August 31, 2018 • 43 mins
In our "Identity" episode, art director and artist Momo Pixel kept it real about being herself, wholly and unapologetically. In this full conversation, Yves and Momo talk being Black in white spaces, style & aesthetic, and how much it means to find your freedom.
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
You're listening to afro Punk Solution Sessions. I'm your host
Brigittad and I'm your co host Eve Jeff cookee. Acro
Punk is a safe place, a blank space to freak
out in, to construct a new reality, to live our
lives as we see fit while making sense of the
world around us. Here at afro Punk, we have the
conversations that matter to us, conversations that lead to solutions. Hey, y'all,
(00:31):
Eve's here. We're back again with another interview from this
awesome season. This time it's Momo Pixel. You might remember
Momo from the Identity EPP where she basically talks about
how she does what the hell she wants to and
without apologizing for it. She's an art director and artist,
a musician, and a professional creative just all around. So
(00:53):
we're gonna hear a lot more of what Momo has
to say in this episode. So can you talk, like
just a little bit about which you do as a
professional creative, like all the different lanes that you work
in and just what it is you do exactly. Uh yeah,
So currently I work in advertising. Um, I'm an arts
director or creative copyright or whatever. Um, but main title
(01:17):
is our director. But I have experienced being a copywriter,
so I just I come up with how the advertisements
should look their overall aesthetic. Um I hire like the
photographers and the directors. We will choose like the production team. Um.
I started in salusand and fifteen and I worked at
(01:38):
Leo Burnett in Chicago and the Tindal was my clients.
So make commercials, be come up with ideas for them.
Um And now I work on a lot of different things.
Um like secret boast, bice, nicky blah blah blah. Uh
we'll not really nice you, but um yeah, so that's
what I do. And then like sometimes you write the script,
(01:59):
you write the stuff. Uh so yeah, I'm just creative,
a professional creative because I get paid to come up
with ideas and implement them. And then I have like
my personal stuff that I do. That's go in the
same level. Oh cool, if you want to get into
those personal things now too, you're welcome to. I know
you you're you're also involved in music. Yeah, so when
the personal stuff is, um, I do music. Um So,
(02:23):
I guess you could call me like an electronic kind
of finger. I'm like, I'm like I neo soul and
jazz my video games. I would say that is my style.
It is yeah, um so yeah, I think, Um, I
wrapped sometimes reluctantly, but I'm good at it. I just
I don't know. I'm still tasted out my staying with that.
(02:45):
Oh yeah, be music rap um. And then I have this.
I'm a pixel artist. I'm a stylist. I guess I
make like pixel with thestories. Um, I do pixel designs.
I own my own company, Momolan Studios. Uh. And then
I have an EVET called Mobile and that we do.
UM and it's multi faceted interactive art exhibition. UM. So
(03:09):
there's a r v R an art show component music
of course. UM. This year it's being held at an
arcade space in Portland's Um. It might be in Chicago
next year. It kind of travels, but it started in Atlanta.
Uh And sales of sixteen and yeah. So what are
some favorite things about yourself? What are some favorite things
(03:29):
about myself? I would say my stubbornness, Like even though
I'm stubborned, I think that it is the reason why
I keep going and I don't settle, you know what
I mean? Because of the stubbornness. Like if there's something
that I want, I will persistently keep trying to do it,
obtain it, you know, learn that skill. If there's something
(03:53):
I don't like, see what I mean, if somebody's trying
to get over on me, like I think my stubbornness
comes into play there. I mean you could call it
the termination or whatever, but I always see the stubbornness. Uh. Um,
So I would say that's one. Uh. I love my creativity,
like my my attention and my excitement for life. So
(04:13):
I feel like all of that tied into one. I
guess you can call excitement creativity. Uh. So I really
love how excited I get about the smallest things and
how much I pay attention to the details, and how
involved in color I am. And I don't know just
how excited I get about anime and like games like
other things that people are doing. Like, I think my
(04:34):
creativity comes from my excitement and so I don't think
I have a run out of it because I'm always
excited about things. Uh And my ability to not give
a funk. I just don't care about what other people think,
so I just be out here. M h. What do
you think that stubbornness comes from? Uh? My stubbornness comes
(04:56):
from my childhood. I had a really bad childhood, and
you know, the people who are supposed to love me
protect me did not, And so I had to learn
at a very young age how to trust myself. And
so there's there's a lot of great things that come
with that. But the negative that comes with that is
that it's hard for me to listen to other people. So,
(05:18):
you know, my stubbornness comes from having to listen to
myself and having to tell myself, no, this person is wrong,
that's not right. What do you think moment? You know
what I mean? Like, so having to be stubborn to
not I had sup force myself not to listen to
those people growing up, you know what I mean, it
was basically everybody around me. So you know, actually like
two plus years of having to do that, you know,
now I'm in this this other space of my life
(05:41):
and you know, everybody is not necessary. People aren't necessarily
trying to hinder. You know, a lot of people are
trying to help or say stuff, but you know, I
still listen to myself first. So I think that is
where the stubbornness comes from. And it's mostly positive, but
there are some negative attributes. So what's something what's something
(06:01):
that you think people get wrong about you are misunderstand
I don't know. I don't really think that. I think
that people get my brand. I think I'm very good
at branding and stuff. I think that people things that people.
I think this is just the overall thing let people
do it to me, is that people want more things
for free. So like I made a video game and
(06:21):
I gave it to the world and it was free.
But ever since then, people want more stuff, like hey,
can you check out my whatever it is? And they'll
message you like hours and they just fledge your inbox
and it's like, you know, you want to be nice,
Just like, bro, you're taking out my time. You're not
paying me, you know what I mean, you already got
the games for free, like you know. And so my
(06:42):
thing is I think that the people that people the
thing that people do is that people are selfish. They
don't see it at selfishness. For people are self as
a ship. And so when it comes to me, people
keep trying to to put their life goals and the
things that they're trying to achieve but through me, and
I'm like, I'm not that person. Yeah, I mean, like
(07:03):
I give you my art, I definitely hope you appreciate it.
If you don't, cool, but my art is usually for
the greater good, so you should appreciate it, you know
what I mean. And then I go back into the
hibernation I create some more, you know. I mean, I'm
not out here like trying to give like I don't know,
I just yeah, people are yourself. People just be in
your inbox asking for all this stuff, you know, I mean,
(07:24):
you can only answer so many, so many of them emails. Uh,
you seem like you still have a lot of patience
because you're at least reading them still. I mean, yeah,
I read them and I'll put them in the block
block sections, all right. But it's it's weird because you
would expect, you know, after after seeing you put out
this this art into the world that is free, that
(07:46):
also has a message. You know, not only is it
beautifully beautifully created, it also has something to say. You
would think people would the first thing people would say
it would be, oh like, look how much Look how
talented Momo is, Like look at look at all this
auble stuff that she's putting out into the world. Like
obviously this is worth something, but instead they say, oh,
look look at what she can do for me, or
(08:08):
you know, look at what she has to offer me,
not look at So I don't know, what do you
think that says about how people? It kind of seems
like people just undervalue artists, I guess, and they're not
they don't really appreciate them. I think people just undervalue
people in general, you know what I mean. I think
it transfers to artists and stuff, but I think people
are too selfish. People stuff for us, like you know,
(08:31):
and I think a lot of people are dishonest. They're
always trying to put a layer over it. They're always
trying to sell you a cake, you know what I mean,
when it's really just like I don't know, it's just dinner,
but they want to add the dessert to it, you
know what I mean. It's like, hey, look we got
we got this. But really it's like the regular assal
with broccoli and ship. It's like, bro just tell me
(08:52):
you want me to eat the broccoli and ship like
I got you, like if you tell me the truth, really,
you know what I mean, But like, don't try to
sell it to me. And I feel like people are
always trying to put their personal goals in there. They
are are all perative motives through others up and I
ain't got sign I'll be the one. I'd be like, oh,
so you want me, Like they'll send me the long
emails and I'll be like, so, what you're actually saying
(09:13):
is you want me to create this for you that
the tail is right beside my note. Um. Yeah, I
think that just makes me think about like how you know,
you have you have your own style, like you do
your own thing, Like you're very unique, you know, to
(09:35):
put it like simply, But I think it just makes
me think about like how how it feels when you
move out in the world and like when you're in
the public eye, because I feel like, just as a
black woman in general, like there's a fine line between
appreciation or adoration and then objectification. So it can kind of,
you know, get to a point where you're like, Okay,
(09:58):
I'm doing my thing, but the is because my work
is amazing, but there's an ad edit later on top
of that we had to think, oh, it's also because
I'm black, And it's kind of like people are saying like, oh, look,
she's black and she can do this thing like she's
black and amazing, but you know what it should just
be about. It's the work. The work that I do
is amazing. It's not because I'm black. It has nothing
(10:19):
to do with my blackness. Even though I would say
yes or no, like I feel both of it. I
feel that yes, my work is dope, just thoroughly dope.
