October 5, 2021 • 27 mins
In this episode, Bobby and Sophie tackle an ever evolving debate: Meat vs No Meat. Bobby and Sophie discuss their thoughts on alternatives meat products, their preferences for vegtable dishes, and listen to the end to hear how Sophie enjoy’s Bobby’s veggie burger, inspired by an episode of Beat Bobby Flay.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
All right, guys, welcome to Always Hungry from My Heart Radio.
My name is Bobby Flay, and I'm viewing my daughter
and co host. I'm Staphi Flag and I'm Always Hungry.
Sophie and I gather around my stove to cook together. Well,
you cook, I asked the questions, and eat the food.
If does any food left, we come to the table
together to share a meal, connect as a family, and
tell the stories that matter to us. All Right, today
(00:26):
we're talking about a theme that I'm I'm really interested
to hear your your thoughts on. Yeah, I mean it's
really about like eating meat versus no meat. No meat
is definitely getting the momentum, but there's a lot of
meat eaters out there who will beg to differ. Yeah,
there's there's an interesting wave and I'm excited to hear
your thoughts. Okay, what are these patties here? These are
(00:51):
veggie burgers. I don't think you ever made me a
veggie burger. Like, I know you, I know you have
them at Bobby's Burgers, but I don't know that you've
ever made me a veggie Yeah, and the only reason
why they're at Bobby's Burgers is because they have been
my mistake. I mean, for a while, I was like,
I'm not making any veggie burgers, and you know that
was shortsighted, because so it's not that it's stubborn. I
(01:15):
was just like, you know, I really have to make
a veggie burger. So the answer is I'm making him now.
Because number one, I was on Beat Bobby Flay and
somebody challenged me to a veggie burger. Really yeah, so
I had to make it on the spot, and I
was like, oh God, seriously, It's like one of those
(01:36):
moments where I was just like, can't we just make
a beef burger? Get on with it, you know. But
of course, like the guy challenged me to a to
a to a veggie burger, and so I had to
think about like what what I was gonna do, And
so here's what I came up with. It came up
with um mushrooms, portobello mushrooms or cremini mushrooms. I can't
(01:59):
remember what I what I did on the show that
had UM. I cooked. I cooked the creamy mushrooms and
then I cooked them in barbecue sauce after I cooked them,
so I had like that smoky flavor to them. Then
I cooked some red keinoa and some chick peas that
I purade, and then I combined all the together and
(02:21):
I made a patty out of it. And then what
I did was I made like a like a like
a little bit of a crust for it, using keenoa
flour and an egg to coat it, and then fried it.
So is that what we have here? That's what we
have here? And these now we sell these at Bobby's
Burgers UM and Frank's, Like we just opened in Yankee
(02:45):
Stadium and on the very first day, one third of
the orders were vegue burgers. I was, like, I have
to say, like, I was kind of shocked. That's interesting
to me. So this is obviously very different than like
an impossible burder or beyond meat burger, you know, which
um you know is trying to emulate the look and
(03:07):
I guess taste of a beef burger. That's not what
this is. This is this is a veggie burger that
tastes like things that is made out of you know. Alright,
So today's episode is about meat versus no meat. And
there's a lot of different categories when it comes to this,
because there is just being a vegetarian or or one
(03:29):
step further, which is being a vegan. Of course. Then
there's fake meat as they call it. Then there's like
you know, protein substitutes, things like tofu and tempe, and
then there's like also like other meats, impersonating other meats,
which you know, I'm still getting past chicken sausage, like
(03:53):
turkey bacon. I mean, it's it's just never gonna happen
for me. I like chicken sausage. Chicken sausage kind of works.
It can be dry though, because you don't have that fat,
the fattiness from like from the classic pork a lamp sausage.
But look, I mean, I think what's happened is that
it's made the world a much more interesting place in
kitchens and restaurants because it's made chefs it's challenge chefs
(04:17):
to listen. It wasn't that long ago that I remember
a vegetarian would come into the restaurant and it would beat.
That person would be like singled out, we have a
vegetarian table, my stuff, What what's he going to eat? Steam? Spinach? Obviously,
like seriously, like that's that was the extent of it.
(04:37):
You know, to be perfectly honest with you, Like we
as chefs, like I'm not I can't speak for everybody,
but like in general, we did not think about the
vegetarian diet whatsoever. Forget about vegan vegan and or now
you know, meet substitutes and plant based everything, you know.
(05:00):
So you know, I'm actually involved in a plant based
frozen dessert. You can't even call it ice cream, right,
but it's you know, it's basically emulating the ice cream
and so but it all makes it's all, it's all
starting to make a lot more sense to me and
I'm sure everybody else who's who's cooking in this world,
because well, first of all, it challenges you to become creative,
(05:24):
to create dishes that are you know, plant based or
vegetarian based, that are flavorful and interesting and you know,
have the same wow factor as you know, like a
big steak in the middle of a plate, or a
slice lamb dish or a beautiful piece of fish or
(05:44):
whatever it is. You know, creating vegetables and making them
the stars of the plate is where we are today.
