Cody Rhodes Best Stories: John Cena, Logan Paul & Leaving WWE

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome back to Unplugged. This episode is presented to you
by Draft Kings. Crown is yours. Before we get started,
shout out the homie Lazy Bone. I opened up your package. Brother.
This dude got like three nice T shirts. He gave
me a clock like the red clock from the First
of the month, videos and rolling trays. What else? I
love when guests bring us gifts anyway, appreciate you, bro.

(00:22):
Last week, we had an opportunity to sit down with
the Undisputed WWE Champion, Cody Rhoades. First and foremost, it
was my first time meeting I'm obviously knowing the lineage
of his family and how great his dad was and
having a brother in the space. My first impression he
was clean, probably the most well dressed guest I've ever had,

(00:43):
but just the energy, the charisma seemed like a really
great dude. I think you guys are gonna really enjoy
this interview. Take a look. Welcome back to Unplugged. Today
we got a very special guest, WWE superstar Undisputed Champion
the QB one him Sol Cody Rhodes. Welcome to the show.
It's an honor. Hey, I have to say, man, I've

(01:05):
been doing this show, this show and my other show
for six You're definitely the cleanest one who has ever
stepped in this building. Man, from head to time. I mean,
I'm over here like I was wearing slippers before you
came in. You made me put my shoes on. I mean,
you have something in your lap right here? What is
this belt? Obviously coming from a long line of great
wrestlers in your family, to be at the top of

(01:26):
the mount right now as the champion with the belt present,
what does that mean to you to hold this belt?

Speaker 2 (01:32):
I am This is the WW Championship, the undisputed WW Championship.
For me, this was this massive culmination of not just
the story I had in the wrestling business, but my
dad as well. And it spans not just decades, but
it spans kind of my knowledge of the industry. When

(01:53):
he goes to wrestle Superstar Billy Graham in nineteen seventy
eight in Madison Square Garden, he's just a guest from Florida,
and the crowd takes to him and they love him
so much that he wins the match, But he wins
it in a way that Superstar still left with the belt,
which was the common practice of keeping the territory the
way it was. I had seen this photo of him,

(02:15):
and I had seen him holding the title, not ever
knowing he had won the championship because I wasn't born
to l eighty five, And he explains to me the
story this is still when I think wrestling is one
hundred and ten percent as real as he gets, so
that it became the goal. Oh eight years old, I
see this frame with this photo and him holding this title,
and I thought, I have to win.

Speaker 1 (02:33):
It for him.

Speaker 2 (02:35):
And now you know, I'm forty years old and I
look at the business quite differently. But I did not
get my opportunity at the w Championship till I came back.
For me, what it represents is the biggest title we
have in our game. You know, you have your your
various trophies, your you know, your Lombardi Trophy, your Stanley Cup,
whatever it may be, and this is this is the

(02:57):
one that you know can always go on last and
can all He's lead the company. It means something different
for different people. When John Cena had it, it meant
this is the hardest working guy in the game. When
Roman Reigns had it, there was this element of presentation
and aura. As all the young'uns say today, it always
means something a little different. And I feel we're in
that stage of my career where we're identifying what it

(03:20):
means for me.

Speaker 1 (03:21):
Yeah, still write in that chapter. Yeah, you also have
a brother that was in the space. Well, so what
was childhood like with you guys? And obviously your dad
being a wrestling star other sports wrestling at time. Remember
my parents used to screen stop flipping your sister and
throwing your brother, like, what was what was your household?

Speaker 2 (03:39):
Like my oldest brother, Dustin, who was ww's gold dust
and wrestle, this Dustin Rhodes. I admired him so much
as a little kid because there's a sixteen year age gap. Yeah,
he doesn't love me pointing it out, but there's a
large there's a large age gap. And I would watch
him at the Omni in Atlanta or you know making

(03:59):
you know, the Central Plex, whatever it was, and he
was the women would be going nuts for him when
you go out there, and he was six six, He
just he seemed like the greatest wrestler ever, And particularly
I was watching him in his rookie years and knew
he was gonna be something special. I admired him, wanted
to be like him a great deal. That's uh. Anytime

(04:23):
you have any family in the in the business, you know,
my father and my brother the biggest thing that's important
that you do. And my dad was really good on
instilling this. You have to be really different than they were.
You can't do you can't do tribute. You gotta you
almost got to get away from your own identity. Yeah,
you gotta, you know, you gotta get far. I got
two nephews who are breaking in the industry, which is jarring,

(04:45):
but they're gonna make it, and they're breaking in now.
And the thing I told him was, you gotta go
and train with someone who doesn't care about the road stuff.
Trained with somebody who doesn't know about Austin Hall wrestling
boots or the cowboy wrestlers of old. Get with you know,
the like the hearts, get that different style and that
different flavor it or really behoove you as you move
forward in your career. But to me, growing up, it

(05:08):
was always I felt we had a very normal life.
I really did. I didn't realize how abnormal Dusty's job
was until I first moved into a subdivision, and that's
where other kids, you know, my dad's a salesman, my
dad's a teacher, whatever it may be. They really looked
at my dad just with really superhero very Yeah, but

(05:32):
I think also a little like Adam's family, because he
would mow the lawn in his dr wrestling trunks and
he had these ray bands. My dad this head was
like as round as this blue table, and these ray
bands were basically breaking. They're sucked onto his head. You'd
have to pull them with all the force in the world.

(05:53):
You'd always make a big spectacle, which was part of
how it was done at the time. You'd always let
people know you were in the room. Loud, yes, very loud.
But I didn't realize it was so different until I
got around other kids, and for me, I just it
was dead. Yeah, it was very much. He was older,
he was a producer. He wasn't as active in the
ring anymore as he was with the first kiddos. Yeah,

(06:16):
it just was a very normal childhood until you went
to the office one day. Then you saw, okay, this is.

Speaker 1 (06:23):
What was the pressure. Like I have two sixteen year
old twin boys who aspire to play basketball, obviously you
come from a line of greatness when it comes to
your profession. What was it like with that Road's last name,
kind of breaking in and kind of making your own name.

Speaker 2 (06:38):
My sister Teel, she always looked at it in a
way where she would say, you don't look at it
as a shadow, look at it as a light. And
I've really stood by that because I think a lot
of second gen third generant like they focused too much
on how difficult the hill is to climb, or how
unfair it is perhaps to climb, versus think of the

(07:01):
success you had right, think of the ring, think of
where you've been if if you're the kiddos. I don't
think there's any shame in saying, oh, I want to
be better. I want to I want to say I'd
be able to outplay him, and that as a father,
I think my dad wanted to. Mister Hamond Paul hamon

(07:22):
the other day had said that he thought I had passed.
He had mentioned in an interview he thought he I'd
passed my dad in terms of the wrestling game, and
to me, that's asinine and I don't believe so. But
as he was saying it, inside, I was like yeah, yeah,
you know, and like you know, like you want to

(07:43):
get there.

Speaker 1 (07:44):
Yeah. Rest in peace to your father. But he is
literally the one man that wants you to be as
great as you can be with no strings attached to it.
Yea better than him. He would love to know that
his son looking down and raised a good son. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:58):
I think that's the that's the beauty in this. And
I think when you're at a level of success that
you've had, and in the wrestling space, a level of
success that my dad had, it you're just setting that
bar really really high, really really high. This is gonna
sound mean, but I don't mean it sound mean. There

(08:20):
are other second and third generations in the industry, but
they're not always like the success sons of a mount
Rushmore dad or mom. You know, I'm not knocking it,
but that almost Hey, your door is a little more
open than my door is, right, But I wouldn't have
it any other way. I wouldn't because it's so you know,
Charlotte Flair, who's Rick Flair's daughter, That's another one. Look
at the cards you were handed. Ava, who's at NXT,

(08:42):
who's rock Starter.

Speaker 1 (08:44):
Look at the.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
Cards you were handed. That's if anything that's just a
wonderful challenge. That's a wonderful challenge and if you get there, amazing,
God bless you.

Speaker 1 (08:54):
The WWE and the business of it right now is
on fire. Recently signed a deal with ESPN for all
your premium live events, your YouTube pages numbers eleven in
the world. Signed a deal, a multi year deal with
one of the best partners in the game, one of
our partners, Netflix. The business of WWE, and you've seen
it since a child, and the growth in the peaks

(09:16):
and valleys, and you've seen other and been in other leagues.
What makes the WWE what it is and why is
it so hot right now?

Speaker 2 (09:24):
Gosh, I wish we could kind of trap the lightning
in a bottle as to what's been created with ww
and being so hot Netflix and ESPN. I was on
the red carpet for the Netflix premiere for Monday Night
Row and I was having to kind of kick myself.

Speaker 1 (09:41):
In La in La. That shit was amazing. I went
Holy cow, and I sat next to Stephanie McMahon. I'm like,
holy shit, Like I was fanboying out because I was
a huge not to cut your off, keep your train
of thought growing up and I was born in nineteen eighty,
so wrestling was my life. Your Dad, the Islanders, Hulk, Holgan,
Jyd all these people like you couldn't tell me. I
would fight someone to try to tell me that shit

(10:02):
was fair, of course, you know what I mean. So
just to kind of see where it's been. And then
I kind of died off a little bit, and then
my twins picked it up, and I swore they were
going to be professional wrestles until they found out daddy
played basketball and they wanted to go that direction. So
again you got to see it from all levels, from
a child to someone who saw the success and the
peaks and valleys, and now you're at again the top

(10:23):
of the mountain as the undispeeded champion. But the business
side has never been as hot and never been as big.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
Into a dome, you had really great seats. If you're
sitting next to step shut Out, Netflix, Netflix Premiere. As
I was on the carpet, I just kept kicking myself
and trying to remind myself to be present and be
as silly as it sounds, be Cody Rhods, you're doing
these interviews, you're taking these pictures, because I was really
caught up in the idea of thinking about the eighties,

(10:48):
thinking about not just my father but all his peers
and everything they had did wrestling sometimes you know, eight
times a week if they were going twice on Sunday,
and the more carnival aspect of territory wrestling and going
from city to city and doing it at that pace.
This was everything they ever dreamed of. This was everything.
ESPN is just, oh my gosh, this is to be

(11:10):
taken seriously by the biggest, the main sports component in
the entire world, and not just to be taken seriously
to come to the table and say, hey, look at
what we have, look at our value. Look at WrestleMania
forty that shattered every record. And it's really started WrestleMania
in Dallas in a few years, not a few years,

(11:31):
but a few months leading into that Russemania Dallas, coming
out of COVID, everything wrestling just became a place to
come back to for fans, and there's so many great
stories to gravitate to. You have great great wrestlers like
Ria Ripley and Seth Rollins and Roman Reigns of course
and see them punk. It's just a almost comedic list

(11:52):
of high wrestling IQ talent that love to engage with
the crowd, mean it, mean what they're doing, authentic in
their presentation, and they've just got it to this place
now where like you said, we're number eleven, But I'm
almost mad hearing number eleven because get gotta get its way,
gotta get it on that TOPI but I will say

(12:12):
this is as far as the business is concerned, the
business really has taken this unbelievable turn upwards with the
inclusion of Nick Cohn. And I don't know if you
know Nick, but Nick is the president of WW now
and he has just looked at it with a different
and a fresh outlook that is really nice for a
wrestler's wrestler like me. I try to take a note
pretty much every time he says anything thinking is that

(12:35):
seems like wisdom? You know, just there's something special in
how he is operating WW at this level. And I
hope we can continue to break all the records because
nobody gets more mad than eighties wrestlers and nineties wrestlers
when the business keeps taking off.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
And I love it.

