and each other. Joe Piazza, thanks for coming on Access podcast.
I think you are in Philadelphia right now. I am. Indeed,
we just moved here. I've just fled the Bay Area
as well. I moved to l A. Congratulations. I don't

(02:08):
want to slag on it, but I'm every time I
go back, I'm grateful that I'm not living there anymore.
It really has changed a lot from the fifteen years
when I moved there. My husband moved there twenty years ago,
when it's a completely different city. It really is. Somebody
tweeted you and made a comment that it was like
a downgrade to move to Philadelphia, and your comment back was, yeah, no,
not stepping over needles and poop anymore, yep, yep exactly.

(02:32):
And I found I found affordable, wonderful childcare in like
an hour. Podcasting is definitely a world that a lot
of journalists are thriving in. And you coming from print
journalism into podcasting, what was the first thing that made
you go, you know, I want to get into this
and do this. One is that I think the Internet
has ruined good journalism in a lot of ways. We

(02:54):
are living We're living in an age where some of
the best journalism ever is happening, but we're also living
in an age of content spam, bullshit, um, where it's
harder and harder to discover real and authentic and great storytelling. Uh.
And I was having a really hard time with a
lot of the crap that was just being produced by

(03:15):
every single even even legitimate news websites in the world,
and podcasting felt like a real opportunity to do good
storytelling again. And I tell people this all the time
when I'm interviewing people or what I'm trying to convince
other journalists to do podcasts. This is the most fun
I've had in journalism in ten years. I mean really

(03:36):
since social media took hold and ruined good journalism. So
I think podcasting is absolutely the best medium to be
telling great stories right now. You know, kind of a
recurring theme when I talked to guests is that I'm
a personal believer that podcasting is part of a movement
to make people smarter. And also, you know, we look
at stats at like people twelve to listen to podcast

(03:59):
That kind lets me think, well, maybe we aren't raising
a group of illiterate, Instagram hungry kids that they're actually
caring about stories and they want to hear good storytelling.
I think we are. I really think we are. It's
that's actually interesting that you say that, because we were
just living in Tahoe for six months, in between San
Francisco and Philadelphia. We had this like Tahoe breather, and
we had this wonderful babysitter who was nineteen, and she

(04:22):
doesn't do social media, and none of her friends do
social media. They're not on Instagram, they're not on Facebook.
They even refused to Venmo because there's a social component
to it. But there, I know, And which means they're
all awesome and yes, they're also avid podcast listeners. So
that and I had these long conversations with her about this,

(04:43):
and it gave me so much hope for the next
generation that I think that they're genuinely hungry for real
and authentic connection and good storytelling. And I think another
part of that is also when you look at the
hosts of podcast, they look different than the host of
traditional media. We see a lot more women, we see

(05:04):
a lot more people of color. That's another thing. I
work at a university. I teach, and I also train
a lot of young radio talent, and I like cringes
when I talked to someone who's a young lady in
radio and ask them what they want to do and
they tell me they want to be a co host,
And I immediately like, no, you don't, you want to
be a host. But in that world, that's kind of

(05:26):
what the career path has always been. We're in podcasting.
You've got a lot of really strong women who were
doing amazing podcast and being uh celebrated for them, No
exactly exactly. I mean, I feel like women in podcasting
are really are being celebrated for having strong voices and
strong opinions in a way that I think just wasn't
always possible in traditional radio before. I just listened to

(05:48):
this episode of Longest Shortest Time where they interviewed Terry
Gross of Fresh Air about her decision not to have kids,
and she had a lot of reasons for it, but
one was that she did not see women hosting their
own shows in radio who could juggle a family and
the amount of work it took not just to create

(06:09):
a great radio show, but to be a woman creating
a great radio show. And I think that that's changing
a lot. I mean, I have I'm working on two
podcasts right now. I've got a toddler and another one
on the way, and thinking about developing a third one.
And I think that podcasting is welcoming all genders, it's
welcoming all colors, and it's welcoming people who may be

(06:31):
in a different part of their career but still want
to create great content. I've got to find that and
read that as someone who doesn't have children but has
been happily married for thirteen years. And you know, met
my wife. She was a fan of my radio show
and sent me an email, and you know, we're just
best friends, very much in love. The one thing that
I find is that people have no problem asking me
why we don't have children, and they do it all

