October 29, 2024 • 63 mins
Do you remember the previous episode of motherhood? We have switched the roles. This episode of Across Generations poses thoughtful explorations with our remarkable guests, Sandy Johnson and Mayor Jazzmin Cobble. Sandy, a seasoned realtor, shares her journey of opting for a child-free life driven by personal health and career aspirations. Meanwhile, Mayor Jazzmin Cobble juggles the joys and demands of raising a family while leading Stonecrest, Georgia. Their stories open a window into the evolving societal norms and personal choices that define parenthood across different generations.
In our chapter on multi-generational households, we reflect on the intricate dynamics and invaluable lessons such living arrangements offer, especially within the Black community. The skills honed by necessity in past generations stand in stark contrast to modern parenting approaches, and these generational shifts illuminate how past experiences shape today’s family decisions. We also venture into the realm of companionship later in life, examining how previous experiences and shared life stages influence our relationships and expectations as we age.
Balancing motherhood, marriage, and a demanding public career is no easy feat, yet Mayor Jazzmin Cobble provides a heartfelt account of maintaining a strong marital bond amidst these pressures. This episode bridges generational divides, highlighting shared experiences and the threads that connect us all, guided by the incredible narratives of our guests.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Welcome to a Cross Generations where the voices of black
women unite. I'm your host, Tiffany Cross. Tiffany Cross, Tiffany,
we gather a season elder myself as the middle generation
and a vibrant young soul for engaging intergenerational conversations. Prepared
to engage or hear perspectives that no one else is happy.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
You know how we do? We create magic, Create magic.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Hi, everybody, welcome to another episode of Across Generations. I'm
your host Tiffany Cross, and I have a question to
be or not to be a mom? That was the
question we asked earlier in part of the season, and boy,
did a lot of you have a lot of thoughts
about it. So, according to the science from American Time
Youth Survey attis, I'm unmarried and childless women are the
(00:55):
happiest subgroup in the population, and they're more likely to
live longer than they're married and child ring peers.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Now, I can think of a few reasons why.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
But meanwhile, men showed more health benefits from tying than
not than being family men as they took fewer risks,
Which makes me wonder if men benefit from the institution
and women pay a cost. I wonder why these men
are often out here trying to stay single so long
and women are anger to marry. But anyway, that might
be a show for another day. Let's stick to motherhood. So,
(01:25):
according to a few research, nearly one in five women
in America into her childbearing years without having born a child.
Now that's compared with one in ten in the nineteen seventies,
So these numbers are changing across generations. Now by race
and ethnic groups, White women are actually most likely to
not have borne a child, but over the past decade,
(01:46):
childless rates have risen more rapidly for all women. In
twenty twenty, about forty four percent of Black women were
childless in the United States. Now, I've talked about my
own choices, but given that certain thoughtless, morally rupt, half witted, racist,
misogynist parading as vice presidential candidates masking their own maga
cult sycophant status with their catless lady comments, I thought
(02:09):
it might be a good time to revisit the motherhood conversation.
So let's do that. Joining me now is Sandy Johnson,
Miss Sandy. She's a seventy year old successful realtor and
consultant she made a conscious decision to forego motherhood, remaining
firm in her choice even during marriage. So to this
day she is confident and content with her decision to
(02:29):
remain childish. On the other side, we have Mayor Jasmine Cobble.
She is a dynamic millennial with a thriving professional career.
She holds the esteem position of being the mayor of
the best city on the planets. Alongside her leadership, she
embraces her role as a devoted wife and mother and
wouldn't trade the opportunity to find balance between her personal
(02:51):
and professional life for anything. So, maryor Cobble, I need
to know what's the best city on the planet. The
city of Stone Chris, Stone Chris, Georgia, which is where
we are today. We are filming in Stonecresteorger So thank
you for allowing us to shoot here in your city.
We're your guests, so we're honored to be here and
very happy to have you as guests. Miss Sandy, I
(03:12):
do want to start with you because I want to
tell y'all both when we first did this episode, we
had our elder was loving being a mother and our
younger was like no, no, no, f them kids. You know,
it was like resolute, she did not want to be
a mother. So we have this reverse now where you
(03:34):
were resolute in your decision to not have kids.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Are you still married?
Speaker 3 (03:38):
No?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Okay? Did you get divorced or divorced okay? Didn't have
anything to do with the child bearing? Okay, all right, okay.
How long have you been divorced?
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Very long time?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Okay? Well how long were you married? Might be a
better six years okay.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
And some people shouldn't be married. I decided I was
one of those people.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Okay. So you're like kids, no for you? Did you
any point in your life one kids?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
You did? Okay, tell me about that.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
That was the norm growing up. You know, your little girl,
you play with dolls, you you know, make babies. You
do whatever, you get married, you have kids. That's what
you do. Except that didn't work for me because I
wanted a career and I didn't want to have to
figure out that balance. You know. I ran into Marikabo
(04:24):
a few weeks back. But it was her son's birthday
weekend and she had I don't know how many ten
year old boys at her house and she's trying to
do stuff and they see nope, testimony to why my yes, yes,
my decision was a good one.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Wait talk me through like you were a kid playing
with dolls and then as a woman you didn't want kids.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
When did that transition happen and why?
Speaker 3 (04:49):
There were several contributing factors. I call them signs. Right.
So I struggled with arthritis teen early twenties. I was
told that a pregnancy could accentuate that make it worse.
I started working and was very energetic in the corporate world,
(05:12):
so that was another factor. My ex husband now deceased, said,
you know, you're really too young. Let's wait, you know,
making babies. So there were lots of factors that kept
rolling in that said maybe it's not for you. And
I always said, in the back of my mind, well,
you know, I can always adopt. You know, children who
(05:34):
look like us, you know, don't get adopted in quite
the same way. But then career just really took over
and you pour yourself into that and that becomes your baby,
and you know you don't have to worry about I
can't tell you how many positions I've left without another
opportunity in the wings that I wouldn't have left if
(05:57):
I had to worry about. Yeah, so yeah, decision making
was impacted along the way by that decision.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah, I certainly understand that.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Now tell me, mayor prob you are a busy woman,
an elected official, obviously a distinguished career in juggling motherhood.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
How many kids do you have? Just one? Just one?
So I do you want more? No? No? So one? Okay.
What's the best thing about being a mom?
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Man? My son has taught me that love has no boundaries,
you know how this is a matter how mad they
make you.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
You can't find.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
The limit to how much you'll continue to give. Yeah,
and you have no control over it just totally consumes you.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
How old is he He just turned thirteen?
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (06:54):
A teenager? Oh yeah, we're need deep in it. Yes, yes, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
I think it's a different dynamic though, a teenage boys
and moms, you know, because I think I know when
I was a teenager, my mom and I write.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Oh yeah, you know for sure. Yeah it is.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
It's a little bit different than my mom and I
when I was a teenager.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I thought it would be.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Easier because he was a boy child. But we are
doing things that are certainly thirteen year old teenage type
and it has been an experience. It's only been about
a month since he's been a teenager, but yeah, it's
an experience.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Okay, well you told us like some of the sweet
two lovely parts. What's the most challenging part about being
a mom?
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Oh man, Probably trying to determine if you are teaching
the lessons that you want them to have and giving
them this space to show you if they've gotten it
comprehended or understand it right, even simple things.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I'll give you an example.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Maybe a year or two ago, my husband and I
were just kind of just talking about random things, and
I said, what if we're not teaching Mason is his name,
my son?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
What if we're not teaching him like the basics? Like
does he know how to use the washing machine? You know? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (08:21):
But leg have we you know, because in the routine
of everything, you're just like go get your clothes you're
throwing and it's like, but does he know the different cycles? Right?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Like does he know what?
Speaker 4 (08:33):
How do you do you wash white clothes in hot
water or cold water?
Speaker 3 (08:37):
You know?
Speaker 4 (08:37):
Like because life just moves, right, I mean, he just
knows the clothes or clean? But did we teach him
detergent and bleach for white. Yeah, so it's trying to
like balance. Did we teach him that and then give
them the opportunity to show it? Yeah, so I think that's
been That is really the most terrifying part for me
(08:59):
is have I taught him the basic lessons? You know,
we're always trying to make sure he's going to be
a good person in the world. You know, don't steal,
don't rob, you know, don't curse, and just you know
the pressures of being a teenager.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
And so we're always constantly doing that.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
And of course because I'm a civil servant, you know,
it's kind of like here's what you can't do right,
You're not allowed to yet up, you know, you've got
to turn the other way. But have we taught him
just basic things, you know, running the dishwasher, you know,
having to rinse the dishes really good before you put
him in the dishwasher, you know, just so that those
have been the things that are a little bit terrifying
(09:33):
to me, Like once he gets out in the world,
really know the basics, because we spend so much time
focusing on just being a good civilian.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yeah, but what about the small things you know, listen
to you talk. I have to say, this is a
difference between millennial moms and how I grew up. You
got that thirteen damn well.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
Right these dishes like, yeah, you better know how to
bus you are the dishwasher, right, there was no dishwashers,
like you had some money outside and I mean I
did too.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I remember, and we were having this conversation like does
he know how to iron? Yeah? Has he ironed?
Speaker 3 (10:13):
You know?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I mean we're just thinking, like, but there's something about that.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
I think, like moms now like it is this over
you know, they say it's like helicopter parenting and for
somebody who ain't got no kids and about to have
all the opinions about how moms raising their kids. But
like I hired these people, you know, and it's like, oh,
like you were raised different because it is a different
(10:38):
it's just a different reality for these young kids. And
I I mean I was cooking on a hot stove,
could barely see over it had a little spatula like this, yeah,
making fried baloney sandwiches. And remember I used to bubble
up and like grilled cheese. That was just a part
of life. And so at thirteen, it is kind of
baffling to say, oh, wow, like him, he'll washed his
own clothes, he'll iron his own clothes.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
And I don't know that was better for us as
gen next kid, you know, But.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
You know, I think about my childhood in that respect.
