May 25, 2021 • 20 mins
In this episode, Bobby and Sophie break down their pizza preferences while enjoying four different pies. They explore what toppings work and what toppings don't, Sophie fills in her dad about trendy new pizza places, and Bobby breaks down the techniques that great pizza makers use to create the special pizza that so many love.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
All right, guys, welcome to Always Hungry from My Heart Radio.
My name is Bobby Flay and I'm here with my
daughter and co host. I'm Sophie Flay, and I'm Always Hungry.
Sophie and I gather around my stove to cook together. Well,
you cook, I asked the questions, and eat the food.
If there's any food left. We come to the table
together to share a meal, connect as a family, and
tell the stories that matter to us. Today we're talking
(00:27):
about it might be the perfect food. You always say that,
and you're so right. Today we are talking about pizza.
Fire up the oven, all right. So we're talking about
pizza today, Sylvie, and we've got quite a spread. Well,
here's the thing it's like. So we have Prince Street Pizza,
which is actually a New York pizza place to Los
(00:48):
Angeles to l A and they're very busy. And then Pizzana,
which is one of my favorite pizzas in l A.
This is a caccio pepe pizza. The Prince Street one
is called Spicy Ring. It's covered in pepperoni, which is
how I like a pepperoni pizza crazy. And then we
have two frozen pizzas which is one it's called It's
(01:09):
from LaMura Pizzeria, which started as a pop up but
now they have a brick and mortar location on West
Third in West Hollywood. And You're frozen Pizza is Pizzeria Bianco,
which is Crispiaco who's a friend of mine. He's one
of the best pizzaola in the United States. The last
time I was at Pizza Bianco, I walked up to
(01:30):
the front desk to get a table and it was
a couple in front of me, and the guy literally
said to him it's gonna be four hours, and I'm like, okay,
we'll be right, we'll be back dedication. Yeah, that's some
good pizza then. And you've got a You've got a margarita,
and I've got a vegan vegetable pizza. But these two
are frozen, which is like, obviously, frozen pizzas have been
(01:51):
around for a really long time. When I was a kid,
we used to eat French bread frozen pizzas. But now,
especially with the pandemic, frozen pizza is like people that
weren't freezing their pieces are now freezing their pizzas because
they don't have to brook some more business right, So
let's put these in the oven. Okay. I've eaten a
few pizza with Bianco frozen pizzas, and I've always been
(02:11):
sort of like a little skeptical about frozen pizzas, but
I have to say I love it me too. It's great.
So we're gonna put that in the oven. So this
is a five agrees and a you know, regular oven,
and the key is to heat up the sheet pan first. Oh,
I didn't know that. Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna set
a timer here so that we don't forget about them. Okay,
(02:34):
we're talking pizza, we're eating pizza. But I'm gonna get
this out of the way right now. We're not going
to talk about Chicago pizza on this podcast. Not because
it's not a good product. It's just not what we're
talking about. I think we're gonna save Chicago for another podcast.
It's just too easy to be like, oh, Chicago versus
New York, it's been talked about it in nauseam that
(02:55):
one has nothing to do with the other. Is that
fair to say? Yes? Okay, I think what we're really
talking about right now is more of the Neapolitan versus
Roman New York style pizzas, and then we'll also talking
about like some pizzas in Los Angeles as well, because
there's been sort of a good surge of pizza out
here as well. So I guess when you when you
(03:15):
talk about Roman pizza, you know pizza in Rome, I
think about three different kinds. I think about the classic,
very thin rolled out with a rolling pin, almost like
paper thin. They take like a couple of minutes in
a wood burning oven pizza. I love that pizza. It's
thin and crisp. Then there's one that's more sort of
like oval shaped and is cooked on the hearth of
(03:38):
the pizza oven. And a lot of times you'll buy
those by the weight, not by the slice, Like you
tell them how much you want, they slice the piecea
off and you pay for it by the by the kilo,
I guess. And then there's the the last one, which
you know, in some ways has been like what they
call like a Sicilian in New York, where it's baked
in a square cast iron pan or like a metal pan,
(04:00):
and it actually kind of fries the dough because there's
olive oil in the bottom. You put the dough into
the hot pan with the hot oil and you put
it in the oven. It makes the dough really crispy.
