February 15, 2022 • 26 mins
In Today’s Episode, Bobby & Sophie chat all things "Chocolate". First, Sophie asks the hard hitting questions we all want to know about Chocolate. Then Bobby breaks down how surprisingly different chocolate’s original form is from the finished product that we know and love. And Finally, break out your leftover chocolate bars because we’re learning to make a famous Chocolate Brownie Recipe.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
All right, guys, welcome to Always Hungry from My Heart Radio.
My name is Bobby Flay, and I'm here with my
daughter and co host, and I'm always Hungry. Sophie and
I gather around my stove to cook together. Well you cook,
I asked the questions, and eat the food and does
any food left? We come to the table together to
share a meal, connect as a family, and tell the
stories that matter to us. We had a lot of
(00:28):
chocolate here, yeah, because we're talking about chocolate. So we're
making brownies. We're making actually, Stephanie Bannis is um very
fuggy brownie recipe. I love this recipe. So Stephanie with
my colleague for my whole life years, I mean, I
don't even know, maybe longer. Um. But she has left
(00:52):
to go live in Montana. We won't we won't give
her exact locations. We don't want people brushing her for
her for her brownies. But she's now living in a
cool place in Montana and loving her life. But she
left behind her brownie recipe, thank god. So we we
have some bitter sweet and we have some unsweetened chocolate,
(01:16):
and you know, there's a lot of fancy chocolate recipes
I'm using. I'm making brownies, So it tells you everything
about my chocolate chocolate workability. Right, Okay, wait, you've got
something going on over on the stove here. Yeah. So
we have butter and the two chocolates and we're gonna
melt them. This isn't this isn't a double boiler. So
(01:36):
it's a it's a pan on top of a pot
that has some some steaming water on top of it.
This is like the best way to melt chocolate, the
best way to meld chocolate because it um, it won't
sort of separate the chocolate. Would you just put on
top of the butter. This is espresso powder. This is
an instant espresso powder one of the things that you'll
see in a lot of recipes, especially like chocolate recipes,
(01:57):
brownie recipes. Is a espresso instant. I So it just
brings out the flavor of the chocolate. It's got a
great affinity for it. Cool that part, I know. Yeah.
All right, So we're gonna let the butter and the
two chocolates and the espresso powder melt, okay, and then
in another bowl, we have some sugar and some brown sugar.
(02:17):
Don't forget the chocolates we're using and basically have no
sugar in. And then a couple of teaspoons of vanilla.
How many eggs, whole eggs? Four whole eggs. This is
a really good brownie, reste. I mean, this is not
a cakey brownie. This is a fudgy brown Yeah. It
(02:39):
tastes like chocolate, which is like one of the things
I want to talk to you about when it comes
to chocolate, because how do you feelbout chocolate? It's very
important to me, really, I love chocolate. When you when
you look at a bar of chocolate and you reverse
the process of where it came from, you would never
believe that what was gonna what was gonna look like.
(03:02):
So it starts with this fruit called the cocow plant.
And then inside the cocow plant there are seeds that
are like they look like they're covered in some like
some white blaze of some sort, you know, and you know,
basically what you do is you take the seeds out
and then you ferment them, and then you roast them,
(03:23):
and then you crack them, and then you separate them
from you know, from the from the nibs, and then
you take the nibs of the chocolate and then you
crunch them, you crush them into into basically into into chocolate,
and um, you know, the cocoa bean is cut is
it's like half cocoa butter, half um cocoa butter cocoa powder,
(03:46):
you know what I'm saying. You know. So then like
then there's different grades of chocolate in terms of like sweetness, etcetera.
You know, you start with milk chocolate and that has
like either powdered milk or liquid milk or condensed milk
in it. You know, it's it's more it's east of
the wall, of course. And then there's dark chocolate, and
it's based on you know, it's a very high percentage
of cocoa um and fat content is the is used
(04:10):
for you know, from from the cocoa butter. And then
white chocolate really isn't classically chocolate at all. It's basically sugar,
milk and cocoa butter. And then have you seen this
ruby chocolate lately. Yeah, it's made from a from a
from a ruby cocoa bean, and it's got like this
son of like ruby color ruby, yeah, ruby chocolate, and
(04:31):
it's got like kind of a sweet and sour flavor
to it. It's really beautiful. You can you can find
it cool. It's like pink almost. So basically the processes.
You take the cocoa pods, you crack it open. Um.
I mean you you take the cocoa bean, you crack
it open, you get the pods. It's like these fruits.
You know, the seeds, the seeds inside, You ferment them.
(04:53):
Then you you separate the shells from the cocoa nibs.
Then you grind the cocoa nibs into this you know, chocolate,
and you temper the chocolate. Then you add sugar and
then it's like semi sweet, bittersweet. It all depends on
how much sugar versus the first of the cocoa. But
like when you look at a cocoa bean, you would
never think that you'd get like a chocolate bar out
(05:13):
of it. At that point, it's insane, it's totally nuts. Um. So,
what are some of your favorite chocolate things to eat?
Some of my favorite chocolate things, well this is now
one of them. Um. But I mean, you know my
favorite chocolates I do that you always give me for
Christmas roche Oh yeah, oh my god, so those have
(05:39):
their hazelnuts, right, it's hazel nuts and chocolate. Yeah, it's
like a new teller piece of chocolate. Basically my favor.
Those are my favorite. But I love a chocolate cake.