But I also feel like it is dope in a
sense because of my blackness, Like I never would have
made her or not if I wasn't black, you know
what I mean. And I never want to experienced it
(10:39):
if I wasn't black, Like I never like you know
what I mean. My first time it's in Portland is
when all that stuff happened. And so like my art
was created out of that like negativity. It's just as
much as inspiration as positivity. And so I even though
I know that we want to be seen as great
as creators, which we fucking are, it is also because
(11:00):
of our blackness, because you know, all that fucking negativity,
we just turned it into art where the dope we
are like like black people, we are like the best.
I turn a negative as ship into dope as ship. Yeah,
you have to be so it's like it's like both
you know what I mean. Like, I'm just like our
(11:21):
work is just dope, Like my work is dope. It's
like you can see it on its own and he'd
be like, oh, ship, who did that? You know what
I mean? And then you meet me like damn and
black like it's an added in as thing. But my
art also comes from that place. Uh. But yeah, most definitely,
people definitely do objectify and appreciate. Like I can't even
walk outside girl girl Portless. I'll like leave my job
(11:44):
and they'll be a table full of white people. They'll
just start clapping. Oh look, she said, unicorn. I'm like, yeah,
this ain't no zoo. I'm okay. You ain't got to
clap and whistle and ship like if they a compliment
to let me be Wow. You'll hear more of this
conversation with my right after this break. So can you
talk about being in Portland, I know, and travel in
(12:06):
general too, like your experiences living in different places and
maybe how um, how it's affected the way you express
yourself if it has it all? Uh, Well, I think
it's difficult because my I think my situation is different
because of how I address you know what I mean,
in my aesthetic, so I get everything times a hundred.
(12:30):
So like like you know, living in so like living
in Atlanta. I only felt safe in my school because
Scots so creative that everybody was experimenting and becoming themselves,
and so it was just a freeze space to be
whatever the fuck, you know what I mean. There was
no Yeah, you could just be, you know, but then
when you would leave Scotts, you know, and go out
(12:51):
into the regular Atlanta, you know, you'd have all the
black people judging you or whoever else. Wife goes like,
you know, I think that black culture as a whole,
we're just now starting to accept those of us who
are alternatives, even though it's always been there, Like that
should ain't new. Like we've been listening to rock music
and like in K pop, we're the ones to like
influence all that ship. But you know, black I think
(13:13):
Black people as a whole is just now getting to
a place where they're like accept it and acknowledge it
and have places for it. But you know, when I
was first in college, it wasn't like that, not in Atlanta,
like Momo con and all that ship wasn't as big
and like all the stuff that's like huge Now, it
wasn't like that at first. Um, and so like Atlanta
was interesting in that sense I felt I always I
(13:33):
have always felt shutting by black people. That's so forever.
Um and then Chicago, Chicago, I didn't really feel anything.
I think at times I was annoyed at people staring
at me and stuff. But Chicago was super segregated, so
it was like, if I wanted to be around my people,
I had to go to the South Side, you know
(13:54):
what I mean. But I lived on the North Side
because it was closer to my job, you know what
I mean, But that's where the white people are. What
I mean, you have had like Asian and like Indian
on the East Side. Like it was just it was
super segregated. So like, Chicago was just an interesting experience
and I wanted to be I think it's such because
I wanted to be more around the black folks. But
(14:15):
I almost got shot downtown in Chicago by some guy
who thought I wasn't a game because I was stilted.
So I just didn't have time. I was like, you
know what, we don't cut this trip. Sure, So I
only lived there for eight months. Uh, and then uh m,
New York, New York. So I like New York because
I stick out, but I lend in at the same time.
(14:37):
Like New York, I'm just another person who has their
own style, you know what I mean. But my style
is still mine, so I still sticks out. Um, New
York is only annoying because of tourists, you know what
I mean. And anytime you say tourists, you mostly meet
white people. So New York is annoying because white people
think that they can take pictures and do whatever the
fluff they want, and that's just a na um. And
(14:59):
then p and is all white, you know what I mean,
Like I think it's it's actually the whitest city in America.
So you know, the sprouts of color that I do get,
we have an understanding. It's cool to see them. But
I could just be standing, Like my job has a
lot of windows. I can just be standing in a
meeting doing work and I will look across and somebody's
trying to take pictures of me from the streets. Yeah,
I mean, like it's just it's it's probably. Yeah, Portland
(15:26):
is the worst as far as me and how I
interact with people, Like I legit have to stop people
from touching me, Like I can't go a day, like
if I go out to try to party, people are
going to touch me, and I have to have this space,
you know what I mean. And it's just like it
sucks because it keeps me from going to things, that
keeps me from interacting with people. I mostly hang out
with myself because people always evade my face, you know
(15:47):
what I mean. Like LGBTQ community, right, how I fucking
love the stores and everything right because it has all
the colors. That's where I went shop. Like when I
was in Chicago, I was always in Boys Town because
that was the only place I can buy a colorful
you too, you know what I mean. So I'm always
in those areas because that's us what the stuff I want.
But like its portless, you know, I would say the
queer community, he always like they have a right to
(16:09):
touch me, right, Like gay guys feel like they own
me in some sense because I'm the sparkly pretty thing
and they're just like, oh yes, girl, and they're suchally
me and I'm like, bro, even though you get you're
still a guy and I still got boundaries, like black up,
you know what I mean? So I don't know, my
stuff is different in various places, and it makes me
interact weird. I would say, I feel more at home
(16:33):
in black faces. Uh. And it gets better, you know
every year as we get more as a culture excepting
of ourselves boys um and uh yeah. And then traveling,
I mean any place I go, I stick out, but
again tourists make it stuck for me. Like I went
to Japan. It was amazing. Everybody was super sweet, like,
(16:56):
loved it. I even made friends. But all the white
people who was there visiting would he trying to take
pictures of me. I would have to lift my shopping
bags and like block the cameras and stuff like it's
always a girl, It's always sucked. So speaking of you know,
being black and white spaces, can you talk about that professionally?
(17:18):
Like in a professional setting, have you ever felt the
pressure to be kind of twice as good or feel
the need to prove yourself because I mean, as most
industries are you know, working within places um that are
very white, Like, how is that experience for you? I
don't think I've ever felt pressure to be twice as good.
(17:40):
I think I just competitive as it doesn't matter if
you're black, white, Asian anything, if you like, if you
want competition, if we go into the same job, I
will demolish you. Like that's just me, you know. So
I would just alwayslways had that mentality, you know what
I mean, even when I was being an intern, Like
I would win an intern contest, Like I just don't
play when it comes to my work, and I had
(18:00):
to represent myself and that doesn't matter who it is. Um.
And then you know, in the work space, UM, I
don't feel pressure to be twice as good. I just
happened to be twice as good just because that's just
that's just what it is. After doing all that work
for so long, you know what I mean, God, it
is super gruesome, you know what I mean. And then
(18:22):
being competitive and like always pushing myself to the math.
There's just a lot of skills that I have, and
so I'm just usually really good or better. And so
the thing that I challenged myself to do is to
be basic. I'm like, if you pay if you're paying
basic Becky the same amount you're paying me when there's
gonna be days, then I'm basic too, because that is
(18:43):
what actually equality is. Equality is not me getting the
same job as her and working three times as hard,
staying up late, blah blah blah. No, equality is if
Becky's as is at home doing work. Most things at
home doing work too, Like we get paid saying I'm
a dude the same Like, no, I'm not. Don't expect
no exceptional ask me, girl, I just happened to be exceptional.
(19:06):
But I'm not about to keep doing that all the time.
Not like they're definitely days where I like equality, Like
I am a fan of not doing the most. I
would do as much as it takes to get the
job done, and then that's it. That's what you're paying
me for. That is so so damn true. I love
(19:28):
that she said that. So I know, I know we
want to say we're on the same plane right now. Okay, um, so,
how so I want to talk about communication a little bit,
because that's a lot of the work you do. It's
like putting ideas out into the world, like whether that's
through your art direction, like through your own personal art.
(19:51):
How how important is communication to you? Like putting out
you know, you're kind of putting yourself on the world stage.
You I don't know how much of your yourself that
you put into maybe some of your professional work, but
you know, putting your own ideas in your mind and
your heart and your soul. Like that's what you know
comes through in our art. Does that ever feel weighty? Um?
(20:13):
Like like a burden, Not a burden, but like a
large weight on your shoulders, like to have to, you know,
put yourself like a lot um? Yeah, I think professionally
more than personally personally. The thing that I like about
myself is that, you know, at my job, and I
(20:33):
think just in people's work lives in general, all day
you're told no, right Like I'll pitch an idea and
they'll be like, we don't like that one. I was like, yeah,
I mean I kind of don't care at this point
because I just got hella ideas. You can tell me
no and I'm cool. But still at my job most
of the time, all day you hear no, you know
what I mean, And then you get the occasional yes,
and once you get think yes, you get to make
the ship and it's great, you know, But when I
(20:56):
do personal work, I just told myself yes, it's like, Mama,
what you think about this? Oh? You like that? Girl?
Let's get it, you know what I mean, And so
I say yes all the time of that. So when
it comes to like communicating that that's easy for me.
