Ace of Hearts : Dating with Borderline Personality Disorder - Guest Starring Noah Goshorn - Ace of Hearts

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, my King's Queens and in betweens, Welcome to Ace
of Hearts, a dating podcast from every perspective. My name
is Maddie and for any first time listeners, Ace of
Hearts is a dating podcast where I, the inexperienced and
naive asexual that I am, talk to people with an

(00:20):
assortment of different backgrounds all about their dating life. And
before we continue, I just want to state that we
at Ace of Hearts have no intention of generalizing any lifestyle, race, gender, disability,
et cetera. Our desire is to hear love stories and

(00:41):
sometimes horror stories, but always from people who don't always
get the spotlight. Every person is unique and so is
their story. And today we have my little brother, Noah
Gossaorn and Noah, how are you today?

Speaker 2 (00:58):
I'm good? How are you?

Speaker 1 (00:59):
I'm doing very good? I know what Today? We're here
to talk about your aspect of dating. Uh so, Noa,
would you like to tell us what makes your walk
in a dating life a little different?

Speaker 2 (01:10):
Yeah? I have borderline personality disorder, so that causes very
extremely erratic emotions which can be hard to navigate.

Speaker 1 (01:32):
Inside. I obviously have this advantage of talking to you
just because I know you so well. We grew up together,
and I know, like, just just for the audience to hear,
I remember when we were kids and you were often
very emotional as a kid and a teenager. But like,

(01:56):
do you think that affected you like growing up? I know,
I know you didn't know you were diagnosed with borderline
personality disorder until you were in your twenties, But was
there a time when you were a kid or teenager
that you realize like, something's a little off about me
and it's affecting like my life and my relationship with others.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Yeah. I feel this is something that a lot of
my friends too. When I said like, oh, I've bortline
personality disorder and like, oh what does that mean? And
I explained it to them, I feel like a lot
of my friends like, oh yes, I see that, like
and then they all had stories of like oh yeah,
when you were younger, this city, to this, that and that.
I'm like, oh, yeah, that makes sense. So in the
similar vein, when I found out the diagnosis, I felt
extremely comforted because I was like, yeah, my entire life
I felt these erratic, strong emotions. But growing up, our

(02:37):
mom tend to get stressed out a lot over small things,
and I remember thinking that that was silly, because I
was like, why are you getting stressed out over little things?
But then it started happening to me a lot where
I would get these huge intense waves of either anger
or happiness or frustration, and I would start getting anger
with myself, Like so these emotions would kind of boil
and change to anger specifically directed at myself because I

(03:00):
thought like, why are you acting so erratic? Essentially, which
then often led to a whole slew of other issues
that had developed further in my adulthood, such as like
depression and anxiety and stuff like that. But yeah, a
lot of a lot of those just very powerful, overwhelming
emotions I remember feeling like as a kid. I remember
when I was in middle school, I was supposed to
go to this Bible school snow trip if forget what

(03:25):
it was called, but like a bunch of all the
youth group were supposed to go to this like ski lodge,
and I was really excited for it. But the moment
I was supposed to get on the bus, I started
feeling this intense anxiety and dread. And obviously I was younger,
but I remember it being more anxious than I have
ever felt before in my life, and it was still
like consuming that I couldn't go. I couldn't get on
the bus. I started crying, and everyone's like, what's wrong

(03:45):
and I and I just couldn't go because that feeling
of anxiety was then like boosted to one hundred by
the BPD, and I just like I couldn't function.

Speaker 1 (03:53):
I sent, Yeah, and how old were you, like fourteen fifteen?

Speaker 2 (03:57):
I don't know, how are you in middle school? It
was probably an I'm thirteen fourteen, I would say, like
lower middle school, yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:02):
For sure. And I honestly, I probably should do a
little more research on borderline before I recorded this, But
I do wonder if when you start to go through puberty,
when your hormones and neurotransmitters are in full swing, I'm
sure that's a huge like triggering with the borderline personality
as well, just because now you have this new flood
of emotions and flood of feelings that you didn't quite

(04:24):
feel when you were a kid. And I'm sure that's
just on top of it.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
I don't know a lot about it myself, Like doctors
have told me that not to be like secretive like,
don't look it up, but it could be a lot
of information. I think it's something like seventy or eighty
percent of people with BPD will attempt SUSID at some
point in their life. So a lot of my doctors,
to try and comfort me, told me that I shouldn't
like do a lot of research into it without them,

(04:48):
essentially because they don't want me to like be overwhelmed
by the diagnosis. But I do know my psychiatrist who
I have right now said that when you get older,
it tends to meddle out because it is a personality disorder,
and as you get older, your emotions kind of stabilize.
So I'm sure, to reverse engineering that to what you
were saying that when you're a teenager and your emotions
are so erratic, I'm sure that BPD is very powerful

(05:10):
around that time, or maybe a lot more noticeable.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
Right, And that's obviously when you're becoming yourself, your young
adult self, and learning so much about who you are.
I'm sure on top of that, having these extreme feelings
of emotions and looking around and like you see maybe
your friends also having these bursts of hormones, but maybe
like not quite as you I'm sure that affected you
a lot socially.

Speaker 2 (05:31):
When I first got diagnosed my psychiatry. There's generally two
types of waves, as we want to call them, the
comfort ones and the uncomfortable. The emotion around them, the connotation.
That's it. The connotation of good and bad is so polarized.
We think, oh, this is a good emotion, therefore it
is good for me, and this is a bad thing.
I don't want it, as opposed to saying all emotions

(05:51):
are neutral, Like you know, being angry isn't a bad thing.
Being angry is normal, right, This is normal to feel
anxest as normal to feel sad, It's normal to feel angry.
Sometimes all them comfortable and uncomfortable is the solution we
decided on that way, I'm not like upset with myself
when I feel angry, So the uncomfortable ones would be
like sadness, anxiety, frustration, anger, and those are the ones

(06:13):
it's a lot easier to tell because they're uncomfortable. Well,
the comfortable ones, such as like happiness or love, those
are much harder for me to tell in the moment
because I'm enjoying myself as opposed to being angry or
frustrated or sad. I forget the original question, but I
had some.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
No, No, it's all right, this is really good information. Yeah,
and also it's making me think of the movie inside out,
how she had all those different emotions and they were
just like a part of who she was. I hope
that doesn't like demean what you said. I think it's
just like helping me make those connections.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
Oh no, to me, that is not offensive in the slightest.
I don't know if anyone else listening like how they
are you. I mean, that's what the movie was trying
to say to you, right, The movie was basically the
climax was that emotions should work together. So I think
to have a parallel in your brain isn't necessarily bad going.