See I don't. I have a I have a I
have a kind of uh like a love and hate
thing about chocolate. Let me tell you about this. What
(05:59):
if you talk to chocolate aficionados, they will tell you
that dark chocolate is the only chocolate wrong. What do
you mean wrong? In my opinion, I mean I'm getting
I'm getting to that. You know, people who are really like,
you know, true chocolate aficionados really believe that, you know,
for chocolate to have quality has to be very dark,
(06:21):
deep bitter chocolate. And I and and coffee drinkers say
the same thing. I say, No, I want I want
to enjoy what I'm eating. And a lot of times
you'll like, I'll eat chocolate that's so dark and bitter,
and I'm like, I don't even like this. But but
also like, um, I feel the same thing about coffee.
(06:42):
You know, you go, you go to some coffee shop
and it's like, you know, they have these most exotic
beans and they roast them in a certain way, and
on and on and on, and they're like they're brewed
for a really long time. Like I don't like that,
and and it's just like it doesn't it's not satisfying.
So you know, maybe I'm just like Woos when it
comes to like chocolate and coffee. But I just I
don't know. I want I want a pleasurable experience. I agree,
(07:06):
And like if I'm eating, if I'm eating like a
piece of chocolate that has like a caramel, like a
caramel piece of chocolate, then I can I can do
the dark chocolate because I think it's a nice balance.
But if it's just a plain piece of chocolate, like
I'm it's milk. Yeah, so but that but like chocolate
purists will tell you that we're not right. But that's okay,
that's fine. So we have the we have the white sugar,
(07:32):
the brown sugar, and some eggs and some vanilla salt. Nice.
We're just gonna melt this and then we're gonna get
a baking pan with some parchment paper. You're using chocolate
(07:53):
bars for this instead of chocolate chips. Does that matter?
It doesn't really matter because you're gonna melt it. Anyway,
do you make brown soopie? No? Actually, I'm not really
that big of a brownie fan because usually it's too cakey. Yeah. Yeah,
I'm liking the sound of these brownies. This is like
the extent of my chocoate work. Really good. I mean,
(08:19):
you know, I can like, I like making like those
malted chocolate cakes where they you know who invented that,
John George. Yeah, I remember when it first came out,
we were like basically had just opened. He was doing
it at Jojo Basic Grill and Jojo open the same year.
It was the year like nothing opened in New York
was We're in the middle of recession, so Basic Real
(08:39):
open and Jojo open, and we got the two of
those two restaurants. Got a lot of attention to the
meeting because nothing else opened. And he came out with
this chocolate cake. And I told my patiu chef at
the time, Wayne Brackman, Remember Wayne, I was like, we
have to do our mastic girl version of this cake.
So we made like an ancho chili chocolate version of it.
Was so good. If I'm going to eat something chocolate,
(09:22):
I wanted to taste like chocolate. Okay, Well yeah, so
like some like a lot of chocolate ice cream doesn't
taste like chocolate. It tastes very deluded. It's almost like
vanilla that's kind of has like a brownish color to it,
you know, it doesn't it doesn't taste like chocolate. So
like I want, like when I eat a latto, I
(09:44):
want a dark chocolate cholatto. Now that said, there's a
lot of sugar in there, and you know, there's you know,
there's you know, cream, et cetera. So it's sort of
chilling out the bitterness of it all. But the deep,
rich flavor of the chocolate is what I'm looking for.
There was a place, a steakhouse made me sure if
they're if they're still there, but it's called the Strip
House on Twelfth Street, and you have this they had
(10:08):
They had a chocolate layer cake there. It had four
thousand layers. Yea, so good. It was ridiculous, and I
tried to get my Pactiy chef to make it. It
never really got to the point where I was completely
satisfied with it. I mean, we we got we got
like we just couldn't make enough layers of it. But
it was so so good. But it had like that
(10:28):
deep rich chocolate flavor. I mean also like when I
when I'm eating like hot chocolate, like I want to
taste good quality cocoa powder. And I wanted to taste Yes,
I wanted to be like basically like liquid chocolate. Yeah,
I agree, But I also is there a dog in here? Wait?
Did not you bring home a friend? We? You know
(10:51):
what's interesting is there was a meme that was going
around during the holidays that was like, like, if you
make hot chocolate with like hot chocolate with Walt, if
you're making hotocolate with water, like you should be locked
up or something like that, Like you no, you have
to make it with milk. I made, so I make
mine with milk. Christina wants oat milk? It works? Is
it good? I don't know. You wouldn't know. But you
(11:15):
know what I really loved when I was younger was
chocolate mouse. I was going to talk to you about that.
I loved chocolate mouse. Alex Goanna Shelley and I talked
about this all the time. She lived in a building
in New York City where a friend of mine lived
when we were with teenagers. We didn't know each other then,
and I remember going to that this my friend's house
(11:39):
we had it was like a bunch of kids there
and I made chocolate moose. I was like seventeen years old. Yeah,
and um chocolate mouse again. You're right, like you need
a deep rich chocolate because you're gonna put cream and
egg whites in it. It's got to fight through all
that fat richness. But if you don't use, you know,
a good quality, deep dark chocolate, then you can't taste
(12:02):
it right. Then it just tastes like whipped cream. No.
I love chocolate moose so much. How about chocolate cream pie? Yeah?
So do you like chocolate pudding? I like homemade chocolate pudding. Well,
what do you think I was talking about? Well, most
people don't make their own homemade chocolate pudding, buy chocolate pudding.
So like I feel like I used to have, like
(12:23):
chocolate pudding, like storebought chocolate pudding. Putt in like my
lunch box. So we have something so we call it's
called bundino. Putting is is bundino in Italian. So we
have we have a chocolate bundino in a maufie and
we were making like, you know, I wanted this on
the menu. And while we were making it, I had
my Paci chef make it like thirty five times because
it's just not it was not getting enough chocolate flavor.