Like spe ship is great, I mean, it's not easy
in the sense that I have less, Uh, I have
less tools to be able to do that at the
(21:18):
levels that I want to, Like I don't I don't
have the I'm not so funded all the way yet
so where I can just like buy everything that is
that I need, hire all the people that it is
that I need um to do it the way that
I want. So that's why communication is hard on a
personal level. Get and I mean like even with events
(21:39):
or activations that I create, if I'm doing it by myself,
then that's mostly me putting my heart and soul, my time,
you know what I mean, Like all that into that,
you know what I mean, and then a few people
who actually believe it could help to steel help too,
and it'll come out. But stuff you do professionally, it's
a lot easier to communicate your thoughts than ideas because
(22:01):
you have way more people that you're working with on
that level, and there's already a machine in place to
put it out perfect, you know what I mean. Like
you don't really have to worry about all the bucks
and stuff. And yeah, sometimes you feel pressured because I
think working in a kind of white space, you become
the black voice, and that is uh uh, it's like
(22:25):
a double edged forward. It's like, yeah, I get to
like put my voice out there and like say stuff.
But it's like, uh, I don't represent all black people.
Why you come into me like I represent us all?
You know what I mean that I would say, that's
where some pressure comes from. And then it also feels
pressure because sometimes you feel like you're only there because
they want a black voice. You're not there because they
(22:47):
see your work, you know what I mean. Sometimes you're
there as a check mark. And it's like, regardless of
how dope you are, they're only gonna put your own
projects that have to do with blackness. They'n I'm gonna
put your own projects because you the dopest. Yeah I mean,
and I canna put your own projects because even though
you studied, I don't know, you could like, MMM's some weird.
(23:07):
You can know everything about how backpacks are made. You
could have had your own store, you could have been
a manufacturer of it, but they may not know that,
you know. I mean maybe they do, but they may
not put you on that just because they want you
on the black brief, you know. And sometimes we feel
pressure in that sense, you know, I mean because it's
like breath, I'm I'm black, and you know there is
(23:28):
a and in there, like I am black and a
gamer and a singer and this end of that, you
know what I mean. Like, and I think sometimes companies
just put you in black and so that's all you
have to offer is black. And I think there's pressure
in that because sometimes I think people don't want to
leave those jobs because it is a job. And then
(23:49):
sometimes you don't want to let the community down because
it's like funck, if I don't do it, who is
gonna do it? And if they do do it, you
know they're gonna do it wrong. And then you're gonna
feel pressure that it's your fault in a sense because
you didn't want to be that person so important you
do cool pressure ash, Yeah, like just hear you say
(24:10):
all that, Like there's so many there's so many layers
to it, because you know, just thinking, you know, when
I am assigned to write something black black in the
notes because I am black, Well, I think, well, I'm
glad you didn't you know, Scarlett Johnds in this. You know,
I'm you didn't put a white person on this. That
was the right thing to do. But then on top
of that, the problem is you didn't have any other
(24:31):
black people to go to. So that means that you
ain't speaking to enough black people either or working with
enough enough black people either. UM. So yeah, there's just
so many layers to it. UM. So I want to
talk to you about your processes of growth and transformation,
like over time um, and your work and like losing
(24:51):
people and gaining people along the way, um, because I
feel like that's a large part of our changing identity
over time. And it's inevitable to lose people into because
you're changing and you know there are people there who
who can't handle your change, and you know, you find
out things about people through that. So how has that
process been through you? I mean for you? UM, I
(25:16):
would say lonely and easy a little bit. So again,
my childhood kind of prepared me that I appreciate God
and all the hardships I'll be getting because in the
long run, I always see it as a positive. So,
you know, my family is sucking and being asholes and ship.
It made me cutting off people, friends, strangers easy because
(25:37):
the hardest thing I ever had to do was block
my mom, you know what I mean, or run away
from home or you know what I mean, like not
talk to like my sister and yeah or whoever the
like the hardest thing for me ever was telling myself
that I deserve more and that more is more than
my family, you know what I mean? And so ever
(26:00):
since then I'll drop a motherfucker in two seconds. Like
the moment somebody shows me who they are, I believe it.
I am that I'm one of those people. Like if
you show me that you don't care about me as
a humman, if you don't care about my work, if
you're working on a project and you don't care, if
you do any of that stuff, I will drop you.
(26:22):
Because nobody is more in prayerant than myself to myself. Um,
and so that's easy for me. Like you can ask people.
I drop people left to right. I have no issues
with it. My black my block game is strong. I'll
block you from all faceted and you know they're the
ones that regret it because we all like I'm just
going to continue to be great, Like, I don't hurt people.
I'm not the person hindering people, you know what I mean.
(26:44):
I'm just creating good work and try to be out
here to be happy and live. But you know, people
are selfish and people always want to impede on that.
And I don't know why people make it so hard,
but people do, and so I just make it easy
for them. I'm like, well, I just let you. I'm
just letting you know, not the one. Uh, go ahead
and enjoy this block. I hope you have a great
ass life. I just don't want to see it and
(27:06):
I don't want you to see me, but you will
because I'm great and that that's cool and uh yes
black claps can't say by um yeah, so that's not
hard for me. I think it's just lonely. I think
what people don't talk about is how lonely it is
trying to accomplish your goals. If you are actually accomplishing
your goals, you are by yourself. You're by yourself because
(27:29):
nobody will understand or appreciate the vision as much as you.
You have to put in the worst nobody else can
put in the work you make it help along the way.
But ultimately people are trying to come to the fire
that you've already started, you know what I mean. Nobody
is actually building it with you. You already started the fire,
and people are coming around to be warm as well.
(27:50):
So you gotta do the work. And it's lonely. You're
gonna have a hard time finding people, like especially if
you're moving around like I do. It's hard finding people
when you move to a new city who are on
the same page. You know, I was super blessed to
go to scott I keep talking about it because I
fucking love that place, because I feel like that was
such a blessing to just be in a space where
everybody was trying to be great and everybody was dope,
(28:12):
and we would all put our all we would be
up to the stay of and still happiest because we're creating,
you know what I mean. You do not find that
in the regular world. You do not find people who
will just stay up to create greatness. You don't find
people or that um determined to their dreams, who will
stay up and look shut up and like do trial
and error, who will put all the money in something like.
(28:35):
We just don't find those people who will genuinely help
you and help themselves, like you don't find it, you
know what I mean? For the fruit friends that I
have or I like that we're all at different cities.
We all went this gud and now we're dispersed all
over the world, and so I have to like call people.
There's people I only talk to you once a year.
There's some people always talk to like once every two months.
But those phone calls are so important because I'm talking
(28:56):
to somebody else who's like minded, and we help each
other going because this ship is lonely, bro, and it's
like you're just like, yo, I see you in New
York doing your thing. I know this ship sucks. If
you need anything, I got you like, what project you like?
What project you're working on? Oh, I know somebody who
can help you do that. You call that person you
helped them out, Get what I mean, and it's like, okay, man,
we're gonna breathe, We'll take a second. We got this,
(29:20):
and then you go back to work. And if you
both put out dope ship, you congratulate you ch osen,
but you're still far away, so you're still lonely. Um. Yeah,
So that's what I would saying for me, it's not
hard to drop people Like there's somebody right now that
I'm about to drop, you know what I mean, Like,
it's not hard, and I'm sire is it's not hard
for me to drop the minute that I recognize that
(29:41):
you're not that you're not in this for that if
I if I, if I realize that you're trying to
use me for something else, I don't have time. Life
is short. Life is too short to be disrespected, you
know what I mean. And I'm just not about that life.
I only want positive energy and greater as ship and
if you're needed of those things, I have no issu.
She's getting rid of like none. We'll be back after
(30:02):
a quick break. So, uh, this podcast is you know,
we talk a lot about solutions. It's called After a
Punk Solution Sessions, so to various things like we've been
talking about reprojective justice. Um, we've been talking about prison
abolition along those lines, and I think a lot of
the time people don't realize on another thing we've been
talking about is like how everybody can contribute in any way.
(30:24):
It doesn't have to be some major grand act or anything,
you know. So I think A lot of the time
people don't realize that like us as black people, just
expressing our whole real selves like is a solution. It's
an act of resistance. And we don't have to be respectable,
We don't have to be just seeing and not her.
We can we defy expectations about our passions, you know,
(30:45):
our appearances and our capabilities. But like, at the same time,
it's only this way, like we only it's an act
of resistance because we've been subjected to all these sorts
of oppression. Um, So how do you navigate that space
of like your blness being part of the reason, um,
that you're getting attention or you know, what do you
(31:06):
think about you know, just expressing yourself being an active resistance. Um,
I'm with it. I mean me, my color, my last
everything was in the in defiance of my childhood. Uh
and so like me going into and like and like
(31:28):
to be honest with me and my blackness. That was
something I had to learn about after college. I didn't
even really have to deal with it until after I graduated.
