July 11, 2018 • 30 mins
If conversations about reproductive health don't address the needs of Black people, then they're not real conversations. In this episode, Monica Simpson and Michaela Angela Davis drop facts on reproductive justice, and Bridget and Yves get real about perceptions of Black pain.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:07):
When I was in my twenties, I moved to New
York City on a whim. I didn't have much money,
and I was more or less squatting an empty apartment.
I slept on an air mattress on a tile floor,
and I barely knew anyone. On the way to my
third day of a brand new job, I got sick
on the subway platform. A stranger rubbed my back and
held my hair. Do you think you might be pregnant, honey,
(00:28):
she asked in a hushed tone. A few days later,
I took the subway to a clinic. I didn't tell anybody,
and I went alone. On the cab ride back to
my apartment, I was feeling really weak and could barely move.
The driver double parked and helped me make it up
the four flights of stairs to my apartment. He helped
me inside. I crawled into bed with all my clothes on,
(00:50):
and cried and cried for what seemed like hours. I've
never felt more ashamed or alone, but I wasn't alone.
You're listening to afrop Punk Solution Sessions. I'm your host Brigittad,
and I'm your co host Eve Jeff co acro Punk
(01:11):
is a safe place, a blank space to freak out in,
to construct a new reality, to live our lives as
we see fit, or making sense of the world around us.
Here at Afro Punk, we have the conversations that matter
to us, conversations that lead to solutions. On today's episode,
(01:33):
we're talking about what reproductive justice looks like for us.
The right to have a baby, the right to raise
that baby in a safe community, the right to not
have a baby if you don't want to, the right
to access information about your own body and health to
make informed choices. The right to not have anything done
(01:56):
to your body without your consent. And when you were started,
they let you do it. You can do anything whatever
you want. We talk a lot about reproductive rights, but
too often those conversations center white, middle class women. Here's
activists and writer MICHAELA Angela Davis after a Punk Solution
sessions in Atlanta. I have a whole different relationship to
(02:17):
plan parenthood as right, like it was CECIL and it
was Pink Hats, that representative organization that most of us needed.
So that trying to kind of close that fissure of
the separation of these big national movements and US and
(02:38):
like what I said at the Women's March for black women,
like all this hair can't get up under pink pussy hats, right, So,
and also these are symbols that black women don't resonate with.
I don't resonate with a pussy hat, I don't resonate
with a slut walk, right So part of that also
kind of excludes us just by them symbolism like we
(03:01):
wear like black berets and leathern jacksons ship when we
haven't a you know, a revolution, like we're gonna become fly.
While working at Planned Parenthood, I saw the ways that
folks that the margins have not always been included, affirmed
and centered and conversations around feminism, particularly when it comes
to reproductive rights. White women are not the only women
who should be involved in conversations around sexual health, and
(03:24):
too often our black, trans, queer and non binary people
are left out of the conversation entirely. And this is
a problem. We live in a country where one in
three trans people and forty percent of trans men have
delayed or avoided preventative healthcare like pelvic exams or s
t I screenings out of fear of discrimination or disrespect.
Folks at the margins are disproportionately impacted by sexual and
(03:47):
reproductive health disparities, and when it comes to reproductive healthcare
for LGBTQ folks, the word care can be kind of
a misnomer. Participating in the American healthcare system can mean
going to beat with anti blackness, antiqueer miss miseducation, and
just straight up ignorance. Good care care that recognizes and
respects the needs of black, gender nonconforming intersects and trance
(04:08):
people isn't always affordable or accessible, if it's even an
option at all. While accepting an award on behalf of
Martin Luther King in n Credit, Scott King said that
Black communities have no mere academic nor ordinary interest in
family planning. They have a special and urgent concern. She
(04:28):
was right, which is by centering Black communities and conversations
about reproductive health is so important and something that Monica
Simpson talked about Atlanta Afropunk Solution sessions. Black women are
dying at a rate four times higher than white women
and childbirth. That means in terms of us like being
able to like give birth to children, bringing more children
into this world. We are dying at a rate four
(04:50):
times higher than white women and childbirth in the South.
In some cities like New York, the statistics are worse,
where black women are dying at a rate twelve times
higher than white women in childbirth. Black women are only
making sixty four cents on a dollar to take care
of themselves their families. Black women are being criminalized for pregnancy.
(05:10):
They're being criminalized for standing up against domestic violence. Black
women are dealing with a broken immigration system that's tearing
apart our families, that's making it difficult for us to
be able to build the types of family structures that
we want in this country and where that we deserve.
When black women organizers realize their concerns are being ignored
(05:31):
by the abortion rights movement, they created the concept of
reproductive justice. Black women created reproductive justice because we understood
that our lives are inextricably linked from the very real
issues that we all face. So these women are were
standing standing on our ancestors, their shoulders, our ancestors that
(05:54):
were stolen from our land and brought here, our ancestors
that learn how to pack themselves with her to rib
their bodies of the slave master's child, our ancestors whose
bodies were used coercively, and whose bodies were used and violated.
And so as we have these conversations, as we are
all working tirelessly in this movement towards Black liberation, we
(06:19):
can't do that and forget our wounds. We can't do
that and forget about the future generations that will come
through them. We cannot forget about the fact that our
sexual identities, our sexual orientations, our gender, all of that
needs to be centered and not moved to the margins.
Monica Simpson is the current executive director of Sister Song
(06:40):
in Atlanta, a collective that works to improve institutional policies
and systems that impacts the reproductive lives of marginalized communities
in the South. At Afropunk Solution Sessions in Atlanta, Monica
explained that reproductive justice is as much about what's happening
inside our wombs as what's going on outside of them.
If you have a child, it should be your right
to raise that child in an environment free from police violence,
(07:03):
environmental injustice, and economic injustice. Reproductive justice is that connecting
factor in a world where white supremacy tells us that
we were not meant to survive in a world where
white supremacy tells us that we don't deserve a future.
Reproductive justice is answered to that is, yes we do,
and black women will continue to lead that work in
(07:26):
connection with our other sisters, to make sure that we
see the other side. If you live in a community
where you can't raise a child without fearing that shall
be killed by police or gun violence, then you aren't
truly able to exercise reproductive freedom, which is why police
violence is a reproductive justice issue. I hold onto my
own wom when I think about what does it mean
to give birth to a black baby in this world today?