I didn't wash clothes, I didn't cook. My grandmother was there.
I mean, our clothes were clean, folded and in the
drawer or hanging up. You know, she must have gotten
up before daybreak, you know, because I never actually saw
her doing laundry. Yeah, they were just miraculously done. But
(11:28):
we had multi generational households, right, and everybody would live
close by. If they didn't live in the same household,
they lived in the next block or you know, walking
distance away. So yeah, lots different. And you know your
son's wearing no iron shirts, so he doesn't.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
I mean, that's a great point. I mean they wear
things now that are supposed to look like that.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
We didn't. We wanted to be exactly so they look new.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
They say, Christian Janus Sandy, that's old.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
But miss Sandy, you make a good point too, because
at my grandmother's house, I definitely never want We weren't
allowed to touch the washings we weren't allowed as that's
just so when it was her kitchen, her you know,
a basement where a washing dryer was.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
So that's true.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
And I think it is something about multi generational homes,
which disproportionately today even are occupied by black folks. Like
black folks still live in multi generational home we have
a different sense of family and community, I think by
our unique experience.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
In this country. So yeah, I can see that.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
I So I'm loving talking to you about this, Miss Sandy,
because I don't have kids, won't have kids, like you
know that time has passed for me, but I did
want to for a long time, Like in my twenties
as a child, of course, I wanted to. All of
my twenties I dated with the intention of having kids.
And so everybody I went out with the I'm like,
(13:00):
could you make his husband?
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Could you be a good father to my kids? You know, right.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Right precisely, And I wish that I had been a
little more relaxed than just gotten to know people, and
you know, they didn't know they were signing up to
go to like a life partner test. And then in
my thirties my attitude started to shift, you know, I
have kind of figured life out. I started making some
disposable income, you know, I could travel how I wanted.
(13:27):
And I also started doing work on myself, you know,
therapy and like unpacking things. Here's what I realized about
my motherhood aspirations. I wanted to have this family unit.
I wanted to marry the man. They say, you either
marry your father or who you thought your father should
have been, who you would have desired your father to be.
(13:47):
So I definitely was looking for this, you know, very professional,
ambitious man.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
To be his clear huxtable.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
You know. I wanted to have that traditional family and
be there and cook for my kids and you know,
have this home of stability and security. What I realized
is I was trying to right the wrongs of my
own childhood. And that's not a reason to create that exactly.
And thank god, because had I found that in my twenties,
I for sure would have been divorced by my forties,
(14:19):
you know, like I would and you know what people say,
that's not true.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Different me. I promise you I would have made sure
my husband got custody of those kids. I would have
loved listen.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
I would have been there. I would have loved my children.
They would come to my house anytime. They would have
a key to my house and that day to day,
let that negro get up in the morning and pack
your lunch and get do the school. And because I
would have done it for so long, so I know
motherhood is the hardest job and so I respect it
and honor it. But I have to say at this age,
(14:48):
I don't have any regrets about.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
I don't have any regrets, but I love hearing.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
And the other part of that is to find a
main at this stage in my life. Not a husband
of me would be an individual who would have to
have had that experience already.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, right, go yourandkids.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
But you know, I've met a few who've you know,
stayed still stayed with their mamas. You know, we've never
been married and don't have any kids. So yeah, and
I think to your point some of my realization that
(15:37):
everybody isn't the marrying kind. I grew up in what
I now know was a loving family, but love wasn't expressed,
and so I struggle with expressing my feelings. You know,
we've worked through a lot of that now, but that's
something that we have to deal with. My parents were disciplinarians,
(16:00):
you know. They didn't you know, pick you up and
hug you when you fell down. You know, is are
you bleeding? No? Okay, get up?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Yeah yeah, where are you going?
Speaker 3 (16:12):
You know? So so very different. But yeah, the the
other scary part for me as a community activist, I
was always terrified that somebody was going to do something
to a child that I brought into this world and
I have to end up in jail because I'd.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Have to kill them.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Yeah, you know, so it's it is a lifetime commitment.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
You know.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
They don't just go away when they turn eighteen, you know.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
I mean, how many of us are dependent upon our parents,
you know, well in adulthood, and we have more of
that today.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Well, a shift happens because I think my parent is
more dependent on me. I'm dependent on her though in
the sense of I want her alive and well and healthy,
and I don't know what I would do on this
planet without her. Some dependent in that way, But it
is interesting when the shift starts to happen. And that's
another thing about multi generational households and our unique experience
(17:10):
in this country is there are so many of us.
I think something like sixty two percent of all black
college graduates send money home to their parents help their parents,
and that has cut into black wealth by twenty seven percent,
So twenty seven percent of our wealth has decreased. When
it comes to white folks, fifteen percent of them send
money and help out their parents. So there's something about
(17:33):
that in the strain that you can have sometimes where
you're trying to take care of a child and a
parent and hold down a career and manage a marriage.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
You know.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
So, how long were you married before you had your son?
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Well, we actually had our son before we were married, okay,
all right? How long we all together before you had
this son?
Speaker 2 (17:51):
About three years? Okay?
Speaker 1 (17:52):
And those three years was it like blissful and passionate?
Speaker 2 (17:59):
You know the whole time rides you can't wait to
see him? I can't wait.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
We actually just celebrated our tenure mary anniversary, our wedding anniversary,
thank you, just a few weeks ago. But we've been
together fifteen years but married ten So Mason had just
turned three when we got married. But I believe or not,
I did not want children really yeah, yeah, yeah, So
I mean I did not grow up like I can't wait.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
To be a mother. I was also very, always, very
career driven.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
Even when I met David, the first thing I told
him was, you know, I'm focused on my career. I
graduated from grad school. HBCU grad, you can tell me nothing.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Where'd you go? Albany State University? I went down, run
a h people, I'm gonna die hard, Golden ram too,
die hard.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
And so, I mean, I just graduated from grad school
and you just couldn't tell me anything. And I was like,
I am career driven, dot man, it's gonna stop me,
you know, so you just get on this bandwagon.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
And he was like here a right, yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
And then while I yeah, yeah, and I mean a
complete shock because I just that's not the career.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
That's not the life that I had envisioned.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
I was going to be a lawyer with a penthouse
and a range rover, doing my thing like that.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
I was not interested in all. I mean, I had
it all planned out, all planned out, and.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
From being young, I mean I knew immediately that I
was that's the path I was going on. So to
have a surprise like that, I mean, that's a surprise,
but not a surprise of me.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Obviously, we weren't preventing it.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Yeah, but I mean just in my mind, the plan
was the plan, right, so you know, human anatomy wasn't
going to start that, and it surely did. And so
I had, like, you know, a life decision like on
the line, what will I do?
Speaker 2 (19:55):
I never thought i'd did in that situation.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
I have to make that decision and obviously made the
decision to be responsible and go forward with it. And
I felt like I had the right person and that
just wasn't then the plans for me.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
And my husband grew up in a two parent household.
His grandmother moved in with them when he was young,
so he, I mean, they the family dynamics was always
with him. So he was and is a I mean
when I say a tremendous father, even because I'm so busy,
I mean he is mister mom and has no problem
(20:33):
doing it. I mean and just I mean absolutely all in.
And he wants a football team worth of children. I
think that we have, you know, I don't. Yeah, so
we're you know, still trying to compromise there, but ten
years having another one, I usually not okay, Okay, I'm
open to if if God goes around this birth control. Yes,
(20:55):
then sure enough, then meant to be here and we
will have another.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
I always tell people with like only you know, the
like single child. I'm like, oh, but they're going to
have only child syndrome. And one of my friends of
their couple, they told me, they said, that's somebody else's problem.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
That's not our problem. True.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
There's a lot of friends around and cousins, and you know,
you just gotta you know, you gotta make your way.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Yeah, you have to, you know, it's it's life. It's
like we put one here exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
So you said something earlier, Miss Sandy, which I think
resonates of course with you as a mom, but I
think with a lot of people who make that decision,
and that you were worried about bringing a child in
this world and something happening to them. I also think
that is very specific to black women, you know, because
of the trauma, yes, that we have trauma precisely, we
have long suffered in watching how this world treats our babies.
(21:51):
And and that's another thing where you and I are
not mothers. But if your son came in here, he
is mine, he is heard, you know, like I if
you see a kid anywhere, a black kid anywhere, and
it's like, let me hold this child, let me make
sure this child is say like you.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
We're your parents, where your mama?
Speaker 1 (22:07):
And everyone feels the right that they have something to
comment on, Like you could be walking and it's cold
and somebody say you need to put a hat on
that baby.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
You know, and just in our community, it's just altural.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
It's a cultural that you don't have. You're not allowed
to say, mind your business. This is like yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am. Exactly. Okay,
y'all already know the streets are talking, talking, talking. So
there is something I think just maternal about being a
black woman in this country. And there is also something
(22:40):
very true to a black womanhood about the trauma that
we suffered. So we're gonna watch this cut together where
someone is talking about the trauma of motherhood.
Speaker 6 (22:52):
Yeah, I don't think people really recognize or consider the
mental well.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Being of moms. There's nowhere of the resource, there's no resources.
Speaker 6 (23:01):
Nobody even wants to discuss how motherhood can impact your
mental health. I had a whole conversation on an episode
with a therapist with this same therapy, and we had
a conversation around how motherhood can affect your mental health.
Imagine worrying about someone else all of the time in
addition to the other things that you're trying to juggle.
(23:24):
And this is a constant job. And like I told you,
just because they become adults, that does not necessarily mean
that goes away. That's another level of worry and another
level of motherhood at that point. But nobody wants to
talk about the fact that motherhood has absolutely has an
impact on our mental health and our mental well being.
(23:46):
I have PTSD from motherhood, and I will shot that
from the mountaintop.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
I mean, yes, I'm gonna like, how has motherhood impacted
your mental health?