Speaker 2 (12:50):
Because that's what we're supposed to do. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:53):
Recently, SummerSlam John Cena tell us about Yeah, the reason
why you're holding that belt now, tell us about that
day and the lead up and what it meant to
finally get it.

Speaker 2 (13:04):
I was very excited about Summerslime because MetLife. So it's
New York, New Jersey, and that's not an easy market.
They've seen it all. They're a special market and that
you have to be special for them to care. You know,
it's the same vibe when you're going into the garden almost.
It's just if you can make it in New York,

(13:24):
I really can't make it anywhere. And to wrestle a
person who gave me his playbook, who was the model
for how I like to be as a babyface professional wrestler,
how I like to do it, how I liked it.
We were talking an off camera, how I would work
seven days a week, if the rhythm of wrestling and
going to every town to be able to stand across

(13:46):
from a guy who was your mentor somebody who talked
to you about, hey, well this is why this worked,
this is why this didn't work. You should work on this,
you should improve this. It's rare you get the time
to actually play the game against them, right, You might
have all those lessons, but you're playing against somebody else.
It's really rare you can stand across from that guy,
look him in the eye and not just be grateful

(14:06):
and and thankful, but also hope he sees you and go, ah,
there he is right and and and make him see you.
And the opportunity to do two matches with John, one
at WrestleMania and then one at SummerSlam where we could
really treat them almost as one match in itself. Very
blessed that I got to be in there with him.
But in the moment, it couldn't be one of those
I'm blessed, It couldn't be one of those. It needed.

(14:28):
I needed to bring everything I possibly could, and he
has given. We're at the tail end of John's farewell tour.
He has given everything as far as you could possibly give,
body wise and mind wise to the industry, especially with
the young talent who asked questions. If you're a young talent,
you asked John Cen a question, get ready to get
ready because he's not because a lot.

Speaker 1 (14:48):
Of some superstars and different sports aren't like that. Oh yeah,
you know what I mean. And uh, tell us a
little bit about him as a person obviously, you know
he's been someone that's been able to transcend not only
in wrestling but acting in other ventures. What kind of
person is he?

Speaker 2 (15:02):
I had a really great feeling that he would do
well when Peacemaker came up, or acting gigs in general,
because of his attitude when it comes to ww John
was always wanting to work, was there, early, stayed the latest.
Wasn't in the habit of just selling tickets as much
as he was selling a story. He was selling an experience,

(15:24):
something that you would come back to. And then you
hear these stories of him going on sets all over
town here and being the most professional guy he'd ever met,
the most prepared guy you ever met. I think John
has tons of natural talent, gift of gab, and incredible physique,
incredibly functionally truly strong. He had tons of natural talent

(15:46):
to be a pro wrestler. But the thing he'll be
remembered for is the work. Is the work ethic he
had is he set a standard that this isn't like
an old man shouting at clouds thing. But if you're
at an XT right now and you don't know about
what John's day was like on a Monday, night, what
his day was like as a performer, then you should

(16:06):
look it up because that's the level.

Speaker 1 (16:08):
You need to do.

Speaker 2 (16:09):
And even now with ESPN and Netflix and all the spotlight,
you got to do even more. But he just he
probably would have made it on talent alone. But the
reason John Cena and you can't see me is, you know,
culturally relevant is his work ethic.

Speaker 1 (16:23):
Street Fight of the movie, Yeah, and you're playing guy
Isle is gonna say, yeah, you know who they need
to get for then Keith is one of Jog's brothers.

Speaker 2 (16:31):
Hey, I sent the director Catao, the director for Street Fighter.
I sent him a joke the other day. I said,
what are street fighters like in their Hamburgers? And he
I got like a long dot dot dot, a long
ellipses forever, and then he finally said what And I said,
zang beef. And I thought that joke nailed, and it didn't.

(16:56):
It's just I think he gave me like the face
with the one line thought I was a hit street
Fighter is. I'm so glad I got to do that.
Try to tell stories in a different way, and that
crew Kleina Cogoah the three leads to this movie. Andrew Schultz,
stand up comedian fifty cents playing ball rog It's It

(17:17):
was such a ridiculous moment to have everyone on set,
but it was so well organized rehearsing, like we were
actually going to be fighting somebody on the weekend because
everybody was locked into Australia going over all the dialogue together.
It was just a really well oiled machine and legendary
pictures and I'm I'm blessed to be part of that.

(17:39):
I went in for a meeting thinking I was going
to talk to them about other stuff and they told me, oh,
we want you for guy, and I I know, I
know the role. You know, it's a charge character.

Speaker 1 (17:50):
I used to play that game.

Speaker 2 (17:52):
I do find it funny because every now and then
my list will really settle out and be pronounced. There
was a few haters online who kept saying a sonic
boom and now I kind of just want to find
it somewhere. I just want to find sonic boom. But
it was a blast.

Speaker 1 (18:10):
Podcasts. You're also in that space. Now, what do you
want to talk about? Yeah? Do you like it?

Speaker 2 (18:15):
By the way, do you like this?

Speaker 1 (18:17):
Love it? Oh?

Speaker 2 (18:18):
Good, all right, I love it.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
I'm in between well, because you're still your current you
know what I mean? Like to me, I don't think
I could put all the time I needed for this
to be successful. It is if I was still playing.

Speaker 2 (18:28):
I tell them this. Yeah, it's a commit It's hard.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
It's hard. No, it is because I mean I think
people think, Okay, podcasts, they're not They're not easy. There
are a lot of work. You need a great team
around you. Look like you have a good team, but
it's just like the work you need to put into
for this to be successful takes away from your primary
job and the fatherhood and all the other great things
you have going on.

Speaker 2 (18:47):
Do you do? You do a lot of ad reads.

Speaker 1 (18:50):
Hate them. I just did them for your coming.

Speaker 2 (18:51):
Okay, so they made the mistake of on my pod,
what do you want to talk about? Which I do love.
I just don't know if I'm any good for it
is we there's cocktails provided by Wheatlee Vodka, and they
make these specialty cocktails. This season for some reason, everybody's
going live rounds. There's not been one false episode. So

(19:12):
you're pumping out three of these in a day with
like a Damien Priest or someone like that. You getting,
You're getting there right, So then they'll have you do
the ad reason for you know, a rectile dysfunction roasts
and it's you're just and I'm already trying that, like
you're just. I'm locked in and the prompter is so long,

(19:34):
and all the codes are your name plus fifty off
like Cody fifty off sign up at backslash code. I
they're brutal. Two of them have not made it. Two
of them have flat out not seen air because just
on the intro for someone I really like, I'm not
you can't put that out there. I can barely get
her name out, Like that's no good, you know what

(19:54):
I'm talking about these, So we're redoing a few of them. Yeah,
I'm learning.

Speaker 1 (19:58):
I've learned one thing. I can give you adviceles and
don't take yourself serious doing it. I used to try
to like really read it and have a serious voice.
I laugh like I'm doing. We do roast sparks, and
I laugh at some of like it's obviously they pay
the bills, so they're very important. I don't enjoy them.
But there I think we start to have more fun because,
similar to you, we'll drink or smoke and shoot three
episodes and we're doing what now, we're doing adreads. I
can't even see the screen right now. I love this.

Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yeah, I'm gonna take that strategy going into it because
they are just.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
Yeah, don't take it so serious, be able to laugh
at yourself. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
I like this because a lot of this could be
done shorter too.

Speaker 1 (20:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
The sponsor's great, thank you for the money. Let me
say your name and what you do.

Speaker 1 (20:35):
And once you guys do a rolling. What they've allowed
us to do now is on some of them like
put in your own words, which I'll make it go
a lot, not to Craig, but anyway, I mean, what
is it? What was it been like in again Champion
and we'll touch on a little bit A proud father
of two beautiful little girls. But then this podcast? What

(20:55):
does the podcast space meant to you? And how have
you enjoyed it outside of ad Reids.

Speaker 2 (21:02):
I've enjoyed it because you get to show you're seen
one way as a wrestler, particularly my guest on the show.
You're seeing almost sometimes barely three dimensional. Maybe that character
is what presents and that's all there is. And there's
a vulnerability to when you sit across from somebody and
you actually have you share this drink together, and you

(21:24):
ask questions outside of the suspension of disbelief, outside of
canonical what we're doing on our show more a little
bit behind the scenes. But I like to showcase my
guests in a way that if you didn't understand them,
maybe you'll start watching a raw or SmackDown and maybe
that's your guy now, Maybe that's your girl now, just
because there's something you didn't know about. You know, wrestlers

(21:46):
are a funny, insecure, wildly confident sometimes party animals. They're
just all over the map. The human element of it
gets to be on what do you want to talk about?
And I like that a lot.

Speaker 1 (21:58):
Well, I think two and to add my goal being
in this space for almost sixteen now was being able
to humanize your guests and show like, you know, everyone
knows what you do, but I wanted to be able
to pull back the curtain a little bit more from
my audience and kind of show you as a man,
as a father, as a businessman. So that's kind of
always been my thought process going into it, and again
to introduce fans to new people and new opportunities. Before

(22:23):
you were the top guy in the WWE you left
in twenty sixteen. Yeah, can you explain that journey?

Speaker 2 (22:28):
Oh man, it was I'm surprised they let me back,
and legally, I one thing there's a byproduct of my
departure is nobody gets to leave how I left. I
got so a lucky I was Dusty rhodes Son. Also,
I think they respected that I had put in a
decade of work. I didn't even sign my release papers.

(22:50):
I told them I was done on social media, which
is none of this works anymore, none of this flies anymore.
I had to leave, and I've heard described as I
wanted to not be treated as a little kid anymore,
and they were only ever gonna see me as a
little kid. And I'm thirty at the time. A ten
year shift's been put in. I've offered a different body

(23:12):
of work than my brother or dad ever did, just different,
just a different variety. And maybe maybe it was a
matter if I wanted to come back and be seen
as an adult or come back and be seen as Hey,
I've accrued all this knowledge. I've wrestled Triple h I've
wrestled The Undertaker, I've been in the ring with Sean Michaels.
You don't get that knowledge unless you're in the ring
with them, and you guys aren't allowing me to showcase it.

(23:35):
But as time's going on, I look back at it
and think a lot of it was more immaturity on
my part. Anger, a lot of anger which can take
you very very far. My gosh, a chip on your shoulder.
I just wanted to show outside of the bubble of
w B, and I've talked about the bubble. I wanted
to show that I could mobilize an audience to follow me.

(23:57):
If that meant to a VFW hall where can only
hold four hundred people, if that meant to the cow
Palace where you're you know, putting you know, over four
thousand people in there for a show that wasn't w
B or the original all In, which was just a
person on social saying nobody can get ten thousand people
besides w B and me taking the bet, and then

(24:20):
the next thing you know, we're off and running and
there's an alternative promotion out there. I was very lucky, though,
I got to find a sexier way to tell the story.
Aroun I'm like, oh, I knew all along, and you know,
but I was very lucky because I was surrounded by
good people. I was so angry that I wasn't sleeping.
I was just motivated. I needed to be everywhere at

(24:42):
every point I possibly could be, and especially with social
media and podcasts and how everything are today, I wanted
to make sure throughout my time away, I took the
news feed away. Every week, I did something every week
that took the news feed away. And to the point
where you know, the Bullet Club was group I was
part of. Finn Balor started the Bullet Club in New

(25:03):
Japan and aj Styles was a leader, and we had
so many shirts at a WrestleMania that a market dealer
was asking, hey, where are they? When are they on
the show, and they had to be told, oh there,
that's another thing. So just the underground scene, meeting my
flavor and the guys I was around. Just again, I

(25:25):
never can explain it correctly, but I was. I was
very lucky to have that, and I was very motivated
to get it done.