(07:50):
What does it mean for that black baby to come
through this Southern queer black body that's now over the
age of thirty five and so I'm considered geriatric. What
does it mean when I think about and I see
the faces of my nephews Andrew and Luke and Demonte
and think about them growing up as little black boys
in this country. I think about Trayvon Martin's mom. I
(08:11):
think about Mike Brown's mother. I think about Jordan David's mother.
I think about Ayana Stanley's family. I want all of
you to know Sandy was more than a hashtag. That's
what I want everybody to know. Sandra Bland was more
than a hashtag, and we will continue fighting for justice
for her. I even wonder sometime if Sandra Bland was
(08:33):
still with us today, would you want to have children
or not? We'll have more solution sessions after this quick break.
When it comes to abortion, Black women are specifically shamed
for our choices. If we terminated pregnancy, were shamed. If
you bring a child into the world before we're able
to support her, were labeled welfare queens. We can't win.
(08:56):
In two thousand and ten, right here in Atlanta that
we're billboards that went up in this community that said
the most dangerous place for an African American child is
in the mother's womb. This billboard campaign stretched all across
the country, shaming Black women for their reproductive decision making,
shaming us, saying that we were committing genocide on our
(09:18):
own communities because we were deciding not to have children
to end our pregnancies. When this billboard hit, black women
doing reproductive justice work gathered together and said that it
was time for a united response, that we would not
sit silent to any attack against our reproductive freedom, any
attack against our lives, we aren't just shamed from our
(09:41):
own communities, from public policy and laws as well. Just
look at the recent attacks on reproductive health both here
and abroad. On his first day in office, Trump reinstated
the global Gag rule, meaning global health workers overseas cannot
talk about abortion or offer abortion related information, referrals, or
services if they the federal funding. Make no mistake, Black
(10:03):
and brown women and girls will die because of this
rule and here in the United States, or legislation like
Trump's pushed to roll back birth control coverage and the
push for twenty week abortion bands keep Black women from
being in control of our own bodies. These attacks on
our reproductive health aren't just political, their attacks on our agency.
At Afropunk Solution sessions in Atlanta, Planned Parenthood director of
(10:26):
public Engagement Ellensia Johnson called this out. I tell people
all the time that this fight around agency, especially for
black women. For me and I can say this is
I'm Black. They don't want us having babies anymore because
we're not free labor, right Like, I'm not giving birth
to free labor anymore. So what's the point of you
having me having agency over my body to give birth
to a child that I want to live in a
(10:48):
functioning society where they're safe and they don't die when
they're young. Right. I think with the twenty week abortion band,
it is so stigmatizing and criminalizing for women, particularly women
of color, are particularly low income women. Because I want
to contextualize it a little bit, majority of women who
seek an abortion after twenty weeks it is because of
(11:10):
the life of the mother or the child or both
is in danger or and then what is happening back
to Dorian's question of what's happening in the States while
they have these waiting periods for folks if they go
and they say they want to have an abortion, so
you might have a four d eight hour ten seven
two hour waiting period. Well, if you are a low
income woman, or if you have multiple kids and you
(11:30):
don't have childcare, you don't have a job where you
can take off multiple days, or you don't have a
car or the money or the resources to drive a
hundred miles. You can't go somewhere and then go home
and then take more days off. But guess what happens.
Then you're continuing to delay a pregnancy. So while you
have decided, you made this decision about your body, maybe
(11:51):
like ten weeks in because of all these laws, of
these restrictive laws, your past twenty weeks right, And so
they've created and they being the opposition, this very white
leg conservative movement, who I don't think our Christians. My
daddy is a pastor and supports women's agency. They co
opted Jesus. They are over here, they have They are
(12:12):
over here telling women that we cannot make the best
decisions for our lives and that for some reason there's
something wrong with us for making a very difficult decision.
When you've got into twenty weeks, that is a very
difficult decision. I have friends that that's that's actually happened too.
And so I think the push back on these attacks,
you have the people in d C, the political folks,
(12:33):
advocate folks who are doing their work. But I need
black women, especially to come forward and tell stories. Gabby saying,
I used to work at Playing Parenthood Together. Her work
involves talking to black women about shame to health, de
stigmatized conversations around abortion, sexuality, and reproductive health. Growing up
(12:54):
in the church, in a very conservative church, we were
allowed to wear makeup. We were told we're in makeup.
Wasn't what she it right, And so I didn't wear makeup,
and Ton was about five years old. At first I
didn't know how, and I still don't know how. But
second it was something that I was taught. I had
big lips. They said, you have big lips. You don't
need to emphasize your big lips anymore. I was born
with hips in a big, old fat ass, and it
(13:15):
just has been here my entire life, and I was
taught that you need to cover it up right. I
didn't wear short skirts, I didn't wear things that hung
to my hips because I was taught very early on
that I should be ashamed of my body. So, in
thinking about stigma and shame, it would be great for
you all just to tell us a short story about
(13:36):
shame and how it showed up in your life and
how you overcome it um and and advice that you
give other young people, young women in particular, about overcoming
the stigmas that hold us down. Here was Jessica Bird
at Atlanta Afro Punk Solution Sessions. My aunt told me
at a very young age that I was frisky, right,
and it messed me up for a very long time
(13:57):
because I felt so much shame and so that she
was like, because I was out there in my glory, honey,
I used to love to, you know, walk in my
dresses and I would be all in front of everybody.
I just love to be a bit of an exhibitionist.
And she's like, but you're frisky, and so I would.
I held onto that and it made me really really
like just shrink inside of myself, like I cannot stand
(14:18):
and walk in my fullness. And I carried that with
me through my adolescence where I started having sex at
a very young age. Right again, I grew up in
this small rural town and that's not a lot to do,
but we figured out you could do it very easily,
you know, in the South. So I did, you know,
and my other friends were doing it, and we were
having lots of sex, but nobody was helping to educate
(14:39):
us on like what that meant, and so we felt
like we had to keep this really silent. And then
when someone ended up pregnant, then they were shamed for it.
But I'm like, what you all were not even providing
a space for us to talk about what our bodies
are doing and like all these things that's running through us.
I want to have sex, I think anyway, I don't know, right,
But those conversations um but became very shaming because nobody
(15:00):
to have the conversation about six. It's not just our
sexualities or lips or booties that make us feel shame.