Speaker 1 (07:02):
Forward, Yeah, and just moving right along. You said, one
of those comfortable feelings is affection and love. I'd love
to hear some of the first dates you went on
and when you started to realize that you're Maybe you
didn't know it at the time that you were borderline,
but you started to notice that your strong emotions were
highly affecting your relationships.

Speaker 2 (07:22):
So, starting around fourteen, there was this girl who was
a good friend of mine, and I remember just being like,
I don't want to stay obsessed. Don't just sound creepy
and stockrish. But like I remember thinking like, this girl
is the one who I want to like, I really
want to date here, I really want to start like
a relationship with her. I want to go closer to her.
You know, well, these are a lot more mature thoughts

(07:43):
at the time than what you're thinking, right, because you
have time to kind of vote words of them. But
I remember, I remember thinking like, this person is like
the person for me. And it was like three years
of me thinking of this. I wasn't looking anybody else.
I was so focused on her. And then finally on
my junior year, I realized that she didn't feel the
same way for me. She just thought with me as
a friend, which is completely fine with the VPD. I

(08:03):
was the the intense feelings of infatuation I felt towards
her canceled out the more subtle hints of person, we
just want to be friends, because she didn't outright say that.
She was more of just like I really appreciate you
and kind of what we have right now, this sort
of dynamic we have, you know, those words, but in

(08:23):
the mouth of a teenager, because no one talks like
that one they're fourteen.

Speaker 1 (08:26):
Of course. Yeah, I was thinking too, it's like you're
a teenager. Like, yeah, I think obsession is fair to
say as a teenager because it is like this a
new idea, that's just that's just conquering all your other thoughts.
So I think it's fair to say obsessed. I think
a lot of us probably went through that phase when
we were in middle school, high school.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
Yeah, that's that's valid. I think that as I get older,
possibly because of the VPD, I try to rationalize the
intense emotions that I was feeling. But like, for example,
I didn't even know that it was normal to be
obsessed over people. I was like, oh, that's just something
I did well. Rather, I saw it in Hollywood, right
because in love movies, like oh, this person is like

(09:05):
the person I'm in love with, and I can't think
about them, you know, I have to think about them
all the time. Rather to me, I felt that I
would never I've never seen my friends do that before.
I've never seen like a friend or a loved one
or a family member be like this person who's the
apple of my eye. I'm going to marry them, like
from the media, get go. So I always thought that
was just a feeling. I felt that Hollywood like use

(09:28):
for plot. Essentially, why am I talking about this? What
we're talking about before?

Speaker 1 (09:32):
We're talking about first dates and like first impressions of
how how you how your borderline personality disorder started to
affect your your dating life? And No, it sounded like
it started off pretty early. This second you started to
have feelings of dating already, your emotions were were swelling up.
And now I know with borderline there's ups and lows.

(09:52):
Now was there like the the super low after the
girl said she didn't want to date you?

Speaker 2 (09:59):
Honestly, it's hard remember because a lot of not that
like I've oppressed it, but I feel like a lot
of high school I kind of just like dumped, you
know what I'm saying. But I don't I don't remember
a strong emotional feeling when she said no, so I'm
gonna I'm gonna say no that I don't remember feeling
that way. I did feel like these things for other things.
Because it's not always necessarily about love. There's a lot

(10:20):
of triggers that go with it, and a lot of
those triggers didn't develop, I would say until after high
school because of the first person I dated.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
Yeah, well, let's let's talk about the first relationship with
the strong emotions or with with borderline personality disorder. Did
this really affect like this relationship. I mean, this other
person might also not have been a peach, so I'm
sure that has something to do with it.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
Yeah, one hundred percent. I I think you know the
ending of this story. Maybe not.

Speaker 1 (10:47):
I don't know, right because I'm your sister, so I
know the gist of what happened. I don't. I don't
know if I know all every detail, but but I
know that she wasn't super great and I forget the
exact wording, but she essentially said, you're the worst person
in the world.

Speaker 2 (11:04):
Yeah. Yeah, No, not those exact words, but the same
sentiment for sure. But yeah, and that was her name
was names? Well, I was gonna say, I want to say,
but her name was Patrese.

Speaker 1 (11:20):
Yeah, how about that. Let's say let's say her her
her name was Patrice.

Speaker 2 (11:24):
You know, I'm not going to say you.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
Know, that'll be a very funny editing if as I'm
editing this, you'll just say, like, yes, I went on
the day with Patrese and then after yes, that's the
sound clip. I'm gonna use that sound clip every time
you accidentally say but anyways, great podcrossburn.

Speaker 2 (11:46):
That's why we have the yes.

Speaker 1 (11:48):
Thank God for editing. Anyways, So your relationship with Patters.

Speaker 2 (11:52):
Yeah, so when I started with Patrice, they like you said,
there's definitely heis and low's I I have on record.
I'm not u if I said this to you, but
to a lot of my friends when were recently thinking
about my past, I've said I've never been in love before,
and I think that's valid. But Patrice was the first
person who I thought I loved because these feelings of
infatuation were cranked up because of the borderline, and I

(12:13):
was so infatuated. There's a word which is called limbrens,
which is this feeling of a love that you get
early on relationships. And there was that feeling, like I
would say, like times one hundred, I was like head
over heels for her. I thought like I'm going to
marry her. I was very antire though I kept it
very private because I honestly, I think I was scared
of like being abandoned and getting hurt. But so I

(12:34):
didn't really tell much of the family about her, if anything.
And maybe you told mom and dad that I was
seeing the cone Patrese, but like they never met her.
I don't think you or Michael ever met her. So
I thought I was like, oh, this is love. Me
and Patrice are perfect for each other. And then also
there were a lot of downs. I remember several times
things she would say to me would hurt a lot
more than they did what anyone else would say to me.

(12:56):
And this, to me, really is a lot of my
memories of the borderlind personal to sort happen with Patrice onwards,
if you.

Speaker 1 (13:02):
Don't mind me asking, were they kind of nonchalant, like, oh, hey,
I can't go out with you internet, I'm spending time
with friends, or was it actually hurtful, like it's like, wow,
you stink. I don't know, I don't know, I don't
know what she said.