Speaker 6 (23:58):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Man, that is I need to find that clip. Yeah,
that's spot on.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
It reminded me when I when we first had Mason,
uh and just kind of getting adjusted to going back
to work. I remember that the feeling of not being
able to think about anything else from the time you
wake up to the time you wake back up. I mean,
(24:26):
it was just constant, and I remember that being a
thing I had never felt before. I know he's in
a safe place, but I'm thinking, did he eat everything
that the grandmother tried to feed him, right, and that's
a worry, right was the milk too hot or too cold?
I mean just you just constantly thinking what are we
going to eat for dinner? I never spent so much
(24:47):
time planning meals, you know, I mean.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
You didn't because it's just you. You know, you eat,
you don't eat. You find it.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
You know, if someone else is depending on you making
a decision, and if you don't, it just doesn't have
right and then that person is just affected by it.
I remember that being one of the most difficult emotions
to figure out, and it's not something that they tell
you at the ob g U I N. I'm sure
(25:14):
that our mothers felt that same feeling, but it's I've
never heard that conversation.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
It's all you know. They always say.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
It's different, you know, it's going to be difficult, you'll
you'll get through it, you know. And I had a partner,
so it's like, y'all are figure it out, you know,
But that specific emotion and it's still there of like
just constant worry because without your decision, that person goes
(25:41):
without that That is almost all consuming. You have to
teach yourself and I'm still doing that how to compartmentalize
and be okay, Like just calm yourself down, just like
they're okay, you know, even without that decision, that moment
(26:03):
you know they're okay, and that's that's PTSD.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Okay, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
There was an article in the New York Times in
September and they talked about The headline was ignore your
kids more, and it was pretty much like you know,
the helicopter.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
It doesn't work, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
And the truth is, if you don't cook your son
dinner one night, I bet he'll figure out how to eat,
you know. So I wonder, but that's a small thing
you're saying. I want to first acknowledge the just the
worry that comes with parenting. And I can only talk
about parenting in motherhood as a child, as someone's child,
(26:42):
And I am a grown woman, been taking care of
myself for thirty plus years, and my mother still wants
to know, did you make it?
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Did you land? Okay? Did you get home?
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Like if she just randomly hoss And I'm like, I'm
walking from home schools going back, Okay, well text me
you get in.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Hell, I'm not gonna do it.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
I was just telling our executive producer. Sometimes my well
text me like, Hey, did you land in Atlanta yet?
Speaker 2 (27:04):
And I'm like, nope, the plane crash. You didn't see it.
I like that. I know I'm terrible.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
I know my mom is gone, but I'll never forget
working at Georgia Pacific. I think my office. My office
was definitely on the thirty eighth floor because my father
wouldn't go up that high. And my mom called the
main number to Georgia Pacific because she heard a report
of some tragic thing that happened somewhere in Atlanta and
(27:31):
she just wanted somebody to tell her that I wasn't
anywhere near that. Well. She didn't realize I was hr.
So the operator called me, it's Sandy, I have your
mom on the phone. You want to talk to No,
I don't want to talk to her. She's trying to
be anonymous. But you know, those are things that you know.
I was forty something, yes, yeah, you know, and still
(27:55):
trying to figure out ways too.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
I'm forty something trying to figure that out. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
But the worry for her and my mother, as I said,
she wasn't the the grab you, hug you, kiss you,
I love you kind of mom but that worry was
still there and demonstrated in any number of ways, any
number of times.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Well, you said something that really strikes me, And how
long ago this is your mom being gone?
Speaker 2 (28:25):
How long ago? About five years?
Speaker 1 (28:27):
So my mother prayer for lee and I'm blessed to
say it's still with me. We've had some health scares,
but my mother is doing great. She's fine in here.
But I so were like, I'm not going to be
right when she's not here, Like I'm bracing myself for that,
because that's the cycle of life. You know. We know
we're here for a finite amount of time, We have
our parents for a finite amount of time. And just
(28:49):
the thought of being on this earth without her, I
can't it does not compute. My mind cannot imagine it.
So I do think about people. You don't have kids,
So I'm someone I don't have children, and then when
my mother goes, I will be an orphan. So how
does the I will because I won't have parents and
(29:09):
I don't have kids. So the question I ask myself
is how does the branch survive without the.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Root or the leaf?
Speaker 1 (29:19):
When you're just here, it feels like you're floating and oblivion.
I don't have another life to live for, so right
now I live for my mother. I take care of her,
make sure she's you know, everything I can do for her,
I do it. And when that goes away, I do
question like, oh, well then what is life like that.
I'm not a tech. I don't regret the decision about
not having kids, but that is a real question that
(29:41):
I think we have to ask ourselves.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
So do you think about that? And how have you
navigated that?
Speaker 3 (29:45):
First of all, I would never consider myself an orphan,
even though both my parents are gone and I don't
have children. It's a mindset. I'm selfish. I'm going to
look out for me. I have two sisters, one on
either side. I'm a middle child, so you know, one
in California, one in New Jersey. They have children, Their
(30:09):
children have children, now, you know, so it's there's plenty there.
Are you an only child?
Speaker 4 (30:16):
No?
Speaker 2 (30:16):
I have a brother? Yeah, you have my mom.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
I have older brother and my brother has she was
my father three or not remarried because he wasn't married
to my mom. But my father married and I have
two half brothers and they live elsewhere, but in the
house where I grew up with my mom.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
It was me and my brother.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
My brother has two nephews or two sons. Yes, and
as the older they've gotten, we've gotten closer, Like you
can text me and call me directly.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
He's not married to their mom anymore.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
So yeah, I have If your mom missing around, they're
still going to be around.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
And I hope they mostly when they need something, to
want something, but that's okay, I don't mind.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
So yeah, do your sisters have you.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
My sisters have children. My oldest sister has six, My
baby sister has one, okay, and my oldest sister allowed
me to adopt one of her boys. So he's my favorite.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
So yeah, he's the reason I stay on Facebook because
that's how I keep up with what he's doing. He's
in San Diego. Yeah, but you know, just talk with him.
He's probably gonna head this way before the holidays around night.
And he has a son who is a mini me.
I mean they just look like twins.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Yeah, so he told you he did you de bois,
there were like he both ours, but he stay at
my house.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Because you know, I don't want him stay at my house.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
I love that. Did you literally adopt him or you just.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
He's mine.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Yes, he is yours because you deemed it so love it.
That is the best part of motherhood. You got the
best of him and I don't and I don't.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Have to deal with the phs dish.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Yeah right, yeah, yeah, Now what about those days where
it was a long.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Day at the mayor's office. That's every day?
Speaker 1 (32:11):
But yeah, okay, so every day it's a long day
at the mayor's office, you are exhausted, and your husband
helps out, but you have to come home and you
got to figure out new maths.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
You know, you got to get on a PTA.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Call, maybe doing a Jack and jeial meeting, you you know,
all the things that happen.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Are there days where you're like damn, like this is
a lot?
Speaker 4 (32:38):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, many of those days, yeah, many, many,
many of those days. But as challenging as it is,
I try to think of it as you know, my
career should not intentionally take away from my son's life's experiences.
It happens unintent because I just can't be everywhere. But
(33:04):
it is a sacrifice that he is making without having
to have a choice in that sacrifice. So I think
about how long will I do this I started when
he was.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Six.
Speaker 4 (33:19):
He just turned six, So most of the life that
he will remember thus far, he's been in this from
being on the city council to be a mayor and
he didn't have a choice, and he doesn't have a choice.
Every day he carries our name, so he can't do
(33:40):
things that other kids do. He wants to go to
a school in another district and he can't.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Yeah, he just can't. He wants to.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
So there's things he can't do, and he doesn't understand,
you know. He sees other kids transferred and he's like,
it's simple.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
God might know we don't live there. So yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
So it's so with that in mind that I know,
you know, I am unintentionally taking things quote unquote away
from him because of this role. I try as much
as I can to be thoughtful about the things that
that I can give him as a trade off for
(34:21):
the life he didn't ask for, and hoping that this
experience that we all are going through as a family
with me being elected, that he gets something out of
it that he can use later on, you know, rather
he's a politician or not, that he can use the experiences,
the opportunities the people that we meet to that lands
(34:46):
somewhere with him and hopefully he'll forgive me yes for
some of the restraints.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
I mean, that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
My friend Rachel told me this and it just changed
my whole life on how I saw motherhood.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
But she says, an amazing mom. She three kids, and she.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Said to me one day, He's like, you know, these kids,
you do your best, and you do the best you
can and whatever you've done for them, it could be
the best thing or the worst thing. Like you just
don't know, You just don't. You do your best. And
that's true. Like my mom did the best for me,
you know, and as as wonderful mom as you can be.
Still ten twenty years now, this boy is still gonna
(35:23):
be on a therapist couch, you know. Like my mom
gave me so much confidence and now I'm trying to
figure out Like.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
It's nothing, you know. Ye yeah, we all have to
work out our stuff. There's no barometer at all. Yeah,
even my mom. I have twin brother who doesn't have children.
I'm a twin. Oh wow, I'm a twin. What if
you had twins? The next one might be twins.
Speaker 4 (35:44):
That's a story. My husband's father is a twin.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Oh, then I see you again. You're like girl a
mother three that was so terrified carry this and I
was like, God, please don't do that.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
My rased what I talked about. She has a set
of twins. Yeah, that's how she got the three.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
So my mom says that, you know, having a boy
and girl twin go from no children to one of each.
What's the best thing that ever could happen to her?
She's like, it's one and done. She's like, so you
only had one, so you're gonna be tortured. Yeah, you
could actually have more than more than twins. You can
have triplets. I mean you could just because you didn't
get it out the way. Well you know, I kind of
(36:26):
didn't control that part. But yeah, she was, you're gonna
have twins, don't worry about it. My brother doesn't want
children though, Oh wow, So I guess I'm the only
one that could give her more grandchildren. So she's hoping
that twins or more arrive someday.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Well, do you have time so we'll see. I mean
that God's gotta go around that birth control you can't do.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
I'm not challenging, but I'm not challenging.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Speaking of Madam mayor speaking of making these twins. I mean,
because everybody's saying kids, it's like ooh, take it out
of you, and some people because I feel like when
it impacts your sex life in your marriage, people are
like I'm tired, like I have nothing to give.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
How do you keep with respect? How hovery much you
want to share?