Like that's crazy, but like my life, I was dealing
with so much ship yeah, with my family and my
childhood that I didn't. I wasn't in a space that
I'm black. I was in a space that, oh, I
(31:50):
need to make it till the next day. Oh I
need to figure out how I'm gonna be able to
keep this homework. How am I going to make these
grades when I like, when I don't have this? How
am I going to do this for my dad? Out
of doing this to me? Like, how am I going
to do this when like, you know, at me, Like, so, my, my,
my experience with that stuff happened way later, you know
what I mean. And it was like literally after I
left God and stuff with God was so international, we
(32:12):
still didn't really have to deal with it. Like we
was all separated by the stuff that we did, not
how we looked. And so like when I you know,
when I went to Chicago, that was when I was like, oh,
you're black, You're not a fun And I was like,
you know, and that was my first time having to
really come into it and really learn how to deal
(32:33):
with it, you know what I mean. It's like a
crash course, like like you know, some of us don't
get told when we're kids this you're black, and this
is how it affects you, you know, what I mean,
Like you just get thrown into the world and you
have to learn that. So you know, if if people
look at the course of my work, it gets exceptionally
more black the older I get because I had a
(32:56):
really like I realized that later when I didn't realize
that I knew I was black. But you know what
I mean, like I had to deal with it and
and how that relates to the world later. What are
we talking about? How do we navigate this space? You
know how sometimes you forget but yeah, so like me
navigating the space now, I mean, I'm just in it,
(33:16):
you know what I mean, Like I didn't make you
do what to do. Like I'm a black girl and
this is how I address Uh, It's like if you
don't like it, I don't really care. And sometimes I
think sometimes it's hard because you it's hard for me
sometimes to navigate it because I don't know if somebody's
acting because I'm multiple things, So I don't know if
somebody's treating me bad because I'm bad, you know what
I mean, or chubby or whatever the fun you want
(33:37):
to call it. I don't know somebody's treating me bad
because I'm a woman. I don't know if somebody's treating
me back because I'm black, and I don't know if
somebody's treating me back because of the way that I dressed. Yeah,
I mean, So it's like there's all these different filterers
and ideas and sucking thought processes I have to go
through to see why somebody is treating me or why
they're interacting with me the way that they're interacting with
(33:58):
you and mean, um, And so when it's white people,
most of the time, most of the time they interacted
with you because you're black a certain way, you know
what I mean. If they interacted you with a certain way,
you know, it's because you acting like this because the
color of my skins and whatever, you know what I mean.
But sometimes I'm like, for acting like this because of
(34:19):
the way that I dressed, you know what I mean. Like,
even if I wasn't black, people would still be going
crazy and acting all weird towards me, you know what
I mean. So it's it's it's an additional thing that
I'm black too, and I'm like, uh, you know what
I mean. But I can tell when it's about my outfit,
you know, And then I can tell when it's about
the way and like my size, I can tell on
somebody's I can worried about that, you know what I mean?
And then you add on the block and the stuff.
You just be thinking about ship all the time. So
(34:41):
like the way that I navigate it is just by
not giving a fun. It's like people, the people didn't
like me for just being born. They didn't like the
way that I was. I'm like, if people can't like
me off default, then of course there's some people people
who don't like me. Wants to come into myself and
it's just like this ship don't matter. It's not a
I give a talk about myself. As long as I'm
(35:01):
doing dope stuff, I don't really care. Don't like me, cool,
you're bad, you missed out? I don't care. That is
how I never do. I don't care, like you know
what I mean, Like I'm black great, Like I'm a
creative great. Like if you don't like that, okay, just
don't try to stop me, because yeah, I'll hand you've
(35:24):
come back with a vengeance. Yeah, so I know we're
you know we're getting out there in time. But I
have one more question. So I know that whether you
want it to be this way or not, or whether
it's intentional or not. You you know, I think you
(35:44):
are or can be our ore a role model to
a lot of black girls, are like black youth in general,
just like them seeing you do your thing, you know,
them seeing you be successful and be the type of
person you are just be the person than you are,
And I just love that. So I'm wondering what you
would say to younger generations who might be stuck in
(36:07):
its place, because you know, I know I was like
you you talk about growing up and how like black
people are the ones who often shown you for you
being different or being quirky, or being nerdy or whatever
it may be. Um, you know, I know, I remember
having a fight family for telling me I couldn't wear
certain things at church because it was too weird, you
know what I mean, Little things like that. Um, I
(36:29):
went through a lot of that. But you know, who
might be stuck in that place of like trying to
appease other people or to conform to societal expectations. Like
who might be afraid to express themselves not because of
their own personal fear, but because of these ideas that
are forced upon them by the people who people who
are closest to them and far away from them. So like,
(36:49):
how what would you say to them to kind of
become this person who you are today? Like to help
them along that path to get there faster because you know,
I wish you didn't have to be that way, but
if you can, if you can give them something to
to help them get closer to that point where you are,
what would you say? That's the great question. Um Uh.
(37:11):
I would say that freedom is the best thing about
this world. And if you yourself, if you yourself can
allow yourself to be free, then how are you upset
that nobody else's I think that first you have to
allow yourself to be free. First you have to not
(37:33):
put yourself in a cage. And I think as long
as you put yourself in a cage, other people will
put you in a cage. And you can't be upset
when other people are putting you on cages when you
haven't really to let yourself out. Um I think that,
you know, I I had all these ideas growing up,
and I just wanted to do all this stuff, but
(37:54):
I felt so stuck and I felt so cage and I,
you know, to that physically couldn't. But it was like
the moment I had freedom and the physical sense because
sometimes you can't. So there are people out there who
cannot because like you're a kid and you're in your
parents house type ship. Then to that, I would say,
(38:17):
hold strong, keep your ideas in your head and the moment,
the moment you get it equaling the freedom run run
like a my birth because that's what I did. But uh,
I was I gonna say, oh oh yeah. So when
I finally got he's a place where I got to
choose what I did that day, you know what I mean?
(38:38):
Like college was my freedom, you know what I mean.
And that was the first time where it was like
I am not around anybody. I could do whatever I want.
I don't have to wake up at a streight time,
I don't have to address this, I don't have to
answer to this person. I could choose to go to class,
I could choose not to go to class. Like the
moment you get some type of freedom, like God, there
is nothing better than waking up and doing what you want.
(39:01):
You chose a job that you got, You chose the
thing that you're you're wearing, you know what I mean.
You choose all these these things, and so it's like,
if you can give yourself the freedom to express yourself,
to fully be yourself, there is nothing better. And once
you give yourself freedom, you automatically demand that other people
do too. Like I don't even have to say ship.
(39:21):
People just come up to me and they know that
I'm in a creative space, you know what I mean.
Like I'm demanding that they recognize God, get what I'm saying.
Like I didn't have to say ship, you know, and
like the more work that I put in out, you
know what I mean, Like people recognize me. I haven't
got to say my name in some places doesn't even
me too, my own horn, that's me. I can literally
work the place and people like, oh, that's not low,
(39:43):
you know what I mean. But that's freedom in a sense, right,
I don't have to open my mouth. I ain't gotta
do ship. You already know who I am. You're probably
gonna give me some food or something. And I'm dressed
the way that I am. No, I can't paid in
a sense to dress up in twochoos. I'm at work
right now and a t a Pokemon hat and a
(40:05):
and a Pokemon shirt and I'm getting paid. And you
couldn't have told me that at six years old, you
know what I mean? Or at seven the ship that
I already like, i'd still be able to be in
and do and get paid, you know what I mean.
So it's just it's just freedom and freedom is I mean,
come on too, you black, so you know how important
(40:26):
freedom is what I'm saying, like flame jumps for fot
but like it, yeah, man, Like I think that my
my honest advice to be the quickest that you can
give yourself freedom, the quickest that you can allow yourself
to express yourself and not care. Because nobody can tell
you how to not care. You just have to figure
(40:48):
out how the funk you do that. And once you
do that, do it. Everybody's way of doing it is different,
you know what I mean. My way of not caring
is dressing up as a cat and still me mugging
people and not talking to them. A hold on, yeah
you know yeah, like you know me, that's that's like
for me, that's like ultimate freedom, or wearing a ball
(41:09):
gown because it's Tuesday. That's how I show that I
don't care, you know what I mean, Because I'm just
doing things that I like to do and I'm not
rating for a special occasion to do it. I'm just
doing it, you know. So whatever way that it is
for you to do that and give yourself that freedom, man,
do it. The quicker you do it, the quicker you
hold the power. And once you own that you've got it,
(41:31):
you do exting. Well, all right, unless there's anything else
you want to add, then we can wrap up now. Um,
the only thing I have that is Momo Land except
some of the six uh in Portland, Oregon, and I
will have a contest to fly people out here. You
will stay in the Jupiter Next hotel. It will be
(41:53):
decorated by my pixelated self, and you will tend Momo
les and you will get all the goodness and you'll
be able to have lunch for me. So folks could
check out momo pixel dot com so that we can
all be black and weird and happy together. And uh,
afro punk is dope. You're dope, and let's all be
(42:14):
dope together. That's it. Stay tuned, y'all because we'll be
back in the coming weeks with more interviews. Afro Punk
Solution Sessions is a co production between afro Punk and
how stuff Works. Your hosts are Bridget Todd and Eve's
(42:34):
Jeff Cope. Executive co producers are Julie Douglas, Jocelyn Cooper,
and Kuan latif Hill. Dylan Fagan is supervising producer and
audio engineer. Many many thanks to Casey, Pegram and Any
Reese for their production and editorial oversight, and many thanks
to our on the ground Atlanta crew, Ben Boland, Corey
Oliver and Noel Brown. The understide of Power is performed
(42:56):
by Algiers. Connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, and insta
gram at acropunk
You're listening to afro Punk Solution Sessions. I'm your host
Brigittad and I'm your co host Eve Jeff cookee. Acro
Punk is a safe place, a blank space to freak
out in, to construct a new reality, to live our
lives as we see fit while making sense of the
world around us. Here at afro Punk, we have the
conversations that matter to us, conversations that lead to solutions. Hey, y'all,
(00:31):
Eve's here. We're back again with another interview from this
awesome season. This time it's Momo Pixel. You might remember
Momo from the Identity EPP where she basically talks about
how she does what the hell she wants to and
without apologizing for it. She's an art director and artist,
a musician, and a professional creative just all around. So
(00:53):
we're gonna hear a lot more of what Momo has
to say in this episode. So can you talk, like
just a little bit about which you do as a
professional creative, like all the different lanes that you work
in and just what it is you do exactly. Uh yeah,
So currently I work in advertising. Um, I'm an arts
director or creative copyright or whatever. Um, but main title
(01:17):
is our director. But I have experienced being a copywriter,
so I just I come up with how the advertisements
should look their overall aesthetic. Um I hire like the
photographers and the directors. We will choose like the production team. Um.