Speaker 2 (13:15):
It's definitely both. And this is the reason why. And
I don't mean to old generalist here, but people with
borderline personality disorder have a hard time keeping relationships because
things you would say casually will affect a person with
BPD extremely So you could off handedly say I'm going
out to dinner with my friends tonight. I'm sorry I
can't meet up with you, And to me with the

(13:37):
borning personal disorder, this this dissonance, this like mental gymnastics,
will happen a little bit. Well, it's not that I
misheard you. It's that I will take a different meaning
from it. Where I would say like, oh, we had
plans and you cancel them for your friends, therefore you
don't want to be with me. That hurt a lot,
and this hurt is them amplified to you one hundred
and now you're not saying sorry for it, and now
I'm really upset and you don't know why and you

(13:59):
aren't trying to help, or because you don't know that
I'm upset because sometimes you're not with me. It could
be over the phone, it could be a text, I
could be in a different room right But because I'm
in this extreme emotional state and you don't know it
and you don't apologize for it that day, well the
next day or a week, that feeling I have will
just like simmer and get worse and worse and worse.
So to her credit, they're definitely worse sometimes where she

(14:22):
says something so nonchalant that it wasn't her fault that
I was upset. As I've gotten older with the BPD,
I'm much better at recognizing my triggers and one of
them in these emotional waves. But way back then, like yeah,
that to Patrica's credit, she dealt with a lot of
my erratic emotions, which might be why things ended so
poorly because I was very erratic, but not an excuse

(14:44):
for the things she said or anything.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
But now that you know you've been diagnosed for the
past couple of years and you can look back even
before then, how long roughly do you have those uncomfortable waves?
Is it sometimes just like a burst for like ten
minutes you said, sometimes they even dwindle for like days?
Is that pretty normal?

Speaker 2 (15:04):
So for me, So if it lasted for days or
weeks at a time, I believe that would be closer
to my polar disorder. For what on personality disorder, generally,
what happens is you will the emotional hit. So let's
use anger for an example. So you're feeling angry and
disgruntled and you don't know why, and you're kind of
lashing on. That's how I generally start reisking, I'm like,
I'm angry, and now I'm angry at like my friend Lincoln.

(15:28):
Now I'm angry at my keys because they fell on
the ground. That I'm like, ah, why, gravity sucks. And
you get angry and angry and you start lashing at
it like smaller stupider things into the anger eventually peaks,
so that whole peaking process to me can take anywhere
from like ten minutes to forty five minutes of just
this like increased emotion, and then it starts coming back down.

(15:50):
And then as it comes down for me, I have
these moments of rationalization where I say, like, Okay, you're
not mad at Lincoln, you're not mad at the keys,
you're not mad at yourself, You're just angry at least
now I'm able to do this where I'm like, I'm
just angry. But it's still peaks as you go down,
like the bell curve if you visualize it, there are
still little spikes of it as the anger still will
peek up and then goes back down. Then eventually you

(16:12):
will meltow back out at your neutral state. The entire
process generally lasts from like forty five minutes to an hour,
an hour, fifteen minutes, but the lasting effects of that
can be long term. So for example, the anger might subside,
but in that moment of that forty five minutes to
an hour and fifteen minutes something like that. If I'm
really irrationally angry at Lincoln because he said he wants

(16:35):
to get coffee with a friend and I feel abandoned,
if that is an addressed anytime soon, and I'm not
aware that it's, you know, an emotional wave, the next time,
I seem in my head, I could just think this
guy abandoned me, and it's not necessarily a borderline personality wave, like,
it's not an uncomfortable wave happening. If abandonment that just
like the scar almost left in my brain from the wave,
is that you know, Lincoln abandoned me. So all I'm

(16:58):
thinking then is you know this guy left me? Why
I want to hang out with him again? And so
then that could cause me to be a right I
could start pulling away from him and he's like, why
are you pulling away? He doesn't know, but he's not
He doesn't know because he doesn't know how to fix it,
so he's not doing anything to fix it. I'm not
saying what's wrong because I'm hurt from the experience, and
now we start drifting apart because of the one wave
that I had.

Speaker 1 (17:19):
Dang, and just listening to that, I can almost hear
I can hear the upswing and downswing in your explanation.
Now that obviously you're aware in relationships, either romantic or other,
are you more communicative about how you're feeling and how
it's the BPD.

Speaker 2 (17:37):
With friendships one hundred percent with relationships more recently, I
started looking for love. I like a long term relationship,
So that's kind of a mindset that I'm in right now.
I've didd some people and they didn't end so well,
either because of the BPD or because toxicity in the relationship.
But I remember in those relationships early on are to
have this moment of should I stay with this person?

(17:59):
Should I go? And rationally I was like, I should go,
it was an a good relationship. But then when I
want to do that.

Speaker 1 (18:05):
A little bit, be the uncomfortable feeling of no, actually.

Speaker 2 (18:09):
I would say that's I would say, that's a more
of a normal that's just like a rational thought of
like this isn't working out, Like she is let's say
Darlene for another name, because I don't want to say
her actual name. So I was with Darlene and she
wanted me to be somebody I wasn't. She was kind
of in love with the mask that I put on,
and I would often put on this mask for it

(18:29):
because it made her happy. And I was like, Okay,
let's just put this mask on. And I realized that
early on in the relationship that she wasn't in love
with me, she was in love with the mask. So
I remember I was going to break up with darlin.
I was like, all right, let's let me go and
talk to Darlene and bring things off. But in that moment,
I had a very comfortable wave of the BPD. And
this could be like nostalgia goggles amplified by a thousand maybe,

(18:49):
but I was like, I am in love with Darlene.
I don't want to leave her, and that feeling was
so powerful that it stayed with me. So in the
moments where I was mad with Thurlan afterwards, I would like, no, remember,
you were so in love with her that one time.
That was such a powerful love that caused you to
stay with her. So I didn't break up with her.
Long story short, Darlene would do some things which I

(19:10):
in retrospect are pretty toxic, them would break up with me.
So then more recently the past two years, I would
start dating, and as soon as I got that feeling
of I should break up with them, I would like
jump on it, and that started changing to be uncomfortable
waves of abandonment. Was like, Oh, they're gonna leave me,
They're gonna hurt me, just like everyone else has hurt me.

(19:31):
I'm calling it here. So the past two years I
have indeed anyone longer than two to three months because
I kept I was like scared of getting hurt. That
scared feeling again cranking up to like ten times one
hundred times because the BPD, I was like, Oh, I'm
not doing this. I'm scared, I'm gonna get hurt. They're
gonna leave me. Why bother cut it off now? Which
is pretty common for people with BPD, I'm pretty sure,

(19:54):
is that they have abandoned issues and they have issues
maintaining long term relationships because exactly that they're worried that
they're going to make it hurt and the strong emotional
feelings of the past or you know scars that remind them.

Speaker 1 (20:05):
No, it totally makes sense. And just like you said,
like all emotions are just turned up to ten, and
so I think that can definitely affect your psyche. We
try to make sense of things, and so when we
do one thing and we see a reaction, we just
think like, Okay, that's just law now, like that's just
how things work. That's why people think about luck and superstition.