That's usually a thicker pie. It's usually a square And
in New York we call a Sicilian style, but in
Rome they just call it another style. They don't call
(04:21):
it Sicilian. In Rome, you still have pizza sauce on
your chin, okay, and stop looking at it remnants um,
you know. So then there's been a huge surge in
the United States of Napoleonon style pizza, and the pizza
from Naples now always wood burning. The crust is very
(04:42):
puffy and charred. Okay, it's beautiful, like sort of the
perimeter of the pizza is, you know, this beautiful, charred, puffy,
light dough, and then in the middle of it is
usually very kind of soft, almost soupy, like they call
it like a knife and fort pizza, you know where
you eat it with a knife and fork. Roman pizza
(05:04):
most of the time is crispy on the bottom. New
York style pizza is crispy on the bottom. That's what
I like. There's a place called Pizzana in l A
which I love. The owners and the pizzaiolo is Danielli,
who's who's a character. He's a really great guy, really fun, funny,
just great attitude. He loves when people love his pizza.
(05:24):
That means he loves a lot of people because a
lot of people love it. But he's doing something that
I think is becoming much more popular by some great
pizza makers in this country, where they're basically combining Naples
in Rome or New York and Naples. You know, they
have this beautiful sort of light dough, but they wanted
to have form on the bottom. They wanted to hold
its shape and be a little bit crispy on the bottom.
(05:46):
My favorite pizza in America. You know what it is?
Your favorite pizza in America. Joe's Pizza. Jose Is Joes
is my favorite pizza New York City. Your favorite pizza
in America. It's not in New York and it's not
in l A. What what is it? It's a New
Jersey rats. Huh. I haven't taken you there yet. Okay,
(06:09):
we don't kick it in Jersey often enough. I guess
so Dan who owns Razza, he and I become friends.
This guy is magic. I'm just telling you the pizza there.
Pete Wells, the critic of The New York Times reviewed
it a few years ago and said, the best pizza
in New York is in New Jersey because it's so
close to New York City. It's like, you know, I
(06:30):
lived downtown. I can literally be there in seven minutes
in my apartment got in New York because it's right
on the other side of the Holland Tunnel. And I've
made pizza with him. It's ridiculous. My dough now is
way better than it used to be. So is it newer?
Is it a newer place. No, it's been around for
like a handful of years. But his pizza is ridiculous.
And I've spent some time with him. I spent five
hours with him one day making pizza, making dough, Oh
(06:52):
my gosh. And it really opened my eyes up to
some things. A lot of it has again, A lot
of it has to do with temperature of the room,
temperature of the flower is Again, he's kind of doing what,
like Danielle you want to do, which is it's got
naples in New York mixed together. They want the crispiness,
they want the contrast of texture. They don't want a
knife and fort pizza, and his stuff is just the dough.
(07:16):
You bite into it, and it's got crunchiness and chewiness
and puffiness and lightness and an amazing sort of yeast
flavor to it, you know, has like that little sour
kind of thing running through it. It's just so good. Yeah,
Jersey City, Let's let's talk about these. Yeah, let's try
(07:51):
some of these. So Pizza, the chef and owners Dan Yellie,
he actually did this pizza, this particular pizza against me.
I beat that crush of a bug. And what is it?
Cacchio pepe is black pepper and pecorino. It's basically taking
the flavors of one of the Roman classic pastas and
put it on top of a pizza. So I'm gonna
taste Catchio peppe like that black pepper and pecorino flavor,
(08:15):
very peppery, which I like pepper. What style pizza is this,
It's somewhere between Naples and Rome. The Platon Salt pizza
is very very sort of doesn't have a lot of
structure in the crust, but you can see it's got
that sharp sort of crust on the outside, you know,
that's what he's cooking there. And then Prince Street Pizza
This is more of like a Sicilian. Like when I
was a kid, we eat Sicilian slices which are square
(08:37):
and thicker. And it's crispier on the edges because it
cooks in the cast iron pan. And this one is
pepperoni on top. I love a pepperoni pizza, yeah, I
really do. This is crispy and thick. It's dough here.
The dough is really thick. Yeah. Just places become very
popular in l A like immediately the line is so long.
(08:57):
Its spicy. That's really spicy. I was just about to say,
I like it to. It's delicious, really good. Wow. Do
you know what's in pizza though? Flowers? Three ingredients mostly eggs, now,
flower water, yeast. That's it, flower water and yeast. What's
(09:18):
in pizza dough, flower water and east. Yeah, that's that's yeah,
good job. No, but that's really what it is. And
then the way you measure it is important. The best
way to measure it is by weight as opposed to
by like cups, so to speak. The temperature of the
water that goes into it is really important. I didn't
know this. The temperature of the water. The temperature of
the water is really important. All the time just for
(09:40):
a certain style. What do you mean to make good
pizza dough regardless? Okay, yeah? And then which which kind
of you used to use? What temperature, and how you
how you incorporate the yeast into the flower. What temperature
should I be measuring at for this pizza dough that
I'm going to be making. It all depends on what
time of the year it is. I'm telling it's I'm
just trying trying to make a point. And then also
(10:02):
the heat from the friction of the mixing of the
dough also plays into how hot the water is it all,
and what the temperature of the room is. I mean,
this is like science, real pizza people. This is the
thing that they think about and it really does make
a difference. And then how long you let it sit,
how you incorporate the yeast into it, how you mix it,
(10:23):
how you mess with the dough, how you roll out
the dough, how you pat it out with your hands,
the whole thing, it's all part of it. And then
of course the oven, Like I know, how hot it's
supposed to be. It's crazy because it's such a like
you know, pizza, it's so simple, but it's not it's
pizza and tacos and burgers have the same issue. People
(10:43):
just think, Oh, it's just pizza, it's just burgers, it's
just tacos. No, there's good pizza and there's bad tacos,
and vice versa. How do you feel about red sauce
pizza versus pizza bianco white sauce pizzas. I like both,
but I would much rather have a red sauce pizza.