(12:45):
And she kept saying to me, like, you have to
be kidding me. I'm like, no, when you stick your fork,
when you stick your spoon in this thing, I want
you to like close your eyes and taste chocolate in
the most incredible way. And I think that that's really important.
A lot of times people miss that, Like it's almost
like they think chocolate's gonna take care of itself, doesn't
um same thing with gelato and sorbet. Yeah. I like
chocolate sorbet a lot. It's one of my favorite things.
(13:07):
But it's got again, it's got to have a deep ridge.
So the butter and the chocolate are making this beautiful
melted goodness. And you know you do it over a
double boiler, so that so that's so that the melting
process is gentle. If you do this right in the pan,
(13:29):
it's a chance it would break or burn scorts the chocolate. Okay,
so we're gonna pour the chocolate into the sugar and
egg mixture and half the flower and the other half
(13:50):
of the flower. What does that semi sweet chocolate. So
basically using three kinds of chocolate unsweetened. It is sweet,
and there's some semi sweet chocolate that we're gonna use. Um,
we're just gonna cut it into cut into shards and
(14:10):
then fold it into the chocolate batter and that's the
brownie batter and then three fifty degrees minutes and then
you have to let him cool for like four hours
because it's really dense chocolate. You wanted to set it
(14:32):
would parch my paper lines baking dish, and we want
to smooth it outside even big seapingly pretty easy. Yeah, definitely.
I've never made brownies like this. Yeah, and you get
some vanilla gelato brownie Sunday. Put some nuts on. These
(14:54):
people who says you can't bake a lot of people
put in the appisode. Okay, so we used to do
it upside down. Chocolate cream pie. Do you remember this
is so good? Yeah? American where the crust was a
thin layer on top and then the chocolate pudding was
(15:17):
in the bottom. It was so good. I had it
every time I was there. Here's one of my other
favorite chocolate dishes, chocolate and coconut bread pudding. Mm hmm okay,
never had that so good. I mean basically, make like
a chocolate custard with stale bread. You let it steep,
(15:37):
You put like you know, a little coconut milk in there,
some coconut flakes, etcetera. Bake it. It's amazing. And your
notes over there. Do you have the chocolate eggs? What's that?
The doctors used to make me chocolate eggs. Ginormous chocolate
eggs for Easter. No, no, no no, he used to make
you a life size bunny and eggs they were huge
(15:59):
and there were there was chocolate in them. I have
to write. So that was when How old were you?
That made me believe in the Easter bunny? That is
for sure. I took so Jacques Terrez, who was one
of the great chocolate tears ever and also pastry chefs
and nicest, one of the nicest men um he was
(16:19):
when I met Jock, he was the pastry chef Atles Cirque, Okay,
years ago, and then he went on his own and
he was like the wooly Wonka of he had you.
You were I mean you were so will be four
media like six or seven, but he had you. He
had me bring you to his Brooklyn in Dumbo, and
(16:41):
he made chocolate with you, like he made stuff with you,
but there was he had. He has like this chocolate
fountain that's constantly tempering the chocolate. And I remember you
just sticking your finger in the under the frosts of
the chocolate. I was like, Sophie, come on, that's not
very sanitary. But he's like he is like he has
like that magic to him, like as a person, like
(17:03):
you feel like he really is like a Willie Walk
in his sense. Yeah, for sure. I also like using
chocolate and savory dishes like I I love making mole sauces.
I think it's, you know, a great use of chocolate
to finish the sauce, especially a spicy sauce that has
all these chilies kind of running through it. It's one
of those things that people think of mola as a
chocolate sauce. It's not. It's a sauce that is sometimes
(17:26):
finished with chocolate, especially if it's if it's a deep
red red or almost black mole. And um, it's really
used that to sort of be a good counterbalance and
a foil to all the chili peppers that are running
through the sauce. Just kind of gives it a nice coating. Yeah,
when I was studying abroad in London, Um, we went
to the Cadbury factory. It was so it's because they
(17:49):
they've turned it into like a museum. Um. Also like
so you can like walk through and see all the
steps and whatnot. And I love Cadburry chocolate. I thought
it was it was so cool to see the whole process.
Well also, you know there's there's this whole art form
of what they what they call chocolate work. And you
see these chocolate tears like making like the most amazing
(18:10):
things that chocolate. They use it as like they use
it as like paint or and or like to create sculptures.
You know. It's like, um, that's that's a business that
I'm not in. Um, I can tell you that much.
That's not that's not for me. But but I just
love where they manipulated chocolates. They and like you'll see
like you know, they'll make blue chocolates and red chocolates.
(18:31):
You know, they take white they usually take white chocolate
and put some kind of food coloring. But then you know,
everything is chocolate, but it has different colors and textures
and shapes, and sizes. It's amazing for your restaurants. Do
you think it's important to always have something chocolate on
the dessert menu? A million percent. Absolutely. I'm not. I'm
not a restaurateur, but I also feel that way. Well,
right now we have that chocolate Bundino, which is very
(18:52):
rich and deep in chocolate flavor. For sure. I mean
it's it's um, yeah, it's it's imperative for sure. Yeah,
I'm always looking for the chocolate item on the menu. Yeah.
I mean, look, I mean people there were there were
people that are just obsessed with chocolate, and I get it. Yeah.
I used to make chocolate fundu a lot when I
was little with my with my friends, we used to
(19:13):
make and stuff like that, or like marshmallows. Yeah that works. Um,
have you ever made your own hot fudge? It's like
sweet and condensed milk and melted chocolate. So sure you have.