(06:52):
the time, but it's she doesn't get that question as much.
It can be a kind of a taboo thing for
for some people and for other beliy have no problem
at all saying, Hey, what have who have kids? You
should have kids? That's that's It's really funny that you
bring that up, because ever since I got married, I've
been asked when are you having kids? And then when
I had one, all I got asked was when are
you having another one? Wow, get on it. Well you're

(07:15):
doing it, so maybe they'll quit asking or do you
think that they're totally gonna ask me if I'm having
a third I'm gonna be like, no, my husband's getting snapped.
You know. I think it's it's changed a lot. Just
made a decision not to have children. You know. I
find it more when I talked to like my neighbors
who are not from the United States, they tend to
ask us a lot. They have no problems like almost

(07:35):
like wagging their finger at my wife for not having children.
And you know, but it's definitely a life choice is
becoming more accepted, at least I think it is. But also,
people who aren't from the United States have no problem
saying anything to you, Like my my friends who aren't
from the United States have no problem saying, why did
you get so fat? Oh my gosh, that's not nice.

(07:57):
It's not nice, and it's it's The answer is because
I eat a lot of cheese. Yeah, I like cheese too. Hey, Keto,
I'm on that you can do the cheese. It's great.
So what are your favorite stories to tell? Because you know,

(08:18):
reading your articles, you've told a lot of different stories,
everything from the bro culture of Silicon Valley too. By
the way, if I had daughters, I would be like,
you're reading all of Joe's Ship right now because you
just have a lot of uplifting and things that I think,
you know, women, especially young women, should read. But what
are the stories that you like telling? Thank you, um,
And we're actually we're having a daughter, So that makes

(08:39):
me feel really good that you said that, because now
I'm excited for her to read it. On Good Morning America,
they were introducing one of my books, Miss Junkie Wants,
and they called me a feminist adjacent writer. Uh, and
I kind of liked that. I mean, I've thought of
a lot of the things that I write as feminist
but kind of feminism in like a hide feminism, feminism
and act and so writing about how being a woman

(09:03):
affects me and affects other women, but through real, everyday circumstances.
And I like to tell the stories that aren't being
told in the stories that are a little difficult to tell,
but through the lens of a human experience. So how
how is an actual person experiencing this as opposed to
just a great snappy headline. And that goes back to

(09:23):
what I was saying before about how I think the
Internet has ruined a lot of journalism because the Internet
really only cares about great snappy headlines and click baity tweets. Yeah,
and I think to kind of morph into your podcast Committed,
where do you find them good stories that people need
to hear, but definitely not going to see a quick
clickbait headline on you know, a Republican marrying a Democrat

(09:44):
unless it's some horrible, you know version of that, right
of course, of course, I mean, unless like one of
them beheads the other one. Uh. Well, so with committed.
It came out of when I got married. I got
engaged at thirty four, which isn't geriatric. That's not young either,
And both my husband and I had lived a life
before we got married, and we had no idea how

(10:06):
to be married or join our lives together. And people
tell you that marriage is hard, but they don't tell
you why exactly. And I'd also been a celebrity journalist
for a little while, which is both the best and
worst job in the entire world. And when you're a
celebrity journalist, you cover weddings and you covered divorces, but
you never cover the in between. You never cover the

(10:28):
mundaneity ees or the messy parts of an actual day
to day marriage. So we traveled around the world because
I was a travel journalist for Yahoo when we got married.
Um so God bless them and their deep pockets, uh,
and interviewed people about what it means to be married
and the stories turned into a book called How to
Be Married, And that book then got optioned as a

(10:51):
podcast where we explore different couples stories of how do
you do this? What are the messy parts of your
marriage that you don't instagram but you don't hashtag, hashtag
date night uh. And I know that I slag off
on social media a lot. I slag off on social
media almost as much as I slag off on San Francisco.

