August 21, 2023 • 53 mins
Welcome to Ace of Hearts, a dating podcast from every perspective! This week we'll talk with a good friend of mine, Chesh and his experiences being polyamorous and married. Now of course Chesh doesn't speak for all people who are polyamorous, and we have no intent of generalizing polyamory. Every person is unique and so is their story. Topics: Polyamory, Monogamy, Marriage, Religion, Dating, Sex, Love, Relationships Social Links through my (Maddy Goshorn) Production Company Determinal Velocity Facebook: Determinal Velocity Twitter: @DTerminalVeloCT Instagram: determinalvelocity TikTok: determinalvelocity Website: determinalvelocity.com Thank you to The Jellyrox for letting us use their song "Glued" If you think you have a unique perspective that affects your dating life, and would like to talk about it on the show, send us your story at aceofheartspodcast@gmail.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, my King's, Queen's and in between's. Welcome to Ace
of Hearts, a dating podcast from every perspective. My name
is Maddie and I am your host for any first
timers here. Ace of Hearts is a dating podcast where I,
the naive asexual that I am, talk to people with
(00:23):
an assortment of different backgrounds about.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Their dating life. And before we continue, I just always
like to state this, we at Ace of Hearts have
no intention of generalizing any lifestyle, race, gender, disability, etc.
Our desire is to hear love stories or maybe sometimes
horror stories from people who don't always get the spotlights.
(00:50):
Every person is unique and so is their story. And
today we're going to be talking with my good friend Sheesh. Sheesh.
Would you like to introduce yourself?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Chesh, and I am polyamorous.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Size May I say, are you in a relationship at
the moment? Are you in multiple relationships?
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yeah? Yeah, I'm married, but we are I think colloquially
in an open relationship. That doesn't necessarily mean seeing anybody
right now, but open to the idea of stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Let me just say, like real quick, I just want
to talk about this. I think before the term polyamorous
was probably used. People would probably end up saying you're
not polyamorous, you're in an open relationship. Would would you
like kind of agree with that kind of mentality.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Yeah, I feel like that's an older, an older term
that people were just like, yeah, they're in an open relationship.
I feel like before that people just were like lumping
everything in with swingers.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, I know that's true. That was probably the saying
a good couple decades ago. But I'd like to think
the world is slowly, slowly adapting and changing for the better.
So when did you figure out that you were polyamorous
or that this was a part of who you were?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
I think a lot of it is just starting off.
Like my wife and I always said to each other that,
like nothing's completely off the table without like talking over it,
you know, coming together and determining whether or not we
wanted to do something. So open marriage kind of in
all regards one of those being other partners as well. So,
(02:47):
but definition were open to anything, open to talking about
it at the very least. Yeah, when we were dating,
she had a really high sex drive and I did not,
and that was really weird, especially as soon as we
got married. Our sex drives like immediately flipped. I suddenly
(03:10):
had a very high sex drive and she did not,
So there was a weird dynamic and like trying to
figure ourselves out. Like after a few years we were like, okay,
we'd always said being open as on the table, I
like to have sex, and she was like, yeah, let's
let's just go for it. And so we started getting
(03:30):
on dating.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Apps okay and rough Bullpark. How old were you guys.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
When you two got married mid twenties.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I mean, I honestly, I think that's very interesting because
some people know what orientation they are at such a
younger age, and some people like take some time to
figure it out. I don't think I called myself a
sexual until I was like twenty five, because I well, A,
I hadn't heard of the term until I was in
my mid twenties. But also, like sometimes you just hear
(04:00):
the terminologies or the right puzzle pieces just kind of click.
You had a very low sex drive when you were
younger I assumed teenager, early twenties, and yeah, you just
didn't really want to have sex with anybody, not just
your girlfriend, just nobody, no sex for nobody.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Yeah. I think part of that was I on top
of a very conservative family.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Ah no, I completely understand that.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
I also was just doing other things all the time,
Like I don't think I had the energy for sex,
like all that sexual energy that people have. I was
doing every sport, every activity I could get my hands on.
And when you're that busy, like you get up, you
do stuff all day, and then you go to bed
just exhausted. And I did that for my entire life.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
I think maybe that was your parents plan as well
of trying to keep you out of trouble. I suppose
they would probably say.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Oh it worked. If that was their goal was to
to keep me pure till marriage, then man, they nailed that.
Yeah you know, then you got to work over time afterwards.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Work over Oh I got you. Yeah, you're making up
for lost time now.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Oh yeah. It's something I feel like I see a
lot of people who are raised in more conservative families
double double up all the things that they were missing out.
So like, nobody talks more about sex than young conservative
married couples that didn't get to talk about sex when
they were sixteen.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Yeah, it's almost like a freedom, I guess, right where
beforehand you're almost kind of constricted under a very conservative
lifestyle family kind of very much over your shoulder a
lot with asking you to do all these activities. And
then once you had like the time, the constraints were lifted.
Oh yeah, I can talk about this, I can think
about this, I can actually do these things.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Yeah. Even you're kind of given permission. So even if
you are still conservative yourself, there's this cool nature. Now
I have permission to do this, and it's it's actually
not that big of a deal, which is why I
can talk about it so openly.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Oh man, I didn't even think about it like that.
You're still constrained. Now you're with the cool kids table.
Now I can talk about sex.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Yeah, it really is that. Like you look at famous
there's a famous megachurch pastor who basically got famous because
he was like the one guy that openly talked about sex.
And man, did that just shoot him right to like
the top of popularity.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Now was this like was he marketing to young adults?
Speaker 3 (06:36):
No? Absolutely going for like the young single ready to
mingle for the lord of course religious crowd.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Are are you religious? Chesh?
Speaker 3 (06:49):
I went to Bible college, raised in a super conservative family,
and even worked as a youth pastor so like, not
until recently have I even been open and about like, yeah, no,
I'm not really like religious anymore, but man, do I
have a lot of knowledge and experience with religious stuff
(07:10):
right when?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
You wouldn't consider yourself a Christian at this point? Or
is that still something you're still thinking about?
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Nah? I think I think it's pretty safe to say
I wouldn't consider myself a Christian anymore.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
So, you and your wife, you were married for a
couple of years before you started to date openly. Write
three four years.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Into it or was it five years into it?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Okay, still pretty new into the relationship.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Yeah. Yeah. So we actually had two people talk to
us about polyamory beforehand, not people who were into polyamory,
but people who were just advising us about it before
we got married. One of them said like, hey, from
a conservative Christian, no less, what you do in the
bedroom is your own business. Just you know, be careful.
(07:55):
I was like, dang, not the person I thought I
was going to get that advice from.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
And was recommending like an open relationship.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Yeah. I mean I wouldn't say they recommended it, but
it definitely sounded like they were like, hey, look, that's
you know, whatever's your business is your business. It didn't
sound like they were condemning it.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, Honestly, that's kind of cool to find someone because
I know religion, especially mass religion, can seem so overbearing
and judgmental and critical. So it's very cool to find
someone still in the community that is open minded.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Yeah. I think I think their case was a little
bit specific to them. They were a relationship expert in
the Christian field, if you will, okay for them, I
think they've seen enough go wrong because of issues and
because of people not opening themselves up to things like
polyamory if it's not work, and like, I'm not going
(08:48):
to give you the completely impossible expectation of like just
you know, stay on the straight monogamous path, like.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
You stay on that path, you Christian boy.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
If ay man, if it isn't work, and just just
keep chugging along and doing the same thing over and
over again, certainly it will right itself.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
But I like that idea though, of if something's not
working in your relationship, figure it out, talk about it,
open yourself up to communication, which is exactly what you
and your wife did. You open yourself up to talk
about what exactly wasn't working.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Yeah, and as much as I fought against, like, man,
I don't want to be the stereotypical guy here, but
like that's how the story ends up happening. Like I
really liked having sex, and she was like, I mean
I could take it or leave it.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
You were horny. I've met your wife. I can't say
I can't say I exactly know how she feels because
I know she's she's also a horny lady. But hey,
if you're horny and you want to get it, you
get it. So I'd love to talk about the first date,
or at least a date that you remember when you
(09:58):
first started to date as polyamory, when you first started
to date as a married man to third parties.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
To be honest, I'm a very picky person. Even though
I went into this with the expectations of like, yeah,
I'm gonna go in ultimately this is about having sex
kind of, I still have a lot of hang ups
I'm going to this. I'm like, yes, one night stands
that don't mean anything. I'm like, I can't do that.
(10:27):
I need like I'm regardless of what happens, I'm about
to be like, and you're a middle child, and that's
so cool. Like I'm gonna just got I'm gonna be
talking with somebody and like stumble my way into like
meeting their family somehow by accident, Like that would be
that would be my luck. I just I really I
find that so cute.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Man, I really want to be a folk boy, but
dang it, I just it seems really cool and I
wanted another family. I just love that, and I think
that's very sweet.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Yeah, I just love Like every time I would go
on a date, I was very clearly wait, like getting
to know people is a turn on. I like getting
to know people. Okay, you know personality. Looks are important,
obviously looks are important, but I like I realize I'm
(11:17):
also like I really like a good conversation. Yeah, and
one night stands where you're like literally showing up banging
one out and then bouncing just doesn't.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Doesn't do it for you. Yeah, that does an interest to.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Like I think that in my head that that's what
how things were going to go. Yeah, and that was
not the case. Like I was like, oh no, because
like I'm a detailed person also where I'm like we
got to figure this out, Like all right, they got
to know that, I'm at The word I was using
at the time was consensually non monogamous.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Okay, so you weren't You weren't calling yourself Polly at
that time, No, because.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
The idea wasn't exactly to have a consistent partner if
you will, is just kind of be dating around and
if I happen to find somebody that, you know, we
could hook up on the regular, have a good friendship
relationship with, you know, by definition the friends with benefits,
(12:12):
that would be awesome, but overall weuld just use consensually
non monogamous was the term we were running with.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, the ones on the dating app.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Yeah, So it'd be on dating apps and be like,
all right, I'm coosentially non monogamous, have that upfront in
my profile. And then people got to be aware of that,
and most people, I guess, I don't know if they
just wouldn't read the profile or had no idea what
it is. And I'm like, yeah, like, I'm married consentually
not monogamous. That means I have a partner that I'm
married to. And a lot of times you get people
(12:42):
that would dip their toe into conversation and be like ooh,
like it would be really awesome to hook up with you,
but also that's kind of weird for me. I don't
know if I'm if I can do that all right,
Like you're single and I'm available, yeah, and we would
just be hooking up like this isn't like a thing
and that weird to out, Okay, but I.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Can understand, especially the environment that you're in because you
live in a I guess I don't we don't need
to give away cities, but you're in South Carolina, which
isn't really known for being very open minded to racial
diversity and LGBTQ diversity in general.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
If for stereotyping, oh yeah, it's uh, it's it's not
a great scene. There are decent amount of colleges, but
if you're out of the college range, like yeah, not
exactly a young and single area.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Yeah, and not always the most open minded I would
say area too.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Yeah, Like if you're not in college, all the people
that are looking to date are already divorced, pretty much
all almost all the people that I was going on
dates with were people that had gotten married and were
already divorced. And then I would be like, oh yeah,
like essentially non monogamous. Here's my situation, and they'd be like, well,
why don't you just get divorced? And I'm like, cause,
(14:04):
because I don't want.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
To, because I still love my wife.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Yeah, because I still love my wife and we're really
good together. Like I'm not about to let one small
issue like ruin all of that. You know, the whole
point of consensual non monogamy is to like aid with
the rest of this.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Like, yeah, exactly, and clearly it's someone who sees your
situation and thinks like, oh, well, then it's not working.