I have. I'm a Sunday expert, exactly. I like a
good I like a good chocolate. I'm not just saying this.
(19:50):
This is the best brownie I've ever had. You can
thank Stephanie Bangs. It is. I love that. It's the
consistency is more fudge like, yeah, I mean, I think
there's two kind of brownies in the world. A brownie
that is cakey and a brownie that's fudgie. And I think, like,
I'm just on the side of yours, which is that
I wanted to taste like very chocolate foote and and
(20:11):
I can't taste It's it's like it's not overpowering, but
I can't taste the espresso. And I love that. Well,
the espresso brings out the chocolate flavor and it gives
it a little bit of bitterness that that is really nice.
It's a it's a good bidder. Exactly is red velvet chocolate?
(20:32):
So red velvet is actually the original red velvet. And
I'm gonna get this wrong so some I'm sure I'll
be corrected on the internet in five seconds. But from
what I was told, Red Velvet happened by mistake really
because for whatever the situation was, they were doing something
(20:54):
with cocoa powder and some vinegar and the chemical reaction
turned it this sort of deep red color and that's
that's how it was born. So it's really it's a
cake that's based on coco in some in some ways,
you know, it's um it's it's really a weird concept
(21:14):
because you know, it hasn't it doesn't really have a
ton of flavor. Um, but it's a cool thing to
look at. You know, we red velvet cake yesterday, I
know at the I V. But they had but they're
but they're but they're cream cheese filling. What was pink? Yeah?
I like the kind of contrast of like the bright white. Yeah. Yeah,
me too. Oh you know what else I love that.
(21:35):
I'm pretty sure it was that Bar American. Was the
chocolate the German chocolate cake that was sick? Yeah, so
you know it's it's actually, um, it's actually Germans chocolate cake. Oh,
it's not a German chocolate cake. It's German. No, it's
it's possessive. It's Germans chocolate. Interesting, Okay, it's a brand
(22:00):
or a kind of chocolate and so and basically I
think it's like I think it's like chocolate and coconut
and p cons is what a German chocolate cake is. Yeah,
well it was so good where a Bar America? Yeah,
absolutely good. At first, we um, we didn't have it
on the menu, and then I did a throw down
with it. Oh really, yeah, we have to like get
(22:21):
this cake going. Yeah, it's so good. I like a
chocolate cake for my birthday. What does it look like? Chocolate?
I don't know, but I like a light, like layered
with what like a three layer cake. I like like
crunchy chocolate in the middle, basically chocolate and chocolate. Wait,
what is when you're eating an ice cream cake and
it's like chocolate crunch in the middle? What is that?
(22:42):
I have no idea, no idea. Come on, you're the
ice cream man. It's probably like fiatine or something like that.
What is that? It's like a very thin, crispy like
um pastry. Oh, okay, that you know, it's like, um,
it's very crunchy. Okay. I don't know. I really don't know.
(23:03):
I don't make ice cream cakes, not anymore, make ace
cream Sundays. What about chocolate chip cookies? I mean, probably
the one of the best inventions of all time. Do
you use my recipe? Yeah? Your recipe is so good,
but you have to let it rest one night. Do
you do that? Yeah? Unless I come and just steal
some dough from you that you already have in the freezer.
(23:24):
I've done that before, I know, But I think that
chocolate chip cookies, Like, what's the what kind of chocolate
is in those cookies? Again? I think it's semi sweet.
I believe you have your cookbook right. Actually, one of
my favorite chocolate chip cookies is Jacqueturrez's cookie. Well, I'm
sure because it has shards of chocolate running through it,
which is so good, big shards. Oh yeah, you mentioned
(23:46):
Jock in this. It's semi sweet and milk chocolate. What
is read the read the paragraph, this paragraph. This is
my favorite chocolate chip cookie, well, other than Jock dorres Is,
and I always have the dough in my fridge or
freezer for me to take. Did you know that the
longer the dose sits, the better the cookie is. If
you're making these and planning on eating them right away,
(24:08):
start at least one day. Start at least one day
and perfectly up to three days in advance, and let
the dose sit in the fridge so the flavors intensify. Yeah,
they're good, They're really good. The brown sugar is also
a well you asked me that the other day about
you know, brown sugar versus you know, white granulated sugar.
It definitely hasn't much Fritcher flavor to it. Oh, this
(24:28):
is so good. The chocolate hazelnut crema catalana. Oh, so,
crema carta llana is where was this that gatto? So
the crema carta llana is a it's a custard. It's
like Spain's version of you know, crembroulet. So good, it's
so good. What kind of chocar is in that one?
(24:49):
Bitter sweet? Yes? So it's a deep it's a deep
richer chocolate. Oh my god, that's so good. I can't
believe I forgot about that one. I always ordered that too.
Oh what about a what about a chocolate martini? What
about it? Grandma's specialty? That was my that was my
mother's move. Should we go to the bar Atlantic City
(25:11):
at my restaurant in order chocolate martinis? Like one after
the other? Chocolate syrup? Could dive a dark chocolate liqueur
vodka three sixty double chocolate vodka. Oh man, all right,
there's a vodka for every situation, for sure. Cheers to that.
I think what I'm gonna do is get you a
(25:32):
for your birthday coming up. I'm gonna get you a
chocolate sink, a chocolate fountain. Perfect, so you can just
have the chocolate like just kind of rotating through all night.