I love mayor nara sauce. But why I think because
I like the tartness from the tomatoes and I like
(11:03):
the acidity. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe why this is.
Maybe it's because you use more cheese or more olive
oil and a white pizza. But I feel like when
you have read sauce and pizza, I feel like it
feels less greasy. Do you know what I mean? Yeah? No,
I mean I have to say I like red sauce.
How do you feel about fancy ingredients on pizza? How
do you feel like a lobster pizza? Okay, I love
(11:24):
your lobster pizza, which I don't think you make that often.
You have a you have a pizza oven at your
house and amiganst it and you make pizzas often. I mean,
you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think
we were just experimenting with it. It was a day
we were making a bunch of different pizzas, and you
put lobster on a pizza. And I don't really like
lobster and cheese together. But it's by far like one
(11:48):
of my favorite things that you've ever made. It's a
lobster and toasted garlic pizza with red chilies on it.
It's so good. I would die for that pizza. Yes,
I'm surprised you like that because you don't like the
lobster mac and cheese idea. Maybe with mac and cheese
there's too much cheese. Maybe there's a real balance that
works with lobster and cheese when it's not excessive. How
(12:09):
do you feel about pineapple and a a pizza? Okay, so
pineapple and pizza is a crime? Crime is a crime? Okay?
If I guess it means you don't like it? No,
do you not a chance. I'm a purist when it
comes to things that are classically pizza. I mean, I
like my pizza is really simple, because to me, pizza
is the perfect food when it's simple let's let's face it.
It's like it's bread. It's like delicious bread that's enhanced
(12:32):
with sauce and cheese. That's what it should be in
my opinion. Now that said, I like to make a
pizza with tomato and some mozzarella and some anchovy because
the ant chovy just gives it that beautiful salty bite.
I'll eat a mushroom pizza all day long. Maybe a
pizza with eggplant on top. I love like a goat
cheese and olive topping on pizza. I don't like when
(12:54):
people put like chicken fingers on top of pizza. No,
or like pa What is that about? I don't know
what is the story with the pasta on top of
the pizza? All right, pulling them out of the oven.
(13:20):
It looks good. So they're very different looking. Yes, Pizzo
Biancle's is very classic. It feels like Roman and then
Maura Is it feels more like the Naples pizza the
way the crust is. I like the vegetables on top.
Cut up my pizza, cutter. So'll you tell me about
this place? Lamora Pizzeria. Yeah, it's I don't know if
(13:43):
they're married, but it's a couple and they um started
their pizza making business in Carlston, Built Carolina. Yeah, built
a built a wood fire pizza oven. Came out to
l a In They were doing pop ups, but when
the pandemic hit, they had to figure out a different
way to sell and make their pizza. So they started
freezing it. And they make five or six different types
(14:06):
of pizzas that you can buy. And I just always
have one in my freezer because I you know, they're
always going to be good, and I'm I'm just obsessed
with Pizza's my favorite food. How do you know so
much about these guys because I like the pizza? Wow? Okay,
so you, as we've mentioned you, you spent a semester
(14:30):
abroad in Italy, but you also shot that new show
with I spent a semester abroad. It was your study abroad.
That was my That was my study abroad. That was
my what do you call it? My midlife crisis time.
That was your gap year. But you also just shot
a new show with Giotta in Italy too, so you've
(14:50):
had a lot of, you know, opportunity to run around
and taste different types of pizzas. There is there a
pizza that you had there that you've never had before
that you fell in love with, or is there a
technique that you learned that you've brought back here to
the US to to try to implement when making pizza. Yeah,
I like making pizza in the cast iron pans. Now
they're not actually cast iron pans. They're the metal pans.
(15:11):
It's not as heavy as a cast iron pan. But
it's a black metal a blue metal pan. It's almost
like making for cocca. That's interesting. Yeah, And I like
that because I like what happens to the to the crust.