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Obviously sorry to your husband who probably looking at you like, baby,
I know you ain't went on there.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
I want to hear that answer. How do you keep
your marriage a priority?
Speaker 1 (37:28):
You know, with holding a full time career and raising
a kid and like not just your marriage, but like
the romance in your marriage, and not just the love
in your marriage, but the like in your marriage and
just checking in with each other?
Speaker 2 (37:39):
How do you navigate that?
Speaker 4 (37:41):
So he does a much better job of keeping the
barometer than I do. Yeah, he is definitely the one
that's like, hey, it's time shut it down. Yes, yes,
And although I'm sure I know that's got to be
frustrating for him, especially because in a traditional role, and
again he grew up with a two parent household. He
(38:02):
watched his mother be everything and still is to his father.
So now he's in his own household when he doesn't
see the same experience that that he watched his when
he was growing up, so he is much better at it.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
He will put his foot down and go, that's enough.
Speaker 4 (38:23):
It's time, you know you, you need to break away
from all that. And what's even more surprising to me,
but I'm grateful for it, is that he will even
say that when it comes to our son. I mean,
he is wholeheartedly us first, then that kid.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Yeah, I mean that's definitely the way it should be.
Speaker 4 (38:44):
But it's like I said, I'm surprised because he's a male,
but grateful that he kind of has that.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Enough.
Speaker 4 (38:53):
He just yeah, he's just like, you know, it's us
than him. Yeah, and then all that other stuff you
got going on. So he is much better at it
than I am. I wish that I had enough compartments
to do it all.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah, there's something seductive about that too, maybe like when
your husband is like you're my party, he says, you
know enough, it's time to shut it down.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
It's like, oh, daddy, like you talk. I'll tell you.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
I am learning to be more receptive to it because
I mean, as a strong independent woman, my first reaction is.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Right, right, Yeah, a launder list of things, you know,
talk about.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
And then so I'm learning and we're learning through this
mayoral experience kind of where the limits are, you know,
what is the absolute I have to do this, David,
I cannot leave this hanging versus all right, let me
let me put this to the side.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
So it is certainly.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
Him ninety percent that keeps that on the forefront for
us and helps us really stay engaged with each other. Yeah,
because I'm transactional.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Yeah, I will.
Speaker 4 (40:15):
Go and go and and I was raised by a
single parent, so she was go, go, go, go, go,
and and loved. We didn't do a lot of hugging
and kissing. But she also was I mean we're from Philadelphia,
she you know, just from the streets. So she was
just like, I love you, but get up. So it
was just a very loving household, but very transactional. So
(40:36):
that is that's what I know.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (40:38):
But he, on the other hand, like I said, his mother,
his father, his grandparents, he has an older brother, you know,
so there's just there was a lot more to it
than just you know, kind of get up and go.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
So I'm grateful that we have that.
Speaker 4 (40:52):
It's balanced, although it's opposite experiences. It certainly helps us
balance it. But I have to give him the credit.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
He's much better out of the black dads and the
black husbands out there. Who's a leader enough where you
can say yes, I can understand that. And I think
it's something too for us to get in touch with
our own affection with each other after growing up in
households where love was understood but not expressed. So I
love that we're creating these spaces with and for each other.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
I want to ask you both this question.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
I'll start with you because you are a public servant,
a politician, and I hate to even give this shine
because it's felt utterly stupid and ridiculous. But these comments
from the right about if you don't have children, if
you're not married, you shouldn't be able to vote. Your
vote doesn't count as much and you're not invested in
the future. So right, that's the other thing that don't
(41:43):
take my tax dollar. You know, it's such a conservative,
white male perspective, like I'm utterly disgusted that it has.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Taking place on the national stage.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
And treat it with normalcy, you know, treat it like
this is a regular thing to say. So a politician
running like he's a commander in Gilead is making these
absurd comments about motherhood. You know, it's just bizarre. Do
you have any thoughts about that that that talks as
a public servant, an elected official, a mother, a wife,
(42:16):
What are your thoughts about people who are suggest that
our civic engagement should be reduced because we don't have
families in his mind?
Speaker 2 (42:26):
What that looks like. It's just wild.
Speaker 4 (42:28):
It's just absolutely wild.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
It's hard to put in words how absurd that is.
It's hard to ask the question. I mean, it's insane.
It's just absolutely insane.
Speaker 4 (42:44):
Yeah, I mean there's no I can't think of a
government service.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
That is based on things like I just can't. I mean,
you still need sanitation.
Speaker 4 (43:00):
Right water, roads, right lights, You still need to be
able to have housing, you still need to be able
to have a strong economy. I mean, I just can't
think of government that separates people based on parenthood. Yeah,
I mean, it's just it's just wild. It's absolutely wild.
(43:23):
There's there's no excuse for it. I would like to
apologize to everyone who has to hear that. I apologize
becauseous it's ridiculous and it's just it's not the representation
of government. Yeah, that's that's the representation of something different,
(43:43):
that's a different show.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Yes, yes, but it's not government.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
The scary thing is, though, like I think they're, you know,
in what they call the Mani sphere where some of
these right wing talking points have penetrated, like this tiny
sect of black men. Most black men are amazing, wonderful,
Y'a've heard about many on this show, amazing husband's, fathers, uncles, grandfathers,
et cetera. But there's a tiny sect of black men
who parents these talking points and who say, you know,
(44:07):
they traffic in misogyny and sexism and say, well, you're
not fulfilling your role as a woman, or you're you know,
a high value woman who put career over family.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
It's a really weird thing.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
So it's scary that people are listening to that and
repeating it. And shame on you, people who are voting
and thinking like some of these folks, and shame on
you for paring in those talking points. But miss Sandy,
what do you think about that perspective, because essentially they're
saying you should not have a right to vote.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
It's not a perspective and it's not something that I
want to talk about because it puts it in the air.
I want us to stop giving them airtime.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
On that note, I think we have given it too
much airtime, exactly. And I want to take a directive
from Miss Sandy because when she said it, she also
gave me that look like it's time to move on.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
And I respectfully.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
Agree, yes, agree, hard agree well. I love this conversation.
I love the multi generational perspective from both of you.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
Miss Sandy.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
I'm so happy to hear that you're like joyful in life,
because I feel incredibly joyful. I have no regrets about
decisions I made about kids, and it's just grateful to
know that decades from now, I'll still feel the same way.
If you're listening to this and not watching this, you
cannot tell. But Miss Sandy looks so good. All these
fashionable glasses, pen stripe, suit rich.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
This is traditional, sheeersucker.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Oh yeah, it looks it's very fitting, very becoming. I
love it.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
I love it, yes, yes, yes, yes, And this HBC
you love I love as well. So, Madam Mayor, I
humbly requests that you run for Congress.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Consider it. You have a presence about you.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
I would like to see this perspective in this face
in the federal government. I know you're going to work
here in Stonecrest, but you know, you never know you
can juggle twins and and commuting. You know, you know
well because the part of me is like, we do
need more black babies raised by people like you, So
why not let's populate.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
But really, thank you ladies so much.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
I just the last time we did this show, I
started out by quoting a movie, and I was saying,
motherhood is a mental illness, because that's.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
What Jabo said in the movie Hustler.
Speaker 4 (46:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
Yeah, it's true, because you will like kill yourself to
save your child, you know, like without question. So I
just honor and respect moms. But I also honor and
respect those of you who choose not to be moms.
And if you are lucky enough to still have your
mom with you, thank her for the work and sacrifice
because biologically she is wired to love you and sacrifice
(46:42):
herself and your name.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
So thank you all for those perspectives.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
And listen, if you wanted kids and you didn't have kids,
and that time has passed you, I hope that you
find joy in life, things happen as they're supposed to,
and there's a lot of life left to live and
a lot of freedom. Embrace that freedom that being childless
may afford you and do something nice for yourself because
everybody can do that every day, even moms out there.
(47:07):
Do something nice for you deserve, do something nice for yourself.
So thank you guys for tuning in to this episode.
We'll be back next week with another episode of Across
Generations and I'm Your Host Tiffany Cross. Across Generations is
brought to you by Wolfpacker and Wolpacker Media in partnership
with iHeart Podcast, I'm Your Host and executive producer Tiffany D.
(47:27):
Cross from Idea to Launch Productions Executive producer Carla willmeris
produced by Mandy b and Angel Forte, Editing, sound design
and mixed.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
By Gaza Forte.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Original music by Epidemic Sound Video editing by Kathon Alexander
and Courtney Dani
Speaker 3 (01:03:00):
Passssssssssssssssssssssss
Welcome to a Cross Generations where the voices of black
women unite. I'm your host, Tiffany Cross. Tiffany Cross, Tiffany,
we gather a season elder myself as the middle generation
and a vibrant young soul for engaging intergenerational conversations. Prepared
to engage or hear perspectives that no one else is happy.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
You know how we do? We create magic, Create magic.
Speaker 1 (00:32):
Hi, everybody, welcome to another episode of Across Generations. I'm
your host Tiffany Cross, and I have a question to
be or not to be a mom? That was the
question we asked earlier in part of the season, and boy,
did a lot of you have a lot of thoughts
about it. So, according to the science from American Time
Youth Survey attis, I'm unmarried and childless women are the
(00:55):
happiest subgroup in the population, and they're more likely to
live longer than they're married and child ring peers.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
Now, I can think of a few reasons why.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
But meanwhile, men showed more health benefits from tying than
not than being family men as they took fewer risks,
Which makes me wonder if men benefit from the institution
and women pay a cost. I wonder why these men
are often out here trying to stay single so long
and women are anger to marry. But anyway, that might
be a show for another day. Let's stick to motherhood. So,
(01:25):
according to a few research, nearly one in five women
in America into her childbearing years without having born a child.
