August 10, 2021 • 44 mins
New discoveries lead our hosts more deeply back into the suicide theory.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Content warning. This podcast discusses violence, murder, suicide, civil unrest,
aggressive policing, racism, and lynching. If you or anyone you
know is considering suicide or self harm, or just need
to talk about problems, please call the National Suicide Prevention
Lifeline to seven three or text the crisis text line
(00:27):
at one. Previously and after the uprising, if this happens
to your child, wouldn't you want to get down to
the bottom of this and find out what really happened.
So I think you really wanted to love from it, mom,
but it was just kind of hard. Sometimes he did
(00:48):
hit horror. He he live horr. Phones that have a
qual Colm chip set usually give me an option to
bypass the pass code, but I never have luck with them,
and not to hope on it. I just wanna trying
to hang. You want to fight, You're gonna end know
with some type of skulls a boost somewhere. Man. Nothing.
I mean, this is speculation, but do you think Dane
(01:12):
would do something so far as like try to arrange
to get Marcel hurt? Would do it himself. We went
into his YouTube searches and then there's a search for
a very specific phrase which is how to tie the
hangman's noose with a blanket. What you're looking at is
(01:40):
the aftermath of the grand jury deciding not to indict
Officer Wilson. A young man found hanging from a tree
in October. His mom believes someone murdered her son, targeting him.
(02:02):
Don Ye became an activist in the wake of the
shooting death of Michael Brown by a white police officer.
That's why Melissa mckinne's wont St. Louis County police to
dig deeper to her son's death. He was not suicidal.
This is after the uprising, the death of Donye Dion Jones.
(02:29):
If I really start like that's for my son I
wanted to do, I'm at let it go because I
could start, I could move more. I can't start breathing,
you know. And my my children are told you if
our time. But we are here the whole phulicide thing.
You we're not. I'm not judging anybody, but we've always
(02:50):
been against shulicide. You know, because I am a friend
who committed suicide. We saw and talked about it, and
I knee all I ner angel and all the things.
You ain't gonna worry about me going out felway, he said,
And I don't really want people to look at him.
You know, it's being just men. But he said, you
know that's a week. That's a week is hell, leaving
(03:13):
people behind you. You give up and you heal yourself
and you're want to help. You know, That's how we
look that suicide. But if honestly, if that's what my
baby I wanted and somehow he wasn't getting peace, or
if I felt like he was depressed and he was
(03:35):
just really he just couldn't make it me, you know,
something huge has to I would understand that and I
would be like, you know what, that's what you wanted
to God, the lesson or you know what, spare his soul,
you know, but I would be able to move on.
I will start my leaving property. That's not it. I'm
(03:58):
a hunger. I'm I'm talking to are positive I anyone
in New archeginny of it? Now? We have to fight
for one. That was a clip from our very first
long phone chat with Melissa, back when she still used
the burner phone we sent her to talk to us.
(04:19):
She was insistent at the time that if she believed
Donia had died by suicide, she could begin to grieve
and eventually move on with her life. She would express
the sentiment to us many times over the next two years,
and we tried to always make good on our original
commitment to give her the benefit of the doubt and
accepting the possibility that Dana was the victim of a homicide.
(04:42):
And insofar as this podcast is concerned, we have spent
now eight episodes doing just that. But in this episode,
we would like to take a beat to look at suicide,
particularly as it pertains to Black Americans. If I could
just start by, just have when you state your name
and your profession, UM Sherry Davis Molock. It's like three words,
(05:06):
no hyphen. I'm in the Department of Psychological and Brain
Sciences at George Washington University. I'm an associate professor there.
Professor Molock has written extensively about suicide amongst young black people.
One of her papers that we read talked about stigmas
surrounding suicide. For many, many, many many years, no one
(05:27):
was really doing research on black suicides, and in part
because of the myth that black people don't complete suicide. Said,
the other problem is that up until the nineteen eighties,
most of the national data, the organizations that collect data nationally,
we're not delineated or categorized by race. So when people
say black people never did this, I'm like, we don't
(05:49):
actually know that, because at that time the data was
not really clearly delineated by race. It was usually whites
and non whites were grouped together. So what groups under
non whites with doing or not doing in terms of
suicide race, It was hard to make a difference with
that figure that out. And I think that unfortunately, because
(06:10):
there's a long history in this country of black people,
particularly black men, being lynched, that it's understandable that if
someone finds a loved one to be in the public
space and their hunt and they're hanging, that the immediate
conclusion that many families might draws that their their loved
one has been lynched, as opposed to that they may
(06:30):
have taken their their own life. And again sometimes it's
it's hard to clearly delineate whether or not as hanging
as an accident or lynching, And for medical examiners it's
hard sometimes to make those differentiations. Depends on the evidences there.
But having said that, if you are from a cultural
group that you believe does not complete suicide, or you
(06:52):
believe that it's something that white people do and black
people don't do. Then when you have these kinds of
unfortunate events, it's easier to not believe that it's a suicide.
It's also just hard and challenging because I think as
a parent, I know that no one wants to believe
that their child took his or her own life, because
as parents, we feel responsible for our children. We feel
(07:14):
like we should be able to help them, and that
we should should have known this was coming. Sometimes there
are no clear cut warning signs like what would be
some of those signs means, I think people have this
idea that you know, someone's going to take their own life,
that leading up to that, there's like a huge personality switch,
or you know, we hear things like, oh, they started
(07:36):
giving away their possessions, or you know, like we I
think some people do that, but some people have more
subtle changes in their behavior. Sometimes people have been struggling
with depressive symptoms for a while, which could be you know,
sad mood for several weeks on end, filling with logic,
not interested in interacting with friends, and family members in
(07:59):
the same way, that is to not engaging in activity,
said they used to find pleasurable and sometimes you and
I don't know how yet all this person was, but
the younger people, particularly teenager, you may seem more agitation
and more acting out. As far as Danyae is concerned,
nothing anyone ever said to us about his behavior sounded
(08:20):
like he was acting out or angry. But there was
definitely concerned amongst his family members about how in his
last two weeks of life he stopped wanting to go anywhere.
Everyone who lived in the house said that he was
spending a lot of time in the basement. The basement
was where he was sleeping on a couch and there
was a TV down there too. It's where Donya and
(08:41):
Derek watched that Boston Celtics game on Danya's last day alive,
So it's not like the basement was a dungeon or anything.
And everyone said that when they went down there they
would find him studying real estate materials. Was this self isolation?
A warning sign? Was Dania removing himself from family activity
because he was depressed. And if he was depressed, why
(09:04):
not tell somebody or at least leave a suicide note.
I think another method is that people you know, they're saying, well,
there's no note, but most people who complete suicide don't
leave a note. Suicides and younger people can also be
more impulsive, and that might be one reason why you
don't have as many notes there. So in younger people,
they're less like than have a really well thought out plan.
(09:26):
And for young men in particular, hanging and from firearms
are the two top methods of choices for completing suicide.
And those two methods firearms and hangings are very, very
highly lethal. You know, there's a common statement that you know,
black people don't hang themselves, or particularly black people don't
hang themselves from trees. So what are the rates of
(09:49):
taking one's life through hanging by black men? So normally
the data is not disaggregated to that degree. So if
they're when they do the data from the men Clexamus
at the corner's offices, they're gonna do cause of death
and for hanging is gonna be asphyxiation. That's the cause.
(10:09):
It's not gonna delineate down to what's the person hanging
from a tree, person's hanging in their room. I mean
there is some truth to the fact that most people
when they're when they take their lives, do it in
ways that are easily accessible. So, for example, it's easier
to hang oneself in one's house, for example, in one's
(10:30):
closet or even from a beam in the house, is
because it's easier to get to. Does that make sense
to youse what I'm saying, But it doesn't mean that
does not necessarily mean that people don't hang themselves from trees,
because sometimes they do. Is there anything around hanging that
we can say we kind of know regarding like whether
it's a first choice, what drives want to pick that
(10:54):
as the method? So the first choice for both men
and women young men and women inspire is because it's
more likely to to resolve in a death. The most
lethal method is virearms. The second most lethal method is hanging.
So what what when people choose one versus the other?
Has all to do with access. If a person doesn't
have a firearm easily accessible in their home, then they
(11:17):
might consider hanging because you can do it in your home,
you can do it anywhere. So basically it's what people
have sort of around them, right, it's accessible. Danyae did
not own a gun at the time of his death.