But no, like a relationship isn't just sex. There's so
much more. Sex is just an aspect about it. Any
I guess for these divorce as anyways, they just don't
see it that way. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
It's like, hey, do you ever have like a friend
that you play a sport with because you really enjoy
like hanging out with them and playing that sport And
maybe your partner doesn't play that sport. Maybe they don't
play I don't know, rugby. Yeah, and I don't necessarily
expect them to sort of a niche field. Your partner
(15:01):
isn't going to be the everything you have friends, right,
you do things with those friends that you wouldn't with
your spouse. This is just adding sex into that and
not just sex, but like you know, dating as a
whole exactly.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yeah, you're right, You're sorry. Sorry if I took it
down like a peg on like emotional intimacy by saying
just sex. Sorry if that was on me.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Oh no, no, I do nothing of it.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
But I'd love to hear if you have any very
specific stories from some of the individuals you said, there's
some people who just kind of judge. Honestly, it sounds
like over over the dating apps. Any other interesting I
guess impressions or stories you can you can remember.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Yeah, So there was one where I was hooking up
with this girl and she was like also wavering the
halfway point between I do want to know more about you,
but also I don't want to know any details because
it's really weird that you're married.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
That's not a conversation I can imagine too. This girl's
being like, how's your family?
Speaker 1 (16:00):
No?
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Wait, sorry, how's your do you have any pets? Wait?
I shouldn't know that, like just all just like wavering
back and forth of.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
I was like, you can ask, I'll tell Like I'd
be like, Okay, here's the end. They're like, don't actually
you know what, don't tell me I don't.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Want all right, Yeah, that is so interesting.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
But then on the other hand, there was there was
actually a good one. I found somebody who was also
in an open relationship. I should preface with I do
understand now why open relationships are seen as weird and
(16:38):
a bit cringey, because most people who are in open
relationships are trying to fix a failing relationship. Not everyone obviously, gotcha.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
I would argue that is probably the biggest mindset people
think of when they hear open relationship. They probably think, oh,
that relationship's going down the toilet. This is like a
last day effort to save it.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Yeah, because it's I mean, I would say, the same
thing can be had with like kids.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Oh, that's a good point.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
There are a lot of people. Obviously, not everybody who
has a kid is trying to fix their marriage by
having a kid with their partner. But man, do I
know a lot of people that are that have children
because they were like, it's that or divorce. Some of
the people I've run into that were like, well, why
(17:27):
don't you just go divorced over this issue of sex.
That's what they had done. How was your relationship with
your married partner at the time, and they were like
it was good, but the sex issue we just could
not get over where I wanted to have sex all
the time and they did not, So we got a
divorce any other problems And they were like not really,
(17:50):
dang that is I mean, I guess, do what you
gotta do, but maybe give polyamory a try first, yeah,
or at least.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Like communication is so important in any relationship that it
really does does seem like almost like a shame that
that was the one flaw that they just couldn't seem
to talk about or be more open minded.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
I guess there are so many things that you could
say for marriage, like the communication, communication, communication, but almost
all that can be said for any relationship, Like, there's
so few things that can be said for marriage that
are specific to marriage and couldn't just be said for
like relationships in general.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
A business relationship, yeah, freaking pr relationships, it's yeah. Communication.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
That being said, there was another open relationship that I
found somebody else and I started dating them and like, oh,
so don't really need to talk about our partners too much.
It was a little bit interesting because in this case,
both my wife and I had stumbled across them on tender.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Okay, so you were both dating this person, yes, okay.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
And completely by accident to start. Yeah, but we both
were like, so, I'm going on a date with so
and so, and I'm like, that is also a person
I am talking to right now.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Oh my gosh. Were you guys cool with it upfront?
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Yeah? Upfront it was really good. My wife was like,
you know, I'm not really ready to date, but like,
hanging out's fine. I really like having this person as
a friend. I was like, cool, I'm probably going to
date them, And so we did for a while. Three
of us would like cooked up a couple of times,
but most of the time it was just this person
I was dating and myself, you know. And then they
(19:40):
still had their other primary partner, and they also had
a few partners that they would kind of hook up
on the side occasionally.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
And you were and obviously you're married to your wife.
Would you consider this other person your other partner, your
your girlfriend or boyfriend?
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Yeah, they were non binary, but for the purpose of
non confusion, birrelfriend isn't exactly a great word. What'd you
call it?
Speaker 2 (20:02):
A birlfriend? So that's a girl boyfriend. I don't think
i've heard of burrel friends.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Oh my gosh, there are so many non binary names
for relationships and they're all terrible. I don't know if
you know this, but but NBI's love frogs.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
You know what I know? Gen Z's love frogs.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Yeah. So I've known for a while that, uh, the
queer community loves frogs. I have never understood why until
I started dating this person, and then it became very clear.
It's because frogs are like gender fluid.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Okay, I feel like I might have.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Known that frogs can just be whatever they need to be, you.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Know, so can like worms though, But I guess frogs
are cute.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Yeah, I mean frogs are very memorable. Yeah. The moment
that I put that all together and I was like, oh, oh,
that's why they're turning all the frogs gay. Now it
makes sense.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
All the frogs they're ag Yeah. Yeah, oh, I had
no idea. See, I'm learning That's that was a part
of doing this podcast. I wanted to learn. Sorry, we
got distracted my frogs. Uh, but that's so interesting. I
had no idea that that's like a huge like I
kind of like the of the queer community anyways, But
(21:18):
I did want to talk about something I think we
kind of got distracted away from. You said at one
point you and your wife were dating the same person.
Did that involve threesomes or was it totally practically separate
relationships you and your wife were having with this third person.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Oh hell yeah. If you can imagine, it went in
reverse order, where like the threesomes happened first, and then
everything kind of pittered out. My wife was like, eh,
I think I'm good. And then me and my girlfriend
continued dating on our own, and we'd hang out from
time to time, all three of us, you know, play
(21:55):
some disc golf, watch a movie.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
But threesomes were never really the goal. It was a
sort of a funny little accident that you both were
dating the same person.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Literally, a funny little accident where we were dating the
same person. We're all lying in bed together, like, uh,
you know, hanging out watching something, We're on our phones.
Next thing you know, we're getting handsy and we're like, ah,
that was so weird. This will never happen again. Literally,
the next time we were all hanging out.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Okay, cool, No, I mean it's it's interesting you know
that can that is a part of the polyamorers lifestyle.
Feel like a lot of people think about threesomes as
that's the goal, but that was just sort of a
fun thing that happened in between it all.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Yeah, And I guess when people think about Polly, maybe
maybe that is what they think of, is like essentially
an organized orgy.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Does kind of seem like it sounds that way, yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Like, and I'm I'm sure there are polycules of people
in which that can happen. Sure, but most of the time,
I believe it's just you have multiple partners and that
doesn't necessarily mean that you and your partners are dating
every other combination of partners. Somebody described it like a constellation,
(23:09):
where like sometimes you'll get actual triangles in the constellation
to make the shape, and sometimes they're just those little
like dangly branches where like this person single out there,
except they're dating like the one person in the polycule
over here, and that's you know, that's it.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
I got cha. Okay, Like a belt, right, Sometimes you're
in the middle of the belt. Sometimes you're connected to
other people.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Yeah, sometimes you're the dangly bit.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Sometimes you're a dangly bit. And before before we move
on to the next point, you and your you and
your wife. I think this is just something that I
think listeners would be interested in talking about. Did it
ever get complicated or were you ever like jealous of
the other person just throughout all of the dating.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
Yeah, So in terms of complication, it a lot of
it comes down to communication and also kind of making
the person feel special. So for communication, a lot of
times it's deciding what you don't tell somebody, not in
terms of like hiding things from them, but like what
(24:10):
things are told to you in confidence that you don't
tell to your partner. And that can get a little
complicated where you're like, I share everything typically, but I
know this doesn't want to get shared, and I know
that this is okay to say, but this is not
okay to say, and those lines get really blurry. I
would say that's that's one of the harder parts where
(24:32):
it gets complicated. Another thing is just like as simple
as oh my gosh, I'm going to pick up flowers
for everyone, and sitting there and you're like, I want
to get flowers for this person. I want to get
flowers for that person, and I don't want them to
feel as if I am just getting a group discount.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Okay, I did think about that, but I'm sure with
like Christmas coming up, if you're dating multiple partners, I'm
sure it's one of those it's like you probably feel
obligated to get something of similar worth of value to
everybody so that no one kind of feels like they're
they're the last branch.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Yeah, well, what do you do if both of your
partners like dark chocolate and flowers, like of the purple variety?
Like what do you do? Then it's like, ah, well,
what happens if they like all the same things?
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yeah, I got you, But then do they know I
guess do you tell them each They're like, yeah, I
got you these roses and chocolates. I also gave them
to you know, Patrece. Uh, Like, do you tell them
I guess that you got them each the same gift?
Or is it just like here's a gift. If they
find out about it, you can always talk about it,
or do you are you just open about I got
them the same gift?
Speaker 3 (25:40):
If it comes up, it comes up like otherwise, I
don't say anything. Yeah, it's just it's it's awkward kind
of either way.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
I mean, let's be honest. Like friends, I'll do the
same thing sometimes where like let's say I got a
little photo or a little picture of something that I
think is really cute. I got it framed, and then
maybe I want to give it to a couple different people.
It's yeah, it's just relationships. It's just convenient sometimes to
group by. So I don't think you should feel bad
about it.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Yeah, no, I convenience is just a word that hovers around.
It's like I could buy flowers for them now and
then come back, I guess, and buy flowers on a
separate run. It's not as if I was like, oh,
you were an afterthought. I decided to get extra flowers
just because why not. It's say, no, they like flowers,
(26:29):
and they like flowers, so I will get them both flowers.