Sometimes it's what's happening inside our bodies too. So how
many people know what fibroids are. That's Tanka Gray val
Brine and she's talking about her experiences with benign gross
on her uterus called fibroids. She had twenty seven fibroids
(15:20):
removed from her uterus. One in every five women has fibroids.
Million women between the ages of fifteen and fifty will
have them. They're incredibly common in black bodies, yet they're
not really talked about. Janika says she's never worn a
white dress in her life because she constantly worries about
the hemorrhaging that her condition causes. She started the White
Dress Project so women with fribroids wouldn't have to suffer
(15:41):
in silence. But for Chanika, her story really begins with
her mom. She was born um in Saint Elizabeth, Jamaica
to a teacher named Aina and mechanic name Alvin and
growing up on the land in Jamaica. Growing up on
the farm, we had many, many health discussions in our family. UM.
I can give you remedies and concoctions of mint tea
(16:05):
and ginger tea and seracy tea and molasses and yes, yes,
anything that you need, UM to be cured from headaches too,
ankle sprains. I seriously have it me my grandmother, UM,
because that's the type of family we were raised in.
Pharmaceuticals weren't always available to us, so it was important
(16:26):
to figure out how to live off the land and
to basically cure ourselves naturally. UM. So when my mother
started to share her thoughts on fibroids and her journey
with fibroids with me, UM, it was very devastating to me.
At age, my mom lost her first set of twins
due to fibroids. And for those of you who might
not understand that, because fibroids grow in the same area
(16:50):
UM that a baby grows, basically it's fibroids or the baby,
and in my mom's situation, the fibroids suffocated the baby
be so she lost her first set of twins, and
then she got pregnant with me, and I was an
only child and I made it and I'm still an
only child. So she got excited and got pregnant again
and lost a set of twins after me. And through that,
(17:13):
I learned that there is so much power in the
patient story. You don't have to be experiencing fibroids, but
you can have Another ailment that we're not talking about
is women. I don't know about the women in the audience,
but I know that I was taught to be classy, sophisticated.
You don't talk about issues below the belt. You're a woman.
(17:33):
You have your period, you bleed, get over it. But
I realized that there is no way that you can
be hemorrhaging the way that fibroids causes you to hemorrhage.
That you can have the pelvic pressure and pain that
you do and you not speak up for yourself. If
you are silent about your pain, they'll kill you and
say you've enjoyed it through a Neil Hurston once wrote,
(17:55):
as black women, we've been talked to be silent about
our pain, a phenomena nots on one Solution Sessions panelist.
You know, you grow up in a home as a female,
and you are taught to be demure and respectful and subservient.
You know, I grew up in a home where I
got my period and the only conversation that happened was
(18:17):
don't let a boy touch you. That doesn't really take
you very far. And it starts at home, right, It
starts with you being able to have a good sense
of who you are as a woman and be able
to appreciate and and really uplift yourself and and your body.
And so if we don't start having these types of
conversations to normalize what it is that our body is
(18:42):
naturally doing, this is part of like the stigma that's
associated with why you're told not to wear white, why
you're told, um, you know, you don't want anyone to
see you. What why you're told not to talk about
having your period. For the men in the room, we
have periods. Y'all know that it's a thing. It's a
bodily function, it's a human function, and so it's okay
(19:05):
to talk about it. Black women are supposed to be strong.
Just look at the black women we see on TV.
Society tells us that we're expected to shoulder not just
our burdens, but the burdens of everyone else as well.
As a black woman. I just have two things I
want to say about last night's selection. You're welcome. While
(19:28):
all of America was on the edge of their seats
waiting to see if an accused pedophile would get into
the United States Senate, of black women in Alabama voted
for the other guy, because, as my dad says, black
women laugh and joke, but we don't play. The women
who saved us last night were just regular black women.
(19:48):
They were black women in Alabama. Do you know what
they have to go through every day? Those women woke
up yesterday and we're like, I gotta deal with systemic racism,
that gender pay gap, the school to prison pipeline humidity,
and now y'all want me to save a merriment. There
will be more solution sessions after this quick break. Doctors
(20:11):
don't even take our pain as seriously as they do
our white counterparts. But black women do feel pain, and
masking up as what clinical psychologist Jazz Keys calls black superwomen,
is killing us. You know her because you've seen her
so many times. She's bold, fierce and unflinching, seemingly invincible
(20:31):
black lady. But you got me twisted, O G. I'm
always going to eat. In media, you can hear the
idea that the black woman being the superwoman of the
caricature isn't only used to shape fictional personalities in pop culture,
it's also a standard to which society holds all African
American women. And it is that mindset that has passed
(20:52):
down to African American girls and women from generation to generation.
But there's a problem. I don't think it's very sustainable
at all. And if it is sustainable, if a person
survives living this way, we would need to take a
really good look at their health. A new study finds
African American patients are often treated differently when it comes
(21:12):
to medicine and care. The survey of more than five
hundred people, four hundred of the medical students found implicit
bias exists that may help explain why black people are
sometimes undertreated for pain. Among its findings, medical students believe
that African Americans felt less pain than white patients and
even thought their skin was thicker. Dorothy Roberts is a
(21:35):
medical problem or a sociological problem. It's both. I think
what's really important and fascinating about the study is that
it for the first time links what we've long known
is under treatment of pain for black patients with doctors,
or at least medical students, false beliefs about biological differences
(21:55):
based on race. I think you see it everywhere. I
think you see it when you look at the kinds
of black women that become pop culture figures. Think about
women who seem very strong and together, who don't seem
to show cracks. You know, there's this writer Tiffany Doofu
who talks about the first time that her daughter saw
her cry and that she said, Mom, I didn't think
(22:16):
that you felt things like that. I didn't think that
you cried, and how shocking that was for her that
she had created an environment where her daughter, who was
also a young black woman, thought that her own mother
didn't experience normal emotions because that's just the environment that
she established in her household. I think we do carry
a lot of burdens, and we do so silently, because
(22:37):
you know, when you're a black woman, there is so
much of a burden to have it all together, be
polished and perfect, lest somebody think that you're not a
good representative of your of your race and gender. We
deal with so much misogyn or, and I think that's
a function of of why we feel the need to
pretend to be so strong all the time. Right. Not
only is it it's something that it's been stigmatized in
(22:58):
Black women, it's something that has been forced upon to
us by the health care system. So I remember there
was this time when I had a panic attack one
night when I was in college, and I couldn't breathe.