I think that's a great idea. Always Hungry is created
by Bobby Flay and Sophie Flay. Our executive producer is
Christopher Hasiotis. Always Hungry is produced, edited, and mixed by
(25:54):
Jonathan Honks Dressler. Always Hungry is engineered by Sophie Flay.
For more podcast in my Heart Radio, visit the I
Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
All right, guys, welcome to Always Hungry from My Heart Radio.
My name is Bobby Flay, and I'm here with my
daughter and co host, and I'm always Hungry. Sophie and
I gather around my stove to cook together. Well you cook,
I asked the questions, and eat the food and does
any food left? We come to the table together to
share a meal, connect as a family, and tell the
stories that matter to us. We had a lot of
(00:28):
chocolate here, yeah, because we're talking about chocolate. So we're
making brownies. We're making actually, Stephanie Bannis is um very
fuggy brownie recipe. I love this recipe. So Stephanie with
my colleague for my whole life years, I mean, I
don't even know, maybe longer. Um. But she has left
(00:52):
to go live in Montana. We won't we won't give
her exact locations. We don't want people brushing her for
her for her brownies. But she's now living in a
cool place in Montana and loving her life. But she
left behind her brownie recipe, thank god. So we we
have some bitter sweet and we have some unsweetened chocolate,
(01:16):
and you know, there's a lot of fancy chocolate recipes
I'm using. I'm making brownies, So it tells you everything
about my chocolate chocolate workability. Right, Okay, wait, you've got
something going on over on the stove here. Yeah. So
we have butter and the two chocolates and we're gonna
melt them. This isn't this isn't a double boiler. So
(01:36):
it's a it's a pan on top of a pot
that has some some steaming water on top of it.
This is like the best way to melt chocolate, the
best way to meld chocolate because it um, it won't
sort of separate the chocolate. Would you just put on
top of the butter. This is espresso powder. This is
an instant espresso powder one of the things that you'll
see in a lot of recipes, especially like chocolate recipes,
(01:57):
brownie recipes. Is a espresso instant. I So it just
brings out the flavor of the chocolate. It's got a
great affinity for it. Cool that part, I know. Yeah.
All right, So we're gonna let the butter and the
two chocolates and the espresso powder melt, okay, and then
in another bowl, we have some sugar and some brown sugar.
(02:17):
Don't forget the chocolates we're using and basically have no
sugar in. And then a couple of teaspoons of vanilla.
How many eggs, whole eggs? Four whole eggs. This is
a really good brownie, reste. I mean, this is not
a cakey brownie. This is a fudgy brown Yeah. It
(02:39):
tastes like chocolate, which is like one of the things
I want to talk to you about when it comes
to chocolate, because how do you feelbout chocolate? It's very
important to me, really, I love chocolate. When you when
you look at a bar of chocolate and you reverse
the process of where it came from, you would never
believe that what was gonna what was gonna look like.
(03:02):
So it starts with this fruit called the cocow plant.
And then inside the cocow plant there are seeds that
are like they look like they're covered in some like
some white blaze of some sort, you know, and you know,
basically what you do is you take the seeds out
and then you ferment them, and then you roast them,
(03:23):
and then you crack them, and then you separate them
from you know, from the from the nibs, and then
you take the nibs of the chocolate and then you
crunch them, you crush them into into basically into into chocolate,
and um, you know, the cocoa bean is cut is
it's like half cocoa butter, half um cocoa butter cocoa powder,
(03:46):
you know what I'm saying. You know. So then like
then there's different grades of chocolate in terms of like sweetness, etcetera.
You know, you start with milk chocolate and that has
like either powdered milk or liquid milk or condensed milk
in it. You know, it's it's more it's east of
the wall, of course. And then there's dark chocolate, and
it's based on you know, it's a very high percentage
of cocoa um and fat content is the is used
(04:10):
for you know, from from the cocoa butter. And then
white chocolate really isn't classically chocolate at all. It's basically sugar,
milk and cocoa butter. And then have you seen this
ruby chocolate lately. Yeah, it's made from a from a
from a ruby cocoa bean, and it's got like this
son of like ruby color ruby, yeah, ruby chocolate, and
(04:31):
it's got like kind of a sweet and sour flavor
to it. It's really beautiful. You can you can find
it cool. It's like pink almost. So basically the processes.
You take the cocoa pods, you crack it open. Um.
I mean you you take the cocoa bean, you crack
it open, you get the pods. It's like these fruits.
You know, the seeds, the seeds inside, You ferment them.
(04:53):
Then you you separate the shells from the cocoa nibs.
Then you grind the cocoa nibs into this you know, chocolate,
and you temper the chocolate. Then you add sugar and
then it's like semi sweet, bittersweet. It all depends on
how much sugar versus the first of the cocoa. But
like when you look at a cocoa bean, you would
never think that you'd get like a chocolate bar out
(05:13):
of it. At that point, it's insane, it's totally nuts. Um. So,
what are some of your favorite chocolate things to eat?
Some of my favorite chocolate things, well this is now
one of them. Um. But I mean, you know my
favorite chocolates I do that you always give me for
Christmas roche Oh yeah, oh my god, so those have
(05:39):
their hazelnuts, right, it's hazel nuts and chocolate. Yeah, it's
like a new teller piece of chocolate. Basically my favor.
Those are my favorite. But I love a chocolate cake.
See I don't. I have a I have a I
have a kind of uh like a love and hate
thing about chocolate. Let me tell you about this. What
(05:59):
if you talk to chocolate aficionados, they will tell you
that dark chocolate is the only chocolate wrong. What do
you mean wrong? In my opinion, I mean I'm getting
I'm getting to that. You know, people who are really like,
you know, true chocolate aficionados really believe that, you know,
for chocolate to have quality has to be very dark,
(06:21):
deep bitter chocolate. And I and and coffee drinkers say
the same thing. I say, No, I want I want
to enjoy what I'm eating. And a lot of times
you'll like, I'll eat chocolate that's so dark and bitter,
and I'm like, I don't even like this. But but
also like, um, I feel the same thing about coffee.
