Rich Paul Sheds Light On Klutch's Origins, LeBron's Future, NBA Business | Ep 230 | ALL THE SMOKE - All The Smoke

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 3 (01:40):
Welcome back to All the smoke La Run Jack. We've
been on a nice little role man from New York
to our first interview with Cheaching Chung and now we
get to sit down with someone I've been chasing for
a minute, man, and just not chasing. But what's the word,
Give me a better word, Rich.

Speaker 4 (01:55):
We've been trying to schedule.

Speaker 3 (01:57):
I've been going to didn't even let me finish, make
me chase it with the wrong work, I say. We
both on just super crazy busy schedules. And we actually
got a chance to sit with each other the other
night at the Laker Clipper game.

Speaker 4 (02:13):
Yeah, chopped it.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Up a little bit.

Speaker 3 (02:15):
It was good to catch up. But man, welcome to
the show, Rich Paula, thank you for your time. Let's
get right to it, man Clutch. For those who don't know,
and those who do know just explain what it is
and what it means to you.

Speaker 4 (02:32):
Wow. I mean, you know, obviously I've been around with
you guys when y'all was in the league. I had
what I would think is an extensive understanding of the athlete,
of the professional athlete and everything that is embodied. At
the same time, you know, having an understanding of the

(02:55):
person that the athlete just so happened to be and
where they came from, whether you came from a probably
strict environment all the way up to you know, a
pretty upper class type of environment. So just having that
range on top of having the understanding of the game
of basketball and then understanding the business of basketball. I

(03:17):
just felt like I had what most agents definitely don't have,
you know, in terms of all of that in one
and it would never be based on a business card
for me, because I could really talk it and live
it and breathe it. And so I decided to start Clutch,
And what I wanted Clutch to represent was something that

(03:38):
I felt like didn't exist in the marketplace at that time.
When you guys were in the league, you had very
little options and things was being manipulated without you even
understanding what was the manipulation in front of you, right,
I just wanted to make it. You came from a
different path. Obviously, high school All American probably should have

(04:00):
been in the league sooner rather than later. But you
had to take a different route. You came from a
different path going to UCLA, etc. And so but I
understood both. And I'm in those rooms. I'm with you
guys when you're gambling. I'm with you guys on the road.
We at the club, we had dinners, and all of
you embraced me without me having to be next to

(04:22):
Lebron or whatnot. And so I already had the confidence
to really take it to another level. And I knew
exactly what the game was missing. And so when I
got the opportunity to start clutch, all those things, all
that that I had soaked up, those just been in
those rooms and evaluating and listening and all those things
I wanted to instill in the company and build a

(04:45):
business that truly represented not just the athlete, but the
person that happens to be a really great athlete. And
so that's what we were able to build. It's it's
been eleven and a half years so time definitely flies.
I'm not gonna lie, man. I mean, we're up to
what two fifteen now and county, right, and so we

(05:11):
My focus has not so much shifted off of just
being an agent. But that's that's not the that's not
the only thing I am today, right. I have to
run the company. I have to grow the company. I
have to make sure the culture is there and you know,
and empower people to do their job and things of
that nature. And so I've evolved from just being an
agent to really, you know, not just having a title

(05:33):
for the sake of having it, actually doing the work.

Speaker 2 (05:35):
Several you feel like the upbringing and the upgreeing that
we know about that forms you and to be able
to do all these things and have your mindset to
do all these things outside of Lebron pushing you your
own your own focus, your own hustle.

Speaker 1 (05:50):
Did that come from your upbringing?

Speaker 4 (05:52):
Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean because again, like I
was already there, That's what I'm saying, you know, and
so understood that I could talk to you with my
eyes and on the same page.

Speaker 1 (06:05):
Right.

Speaker 4 (06:06):
In addition to I was never I was never overly
excited or overwhelmed about the environment. Right, I wasn't like, oh,
I'm happy to be in the room. Yeah, I always
felt I always felt that way, and not only did
I belong there, I felt like I felt like I
can add value to every one of y'all in here. Right.

(06:29):
That's different and that's a different dynamic.

Speaker 1 (06:31):
And so.

Speaker 4 (06:34):
You know, the table didn't matter to me, right and so,
but yeah, my upbringing, you know, my dad. I know
we're gonna talk about the book a little bit, but
my dad being who he was and getting up and
going to work every day and exemplifying that for me,
My uncle's my community that raised me, you know, just
having responsibility and people holding me accountable. Right, that didn't

(06:55):
necessarily have anything, Like you didn't have to have money
to hold me accountable. Respect was already there. Wake up.
And I think we're kind of losing that a little
bit in today's in the league today, and definitely just
in society and a whole as a whole. But to
ask your question, yeah, I felt like that that definitely
prepared me.

Speaker 3 (07:16):
For sure, not to throw around numbers, but I also
think it needs to be celebrated. You know, the caliber
and where you've taken. It's obviously not the first black.
But the numbers don't lie on where you sit, you know,
on this chart to this day. And I only asked
because I want to make another point. The contract negotiations

(07:36):
through your company. What's that number? Four billion, four billion
dollars of contracts?

Speaker 1 (07:42):
Bro? Congratulations?

Speaker 3 (07:46):
So my question was, what kind of how have the
hurdles changed from when you first came in, because keep
it real, your kid off the streets, Yeah, I mean,
you didn't take the typical route.

Speaker 1 (07:55):
You did it your.

Speaker 3 (07:56):
Way, and you want your winning your way. You haven't won.
You continue to growing that spot, Bob. So what is
it like dealing with some of these good old boy
owners or just kind of being able to get your
foot solidified in this space today?

Speaker 4 (08:09):
Honestly, it's a lot different. Like I'm you know, I'm
welcomed in room. I'm really I'm embraced, I'm celebrated, you know,
I talked to I'm in different investments with owners and
things like that. In a totally different world today. When
I first started, it was tough because number one, you know,
no one looked at me as someone that was capable

(08:30):
of doing the job without even knowing if I could
or not. And you know, quite honestly, they expect you
to only be a part of the crew or the posse.
What Phil Jackson said, right, and so I never I
never exuded that. My confidence never exuded that when you
spoke to me about anything, right, it never it never

(08:52):
told you that this was a part of the posse.
Get what I'm saying, and I try to explain to
the young guys next to the athlete today, is you know,
there's no entitlement for you because you are being allowed
in the room or being allowed a seat at the
table or seat at the hookah bar, or whatever the
case may be. You want to try to have an

(09:15):
understanding of what your position is now and how you
can add value. And you don't necessarily have to be
the guy to do that, right. I think understanding how
the quarterback a situation is extremely valuable. It's just as
valuable as actually doing the work. Because any one of you,
if I said to you, hey, you know I know
this person, this person, this person, I'm gonna bring them

(09:37):
to the table, You're gonna want to keep me around
because I opened your eyes to something, right, And I
think oftentimes we get in the positions that we're in
and we don't like to give it. I want to
give it. That's all I've been trying to do is
give it. But there's a there's a reluctance. Even though

(10:01):
I got this movie on DVD, I have it on VHS, right,
I have the movie to understand exactly what it is
to stand next to an athlete and create a position
for yourself and then you know, continue to evolve. But
there's a reluctance because people want to be the only

(10:23):
one in the room.

Speaker 1 (10:25):
You know.

Speaker 4 (10:26):
The one thing I'm proud about with our success and
my success is individually, is the people before me is
now getting they just do you know, the agents before me,
they didn't make the money that they're able to make today.
They didn't position themselves. They couldn't position themselves the way
I was able to position myself. And really, you know,

(10:47):
it'll be hard for them to create a brand within
themselves like I've been able to. But as long as
they exit properly and be able to, you know, not
have to work as hard as they once did. You
can't get to a certain age and think you're going
to be in gems all day, like just you know,
just like y'all can't play forever. Yeah, it's not realistic.

(11:10):
But to see them get there, just do is something
that I'm extremely proud of, and it's important because I
couldn't be myself without them. And when I had that
conversation on ESPN, I wasn't saying it to try to
put anybody down. I was saying it because I was like,
my mindset was totally different in terms of business. I

(11:30):
was thinking in a very from a very different point
of view, and I couldn't understand why they had spent
all this time prior and wasn't already thinking that way.
It should have been the other way around. It should be, oh,
you're doing this, or I just heard this. Let me
tell you what you shouldn't do, what you should do,
why you should do it that way, the mistakes I made,
what to look out for, And that's you know, that's

(11:53):
just not the world we live in because we compete
so much, or the thought is compete so much, but
today it doesn't really. Having a number one pick doesn't
do anything for me today. It don't like I'm not
around here. There's no want for me to have every

(12:13):
number one pick because every opportunity that's given to me.
I'm gonna treat that person as if they are the
number one So that don't mean nothing. I'm not going
into the next living room saying, oh, I had the
number one pick last year. You not don't care about
that with your sons, Like who cares about that?