(20:25):
You know, they walk under a ladder, then they fall
down some stairs, so in their mind they think, oh,
that caused me to fall down the stairs. I think
human wise, that's pretty normal. But obviously you with the
cranked up emotions, I'm sure that can happen quite a
bit with like you said, like so nonchalant, I'm just
going out for coffee with the girls. I'll see you
in a week.

Speaker 2 (20:44):
Well, I think if you left for a week for
a cup of coffee out of I think that it's
a bit more rational.

Speaker 3 (20:50):
We're going to Nicaragua for coffee, can't cove you can't come. Yeah,
that's clearly an extreme but I but I totally underst
stand that.

Speaker 1 (21:00):
And then obviously that will affect you, not just you.
I think that's something everyone, but it does sound like
it might be a little more common with your with
your cranked up emotions. Hopefully it doesn't sound rude or condescending.

Speaker 2 (21:10):
No, I think that's I think it's a phrase I've
used several times, So for me, it's not upsetting. I
don't know of other people with BPD. I don't want
thing for me, and I don't know why. Maybe I
know why, But I don't like being called moody. That's
the one thing that I really don't like. And I
think it's because, like, not that moody is bad, but
I think moody almost implies that, Like the connotation is yeah,

(21:32):
but the connotation of moody to me someone exactly And
to me, I'm like, this isn't usually my choice, Like
usually when I am hit by BPD, like it's I
didn't I don't want it. I don't want to feel
this way. I would much prefer to be neutral, right,
or more neutral, to be more logical about how I feel,
a bit more rational with how I feel. But usually

(21:52):
you know, it's not up to me.

Speaker 1 (21:54):
Yeah, it's a part of who you are.

Speaker 2 (21:56):
Yeah, I mean what is up to me, of course,
is how we treat it. So's why we do a
lot of therapy DBT, which is dialectical behavioral therapy, which
helps you in the moment how to deal with things,
which is great for BPD because you know, you get
hit the face with this wave of anger. Okay, I
have to deal with this right now. I can't walk
away and deal with it, which generally is what CBT

(22:16):
is for, which is cognitive behavioral therapy. You should that
one helps with after the hit. How do you recover
wells DBT, I think usually is you're being punched in
the face. How do you stop it? Essentially, how do
you like gain some more.

Speaker 1 (22:29):
Control and real quick because you said it a little fast.
What does CBT stand for?

Speaker 2 (22:33):
I believe CBT is cognitive behavioral therapy and then DBT
is dialectical behavioral therapy.

Speaker 1 (22:40):
So obviously we've talked about like the extreme setbacks between
feeling abandonment and then you you know, feeling the need
to get out of relationships because once again, like you're
rationalizing your feelings with what's happening. Do you see like
positives though you said, do you get those like strong
feelings of love and affection? Like do you consider that

(23:02):
a positive thing about having BPDEP.

Speaker 2 (23:05):
I don't know. I think it depends on my mood
at the time. Right now, I'm feeling a lot more
the wordy is flat, where I feel like I'm able
to be a lot more in control of how I'm
feeling and a lot more rational. I think right now,
in a logical way, it is tiring sometimes to have
these strong emotions of affection and love because I'm doubting

(23:27):
myself a lot where I'm like, is this love or
is this BPD? And that can get very tiring to
doubt yourself and the validity of how you're feeling. Not
that BPD should you shouldn't invalidate those feelings, but you know,
if it is like infatuation, that's fine. Then you cranked
it up to ten. You're like, I'm in love with
this person. It's like, are you actually in love with

(23:48):
this person or not? And that's a hard question to
ask yourself, And I feel like it's not really a
positive to have this extra layer of down on top
of it. That being said, that's coming from a very
logical point of view. I think there is something admirable
about being able to look at a person and saying

(24:10):
here is ten reasons why I love you to the
moon and back. And they might and I'm not saying
this for everyone, but for me, you could do something small.
Let's say, instead of saying I'm gonna have coffee with
the girls, you said I canceled coffee with the girls
for you because I know you're feeling sad today. To me,
I could then take that as a BPD and go,
oh my god, this person's gonna read me like a

(24:31):
book and they're so amazing and I really appreciate them,
and that appreciation is then cranked up to a ten.
And I think that is there's something like admirable about
being able to look at a person in that mindset
and saying, here is a list of all the reasons
why I appreciate you so much, in a list of
all the reasons why I love you so much. To
be able to look at it through that lens only
because it is like an all consuming emotion.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
It sounds like you're still working on it any ways,
of being able to see positively about a person that
you're in love with, and you know it's not obsession,
you know it's not like complete fixation. You're trying your
best to look at it like, Wow, Yeah, that action
you did for me was very kind. I find that
good right, Like that sounds like a good like motion
in the right direction.

Speaker 2 (25:13):
I think so. But it's also very easy to say
that right now when I'm in a neutral state.

Speaker 1 (25:17):
Yeah. And for borderline personality disorder, you said like a
lot of therapy is like the good like coping.

Speaker 2 (25:24):
Yeah, because like, it's not a mood disorder where it
is the like brain chemicals or there are transmitters that
is an issue. It's a personality disorder. And I'm not
a therapist, by the way, or a psychologist or anything,
so I could be getting completely wrong.

Speaker 1 (25:37):
Good disclaimer. We are not psychologists, psychiatrists, or counselors of
any kind. We're just speaking from experience. Good disclaimer.

Speaker 2 (25:45):
Disclaimer real quick. Yes, clamor disclamor I hardly know her, Jesus,
try to live like with that for twenty eight years.
Twenty nine, goddamn it.

Speaker 1 (25:56):
Twenty nine.

Speaker 2 (25:57):
You're not twenty nine, You're not twenty right. You were
living with me when you were talk an embryo. You
don't know me. I've always been here a baby.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
Always and forever. Anyway, were we talking about we were
talking about therapy.

