June 5, 2018 • 39 mins
Racism is a virus. It permeates society at the individual and structural level. And just when you think we have a handle on it, it mutates, seeping deeper into the fabric of society. In this episode, Bridget and Yves tear at the fabric.
NY Times Article on racism and wealth: nyti.ms/2u13VVI
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
I live in Louisianna. I remember when Alstons Sterling was killed.
I remember seeing the video of Alton Sterling and then
you know, turning over to going to sleep, and then
hearing another pin on my phone and looking opening my
phone and then amearily. Thereafter on my timeline came the
video of Philandel Castile. As a second video is released
showing another angle of the deadly shooting of thirty seven
(00:25):
year old out On Sterling. This new video showing one
officer penning Sterling to the ground while another officer Neil's
on his arm outside the Baton Rouge convenience stool. You
can see one officer drawing his gun and moments later
shots fired. And I remember laying in my bed, enraged, sad,
(00:50):
and thinking like is this what it means to be
a black person in America? You know in present day
that you can you know, watch the modern day wnching
and then have to turn over and go to sleep,
wake up and go to work there next morning. Um ass,
nothing has happened or nothing is wrong. We're waiting for
him back. I will sir, no worries. You had more
(01:11):
than one million times before being taken down on Facebook.
The video shows the traffic stop turned deadly. Thirty two
year old Filando Castile, along with his girlfriend and her child,
pulled over last night. The beginning of the incident not
on tape, but Castile was shot, his arm bloodied, the
woman in shot, but continuing to live stream the situation
(01:32):
on Facebook. She says. The officer fire reportedly four times.
Castile transported to the hospital later died from his injuries.
(01:55):
You're listening to afro Punk Solution Sessions. I'm your host,
bridget Todd. Afropunk is a safe place, a blank space
to freak out in, to construct a new reality, to
live our lives as we see fit while making sense
of the world around us. Here at Afropunk, we have
the conversations that matter to us, conversations that lead to solutions. See,
(02:16):
Racism is like that super bug. Every movement, every attempt
to treat is devastating symptoms has only become more clever,
more invisible, and harder to kill. That's Matthew Kincaid, the
founder of Overcoming Racism. At Solution Sessions in Atlanta, he
explained how racism functions like a virus, leaving people like
(02:38):
Philando Castile and Alton Sterling in its wake. Once you
start thinking about America as an infected country full of
infected people moving through infected systems, it's easy to see
the symptoms everywhere in our criminal justice system, and our
healthcare and our political system. The tendrils of this virus
make their way through society, but the most dangerous diseases
(03:01):
are the ones that can lark without showing obvious symptoms.
Infected people can spread disease without even knowing their sick.
Entire populations become tainted before people even acknowledge there's a problem.
This is a super bug. This bacteria has the ability
to resist the effects of medicine previously used to treat
his symptoms, effectively becoming more dangerous, more insidious, and more
(03:26):
pervasive with each attempt to cure is devastating symptoms. Think
about the way that a virus spreads. Viruses, and there
are many different kinds of them can be scattered with
each particle of saliva and mucus when one sneezes or
coughs for it. But do not think for a moment
that cold producing viruses are spread only by sneezing and coughing.
(03:49):
If by some magic the tiny particles of saliva and
mucus could be made visible as a black smudge, we
quickly would realize, and how many other ways we are
apt to scattered bacteria and viruses all around us. If
racism is a virus and our community is infected, this
virus has infiltrated our country on a systemic level. We've
(04:11):
been talked to function as if systemic racism doesn't exist.
So we're living in a country full of people who
refusing to believe they're sick. But the thing about viruses
is the in fact entire communities, whether folks believe in
them or not. I think the analogy to viruses or
infections does make sense when it comes to hate crimes,
because what we've seen when the reasoning behind the uptick
(04:35):
and hate crimes, for example, over the election, has to
do with the kind of rhetoric that we saw in
the campaign. That's Heidi Byreck. She tracks hate crimes for
the Southern Poverty Law Center. Michael host Eves, Jeff Code
and I interviewed Heidi who says there's definitely a spreading effect.
There has been research actually recently from the University of
Warwick that at tracks Donald Trumps tweets that were racist
(04:58):
or bigoted, and actually we connected them literally to hate crimes.
The study did the same thing showing that anti Muslim
speech from a particular political party in Germany, the alternative
for Germany, which is Rabbit, the anti Muslim was also
connected to hate violence. So it makes sense in this
kind of pathological way. What do you think he's Yeah,
(05:20):
I think if we're talking about how racism has spread
like a virus, we really see that exploding since the election,
since presidential election. But that wasn't where it started. Is
people like to make it seem like, oh, well, there's
just been this explosion of racism or hate because Trump
(05:41):
and his cronies are in office, But we know that
racism has been present in America and throughout all of
the systems in America like education and healthcare forever. Really, yeah,
that's definitely true. I think that for a while, people's
racism kind of came out in a little bit more
(06:04):
of a covert way. I do think that Donald Trump
made it in vogue again to be overtly racist, and
you didn't have to code it in these dog whistles anymore. Honestly,
I kind of agree with Heidi that he's sort of
patient zero. If you're thinking about racism as a virus.
I think it's really funny that you use the word
in Vogue because it just like triggers triggers me to
think about fashion and how like it is this cool thing.
(06:25):
And I think a lot of people think about it
that way, like it's cool to hop on this bandwagon,
Like contrary to the like, oh, it's cool to be woke,
it's cool to be liberal, it's cool to be a
social justice activist. It also seems like on the other side,
like it's cool to be a Nazi. We're the big dog,
and we said wherever we want because America is the best,
(06:47):
and everybody recognizes that. Maybe sometimes you're jealous, but maybe
they should be after me. I have a proud Western chauvinist.
I have a proud Western triggerist. And I refused to apologize.
I refused to all for creating the modern world, for
creating the modern world. Yeah, it's like it's cool to
(07:08):
be holding a tiki torch in the street and screaming
at a mother for speaking Spanish in a cafe. I
think I think we've reached a point where that's kind
of its own form of cool at this point, right,
And those instances, if we're talking about virality, those instances
spread through social media, and I think when other people
see the tiki torches and people screaming and spitting another's faces,
(07:33):
that maybe we are desensitized to it, but also that
people are inspired by it. And it's hard not to
be desensitized to it when our president is tweeting hateful,
overt racist stuff pretty much every day, like right, Like
let's not even start with that. Like, of course, Twitter
(07:56):
a place where everything spreads news, hatefulness, joy, sometimes black joy.
But yeah, his tweets, and he's he's really used a
platform which one can say is kind of like good
if our diversifying and speaking about issues that may not
(08:17):
be spoken about in normal media or news outlets. He's
really used that to his advantage to be a huge asshole.
But that assholeness it's not confined to just his office.
It's the whole world that gets to hear him. This
racism being spread. It's not just throughout America. It's like
(08:38):
everybody gets to see everybody gets to see our ass
So I feel like when a lot of people think
about racism they think about men marching in the streets
and sort of being mean the people of color, and
they kind of forget that it's so systemic, Right, It's
not just these singular instances or aggressions necessarily, it's things
(09:01):
that are really entranced deeply into the different systems that
are at work in America. Yeah, and I feel like
we throw this idea of quote broken systems around, but
really these systems aren't really broken. They're actually functioning the
exact way they were designed to function, which is lacking
black folks out while giving white folks a leg up. Yes,
these systems that were created are running, like you said,
(09:23):
are running exactly as they're supposed to. And that means
that they're marginalizing people perpetually. And that means that they're
oppressing people perpetually, and that means that these systems are
continually holding black people down. Yeah, and more than that,
they're holding us down while half the country is not
even willing to acknowledge they even exist. So it's like,
(09:45):
we're functioning in this fucked up system and half the
people are like, what funked up system? You know, we're
going to ever truly root out system racism. It has
to start with education of ourselves and all of us,
you know, across the country, looking in the mirror, to
think about how is this system created, what was created for?