Speaker 1 (12:31):
Right?

Speaker 4 (12:32):
But that's what we're conditioned to think as quote unquote agents.
But I'm not an agent. I'm a business guy at
the highest level that you know, a creator, you know, innovator, mogo,
all the things you want to do, all the things
that they say about me. I don't digest that and
become complacent. I hear it. I don't invest in it.

(12:56):
I just try to do the work and let the
work speak speak saying nothing. You know. And so today,
you know, you look at guys. We got two guys
coming up that was twenty and twenty one Jayalen Johnson
was twenty Tyrese Maxie was twenty one in their respective drafts.
Those guys are gonna have no different opportunity than your

(13:17):
number one pick. And the difference between those guys. I
get up every day loving to go to work for
those guys because they appreciate it. See the higher pick.
Sometimes it allows you to not appreciate the work that's
being done, and who wants That's not a job you
want to do, right, And so I've totally I've been

(13:41):
out of that for a long time. I've like, people
don't see me around chasing number one picks. That's not my.

Speaker 3 (13:48):
Style, right, That's what you have the problem saying chasing
he's thinking that kind of yeah.

Speaker 4 (13:52):
I mean that's that's not my style. And you know,
people see people may take that the wrong way. No,
because I'm looking for the number one person, the character
within them. You guys know today we just talked about you,
was talking about your growth. Think about your age and
all the things you had to go through, and if
you had somebody next to you giving you the game,

(14:15):
you would be in a different place.

Speaker 1 (14:17):
I've been a five times, six time.

Speaker 4 (14:19):
This is what I'm this is what I'm saying, right,
So that's my thing. And so my whole goal was
to I understand, I can't represent every player. That's not realistic, right,
and we only deal with real We can't we can't
live in a fictitious world. But I wanted to change
how the landscape was being you know, kind of position

(14:42):
and how guys was being represented. And so if my
hustle and my grind and my wherewithal and my work
ethic and all those things made other people have to
change the way they were doing things and it changed
it overall.

Speaker 1 (14:56):
For the better.

Speaker 3 (14:58):
And congratulations, could you've done it and you continue to
do it and continue to lead the way. I think
it's beautiful. It kind of leads me to my next
question from a standpoint of what does make you excited
at this point of the game?

Speaker 1 (15:09):
Though?

Speaker 4 (15:10):
Oh, I mean, you know, I love that when you
sat there and talked basketball. I actually just really talk
basketball and really just think.

Speaker 3 (15:19):
That he told me the other day about it.

Speaker 4 (15:24):
Listen, that's true. But no, I think I think really
seeing guys evolve, right, because I think we put so
much emphasis on being lit and making the money and
having you know, and and and not really educating ourselves, right,
And so for me, I lead with that so much

(15:46):
that my meetings are going to be very boring to
most people because there's no candy there, right, But if
you can really pay attention, you're going to be why
they and you're one, you're already in your five and
you know, oftentimes people say, well, how are you gonna

(16:08):
pay my son attention?

Speaker 1 (16:10):
Right?

Speaker 4 (16:10):
You got all these guys et cetera. Well, that's actually
beneficial to you because there's no chance you're allowing a
first time heart surgeon to do your heart surgery. So
why would you allow a first time agent to represent
or why would you Yeah, why would you even put
value in just your son?

Speaker 1 (16:31):
Right?

Speaker 4 (16:33):
That doesn't make that doesn't make sense. So today, you know,
my focus is I do all the things I do
to get through these doors and leave them open, you know,
because again, you're not just athletes, you know, you're just
You're not gonna play this game forever. And everyone wants
to be a brand, and everyone wants to have you know,
their face on products and things like that. But we

(16:55):
know that's not realistic either. The only thing that's actually
realistic is you have a build an opportunity in front
of you to make guaranteed money for as many years
as you possibly can, and educate yourself enough to have
an understanding of and an importance of infrastructure where you
can diversify your portfolio and allow that to compound and

(17:19):
repeat those things.

Speaker 3 (17:19):
In other words, keep the ship.

Speaker 4 (17:21):
Yeah, because we do things you know that we do
things accessively and we make it about us and people
around you make it about you. But you got to
understand how you've been evaluated. From an ownership perspective. It
can only be about you, right. And the NBA is

(17:41):
a machine, NFL is a machine, MLB these are organizations.
These are individuals. You know, these are organizations. And so
I think the sooner you can gain perspective on life
on business, it allows you to to evolve a little

(18:02):
bit sooner than most. And mature and maturation just just
there's a business acumen of maturation. There's a personal perspective
of maturation.

Speaker 1 (18:12):
Right.

Speaker 4 (18:12):
We're all fathers here. Kids would make you grow up.
It's not a cool thing to have kids early when
you're still a kid, right, right, because it makes you
make decisions that you probably wouldn't have made. But it's
a hard thing. And we put ourselves through that thinking
that what this was the thing to do. We're just

(18:33):
now understanding how to do it. And if you have
them later in life, you're a little bit more settled
and you under and you can spare the time and
it's a different dynamic. And so it's the same thing
in business and in sports as well, Like your approach
is so important, right understanding. I remember talking to Eric
Bless some one time and I was getting on him
about stretching. He was a rookie by his fourth year.

(18:56):
He was like, bro, I wish I would have listened
to you as as a rookie. Yeah, because cause you know,
it's these little detailed things is so important.

Speaker 2 (19:08):
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(19:29):
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Speaker 3 (19:59):
I haven't got a chance to read this yet, but
congratulations on Lucky Me. Thank you New York Times Bestseller.
A few questions. Was it therapeutic and what was the
process of finding the correct writer that's really going to
tell your story the right way?

Speaker 4 (20:16):
You know, first of all, that book is about you,
It's about Stack, it's about myself, it's about a lot
of people in this room. It was definitely therapeutic because
I didn't know I needed to write it until it
was written. I didn't know I needed to exude that
trauma that was built inside of me, like is in
most of us. Most people have had to overcome something

(20:39):
within right. And we're not looking for a pity party.
But you don't know necessarily what you need to get
out of you until you actually have the confidence enough
to let it go right. Where you grieve in something,
whether it's something on your mind that you just need
to talk to somebody about. That relief is important, and

(21:00):
that's what the book did for me, you know, growing
up the way I did, losing my mom, losing my
dad at nineteen, losing my mom when I was thirty six,
but even more importantly, I didn't grow up with my mom,
and so those nights, having to relive those nights at
the age of four and five and six and seven,
and you know, my mom missing birthdays and never being

(21:22):
at a game and graduation and things like that, and
me still having the the understanding of and the want
to continue to love and also valuing you know what,
what a mom actually brings to a family. After all that, yeah,
after all that, and never never wanting to disrespect her,

(21:44):
And first of all, I couldn't it could work. First
of all, she wasn't going over there anyway. The second
I wouldn't have done that anyway, right, And so just
just digesting all of that and having to have that
on my stomach while then going out and having to
make the right choices, right, not having that I don't
care type of mentality, because you know, you could take

(22:07):
a multiple choice test and put abacadaba, is that what
you want to do? That was his game plan regards
my only choice, what I wanted to do what I
want to do, but I also I chose to actually
do the opposite in the fourth grade, getting yourself to
school and different things like that. And you know, I
had plenty of friends that had it just as bad

(22:28):
or if not worse than I did. But what they
didn't have is the mental toughness and the clarity to
and the confidence to continue to push forward. And so
I talk about a lot of those things in that book.
And there's a rule in each chapter because I think,
you know, you can make a mistake, that's just experience, right,

(22:48):
You learn from it, you move on repeated mistakes. It's
the only thing I consider a failure, right, because we're
all human, right, none of us is perfect. And so
talk about that a lot in the book. The aspect
of the title being lucky Me is pretty sarcastic because
I actually wasn't well. I was lucky enough to have

(23:11):
a community to look after me the way they did.
I was lucky enough to have a dad to really
care and to hold me accountable for certain things, for
all things, really without having an understanding of what was
going on right then and there, but he was preparing
me for life. He had an understanding of where we
sat on that corner every day in that environment, and

(23:33):
so he was preparing us, me and my siblings to
make life decisions right, decisions that will help save your
life in some shape, form or fashion. I didn't know
that at the time, but when I started to look back,
when he passed away and I was nineteen, it was
like I was thirty already, right, and so on in

(23:55):
my first home when I was that age and having
just an understanding of you know not, I never really
horse played. I didn't play video games. I didn't do
any of that per se. So I never really had
a childhood that most kids have, which caused me to
kind of grow up fast. But my community raised me
as well, and so I was thankful for that, and

(24:17):
I was lucky to have that. But then the not
so lucky part is it's all the other things that
come with it, right, and just a child without a
mom that just don't sit well with me, right. And
I used to be sitting there and I couldn't you know,
it's bad weather or and you don't know where your
that's just the thing. You don't know where your mom
is and things of that nature. That's a really tough

(24:39):
thing on the brain of a child whose brain isn't
even that developed yet, and so all that's in the book.
It's a lot different than what you may think. And
the response has been incredible from man, I mean everybody,
from high level executives of all business sectors to you know,

(25:06):
just I can't tell you how many how many times
I'm in the airport or something like that and people
come up to me, no matter what race or gender,
age and just talk about the book, talk about the
sixty minutes piece and things like that, and so it's
been great. It's been great. I'm glad I wrote it,
and I think when you guys get a chance to

(25:26):
read it, you're definitely gonna call me.