Speaker 2 (26:12):
Oh yes, because I was saying that because it is
a personality disorder and not a mood disorder anything like that,
it's not necessarily brain chemicals or no transmittals that are
the issue. It is more of an issue with the
way that you perceive emotions and how you handle them.
So medication doesn't help with it. As far as I'm aware,
I could be completely wrong. Maybe there's medication which helps,

(26:34):
but none of my psychiatrist or therapists have said, take
this pill, you'll get better. Instead, a lot of the
help comes from the DBT or the dialectical behavioral therapy,
which again helps you in the moment to say, I'm
feeling extremely happy right now, like I am giddy, I
am crying, I feel uncomfortably happy right now. What can

(26:56):
I do so I don't go and propose to this
girl or buy a car right because because like my
last birthday, we went to see The Batman together and
I don't know why, but I was so BPD happy
for a good chunk of that movie where I remember
sitting there like almost like subtly shaking with happiness in

(27:19):
the dark theater, just being like I and like I
remember being like I don't like go happy and right
now because I I it is this moment of like
I can't control it. I am just so the think
that's a weird thing is people it's like, how can you?
How is extreme happiness a bad thing? And to me
it's like it's a fake happiness. I'm aware that I'm not.
It's not deserved, not like holy shit, that Batman is

(27:41):
the best movie ever, and more of just like I'm like,
my brain is like you're happy right now, find a
reason to be happy, and I'm just like, okay, Batman.
So in that moment, for example, if it's extreme happiness,
the DBT is able to say, okay, you're feeling extremely
happy instead of like going to pose or going to
buy a new car or buying a new house, take

(28:03):
a moment, be present essentially. So a lot of it
is grounding exercises. It's saying you are in a sea
of anger or in a sea of frustration, you know,
drowning and happiness. Let's get your head above the water.
Let's take you know, literally take a few deep breaths.
One of the common DBT training it's called square breathing,

(28:25):
where you just breathe more slowly. You breathe in for
account of four, hold it for account of four, breathe
out for account of four, hold it for acount of four,
and just repeat. And that just literally breathing. Focusing on
only breathing does several things. I'm not a doctor, so
I forget all of them. But I know that slowing
your breathing helps you, like be more present for some reason.

(28:47):
You can look it up. Probably.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
I think it helps because I went to school very
briefly for biology. Yeah, I'm a college dropout, so da too.
Because your heart rate and your b are so connected. Right,
it's the oxygen how fast it's coming in. I think
it's tiger, and how fast your heart's going. So if
you can slow down your breath, I think your heart
will eventually am I take a minute or two, but

(29:10):
eventually it'll also like, oh okay, I'm not getting oxygen
as fast. I can pump a little slower now. So
I think that's the Yeah, I think that's the physiological
connection to breathing slower. Why it's helpful for your heart
rate and for your your nerves.

Speaker 2 (29:28):
Yes, because definitely that's the recently gave it definitely a
hundred percent was the oxygen. And then so in addition
to that, it's it's focusing on something else, it's getting
a mine off of it. So another very common one.
I forget what it's called, but I always just say
five four three two one, where you say what are
five things I can see, four things I can touch,
three things I can I messed it up. It's five
y C four you here, three you touch, to, you smell,

(29:50):
one you taste. And the idea is to say, let's
be present in this exact moment right now, let's look
around and say how can I ground myself? These are
grounding techniques? Right So doing some things like these, and
that's not a cure all by the way, if you
have borderline personality disorder and you try one of these things,
that may not work for you, but for me, they're
very helpful to say, like, okay, take a step back.

(30:12):
Why are you blank? Why am I angry? Why am
I frustrated? Why am I happy? Why am I sad?
Why am I in love? Right now? What is the
what is the trigger event which made this happen? And
then to kind of trace it back to that to say, okay,
like this is why. To me, that's very helpful anyways
to find the logic in it, because the personality disorder
is so illogical. To find the logic in it is

(30:34):
like my sanity to be like, why am I feeling
this way? This is why I'm feeling this way, and
that like helps ground me as well.

Speaker 1 (30:40):
Now that's really interesting, and thank you for the example too,
of like I think, sometimes it can be so easy
to see the bad or sorry, the uncomfortable upswings of
emotion like anger, and you could be like, okay, yeah,
clearly this is affecting people around me. But it's good
also to see the even the extremes of the comfortable

(31:00):
waves and like, okay, even this isn't good. I need
to like bring this down a couple of pegs. So
thank you for that for that example. Yeah, a batman.

Speaker 2 (31:10):
I think also like when you to take it to
a way where it could be impactful. Like I said,
like you are you could do something stupid like propose.
You could not right stupid, but well.

Speaker 1 (31:18):
Propose without much forethought, I would argue, is not very
smart yes.

Speaker 2 (31:22):
Yes, or or like I haven't done this, but someone's like, hey,
do cocaine and you're like, I'm on a high right now,
Let's go cocaine because like your brain is like, we're
extremely happy, let's keep this party going. Kind of a
kind of a So I have done like weed and
shrooms because of that, or been at parties people like
drink more and I'm like, fu could drink more? You know,
I'm feeling great, and then of course I overdrink. So

(31:43):
that's not healthy. Right. The same thing with like I
don't know a gambling problem, but that could be another
reason why. And you see this a lot with people
who have BPD is that they have addictive personalities. I
think that's one of the check marks essentially to see
if you have it, because you get so like reckless behavior.
That's what it's called for me, and you're my sisters

(32:04):
are probably a team I. For me, my reckless behavior
was sex. I would just have a lot of stupid
sex and I shouldn't have. But that was one of
my one of the ones. Whe're all right, you have
BBD because you are reckless.

Speaker 1 (32:14):
And by stupid sex, do you mean like unprotected or
with like stranger like people you met on the street, Like,
how is that stupid sex?

Speaker 2 (32:23):
Yeah? I mean so like reckless behavior, sex would be sex,
hitting away of friendships, work, unprotected sex, having a lot
of sexual partners not being safe but it's not getting
tested between them. Stuff like that. Also, just like regret,
you know what I mean, there's a lot of people
I slept with one I probably wouldn't have slept with
that person, such as like coworkers for example. I'll be honest, like,

(32:47):
I haven't done this, but I've been very tempted multiple
times to cheat on my partners for somebody I haven't
because that means a lot to me, especially as someone
who has been cheated on. But that reckless behavior being like,
We're in this moment between me and this person who's
not my partner, but I'm still getting those feelings of
infatuation because the BPD's all right, we're cranking it up
right now, and I'm like, wait, this is towards the

(33:08):
wrong person right now. This shouldn't be as someone who's monogamous.
By the way, if your polyamors has a whole different conversation.
But for me, who is monogamous in a monogamous relationship,
having these feelings for a different person and then acting
on them would be an example of stupid sex.

Speaker 1 (33:23):
Okay, No, that's good. Thank you for clarifying. I just
wanted to make sure because for me, being asexual, stupid
sex just sounds like all sex. Yeah, Like I would
say it was less for the listeners and more for me.
It's like, what would you call stupid sex because all
of it just looks like unappetizing for me.

Speaker 2 (33:41):
So I'm at a buffet and want none of the options. Yeah,
I'm at someway and all this meat has been out
all day.