(06:42):
You know, you go, you go to some coffee shop
and it's like, you know, they have these most exotic
beans and they roast them in a certain way, and
on and on and on, and they're like they're brewed
for a really long time. Like I don't like that,
and and it's just like it doesn't it's not satisfying.
So you know, maybe I'm just like Woos when it
comes to like chocolate and coffee. But I just I
don't know. I want I want a pleasurable experience. I agree,
(07:06):
And like if I'm eating, if I'm eating like a
piece of chocolate that has like a caramel, like a
caramel piece of chocolate, then I can I can do
the dark chocolate because I think it's a nice balance.
But if it's just a plain piece of chocolate, like
I'm it's milk. Yeah, so but that but like chocolate
purists will tell you that we're not right. But that's okay,
that's fine. So we have the we have the white sugar,
(07:32):
the brown sugar, and some eggs and some vanilla salt. Nice.
We're just gonna melt this and then we're gonna get
a baking pan with some parchment paper. You're using chocolate
(07:53):
bars for this instead of chocolate chips. Does that matter?
It doesn't really matter because you're gonna melt it. Anyway,
do you make brown soopie? No? Actually, I'm not really
that big of a brownie fan because usually it's too cakey. Yeah. Yeah,
I'm liking the sound of these brownies. This is like
the extent of my chocoate work. Really good. I mean,
(08:19):
you know, I can like, I like making like those
malted chocolate cakes where they you know who invented that,
John George. Yeah, I remember when it first came out,
we were like basically had just opened. He was doing
it at Jojo Basic Grill and Jojo open the same year.
It was the year like nothing opened in New York
was We're in the middle of recession, so Basic Real
(08:39):
open and Jojo open, and we got the two of
those two restaurants. Got a lot of attention to the
meeting because nothing else opened. And he came out with
this chocolate cake. And I told my patiu chef at
the time, Wayne Brackman, Remember Wayne, I was like, we
have to do our mastic girl version of this cake.
So we made like an ancho chili chocolate version of it.
Was so good. If I'm going to eat something chocolate,
(09:22):
I wanted to taste like chocolate. Okay, Well yeah, so
like some like a lot of chocolate ice cream doesn't
taste like chocolate. It tastes very deluded. It's almost like
vanilla that's kind of has like a brownish color to it,
you know, it doesn't it doesn't taste like chocolate. So
like I want, like when I eat a latto, I
(09:44):
want a dark chocolate cholatto. Now that said, there's a
lot of sugar in there, and you know, there's you know,
there's you know, cream, et cetera. So it's sort of
chilling out the bitterness of it all. But the deep,
rich flavor of the chocolate is what I'm looking for.
There was a place, a steakhouse made me sure if
they're if they're still there, but it's called the Strip
House on Twelfth Street, and you have this they had
(10:08):
They had a chocolate layer cake there. It had four
thousand layers. Yea, so good. It was ridiculous, and I
tried to get my Pactiy chef to make it. It
never really got to the point where I was completely
satisfied with it. I mean, we we got we got
like we just couldn't make enough layers of it. But
it was so so good. But it had like that
(10:28):
deep rich chocolate flavor. I mean also like when I
when I'm eating like hot chocolate, like I want to
taste good quality cocoa powder. And I wanted to taste Yes,
I wanted to be like basically like liquid chocolate. Yeah,
I agree, But I also is there a dog in here? Wait?
Did not you bring home a friend? We? You know
(10:51):
what's interesting is there was a meme that was going
around during the holidays that was like, like, if you
make hot chocolate with like hot chocolate with Walt, if
you're making hotocolate with water, like you should be locked
up or something like that, Like you no, you have
to make it with milk. I made, so I make
mine with milk. Christina wants oat milk? It works? Is
it good? I don't know. You wouldn't know. But you
(11:15):
know what I really loved when I was younger was
chocolate mouse. I was going to talk to you about that.
I loved chocolate mouse. Alex Goanna Shelley and I talked
about this all the time. She lived in a building
in New York City where a friend of mine lived
when we were with teenagers. We didn't know each other then,
and I remember going to that this my friend's house
(11:39):
we had it was like a bunch of kids there
and I made chocolate moose. I was like seventeen years old. Yeah,
and um chocolate mouse again. You're right, like you need
a deep rich chocolate because you're gonna put cream and
egg whites in it. It's got to fight through all
that fat richness. But if you don't use, you know,
a good quality, deep dark chocolate, then you can't taste
(12:02):
it right. Then it just tastes like whipped cream. No.
I love chocolate moose so much. How about chocolate cream pie? Yeah?
So do you like chocolate pudding? I like homemade chocolate pudding. Well,
what do you think I was talking about? Well, most
people don't make their own homemade chocolate pudding, buy chocolate pudding.
So like I feel like I used to have, like
(12:23):
chocolate pudding, like storebought chocolate pudding. Putt in like my
lunch box. So we have something so we call it's
called bundino. Putting is is bundino in Italian. So we
have we have a chocolate bundino in a maufie and
we were making like, you know, I wanted this on
the menu. And while we were making it, I had
my Paci chef make it like thirty five times because
it's just not it was not getting enough chocolate flavor.