I started in salusand and fifteen and I worked at
(01:38):
Leo Burnett in Chicago and the Tindal was my clients.
So make commercials, be come up with ideas for them.
Um And now I work on a lot of different things.
Um like secret boast, bice, nicky blah blah blah. Uh
we'll not really nice you, but um yeah, so that's
what I do. And then like sometimes you write the script,
(01:59):
you write the stuff. Uh so yeah, I'm just creative,
a professional creative because I get paid to come up
with ideas and implement them. And then I have like
my personal stuff that I do. That's go in the
same level. Oh cool, if you want to get into
those personal things now too, you're welcome to. I know
you you're you're also involved in music. Yeah, so when
the personal stuff is, um, I do music. Um So,
(02:23):
I guess you could call me like an electronic kind
of finger. I'm like, I'm like I neo soul and
jazz my video games. I would say that is my style.
It is yeah, um so yeah, I think, Um, I
wrapped sometimes reluctantly, but I'm good at it. I just
I don't know. I'm still tasted out my staying with that.
(02:45):
Oh yeah, be music rap um. And then I have this.
I'm a pixel artist. I'm a stylist. I guess I
make like pixel with thestories. Um, I do pixel designs.
I own my own company, Momolan Studios. Uh. And then
I have an EVET called Mobile and that we do.
UM and it's multi faceted interactive art exhibition. UM. So
(03:09):
there's a r v R an art show component music
of course. UM. This year it's being held at an
arcade space in Portland's Um. It might be in Chicago
next year. It kind of travels, but it started in Atlanta.
Uh And sales of sixteen and yeah. So what are
some favorite things about yourself? What are some favorite things
(03:29):
about myself? I would say my stubbornness, Like even though
I'm stubborned, I think that it is the reason why
I keep going and I don't settle, you know what
I mean? Because of the stubbornness. Like if there's something
that I want, I will persistently keep trying to do it,
obtain it, you know, learn that skill. If there's something
(03:53):
I don't like, see what I mean, if somebody's trying
to get over on me, like I think my stubbornness
comes into play there. I mean you could call it
the termination or whatever, but I always see the stubbornness. Uh. Um,
So I would say that's one. Uh. I love my creativity,
like my my attention and my excitement for life. So
(04:13):
I feel like all of that tied into one. I
guess you can call excitement creativity. Uh. So I really
love how excited I get about the smallest things and
how much I pay attention to the details, and how
involved in color I am. And I don't know just
how excited I get about anime and like games like
other things that people are doing. Like, I think my
(04:34):
creativity comes from my excitement and so I don't think
I have a run out of it because I'm always
excited about things. Uh And my ability to not give
a funk. I just don't care about what other people think,
so I just be out here. M h. What do
you think that stubbornness comes from? Uh? My stubbornness comes
(04:56):
from my childhood. I had a really bad childhood, and
you know, the people who are supposed to love me
protect me did not, And so I had to learn
at a very young age how to trust myself. And
so there's there's a lot of great things that come
with that. But the negative that comes with that is
that it's hard for me to listen to other people. So,
(05:18):
you know, my stubbornness comes from having to listen to
myself and having to tell myself, no, this person is wrong,
that's not right. What do you think moment? You know
what I mean? Like, so having to be stubborn to
not I had sup force myself not to listen to
those people growing up, you know what I mean, it
was basically everybody around me. So you know, actually like
two plus years of having to do that, you know,
now I'm in this this other space of my life
(05:41):
and you know, everybody is not necessary. People aren't necessarily
trying to hinder. You know, a lot of people are
trying to help or say stuff, but you know, I
still listen to myself first. So I think that is
where the stubbornness comes from. And it's mostly positive, but
there are some negative attributes. So what's something what's something
(06:01):
that you think people get wrong about you are misunderstand
I don't know. I don't really think that. I think
that people get my brand. I think I'm very good
at branding and stuff. I think that people things that people.
I think this is just the overall thing let people
do it to me, is that people want more things
for free. So like I made a video game and
(06:21):
I gave it to the world and it was free.
But ever since then, people want more stuff, like hey,
can you check out my whatever it is? And they'll
message you like hours and they just fledge your inbox
and it's like, you know, you want to be nice,
Just like, bro, you're taking out my time. You're not
paying me, you know what I mean, you already got
the games for free, like you know. And so my
(06:42):
thing is I think that the people that people the
thing that people do is that people are selfish. They
don't see it at selfishness. For people are self as
a ship. And so when it comes to me, people
keep trying to to put their life goals and the
things that they're trying to achieve but through me, and
I'm like, I'm not that person. Yeah, I mean, like
(07:03):
I give you my art, I definitely hope you appreciate it.
If you don't, cool, but my art is usually for
the greater good, so you should appreciate it, you know
what I mean. And then I go back into the
hibernation I create some more, you know. I mean, I'm
not out here like trying to give like I don't know,
I just yeah, people are yourself. People just be in
your inbox asking for all this stuff, you know, I mean,
(07:24):
you can only answer so many, so many of them emails. Uh,
you seem like you still have a lot of patience
because you're at least reading them still. I mean, yeah,
I read them and I'll put them in the block
block sections, all right. But it's it's weird because you
would expect, you know, after after seeing you put out
this this art into the world that is free, that
(07:46):
also has a message. You know, not only is it
beautifully beautifully created, it also has something to say. You
would think people would the first thing people would say
it would be, oh like, look how much Look how
talented Momo is, Like look at look at all this
auble stuff that she's putting out into the world. Like
obviously this is worth something, but instead they say, oh,
look look at what she can do for me, or
(08:08):
you know, look at what she has to offer me,
not look at So I don't know, what do you
think that says about how people? It kind of seems
like people just undervalue artists, I guess, and they're not
they don't really appreciate them. I think people just undervalue
people in general, you know what I mean. I think
it transfers to artists and stuff, but I think people
are too selfish. People stuff for us, like you know,
(08:31):
and I think a lot of people are dishonest. They're
always trying to put a layer over it. They're always
trying to sell you a cake, you know what I mean,
when it's really just like I don't know, it's just dinner,
but they want to add the dessert to it, you
know what I mean. It's like, hey, look we got
we got this. But really it's like the regular assal
with broccoli and ship. It's like, bro just tell me
(08:52):
you want me to eat the broccoli and ship like
I got you, like if you tell me the truth, really,
you know what I mean, But like, don't try to
sell it to me. And I feel like people are
always trying to put their personal goals in there. They
are are all perative motives through others up and I
ain't got sign I'll be the one. I'd be like, oh,
so you want me, Like they'll send me the long
emails and I'll be like, so, what you're actually saying
(09:13):
is you want me to create this for you that
the tail is right beside my note. Um. Yeah, I
think that just makes me think about like how you know,
you have you have your own style, like you do
your own thing, Like you're very unique, you know, to
(09:35):
put it like simply, But I think it just makes
me think about like how how it feels when you
move out in the world and like when you're in
the public eye, because I feel like, just as a
black woman in general, like there's a fine line between
appreciation or adoration and then objectification. So it can kind of,
you know, get to a point where you're like, Okay,
(09:58):
I'm doing my thing, but the is because my work
is amazing, but there's an ad edit later on top
of that we had to think, oh, it's also because
I'm black, And it's kind of like people are saying like, oh, look,
she's black and she can do this thing like she's
black and amazing, but you know what it should just
be about. It's the work. The work that I do
is amazing. It's not because I'm black. It has nothing
(10:19):
to do with my blackness. Even though I would say
yes or no, like I feel both of it. I
feel that yes, my work is dope, just thoroughly dope.
But I also feel like it is dope in a
sense because of my blackness, Like I never would have
made her or not if I wasn't black, you know
what I mean. And I never want to experienced it
(10:39):
if I wasn't black, Like I never like you know
what I mean. My first time it's in Portland is
when all that stuff happened. And so like my art
was created out of that like negativity. It's just as
much as inspiration as positivity. And so I even though
I know that we want to be seen as great
as creators, which we fucking are, it is also because
(11:00):
of our blackness, because you know, all that fucking negativity,
we just turned it into art where the dope we
are like like black people, we are like the best.