But you know, it's interesting to me, though, is that
you would always say that the at Gatto, the pea
was one of the ordered dishes that you had. It
was the most sort of okay, and that's a vegetable dish. Yeah,
(06:06):
so that but that surprised you. I remember, shocked me
beyond belief. Yeah, I mean it was so good, of course,
of course, but it was It's a callin wild mushim
pier with crispy art chokes and and I had a
saffron sauce on it. And you know, it was one
of those things where like Goato was not a full
on Spanish restaurant, but it really it was about the Mediterranean,
(06:26):
and so Spain obviously played a role there. And we
wanted I wanted to do a pier, but I didn't
want to do sort of a classic pier with the
shellfish and the chicken. I had done that, you know,
fifteen years at Bolo, and I wanted to do something
a little bit more sort of of the moment. So
we went Kalin Wild Mushroom and I remember a few
(06:47):
days before the restaurant opened, I was like not happy
with the dish, and I literally said to Christine Sanchez,
who was like my culinary concietti, I said, I'm taking
this dish with the menu. It's one of the things
I do. I mean, I just did it, moufie, Like
five dishes did not make the menu. And it's I mean,
it's an edit game. You start with a lot and
you and you will look down to the things that
(07:08):
you think are really good. I mean, and these are
dishes that I tried to make better, and we did
make them better, but they never they didn't quite make
the cut, and I just instead of like forcing the issue,
I cut bait. There'll be another dish. Yeah, of course,
you know the dish another day. So the Caliba Motion
paiea almost didn't make the cut, and then Christine Sanchez said,
(07:30):
I want you to let's look at it a little differently. Anyway,
we figured it out. She was very helpful with it.
And every single night, Sophie, every single night that restaurant
was open, the Kalibald Motion pie was the number one
entree undefeated. It's insane. Note at the time, not at
that time, every night, and to think you almost took
(07:52):
it off. Yeah, and it's a vegetarian paea. I just
think people like kale. Yeah, you know, what I like
is doing is doing like veggie tacos, like Colie flower
tacos like cauliflower tacos, mushroom tacos, sweet potato tacos. So good. Well,
I find the two ingredients that I used his go
(08:13):
to let's just say meat substitutions, because I don't like
using things like I'm just not a I'm just not
a tofu tempered either kind of guy. I can't do it.
That said. You know, Christina, you know, eats a lot
of food like that. She calls it fake chicken and
fake this and fake that, which I don't you know,
I don't get. So I said to hersel I was like,
(08:35):
you know what, I'm gonna make you a tofu dish,
and she's like, you gotta be kidding me. So here
was my tofu dish. I took tofu. First of all,
I wasn't really sure what kind of tofu to buy,
so I didn't know if it was silk and tofu
or firm tofu or whatever. So she told me to
buy the firm a tofu. So I bought that, drained
it out, sliced it, and I seared it in a
(08:57):
in a cash iron pants. So I got crusty. Okay,
she actually thought that I should have seed it more.
But that was the idea. And I made a red
curry with with broccolini and the tofu. So that was
and and then like some steamed rice. It was good.
I mean, I love the curry and the broccoli and
the rice. I don't love the tofu. But some people
(09:20):
want to feel like they're not being left out of
the burger game, even if it's total and they shouldn't be. Yeah,
I get it, but I just you're not feeling it.
(09:50):
But so basically, yeah, so we have the mushrooms with
the barbecue sauce, and we have the chickpeas, which actually
helps bind it and hold it together, and then we
have the quenoa. So I'm going to first of all,
I'm gonna like whisk this egg. I have a shell
in the egg. It's so annoying. Do eat veggie burgers? Yeah?
(10:14):
I do. Like you order them, you order it, yes,
And here's the thing that I here's my problem. Okay,
I'm not a veggie burger eater for the most part,
so I didn't really have a lot of experience with it,
to be perfectly honest. Um, but one of the things
(10:37):
that I've heard from like more than not, is that
people don't like them, Like they're always not satisfied with
what they order. Okay, So I always thought to myself, well,
I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to
have something that people aren't satisfied with. So what people think? Okay,
(10:57):
what You're dipping the potty into the egg right now,
and to the egg, and then I have I don't
have chemo flower, but I have rice brown rice flour.
So I'm just gonna sprinkle this on a little bit
and then I'm gonna I'm gonna put it in some
canola oil and fry it. And the idea is like,
give this thing some texture interesting, you know, because like
(11:19):
I always find like if it's just like a bunch
of black beans or something like that, it doesn't have
any texture to it. And it's true, and that's a
good point. Yeah, alternatives aren't always satisfying enough. And then
you're like, why did I even do this? Well that's
my that's exactly my point. So so so basically what
I'm doing here is this burger. You know, all the
(11:40):
ingredients inside are cooked, you know, the mushrooms are cooked
with the barbecue sauce. The chem is cooked, and the
chickens are cooked and they're just pure. So everything is cooked,
so nothing really has to cook, so to speak. So
I'm not trying to get it some medium fare or
a medium or something like that. Basically, it's just I'm
cooking it through and I'm giving I'm giving it a
(12:01):
crust on the outside. It looks really good. You say
that surprisingly, because I'm surprised. Okay, now, I mean is
there any do you ever choose alternatives? Do I? Yeah,
I know I eat vegetables. Yeah, well, I think it's
interesting the term that you're using. Uh. Yeah, I mean,
(12:24):
like so many of my dishes on my menu at
a moufie, I mean basically it's a Pasctarian menu. Now
that's said. We have steaks because we're in Vegas. Yeah,
and we sell a lot of steaks. We have three
different steaks. We have a filet New York Strip, and
we have a Ribby steak, and we have a chicken dish,
and we sell you know a ton of those. But
but the majority of what we sell is fish, you know,
(12:47):
fish on the grill or in the oven, and you
know a ton of vegetables. We have a lot of
vegetable side dishes. And then you know, lots of salads
and lots of pastas, and some of the pastas have
fish in them. None of the none of them have
red meat in them. It's only fish or shellfish and vegetables.
And that's it. That's the way I want to eat.
I want to eat fish and vegetables for the most part.
(13:08):
But that said, every once in a while, like once
every ten days, I want a big gass steak. I
just do. Okay, so your your veggie burger is keen
wat chickpeas, mushrooms. But what's in like an impossible burger?