It fries it so it makes it crispy. It's like
Prince Street pizza. I like what happens when you cook
the dough like that because it gets really really crispy.
I mean, let's face it, everything Friday is good, even
(15:32):
pizza dough. Are you skilled enough to flip pizza dough
in the air? Can I flip it? Yeah? I'm not
saying it's going to stay intact, So that's a no.
I mean no, I don't throw. I mean I can
throw pizza in the air for sure, like once or twice.
But like there are people who just like they're acrobat
there's like Olympics of it. There's like competitions of throwing dough.
(15:52):
Did you know that? No? I had no idea. Wait.
Remember that pizza place and Chelsea across the street from
your old apartment. That guy loved you. Remember that place?
What was that place called? I can't remember, but you
know my first job ever I was now sixth grade.
I worked in Mimi's Pizza sixth grade. How did you
get that job? I don't know. I'd go there after
school and they let me open the cans of tomatoes
(16:14):
and grate the cheese. They never let me near the pizza,
and I would deliver. That was the delivery boy. That's
so cute. Sixth grade. Did you eat a lot of pizza? Yeah?
I think he probably paid me in pizza to open
some cans. O. My Mimi was Mimi was a guy
from Naples and Mimi's was there forever. It's like forty
(16:35):
years it's gone. Now there's a place in Brooklyn called Lucali,
which I have to say. I talked about Rods of
being my favorite pizza. Lucali's right next to it, So
mark I and Kono who owns the place. This guy
is like it's have I taken a little collie. I've
only been there once now, I don't think so you
can't get in. I mean it's like there's no there's
no seats, h and everybody wants to eat there. But
(16:57):
so that Mark, he's like the pizza prince. Okay, he's
really handsome Italian American guy from Brooklyn. He's got like
the perfect white T shirt on. He bakes the pizzas
by candlelight, so he has a split. Oh no, it's insane.
He's got this. What do you mean he bakes it
by candlelight. He bakes him in the oven, but the environment,
(17:19):
the the aura is by candlelight. He doesn't have lights
on in the kitchen, which is kind of wide open.
It's like one big room basically doesn't have lights on
in the kitchen he's got he's literally doing it by
candle The women in there just like swinging over him.
And he's rolling out the pizza dough with a wine bottle.
I mean, the whole thing is just and and and
the pizza is sick. It's so good. Oh my god,
(17:40):
I don't want to go there. No, no, no, you
have to go, Sophie. I'm gonna take you next time
we're both in New York together, I'm gonna take you
there for sure. And he's the greatest guy. He's like
old school New York guy, Like we totally get each other.
He's amazing. What that is so funny about that? I
love it? No, No, you really set the scene for
(18:01):
me there, right, Yeah, I'm just telling you that's the deal,
because he's he's special. If you're leaving the bar, you're
leaving the club. Where are you getting pizza in New
York City? Yes, Joe's. It's one of the last bastions
of old school New York pizza. I mean there's a
handful of others, of course, but to me, it's the
kind of pizza I want to eat. It's crispy, the
(18:23):
cheese is just perfectly melted. It's old school, you know,
the whole milk mozzarella, you know, the sauce is cooked
into like, you know, into a very concentrated you know,
flavor and texture. It's that classic New York styled pizza
that it just quenches that like I need a slice
of pizza moment, totally right. Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
Your picture is up in the on the wall. Our
(18:44):
pictures up in the wall. Yes, our pictures up on
the wall. To people tell you that. Yeah, people send
it to me all the time. It's so funny. And
they're drunk maybe. I mean, I'm getting it at two am,
so one can assume they just went out for a stroke.
You can hear all Crispy Chris Bianco's pizzas were taste yeah,
(19:06):
taste test Okay, mm hmm, this is so good, yeah,
Chris Bianco. When I was first making pizzas at Gatto,
I called Chris. I was like, Chris, give me, like,
give me a couple of things to think about, you know,
to make perfect pizza. He said, Bobby, he's every remember
said the New York guy uses the F word every
other word, like for for accent, and he says, it's
(19:30):
like listen, he goes, he goes, your pizza guy. He's
got to know how to make dough, and he's got
to be the weather man. Well, because humidity is in
a very important part of pizza. It is if there's
a lot of humidity, it makes you don't wetter, so
you have to add more flower interesting vice versa. And
then he said, I was like what about when you're
baking the pizza goes. I've never baked the same pizza twice.
(19:51):
Every pizza is different. Every pizza has his own personality.
He goes, he goes. Listen. It's like a piece of toast.
You put it in, when it's ready, you take it out,
and he's right. Always Hungry is created by Bobby Flay
(20:11):
and Sophie Flay. Our executive producer is Christopher Hasiotis. Always
Hungry is produced, edited, and mixed by Jonathan hows Dressler.