Speaker 2 (25:30):
I was thinking that Lucky to me was a play on,
like everybody think you hear only because of Lebron, like
lucky me.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
Yeah, I'm here because of Lebron. I'm lucky because I'm
not lucky. I earned this shit.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
So I thought it was a player on, like y'all
saying I'm lucky because I'm next to Lebron. But really,
I've got a lot to do with this. I've been
playing this for my life since a youngster. Yeah, I mean,
you're not wrong about that.

Speaker 4 (25:48):
There's just they're just they's a small aspect. You know,
I'm a pretty sarcastic person.

Speaker 1 (25:53):
I want to be.

Speaker 4 (25:58):
There's a small duose that I think. It's more so
just I think people would quate luck with money, people
would quate luck with success and things like that, and
so they're quick to say you lucky and versus really
just you know, having a conversation or just giving you
your flowers and saying, man, you know what, it's so hard,

(26:20):
it's crazy to do that. And even in our industry now,
it's hard for people to to just say those things.
And I say to them all the time, like there's
a reason why we remain a minority. There's just a
reason when you think about your approach just in the
game of basketball, and you think about your approach in life,
and you think about you know, I hear everything. I

(26:44):
see a lot. I hear a lot, and we haven't
learned a lot, right. And when you look at NBA
teams today, what in nineteen ninety eight, I think the
Bulls was value that two hundred and fifty million. If
you look at teams today, they're north for four or
five billion, dollars. You know, when you look at how

(27:08):
the business has grown, look at you know, all the
things you guys had to do and fight people had
to fight before y'all, just the rules changing and all
those things. And now when you look at players today,
they're getting nine figures, right, and you're looking at it
and you're saying, man, it's no telling what your career
earnings would have been had you had that opportunity. I

(27:30):
just feel like there's an importance for the guys today
to understand that that journey, respect that journey, and then
kind of make it easier on those coming. You know,
my trailblaze is not really about me. The rich Paul Rue,
me stepping up about that wasn't really about me.

Speaker 1 (27:51):
What do I need to.

Speaker 4 (27:53):
Why do I need to have a conversation about that?
I'm already in position, but I knew what it was
about those coming behind. I mean, you know that we
always thought you had to have a law degree to
be to be an agent. To come to find out
you really don't, right, And the teams show us all
the time the importance of infrastructure. That's why they have

(28:13):
a front office, right the GM. He has a cap guy.
I can pick up the phone, but they placed it
upon us as if we need to know everything right,
and it's just a form of discouragement. So I just think,
you know, my mindset today is obviously is different than
what it was yesterday and definitely ten twelve years ago.

(28:35):
But I'm for all of us despite it. Don't matter
what jersey you have or I don't even care about
that type of stuff, or even if I represent you
or not. It's just about doing things the right way
most of the time that you can right. And I
think ultimately, the way I look at it is it
helps when you start to reach back. Right, when you

(29:00):
when you create good habits and you build this foundation
and you educate yourself and things like that, you start
to make better decisions in all aspects of your life. Well,
that trickles down, right, and then that's how we become
a community. And then now your daughter is dating my
son and they've had these life experiences and then they

(29:21):
you know, and that's how it's supposed to go. But
we'll never get there if we continue to look at
all these mirrors in our house and were only looking
at the beautification. There's no accountability coming through that reflection.
And I don't care if your mirror is broke's, look
in it. If that's the one that's giving off the

(29:41):
reflection of accountability, then look in the broken. I'm fine
with that at least once a week. But we don't
do that to our guys. We don't do that to
our athletes. And you know, a lot of times, being
an agent is the industry to me was.

Speaker 1 (30:02):
You know, like.

Speaker 4 (30:05):
High level ego strokers. You know, for many years and
a lot of guys came away from a career with nothing.
I got no money or very little money. I have
no education, I have no positioning. Right, I can't go
back and work for somebody because along the way I

(30:26):
did certain things and now I have this perception on me, right,
And all the while the business is growing. Toront Lou
today has made way more money as a coach than
he ever made as a player. It's not even close.
You get what I'm saying. Had we been able to
know that, there have been a lot more guys positioning
themselves to be coaches, right, it just makes sense. And

(30:49):
I think that you know, we're just not totally making
sense of it all because we get so called up
into the other ship and what somebody else is doing. Right,
this idea of it's about me. And even if you
look at this shoe business today like it's totally changed, right,

(31:10):
you look at every industry. When we were coming up,
there was signature shoe guys. You can identify them. You
can't identify them today, one or two guys probably, but
they'll still sell you the importance of a signature shoe.
But that's to feed the ego. Because unless you can

(31:31):
build a business from a signature point of view, then
why would I put my effort in that when ninety
percent of people walking around today's focused on what comfort?
That's just a fact, so you know, and there's a

(31:52):
whole nother element to it. Now there's entertainers that's aligned
with shoe brands that would never happen, you know when
we were coming up. It's just that it's just different,
and so we have to think different too. If and
the person that's advising you can't just be the guy
that gave you a market in advance and waiting on
the next contract. That don't make sense to me, but

(32:16):
that's what we continue to value because whatever. But you know,
and it's part of the game. I get it, it's
part of business. But you can't have it both ways.
You can't want to limit something and then want it all.
Like those two things don't work. And most guys going
to make most of the money playing the game of basketball.

(32:37):
And why would you want to do anything If I
told you you could make six hundred million dollars playing
the game of basketball, why would you want to do
anything else? Right, don't bring me a deal. I don't care.
But man, listen, I'm locked in. I'm focused. But that's
easier said and said and done.

Speaker 3 (32:56):
Speaking of shoe brands, a businessman got his own shoe.
Oh me, I forgot new balance. Yeah, I mean again,
you know, rappers like you said that the doors have
opened athletes, but a businessman to have his own shoe.
I mean, I think that says a lot. But what
does it mean to you?

Speaker 1 (33:15):
Oh?

Speaker 4 (33:15):
It meant a whole hell of a lot. You know,
growing up as a kid, you think about that, and
we just talked about it. But you know, for me,
that was more so understanding the landscape. Understanding that Okay,
if signature basketball shoes aren't selling and that's not the
way today, then and artist can have a shoe. Then

(33:39):
why couldn't the CEO have a shoe. It's the way
I thought, because there's a market for that. In addition
to everyone strives to be a CEO of their own
in some shape, form or fashion, and so I was
mostly just focused there number one. But the shoe I
actually made for my shoe was a basketball shoot, the

(34:01):
five to fifty. It's actually a low cut basketball shoe.
James Worthy wore the six fifty when he played and
was with New Balance, right, And so the idea behind
the first one was just this idea of dreaming big
and not being able to be discouraged about anything. And
then the second one was forever Yours, and I was

(34:21):
talking to the game and whatever game you want to
talk to, right, because the game is the game. And
I built the creative around that forever Yours idea of it.
And you know, I reached out to Brent Faes and
he did the record for me, and my son was
in both of the commercials. But that that creation was
kind of inspired by myself and also a young lady

(34:46):
in my office named Micah, and then also the team
that we work with New Balance, So collectively we came
up with that creative, and I had the idea of
the letter being on the basketball and then kind of
meeting up at the end and things like that, and
so you know, I've always had that creative I mean,
people don't really know I've I've been a part a
lot of the commercials and things like that from just
the idea perspective behind the scenes, which was fine by me.