It's plant It's a plant based it's plants. But what
(13:29):
is it? I don't know. It's proprietary, isn't it. Did
they tell you what the ingredients are? Let me see
if I can look look it up, because I think
that that would be really interesting to know. I mean,
how do you feel about like fake thereso or turkey
bacon or turkey bacon? I'm cool with you are to me,
there are certain things about certain things that are why
(13:49):
you eat them. I eat bacon because it's smoky and crispy.
Turkey bacon cannot get crisp. I mean, no, not in
the way that bacon can, but I still like the flavor.
How do you feel about eggplant? I love egg plant.
I don't know how to make eggplant. Well. I think
one of the dishes you should have in your repertoires,
the eggplant bolonnais that I make. Oh my god, that
(14:10):
is one of my favorite dishes. It's it's it's a
really good dish. And now it's made. It's made its
way to amalfi, but again, really good vegetarian dish. And
you know, like eggplant, it has that meaty texture to it.
You know, it's kind of like mushrooms. I can't I
can't figure out what isn't an impossible burger? They don't
tell you what do they say? They have to say
(14:31):
something ingredient wise, don't they Let's see here nothing. I
can't figure it out. What are the impossible burger ingredients?
Protein from soy and potatoes, flavor from hem the molecule
that makes meat taste well, meaty fat from coconut and
sunflower oils make its sizzle on the griddle, binders, something
(14:53):
called the thick I don't know how to pronounce this,
and food starch hold it together. See can make anything
you want, bills, kebabs, patties, and more. Are you reading
this on their on their website, here's the ingredient list. Water, soy, protein, concentrate,
coconut oil, sunflower oil, natural flavors, two or less of
(15:15):
potato protein, myth, methylas celus, east extract culture, dextros, food starts,
modified soy, something salt mixed, some antioxidant, soy protein isolate,
vitamins and minerals like zinc and lutinate, and then nyacin hydrochloride,
(15:36):
vitamin B six, ribo flaving, ribo flavor, and vitamin B two,
vitamin B twelve. It contains soy and it contains an
alum derivative. So alum is like you know, it's the
family that includes like garlic and onion shouts and things
like that. So if you have any any allergies that
concerns about specific ingredients, they always recommend speaking to whoever
is serving your meal. Well, okay, a lot of ingredients.
(15:59):
It is lot of a great you know, they've created
this phenomenon of people that what I hear people say
when they eat it is that they feel like they're
eating a beef burger. So I understand the appeal. So, yes,
I'm gonna keep cooking this burger so it's nice and crusty,
(16:23):
just until it kind of cooks inside. You think it
looks good, Yeah, it does look good. So what I'm
gonna do is I'm gonna put a little bit of
this secret sauce from the bottom. Well, usually I cook
it with um. Usually I make it with mayonnaise, red pepper,
mostly red pepper, and pure and chipotle puree, which is
(16:44):
like what we use on our fries. But I also
put it put it on my burgers now. And but
I didn't have Chipotle in my house, which is shocking.
But I do have saracchia, so sar rachi and mayonnaise
um on the bottom. And then do you put cheese
on your bride veggie burgers? Yeah, so I'm gonna put
(17:06):
a piece of American cheese on on this, on this
veggie burger as well. So when you look at this,
do you think yourself, I'm excited about this, Yeah, and
excited about this. Actually I'm just gonna eat it. I'm
excited about this. It's really brown. Now, it's the you know,
it's the color of of like a beef burger. Yeah, exactly,
(17:28):
but we want to make sure that it's not going
to fall apart. I'm not worried's gonna fall apart, because
that's what I did. I bounded with the keen one.
Now the keena and the chickpeas are holding the mushrooms together.
It's really the chickpeas, I think, more than anything else.
You know, kind of access like the thing that's binding
it together. But it's not, you know, it's not it's
not like flour and egg running through there, you know.
(17:50):
So it's like it's pure vegetables. So you get like
mushrooms have a very meaty texture to them and they're earthy,
so they really not that they take the place of meat,
but it's like one of those ingredients that is neaty,
so to speak. And then you have the smokiness of
the barbecue sauce that gives you know, it kind of
(18:12):
emulates the smokiness of the of cooking a burger around
a grill, so to speak, or something like that. How
long are you leaving this song for? Like, I'm like,
what are you waiting for? Here? It's cold inside because
I had in the refrigerator. I mean, really, um, you.
Once you put these together, you want them to chill
a little bit it so it might be cold in
(18:33):
the middle. Do you care? Yeah, okay, no one wants
a cold burger. I'm excited to try this. Yeah, all right.
(18:59):
So I'm gonna put the cheese on here. What cheese
did you put on? Oh? He's American, And let the
cheese melts, and then you're gonna have a burger. And
I'm gonna put some Iceberg lettuce because iceberg is the
best lettuce for a burger because it's crunchy. Tomato, yeah, okay, onion, yeah, okay,
bloat it up all the Yeah, that looks great. What
(19:20):
do you think, Sylphie? Looking good? Dad? You know what thing?
You're two? They forced my hand in the veggie burger.
Where'd you get this recipe from? What do you mean like?
I made it on the spot. That's pretty crazy. I
had to. I wasn't given a choice. That's what the
guy challenged me to. All right. So, but had you
been thinking about veggie burgers at all before that? That's
(19:42):
so interesting to me. So you want to catch up
on it or do you want because you already put
the sauce that good Is that enough sauce? I think
so you want on this side too, We've made it
to the bun. You want onion, tomato, some lettuce, a
little onion, all right? Have to give me your honest
opinion of this. It looks pretty good. What are you smelling?