Now that's compared with one in ten in the nineteen seventies,
So these numbers are changing across generations. Now by race
and ethnic groups, White women are actually most likely to
not have borne a child, but over the past decade,
(01:46):
childless rates have risen more rapidly for all women. In
twenty twenty, about forty four percent of Black women were
childless in the United States. Now, I've talked about my
own choices, but given that certain thoughtless, morally rupt, half witted, racist,
misogynist parading as vice presidential candidates masking their own maga
cult sycophant status with their catless lady comments, I thought
(02:09):
it might be a good time to revisit the motherhood conversation.
So let's do that. Joining me now is Sandy Johnson,
Miss Sandy. She's a seventy year old successful realtor and
consultant she made a conscious decision to forego motherhood, remaining
firm in her choice even during marriage. So to this
day she is confident and content with her decision to
(02:29):
remain childish. On the other side, we have Mayor Jasmine Cobble.
She is a dynamic millennial with a thriving professional career.
She holds the esteem position of being the mayor of
the best city on the planets. Alongside her leadership, she
embraces her role as a devoted wife and mother and
wouldn't trade the opportunity to find balance between her personal
(02:51):
and professional life for anything. So, maryor Cobble, I need
to know what's the best city on the planet. The
city of Stone Chris, Stone Chris, Georgia, which is where
we are today. We are filming in Stonecresteorger So thank
you for allowing us to shoot here in your city.
We're your guests, so we're honored to be here and
very happy to have you as guests. Miss Sandy, I
(03:12):
do want to start with you because I want to
tell y'all both when we first did this episode, we
had our elder was loving being a mother and our
younger was like no, no, no, f them kids. You know,
it was like resolute, she did not want to be
a mother. So we have this reverse now where you
(03:34):
were resolute in your decision to not have kids.
Speaker 2 (03:37):
Are you still married?
Speaker 3 (03:38):
No?
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Okay? Did you get divorced or divorced okay? Didn't have
anything to do with the child bearing? Okay, all right, okay.
How long have you been divorced?
Speaker 3 (03:47):
Very long time?
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Okay? Well how long were you married? Might be a
better six years okay.
Speaker 3 (03:51):
And some people shouldn't be married. I decided I was
one of those people.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
Okay. So you're like kids, no for you? Did you
any point in your life one kids?
Speaker 3 (04:01):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (04:02):
You did? Okay, tell me about that.
Speaker 3 (04:04):
That was the norm growing up. You know, your little girl,
you play with dolls, you you know, make babies. You
do whatever, you get married, you have kids. That's what
you do. Except that didn't work for me because I
wanted a career and I didn't want to have to
figure out that balance. You know. I ran into Marikabo
(04:24):
a few weeks back. But it was her son's birthday
weekend and she had I don't know how many ten
year old boys at her house and she's trying to
do stuff and they see nope, testimony to why my yes, yes,
my decision was a good one.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Wait talk me through like you were a kid playing
with dolls and then as a woman you didn't want kids.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
When did that transition happen and why?
Speaker 3 (04:49):
There were several contributing factors. I call them signs. Right.
So I struggled with arthritis teen early twenties. I was
told that a pregnancy could accentuate that make it worse.
I started working and was very energetic in the corporate world,
(05:12):
so that was another factor. My ex husband now deceased, said,
you know, you're really too young. Let's wait, you know,
making babies. So there were lots of factors that kept
rolling in that said maybe it's not for you. And
I always said, in the back of my mind, well,
you know, I can always adopt. You know, children who
(05:34):
look like us, you know, don't get adopted in quite
the same way. But then career just really took over
and you pour yourself into that and that becomes your baby,
and you know you don't have to worry about I
can't tell you how many positions I've left without another
opportunity in the wings that I wouldn't have left if
(05:57):
I had to worry about. Yeah, so yeah, decision making
was impacted along the way by that decision.
Speaker 2 (06:08):
Yeah, I certainly understand that.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
Now tell me, mayor prob you are a busy woman,
an elected official, obviously a distinguished career in juggling motherhood.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
How many kids do you have? Just one? Just one?
So I do you want more? No? No? So one? Okay.
What's the best thing about being a mom?
Speaker 3 (06:28):
Oh?
Speaker 4 (06:28):
Man? My son has taught me that love has no boundaries,
you know how this is a matter how mad they
make you.
Speaker 2 (06:39):
You can't find.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
The limit to how much you'll continue to give. Yeah,
and you have no control over it just totally consumes you.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
How old is he He just turned thirteen?
Speaker 4 (06:54):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (06:54):
A teenager? Oh yeah, we're need deep in it. Yes, yes, yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
I think it's a different dynamic though, a teenage boys
and moms, you know, because I think I know when
I was a teenager, my mom and I write.
Speaker 2 (07:07):
Oh yeah, you know for sure. Yeah it is.
Speaker 4 (07:10):
It's a little bit different than my mom and I
when I was a teenager.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
I thought it would be.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Easier because he was a boy child. But we are
doing things that are certainly thirteen year old teenage type
and it has been an experience. It's only been about
a month since he's been a teenager, but yeah, it's
an experience.
Speaker 1 (07:37):
Okay, well you told us like some of the sweet
two lovely parts. What's the most challenging part about being
a mom?
Speaker 4 (07:43):
Oh man, Probably trying to determine if you are teaching
the lessons that you want them to have and giving
them this space to show you if they've gotten it
comprehended or understand it right, even simple things.
Speaker 2 (08:03):
I'll give you an example.
Speaker 4 (08:05):
Maybe a year or two ago, my husband and I
were just kind of just talking about random things, and
I said, what if we're not teaching Mason is his name,
my son?
Speaker 2 (08:15):
What if we're not teaching him like the basics? Like
does he know how to use the washing machine? You know? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (08:21):
But leg have we you know, because in the routine
of everything, you're just like go get your clothes you're
throwing and it's like, but does he know the different cycles? Right?
Speaker 2 (08:31):
Like does he know what?
Speaker 4 (08:33):
How do you do you wash white clothes in hot
water or cold water?
Speaker 3 (08:37):
You know?
Speaker 4 (08:37):
Like because life just moves, right, I mean, he just
knows the clothes or clean? But did we teach him
detergent and bleach for white. Yeah, so it's trying to
like balance. Did we teach him that and then give
them the opportunity to show it? Yeah, so I think that's
been That is really the most terrifying part for me
(08:59):
is have I taught him the basic lessons? You know,
we're always trying to make sure he's going to be
a good person in the world. You know, don't steal,
don't rob, you know, don't curse, and just you know
the pressures of being a teenager.
Speaker 2 (09:11):
And so we're always constantly doing that.
Speaker 4 (09:12):
And of course because I'm a civil servant, you know,
it's kind of like here's what you can't do right,
You're not allowed to yet up, you know, you've got
to turn the other way. But have we taught him
just basic things, you know, running the dishwasher, you know,
having to rinse the dishes really good before you put
him in the dishwasher, you know, just so that those
have been the things that are a little bit terrifying
(09:33):
to me, Like once he gets out in the world,
really know the basics, because we spend so much time
focusing on just being a good civilian.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
Yeah, but what about the small things you know, listen
to you talk. I have to say, this is a
difference between millennial moms and how I grew up. You
got that thirteen damn well.
Speaker 5 (09:56):
Right these dishes like, yeah, you better know how to
bus you are the dishwasher, right, there was no dishwashers,
like you had some money outside and I mean I
did too.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I remember, and we were having this conversation like does
he know how to iron? Yeah? Has he ironed?
Speaker 3 (10:13):
You know?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
I mean we're just thinking, like, but there's something about that.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
I think, like moms now like it is this over
you know, they say it's like helicopter parenting and for
somebody who ain't got no kids and about to have
all the opinions about how moms raising their kids. But
like I hired these people, you know, and it's like, oh,
like you were raised different because it is a different
(10:38):
it's just a different reality for these young kids. And
I I mean I was cooking on a hot stove,
could barely see over it had a little spatula like this, yeah,
making fried baloney sandwiches. And remember I used to bubble
up and like grilled cheese. That was just a part
of life. And so at thirteen, it is kind of
baffling to say, oh, wow, like him, he'll washed his
own clothes, he'll iron his own clothes.
Speaker 2 (10:59):
And I don't know that was better for us as
gen next kid, you know, But.
Speaker 3 (11:03):
You know, I think about my childhood in that respect.
I didn't wash clothes, I didn't cook. My grandmother was there.
I mean, our clothes were clean, folded and in the
drawer or hanging up. You know, she must have gotten
up before daybreak, you know, because I never actually saw
her doing laundry. Yeah, they were just miraculously done. But
(11:28):
we had multi generational households, right, and everybody would live
close by. If they didn't live in the same household,
they lived in the next block or you know, walking
distance away. So yeah, lots different. And you know your
son's wearing no iron shirts, so he doesn't.
Speaker 4 (11:50):
I mean, that's a great point. I mean they wear
things now that are supposed to look like that.
Speaker 2 (11:58):
We didn't. We wanted to be exactly so they look new.
Speaker 3 (12:04):
They say, Christian Janus Sandy, that's old.
Speaker 1 (12:08):
But miss Sandy, you make a good point too, because
at my grandmother's house, I definitely never want We weren't
allowed to touch the washings we weren't allowed as that's
just so when it was her kitchen, her you know,
a basement where a washing dryer was.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
So that's true.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
And I think it is something about multi generational homes,
which disproportionately today even are occupied by black folks. Like
black folks still live in multi generational home we have
a different sense of family and community, I think by
our unique experience.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
In this country. So yeah, I can see that.
Speaker 1 (12:39):
I So I'm loving talking to you about this, Miss Sandy,
because I don't have kids, won't have kids, like you
know that time has passed for me, but I did
want to for a long time, Like in my twenties
as a child, of course, I wanted to. All of
my twenties I dated with the intention of having kids.
And so everybody I went out with the I'm like,
(13:00):
could you make his husband?