(12:45):
And she kept saying to me, like, you have to
be kidding me. I'm like, no, when you stick your fork,
when you stick your spoon in this thing, I want
you to like close your eyes and taste chocolate in
the most incredible way. And I think that that's really important.
A lot of times people miss that, Like it's almost
like they think chocolate's gonna take care of itself, doesn't
um same thing with gelato and sorbet. Yeah. I like
chocolate sorbet a lot. It's one of my favorite things.
(13:07):
But it's got again, it's got to have a deep ridge.
So the butter and the chocolate are making this beautiful
melted goodness. And you know you do it over a
double boiler, so that so that's so that the melting
process is gentle. If you do this right in the pan,
(13:29):
it's a chance it would break or burn scorts the chocolate. Okay,
so we're gonna pour the chocolate into the sugar and
egg mixture and half the flower and the other half
(13:50):
of the flower. What does that semi sweet chocolate. So
basically using three kinds of chocolate unsweetened. It is sweet,
and there's some semi sweet chocolate that we're gonna use. Um,
we're just gonna cut it into cut into shards and
(14:10):
then fold it into the chocolate batter and that's the
brownie batter and then three fifty degrees minutes and then
you have to let him cool for like four hours
because it's really dense chocolate. You wanted to set it
(14:32):
would parch my paper lines baking dish, and we want
to smooth it outside even big seapingly pretty easy. Yeah, definitely.
I've never made brownies like this. Yeah, and you get
some vanilla gelato brownie Sunday. Put some nuts on. These
(14:54):
people who says you can't bake a lot of people
put in the appisode. Okay, so we used to do
it upside down. Chocolate cream pie. Do you remember this
is so good? Yeah? American where the crust was a
thin layer on top and then the chocolate pudding was
(15:17):
in the bottom. It was so good. I had it
every time I was there. Here's one of my other
favorite chocolate dishes, chocolate and coconut bread pudding. Mm hmm okay,
never had that so good. I mean basically, make like
a chocolate custard with stale bread. You let it steep,
(15:37):
You put like you know, a little coconut milk in there,
some coconut flakes, etcetera. Bake it. It's amazing. And your
notes over there. Do you have the chocolate eggs? What's that?
The doctors used to make me chocolate eggs. Ginormous chocolate
eggs for Easter. No, no, no no, he used to make
you a life size bunny and eggs they were huge
(15:59):
and there were there was chocolate in them. I have
to write. So that was when How old were you?
That made me believe in the Easter bunny? That is
for sure. I took so Jacques Terrez, who was one
of the great chocolate tears ever and also pastry chefs
and nicest, one of the nicest men um he was
(16:19):
when I met Jock, he was the pastry chef Atles Cirque, Okay,
years ago, and then he went on his own and
he was like the wooly Wonka of he had you.
You were I mean you were so will be four
media like six or seven, but he had you. He
had me bring you to his Brooklyn in Dumbo, and
(16:41):
he made chocolate with you, like he made stuff with you,
but there was he had. He has like this chocolate
fountain that's constantly tempering the chocolate. And I remember you
just sticking your finger in the under the frosts of
the chocolate. I was like, Sophie, come on, that's not
very sanitary. But he's like he is like he has
like that magic to him, like as a person, like
(17:03):
you feel like he really is like a Willie Walk
in his sense. Yeah, for sure. I also like using
chocolate and savory dishes like I I love making mole sauces.
I think it's, you know, a great use of chocolate
to finish the sauce, especially a spicy sauce that has
all these chilies kind of running through it. It's one
of those things that people think of mola as a
chocolate sauce. It's not. It's a sauce that is sometimes
(17:26):
finished with chocolate, especially if it's if it's a deep
red red or almost black mole. And um, it's really
used that to sort of be a good counterbalance and
a foil to all the chili peppers that are running
through the sauce. Just kind of gives it a nice coating. Yeah,
when I was studying abroad in London, Um, we went
to the Cadbury factory. It was so it's because they
(17:49):
they've turned it into like a museum. Um. Also like
so you can like walk through and see all the
steps and whatnot. And I love Cadburry chocolate. I thought
it was it was so cool to see the whole process.
Well also, you know there's there's this whole art form
of what they what they call chocolate work. And you
see these chocolate tears like making like the most amazing
(18:10):
things that chocolate. They use it as like they use
it as like paint or and or like to create sculptures.
You know. It's like, um, that's that's a business that
I'm not in. Um, I can tell you that much.
That's not that's not for me. But but I just
love where they manipulated chocolates. They and like you'll see
like you know, they'll make blue chocolates and red chocolates.
(18:31):
You know, they take white they usually take white chocolate
and put some kind of food coloring. But then you know,
everything is chocolate, but it has different colors and textures
and shapes, and sizes. It's amazing for your restaurants. Do
you think it's important to always have something chocolate on
the dessert menu? A million percent. Absolutely. I'm not. I'm
not a restaurateur, but I also feel that way. Well,
right now we have that chocolate Bundino, which is very
(18:52):
rich and deep in chocolate flavor. For sure. I mean
it's it's um, yeah, it's it's imperative for sure. Yeah,
I'm always looking for the chocolate item on the menu. Yeah.
I mean, look, I mean people there were there were
people that are just obsessed with chocolate, and I get it. Yeah.
I used to make chocolate fundu a lot when I
was little with my with my friends, we used to
(19:13):
make and stuff like that, or like marshmallows. Yeah that works. Um,
have you ever made your own hot fudge? It's like
sweet and condensed milk and melted chocolate. So sure you have.
I have. I'm a Sunday expert, exactly. I like a
good I like a good chocolate. I'm not just saying this.
