September 22, 2023 • 28 mins
It’s World Rhino Day (September 22)! For this special day to raise awareness about rhino conservation, Amazing Wildlife is joined by Gavin Livingston, the curator of mammals at the San Diego Zoo Safari Park. Rick and Marco discuss the five different species of rhinos and offer some interesting facts about their hair color—and how much their head weighs (hint: it’s three times the size of something in your kitchen!) Gavin gives insight into rhino conservation science at the San Diego Zoo Safari Park, as well as threats to rhinos in their native habitats, and why they are vital to their ecosystems. We also learn the importance of diversity in rhino conservation, in addition to Gavin’s predictions for conservation’s future.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi, I'm Rick Schwartz.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Wuenel zis World. I'm Marco went.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Amazing Wildlife, where we explore unique stories of
wildlife from around the world and uncovered fascinating animal facts.
This podcast is a production of iHeartRadio's Ruby Studios and
San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance in international nonprofit conservation organization
which oversees the San Diego Zoo and Safari Park. Marco Marco, Marco,
It's today, It's today. It's World Rhino Day.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
I know, man, I'm totally stoked. We get to talk
all about that chubby unicorn we all know and love,
the increive le rhinoceros.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
And for those who may be listening to this after
its release date of September twenty second, don't worry if
you miss World Rhino Day this year. You can catch
it every year on September twenty second and keep listening
because you are not going to want to miss out
on all things rhino in this episode.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Ah yeah, I mean, I love it when the timing
works out like this. It's like the stuff aligned just
for us to have an episode coming up right on
World Rhino Day. Like many of the other international global
or world days dedicated to a specific species or group
of animals. World Rhino Day is a great day to
share all things rhino, to raise awareness and get others,
(01:19):
like all the kids listening right now, involved in conservation exactly.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
And there is so much to cover when it comes
to rhinos. For example, many people may not know there
are five different species of rhino, the job and rhino,
the Sumatrin rhino, the Greater one horned rhino, the Eastern
black rhino, and the white rhino. And worth noting there
are two subspecies of the white rhino, the Southern white
rhino and Northern white rhino, which we did episodes on
last season if anyone wants to go back and listen
(01:45):
to those, Oh, those.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Are really good. Love it. And I love this fact
by the way, friend, Even though most people think of
rhinos as hairless, grayish colored, tough skinned animals that just
like ram and things with their horns, they are actually
like many other animals. You know. Those rhinos are looking
to find food, raise their yelling if they have them,
and pretty much live a very peaceful life and be
(02:08):
left alone to do their own thing.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
And I'm going to charge right in with another fact
did you catch that? I got it all right, good.
You mentioned that people tend to think of them as
hairless and tough skinned. Well, all rhinos have hair, but
some species not very much and may be just located
in certain parts of the body, like cute little ear
tufts or something. But get this, the Sumatran rhino tends
(02:31):
to have a full body of reddish brown hair. And
as for the tough skin part, yes, it can look
like they have thick, tough armor plating type skin like
the greater one horned rhino has, but their skin is
more sensitive than you might expect. That's one of the
reasons you may see them wallowing in mud. It helps
to keep parasites off and protect the skin from the sun.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Oh yeah, the greater one herd rhinos are my favorite.
But okay, hold on, Rick, I know you could probably
spend a full episode sharing a ton of rhino facts. Eh,
But with it being rolled Rhino Day, shouldn't we bring
one of our rhino experts to fill us in and
all things rhino?
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Well, yes, of course, But seeing as you did say
there's a ton, can I just share one more fun fact?
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Totally?
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Okay? Okay, you know, actually before I share the fact
that little noise you made before was that on purpose
because the one horned rhino. Okay, for those who are
listening and don't know this, that you sound that awkward
excited escape Marcos, that is also the sound that one
horned rhinos make. He did a very good job there,
said thank you, You're welcome. No, And so back to
my fun fact. Okay, this one is really a lot
(03:36):
of fun. White rhinos are so big that pound for pound,
the head, this is just the head, okay of a
white rhino can weigh as much as three empty household refrigerators.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Oh that's a whole lot of rhino, buddy, But I
love that fact too. That's why they have that large
hump of muscle on their shoulders to help hold that
massive head in place.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yes, it's true, and for anyone out there who loves
the numbers, on average, an empty household refrigerator weighs about
three hundred pounds. I know this because I googled it.
I didn't actually go weigh one. And a white rhino
is sporting a head that weighs anywhere from eight hundred
to one thousand pounds. So doing the math, three household
refrigerators comes around nine hundred pounds, which is the average
(04:18):
for their head size. And as awesome as these rhino
facts are, You're right, Marco, we do have one of
our many rhino experts from the San Diego Zoo Safari
Park waiting to share everything rhinos with us and our listeners.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Oh man, I wasn't sure if you were gonna able
to stop with all your fun rhino facts. I was
worried We're gonna have to unplug your mic for a second.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Buddy, Okay, I have some self control, Mark, Okay. Plus,
I don't want to keep our guests waiting. He's a
pretty busy person and honestly we're lucky to catch.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Him between his travels. I am Gavin Livingston. I am
the curator of Mammals at the San Diego Zoo Safari Park.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Gavin, I'm sure you can tell. Mark and I are
super excited to have you on the podcast today, not
only because the day of this episode comes out is
actually World Rhino Day, but because, as the curator of
mammals for the San Diego Zoo Safari Park, you really
have your finger on the pulse of what the San
Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance is doing for rhinos and rhino conservation.