(20:06):
I'm just seeing what it smells like. Oh my god,
it's so hot. It's hot. It's good. Really, yeah, I
just good. What do you like about it? Does it
taste like a burger? No, it's a veggie burger. Yeah,
I mean it tastes like chickpeas to me. So it
feels like it feels fal awful que. It's very flawful esque. Okay,
(20:27):
I don't mind that. No, I don't either. I don't
mind that. If I know what I'm getting, I don't
want to be surprised. But in terms of like, I guess,
what I really want to know is, as far as
veggie burgers go, is it possible? Totally? Totally, and we
serve a version as burger and people seem to like it.
(20:48):
It's not what I would order, ever, No, I mean,
this isn't the same thing, But like, I feel like
I'd rather have like a fried tomato sandwich or like
a fried tomato edgy burger patty is sort of thing. Well,
I can't tell if you like it. You know, you've
had three bites of it. I do like it. I
probably wouldn't order it though it sounds great. I'm sorry.
(21:13):
Well there you go. It is good. I mean, do
you find yourself eating less meat these days? Yeah? Why
what's your what's your reasoning? Is it about just taste preference? No,
I mean it's you know, health, health. Yeah, I mean
that being said, I don't. I don't like a diet
by any means or cut things out, but I definitely
(21:33):
try to eat like a little I don't try. I
try not to eat too much red meat. I mean
I love red meat, I love burger, I love a steak.
But yeah, I try not to eat eat too much
of it. I'm very vegetable forward. You are, Yeah, yeah,
in a big way. I know. What about Like I
noticed the other day, like you you you put some
cash you cheese in my refrigerator. So good. I love.
(21:56):
But I'm also really interested in alternatives. Like know, not
everyone that you find is good but or is to
your you know, preference. But I'm really interested in the
alternative movement. That being said, though there there had there
has been like a little bit of controversy in terms
of how much sugar is being added to these things,
(22:19):
you know, and I think that's gonna that's going to
be a big conversation in this alternative food wave. You know,
have companies been adding as much sugar as they say
they have? Have they been adding a little bit more?
You know? I think that that's kind of that's a
little bit of an issue. I mean, look, you know
it's um, you can't have it all right, I mean,
(22:42):
there's it can't be like sugar free, dairy free plant base. No, seriously, no,
I know, no, you know, unsaturated fats and then expected
to taste like anything, right, Like, there's gotta be there's
gotta be some pain somewhere. But you know, if you want,
if you want flavor, if you want if you want
to actually enjoy what you're eating. Otherwise we're just gonna
(23:05):
be eating like frozen leaves before, you know, right, you
know what? Um? I mean, have you have you been
to any vegan restaurants or vegetarian restaurants that you think
are really doing it right? I don't think of it
that way. See, this is the thing I don't understand.
I don't understand the need to fake out what you're eating.
(23:25):
So if you want to eat a bunch of vegetables,
eat them, like you know what I'm saying. Like, there's
there's plenty of people cooking very creative dishes with vegetables
that look like themselves. Okay, they're not turned into something
to look like something else. And so like like these
fake meats, so to speak, like I'm not sure what's
(23:47):
going on there, Like what how are they processed? I
know that like a piece of broccoli is grown and
it looks like a piece of broccoli, or some colie flower,
or mushrooms or greens, kale, broccolini, tatsi, bok choy. All
these things are delicious, and there's so many ways to
(24:08):
make them. I mean asparagus, green peas, fava beans, fiddle
head ferns, carrots, baby carrots, potatoes, purple potatoes, purple sweet potatoes.
You could go on all day. But but that's my point, right.
My point is that if you want to eat healthfully
in a vegetable manner, vegan vegetarian, there are so many,
(24:31):
I think pure ways to do it. And I'm not
even talking about from a health standpoint because I'm not
really I'm not a I'm not a nutritionist, so I'm
going to leave that to them. But I just think
from a pure sensibility of like, this is a beautiful
sweet potato that I have in front of me that
was roasted, and it has a vinigrette on it with
(24:53):
some delicious apple cider vinegar and delicious olive oil and
you know, maybe some fresh herbs, I know, some pickled
vegetables on top. I mean delicious instead, you don't want
it to be masked instead? Hi, would you like the
the fake trees O waves from charrows? Wait? Wait what? No,
(25:14):
I don't no, I just don't know, thank you. So
that's just listen. I think we're in a in a
we're in a place now where you know, we're pushing
the we're pushing the envelope for meatless meals, and that
can mean lots of different things. My preferences go big
on vegetables in their natural state, you know, use them,
(25:39):
cook them, execute them, pair them with other vegetables that
play along nicely together, and then you'll have a really
I think you'll have a very wholesome, bright, flavorful, creative dinner.
I would love some Bob Joy. You would What would
(25:59):
you do with it? Oh? I have no idea? Great,
what would you do? I mean, you know, it's it's
a it's an Asian vegetable in terms of you know,
its origin. So I always think along those lines. So
I think like fresh junior, fresh garlic, scallions, soy, sesame oil,
maybe some citrus, you know, maybe some peanuts or something
(26:21):
like that. You know, like to me, that's you know,
fresh to laundro you could do some sort of you know,
curry vinegrette or something like that, Like you have like
a red curry vinigrette to go on top of it,
peanuts That sounds really good. But but seriously, but there
you go, you know, but teach his own. Everybody's love
to eat whatever they want to eat, that's true. But
(26:42):
I would like to eat some Bob Joy whip it up.
Always Hungry is created by Bobby Flay and Sophie Flay.