How is the main thing? And through understanding that we
(10:06):
can work to unravel ourselves from it in many ways,
just to make racism um is just as American as
apple pie or any other or baseball or whatever the
case may be. And so envisioning America without racism is
not easy, but we have to, you know, be able
to envision that if we're gonna ever work towards that end.
We'll talk more about racism as a virus after this
(10:28):
quick break. At Solution Sessions, panelist Melissa Harris Perry described
how the disease of racism shows up in our bodies
and death consequences. That that movement, that shape shift, and
that thinking, that twist and that turning, that constant thinking
and having to strategize about every damn moment of your
(10:51):
life literally changes your bio chemistry. It changes the end
of your DNA. The fibroids are not the fried chicken
I wish they were. I mean, the fried chicken is
the is the clog arteries that is a different thing.
But the thing that's going on inside of our bodies
(11:14):
is the racism. That is the manifestation, is the tiki torches,
It is the manifestation of It ain't microaggression. These are
not microaggressions. These are just aggressions and having to bob
and weave around them. Twenty four seven is actually a
lot and it shows up in our schools. For centuries
(11:36):
in this country, people of color were denied the chance
to an education. That mutated in the school segregation, which
is mutated into our school system today that is still
failing black and brown kids, and it's resisted every movement
for change. Matthews from Louisiana. He founded Overcoming Racism, an
(11:56):
organization that works with schools, teachers, and young people to
tackle systemic oppression and racism the same way that teachers
report pink eye and check kids for life. Mat do
you think schools need to be the first line of
defense and inoculating against the virus of systemic racism because
you can't get well if you don't acknowledge your set. Oftentimes,
school environments promote a mids of meritocracy, this notion that
(12:19):
if you just work hard and if you just show
more grit, then um, that is the ingredient to overcome
any systemic barrier this in your way. But when you
tell a kid who is on the receiving end a
generational poverty, um, manufactured generational poverty through you know, redlining policy, UM,
you know, through employment discrimination, you name it. Um, the
(12:41):
kids on the receiving it of generational lack of access
to quality education, that all they need to do is
just work their way out of it. Um. That's a
really uncare message to provide a child without providing any
sort of historical or present day UM context of socio
political awareness around the obstacles that they're navigating and the
daily list experience. So, if racism is a superbug, it's
(13:03):
infected every aspect of our country, and its legacy is
still tainting the systems and machinery that we moved through today.
After World War Two, the country enacted the g I
Bill to help returning soldiers by homes to ease them
back in the civilian life through low cost mortgages and
low interest loans. Now, my grandfather he served in World
War Two, but when he came home, he was barred
from taking part of the same system that all his
(13:25):
white peers were benefiting from. So my grandfather's white peers,
they stunt out their civilian life being set up with
this nice nest egg in the form of their home,
and he doesn't. So when it comes time to send
their sons to college, who was an easier time. And
while Grandpa's white peers are able to pass that house,
he got that sweet dealon down to his adult son
to set him up with a comfortable life early on,
(13:47):
my grandpa he can't do the same with my dad
and that white son. Maybe he grows up to have
a kid of his own, and when that kid's old
enough for college, he could use that house as collateral
to pay for it. Meanwhile, by virtue of polo sees
that are racist by design that some historians actually say
are deliberately designed to accommodate Jim Crow, my grandfather, my father,
(14:07):
and me are all shot out of generations of opportunities
that are white peers always had access to. What people
refusing knowledge that because we have not directly addressed the
past inequities, right, they've just continued and morphed into inequities
exist today. You know, you can look across the country.
(14:28):
You know, redlining is not is no longer deepally enforceable,
but you know, there are banks that are settling losses
all over the nation for excluding people of color and
having spluctionary lending practices for people of colors who have
the credit score and who have the down payment, but
still are not being rented at homes in certain neighborhoods
because of fear that they're going to reduce property values.
(14:51):
One of the things that people can say it like, well, no,
this isn't a race issue in the crash, but when
you you know, really blows down the data that doesn't
bear out truth. And so you know, when we look
at the incarceration rate in this country, when we look
at the health care disperities, we look at education disperities,
gift three in the fact that we're more segregated now
than we were four years ago, when we look at
the spirities and housing lending, and then now the answer
(15:12):
the gentrification, which is pushing people coming out of the
inner city environments that they were relegated to for numbers
of years. When when we look across all of these
different perspectives, what we see is that these policies that
existed in the past have really been perfected. Let may
ask you something, and be honest, do you think there's
(15:37):
a black lawyer who's as good as your cousin? There
definitely is, but part of being good at your job
or your connections, and black people just don't have the
connections that my cousin has for sy stetmic reasons. Systemic
racism is first and foremost a system of advantage. And
(15:57):
when we talk about racism, one of the things that
we talk about most often is how systemic racism adversely
affects people of color, But we don't talk about the
other side of that coin, which that the system is
set up to, you know, provide advantages to white people.
And that's one of the truths that, for whatever reason,
it seems easier to acknowledge the pain and the oppression
(16:17):
and the violence that systemic racism levies on the bodies
of people of color. But for some reason, it's much
more challenging for us as a nation to address the
fact that the entire system was set up to benefit
um a small minority of people, and that minority people
that are set up to benefit has grown and expanded
over time. But you know, people didn't mistreat other people
(16:38):
just because they didn't like them or didn't understand them.
These systems are set up to create distinct advantages for
some um by you know, creating out and out group
to solidify power within collective in group. A lot of
white people may see the ways that black those are
set up to be treated as second class citizens in America,
but will probably be less willing to admit how that
same system that oppress us, we'll set up to give
(17:00):
them benefits and advantages that they've been benefiting from their
entire lives. Now, this is what Matthew calls the asset
value of whiteness. If you look at the wealth gap
in this country, there's a phenomenal piece called the asset
value of whiteness. You know, people say, well, the reason
why black families, it's not racism, right, it's it's you know,
there's just too many homes without black fathers in the home.
And if if black people would just invest in the
(17:22):
into marriage and black fathers will stay in the home,
then there will be no no gath. But if you
look at the gaps in wealth, black two parent households
have about half the net wealth as white civil parent households.
You say, well, no, it's not racism. Education. If people
in the black community would just double down and focus
on in the education, then you know that would close
these gaps. It's not just in the race of them,
(17:42):
is it's it's a cultural thing. Is they're just they
don't care about the education. If you look at the
data around wealth, you know, black families who have graduated
from college have significantly less at wealth than white families
who have some or no college. Well, it's because they're lazy.
They just don't want to they don't want to work,
you know. But then you look at the data and
you find out that black families of full time work
(18:03):
have left net wealth and white families of part time work.
But a boy born black and rich in America, well
there's a strong chance he won't when you account for
things like education and income level, disparities along racial lines
still persist. Now, if you want a visual representation of
how this plays out, check out the New York Times.
Peace in the show notes, there are all these messages
(18:24):
that we've created as a culture in a community to
help us to explain to our young people, you know,
how to stay safe in a culture in a system
that is inherently violent towards them. Right, we teach our
young people how to stay alive in encounters with the police,
rather than teaching law enforcement officers how not to kill
our young people, who are unarmed and bright and full
(18:46):
of potential. We teach our young people how to run
faster and jump higher over the hurdles where systemic racism
places in their way. But we don't necessarily always as
a collective group of adults of all races, think about
how when we create a level playing field for all kids.
Line up, everybody line up, We're about to race. Everybody
(19:07):
line up. Hey, we are, We are racing for our bail.
And so we do one activity in our workshop. It's
a level plane for the activity. Um, you know, we're realistic.
People have seen it, probably a lie, but realist of statements.
And you know, people have privileged up in the front
and people who have marginalized. Um, I think it will
end up in the back. And at the end of
the activity, we have folks run to this line of success.
(19:29):
And so obviously the metaphor, you know, people who are
in the front are kind of right there. People in
the back are really you know, busting their tail to
get there. And one of the things that I talked
about after that activity, once we kind of talked about
it in debriefed it is that, well, there's a few things.