And as much as we want to cover things like
(05:16):
what does conservation in the past look like and where
do we see rhino conservation going in the future, let's
start with where we are right now. Why is rhino
conservation relevant and important today?
Speaker 3 (05:27):
I think rhino conservation is important today because there's such
a keystone species and the habitats that they live that
protecting rhinos and figuring out how do we keep them
safe and thriving in this modern world helps us then
use that as a multiplier effect to help all the
other species that are may be a little bit less iconic.
If you can focus on those iconic species and protect
(05:48):
where they live, you can protect all kinds of species.
Rhino conservation isn't really about rhinos. It's about an entire
ecosystem or habitat that they live in.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
I have heard that before when conservation is talk about
megafauna or big animals like rhinos and elephants, the term
you use keystone species, meaning that that particular species is
vital for the ecosystem they live in, and in this
case it's rhinos. Can you give me an example of
a roll. One of the rhinos species may have in
its ecosystem that no other species can do for that
(06:18):
particular environment.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Yeah, it kind of depends which ecosystem they're living in
or what kind of habitat that they're occupying. And they
can serve a role in sort of a brush habitat,
like black rhinos, of clearing brush to allow other species
to navigate through. They help with fire prevention by browsing,
you know, and eating on the brush. In the trees,
they help spread seeds through their dung from the food
that they eat for the grazing species, So they do
play an important niche in their individual habitats.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Seed dispersers also rhinos are like featherlous casto areas. But
I'm glad you mentioned helping with fire prevention. I know
some people listening right now knew about seed dispersal and
making trails or paths or smaller animals to use, But
sometimes they're a lot less obvious, but just as important
(07:03):
roles each species plays in their ecosystem, like the rhinos
helping with fire prevention simply by eating the plant materials
that they need to eat every day.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Yeah, you know, I was think of the same thing Marco,
and that always reminds me that just because we do
not always see the obvious role of species plays in
the ecosystem, it doesn't mean there isn't one. Gavin, Now
that we have an idea of the role rhinos play
in their ecosystem, can you share with us what are
some of the different issues and pressures that rhinos face today.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
So unfortunately rhinos have a lot of pressure on them
from multi factors. It's habitat loss, it's spread of livestock
and agriculture, but specifically for African rhino species, its threats
of poaching. The poaching crisis has gotten really severe in
the past fifteen to twenty years, in particular, especially in
Southern Africa, and it's just got to levels that were
(07:51):
completely out of control for a while. Fortunately, there's been
some positive trends in that, and especially during COVID poaching
numbers went down a lot, but then now we're seeing
some increases, but that's starting to tick back up. And
obviously the poaching is for rhino horn trade, and there's
some cultures that believe that rhinohorns have medicinal values and
purposes and that's put a high price on rhinos, and
(08:14):
it made it be very dangerous to be a rhino
in their native habitat in many areas.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
But haven't studies and analysis been done to show that
rhino horn is made up of the protein keratin, the
same as say, a horse hoof.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
That's exactly right. It's just like a fingernail or hair.
It's nothing specially or unique. It's just something that grows naturally.
And it's really unfortunate that there's a belief that rhinohorn
has medicinal properties.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
I know a lot of work has been done to
educate the general public about the fact that rhino horn
is just made up of the same protein as hair
and hoofs and even fingernails, but it sounds like we
still have a lot of work ahead of us. I
know that the San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance and specifically
the Safari Park, has had a long history with rhinos
and educating the public about them. In fact, the rhino
(08:59):
has and one of our main symbols out here for
really really long time.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Ah, that's true. After all, it's the first thing you
see when you drive up to the Safari Park. The
sign out front is a huge rhino and then you
see them in large habitats and well, if you're lucky,
maybe see some babies out there.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Oh exactly, all awesome examples. But I want to ask you, Gavin,
what is it about the Safari Park and the rhino
I mean, why do you think those who are so connected.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
I think it's because of what type of park we are, right,
we are a Safari Park. It's in the name. And
when you think a Safari you think rhinos. And when
you look at an organization that's promoting wildlife conservation and
saving the natural world, you have to think about what
are your strengths. And at the Safari Park, our strengths
are large natural, open habitats, and what does really well
in that rhinos. And so when this organization was started
(09:47):
and this park was built, you look at where that
impact lies and we were able to have a huge
impact with rhinos. And so since the park opened, we've
been connecting our visitors with wildlife, specifically rhinos, and then
also making a big difference to the rhino population in
human care so that we can impact those species in
the wild. And so it's really crucial that we do
the work we do here as an organization because we're
(10:09):
working to help not only impact the species in their
native habitat, but create assurance populations in human care as
well to ensure that these species don't go extinct.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Ah so well, said Gavin. Like conservation of the many
other species we have discussed here on the podcast, there's
no one perfect way to secure the future for wildlife.
It's clearly multifaceted and takes several different areas of focus
to make a difference for all of them.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Oh yeah, definitely. I wanted to ask you one more
thing about our work in creating a safe population for
rhinos here at the Safari Park, Gavin, before I forget though,
one more thing. In the past fifty years of the
Safari Park existing, what species of rhinoceros have lived here
in that time?
Speaker 3 (10:49):
So we've had three species and two subspecies of rhinos
here from the history of the parks. We've had Eastern
black rhinos, which are an African rhino species. We've had
Southern white and Northern white rhinos, which two subspecies of
white rhino, and then Greater one horn rhinos as well.