Our executive producer is Christopher Hasiotis. Always Hungry is produced,
edited and mixed by Jonathan Hoss Wrestler. Always Hungry is
engineered Sophie Flay for more podcasts from my heart Radio,
(27:03):
visit the i heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
All right, guys, welcome to Always Hungry from My Heart Radio.
My name is Bobby Flay, and I'm viewing my daughter
and co host. I'm Staphi Flag and I'm Always Hungry.
Sophie and I gather around my stove to cook together. Well,
you cook, I asked the questions, and eat the food.
If does any food left, we come to the table
together to share a meal, connect as a family, and
tell the stories that matter to us. All Right, today
(00:26):
we're talking about a theme that I'm I'm really interested
to hear your your thoughts on. Yeah, I mean it's
really about like eating meat versus no meat. No meat
is definitely getting the momentum, but there's a lot of
meat eaters out there who will beg to differ. Yeah,
there's there's an interesting wave and I'm excited to hear
your thoughts. Okay, what are these patties here? These are
(00:51):
veggie burgers. I don't think you ever made me a
veggie burger. Like, I know you, I know you have
them at Bobby's Burgers, but I don't know that you've
ever made me a veggie Yeah, and the only reason
why they're at Bobby's Burgers is because they have been
my mistake. I mean, for a while, I was like,
I'm not making any veggie burgers, and you know that
was shortsighted, because so it's not that it's stubborn. I
(01:15):
was just like, you know, I really have to make
a veggie burger. So the answer is I'm making him now.
Because number one, I was on Beat Bobby Flay and
somebody challenged me to a veggie burger. Really yeah, so
I had to make it on the spot, and I
was like, oh God, seriously, It's like one of those
(01:36):
moments where I was just like, can't we just make
a beef burger? Get on with it, you know. But
of course, like the guy challenged me to a to
a to a veggie burger, and so I had to
think about like what what I was gonna do, And
so here's what I came up with. It came up
with um mushrooms, portobello mushrooms or cremini mushrooms. I can't
(01:59):
remember what I what I did on the show that
had UM. I cooked. I cooked the creamy mushrooms and
then I cooked them in barbecue sauce after I cooked them,
so I had like that smoky flavor to them. Then
I cooked some red keinoa and some chick peas that
I purade, and then I combined all the together and
(02:21):
I made a patty out of it. And then what
I did was I made like a like a like
a little bit of a crust for it, using keenoa
flour and an egg to coat it, and then fried it.
So is that what we have here? That's what we
have here? And these now we sell these at Bobby's
Burgers UM and Frank's, Like we just opened in Yankee
(02:45):
Stadium and on the very first day, one third of
the orders were vegue burgers. I was, like, I have
to say, like, I was kind of shocked. That's interesting
to me. So this is obviously very different than like
an impossible burder or beyond meat burger, you know, which
um you know is trying to emulate the look and
(03:07):
I guess taste of a beef burger. That's not what
this is. This is this is a veggie burger that
tastes like things that is made out of you know. Alright,
So today's episode is about meat versus no meat. And
there's a lot of different categories when it comes to this,
because there is just being a vegetarian or or one
(03:29):
step further, which is being a vegan. Of course. Then
there's fake meat as they call it. Then there's like
you know, protein substitutes, things like tofu and tempe, and
then there's like also like other meats, impersonating other meats,
which you know, I'm still getting past chicken sausage, like
(03:53):
turkey bacon. I mean, it's it's just never gonna happen
for me. I like chicken sausage. Chicken sausage kind of works.
It can be dry though, because you don't have that fat,
the fattiness from like from the classic pork a lamp sausage.
But look, I mean, I think what's happened is that
it's made the world a much more interesting place in
kitchens and restaurants because it's made chefs it's challenge chefs
(04:17):
to listen. It wasn't that long ago that I remember
a vegetarian would come into the restaurant and it would beat.
That person would be like singled out, we have a
vegetarian table, my stuff, What what's he going to eat? Steam? Spinach? Obviously,
like seriously, like that's that was the extent of it.
(04:37):
You know, to be perfectly honest with you, Like we
as chefs, like I'm not I can't speak for everybody,
but like in general, we did not think about the
vegetarian diet whatsoever. Forget about vegan vegan and or now
you know, meet substitutes and plant based everything, you know.
(05:00):
So you know, I'm actually involved in a plant based
frozen dessert. You can't even call it ice cream, right,
but it's you know, it's basically emulating the ice cream
and so but it all makes it's all, it's all
starting to make a lot more sense to me and
I'm sure everybody else who's who's cooking in this world,
because well, first of all, it challenges you to become creative,
(05:24):
to create dishes that are you know, plant based or
vegetarian based, that are flavorful and interesting and you know,
have the same wow factor as you know, like a
big steak in the middle of a plate, or a
slice lamb dish or a beautiful piece of fish or
(05:44):
whatever it is. You know, creating vegetables and making them
the stars of the plate is where we are today.