(35:12):
But yeah, no, that was that was something that was
that was big. And you know, I don't really celebrate
a lot of things externally, but the way I look
at it is, you know, just continuing to challenge myself
and knock down down barriers per se, but for other people. Right,
So you look at my relationship with New Balance has

(35:33):
cultivated into Tyrese, Maxi, Zach Levine, the John T. Murray
started with Darius Baisley and the and the Men now internship,
now Darius Garland is there. You get what I'm saying,
Chase Young and Will Anderson from a Clutch Athletics perspective, uh,
and then having and built a whole nother brand within
the realm of that, and having Clutch Athletics where I

(35:55):
can I'm signing people from n I L and signing
professional athletes things like that, and so just not limiting
myself because again, being an agent is something I love
to do and I want to wear that hat as
long as I can for my guys. I have no
interest in owning the team and things like that. That's
not what I'm looking to do. First of all, I
don't have enough money to own the team and on cap,

(36:16):
so that ain't That's not where I'm looking. But you know,
again opening the door and leaving it open right and
still having my relationships at brands like Nike and my
name's on the building at Nike, and being able to
manage that aspect of it and just do business at
a high level. I can walk at you bubble gum.
So things don't you know, that don't matter to me.

(36:38):
But business is business, right, And so I try to
teach my guys to, you know, just to understand that
and not be so much into you that you missed
the education. You know, it's very important to continue to
get the sap from the tree, and any one of
y'all know y'all have to put Richard to a side
and be like yo, rich you bugging man, or like

(37:00):
I'm like okay, ma, you're right, Jackie, right, and we
move on. But that's just a mutual respect amongst men.
It has nothing to do with stature or finance or
anything like that. And I think that's it's important for
us to get back there because that keeps you on
the straight and narrow.

Speaker 1 (37:18):
A lot of times.

Speaker 2 (37:20):
I hope Bro interrupt man, but I hope Bro, you're
taking time when you at home to break your arm
and patch yourself on the back because you know, I
know where you come from.

Speaker 1 (37:30):
Any things you're doing, it's special, Bro.

Speaker 2 (37:32):
It's specially for our culture to see that, because I
know it's times where you probably with Braun and there's
people that's probably saying, Hey, Broun, but I want.

Speaker 1 (37:39):
To be rich, Paul. You know what I'm saying. That's
what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
So just that alone, Bro, I salute you on that,
because now we got kids saying I want to be
an agent. I want to be rich, Paul, I can
be rich, part I can be this, and you making
them see that that can happen.

Speaker 3 (37:53):
Well, you're more likely to cut you off to attain
what he's done.

Speaker 4 (37:57):
Then you know exactly, you know what you brought that
point up, right? I struggled with the with the Sports
Illustrated cover because you know, there was always this conditioning, like,
you know, when you're representing guys, you gotta be careful,
you gotta tiptoe. And you know other agents used that
against me. He got his own shoe, like what Donna
think about you? And he doing this and all these

(38:19):
different things. But my guys they don't think like that.
That's how I know you care about Yeah, my clients
they don't think like that. That's how I know they
the right guys for me. I can't focus on something else.
But to your point with the Sports Illustrated cover, I
really struggle, right, And I was sitting there, and I
was sitting there, and you know what made me really

(38:40):
embrace it the way I did was being an example, right,
exactly what you said, both of you.

Speaker 1 (38:50):
You can.

Speaker 4 (38:51):
It's so hard to be one of y'all make it
to the NBA win championships. Man, that ship is damn
near impossible, right, And I know y'all make it look easy.
Guys make it look easy, but it's not easy. It's
a very very small number of guys that actually get drafted,
actually make it past year two, actually make it you know,

(39:11):
get a second big contract, actually go to the playoffs,
actually go to play in a championship game, actually win.
It's a very small group of people, but I was
saying to myself, you can't have it both ways. Rich
I had to hold myself accountable. You can't have it
both ways. You can't sit here and try to be

(39:32):
behind the scenes and be discreet and at the same
time want for others to be better educated and have
the confidence and have perspective and things like that. When
you're sitting here with an opportunity to be a great
example for them and you're choosing not to that Really,

(39:53):
that's what was the game changer for me, and it
caused me. You know, I had Instagram for five years
when posts that ain't my thing. I never wanted my
picture snap. That's not my thing. But I had to
embrace it.

Speaker 1 (40:06):
You know.

Speaker 4 (40:06):
My daughter was like, Dad, we don't read review Most
people don't read their view they see Yeah. So you
know it helped me, and it allowed me to embrace
the Sports Illustrated because that's a big thing, like, you know,
being on the cover and I remember looking at the
Sports Illustrated all the time. So when I got that call.

(40:27):
I was like, you know, but you condition to just
when you read this book, it's gonna help you understand.
I never really focus on the winds because of that
time where somebody told you I'm on my way and
it never came, you know, or that time you know

(40:48):
you embracing You're bracing yourself for the let down so
much that you just continue to push forward. And that's
the trauma. Even at the level I've got to today,
that's still the trauma that sits within you. Now what
it's done for me, which just gave me this unbelievable
drive to not sit into my my success placing. So

(41:09):
I've turned into a positive. But think about that, like
you know, most people be jumping for Joe. I haven't
popped a bottle of wine or champagne or anything like that,
just because it's just that there's a chapter in the
book and where I talk about bearing down, and you're
gonna like this, Jack, because I'm talking about my point
is four on the dice, and you know you got

(41:33):
to bear down. A guy got the last fifty dollars
left and you didn't you didn't want the money. But
you know, it's just like in the basketball game. You
can be up twenty and trick a layup off or
something like that, and then the team going to run.
It's the same thing. Then it's exactly you know what

(41:53):
I'm saying, So that that thing is within me that
I just think, like, I don't know if it's another
person in our industry that's had those experiences to position it,
to position things that way, and you know, I just
try to. I know I can't people within the company
is not going to be that, but I try to

(42:16):
make sure that the foundation of the company and its culture,
you know, continues to have that because it's hard when
you scale, like we have ninety plus staff members now
and over two hundred clients. You know, we started with
four clients and two people, you know, and so that's
extremely hard to maintain that. And we've been able to

(42:36):
maintain it. But you know, everybody's not gonna have the
same care, and you know, it's just you know, your
mom always said, you want something done like huge yourself,
but you have to you know, trust people and mold people.
And we've been able to done to do that. Fair
who was my partner who I started with. You know,

(42:58):
we've been able to do that Georgia here, she was
the ninth. She was a ninth employee. Think about and
now we look now, we'd be on zooms and we'd
be like, what the hell?

Speaker 1 (43:08):
You know?

Speaker 4 (43:08):
So that is a proud thing. And being able to
give young people opportunity is the is the real give
back for me, that's the real you know, passing out
turkeys and things like that is great, don't get me wrong.
But being able to give people opportunity and then allowing
them to grow within is the ultimate for a movie.

Speaker 3 (43:27):
Yes, Draymond Green. Yeah, a brother of yours first and foremost,
but also a client. The same thing that makes him
great hurt him at times through this time. He's been
going through it the last year and a half, two years.
No secret, what type if you don't have to tell us, well,
but what kind of back and forth you guys just
to have about the bigger picture because you always see
the bigger picture.

Speaker 4 (43:48):
Man, Draymond, I talk. That's one person. We talk every day,
and our our face times and calls is real. Some
day some days were talking not even about basketball. And
you know, I only know one way and that's black
and white. It's no gray with me because my Dad
didn't give Gray. So when we have that conversation, we

(44:09):
have in the real conversations, and you know, I hold
him accountable on things, but he also holds himself accountable.
And you know, when you're in the heat a moment,
sometimes things get away from me. You know what I'm saying.
But I know who he is as a person. I
know where it's heart, lives and things like that. I
know who he is as a teammate.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
Every team want that, every team need that.

Speaker 2 (44:31):
A lot of teams that's looking down on that they
wish they had that because y'all wouldn't suck so much
if y'all had somebody that cared like that.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
The people don't understand.

Speaker 2 (44:39):
I ain't mean to cut you off, bro, but I
we can relate because that's passion, that's caring about the game. Yeah,
we make mistakes. Yeah, I want somebody to have my
back regardless what's going on. Because I've been that person
on the biggest scale eve in the game, so I
understand it.

Speaker 1 (44:54):
I hate when people take it the wrong way.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
I love his passion and just like Greg Popa say,
you're not w in the championship without a guy like
dramrk gain without a guy like Ron just not happening.