And that's kind of hard to make that understood when
you're just like, here's flowers, and then they see the
same flowers.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
In the back your car or something.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Because at the store. So that's when I would get flowers, right,
I mean.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
I'm sure being polaramorous you have to talk all the
time with both partners, right, like just to make sure
that everyone's on the same boat, everyone's feeling okay about everything,
Like I guess that's what I want to talk about
with like jealousy and like drama that I'm sure that's
sort of an element right where it's like, yeah, I
got I get for this person's like you didn't get
one from me, or it's like okay, I got you
the same thing. Oh so I'm not special, Like I'm
(27:09):
sure it's like a lot of talking, because any one
relationship is a lot of work. So then juggling a couple,
I'm sure is just a lot of work, double the
amount of work.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Yeah, it's it's it really is. If you are conditioned
for monogamy, which basically everyone is, then polyamory is just
like playing hard mode. Like, man, I'm really good at
this one relationship. Mm hmmm, let's make this exponentially harder.
(27:42):
So and that is why I think a lot of
people probably shouldn't do it, because like, man, if you
can't get your one relationship right, then I don't think
adding another person into that mix is going to make
that stew any better.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Right.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
But I also like monogamy is still the hedgemon, so
that's what everybody does. And because of that, like we're
all conditioned to kind of be jealous. I mean every
piece of media you see is like I want that
person to be my one and only, like they're the
one singular person like your soulmate. Yeah. Really butters my
(28:18):
egg roll when I'm like watching a show and I'm
like and then they had this, they had this side
check or they were doing this and they cheated on me,
and I'm like, wow, seems like this could have been
really resolved if we just had a sit down conversation
and talked about opening up the relationship moving over to
the jealousy thing, like kind of already conditioned to be
(28:40):
jealous just now their societies are. But at the same time,
I think it's really weird as I look into human behavior,
like how weird monogamy is too. Humans as like, at
least as an animal, are kind of set up for
serial monogamy, which is like you have one partner and
then you with no space in between, move over to
(29:02):
the next partner. So like we're already set up for
multiple partners just over a period of time. And then
also like on a social level, you got a partner, Man,
I don't want my partner talking with somebody of the
other gender. Wow, that's jealousy. That's that's really weird. You know,
Like what I don't want them hanging out one on
(29:24):
one with somebody else. It's like okay, or like having
friends that are you know, female. You know, like, that's
that's really weird. That's that's really being jet you know
you'd call that person jealous. What do you say when
you don't want your partner dating somebody else? Oh, well,
that's just being monogamous.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
I see what you mean. It is like it's just
like stepping over a line that really is just like
a line that society is made.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
I mean you can also get into the whole, like
why do we have monogamy? Oh, that's easy. It's because
we want to know where the property is going. Like
when somebody dies, where does their property go? And if
you got multiple partners, man, does that get confusing? It's
like yeah, well, if you're married once and you have
the eldest kid like bam, that's who inherits the throne?
That might be I mean that might be a good
(30:09):
reason for like, man, why is polyamory becoming more and
more relevant today. Well the economy. Number one, who can
be straight and monogamous in this economy? Yeah? Who could
afford it? How many people are living in a single
Like two people live in this house? Get out of here.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Yeah, you can afford rent two people.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
We have a roommate and they're not even in our
like polycule.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
That's an interesting thought though, Yeah, who could afford him
to be monogamous?
Speaker 3 (30:39):
You also hear fun things like if we don't own property,
and we don't own a whole lot of things, and
we don't have a whole lot of money, like what
do I care where my you know, inheritance goes to.
Like so just open that, open that bad boy.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Yeah, it's an interesting thought for sure.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
I also hear some in the the opposite direction of
like raising kids, of like, oh, you know it's important
for kids to have like two parent household, Like that's
the most important. I'm like, well, if that's the case,
does like the child's quality of life go up exponentially
as we like include more parents, Like what if it
(31:14):
was a three parent household, that kid's gonna be doing
really well, aren't they?
Speaker 4 (31:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Actually, that's sort of the next one I wanted to
bring up with dating polyamory or dating polyamorous. Do you
expect to find another wife or husband for your partnership
or is that something that's even in the recesses of
your mind.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
No, it's in the recesses in my mind for sure,
Like is it something I expect to happen now? The
ideal scenario is always like friends with benefits. I think
it's pretty good. And to be perfectly honest, most people
that are out there looking for open relationships really don't
want kids.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah, but you want kids or do you want kids?
You and your wife?
Speaker 3 (32:19):
You know, everything, it's it's all open, it's up in
their who's to say, Yeah, there's so many Yeah, there's
so many things. There's there's fostering, there's adopting. You know,
much like the plurality of relationship types. You know that
you can have between like monogamous and you know, non monogamous.
It's like, well, how do you want to have kids.
(32:41):
It's like you could foster, you could adopt, you know biologically,
you know.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
You could even just be like another helper to a
friend that has a kid and just be like an
anti uncle kind of relationship.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you could be volunteering a lot of
time and you know, whatever youth organization is near you.
There's lots of ways to be a parent, just like
there's lots of ways to be a partner.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
So and one more question just about like looking towards
the future, do you ever think or have you fallen
in love or do you still see love the same
way with your other, with your polyamorous relationship or sorry,
your non primary relationships. Do you love any of them
or do you think you could be in love with
(33:27):
any of them? Or is it really more like man, yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
That is. I mean the first question would be, and
my wife and I go back on this all the time,
is like when did you know you were in love
with me? My wife has a very specific moment, and
I am like, man, I don't know. It's not that
I'm not in love with you, yeah, just that it's
sort of like a whole I liked you and we've
(33:58):
added a bunch of things to liking you, and I
guess that's equals love.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
It's like a video game, right where it's like your
level of like for them, just like I guess it's
it's not like anymore, it's love. I love you.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Yeah, as somebody who's like an I INTJ and gets
wet over Excel spreadsheets, Like I know it's I know
it's terrible to say, but I would make Excel spreadsheets
for dating if that were a doable option. Yeah, like
here tho.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
I mean you could, right if it helps you organize.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
I mean, I know I know people who have.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Isn't that the thing in sitcoms where they get the
whiteboard and they're like, all right, positive things that I
like about this person, the negative things, and.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
They, oh no, I first I won a hundred percent.
Did that in like, before deciding to date my wife,
I was like, all right, here's the list of candidates
that I would like to go on dates with that
are datable. Here are like attributes for each of them.
I because I love I love very solid, tangible, drawn
(35:00):
out things I like working in, and not the abstract,
very concrete. For a lot of people. That sounds callous
where you're like, you did what like this isn't love
isn't a math equation?
Speaker 2 (35:14):
I'm like, I know that, which is always the moral
in that sitcom episode. Yeah, it's like, I'm not a.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Whiteboard part of that is like, man, did I have
a type? Yep? Did I ever date that type?
Speaker 2 (35:29):
No?
Speaker 3 (35:29):
I have never dated the type that I am. Like,
you know, and they describe a person. I've never dated
that person, not even close.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Just been attracted to.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
Yeah, and you're like and it has never mattered, not
even once. Yeah, it's not an equation. But also I
like making it an equation.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
I mean, I think that's fine. So then with your
you don't have your algorithm obviously in front of you,
but do you think you ever could make an Excel
spreadsheet for another person to show you that honestly adorable
way to show that you love somebody. It's like, so
I I got a spreadsheet, and I took the time,
and I put in the columns and even the sub
sheets on the Excel. This is my declaration of love
(36:13):
for you. I suppose that they're the right person, They're
gonna think it's pretty sweet. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
If you look at column three, roka, you'll notice and
sell k one.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
You get like a you get like a.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Pellic that I have, in fact calculated a number.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
I love.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
It's imported into sheet number two. If you'll turn to
sheet number two and over here we have. Yeah, and
then it's like the value equals love. I love you.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Yeah, that's so imagining. How a power point you got
like a little like pointer stick on a big projector
this sounds adorable.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Yeah, how did we It's it's like when the teacher
asks you to show your work. I never did that,
and I always got in trouble. And now it's like
coming back where it's like show how you left me,
and I'm like, uh so there are two ways that
can go. Number one, I can start doing math.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
You look carefully on call. Number one. I bought you
hot dogs after work that one day because I just
thought about you.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
I thought you might like that over here on page
number three. Yeah, it was a monetary investment.
Speaker 5 (37:20):
Yeah, well no, I mean I guess I kind of
invested dollar amount and a time amount, and if we
take the time amount times the dollar amount plus the
like affection amount given you know, and the amount of
time you are on my mind, that all equals I
love you.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Yeah. That's so cute.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
Yes, what I'm trying to say is I love you.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Yeah mathematically, of course.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
In the most mathematical way.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Yeah, so it sounds like it's a potential.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
Then you.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Maybe not right now obviously, because like you said, you're
sort of like taking a little break from dating. But
that is a potential. You could fall in love with
another partner and then maybe become a lifelong partner, either
through marriage or just civil agreement or something.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
Yeah. I mean I'm not too like, I'm not looking
for it. I'm not really expecting it, And that would
be something that I'd be like, Oh, yeah, like we've
been dating for three years now, this is really convenient.
Do you just want to move in and make this
even more convenient? Do you want to file taxes jointly?
Get the government involved? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Right, that's the most that's the most romantic thing to do.
I guess it really just depends on what happens.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Yeah. The most matrimonial thing you can do. More important
than the ceremony, the giving it rings, it's when you
start filing taxes jointly.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
I mean, everyone expresses their affection differently. Maybe to somebody
it's taxes, yours is spreadsheets. Who the heck are you
to judge?
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Oh yeah, spread those sheets. But I pop in Microsoft
sex sell.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
That's pretty good. Ugh, that's pretty good. That might be
used somewhere in the promotion for this episode, Oh for sure,
real quick, because if you're cool with kind of wrapping up,
unless there's something else you wanted to bring up.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
I know another pro I was thinking of, Yeah, for sure.
One of the advantage of being polyamorous is like you
have a partner. They are literally your rock, like your
base point, and you can go out and explore and
take risks in terms of like things you wouldn't normally
(39:32):
do if you were single and like had a desire,
I'll be like, I've got to hook somebody, Like I've
got to find a catch, Like I have to find
another person. And having that impetus can make you like
a little bit more reserved, because like if you've got
a little bit of crazy in you and you're like,
I don't want to show them the fact that I
eat tater tot's cold out of the fridge, Like I
(39:56):
don't want to show them that, Like you're not going
to bring that up. And in my case, I'm already married,
Like what the fuck do I care give me.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Them cold toots? Maybe she's like pass them over here, I'll.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Yeah, And if yeah, and and if the person I'm
going on a date with is like Oh that's weird.
I'm like, oh, tough cookies. Like so like there's a
little bit you don't have as much of a like, man,
I've got to make this work because otherwise I'll be alone.