(19:50):
This is the best brownie I've ever had. You can
thank Stephanie Bangs. It is. I love that. It's the
consistency is more fudge like, yeah, I mean, I think
there's two kind of brownies in the world. A brownie
that is cakey and a brownie that's fudgie. And I think, like,
I'm just on the side of yours, which is that
I wanted to taste like very chocolate foote and and
(20:11):
I can't taste It's it's like it's not overpowering, but
I can't taste the espresso. And I love that. Well,
the espresso brings out the chocolate flavor and it gives
it a little bit of bitterness that that is really nice.
It's a it's a good bidder. Exactly is red velvet chocolate?
(20:32):
So red velvet is actually the original red velvet. And
I'm gonna get this wrong so some I'm sure I'll
be corrected on the internet in five seconds. But from
what I was told, Red Velvet happened by mistake really
because for whatever the situation was, they were doing something
(20:54):
with cocoa powder and some vinegar and the chemical reaction
turned it this sort of deep red color and that's
that's how it was born. So it's really it's a
cake that's based on coco in some in some ways,
you know, it's um it's it's really a weird concept
(21:14):
because you know, it hasn't it doesn't really have a
ton of flavor. Um, but it's a cool thing to
look at. You know, we red velvet cake yesterday, I
know at the I V. But they had but they're
but they're but they're cream cheese filling. What was pink? Yeah?
I like the kind of contrast of like the bright white. Yeah. Yeah,
me too. Oh you know what else I love that.
(21:35):
I'm pretty sure it was that Bar American. Was the
chocolate the German chocolate cake that was sick? Yeah, so
you know it's it's actually, um, it's actually Germans chocolate cake. Oh,
it's not a German chocolate cake. It's German. No, it's
it's possessive. It's Germans chocolate. Interesting, Okay, it's a brand
(22:00):
or a kind of chocolate and so and basically I
think it's like I think it's like chocolate and coconut
and p cons is what a German chocolate cake is. Yeah,
well it was so good where a Bar America? Yeah,
absolutely good. At first, we um, we didn't have it
on the menu, and then I did a throw down
with it. Oh really, yeah, we have to like get
(22:21):
this cake going. Yeah, it's so good. I like a
chocolate cake for my birthday. What does it look like? Chocolate?
I don't know, but I like a light, like layered
with what like a three layer cake. I like like
crunchy chocolate in the middle, basically chocolate and chocolate. Wait,
what is when you're eating an ice cream cake and
it's like chocolate crunch in the middle? What is that?
(22:42):
I have no idea, no idea. Come on, you're the
ice cream man. It's probably like fiatine or something like that.
What is that? It's like a very thin, crispy like
um pastry. Oh, okay, that you know, it's like, um,
it's very crunchy. Okay. I don't know. I really don't know.
(23:03):
I don't make ice cream cakes, not anymore, make ace
cream Sundays. What about chocolate chip cookies? I mean, probably
the one of the best inventions of all time. Do
you use my recipe? Yeah? Your recipe is so good,
but you have to let it rest one night. Do
you do that? Yeah? Unless I come and just steal
some dough from you that you already have in the freezer.
(23:24):
I've done that before, I know, But I think that
chocolate chip cookies, Like, what's the what kind of chocolate
is in those cookies? Again? I think it's semi sweet.
I believe you have your cookbook right. Actually, one of
my favorite chocolate chip cookies is Jacqueturrez's cookie. Well, I'm
sure because it has shards of chocolate running through it,
which is so good, big shards. Oh yeah, you mentioned
(23:46):
Jock in this. It's semi sweet and milk chocolate. What
is read the read the paragraph, this paragraph. This is
my favorite chocolate chip cookie, well, other than Jock dorres Is,
and I always have the dough in my fridge or
freezer for me to take. Did you know that the
longer the dose sits, the better the cookie is. If
you're making these and planning on eating them right away,
(24:08):
start at least one day. Start at least one day
and perfectly up to three days in advance, and let
the dose sit in the fridge so the flavors intensify. Yeah,
they're good, They're really good. The brown sugar is also
a well you asked me that the other day about
you know, brown sugar versus you know, white granulated sugar.
It definitely hasn't much Fritcher flavor to it. Oh, this
(24:28):
is so good. The chocolate hazelnut crema catalana. Oh, so,
crema carta llana is where was this that gatto? So
the crema carta llana is a it's a custard. It's
like Spain's version of you know, crembroulet. So good, it's
so good. What kind of chocar is in that one?
(24:49):
Bitter sweet? Yes? So it's a deep it's a deep
richer chocolate. Oh my god, that's so good. I can't
believe I forgot about that one. I always ordered that too.
Oh what about a what about a chocolate martini? What
about it? Grandma's specialty? That was my that was my
mother's move. Should we go to the bar Atlantic City
(25:11):
at my restaurant in order chocolate martinis? Like one after
the other? Chocolate syrup? Could dive a dark chocolate liqueur
vodka three sixty double chocolate vodka. Oh man, all right,
there's a vodka for every situation, for sure. Cheers to that.
I think what I'm gonna do is get you a
(25:32):
for your birthday coming up. I'm gonna get you a
chocolate sink, a chocolate fountain. Perfect, so you can just
have the chocolate like just kind of rotating through all night.
I think that's a great idea. Always Hungry is created
by Bobby Flay and Sophie Flay. Our executive producer is
Christopher Hasiotis. Always Hungry is produced, edited, and mixed by
(25:54):
Jonathan Honks Dressler. Always Hungry is engineered by Sophie Flay.
For more podcast in my Heart Radio, visit the I
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