Speaker 4 (45:04):
Yeah, No, I think I think you're spot on with that.
I also, you know, but we also talk about the
professional side of things because it's a different game now.
It is it is, and and you know, there's there's
a there's a place to take it, and there's an
understanding of not.

Speaker 1 (45:23):
You know what I'm saying.

Speaker 4 (45:24):
And I think Draymond's earned the right to get all
the way up to that line. Yeah, yeah, exactly, He's
earned that right, and so I don't think nobody would
fall him for that. But when you go over it,
because you are who you are, it's going to be
it's going to be a brighter light on it.

Speaker 2 (45:42):
Right.

Speaker 4 (45:42):
If you was a you know, and no offense to it,
like a two way guy or something and you did that,
obviously you're not gonna have a second chance and nobody's
gonna care about it. But when you are four time champion,
a Defensive Player of the Year, perennial All Star, first ballot,
Hall of Famer, heart and soul of your team, and

(46:03):
you're not seventy three and nine, it's gonna be a
different story. And so we have that conversation. It's good
to see him come out of it, you know, and
and from a a from a mental place that he's
that he's in and uh, but you know, it's a
continuous process. That's something you got to work on all
the time. None of us are perfect, We're just not.

(46:25):
But I think when you have the ability, not just
the ability, when you have the want first and then
put in the effort to make change, none of us
can also be We'll all be like, we're gonna support that.

Speaker 2 (46:39):
Right, And that's a big problem in our culture too.
Somebody change, They look at it us, well, why are
you changing?

Speaker 1 (46:45):
Changing?

Speaker 4 (46:47):
Yeah, you know what I have to change for the better.
That's the only way to grow. You know.

Speaker 3 (46:55):
We have the opportunity to have de John Tay Murray
on the show, and I was already a fan of it.
Game and getting the chance to know the head he
had on his shoulders and the story man.

Speaker 4 (47:07):
Experiences. Bro Let me tell you something, man, when I
met the Johntay, the first day I met the Johntay,
he signed wasn't We didn't have a power point, There
was no game, make or gang. It was just a
straight conversation. Monoi Mono. He has two uncles with him.

Speaker 1 (47:26):
And.

Speaker 4 (47:31):
You know, it was just it was just a feeling,
you know, we were able to see out of the eye.
And I told him, point Blake, I'm like, look, I
can't I can't promise you anything, but I can promise
you one thing. I'm gonna be there with you with
the ups. I'm gonna be there with you with the downs,
and we're gonna get better.

Speaker 1 (47:48):
You know.

Speaker 4 (47:49):
I had my colleague with me, and you know, we
just talked about life and I felt his pain, he
felt mine, and he felt that the trust would be there.
And when you think about just his career projected in

(48:11):
the second round when we first then he moved up
and was ten on the board, was supposed to go
ten to Milwaukee, background stuff or whatnot. I'm telling the teams,
I'm like, well, he can't help where you take him
from the hospital to the whatever house you take him to.
That's not on him. He can't decide which address he
get dropped off to, right, and so he shouldn't be

(48:35):
penalized for that. I've been with this kid for sixty days.
He went to one club, donhing twice, none of and
I'm not you know, I like to go out and
have a good time. Not him, not him, just not him.
He's just a baller, right, And so I'm like, I
don't see what y'all see. But whatever. So when he
gets drafted twenty nine to the Spurs, you know what

(48:55):
I told him. I said to John Tay he was
a lottery pick.

Speaker 1 (48:59):
Bro.

Speaker 4 (49:00):
He was like, man, batter this.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
I said this.

Speaker 4 (49:02):
Let me tell you, I've been through this already. I
just went through this with Corey Joseph, same pick. Y'all say,
y'all wearing the same number. I've been through this. Now,
are you gonna go up and down in the G League? Yes,
it's gonna seem like, excuse me, it's the end of
the world. Yes, but I can guarantee you it's gonna
put years on your career for the better. Starting off

(49:25):
here where you're starting off at. It's gonna put years
on your career by the end of the Western Conference Finals.
He started in the Western Conference Finals. You get what
I'm saying. And then gets hurt, still gets his contract,
gets traded, gets another contract. When you think about it,
and we talk all the time about it, and again
like I'm not one of those guys that have to.

(49:45):
I don't have to tiptoe around none of my guys.
I don't have to walk on eggs shells. I don't
have to. You know, it's nothing for us to talk
about twenty four hours a day that that's not realistic.
So you see these guys on the headphones, it's like, bro,
I'm doing a thousand different things a day, and I
know that's so like. We don't have to fake, that's

(50:06):
just acting. Look, you get what I'm saying. If there's something,
call me, I'll call you. Whatever the case may be, dinner, whatever,
whatever it is. We manage it in the proper fashion.
But it's just a bond, it really is. And if
I tell you something like my guy's like, girl, if
you tell me something, I know you've done, You've done

(50:29):
your diligence on it. Just that simple. So I educate
them and I'm not telling them what to do. I'm
just educating them on what our options are and here's
what I advise you to do and why. But ultimately
you have to make the decision right. And in the
Jonte's case, just this year, you know, we had an

(50:51):
extension eligible. We could have played it all the way
out or take the extension, et cetera. He has a
different perspective on life and his positioning.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
So we did it.

Speaker 3 (50:59):
We did it.

Speaker 4 (51:00):
Intension don't matter to me, right, and but I just
like to have the options right and so that's that's
what we have. But the John Tay's John Kay is
great man and just all my guys, man, you know,
we we We've been blessed as a company. I've been
blessed as an agent to represent some great guys. And
I'm ana be there with you up and be there

(51:20):
with you down right, you know, Miles's case, same thing.
You know, Guys like Tyreese and Darius Garland, same thing.

Speaker 3 (51:30):
You know.

Speaker 4 (51:30):
Just some of the younger guys, older guys you expected,
right A d K cps Lebron's and Tray Bonds, Fred Van,
those guys are like you know, but the younger guys
trying to mold them, you know. Happy for a guy
like Trey Lows, you know, like Trey Lows. You know,
it's just sometimes in the NBA, it's just about finding.
You have to stay in there to find a fit.

(51:52):
You don't always get drafted to the fit, but you
have to do the things necessary to stay professional, stay
in the toe, find a fit, right. You know, we've
seen many guys going to life. That's why I don't
get so caught up on the top five or top ten.
That don't mean anything. No, no, no, not at all.

Speaker 3 (52:11):
Obviously we're coming to the back end ofbron Steph KD. Yeah,
who were some people you see this next run of
this youth they can potentially it's a lot of work,
but to be there somewhat as faces.

Speaker 4 (52:25):
You know, talent wise, there's a lot of talented players, right,
there's a lot of talent. This is the most talent
I think we've had in our league in a lot
of time.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
But but.

Speaker 4 (52:39):
There's an aspect of understanding what it is to be
a great partner and when you are trying to position
yourself to be one of the faces, because I don't
think there'll be one face. I think those days are over.
But to be one of the faces of the league,
there's a partnership that comes with that that you you

(53:00):
have to understand. There's a reputation you have to uphold,
there's a professionalism you have to uphold. There's a giving
of your time that you have to carve out to
do certain things to continue to move the game forward. Right,
And so I think your production, yeah, and your production

(53:21):
every night, and nobody don't cares. So you had thirty okay, great,
you have thirty five. Okay, great you had forty.

Speaker 1 (53:27):
Great.

Speaker 4 (53:28):
That's expected of you, right, We expect that of you.
And I think that today a lot of guys come
in our league and they're talented, but they don't know
how to play the game.

Speaker 1 (53:44):
Right.