Speaker 1 (25:30):
But I mean, also to your credit, you bet on yourself. Yeah,
which is important. I think a lot of people like
you said. I mean, you mentioned earlier than some wrestlers
are insecure and there's a lot of athletes are insecure
as a whole, like to be able to have the
legacy in the weight on your shoulders, to be at
the top of the mount in the WWE and then bounce,
take a you know, leave and have a hiatus for
you know, a handful of years and be able to

(25:51):
come back like you bet on yourself.

Speaker 2 (25:53):
And it worked, It worked, and it worked further than
I ever imagine. I think everyone thought w B lifer,
and nobody knew this was always the goal until I
really set it out loud and tried to will it
in existence and came back to w B. But I
think a lot about it now because now I'm I'm

(26:13):
often put out there as the face of the company,
and I don't know if that's accurate or not, but
that's often where I'm positioned, and I'm honored by that role.
But I think, is he still inside? I know that's
like a crazy thing. Is this disruptor? Is he still
in there? How would he approach this? How would he feel?

(26:35):
I try everything I can to not become a corporate
version of myself, even in the most corporate setting. That's
important because it's it could be quite easy actually, you know,
you get everything you ever want and then you got
to find it inside. Is it still on fire?

Speaker 1 (26:52):
You know? Then? Also too, I mean, I mean you're
forty years old. I mean understanding the journey you've been on.
I think a lot of people don't appreciate and enjoy
the journey. Yeah, because it's you know, you've been wrestling
for twenty years now, and you know, God willing however
long you want to wrestle. You know, you're kind of
on the back side of that. So just understanding and
appreciating that journey because it's been incredible. Were there ever

(27:14):
times talk to us, because it's only natural times that
during you were on between sixteen and twenty two when
you went back, was there any times you doubted yourself before.

Speaker 2 (27:22):
I came back to w Oh my gosh. All the
time I thought about going and getting a degree, because
in Georgia, if you have a degree, you can be
a wrestling coach. I was really into amateur wrestling growing up.
I was the only one in my family who did
folk style, freestyle greco Roman. I thought I'd be a
really good coach and that I never thought about a
plan B. So that was the first time Plan B

(27:43):
comes up. You're married at the time, no children just yet,
but looking to start a family. And you can't start
a family with just nothing, you know, or a little
bit of savings here and there. From my time with
w B. But I doubted myself. I feel like I
doubt myself every step of the journey. But here's what

(28:03):
happens in wrestling, is you put up a good performance,
you have a match, you do somethings, a segment of promo.
The fans are always the one to tell you that
you're doing it, that that something is happening. And that
was undeniable during that period, and it was there was
others involved with me, but it was undeniable, the buzz

(28:25):
that was happening. And it'll give you a great example.
You do a show in San Antonio in a bowling
alley for three thousand people a bowling alley. Right, They've
been sitting there for five hours watching this TV taping
and you're the last thing out there, and you stay
out there for forty five minutes to an hour, just
making jokes on the mic, off camera, greeting the fans,

(28:46):
and not a single soul leaves. You know, there's something
going there's something happening, and that's always been I never
get mad at fans, and fans had booed me in
the past, and maybe they weren't supposed to boom me,
or fans had gotten to me in a social space,
whatever it was. I never could go to sleep mad
at them because they're also responsible for everything I have.

(29:10):
And that's not just my career, but the confidence. You
can't do it for silence, right, the live audience needs
is what we do.

Speaker 1 (29:19):
Yes, this is what makes you the noise, being able
to decide for the noise of what set's greatness apart. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:24):
Tully Blanchard is a legendary wrestler from the Four Horsemen.
I remember him telling me your job is just to
make them the loudest, the longest. It doesn't matter if
it's up that booze cheers, just the loudest, the longest.
And ever since he said that, scene is of the
same mindset that's always been Okay, I can do that.

Speaker 1 (29:41):
I interviewed me today and they were super excited, So
I have some questions from them, but I remember so.
I had an incident with Kobe in two thousand and
nine where I faked the ball in his face and
the yeah, fucking went crazy. My twins got to start
traveling with me after that because they got become a
little bit older and I had to use a rest
kind of example to let them know what it was. So,

(30:03):
as I told you before, my job was always to
guard the best player. And the twins would come to
the games like, Dad, why do they blew you when
they announced your name in the starting lineup? And I'm thinking, like,
all right, how do I explain this to six year olds?
And I'm like, well, you know, daddy has to guard
the best player of it, so that's like Coole Colgan
and then Daddy's the undertaker. Yeah, and like, but you
don't wear black. I was like, yeah, I know, but
that's my uniform is a basketball. Yeah. Okay, So they

(30:27):
like you, they just don't like the job you're doing
them exactly.

Speaker 2 (30:31):
Well, you were the heel.

Speaker 1 (30:32):
Yeah you had to be.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
You had to be everybody's heal. But there's did you
feel there was a following for you as well?

Speaker 1 (30:40):
It was split because yeah, it's when I became the
bad guy. It kind of hurt my feelings because I
felt like, damn, I'm not a bad guy. But then
once I became once I got ahold of that and
embraced it. I was the villain. I was great with
being that villain that you needed.

Speaker 2 (30:54):
Well, I think too, when you're so good at it
and you're at the level you were, it's not a
bad guy in a what we would call in the
wrestling business station in the wrestling business we call like
a chicken shit heel that's not as good as the
type of heel perhaps a Rick Flair was so the
type of you even mentioned the Undertaker one that nine

(31:16):
times out of ten might be winning this thing. Actually,
you know, there's a consistency to it to the point
where you stay that long enough, you find yourself a
good guy. Yeah, you stay that long enough, you find
this is this disruptor, this individual, and and you end
up playing with some of the guys that you used
to have to guard and things like that.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
You know, well, that was the thing not to cut
you off. Literally. That next season, Kobe recruited me to
the Lakers. Yes, so we got into it. We fought,
and now we're teammates like, oh shit, maybe he's not
that bad after it.

Speaker 2 (31:42):
No, you weren't bad at all. Is if we're gonna
we need we need it right, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (31:47):
Heel versus babyface. You've done both in your career. Explain
the nuances that are held in each of those spaces.

Speaker 2 (31:55):
Gosh, it's a today, It's it's easier to be heel.
I suppose you know, traditionally a heel is gonna lead
the match. This is the bad guy. They're gonna feel
the crowd. Hopefully they're educated enough to know, you know,
their connection with them when they want you to get up,
when they want you to not yet you know, in
terms of then this comeback comes whatever. Even with that said,

(32:19):
it's a little easier to be disliked today, whereas in
twenty twenty five now or in the last five years
or so, baby faces were essentially an endangered species because
something about doing the right thing wasn't as cool as
it used to be. You know, the eighties are one thing.

(32:42):
You know, Bob Ackland was amazing and beloved by fans,
but that type of kind of goodie two shoes virtuous
style wasn't the thing that was on. You know, we
got Breaking Bad on TV, you got Game of Thrones.
There's a different type of hero. But something opened up
in the wrestling space where I don't know if it's

(33:03):
virtuous or if it's goody two shoes or whatever it
may be, but something open up in the wrestling space
where good guys have become a thing again. And I
don't think it's about being virtuous as much as about
being authentic. You know, Jay Uso is one of the
most popular wrestlers on the planet. Jay's done some diabolical stuff.

(33:24):
I've been so lucky I got a great following with
our young audience. I've done some terrible stuff I would
hate if they looked up, but when they see me,
they are one hundred percent sure that is authentically who
I am authentically, and I think that's been the key
to being a good guy. I also think it's more challenging.
We're at this point where the longer that it goes

(33:48):
for me, the less I'm able to turn to this nefarious,
dmon bad guy because so much has happened that there's
a core audience now that won't go. And we actually
saw this with John Cena recently. I admired him taking
the challenge and loved him going forward the idea of

(34:09):
being a bad guy at the end. But you've got
decades of equity built with them. All that's probably gonna
happen is no, we're gonna stay with you. We don't
agree with a lot of these where we're staying with you,
which is in fun in its own way because it
creates a hell of an acoustic in the live crowd.
But he'll babyface is really funny to determine if you

(34:34):
were looking at a sheet our roster. A lot of
guys who look like heels might be babyfaces. A lot
of guys who look like babyfaces might be the heels.
Same with the girls. It's really our audience is gonna
make the choice.

Speaker 1 (34:47):
We spoke to the wear and tear and off came
before we started, what it was like when you first
came in and how much you wrestled, and then what
it's like now. Can you break that down to.

Speaker 2 (35:00):
Yeah, I mean live events today, I wouldn't be able
to do like today because we'd be in Omaha, Nebraska
and wed you know, you do your Saturday live event,
your Sunday live event. Perhaps you do Monday night roll
your home, you know, Tuesday, Wednesday hit back on the road, Thursday,
you do Friday Night SmackDown. It was you were home
two and a half to three days a week and

(35:20):
you were wrestling. But those live events were wrestling matches,
so it went twofold. You could really get banged up
and hurt yourself, or you built up a bit of
a rhythm and a it's like dancing almost. You got
to rep out of it where it only advanced your
skill and at one point in your career they could

(35:41):
be hurting you like crazy, and at another point in
your career you could absolutely need them. I will, and
my man from Talent Relations is here had said, don't
say it out loud, but I will. I loved the
days we were wrestling on right, Oh my gosh.

Speaker 1 (35:55):
So give me an example loving.

Speaker 2 (35:56):
I want it back in a year.

Speaker 1 (35:58):
In a year, back in the day, how many days
out of the year would you be wrestling?

Speaker 2 (36:01):
I mean, so what is that? It would be two
hundred and something dates sixty Yeah, two dates, and now
we're at one hundred and twenty ish.

Speaker 1 (36:09):
So you guys got a little bit of load management now.

Speaker 2 (36:11):
Oh again, like credit to the new too new management
at w TOB with Triple H and Nick con it's
far healthy. But I came up in the system where
you're always wrestling, So I look at it and don't
That's how I knew you would get good at it.
That's so we've got to figure out how else.

Speaker 1 (36:28):
Can we do that. I love that parallel because I
came from an era in the NBA. Obviously it's a
heavy load. Guys are making a ton of money now
and it's load management up. But I came up in
an era where we went through the entire training camp,
played the entire preseason. It was an honor to play
eighty two games, and we wanted to play every single
playoff game, right. That was like, that's how we came
up in the game. So I miss you know, I

(36:49):
look at it from a standpoint of it if I'm
going to a wrestling event or if I'm going to
a basketball game, like I want to see the best
players out there every single time. Yeah, I mean, because
it's how expensive it is and all the other you're
taking a whole family. So it's interesting that the similar
parallels in wrestling. You know, like you miss the old
school grind. We're out that motherfucker two hundred days a
year and we're getting it done. But to your point,

(37:11):
that's how you felt like you got better and that's
how you felt those reps got everyone else better.

Speaker 2 (37:15):
Oh my gosh, it's you got a rhythm with your
your dancing partner. And you said load management. I don't
know if I've heard it, it's worded that way.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
I hate that.