He had previously, but supposedly the gun was stolen back
when he lived with Deja. Professor Molak said that people
(11:39):
typically use what they have at their disposal that they
think will be the most fatal. In episode seven, Melissa
said that there was a rope in their garage and
the house also had extension cords and belts. If Dane
did want to die by suicide and had no access
to a gun and thus decided that hanging would be
the best method, it is still hard for us to
(12:00):
understand why he would choose to use a fitted bedsheet
for the ligature in prison, where inmates don't have access
to much A bed sheets an understandable choice, but when
a rope is readily available, and then there's the huge
elephant in the room. Danya knows his mother has spent
the last four years fighting for the dignity of black lives,
Why then, would he choose a method of suicide that
(12:23):
so closely resembles a racist lynching. People are behaving as
if people are are really being logical and that this
the the completion or the death is clearly thought through.
That's not always the case at all. So a young
person could also say, I know if I go to
this tree, you know this will end up in a fatality.
(12:46):
They might not be making the connection with lynching. You
see what I'm saying, because in the in that moment there,
we're behaving like they're thinking, logical, I won't do that
because this is where my parents are lynching. They're not
thinking that either. They're just thinking that which way do
I think I can do this where the likelihood that
I will die will be higher? And the stronger that
young person's intent is, And by intent I mean that
(13:09):
they really really want to die. I they really want
this to be a fatality, the more likely they are
to pick a more lethal method. Have you seen over
the course of your research anything in recent history that
you thought was I guess suspicious in so far is
the hanging of the apparent suicide by hanging of a
(13:31):
young black man. I think that black people in general
are suspicious of that because of the history of lynching
in this country. That's why I'm saying I definitely understand
why the parents would jump to that conclusion because of
the history of lynching in the United States. That's that's
a logical conclusion to reach. It's not far fetched. It's
just what I'm saying. It's not necessarily denial because given
(13:53):
the lench, the history of lynching in this country, is
it far fetched that their child could die from a
lynching and someone described to this is suicide. No, it's not.
And so I think that's one of the things is
frustrating as a clinician, as a mom, and as a researcher,
is that it were so easy to dismiss people's concerns
without considering Black people have a different context than white
(14:15):
people do. Right, White people don't have a long history
of lynching in the country. So so no, that's not
the conclusion they would jump to. But if you're from
a minority group where the legacy of lynching still lives
on even today in the twenty one century, is it
illogical or denial to jump to or to to wonder
about is this possibly a lynching? No, it's not. Um.
(14:38):
I kind of want to stick on this because this
is really the crux of our whole show, and uh,
you know about being taken seriously, and you know, in
each death being taken seriously and being properly investigated. So
I guess I would ask what would you expect from
local police and medical examiners? And there is an event
(15:01):
in which a black person has found hanging out doors,
and you know, can I say it's most likely be
a suicide than a lynching? I think statistically yes, because
statistically there are more suicides than there are lynchings as
far as I know. But do I what I want
the police department and the medical examiners to really carefully
(15:24):
view the scene of the the incident. Yes, because I
don't want to. I don't also don't want people to
assume that because the person is hanging, that the automatic
conclusion is it's a suicide, because in the black community
that may not be true. And I also don't think
it's fair to dismiss it as the families in denial
(15:45):
or they can't deal with the reality what's going on,
because lynching is a reality for black people, it's not.
It's not something to be dismissed. Is it difficult to
make these judgment calls depending on the method and what's
the scene looks like at the at the place of death,
point of death. Yes, And I'm acknowledging that it is difficult.
(16:05):
It's not it's not always clear cut, that's true. The
thing about someone who dies by suicide is that after
the fact, the details of their final behaviors can often
point in any direction we want them to, and anything
they did that seems highly irrational is easily hand waved away,
because suicide itself is not a rational act. Was Danye's
(16:29):
self sequestering in the basement a warning sign of intense
depression or was he just focused on his work trying
to understand the world of real estate? Would the black
son of a prominent Ferguson activist really hang himself in
his mother's backyard and a fashion that is reminiscent of
a lynching without even leaving a note? Or is depression
so all consuming that a state of tunnel vision prevents
(16:51):
these questions from even entering a suicidal person's mind. It's
very easy to decide first what you believe happened, and
then to tell your perspect dive around the facts in
order to paint a bulls eye around that conclusion. What
would you like to do together? What do you think
you connected over? We like going to Saint Charles, the St.
Charles Park That U was a getaway spot for us.
(17:12):
We just went to the park, you know, stand by
the river and talk. He was going drives. We liked
the food. We did that a lot of We had
a lot of food. This is Danye's best friend, Damon Moore,
the one who was shot four times allegedly by Marcel.
He helped us understand who Dane was by telling us
the kinds of things they used to do together. My
(17:34):
relationship with Javan was more, you know, it was close,
but we kicked it. We had more party times, you know,
went out, you know, had parties, had fun me and
now your relationship was. He influenced me in positive ways.
I learned from older brothers, myth tour, you know what
I'm saying. And he looked out for me, you know,
my right hand man. You know, we talked about more
(17:54):
express more ideas and thoughts and exploring life and ship gold.
So I really it was much closer. I was much
closer to you know. How would you like describe him?
I would describe protective for people. He cared about you protected,
you know, he went all out in my junior temper
sent from He was a kind of person once you
(18:14):
got to know a current person, but he was very
you know, quiet to himself, you know, very discreet with
his actions. You know, you have to be a very
close person for him to uh let you in. But
when he did express yourself, he was a very vocal individual.
You know. He always had like this positive but very
(18:35):
you know, mellow energy about him. Know, he had that
type of orla. It was always positive. This description of
Donya is generally mellow and quiet yet positive. Was pretty
much how everyone described him to us. But we figured
that Damon, as Danyae's best friend, might have deeper insight
into Danya's psychological and emotional health. I mean, was he
(18:56):
a little like bipolar, Like he could be really up
and really down? Was he you know depressed? You know,
not about polar uh you know, I mean people usually
go through ups and downs. I mean he had a
few things they did bother him that we talked about
and discussed. You know, he had a few things that
he was very edinant about and optimistic about as well.
(19:18):
You know, he really just depended on the day and
the occasion, what's going on and his life at that time.
He kept a lot of information in I mean I
got a lot from him, but sometimes I had the
prime information out of him, check up on him. He
could check up on me, you know, if he was
going through something, he could come by the house. We
could sit over probably you know, a couple of hen
seeing something to just top it up. We asked if
(19:40):
Damon noticed a change in Donyee, if he too perceived
done as paranoid and his last weeks alive. There's a
perception that he was paranoid in his final weeks. Do
you have any idea why? You know, he wasn't curt,
he wasn't certinal, He was stressed out. I mean, he
always naturally watched it is back. Oh, he was always vigilant,
(20:03):
always paid attention, cautious. That was just one of his traits.
But it felt like up to like in the last
few days or whatever, I know we had from talking
you from from what I perceived, you know, from me
talking to people, you know, he was he was stressed.
But I didn't get I didn't think that it was
(20:24):
deep as I mean, it ran across my mind. And
then after everything that transpired, I thought about the complation
we had everything like that, you know, I know it
was a lot on his mind with them and with
the you know, property and with his living situation, his
car he had told me about you know, he was
said about the scorepion and broke it down. So he
felt like it was a bottling his play a lot
(20:45):
on his shoulder at the time, and he was staying
He was telling me like he was staying strong, you know,
keeping his head of how hopes. But it was you know,
bothering him. I mean from I getting from it. You
know I heard a homicide part. Know I feel it,
But in my honest opinions at the re evaluating everything,
I think it was was on a suicidal part. Of
(21:10):
all the people we spoke with who were close with Dona,
Damon was the first one who said that he believed
it was likely that Donye died by suicide. Being Donya's
best friend of many years, Damon's opinion holds a lot
of weight. I know what conversation we've had, I know
how close we were. I know thread things that he
disclosed to me. You know that he was, you know,
(21:32):
possibly going through it and bothered him. You know when
I last conversation, was a lot of things on his mind.
That's why you know, so I mean it was very likely.
So are you kind of saying, like, in the moment,
you didn't think of him as depressed, but but like
looking back and kind of adding it all up, you
felt like maybe he was. In the moment, I'm not
(21:56):
gonna I didn't feel that. In the moment, I knew
that he was stressed. I knew that he was, you know,
it was bothering. I don't know, I don't know what
other words, you know, a less stronger word, just depressed.
I didn't think it was as serious. I didn't think
it was as far as you know, I'm feeling itself.
I know he cared about Miss Melissa a lot. You know,
(22:16):
he had a lot of he he loved his mother Derby.