And we've been very fortunate to be very successful with
all of those species of rhinos here at the Safari Park.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
So I mean, of course I gotta ask. You said,
we have been fortunate to be very successful, right, but
what are the numbers like across the board? How many
rhinos have been born at the Safari Park.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
It's really a pretty incredible number when you think about it.
So we've had over two hundred rhino calves born here
at the Safari Park in the history of the organization,
which is one of the most successful rhino breeding programs
anywhere in the Western Hemisphere. And we've had black, greater
one horn and Southern white rhinos born in those numbers.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Gavin, you listened to species of rhinos that we have
had success with when it comes to breeding and creating
a safe population here the Sfari Park. I can't help
but notice of the rhinos we have had here, there
was one missing from the list of successful breeding and
that's the northern white rhino. When I started working for
the San Diego Zu Wildlife Alliance over twenty years ago,
we had at least three Northern white rhinos all the time.
(11:59):
Of course, they've passed away from old age without creating offspring.
What is our situation now and where are we with
regards to the Northern white rhino conservation work.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
So unfortunately, there's only two living Northern white rhinos anywhere
in the world, and they're living at Olpagetic Conservancy in Kenya,
and they are two females, and they're both post reproductive,
so they don't have the ability to have any more calves.
The one bright spot though, is that through our Frozen
Zoo here at the San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance, we
have eleven different genetic lions that are frozen and we're
working through our Northern White Rhino Initiative to use conservation
(12:31):
science and conservation genetics to help change the paradigm potentially
create more Northern white rhinos through embryo transfer.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
All the science and everything about the work our teams
are doing with the Frozen Zoo, it always gives me goosebumps.
And I wanted to ask, even though we have a
limited number of Northern white rhino cells in the frozen Zoo,
I heard that when we analyze the genetics, if each
individual represented that there was enough diversity to create a
healthy population, is that right?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
That is correct.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
We're very fortunate that we have really accomplished scientists and
population biologists who are really good at taking and maintaining
small populations and building them larger, and so through scientific management,
we can take those eleven different genetic lines and create
a healthy, thriving population.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
That is really amazing to think that we can leverage
the advancements in science to prevent the extinction of the
northern white rhino.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Oh, I know what you mean, friend, It is wild.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
I have so many more questions about the science side
of it, but I know that's not your specialty. So
I will save you and our listeners from hearing me
geek out about all the science and everything. And with
that said, we'll switch our focus a little to talk
about the eastern black rhino. Gavin, you had mentioned earlier
the different species and having black renos at one time
at the Safari Park. Can you tell us a little
more about that.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Yeah, So, we historically have housed black renos here at
the Safari Park, and we've been fortunate enough to have
eighteen calves born here in our care and we don't
currently have any on habitat here at the Safari Park,
but through our conservation science department, we're supporting conservation of
black rhinos in US.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
But wait a minute, friend, I know, we've also transported
an Eastern black rhino back to Africa to help with
the conservation as well. Can you share a little bit
of that story.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Yeah, and that's a really cool story. So we were
fortunate enough to be able to take a black rhino
named Eric who was born in human care here at
the Safari Park, and transfer him to Tanzania where he
was able to take genetics that weren't represented in that population,
that were new to that area, and then put him
on a conservancy there and spread those genes into the
population that make it thriving and healthier than it was before.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
I have to admit what I love about that story
and everything you've shared so far. There's just no one
answer to conservation. It takes a lot of creativity, a
lot of thinking outside of the box, a lot of science,
a lot of people coming together. I mean, just the
idea that hey, we're going to send a rhino back
to Africa to help with the genetics there. We have
different individuals in the frozen zoo to help with the
future population that can no longer breed on its own.
(14:52):
And with all of that and with everything we're doing
working together, it really seems it takes a lot of
people doing a lot of creative work.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
That's completely true. I mean, conservation really takes in all
of the above approach because we're no longer in sort
of this mindset where Western conservation groups go to range
countries and tell countries how to manage their own animals.
That's not effective and that's not what we're trying to do.
We're really looking to take tools from many different disciplines,
including hard sciences but also social science to look at,
you know, how people interact with animals in their area,
(15:21):
and how they can live in harmony with the wildlife
around them, and how do you even create a system
where it's beneficial to live around wildlife. And so it's
not just one answer, it's many different disciplines, as you said,
coming together, and that's really what's going to change the
paradigm for wildlife.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
I love that the use of different disciplines, just like
in the wild, right, the more diversity, the healthier the population.