(11:12):
But I do it because I think it is a
problem on social media. Everyone's relationship looks perfect and we're
held we're held to a standard that's not true or
real and uncommitted. We want to talk about what real
commitment looks like. So in the beginning, we were we
were tracking down couples. I would hear stories, I would
ask people for interesting stories. And now we had twenty

(11:34):
nine episodes for season one, and you know, a couple
of million downloads, I think, and now people are coming
to us. We we get dozens of emails a day
with people saying, listen to my story. And those are
actually better than the ones that have been written about
in the press before, because they're real people. They're real
people who aren't media trained, who are really open and honest,

(11:59):
and the has have been some of my favorite episodes.
It's one of the things I teach my students is
that one of their assignments is they have to go
find somebody they interact with in their daily life. But
don't know very well and wouldn't think have a good
story and to get a good story out of them,
because everybody's got great stories. And I think that's one
of the things that's great about podcasting. And when I
talk to people, you know, people listen to podcasts, they

(12:19):
don't really want to hear a celebrity tell the same
story that they've told on entertainments and I fifty times
they'd much rather hear, uh, somebody real that they've never
met who's got a really cool, interesting story that is
educational and entertaining. I mean, that's the first thing that
I tell younger people who want to be journalists too.
I'm like, everyone has a story, and everyone wants to

(12:41):
tell that story. It's just figuring out what it is.
One of the best packages that the Wall Street Journal
ever let me do was on the people behind fashion
Week because I've covered the glitzy, fancy part of fashion
week for years um and then I was like, I
want to do a story on the guys who roll
out the carpet that the models walked out, or the
guys who have to spray Tanna model's body before they

(13:04):
can walk down the runway, and the or the guys
putting up the tents that that year there happened to
be a ton of snow during New York Fashion Week,
and so they had to call in all of these
unionized construction workers to get the snow off the tents
to get them up. And I did a story about
those guys, and those were the best Fashion Week stories
I've ever done. And I've interviewed every cool designer in

(13:24):
New York City and they weren't nearly as good as
those people. Absolutely, you kind of inspired me. I was
just thinking thinking back to something you said a little
bit earlier about you know, how people live the Facebook
them and nobody lives the Facebook life or the Instagram life.
That's that's the best version that they can come up with.
I'm recovered, and I do speeches for groups once in
a while, and one of the things I tell people
is that you have to understand that everybody has got

(13:46):
a lot of issues and it's okay to admit them
because you're not seeing any of that because you're only
seeing the Instagram in the Facebook. You But how interesting
is it to think about maybe a social media or
even maybe it is just through podcasting of having people
be the real them somewhere, because they're just not. We're
just kind of raising a whole society right now. That is,
you know, the whole thing is based on look, how
good I look and how good I'm doing instead of

(14:08):
you know, I'm had a bad day. I don't look
good today. Yeah, exactly exactly. And that's what scares me
about it because life isn't perfect, life isn't messy, and
I think the unhappiest people are probably the people that
are posting the most on social media and that are
that are looking the most at social media. And I've
really tempered my social media use. I'm completely off Facebook. Um.
Except for the occasional odd work post. Most of my

(14:29):
Instagram is either baby stuff because it's easier than texting
my mother fifty pictures a day or um. I mean,
and she really likes it too, like she really just
gets a kick out of like in those pictures on
my toddler, or there are things for work. It's my book,
so this is my podcast, this is what I'm doing,
and I also do try to be honest and like
I had a bad day. The baby woke up at
four thirty m puked and I kind of don't like

(14:50):
my husband very much today, and I like him again
this afternoon, but for right now, I kind of want
to punch him in the face. And I just I
think we do need to be more authentic and honest,
because if we're not, what kind of little people are
we raising? You know, not to just speak to a
bigger social ill, but one of the number one reasons
people don't get help when they're depressed, where they have addiction,

(15:10):
you know, have other things that if they just reached
out for help, they could, you know, get it. They
don't because of that because they feel like, well, everybody
else has got their ship together. It's just something I'm broken.
It's my fault, you know, and everybody's going to think
less of me if they find out totally. And it's amazing.
When I was pregnant last time, I had really bad
depression and anxiety while I was pregnant, so it wasn't

(15:31):
even postpartum. It was just like part of depression and
feeling like ship all the time. Uh. And I wrote
an essay about it, and then I wrote another essay
about feeling the same way after I finished breastfeeding, and
I've written you know, got thousands of articles in my
life right for for everywhere, for giving outlets from the
Wall Street Journal to Marie Claire to Glamour everything, And

(15:54):
those articles are the ones I get emails about on
on a weekly basis. A woman who's going through that,
who says, you know, I just look at these images
of perfect, happy, pregnant women and mothers all the time,
and thank you for sharing the fact that you felt
like crap. And so I think that that that's really important,
and that's part of what Committed does. Every episode of Committed,