But you know, it's interesting to me, though, is that
you would always say that the at Gatto, the pea
was one of the ordered dishes that you had. It
was the most sort of okay, and that's a vegetable dish. Yeah,
(06:06):
so that but that surprised you. I remember, shocked me
beyond belief. Yeah, I mean it was so good, of course,
of course, but it was It's a callin wild mushim
pier with crispy art chokes and and I had a
saffron sauce on it. And you know, it was one
of those things where like Goato was not a full
on Spanish restaurant, but it really it was about the Mediterranean,
(06:26):
and so Spain obviously played a role there. And we
wanted I wanted to do a pier, but I didn't
want to do sort of a classic pier with the
shellfish and the chicken. I had done that, you know,
fifteen years at Bolo, and I wanted to do something
a little bit more sort of of the moment. So
we went Kalin Wild Mushroom and I remember a few
(06:47):
days before the restaurant opened, I was like not happy
with the dish, and I literally said to Christine Sanchez,
who was like my culinary concietti, I said, I'm taking
this dish with the menu. It's one of the things
I do. I mean, I just did it, moufie, Like
five dishes did not make the menu. And it's I mean,
it's an edit game. You start with a lot and
you and you will look down to the things that
(07:08):
you think are really good. I mean, and these are
dishes that I tried to make better, and we did
make them better, but they never they didn't quite make
the cut, and I just instead of like forcing the issue,
I cut bait. There'll be another dish. Yeah, of course,
you know the dish another day. So the Caliba Motion
paiea almost didn't make the cut, and then Christine Sanchez said,
(07:30):
I want you to let's look at it a little differently. Anyway,
we figured it out. She was very helpful with it.
And every single night, Sophie, every single night that restaurant
was open, the Kalibald Motion pie was the number one
entree undefeated. It's insane. Note at the time, not at
that time, every night, and to think you almost took
(07:52):
it off. Yeah, and it's a vegetarian paea. I just
think people like kale. Yeah, you know, what I like
is doing is doing like veggie tacos, like Colie flower
tacos like cauliflower tacos, mushroom tacos, sweet potato tacos. So good. Well,
I find the two ingredients that I used his go
(08:13):
to let's just say meat substitutions, because I don't like
using things like I'm just not a I'm just not
a tofu tempered either kind of guy. I can't do it.
That said. You know, Christina, you know, eats a lot
of food like that. She calls it fake chicken and
fake this and fake that, which I don't you know,
I don't get. So I said to hersel I was like,
(08:35):
you know what, I'm gonna make you a tofu dish,
and she's like, you gotta be kidding me. So here
was my tofu dish. I took tofu. First of all,
I wasn't really sure what kind of tofu to buy,
so I didn't know if it was silk and tofu
or firm tofu or whatever. So she told me to
buy the firm a tofu. So I bought that, drained
it out, sliced it, and I seared it in a
(08:57):
in a cash iron pants. So I got crusty. Okay,
she actually thought that I should have seed it more.
But that was the idea. And I made a red
curry with with broccolini and the tofu. So that was
and and then like some steamed rice. It was good.
I mean, I love the curry and the broccoli and
the rice. I don't love the tofu. But some people
(09:20):
want to feel like they're not being left out of
the burger game, even if it's total and they shouldn't be. Yeah,
I get it, but I just you're not feeling it.
(09:50):
But so basically, yeah, so we have the mushrooms with
the barbecue sauce, and we have the chickpeas, which actually
helps bind it and hold it together, and then we
have the quenoa. So I'm going to first of all,
I'm gonna like whisk this egg. I have a shell
in the egg. It's so annoying. Do eat veggie burgers? Yeah?
(10:14):
I do. Like you order them, you order it, yes,
And here's the thing that I here's my problem. Okay,
I'm not a veggie burger eater for the most part,
so I didn't really have a lot of experience with it,
to be perfectly honest. Um, but one of the things
(10:37):
that I've heard from like more than not, is that
people don't like them, Like they're always not satisfied with
what they order. Okay, So I always thought to myself, well,
I'm not going to do that. I'm not going to
have something that people aren't satisfied with. So what people think? Okay,
(10:57):
what You're dipping the potty into the egg right now,
and to the egg, and then I have I don't
have chemo flower, but I have rice brown rice flour.
So I'm just gonna sprinkle this on a little bit
and then I'm gonna I'm gonna put it in some
canola oil and fry it. And the idea is like,
give this thing some texture interesting, you know, because like
(11:19):
I always find like if it's just like a bunch
of black beans or something like that, it doesn't have
any texture to it. And it's true, and that's a
good point. Yeah, alternatives aren't always satisfying enough. And then
you're like, why did I even do this? Well that's
my that's exactly my point. So so so basically what
I'm doing here is this burger. You know, all the
(11:40):
ingredients inside are cooked, you know, the mushrooms are cooked
with the barbecue sauce. The chem is cooked, and the
chickens are cooked and they're just pure. So everything is cooked,
so nothing really has to cook, so to speak. So
I'm not trying to get it some medium fare or
a medium or something like that. Basically, it's just I'm
cooking it through and I'm giving I'm giving it a
(12:01):
crust on the outside. It looks really good. You say
that surprisingly, because I'm surprised. Okay, now, I mean is
there any do you ever choose alternatives? Do I? Yeah,
I know I eat vegetables. Yeah, well, I think it's
interesting the term that you're using. Uh. Yeah, I mean,
(12:24):
like so many of my dishes on my menu at
a moufie, I mean basically it's a Pasctarian menu. Now
that's said. We have steaks because we're in Vegas. Yeah,
and we sell a lot of steaks. We have three
different steaks. We have a filet New York Strip, and
we have a Ribby steak, and we have a chicken dish,
and we sell you know a ton of those. But
but the majority of what we sell is fish, you know,
(12:47):
fish on the grill or in the oven, and you
know a ton of vegetables. We have a lot of
vegetable side dishes. And then you know, lots of salads
and lots of pastas, and some of the pastas have
fish in them. None of the none of them have
red meat in them. It's only fish or shellfish and vegetables.
And that's it. That's the way I want to eat.
I want to eat fish and vegetables for the most part.
(13:08):
But that said, every once in a while, like once
every ten days, I want a big gass steak. I
just do. Okay, so your your veggie burger is keen
wat chickpeas, mushrooms. But what's in like an impossible burger?