Number One, for the people in the back, you know,
because of proximity, you're not even really running against the
(19:50):
people in the front, but people in the front have
already pretty much you know, it's been placed very close
to the finished line. And so because of that, right,
many times we're placing positions where we feel like we're
running against one another, and so we see things. We
see things like internalized depression playing out in our community
as we're all trying to run this collective race to
you know, reach this kind of artificial line of success.
(20:12):
But the other thing is is that sometimes these are
adults to the activity. You see people who are way
in the back, right and I tell them to run
to the line of success, and they just freeze where
they walk because you know, the activity in many ways,
it's kind of silly. And I always ask the participants,
what do we say about kids who see very critically
(20:36):
and very intelligently just how unfair the situation that they've
been placing is, and they choose not to play the
game right. They choose not to like run this rat
race um, in this race that they were intended to fail, um.
And we say all kind of negative things about those
young people. And then what do we say to the
young people who have been running this race and running
(20:57):
it perfectly the time that they're sixteen or seventh or
twenty or twenty one, they're exhausted right before they even
had a chance to really live their lives opportunity. We
don't want to recognize that we've been given a head start,
but the reality is we have now there's no excuse.
(21:18):
You need to be twice as good is a common
refrain a lot of us grew up with, and in
many ways that is true, and there are actually a
lot of studies that would that would suggestive that is true.
But it makes me think of the story of John Henry.
And you know, in the Sawyer John Henry. John Henry
is this African American man, you know, early nine dred.
(21:39):
He his entire identity, you know, is wrapped up in
this notion that he could lay down railroad tracks faster
than any other person. And so well, what does the
railroad company do? They create a machine, they create a
machine they can lay down railroad track faster than any man.
And so John Henry tells the railroad company there is
there is no way that this machine can beat me.
And so he races the machine and he wins, but
(22:02):
he dies at the end of the story. And in
many ways, I think that is the story of being
black in America. We constantly teach our young people to
race against this machine, to be just that much smarter,
to be just that much stronger, to run just that
(22:23):
much faster, to work just that much harder. Matthew says
that we ask black youth to be that much better, stronger,
and faster to compete in a race where they're set
up to fail, and we do so without thinking much
about the toilet takes on their mental health and overall
well being. But if we really cared about setting them
up for success, then they would instead of asking, you know,
(22:43):
people's color to run faster, to be better, they would,
you know, ask why are they running this race in
the first place. We'll be back with more solution sessions
after this break. What are the unwritten rules of being
black in America that you've internalized? M hmmm, well, a
few I can think of our don't be too aggressive,
especially for black women. Don't be too loud, what else?
(23:06):
What else? Bridget don't walk too quickly behind someone. Yeah,
don't make any sudden movements and dealing with the police.
Don't exist. Basically, just don't be a human body in public.
Just never leave your house. Never leave your home, right,
that's that's not okay, right, Yeah, we're we're kind of
joking about it, but it can really as just existing
(23:29):
or leaving the house can lead to extreme and serious
harm and even death. Right, just look at some of
the recent headlines. Don't play golf too slowly, don't stay
in an airbnb, don't try to get into your own home,
don't sit on your own stoop, don't barbe you in
the park, don't look at somebody wrong. Really, just don't
(23:50):
do anything right. Every Sunday after church, when I was
growing up, we drive to the Applebee's at the regentc
Square Mall in Richmond, Virginia dinner. Well. It was classics
also known as the White Mall and the nice part
of town, so you have to be parked. My parents
(24:10):
would lie on all the kids up against the car
our backs, literally touching the car door, no begging, no stealing,
no running, no jumping, don't ask me for anything, don't
talk too loud, don't touch anything, don't embarrass me in here.
All these rules, all these rules, I can almost say
them by heart, but I later found out these rules
don't apply to everybody. Dr Droid The group wrote a
(24:33):
book called post Traumatic Slave Syndrome. And she talks to
her talk about you know, like imagine a black kid
in a bank, like a little kid, maybe five or
some important place. And so she asked her audience, you know,
when she's speaking to the audience, she asked them, you know,
what are the rules? You know she has black people,
What are the rules? Did you tell your kid before
you want to bank? And it's kind of a funny
moment because there are some in some ways these universal rules. Right,
(24:53):
It's like, you know, don't say anything, stay close to me,
and um, don't touch anything, right, you know, don't embarrass
me in this bank. You know this is you know,
we care a lot about how people perceive us in public,
every result of people judging our entire race. When you know,
based upon the actions of Sun you just gave me
a flashback to my childhood. You just get that was
(25:14):
like a real life I would kind of forgot, like
without even knowing. Yeah, I and you said that, and
I had completely blacked this out of my of my
adult life. But that before we went into a store
or a mall or especially a bank, we gotta talking
to though was don't touch anything, don't ask for anything,
or embarrassed me to run around, you know. And I
(25:35):
think I did not even realize until this moment that
that where that comes from. So you imagine this little
black kid in this bank, right, it's obviously a metaphorical situation,
but they see a white kid in the bank, right,
And just in this example, the white kid is making noise,
(25:57):
the white kid is moving around, the white kid is
touching things subconsciously. That's doing something really distinct for this kid. First,
this white kid is breaking all of the rules, right,
Like these are the rules. You told me that these
are the rules, So I would imagine these rules apply
to everybody. This kid is breaking all the rules. And
I'm noticing that none of the adults in this setting
are reacting to that this kid is breaking the rules.
(26:20):
But it doesn't you know, for me, the world will
be ending right now, But for this kid, the world
is an ending right. As we internalized the rules, we
also realize that other kids have by a totally different set.
And while not having the freedom to misbehave in public
doesn't sound like the worst thing in the world, it's
one way to be internalized that white kids are inherently
born with freedoms that will never have from the moment
we're born. We're picking up he was about how we're
(26:42):
supposed to behave and internalizing them like a rule up.
And so we've gotten very good at training at a
very early age our young people to live out the
realities of what it means to be a man or
a woman, what it means to be heterosexual, what it
means to be a person of color or a white person,
um and then institutions do a very good job of
reinforcing that that. The thing that is most important in
(27:03):
this is that as we get older, we get rewards
for staying in the lane that we are assigning, and
you get punishments if you step outside of that right.
And so it's very hard once we've been socialized, to
question our socialization and to act outside of that socialization.
(27:23):
America has always had a love hate relationship with blackness.
America loves black music, America loves black fashion, and America
really loves it when black athletes win championships. But when
they get loud about systemic racism and oppression, well that's
where the love of their ends. As the crowd players stand,
you can see Kaepernick kneeling on the sideline, reed joining us.
(27:48):
He's receiving heavy days here. Kaepernick says he's willing to
make real change and plans on donating a million dollars
to charities that he's been working with to help end
racial inequality. I think the perfect example of this is
Colin Kaepernick, because if you look at the NFL, you know,
there's all manner of criminals that exist or people who
have committed crimes that exist in the NFL, right, people
(28:10):
who beat their wives, people who, um, you know, committed
sexual assault, people who have killed people. You know, you
name it, um there in the NFL. But Colin Kaepernick
and Air greed choosing to kneel and too, you know,
to make a statement againstplice supremacy that is not allowed
in America, that is fundamentally against the rules, right, and
so you no longer you know the punishment that has
(28:31):
to come with that is you no longer can exist
in this space. You can do all of these things
that we expect of you, but if you step outside
and you challenge this system, there are there are consequences
to that um and that's what keeps people in their lane.
And so it's really hard for us to break out
of our socialization because you know, we learned at an
early age were rewarded if we operate within our socialization,
(28:53):
and we're punished socially if we choose to operate outside
of that. We had a case where we had an
African American who is a fan of mine, great fan,
great guy. In fact, I want to find out what's
going on with him. You know what, I'll look at
my African American over here, look at him. Are you
the greatest? Do you know what I'm talking about? This
becomes especially tricky when you think about the ways that
(29:16):
our president signals to black folks that will be rewarded
for staying in our lanes. He does this by strategically
surrounding himself with the black spokespeople were also publicly braiding
black folks who challenge his racist policies and actions. He
does this while aligning himself with white racists. Luther and
I and everyone in this arena tonight are unified by
the same great American values. We're proud of our country.