(16:14):
I feel like it does bring you some hope, but
people also get honest and they get real about the
times that were hard and the things that hurt them,
and the times where they wanted to walk away from
their marriage and they didn't, and the reasons that they stayed.
And we just need more of that in the world.
You're right. Martha Quinn, who is one of our radio
talent and somebody I'm friends with, and and she had

(16:35):
did a podcast one day and she talked about postpartum
depression and she made a statement of it was that
I didn't want to kill myself, but I just some
days I just didn't want to live and as somebody
who had suffered and gone through, you know, years of depression.
It was the first time that I understood what postpartum
depression was because I was like, yes, I know that
feeling exactly. I used to have that feeling all the

(16:57):
time back when I was really suffering. Really made me
feel closer to her and also just closer to women
when I read about postpartum depression. Now I'm like, oh,
we're kind of we're in the same family. I understand
what it is. Yeah. I interviewed Um Maddie Corman, the actress,
yesterday for an upcoming episode of Committed, and she's doing
a one woman show called Accidentally Brave that's absolutely incredible

(17:20):
in New York right now. I really can't say enough
about it. And it's a what women show about her
husband being busted by the FBI with child porn. Um,
I mean that, and that tends to be the reaction
to find out, Um, what that shows about. And it's
a show about how that all went down and how

(17:41):
she survived it and how her marriage survived it. And
so that's what this episode of Committed is about. And
it was such it was it was a beautiful interview
because it was messy and it was the really it
was the messiest parts of the marriage that you could
possibly ever imagine, but then also the strongest parts of
a marriage. And every everyone's crying at the end of

(18:02):
the interview. I'm crying, our producer Ramsey's crying, and Mattie
was telling me, She's like, you know, at the end
of every single show that I do, people come up
to me and say thank you because they have Everyone
has a story. Everyone has something. It may not be
as extreme as her story, but everyone's got something that
they need to get off their chest, and they just
want to hear other people talk about their own ship. Yeah.

(18:23):
I'm a heart on the sleeve kind of person. And
I had something happened last week that was I just
made a faux pau. I said something that was I
shouldn't have said to somebody, and I was nervous to
talk to other people about it. But when I did,
everybody was like, come on, guy, give yourself a break.
Everybody does this, and then they wanted to unload their
story of what they had done, which you know, made

(18:43):
me feel better because I was like, damn, you really
did say something stupid. But I do feel like that
is a good kind of give back kind of thing.
When you give out, people want to give back. It is.
It is, And I think just people telling their own
stories and being honest and being open, it's really the
only way that we're going to connect as humans when
we're all staring at screens all day long. Who are

(19:04):
your favorite storytellers? Oh my gosh, does everyone just say
Ira Glass? I imagine everyone says Ira Glass. I don't
ask everybody that. Can I sell you a quick Ira
Glass story? I think yes, and and then I have
a quick eye re Glass, and let me hear yours first. Mine.
Mine's not that exciting. It's exciting to me. Though. I
was in Denver for a religion newswriter's conference. I actually

(19:24):
weirdly have this masters in religious studies and wrote a
book about ten badass feminist nuns. It was like this
alter ego I was living while I was a celebrity journalist.
I would be like chasing Britney Spears while she hid
in a closet and shaved her head, and then interviewing
nuns on the side. It's my dirty little secret. But
so I was at this religion conference and I guess
there was a public Variety of conference in town at

(19:45):
the same time, and both conferences were at a baseball game,
and I just heard this guy at the concession stand
in front of me ordering French fries, and I knew
that it was Ira Glass, and I don't think I
hadn't I'd never watched the TV show, so I wouldn't
have recognized him in person. And I just got so
weird star struck that he turned around and like I
had like big soda and beer in my hand, and
I just ran right into him and like, build the

(20:08):
build this junkle over me and then and then like
couldn't even say anything because I was just I was
so audio star struck just by hearing his voice. That
voice is the minute you hear it, it is uh,
it's powerful, It's incredible. Um. You know, This American Life
is what inspired a lot of what I wanted to
do with Committed And I'm sure every podcaster says that too.