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Could you be a good father to my kids? You know, right.
Speaker 1 (13:06):
Right precisely, And I wish that I had been a
little more relaxed than just gotten to know people, and
you know, they didn't know they were signing up to
go to like a life partner test. And then in
my thirties my attitude started to shift, you know, I
have kind of figured life out. I started making some
disposable income, you know, I could travel how I wanted.
(13:27):
And I also started doing work on myself, you know,
therapy and like unpacking things. Here's what I realized about
my motherhood aspirations. I wanted to have this family unit.
I wanted to marry the man. They say, you either
marry your father or who you thought your father should
have been, who you would have desired your father to be.
(13:47):
So I definitely was looking for this, you know, very professional,
ambitious man.
Speaker 2 (13:54):
To be his clear huxtable.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
You know. I wanted to have that traditional family and
be there and cook for my kids and you know,
have this home of stability and security. What I realized
is I was trying to right the wrongs of my
own childhood. And that's not a reason to create that exactly.
And thank god, because had I found that in my twenties,
I for sure would have been divorced by my forties,
(14:19):
you know, like I would and you know what people say,
that's not true.
Speaker 2 (14:22):
Different me. I promise you I would have made sure
my husband got custody of those kids. I would have
loved listen.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
I would have been there. I would have loved my children.
They would come to my house anytime. They would have
a key to my house and that day to day,
let that negro get up in the morning and pack
your lunch and get do the school. And because I
would have done it for so long, so I know
motherhood is the hardest job and so I respect it
and honor it. But I have to say at this age,
(14:48):
I don't have any regrets about.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
I don't have any regrets, but I love hearing.
Speaker 3 (14:55):
And the other part of that is to find a
main at this stage in my life. Not a husband
of me would be an individual who would have to
have had that experience already.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
Yeah, right, go yourandkids.
Speaker 3 (15:14):
But you know, I've met a few who've you know,
stayed still stayed with their mamas. You know, we've never
been married and don't have any kids. So yeah, and
I think to your point some of my realization that
(15:37):
everybody isn't the marrying kind. I grew up in what
I now know was a loving family, but love wasn't expressed,
and so I struggle with expressing my feelings. You know,
we've worked through a lot of that now, but that's
something that we have to deal with. My parents were disciplinarians,
(16:00):
you know. They didn't you know, pick you up and
hug you when you fell down. You know, is are
you bleeding? No? Okay, get up?
Speaker 2 (16:09):
Yeah yeah, where are you going?
Speaker 3 (16:12):
You know? So so very different. But yeah, the the
other scary part for me as a community activist, I
was always terrified that somebody was going to do something
to a child that I brought into this world and
I have to end up in jail because I'd.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Have to kill them.
Speaker 3 (16:28):
Yeah, you know, so it's it is a lifetime commitment.
Speaker 4 (16:34):
You know.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
They don't just go away when they turn eighteen, you know.
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
I mean, how many of us are dependent upon our parents,
you know, well in adulthood, and we have more of
that today.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
Well, a shift happens because I think my parent is
more dependent on me. I'm dependent on her though in
the sense of I want her alive and well and healthy,
and I don't know what I would do on this
planet without her. Some dependent in that way, But it
is interesting when the shift starts to happen. And that's
another thing about multi generational households and our unique experience
(17:10):
in this country is there are so many of us.
I think something like sixty two percent of all black
college graduates send money home to their parents help their parents,
and that has cut into black wealth by twenty seven percent,
So twenty seven percent of our wealth has decreased. When
it comes to white folks, fifteen percent of them send
money and help out their parents. So there's something about
(17:33):
that in the strain that you can have sometimes where
you're trying to take care of a child and a
parent and hold down a career and manage a marriage.
Speaker 3 (17:41):
You know.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
So, how long were you married before you had your son?
Speaker 1 (17:44):
Well, we actually had our son before we were married, okay,
all right? How long we all together before you had
this son?
Speaker 2 (17:51):
About three years? Okay?
Speaker 1 (17:52):
And those three years was it like blissful and passionate?
Speaker 2 (17:59):
You know the whole time rides you can't wait to
see him? I can't wait.
Speaker 4 (18:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (18:03):
Absolutely.
Speaker 4 (18:04):
We actually just celebrated our tenure mary anniversary, our wedding anniversary,
thank you, just a few weeks ago. But we've been
together fifteen years but married ten So Mason had just
turned three when we got married. But I believe or not,
I did not want children really yeah, yeah, yeah, So
I mean I did not grow up like I can't wait.
Speaker 2 (18:23):
To be a mother. I was also very, always, very
career driven.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
Even when I met David, the first thing I told
him was, you know, I'm focused on my career. I
graduated from grad school. HBCU grad, you can tell me nothing.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Where'd you go? Albany State University? I went down, run
a h people, I'm gonna die hard, Golden ram too,
die hard.
Speaker 4 (18:48):
And so, I mean, I just graduated from grad school
and you just couldn't tell me anything. And I was like,
I am career driven, dot man, it's gonna stop me,
you know, so you just get on this bandwagon.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
And he was like here a right, yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
And then while I yeah, yeah, and I mean a
complete shock because I just that's not the career.
Speaker 2 (19:11):
That's not the life that I had envisioned.
Speaker 4 (19:13):
I was going to be a lawyer with a penthouse
and a range rover, doing my thing like that.
Speaker 2 (19:20):
I was not interested in all. I mean, I had
it all planned out, all planned out, and.
Speaker 4 (19:27):
From being young, I mean I knew immediately that I
was that's the path I was going on. So to
have a surprise like that, I mean, that's a surprise,
but not a surprise of me.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Obviously, we weren't preventing it.
Speaker 4 (19:39):
Yeah, but I mean just in my mind, the plan
was the plan, right, so you know, human anatomy wasn't
going to start that, and it surely did. And so
I had, like, you know, a life decision like on
the line, what will I do?
Speaker 2 (19:55):
I never thought i'd did in that situation.
Speaker 4 (19:57):
I have to make that decision and obviously made the
decision to be responsible and go forward with it. And
I felt like I had the right person and that
just wasn't then the plans for me.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (20:09):
And my husband grew up in a two parent household.
His grandmother moved in with them when he was young,
so he, I mean, they the family dynamics was always
with him. So he was and is a I mean
when I say a tremendous father, even because I'm so busy,
I mean he is mister mom and has no problem
(20:33):
doing it. I mean and just I mean absolutely all in.
And he wants a football team worth of children. I
think that we have, you know, I don't. Yeah, so
we're you know, still trying to compromise there, but ten
years having another one, I usually not okay, Okay, I'm
open to if if God goes around this birth control. Yes,
(20:55):
then sure enough, then meant to be here and we
will have another.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:59):
I always tell people with like only you know, the
like single child. I'm like, oh, but they're going to
have only child syndrome. And one of my friends of
their couple, they told me, they said, that's somebody else's problem.
Speaker 2 (21:08):
That's not our problem. True.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
There's a lot of friends around and cousins, and you know,
you just gotta you know, you gotta make your way.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
Yeah, you have to, you know, it's it's life. It's
like we put one here exactly.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
So you said something earlier, Miss Sandy, which I think
resonates of course with you as a mom, but I
think with a lot of people who make that decision,
and that you were worried about bringing a child in
this world and something happening to them. I also think
that is very specific to black women, you know, because
of the trauma, yes, that we have trauma precisely, we
have long suffered in watching how this world treats our babies.
(21:51):
And and that's another thing where you and I are
not mothers. But if your son came in here, he
is mine, he is heard, you know, like I if
you see a kid anywhere, a black kid anywhere, and
it's like, let me hold this child, let me make
sure this child is say like you.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
We're your parents, where your mama?
Speaker 1 (22:07):
And everyone feels the right that they have something to
comment on, Like you could be walking and it's cold
and somebody say you need to put a hat on
that baby.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
You know, and just in our community, it's just altural.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
It's a cultural that you don't have. You're not allowed
to say, mind your business. This is like yes, ma'am, yes, ma'am. Exactly. Okay,
y'all already know the streets are talking, talking, talking. So
there is something I think just maternal about being a
black woman in this country. And there is also something
(22:40):
very true to a black womanhood about the trauma that
we suffered. So we're gonna watch this cut together where
someone is talking about the trauma of motherhood.
Speaker 6 (22:52):
Yeah, I don't think people really recognize or consider the
mental well.
Speaker 2 (22:57):
Being of moms. There's nowhere of the resource, there's no resources.
Speaker 6 (23:01):
Nobody even wants to discuss how motherhood can impact your
mental health. I had a whole conversation on an episode
with a therapist with this same therapy, and we had
a conversation around how motherhood can affect your mental health.
Imagine worrying about someone else all of the time in
addition to the other things that you're trying to juggle.
(23:24):
And this is a constant job. And like I told you,
just because they become adults, that does not necessarily mean
that goes away. That's another level of worry and another
level of motherhood at that point. But nobody wants to
talk about the fact that motherhood has absolutely has an
impact on our mental health and our mental well being.
(23:46):
I have PTSD from motherhood, and I will shot that
from the mountaintop.
Speaker 1 (23:51):
I mean, yes, I'm gonna like, how has motherhood impacted
your mental health?
Speaker 6 (23:58):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (23:58):
Man, that is I need to find that clip. Yeah,
that's spot on.
Speaker 4 (24:04):
It reminded me when I when we first had Mason,
uh and just kind of getting adjusted to going back
to work. I remember that the feeling of not being
able to think about anything else from the time you
wake up to the time you wake back up. I mean,
(24:26):
it was just constant, and I remember that being a
thing I had never felt before. I know he's in
a safe place, but I'm thinking, did he eat everything
that the grandmother tried to feed him, right, and that's
a worry, right was the milk too hot or too cold?
I mean just you just constantly thinking what are we
going to eat for dinner? I never spent so much
(24:47):
time planning meals, you know, I mean.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
You didn't because it's just you. You know, you eat,
you don't eat. You find it.