I'm like, it's more like go out there and have
(40:28):
fun if it doesn't work out, like you gave an
honest effort. And I think that's sort of an advantage
for polyamorous over monogamous. Is like, yeah, you're already in
a relationship, you've got you've still got a home, you've
still got like a partner, and you can always come
back and you're like, man, that date that was rough
(40:49):
or that didn't work out, or oh it was a success,
and they're like cool, that's awesome. You talk about it
as opposed to like if you're single and monogamous, like
you're either you know, with somebody and you're not going
out on dating or you know, you're trying to date
and you're like, man, I hope this goes well, because
if it doesn't, then like that's tough.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
That's true. It almost I mean maybe this is maybe
this is taking one step further or speculating, but it
could almost make an individual maybe a little more desperate
to make a couple of dates relationship work because they
don't have a person back home.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Yeah. I mean in terms of economics, like you look
at like, oh man, if you have capital already, you're
more likely to make you know, business investments that are dangerous,
but that can also have way better reap, way more rewards. Yeah,
because if it doesn't work out, you're not going to
be homeless. You've got money. And in the same way,
(41:43):
like if you have a partner, like you're going to
make some more risky decisions out in the dating field
because like, oh no, this relationship doesn't work out, Like
I have a home base, I have a you know,
a forever partner or your your main partner that like, yeah,
(42:04):
they're your ride or die if everything else falls apart,
you got them, and so you're you're more likely to,
I think, be a more honest self out there, take
more risks.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Yeah, I like that, take more risks. Speaking of risks,
I did want to mention just because we're kind of
wrapping up the end for advice for giving out to people,
I would assume getting tested regularly.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
For yeah, no sts, yes.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Sti's I couldn't remember. I don't really have to worry
about them with my orientation, but I remember that they changed.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
Yeah, I mean I think that's important in general. If
you're just sexually active, that's very true.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
If you're if you're sexually active, and if you're polyamorous,
yes always yeah, get get them tests.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
Because this is one of those things where like, oh,
believe it or not, your decisions have consequences, because when
you go out and you sleep with somebody, m hmm,
there's a potential that you bring back an STI and
then all of a sudden, it's not just your problem
in that other person's problem, Like you've brought it back
and you've made it your other partner's.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
Problem, right, and all of their partner's problems.
Speaker 3 (43:13):
Yeah, exactly. Oh you are, you are out there. You've
got to make sure for me, I am. You know,
I'm not looking to have kids, so I am just
like man, condoms number one importance. Even if sometimes even
if partner is like, oh, I'm on birth control, I'm like, hmmm,
for my conscience. It's not that I don't believe you,
(43:33):
but for my conscience, we're going to wrap it up.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
No, that's great because I know that's the you know,
the big stereotype for especially men not liking condoms. But
I'm glad you're being smart now, you're being smart about it.
To wrap it up, because yeah, it's especially going out.
You don't want to spread kids. You don't want to
spread the kids. Uh, and you don't want to catch
any diseases which you know could freaking hurt or kill
(43:56):
other people.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Yeah, And may I ask how frequently should you go
to get tested? Slash how frequently do you get tested?
Which I hope is the same answer.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
They're not the same answer because of like how freaking
picky and cheesy I am. Uh huh. It honestly depends
on how sectually active you are. Like, I don't have
a number in front of me. I don't even know
what like the CDC recommended number is with.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
The guidebooks, right, Yeah, to be fair, I don't do
test at all because I don't bang. But I don't
know whether it's like every session every night.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
Oh no, no, no, I would say once a month
is a pretty good thing if you are sleeping around
on the regular. This is also where spreadsheets come in handy.
I had a friend who all right, I shouldn't say
friend I knew someone who got an STI and they
(45:02):
had to figure out like, oh my gosh, who do
I need to call to tell that, like they need
to get checked up, and who did I get it from?
And they consulted the spreadsheet him in his roommates.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
Did they really have a spreadsheet?
Speaker 3 (45:16):
They found out yep, they found out who, and they,
you know, had all the contact information for all the
people that he slept with. And he called up everybody
after that person being like, hey, just so you know,
I found this out and you should get checked up.
And I was like, dang, that is another win for
(45:39):
Microsoft Excel or at least.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
A planner or something like that to keep track of.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
Yeah, it's like the healthy alternative to the Little Black Book,
Like like on one hand you have the like psychopath
who's like yes, another like another conquered, like you.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
Know, another night of intimate passion that I can recall.
Speaker 3 (45:59):
Yeah, yes, yes, the dentists from always sunny like creepy
record keeping. And then on like the healthy side, it's
somebody being like, you know this person, you know, here's
the contact information just in case I need to call
them up and tell them, like this was the date
this was the time, you know, And it's like a
it's like a medical journal.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
So I'm looking it up right now and I'm seeing
it varies on how sexually active you are, but I'm
seeing at least once a year for like HIV, gonorrhea, chlamydia,
but more frequently if you notice any symptoms is what
(46:41):
I'm kind of seeing overall. So at least once a
year more frequently. If you're you're no burning, itching, oozing
the pretty stuff to get to get tested, then I
I way over guessed, I think just because my mind
doesn't see sex is fun. In my mind, I see
(47:03):
it as a chore. So I'm thinking, like, oh, and
you gotta get a test like every time you have
sex or with a different partner. But no, that was
clearly an exaggeration from my own preconceived notion, So nevermind.
Is there any other advice that you would have for
individuals who are polyamorous or maybe it's something that's like
they're sort of thinking about or wrestling with inside of them.
(47:26):
You've obviously given a lot of great advice about communication
or making sure no one's left out and keeping track
of people you've slept with, But is there any other
advice you can think of.
Speaker 3 (47:37):
Yeah, it's polyamory is not easy. Like I said, it
is like just setting life to hard mode. If you
are really really excited about polyamory and you need a
grounding rod, I would head on over to like the
polyamory subreddits and stuff, because man, if everyone of those
is not a success story, is really depressing. How how
(48:03):
all of those are basically like, we tried and it
did not go well, and I you don't see success
stories there.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
Then I guess what would be the success story? Sorry,
the six sex story freud would be very happy right now,
the success story of like a bang a lot, it's
pretty great.
Speaker 3 (48:22):
Yeah, Like the success story would be like, man, you
got me saying it now. The seccess story would be like, yeah,
like we ran into this person, it worked out, and
now we're happily like married with them as are like
live in partner. I know somebody who's who's like that,
(48:43):
and and sometimes you know they'll have a partner move
and a partner move out, but you know they're polyamorous.
It works for them. But I don't hear a whole
lot of that, and probably for good reason. I'd be
willing to bet that that is not the majority of
polyamorous relationships. So if you're going into if you think
about polyamorous, I would head over there for a dose
of reality. You are fighting the odds, but that is
(49:05):
not to say that it doesn't work or can't work,
and being open to it is sort of the start
to just having a general mindset culturally that that is
an option. You know, that's something you can work on
in terms of like jealousy and boundaries and communication, which.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Is also good in any relationship. Yeah, between yeah, jealousy and.
Speaker 3 (49:27):
Yeah, once again, very good for any relationship. And just
always checking in with your partner every step of the
way is very important. We kind of had a hard
eject policy for ours, which was like, hey, the moment
this is this doesn't feel right, you just let me
know and we'll pull the ripcord. That was for my wife,
(49:52):
so you know, when it gets to be I don't
want it to get to be too much, you know,
I don't want to be a breaking point. It's just like, hey,
when this starts to be in comfortable, let me know,
like so that we can we can talk about it,
reevaluate and maybe just call it a you know, call
a break. Just what we're doing now.
Speaker 2 (50:08):
I love that. Yeah, that, like you said, that trust
with each other and then that communication of saying like, hey,
let's take a step back, let's get ourselves right, and
then when we're up for it, we'll get back in there. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:19):
Yeah. Another thing that I would say, definitely, and once again,
this isn't just with polyambory, this is just with a
lot of things, is like, don't do a whole lot
of comparisons. Like if you're talking about people, talk about them,
and don't don't be comparative between your one partner and
the other partner unless that's something that you're like really
(50:42):
comfortable and you've known them, I would say, for a
really long time and everybody's cool, you know, then you
can be like, well, yeah, like they do this a
lot better because nobody wants to hear that.
Speaker 2 (50:54):
Yeah. Yeah, that's that's an easy jealousy maker. I would
I would argue, I'd feel jealous.
Speaker 3 (51:00):
If you were like, man, I'm a little jealous, but
I can get through that. That's like taking gas and
being like okay, but how does it work now, and
then being like throwing gas on that fire and they're
like Okay, like I really have an issue with this
now for sure.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
So yeah, just like any relationship, because let's face it,
like polyamorous or being polly is just like regular dating.
You just got a couple more players in the game.
Speaker 3 (51:25):
Yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
Thank you so much, Chech for coming onto the podcast today.
This was really cool. I learned a lot, and hopefully
our listeners did too. Thank you so much, Chesch for
coming on to Ace of Hearts.
Speaker 3 (51:37):
No, I was gonna say thank you for coming.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
Thank you my good friend Chesh for coming onto our show.
That was so interesting. I loved hearing how Chesh thought
about dating, and it was so cool to hear sometimes
he approaches his love life more logically. I think sometimes,
because we get these feelings of like affection and life,
(52:00):
it can almost feel like love is its own sense
of like magic and wonder. But sometimes it's good to
take a step back and think about it logically. So
I thought that was a really interesting thing and maybe
something that I might keep in mind in the future
if I like somebody, you know, to try to be
smart before jumping into a big relationship. I hope you
did a little bit of laughing, learning and loving with
(52:21):
me today again. Thank you so much to Matt Langston
from the Jelly Rocks for letting us use their song Glued.
You can find the song down below, or if you're
looking for more of their work, I freaking love them.
If you love what you hear, feel free to leave
a review or a rating, And if you think you
have a perspective or story to tell, please send us
(52:44):
an email. Please come back next week for some unconventional
love stories, and remember, don't keep your cards too close
to your chest or you'll never open up to some
new hands. Have a great day and we'll see you
real soon.
Speaker 3 (53:00):
Mind can be saved.
Speaker 2 (53:04):
All night, not thin.
Speaker 4 (53:09):
Keep my hand side
Hello, my King's, Queen's and in between's. Welcome to Ace
of Hearts, a dating podcast from every perspective. My name
is Maddie and I am your host for any first
timers here. Ace of Hearts is a dating podcast where I,
the naive asexual that I am, talk to people with
(00:23):
an assortment of different backgrounds about.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Their dating life. And before we continue, I just always
like to state this, we at Ace of Hearts have
no intention of generalizing any lifestyle, race, gender, disability, etc.
Our desire is to hear love stories or maybe sometimes
horror stories from people who don't always get the spotlights.
(00:50):
Every person is unique and so is their story. And
today we're going to be talking with my good friend Sheesh. Sheesh.
Would you like to introduce yourself?
Speaker 3 (01:00):
Chesh, and I am polyamorous.
Speaker 2 (01:18):
Size May I say, are you in a relationship at
the moment? Are you in multiple relationships?
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Yeah? Yeah, I'm married, but we are I think colloquially
in an open relationship. That doesn't necessarily mean seeing anybody
right now, but open to the idea of stuff.