Always Hungry is engineered by Sophie Flay. For more podcast
in My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app,
Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
All right, guys, welcome to Always Hungry from My Heart Radio.
My name is Bobby Flay and I'm here with my
daughter and co host. I'm Sophie Flay, and I'm Always Hungry.
Sophie and I gather around my stove to cook together. Well,
you cook, I asked the questions, and eat the food.
If there's any food left. We come to the table
together to share a meal, connect as a family, and
tell the stories that matter to us. Today we're talking
(00:27):
about it might be the perfect food. You always say that,
and you're so right. Today we are talking about pizza.
Fire up the oven, all right. So we're talking about
pizza today, Sylvie, and we've got quite a spread. Well,
here's the thing it's like. So we have Prince Street Pizza,
which is actually a New York pizza place to Los
(00:48):
Angeles to l A and they're very busy. And then Pizzana,
which is one of my favorite pizzas in l A.
This is a caccio pepe pizza. The Prince Street one
is called Spicy Ring. It's covered in pepperoni, which is
how I like a pepperoni pizza crazy. And then we
have two frozen pizzas which is one it's called It's
(01:09):
from LaMura Pizzeria, which started as a pop up but
now they have a brick and mortar location on West
Third in West Hollywood. And You're frozen Pizza is Pizzeria Bianco,
which is Crispiaco who's a friend of mine. He's one
of the best pizzaola in the United States. The last
time I was at Pizza Bianco, I walked up to
(01:30):
the front desk to get a table and it was
a couple in front of me, and the guy literally
said to him it's gonna be four hours, and I'm like, okay,
we'll be right, we'll be back dedication. Yeah, that's some
good pizza then. And you've got a You've got a margarita,
and I've got a vegan vegetable pizza. But these two
are frozen, which is like, obviously, frozen pizzas have been
(01:51):
around for a really long time. When I was a kid,
we used to eat French bread frozen pizzas. But now,
especially with the pandemic, frozen pizza is like people that
weren't freezing their pieces are now freezing their pizzas because
they don't have to brook some more business right, So
let's put these in the oven. Okay. I've eaten a
few pizza with Bianco frozen pizzas, and I've always been
(02:11):
sort of like a little skeptical about frozen pizzas, but
I have to say I love it me too. It's great.
So we're gonna put that in the oven. So this
is a five agrees and a you know, regular oven,
and the key is to heat up the sheet pan first. Oh,
I didn't know that. Okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna set
a timer here so that we don't forget about them. Okay,
(02:34):
we're talking pizza, we're eating pizza. But I'm gonna get
this out of the way right now. We're not going
to talk about Chicago pizza on this podcast. Not because
it's not a good product. It's just not what we're
talking about. I think we're gonna save Chicago for another podcast.
It's just too easy to be like, oh, Chicago versus
New York, it's been talked about it in nauseam that
(02:55):
one has nothing to do with the other. Is that
fair to say? Yes? Okay, I think what we're really
talking about right now is more of the Neapolitan versus
Roman New York style pizzas, and then we'll also talking
about like some pizzas in Los Angeles as well, because
there's been sort of a good surge of pizza out
here as well. So I guess when you when you
(03:15):
talk about Roman pizza, you know pizza in Rome, I
think about three different kinds. I think about the classic,
very thin rolled out with a rolling pin, almost like
paper thin. They take like a couple of minutes in
a wood burning oven pizza. I love that pizza. It's
thin and crisp. Then there's one that's more sort of
like oval shaped and is cooked on the hearth of
(03:38):
the pizza oven. And a lot of times you'll buy
those by the weight, not by the slice, Like you
tell them how much you want, they slice the piecea
off and you pay for it by the by the kilo,
I guess. And then there's the the last one, which
you know, in some ways has been like what they
call like a Sicilian in New York, where it's baked
in a square cast iron pan or like a metal pan,
(04:00):
and it actually kind of fries the dough because there's
olive oil in the bottom. You put the dough into
the hot pan with the hot oil and you put
it in the oven. It makes the dough really crispy.
That's usually a thicker pie. It's usually a square And
in New York we call a Sicilian style, but in
Rome they just call it another style. They don't call
(04:21):
it Sicilian. In Rome, you still have pizza sauce on
your chin, okay, and stop looking at it remnants um,
you know. So then there's been a huge surge in
the United States of Napoleonon style pizza, and the pizza
from Naples now always wood burning. The crust is very
(04:42):
puffy and charred. Okay, it's beautiful, like sort of the
perimeter of the pizza is, you know, this beautiful, charred, puffy,
light dough, and then in the middle of it is
usually very kind of soft, almost soupy, like they call
it like a knife and fort pizza, you know where
you eat it with a knife and fork. Roman pizza
(05:04):
most of the time is crispy on the bottom. New
York style pizza is crispy on the bottom. That's what
I like. There's a place called Pizzana in l A
which I love. The owners and the pizzaiolo is Danielli,
who's who's a character. He's a really great guy, really fun, funny,
just great attitude. He loves when people love his pizza.