Speaker 4 (24:53):
You know, if someone else is depending on you making
a decision, and if you don't, it just doesn't have
right and then that person is just affected by it.
I remember that being one of the most difficult emotions
to figure out, and it's not something that they tell
you at the ob g U I N. I'm sure
(25:14):
that our mothers felt that same feeling, but it's I've
never heard that conversation.
Speaker 2 (25:20):
It's all you know. They always say.
Speaker 4 (25:21):
It's different, you know, it's going to be difficult, you'll
you'll get through it, you know. And I had a partner,
so it's like, y'all are figure it out, you know,
But that specific emotion and it's still there of like
just constant worry because without your decision, that person goes
(25:41):
without that That is almost all consuming. You have to
teach yourself and I'm still doing that how to compartmentalize
and be okay, Like just calm yourself down, just like
they're okay, you know, even without that decision, that moment
(26:03):
you know they're okay, and that's that's PTSD.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Okay, Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
There was an article in the New York Times in
September and they talked about The headline was ignore your
kids more, and it was pretty much like you know,
the helicopter.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
It doesn't work, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
And the truth is, if you don't cook your son
dinner one night, I bet he'll figure out how to eat,
you know. So I wonder, but that's a small thing
you're saying. I want to first acknowledge the just the
worry that comes with parenting. And I can only talk
about parenting in motherhood as a child, as someone's child,
(26:42):
And I am a grown woman, been taking care of
myself for thirty plus years, and my mother still wants
to know, did you make it?
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Did you land? Okay? Did you get home?
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Like if she just randomly hoss And I'm like, I'm
walking from home schools going back, Okay, well text me
you get in.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Hell, I'm not gonna do it.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
I was just telling our executive producer. Sometimes my well
text me like, Hey, did you land in Atlanta yet?
Speaker 2 (27:04):
And I'm like, nope, the plane crash. You didn't see it.
I like that. I know I'm terrible.
Speaker 3 (27:10):
I know my mom is gone, but I'll never forget
working at Georgia Pacific. I think my office. My office
was definitely on the thirty eighth floor because my father
wouldn't go up that high. And my mom called the
main number to Georgia Pacific because she heard a report
of some tragic thing that happened somewhere in Atlanta and
(27:31):
she just wanted somebody to tell her that I wasn't
anywhere near that. Well. She didn't realize I was hr.
So the operator called me, it's Sandy, I have your
mom on the phone. You want to talk to No,
I don't want to talk to her. She's trying to
be anonymous. But you know, those are things that you know.
I was forty something, yes, yeah, you know, and still
(27:55):
trying to figure out ways too.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
I'm forty something trying to figure that out. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (28:00):
But the worry for her and my mother, as I said,
she wasn't the the grab you, hug you, kiss you,
I love you kind of mom but that worry was
still there and demonstrated in any number of ways, any
number of times.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
Well, you said something that really strikes me, And how
long ago this is your mom being gone?
Speaker 2 (28:25):
How long ago? About five years?
Speaker 1 (28:27):
So my mother prayer for lee and I'm blessed to
say it's still with me. We've had some health scares,
but my mother is doing great. She's fine in here.
But I so were like, I'm not going to be
right when she's not here, Like I'm bracing myself for that,
because that's the cycle of life. You know. We know
we're here for a finite amount of time, We have
our parents for a finite amount of time. And just
(28:49):
the thought of being on this earth without her, I
can't it does not compute. My mind cannot imagine it.
So I do think about people. You don't have kids,
So I'm someone I don't have children, and then when
my mother goes, I will be an orphan. So how
does the I will because I won't have parents and
(29:09):
I don't have kids. So the question I ask myself
is how does the branch survive without the.
Speaker 2 (29:17):
Root or the leaf?
Speaker 1 (29:19):
When you're just here, it feels like you're floating and oblivion.
I don't have another life to live for, so right
now I live for my mother. I take care of her,
make sure she's you know, everything I can do for her,
I do it. And when that goes away, I do
question like, oh, well then what is life like that.
I'm not a tech. I don't regret the decision about
not having kids, but that is a real question that
(29:41):
I think we have to ask ourselves.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
So do you think about that? And how have you
navigated that?
Speaker 3 (29:45):
First of all, I would never consider myself an orphan,
even though both my parents are gone and I don't
have children. It's a mindset. I'm selfish. I'm going to
look out for me. I have two sisters, one on
either side. I'm a middle child, so you know, one
in California, one in New Jersey. They have children, Their
(30:09):
children have children, now, you know, so it's there's plenty there.
Are you an only child?
Speaker 4 (30:16):
No?
Speaker 2 (30:16):
I have a brother? Yeah, you have my mom.
Speaker 1 (30:19):
I have older brother and my brother has she was
my father three or not remarried because he wasn't married
to my mom. But my father married and I have
two half brothers and they live elsewhere, but in the
house where I grew up with my mom.
Speaker 2 (30:31):
It was me and my brother.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
My brother has two nephews or two sons. Yes, and
as the older they've gotten, we've gotten closer, Like you
can text me and call me directly.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
He's not married to their mom anymore.
Speaker 3 (30:43):
So yeah, I have If your mom missing around, they're
still going to be around.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
And I hope they mostly when they need something, to
want something, but that's okay, I don't mind.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
So yeah, do your sisters have you.
Speaker 3 (30:58):
My sisters have children. My oldest sister has six, My
baby sister has one, okay, and my oldest sister allowed
me to adopt one of her boys. So he's my favorite.
Speaker 2 (31:13):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (31:14):
So yeah, he's the reason I stay on Facebook because
that's how I keep up with what he's doing. He's
in San Diego. Yeah, but you know, just talk with him.
He's probably gonna head this way before the holidays around night.
And he has a son who is a mini me.
I mean they just look like twins.
Speaker 1 (31:30):
Yeah, so he told you he did you de bois,
there were like he both ours, but he stay at
my house.
Speaker 3 (31:37):
Because you know, I don't want him stay at my house.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
I love that. Did you literally adopt him or you just.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
He's mine.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
Yes, he is yours because you deemed it so love it.
That is the best part of motherhood. You got the
best of him and I don't and I don't.
Speaker 2 (32:00):
Have to deal with the phs dish.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Yeah right, yeah, yeah, Now what about those days where
it was a long.
Speaker 2 (32:09):
Day at the mayor's office. That's every day?
Speaker 1 (32:11):
But yeah, okay, so every day it's a long day
at the mayor's office, you are exhausted, and your husband
helps out, but you have to come home and you
got to figure out new maths.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
You know, you got to get on a PTA.
Speaker 1 (32:25):
Call, maybe doing a Jack and jeial meeting, you you know,
all the things that happen.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
Are there days where you're like damn, like this is
a lot?
Speaker 4 (32:38):
Oh yeah, oh yeah, many of those days, yeah, many, many,
many of those days. But as challenging as it is,
I try to think of it as you know, my
career should not intentionally take away from my son's life's experiences.
It happens unintent because I just can't be everywhere. But
(33:04):
it is a sacrifice that he is making without having
to have a choice in that sacrifice. So I think
about how long will I do this I started when
he was.
Speaker 2 (33:19):
Six.
Speaker 4 (33:19):
He just turned six, So most of the life that
he will remember thus far, he's been in this from
being on the city council to be a mayor and
he didn't have a choice, and he doesn't have a choice.
Every day he carries our name, so he can't do
(33:40):
things that other kids do. He wants to go to
a school in another district and he can't.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Yeah, he just can't. He wants to.
Speaker 4 (33:48):
So there's things he can't do, and he doesn't understand,
you know. He sees other kids transferred and he's like,
it's simple.
Speaker 2 (33:57):
God might know we don't live there. So yeah.
Speaker 4 (34:01):
So it's so with that in mind that I know,
you know, I am unintentionally taking things quote unquote away
from him because of this role. I try as much
as I can to be thoughtful about the things that
that I can give him as a trade off for
(34:21):
the life he didn't ask for, and hoping that this
experience that we all are going through as a family
with me being elected, that he gets something out of
it that he can use later on, you know, rather
he's a politician or not, that he can use the experiences,
the opportunities the people that we meet to that lands
(34:46):
somewhere with him and hopefully he'll forgive me yes for
some of the restraints.
Speaker 2 (34:53):
I mean, that's the thing.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
My friend Rachel told me this and it just changed
my whole life on how I saw motherhood.
Speaker 2 (35:00):
But she says, an amazing mom. She three kids, and she.
Speaker 1 (35:03):
Said to me one day, He's like, you know, these kids,
you do your best, and you do the best you
can and whatever you've done for them, it could be
the best thing or the worst thing. Like you just
don't know, You just don't. You do your best. And
that's true. Like my mom did the best for me,
you know, and as as wonderful mom as you can be.
Still ten twenty years now, this boy is still gonna
(35:23):
be on a therapist couch, you know. Like my mom
gave me so much confidence and now I'm trying to
figure out Like.
Speaker 2 (35:28):
It's nothing, you know. Ye yeah, we all have to
work out our stuff. There's no barometer at all. Yeah,
even my mom. I have twin brother who doesn't have children.
I'm a twin. Oh wow, I'm a twin. What if
you had twins? The next one might be twins.
Speaker 4 (35:44):
That's a story. My husband's father is a twin.
Speaker 2 (35:48):
Oh, then I see you again. You're like girl a
mother three that was so terrified carry this and I
was like, God, please don't do that.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
My rased what I talked about. She has a set
of twins. Yeah, that's how she got the three.
Speaker 4 (36:04):
So my mom says that, you know, having a boy
and girl twin go from no children to one of each.
What's the best thing that ever could happen to her?
She's like, it's one and done. She's like, so you
only had one, so you're gonna be tortured. Yeah, you
could actually have more than more than twins. You can
have triplets. I mean you could just because you didn't
get it out the way. Well you know, I kind of
(36:26):
didn't control that part. But yeah, she was, you're gonna
have twins, don't worry about it. My brother doesn't want
children though, Oh wow, So I guess I'm the only
one that could give her more grandchildren. So she's hoping
that twins or more arrive someday.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Well, do you have time so we'll see. I mean
that God's gotta go around that birth control you can't do.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
I'm not challenging, but I'm not challenging.