So I was just like, you know, I don't know
if this is a this is connected to the panic
attack or not, but I really feel like I can't
(23:19):
breathe right now, you know. It was really really freaking out,
and so I had to be rushed to the e R.
And I got to the e R. And after waiting
in the e R, we know how slowly they move
and how inefficient it can be. After waiting in the
er for hours and having an I V in my
arm and not being able to be in the room,
I finally got to the doctor and in our three
minute five minute conversation, the conclusion that he came to
(23:42):
was that I had anxiety and that was without doing
any sort of testing, without putting out any other sort
of suggestions for what could be wrong with me before
the conclusion was that I had anxiety because of things
that were going on in my life. You know that
that just really manifested in physical property. And after going
(24:02):
to other doctors, of course, where I landed was going
to a black woman doctor who diagnosed me with an
actual condition, which was like inflammation of my esophagus. So
it wasn't anxiety at all. It wasn't anxiety at all.
I mean, part of me feels it sucks that you
did not get the proper diagnosis. Part of me surprised
you got a diagnosis at all. I've seen that situation
(24:23):
play out where it's it's in your head, go home,
stop googling things, You're fine. And the thing about it
is it's a form of gas lighting. And for me,
I was like, well, maybe this is anxiety because there
is ship going on in my life that could possibly
manifest in something like a panic attack. It was a
conflation of the two. Even though I actually did have
a panic attack, and maybe those sort of things can
(24:44):
manifest in something like a panic attack, that doesn't mean
that I wasn't actually going through a different condition. Yeah,
you know, we see these stories time and time again,
particularly for folks who are marginalized, who just have the
medical care industry take our pain and our issues, see bviously,
because they really don't. And that just goes to show
the importance of what folks like Allencia and Michaela say
(25:04):
that we need to learn how to advocate for each
other and ourselves because a lot of times the medical
community is not here for us, and we need to
take our health into our own hands. At Atlanta Afro
Punk Solution Sessions, Michaela Angela Davis spoke to this need
for Black women to suffer in silence. Black women will
suffer and hold on to pain and and sug through
(25:26):
when we're bleeding for a month. If you all can
relate to that, just click your fingers say amen. But
that I mean, I think that's something that um, we've
also been taught that we we are supposed to hold
burden and that we are supposed to contain pain, and
that we and this is a trope that has been
taught to everyone that black women can just take it.
(25:48):
And so the fact that you're coming into e Er
with five boys because you've been bleeding for Like, that's
that's a problem. So what do we do? How do
we get to a place where we can talk about
our bodies without that isolating stigma and shame. Michaelis says
that one way is to find strength and the power
of sisterhood and centering black women. Well, this is part
of it, right, like making sure that we stay in
(26:10):
sisterhood no matter where we are, whether it's at a festival,
whether it's at our you know, kitchen tables. But for me,
me personally, this whole resistance movement, for me has become
I'm resisting doing white folks work right and really focusing
in on us right and vote and hyper focusing on
(26:33):
Black women and how to um not just center them,
but to amplify them. And we have these tools in
our hands that lets us see each other in numbers,
in in in quality, quantity. So I'm really asking all
of you all who are here, use your use your platform,
(26:54):
use your phone to say that you were here, say
that you're here with your sister, say that that you
support your sister. And I don't know, maybe I'm going crazy,
me listen, like this is really the only way that
I can survive this moment is with inside of sisterhood.
That to me is the antidote to patriarchy, right That
to me is the antidote to white supremacy, and it's
(27:15):
the thing that we've been cultured to avoid. And we
can use that power to make sure that we're standing
up for each other's health and well being because we're
all we got. We don't have to suffer in silence,
and you're not alone. I believe the sisterhood is a superpower.
So part of maybe what we can do today is
commit to supporting each other into making that appointment. Because
(27:39):
also we are also I think conditioned to believe that
we have to do everything by ourselves. And we can
do things for ourselves, but not by ourselves. So it's
somebody is anybody here with a girlfriend like your homie.
So you turn to your girlfriend right now and make
a commitment to supporting her into going to get her
(27:59):
jack up and you all can go together. We need
to squat up right for everything in particulous because I
just learned a bunch of stuff. Olyncia says, we can't
expect black women to be strong all the damn time.
We feel pain, we get tired, we need time to heal.
(28:19):
Let's change the narrative that says otherwise. Well, we have
to also be honest that like, it's time for everybody
to stand with black women and stop coming to us
to fix everything. Somebody let us heal and and so
we you'll see some some posters around here that stand
with black women. Uh, these shirts and posters that we
have out here, it was a black woman who designed
(28:41):
those four plane parenthood and we were like, we need
something that's actually black women censored. And guess what, We're
gonna get a black woman to do it, because it's
time for folks to stand with us, but also let
us lead. But also if I'm tired, let me be tired,
let me be come stand forwards while we're taking it. Yeah,
(29:02):
nobody should get to define the boundaries and borders of
our own bodies but us. When I think back to
my time in that clinic, I felt so alone, but
I wasn't. I was there with the legacy of all
the black women who came before me and helped make
space for me to make choices about my own body.
Had I decided to have a child, These same women
bought for my ability to parent that child safely. We
(29:23):
have to support each other and affirm our rights to
govern our own bodies and our right to make safe,
healthy and informed choices about our experiences. Because if we
don't fight for each other and ourselves, no one else will.
What's the solution? Bridget Center black and queer people and
conversations about reproductive justice. What's the solution, Bridget, Don't be
(29:45):
afraid to speak up about how you feel. What's the solution, Bridget?
Take care of each other. What's the solution? Bridget Buck
stigma and fuck shame? Yeah. M afrop Punk Solution Sessions
(30:12):
is a co production between Afro Punk and How Stuff Works.
Your hosts are Bridget Todd and Eve's Jeff Cope. Executive
co producers are Julie Douglas, Jocelyn Cooper, and Kuan latif Hill.
Dylan Fagan is supervising producer and Kathleen Quillian is audio engineer.