I remember the first time I've seen him cry. She
had a gathering down in South City and when she
had up, gave her a speech and you know, exposed
you know, the severity, so uh condition, you know, he
was really upset. He walked outside, I walked out, he
went to his walked when he was, you know, shedding truth.
(22:37):
But he was a very strong person, so it's a
lot for him to actually cry, you know what I'm saying.
So that was also like he was concerned about his
mother's health. And stress, I know in his recent times,
because like he was burdened, you know, in his age,
and he feel like he was, you know, he wasn't
doing enough. After Damon told us that Dane felt like
he was a burden to his mother, which is something
(22:58):
we had not heard before him, and also told us
that his girlfriend Claire had spoken to Donia about depression
and he arranged for all of us to meet so
she could tell us what she knew. He did say
he was depressed because he felt like it wasn't going nowhere.
Do you remember when roughly that was becauld you play
some everything you wasn't close to everything we talked about
(23:21):
this outside of the crazy stuff, but everything that we
talked about, well he well, honestly we used to talk
about depression because I was depressed too. And then that's
when he came out and said that he was depressed
also because of everything that was going on and Bessie.
(23:41):
He just felt like at the age he wasn't where
he was supposed to be. But he's always been like
that ambitious and then it's like if you feel like
he's in a crush for too long, he had started
getting frustrated, but he won't express it that much, but
you can see it. I want to make sure I
have this crystal clear on the time, because Danye went
(24:03):
out to Colorado and the Idaho in and then he
didn't die until later. This was before he went to this, Okay,
so and then this is also the time when he
expresses to you, I'm also depressed. When he came back
after going to Idaho. It came home and then starts
(24:23):
staying with his mother and with Derek. Was he still
coming over a lot in that time? Yeah, he would
come to see Damon because Damiel will cut his hair,
but it wasn't. We didn't have any more conversations about
his depression. He just asked how I was feeling, without
any visible wounds, and with a chair turned over near
(24:45):
the tree. It was decided that Danye died by suicide.
His best friend Damon doesn't question that conclusion, but only
wonders what if what if he had gotten with Danya
that day. Listening to this show and thinking about the
facts of the case, We're sure that you listeners have
probably wondered, how would it be possible to hang someone
against their will without hurting them first? We've asked ourselves
(25:07):
that question over and over, and so we have imagined
a variety of scenarios when imagining how someone could get
the drop on Donya. The first thing people might wonder
is if Donya had been drugged. The toxicology report on
Donya only found metabolites of cannabis. His urine was positive
for eleven hydroxy t C and carboxy th C. Since
(25:29):
these metabolites can linger in the body for a long time,
we called the toxicology lab to ask if they thought
Donya was high when he died. What was the person's
name on this case? The person's name was Donye Jones.
The report says that there was some th HC metabolites
found within the urine sample, but it does not list
(25:50):
the units at the On the header page, it says
result confirmed present and then following it, there's like a
space for units, but it's blank. Hold on, let me,
let me, let me try to pull this case file
up here and see if I can and see what
you're talking about. So what are you trying to do? Though?
Like what are you what are you trying to figure out? Though?
Like the units? What does that mean? Though? Like how
(26:13):
I wanted to know. Is this something that was residual
in this person's system from like a week, two weeks,
three weeks prior to them dying, or were they high
when they died. So, if you're a smoker, depending upon
how have you of a smoker you are, you can
test positive weeks or even a couple of months later.
(26:35):
Certainly it depend up on how what level of a
smoker you are. So it's possible that this person could
have smoked two weeks ago. In the case, it sort
of matters if the person was using right then and
there or if it was like two weeks prior. Yeah,
I can't. I can't answer that. You need to subpoenas
somebody to find out some real information. Unless you're part
(26:55):
of law enforcement or something, you're probably not gonna be
able to get that. It's just that because it does
list the quantity found. So if it was done in
the urine, did I say it was done in urine? Yeah,
it's a specimen you one which they list as the urine.
That's why that's what I can tell you. Because the
urine wasn't quantitated, it was just confirmed present. Is there
(27:19):
a way to know if this person was high that
night or is there no way to know that? Okay, uh,
certainly there is. Yeah, Um, my opinion would be no.
Would there have been something else found besides these metabolites
Had they been high at the moment, they would have
been a show, they would have shown up. The toxicology
(27:42):
report does say they looked for alcohol and found none,
as well as common date rape drugs, which are benzo
diazepines called midazolem into mazapam and found none. They don't
seem to have looked for good old fashioned chloroform a
k A trichloro methane, but maybe that's because it's too
old school. Who knows. And then, of course there is
(28:03):
the YouTube search we mentioned at the end of episode eight.
When going through Danya's YouTube search history, we found a
search for how to tie a hangman's noose with a
blanket that occurred on October sixte Dania's last full day alive.
The video at links to was posted by a user
named I T. S Tactical and it's just shy of
(28:23):
five minutes long. The video demonstrates how to tie a
hangman's noose, but with a rope, not a blanket. Danyae's
YouTube history shows that the video was watched all the
way through. It would be easy to see this search
and try to close the book on the idea that
Danya was murdered, and we admit at first we began
to lean that way, but before we brought it to
(28:46):
Melissa's attention, we wanted to be damn sure of what
we've found. Right from the get go, we noted that
Danya wasn't hanged with a hangman's noose. We thought, if
Danye needed to watch a video on how to tie
inn not to hang himself, the knot that was ultimately
chosen wasn't this one and the only other searches he
(29:07):
ever did on not tying or for how to tie ties,
you know, like a tie you wear with a suit.
So if don Ye did watch this video, he didn't
learn anything from it that he would end up putting
to use. So we scrutinized the search history data and
found that it contained something that we thought was very bizarre.
(29:27):
Just buckle in and stay with us here. The hangman's
new search was in his list of searches, meaning there
were twenty six other searches that he made after the
new search, and those searches were for a lot of
random things you wouldn't imagine would be on someone's mind
if they were trying to learn how to hang themselves.
For instance, there's a search for gap funding for real
(29:49):
estate investors, and one for how to be your own
financial advisor. There's a search for when your boss makes
you work mandatory Saturdays, and even one for how to
use hp off us Jet sixty hundred. We couldn't help
but get stuck on the question why would someone planning
to take their own life in a matter of hours
be looking up videos on investments? It was FERI con
(30:12):
what life is like in Boston, how to use an
office jet printer. After scrutinizing these searches, another oddity came
to light. For the twenty six searches that come after
the Hangman's New search, none of the corresponding videos were
actually watched. In fact, every search done after the Hangman's
New search actually corresponded to a video that Dania watched
(30:34):
in the days and weeks before the sixteen. So, for instance,
there's a search for Kendrick Lamar Heart Part four, which
Dania actually watched on the seventh, So eleven days prior.
There's a search for what info does a private lender need,
which was actually something he watched on October twelve, so
four days prior that weird office jet printer search. He
(30:57):
watched that video on September twenty nine, so more than
two weeks prior. And again, none of these twenty six
searches are for videos that Donya would actually watch on
the sixteenth, after the Hangman's New search. Why would Danya
do this, make these twenty searches after the Hangman's New
search but not watch any of the videos. What does
(31:17):
it all mean? It looks as though perhaps there was
intent to push the search for the Hangman's News video
down the search queue. It's not pushed so far as
to be gone entirely, but it's pushed far enough down
the stack so it isn't immediately visible when one taps
the search bar to begin a new search. This could
(31:38):
easily be accomplished by randomly tapping old searches in the
search history over and over again without actually watching any
of the content that they linked to, until the desired
search is pushed to the bottom of the pile. Why
would he push his Hangman's New search far down the queue.
If he was trying to hide it from others, he
could have used this same technique and pushed it all
(32:01):
the way out so it could never be found. He
also could open his Google history and delete the search
and the viewing of the video entirely. And we have
to ask who would he have been hiding it from.
No one in his household had his phone pass code.
If he planned on dying by suicide that night, only
hours later, the intent would readily be clear by morning.
(32:24):
The placement of the hangman's new search beneath twenty six
other searches that he had originally made in the days
and weeks prior looked to us like a pattern of
activity aimed at concealment. Yes, it could have been done
who aimed to conceal the fact that he made this search,
But it would be odd that he wouldn't conceal it
(32:45):
entirely or deleted if he was, in fact so afraid
of somebody finding it. Then there is the timing of
the search. It happened at seven fifty three pm, and
the corresponding video was watched at seven fifty four pm.
This is exactly when Donye would have been on the
couch in the basement watching the Boston Celtics season opener
(33:10):
next to his stepfather Derek. What time I got downstairs,
he already had the game. More so I sat down
and when we're born back and forth, you know, shooting
ship like my guys do you know almost lakers Man,
so you know, if it was almost in an opposition
of each other. So that's what made the game so
good because he's a self expanding on my lakers Man.