Speaker 1 (36:55):
Speaking of Madam mayor speaking of making these twins. I mean,
because everybody's saying kids, it's like ooh, take it out
of you, and some people because I feel like when
it impacts your sex life in your marriage, people are
like I'm tired, like I have nothing to give.
Speaker 2 (37:13):
How do you keep with respect? How hovery much you
want to share?
Speaker 1 (37:16):
Obviously sorry to your husband who probably looking at you like, baby,
I know you ain't went on there.
Speaker 2 (37:22):
I want to hear that answer. How do you keep
your marriage a priority?
Speaker 1 (37:28):
You know, with holding a full time career and raising
a kid and like not just your marriage, but like
the romance in your marriage, and not just the love
in your marriage, but the like in your marriage and
just checking in with each other?
Speaker 2 (37:39):
How do you navigate that?
Speaker 4 (37:41):
So he does a much better job of keeping the
barometer than I do. Yeah, he is definitely the one
that's like, hey, it's time shut it down. Yes, yes,
And although I'm sure I know that's got to be
frustrating for him, especially because in a traditional role, and
again he grew up with a two parent household. He
(38:02):
watched his mother be everything and still is to his father.
So now he's in his own household when he doesn't
see the same experience that that he watched his when
he was growing up, so he is much better at it.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
He will put his foot down and go, that's enough.
Speaker 4 (38:23):
It's time, you know you, you need to break away
from all that. And what's even more surprising to me,
but I'm grateful for it, is that he will even
say that when it comes to our son. I mean,
he is wholeheartedly us first, then that kid.
Speaker 2 (38:42):
Yeah, I mean that's definitely the way it should be.
Speaker 4 (38:44):
But it's like I said, I'm surprised because he's a male,
but grateful that he kind of has that.
Speaker 2 (38:53):
Enough.
Speaker 4 (38:53):
He just yeah, he's just like, you know, it's us
than him. Yeah, and then all that other stuff you
got going on. So he is much better at it
than I am. I wish that I had enough compartments
to do it all.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
Yeah, there's something seductive about that too, maybe like when
your husband is like you're my party, he says, you
know enough, it's time to shut it down.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
It's like, oh, daddy, like you talk. I'll tell you.
Speaker 4 (39:26):
I am learning to be more receptive to it because
I mean, as a strong independent woman, my first reaction is.
Speaker 2 (39:35):
Right, right, Yeah, a launder list of things, you know,
talk about.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
And then so I'm learning and we're learning through this
mayoral experience kind of where the limits are, you know,
what is the absolute I have to do this, David,
I cannot leave this hanging versus all right, let me
let me put this to the side.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
So it is certainly.
Speaker 4 (40:02):
Him ninety percent that keeps that on the forefront for
us and helps us really stay engaged with each other. Yeah,
because I'm transactional.
Speaker 2 (40:14):
Yeah, I will.
Speaker 4 (40:15):
Go and go and and I was raised by a
single parent, so she was go, go, go, go, go,
and and loved. We didn't do a lot of hugging
and kissing. But she also was I mean we're from Philadelphia,
she you know, just from the streets. So she was
just like, I love you, but get up. So it
was just a very loving household, but very transactional. So
(40:36):
that is that's what I know.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (40:38):
But he, on the other hand, like I said, his mother,
his father, his grandparents, he has an older brother, you know,
so there's just there was a lot more to it
than just you know, kind of get up and go.
Speaker 2 (40:48):
So I'm grateful that we have that.
Speaker 4 (40:52):
It's balanced, although it's opposite experiences. It certainly helps us
balance it. But I have to give him the credit.
Speaker 1 (40:58):
He's much better out of the black dads and the
black husbands out there. Who's a leader enough where you
can say yes, I can understand that. And I think
it's something too for us to get in touch with
our own affection with each other after growing up in
households where love was understood but not expressed. So I
love that we're creating these spaces with and for each other.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
I want to ask you both this question.
Speaker 1 (41:23):
I'll start with you because you are a public servant,
a politician, and I hate to even give this shine
because it's felt utterly stupid and ridiculous. But these comments
from the right about if you don't have children, if
you're not married, you shouldn't be able to vote. Your
vote doesn't count as much and you're not invested in
the future. So right, that's the other thing that don't
(41:43):
take my tax dollar. You know, it's such a conservative,
white male perspective, like I'm utterly disgusted that it has.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
Taking place on the national stage.
Speaker 1 (41:54):
And treat it with normalcy, you know, treat it like
this is a regular thing to say. So a politician
running like he's a commander in Gilead is making these
absurd comments about motherhood. You know, it's just bizarre. Do
you have any thoughts about that that that talks as
a public servant, an elected official, a mother, a wife,
(42:16):
What are your thoughts about people who are suggest that
our civic engagement should be reduced because we don't have
families in his mind?
Speaker 2 (42:26):
What that looks like. It's just wild.
Speaker 4 (42:28):
It's just absolutely wild.
Speaker 2 (42:32):
It's hard to put in words how absurd that is.
It's hard to ask the question. I mean, it's insane.
It's just absolutely insane.
Speaker 4 (42:44):
Yeah, I mean there's no I can't think of a
government service.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
That is based on things like I just can't. I mean,
you still need sanitation.
Speaker 4 (43:00):
Right water, roads, right lights, You still need to be
able to have housing, you still need to be able
to have a strong economy. I mean, I just can't
think of government that separates people based on parenthood. Yeah,
I mean, it's just it's just wild. It's absolutely wild.
(43:23):
There's there's no excuse for it. I would like to
apologize to everyone who has to hear that. I apologize
becauseous it's ridiculous and it's just it's not the representation
of government. Yeah, that's that's the representation of something different,
(43:43):
that's a different show.
Speaker 2 (43:44):
Yes, yes, but it's not government.
Speaker 1 (43:47):
The scary thing is, though, like I think they're, you know,
in what they call the Mani sphere where some of
these right wing talking points have penetrated, like this tiny
sect of black men. Most black men are amazing, wonderful,
Y'a've heard about many on this show, amazing husband's, fathers, uncles, grandfathers,
et cetera. But there's a tiny sect of black men
who parents these talking points and who say, you know,
(44:07):
they traffic in misogyny and sexism and say, well, you're
not fulfilling your role as a woman, or you're you know,
a high value woman who put career over family.
Speaker 2 (44:16):
It's a really weird thing.
Speaker 1 (44:18):
So it's scary that people are listening to that and
repeating it. And shame on you, people who are voting
and thinking like some of these folks, and shame on
you for paring in those talking points. But miss Sandy,
what do you think about that perspective, because essentially they're
saying you should not have a right to vote.
Speaker 3 (44:34):
It's not a perspective and it's not something that I
want to talk about because it puts it in the air.
I want us to stop giving them airtime.
Speaker 1 (44:43):
On that note, I think we have given it too
much airtime, exactly. And I want to take a directive
from Miss Sandy because when she said it, she also
gave me that look like it's time to move on.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
And I respectfully.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
Agree, yes, agree, hard agree well. I love this conversation.
I love the multi generational perspective from both of you.
Speaker 2 (45:04):
Miss Sandy.
Speaker 1 (45:05):
I'm so happy to hear that you're like joyful in life,
because I feel incredibly joyful. I have no regrets about
decisions I made about kids, and it's just grateful to
know that decades from now, I'll still feel the same way.
If you're listening to this and not watching this, you
cannot tell. But Miss Sandy looks so good. All these
fashionable glasses, pen stripe, suit rich.
Speaker 3 (45:26):
This is traditional, sheeersucker.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Oh yeah, it looks it's very fitting, very becoming. I
love it.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
I love it, yes, yes, yes, yes, And this HBC
you love I love as well. So, Madam Mayor, I
humbly requests that you run for Congress.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Consider it. You have a presence about you.
Speaker 1 (45:48):
I would like to see this perspective in this face
in the federal government. I know you're going to work
here in Stonecrest, but you know, you never know you
can juggle twins and and commuting. You know, you know
well because the part of me is like, we do
need more black babies raised by people like you, So
why not let's populate.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
But really, thank you ladies so much.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
I just the last time we did this show, I
started out by quoting a movie, and I was saying,
motherhood is a mental illness, because that's.
Speaker 2 (46:18):
What Jabo said in the movie Hustler.
Speaker 4 (46:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:21):
Yeah, it's true, because you will like kill yourself to
save your child, you know, like without question. So I
just honor and respect moms. But I also honor and
respect those of you who choose not to be moms.
And if you are lucky enough to still have your
mom with you, thank her for the work and sacrifice
because biologically she is wired to love you and sacrifice
(46:42):
herself and your name.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
So thank you all for those perspectives.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
And listen, if you wanted kids and you didn't have kids,
and that time has passed you, I hope that you
find joy in life, things happen as they're supposed to,
and there's a lot of life left to live and
a lot of freedom. Embrace that freedom that being childless
may afford you and do something nice for yourself because
everybody can do that every day, even moms out there.
(47:07):
Do something nice for you deserve, do something nice for yourself.
So thank you guys for tuning in to this episode.
We'll be back next week with another episode of Across
Generations and I'm Your Host Tiffany Cross. Across Generations is
brought to you by Wolfpacker and Wolpacker Media in partnership
with iHeart Podcast, I'm Your Host and executive producer Tiffany D.
(47:27):
Cross from Idea to Launch Productions Executive producer Carla willmeris
produced by Mandy b and Angel Forte, Editing, sound design
and mixed.
Speaker 2 (47:37):
By Gaza Forte.
Speaker 1 (47:38):
Original music by Epidemic Sound Video editing by Kathon Alexander
and Courtney Dani
Speaker 3 (01:03:00):
Passssssssssssssssssssssss
Host
Tiffany Cross
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