Many many thanks to Casey Pegram and Annie Reese for
their production and editorial oversight, and many thanks to our
(30:35):
on the ground Atlanta crew, Ben Bowland, Corey Oliver, and
Noel Brown. The Underside of Power is performed by Algiers
Connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at afro
Punk
When I was in my twenties, I moved to New
York City on a whim. I didn't have much money,
and I was more or less squatting an empty apartment.
I slept on an air mattress on a tile floor,
and I barely knew anyone. On the way to my
third day of a brand new job, I got sick
on the subway platform. A stranger rubbed my back and
held my hair. Do you think you might be pregnant, honey,
(00:28):
she asked in a hushed tone. A few days later,
I took the subway to a clinic. I didn't tell anybody,
and I went alone. On the cab ride back to
my apartment, I was feeling really weak and could barely move.
The driver double parked and helped me make it up
the four flights of stairs to my apartment. He helped
me inside. I crawled into bed with all my clothes on,
(00:50):
and cried and cried for what seemed like hours. I've
never felt more ashamed or alone, but I wasn't alone.
You're listening to afrop Punk Solution Sessions. I'm your host Brigittad,
and I'm your co host Eve Jeff co acro Punk
(01:11):
is a safe place, a blank space to freak out in,
to construct a new reality, to live our lives as
we see fit, or making sense of the world around us.
Here at Afro Punk, we have the conversations that matter
to us, conversations that lead to solutions. On today's episode,
(01:33):
we're talking about what reproductive justice looks like for us.
The right to have a baby, the right to raise
that baby in a safe community, the right to not
have a baby if you don't want to, the right
to access information about your own body and health to
make informed choices. The right to not have anything done
(01:56):
to your body without your consent. And when you were started,
they let you do it. You can do anything whatever
you want. We talk a lot about reproductive rights, but
too often those conversations center white, middle class women. Here's
activists and writer MICHAELA Angela Davis after a Punk Solution
sessions in Atlanta. I have a whole different relationship to
(02:17):
plan parenthood as right, like it was CECIL and it
was Pink Hats, that representative organization that most of us needed.
So that trying to kind of close that fissure of
the separation of these big national movements and US and
(02:38):
like what I said at the Women's March for black women,
like all this hair can't get up under pink pussy hats, right, So,
and also these are symbols that black women don't resonate with.
I don't resonate with a pussy hat, I don't resonate
with a slut walk, right So part of that also
kind of excludes us just by them symbolism like we
(03:01):
wear like black berets and leathern jacksons ship when we
haven't a you know, a revolution, like we're gonna become fly.
While working at Planned Parenthood, I saw the ways that
folks that the margins have not always been included, affirmed
and centered and conversations around feminism, particularly when it comes
to reproductive rights. White women are not the only women
who should be involved in conversations around sexual health, and
(03:24):
too often our black, trans, queer and non binary people
are left out of the conversation entirely. And this is
a problem. We live in a country where one in
three trans people and forty percent of trans men have
delayed or avoided preventative healthcare like pelvic exams or s
t I screenings out of fear of discrimination or disrespect.
Folks at the margins are disproportionately impacted by sexual and
(03:47):
reproductive health disparities, and when it comes to reproductive healthcare
for LGBTQ folks, the word care can be kind of
a misnomer. Participating in the American healthcare system can mean
going to beat with anti blackness, antiqueer miss miseducation, and
just straight up ignorance. Good care care that recognizes and
respects the needs of black, gender nonconforming intersects and trance
(04:08):
people isn't always affordable or accessible, if it's even an
option at all. While accepting an award on behalf of
Martin Luther King in n Credit, Scott King said that
Black communities have no mere academic nor ordinary interest in
family planning. They have a special and urgent concern. She
(04:28):
was right, which is by centering Black communities and conversations
about reproductive health is so important and something that Monica
Simpson talked about Atlanta Afropunk Solution sessions. Black women are
dying at a rate four times higher than white women
and childbirth. That means in terms of us like being
able to like give birth to children, bringing more children
into this world. We are dying at a rate four
(04:50):
times higher than white women and childbirth in the South.
In some cities like New York, the statistics are worse,
where black women are dying at a rate twelve times
higher than white women in childbirth. Black women are only
making sixty four cents on a dollar to take care
of themselves their families. Black women are being criminalized for pregnancy.
(05:10):
They're being criminalized for standing up against domestic violence. Black
women are dealing with a broken immigration system that's tearing
apart our families, that's making it difficult for us to
be able to build the types of family structures that
we want in this country and where that we deserve.
When black women organizers realize their concerns are being ignored
(05:31):
by the abortion rights movement, they created the concept of
reproductive justice. Black women created reproductive justice because we understood
that our lives are inextricably linked from the very real
issues that we all face. So these women are were
standing standing on our ancestors, their shoulders, our ancestors that
(05:54):
were stolen from our land and brought here, our ancestors
that learn how to pack themselves with her to rib
their bodies of the slave master's child, our ancestors whose
bodies were used coercively, and whose bodies were used and violated.
And so as we have these conversations, as we are
all working tirelessly in this movement towards Black liberation, we
(06:19):
can't do that and forget our wounds. We can't do
that and forget about the future generations that will come
through them. We cannot forget about the fact that our
sexual identities, our sexual orientations, our gender, all of that
needs to be centered and not moved to the margins.
Monica Simpson is the current executive director of Sister Song
(06:40):
in Atlanta, a collective that works to improve institutional policies
and systems that impacts the reproductive lives of marginalized communities
in the South. At Afropunk Solution Sessions in Atlanta, Monica
explained that reproductive justice is as much about what's happening
inside our wombs as what's going on outside of them.
If you have a child, it should be your right
to raise that child in an environment free from police violence,
(07:03):
environmental injustice, and economic injustice. Reproductive justice is that connecting
factor in a world where white supremacy tells us that
we were not meant to survive in a world where
white supremacy tells us that we don't deserve a future.
Reproductive justice is answered to that is, yes we do,
and black women will continue to lead that work in
(07:26):
connection with our other sisters, to make sure that we
see the other side. If you live in a community
where you can't raise a child without fearing that shall
be killed by police or gun violence, then you aren't
truly able to exercise reproductive freedom, which is why police
violence is a reproductive justice issue. I hold onto my
own wom when I think about what does it mean
to give birth to a black baby in this world today?