When I came down there, you know, he has his paperworkout.
(33:33):
You know, he's on his research, but he's also watching
the game at the same time, so kind of like
you know, he's kind of back and forth with it.
And then once we really got into the game, you
know we Kara just seven in the Wattern game. Which
did you get up at any point, like from the
time that you went down there until that you left
her work? Did you do you think he probably left
the basement once or twice or did you stay down
there the whole time? Yeah, I can't really recalled. I
don't think I left the basement at all when I
(33:55):
went down there, because we have cold drinks and refrigerators,
so I have to go upstairs and we're having I think,
you know what about like, what would you have done
during halftime? Do you think get up to stretch your
legs or probably just stayed down there and hung out
with him or what. I never went upstairs. I really
don't think I want up stairs at all during the time.
Did you do you recall him watching anything on the phone,
Like would he have been watching the game and then
(34:17):
like watching a video on his phone? You recall anything
like that if you did. I really can't recall if
he did or not. But he's right down he said
he's doing he was doing some light. How would you
describe the movie? There's just routine, is you know, it
was just a regular knight plus at home. Let me
talk about board and hey, we're coming back when we
had a bag and we had an injury or whatever,
you'll do basketball because the sports talk I was giving
(34:38):
him the visions about the legs. I say, anybody you
know be you know, billy whatever, They ain't gonna be
the leggers, you know, and uh, you know, we was
asking about that or whatever, and then uh, I said,
I'm doin't gonna go to work, you know. Um, I
see how the more like you at He was like,
all right, all right, up right, you know, I was
getting out of work or whatever, and I went on
(34:58):
upstairs and kiss my wife's flag, going to work out
of it. The order of the search history, plus the
timing of the search made us again consider maybe there
was more here than meets the eye. We told all
of this to Melissa. And also the time for it
was at seven fifty PM, which is when he was
(35:23):
watching basketball with Derek, so that could mean a lot
of things. Someone could say, you know, perhaps he did
it when Derek got up to go to the bathroom,
or you know, it was halftime and Derek went to
get a snack and Danye quickly did that. So it's
not proof, but it's interesting that the timing is is
(35:48):
pretty odd. It would seem sort of strange to just
jump right out of nowhere in the middle of this
basketball game to quickly do that and then go right
back to living life. You know. There was one other
detail that we found. The Hangman's New search wasn't made
from an Android. It was made from an Apple device,
(36:09):
so it wasn't made from the Android. Now I do
know that Danya also had an iPhone well, you know what,
I know, he get um Android's home Journette Kyle, who
I talked to dear about. I mean, his mood that
night was nothing like of a mood where we would
(36:33):
be concerned about anything. You know. It was exciting that
I could still laughing about this game. But that's just
don't fund right. According to the police report, Detective Matthew King,
who was working alongside Detective Andrewer the morning Danye died,
checked both of Danyae's phones. One he said was pass
(36:54):
code protected so he couldn't access it. The other, he wrote,
was either broken or it had a dead battery. He
had just lost his stores or so he would come
and ask me give you mine, and sometimes I'll be like,
thank Danye, m you with a mind. I really don't.
I don't remember if he used it that day. I
(37:18):
really don't think he did. I know I had it
that night because I was in the Spear bedroom, so
I had it at that time when you know, everything happened,
it was upstairs. Melissa couldn't remember the last time Donna
borrowed her iPhone charger, but she believes the evening that
(37:39):
he died, she had it with her as she watched
TV upstairs. Since Detective King found an iPhone with no
charge the next morning, there was a chance at least
that Danye's iPhone was not charged on the evening of
the sixteen. We just can't say for certain. Now. The
most interesting thing, and this is what can earns me
(38:00):
the most, is that I went back in and I
was trying to look at his history again and go
through it, and some of that history seems to have
been deleted since we looked at it the first time.
There is stuff, yeah, there is stuff that we saw
for October seventeen, the viewing of about six music videos
(38:20):
on YouTube, and but when I went back to look
at those, they're gone. When we first went through Donye's
YouTube history and saw that six music videos were watched
on October sevente we assumed they were watched by don
Ya in the early morning hours before he died, so
after midnight but before four am. When we revisited his
(38:43):
data a few weeks later, any trace of activity for
the seventeen was gone. We documented it the first time.
We took photographs of it, so we have photographs of
it being there. And I can't say this for certain,
but it makes me wonder, is someone still logged into
(39:03):
his account somewhere perhaps oh wow, yeah, oh yeah. So
and there's other weird things. There's a lot of little
weird things that like, quite frankly, I'm not an expert,
and I can't explain if someone has his password and
is still logging into it, or perhaps you know, there's
(39:26):
maybe a device like someone else's phone that he logged
into a long time ago, and then it's like one
of those things where the password saved and they can
just switch back in. I don't know, I really don't.
But my feeling is just that Google is this huge company.
YouTube is a huge company there, you know, billion dollar industry,
(39:49):
and they make their money tracking data, you know, selling
data and keeping track of everything. So I don't think
things just go missing by themselves. And again I don't
want to like over sell this, but there's a possibility
just and maybe it's remote, maybe it's slim, but that
(40:10):
if we can get to subpoena Google, we can see
exactly who is logged in making those searches, possibly deleting history,
possibly reorganizing history. Because if somebody is doing that, I
know I got chills too when we were thinking about this.
(40:32):
We remembered a piece of a conversation we once had
with Derek and Melissa. Let us say it. I had
saw him. He was into his tablet thing looking um
for he was looking at low on YouTube. That's what
I think. It was a tablet. Is there a table
We don't wait, a taboot one of those downstairs at
(40:53):
the other house. It was a tablet. That was you know,
because I do what I'm saying, working on a tablet,
and it could be in a borrow tablet. Some some
fans some marcularity because I don't are. YouTube search history
(41:13):
is not device specific, it's account specific. So if you
log into your Google account on a tablet and make
searches and then go to your YouTube history on your phone,
the searches will still be visible. If it's true that
Donya borrowed a tablet from somebody and had logged into
YouTube on it and then return the tablet before logging out,
(41:34):
whoever had that tablet could make searches and delete activity,
and we would find that going through his history on
his phone. It could be a door that blows wide
open and is great and helps answer all the questions.
It could also be something that gets an answer and
it's not what we expected, and we go, oh, okay,
(41:56):
and it's not you know, so I just want to
make sure, like I don't want to get your whole
way up, but I think we need to pursue it.
And the problem is the only ones who can pursue
it are people who have legal subpoena power, right, okay,
all right. It's hard not to see this YouTube search
(42:19):
as a piece of critical evidence, a digital fingerprint belonging
to either Danja himself or to a conspirator in his murder.
But as it stands, we have no way of pinning
down exactly which device from which WiFi router was used
to make the search. We also have no way of
opening Danya's iPhone. We needed someone with subpoena power. Plus,
(42:42):
there were other questions. If Danya was actually murdered, the
planning and execution of the act would seem to require
the murderers have a lot of not only skill and
ability to hide their deeds, but also inside knowledge about
Danya's life and the layout of his home. How would
all of this be possible? Is it possible? Or does
(43:04):
he even considering Danye's death a homicide at this point
stretched the imagination farther than it rationally wants to bend.
That's next time on After the Uprising. After the Uprising
is directed, produced, investigated, written and reported by myself, Raino Vischelski,
and John Duffy. John Duffy was also the editor. Dave
(43:27):
Cassidy was producer, Sound engineering, design and mixed by Josh Condon.
Executive producers were Matt McDonough and Tina x Eros for
Now This, Brett Kushner for Group nine Media, and Jeff
Boove was executive in charge of production. Jonathan Hartwig and
Bradley Rayford were consulting producers. Eliza Craig was assistant producer
and did additional reporting. Mallory Keenoy was a writer's assistant.
Kristen McVicker and Taya Wilson were production assistants, and Hailey
(43:50):
Klezmer was a post production assistant. Fact checking by Alison Humes.
Theme song and other music by Zachary Walter, legal by
Keith Sclar and Peter Yazy. Special thanks to Ann fraud Oh,
Danny Gonzalez, Barbara Copple, Alex Lester, Bethan Macaluso, Emily Maronoff,
Ruth Vaka, and the Reporter's Committee for Freedom of the Press.
After the Uprising is a production of Double asterisk I
(44:10):
Heart Media and now this in association with True Stories.
You can find us on Twitter and Facebook. If you
have useful information about the death of Danye Jones or
anything we've covered, please leave a message on our tip
line at three four seven six seven four seven four
zero one.