Speaker 4 (33:47):
I know, thank you, but no, I'm really glad we

(34:13):
were able to talk about these ups and then that
and up them ups and them downs.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
You said, right now, you're currently looking for love again,
and obviously you've had so many relationships that have gone awry,
but you're looking to the future with a positive light.
So I would say that's good, right, Or you tell me,
you tell me what is what is the goal you're
looking for? Do you see yourself getting married one day,

(34:40):
having a family, obviously with your VPD in mind, Like,
I'm sure that affects your decisions and your your goals.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
Yeah, I mean it's something that I've not considered lightly.
I think that's threat phrasing because with not only do
I have the BPD, but also as an introvert, I
need alone time. Generally for me, when I'm in a
BPD moment, I find the best course of action is
to let me chill, like, let me do my grounding techniques,
let me just have a moment, like, don't keep adding

(35:10):
to it, don't like poke the bear, to remove myself
one of a steamless bits triggering me, and to just
kind of get away from it. Put music on, watch
a show, something to distract my brain from me, to
kind of let it write it out, even if I'm
like weirdly angry at how I'm your mother now and
I'm like, god, damn it ted, But but it's like
kind of like let it, let it, let it run

(35:31):
its course. So in a long term relationship, if I
get married, if I have kids, is that selfish then?
I thought? I thought often to be like I need
to get away right now, you sorry, partner, you need
to take care of the kids because I need to
walk away. I don't know, but it's something I've considered.
I'm like, I don't know if this is selfish, because
there are times where I don't know if I could
be there for my partner, Like if I'm in a

(35:52):
DPD wave, I will do my best. But if I'm
like irashally angry and then d need to like support them,
I don't know what will happen or said something I'll
talk to my partner about, Like like you mentioned earlier,
you said, do you communicate this, and I'm like, no,
I don't. I've never I don't think I've ever communicated
BPD to romantic partner before, partly because I was diagnosed
with it in twenty twenty I believe, yeah, it was.

(36:15):
It was during during COVID was when I was diagnosed
with it, So so since then I haven't had a
long term partner, so I haven't done this yet because
again I had those short term spurts for two years
of dating for about two months maybe less, and then
calling it off. So I never got to that stage
of like confiding going into it now, probably within the
month mark, if not sooner, I would say, Hey, I

(36:39):
like you a lot, but right now I have this
thing called BPD and it's affecting me in this way
and here's the best way for me to handle it,
and if that scares them off, then it scares them off.
I'd rather have them do that sooner than later. But
also I think it's just important in any relationship to
be very communicative, to be like, hey, I have this
thing which is going to make me act erratic sometime.

(37:01):
If you want to keep dating me, that's kind of
something you have to sign on for. As I get older,
I've been told it will mellow out, and I'm already
making good progress when I've been told, because I'm able
to recognize the waves when they're happening. I believe I
could be wrong, but I believe most people with BPD
have a harder time recognizing when the waves happen, which
causes a lot more of the issues because they're, you know,

(37:22):
angry cranked up to one hundred and they're just like
yelling at everything at every one and then people like,
why the hell are you angry? And they don't know
why they're angry. But the reason I think that I
might be ahead of some of my peers when it
comes to bpds because even as a young kid, I
remember thinking why are you acting this way? And I
would do a lot of the see the DPT exercises
on my own subconsciously. I wasn't thinking like, all right,

(37:46):
let's let's do square breathing. Yeah, but I did a
lot of things, like a lot of breathing things to
sort of calm myself down enough to say why am
I angry? And then ask myself all these question is
to figure why, which again from me, is always a
grounding point for sanity, and I feel like I've been
doing that forever, like honestly, like that's when they have

(38:09):
the diagnosis of like you're a borderline person I disorder.
I remember thinking like, oh, that makes a lot of sense,
and that I was like, because I've been doing this forever,
like because I'm a i'd like to think a logical person,
and I think to have BPD, which often can be
so illogical. And I don't mean that insultingly to anyone
who else who has it. That's just how I perceive

(38:29):
it myself, because these erratic emotions can often be like
why am I feeling this way? I don't know. Maybe
denotation of that makes sense because there is no logic
to them, because they're just you know, cranked up to
ten for no good reason or a good reason. I
don't know. I'm not you you figured out for yourself.

Speaker 1 (38:44):
No, but it's a good perspective to hear that sometimes
maybe not, maybe it's not for everyone, but for you anyways,
approaching your borderline really helps to come at it from
a logical perspective because it helps you like look at
all emotions and you know, keep a good rational hat
on top of them.

Speaker 2 (39:02):
Yeah. No, No. I feel like I haven't heard a
whole lot of BPD in the media. But we had
the Johnny Depp amber Herd trial, and I remember in
the trial, I believe they said amber Herd had BPD,
and everyone in the not the jury, but the prosecution
I guess, was using that almost as a point to
be like, people with BPD are like this, this, this,

(39:22):
that and that. I remember it was all negative things.
I remember being like, oh my god, am I a monster?
Because I was like I was like, no, I don't.
I don't act like that, and then in my head
I was like, oh do you. And it's just so like,
I don't know. I feel like I haven't seen a
whole lot of like good BPD out there before, because
I feel like it was almost like they're demon demonstracizing, monstracizing, monstering.

Speaker 1 (39:44):
Her They're definitely making it look like anyone with borderline
personality disorder is like a psychopathy.

Speaker 2 (39:51):
Yeah, definitely. In that tryout, they're like, yeah, of course
she was adduceive because she has BPD. And I was like,
oh my god, is that in my future? Like they
were lawyers, they may have some very good compelling arguments.
So I'm like, oh, fuck me. I guess of course
it's based on the individual.

Speaker 1 (40:07):
That's very true. Yeah, just because your borderline personality disorder.
And I think you said at one point, like you said,
you're not in control of your emotions, you're in control
of your actions. Yeah, And I think that is such
a good thing to keep in mind with anyone who's
also anyone who's maybe dating someone with borderline personality disorder,
or anyone who knows someone in their friend group or

(40:29):
family that the emotions are very difficult. It sounds like
to control sometimes, and like you said, they just kind
of come out of nowhere from like the tiniest thing
either someone said or not someone said. But the way
they handle it is something that they can work on.
At the very least, maybe they'll lashot in the moment
if they're if they're a good person, trying to get

(40:50):
better they can take.

Speaker 2 (40:52):
Here's a I'll just give an example. I don't mean
to cutch.

Speaker 1 (40:54):
You go ahead.

Speaker 2 (40:55):
And one where it is so like goofy, sale I
knew were there for. This is when I was living
in California. There's this moment where you were recording something,
or you were at a meeting or something, and I
was hungry, so I turned the oven on and you
asked me like, can you wait until I'm done, which
is a very like yeah, like you're doing something and
I'm being noisy in the kitchen. But I remember, like,

(41:15):
I don't know why, but it triggered me, and you
probably remember I walked away, and I think I sat
outside for a bit.

Speaker 1 (41:20):
I do remember you said like, so I can't even eat,
and I remember just saying that. I'm like, it's just
gonna be like five more minutes.