(07:50):
What does it mean for that black baby to come
through this Southern queer black body that's now over the
age of thirty five and so I'm considered geriatric. What
does it mean when I think about and I see
the faces of my nephews Andrew and Luke and Demonte
and think about them growing up as little black boys
in this country. I think about Trayvon Martin's mom. I
(08:11):
think about Mike Brown's mother. I think about Jordan David's mother.
I think about Ayana Stanley's family. I want all of
you to know Sandy was more than a hashtag. That's
what I want everybody to know. Sandra Bland was more
than a hashtag, and we will continue fighting for justice
for her. I even wonder sometime if Sandra Bland was
(08:33):
still with us today, would you want to have children
or not? We'll have more solution sessions after this quick break.
When it comes to abortion, Black women are specifically shamed
for our choices. If we terminated pregnancy, were shamed. If
you bring a child into the world before we're able
to support her, were labeled welfare queens. We can't win.
(08:56):
In two thousand and ten, right here in Atlanta that
we're billboards that went up in this community that said
the most dangerous place for an African American child is
in the mother's womb. This billboard campaign stretched all across
the country, shaming Black women for their reproductive decision making,
shaming us, saying that we were committing genocide on our
(09:18):
own communities because we were deciding not to have children
to end our pregnancies. When this billboard hit, black women
doing reproductive justice work gathered together and said that it
was time for a united response, that we would not
sit silent to any attack against our reproductive freedom, any
attack against our lives, we aren't just shamed from our
(09:41):
own communities, from public policy and laws as well. Just
look at the recent attacks on reproductive health both here
and abroad. On his first day in office, Trump reinstated
the global Gag rule, meaning global health workers overseas cannot
talk about abortion or offer abortion related information, referrals, or
services if they the federal funding. Make no mistake, Black
(10:03):
and brown women and girls will die because of this
rule and here in the United States, or legislation like
Trump's pushed to roll back birth control coverage and the
push for twenty week abortion bands keep Black women from
being in control of our own bodies. These attacks on
our reproductive health aren't just political, their attacks on our agency.
At Afropunk Solution sessions in Atlanta, Planned Parenthood director of
(10:26):
public Engagement Ellensia Johnson called this out. I tell people
all the time that this fight around agency, especially for
black women. For me and I can say this is
I'm Black. They don't want us having babies anymore because
we're not free labor, right Like, I'm not giving birth
to free labor anymore. So what's the point of you
having me having agency over my body to give birth
to a child that I want to live in a
(10:48):
functioning society where they're safe and they don't die when
they're young. Right. I think with the twenty week abortion band,
it is so stigmatizing and criminalizing for women, particularly women
of color, are particularly low income women. Because I want
to contextualize it a little bit, majority of women who
seek an abortion after twenty weeks it is because of
(11:10):
the life of the mother or the child or both
is in danger or and then what is happening back
to Dorian's question of what's happening in the States while
they have these waiting periods for folks if they go
and they say they want to have an abortion, so
you might have a four d eight hour ten seven
two hour waiting period. Well, if you are a low
income woman, or if you have multiple kids and you
(11:30):
don't have childcare, you don't have a job where you
can take off multiple days, or you don't have a
car or the money or the resources to drive a
hundred miles. You can't go somewhere and then go home
and then take more days off. But guess what happens.
Then you're continuing to delay a pregnancy. So while you
have decided, you made this decision about your body, maybe
(11:51):
like ten weeks in because of all these laws, of
these restrictive laws, your past twenty weeks right, And so
they've created and they being the opposition, this very white
leg conservative movement, who I don't think our Christians. My
daddy is a pastor and supports women's agency. They co
opted Jesus. They are over here, they have They are
(12:12):
over here telling women that we cannot make the best
decisions for our lives and that for some reason there's
something wrong with us for making a very difficult decision.
When you've got into twenty weeks, that is a very
difficult decision. I have friends that that's that's actually happened too.
And so I think the push back on these attacks,
you have the people in d C, the political folks,
(12:33):
advocate folks who are doing their work. But I need
black women, especially to come forward and tell stories. Gabby saying,
I used to work at Playing Parenthood Together. Her work
involves talking to black women about shame to health, de
stigmatized conversations around abortion, sexuality, and reproductive health. Growing up
(12:54):
in the church, in a very conservative church, we were
allowed to wear makeup. We were told we're in makeup.
Wasn't what she it right, And so I didn't wear makeup,
and Ton was about five years old. At first I
didn't know how, and I still don't know how. But
second it was something that I was taught. I had
big lips. They said, you have big lips. You don't
need to emphasize your big lips anymore. I was born
with hips in a big, old fat ass, and it
(13:15):
just has been here my entire life, and I was
taught that you need to cover it up right. I
didn't wear short skirts, I didn't wear things that hung
to my hips because I was taught very early on
that I should be ashamed of my body. So, in
thinking about stigma and shame, it would be great for
you all just to tell us a short story about
(13:36):
shame and how it showed up in your life and
how you overcome it um and and advice that you
give other young people, young women in particular, about overcoming
the stigmas that hold us down. Here was Jessica Bird
at Atlanta Afro Punk Solution Sessions. My aunt told me
at a very young age that I was frisky, right,
and it messed me up for a very long time
(13:57):
because I felt so much shame and so that she
was like, because I was out there in my glory, honey,
I used to love to, you know, walk in my
dresses and I would be all in front of everybody.
I just love to be a bit of an exhibitionist.
And she's like, but you're frisky, and so I would.
I held onto that and it made me really really
like just shrink inside of myself, like I cannot stand
(14:18):
and walk in my fullness. And I carried that with
me through my adolescence where I started having sex at
a very young age. Right again, I grew up in
this small rural town and that's not a lot to do,
but we figured out you could do it very easily,
you know, in the South. So I did, you know,
and my other friends were doing it, and we were
having lots of sex, but nobody was helping to educate
(14:39):
us on like what that meant, and so we felt
like we had to keep this really silent. And then
when someone ended up pregnant, then they were shamed for it.
But I'm like, what you all were not even providing
a space for us to talk about what our bodies
are doing and like all these things that's running through us.
I want to have sex, I think anyway, I don't know, right,
But those conversations um but became very shaming because nobody
(15:00):
to have the conversation about six. It's not just our
sexualities or lips or booties that make us feel shame.