Speaker 4 (53:45):
And then in addition to that, they also don't don't
know how to play the game within the game. You've
been the best player on the team means you be
the first one at the gym, not mean you be
the last one to walk in, be late to the plane,
all those things are no go when you're the best

(54:05):
guy on the team. No, no, no, it works the
actually it works the other way. You have to actually
do more because the coach actually should be able to
sit in the film room and talk through you, and
you be okay with that. That's part of your responsibility,
has to face the team because what's the sister of
him talking to the ninth man on the bench that

(54:27):
ain't gonna do nothing for the team. But if I
can talk through you as the number one guy, then
it's gonna already reprimand the room, like I don't have
to say nothing at that point, right, So I think
that's important. But it's a ton of it's definitely, it's
definitely a ton of talent. I think, n I l

(54:50):
it's kind of hurting the growth of the athlete and
several aspects. I think it's good for our women's game
for sure, because we haven't gotten that part right to
where they can make substantial money. I think in football
it's just become the wild wild West. And don't get

(55:13):
me wrong, these stadiums are one hundred and ten hundred,
five thousand, ninety thousand every Saturday, right, these guys should
get something. There's no question about it. So I'm not
you know, but there is a there used to be
an aspect of resilience. So it's removing the resilience and

(55:33):
there's a trade off. There's options for the lack thereof
having to overcome something. I don't think there's a quick
fix to either one. We need to find some type
of balance because you need both. I want these guys
to have an option, because you know, it's unfair to

(55:53):
go in the kids' living room and say something and
not mean it right. And in basketball we see this
happen a lot. Guys go and commit to a school
and they've told all the right things, and then when
they get there, they're top five player coming in and
by the time it's done because not because of something

(56:13):
that they're doing, because these are young. These are kids,
by the way, they have a lot of growing to do.
There's nurturing that has to be done. In the college games,
there's a continuous effort to want to educate them on
how to play the game. And you want to get that,
so you have to find a balance of well, am
I gonna care about my wins or I'm gonna care

(56:35):
about the win within right, there's a balance, right, And
if we happen to it, which one you're gonna commit to?
Because if you're gonna commit to your wins, and that's
that's gonna let me know your coaching style right away.
And it may not be the best place for me.
But if you tell me this prior, there's one thing.
But if you tell me, hey, you come here, I'm

(56:55):
gonna make sure this is I'm gonna make sure that
And then when you got me there, that's switch is up.
That's tough for me. And then you can't don't say
to me, oh, well, I'm helping you get better, because
there's several ways to help somebody get better. You're picking
the worst way to help me get better without even
knowing how I learned. That's equivalent to my son being

(57:17):
in school and you know the teacher teaching everybody the
same way. Well we all learned differently, everybody, So that's
not I don't really go for that. And so I
think all that matters to the other thing is these
kids are playing way too much basketball, way too much basketball.
You don't need it. We don't need fifteen tournaments like

(57:38):
you don't need it. I can tell a guy who
has pro potential in two minutes like, we don't need that.
But there's playing so many games, and it's just it's
just it's it's why a lot of injuries are happening
a lot earlier too, you know, because you don't need

(58:00):
If I'm a top player, I'm not playing every tournament
that you that you got on my schedule for what
it's not going to help. Some of these guys are
are been playing for the last three years They've been
the same person for the last three years. It's not changing.
Work on your development. Work on your development, not that

(58:20):
too many games.

Speaker 1 (58:21):
I don't care what.

Speaker 3 (58:21):
I'm I mean, Yeah, I'm in the That's why I
coach my kids. They're not playing on two or three
different teams. We're not taking all these like it's it's
a to me, it's a step process to get there.
And even if you're lucky enough to be, you know,
help having a father this in it, there's still no guarantee,
but I definitely know the process it's going to take.
Not playing all these games is not the step. It's
gonna be beneficial. If you could represent one player in

(58:44):
NBA history, who would that be?

Speaker 4 (58:46):
And why I said this already.

Speaker 3 (58:48):
Yeah, I want to hear this because I feel like
he's program. Like I said, Rich to be honest with you, Bro,
the reason why I really wanted this interview is to
really learn, obviously before knowing about the book, learn more
about you because I've always just been admired from Afar
like that limit.

Speaker 4 (59:05):
I appreciate that. For me, it's Alan Iverson because what
people don't understand is and Alan Iverson to me was
culture before people even understood what culture.

Speaker 3 (59:24):
Was by far right ever since the word.

Speaker 4 (59:26):
And if you managed that particular person, basketball player business
the right way, this landscape today looks a lot different.
See if I'm only focused on who's gonna pass the
most money and I don't have an understanding of what

(59:48):
type of business I can build and why and with
what brand and this brand and the right product, et cetera,
and be able to build that over time, then I'm
doing him a disservice because there was I don't care
put them all up. Alan Irison is not even close
because he had America no matter rural, urban, integrated. That

(01:00:16):
don't exist. I mean it didn't exist then right in
the way that it was people wearing corn rolls. I'm
talking about every aspect of the way. Obviously everybody wanted
to be like Mike, and Mike had the shoes.

Speaker 3 (01:00:28):
And he had the whole nine, but he was more
relatable though.

Speaker 4 (01:00:33):
AI had everything. He had the cool, he had, the
corn rolls, he had the game, he had, the nostalgia,
he had, the boy. He had he had everything you
could possibly imagine, from the mint to the floor with
the Bentley, with the platinum. So that's the hip hop culture.
Then he had the basketball culture. The kid that only

(01:00:55):
wanted to play basketball, he had that culture. Then he
somehow he had what would be perceived to be the
pop s type of type of culture.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
Right.

Speaker 4 (01:01:06):
And so to me, that is like the dynamic of
that in America. I'm saying, the dynamic of that you
just can't I don't know if you can actually put
a price on it. And this is coming from me.
I was with Bron since he was sixteen seventeen years
of age. I know the things we've done right, I
know the things we've done wrong. And I don't know

(01:01:31):
if there's an athlete to build the business he's personally
built right right, just as a basketball player, the rooms
he can get in the business he's built all that,
that person don't exist right now. There have been people
to do well within their personal endeavors in terms of
investment and things like that. We have a lot of

(01:01:52):
smart guys around our league, and the access is different
now than it was back then when we first came
the league. But prior to us, it would be for me,
it would be Alan Iverson because he just had so
much range. You know, the girls, I we forgot about
the girls.

Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
All aspect.

Speaker 3 (01:02:12):
I played with a lot of stars, Cobe, Steph kd Ai.
I've never seen the love in every city on and
off the court, like to this day. Bro.

Speaker 4 (01:02:22):
I was in Cleveland going to the games. I had
a you know, back then you can go into uh
Macy's and you can buy the quarter season, half a season.

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
Whatever it was.

Speaker 4 (01:02:36):
So you know, I would I would go in and
I would buy season tickets. You could buy him through
like a Macy's or Dealers, whatever it was. You could
buy him through that. You could buy season tickets there.
And I had to have the Sixers game on a
on the on my little gold package or whatever it
was back then. And the Cavs wasn't that great, so

(01:02:58):
most of the season is empty. But when AI came
and play different, it was unbelievable. So you know, just
having that and you know, I, you know, for me,
I don't really you know, we're going back and forth
about all this, the conversation to goat this and that whatever.
But it would be AI for me just because of

(01:03:18):
the business. I know, I would have been able to
build and me knowing the person of AI, he would
have listened and oh man, it would have been knowing
what I know and was able to learn. Oh my god. Yeah,
just different, just a different, like you can't you can't
have that today because the wild factor is gone. Social

(01:03:40):
media has removed the wild factor. But so you know,
the the opportunity is a lot different. Right to be
able to compound something is a lot different.

Speaker 3 (01:03:53):
How many more years you think Brown got shu?

Speaker 4 (01:03:58):
You know what it changes?

Speaker 1 (01:03:59):
Man?

Speaker 4 (01:04:00):
I don't know. I don't know. I mean, honestly, I don't.

Speaker 3 (01:04:03):
I mean I think you being someone that's close and
knowing him the way you do, the way you see
his body moved to say the things he has to
go through mentally, I was an older player, like what
is I think?

Speaker 4 (01:04:14):
Body wise?

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
Five? Yeah, thank you I said four, but five.

Speaker 4 (01:04:19):
Yeah its mind yeah, mind wise yeah, no, the understanding
how to play the game mind wise forever like whatever, yeah,
mind wise as it pertains to frustration or yeah, and
or just like man, I have had enough missing time

(01:04:40):
with his family, his wife and just being you know,
because they've been they've been unbelievable. They've been, you know,
unbelievable once. Yeah, support system. At some point they got
to be about them, You got to be about them.
And I think from that perspective, maybe two to three,

(01:05:03):
you know, from that perspective, and I think, you know, ultimately,
like I said, we go through all these things about
who the gold is and I don't want to get
into that because I just you know, I've stated in
my opinion, and we all got our opinions. I think
every air gonna have their opinion. Who played against who
gonna have an opinion and all of that. But I
think that just appreciating the guys, appreciating Lebron, appreciating Kevin Durant,

(01:05:28):
appreciating Steph Curry, like appreciating these guys because for me,
seeing a guy like Steph at ford Field in the
NCAA tournament to being there, you know, I had Johnny
Flint in that draft when they came out before and yeah,
and seeing you know, everything that he's been able to do.

(01:05:52):
Just understanding how Kevin just he just loves to get
He is just a pure basketball player and we see
what that gets you. I don't even know when he's
gonna stop playing, maybe fifty five years.

Speaker 3 (01:06:06):
He just always he just loved to hoop.