(20:28):
They're like, I'm just We're the next This American Life.
But I didn't want to do a straight up interview show.
I wanted to create a kind of a beautiful narrative
storytelling podcast around the idea of commitment and marriage. And
I was really inspired by by This American Life. See,
I feel like I'm just saying all the all the
ones that everyone's like me too, Like David Sedaris is
has been one of my favorite writers and essayists for

(20:51):
as long as I can remember. Sloan Crosley as well,
who I actually have the honor of knowing in real life,
has also been this huge storytelling inspiration to me. I
have a dog named Mumbles, and he's named Mumbles because
of a David Sadari's essay that was done on This
American Life where his mother says the line, we don't
like Mumbles, do we? It's called Dogs If anybody wants
to go listen to it. Uh, And it's good. It's

(21:12):
really good. It's one of my favorites. And I'm as
a dog person, I love that. One. My quick Ira
Glass story is when we started Stitcher, you know, we
were reaching out to content providers to try you know,
this is eleven years ago and there wasn't that many
podcasts out there, and I somehow got a phone call
with Ira to try to explain to him what our
app was and why he needed and back then back

(21:33):
then that what must have been a confusing conversation. I
was confused, is well, I mean I was. I just
left morning show on a radio station and was like
in this new world and and I'm talking to him
and I'm trying to explain it, and I'm just I'm
turning into a battling it because A I'm nervous to
talk to him, and be I can tell right away
he's just not that interested. And then out of nowhere,

(21:53):
he just goes, it's hard starting a new business, isn't it.
And I immediately just gushed and told him yes, and
like unloaded everything and I'm like, that's why you're the
best man. Yes. Yes. That reminds me of this time
that I was interviewing Julie Andrews when I was a
celebrity journalist and I was like, I think I was
just like thirty one at the time and like kind

(22:15):
of like miserable and single and living in New York
and I wasn't Carrie Bradshaw and that sucked, and um
like Julie Andrews like put her hand on my knee.
I was like, how are you doing, dear? And I
was like, I'm not okay, and She's like, I believe
that love is waiting for you right around the corner.
And I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm like Maria

(22:36):
slash Mary Poppins and it was so, oh my gosh.
I'm sure that you get tired of answering this question,
but I'm always anxious to hear your most interesting celebrity
encounter doing the job that you had. I'm sure you
had many, but I guess I'm I'm looking more for
the stuff like that. I love that story. No, and
I love that story too. I mean, my my answer

(22:59):
is the unpopular one. I mean, the truth is, I
was so bored in a lot of ways being a
celebrity journalist. Um because I was just so sick of
the canned answers and canned responses. I started doing it
because I graduated from Columbia j School and it was
the recession, and people told me, oh, you're going to
have to go out to the middle middle of the

(23:20):
country and work a local news beat and go to city, county,
little town council meetings. And I wanted to stay in
New York and the only job that I could get
was as a gossip column assistant at the New York
Daily News, and I knew absolutely nothing about celebrities, so
much so that I talked to Jay z for like
an hour one night and had no idea it was
jay z Um. I was just like, he was just

(23:42):
this really smart guy and we had this great conversation
about politics, and my boss almost fired me the next day.
So I created flash cards to show me who the
celebrities were. And it was more interesting back in two
thousand three when I started, because social media didn't exist yet,
and because the Internet Internet news was just kind of starting,
celebrities were less guarded and still more interesting when you

(24:03):
interviewed them. And then just came the age of the SoundBite,
and the interview has just got to be so damn
boring because everyone said the same thing and everyone gave
the same interview over and over again. The most interesting
celebrities have always been to me, true actors and actresses
um and people who don't seek that kind of celebrity
tabloidy spotlight. Meryl Streep obviously like one of the best

(24:26):
celebrity interviews I've ever done, because she's a person who,
I mean, Meryl Streep like does not give a funk
what you think about her and I loved that and
that was absolutely incredible. I can't say enough terrible things
about reality stars. I really can't, Um, I mean, I
just it's hard to do an interview with someone that
so desperately wants to be famous. Yeah, you know, part

(24:49):
of my job is that I take pitches and I
work with people podcast ideas, and it's a lot of
my job. And I have to like get over the
fact that I have such a distaste reality show folks
that you know, when they come in, it's like, you know,
my first thought is what do you have to say?
And why do you think that you could do what
I do? You know what I mean, And you know,

(25:10):
write a lot of time. But you know, sometimes I'm
not I'm completely off base and wrong, and I had
to be open minded. But there is something to be
said for this culture of I'll do anything in my
life to be on TV, anything to be famous. And
I have been proven wrong a couple a couple of times. Um,
I'm usually proven quite right, and you know I was.
I was working in celebrity journalism during I wrote this book.