It's plant It's a plant based it's plants. But what
(13:29):
is it? I don't know. It's proprietary, isn't it. Did
they tell you what the ingredients are? Let me see
if I can look look it up, because I think
that that would be really interesting to know. I mean,
how do you feel about like fake thereso or turkey
bacon or turkey bacon? I'm cool with you are to me,
there are certain things about certain things that are why
(13:49):
you eat them. I eat bacon because it's smoky and crispy.
Turkey bacon cannot get crisp. I mean, no, not in
the way that bacon can, but I still like the flavor.
How do you feel about eggplant? I love egg plant.
I don't know how to make eggplant. Well. I think
one of the dishes you should have in your repertoires,
the eggplant bolonnais that I make. Oh my god, that
(14:10):
is one of my favorite dishes. It's it's it's a
really good dish. And now it's made. It's made its
way to amalfi, but again, really good vegetarian dish. And
you know, like eggplant, it has that meaty texture to it.
You know, it's kind of like mushrooms. I can't I
can't figure out what isn't an impossible burger? They don't
tell you what do they say? They have to say
(14:31):
something ingredient wise, don't they Let's see here nothing. I
can't figure it out. What are the impossible burger ingredients?
Protein from soy and potatoes, flavor from hem the molecule
that makes meat taste well, meaty fat from coconut and
sunflower oils make its sizzle on the griddle, binders, something
(14:53):
called the thick I don't know how to pronounce this,
and food starch hold it together. See can make anything
you want, bills, kebabs, patties, and more. Are you reading
this on their on their website, here's the ingredient list. Water, soy, protein, concentrate,
coconut oil, sunflower oil, natural flavors, two or less of
(15:15):
potato protein, myth, methylas celus, east extract culture, dextros, food starts,
modified soy, something salt mixed, some antioxidant, soy protein isolate,
vitamins and minerals like zinc and lutinate, and then nyacin hydrochloride,
(15:36):
vitamin B six, ribo flaving, ribo flavor, and vitamin B two,
vitamin B twelve. It contains soy and it contains an
alum derivative. So alum is like you know, it's the
family that includes like garlic and onion shouts and things
like that. So if you have any any allergies that
concerns about specific ingredients, they always recommend speaking to whoever
is serving your meal. Well, okay, a lot of ingredients.
(15:59):
It is lot of a great you know, they've created
this phenomenon of people that what I hear people say
when they eat it is that they feel like they're
eating a beef burger. So I understand the appeal. So, yes,
I'm gonna keep cooking this burger so it's nice and crusty,
(16:23):
just until it kind of cooks inside. You think it
looks good, Yeah, it does look good. So what I'm
gonna do is I'm gonna put a little bit of
this secret sauce from the bottom. Well, usually I cook
it with um. Usually I make it with mayonnaise, red pepper,
mostly red pepper, and pure and chipotle puree, which is
(16:44):
like what we use on our fries. But I also
put it put it on my burgers now. And but
I didn't have Chipotle in my house, which is shocking.
But I do have saracchia, so sar rachi and mayonnaise
um on the bottom. And then do you put cheese
on your bride veggie burgers? Yeah, so I'm gonna put
(17:06):
a piece of American cheese on on this, on this
veggie burger as well. So when you look at this,
do you think yourself, I'm excited about this, Yeah, and
excited about this. Actually I'm just gonna eat it. I'm
excited about this. It's really brown. Now, it's the you know,
it's the color of of like a beef burger. Yeah, exactly,
(17:28):
but we want to make sure that it's not going
to fall apart. I'm not worried's gonna fall apart, because
that's what I did. I bounded with the keen one.
Now the keena and the chickpeas are holding the mushrooms together.
It's really the chickpeas, I think, more than anything else.
You know, kind of access like the thing that's binding
it together. But it's not, you know, it's not it's
not like flour and egg running through there, you know.
(17:50):
So it's like it's pure vegetables. So you get like
mushrooms have a very meaty texture to them and they're earthy,
so they really not that they take the place of meat,
but it's like one of those ingredients that is neaty,
so to speak. And then you have the smokiness of
the barbecue sauce that gives you know, it kind of
(18:12):
emulates the smokiness of the of cooking a burger around
a grill, so to speak, or something like that. How
long are you leaving this song for? Like, I'm like,
what are you waiting for? Here? It's cold inside because
I had in the refrigerator. I mean, really, um, you.
Once you put these together, you want them to chill
a little bit it so it might be cold in
(18:33):
the middle. Do you care? Yeah, okay, no one wants
a cold burger. I'm excited to try this. Yeah, all right.
(18:59):
So I'm gonna put the cheese on here. What cheese
did you put on? Oh? He's American, And let the
cheese melts, and then you're gonna have a burger. And
I'm gonna put some Iceberg lettuce because iceberg is the
best lettuce for a burger because it's crunchy. Tomato, yeah, okay, onion, yeah, okay,
bloat it up all the Yeah, that looks great. What
(19:20):
do you think, Sylphie? Looking good? Dad? You know what thing?
You're two? They forced my hand in the veggie burger.
Where'd you get this recipe from? What do you mean like?
I made it on the spot. That's pretty crazy. I
had to. I wasn't given a choice. That's what the
guy challenged me to. All right. So, but had you
been thinking about veggie burgers at all before that? That's
(19:42):
so interesting to me. So you want to catch up
on it or do you want because you already put
the sauce that good Is that enough sauce? I think
so you want on this side too, We've made it
to the bun. You want onion, tomato, some lettuce, a
little onion, all right? Have to give me your honest
opinion of this. It looks pretty good. What are you smelling?