Speaker 4 (01:06:08):
But just the appreciation, because I think when you in
the eye of the tornado you know, you tend to
not not really understand what's going on around you so
so much. And so I've seen what I've been a
part of. What I mean, where you came in the
league two thousand and you was too, so your rookie year. Yeah,

(01:06:28):
I was a year in between. So I've been a
part of. I was at MJ's last game, right.

Speaker 1 (01:06:36):
And just.

Speaker 4 (01:06:38):
Yeah champions, Yeah, yeah, that was two thousand and three,
being at All Star was in Atlanta that year and
I think they they last game was against the Sixers day.
But just being a part of seeing, you know, all
those different generations of ball players, you know, like I
have a Kobe gave me the last jersey he wore
in Cleveland. He signed it to me and he wasn't

(01:07:03):
given nobody. But I had a relationship with with with
Cod from that perspective, and and just you know, just
like you said, Ai and t Mac and and just
being a tim and you know y'all team y'all had
in San Antonio. Just being a historian of the game,
even guys before that, the Rod Stricklands, the Abdul Roight Oofs,

(01:07:24):
and the Fern Flemings and the you know, and just
you know, Ricky Reggie and and just all the guys
that Ricky Pierce and all these different guys that I
remember just watching those Cavaliers teams that we had when
they was good. And I played against Damien Wilkins when
Gerald played for the for the Cavs. Grig and I

(01:07:45):
was at the Soling Cage Classic. You might have played
in Soling Cage Classic. Did you play in Solar Cage
ca So I watched about I watched. I was at
the game when Garnett was on the Michigan All Stars.
It was Garnett, it was I think it was at
that point it was Dane Fife, not Duke. It was

(01:08:06):
dang Fife, Brandon Hughes. They had a squad and they
played against I want to say they played against I
don't know if it was earl in them, but they
played against Stringer Michigan All Stars. I think more Taylor
was on that team. Taylor Track might have been on it.

(01:08:27):
I gave that tape to Lebron to watch because he
was always talking about teams. But I was at that
game and that game was back then. I think seniors
could actually play au back then. And Garnett hadn't chosen
to come out yet. And I remember going to the
bathroom and I was I mean, Tarkanian was the every
d one coach was there and I was sitting under

(01:08:47):
the basket and I had these up tempos around my
neck and he was in the layup line and kg
he landed, he and he looked. He was like, damn, bro,
what was them? And I was just told him, like
what because we had just played in the small all
their gyms. So we just walked over and it was
standing room only, so we had to sit up under
the basket, but just going all the way and then
and I think the draft was in May or June,

(01:09:08):
whatever it was, and for him to be like, damn,
we just got drafted five. It was just you know,
just being a history of the game, like you know,
for me, basketball is me. It's just my life. So
that's what makes me really really love it. And I
watched even like like right now, I talk to my

(01:09:29):
guys about closing out improperly and you know things today. Yeah,
you sat and talking, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:09:37):
And real strategy set at that game.

Speaker 1 (01:09:38):
It was really back and forth. I loved it.

Speaker 3 (01:09:41):
Obviously, we don't have.

Speaker 1 (01:09:41):
A ton of time with you.

Speaker 3 (01:09:42):
So I'm gonna keep pushing it forward. I'm gonna give
you a list of people who are instrument in your life,
and you just give me a few words on them.

Speaker 4 (01:09:49):
Y'all did y'all research?

Speaker 3 (01:09:50):
First of all, Kevin Warren, the Chicago Bears president.

Speaker 4 (01:09:53):
Love Kevin Warren Man. You know, Kevin Warren and I
have grown to have an unbelievable relationship mentor and towarded me.

Speaker 3 (01:10:00):
You know, Jimmy I.

Speaker 4 (01:10:03):
Extreme supporter of me, always been someone who you know,
just continue to support and push me and want want
to see.

Speaker 1 (01:10:12):
Me do well.

Speaker 4 (01:10:14):
It's weird, right because they group us all together, but
then you have your individual We all have our individual relationships.
A lot of them overlap with the same people and
things of that nature. But you have your own relationship
with certain people. But Jimmy just has always been extremely supportive.
I'm not as close to but I did get to
spend some time with him and learned a lot in

(01:10:34):
a short time. We spent four days in two thousand
and six with Warren Omaha early yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:10:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:10:40):
He gave me a monopoly board that was a Berkshire
had the Way addition that had all the companies that
he owned on it. So that was pretty fly. Yeah, yeah,
jay Z brother. You know again, jan I is somebody
who constantly speak you know, just the other day he
told me like, you know, just you know how much

(01:11:03):
he cared about me and love me. You know, we
talk like that. And so when people think they see
rock Nation Sports and Clutch Sports, like we're not. We compete,
but we're not in competition, you know, for everybody out here, bro,
we're not in competition. And so even with this book,
like I was down the road about to do that
book with a totally different you know, publishing company, and
and I just happened to see a tweet about rock

(01:11:26):
Lit and I called Jay. I'm like, I texted him.
I was like, yo, call me.

Speaker 1 (01:11:30):
So he called me.

Speaker 4 (01:11:31):
I was like, are you doing this book publishing thing?
He's like yeah. I was like, well I got this.
I got my book coming out.

Speaker 3 (01:11:36):
He was like really.

Speaker 1 (01:11:37):
I was like yeah.

Speaker 4 (01:11:38):
I'm like, look, I'm on the one yard line with
this deal. And I said, obviously I'll get an opportunity,
but you got to be able to match my deal.
He was like, give me one minute, let me. He
hung up, call me right back. He was like done,
you know, But that's how we treat each other first man,
you know, like you know, in our industry, it's always

(01:11:59):
just bullsh it's different and most people, most people are
working for free. But that's not how you treat each other,
you know what I'm saying. And so that was just
another example of like it's you know, it's business. I
want to do right by you and relationship. Yeah, you
didn't have to, by the way, you didn't have to
call me, even though he's jay Z. I didn't have

(01:12:20):
to call him. You know, I could have done it
somewhere else, but I had I didn't want to. I
wouldn't see that and then still continue forward. You get
what I'm saying, Like, we just don't treat each other
like that. And so brother, Oprah, Oprah again, someone I've
you know, been been able to develop a relationship, you know,

(01:12:41):
throughout the years. And obviously what she's been able to
do just has been incredible, right from watching I used
to watch Women on Bruce's Place with my with my grandmother,
right and you know, color purple and things like that,
and so you know, just touch points people, you know.

(01:13:02):
But she's been great for me and just in terms
of just dialogue. We communicate here and there. I check
up on it here and there, and and you know,
she check up on me here and there.

Speaker 3 (01:13:13):
Father, CEO, businessman, agent, partner, How email us life, fatherhood
and business. That's a good question figuring that out.

Speaker 4 (01:13:24):
Yeah, but no, but prior to that, but prior to that,
I want to say, I want to say, you know,
but Randy Mavin Lebron brothers to me also, right, And
I think I think, you know, are the biggest thing
that we did was support each other, and that's rare.
I think oftentimes people try to understand how do we

(01:13:47):
all get here? And Mad built the mull time one
hundred min dollar of business. I did the same thing.
And you know, Randy doesn't always get the you know,
the shine, but it's very hard for us to be
us without him, So we do everything. Yeah, And so
I think that we didn't have this infighting and we

(01:14:08):
didn't have this you know ego per se. Now you know,
you have your debates and you have your your competitiveness. Yeah,
but if there was ever a situation, we can sit
down and have a conversation about it. Because the ain't
no road smooth. But you know, those guys continue to
be a huge support to me. And again we hold

(01:14:30):
each other accountabley and we also support each other. You know,
we've done our you know, I don't do everything they do.
They don't do everything I do, but we support each other.
And so I think for those out there that everything
we've done is what people want to duplicate today.

Speaker 1 (01:14:47):
That's right, y'alla only wants to get it right, to
be honest, bro.

Speaker 4 (01:14:50):
Yeah, And there's a reason why we got it right now.
First of all, you know, it's gonna be very hard
to win the Kentucky Derby on a pony r just question,
and you have to realize that, and they have to
realize that. Second of all, the respect for each other
to stay there, Yeah, it just has to be there.

(01:15:11):
And for the people that's not the athlete, you have
to be realistic and what value you actually bring to
the table and define and start in that role because
ain't nobody getting rich tomorrow. It ain't gonna happen and
probably ain't gonna happen just in general. And it's not
the athletes and I said this before, it's not the athletes.

(01:15:35):
They're not obligated for you to be successful that's not
how it works, right, because they're only single young men.