Content warning. This podcast discusses violence, murder, suicide, civil unrest,
aggressive policing, racism, and lynching. If you or anyone you
know is considering suicide or self harm, or just need
to talk about problems, please call the National Suicide Prevention
Lifeline to seven three or text the crisis text line
(00:27):
at one. Previously and after the uprising, if this happens
to your child, wouldn't you want to get down to
the bottom of this and find out what really happened.
So I think you really wanted to love from it, mom,
but it was just kind of hard. Sometimes he did
(00:48):
hit horror. He he live horr. Phones that have a
qual Colm chip set usually give me an option to
bypass the pass code, but I never have luck with them,
and not to hope on it. I just wanna trying
to hang. You want to fight, You're gonna end know
with some type of skulls a boost somewhere. Man. Nothing.
I mean, this is speculation, but do you think Dane
(01:12):
would do something so far as like try to arrange
to get Marcel hurt? Would do it himself. We went
into his YouTube searches and then there's a search for
a very specific phrase which is how to tie the
hangman's noose with a blanket. What you're looking at is
(01:40):
the aftermath of the grand jury deciding not to indict
Officer Wilson. A young man found hanging from a tree
in October. His mom believes someone murdered her son, targeting him.
(02:02):
Don Ye became an activist in the wake of the
shooting death of Michael Brown by a white police officer.
That's why Melissa mckinne's wont St. Louis County police to
dig deeper to her son's death. He was not suicidal.
This is after the uprising, the death of Donye Dion Jones.
(02:29):
If I really start like that's for my son I
wanted to do, I'm at let it go because I
could start, I could move more. I can't start breathing,
you know. And my my children are told you if
our time. But we are here the whole phulicide thing.
You we're not. I'm not judging anybody, but we've always
(02:50):
been against shulicide. You know, because I am a friend
who committed suicide. We saw and talked about it, and
I knee all I ner angel and all the things.
You ain't gonna worry about me going out felway, he said,
And I don't really want people to look at him.
You know, it's being just men. But he said, you
know that's a week. That's a week is hell, leaving
(03:13):
people behind you. You give up and you heal yourself
and you're want to help. You know, That's how we
look that suicide. But if honestly, if that's what my
baby I wanted and somehow he wasn't getting peace, or
if I felt like he was depressed and he was
(03:35):
just really he just couldn't make it me, you know,
something huge has to I would understand that and I
would be like, you know what, that's what you wanted
to God, the lesson or you know what, spare his soul,
you know, but I would be able to move on.
I will start my leaving property. That's not it. I'm
(03:58):
a hunger. I'm I'm talking to are positive I anyone
in New archeginny of it? Now? We have to fight
for one. That was a clip from our very first
long phone chat with Melissa, back when she still used
the burner phone we sent her to talk to us.
(04:19):
She was insistent at the time that if she believed
Donia had died by suicide, she could begin to grieve
and eventually move on with her life. She would express
the sentiment to us many times over the next two years,
and we tried to always make good on our original
commitment to give her the benefit of the doubt and
accepting the possibility that Dana was the victim of a homicide.
(04:42):
And insofar as this podcast is concerned, we have spent
now eight episodes doing just that. But in this episode,
we would like to take a beat to look at suicide,
particularly as it pertains to Black Americans. If I could
just start by, just have when you state your name
and your profession, UM Sherry Davis Molock. It's like three words,
(05:06):
no hyphen. I'm in the Department of Psychological and Brain
Sciences at George Washington University. I'm an associate professor there.
Professor Molock has written extensively about suicide amongst young black people.
One of her papers that we read talked about stigmas
surrounding suicide. For many, many, many many years, no one
(05:27):
was really doing research on black suicides, and in part
because of the myth that black people don't complete suicide. Said,
the other problem is that up until the nineteen eighties,
most of the national data, the organizations that collect data nationally,
we're not delineated or categorized by race. So when people
say black people never did this, I'm like, we don't
(05:49):
actually know that, because at that time the data was
not really clearly delineated by race. It was usually whites
and non whites were grouped together. So what groups under
non whites with doing or not doing in terms of
suicide race, It was hard to make a difference with
that figure that out. And I think that unfortunately, because
(06:10):
there's a long history in this country of black people,
particularly black men, being lynched, that it's understandable that if
someone finds a loved one to be in the public
space and their hunt and they're hanging, that the immediate
conclusion that many families might draws that their their loved
one has been lynched, as opposed to that they may
(06:30):
have taken their their own life. And again sometimes it's
it's hard to clearly delineate whether or not as hanging
as an accident or lynching, And for medical examiners it's
hard sometimes to make those differentiations. Depends on the evidences there.
But having said that, if you are from a cultural
group that you believe does not complete suicide, or you
(06:52):
believe that it's something that white people do and black
people don't do. Then when you have these kinds of
unfortunate events, it's easier to not believe that it's a suicide.
It's also just hard and challenging because I think as
a parent, I know that no one wants to believe
that their child took his or her own life, because
as parents, we feel responsible for our children. We feel
(07:14):
like we should be able to help them, and that
we should should have known this was coming. Sometimes there
are no clear cut warning signs like what would be
some of those signs means, I think people have this
idea that you know, someone's going to take their own life,
that leading up to that, there's like a huge personality switch,
or you know, we hear things like, oh, they started
(07:36):
giving away their possessions, or you know, like we I
think some people do that, but some people have more
subtle changes in their behavior. Sometimes people have been struggling
with depressive symptoms for a while, which could be you know,
sad mood for several weeks on end, filling with logic,
not interested in interacting with friends, and family members in
(07:59):
the same way, that is to not engaging in activity,
said they used to find pleasurable and sometimes you and
I don't know how yet all this person was, but
the younger people, particularly teenager, you may seem more agitation
and more acting out. As far as Danyae is concerned,
nothing anyone ever said to us about his behavior sounded
(08:20):
like he was acting out or angry. But there was
definitely concerned amongst his family members about how in his
last two weeks of life he stopped wanting to go anywhere.
Everyone who lived in the house said that he was
spending a lot of time in the basement. The basement
was where he was sleeping on a couch and there
was a TV down there too. It's where Donya and
(08:41):
Derek watched that Boston Celtics game on Danya's last day alive,
So it's not like the basement was a dungeon or anything.
And everyone said that when they went down there they
would find him studying real estate materials. Was this self isolation?
A warning sign? Was Dania removing himself from family activity
because he was depressed. And if he was depressed, why
(09:04):
not tell somebody or at least leave a suicide note.
I think another method is that people you know, they're saying, well,
there's no note, but most people who complete suicide don't
leave a note. Suicides and younger people can also be
more impulsive, and that might be one reason why you
don't have as many notes there. So in younger people,
they're less like than have a really well thought out plan.
(09:26):
And for young men in particular, hanging and from firearms
are the two top methods of choices for completing suicide.
And those two methods firearms and hangings are very, very
highly lethal. You know, there's a common statement that you know,
black people don't hang themselves, or particularly black people don't
hang themselves from trees. So what are the rates of
(09:49):
taking one's life through hanging by black men? So normally
the data is not disaggregated to that degree. So if
they're when they do the data from the men Clexamus
at the corner's offices, they're gonna do cause of death
and for hanging is gonna be asphyxiation. That's the cause.
(10:09):
It's not gonna delineate down to what's the person hanging
from a tree, person's hanging in their room. I mean
there is some truth to the fact that most people
when they're when they take their lives, do it in
ways that are easily accessible. So, for example, it's easier
to hang oneself in one's house, for example, in one's
(10:30):
closet or even from a beam in the house, is
because it's easier to get to. Does that make sense
to youse what I'm saying, But it doesn't mean that
does not necessarily mean that people don't hang themselves from trees,
because sometimes they do. Is there anything around hanging that
we can say we kind of know regarding like whether
it's a first choice, what drives want to pick that
(10:54):
as the method? So the first choice for both men
and women young men and women inspire is because it's
more likely to to resolve in a death. The most
lethal method is virearms. The second most lethal method is hanging.
So what what when people choose one versus the other?
Has all to do with access. If a person doesn't
have a firearm easily accessible in their home, then they
(11:17):
might consider hanging because you can do it in your home,
you can do it anywhere. So basically it's what people
have sort of around them, right, it's accessible. Danyae did
not own a gun at the time of his death.