(20:06):
I'm just seeing what it smells like. Oh my god,
it's so hot. It's hot. It's good. Really, yeah, I
just good. What do you like about it? Does it
taste like a burger? No, it's a veggie burger. Yeah,
I mean it tastes like chickpeas to me. So it
feels like it feels fal awful que. It's very flawful esque. Okay,
(20:27):
I don't mind that. No, I don't either. I don't
mind that. If I know what I'm getting, I don't
want to be surprised. But in terms of like, I guess,
what I really want to know is, as far as
veggie burgers go, is it possible? Totally? Totally, and we
serve a version as burger and people seem to like it.
(20:48):
It's not what I would order, ever, No, I mean,
this isn't the same thing, But like, I feel like
I'd rather have like a fried tomato sandwich or like
a fried tomato edgy burger patty is sort of thing. Well,
I can't tell if you like it. You know, you've
had three bites of it. I do like it. I
probably wouldn't order it though it sounds great. I'm sorry.
(21:13):
Well there you go. It is good. I mean, do
you find yourself eating less meat these days? Yeah? Why
what's your what's your reasoning? Is it about just taste preference? No,
I mean it's you know, health, health. Yeah, I mean
that being said, I don't. I don't like a diet
by any means or cut things out, but I definitely
(21:33):
try to eat like a little I don't try. I
try not to eat too much red meat. I mean
I love red meat, I love burger, I love a steak.
But yeah, I try not to eat eat too much
of it. I'm very vegetable forward. You are, Yeah, yeah,
in a big way. I know. What about Like I
noticed the other day, like you you you put some
cash you cheese in my refrigerator. So good. I love.
(21:56):
But I'm also really interested in alternatives. Like know, not
everyone that you find is good but or is to
your you know, preference. But I'm really interested in the
alternative movement. That being said, though there there had there
has been like a little bit of controversy in terms
of how much sugar is being added to these things,
(22:19):
you know, and I think that's gonna that's going to
be a big conversation in this alternative food wave. You know,
have companies been adding as much sugar as they say
they have? Have they been adding a little bit more?
You know? I think that that's kind of that's a
little bit of an issue. I mean, look, you know
it's um, you can't have it all right, I mean,
(22:42):
there's it can't be like sugar free, dairy free plant base. No, seriously, no,
I know, no, you know, unsaturated fats and then expected
to taste like anything, right, Like, there's gotta be there's
gotta be some pain somewhere. But you know, if you want,
if you want flavor, if you want if you want
to actually enjoy what you're eating. Otherwise we're just gonna
(23:05):
be eating like frozen leaves before, you know, right, you
know what? Um? I mean, have you have you been
to any vegan restaurants or vegetarian restaurants that you think
are really doing it right? I don't think of it
that way. See, this is the thing I don't understand.
I don't understand the need to fake out what you're eating.
(23:25):
So if you want to eat a bunch of vegetables,
eat them, like you know what I'm saying. Like, there's
there's plenty of people cooking very creative dishes with vegetables
that look like themselves. Okay, they're not turned into something
to look like something else. And so like like these
fake meats, so to speak, like I'm not sure what's
(23:47):
going on there, Like what how are they processed? I
know that like a piece of broccoli is grown and
it looks like a piece of broccoli, or some colie flower,
or mushrooms or greens, kale, broccolini, tatsi, bok choy. All
these things are delicious, and there's so many ways to
(24:08):
make them. I mean asparagus, green peas, fava beans, fiddle
head ferns, carrots, baby carrots, potatoes, purple potatoes, purple sweet potatoes.
You could go on all day. But but that's my point, right.
My point is that if you want to eat healthfully
in a vegetable manner, vegan vegetarian, there are so many,
(24:31):
I think pure ways to do it. And I'm not
even talking about from a health standpoint because I'm not
really I'm not a I'm not a nutritionist, so I'm
going to leave that to them. But I just think
from a pure sensibility of like, this is a beautiful
sweet potato that I have in front of me that
was roasted, and it has a vinigrette on it with
(24:53):
some delicious apple cider vinegar and delicious olive oil and
you know, maybe some fresh herbs, I know, some pickled
vegetables on top. I mean delicious instead, you don't want
it to be masked instead? Hi, would you like the
the fake trees O waves from charrows? Wait? Wait what? No,
(25:14):
I don't no, I just don't know, thank you. So
that's just listen. I think we're in a in a
we're in a place now where you know, we're pushing
the we're pushing the envelope for meatless meals, and that
can mean lots of different things. My preferences go big
on vegetables in their natural state, you know, use them,
(25:39):
cook them, execute them, pair them with other vegetables that
play along nicely together, and then you'll have a really
I think you'll have a very wholesome, bright, flavorful, creative dinner.
I would love some Bob Joy. You would What would
(25:59):
you do with it? Oh? I have no idea? Great,
what would you do? I mean, you know, it's it's
a it's an Asian vegetable in terms of you know,
its origin. So I always think along those lines. So
I think like fresh junior, fresh garlic, scallions, soy, sesame oil,
maybe some citrus, you know, maybe some peanuts or something
(26:21):
like that. You know, like to me, that's you know,
fresh to laundro you could do some sort of you know,
curry vinegrette or something like that, Like you have like
a red curry vinigrette to go on top of it,
peanuts That sounds really good. But but seriously, but there
you go, you know, but teach his own. Everybody's love
to eat whatever they want to eat, that's true. But
(26:42):
I would like to eat some Bob Joy whip it up.
Always Hungry is created by Bobby Flay and Sophie Flay.
Our executive producer is Christopher Hasiotis. Always Hungry is produced,
edited and mixed by Jonathan Hoss Wrestler. Always Hungry is
engineered Sophie Flay for more podcasts from my heart Radio,
(27:03):
visit the i heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
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