Sometimes it's what's happening inside our bodies too. So how
many people know what fibroids are. That's Tanka Gray val
Brine and she's talking about her experiences with benign gross
on her uterus called fibroids. She had twenty seven fibroids
(15:20):
removed from her uterus. One in every five women has fibroids.
Million women between the ages of fifteen and fifty will
have them. They're incredibly common in black bodies, yet they're
not really talked about. Janika says she's never worn a
white dress in her life because she constantly worries about
the hemorrhaging that her condition causes. She started the White
Dress Project so women with fribroids wouldn't have to suffer
(15:41):
in silence. But for Chanika, her story really begins with
her mom. She was born um in Saint Elizabeth, Jamaica
to a teacher named Aina and mechanic name Alvin and
growing up on the land in Jamaica. Growing up on
the farm, we had many, many health discussions in our family. UM.
I can give you remedies and concoctions of mint tea
(16:05):
and ginger tea and seracy tea and molasses and yes, yes,
anything that you need, UM to be cured from headaches too,
ankle sprains. I seriously have it me my grandmother, UM,
because that's the type of family we were raised in.
Pharmaceuticals weren't always available to us, so it was important
(16:26):
to figure out how to live off the land and
to basically cure ourselves naturally. UM. So when my mother
started to share her thoughts on fibroids and her journey
with fibroids with me, UM, it was very devastating to me.
At age, my mom lost her first set of twins
due to fibroids. And for those of you who might
not understand that, because fibroids grow in the same area
(16:50):
UM that a baby grows, basically it's fibroids or the baby,
and in my mom's situation, the fibroids suffocated the baby
be so she lost her first set of twins, and
then she got pregnant with me, and I was an
only child and I made it and I'm still an
only child. So she got excited and got pregnant again
and lost a set of twins after me. And through that,
(17:13):
I learned that there is so much power in the
patient story. You don't have to be experiencing fibroids, but
you can have Another ailment that we're not talking about
is women. I don't know about the women in the audience,
but I know that I was taught to be classy, sophisticated.
You don't talk about issues below the belt. You're a woman.
(17:33):
You have your period, you bleed, get over it. But
I realized that there is no way that you can
be hemorrhaging the way that fibroids causes you to hemorrhage.
That you can have the pelvic pressure and pain that
you do and you not speak up for yourself. If
you are silent about your pain, they'll kill you and
say you've enjoyed it through a Neil Hurston once wrote,
(17:55):
as black women, we've been talked to be silent about
our pain, a phenomena nots on one Solution Sessions panelist.
You know, you grow up in a home as a female,
and you are taught to be demure and respectful and subservient.
You know, I grew up in a home where I
got my period and the only conversation that happened was
(18:17):
don't let a boy touch you. That doesn't really take
you very far. And it starts at home, right, It
starts with you being able to have a good sense
of who you are as a woman and be able
to appreciate and and really uplift yourself and and your body.
And so if we don't start having these types of
conversations to normalize what it is that our body is
(18:42):
naturally doing, this is part of like the stigma that's
associated with why you're told not to wear white, why
you're told, um, you know, you don't want anyone to
see you. What why you're told not to talk about
having your period. For the men in the room, we
have periods. Y'all know that it's a thing. It's a
bodily function, it's a human function, and so it's okay
(19:05):
to talk about it. Black women are supposed to be strong.
Just look at the black women we see on TV.
Society tells us that we're expected to shoulder not just
our burdens, but the burdens of everyone else as well.
As a black woman. I just have two things I
want to say about last night's selection. You're welcome. While
(19:28):
all of America was on the edge of their seats
waiting to see if an accused pedophile would get into
the United States Senate, of black women in Alabama voted
for the other guy, because, as my dad says, black
women laugh and joke, but we don't play. The women
who saved us last night were just regular black women.
(19:48):
They were black women in Alabama. Do you know what
they have to go through every day? Those women woke
up yesterday and we're like, I gotta deal with systemic racism,
that gender pay gap, the school to prison pipeline humidity,
and now y'all want me to save a merriment. There
will be more solution sessions after this quick break. Doctors
(20:11):
don't even take our pain as seriously as they do
our white counterparts. But black women do feel pain, and
masking up as what clinical psychologist Jazz Keys calls black superwomen,
is killing us. You know her because you've seen her
so many times. She's bold, fierce and unflinching, seemingly invincible
(20:31):
black lady. But you got me twisted, O G. I'm
always going to eat. In media, you can hear the
idea that the black woman being the superwoman of the
caricature isn't only used to shape fictional personalities in pop culture,
it's also a standard to which society holds all African
American women. And it is that mindset that has passed
(20:52):
down to African American girls and women from generation to generation.
But there's a problem. I don't think it's very sustainable
at all. And if it is sustainable, if a person
survives living this way, we would need to take a
really good look at their health. A new study finds
African American patients are often treated differently when it comes
(21:12):
to medicine and care. The survey of more than five
hundred people, four hundred of the medical students found implicit
bias exists that may help explain why black people are
sometimes undertreated for pain. Among its findings, medical students believe
that African Americans felt less pain than white patients and
even thought their skin was thicker. Dorothy Roberts is a
(21:35):
medical problem or a sociological problem. It's both. I think
what's really important and fascinating about the study is that
it for the first time links what we've long known
is under treatment of pain for black patients with doctors,
or at least medical students, false beliefs about biological differences
(21:55):
based on race. I think you see it everywhere. I
think you see it when you look at the kinds
of black women that become pop culture figures. Think about
women who seem very strong and together, who don't seem
to show cracks. You know, there's this writer Tiffany Doofu
who talks about the first time that her daughter saw
her cry and that she said, Mom, I didn't think
(22:16):
that you felt things like that. I didn't think that
you cried, and how shocking that was for her that
she had created an environment where her daughter, who was
also a young black woman, thought that her own mother
didn't experience normal emotions because that's just the environment that
she established in her household. I think we do carry
a lot of burdens, and we do so silently, because
(22:37):
you know, when you're a black woman, there is so
much of a burden to have it all together, be
polished and perfect, lest somebody think that you're not a
good representative of your of your race and gender. We
deal with so much misogyn or, and I think that's
a function of of why we feel the need to
pretend to be so strong all the time. Right. Not
only is it it's something that it's been stigmatized in
(22:58):
Black women, it's something that has been forced upon to
us by the health care system. So I remember there
was this time when I had a panic attack one
night when I was in college, and I couldn't breathe.