I turn a negative as ship into dope as ship. Yeah,
you have to be so it's like it's like both
you know what I mean. Like, I'm just like our
(11:21):
work is just dope, Like my work is dope. It's
like you can see it on its own and he'd
be like, oh, ship, who did that? You know what
I mean? And then you meet me like damn and
black like it's an added in as thing. But my
art also comes from that place. Uh. But yeah, most definitely,
people definitely do objectify and appreciate. Like I can't even
walk outside girl girl Portless. I'll like leave my job
(11:44):
and they'll be a table full of white people. They'll
just start clapping. Oh look, she said, unicorn. I'm like, yeah,
this ain't no zoo. I'm okay. You ain't got to
clap and whistle and ship like if they a compliment
to let me be Wow. You'll hear more of this
conversation with my right after this break. So can you
talk about being in Portland, I know, and travel in
(12:06):
general too, like your experiences living in different places and
maybe how um, how it's affected the way you express
yourself if it has it all? Uh, Well, I think
it's difficult because my I think my situation is different
because of how I address you know what I mean,
in my aesthetic, so I get everything times a hundred.
(12:30):
So like like you know, living in so like living
in Atlanta. I only felt safe in my school because
Scots so creative that everybody was experimenting and becoming themselves,
and so it was just a freeze space to be
whatever the fuck, you know what I mean. There was
no Yeah, you could just be, you know, but then
when you would leave Scotts, you know, and go out
(12:51):
into the regular Atlanta, you know, you'd have all the
black people judging you or whoever else. Wife goes like,
you know, I think that black culture as a whole,
we're just now starting to accept those of us who
are alternatives, even though it's always been there, Like that
should ain't new. Like we've been listening to rock music
and like in K pop, we're the ones to like
influence all that ship. But you know, black I think
(13:13):
Black people as a whole is just now getting to
a place where they're like accept it and acknowledge it
and have places for it. But you know, when I
was first in college, it wasn't like that, not in Atlanta,
like Momo con and all that ship wasn't as big
and like all the stuff that's like huge Now, it
wasn't like that at first. Um, and so like Atlanta
was interesting in that sense I felt I always I
(13:33):
have always felt shutting by black people. That's so forever.
Um and then Chicago, Chicago, I didn't really feel anything.
I think at times I was annoyed at people staring
at me and stuff. But Chicago was super segregated, so
it was like, if I wanted to be around my people,
I had to go to the South Side, you know
(13:54):
what I mean. But I lived on the North Side
because it was closer to my job, you know what
I mean, But that's where the white people are. What
I mean, you have had like Asian and like Indian
on the East Side. Like it was just it was
super segregated. So like, Chicago was just an interesting experience
and I wanted to be I think it's such because
I wanted to be more around the black folks. But
(14:15):
I almost got shot downtown in Chicago by some guy
who thought I wasn't a game because I was stilted.
So I just didn't have time. I was like, you
know what, we don't cut this trip. Sure, So I
only lived there for eight months. Uh, and then uh m,
New York, New York. So I like New York because
I stick out, but I lend in at the same time.
(14:37):
Like New York, I'm just another person who has their
own style, you know what I mean. But my style
is still mine, so I still sticks out. Um, New
York is only annoying because of tourists, you know what
I mean. And anytime you say tourists, you mostly meet
white people. So New York is annoying because white people
think that they can take pictures and do whatever the
fluff they want, and that's just a na um. And
(14:59):
then p and is all white, you know what I mean,
Like I think it's it's actually the whitest city in America.
So you know, the sprouts of color that I do get,
we have an understanding. It's cool to see them. But
I could just be standing, Like my job has a
lot of windows. I can just be standing in a
meeting doing work and I will look across and somebody's
trying to take pictures of me from the streets. Yeah,
I mean, like it's just it's it's probably. Yeah, Portland
(15:26):
is the worst as far as me and how I
interact with people, Like I legit have to stop people
from touching me, Like I can't go a day, like
if I go out to try to party, people are
going to touch me, and I have to have this space,
you know what I mean. And it's just like it
sucks because it keeps me from going to things, that
keeps me from interacting with people. I mostly hang out
with myself because people always evade my face, you know
(15:47):
what I mean. Like LGBTQ community, right, how I fucking
love the stores and everything right because it has all
the colors. That's where I went shop. Like when I
was in Chicago, I was always in Boys Town because
that was the only place I can buy a colorful
you too, you know what I mean. So I'm always
in those areas because that's us what the stuff I want.
But like its portless, you know, I would say the
queer community, he always like they have a right to
(16:09):
touch me, right, Like gay guys feel like they own
me in some sense because I'm the sparkly pretty thing
and they're just like, oh yes, girl, and they're suchally
me and I'm like, bro, even though you get you're
still a guy and I still got boundaries, like black up,
you know what I mean? So I don't know, my
stuff is different in various places, and it makes me
interact weird. I would say, I feel more at home
(16:33):
in black faces. Uh. And it gets better, you know
every year as we get more as a culture excepting
of ourselves boys um and uh yeah. And then traveling,
I mean any place I go, I stick out, but
again tourists make it stuck for me. Like I went
to Japan. It was amazing. Everybody was super sweet, like,
(16:56):
loved it. I even made friends. But all the white
people who was there visiting would he trying to take
pictures of me. I would have to lift my shopping
bags and like block the cameras and stuff like it's
always a girl, It's always sucked. So speaking of you know,
being black and white spaces, can you talk about that professionally?
(17:18):
Like in a professional setting, have you ever felt the
pressure to be kind of twice as good or feel
the need to prove yourself because I mean, as most
industries are you know, working within places um that are
very white, Like, how is that experience for you? I
don't think I've ever felt pressure to be twice as good.
(17:40):
I think I just competitive as it doesn't matter if
you're black, white, Asian anything, if you like, if you
want competition, if we go into the same job, I
will demolish you. Like that's just me, you know. So
I would just alwayslways had that mentality, you know what
I mean, even when I was being an intern, Like
I would win an intern contest, Like I just don't
play when it comes to my work, and I had
(18:00):
to represent myself and that doesn't matter who it is. Um.
And then you know, in the work space, UM, I
don't feel pressure to be twice as good. I just
happened to be twice as good just because that's just
that's just what it is. After doing all that work
for so long, you know what I mean, God, it
is super gruesome, you know what I mean. And then
(18:22):
being competitive and like always pushing myself to the math.
There's just a lot of skills that I have, and
so I'm just usually really good or better. And so
the thing that I challenged myself to do is to
be basic. I'm like, if you pay if you're paying
basic Becky the same amount you're paying me when there's
gonna be days, then I'm basic too, because that is
(18:43):
what actually equality is. Equality is not me getting the
same job as her and working three times as hard,
staying up late, blah blah blah. No, equality is if
Becky's as is at home doing work. Most things at
home doing work too, Like we get paid saying I'm
a dude the same Like, no, I'm not. Don't expect
no exceptional ask me, girl, I just happened to be exceptional.
(19:06):
But I'm not about to keep doing that all the time.
Not like they're definitely days where I like equality, Like
I am a fan of not doing the most. I
would do as much as it takes to get the
job done, and then that's it. That's what you're paying
me for. That is so so damn true. I love
(19:28):
that she said that. So I know, I know we
want to say we're on the same plane right now. Okay, um, so,
how so I want to talk about communication a little bit,
because that's a lot of the work you do. It's
like putting ideas out into the world, like whether that's
through your art direction, like through your own personal art.
(19:51):
How how important is communication to you? Like putting out
you know, you're kind of putting yourself on the world stage.
You I don't know how much of your yourself that
you put into maybe some of your professional work, but
you know, putting your own ideas in your mind and
your heart and your soul. Like that's what you know
comes through in our art. Does that ever feel weighty? Um?
(20:13):
Like like a burden, Not a burden, but like a
large weight on your shoulders, like to have to, you know,
put yourself like a lot um? Yeah, I think professionally
more than personally personally. The thing that I like about
myself is that, you know, at my job, and I
(20:33):
think just in people's work lives in general, all day
you're told no, right Like I'll pitch an idea and
they'll be like, we don't like that one. I was like, yeah,
I mean I kind of don't care at this point
because I just got hella ideas. You can tell me
no and I'm cool. But still at my job most
of the time, all day you hear no, you know
what I mean, And then you get the occasional yes,
and once you get think yes, you get to make
the ship and it's great, you know, But when I
(20:56):
do personal work, I just told myself yes, it's like, Mama,
what you think about this? Oh? You like that? Girl?
Let's get it, you know what I mean, And so
I say yes all the time of that. So when
it comes to like communicating that that's easy for me.