I love that word diversity. So it is true for
a conservation approach, is diversity wins every time. In fact,
that makes me think of yet another aspect to the
conservation puzzle. And that's all the things that we've learned
(15:58):
about other species under our care. I mean, sometimes what
we do and what we learn while caring for wildlife
here at the zoo or the Safari Park becomes important
information to then share with our friends that work with
these species in their native habitats. What sort of work
have we done with rhinos that is translated to supporting
knowledge for those doing work in the field.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
We're really fortunate because the wildlife care specialists we have
here at the Safari Park and at the Zoo that
care for our rhinos every day develop incredible relationships with
those animals, and through those relationships, we're able to learn
so much about the behavior and even natural history of
these species that we didn't know before. So with these
relationships they developed, they're able to see how do rhinos
utilize different spaces, how do rhinos adapt to change in
(16:42):
their environment. We can take part in nutritional studies as well,
to see how do different food items that are presented
to rhinos impact their overall health and well being. When
you have animals in human care that have strong relationships
with their caregivers, you're able to multiply that and really
impact those species in the wild. I mean, if you
think about it a rhino and Kenya who's out in
the field. You're not going to be able to see
(17:03):
everything it does. You're not going to be able to
know how does that animal react to a novel object
in the area. But that can be really important when
you're thinking about reintroducing animals to an area that they
weren't living, because you need to know how would rhino
as you're reintroducing impact fences that they see, how would
they deal with seeing vehicles? So we're able to take
that information we gain here and directly impact those conservation
(17:24):
projects in the field. So it's not only about connecting
visitors here at the Safari Park with rhinos and wanting
them to help save them in the wild, but it's
also about taking that knowledge and directly impacting species conservation
in their native habitat.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
That's one thing I really love about doing these interviews
and having this opportunity to talk to people to do
the work you do and you're in charge of the
teams doing all this work and you travel all over
for this too, is that it really allows our audience
to understand it. Yeah, you come here to this farire
park and you're going to enjoy your day, you see
some really cool animals. By the way, we're nonprofits, so
anything you're doing here it helps our work. But then
(17:56):
to actually have the opportunity to peak behind a curtain
to go this is all the layers of work going
into conservation and how every little part is so important.
I think it's so cool to hear that and really
get a clear picture of that. So thank you.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Oh no doubt, Rich, I mean, it really is great
to see these insider perspectives and to take it a
step further. Gavin, we talked about how the Safari Park
has done so much and it's a great space for
breeding rhinos and all the incredible work for these species,
but we're not doing it alone. Historically, zoos have worked together,
whether it's sharing what we've learned about a particular species,
(18:32):
or collaborating on best veterinary techniques, or even playing matchmaker
to help increase the population of endangered species. Can you
share with our listeners just a little bit about our
work with other accredited zoos and aquariums.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
I think that's something really important for us to touch on.
So I'm glad you mentioned that because it isn't just
a one zoo approach, and it's a lot of science
that goes into managing these wildlife populations. And so we're
really fortunate to work with our partners at the Association
of Zoos and Aquariums in the Species Survival Plans, And
basically what that is is sort of a scientific based
breeding program for the rhino species and other species we
(19:07):
work with. And every couple of years, all of the
zeus who have rhinos get together and they decide what
are the best moves and recommendations we can make to
make the healthiest rhino population while also taking into account
the individual animals, their behaviors and their likes and dislikes
to make sure that we don't see them as just
one population, but we also see them as individual animals too.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Well. There it is again we see the importance of
the collaboration and everyone working together. And I appreciate the
perspective that the Species Viible Plans have that it's not
just about the overall population, but also seeing the individuals
in the population and taking into account the whole picture
for conservation. I am really excited to see where all
this collaboration takes us moving forward.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Yeah, let me see, Rick, I mean, we still have
so much to do. Gavin, in your opinion, what's the
future of rhino conservation?
Speaker 3 (19:55):
I think the future of rhino conservation is really going
to be focused around partnerships. It's conservation organizations, nonprofit groups,
zoological facilities and then range countries all working together to
protect rhinos. It's not one type of organization can support
rhinos anywhere in the world. It's not different groups coming
in and telling countries how to manage their rhinos. It's
really everybody working together and taking their strengths to put
(20:17):
all that together to create a change for rhinos. Because
as we've seen, it's a really difficult thing to do,
and we can't think that anyone has the one answer
and how to save rhinos. It really is that all
of the above approach that's going to be required to
save these species.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Oh, I have to ask because knowing there are a
lot of different people in groups coming together for rhino conservation,
and knowing that rhinos are still facing serious challenges in
the wild, are there any bright spots in all this?
Are we headed in the right direction?
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Fortunately, there is a bright spot. It's not all bad
news for rhinos. So the greater one horned rhino is
the species that's doing the best statistically speaking of rhinos
in their native habitats. So the greater one horn rhino
was down to about thirty two hundred animals in the
wild about ten years ago, and now that population has
increased to a little over four thousand, which has been
statistically a huge increase for that species. And that's primarily
(21:05):
linked to the partnerships and works done between the native
range countries Nepal, Bhutan, and India and the conservation groups
that work there as well, the International Rhino Foundation Wildlife
Conservation Society. There's been a lot of work done to
support those species there and it's really showing a huge
impact for them.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Oh that's awesome here, and it really reinforces the need
for partnerships and all of the collaborative work that we've
been talking.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
About exactly Marco. It really is good news, Gavin, knowing
that the multifaceted approach is needed and knowing that the
partnerships and working with local communities is working. I have
to ask when you go visit with the communities participating
in this conservation work, seeing the struggles and the successes,
sharing what we know and learning from them as well
(21:49):
then coming back here and sharing all of this with
our staff and working side by side with the wildlife
care specialists. For you, personally, what's that like being a
part of that.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
I'm continually fired every day by the work that our
teams do here. It's really amazing to come to work
every day and get to be a part of changing
the world. And that's really what we're doing here at
the San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance. Every one of us
is playing a small part into this larger mission of
creating a world where all life thrives, and it particularly
to rhinos. I've loved rhinos ever since I was a kid,
and so now to get to work in an organization
(22:20):
that changes the paradigm for rhinos like we're taking part in,
it's really inspiring and I feel lucky to do this
every day.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Ah, friend, I love that you mentioned you have loved
rhinos since you were a kid. I know we have
a lot of young listeners that have a passion for
wildlife and maybe even a love for a specific species,
so I am sure they can relate. But I'm a
little bit curious if you could imagine yourself sitting down
next to your younger self, little Gavin, and say, this
(22:49):
is what you're going to be doing when you get older.