(29:40):
We respect our flag. Wouldn't you love to see one
of these NFL owners when somebody disrespects our flag, to say,
get that son of off the field right now out
he's fired. He's fired. And in this way, the virus
finds itself moving along social pathways, from one tweet to another.
(30:03):
As Heidi points out, when an important figure goes out
and takes to social media. Donald Trump, of course is
a fan of Twitter, but there are other, you know
places you could do this, just in the media in
general or another platforms. When that happens and they express
bigoted or racist statements, there is a direct connection from
that and that hatred kind of you know, pulsing through
(30:25):
our society, largely through online networks and real violence. It
connects with certain people who maybe maybe they already have
an issue with certain people of color or certain religions.
Maybe they don't, but it's a trip wire into hate crimes.
And you know, there's a certain amount of giving license
to someone's bigoted ideas when a public figure takes them
(30:47):
up right. It's one thing if somebody nobody knows says
I hate all Muslims. It's another thing when a candidate
for the presidency says, I want them all banned from
the country because they're all terrorists. You we need to
look at recent events in Charlotte's Pill, Virginia to see
how an important figure like Donald Trump is playing into
the idea of staying in your lane and not speaking
(31:07):
out against evil when you see it. We've made the
threshold of racism so high that that if you're not
carrying a torch from Charlotteville, and the President actually came
out and raised the threshold even higher than that because
he says that there are some fine people out there
who are caring towards today. We've raised the threshold to
be racist so high that no one qualifies this racism.
(31:31):
This virus is making us all sick. So what do
we do. Well, First, we don't fall back on platitudes.
Here's Matthew at solution sessions in Atlanta. Contrary to popular belief,
love does not cure white supremacy. Gradualism does not cure
white supremacy, and color blindness does not dismantle white supremacy.
(31:57):
If we're gonna dismantle white supremacy, it will take intentional
policy interventions. But if we have not yet dismounted white
supremacy in this country, we certainly need to teach our
students how to navigate it when they're in schools. And
this is the same deputy who overpowered a female high
school student who have been told to leave class for
(32:19):
using her cell phone. Classmate, Neia Kennedy, was also arrested
after speaking out. I was crying like literally screaming, crying
like a baby. The disturbing video shot by another student
in algebra class is causing a nationwide uproar. It's it's disturbing,
(32:39):
to say the very least. It's time for America to
stop pretending that it dislikes racism and actually to begin
to dislike racism. And when I go around the country,
people say things like, well, but haven't these gotten better?
Aren't there some universal things that we can agree that
we've done in the past that we're bad. And my
answer to that is, if we agree that there are
(33:01):
some things we've done in the past that are bad,
we certainly have a funny way of showing it. Matthews
has representation like black kids seeing themselves in films like
Black Panther is one small way of helping set them
up with success. When these kids found out their whole
school was going to see the new Marvel film Black Panther,
they threw an impromptu dance party. The kids all go
(33:27):
to the Ron Clark Academy in Atlanta and the film
screening is part of a two week African immersion project
for Black History Month. I mean, I think that there
is no one thing that is a cure all for
systemic racism. The reason why I was, you know racism
is systemic is because it impacts people of color and
(33:48):
white people across. Um. You know all of these different
sectors you know, education, healthcare, media, you know, employment, you
name it. So there isn't one kind of cure. But
I will say that you know, representation, so me matters. UM.
You know, your ability to see yourself as successful, Your
ability to see yourself, UM as somebody who looks like
(34:10):
whatever it is you want to be when you grow
up as thing has a direct impact on you know,
the pursuits in the striving of our young people. While
Matthews says culture confunctionist medicine to build the self esteem
kids need to function in the world. He's clear that
we need more than movies to understand and break apart
systemic oppression, and that's where our focus should be as adults.
It builds racial pride um, which I think builds students
(34:34):
armor to navigate, you know, the oppressive systems that they
have to navigate, you know, throughout their lives. However, you know,
as adults, we still have to focus on just mantling
those depressive systems. In addition to public policy, another way
to combat the virus of systemic racism is white people
having a better understanding of it if you refuse to
properly diagnose the sickness for only ensuring that it lingers
(34:56):
and gets worse. Most reasonable people, if asked, would say
racism is bad, slavery was bad, genocide is bad. But
how many of them are actually living lives intentionally dedicated
to anti racism and antipression. And while they're busy patting
themselves in the back for taking the bold stance that
racism is bad, but they even know what living a
(35:17):
life dedicated to anti racism actually looks. Like and have
they acknowledged their racist notions working in their friends, their family,
and most importantly themselves. But people will come up to
me at social gatherings, at in public or whatever, and
they'll you know, strike a conversation and what they really
want to tell me at the end of the conversation
is I'm not racist. Right, That's kind of the Either
(35:39):
they will come out and say that, or the underlying
thing is they want me as the anti racism god.
So I don't know, give them a safety pin or
a stamp of approval or a sticker or high five
and say, like you got it. Um. For someone who says,
you know, I'm not racist, that doesn't really if that
is possible, that doesn't do anything to change the lives
experience with people of color living on a daily bas
(36:00):
system um, And it doesn't do anything to change the
fact of the system of racism provides advantages um to
the people who are oftentimes saying I'm not racist. And
so what I ask list are you intentionally anti racist?
And when you ask somebody that, it's kind of a
funny moment because you know, the look on people's faces
like really changes. Being racist means you're a bad right.
(36:23):
And so you know, you can call a white person
almost any name in the book, but if you call
a white person racist, that's like the worst thing you
can call them, right, Like, that is the easiest way
to get a white person the senses is to call
them racist. But we need folks to challenge themselves to
think critically about race and whiteness and the roles they
play in keeping a systematically sick machine turning. A vast
(36:44):
majority of Americans are racially illiterate. And you can grow
up in America, go through our entire education system from
pre K through twelve, through college through graduate school, and
never one time have to critically analyze whiteness. Never one
time has at we analyze how system and races and
coronet through our society. You can be extremely well educated,
(37:05):
you can have a great job, you can make good money,
you can be influential, and never in your life had
to face the reality of how system and racism creates
disparnt outcomes for people along racial lines. And that's the
rub of white supremacy. The racial lines that systemic racism
draw on set up a blueprint for other in society.
(37:27):
Political disenfranchise, met chronic health disparities, economic injustice, unfair media portrayals,
all that bullshit. We have to break the machine that
sets us up to be systematically less than. My kids
come from kings and queens, artists and revolutionaries, visionaries and activists,
and if we don't protect their hearts, their mind, and
(37:48):
their spirit, then our future is doomed. We realize that
it's not enough to just be aware of the illness.
You've got to treat it. And Matthew was right. Our
commun to me, it's full of people who are talented, intelligent,
and relentless in their pursuit of freedom and justice. And
their strengthen that because even though the world consistently tries
(38:09):
to tell us we're not good enough, we know we've
got the power to make real change. Let's fight the
forces that other us. Let's silence the voices that tell
us we are not worthy of love or respect. Let's
resist the systems that threatened to stunt our growth and
keep us from being our best selves. We are not
powerless against our oppressives. We have the solution. What's the solution,
(38:31):
bridget educate yourself and keep educating youth. What's the solution,
Bridget be intentionally antibasist. What's the solution, Bridget listen, don't speak?
What's the solution? Bridget, don't stay in your lane. Afropunk
(38:55):
Solution Sessions is a co production between Afro Punk and
How Stuff Works. Your hosts are Bridget Todd and Eve's
Jeff Cope Executive co producers are Julie Douglas, Jocelyn Cooper,
and Kuan latif Hill. Dylan Fagan is supervising producer and
Kathleen Quillian is audio engineer. Many many thanks to Casey
Pegram and Annie Reese for their production and editorial oversight,
(39:17):
and many thanks to our on the ground Atlanta Crewe,
Ben Boland, Corey Oliver, and Noel Brown. The Underside of
Power is performed by Algiers. To learn more about Matthew
Kinkaid's Overcoming Racism training and coaching organization, check out Overcome
Racism dot com. Connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, and
Instagram at afro Punk
I live in Louisianna. I remember when Alstons Sterling was killed.