Speaker 2 (01:43):
Let me just say, like real quick, I just want
to talk about this. I think before the term polyamorous
was probably used. People would probably end up saying you're
not polyamorous, you're in an open relationship. Would would you
like kind of agree with that kind of mentality.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Yeah, I feel like that's an older, an older term
that people were just like, yeah, they're in an open relationship.
I feel like before that people just were like lumping
everything in with swingers.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
Yeah, I know that's true. That was probably the saying
a good couple decades ago. But I'd like to think
the world is slowly, slowly adapting and changing for the better.
So when did you figure out that you were polyamorous
or that this was a part of who you were?
Speaker 3 (02:26):
I think a lot of it is just starting off.
Like my wife and I always said to each other that,
like nothing's completely off the table without like talking over it,
you know, coming together and determining whether or not we
wanted to do something. So open marriage kind of in
all regards one of those being other partners as well. So,
(02:47):
but definition were open to anything, open to talking about
it at the very least. Yeah, when we were dating,
she had a really high sex drive and I did not,
and that was really weird, especially as soon as we
got married. Our sex drives like immediately flipped. I suddenly
(03:10):
had a very high sex drive and she did not,
So there was a weird dynamic and like trying to
figure ourselves out. Like after a few years we were like, okay,
we'd always said being open as on the table, I
like to have sex, and she was like, yeah, let's
let's just go for it. And so we started getting
(03:30):
on dating.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Apps okay and rough Bullpark. How old were you guys.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
When you two got married mid twenties.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
I mean, I honestly, I think that's very interesting because
some people know what orientation they are at such a
younger age, and some people like take some time to
figure it out. I don't think I called myself a
sexual until I was like twenty five, because I well, A,
I hadn't heard of the term until I was in
my mid twenties. But also, like sometimes you just hear
(04:00):
the terminologies or the right puzzle pieces just kind of click.
You had a very low sex drive when you were
younger I assumed teenager, early twenties, and yeah, you just
didn't really want to have sex with anybody, not just
your girlfriend, just nobody, no sex for nobody.
Speaker 3 (04:17):
Yeah. I think part of that was I on top
of a very conservative family.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Ah no, I completely understand that.
Speaker 3 (04:25):
I also was just doing other things all the time,
Like I don't think I had the energy for sex,
like all that sexual energy that people have. I was
doing every sport, every activity I could get my hands on.
And when you're that busy, like you get up, you
do stuff all day, and then you go to bed
just exhausted. And I did that for my entire life.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
I think maybe that was your parents plan as well
of trying to keep you out of trouble. I suppose
they would probably say.
Speaker 3 (04:57):
Oh it worked. If that was their goal was to
to keep me pure till marriage, then man, they nailed that.
Yeah you know, then you got to work over time afterwards.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
Work over Oh I got you. Yeah, you're making up
for lost time now.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Oh yeah. It's something I feel like I see a
lot of people who are raised in more conservative families
double double up all the things that they were missing out.
So like, nobody talks more about sex than young conservative
married couples that didn't get to talk about sex when
they were sixteen.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Yeah, it's almost like a freedom, I guess, right where
beforehand you're almost kind of constricted under a very conservative
lifestyle family kind of very much over your shoulder a
lot with asking you to do all these activities. And
then once you had like the time, the constraints were lifted.
Oh yeah, I can talk about this, I can think
about this, I can actually do these things.
Speaker 3 (05:53):
Yeah. Even you're kind of given permission. So even if
you are still conservative yourself, there's this cool nature. Now
I have permission to do this, and it's it's actually
not that big of a deal, which is why I
can talk about it so openly.
Speaker 2 (06:09):
Oh man, I didn't even think about it like that.
You're still constrained. Now you're with the cool kids table.
Now I can talk about sex.
Speaker 3 (06:17):
Yeah, it really is that. Like you look at famous
there's a famous megachurch pastor who basically got famous because
he was like the one guy that openly talked about sex.
And man, did that just shoot him right to like
the top of popularity.
Speaker 2 (06:32):
Now was this like was he marketing to young adults?
Speaker 3 (06:36):
No? Absolutely going for like the young single ready to
mingle for the lord of course religious crowd.
Speaker 2 (06:46):
Are are you religious? Chesh?
Speaker 3 (06:49):
I went to Bible college, raised in a super conservative family,
and even worked as a youth pastor so like, not
until recently have I even been open and about like, yeah, no,
I'm not really like religious anymore, but man, do I
have a lot of knowledge and experience with religious stuff
(07:10):
right when?
Speaker 2 (07:11):
You wouldn't consider yourself a Christian at this point? Or
is that still something you're still thinking about?
Speaker 3 (07:15):
Nah? I think I think it's pretty safe to say
I wouldn't consider myself a Christian anymore.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
So, you and your wife, you were married for a
couple of years before you started to date openly. Write
three four years.
Speaker 3 (07:26):
Into it or was it five years into it?
Speaker 2 (07:29):
Okay, still pretty new into the relationship.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Yeah. Yeah. So we actually had two people talk to
us about polyamory beforehand, not people who were into polyamory,
but people who were just advising us about it before
we got married. One of them said like, hey, from
a conservative Christian, no less, what you do in the
bedroom is your own business. Just you know, be careful.
(07:55):
I was like, dang, not the person I thought I
was going to get that advice from.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
And was recommending like an open relationship.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Yeah. I mean I wouldn't say they recommended it, but
it definitely sounded like they were like, hey, look, that's
you know, whatever's your business is your business. It didn't
sound like they were condemning it.
Speaker 2 (08:14):
Yeah, Honestly, that's kind of cool to find someone because
I know religion, especially mass religion, can seem so overbearing
and judgmental and critical. So it's very cool to find
someone still in the community that is open minded.
Speaker 3 (08:26):
Yeah. I think I think their case was a little
bit specific to them. They were a relationship expert in
the Christian field, if you will, okay for them, I
think they've seen enough go wrong because of issues and
because of people not opening themselves up to things like
polyamory if it's not work, and like, I'm not going
(08:48):
to give you the completely impossible expectation of like just
you know, stay on the straight monogamous path, like.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
You stay on that path, you Christian boy.
Speaker 3 (09:01):
If ay man, if it isn't work, and just just
keep chugging along and doing the same thing over and
over again, certainly it will right itself.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
But I like that idea though, of if something's not
working in your relationship, figure it out, talk about it,
open yourself up to communication, which is exactly what you
and your wife did. You open yourself up to talk
about what exactly wasn't working.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
Yeah, and as much as I fought against, like, man,
I don't want to be the stereotypical guy here, but
like that's how the story ends up happening. Like I
really liked having sex, and she was like, I mean
I could take it or leave it.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
You were horny. I've met your wife. I can't say
I can't say I exactly know how she feels because
I know she's she's also a horny lady. But hey,
if you're horny and you want to get it, you
get it. So I'd love to talk about the first date,
or at least a date that you remember when you
(09:58):
first started to date as polyamory, when you first started
to date as a married man to third parties.
Speaker 3 (10:06):
To be honest, I'm a very picky person. Even though
I went into this with the expectations of like, yeah,
I'm gonna go in ultimately this is about having sex
kind of, I still have a lot of hang ups
I'm going to this. I'm like, yes, one night stands
that don't mean anything. I'm like, I can't do that.
(10:27):
I need like I'm regardless of what happens, I'm about
to be like, and you're a middle child, and that's
so cool. Like I'm gonna just got I'm gonna be
talking with somebody and like stumble my way into like
meeting their family somehow by accident, Like that would be
that would be my luck. I just I really I
find that so cute.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Man, I really want to be a folk boy, but
dang it, I just it seems really cool and I
wanted another family. I just love that, and I think
that's very sweet.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Yeah, I just love Like every time I would go
on a date, I was very clearly wait, like getting
to know people is a turn on. I like getting
to know people. Okay, you know personality. Looks are important,
obviously looks are important, but I like I realize I'm
(11:17):
also like I really like a good conversation. Yeah, and
one night stands where you're like literally showing up banging
one out and then bouncing just doesn't.
Speaker 2 (11:27):
Doesn't do it for you. Yeah, that does an interest to.
Speaker 3 (11:30):
Like I think that in my head that that's what
how things were going to go. Yeah, and that was
not the case. Like I was like, oh no, because
like I'm a detailed person also where I'm like we
got to figure this out, Like all right, they got
to know that, I'm at The word I was using
at the time was consensually non monogamous.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
Okay, so you weren't You weren't calling yourself Polly at
that time, No, because.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
The idea wasn't exactly to have a consistent partner if
you will, is just kind of be dating around and
if I happen to find somebody that, you know, we
could hook up on the regular, have a good friendship
relationship with, you know, by definition the friends with benefits,
(12:12):
that would be awesome, but overall weuld just use consensually
non monogamous was the term we were running with.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Yeah, the ones on the dating app.
Speaker 3 (12:20):
Yeah, So it'd be on dating apps and be like,
all right, I'm coosentially non monogamous, have that upfront in
my profile. And then people got to be aware of that,
and most people, I guess, I don't know if they
just wouldn't read the profile or had no idea what
it is. And I'm like, yeah, like, I'm married consentually
not monogamous. That means I have a partner that I'm
married to. And a lot of times you get people
(12:42):
that would dip their toe into conversation and be like ooh,
like it would be really awesome to hook up with you,
but also that's kind of weird for me. I don't
know if I'm if I can do that all right,
Like you're single and I'm available, yeah, and we would
just be hooking up like this isn't like a thing
and that weird to out, Okay, but I.
Speaker 2 (13:03):
Can understand, especially the environment that you're in because you
live in a I guess I don't we don't need
to give away cities, but you're in South Carolina, which
isn't really known for being very open minded to racial
diversity and LGBTQ diversity in general.
Speaker 3 (13:21):
If for stereotyping, oh yeah, it's uh, it's it's not
a great scene. There are decent amount of colleges, but
if you're out of the college range, like yeah, not
exactly a young and single area.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Yeah, and not always the most open minded I would
say area too.
Speaker 3 (13:40):
Yeah, Like if you're not in college, all the people
that are looking to date are already divorced, pretty much
all almost all the people that I was going on
dates with were people that had gotten married and were
already divorced. And then I would be like, oh yeah,
like essentially non monogamous. Here's my situation, and they'd be like, well,
why don't you just get divorced? And I'm like, cause,
(14:04):
because I don't want.
Speaker 2 (14:05):
To, because I still love my wife.
Speaker 3 (14:07):
Yeah, because I still love my wife and we're really
good together. Like I'm not about to let one small
issue like ruin all of that. You know, the whole
point of consensual non monogamy is to like aid with
the rest of this.
Speaker 2 (14:23):
Like, yeah, exactly, and clearly it's someone who sees your
situation and thinks like, oh, well, then it's not working.