What would that be like? Do you think your little
head will just.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Explode or what it really would?
Speaker 3 (22:57):
I would be so excited. I remember I've rhinos since
an early age because a triceratops was my favorite dinosaur,
and I thought that a rhino was the most like
a triceratops, And so I thought, can I actually work
with a real triceratops? Not quite, but rhinos are a
pretty close second. I don't think I would believe that
I'm getting to do what I do every day now.
It really is a dream come true.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Oh I love that, I really do, and I want
to take it a step further. If there's a kid
listening right now who wants to work with rhinos, be it,
I don't know, in a curatorial position like yourself, or
as a wildlifecare specialist, or maybe someone who does work
in another country. What would be the direction you would
point them in? What would you want to say to
them for their dreams and aspirations to work with rhinos?
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Well, first thing I would tell them is that no
one's path looks the same. So don't think that just
because you come from a certain background or you have
a certain level of education, that you can't get to
work with wildlife. No one's path is identical. But I mean,
if you're really interested in working with rhinos or any
other wildlife species, I'd highly encourage you to learn about
their natural history, learn about what the habitats where these
animals are living, so that you can know how how
(24:00):
best to care for them in a human environment. But
then also work on your education, work on meeting your
local zoos, and just do what you can to start
to build that network, because that's really helpful to get
your foot in the door.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
That is all good advice for someone looking to get
started working with wildlife. But I have one more question
for you, Gavin. You've had a pretty amazing career thus far,
doing so much for wildlife conservation. But of all the
things you've experienced, is there one that you would consider
the most memorable with rhinos or any other species you
may have worked with.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Well, that's a good question.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
That's a tough one. I get to do so many
amazing things in my role here, but I think I'm
going to have to use a non rhino example.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
That's great.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
I think the experience that changed me the most was
the first time I got to help with a wildlife
reintroduction and that was for Cemtar horned oris in Chad
and I remember that day specifically being there collaring Cemtar
horn do oorics that we released back into the wild,
and it was particularly special for me because those were
animals that were born into human care that were then
sent to chat I think going back out into their
(25:01):
native habitat where they belong and getting to see that
end of this cycle and everything come full circle and
seeing how we can really is wildlife conservation has truly
impact animals in the wild and that tangible form that
was something I'll never forget. It was life changing for me.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Ah, such a great story, Gavin. I can't thank you
enough for taking the time to sit with us and
share your knowledge and passion for rhino conservation.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Yes, yeah, Machisi was grass Am Eagle. This was awesome.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Absolutely. It was a great opportunity to share the work
that our teams do here with rhinos every day and
I really enjoyed it. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Oh, that was such a great talk with Gavin. He
shared so many great details about rhino conservation. I loved
how his favorite dinosaur was at Triceratops and how he
loves rhinos. Now, I mean my favorite dinosaur was a
Terry dact though, so it makes perfect sense.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
I mean some people might argue Terry Doctors was Oh
that's true, that's.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
You know what I was inspired as a child. That's
the boy that is inspired.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
By the fossils of other animals, and it was a
whole lot of fun. Well, I think you're right though.
Either way, Gavin was a perfect guest for World Rhino Day.
And I know our listeners are all fans of the
San Diego Zoo, Wildlife Alliance and animal lovers. But there's
one more topic we need to cover. Marco.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Oh yeah, well, I think I know where you're going
with this front and I agree, But I think maybe
we need to talk a little bit more about how
people can help.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
With rhinos exactly. And I'd have to say, first and foremost,
we need to keep raising awareness that rhino'horn is just keratin,
a protein that makes up our hair, our fingernails, cloths
and horns of other animals. This may seem like a
silly thing to have to say, but many people out
there still believe rhino horn is unique and has special
powers or medical benefits to humans. Because of this, rhinos
(26:45):
are hunted illegally for their horns.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Yeah, exactly. And by raising awareness and sharing these facts
with others whenever possible, we can stop the demand for
rhino horn and hopefully stop the poaching.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
And there are other ways people can help. It's by
supporting organizations like the Sandegozu Wildlife Alliance and our many
allies working in Africa and Asia for rhinos. By supporting
conservation organizations, we can secure supplies and help communities manage
the land they share with wildlife.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
And if anyone is listening who wants to become an
ally for wildlife and join us in a rhino conservation efforts,
I definitely encourage you to go to our website SDZWA
dot org to find out more about rhino conservation and
how you can support our work and the work of
our partners.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Couldn't said better myself, buddy, Thanks sar Man, Hey Marco.
Before we wrap this up, can I drop one more
fun rhino fact?
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Oh yeah, man, go for it.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Okay, Well, you know how the cheetah is the fastest
land mammal. Right, yeah, yeah, we get this. The rhino
should not be underestimated. Although they can't keep up with
the cheetah, they can run about thirty five miles an hour,
and a black rhino has even been clocked closer to
forty miles an hour.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Oh no, definitely not cheata speeds. But that's a lot
faster than I can shiver.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Right, it's pretty impressive. Okay, speaking of running, we are
running out of time here, but I want to make
sure everyone subscribes and tunes into our next episode, in
which Marco and I explore some of the unique species
in our own backyard right here in San Diego County.