Like spe ship is great, I mean, it's not easy
in the sense that I have less, Uh, I have
less tools to be able to do that at the
(21:18):
levels that I want to, Like I don't I don't
have the I'm not so funded all the way yet
so where I can just like buy everything that is
that I need, hire all the people that it is
that I need um to do it the way that
I want. So that's why communication is hard on a
personal level. Get and I mean like even with events
(21:39):
or activations that I create, if I'm doing it by myself,
then that's mostly me putting my heart and soul, my time,
you know what I mean, Like all that into that,
you know what I mean, and then a few people
who actually believe it could help to steel help too,
and it'll come out. But stuff you do professionally, it's
a lot easier to communicate your thoughts than ideas because
(22:01):
you have way more people that you're working with on
that level, and there's already a machine in place to
put it out perfect, you know what I mean. Like
you don't really have to worry about all the bucks
and stuff. And yeah, sometimes you feel pressured because I
think working in a kind of white space, you become
the black voice, and that is uh uh, it's like
(22:25):
a double edged forward. It's like, yeah, I get to
like put my voice out there and like say stuff.
But it's like, uh, I don't represent all black people.
Why you come into me like I represent us all?
You know what I mean that I would say, that's
where some pressure comes from. And then it also feels
pressure because sometimes you feel like you're only there because
they want a black voice. You're not there because they
(22:47):
see your work, you know what I mean. Sometimes you're
there as a check mark. And it's like, regardless of
how dope you are, they're only gonna put your own
projects that have to do with blackness. They'n I'm gonna
put your own projects because you the dopest. Yeah I mean,
and I canna put your own projects because even though
you studied, I don't know, you could like, MMM's some weird.
(23:07):
You can know everything about how backpacks are made. You
could have had your own store, you could have been
a manufacturer of it, but they may not know that,
you know. I mean maybe they do, but they may
not put you on that just because they want you
on the black brief, you know. And sometimes we feel
pressure in that sense, you know, I mean because it's
like breath, I'm I'm black, and you know there is
(23:28):
a and in there, like I am black and a
gamer and a singer and this end of that, you
know what I mean. Like, and I think sometimes companies
just put you in black and so that's all you
have to offer is black. And I think there's pressure
in that because sometimes I think people don't want to
leave those jobs because it is a job. And then
(23:49):
sometimes you don't want to let the community down because
it's like funck, if I don't do it, who is
gonna do it? And if they do do it, you
know they're gonna do it wrong. And then you're gonna
feel pressure that it's your fault in a sense because
you didn't want to be that person so important you
do cool pressure ash, Yeah, like just hear you say
(24:10):
all that, Like there's so many there's so many layers
to it, because you know, just thinking, you know, when
I am assigned to write something black black in the
notes because I am black, Well, I think, well, I'm
glad you didn't you know, Scarlett Johnds in this. You know,
I'm you didn't put a white person on this. That
was the right thing to do. But then on top
of that, the problem is you didn't have any other
(24:31):
black people to go to. So that means that you
ain't speaking to enough black people either or working with
enough enough black people either. UM. So yeah, there's just
so many layers to it. UM. So I want to
talk to you about your processes of growth and transformation,
like over time um, and your work and like losing
(24:51):
people and gaining people along the way, um, because I
feel like that's a large part of our changing identity
over time. And it's inevitable to lose people into because
you're changing and you know there are people there who
who can't handle your change, and you know, you find
out things about people through that. So how has that
process been through you? I mean for you? UM, I
(25:16):
would say lonely and easy a little bit. So again,
my childhood kind of prepared me that I appreciate God
and all the hardships I'll be getting because in the
long run, I always see it as a positive. So,
you know, my family is sucking and being asholes and ship.
It made me cutting off people, friends, strangers easy because
(25:37):
the hardest thing I ever had to do was block
my mom, you know what I mean, or run away
from home or you know what I mean, like not
talk to like my sister and yeah or whoever the
like the hardest thing for me ever was telling myself
that I deserve more and that more is more than
my family, you know what I mean? And so ever
(26:00):
since then I'll drop a motherfucker in two seconds. Like
the moment somebody shows me who they are, I believe it.
I am that I'm one of those people. Like if
you show me that you don't care about me as
a humman, if you don't care about my work, if
you're working on a project and you don't care, if
you do any of that stuff, I will drop you.
(26:22):
Because nobody is more in prayerant than myself to myself. Um,
and so that's easy for me. Like you can ask people.
I drop people left to right. I have no issues
with it. My black my block game is strong. I'll
block you from all faceted and you know they're the
ones that regret it because we all like I'm just
going to continue to be great, Like, I don't hurt people.
I'm not the person hindering people, you know what I mean.
(26:44):
I'm just creating good work and try to be out
here to be happy and live. But you know, people
are selfish and people always want to impede on that.
And I don't know why people make it so hard,
but people do, and so I just make it easy
for them. I'm like, well, I just let you. I'm
just letting you know, not the one. Uh, go ahead
and enjoy this block. I hope you have a great
ass life. I just don't want to see it and
(27:06):
I don't want you to see me, but you will
because I'm great and that that's cool and uh yes
black claps can't say by um yeah, so that's not
hard for me. I think it's just lonely. I think
what people don't talk about is how lonely it is
trying to accomplish your goals. If you are actually accomplishing
your goals, you are by yourself. You're by yourself because
(27:29):
nobody will understand or appreciate the vision as much as you.
You have to put in the worst nobody else can
put in the work you make it help along the way.
But ultimately people are trying to come to the fire
that you've already started, you know what I mean. Nobody
is actually building it with you. You already started the fire,
and people are coming around to be warm as well.
(27:50):
So you gotta do the work. And it's lonely. You're
gonna have a hard time finding people, like especially if
you're moving around like I do. It's hard finding people
when you move to a new city who are on
the same page. You know, I was super blessed to
go to scott I keep talking about it because I
fucking love that place, because I feel like that was
such a blessing to just be in a space where
everybody was trying to be great and everybody was dope,
(28:12):
and we would all put our all we would be
up to the stay of and still happiest because we're creating,
you know what I mean. You do not find that
in the regular world. You do not find people who
will just stay up to create greatness. You don't find
people or that um determined to their dreams, who will
stay up and look shut up and like do trial
and error, who will put all the money in something like.
(28:35):
We just don't find those people who will genuinely help
you and help themselves, like you don't find it, you
know what I mean? For the fruit friends that I
have or I like that we're all at different cities.
We all went this gud and now we're dispersed all
over the world, and so I have to like call people.
There's people I only talk to you once a year.
There's some people always talk to like once every two months.
But those phone calls are so important because I'm talking
(28:56):
to somebody else who's like minded, and we help each
other going because this ship is lonely, bro, and it's
like you're just like, yo, I see you in New
York doing your thing. I know this ship sucks. If
you need anything, I got you like, what project you like?
What project you're working on? Oh, I know somebody who
can help you do that. You call that person you
helped them out, Get what I mean, and it's like, okay, man,
we're gonna breathe, We'll take a second. We got this,
(29:20):
and then you go back to work. And if you
both put out dope ship, you congratulate you ch osen,
but you're still far away, so you're still lonely. Um. Yeah,
So that's what I would saying for me, it's not
hard to drop people Like there's somebody right now that
I'm about to drop, you know what I mean, Like,
it's not hard, and I'm sire is it's not hard
for me to drop the minute that I recognize that
(29:41):
you're not that you're not in this for that if
I if I, if I realize that you're trying to
use me for something else, I don't have time. Life
is short. Life is too short to be disrespected, you
know what I mean. And I'm just not about that life.
I only want positive energy and greater as ship and
if you're needed of those things, I have no issu.
She's getting rid of like none. We'll be back after
(30:02):
a quick break. So, uh, this podcast is you know,
we talk a lot about solutions. It's called After a
Punk Solution Sessions, so to various things like we've been
talking about reprojective justice. Um, we've been talking about prison
abolition along those lines, and I think a lot of
the time people don't realize on another thing we've been
talking about is like how everybody can contribute in any way.
(30:24):
It doesn't have to be some major grand act or anything,
you know. So I think A lot of the time
people don't realize that like us as black people, just
expressing our whole real selves like is a solution. It's
an act of resistance. And we don't have to be respectable,
We don't have to be just seeing and not her.
We can we defy expectations about our passions, you know,
(30:45):
our appearances and our capabilities. But like, at the same time,
it's only this way, like we only it's an act
of resistance because we've been subjected to all these sorts
of oppression. Um, So how do you navigate that space
of like your blness being part of the reason, um,
that you're getting attention or you know, what do you
(31:06):
think about you know, just expressing yourself being an active resistance. Um,
I'm with it. I mean me, my color, my last
everything was in the in defiance of my childhood. Uh
and so like me going into and like and like
(31:28):
to be honest with me and my blackness. That was
something I had to learn about after college. I didn't
even really have to deal with it until after I graduated.