(05:24):
That means he loves a lot of people because a
lot of people love it. But he's doing something that
I think is becoming much more popular by some great
pizza makers in this country, where they're basically combining Naples
in Rome or New York and Naples. You know, they
have this beautiful sort of light dough, but they wanted
to have form on the bottom. They wanted to hold
its shape and be a little bit crispy on the bottom.
(05:46):
My favorite pizza in America. You know what it is?
Your favorite pizza in America. Joe's Pizza. Jose Is Joes
is my favorite pizza New York City. Your favorite pizza
in America. It's not in New York and it's not
in l A. What what is it? It's a New
Jersey rats. Huh. I haven't taken you there yet. Okay,
(06:09):
we don't kick it in Jersey often enough. I guess
so Dan who owns Razza, he and I become friends.
This guy is magic. I'm just telling you the pizza there.
Pete Wells, the critic of The New York Times reviewed
it a few years ago and said, the best pizza
in New York is in New Jersey because it's so
close to New York City. It's like, you know, I
(06:30):
lived downtown. I can literally be there in seven minutes
in my apartment got in New York because it's right
on the other side of the Holland Tunnel. And I've
made pizza with him. It's ridiculous. My dough now is
way better than it used to be. So is it newer?
Is it a newer place. No, it's been around for
like a handful of years. But his pizza is ridiculous.
And I've spent some time with him. I spent five
hours with him one day making pizza, making dough, Oh
(06:52):
my gosh. And it really opened my eyes up to
some things. A lot of it has again, A lot
of it has to do with temperature of the room,
temperature of the flower is Again, he's kind of doing what,
like Danielle you want to do, which is it's got
naples in New York mixed together. They want the crispiness,
they want the contrast of texture. They don't want a
knife and fort pizza, and his stuff is just the dough.
(07:16):
You bite into it, and it's got crunchiness and chewiness
and puffiness and lightness and an amazing sort of yeast
flavor to it, you know, has like that little sour
kind of thing running through it. It's just so good. Yeah,
Jersey City, Let's let's talk about these. Yeah, let's try
(07:51):
some of these. So Pizza, the chef and owners Dan Yellie,
he actually did this pizza, this particular pizza against me.
I beat that crush of a bug. And what is it?
Cacchio pepe is black pepper and pecorino. It's basically taking
the flavors of one of the Roman classic pastas and
put it on top of a pizza. So I'm gonna
taste Catchio peppe like that black pepper and pecorino flavor,
(08:15):
very peppery, which I like pepper. What style pizza is this,
It's somewhere between Naples and Rome. The Platon Salt pizza
is very very sort of doesn't have a lot of
structure in the crust, but you can see it's got
that sharp sort of crust on the outside, you know,
that's what he's cooking there. And then Prince Street Pizza
This is more of like a Sicilian. Like when I
was a kid, we eat Sicilian slices which are square
(08:37):
and thicker. And it's crispier on the edges because it
cooks in the cast iron pan. And this one is
pepperoni on top. I love a pepperoni pizza, yeah, I
really do. This is crispy and thick. It's dough here.
The dough is really thick. Yeah. Just places become very
popular in l A like immediately the line is so long.
(08:57):
Its spicy. That's really spicy. I was just about to say,
I like it to. It's delicious, really good. Wow. Do
you know what's in pizza though? Flowers? Three ingredients mostly eggs, now,
flower water, yeast. That's it, flower water and yeast. What's
(09:18):
in pizza dough, flower water and east. Yeah, that's that's yeah,
good job. No, but that's really what it is. And
then the way you measure it is important. The best
way to measure it is by weight as opposed to
by like cups, so to speak. The temperature of the
water that goes into it is really important. I didn't
know this. The temperature of the water. The temperature of
the water is really important. All the time just for
(09:40):
a certain style. What do you mean to make good
pizza dough regardless? Okay, yeah? And then which which kind
of you used to use? What temperature, and how you
how you incorporate the yeast into the flower. What temperature
should I be measuring at for this pizza dough that
I'm going to be making. It all depends on what
time of the year it is. I'm telling it's I'm
just trying trying to make a point. And then also
(10:02):
the heat from the friction of the mixing of the
dough also plays into how hot the water is it all,
and what the temperature of the room is. I mean,
this is like science, real pizza people. This is the
thing that they think about and it really does make
a difference. And then how long you let it sit,
how you incorporate the yeast into it, how you mix it,
(10:23):
how you mess with the dough, how you roll out
the dough, how you pat it out with your hands,
the whole thing, it's all part of it. And then
of course the oven, Like I know, how hot it's
supposed to be. It's crazy because it's such a like
you know, pizza, it's so simple, but it's not it's
pizza and tacos and burgers have the same issue. People
(10:43):
just think, Oh, it's just pizza, it's just burgers, it's
just tacos. No, there's good pizza and there's bad tacos,
and vice versa. How do you feel about red sauce
pizza versus pizza bianco white sauce pizzas. I like both,
but I would much rather have a red sauce pizza.