But no, like a relationship isn't just sex. There's so
much more. Sex is just an aspect about it. Any
I guess for these divorce as anyways, they just don't
see it that way. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (14:39):
It's like, hey, do you ever have like a friend
that you play a sport with because you really enjoy
like hanging out with them and playing that sport And
maybe your partner doesn't play that sport. Maybe they don't
play I don't know, rugby. Yeah, and I don't necessarily
expect them to sort of a niche field. Your partner
(15:01):
isn't going to be the everything you have friends, right,
you do things with those friends that you wouldn't with
your spouse. This is just adding sex into that and
not just sex, but like you know, dating as a
whole exactly.
Speaker 2 (15:13):
Yeah, you're right, You're sorry. Sorry if I took it
down like a peg on like emotional intimacy by saying
just sex. Sorry if that was on me.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Oh no, no, I do nothing of it.
Speaker 2 (15:23):
But I'd love to hear if you have any very
specific stories from some of the individuals you said, there's
some people who just kind of judge. Honestly, it sounds
like over over the dating apps. Any other interesting I
guess impressions or stories you can you can remember.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Yeah, So there was one where I was hooking up
with this girl and she was like also wavering the
halfway point between I do want to know more about you,
but also I don't want to know any details because
it's really weird that you're married.
Speaker 2 (15:56):
That's not a conversation I can imagine too. This girl's
being like, how's your family?
Speaker 1 (16:00):
No?
Speaker 2 (16:00):
Wait, sorry, how's your do you have any pets? Wait?
I shouldn't know that, like just all just like wavering
back and forth of.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
I was like, you can ask, I'll tell Like I'd
be like, Okay, here's the end. They're like, don't actually
you know what, don't tell me I don't.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Want all right, Yeah, that is so interesting.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
But then on the other hand, there was there was
actually a good one. I found somebody who was also
in an open relationship. I should preface with I do
understand now why open relationships are seen as weird and
(16:38):
a bit cringey, because most people who are in open
relationships are trying to fix a failing relationship. Not everyone obviously, gotcha.
Speaker 2 (16:51):
I would argue that is probably the biggest mindset people
think of when they hear open relationship. They probably think, oh,
that relationship's going down the toilet. This is like a
last day effort to save it.
Speaker 3 (17:01):
Yeah, because it's I mean, I would say, the same
thing can be had with like kids.
Speaker 2 (17:05):
Oh, that's a good point.
Speaker 3 (17:07):
There are a lot of people. Obviously, not everybody who
has a kid is trying to fix their marriage by
having a kid with their partner. But man, do I
know a lot of people that are that have children
because they were like, it's that or divorce. Some of
the people I've run into that were like, well, why
(17:27):
don't you just go divorced over this issue of sex.
That's what they had done. How was your relationship with
your married partner at the time, and they were like
it was good, but the sex issue we just could
not get over where I wanted to have sex all
the time and they did not, So we got a
divorce any other problems And they were like not really,
(17:50):
dang that is I mean, I guess, do what you
gotta do, but maybe give polyamory a try first, yeah,
or at least.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Like communication is so important in any relationship that it
really does does seem like almost like a shame that
that was the one flaw that they just couldn't seem
to talk about or be more open minded.
Speaker 3 (18:08):
I guess there are so many things that you could
say for marriage, like the communication, communication, communication, but almost
all that can be said for any relationship, Like, there's
so few things that can be said for marriage that
are specific to marriage and couldn't just be said for
like relationships in general.
Speaker 2 (18:26):
A business relationship, yeah, freaking pr relationships, it's yeah. Communication.
Speaker 3 (18:33):
That being said, there was another open relationship that I
found somebody else and I started dating them and like, oh,
so don't really need to talk about our partners too much.
It was a little bit interesting because in this case,
both my wife and I had stumbled across them on tender.
Speaker 2 (18:58):
Okay, so you were both dating this person, yes, okay.
Speaker 3 (19:03):
And completely by accident to start. Yeah, but we both
were like, so, I'm going on a date with so
and so, and I'm like, that is also a person
I am talking to right now.
Speaker 2 (19:15):
Oh my gosh. Were you guys cool with it upfront?
Speaker 3 (19:18):
Yeah? Upfront it was really good. My wife was like,
you know, I'm not really ready to date, but like,
hanging out's fine. I really like having this person as
a friend. I was like, cool, I'm probably going to
date them, And so we did for a while. Three
of us would like cooked up a couple of times,
but most of the time it was just this person
I was dating and myself, you know. And then they
(19:40):
still had their other primary partner, and they also had
a few partners that they would kind of hook up
on the side occasionally.
Speaker 2 (19:48):
And you were and obviously you're married to your wife.
Would you consider this other person your other partner, your
your girlfriend or boyfriend?
Speaker 3 (19:55):
Yeah, they were non binary, but for the purpose of
non confusion, birrelfriend isn't exactly a great word. What'd you
call it?
Speaker 2 (20:02):
A birlfriend? So that's a girl boyfriend. I don't think
i've heard of burrel friends.
Speaker 3 (20:07):
Oh my gosh, there are so many non binary names
for relationships and they're all terrible. I don't know if
you know this, but but NBI's love frogs.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
You know what I know? Gen Z's love frogs.
Speaker 3 (20:21):
Yeah. So I've known for a while that, uh, the
queer community loves frogs. I have never understood why until
I started dating this person, and then it became very clear.
It's because frogs are like gender fluid.
Speaker 2 (20:36):
Okay, I feel like I might have.
Speaker 3 (20:38):
Known that frogs can just be whatever they need to be, you.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Know, so can like worms though, But I guess frogs
are cute.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
Yeah, I mean frogs are very memorable. Yeah. The moment
that I put that all together and I was like, oh, oh,
that's why they're turning all the frogs gay. Now it
makes sense.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
All the frogs they're ag Yeah. Yeah, oh, I had
no idea. See, I'm learning That's that was a part
of doing this podcast. I wanted to learn. Sorry, we
got distracted my frogs. Uh, but that's so interesting. I
had no idea that that's like a huge like I
kind of like the of the queer community anyways, But
(21:18):
I did want to talk about something I think we
kind of got distracted away from. You said at one
point you and your wife were dating the same person.
Did that involve threesomes or was it totally practically separate
relationships you and your wife were having with this third person.
Speaker 3 (21:33):
Oh hell yeah. If you can imagine, it went in
reverse order, where like the threesomes happened first, and then
everything kind of pittered out. My wife was like, eh,
I think I'm good. And then me and my girlfriend
continued dating on our own, and we'd hang out from
time to time, all three of us, you know, play
(21:55):
some disc golf, watch a movie.
Speaker 2 (21:57):
But threesomes were never really the goal. It was a
sort of a funny little accident that you both were
dating the same person.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
Literally, a funny little accident where we were dating the
same person. We're all lying in bed together, like, uh,
you know, hanging out watching something, We're on our phones.
Next thing you know, we're getting handsy and we're like, ah,
that was so weird. This will never happen again. Literally,
the next time we were all hanging out.
Speaker 2 (22:24):
Okay, cool, No, I mean it's it's interesting you know
that can that is a part of the polyamorers lifestyle.
Feel like a lot of people think about threesomes as
that's the goal, but that was just sort of a
fun thing that happened in between it all.
Speaker 3 (22:37):
Yeah, And I guess when people think about Polly, maybe
maybe that is what they think of, is like essentially
an organized orgy.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
Does kind of seem like it sounds that way, yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:47):
Like, and I'm I'm sure there are polycules of people
in which that can happen. Sure, but most of the time,
I believe it's just you have multiple partners and that
doesn't necessarily mean that you and your partners are dating
every other combination of partners. Somebody described it like a constellation,
(23:09):
where like sometimes you'll get actual triangles in the constellation
to make the shape, and sometimes they're just those little
like dangly branches where like this person single out there,
except they're dating like the one person in the polycule
over here, and that's you know, that's it.
Speaker 2 (23:24):
I got cha. Okay, Like a belt, right, Sometimes you're
in the middle of the belt. Sometimes you're connected to
other people.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Yeah, sometimes you're the dangly bit.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Sometimes you're a dangly bit. And before before we move
on to the next point, you and your you and
your wife. I think this is just something that I
think listeners would be interested in talking about. Did it
ever get complicated or were you ever like jealous of
the other person just throughout all of the dating.
Speaker 3 (23:48):
Yeah, So in terms of complication, it a lot of
it comes down to communication and also kind of making
the person feel special. So for communication, a lot of
times it's deciding what you don't tell somebody, not in
terms of like hiding things from them, but like what
(24:10):
things are told to you in confidence that you don't
tell to your partner. And that can get a little
complicated where you're like, I share everything typically, but I
know this doesn't want to get shared, and I know
that this is okay to say, but this is not
okay to say, and those lines get really blurry. I
would say that's that's one of the harder parts where
(24:32):
it gets complicated. Another thing is just like as simple
as oh my gosh, I'm going to pick up flowers
for everyone, and sitting there and you're like, I want
to get flowers for this person. I want to get
flowers for that person, and I don't want them to
feel as if I am just getting a group discount.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
Okay, I did think about that, but I'm sure with
like Christmas coming up, if you're dating multiple partners, I'm
sure it's one of those it's like you probably feel
obligated to get something of similar worth of value to
everybody so that no one kind of feels like they're
they're the last branch.
Speaker 3 (25:07):
Yeah, well, what do you do if both of your
partners like dark chocolate and flowers, like of the purple variety?
Like what do you do? Then it's like, ah, well,
what happens if they like all the same things?
Speaker 2 (25:19):
Yeah, I got you, But then do they know I
guess do you tell them each They're like, yeah, I
got you these roses and chocolates. I also gave them
to you know, Patrece. Uh, Like, do you tell them
I guess that you got them each the same gift?
Or is it just like here's a gift. If they
find out about it, you can always talk about it,
or do you are you just open about I got
them the same gift?
Speaker 3 (25:40):
If it comes up, it comes up like otherwise, I
don't say anything. Yeah, it's just it's it's awkward kind
of either way.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
I mean, let's be honest. Like friends, I'll do the
same thing sometimes where like let's say I got a
little photo or a little picture of something that I
think is really cute. I got it framed, and then
maybe I want to give it to a couple different people.
It's yeah, it's just relationships. It's just convenient sometimes to
group by. So I don't think you should feel bad
about it.
Speaker 3 (26:05):
Yeah, no, I convenience is just a word that hovers around.
It's like I could buy flowers for them now and
then come back, I guess, and buy flowers on a
separate run. It's not as if I was like, oh,
you were an afterthought. I decided to get extra flowers
just because why not. It's say, no, they like flowers,
(26:29):
and they like flowers, so I will get them both flowers.
And that's kind of hard to make that understood when
you're just like, here's flowers, and then they see the
same flowers.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
In the back your car or something.