Speaker 2 (37:26):
I like all there's all these new terms load management.
But man, oh man, I'm getting in so much trouble
with my peers. But these wrestling companies are banning so
much money. Now get up and then like the grind
is a negative? Now what are you talking about. You
get to go to a town on Saturday that may

(37:47):
not normally see you, and you get to see families
and you get to have a moment with them, and
you get to be their escape, you get to be
their hope. Then you go Sunday you do it all
over again Monday. You've got a good idea, you've been
on the road, your mind has been tuned in a
wrestling You've had a good idea, how to do this promo,
how to do this match. It's just I miss it,
but I do. I credit too. Ever figures out with

(38:09):
load management, whoever figures out how we improve, and I'm
seeing it. Dom Mysterio is probably my favorite example. Don
Masterio does not have the amount of live events that
we used to have, although he's working multiple companies for
WW at the moment, special special talent. He's somebody that's
often cited internally. I don't think I'm giving anything away

(38:32):
here as somebody who's gonna be a future of WWE.
He's one of the ones that when it said, I
believe it, like I think I'm going to come to
a WW show in fifteen years and pay money to
see and it will probably be Dom Masterio on the
top of the car because he's figuring out how to
do it. So whatever he's got, yeah, ok, yeah, but
you never know. He's tall, he's got like you never like,

(38:56):
you know, by the work in like the Hurre Editarry
passion that Ray has. He has raised, you know, the
greatest sutra door of all time with respect to Santo,
I think he really is the greatest to ever do it.
Dom is special. There's there's a few that I see
on that list, and that one for sure. I don't
want to be overly confident, and you know, but I

(39:18):
certainly believe it. He's somebody I'm gonna go pay to
see at an event in fifteen years.

Speaker 1 (39:22):
Well, I mean, I feel like you obviously have the
respect of what it is, but you miss how it was. Yeah,
you know, I mean it's the same thing. I'm not
gonna be one of these old dudes and shut your
old ass up complaining how it used to be. But
like there is some some some you know, there is
some nostalgia and how the grind used to be done,
for sure.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
And I remember something one time my dad asked. Somebody
asked my dad, what which is harder, wrestling seven days
a week or what they do now in TV wrestling.
At the time, we were wrestling maybe three days a week.
And he actually surprised everybody with an answer. He said,
today is harder because high definition television, every everything you do,

(39:59):
this conversation, we're having lifts forever. So you can't copy
and paste, you can't time, you can't steal a song,
layer it can put it on a T shirt because
there's somebody who's gonna find it. And so you like
they were getting a little getting away with things of
that nature, whereas today it's just the pressure is on.
And one of the cool things about and I don't
know if it's cool for a wrestler, but it's cool

(40:20):
for a fan. One of the cool things about today
and the lack of live events we have is when
you see two guys go at it in the ring,
that might be the first time they genuinely ever touch.
And I love about that is that those can be
a little stiff, those can be you know, like those
can be as real as real gets in a way,
and that's that's fun for an audience member.

Speaker 1 (40:41):
Walkers. I mean again as a as a longtime fan,
and I kind of fell off as an adult, and my
kids brought me back in your guys' ecosystem. Walk me
through a quote unquote match snight or a game day,
Like what is your day? Like, when do you have
to get there? How do you prepare? Do you work
with your partner? Or like how does that work? You know?

Speaker 2 (40:59):
You see, we got a good, good team here. I
always have a schedule for everything in the day, and
I try to balance out from a priority standpoint. WW
has a lot of things, partners, backstage tours, merchandise is
a massive component of WW today, especially with our partnership
with Fanatics. You're looking at a stack of three hundred

(41:20):
to five hundred. If you're a top man or woman
of eight x tens, they got to be signed autograph
weight belts. There's also various you know, community partnerships like
Make a Wish and those are we try to give.
Those are absolute one percent all and you've got to
do that. You've got to also while doing all of this,

(41:43):
have that hydration mix in the shaker. Make sure your
gear is laid out on you in your locker room
or on the bus. Uh, you've got to have the
top notch again HD television, the top notch gear in
the game, which is a lot based on wrestlers. What
would I say their preference? Triple Ah doesn't tell me

(42:03):
how the American Nightmare looks. I've that's my character. He
gives it a spotlight, he gives it a highlight. He
might give me a note. But a lot of the
characters seeing a great deal of the ones that are
popular with the crowd come from us. And you've got
to have everything ready again to steal the feed. So
it's just a mind going type thing all day and

(42:24):
with maybe you're wrestling somebody you've never touched before, you're
working against somebody like a Drew mcandire's is this giant
Scottish just ball of muscle that you know is going
to throw you around and it's going to be rather
aggressive evening. You can't take any risk. You've got to
The last thing you want to be is that wrestler
who's taping his wrist up while his music is hitting

(42:45):
in Gorilla And no, I like to be very, very prepared.
I don't like to run it tight at all. So
it's just a matter of if you've got a checklist
and I always have a little old school yellow legal
pad with everything that's supposed to get done in a day.
And they're silly thing, shave your upper body like there's
still a thing you know, like they're just but they're
they're but you if you don't by the time that

(43:08):
bell rings and you can hear that crowd coming into
their seats and they're wooing and they're doing all that,
you want to know, you did everything right. You're prepared.
And I'll tell you something because I'm I feel like
I've circled around your answer because every day is different.
But I'll tell you something that really helps at WW
helps you prepare is we have our own set of
coaches that we call producers who help us with our matches.

(43:32):
You've got a legendary person like Michael Freebird Hayes, who's
just if you can get past the wild enigma and
unbelievable charisma and swag that Michael's got and whatever outfit
he has on for that day, he's he is a
super genius, as we call in the industry when it
comes to Hey, I think the crowd may be here

(43:52):
by the time you go out there. You got to
give him this. You have mister Paul Hayman, you have
Triple h. You got a young guy like Bobby rue
d Abyss, Chris Park, these producers, Molly Holly, all these
producers have experienced have a wrestling IQ. If we didn't
have them, WW would not be as hot as is
right now. That producer's squad.

Speaker 1 (44:13):
Now, is that new to the game. Has it always
been that way or is it kind of amped up
as you guys as the sport has continued to reach
its peak.

Speaker 2 (44:20):
I think it's amped up. It's always been part of
the game, but it might have been a lot less
when it was Chief j Strongbow just telling you and I, Hey,
he's gonna give you the leg drop at the end.
You know, all right, cool, we'll figure the rest out.
You now have a lot. And maybe that's the answer
to my question earlier, is how we improve is to

(44:41):
have those minds in the business. I love when arn
Anderson's around. I love you, Jesse the body Ventterra will
talk your head till it explodes. But when he's around,
I know you're getting some of the greatest information ever.
And I remember one hundred years ago saying Triple h saying,
all the books are there, guys. If you don't go
in there, grab a book and open it up, that's

(45:03):
your fault. And really, you know NXT right now, our
developmental system is taught by probably the greatest bell the
bell wrestler ever in that being Sean Michaels. If you're
not picking this up, you know, And maybe that's again
I feel like I'm answering my own question throughout this conversation.

Speaker 1 (45:18):
I like it.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
Maybe that's the difference between wrestling four days a week
is having those super genius type individuals around to walk
you through what you did wrong, walk you through what
you can do further. Undertakers now super involved with a
Triple AR partner which is crazy because that's Luca Libre,
but he knows. Yeah, live crowds are live crowds, So
to have them cheat code, Yeah, that's what it is.

(45:40):
It's a cheat code.

Speaker 1 (45:41):
Yeah, playing and performing through pain. You had a legendary
picture that we're going to pull up right here. It's gross.
You toy your peck muscle right there. Yeah, talk to us.
I mean, I'm someone and again, football is crazy basketball.
I've done the tourt ale shots where I've torn something
in my shoulder, having an able to practice and I
take this shot, I'm superhuman for four hours and then

(46:01):
I'm back to horrible pain. You being able to perform
through pain and not allow it to affect your mental
and still go out there and put on performance. What
are some of the stuff that you guys have to do,
in particular with this injury right here, that you had
to do to get your mind in the right place
to be able to make it through this night?

Speaker 2 (46:19):
This is really and this is what a brutal picture
this is.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
Uh, But that's to me, like as a fan, that's
like that's a You're a fucking warrior, you know what
I mean? For you to be able to play or
perform through something like that. You know, obviously the admiration
goes through the roof, but it's it's that's not the
only time you've been hurt. There's a number of times
where you had to get through it.

Speaker 2 (46:37):
This was there was really no element of preparation because
I'll be honest, I didn't think I would be able
to wrestle, And a lot of me being able to
wrestle is maybe at the time I was scary enough,
or intimidating enough, or forceful enough with everyone I spoke
to from a office level, who's in charge of me

(47:01):
going out there and the world seeing that my pectendon
is removed from the bone and now is filled with blood.
I just wasn't allowing the conversation to get to a
place where I wasn't wrestling. We were the main event.
Peacock had seen a big surge in subs for Hell
in the Cell, and I'd also not been the main
event before I'd come back to wrestle Mania. I wrestled

(47:23):
Seth Rollins Amazing, wrestled mcnick again the next month of Backlash.
So we've done too. Now we're the main event and
we're finishing it off in Hell in the Cell, which
is one of wrestling's best creations, and we're the main
event all statering in Chicago, which has not always been
a market that liked me. It's a real pro punk market,
and they never they liked me, but I always had

(47:44):
to earn them over. I just couldn't leave them hanging.
There was nothing else that could have been the main event.
I don't mean that with any braggadosha, just there wasn't.
So I hid. Really was my preparation, you know. The
night before one doctor looked at it. My own physician said, well,
it can't get any worse because it was torn. I
had strengthened my fingers and things of that nature. But

(48:06):
WW is also very adamant about there's no substance abuse
in this company anymore. None in the years the eighties
are over. We've got to be healthy, We've got to
be clean. So people ask all the time if I
had any like pain medication or anything of that nature.
I had for baby aspirins, really because they didn't even
have regular ad bill. Now they read it. I had

(48:27):
regular ad bill, I would have had it, but they
had that baby aspirin. I was for this match.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
I was fine.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
Until a couple minutes in, and then I remember at
the time being told, Hey, if you're in pain, we
are going to stop it. There's nothing to prove here.
If you're in pain, we are going to stop it.
And my thought was, how would you know, I'm already
were pretending to be in pain, Like, what level of
pain are you gonna go on? That's right? So I'm

(48:57):
walking this tightrope the whole match, not sure if they're
just gonna ring the bell, But I just Seth was
the perfect person to be in there with me. Seth Rollins,
And the crazy thing about this photo is Seth Rollins
and I recently wrestled at Crown Jewel and Seth finally
beat me. I'd beat him three times before, nobody had
sweeped him like that, but he tore his I don't

(49:20):
know he tore I want to say his rotator cuff is.
We don't have an actual answer on what's but Seth,
I know, has gone under the knife and got surgery,
so at this point real not real. However, you look
at the industry. Him and I aren't good for each other.
We're not We don't need to wrestle ever, again, He's lost.
He's lost his shoulder. That was the first major injury

(49:42):
I ever had. But I was glad to be in
the ring with him that night.

Speaker 1 (49:47):
It was special. I mean, what is it? Obviously you
hear about substance abuse in all leagues, all entertainment facets,
and obviously all leagues have tried to change it, Like
what do you guy? You guys beat the shit out
of your body? What do you out of outside of
just trying to take care of it? Like, what do
you guys do to maintain.

Speaker 2 (50:04):
I think now it again load management, which is now
my favorite term. Ww's really good about Hey, such and
such banged up?