He had previously, but supposedly the gun was stolen back
when he lived with Deja. Professor Molak said that people
(11:39):
typically use what they have at their disposal that they
think will be the most fatal. In episode seven, Melissa
said that there was a rope in their garage and
the house also had extension cords and belts. If Dane
did want to die by suicide and had no access
to a gun and thus decided that hanging would be
the best method, it is still hard for us to
(12:00):
understand why he would choose to use a fitted bedsheet
for the ligature in prison, where inmates don't have access
to much A bed sheets an understandable choice, but when
a rope is readily available, and then there's the huge
elephant in the room. Danya knows his mother has spent
the last four years fighting for the dignity of black lives,
Why then, would he choose a method of suicide that
(12:23):
so closely resembles a racist lynching. People are behaving as
if people are are really being logical and that this
the the completion or the death is clearly thought through.
That's not always the case at all. So a young
person could also say, I know if I go to
this tree, you know this will end up in a fatality.
(12:46):
They might not be making the connection with lynching. You
see what I'm saying, because in the in that moment there,
we're behaving like they're thinking, logical, I won't do that
because this is where my parents are lynching. They're not
thinking that either. They're just thinking that which way do
I think I can do this where the likelihood that
I will die will be higher? And the stronger that
young person's intent is, And by intent I mean that
(13:09):
they really really want to die. I they really want
this to be a fatality, the more likely they are
to pick a more lethal method. Have you seen over
the course of your research anything in recent history that
you thought was I guess suspicious in so far is
the hanging of the apparent suicide by hanging of a
(13:31):
young black man. I think that black people in general
are suspicious of that because of the history of lynching
in this country. That's why I'm saying I definitely understand
why the parents would jump to that conclusion because of
the history of lynching in the United States. That's that's
a logical conclusion to reach. It's not far fetched. It's
just what I'm saying. It's not necessarily denial because given
(13:53):
the lench, the history of lynching in this country, is
it far fetched that their child could die from a
lynching and someone described to this is suicide. No, it's not.
And so I think that's one of the things is
frustrating as a clinician, as a mom, and as a researcher,
is that it were so easy to dismiss people's concerns
without considering Black people have a different context than white
(14:15):
people do. Right, White people don't have a long history
of lynching in the country. So so no, that's not
the conclusion they would jump to. But if you're from
a minority group where the legacy of lynching still lives
on even today in the twenty one century, is it
illogical or denial to jump to or to to wonder
about is this possibly a lynching? No, it's not. Um.
(14:38):
I kind of want to stick on this because this
is really the crux of our whole show, and uh,
you know about being taken seriously, and you know, in
each death being taken seriously and being properly investigated. So
I guess I would ask what would you expect from
local police and medical examiners? And there is an event
(15:01):
in which a black person has found hanging out doors,
and you know, can I say it's most likely be
a suicide than a lynching? I think statistically yes, because
statistically there are more suicides than there are lynchings as
far as I know. But do I what I want
the police department and the medical examiners to really carefully
(15:24):
view the scene of the the incident. Yes, because I
don't want to. I don't also don't want people to
assume that because the person is hanging, that the automatic
conclusion is it's a suicide, because in the black community
that may not be true. And I also don't think
it's fair to dismiss it as the families in denial
(15:45):
or they can't deal with the reality what's going on,
because lynching is a reality for black people, it's not.
It's not something to be dismissed. Is it difficult to
make these judgment calls depending on the method and what's
the scene looks like at the at the place of death,
point of death. Yes, And I'm acknowledging that it is difficult.
(16:05):
It's not it's not always clear cut, that's true. The
thing about someone who dies by suicide is that after
the fact, the details of their final behaviors can often
point in any direction we want them to, and anything
they did that seems highly irrational is easily hand waved away,
because suicide itself is not a rational act. Was Danye's
(16:29):
self sequestering in the basement a warning sign of intense
depression or was he just focused on his work trying
to understand the world of real estate? Would the black
son of a prominent Ferguson activist really hang himself in
his mother's backyard and a fashion that is reminiscent of
a lynching without even leaving a note? Or is depression
so all consuming that a state of tunnel vision prevents
(16:51):
these questions from even entering a suicidal person's mind. It's
very easy to decide first what you believe happened, and
then to tell your perspect dive around the facts in
order to paint a bulls eye around that conclusion. What
would you like to do together? What do you think
you connected over? We like going to Saint Charles, the St.
Charles Park That U was a getaway spot for us.
(17:12):
We just went to the park, you know, stand by
the river and talk. He was going drives. We liked
the food. We did that a lot of We had
a lot of food. This is Danye's best friend, Damon Moore,
the one who was shot four times allegedly by Marcel.
He helped us understand who Dane was by telling us
the kinds of things they used to do together. My
(17:34):
relationship with Javan was more, you know, it was close,
but we kicked it. We had more party times, you know,
went out, you know, had parties, had fun me and
now your relationship was. He influenced me in positive ways.
I learned from older brothers, myth tour, you know what
I'm saying. And he looked out for me, you know,
my right hand man. You know, we talked about more
(17:54):
express more ideas and thoughts and exploring life and ship gold.
So I really it was much closer. I was much
closer to you know. How would you like describe him?
I would describe protective for people. He cared about you protected,
you know, he went all out in my junior temper
sent from He was a kind of person once you
(18:14):
got to know a current person, but he was very
you know, quiet to himself, you know, very discreet with
his actions. You know, you have to be a very
close person for him to uh let you in. But
when he did express yourself, he was a very vocal individual.
You know. He always had like this positive but very
(18:35):
you know, mellow energy about him. Know, he had that
type of orla. It was always positive. This description of
Donya is generally mellow and quiet yet positive. Was pretty
much how everyone described him to us. But we figured
that Damon, as Danyae's best friend, might have deeper insight
into Danya's psychological and emotional health. I mean, was he
(18:56):
a little like bipolar, Like he could be really up
and really down? Was he you know depressed? You know,
not about polar uh you know, I mean people usually
go through ups and downs. I mean he had a
few things they did bother him that we talked about
and discussed. You know, he had a few things that
he was very edinant about and optimistic about as well.
(19:18):
You know, he really just depended on the day and
the occasion, what's going on and his life at that time.
He kept a lot of information in I mean I
got a lot from him, but sometimes I had the
prime information out of him, check up on him. He
could check up on me, you know, if he was
going through something, he could come by the house. We
could sit over probably you know, a couple of hen
seeing something to just top it up. We asked if
(19:40):
Damon noticed a change in Donyee, if he too perceived
done as paranoid and his last weeks alive. There's a
perception that he was paranoid in his final weeks. Do
you have any idea why? You know, he wasn't curt,
he wasn't certinal, He was stressed out. I mean, he
always naturally watched it is back. Oh, he was always vigilant,
(20:03):
always paid attention, cautious. That was just one of his traits.
But it felt like up to like in the last
few days or whatever, I know we had from talking
you from from what I perceived, you know, from me
talking to people, you know, he was he was stressed.
But I didn't get I didn't think that it was
(20:24):
deep as I mean, it ran across my mind. And
then after everything that transpired, I thought about the complation
we had everything like that, you know, I know it
was a lot on his mind with them and with
the you know, property and with his living situation, his
car he had told me about you know, he was
said about the scorepion and broke it down. So he
felt like it was a bottling his play a lot
(20:45):
on his shoulder at the time, and he was staying
He was telling me like he was staying strong, you know,
keeping his head of how hopes. But it was you know,
bothering him. I mean from I getting from it. You
know I heard a homicide part. Know I feel it,
But in my honest opinions at the re evaluating everything,
I think it was was on a suicidal part. Of
(21:10):
all the people we spoke with who were close with Dona,
Damon was the first one who said that he believed
it was likely that Donye died by suicide. Being Donya's
best friend of many years, Damon's opinion holds a lot
of weight. I know what conversation we've had, I know
how close we were. I know thread things that he
disclosed to me. You know that he was, you know,
(21:32):
possibly going through it and bothered him. You know when
I last conversation, was a lot of things on his mind.
That's why you know, so I mean it was very likely.
So are you kind of saying, like, in the moment,
you didn't think of him as depressed, but but like
looking back and kind of adding it all up, you
felt like maybe he was. In the moment, I'm not
(21:56):
gonna I didn't feel that. In the moment, I knew
that he was stressed. I knew that he was, you know,
it was bothering. I don't know, I don't know what
other words, you know, a less stronger word, just depressed.
I didn't think it was as serious. I didn't think
it was as far as you know, I'm feeling itself.
I know he cared about Miss Melissa a lot. You know,
(22:16):
he had a lot of he he loved his mother Derby.
I remember the first time I've seen him cry. She
had a gathering down in South City and when she
had up, gave her a speech and you know, exposed
you know, the severity, so uh condition, you know, he
was really upset. He walked outside, I walked out, he
went to his walked when he was, you know, shedding truth.