Like that's crazy, but like my life, I was dealing
with so much ship yeah, with my family and my
childhood that I didn't. I wasn't in a space that
I'm black. I was in a space that, oh, I
(31:50):
need to make it till the next day. Oh I
need to figure out how I'm gonna be able to
keep this homework. How am I going to make these
grades when I like, when I don't have this? How
am I going to do this for my dad? Out
of doing this to me? Like, how am I going
to do this when like, you know, at me, Like, so, my, my,
my experience with that stuff happened way later, you know
what I mean. And it was like literally after I
left God and stuff with God was so international, we
(32:12):
still didn't really have to deal with it. Like we
was all separated by the stuff that we did, not
how we looked. And so like when I you know,
when I went to Chicago, that was when I was like, oh,
you're black, You're not a fun And I was like,
you know, and that was my first time having to
really come into it and really learn how to deal
(32:33):
with it, you know what I mean. It's like a
crash course, like like you know, some of us don't
get told when we're kids this you're black, and this
is how it affects you, you know, what I mean,
Like you just get thrown into the world and you
have to learn that. So you know, if if people
look at the course of my work, it gets exceptionally
more black the older I get because I had a
(32:56):
really like I realized that later when I didn't realize
that I knew I was black. But you know what
I mean, like I had to deal with it and
and how that relates to the world later. What are
we talking about? How do we navigate this space? You
know how sometimes you forget but yeah, so like me
navigating the space now, I mean, I'm just in it,
(33:16):
you know what I mean, Like I didn't make you
do what to do. Like I'm a black girl and
this is how I address Uh, It's like if you
don't like it, I don't really care. And sometimes I
think sometimes it's hard because you it's hard for me
sometimes to navigate it because I don't know if somebody's
acting because I'm multiple things, So I don't know if
somebody's treating me bad because I'm bad, you know what
I mean, or chubby or whatever the fun you want
(33:37):
to call it. I don't know somebody's treating me bad
because I'm a woman. I don't know if somebody's treating
me back because I'm black, and I don't know if
somebody's treating me back because of the way that I dressed. Yeah,
I mean, So it's like there's all these different filterers
and ideas and sucking thought processes I have to go
through to see why somebody is treating me or why
they're interacting with me the way that they're interacting with
(33:58):
you and mean, um, And so when it's white people,
most of the time, most of the time they interacted
with you because you're black a certain way, you know
what I mean. If they interacted you with a certain way,
you know, it's because you acting like this because the
color of my skins and whatever, you know what I mean.
But sometimes I'm like, for acting like this because of
(34:19):
the way that I dressed, you know what I mean. Like,
even if I wasn't black, people would still be going
crazy and acting all weird towards me, you know what
I mean. So it's it's it's an additional thing that
I'm black too, and I'm like, uh, you know what
I mean. But I can tell when it's about my outfit,
you know, And then I can tell when it's about
the way and like my size, I can tell on
somebody's I can worried about that, you know what I mean?
And then you add on the block and the stuff.
You just be thinking about ship all the time. So
(34:41):
like the way that I navigate it is just by
not giving a fun. It's like people, the people didn't
like me for just being born. They didn't like the
way that I was. I'm like, if people can't like
me off default, then of course there's some people people
who don't like me. Wants to come into myself and
it's just like this ship don't matter. It's not a
I give a talk about myself. As long as I'm
(35:01):
doing dope stuff, I don't really care. Don't like me, cool,
you're bad, you missed out? I don't care. That is
how I never do. I don't care, like you know
what I mean, Like I'm black great, Like I'm a
creative great. Like if you don't like that, okay, just
don't try to stop me, because yeah, I'll hand you've
(35:24):
come back with a vengeance. Yeah, so I know we're
you know we're getting out there in time. But I
have one more question. So I know that whether you
want it to be this way or not, or whether
it's intentional or not. You you know, I think you
(35:44):
are or can be our ore a role model to
a lot of black girls, are like black youth in general,
just like them seeing you do your thing, you know,
them seeing you be successful and be the type of
person you are just be the person than you are,
And I just love that. So I'm wondering what you
would say to younger generations who might be stuck in
(36:07):
its place, because you know, I know I was like
you you talk about growing up and how like black
people are the ones who often shown you for you
being different or being quirky, or being nerdy or whatever
it may be. Um, you know, I know, I remember
having a fight family for telling me I couldn't wear
certain things at church because it was too weird, you
know what I mean, Little things like that. Um, I
(36:29):
went through a lot of that. But you know, who
might be stuck in that place of like trying to
appease other people or to conform to societal expectations. Like
who might be afraid to express themselves not because of
their own personal fear, but because of these ideas that
are forced upon them by the people who people who
are closest to them and far away from them. So like,
(36:49):
how what would you say to them to kind of
become this person who you are today? Like to help
them along that path to get there faster because you know,
I wish you didn't have to be that way, but
if you can, if you can give them something to
to help them get closer to that point where you are,
what would you say? That's the great question. Um Uh.
(37:11):
I would say that freedom is the best thing about
this world. And if you yourself, if you yourself can
allow yourself to be free, then how are you upset
that nobody else's I think that first you have to
allow yourself to be free. First you have to not
(37:33):
put yourself in a cage. And I think as long
as you put yourself in a cage, other people will
put you in a cage. And you can't be upset
when other people are putting you on cages when you
haven't really to let yourself out. Um I think that,
you know, I I had all these ideas growing up,
and I just wanted to do all this stuff, but
(37:54):
I felt so stuck and I felt so cage and I,
you know, to that physically couldn't. But it was like
the moment I had freedom and the physical sense because
sometimes you can't. So there are people out there who
cannot because like you're a kid and you're in your
parents house type ship. Then to that, I would say,
(38:17):
hold strong, keep your ideas in your head and the moment,
the moment you get it equaling the freedom run run
like a my birth because that's what I did. But uh,
I was I gonna say, oh oh yeah. So when
I finally got he's a place where I got to
choose what I did that day, you know what I mean?
(38:38):
Like college was my freedom, you know what I mean.
And that was the first time where it was like
I am not around anybody. I could do whatever I want.
I don't have to wake up at a streight time,
I don't have to address this, I don't have to
answer to this person. I could choose to go to class,
I could choose not to go to class. Like the
moment you get some type of freedom, like God, there
is nothing better than waking up and doing what you want.
(39:01):
You chose a job that you got, You chose the
thing that you're you're wearing, you know what I mean.
You choose all these these things, and so it's like,
if you can give yourself the freedom to express yourself,
to fully be yourself, there is nothing better. And once
you give yourself freedom, you automatically demand that other people
do too. Like I don't even have to say ship.
(39:21):
People just come up to me and they know that
I'm in a creative space, you know what I mean.
Like I'm demanding that they recognize God, get what I'm saying.
Like I didn't have to say ship, you know, and
like the more work that I put in out, you
know what I mean, Like people recognize me. I haven't
got to say my name in some places doesn't even
me too, my own horn, that's me. I can literally
work the place and people like, oh, that's not low,
(39:43):
you know what I mean. But that's freedom in a sense, right,
I don't have to open my mouth. I ain't gotta
do ship. You already know who I am. You're probably
gonna give me some food or something. And I'm dressed
the way that I am. No, I can't paid in
a sense to dress up in twochoos. I'm at work
right now and a t a Pokemon hat and a
(40:05):
and a Pokemon shirt and I'm getting paid. And you
couldn't have told me that at six years old, you
know what I mean? Or at seven the ship that
I already like, i'd still be able to be in
and do and get paid, you know what I mean.
So it's just it's just freedom and freedom is I mean,
come on too, you black, so you know how important
(40:26):
freedom is what I'm saying, like flame jumps for fot
but like it, yeah, man, Like I think that my
my honest advice to be the quickest that you can
give yourself freedom, the quickest that you can allow yourself
to express yourself and not care. Because nobody can tell
you how to not care. You just have to figure
(40:48):
out how the funk you do that. And once you
do that, do it. Everybody's way of doing it is different,
you know what I mean. My way of not caring
is dressing up as a cat and still me mugging
people and not talking to them. A hold on, yeah
you know yeah, like you know me, that's that's like
for me, that's like ultimate freedom, or wearing a ball
(41:09):
gown because it's Tuesday. That's how I show that I
don't care, you know what I mean, Because I'm just
doing things that I like to do and I'm not
rating for a special occasion to do it. I'm just
doing it, you know. So whatever way that it is
for you to do that and give yourself that freedom, man,
do it. The quicker you do it, the quicker you
hold the power. And once you own that you've got it,
(41:31):
you do exting. Well, all right, unless there's anything else
you want to add, then we can wrap up now. Um,
the only thing I have that is Momo Land except
some of the six uh in Portland, Oregon, and I
will have a contest to fly people out here. You
will stay in the Jupiter Next hotel. It will be
(41:53):
decorated by my pixelated self, and you will tend Momo
les and you will get all the goodness and you'll
be able to have lunch for me. So folks could
check out momo pixel dot com so that we can
all be black and weird and happy together. And uh,
afro punk is dope. You're dope, and let's all be
(42:14):
dope together. That's it. Stay tuned, y'all because we'll be
back in the coming weeks with more interviews. Afro Punk
Solution Sessions is a co production between afro Punk and
how stuff Works. Your hosts are Bridget Todd and Eve's
(42:34):
Jeff Cope. Executive co producers are Julie Douglas, Jocelyn Cooper,
and Kuan latif Hill. Dylan Fagan is supervising producer and
audio engineer. Many many thanks to Casey, Pegram and Any
Reese for their production and editorial oversight, and many thanks
to our on the ground Atlanta crew, Ben Boland, Corey
Oliver and Noel Brown. The understide of Power is performed
(42:56):
by Algiers. Connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, and insta
gram at acropunk
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