(25:33):
My first book ever was called Celebrity inc How Famous
People Make Money? And I keep telling myself that I'm
going to write the sequel because everything that was happening
ten years ago when I wrote the book is just
you know, to the tenth degree now of madness. And
the book, the book second chapter was on the rise
of Paris Hilton and how Kim Kardashian was the Paris

(25:55):
Hilton two point oh. She was her Apple to my
Paris Hilton's Microsoft and just did everything better and smarter
and to the tenth degree. But that was the very
beginning of Kim Kardashian's rain. And I also I blame
myself and my fellow celebrity editors for even letting it happen.
A lot of it also, how to do with the
writer's skills strike at the time. Yes, Like we could

(26:18):
have a whole podcast talking about because now and I'm thinking,
I'm thinking about it now with everything that's going on
with the w g A now and I'm like, oh
my god, this first round, this first battle lead to
reality television. What's going to happen next? Yeah, well, I
don't know how much further it could sink, So yeah,
I could. I think we have to do a second
podcast where we can swap stories. I'm anxious to hear
some more. I'm in l A a lot. Next time

(26:39):
I'm in l A. We could just like go and
eat like a lot of cheese together and swap stories.
I would love that. I would love that. I want
to be your friend so bad. Well, now you've got me,
let's be friends, so Joe, before we go, I always

(27:02):
wrap up with a little thing. I'm a radio guy,
so I have to do, you know, kind of radio
segments once in a while called three killer questions. So
I'm gonna ask you three questions and let's see what
you have to say. Question number one, if you could
listen to a podcast featuring anybody living or dead, who
would be on that podcast? Jesus, Jesus, you're saying Jesus
or Jesus would be the person you want to hear

(27:23):
on the podcast. I want to I'd like to hear
Jesus on the podcast. Anybody with him? That's interesting? Um.
Courtney Love, Oh my god. I interviewed Courtney Love once
on the phone, and I told somebody was like listening
to a homeless person name drop for two and a
half hours. I just let her talk. We talked for
two and a half hours. You're not the first person

(27:43):
that I've talked to that's had that experience, because I've
had that experience to. Joanna Malloy was one of the
like big names on the column when I went to
the Daily News, and she she was a great listener
and had developed this relationship with Courtney, and Courtney would
call her and sometimes, like I would have to take
Courtney's calls, and it was just it was like two
and a half hours of the craziest rambles you've ever

(28:07):
But it wasn't just us. I think it was like
every journalist, like around the turn of the century was
getting these calls with Courtney Love No. I got it.
And I remember at the time she was telling she
started the phone call off by saying that she doesn't
drink anymore, but she has one glass of wine. And
then in two hours in it, you know, she told
us that the one class was a big golf cup. Uh.

(28:27):
And let me say this off the bat. I love her,
I love her, I love her. I was listening to
Celebrity Skin on the car this morning. I love that.
Oh my gosh, I that's one of my all time
favorite albums. I mean, I love whole, I love the
way Jake Brennan did his Curt and Courtney story on
Disgrace Land so good, and he gives her the props.
I think that that she deserves that everybody maligns her.

(28:49):
But at the same time, if you had to deal
with fucking Kurt Cobain all the time, I mean, he
was a disaster to deal with a disaster, and I
mean it's true, like everyone turns Corney into the demon
and I mean he yeah they were, they were both
terrible heroin addicts, but yeah, he was the one overdosing
all the time. She's the one having to like poke
the pin into his testicles to wake up up. I mean, yes,

(29:12):
I have Jake coming on the podcast in a couple
of weeks, and I'm so excited, fantastic. I really want
to meet him. I love what he's doing with Disgrace Land.
Our new podcast is a storytelling podcast about fierce wimmen
that history has forgotten scarce and I I just look
at Disgrace Landers such a model for that. So I'm
he's like my storytelling hero right now. Yeah, He's definitely