(22:37):
But he was a very strong person, so it's a
lot for him to actually cry, you know what I'm saying.
So that was also like he was concerned about his
mother's health. And stress, I know in his recent times,
because like he was burdened, you know, in his age,
and he feel like he was, you know, he wasn't
doing enough. After Damon told us that Dane felt like
he was a burden to his mother, which is something
(22:58):
we had not heard before him, and also told us
that his girlfriend Claire had spoken to Donia about depression
and he arranged for all of us to meet so
she could tell us what she knew. He did say
he was depressed because he felt like it wasn't going nowhere.
Do you remember when roughly that was becauld you play
some everything you wasn't close to everything we talked about
(23:21):
this outside of the crazy stuff, but everything that we
talked about, well he well, honestly we used to talk
about depression because I was depressed too. And then that's
when he came out and said that he was depressed
also because of everything that was going on and Bessie.
(23:41):
He just felt like at the age he wasn't where
he was supposed to be. But he's always been like
that ambitious and then it's like if you feel like
he's in a crush for too long, he had started
getting frustrated, but he won't express it that much, but
you can see it. I want to make sure I
have this crystal clear on the time, because Danye went
(24:03):
out to Colorado and the Idaho in and then he
didn't die until later. This was before he went to this, Okay,
so and then this is also the time when he
expresses to you, I'm also depressed. When he came back
after going to Idaho. It came home and then starts
(24:23):
staying with his mother and with Derek. Was he still
coming over a lot in that time? Yeah, he would
come to see Damon because Damiel will cut his hair,
but it wasn't. We didn't have any more conversations about
his depression. He just asked how I was feeling, without
any visible wounds, and with a chair turned over near
(24:45):
the tree. It was decided that Danye died by suicide.
His best friend Damon doesn't question that conclusion, but only
wonders what if what if he had gotten with Danya
that day. Listening to this show and thinking about the
facts of the case, We're sure that you listeners have
probably wondered, how would it be possible to hang someone
against their will without hurting them first? We've asked ourselves
(25:07):
that question over and over, and so we have imagined
a variety of scenarios when imagining how someone could get
the drop on Donya. The first thing people might wonder
is if Donya had been drugged. The toxicology report on
Donya only found metabolites of cannabis. His urine was positive
for eleven hydroxy t C and carboxy th C. Since
(25:29):
these metabolites can linger in the body for a long time,
we called the toxicology lab to ask if they thought
Donya was high when he died. What was the person's
name on this case? The person's name was Donye Jones.
The report says that there was some th HC metabolites
found within the urine sample, but it does not list
(25:50):
the units at the On the header page, it says
result confirmed present and then following it, there's like a
space for units, but it's blank. Hold on, let me,
let me, let me try to pull this case file
up here and see if I can and see what
you're talking about. So what are you trying to do? Though?
Like what are you what are you trying to figure out? Though?
Like the units? What does that mean? Though? Like how
(26:13):
I wanted to know. Is this something that was residual
in this person's system from like a week, two weeks,
three weeks prior to them dying, or were they high
when they died. So, if you're a smoker, depending upon
how have you of a smoker you are, you can
test positive weeks or even a couple of months later.
(26:35):
Certainly it depend up on how what level of a
smoker you are. So it's possible that this person could
have smoked two weeks ago. In the case, it sort
of matters if the person was using right then and
there or if it was like two weeks prior. Yeah,
I can't. I can't answer that. You need to subpoenas
somebody to find out some real information. Unless you're part
(26:55):
of law enforcement or something, you're probably not gonna be
able to get that. It's just that because it does
list the quantity found. So if it was done in
the urine, did I say it was done in urine? Yeah,
it's a specimen you one which they list as the urine.
That's why that's what I can tell you. Because the
urine wasn't quantitated, it was just confirmed present. Is there
(27:19):
a way to know if this person was high that
night or is there no way to know that? Okay, uh,
certainly there is. Yeah, Um, my opinion would be no.
Would there have been something else found besides these metabolites
Had they been high at the moment, they would have
been a show, they would have shown up. The toxicology
(27:42):
report does say they looked for alcohol and found none,
as well as common date rape drugs, which are benzo
diazepines called midazolem into mazapam and found none. They don't
seem to have looked for good old fashioned chloroform a
k A trichloro methane, but maybe that's because it's too
old school. Who knows. And then, of course there is
(28:03):
the YouTube search we mentioned at the end of episode eight.
When going through Danya's YouTube search history, we found a
search for how to tie a hangman's noose with a
blanket that occurred on October sixte Dania's last full day alive.
The video at links to was posted by a user
named I T. S Tactical and it's just shy of
(28:23):
five minutes long. The video demonstrates how to tie a
hangman's noose, but with a rope, not a blanket. Danyae's
YouTube history shows that the video was watched all the
way through. It would be easy to see this search
and try to close the book on the idea that
Danya was murdered, and we admit at first we began
to lean that way, but before we brought it to
(28:46):
Melissa's attention, we wanted to be damn sure of what
we've found. Right from the get go, we noted that
Danya wasn't hanged with a hangman's noose. We thought, if
Danye needed to watch a video on how to tie
inn not to hang himself, the knot that was ultimately
chosen wasn't this one and the only other searches he
(29:07):
ever did on not tying or for how to tie ties,
you know, like a tie you wear with a suit.
So if don Ye did watch this video, he didn't
learn anything from it that he would end up putting
to use. So we scrutinized the search history data and
found that it contained something that we thought was very bizarre.
(29:27):
Just buckle in and stay with us here. The hangman's
new search was in his list of searches, meaning there
were twenty six other searches that he made after the
new search, and those searches were for a lot of
random things you wouldn't imagine would be on someone's mind
if they were trying to learn how to hang themselves.
For instance, there's a search for gap funding for real
(29:49):
estate investors, and one for how to be your own
financial advisor. There's a search for when your boss makes
you work mandatory Saturdays, and even one for how to
use hp off us Jet sixty hundred. We couldn't help
but get stuck on the question why would someone planning
to take their own life in a matter of hours
be looking up videos on investments? It was FERI con
(30:12):
what life is like in Boston, how to use an
office jet printer. After scrutinizing these searches, another oddity came
to light. For the twenty six searches that come after
the Hangman's New search, none of the corresponding videos were
actually watched. In fact, every search done after the Hangman's
New search actually corresponded to a video that Dania watched
(30:34):
in the days and weeks before the sixteen. So, for instance,
there's a search for Kendrick Lamar Heart Part four, which
Dania actually watched on the seventh, So eleven days prior.
There's a search for what info does a private lender need,
which was actually something he watched on October twelve, so
four days prior that weird office jet printer search. He
(30:57):
watched that video on September twenty nine, so more than
two weeks prior. And again, none of these twenty six
searches are for videos that Donya would actually watch on
the sixteenth, after the Hangman's New search. Why would Danya
do this, make these twenty searches after the Hangman's New
search but not watch any of the videos. What does
(31:17):
it all mean? It looks as though perhaps there was
intent to push the search for the Hangman's News video
down the search queue. It's not pushed so far as
to be gone entirely, but it's pushed far enough down
the stack so it isn't immediately visible when one taps
the search bar to begin a new search. This could
(31:38):
easily be accomplished by randomly tapping old searches in the
search history over and over again without actually watching any
of the content that they linked to, until the desired
search is pushed to the bottom of the pile. Why
would he push his Hangman's New search far down the queue.
If he was trying to hide it from others, he
could have used this same technique and pushed it all
(32:01):
the way out so it could never be found. He
also could open his Google history and delete the search
and the viewing of the video entirely. And we have
to ask who would he have been hiding it from.
No one in his household had his phone pass code.
If he planned on dying by suicide that night, only
hours later, the intent would readily be clear by morning.
(32:24):
The placement of the hangman's new search beneath twenty six
other searches that he had originally made in the days
and weeks prior looked to us like a pattern of
activity aimed at concealment. Yes, it could have been done
who aimed to conceal the fact that he made this search,
But it would be odd that he wouldn't conceal it
(32:45):
entirely or deleted if he was, in fact so afraid
of somebody finding it. Then there is the timing of
the search. It happened at seven fifty three pm, and
the corresponding video was watched at seven fifty four pm.
This is exactly when Donye would have been on the
couch in the basement watching the Boston Celtics season opener
(33:10):
next to his stepfather Derek. What time I got downstairs,
he already had the game. More so I sat down
and when we're born back and forth, you know, shooting
ship like my guys do you know almost lakers Man,
so you know, if it was almost in an opposition
of each other. So that's what made the game so
good because he's a self expanding on my lakers Man.