I remember seeing the video of Alton Sterling and then
you know, turning over to going to sleep, and then
hearing another pin on my phone and looking opening my
phone and then amearily. Thereafter on my timeline came the
video of Philandel Castile. As a second video is released
showing another angle of the deadly shooting of thirty seven
(00:25):
year old out On Sterling. This new video showing one
officer penning Sterling to the ground while another officer Neil's
on his arm outside the Baton Rouge convenience stool. You
can see one officer drawing his gun and moments later
shots fired. And I remember laying in my bed, enraged, sad,
(00:50):
and thinking like is this what it means to be
a black person in America? You know in present day
that you can you know, watch the modern day wnching
and then have to turn over and go to sleep,
wake up and go to work there next morning. Um ass,
nothing has happened or nothing is wrong. We're waiting for
him back. I will sir, no worries. You had more
(01:11):
than one million times before being taken down on Facebook.
The video shows the traffic stop turned deadly. Thirty two
year old Filando Castile, along with his girlfriend and her child,
pulled over last night. The beginning of the incident not
on tape, but Castile was shot, his arm bloodied, the
woman in shot, but continuing to live stream the situation
(01:32):
on Facebook. She says. The officer fire reportedly four times.
Castile transported to the hospital later died from his injuries.
(01:55):
You're listening to afro Punk Solution Sessions. I'm your host,
bridget Todd. Afropunk is a safe place, a blank space
to freak out in, to construct a new reality, to
live our lives as we see fit while making sense
of the world around us. Here at Afropunk, we have
the conversations that matter to us, conversations that lead to solutions. See,
(02:16):
Racism is like that super bug. Every movement, every attempt
to treat is devastating symptoms has only become more clever,
more invisible, and harder to kill. That's Matthew Kincaid, the
founder of Overcoming Racism. At Solution Sessions in Atlanta, he
explained how racism functions like a virus, leaving people like
(02:38):
Philando Castile and Alton Sterling in its wake. Once you
start thinking about America as an infected country full of
infected people moving through infected systems, it's easy to see
the symptoms everywhere in our criminal justice system, and our
healthcare and our political system. The tendrils of this virus
make their way through society, but the most dangerous diseases
(03:01):
are the ones that can lark without showing obvious symptoms.
Infected people can spread disease without even knowing their sick.
Entire populations become tainted before people even acknowledge there's a problem.
This is a super bug. This bacteria has the ability
to resist the effects of medicine previously used to treat
his symptoms, effectively becoming more dangerous, more insidious, and more
(03:26):
pervasive with each attempt to cure is devastating symptoms. Think
about the way that a virus spreads. Viruses, and there
are many different kinds of them can be scattered with
each particle of saliva and mucus when one sneezes or
coughs for it. But do not think for a moment
that cold producing viruses are spread only by sneezing and coughing.
(03:49):
If by some magic the tiny particles of saliva and
mucus could be made visible as a black smudge, we
quickly would realize, and how many other ways we are
apt to scattered bacteria and viruses all around us. If
racism is a virus and our community is infected, this
virus has infiltrated our country on a systemic level. We've
(04:11):
been talked to function as if systemic racism doesn't exist.
So we're living in a country full of people who
refusing to believe they're sick. But the thing about viruses
is the in fact entire communities, whether folks believe in
them or not. I think the analogy to viruses or
infections does make sense when it comes to hate crimes,
because what we've seen when the reasoning behind the uptick
(04:35):
and hate crimes, for example, over the election, has to
do with the kind of rhetoric that we saw in
the campaign. That's Heidi Byreck. She tracks hate crimes for
the Southern Poverty Law Center. Michael host Eves, Jeff Code
and I interviewed Heidi who says there's definitely a spreading effect.
There has been research actually recently from the University of
Warwick that at tracks Donald Trumps tweets that were racist
(04:58):
or bigoted, and actually we connected them literally to hate crimes.
The study did the same thing showing that anti Muslim
speech from a particular political party in Germany, the alternative
for Germany, which is Rabbit, the anti Muslim was also
connected to hate violence. So it makes sense in this
kind of pathological way. What do you think he's Yeah,
(05:20):
I think if we're talking about how racism has spread
like a virus, we really see that exploding since the election,
since presidential election. But that wasn't where it started. Is
people like to make it seem like, oh, well, there's
just been this explosion of racism or hate because Trump
(05:41):
and his cronies are in office, But we know that
racism has been present in America and throughout all of
the systems in America like education and healthcare forever. Really, yeah,
that's definitely true. I think that for a while, people's
racism kind of came out in a little bit more
(06:04):
of a covert way. I do think that Donald Trump
made it in vogue again to be overtly racist, and
you didn't have to code it in these dog whistles anymore. Honestly,
I kind of agree with Heidi that he's sort of
patient zero. If you're thinking about racism as a virus.
I think it's really funny that you use the word
in Vogue because it just like triggers triggers me to
think about fashion and how like it is this cool thing.
(06:25):
And I think a lot of people think about it
that way, like it's cool to hop on this bandwagon,
Like contrary to the like, oh, it's cool to be woke,
it's cool to be liberal, it's cool to be a
social justice activist. It also seems like on the other side,
like it's cool to be a Nazi. We're the big dog,
and we said wherever we want because America is the best,
(06:47):
and everybody recognizes that. Maybe sometimes you're jealous, but maybe
they should be after me. I have a proud Western chauvinist.
I have a proud Western triggerist. And I refused to apologize.
I refused to all for creating the modern world, for
creating the modern world. Yeah, it's like it's cool to
(07:08):
be holding a tiki torch in the street and screaming
at a mother for speaking Spanish in a cafe. I
think I think we've reached a point where that's kind
of its own form of cool at this point, right,
And those instances, if we're talking about virality, those instances
spread through social media, and I think when other people
see the tiki torches and people screaming and spitting another's faces,
(07:33):
that maybe we are desensitized to it, but also that
people are inspired by it. And it's hard not to
be desensitized to it when our president is tweeting hateful,
overt racist stuff pretty much every day, like right, Like
let's not even start with that. Like, of course, Twitter
(07:56):
a place where everything spreads news, hatefulness, joy, sometimes black joy.
But yeah, his tweets, and he's he's really used a
platform which one can say is kind of like good
if our diversifying and speaking about issues that may not
(08:17):
be spoken about in normal media or news outlets. He's
really used that to his advantage to be a huge asshole.
But that assholeness it's not confined to just his office.
It's the whole world that gets to hear him. This
racism being spread. It's not just throughout America. It's like
(08:38):
everybody gets to see everybody gets to see our ass
So I feel like when a lot of people think
about racism they think about men marching in the streets
and sort of being mean the people of color, and
they kind of forget that it's so systemic, Right, It's
not just these singular instances or aggressions necessarily, it's things
(09:01):
that are really entranced deeply into the different systems that
are at work in America. Yeah, and I feel like
we throw this idea of quote broken systems around, but
really these systems aren't really broken. They're actually functioning the
exact way they were designed to function, which is lacking
black folks out while giving white folks a leg up. Yes,
these systems that were created are running, like you said,
(09:23):
are running exactly as they're supposed to. And that means
that they're marginalizing people perpetually. And that means that they're
oppressing people perpetually, and that means that these systems are
continually holding black people down. Yeah, and more than that,
they're holding us down while half the country is not
even willing to acknowledge they even exist. So it's like,
(09:45):
we're functioning in this fucked up system and half the
people are like, what funked up system? You know, we're
going to ever truly root out system racism. It has
to start with education of ourselves and all of us,
you know, across the country, looking in the mirror, to
think about how is this system created, what was created for?
How is the main thing? And through understanding that we
(10:06):
can work to unravel ourselves from it in many ways,
just to make racism um is just as American as
apple pie or any other or baseball or whatever the
case may be. And so envisioning America without racism is
not easy, but we have to, you know, be able
to envision that if we're gonna ever work towards that end.