Speaker 3 (26:42):
Because at the store. So that's when I would get flowers, right,
I mean.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
I'm sure being polaramorous you have to talk all the
time with both partners, right, like just to make sure
that everyone's on the same boat, everyone's feeling okay about everything,
Like I guess that's what I want to talk about
with like jealousy and like drama that I'm sure that's
sort of an element right where it's like, yeah, I
got I get for this person's like you didn't get
one from me, or it's like okay, I got you
the same thing. Oh so I'm not special, Like I'm
(27:09):
sure it's like a lot of talking, because any one
relationship is a lot of work. So then juggling a couple,
I'm sure is just a lot of work, double the
amount of work.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
Yeah, it's it's it really is. If you are conditioned
for monogamy, which basically everyone is, then polyamory is just
like playing hard mode. Like, man, I'm really good at
this one relationship. Mm hmmm, let's make this exponentially harder.
(27:42):
So and that is why I think a lot of
people probably shouldn't do it, because like, man, if you
can't get your one relationship right, then I don't think
adding another person into that mix is going to make
that stew any better.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Right.
Speaker 3 (27:56):
But I also like monogamy is still the hedgemon, so
that's what everybody does. And because of that, like we're
all conditioned to kind of be jealous. I mean every
piece of media you see is like I want that
person to be my one and only, like they're the
one singular person like your soulmate. Yeah. Really butters my
(28:18):
egg roll when I'm like watching a show and I'm
like and then they had this, they had this side
check or they were doing this and they cheated on me,
and I'm like, wow, seems like this could have been
really resolved if we just had a sit down conversation
and talked about opening up the relationship moving over to
the jealousy thing, like kind of already conditioned to be
(28:40):
jealous just now their societies are. But at the same time,
I think it's really weird as I look into human behavior,
like how weird monogamy is too. Humans as like, at
least as an animal, are kind of set up for
serial monogamy, which is like you have one partner and
then you with no space in between, move over to
(29:02):
the next partner. So like we're already set up for
multiple partners just over a period of time. And then
also like on a social level, you got a partner, Man,
I don't want my partner talking with somebody of the
other gender. Wow, that's jealousy. That's that's really weird. You know,
Like what I don't want them hanging out one on
(29:24):
one with somebody else. It's like okay, or like having
friends that are you know, female. You know, like, that's
that's really weird. That's that's really being jet you know
you'd call that person jealous. What do you say when
you don't want your partner dating somebody else? Oh, well,
that's just being monogamous.
Speaker 2 (29:41):
I see what you mean. It is like it's just
like stepping over a line that really is just like
a line that society is made.
Speaker 3 (29:47):
I mean you can also get into the whole, like
why do we have monogamy? Oh, that's easy. It's because
we want to know where the property is going. Like
when somebody dies, where does their property go? And if
you got multiple partners, man, does that get confusing? It's
like yeah, well, if you're married once and you have
the eldest kid like bam, that's who inherits the throne?
That might be I mean that might be a good
(30:09):
reason for like, man, why is polyamory becoming more and
more relevant today. Well the economy. Number one, who can
be straight and monogamous in this economy? Yeah? Who could
afford it? How many people are living in a single
Like two people live in this house? Get out of here.
Speaker 2 (30:27):
Yeah, you can afford rent two people.
Speaker 3 (30:29):
We have a roommate and they're not even in our
like polycule.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
That's an interesting thought though, Yeah, who could afford him
to be monogamous?
Speaker 3 (30:39):
You also hear fun things like if we don't own property,
and we don't own a whole lot of things, and
we don't have a whole lot of money, like what
do I care where my you know, inheritance goes to.
Like so just open that, open that bad boy.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
Yeah, it's an interesting thought for sure.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
I also hear some in the the opposite direction of
like raising kids, of like, oh, you know it's important
for kids to have like two parent household, Like that's
the most important. I'm like, well, if that's the case,
does like the child's quality of life go up exponentially
as we like include more parents, Like what if it
(31:14):
was a three parent household, that kid's gonna be doing
really well, aren't they?
Speaker 4 (31:18):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (31:44):
Actually, that's sort of the next one I wanted to
bring up with dating polyamory or dating polyamorous. Do you
expect to find another wife or husband for your partnership
or is that something that's even in the recesses of
your mind.
Speaker 3 (31:59):
No, it's in the recesses in my mind for sure,
Like is it something I expect to happen now? The
ideal scenario is always like friends with benefits. I think
it's pretty good. And to be perfectly honest, most people
that are out there looking for open relationships really don't
want kids.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Yeah, but you want kids or do you want kids?
You and your wife?
Speaker 3 (32:19):
You know, everything, it's it's all open, it's up in
their who's to say, Yeah, there's so many Yeah, there's
so many things. There's there's fostering, there's adopting. You know,
much like the plurality of relationship types. You know that
you can have between like monogamous and you know, non monogamous.
It's like, well, how do you want to have kids.
(32:41):
It's like you could foster, you could adopt, you know biologically,
you know.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
You could even just be like another helper to a
friend that has a kid and just be like an
anti uncle kind of relationship.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, you could be volunteering a lot of
time and you know, whatever youth organization is near you.
There's lots of ways to be a parent, just like
there's lots of ways to be a partner.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
So and one more question just about like looking towards
the future, do you ever think or have you fallen
in love or do you still see love the same
way with your other, with your polyamorous relationship or sorry,
your non primary relationships. Do you love any of them
or do you think you could be in love with
(33:27):
any of them? Or is it really more like man, yeah.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
That is. I mean the first question would be, and
my wife and I go back on this all the time,
is like when did you know you were in love
with me? My wife has a very specific moment, and
I am like, man, I don't know. It's not that
I'm not in love with you, yeah, just that it's
sort of like a whole I liked you and we've
(33:58):
added a bunch of things to liking you, and I
guess that's equals love.
Speaker 2 (34:02):
It's like a video game, right where it's like your
level of like for them, just like I guess it's
it's not like anymore, it's love. I love you.
Speaker 3 (34:09):
Yeah, as somebody who's like an I INTJ and gets
wet over Excel spreadsheets, Like I know it's I know
it's terrible to say, but I would make Excel spreadsheets
for dating if that were a doable option. Yeah, like
here tho.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
I mean you could, right if it helps you organize.
Speaker 3 (34:29):
I mean, I know I know people who have.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Isn't that the thing in sitcoms where they get the
whiteboard and they're like, all right, positive things that I
like about this person, the negative things, and.
Speaker 3 (34:39):
They, oh no, I first I won a hundred percent.
Did that in like, before deciding to date my wife,
I was like, all right, here's the list of candidates
that I would like to go on dates with that
are datable. Here are like attributes for each of them.
I because I love I love very solid, tangible, drawn
(35:00):
out things I like working in, and not the abstract,
very concrete. For a lot of people. That sounds callous
where you're like, you did what like this isn't love
isn't a math equation?
Speaker 2 (35:14):
I'm like, I know that, which is always the moral
in that sitcom episode. Yeah, it's like, I'm not a.
Speaker 3 (35:20):
Whiteboard part of that is like, man, did I have
a type? Yep? Did I ever date that type?
Speaker 2 (35:29):
No?
Speaker 3 (35:29):
I have never dated the type that I am. Like,
you know, and they describe a person. I've never dated
that person, not even close.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Just been attracted to.
Speaker 3 (35:39):
Yeah, and you're like and it has never mattered, not
even once. Yeah, it's not an equation. But also I
like making it an equation.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
I mean, I think that's fine. So then with your
you don't have your algorithm obviously in front of you,
but do you think you ever could make an Excel
spreadsheet for another person to show you that honestly adorable
way to show that you love somebody. It's like, so
I I got a spreadsheet, and I took the time,
and I put in the columns and even the sub
sheets on the Excel. This is my declaration of love
(36:13):
for you. I suppose that they're the right person, They're
gonna think it's pretty sweet. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (36:16):
If you look at column three, roka, you'll notice and
sell k one.
Speaker 2 (36:22):
You get like a you get like a.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Pellic that I have, in fact calculated a number.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
I love.
Speaker 3 (36:30):
It's imported into sheet number two. If you'll turn to
sheet number two and over here we have. Yeah, and
then it's like the value equals love. I love you.
Speaker 2 (36:41):
Yeah, that's so imagining. How a power point you got
like a little like pointer stick on a big projector
this sounds adorable.
Speaker 3 (36:49):
Yeah, how did we It's it's like when the teacher
asks you to show your work. I never did that,
and I always got in trouble. And now it's like
coming back where it's like show how you left me,
and I'm like, uh so there are two ways that
can go. Number one, I can start doing math.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
You look carefully on call. Number one. I bought you
hot dogs after work that one day because I just
thought about you.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
I thought you might like that over here on page
number three. Yeah, it was a monetary investment.
Speaker 5 (37:20):
Yeah, well no, I mean I guess I kind of
invested dollar amount and a time amount, and if we
take the time amount times the dollar amount plus the
like affection amount given you know, and the amount of
time you are on my mind, that all equals I
love you.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Yeah. That's so cute.
Speaker 3 (37:43):
Yes, what I'm trying to say is I love you.
Speaker 2 (37:46):
Yeah mathematically, of course.
Speaker 3 (37:49):
In the most mathematical way.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
Yeah, so it sounds like it's a potential.
Speaker 3 (37:53):
Then you.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Maybe not right now obviously, because like you said, you're
sort of like taking a little break from dating. But
that is a potential. You could fall in love with
another partner and then maybe become a lifelong partner, either
through marriage or just civil agreement or something.
Speaker 3 (38:09):
Yeah. I mean I'm not too like, I'm not looking
for it. I'm not really expecting it, And that would
be something that I'd be like, Oh, yeah, like we've
been dating for three years now, this is really convenient.
Do you just want to move in and make this
even more convenient? Do you want to file taxes jointly?
Get the government involved? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Right, that's the most that's the most romantic thing to do.
I guess it really just depends on what happens.
Speaker 3 (38:36):
Yeah. The most matrimonial thing you can do. More important
than the ceremony, the giving it rings, it's when you
start filing taxes jointly.
Speaker 2 (38:45):
I mean, everyone expresses their affection differently. Maybe to somebody
it's taxes, yours is spreadsheets. Who the heck are you
to judge?
Speaker 3 (38:54):
Oh yeah, spread those sheets. But I pop in Microsoft
sex sell.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
That's pretty good. Ugh, that's pretty good. That might be
used somewhere in the promotion for this episode, Oh for sure,
real quick, because if you're cool with kind of wrapping up,
unless there's something else you wanted to bring up.
Speaker 3 (39:12):
I know another pro I was thinking of, Yeah, for sure.
One of the advantage of being polyamorous is like you
have a partner. They are literally your rock, like your
base point, and you can go out and explore and
take risks in terms of like things you wouldn't normally
(39:32):
do if you were single and like had a desire,
I'll be like, I've got to hook somebody, Like I've
got to find a catch, Like I have to find
another person. And having that impetus can make you like
a little bit more reserved, because like if you've got
a little bit of crazy in you and you're like,
I don't want to show them the fact that I
eat tater tot's cold out of the fridge, Like I
(39:56):
don't want to show them that, Like you're not going
to bring that up. And in my case, I'm already married,
Like what the fuck do I care give me.