Speaker 1 (50:14):
It's not.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
We don't power through anymore. That might have been the
very last example of let's power through. We really the show.
We create the show so we can navigate around things
like that and give somebody a break if they need it.
You just have more athlete conscious people today. You know,
you've got people who are have amino shakes. You've got
people who are I started doing pilates about a year ago,

(50:38):
because your workout has to change as you get past
thirty five. Right, this peck injury came from me being
a dumb ass and trying to binge three point fifteen
with no warm up and open toad sandals. Oh right, dude,
took it off the bar. Took it off the bar,
bro open toad sandals, open cup of coffee, what like,

(50:59):
no knowledge of a body of athleticism of so so
we now, I feel like, have such a good crew. Larry,
who's our head trainer, We have just a good crew
of athlete minded people. And this is why it has
to be this way. Modern wrestling is insanely fast, with
an insane amount of rotations, flips, high spots, whatever you

(51:19):
want to call them. It's not getting any slower. It's
only going to get more dangerous and more wild. So
if we're not doing it safely, we're gonna kill our
own business. So you find a lot more people. It's
not like the golden eighties, whereas like guy smoking a
cigarette douce does ten pushups and goes out there and
tears the house down. It's not that I kind of

(51:39):
wish that'd be fun. It's a science now, yeah, it's
a whole science, and we're just I feel like we've
been provided proper education. I don't mean to I don't
want to kiss his butt further, but I will. But
one thing that really helps is Triple H being in
charge because he was an athlete in there who got hurt,
who's been there and had to bring himself back into
the game. So when you're around other people like that,

(52:00):
you see it and you know it. And now no
one's coming back early. There's no one like, hey, they
gave me seven months, but I'll be back in four. No, no,
you'll be back in seven and you'll be good.

Speaker 1 (52:09):
We'll be waiting for you.

Speaker 2 (52:10):
Yeah, we'll be waiting. It will be here when you
come back.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
So it's just a lot more athlete minded and smart
businessmen and.

Speaker 1 (52:18):
Women balancing work life and being a father. I mean,
we're thankful to get a little three and a half
month break in our NBA seasons. I was someone who
personally walked away from the game after fourteen nearly fifteen years,
and was still paid for another two years. I still
had two years on my deal because I felt like
I was missing time with my kids. You're a father
of two beautiful young girls and a newborn right the

(52:39):
newborn is eight weeks and a four year old daughter.
What is the balance like and how do you make
time for your kids and your family.

Speaker 2 (52:47):
I remember hearing somebody saying there really is no such
thing as the balance. You either are doing one or
you're doing the other. I have really tried everything I
can to bring it together, and a lot of times
that's expensive. I know that's a silly thing though, but
that's but I don't mind going in on the PJ
that gets me home at three in the morning versus

(53:09):
showing up at five pm the next day. I just
try to be there at the breakfast table for my
oldest daughter, which is Liberty, because that's what she expects.
She does understand that I go away for SmackDown is
what she refers to everything, as you know. So but Leilani,
my newborn. I just always try to find the moments,

(53:30):
and a lot of it can be. We're lucky as
wrestlers that we get to travel the world and wrestle everywhere.
This way the company is now, you can make it
so the family comes with, oh really, this isn't an era.
You know, a lot of wrestlers almost did it.

Speaker 1 (53:45):
Man.

Speaker 2 (53:45):
I've really gone in on the eighties today and I
shouldn't have, but like they almost did it. In spite
of the fact that they had a family versus the
idea that they do it for their family. You know,
my girls, I got photos with them at with Liberty
at SummerSlam, and and she knows the backstage area she's
gone to still photos, she's taken some photos before she's

(54:06):
she's We've tried to bring her into the mix, because
that's the only way to do it. You know, you
got to You got guys who've got tour buses now,
and those are many homes, so you can have your life,
you know, and and that's that's special. But it certainly
I think you hit a point. You said something earlier
that I'm thinking, Yeah, he's not wrong. You get to

(54:28):
a point where there's only so much. You can only
go so long. And I think I know my number
where I'd like to get with this. And and I
was lucky that my dad, who I thought was the
best dad ever, he was out of the game. He
was in it as a producer and as a creator,
pop in here as kind of an old man wrestler
every now and then, but he was out of the game.

(54:49):
So he was number one dad at every game. He
coached our football team. He's known in Cobb County as
coach more than the American dream, like that's what he was.
I I'd like to make it by the time they hit
that age that I'm not I'm not going that often
or I can't really walk around that much. And and

(55:10):
that's we're getting We're getting closer. What I'd say is
probably my last contract with ww or the next contract
I signed probably be my last and and finish finish
my days with w w E. It's the house that
built me, and it's the house that brought me back
and put me in this wonderful, wonderful position. But yeah,
I I I don't know. It's very very hard to balance.

(55:33):
It certainly is you've got to but when you're in it,
you gotta be in it. Arn Anderson, I remember him
telling me when you came off, when you come off
the road, He's like, don't take a nap. When you
come off the road and you show up at that house,
you're on, You're on. And I love that challenge. Now
two little ones, though, it's a little different. So uh,

(55:53):
I'm learning as we go again. Eight weeks so we're
in the phase of all best laid plans, whatever scale,
all the help you could get still. It's coming at
you from all angles, you know.

Speaker 1 (56:04):
So.

Speaker 2 (56:04):
But I got right back in it, man, I got
right back in. I had changed a few diapers, it
had been a minute, and then like I got back
right away.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
I was like right like I was.

Speaker 2 (56:14):
I was so excited. Yeah, all these people taking all
their time and like they're they got like the Aqua
Ford and something like no, yeah, yeah I got her, Yeah,
I got her her two girls too.

Speaker 1 (56:26):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (56:26):
I don't know girl dad, yeah, real the girl Dad's
like a thing in wrestling, and I don't.

Speaker 1 (56:31):
I don't.

Speaker 2 (56:31):
I think I have unrealistic expectations for like I just
assume they're going to live with me forever, and then
it ain't, you know. And then I'm thinking, here's what
I can do to really screw that guy up. Set
set the bar so high.

Speaker 1 (56:48):
Come on, man, my dad's been doing this ship. What
are you talking about?

Speaker 2 (56:51):
Yeah, set the bar so high that their daddy issues
are actually that I'm just always there. Yeah, their daddy's standards.

Speaker 1 (56:57):
Yeah, I want to take you back real, QUI before
we get out of your dad. Late Great Dusty Rhodes
rest in peace. But we found some footage of him hooping'
popska hoop a little bit.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
Oh dude, dude, I know the footage.

Speaker 1 (57:10):
Let's let's watch this clip that I know the footage.
He was out there working big body jumpers. Look at
his outfit holex S Luger and Sting. This is amazing,
So explain what this was.

Speaker 2 (57:25):
This is I believe the NWA versus the Charlotte Police.
My dad was also the boss of the company. He
was the executive producer. There's Barry Wyndham on the free
throw line. He gave a speech before that has been
described by I want to say Sting as not even
a pep talk. He said, if we lose to these guys,
you're fired. So I I have. My legacy of basketball

(57:51):
is complicated my my dad. I think his favorite sport
was basketball, and my mom has this one picture of
him going up for a layup and like talks about
how sexy his legs were. He's like a big, robust man.

Speaker 1 (58:07):
So it's like not the area you're like, you.

Speaker 2 (58:09):
Know, but he loved basketball. We always had a hoop
at all our houses and if we had moved or
if the one was you'd be hearing him out there
sending up in the morning. I played horse with my
dad every day from fifth grade to sophomore year in
high school. I never ever beat my dad ever, ever,

(58:30):
And then I furthered my shame because he loved basketball,
loved it, and he was very much of the Like
something that really motivated him was the year bird plays
the the shoot around and doesn't take his jumper off,
you know the one.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
Yeah, yeah, he goes and talks shit, doesn't take his
warm up off and still wins it.

Speaker 2 (58:49):
Yeah. He would treat that as if it was essentially
like a great story in sports, Like that's that's motivating
more than like the miracle on ice that he just
he loved. He loved basketball, and I thought I was.
I didn't get any of the skills, obviously, but fanatics

(59:10):
fest if you want to see reverse of that footage,
fanatics veest. God bless him. They did this thing where
they got all of us playing different events, and I
was not great at any of the events. I was also,
you're doing the signings and you're doing the photo ops.
If we ever do it again, we're gonna split the
days so I can give it my time. But I
did a full eye shot. I don't know twenty baskets.

(59:32):
I didn't make one, and I'm in a three piece suit,
but that's not even the excuse. Like I didn't even
make one. The DJ there on the floor is like,
all right, get it up for Cody. Here you go,
come on, man, get him, get it up. I was
just completely unathletic. My legs didn't look like I even
know how to jump. You don't know how to human
a little bit. Yeah, But the old man loved, loved basketball,

(59:53):
and he honestly could play. He used to do all
kinds of pickup games. You go to these buildings and
they'd be like kids playing in the gym him, and
the next thing you know, he'd be over there playing
with him. He just he just loved it that. I
loved that that footage exists because he was extremely athletic
for a big, robust dude, and that is what his
whole gimmick and wrestling was. People will see like a

(01:00:15):
fat wrestler today and say something like, oh, he's like
Dusty Rhodes, and I want to just no, no. Dusty
Rhodes looked away and then worked away, and the same thing.
Dusty Roads looked away and then he talked away. He
just had a just lightning and I don't know what
it was. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
Man, we're coming down the home stretch. I'm gonna ask you.
I want to throw the questions that my son's had
at you. Yeah, a question, Yeah, those are them. I said,
I'm interviewing Cody Rose. What you guys would you guys
like about him? He's like, you're your guests are so tough?
Ask him, Carter said, ask him personality wise? How did
you like playing two different people from Stardust to Cody Rose? Yeah? Yeah,

(01:00:57):
what was that like?

Speaker 2 (01:00:58):
Well, So at the beginning of start Us, I looked
at it as real. This was in the era of
you're not getting a lot of playing time, but they
want you to do something special with this character. You're
gonna be with your brother Golddust. So I looked at
it as a challenge to maximize, to really kind of
make chicken salad out of chicken shit essentially, like to

(01:01:19):
that's always a big thing in wrestling. Take something that's
a little silly and then you blow it out. El
Grande Americano is a guy we got right now who
is doing this exact thing. He's taken something that could
have been a death sentence for another wrestler and is
just making it special. And they don't mean it to
be a death sentence, but they mean it to be
a challenge. And at the beginning of start Us, I thought,

(01:01:41):
this is a great challenge. And I've answered the challenge.
We're selling these gloves. I'm learning how to do the paint.
I can be so ridiculous. My promos have almost moved
into this realm where there's a British accent to it.
At the it's just gone so ridiculous. All this sci
fi knowledge and trek babble that I knew corporate into

(01:02:02):
this character. But I also gave it a shelf life
of about six months, so over a year. In was
the lowest of low as a wrestler. And people will
always send me pictures of me as like them would
start Us, like remember we met, and I always tell
them that's human rock Bo. That's like because it's a
sad clown. I was always in full gimmick. And one

(01:02:23):
of the reasons I was always in full gimmick I
was embarrassed. I didn't want to be half Cody and
half starterst. I hated the idea. I just couldn't get
out of the blocks on it. So in the beginning
I accepted the challenge and then at a certain point
I got very lost, lost my gut instincts. This was
all led to me leaving. So I'm so grateful for

(01:02:43):
start Us, so grateful for the idea that I got
to play be ridiculous. And also I was shielded. You
know today I'm not shielded. I will if I was
to run to Anaheim right now to do raw, I'd
come out just like this. That's who I am, that's
my life. Everys been out in the open since I
came back on. I lived my story just on television.