We'll talk more about racism as a virus after this
(10:28):
quick break. At Solution Sessions, panelist Melissa Harris Perry described
how the disease of racism shows up in our bodies
and death consequences. That that movement, that shape shift, and
that thinking, that twist and that turning, that constant thinking
and having to strategize about every damn moment of your
(10:51):
life literally changes your bio chemistry. It changes the end
of your DNA. The fibroids are not the fried chicken
I wish they were. I mean, the fried chicken is
the is the clog arteries that is a different thing.
But the thing that's going on inside of our bodies
(11:14):
is the racism. That is the manifestation, is the tiki torches,
It is the manifestation of It ain't microaggression. These are
not microaggressions. These are just aggressions and having to bob
and weave around them. Twenty four seven is actually a
lot and it shows up in our schools. For centuries
(11:36):
in this country, people of color were denied the chance
to an education. That mutated in the school segregation, which
is mutated into our school system today that is still
failing black and brown kids, and it's resisted every movement
for change. Matthews from Louisiana. He founded Overcoming Racism, an
(11:56):
organization that works with schools, teachers, and young people to
tackle systemic oppression and racism the same way that teachers
report pink eye and check kids for life. Mat do
you think schools need to be the first line of
defense and inoculating against the virus of systemic racism because
you can't get well if you don't acknowledge your set. Oftentimes,
school environments promote a mids of meritocracy, this notion that
(12:19):
if you just work hard and if you just show
more grit, then um, that is the ingredient to overcome
any systemic barrier this in your way. But when you
tell a kid who is on the receiving end a
generational poverty, um, manufactured generational poverty through you know, redlining policy, UM,
you know, through employment discrimination, you name it. Um, the
(12:41):
kids on the receiving it of generational lack of access
to quality education, that all they need to do is
just work their way out of it. Um. That's a
really uncare message to provide a child without providing any
sort of historical or present day UM context of socio
political awareness around the obstacles that they're navigating and the
daily list experience. So, if racism is a superbug, it's
(13:03):
infected every aspect of our country, and its legacy is
still tainting the systems and machinery that we moved through today.
After World War Two, the country enacted the g I
Bill to help returning soldiers by homes to ease them
back in the civilian life through low cost mortgages and
low interest loans. Now, my grandfather he served in World
War Two, but when he came home, he was barred
from taking part of the same system that all his
(13:25):
white peers were benefiting from. So my grandfather's white peers,
they stunt out their civilian life being set up with
this nice nest egg in the form of their home,
and he doesn't. So when it comes time to send
their sons to college, who was an easier time. And
while Grandpa's white peers are able to pass that house,
he got that sweet dealon down to his adult son
to set him up with a comfortable life early on,
(13:47):
my grandpa he can't do the same with my dad
and that white son. Maybe he grows up to have
a kid of his own, and when that kid's old
enough for college, he could use that house as collateral
to pay for it. Meanwhile, by virtue of polo sees
that are racist by design that some historians actually say
are deliberately designed to accommodate Jim Crow, my grandfather, my father,
(14:07):
and me are all shot out of generations of opportunities
that are white peers always had access to. What people
refusing knowledge that because we have not directly addressed the
past inequities, right, they've just continued and morphed into inequities
exist today. You know, you can look across the country.
(14:28):
You know, redlining is not is no longer deepally enforceable,
but you know, there are banks that are settling losses
all over the nation for excluding people of color and
having spluctionary lending practices for people of colors who have
the credit score and who have the down payment, but
still are not being rented at homes in certain neighborhoods
because of fear that they're going to reduce property values.
(14:51):
One of the things that people can say it like, well, no,
this isn't a race issue in the crash, but when
you you know, really blows down the data that doesn't
bear out truth. And so you know, when we look
at the incarceration rate in this country, when we look
at the health care disperities, we look at education disperities,
gift three in the fact that we're more segregated now
than we were four years ago, when we look at
the spirities and housing lending, and then now the answer
(15:12):
the gentrification, which is pushing people coming out of the
inner city environments that they were relegated to for numbers
of years. When when we look across all of these
different perspectives, what we see is that these policies that
existed in the past have really been perfected. Let may
ask you something, and be honest, do you think there's
(15:37):
a black lawyer who's as good as your cousin? There
definitely is, but part of being good at your job
or your connections, and black people just don't have the
connections that my cousin has for sy stetmic reasons. Systemic
racism is first and foremost a system of advantage. And
(15:57):
when we talk about racism, one of the things that
we talk about most often is how systemic racism adversely
affects people of color, But we don't talk about the
other side of that coin, which that the system is
set up to, you know, provide advantages to white people.
And that's one of the truths that, for whatever reason,
it seems easier to acknowledge the pain and the oppression
(16:17):
and the violence that systemic racism levies on the bodies
of people of color. But for some reason, it's much
more challenging for us as a nation to address the
fact that the entire system was set up to benefit
um a small minority of people, and that minority people
that are set up to benefit has grown and expanded
over time. But you know, people didn't mistreat other people
(16:38):
just because they didn't like them or didn't understand them.
These systems are set up to create distinct advantages for
some um by you know, creating out and out group
to solidify power within collective in group. A lot of
white people may see the ways that black those are
set up to be treated as second class citizens in America,
but will probably be less willing to admit how that
same system that oppress us, we'll set up to give
(17:00):
them benefits and advantages that they've been benefiting from their
entire lives. Now, this is what Matthew calls the asset
value of whiteness. If you look at the wealth gap
in this country, there's a phenomenal piece called the asset
value of whiteness. You know, people say, well, the reason
why black families, it's not racism, right, it's it's you know,
there's just too many homes without black fathers in the home.
And if if black people would just invest in the
(17:22):
into marriage and black fathers will stay in the home,
then there will be no no gath. But if you
look at the gaps in wealth, black two parent households
have about half the net wealth as white civil parent households.
You say, well, no, it's not racism. Education. If people
in the black community would just double down and focus
on in the education, then you know that would close
these gaps. It's not just in the race of them,
(17:42):
is it's it's a cultural thing. Is they're just they
don't care about the education. If you look at the
data around wealth, you know, black families who have graduated
from college have significantly less at wealth than white families
who have some or no college. Well, it's because they're lazy.
They just don't want to they don't want to work,
you know. But then you look at the data and
you find out that black families of full time work
(18:03):
have left net wealth and white families of part time work.
But a boy born black and rich in America, well
there's a strong chance he won't when you account for
things like education and income level, disparities along racial lines
still persist. Now, if you want a visual representation of
how this plays out, check out the New York Times.
Peace in the show notes, there are all these messages
(18:24):
that we've created as a culture in a community to
help us to explain to our young people, you know,
how to stay safe in a culture in a system
that is inherently violent towards them. Right, we teach our
young people how to stay alive in encounters with the police,
rather than teaching law enforcement officers how not to kill
our young people, who are unarmed and bright and full
(18:46):
of potential. We teach our young people how to run
faster and jump higher over the hurdles where systemic racism
places in their way. But we don't necessarily always as
a collective group of adults of all races, think about
how when we create a level playing field for all kids.
Line up, everybody line up, We're about to race. Everybody
(19:07):
line up. Hey, we are, We are racing for our bail.
And so we do one activity in our workshop. It's
a level plane for the activity. Um, you know, we're realistic.
People have seen it, probably a lie, but realist of statements.
And you know, people have privileged up in the front
and people who have marginalized. Um, I think it will
end up in the back. And at the end of
the activity, we have folks run to this line of success.
(19:29):
And so obviously the metaphor, you know, people who are
in the front are kind of right there. People in
the back are really you know, busting their tail to
get there. And one of the things that I talked
about after that activity, once we kind of talked about
it in debriefed it is that, well, there's a few things.
Number One, for the people in the back, you know,
because of proximity, you're not even really running against the
(19:50):
people in the front, but people in the front have
already pretty much you know, it's been placed very close
to the finished line. And so because of that, right,
many times we're placing positions where we feel like we're
running against one another, and so we see things. We
see things like internalized depression playing out in our community
as we're all trying to run this collective race to
you know, reach this kind of artificial line of success.