Speaker 2 (41:27):
Yeah, which which sounds which sounds very dramatic to be
like like, oh, I can't even eat my own house,
but like, and i'mderstanding. This is an example of like, yeah,
sometimes it is goofy, and it is silly in retrospect
to be like, that's clearly not what we were talking about,
but that's how my Bordlind personality chose to make my
you know, to interpret it. So just as you were saying,

(41:48):
for people who are either dating someone with BPD or
have it themselves like it, it definitely can come across
in ways where you're like, what the hell, So just
be like very patient, I would say, is the biggest thing,
and and try not to crack back, because it can
be hard to be like on the defensive because like
in that moment, if I'm just like, fuck you, Maddie,
I can't eat my goddamn fish sticks or whatever the

(42:09):
hell is cooking, and then if you came back at me,
it's like, that's not what I'm saying. I'm an immediate.
We would have had an argument because I was angry,
and like the anger just festers and you want to
lash out at people. But to like I said, like
just walking away from me was what I need in
that moment to be Like it sounds extreme to go
sit outside and sit down because I couldn't make my
fish sticks, but like I just needed a moment to

(42:31):
be calm, because I know if I stayed there, I
would be mad, like irrationally mad at you, which wasn't
your fault, like it wasn't anyone's fault. You're just doing
something and we shared a public space. And yeah, so
I guess just to apply that to like dating someone's
BPD or a family member and you have some you
know sms BPD, like I would say that the best
advice I could give what you didn't ask for, But
my unsolicited advice would be just to try to be

(42:55):
reasonable with them and like, you know, because again for me,
it always fades. But I also wouldn't say like, yeah,
I know when you're the BPDMO, when you were kind
of like crazy, because to me, I'd be like I
was crazy, you know, like I would like I would
start it back up again.

Speaker 1 (43:08):
Yeah, wording It sounds like wording is very important to
individuals with borderline personality disorder, at.

Speaker 2 (43:15):
Least for me, but I feel like I would say
for most people, I feel like it is important. That's
true sorry with most people with bpdm men, but also
most people in general. I just didn't want to speak
because I don't know anyone else personally who has BPD,
so I didn't want to be like everyone next this way.

Speaker 1 (43:31):
Yeah, I mean it makes sense though, right, just like
you said, like if I had said, like, you can't
wait another five minutes, like that would have clearly been
more triggering.

Speaker 2 (43:40):
If you had said, like, it's five minutes, can you wait?
Like like the tone and the word choice, but to
just to be patient while the wave is going through,
and then after the wave, try not to hold anything
you know too personal because, like I said earlier, like
if I am extremely upset and I say something to you, generally,
it's not your fault. It's just that in the moment,

(44:01):
my brain was lashing out. So try not to take
anything too personally, which is hard and it's not necessarily
always fair, But like trying to take it personally and
be patient, I saved the best advice to deal with
somebody who has BPD at least are the things that
work best for me. And I think that you know
because I've told you about it, and I feel like
you and I when we lived together, had a great, yeah,
great understanding about it too. I feel like in the
moment when I needed the space, you would give you

(44:21):
the space. And knowing what works best for few, and
just communicating what you need when you have the BPD
waves as well, because again it's not the same for everybody.
So but you do as I said before, and I
do stand by this. You can't control the feeling when
you can't control your actions. So just because you're are
very angry doesn't give you the excuse to start throwing
plates because the BPD gave you, like, very anger, right,

(44:42):
It's like you're still in control of that action. So
if you feel like you like I remember I punched
a wall before because of the BPD. I remember. I
don't think I know that I worked at the summer
camp with you, but there was a time where I
was so angry. I grabbed a baseball bat and I
went to the trash pit and I beat the crap
out of some trash damn because I was angry. And
I remember being like, why am I so angry? I

(45:04):
don't know. This was before the diagnosis, and I couldn't
pin it.

Speaker 1 (45:06):
But but you were angry and you wanted to let
it out, and you obviously were smart enough not to
be like, hey, let me take a baseball bat to
the kids. You know at the summer camp. You're smart
enough to be like, I need to take this elsewhere. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (45:19):
Yeah, And I still don't think that was like a
good outlet for the anger. But I definitely have punched
walls before, but it doesn't justify like hurting my friend
or like breaking things or punching a wall. You know,
in those moments, of course, if you slip up, you're
not a monster. But in those moments, do your best
to be like, I'm angry, I'm gonna hurt somebody, I'm
gonna punch something. I need to get away from things,

(45:39):
because again, you can control your actions, or again vice versa,
if you are extremely happy and you're like, I'm really happy,
I want to buy this car, to have the awareness
to be like, all right, let's sit on this for
a day or two, and then we consider the big purchase.
Like I said too, the comfortable ones are hard to
tell the uncomfortable ones, but the sentiment still stands. You
are in control the action, even if you are in

(46:01):
control of the emotion.

Speaker 1 (46:02):
No, I love that being responsible, And I assume also
if you do fuck up and you do hurt somebody,
it is on you to apologize that. You can't use
the BPD as an excuse. You can say like that
was a part of it, but I am sorry that
I did that, you.

Speaker 2 (46:17):
Know, Yeah, yeah, for sure, same thing, Like I mean,
it's not the same thing. But like, for example, if
an alcoholic like hit somebody when they're drunk, they can't
be like, oh, I was drunk. It's like yeah, I
mean you could be like, look, I'm really sorry, like
I was drunk, I won't drink again, Like it could
it could be a part of the apology, but it's

(46:38):
not an excuse. Same thing with BPD, where it's like
you can put it in the apology of like, I'm
really sorry because I BPD had a very uncomfortable wave
of anger. Let's let's talk moving forward how we can
like handle this. Although on that same note, I do
want to say that, like where you control of the action,
for someone who has BPD, you mean to understand the

(46:59):
outcome of the action. Obviously, hitting somebody in the face
who angry is an extreme, But let's say I am
angry and I canceled plans on somebody, and now that
friend is upset with me because I canceled friends in
my anger. I may not understand it with BPD that
they're angry with me because they canceled the plans. I
might be like, they're angry with me because of something else.
So I do think communication is very important too for

(47:21):
loved ones, for people at VPD and the person who
has BPD, I think communication is very helpful because they
might understand the action they did when they were in
that way, they're not be aware that they were causing
a problem when they had an extreme emotional Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
No, that's so good. Yeah, communication both parties, That's what
it is.