(01:03:05):
For them that time was just ridiculous. You were able
to be a character and have fun and be covered,
be mass so that it had its benefits. But also,
you know, I'm trying to relate it to to your
world where you it was beneath me, it was beneath me,
But then even me saying it was beneath me, that

(01:03:26):
was beneath me. It was just this whole conundrum, this
whole couldn't get out of the blox. And ultimately that's
why I said see you bye.

Speaker 1 (01:03:34):
So it's almost like you left this kind of guy
guy coming off the bench, and you came back as
a superstar.

Speaker 2 (01:03:39):
Literally, I when I left and told people I'm gonna
do something, I'm gonna make it. The amount of wonderful
posts that are still out there that I love them
for this that thought. No, not maybe a comeback, but
not even close to what we've done. That's a beautiful thing.
I mean, the highest I hate being inside baseball here,

(01:04:01):
but the highest three matches in WW history in terms
of your box office.

Speaker 1 (01:04:07):
Uh.

Speaker 2 (01:04:08):
The other name on the card was also start us.
Basically that's a wild concept. Wild and I don't take
it for granted, and I don't mean to be to
brag on it, but that is wild. And some fans
I don't think can can even see past that, like
this is we're putting it in on him.

Speaker 1 (01:04:24):
I guess you know, yeah, hey, it works all right.
This is my other son who was your favorite wrestler
that the work you got the chance to work with.
Thus far ah Man.

Speaker 2 (01:04:32):
I changed my answer a lot, uh, just to be
like almost manic in my interviews where they're like, this
guy's full of shit. But I'll tell you one that's
been like sticking out to me. A lot of I
named a lot of the luminary figures like like mister
Hayman and Michael Hayes. But wrestler in the ring that
I really enjoy working with, I mean John obviously Jim,

(01:04:55):
but I'm trying to think of something that I'll tell you.
One that I learned a lot from in a very
very short amount of time was Jake Roberts Jake to Stabs.
I learned a lot from him in just a single
promo and a single promo, I learned how a guy
can basically cut your legs. But if you're strong enough
as a character, you can stand to that. But if

(01:05:17):
you weren't, he was going to move past you. The
real sign of what we do, the competition on who
gets to the top, that's all very very real. Just
the other parts of it are not. And I learned
a great deal from working with him. I don't share
that with him enough because it was just one night
that we had this interview and I thought I just
got a masterclass, and had I not had my feet

(01:05:39):
planet in this ground, this guy would have just eaten
me up and moved on. But he was one that
I thought was really special.

Speaker 1 (01:05:45):
Shout out as an Carter you got got some good questions,
good answers. All right, quick hitters, real quick name your
wwe Mount Rushmore.

Speaker 2 (01:05:54):
That is not a quick hitter. That is like so hey,
but I'll be I wonder if I can qualify it
further because my Mount Rushmore. If anyone watches my series
of interviews, they often think I just have told a
different story each time. My Mount Rushmore. I think a
lot of it has to do with so. I was

(01:06:15):
talking with my buddy, who's another wrestler, this morning, and
I was saying that your legacy a lot of times
depends on your last chapter and not always your active chapter.
Did you offer anything after you left? So I put
my dad on Mount Rushmore because his final chapter in
the business is hilarious. Half the next guys, including Roman
and Seth, were under his tutelage. War Games is still

(01:06:37):
a show that we do to this day. The Road's
name is still on in the business and currently has
the game's number one title. He just had an unreal
from the grave chapter. He threw another jumper from you know,
so he's on there Mount Rushmore Wise. I think the
rock is on there Mount Rushmore Wise. He came back

(01:06:58):
to a very tumultuous ww uh a year or so
ago and decided, no, I'm not gonna deal with that.
I'm in instead going to create a new character, even
though I'm already one of the greatest characters ever, that
being the Final Boss. And we've even we've just scratched
the surface on the Final Boss, like there's something incredibly
special there. So the rock is on my Mount Rushmore again,

(01:07:19):
final you know chapters that you still are. I would
put Triple H on there because he's put the entire
ww on his back, and if the guy with the
title or the girl with the title can't carry the load,
he's there, even as a executive, carrying the load and
looking to expand our industry. So then you've got all right,
you got Dusty, you got Rock, you got Triple H.

(01:07:40):
We got four heads. I found this out sadly on
my bus the other day. There's not five on Mount Rushmore.
Oh gosh, I want to.

Speaker 1 (01:07:47):
You know, you can throw too if you need to
slide too more.

Speaker 2 (01:07:50):
No, now, I gosh, let's see. Oh he was just
talking about him. We got to put the five knuckle shuckle.
We gotta put John on there. Seeing on there because
again last chapter. If you're a young wrestler and you
go up to John at his final show in DC
on Saturday Nights made them and say, hey, John, I
want to be a wrestler. He's gonna give you thirty

(01:08:11):
minutes plus of his time. That's just an insane bandwidth.
Like my nephews walked up to them and they got
the greatest lesson they've ever got in their life. And
he didn't need to do that. Hello is good. You
shook his hand, you know, move on, No man, He's
just giving and he'll go down as the hardest working
superstar ever. So that's a great four headed mount Rushmore.

(01:08:33):
There's four heads.

Speaker 1 (01:08:35):
Give me a few matches that you feel like help
shape your journey in career.

Speaker 2 (01:08:40):
My favorite match I used to grow up watching as
a child. And if I ever get like whiskey drunk,
who's ever with me? I'll be like, you gotta check
this out? Is it's not even good? It's the best part.
It's a clash of the champions. I think it's eighty
eight and the Night Center in Miami. It's Tolly Blancher
and Arn Anderson versus Dusty Rhods and Sting and why

(01:09:01):
I always want them to watch his matches because Sting
is starting to catch with the kids. You see if
the kids have their face painted in the crowd. But
it's Florida. Still, it's Miami. And when they tagged us
the oh my gosh, and he knew it. So you
can feel the sin to like not yet not, you
know what I'm saying, like this, it's and they they
they that was the right thing to do though, because

(01:09:22):
they were building Sting up, and that's the rub as
we call it. So that one's incredibly special for me.
I'm a hardcore believer in WrestleMania twelve, which is Brett
Hart versus Sean Michaels an hour plus. You hear all
these people today say it's not what it used to be.
Not They wrestled for sixty minutes with no falls. So
I'm a diehard Sean Michaels fan thinking he didn't win

(01:09:43):
it again, he didn't win it again, and then you know,
Gorilla comes out. They're gonna go fifteen extra minutes, they go,
and he wins the championship and the boyhood dreams Sean
Michaels becomes champ, legendary, legendary. I remember my dad watching
me like sit right there watching it, and he knew
he could out what they were running. He knew and
he could see how excited I was. So that one

(01:10:04):
shaped me greatly. And then my favorite match I was
ever involved with is Wrestlmania thirty nine and so far
against the Roman Reigns. Because stadiums, the sound goes up,
so you can't always hear it until you watch it
back on TV. But I felt like I literally could
like feel everyone's heartbeat. I was just connected with them

(01:10:25):
that night. Now almost get emotional thinking about it, because
all this stuff that you talk about backstage, Oh they're
gonna go like this and they're gonna do this, it's
not always that when you get out there and man,
it was there plus wow, and it just it just
shaped me in a way that I thought. It was
the first time in my entire career I had a
complete match. I know that's a crazy concept because I

(01:10:46):
was maybe thirty eight at the time, but that's when
I had a complete match. I'm a slow, slow learner,
and that was special to me.

Speaker 1 (01:10:53):
Producer Nate was there. He's shaking his head over their
sweat and just reminiscent there yeah, I took my dad.

Speaker 2 (01:10:59):
Yeah, we were there both nights. No, just just rough
night for a Cody family.

Speaker 1 (01:11:03):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:11:06):
Also they just set I sat in the rings. I
didn't know what to go, where to go, and Roman
and left. So there's just that sad shot of me
just on my butt, like I don't know. I'm grateful
for it, but.

Speaker 1 (01:11:19):
Oh, tough night, tough night. The Paul brothers have made
names for themselves from YouTube stars to one is boxing
now he's won fighting Jamonte Davis, and then Logan in
the WWE. What do you think about Logan and what
he's been able to do so far.

Speaker 2 (01:11:32):
I kind of want to turn on Logan because every
time I do an interview, you know how you do
you and you have to know this with the with
the pod going like it's going right now, basically you
get mini canceled and uncanceled on a weekly basis. For
something you say long form pod, you're gonna say something wrong.
Logan has so many people who don't like him, and
I think he's wonderful. He works super hard, he asked

(01:11:55):
the right questions. He's big, jack strong, unbelievably athletic, like
a little bit you know, arrogant. Sure, but you're in wrestling, man,
like this is in a timid world. Get out there
and get in there. But I always say that and
people are like, So what I'll say now is I
think Logan sucks. I think, with all that great, I

(01:12:18):
think it sucks. I want Jake, you know, like, uh
now they're those two are those two are sending the
world on five Absolutely, And I feel like, even you know,
Dana White, I've heard kind of I've seen him on
Logan's pod that there's a softening to them and not
just a softening of oh they're okay guys, they're really

(01:12:38):
smart businessmen.

Speaker 1 (01:12:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:12:41):
I'd like to know Jake a little bit more because
I really enjoy Logan. And here's something I like about Logan.
I hope he doesn't mind me sharing this. Logan doesn't
need necessarily to listen to everybody. Anytime I've ever told
them something about this and the match something, man, he's
all yours spun and really taking it in. And maybe

(01:13:02):
those are just private combos, but that's how I know, Okay,
he's he's going to go further. I think I think
Logan's a huge part of ww moving forward.

Speaker 1 (01:13:10):
I do So last question, WW heading back to Las
Vegas for WrestleMania forty two. Last year was record setting?
What can fans expect?

Speaker 2 (01:13:19):
Well? Last year at a record setting WrestleMania in Allegiant Stadium,
lovingly nicknamed the Death Star, I love me some Las Vegas.
I lost. So we'll go right off the cuff and
say you're coming to WrestleMania forty two. I will not be losing.

Speaker 1 (01:13:33):
I will not. That's up.

Speaker 2 (01:13:34):
I will not. I will not be losing. I think
wrestling fans got a huge kick out of Vegas if
they'd never made the trip over and seen just how
Vegas is done today. I think it will be the
best show ww's ever put on. There's a commercial it
might have aired by the time this pod makes it
out there that really kind of spells out how much

(01:13:56):
we want the fans to be part of this WrestleMania,
especially with our on location experiences. But we did a
wonderful job for two nights. This one will will top
anything that WrestleMania forty one did, and very much looking
forward to everyone coming over. The next WrestleMania we're doing
is in Saudi Arabia the year after that, so there's
also kind of this call to get here for this

(01:14:18):
Vegas one because we're off, we're overseas for the next one.
So I'm very much looking forward to one more go
in Vegas and it's simple wrestleminga forty two. Cody Rhoads
is not going to lose period this year. No gonna
first successful defense, Cody.

Speaker 1 (01:14:32):
We appreciate your time, Congratulations on all the success on
end out of the Ring. Your legendary run is yet
to be finalized. This is it's been a fun journey
to watch and continued success and man, best of luck.

Speaker 2 (01:14:48):
Thank you so much, thank you. I appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:50):
Man, I have a question. You've held the belt the
whole time. Can I feel it? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:14:59):
Yeah, you know the one I always bring, the one
that's actually from TV so it can get a little
beat up. But what they used to do is they
used to put your nameplate on it, but now they
put they put your logo on. Okay, yeah, so you
gotta have a good logo to really sell it real.