(20:12):
But the other thing is is that sometimes these are
adults to the activity. You see people who are way
in the back, right and I tell them to run
to the line of success, and they just freeze where
they walk because you know, the activity in many ways,
it's kind of silly. And I always ask the participants,
what do we say about kids who see very critically
(20:36):
and very intelligently just how unfair the situation that they've
been placing is, and they choose not to play the
game right. They choose not to like run this rat
race um, in this race that they were intended to fail, um.
And we say all kind of negative things about those
young people. And then what do we say to the
young people who have been running this race and running
(20:57):
it perfectly the time that they're sixteen or seventh or
twenty or twenty one, they're exhausted right before they even
had a chance to really live their lives opportunity. We
don't want to recognize that we've been given a head start,
but the reality is we have now there's no excuse.
(21:18):
You need to be twice as good is a common
refrain a lot of us grew up with, and in
many ways that is true, and there are actually a
lot of studies that would that would suggestive that is true.
But it makes me think of the story of John Henry.
And you know, in the Sawyer John Henry. John Henry
is this African American man, you know, early nine dred.
(21:39):
He his entire identity, you know, is wrapped up in
this notion that he could lay down railroad tracks faster
than any other person. And so well, what does the
railroad company do? They create a machine, they create a
machine they can lay down railroad track faster than any man.
And so John Henry tells the railroad company there is
there is no way that this machine can beat me.
And so he races the machine and he wins, but
(22:02):
he dies at the end of the story. And in
many ways, I think that is the story of being
black in America. We constantly teach our young people to
race against this machine, to be just that much smarter,
to be just that much stronger, to run just that
(22:23):
much faster, to work just that much harder. Matthew says
that we ask black youth to be that much better, stronger,
and faster to compete in a race where they're set
up to fail, and we do so without thinking much
about the toilet takes on their mental health and overall
well being. But if we really cared about setting them
up for success, then they would instead of asking, you know,
(22:43):
people's color to run faster, to be better, they would,
you know, ask why are they running this race in
the first place. We'll be back with more solution sessions
after this break. What are the unwritten rules of being
black in America that you've internalized? M hmmm, well, a
few I can think of our don't be too aggressive,
especially for black women. Don't be too loud, what else?
(23:06):
What else? Bridget don't walk too quickly behind someone. Yeah,
don't make any sudden movements and dealing with the police.
Don't exist. Basically, just don't be a human body in public.
Just never leave your house. Never leave your home, right,
that's that's not okay, right, Yeah, we're we're kind of
joking about it, but it can really as just existing
(23:29):
or leaving the house can lead to extreme and serious
harm and even death. Right, just look at some of
the recent headlines. Don't play golf too slowly, don't stay
in an airbnb, don't try to get into your own home,
don't sit on your own stoop, don't barbe you in
the park, don't look at somebody wrong. Really, just don't
(23:50):
do anything right. Every Sunday after church, when I was
growing up, we drive to the Applebee's at the regentc
Square Mall in Richmond, Virginia dinner. Well. It was classics
also known as the White Mall and the nice part
of town, so you have to be parked. My parents
(24:10):
would lie on all the kids up against the car
our backs, literally touching the car door, no begging, no stealing,
no running, no jumping, don't ask me for anything, don't
talk too loud, don't touch anything, don't embarrass me in here.
All these rules, all these rules, I can almost say
them by heart, but I later found out these rules
don't apply to everybody. Dr Droid The group wrote a
(24:33):
book called post Traumatic Slave Syndrome. And she talks to
her talk about you know, like imagine a black kid
in a bank, like a little kid, maybe five or
some important place. And so she asked her audience, you know,
when she's speaking to the audience, she asked them, you know,
what are the rules? You know she has black people,
What are the rules? Did you tell your kid before
you want to bank? And it's kind of a funny
moment because there are some in some ways these universal rules. Right,
(24:53):
It's like, you know, don't say anything, stay close to me,
and um, don't touch anything, right, you know, don't embarrass
me in this bank. You know this is you know,
we care a lot about how people perceive us in public,
every result of people judging our entire race. When you know,
based upon the actions of Sun you just gave me
a flashback to my childhood. You just get that was
(25:14):
like a real life I would kind of forgot, like
without even knowing. Yeah, I and you said that, and
I had completely blacked this out of my of my
adult life. But that before we went into a store
or a mall or especially a bank, we gotta talking
to though was don't touch anything, don't ask for anything,
or embarrassed me to run around, you know. And I
(25:35):
think I did not even realize until this moment that
that where that comes from. So you imagine this little
black kid in this bank, right, it's obviously a metaphorical situation,
but they see a white kid in the bank, right,
And just in this example, the white kid is making noise,
(25:57):
the white kid is moving around, the white kid is
touching things subconsciously. That's doing something really distinct for this kid. First,
this white kid is breaking all of the rules, right,
Like these are the rules. You told me that these
are the rules, So I would imagine these rules apply
to everybody. This kid is breaking all the rules. And
I'm noticing that none of the adults in this setting
are reacting to that this kid is breaking the rules.
(26:20):
But it doesn't you know, for me, the world will
be ending right now, But for this kid, the world
is an ending right. As we internalized the rules, we
also realize that other kids have by a totally different set.
And while not having the freedom to misbehave in public
doesn't sound like the worst thing in the world, it's
one way to be internalized that white kids are inherently
born with freedoms that will never have from the moment
we're born. We're picking up he was about how we're
(26:42):
supposed to behave and internalizing them like a rule up.
And so we've gotten very good at training at a
very early age our young people to live out the
realities of what it means to be a man or
a woman, what it means to be heterosexual, what it
means to be a person of color or a white person,
um and then institutions do a very good job of
reinforcing that that. The thing that is most important in
(27:03):
this is that as we get older, we get rewards
for staying in the lane that we are assigning, and
you get punishments if you step outside of that right.
And so it's very hard once we've been socialized, to
question our socialization and to act outside of that socialization.
(27:23):
America has always had a love hate relationship with blackness.
America loves black music, America loves black fashion, and America
really loves it when black athletes win championships. But when
they get loud about systemic racism and oppression, well that's
where the love of their ends. As the crowd players stand,
you can see Kaepernick kneeling on the sideline, reed joining us.
(27:48):
He's receiving heavy days here. Kaepernick says he's willing to
make real change and plans on donating a million dollars
to charities that he's been working with to help end
racial inequality. I think the perfect example of this is
Colin Kaepernick, because if you look at the NFL, you know,
there's all manner of criminals that exist or people who
have committed crimes that exist in the NFL, right, people
(28:10):
who beat their wives, people who, um, you know, committed
sexual assault, people who have killed people. You know, you
name it, um there in the NFL. But Colin Kaepernick
and Air greed choosing to kneel and too, you know,
to make a statement againstplice supremacy that is not allowed
in America, that is fundamentally against the rules, right, and
so you no longer you know the punishment that has
(28:31):
to come with that is you no longer can exist
in this space. You can do all of these things
that we expect of you, but if you step outside
and you challenge this system, there are there are consequences
to that um and that's what keeps people in their lane.
And so it's really hard for us to break out
of our socialization because you know, we learned at an
early age were rewarded if we operate within our socialization,
(28:53):
and we're punished socially if we choose to operate outside
of that. We had a case where we had an
African American who is a fan of mine, great fan,
great guy. In fact, I want to find out what's
going on with him. You know what, I'll look at
my African American over here, look at him. Are you
the greatest? Do you know what I'm talking about? This
becomes especially tricky when you think about the ways that
(29:16):
our president signals to black folks that will be rewarded
for staying in our lanes. He does this by strategically
surrounding himself with the black spokespeople were also publicly braiding
black folks who challenge his racist policies and actions. He
does this while aligning himself with white racists. Luther and
I and everyone in this arena tonight are unified by
the same great American values. We're proud of our country.