I love mayor nara sauce. But why I think because
I like the tartness from the tomatoes and I like
(11:03):
the acidity. Yeah, I don't know. Maybe why this is.
Maybe it's because you use more cheese or more olive
oil and a white pizza. But I feel like when
you have read sauce and pizza, I feel like it
feels less greasy. Do you know what I mean? Yeah? No,
I mean I have to say I like red sauce.
How do you feel about fancy ingredients on pizza? How
do you feel like a lobster pizza? Okay, I love
(11:24):
your lobster pizza, which I don't think you make that often.
You have a you have a pizza oven at your
house and amiganst it and you make pizzas often. I mean,
you can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think
we were just experimenting with it. It was a day
we were making a bunch of different pizzas, and you
put lobster on a pizza. And I don't really like
lobster and cheese together. But it's by far like one
(11:48):
of my favorite things that you've ever made. It's a
lobster and toasted garlic pizza with red chilies on it.
It's so good. I would die for that pizza. Yes,
I'm surprised you like that because you don't like the
lobster mac and cheese idea. Maybe with mac and cheese
there's too much cheese. Maybe there's a real balance that
works with lobster and cheese when it's not excessive. How
(12:09):
do you feel about pineapple and a a pizza? Okay, so
pineapple and pizza is a crime? Crime is a crime? Okay?
If I guess it means you don't like it? No,
do you not a chance. I'm a purist when it
comes to things that are classically pizza. I mean, I
like my pizza is really simple, because to me, pizza
is the perfect food when it's simple let's let's face it.
It's like it's bread. It's like delicious bread that's enhanced
(12:32):
with sauce and cheese. That's what it should be in
my opinion. Now that said, I like to make a
pizza with tomato and some mozzarella and some anchovy because
the ant chovy just gives it that beautiful salty bite.
I'll eat a mushroom pizza all day long. Maybe a
pizza with eggplant on top. I love like a goat
cheese and olive topping on pizza. I don't like when
(12:54):
people put like chicken fingers on top of pizza. No,
or like pa What is that about? I don't know
what is the story with the pasta on top of
the pizza? All right, pulling them out of the oven.
(13:20):
It looks good. So they're very different looking. Yes, Pizzo
Biancle's is very classic. It feels like Roman and then
Maura Is it feels more like the Naples pizza the
way the crust is. I like the vegetables on top.
Cut up my pizza, cutter. So'll you tell me about
this place? Lamora Pizzeria. Yeah, it's I don't know if
(13:43):
they're married, but it's a couple and they um started
their pizza making business in Carlston, Built Carolina. Yeah, built
a built a wood fire pizza oven. Came out to
l a In They were doing pop ups, but when
the pandemic hit, they had to figure out a different
way to sell and make their pizza. So they started
freezing it. And they make five or six different types
(14:06):
of pizzas that you can buy. And I just always
have one in my freezer because I you know, they're
always going to be good, and I'm I'm just obsessed
with Pizza's my favorite food. How do you know so
much about these guys because I like the pizza? Wow? Okay,
so you, as we've mentioned you, you spent a semester
(14:30):
abroad in Italy, but you also shot that new show
with I spent a semester abroad. It was your study abroad.
That was my That was my study abroad. That was
my what do you call it? My midlife crisis time.
That was your gap year. But you also just shot
a new show with Giotta in Italy too, so you've
(14:50):
had a lot of, you know, opportunity to run around
and taste different types of pizzas. There is there a
pizza that you had there that you've never had before
that you fell in love with, or is there a
technique that you learned that you've brought back here to
the US to to try to implement when making pizza. Yeah,
I like making pizza in the cast iron pans. Now
they're not actually cast iron pans. They're the metal pans.
(15:11):
It's not as heavy as a cast iron pan. But
it's a black metal a blue metal pan. It's almost
like making for cocca. That's interesting. Yeah, And I like
that because I like what happens to the to the crust.
It fries it so it makes it crispy. It's like
Prince Street pizza. I like what happens when you cook
the dough like that because it gets really really crispy.