Speaker 1 (01:15:12):
Quick to everyone.

Speaker 2 (01:15:12):
Where they can find you at everywhere?

Speaker 1 (01:15:15):
Wait, everywhere? No where?

Speaker 2 (01:15:17):
Are the place you can find me at?

Speaker 1 (01:15:18):
Your show? YouTube?

Speaker 2 (01:15:19):
What do you want to talk about Thank you so much.
Netflix for Monday Night Raw USA for Friday Night SmackDown,
ESPN for all ww's major pls, and at Cody Rhoads
on X at American Nightmare, Cody on Instagram, and I'll
be there. I'm pretty active, get it. Thank you, appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:15:34):
Man, Thank you so much. Thank you. John Moran is
in the headlines again after a bizarre postgame interview on
Friday night. He was suspended by the team for conduct
detrimental to the team. Let's take a look at the clip.
What went wrong for you today? A Jo? Do you

(01:15:56):
feel like? I mean, it was anything you could do differently?
I guess regards they had a whole spill to him.

Speaker 2 (01:16:04):
So from the outside and that outsaid may be wrong,
but from outside it didn't look like you had your
usual energy tonight. Okay, you feel like you should play more?
Oh the coaching staff, what could have been done different
get a different outcome other than actionally?

Speaker 1 (01:16:24):
Coaching staff?

Speaker 2 (01:16:25):
Uh, according to they don't probably don't play me.

Speaker 1 (01:16:28):
Honestly, that's what basically a message was happter. So it's cool.

Speaker 2 (01:16:34):
The coaching staff message was that cool, We're good. You
didn't have anything physically wrong, just illness or anything.

Speaker 1 (01:16:40):
Okay, I'm fine, all right. This is a very interesting
I think cross roads are at with Jos's career and
we're gonna have a little time. I'm gonna run down
some stuff for you guys right now. But you never
want to speculate on what's going on behind the scenes.
Could you never really know actually being a former player,

(01:17:02):
But if I were to guess, this is a little
bit of a power struggle with the new head coach,
Thomas Cilia, first time NBA head coach, And I've played
for some great coaches, and one thing I know that
new coaches try to do is they have to establish
themselves in the locker room. Obviously, Taylor Jenkins being gone,

(01:17:22):
you know, he had a solid run there. There's a
little bit of ups and downs with him in the
locker room as well. But I think a new coach
has to set the foundation the presidents and earn guys
respect and figure out how to do it because it's
different these days. I know I've had coaches like Phil
Jackson who would cuss Kobe's ass out so he can
talk to everyone else as well. If he's going to

(01:17:42):
do it to Kobe. That means he could do it
to you. I know Stack has said that, you know,
Pop would cuss out Tim, so he can do it
to everyone else. So I think what this coach is
trying to do is you Jaw as an example, being
the best player on the team, if he can attack
him to possibly motivate him and help this team. That's
probably I'm guessing where this coach was going. But that's

(01:18:05):
still no excuse for the type of play the job.
Let us see the other night. You know, obviously everyone
has off nights eight points three for twelve, whatever that was.
I don't care about that. That shit's gonna happen. But just
the lack of effort, the lack of just not wanting
to be out there, the lack of almost like, you know,
you're wasting my time having me out here type energy,

(01:18:26):
that's something from a star player you can't have. I
think there's no excuse for that if you look at
other star players. We would never let another star player
slide like that, because no matter how messed up it
may be, going between you and the coach, you and
the team, what's going on in the locker room, your
personal life, the stars have to be stars at all times.
That's on both sides of the ball. I think John

(01:18:49):
needs a fresh start, and we're going to take a
look at a timeline of kind of you know, what's
going on of lately. But I think before he needs it,
before the fresh start happens, I think he really needs
to look at hisself the mirror, because we were ready
to hand this guy the keys to the league just
two and a half years ago. You know, someone who
was having in twenty seven, eight and seven, twenty seven,

(01:19:10):
seven and six around those numbers. One of the most
electrifying players we've ever seen come on the scene, an
All Star, so he was must watch TV, and year
by year that's gone down. Some of it's become because
of injury, which is which is only natural. Some of

(01:19:30):
it is because of the off court shit and the
one thing that we used to hear back in the days,
you never want your off court bullshit to be louder
than what you're doing on the court. When Jab was
at the top of his game, I'm not sure how
things were going in the locker room or if he
had tough, you know, situations within that organization because the
play was doing so so the play was doing all

(01:19:50):
the talking. But since then it's been just a decline
in games played. He's played three hundred and thirteen out
of four hundred, so it's about a sixty six sixty three.
Clip hasn't played over sixty five games since his rookie season. Again,
some of this is injury, some of this is suspension.
Jock currently is at twenty one and seven shooting shooting

(01:20:13):
percentage is at a career low. He's shooting fifteen percent
from the three point line. Again, this guy came in
the game electrified, and I think the one knock that
everyone had is how long will he be able to
play at this level at the rim. He's gone from
nearly shooting fifty percent at the rim to this season
only twenty eight. Again, that ground is hard, you get

(01:20:37):
fouled injuries, your body is a little different. And we
live in a game today where guys are making a
living shooting. And Joe was able to break the mold
because he didn't have to be forced to shoot. But
if he's not able to get to the rim at
will like he used to, his game is going to
have to develop. So I say all that to say,
I mean I think he's still great. I think he

(01:20:59):
has a lot of great miles left. But I also
think he needs to look at yourself in the mirror,
because I think he's let the outside noise distract and
and be louder than what's on the court. So we're
gonna go a little jog down memory lane and give
you And this is not to bring up old ship
or anything, but but my point is is just how

(01:21:20):
he came in and took the world by storm and
where he currently sits at right now on a three
and four basketball team and a lost team that has
no direction. It doesn't look like it has very much leadership.
And that's that. That was what you think Jaw at
this point in his career, what's this year seven? Form
year seven? You think year seven, that's where he would

(01:21:41):
be on all fronts.

Speaker 2 (01:21:44):
Six years old? Like where you stand in the.

Speaker 1 (01:21:47):
League that your career? Yeah, well, I mean I think
you're you're you're heading to your prime athletic proless in
your twenty seven, twenty eight, twenty nine thirties. But more
this is the time where you know, year seven, where
the game should have already started to slow down for
you and you're able to manipulate the game and understand
the game and understand, Yeah, we don't need him to

(01:22:08):
be a lockdown defender, but we need him to play
the passing lings like Alan Iverson. We need him to
work on his game and not be someone who's picked
on like Steph was picked on early on, and Steph
took that shit personal. And again, Steph's not a great defender,
but he's not a weak link anymore. And I think
that's what they need from Jah is to be this
twenty six you know, you look at it Aunt Edwards,

(01:22:28):
who's not that much with the same How old are
they close to age? Right? Yeah, you know there's not
a but you know obviously, And I think to another
issue with this younger generation is is they didn't and
this is not all of them, but not a lot
of them had a lot of like real og vets
that could tell him anything and kind of guide them
and help them steer this ship. Not from a superstar perspective,

(01:22:50):
but just as a player as you continue to get
older perspective. But anyway, let's take a look at this journey.
Number two overall pick in the twenty nineteen draft brings
electricity to Memphis. Memphis was much watch basketball. Josh rookie
year he obviously took home the Rookie of the Year.
Year two, the Grizzlies make the playoffs. He averages thirty

(01:23:12):
points in a first round loss, so it's obviously showing
growth and potential and he still must watch TV at
this point. Year three, breakout year, All Star, Starter one
most improved, averaging twenty seven, seven and six, takes his
team to the Conference. Simmis unfortunately hurts his knee, misses

(01:23:35):
the last three games and that's kind of the end
of their run. They lose in six to the Warriors.
The year the Warriors go on to win a championship.
So we're sitting right now, year three, I think we're ready,
Like he's one of these people that we're talking about
if we were rind And remember, you know, Brown's on
the backside, Steps on the backside, Kd's on the backside.

(01:23:56):
Who is going to be one of the faces or
the face of the league. And this is when people
are starting to stay like that boy out in Memphis,
Jaw is gonna be at least one of them, if
not the one. He's the rising star signs his Nike
deal and there was rumors I don't know if you
guys heard this, but there was rumors that Nike was
gonna bring their version of Little pennyback for Jaw. They

(01:24:19):
were gonna bring Little Jaw, which would have been absolutely incredible.
You know. I think Penny hinted. Penny hinted hinted that
when we had him on What's Burning at one point,
so there was talks about him possibly having a little
job which would have took the game to another level.
He's currently sitting on his third signature model of his shoe,

(01:24:40):
And how I measure success on kids shoes is how
much I see him at AU tournaments and who's wearing them,
because that means they're being bought. I remember someone I
used to see all the time was the Kyrie shoe.
He was always at tournaments. Obviously, Kobe shoes are at tournaments,
but Jos shoe was in heavy row, so you know

(01:25:01):
it was working at one point. Let's take a look
at twenty twenty two. This is the off season after
he's hurt. He hurts his knee right twenty twenty two. Allegedly,
some things happen at foot locker. Later on, there's an
incident I think at his house with a younger kid,
and despite all that, he's still able to kind of

(01:25:23):
move past that, because obviously, when you're playing at a
certain level, things are overlooked. He signs to Max deal
five year, one ninety three, something that changed him and
his family's life forever. The twenty twenty three season, Josh
stays in the headlines. January, there's an incident in Indiana
with some friends in a light. This was also, you know,

(01:25:46):
obviously that stemmed over from some on the court shit
that happened at the game twenty twenty three, the unfortunate
flashing a gun. This is when we're talking about people
telling on themselves. I think, right, I think this was
the whole thing where, you know, he flash of something.
The league suspends him for eight games. Up until this point,
he's still killing though, so the headlines are starting to

(01:26:07):
get a little louder, but his game is just as loud,
so it's allowed to continue. At this point, he's at
twenty seven, eight and six, and they were thirty four
and nineteen in the Western Conference. The twenty thirty three playoffs,
Grizzlies losing six to the Lakers in round one, which
will put him you know, obviously finishes their season. May

(01:26:29):
twenty twenty three, another gun incident on Instagram Live. I
think is Homie caught it. And at this point, you know,
this is when people are starting to make fun of
him and almost disrespecting him because one time's a mistake,
two times is what you know. So again he's incriminating hisself.
And again I don't even want to bring up all

(01:26:49):
this old ship, but my point of bringing it up
is to make you guys understand how the game has
suffered since all this off the court shit has started
to make more noise than me on the court shit.
So he suspended. Second time around, he suspended the beginning
of the next season. Is at the twenty twenty three,
twenty twenty four Missus twenty five games, we're thinking, like, hey,

(01:27:13):
you know this is I think this is going to
wake him up, and from all aspects you think about it, did.
He came in in those nine games, played nine games
and was at twenty five, eight and six, and then
he tears his labram, which ends his season. This past
season only is able to play fifty games twenty three
and seven, So the numbers of starting to dip a

(01:27:35):
little bit. They're swept out of the playoffs, and now
we're sitting here with a new coach who is trying
to figure out, how do I get through this team?
Can I go through the superstar to do it? I
think you can tell by his energy and the way
he handled that situation. Again, we don't want to speculate
it could be some real bullshit going on behind the scenes,

(01:27:56):
but still as the star player to handle it a
better way. So we're sitting here with a team that's
under five hundred, and it takes me back to one
of my original statements. I think he needs a fresh start.
I think he's outgrown Memphis from a standpoint of He's
done a lot of shit there on and off the court,
good and bad. And you know, I think it's a