Marco lit and I'm Rick Schwartz. Thanks for listening. For
(28:21):
more information about the San Diego Zoo and San Diego
Zoo Safari Park, go to SDZWA dot org. Amazing Wildlife
is a production of iHeartRadio's Ruby Studios. Our supervising producer
is Nikiah Swinton, and our sound designer and editor is
Sierra Spreen. For more shows from iHeartRadio, check out the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
(28:43):
favorite shows.
Hi, I'm Rick Schwartz.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Wuenel zis World. I'm Marco went.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Amazing Wildlife, where we explore unique stories of
wildlife from around the world and uncovered fascinating animal facts.
This podcast is a production of iHeartRadio's Ruby Studios and
San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance in international nonprofit conservation organization
which oversees the San Diego Zoo and Safari Park. Marco Marco, Marco,
It's today, It's today. It's World Rhino Day.
Speaker 2 (00:30):
I know, man, I'm totally stoked. We get to talk
all about that chubby unicorn we all know and love,
the increive le rhinoceros.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
And for those who may be listening to this after
its release date of September twenty second, don't worry if
you miss World Rhino Day this year. You can catch
it every year on September twenty second and keep listening
because you are not going to want to miss out
on all things rhino in this episode.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
Ah yeah, I mean, I love it when the timing
works out like this. It's like the stuff aligned just
for us to have an episode coming up right on
World Rhino Day. Like many of the other international global
or world days dedicated to a specific species or group
of animals. World Rhino Day is a great day to
share all things rhino, to raise awareness and get others,
(01:19):
like all the kids listening right now, involved in conservation exactly.
Speaker 1 (01:24):
And there is so much to cover when it comes
to rhinos. For example, many people may not know there
are five different species of rhino, the job and rhino,
the Sumatrin rhino, the Greater one horned rhino, the Eastern
black rhino, and the white rhino. And worth noting there
are two subspecies of the white rhino, the Southern white
rhino and Northern white rhino, which we did episodes on
last season if anyone wants to go back and listen
(01:45):
to those, Oh, those.
Speaker 2 (01:46):
Are really good. Love it. And I love this fact
by the way, friend, Even though most people think of
rhinos as hairless, grayish colored, tough skinned animals that just
like ram and things with their horns, they are actually
like many other animals. You know. Those rhinos are looking
to find food, raise their yelling if they have them,
and pretty much live a very peaceful life and be
(02:08):
left alone to do their own thing.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
And I'm going to charge right in with another fact
did you catch that? I got it all right, good.
You mentioned that people tend to think of them as
hairless and tough skinned. Well, all rhinos have hair, but
some species not very much and may be just located
in certain parts of the body, like cute little ear
tufts or something. But get this, the Sumatran rhino tends
(02:31):
to have a full body of reddish brown hair. And
as for the tough skin part, yes, it can look
like they have thick, tough armor plating type skin like
the greater one horned rhino has, but their skin is
more sensitive than you might expect. That's one of the
reasons you may see them wallowing in mud. It helps
to keep parasites off and protect the skin from the sun.
Speaker 2 (02:53):
Oh yeah, the greater one herd rhinos are my favorite.
But okay, hold on, Rick, I know you could probably
spend a full episode sharing a ton of rhino facts. Eh,
But with it being rolled Rhino Day, shouldn't we bring
one of our rhino experts to fill us in and
all things rhino?
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Well, yes, of course, But seeing as you did say
there's a ton, can I just share one more fun fact?
Speaker 2 (03:15):
Totally?
Speaker 1 (03:15):
Okay? Okay, you know, actually before I share the fact
that little noise you made before was that on purpose
because the one horned rhino. Okay, for those who are
listening and don't know this, that you sound that awkward
excited escape Marcos, that is also the sound that one
horned rhinos make. He did a very good job there,
said thank you, You're welcome. No, And so back to
my fun fact. Okay, this one is really a lot
(03:36):
of fun. White rhinos are so big that pound for pound,
the head, this is just the head, okay of a
white rhino can weigh as much as three empty household refrigerators.
Speaker 2 (03:47):
Oh that's a whole lot of rhino, buddy, But I
love that fact too. That's why they have that large
hump of muscle on their shoulders to help hold that
massive head in place.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
Yes, it's true, and for anyone out there who loves
the numbers, on average, an empty household refrigerator weighs about
three hundred pounds. I know this because I googled it.
I didn't actually go weigh one. And a white rhino
is sporting a head that weighs anywhere from eight hundred
to one thousand pounds. So doing the math, three household
refrigerators comes around nine hundred pounds, which is the average
(04:18):
for their head size. And as awesome as these rhino
facts are, You're right, Marco, we do have one of
our many rhino experts from the San Diego Zoo Safari
Park waiting to share everything rhinos with us and our listeners.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Oh man, I wasn't sure if you were gonna able
to stop with all your fun rhino facts. I was
worried We're gonna have to unplug your mic for a second.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
Buddy, Okay, I have some self control, Mark, Okay. Plus,
I don't want to keep our guests waiting. He's a
pretty busy person and honestly we're lucky to catch.
Speaker 3 (04:45):
Him between his travels. I am Gavin Livingston. I am
the curator of Mammals at the San Diego Zoo Safari Park.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Gavin, I'm sure you can tell. Mark and I are
super excited to have you on the podcast today, not
only because the day of this episode comes out is
actually World Rhino Day, but because, as the curator of
mammals for the San Diego Zoo Safari Park, you really
have your finger on the pulse of what the San
Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance is doing for rhinos and rhino conservation.