Speaker 2 (47:40):
Because one of the things that I've done the best
with my BPD is, like you said, to literally say hey,
I'm having a BPD BPD wave right now, and that
to me has been the best course of action, like
to want it. It's hard to recognize when you have them,
and two it's harder to admit to it. But with
my friends, once I've the personal disorder to them, maybe

(48:02):
I just have really good friends, but they're very understanding
of like, Okay, he didn't mean this, or because because
I've I've for example, I have I have some online friends,
so I've never seen before. But so it's harder to
tell because it's all just text. But I will sometimes
blow up on them and then I'll be like, I'm
so sorry, that was the BPD. I didn't mean it.
You know what I'm saying, and I'm luckily that my
friends are kind enough to say, okay, like I know

(48:22):
he didn't mean it because he apologized for it in
the moment, but also like the recognition of it on
my part helps a lot in the forgiveness too. So again,
I guess what I'm saying is like the for me,
what I found is just owning up to it and
saying like I'm having I'm having a BPD moment right now,
I didn't mean this, or I'm having a BPD moment
right now I need to step away. I think both
of those are very important for someone with BPD to

(48:45):
be able to have those two skill sets, which is hard.
I'm not trying to say like tomorrow you'll be able
to do it or that not in then I'm a
master at it either. I don't know. It feels so
weird for me to talk about BPD because I feel
like I'm just some kid. I don't know.

Speaker 1 (49:03):
Yeah, I'm just a kid in life as a nightmare. No,
I know, it's a good perspective, I think to hear
because there are gonna be people who are experts and
other people who are like I'm just figuring it out.
I mean, look at me, I'm asexual. I'm having a
dating podcast. I don't know what the heck I'm talking about.
Half the time, I'm just trying my best to ask
the questions politely and non judgmentally. No one's an expert.

(49:27):
I feel like people who know, who think they know
everything are like, yeah, you're just prideful or egotistical. So
there is one thing I wanted to bring up, just
because I know you, and I know that you also
suffer from a severe depression and anxiety. And you've mentioned
anxiety before. And do you think the depression is connected
with BBD or do you think that's just an aside.

Speaker 2 (49:50):
I think that they are two bastards who work together
against me, but there are different entities. But they can
work together, yes, yeah, for sure, not in a good way,
like at all.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
No, No, it's not a dynamic duo for sure. This
is like salmon and peanut butter. What I know. I
feel like they wouldn't work to well together.

Speaker 2 (50:12):
Oh like like a food combo. I got you, Yeah, focus, Yes,
you you're one hundred percent correct that they are. They
work together in a very negative way because to take
what up and saying, all along you have depression, which
sucks for everyone who has depression, and then you take
certain moments of that depression and you crank it up
and all of a sudden, these depressed thoughts are all

(50:35):
consuming and you're drowning in them even more so than
you already work.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
But for the for audience listeners at home, just like
you said, there's no cure for BPD, but if you
do suffer from other like depression, if you are extremely depressed,
that's not you know, get help with that, Like you know,
you can take antidepressants, still go to therapy when those

(51:00):
sort of dips do happen. From what I know of
borderline personality, it sounds like depression is like a cousin
that frequently is like paired with BPD because of those
extreme emotions.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
Yeah, no, that's definitely fair. I think I was just saying,
like the moments where I am at the worst of
my depression is when they are like currently both being activated,
like both buttons are being pressed. But yeah, I mean,
I think you're definitely right, Like there definitely is a
correlation between BPD and depression, probably because just feelings of
even melancholy can get amplified and you're like, ah, fuck,

(51:32):
I'm just really depressed today, you know, low energy, you know,
feeling sad, feeling worthless, feeling helpless. Those feelings also can
get amplified by the BPD, which is honestly like BPD
kind of as far as in my experience, it's kind
of like I said, it's an amplifier. It's something which

(51:53):
cranks anything up to an extreme. So it can happen
for any pairing. So again, for me, it's the depression anxiety,
but it could be if you have a different mental disorder,
if you have any emotion, it can take those also
and amplify them.

Speaker 1 (52:10):
Yeah, for sure. Well, thank you so much, Noah for
talking about all this and getting so vulnerable your highs
and lows and that your your experiences with your BPD
and all the emotions that come with it. I really
appreciate it.

Speaker 2 (52:22):
Well, I appreciate you real quick.

Speaker 1 (52:24):
Just because we're wrapping up, Noah Gosthorn, do you want
to plug anything, Do you want to talk about anything
you're working on? How other people can follow you social
media or anything like that?

Speaker 2 (52:37):
Totally I don't have social media, so good luck with
that one, kids. But I got, I gotta hup me
down like the CIA, FBI whatever, crap, do it again.
But I do have an audio drama which I wrote

(52:58):
and I directed. Is one of the voice actors in it.
She also did the sound composition for it. I can
find it anywhere you can find podcasts. It's called The
Clergyman the Immortal Woman. Because the Clergyman is such a
general phrase. You do have to type in the Clergyman
the Immortal Woman to find it, but it should show
up with any Google search, even I'd like to find
out where it's a YouTube as well, all over the place.

Speaker 1 (53:20):
Amazing. Thank you so much, Noah. That was such a
great talk. I learned so much from that. Not only
I mean, this is my brother and I love him
so much, and we've had a lot of great conversations,
but sometimes it's so good just to kind of just
kind of point out some big issues not only in
our own dating life, but something that's applicable to everybody

(53:41):
that I mean, for me. My main takeaway was emotions
aren't bad. They're a part of you. I need to
be accountable for my own actions, right If I'm upset,
if I'm mad at somebody, if I'm having a really
rough day and I'm frustrated and I snap at somebody.
It's fine to be mad, but then I need to
go back and apologize to the person and say, hey,

(54:03):
I was mad, I was frustrated, and it's not you
in particular, although you might have done something that kind
of like ticked me off a little bit and maybe
we can work on that. But I'm sorry for you know,
snapping at you. That felt good. I hope you did
a little bit of laughing, learning and loving today. And
thank you to Matt Langston from the Jelly Rocks for

(54:25):
letting us use their song Glued. You can find their
song in the description. Please check out more of their work.
They're amazing. Please come back next week for more unconventional
love stories, and if you loved what you heard today,
feel free to leave a review and rating. If you
have an interesting perspective or story to tell about your
love life, please shoot us an email and you never know,

(54:46):
maybe we can get you on the show. Thank you
all again, and remember don't keep your cards too close
to your chest or you'll never be open to a
new hand. Have a great day. We'll see you soon.

Speaker 2 (55:00):
I don't think you Keep my ancisemur very.

Speaker 1 (55:09):
Rec oh mine can see a nice don't think

Speaker 4 (55:19):
Keep my ancise mur

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Ace of Hearts : Dating with Borderline Personality Disorder - Guest Starring Noah Goshorn

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Ace of Hearts : Dating with Borderline Personality Disorder - Guest Starring Noah Goshorn