(29:40):
We respect our flag. Wouldn't you love to see one
of these NFL owners when somebody disrespects our flag, to say,
get that son of off the field right now out
he's fired. He's fired. And in this way, the virus
finds itself moving along social pathways, from one tweet to another.
(30:03):
As Heidi points out, when an important figure goes out
and takes to social media. Donald Trump, of course is
a fan of Twitter, but there are other, you know
places you could do this, just in the media in
general or another platforms. When that happens and they express
bigoted or racist statements, there is a direct connection from
that and that hatred kind of you know, pulsing through
(30:25):
our society, largely through online networks and real violence. It
connects with certain people who maybe maybe they already have
an issue with certain people of color or certain religions.
Maybe they don't, but it's a trip wire into hate crimes.
And you know, there's a certain amount of giving license
to someone's bigoted ideas when a public figure takes them
(30:47):
up right. It's one thing if somebody nobody knows says
I hate all Muslims. It's another thing when a candidate
for the presidency says, I want them all banned from
the country because they're all terrorists. You we need to
look at recent events in Charlotte's Pill, Virginia to see
how an important figure like Donald Trump is playing into
the idea of staying in your lane and not speaking
(31:07):
out against evil when you see it. We've made the
threshold of racism so high that that if you're not
carrying a torch from Charlotteville, and the President actually came
out and raised the threshold even higher than that because
he says that there are some fine people out there
who are caring towards today. We've raised the threshold to
be racist so high that no one qualifies this racism.
(31:31):
This virus is making us all sick. So what do
we do. Well, First, we don't fall back on platitudes.
Here's Matthew at solution sessions in Atlanta. Contrary to popular belief,
love does not cure white supremacy. Gradualism does not cure
white supremacy, and color blindness does not dismantle white supremacy.
(31:57):
If we're gonna dismantle white supremacy, it will take intentional
policy interventions. But if we have not yet dismounted white
supremacy in this country, we certainly need to teach our
students how to navigate it when they're in schools. And
this is the same deputy who overpowered a female high
school student who have been told to leave class for
(32:19):
using her cell phone. Classmate, Neia Kennedy, was also arrested
after speaking out. I was crying like literally screaming, crying
like a baby. The disturbing video shot by another student
in algebra class is causing a nationwide uproar. It's it's disturbing,
(32:39):
to say the very least. It's time for America to
stop pretending that it dislikes racism and actually to begin
to dislike racism. And when I go around the country,
people say things like, well, but haven't these gotten better?
Aren't there some universal things that we can agree that
we've done in the past that we're bad. And my
answer to that is, if we agree that there are
(33:01):
some things we've done in the past that are bad,
we certainly have a funny way of showing it. Matthews
has representation like black kids seeing themselves in films like
Black Panther is one small way of helping set them
up with success. When these kids found out their whole
school was going to see the new Marvel film Black Panther,
they threw an impromptu dance party. The kids all go
(33:27):
to the Ron Clark Academy in Atlanta and the film
screening is part of a two week African immersion project
for Black History Month. I mean, I think that there
is no one thing that is a cure all for
systemic racism. The reason why I was, you know racism
is systemic is because it impacts people of color and
(33:48):
white people across. Um. You know all of these different
sectors you know, education, healthcare, media, you know, employment, you
name it. So there isn't one kind of cure. But
I will say that you know, representation, so me matters. UM.
You know, your ability to see yourself as successful, Your
ability to see yourself, UM as somebody who looks like
(34:10):
whatever it is you want to be when you grow
up as thing has a direct impact on you know,
the pursuits in the striving of our young people. While
Matthews says culture confunctionist medicine to build the self esteem
kids need to function in the world. He's clear that
we need more than movies to understand and break apart
systemic oppression, and that's where our focus should be as adults.
It builds racial pride um, which I think builds students
(34:34):
armor to navigate, you know, the oppressive systems that they
have to navigate, you know, throughout their lives. However, you know,
as adults, we still have to focus on just mantling
those depressive systems. In addition to public policy, another way
to combat the virus of systemic racism is white people
having a better understanding of it if you refuse to
properly diagnose the sickness for only ensuring that it lingers
(34:56):
and gets worse. Most reasonable people, if asked, would say
racism is bad, slavery was bad, genocide is bad. But
how many of them are actually living lives intentionally dedicated
to anti racism and antipression. And while they're busy patting
themselves in the back for taking the bold stance that
racism is bad, but they even know what living a
(35:17):
life dedicated to anti racism actually looks. Like and have
they acknowledged their racist notions working in their friends, their family,
and most importantly themselves. But people will come up to
me at social gatherings, at in public or whatever, and
they'll you know, strike a conversation and what they really
want to tell me at the end of the conversation
is I'm not racist. Right, That's kind of the Either
(35:39):
they will come out and say that, or the underlying
thing is they want me as the anti racism god.
So I don't know, give them a safety pin or
a stamp of approval or a sticker or high five
and say, like you got it. Um. For someone who says,
you know, I'm not racist, that doesn't really if that
is possible, that doesn't do anything to change the lives
experience with people of color living on a daily bas
(36:00):
system um, And it doesn't do anything to change the
fact of the system of racism provides advantages um to
the people who are oftentimes saying I'm not racist. And
so what I ask list are you intentionally anti racist?
And when you ask somebody that, it's kind of a
funny moment because you know, the look on people's faces
like really changes. Being racist means you're a bad right.
(36:23):
And so you know, you can call a white person
almost any name in the book, but if you call
a white person racist, that's like the worst thing you
can call them, right, Like, that is the easiest way
to get a white person the senses is to call
them racist. But we need folks to challenge themselves to
think critically about race and whiteness and the roles they
play in keeping a systematically sick machine turning. A vast
(36:44):
majority of Americans are racially illiterate. And you can grow
up in America, go through our entire education system from
pre K through twelve, through college through graduate school, and
never one time have to critically analyze whiteness. Never one
time has at we analyze how system and races and
coronet through our society. You can be extremely well educated,
(37:05):
you can have a great job, you can make good money,
you can be influential, and never in your life had
to face the reality of how system and racism creates
disparnt outcomes for people along racial lines. And that's the
rub of white supremacy. The racial lines that systemic racism
draw on set up a blueprint for other in society.
(37:27):
Political disenfranchise, met chronic health disparities, economic injustice, unfair media portrayals,
all that bullshit. We have to break the machine that
sets us up to be systematically less than. My kids
come from kings and queens, artists and revolutionaries, visionaries and activists,
and if we don't protect their hearts, their mind, and
(37:48):
their spirit, then our future is doomed. We realize that
it's not enough to just be aware of the illness.
You've got to treat it. And Matthew was right. Our
commun to me, it's full of people who are talented, intelligent,
and relentless in their pursuit of freedom and justice. And
their strengthen that because even though the world consistently tries
(38:09):
to tell us we're not good enough, we know we've
got the power to make real change. Let's fight the
forces that other us. Let's silence the voices that tell
us we are not worthy of love or respect. Let's
resist the systems that threatened to stunt our growth and
keep us from being our best selves. We are not
powerless against our oppressives. We have the solution. What's the solution,
(38:31):
bridget educate yourself and keep educating youth. What's the solution,
Bridget be intentionally antibasist. What's the solution, Bridget listen, don't speak?
What's the solution? Bridget, don't stay in your lane. Afropunk
(38:55):
Solution Sessions is a co production between Afro Punk and
How Stuff Works. Your hosts are Bridget Todd and Eve's
Jeff Cope Executive co producers are Julie Douglas, Jocelyn Cooper,
and Kuan latif Hill. Dylan Fagan is supervising producer and
Kathleen Quillian is audio engineer. Many many thanks to Casey
Pegram and Annie Reese for their production and editorial oversight,
(39:17):
and many thanks to our on the ground Atlanta Crewe,
Ben Boland, Corey Oliver, and Noel Brown. The Underside of
Power is performed by Algiers. To learn more about Matthew
Kinkaid's Overcoming Racism training and coaching organization, check out Overcome
Racism dot com. Connect with us on Facebook, Twitter, and
Instagram at afro Punk
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