I mean, let's face it, everything Friday is good, even
(15:32):
pizza dough. Are you skilled enough to flip pizza dough
in the air? Can I flip it? Yeah? I'm not
saying it's going to stay intact, So that's a no.
I mean no, I don't throw. I mean I can
throw pizza in the air for sure, like once or twice.
But like there are people who just like they're acrobat
there's like Olympics of it. There's like competitions of throwing dough.
(15:52):
Did you know that? No? I had no idea. Wait.
Remember that pizza place and Chelsea across the street from
your old apartment. That guy loved you. Remember that place?
What was that place called? I can't remember, but you
know my first job ever I was now sixth grade.
I worked in Mimi's Pizza sixth grade. How did you
get that job? I don't know. I'd go there after
school and they let me open the cans of tomatoes
(16:14):
and grate the cheese. They never let me near the pizza,
and I would deliver. That was the delivery boy. That's
so cute. Sixth grade. Did you eat a lot of pizza? Yeah?
I think he probably paid me in pizza to open
some cans. O. My Mimi was Mimi was a guy
from Naples and Mimi's was there forever. It's like forty
(16:35):
years it's gone. Now there's a place in Brooklyn called Lucali,
which I have to say. I talked about Rods of
being my favorite pizza. Lucali's right next to it, So
mark I and Kono who owns the place. This guy
is like it's have I taken a little collie. I've
only been there once now, I don't think so you
can't get in. I mean it's like there's no there's
no seats, h and everybody wants to eat there. But
(16:57):
so that Mark, he's like the pizza prince. Okay, he's
really handsome Italian American guy from Brooklyn. He's got like
the perfect white T shirt on. He bakes the pizzas
by candlelight, so he has a split. Oh no, it's insane.
He's got this. What do you mean he bakes it
by candlelight. He bakes him in the oven, but the environment,
(17:19):
the the aura is by candlelight. He doesn't have lights
on in the kitchen, which is kind of wide open.
It's like one big room basically doesn't have lights on
in the kitchen he's got he's literally doing it by
candle The women in there just like swinging over him.
And he's rolling out the pizza dough with a wine bottle.
I mean, the whole thing is just and and and
the pizza is sick. It's so good. Oh my god,
(17:40):
I don't want to go there. No, no, no, you
have to go, Sophie. I'm gonna take you next time
we're both in New York together, I'm gonna take you
there for sure. And he's the greatest guy. He's like
old school New York guy, Like we totally get each other.
He's amazing. What that is so funny about that? I
love it? No, No, you really set the scene for
(18:01):
me there, right, Yeah, I'm just telling you that's the deal,
because he's he's special. If you're leaving the bar, you're
leaving the club. Where are you getting pizza in New
York City? Yes, Joe's. It's one of the last bastions
of old school New York pizza. I mean there's a
handful of others, of course, but to me, it's the
kind of pizza I want to eat. It's crispy, the
(18:23):
cheese is just perfectly melted. It's old school, you know,
the whole milk mozzarella, you know, the sauce is cooked
into like, you know, into a very concentrated you know,
flavor and texture. It's that classic New York styled pizza
that it just quenches that like I need a slice
of pizza moment, totally right. Yeah, I couldn't agree more.
Your picture is up in the on the wall. Our
(18:44):
pictures up in the wall. Yes, our pictures up on
the wall. To people tell you that. Yeah, people send
it to me all the time. It's so funny. And
they're drunk maybe. I mean, I'm getting it at two am,
so one can assume they just went out for a stroke.
You can hear all Crispy Chris Bianco's pizzas were taste yeah,
(19:06):
taste test Okay, mm hmm, this is so good, yeah,
Chris Bianco. When I was first making pizzas at Gatto,
I called Chris. I was like, Chris, give me, like,
give me a couple of things to think about, you know,
to make perfect pizza. He said, Bobby, he's every remember
said the New York guy uses the F word every
other word, like for for accent, and he says, it's
(19:30):
like listen, he goes, he goes, your pizza guy. He's
got to know how to make dough, and he's got
to be the weather man. Well, because humidity is in
a very important part of pizza. It is if there's
a lot of humidity, it makes you don't wetter, so
you have to add more flower interesting vice versa. And
then he said, I was like what about when you're
baking the pizza goes. I've never baked the same pizza twice.
(19:51):
Every pizza is different. Every pizza has his own personality.
He goes, he goes. Listen. It's like a piece of toast.
You put it in, when it's ready, you take it out,
and he's right. Always Hungry is created by Bobby Flay
(20:11):
and Sophie Flay. Our executive producer is Christopher Hasiotis. Always
Hungry is produced, edited, and mixed by Jonathan hows Dressler.
Always Hungry is engineered by Sophie Flay. For more podcast
in My Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app,
Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
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