And as much as we want to cover things like
(05:16):
what does conservation in the past look like and where
do we see rhino conservation going in the future, let's
start with where we are right now. Why is rhino
conservation relevant and important today?
Speaker 3 (05:27):
I think rhino conservation is important today because there's such
a keystone species and the habitats that they live that
protecting rhinos and figuring out how do we keep them
safe and thriving in this modern world helps us then
use that as a multiplier effect to help all the
other species that are may be a little bit less iconic.
If you can focus on those iconic species and protect
(05:48):
where they live, you can protect all kinds of species.
Rhino conservation isn't really about rhinos. It's about an entire
ecosystem or habitat that they live in.
Speaker 2 (05:57):
I have heard that before when conservation is talk about
megafauna or big animals like rhinos and elephants, the term
you use keystone species, meaning that that particular species is
vital for the ecosystem they live in, and in this
case it's rhinos. Can you give me an example of
a roll. One of the rhinos species may have in
its ecosystem that no other species can do for that
(06:18):
particular environment.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
Yeah, it kind of depends which ecosystem they're living in
or what kind of habitat that they're occupying. And they
can serve a role in sort of a brush habitat,
like black rhinos, of clearing brush to allow other species
to navigate through. They help with fire prevention by browsing,
you know, and eating on the brush. In the trees,
they help spread seeds through their dung from the food
that they eat for the grazing species, So they do
play an important niche in their individual habitats.
Speaker 2 (06:42):
Seed dispersers also rhinos are like featherlous casto areas. But
I'm glad you mentioned helping with fire prevention. I know
some people listening right now knew about seed dispersal and
making trails or paths or smaller animals to use, But
sometimes they're a lot less obvious, but just as important
(07:03):
roles each species plays in their ecosystem, like the rhinos
helping with fire prevention simply by eating the plant materials
that they need to eat every day.
Speaker 1 (07:12):
Yeah, you know, I was think of the same thing Marco,
and that always reminds me that just because we do
not always see the obvious role of species plays in
the ecosystem, it doesn't mean there isn't one. Gavin, Now
that we have an idea of the role rhinos play
in their ecosystem, can you share with us what are
some of the different issues and pressures that rhinos face today.
Speaker 3 (07:31):
So unfortunately rhinos have a lot of pressure on them
from multi factors. It's habitat loss, it's spread of livestock
and agriculture, but specifically for African rhino species, its threats
of poaching. The poaching crisis has gotten really severe in
the past fifteen to twenty years, in particular, especially in
Southern Africa, and it's just got to levels that were
(07:51):
completely out of control for a while. Fortunately, there's been
some positive trends in that, and especially during COVID poaching
numbers went down a lot, but then now we're seeing
some increases, but that's starting to tick back up. And
obviously the poaching is for rhino horn trade, and there's
some cultures that believe that rhinohorns have medicinal values and
purposes and that's put a high price on rhinos, and
(08:14):
it made it be very dangerous to be a rhino
in their native habitat in many areas.
Speaker 1 (08:18):
But haven't studies and analysis been done to show that
rhino horn is made up of the protein keratin, the
same as say, a horse hoof.
Speaker 3 (08:25):
That's exactly right. It's just like a fingernail or hair.
It's nothing specially or unique. It's just something that grows naturally.
And it's really unfortunate that there's a belief that rhinohorn
has medicinal properties.
Speaker 2 (08:37):
I know a lot of work has been done to
educate the general public about the fact that rhino horn
is just made up of the same protein as hair
and hoofs and even fingernails, but it sounds like we
still have a lot of work ahead of us. I
know that the San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance and specifically
the Safari Park, has had a long history with rhinos
and educating the public about them. In fact, the rhino
(08:59):
has and one of our main symbols out here for
really really long time.
Speaker 1 (09:03):
Ah, that's true. After all, it's the first thing you
see when you drive up to the Safari Park. The
sign out front is a huge rhino and then you
see them in large habitats and well, if you're lucky,
maybe see some babies out there.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
Oh exactly, all awesome examples. But I want to ask you, Gavin,
what is it about the Safari Park and the rhino
I mean, why do you think those who are so connected.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
I think it's because of what type of park we are, right,
we are a Safari Park. It's in the name. And
when you think a Safari you think rhinos. And when
you look at an organization that's promoting wildlife conservation and
saving the natural world, you have to think about what
are your strengths. And at the Safari Park, our strengths
are large natural, open habitats, and what does really well
in that rhinos. And so when this organization was started
(09:47):
and this park was built, you look at where that
impact lies and we were able to have a huge
impact with rhinos. And so since the park opened, we've
been connecting our visitors with wildlife, specifically rhinos, and then
also making a big difference to the rhino population in
human care so that we can impact those species in
the wild. And so it's really crucial that we do
the work we do here as an organization because we're
(10:09):
working to help not only impact the species in their
native habitat, but create assurance populations in human care as
well to ensure that these species don't go extinct.
Speaker 1 (10:18):
Ah so well, said Gavin. Like conservation of the many
other species we have discussed here on the podcast, there's
no one perfect way to secure the future for wildlife.
It's clearly multifaceted and takes several different areas of focus
to make a difference for all of them.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Oh yeah, definitely. I wanted to ask you one more
thing about our work in creating a safe population for
rhinos here at the Safari Park, Gavin, before I forget though,
one more thing. In the past fifty years of the
Safari Park existing, what species of rhinoceros have lived here
in that time?