When I came down there, you know, he has his paperworkout.
(33:33):
You know, he's on his research, but he's also watching
the game at the same time, so kind of like
you know, he's kind of back and forth with it.
And then once we really got into the game, you
know we Kara just seven in the Wattern game. Which
did you get up at any point, like from the
time that you went down there until that you left
her work? Did you do you think he probably left
the basement once or twice or did you stay down
there the whole time? Yeah, I can't really recalled. I
don't think I left the basement at all when I
(33:55):
went down there, because we have cold drinks and refrigerators,
so I have to go upstairs and we're having I think,
you know what about like, what would you have done
during halftime? Do you think get up to stretch your
legs or probably just stayed down there and hung out
with him or what. I never went upstairs. I really
don't think I want up stairs at all during the time.
Did you do you recall him watching anything on the phone,
Like would he have been watching the game and then
(34:17):
like watching a video on his phone? You recall anything
like that if you did. I really can't recall if
he did or not. But he's right down he said
he's doing he was doing some light. How would you
describe the movie? There's just routine, is you know, it
was just a regular knight plus at home. Let me
talk about board and hey, we're coming back when we
had a bag and we had an injury or whatever,
you'll do basketball because the sports talk I was giving
(34:38):
him the visions about the legs. I say, anybody you
know be you know, billy whatever, They ain't gonna be
the leggers, you know, and uh, you know, we was
asking about that or whatever, and then uh, I said,
I'm doin't gonna go to work, you know. Um, I
see how the more like you at He was like,
all right, all right, up right, you know, I was
getting out of work or whatever, and I went on
(34:58):
upstairs and kiss my wife's flag, going to work out
of it. The order of the search history, plus the
timing of the search made us again consider maybe there
was more here than meets the eye. We told all
of this to Melissa. And also the time for it
was at seven fifty PM, which is when he was
(35:23):
watching basketball with Derek, so that could mean a lot
of things. Someone could say, you know, perhaps he did
it when Derek got up to go to the bathroom,
or you know, it was halftime and Derek went to
get a snack and Danye quickly did that. So it's
not proof, but it's interesting that the timing is is
(35:48):
pretty odd. It would seem sort of strange to just
jump right out of nowhere in the middle of this
basketball game to quickly do that and then go right
back to living life. You know. There was one other
detail that we found. The Hangman's New search wasn't made
from an Android. It was made from an Apple device,
(36:09):
so it wasn't made from the Android. Now I do
know that Danya also had an iPhone well, you know what,
I know, he get um Android's home Journette Kyle, who
I talked to dear about. I mean, his mood that
night was nothing like of a mood where we would
(36:33):
be concerned about anything. You know. It was exciting that
I could still laughing about this game. But that's just
don't fund right. According to the police report, Detective Matthew King,
who was working alongside Detective Andrewer the morning Danye died,
checked both of Danyae's phones. One he said was pass
(36:54):
code protected so he couldn't access it. The other, he wrote,
was either broken or it had a dead battery. He
had just lost his stores or so he would come
and ask me give you mine, and sometimes I'll be like,
thank Danye, m you with a mind. I really don't.
I don't remember if he used it that day. I
(37:18):
really don't think he did. I know I had it
that night because I was in the Spear bedroom, so
I had it at that time when you know, everything happened,
it was upstairs. Melissa couldn't remember the last time Donna
borrowed her iPhone charger, but she believes the evening that
(37:39):
he died, she had it with her as she watched
TV upstairs. Since Detective King found an iPhone with no
charge the next morning, there was a chance at least
that Danye's iPhone was not charged on the evening of
the sixteen. We just can't say for certain. Now. The
most interesting thing, and this is what can earns me
(38:00):
the most, is that I went back in and I
was trying to look at his history again and go
through it, and some of that history seems to have
been deleted since we looked at it the first time.
There is stuff, yeah, there is stuff that we saw
for October seventeen, the viewing of about six music videos
(38:20):
on YouTube, and but when I went back to look
at those, they're gone. When we first went through Donye's
YouTube history and saw that six music videos were watched
on October sevente we assumed they were watched by don
Ya in the early morning hours before he died, so
after midnight but before four am. When we revisited his
(38:43):
data a few weeks later, any trace of activity for
the seventeen was gone. We documented it the first time.
We took photographs of it, so we have photographs of
it being there. And I can't say this for certain,
but it makes me wonder, is someone still logged into
(39:03):
his account somewhere perhaps oh wow, yeah, oh yeah. So
and there's other weird things. There's a lot of little
weird things that like, quite frankly, I'm not an expert,
and I can't explain if someone has his password and
is still logging into it, or perhaps you know, there's
(39:26):
maybe a device like someone else's phone that he logged
into a long time ago, and then it's like one
of those things where the password saved and they can
just switch back in. I don't know, I really don't.
But my feeling is just that Google is this huge company.
YouTube is a huge company there, you know, billion dollar industry,
(39:49):
and they make their money tracking data, you know, selling
data and keeping track of everything. So I don't think
things just go missing by themselves. And again I don't
want to like over sell this, but there's a possibility
just and maybe it's remote, maybe it's slim, but that
(40:10):
if we can get to subpoena Google, we can see
exactly who is logged in making those searches, possibly deleting history,
possibly reorganizing history. Because if somebody is doing that, I
know I got chills too when we were thinking about this.
(40:32):
We remembered a piece of a conversation we once had
with Derek and Melissa. Let us say it. I had
saw him. He was into his tablet thing looking um
for he was looking at low on YouTube. That's what
I think. It was a tablet. Is there a table
We don't wait, a taboot one of those downstairs at
(40:53):
the other house. It was a tablet. That was you know,
because I do what I'm saying, working on a tablet,
and it could be in a borrow tablet. Some some
fans some marcularity because I don't are. YouTube search history
(41:13):
is not device specific, it's account specific. So if you
log into your Google account on a tablet and make
searches and then go to your YouTube history on your phone,
the searches will still be visible. If it's true that
Donya borrowed a tablet from somebody and had logged into
YouTube on it and then return the tablet before logging out,
(41:34):
whoever had that tablet could make searches and delete activity,
and we would find that going through his history on
his phone. It could be a door that blows wide
open and is great and helps answer all the questions.
It could also be something that gets an answer and
it's not what we expected, and we go, oh, okay,
(41:56):
and it's not you know, so I just want to
make sure, like I don't want to get your whole
way up, but I think we need to pursue it.
And the problem is the only ones who can pursue
it are people who have legal subpoena power, right, okay,
all right. It's hard not to see this YouTube search
(42:19):
as a piece of critical evidence, a digital fingerprint belonging
to either Danja himself or to a conspirator in his murder.
But as it stands, we have no way of pinning
down exactly which device from which WiFi router was used
to make the search. We also have no way of
opening Danya's iPhone. We needed someone with subpoena power. Plus,
(42:42):
there were other questions. If Danya was actually murdered, the
planning and execution of the act would seem to require
the murderers have a lot of not only skill and
ability to hide their deeds, but also inside knowledge about
Danya's life and the layout of his home. How would
all of this be possible? Is it possible? Or does
(43:04):
he even considering Danye's death a homicide at this point
stretched the imagination farther than it rationally wants to bend.
That's next time on After the Uprising. After the Uprising
is directed, produced, investigated, written and reported by myself, Raino Vischelski,
and John Duffy. John Duffy was also the editor. Dave
(43:27):
Cassidy was producer, Sound engineering, design and mixed by Josh Condon.
Executive producers were Matt McDonough and Tina x Eros for
Now This, Brett Kushner for Group nine Media, and Jeff
Boove was executive in charge of production. Jonathan Hartwig and
Bradley Rayford were consulting producers. Eliza Craig was assistant producer
and did additional reporting. Mallory Keenoy was a writer's assistant.
Kristen McVicker and Taya Wilson were production assistants, and Hailey
(43:50):
Klezmer was a post production assistant. Fact checking by Alison Humes.
Theme song and other music by Zachary Walter, legal by
Keith Sclar and Peter Yazy. Special thanks to Ann fraud Oh,
Danny Gonzalez, Barbara Copple, Alex Lester, Bethan Macaluso, Emily Maronoff,
Ruth Vaka, and the Reporter's Committee for Freedom of the Press.
After the Uprising is a production of Double asterisk I
(44:10):
Heart Media and now this in association with True Stories.
You can find us on Twitter and Facebook. If you
have useful information about the death of Danye Jones or
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line at three four seven six seven four seven four
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