(29:32):
one of mine. And I'll tell you one of the
cool things is, as our company has morphin from radio
into podcasting. A lot of the radio hosts who were
not you know, some of them weren't into podcasting, and
a lot of them, like Jake has been one of
their first introductions into podcasting and they love it and
now they're really into podcast And I'm like, he is
a that's a good one to get introduced to podcasting too,
because he is so good and it's a it's a

(29:53):
really safe gateway drug. Yeah, exactly. Question number two, You
get to give a newly wed couple one piece of advice.
Go on vacation without each other. The best advice I
give I give to new couples, and I heard it
a bunch from couples, not American couples, because American couples
are terribly codependent, but from couples around the world. It
spend time away from your spouse having your own adventures,

(30:14):
because it makes you a more interesting person, it makes
you more mysterious, It gives you things to talk about,
and it makes you miss them. So take big and
exciting vacations without your spouse. Nick and I actually went
on separate baby moons before Charlie was born. I went
to like this wine country spa with my best girlfriend
and he went kayaking in the Channel Islands. Wow. Yeah,
I just think about that. My wife and I do

(30:35):
do that. We do a lot of stuff apart, but
we're very codependent that we love each other. Oh no,
I mean we're still totally codependent. Yeah, it's great. I
always tell everybody that if everyone in the world died
except for her, I'd be all right, Okay, I mean
now I'm kind of into my kid. But yeah, you know,
the kids new, but you still know, you still know
he's still in the ass a lot of time. Uh

(30:58):
And finally they you might have already told us, but
what is the last podcast that you binged? It really
was disgrace land. Um, Like, I just finished up that
Kurt and Courtney episode, which is why I was driving
this morning listening to Celebrity skin Joe. Thanks so much
for coming on the podcast. You're delightful and I can't
wait to talk to you again. I know we're gonna
eat so much cheat time. I'm in l A. I
can't wait. Oh, and I'll take you to the cheesiest

(31:20):
of the cheesy shops. All right, it's my favorite time
of the show. It's when our producer Morgan comes in
and tells us about three podcasts that we should be
listening to. Morgan, this is your second time being on
the show. You feel good about the last episode? I do.

(31:41):
I feel better than I was expecting to on my end. Yeah,
so pretty strong start. But I feel like we can
only get better from here. And you're learning how to
produce a podcast with me looking over your shoulder and
bothering you a lot. Yes, and you hate me yet
or by annoying you yet? Not yet? But we're on
episode to Maddie, here we go. Buckle up. I like

(32:01):
that attitude, all right. So we just had a great
interview with your Piazza, who I love. If you are
anyone who has a daughter, you should have them read
Joe's stuff. She is m amazing. I love her. You
don't have time to read every article about somebody that
you're doing, but I just got I went down rabbit
holes of reading her stuff. So, Morgan, your task was

(32:23):
to find me some podcasts that I might go in
line with somebody who might listen to committed. What did
you find? Yes? I found some good ones. First one
is called help I Suck at Dating. This is a
popular one amongst some of my friends, and it's hosted
by some people that were on The Bachelor. The Bachelor,
I I, I don't get that show. I don't either,
But there's a lot of podcasts being done by folks

(32:43):
from the Bachelard and people love them. They love them,
So what is what is the hook? Why do people
like this podcast? People like this one because who knows
how to date better than people that were rejected on
national and television. Right, So they were like, oh, if
we all can't figure out how to date on our own,
let's put our three minds to other. And they feel
like if there's three of them, they have a better
chance of finding the secrets to relationship success. All right,

(33:07):
let's listen to three people who are so beautiful they
got on TV. Tell you how about dating. I don't
know if it's just l A. I mean, I'd love
to what you think. But I feel like every guy
here is just like you know, I could sleep with
any any girl, and they just wait for girls to
come up to them because they know they will. So
the other thing is, if you're getting guys like that
and you're looking for an actual high quality guy, he's

(33:28):
not probably out you know at a bar. All right,
that's that's a fine show, not for me. But this
is the point of doing this. You're telling me about
shows that I might not listen to it, and it's
one of our shows, so I support them. But I've
been married for thirteen years, so and I did a
relationship show for ice, hosted one for seven years. So
you figured it out. Tell me, your straight male friend.