So I was just like, you know, I don't know
if this is a this is connected to the panic
attack or not, but I really feel like I can't
(23:19):
breathe right now, you know. It was really really freaking out,
and so I had to be rushed to the e R.
And I got to the e R. And after waiting
in the e R, we know how slowly they move
and how inefficient it can be. After waiting in the
er for hours and having an I V in my
arm and not being able to be in the room,
I finally got to the doctor and in our three
minute five minute conversation, the conclusion that he came to
(23:42):
was that I had anxiety and that was without doing
any sort of testing, without putting out any other sort
of suggestions for what could be wrong with me before
the conclusion was that I had anxiety because of things
that were going on in my life. You know that
that just really manifested in physical property. And after going
(24:02):
to other doctors, of course, where I landed was going
to a black woman doctor who diagnosed me with an
actual condition, which was like inflammation of my esophagus. So
it wasn't anxiety at all. It wasn't anxiety at all.
I mean, part of me feels it sucks that you
did not get the proper diagnosis. Part of me surprised
you got a diagnosis at all. I've seen that situation
(24:23):
play out where it's it's in your head, go home,
stop googling things, You're fine. And the thing about it
is it's a form of gas lighting. And for me,
I was like, well, maybe this is anxiety because there
is ship going on in my life that could possibly
manifest in something like a panic attack. It was a
conflation of the two. Even though I actually did have
a panic attack, and maybe those sort of things can
(24:44):
manifest in something like a panic attack, that doesn't mean
that I wasn't actually going through a different condition. Yeah,
you know, we see these stories time and time again,
particularly for folks who are marginalized, who just have the
medical care industry take our pain and our issues, see bviously,
because they really don't. And that just goes to show
the importance of what folks like Allencia and Michaela say
(25:04):
that we need to learn how to advocate for each
other and ourselves because a lot of times the medical
community is not here for us, and we need to
take our health into our own hands. At Atlanta Afro
Punk Solution Sessions, Michaela Angela Davis spoke to this need
for Black women to suffer in silence. Black women will
suffer and hold on to pain and and sug through
(25:26):
when we're bleeding for a month. If you all can
relate to that, just click your fingers say amen. But
that I mean, I think that's something that um, we've
also been taught that we we are supposed to hold
burden and that we are supposed to contain pain, and
that we and this is a trope that has been
taught to everyone that black women can just take it.
(25:48):
And so the fact that you're coming into e Er
with five boys because you've been bleeding for Like, that's
that's a problem. So what do we do? How do
we get to a place where we can talk about
our bodies without that isolating stigma and shame. Michaelis says
that one way is to find strength and the power
of sisterhood and centering black women. Well, this is part
of it, right, like making sure that we stay in
(26:10):
sisterhood no matter where we are, whether it's at a festival,
whether it's at our you know, kitchen tables. But for me,
me personally, this whole resistance movement, for me has become
I'm resisting doing white folks work right and really focusing
in on us right and vote and hyper focusing on
(26:33):
Black women and how to um not just center them,
but to amplify them. And we have these tools in
our hands that lets us see each other in numbers,
in in in quality, quantity. So I'm really asking all
of you all who are here, use your use your platform,
(26:54):
use your phone to say that you were here, say
that you're here with your sister, say that that you
support your sister. And I don't know, maybe I'm going crazy,
me listen, like this is really the only way that
I can survive this moment is with inside of sisterhood.
That to me is the antidote to patriarchy, right That
to me is the antidote to white supremacy, and it's
(27:15):
the thing that we've been cultured to avoid. And we
can use that power to make sure that we're standing
up for each other's health and well being because we're
all we got. We don't have to suffer in silence,
and you're not alone. I believe the sisterhood is a superpower.
So part of maybe what we can do today is
commit to supporting each other into making that appointment. Because
(27:39):
also we are also I think conditioned to believe that
we have to do everything by ourselves. And we can
do things for ourselves, but not by ourselves. So it's
somebody is anybody here with a girlfriend like your homie.
So you turn to your girlfriend right now and make
a commitment to supporting her into going to get her
(27:59):
jack up and you all can go together. We need
to squat up right for everything in particulous because I
just learned a bunch of stuff. Olyncia says, we can't
expect black women to be strong all the damn time.
We feel pain, we get tired, we need time to heal.
(28:19):
Let's change the narrative that says otherwise. Well, we have
to also be honest that like, it's time for everybody
to stand with black women and stop coming to us
to fix everything. Somebody let us heal and and so
we you'll see some some posters around here that stand
with black women. Uh, these shirts and posters that we
have out here, it was a black woman who designed
(28:41):
those four plane parenthood and we were like, we need
something that's actually black women censored. And guess what, We're
gonna get a black woman to do it, because it's
time for folks to stand with us, but also let
us lead. But also if I'm tired, let me be tired,
let me be come stand forwards while we're taking it. Yeah,
(29:02):
nobody should get to define the boundaries and borders of
our own bodies but us. When I think back to
my time in that clinic, I felt so alone, but
I wasn't. I was there with the legacy of all
the black women who came before me and helped make
space for me to make choices about my own body.
Had I decided to have a child, These same women
bought for my ability to parent that child safely. We
(29:23):
have to support each other and affirm our rights to
govern our own bodies and our right to make safe,
healthy and informed choices about our experiences. Because if we
don't fight for each other and ourselves, no one else will.
What's the solution? Bridget Center black and queer people and
conversations about reproductive justice. What's the solution, Bridget, Don't be
(29:45):
afraid to speak up about how you feel. What's the solution, Bridget?
Take care of each other. What's the solution? Bridget Buck
stigma and fuck shame? Yeah. M afrop Punk Solution Sessions
(30:12):
is a co production between Afro Punk and How Stuff Works.
Your hosts are Bridget Todd and Eve's Jeff Cope. Executive
co producers are Julie Douglas, Jocelyn Cooper, and Kuan latif Hill.
Dylan Fagan is supervising producer and Kathleen Quillian is audio engineer.
Many many thanks to Casey Pegram and Annie Reese for
their production and editorial oversight, and many thanks to our
(30:35):
on the ground Atlanta crew, Ben Bowland, Corey Oliver, and
Noel Brown. The Underside of Power is performed by Algiers
Connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at afro
Punk
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