Speaker 1 (01:15:43):
For so long.

Speaker 4 (01:15:45):
Once they have a family, everything else is out the window.
So spend that time trying to position yourself to where
you always have a value to them, and then you
also have value away from them. Right, I built something.
Lebron retired tomorrow. Great, Now you can leave my pre
draft camp and be bad. You know what I'm saying.

(01:16:08):
Because most people think, oh, Lebron retired tomorrow is over
for you, blah blah blah. You hear what the what
the nay sayers say, But no, I look at it
the total opposite way, right, because you know there's a
reluctance because of right, he's just that big. But I
think it's important to stress that because I've seen you
guys talk about it before, and I want to see
guys do things. But don't you find it funny that

(01:16:33):
we've all been successful and we actually made it right,
We actually was around somebody that played a sport and
built businesses and did things. And you know, my phone
don't ring for help, My phone don't even ring for
questions because of the I could do it myself. See

(01:16:54):
what I'm saying, And and or they fall victim too,
because this has happened. It just happened not too long ago.
They fall victim to. Oh well, you don't have to
be aligned with them to be like them or be
successful like them. You could do that with us. We
can make you this. And so in your mind, that's
your table at live. That's this table that live and

(01:17:17):
y'all showing how many bottles y'all got, that's what the type,
that's how they plan, y'all. We don't do that. I
don't even buy bottles. I buy art. You know, you
know what I'm saying. But that's the that's the thing.

Speaker 3 (01:17:30):
And so.

Speaker 4 (01:17:32):
I think it's important to change that narrative, like no
lean in you know, whether you come with me as
from a representation or not, who cares about that, right?
But if I know where the land mines are and
I can tell you where they are not to step on. Yeah,
you'd rather just blow your leg off for the sake

(01:17:53):
of doing it. So, but then and then also my siblings,
who are my family that's really supportive of me, like
I and my kids, I couldn't be So to answer
your balance question, I've matured, man, you know, I've I've
matured over time. You know, I was a kid that
had kids. I was a kid just trying to find
my way in terms of my experiences that but but

(01:18:18):
but then on the flip side, my life experiences, I
was an adult, and so I had to balance those
two things because I came from a totally different world
and certain things I didn't understand because I only knew
one way and that's the stand on it, you know,
And so I had to figure out how to balance
that and and and then also mature. I had to

(01:18:40):
mature as a leader in my space, as an executive.
And so today I you know, my kids definitely come first,
and I've I've really enjoyed being a father, and you know,
that's that's been great. But then you know the obviously,

(01:19:00):
but the work don't stop. You know, I was up
at three thirty this morning creating. You know, the work
don't stop for me. And then you know, just continue
to evolve. You know, like I said, I don't put
a limit on myself. Things come about. You know, this
last year was an unbelievable year. I know every year
is not the same, but ultimately I just try to

(01:19:22):
get better, just try to get better. You know, and
they don't have anything to do with finance. I just
try to better habits, you know, better work ethic, continue
to strengthen my drive and perspective on things. And I
hold myself accountable so people don't have to hold me accountable.
I'm gonna hold myself accountable.

Speaker 3 (01:19:39):
Very key, quick hitters. Last few questions. First thing to
come to mind. Your favorite song and your fiances put
you on the spot.

Speaker 4 (01:19:47):
Hold On is my favorite song. Hold On is my
favorite song off of off of her album this year, thirty. Yeah,
hold On. It was a couple of years ago, but the.

Speaker 1 (01:20:00):
Album soundtrack to Your Life. Pick three songs.

Speaker 4 (01:20:04):
Lucky Me is definitely one. Jesus love Lionel diamonds up
against that would.

Speaker 1 (01:20:14):
No? I love that. Be able to pull off the baby,
you know? I love that one I.

Speaker 4 (01:20:19):
Got, I got some other ones off that I was
thinking I was all over. I was, I was.

Speaker 1 (01:20:25):
That was perfect.

Speaker 3 (01:20:29):
Stuck on the Island. Three shows or movies in rotation.

Speaker 4 (01:20:33):
Godfather one and two, THAT'ST one. I gotta have Martin
Martin and the Wire.

Speaker 3 (01:20:42):
Martin in the Wire, Yeah, first series, the TV.

Speaker 4 (01:20:45):
Show in the movie.

Speaker 1 (01:20:46):
Yeah, the first thing you do in the morning. Last
thing you do at night.

Speaker 4 (01:20:50):
First thing I do in the morning is well after praying.

Speaker 1 (01:20:55):
Yes, it is the first thing you do. Yeah, yeah,
so praying will be the first thing. Yeah, last thing
or that pray? Okay, find the same way, yeah, peaceful.

Speaker 2 (01:21:05):
If you could see one guests on all the smoke,
who would it be? You said a couple of names,
but you know we need so if you can see
one guess on all the smoke, who would it be?

Speaker 3 (01:21:13):
But got to help us get that guest.

Speaker 1 (01:21:15):
You got to help us get.

Speaker 4 (01:21:17):
Well when we start. I think y'all have a good
show with l J just because the basketball just you
compete against y'all, bro, we all.

Speaker 1 (01:21:29):
Have got bro. Just say it. He's one of the
best to ever played.

Speaker 2 (01:21:33):
We would be honest to have Yeah, we played against
him and all that ship, Bro, but we are fans
of this nigga.

Speaker 1 (01:21:38):
Dog.

Speaker 4 (01:21:38):
Just say that.

Speaker 2 (01:21:40):
I'm saying what you said. You said some other ship.
Just we are saying, Bro, we would love to have
you on our damn show. Please, dog, straight up, That's
just what it is.

Speaker 1 (01:21:49):
I was saying that we ain't being humble about asking.

Speaker 4 (01:21:53):
Y'all played against each other, so I know it'd be
a good show. Yeah, y'all had some some Yeah, I'm
like that.

Speaker 1 (01:22:00):
Is what we say on the show.

Speaker 4 (01:22:02):
Yeah, I think LJ would be a good one, but
I'm not gonna use him as my one. I don't know, y'all. Man,
y'all interview so many people. Even that's a tough one.

Speaker 1 (01:22:12):
You said a few names.

Speaker 4 (01:22:13):
I was like, it depends on what the conversation was about.
But like for me, like I talked to Lil Wayne
a lot now, like going back and forth, and I'll
be sending them old records of like he got this
song called after World on the Block is hot, just

(01:22:37):
just going back to my childhood when we was young
out there. Just listen to that. I'll be sending them
old stuff all the time. But just about you know,
the longevity, right, Just a lot of guys don't understand
the importance of how to stay relevant and how to
stay a star and involve and and continue to you know,
reinvent yourself.

Speaker 1 (01:22:57):
Right. And so.

Speaker 4 (01:23:00):
I don't have one name in particular, but somebody somebody
in that position, right, because I think.

Speaker 3 (01:23:04):
We just had Snoop yesterday.

Speaker 4 (01:23:07):
Yeah, I mean probably one probably the most recognizable rap
artist you know ever you know, and just someone who
again talk about reinveying yourself and just doing.

Speaker 1 (01:23:19):
It all him and Hole do it every three years.

Speaker 4 (01:23:22):
I think those I think those things are are important.
I mean just those shows. I like to watch those
shows where I can where I can learn learn something.

Speaker 3 (01:23:33):
Yeah, rich Man, we appreciate your We know you're very
busy man, but just also let you know, bro, like flowers,
we give you your flower.

Speaker 4 (01:23:40):
I appreciate see what you people.

Speaker 3 (01:23:43):
Yeah, people got to see people got to see it
to believe it, and you made a lot of little
boys and girls see that like, hey, that is a
possibility now man, we thank you for that. Like Jackson,
it's not just for it's more about everyone.

Speaker 4 (01:23:55):
And that's but yeah, I feel the love though, I
feel and I try to give everybody at at least
five seconds, ten seconds, you know, a minute of my
time if I can, because you just never know what
it does to that person's life, you know, So that's
to me that that's that's that's important.

Speaker 3 (01:24:12):
Yeah, no doubt Well, thank you man. That's a wrap.

Speaker 1 (01:24:15):
Rich Paul.

Speaker 3 (01:24:16):
All the smoke you can catch us on all the
Smoke productions and our new deal with Draft Kids and
that oh, congratulations yeah,

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Rich Paul Sheds Light On Klutch's Origins, LeBron's Future, NBA Business | Ep 230 | ALL THE SMOKE

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Rich Paul Sheds Light On Klutch's Origins, LeBron's Future, NBA Business | Ep 230 | ALL THE SMOKE