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Them cold toots? Maybe she's like pass them over here, I'll.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Yeah, And if yeah, and and if the person I'm
going on a date with is like Oh that's weird.
I'm like, oh, tough cookies. Like so like there's a
little bit you don't have as much of a like, man,
I've got to make this work because otherwise I'll be alone.
I'm like, it's more like go out there and have
(40:28):
fun if it doesn't work out, like you gave an
honest effort. And I think that's sort of an advantage
for polyamorous over monogamous. Is like, yeah, you're already in
a relationship, you've got you've still got a home, you've
still got like a partner, and you can always come
back and you're like, man, that date that was rough
(40:49):
or that didn't work out, or oh it was a success,
and they're like cool, that's awesome. You talk about it
as opposed to like if you're single and monogamous, like
you're either you know, with somebody and you're not going
out on dating or you know, you're trying to date
and you're like, man, I hope this goes well, because
if it doesn't, then like that's tough.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
That's true. It almost I mean maybe this is maybe
this is taking one step further or speculating, but it
could almost make an individual maybe a little more desperate
to make a couple of dates relationship work because they
don't have a person back home.
Speaker 3 (41:23):
Yeah. I mean in terms of economics, like you look
at like, oh man, if you have capital already, you're
more likely to make you know, business investments that are dangerous,
but that can also have way better reap, way more rewards. Yeah,
because if it doesn't work out, you're not going to
be homeless. You've got money. And in the same way,
(41:43):
like if you have a partner, like you're going to
make some more risky decisions out in the dating field
because like, oh no, this relationship doesn't work out, Like
I have a home base, I have a you know,
a forever partner or your your main partner that like, yeah,
(42:04):
they're your ride or die if everything else falls apart,
you got them, and so you're you're more likely to,
I think, be a more honest self out there, take
more risks.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Yeah, I like that, take more risks. Speaking of risks,
I did want to mention just because we're kind of
wrapping up the end for advice for giving out to people,
I would assume getting tested regularly.
Speaker 3 (42:29):
For yeah, no sts, yes.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Sti's I couldn't remember. I don't really have to worry
about them with my orientation, but I remember that they changed.
Speaker 3 (42:39):
Yeah, I mean I think that's important in general. If
you're just sexually active, that's very true.
Speaker 2 (42:44):
If you're if you're sexually active, and if you're polyamorous,
yes always yeah, get get them tests.
Speaker 3 (42:49):
Because this is one of those things where like, oh,
believe it or not, your decisions have consequences, because when
you go out and you sleep with somebody, m hmm,
there's a potential that you bring back an STI and
then all of a sudden, it's not just your problem
in that other person's problem, Like you've brought it back
and you've made it your other partner's.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
Problem, right, and all of their partner's problems.
Speaker 3 (43:13):
Yeah, exactly. Oh you are, you are out there. You've
got to make sure for me, I am. You know,
I'm not looking to have kids, so I am just
like man, condoms number one importance. Even if sometimes even
if partner is like, oh, I'm on birth control, I'm like, hmmm,
for my conscience. It's not that I don't believe you,
(43:33):
but for my conscience, we're going to wrap it up.
Speaker 2 (43:35):
No, that's great because I know that's the you know,
the big stereotype for especially men not liking condoms. But
I'm glad you're being smart now, you're being smart about it.
To wrap it up, because yeah, it's especially going out.
You don't want to spread kids. You don't want to
spread the kids. Uh, and you don't want to catch
any diseases which you know could freaking hurt or kill
(43:56):
other people.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Yeah, And may I ask how frequently should you go
to get tested? Slash how frequently do you get tested?
Which I hope is the same answer.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
They're not the same answer because of like how freaking
picky and cheesy I am. Uh huh. It honestly depends
on how sectually active you are. Like, I don't have
a number in front of me. I don't even know
what like the CDC recommended number is with.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
The guidebooks, right, Yeah, to be fair, I don't do
test at all because I don't bang. But I don't
know whether it's like every session every night.
Speaker 3 (44:38):
Oh no, no, no, I would say once a month
is a pretty good thing if you are sleeping around
on the regular. This is also where spreadsheets come in handy.
I had a friend who all right, I shouldn't say
friend I knew someone who got an STI and they
(45:02):
had to figure out like, oh my gosh, who do
I need to call to tell that, like they need
to get checked up, and who did I get it from?
And they consulted the spreadsheet him in his roommates.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
Did they really have a spreadsheet?
Speaker 3 (45:16):
They found out yep, they found out who, and they,
you know, had all the contact information for all the
people that he slept with. And he called up everybody
after that person being like, hey, just so you know,
I found this out and you should get checked up.
And I was like, dang, that is another win for
(45:39):
Microsoft Excel or at least.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
A planner or something like that to keep track of.
Speaker 3 (45:44):
Yeah, it's like the healthy alternative to the Little Black Book,
Like like on one hand you have the like psychopath
who's like yes, another like another conquered, like you.
Speaker 2 (45:55):
Know, another night of intimate passion that I can recall.
Speaker 3 (45:59):
Yeah, yes, yes, the dentists from always sunny like creepy
record keeping. And then on like the healthy side, it's
somebody being like, you know this person, you know, here's
the contact information just in case I need to call
them up and tell them, like this was the date
this was the time, you know, And it's like a
it's like a medical journal.
Speaker 2 (46:20):
So I'm looking it up right now and I'm seeing
it varies on how sexually active you are, but I'm
seeing at least once a year for like HIV, gonorrhea, chlamydia,
but more frequently if you notice any symptoms is what
(46:41):
I'm kind of seeing overall. So at least once a
year more frequently. If you're you're no burning, itching, oozing
the pretty stuff to get to get tested, then I
I way over guessed, I think just because my mind
doesn't see sex is fun. In my mind, I see
(47:03):
it as a chore. So I'm thinking, like, oh, and
you gotta get a test like every time you have
sex or with a different partner. But no, that was
clearly an exaggeration from my own preconceived notion, So nevermind.
Is there any other advice that you would have for
individuals who are polyamorous or maybe it's something that's like
they're sort of thinking about or wrestling with inside of them.
(47:26):
You've obviously given a lot of great advice about communication
or making sure no one's left out and keeping track
of people you've slept with, But is there any other
advice you can think of.
Speaker 3 (47:37):
Yeah, it's polyamory is not easy. Like I said, it
is like just setting life to hard mode. If you
are really really excited about polyamory and you need a
grounding rod, I would head on over to like the
polyamory subreddits and stuff, because man, if everyone of those
is not a success story, is really depressing. How how
(48:03):
all of those are basically like, we tried and it
did not go well, and I you don't see success
stories there.
Speaker 2 (48:10):
Then I guess what would be the success story? Sorry,
the six sex story freud would be very happy right now,
the success story of like a bang a lot, it's
pretty great.
Speaker 3 (48:22):
Yeah, Like the success story would be like, man, you
got me saying it now. The seccess story would be like, yeah,
like we ran into this person, it worked out, and
now we're happily like married with them as are like
live in partner. I know somebody who's who's like that,
(48:43):
and and sometimes you know they'll have a partner move
and a partner move out, but you know they're polyamorous.
It works for them. But I don't hear a whole
lot of that, and probably for good reason. I'd be
willing to bet that that is not the majority of
polyamorous relationships. So if you're going into if you think
about polyamorous, I would head over there for a dose
of reality. You are fighting the odds, but that is
(49:05):
not to say that it doesn't work or can't work,
and being open to it is sort of the start
to just having a general mindset culturally that that is
an option. You know, that's something you can work on
in terms of like jealousy and boundaries and communication, which.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Is also good in any relationship. Yeah, between yeah, jealousy and.
Speaker 3 (49:27):
Yeah, once again, very good for any relationship. And just
always checking in with your partner every step of the
way is very important. We kind of had a hard
eject policy for ours, which was like, hey, the moment
this is this doesn't feel right, you just let me
know and we'll pull the ripcord. That was for my wife,
(49:52):
so you know, when it gets to be I don't
want it to get to be too much, you know,
I don't want to be a breaking point. It's just like, hey,
when this starts to be in comfortable, let me know,
like so that we can we can talk about it,
reevaluate and maybe just call it a you know, call
a break. Just what we're doing now.
Speaker 2 (50:08):
I love that. Yeah, that, like you said, that trust
with each other and then that communication of saying like, hey,
let's take a step back, let's get ourselves right, and
then when we're up for it, we'll get back in there. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (50:19):
Yeah. Another thing that I would say, definitely, and once again,
this isn't just with polyambory, this is just with a
lot of things, is like, don't do a whole lot
of comparisons. Like if you're talking about people, talk about them,
and don't don't be comparative between your one partner and
the other partner unless that's something that you're like really
(50:42):
comfortable and you've known them, I would say, for a
really long time and everybody's cool, you know, then you
can be like, well, yeah, like they do this a
lot better because nobody wants to hear that.
Speaker 2 (50:54):
Yeah. Yeah, that's that's an easy jealousy maker. I would
I would argue, I'd feel jealous.
Speaker 3 (51:00):
If you were like, man, I'm a little jealous, but
I can get through that. That's like taking gas and
being like okay, but how does it work now, and
then being like throwing gas on that fire and they're
like Okay, like I really have an issue with this
now for sure.
Speaker 2 (51:13):
So yeah, just like any relationship, because let's face it,
like polyamorous or being polly is just like regular dating.
You just got a couple more players in the game.
Speaker 3 (51:25):
Yep, yep.
Speaker 2 (51:26):
Thank you so much, Chech for coming onto the podcast today.
This was really cool. I learned a lot, and hopefully
our listeners did too. Thank you so much, Chesch for
coming on to Ace of Hearts.
Speaker 3 (51:37):
No, I was gonna say thank you for coming.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
Thank you my good friend Chesh for coming onto our show.
That was so interesting. I loved hearing how Chesh thought
about dating, and it was so cool to hear sometimes
he approaches his love life more logically. I think sometimes,
because we get these feelings of like affection and life,
(52:00):
it can almost feel like love is its own sense
of like magic and wonder. But sometimes it's good to
take a step back and think about it logically. So
I thought that was a really interesting thing and maybe
something that I might keep in mind in the future
if I like somebody, you know, to try to be
smart before jumping into a big relationship. I hope you
did a little bit of laughing, learning and loving with
(52:21):
me today again. Thank you so much to Matt Langston
from the Jelly Rocks for letting us use their song Glued.
You can find the song down below, or if you're
looking for more of their work, I freaking love them.
If you love what you hear, feel free to leave
a review or a rating, And if you think you
have a perspective or story to tell, please send us
(52:44):
an email. Please come back next week for some unconventional
love stories, and remember, don't keep your cards too close
to your chest or you'll never open up to some
new hands. Have a great day and we'll see you
real soon.
Speaker 3 (53:00):
Mind can be saved.
Speaker 2 (53:04):
All night, not thin.
Speaker 4 (53:09):
Keep my hand side
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!