(33:49):
Here's what I learned doing a relationship show for seven
years on Serious XM. And as a podcast, you get
the same five questions all the time. People ask you
the same question all the time. I'm gonna tell you
right now, here's how you answer anybody if you're hosting
a relationship show, tell them go to a mirror and
look at yourself and ask yourself that question. And then

(34:11):
if you don't think you have the right answer, and
then you're wrong. I mean you have the answer. You
just want someone validated or to convince you that what
you're thinking is is wrong. And here's the thing. You're
not going to listen to what I tell you anyway.
You're gonna go do what you want and then you're
gonna come back next week and call me and go
I just don't know what happened. Again, So that one
answer applies to every relationship question. Go to a mirror,

(34:35):
look into it, and ask yourself the question, and you
will know the answer. There you go. I'm going to
keep that in mind. I just invalidated all relationship podcasts.
So if you're listen, looking for other ones to listen, Yeah,
let's find some more. The next one I have is
called d t R. It is the official Tender podcast.
Oh yes, I this This one, I believe was up

(34:56):
for an i Heeart Award this year. It was the
Winner Radio Podcast Award for Best Branded Podcast. I love
branded podcast because they branded with Tinder. But it's hosted
by Jane Murray, who is a writer. She's worked for
like Cosmopolitan, a few other ones, and she goes into
everything that's good and bad about dating, like what you
should say when you were responded to someone for the

(35:18):
first time, very millennial things. I love that, Yeah, and
like what's awkward about it? What's funny about it? She
dives deep until the uncomfortable. I'm not I haven't been
on Tender in a few years. I always wonder if
I would be on Tinder if I was. Yes, I would, well,
if you're single, why not, why not have fun? It's
just an app that you're swiping. Hey man, you only

(35:40):
live once. But yeah, so this is a good podcast,
and like I said, Brandon with Tinder, and it's what
it's like to meet new people in an internet obsessed world.
Let's hear it. You've heard Julia this season forcing other
daters to bear their souls, and it turns out it
can be a special kind of hell to be single
going on first dates. While working on a pod cast

(36:00):
about single people going on first dates, Julia is drowning
in it all day at work and then actually living
it in her free time. Now I would listen to
that just for research. I have a friend who is
recently single in his late forties and he's on those
apps and oh it's ridiculous. So this is for people
like us that aren't on Tender but want to get

(36:21):
the experience of it. Yeah, alright, what you got? Last one?
All right? Last one? This one is from my heart
as well. By the way, we're not out to like
promote just our shows. But here's the thing. We're the
biggest podcast company in the world, so we have a
lot of them. So invariably some of the best ones
are ours, so we talk about them. Which one is is?

(36:41):
This one is called Mating Matters and is made in
the same studio that we're recording in right now. Yes,
I love this podcast. It is Dr Wendy Walsh and
it's produced by Brooke Peterson. I think one of the
best produced podcasts in the world. It really is. It's
such a good podcast. So much research and time and

(37:01):
really thoughtfulness goes into this and you can tell because
if you listen to an episode, you're going to learn
so much. And their whole goal is that you understand
yourself better by diving deep into the biological, the psychological
and all this all the underpinnings of love, attachment, and gender.
Let's check it out. I believe that we've pretty much

(37:23):
evolved to do most things in our life, and the
reason why most human behaviors exist is to increase our
reproductive odds. Some of our cultural systems were all designed
to increase survival. Good, good choices, Morgan, good job, weak
two in the books. I appreciate you coming in, Thanks,
thank you, all right, thanks for listening, you the listener,

(37:50):
all five of you. I enjoy you. If you want
to hear past episodes, It's really easy. We're on the
I Heart Radio app. You can also listen to us
on Apple Podcasts, Spotify. Wherever you listen to podcasts, send
us a tweet. It's at Access podcast one because we
can't get at Access podcast still, but tell us what
you want to hear and you can follow me as well.
I'm very entertaining on social media at Maddie Stout m

(38:13):
A T T Y S T A U d T.
You can follow me on all of the socials, all
of them. All of them shows produced by Morgan, Thank
you Morgan. Music by Casey Frankie, and special thanks to
Robin Berta Lucci and Oscar Ramirez who hook us up
with the studios here at k f I and Beautiful
Lovely Los Angeles. Will Pearson, thank you. And thanks to
the Godfather Podcasting, our president of I Heart Radio podcast,

(38:35):
Condel Byrne Conald. You're the man. See y'all next week.
Thanks for listening.
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