(01:28:19):
good time for, you know, for them to kind of
press the reset button as a team. You know, I
think they got some good young talent. Obviously Jaron Jackson
is still there. I mean it's a situation where do
they try to clean house and try to rebuild with youth.
Because if you look at this team as with Jah
leading them and Jared is this co pilot, I don't

(01:28:39):
see the light at the end of the tunnel respectfully,
especially in a tough Western conference. You know, obviously Sham's
reported there's tension, you know, over the last few days
with the head coach who Nate butchered his name and jaw.
And again I think, if I'm looking at this thing,
and I'm gonna say it one more time, I think
it's this head coach trying to figure out who can

(01:28:59):
I go through to get through to the team. And
normally you can use the best player as an example
to talk to the rest of the team, but that
hasn't worked. So again, we are now here. Let's think
about a possible few places he can land. Let's keep
in mind he's under contract until twenty twenty eight, making
forty million, which is a lot of money, but with

(01:29:21):
today's deals, that doesn't make him unmovable or untradeable. You
can still move around and play with that and make
a trade like that work. So we're gonna give you
a few scenarios. You know, Houston is looking for a guard.
John can definitely fill that role, which would be scary.
You know, they could send someone like a shepherd east

(01:29:42):
end of van Fleet. They have Phoenix's first round pick
in twenty twenty seven, So Houston could be a potential spot. Minnesota,
you know they can throw a Nas Reed, a Devincenzo,
possibly a Rob Dillingham who hasn't really got an opportunity yet.
Terrence Shannon Nas can't be traded un till January because
he just had an extension. But Minnesota is another destination

(01:30:05):
and Jah, holy shit, would be scary. Phoenix, interesting situation. Obviously,
there would be a package, probably around Jalen Green. You
know they're not giving up Devin Booker, but can Devin
Booker and Jaw play alongside each other? Great city, I
think management needs to tighten up and get a little
bit better. But a great city to play for, a
great fan base, and obviously Devin Booker one of the

(01:30:26):
most solid players in the game. And then last, but
not least, you know that we're thinking Miami. You know,
you can build something around Tyler Hero getting a fresh
start in South Beach could be good for some. That'd
be a big responsibility for Jah to be out of
South Beach to get his fresh start, and possibly Brooklyn.
Brooklyn has assets. They're looking for a star, you know,

(01:30:48):
after they lost Kde and Kyrie and Harden, they've been
looking for a new direction. So Brooklyn can be that
big New York stage, but not necessarily the nixt kind
of scrutiny and and and eyeballs where Jock can flourish there, Uh,
Nate the producer, it makes a good point, I think,

(01:31:09):
you know, because we also mentioned, you know, we were
talking in our pregame conversation who else can use a
new start, And obviously Trey Young's name came up to me,
Zion came up to me. But producer Nate said, tray
for Jaw and both get a fresh reset. And my
thing to that is, obviously that's a fresh reset, But
I don't think that trade makes either team better, you know,
to be honest with you, you know, so I think,

(01:31:31):
you know, them go into situations where they can thrive
and and be a piece of something big would be interesting.
So we'll see again. The one thing I would would
say to John, because I'm a huge fan of him,
Pops looked out for us this summer out in Memphis.
We kicked it and he opened the gym for us.
And and so I mean, I love Jaw, but also
feel like, you know, sometimes in our position, we need

(01:31:54):
to have some way of constructive criticism that hopefully gets
through to the younger player that's not looking to just hate.
You know, him and Perk just went back and forth.
He saw that shit, and that's not the position I'm
trying to come in. My position is just incredibly talented. Bro.
The sky is still the limit for you, But to me,
it's less about what's going on around you and more

(01:32:16):
about what's going on within you and being able to
tighten up and killing the shit off the court. There
can be no more off the court bullshit, locker room distractions.
You just got to go out there and be a killer.
And again you're still very capable of doing that, but
that's going to come with hard work. Bro. You know,
your game has to improve, especially as you get older.

(01:32:37):
That ground gets harder and you're not an acrobaty. You
can't be an acrobat and dunk on everybody and hit
the ground that many times. So you know, obviously the
game has to steadily improve. But then also I think
the mental mindset of being a twenty six year old
superstar more of a leader, more of you know, the
guy the team can rally around, because when things were
going good, you were that guy. I definitely think a

(01:32:57):
new start would help this situation, but I think before
it goes anywhere, you know, you got to look at
yourself in the mirror, bro and really remember why you're
doing this and lock back in because you are one
of the greatest players in this game and this should
go by fast. Man. If you don't capitalize on that.

Speaker 2 (01:33:14):
At a superstar player, brand new head coach, how much?
So long because we didn't hear about coaching issues And.

Speaker 1 (01:33:30):
Yeah, I mean I get I think this is just
a new coach trying to find his way. And for years, again,
as I said earlier, coaches have gone at the best
player to be able to go with everyone else. Now
I don't know if that's exactly what he's doing or not.
I'm thinking he's probably trying to challenge him and he's
just not pressing the right buttons. And to your point,
Jock could be like I've been here, like what the

(01:33:51):
fuck are you talking about? You know, and that's still
not the right approach to take. And again I'm speculating.
I don't know what Josh said or done, but my thing,
as the best player on the team, you don't always
have to be the leader, but you can't be an
example of bullshit, and you know, he showed bullshit in
that last game, so that's something that could never happen
as someone in his position. So I hope he's able

(01:34:11):
to figure it out again. He's one of my favorite players.
He's one of the best players we have in this game,
and I think he needs to go out there and
reclaim that and all that shit starts between his ears
the World Series too. Remember incredible, incredible, incredible Dodgers come
through and get back to back titles. Shout out to
my Dodger people, Mookie and Line and Magic. Magic said

(01:34:32):
he's eighteen won eighteen championships, winners, win, Shout out to Magic.
I think one of the best World Series we've seen
in a long time. Disclaimer, I didn't get to watch
all Game seven. I had to go support somebody at
an event. But trust me, I almost got kicked out
of the venue for having my phone on because I
was at a comedy show and they were trying to

(01:34:53):
tell me, oh, you can't. It's like, I don't give
a fuck what you're saying. I'm gonna watch this game
on my phone. And then the dude win away and
got someone and the next thing.

Speaker 2 (01:35:01):
I know.

Speaker 1 (01:35:01):
They tapped me on the shoulder. Mister Barnes, you're okay,
you can finish watching the game. So I told him
you got to throw me out. You and a motherfucking army.
You're gonna have to throw me out of the comedy
show if you thought I wasn't gonna watch. I say
all that to say I heard I missed an incredible
game seven. You know we have a slide right here
of literally a slide in how close the Blue Jays
were to winning this. I was talking shit with some friends,

(01:35:23):
some ladies that are helping me with the golf tournament.
They're Canadians, and there was just a big time shit
talking about of the whole time. But I will say,
I mean Toronto played their asses off. I think no
one gave them the chance that they went out there
and earned. I think they could have finished it in
game six. I think a lot of base running errors
and then obviously bottom of the ninth, second and third

(01:35:44):
no outs and you can't score. That's when you're fucking
with the baseball guys right there, Toronto, that he's trying
to hand you something. The guys are trying to hand
you something, and you pop out and then you hit
into a double play in left field, which was an
incredible play. And then Game seven, back and forth, Otani
got out there and they took his head off off
the mound. But shout out to him, man, just as

(01:36:06):
much as he was doing and trying to do for
that team was incredible. You know, our guy Mookie, the
fend of the program didn't hit very well. You know.
I had some conversation with him during it, and I
can only imagine how in his head he was. But
he had a huge hit in game three, or excuse me,
in Game six that that helped them get the victory.
That's his fourth and three with the Dodgers. Four rings.

(01:36:30):
Shout out most, shout out most of any And I
like what Derek Jeter said too, because I mean, I
think obviously as athletes, we expect the absolute best for ourselves.
When he was really hard on usself in the post game,
I think it was Game six, wasn't it where he
was really hard said he was playing man, And Derek,
You're like, nah, man, you've been playing some great shortstop
and you're gonna be instrumental, you know, moving forward. So
it's always good to hear ogs, you know, give these

(01:36:53):
guys grace and hopefully give them the mental confidence they
need to get over. But was it, you know, the
bat wasn't his live like we're accustoming like I'm sure
he was accustomed to, but there was still things he
did to win. Yamamoto was absolutely incredible. He was five
and one then the playoffs with a one point four

(01:37:14):
to five e r A two complete games came out
and closed game seven and he won three games in
the World Series, which is absolutely amazing. I don't know,
if you guys got a chance to see it, we'll
put it up. But they found his how he trains
and how he trains without weights, and he's thrown these
like it looks like style froam rockets and and long
toss and this human fucking crab work just absolutely incredible.

(01:37:39):
His flexibility, his focus, the way he got hisself to
the point he was and able to be so big,
you know, for the for the Dodgers. But right now
it's it's you know, in obviously social media world is
not a real world. Some of you think it is,
but it's not a real world. But people are having
a hard time with you know, Dodgers, what they have
going on. I mean, they'remitted over a billion dollars to

(01:38:02):
Yamamoto uh and and Otani uh and I think they're
worth every penny and more. But you look at it
in something and I'm mad I didn't say that. I
saw a post maybe like a month ago, saying that,
you know, all the guys that the Dodgers are able
to go out and get had opportunities to stay with
their teams, but their teams didn't want to pay them,
and the Dodgers wanted to pay them. So three rings

(01:38:23):
in six years, you know, back to back champs. Alex
Rodriguez himself said that they have the best farm system
as far as pitching and hitting, So it doesn't look
like that they're going to be short of of youthful talent.
You know, they're not afraid to spend money. Does this
kind of dominance that I don't know enough about baseball
the inner workings to really know, but is this kind

(01:38:45):
of this kind of domination and and and willing to
just go out and pay whatever? Does this car Does
this bode well for the rest of the league? Is
this looming, you know, a stoppage there's no talent, but
everyone else you guys better figure it out. Dynasties. You
think about this team obviously, back to back champills the

(01:39:07):
first time since win the early okay, I say late nineties,
early two thousand, so first time in nearly twenty five years,
and we all know what they were on at that time.
They were you know, they were doing a version of this.
You know, they were going out and getting the best players.
So really interesting to see where this team goes from here.
They got their stars locked in uh pitching. I'm sure

(01:39:30):
they're going to find some amazing prospects and grab another
all star caliber player in the off season. But this
is one of the best teams we've seen in a while,
and I'm happy for him. Man, definitely happy for Mook
four rings. Lon Roser, the you know, the friend of
the program, he's the homie. I'm happy for him. Magic obviously,
magic is magic making magic things happen. So congratulations again

(01:39:54):
to the Dodgers. And remember, you guys can conversate with me,
have me answer your questions the hotline. Make sure you
hit the hot line two seventy nine call A T S.
That's two seventy nine c A L L A T S.
Hope to be here from you soon. Do we have
anything to hear from this time or no? Okay, This

(01:40:20):
Pick six segment is presented by DraftKings. The sixers will
take on the Bulls on Tuesday, who are playing really well.
I think VJ. Edgecombe will have more points than when
Draft Kings Pick six has them at and Tuesday night
we have SGA, the reigning MVP and the champion Oklahoma

(01:40:40):
City Thunder taking on the Los Angeles Clippers, who have
some defense, but it's still in the season so they
probably not going to bring it out, so I think
SGA will have more than the Draftking Pick six has
him slated for. That's a rap for unplug. You can
catch us on all the Smoke Productions YouTube and the
Draft Kings Network. We'll see you guys next week.

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