Speaker 3 (10:49):
So we've had three species and two subspecies of rhinos
here from the history of the parks. We've had Eastern
black rhinos, which are an African rhino species. We've had
Southern white and Northern white rhinos, which two subspecies of
white rhino, and then Greater one horn rhinos as well.
And we've been very fortunate to be very successful with
all of those species of rhinos here at the Safari Park.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
So I mean, of course I gotta ask. You said,
we have been fortunate to be very successful, right, but
what are the numbers like across the board? How many
rhinos have been born at the Safari Park.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
It's really a pretty incredible number when you think about it.
So we've had over two hundred rhino calves born here
at the Safari Park in the history of the organization,
which is one of the most successful rhino breeding programs
anywhere in the Western Hemisphere. And we've had black, greater
one horn and Southern white rhinos born in those numbers.
Speaker 1 (11:36):
Gavin, you listened to species of rhinos that we have
had success with when it comes to breeding and creating
a safe population here the Sfari Park. I can't help
but notice of the rhinos we have had here, there
was one missing from the list of successful breeding and
that's the northern white rhino. When I started working for
the San Diego Zu Wildlife Alliance over twenty years ago,
we had at least three Northern white rhinos all the time.
(11:59):
Of course, they've passed away from old age without creating offspring.
What is our situation now and where are we with
regards to the Northern white rhino conservation work.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
So unfortunately, there's only two living Northern white rhinos anywhere
in the world, and they're living at Olpagetic Conservancy in Kenya,
and they are two females, and they're both post reproductive,
so they don't have the ability to have any more calves.
The one bright spot though, is that through our Frozen
Zoo here at the San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance, we
have eleven different genetic lions that are frozen and we're
working through our Northern White Rhino Initiative to use conservation
(12:31):
science and conservation genetics to help change the paradigm potentially
create more Northern white rhinos through embryo transfer.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
All the science and everything about the work our teams
are doing with the Frozen Zoo, it always gives me goosebumps.
And I wanted to ask, even though we have a
limited number of Northern white rhino cells in the frozen Zoo,
I heard that when we analyze the genetics, if each
individual represented that there was enough diversity to create a
healthy population, is that right?
Speaker 1 (13:00):
That is correct.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
We're very fortunate that we have really accomplished scientists and
population biologists who are really good at taking and maintaining
small populations and building them larger, and so through scientific management,
we can take those eleven different genetic lines and create
a healthy, thriving population.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
That is really amazing to think that we can leverage
the advancements in science to prevent the extinction of the
northern white rhino.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
Oh, I know what you mean, friend, It is wild.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
I have so many more questions about the science side
of it, but I know that's not your specialty. So
I will save you and our listeners from hearing me
geek out about all the science and everything. And with
that said, we'll switch our focus a little to talk
about the eastern black rhino. Gavin, you had mentioned earlier
the different species and having black renos at one time
at the Safari Park. Can you tell us a little
more about that.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Yeah, So, we historically have housed black renos here at
the Safari Park, and we've been fortunate enough to have
eighteen calves born here in our care and we don't
currently have any on habitat here at the Safari Park,
but through our conservation science department, we're supporting conservation of
black rhinos in US.
Speaker 2 (14:00):
But wait a minute, friend, I know, we've also transported
an Eastern black rhino back to Africa to help with
the conservation as well. Can you share a little bit
of that story.
Speaker 3 (14:10):
Yeah, and that's a really cool story. So we were
fortunate enough to be able to take a black rhino
named Eric who was born in human care here at
the Safari Park, and transfer him to Tanzania where he
was able to take genetics that weren't represented in that population,
that were new to that area, and then put him
on a conservancy there and spread those genes into the
population that make it thriving and healthier than it was before.
Speaker 1 (14:30):
I have to admit what I love about that story
and everything you've shared so far. There's just no one
answer to conservation. It takes a lot of creativity, a
lot of thinking outside of the box, a lot of science,
a lot of people coming together. I mean, just the
idea that hey, we're going to send a rhino back
to Africa to help with the genetics there. We have
different individuals in the frozen zoo to help with the
future population that can no longer breed on its own.
(14:52):
And with all of that and with everything we're doing
working together, it really seems it takes a lot of
people doing a lot of creative work.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
That's completely true. I mean, conservation really takes in all
of the above approach because we're no longer in sort
of this mindset where Western conservation groups go to range
countries and tell countries how to manage their own animals.
That's not effective and that's not what we're trying to do.
We're really looking to take tools from many different disciplines,
including hard sciences but also social science to look at,
you know, how people interact with animals in their area,
(15:21):
and how they can live in harmony with the wildlife
around them, and how do you even create a system
where it's beneficial to live around wildlife. And so it's
not just one answer, it's many different disciplines, as you said,
coming together, and that's really what's going to change the
paradigm for wildlife.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
Oh.
Speaker 2 (15:35):
I love that the use of different disciplines, just like
in the wild, right, the more diversity, the healthier the population.
I love that word diversity. So it is true for
a conservation approach, is diversity wins every time. In fact,
that makes me think of yet another aspect to the
conservation puzzle. And that's all the things that we've learned
(15:58):
about other species under our care. I mean, sometimes what
we do and what we learn while caring for wildlife
here at the zoo or the Safari Park becomes important
information to then share with our friends that work with
these species in their native habitats. What sort of work
have we done with rhinos that is translated to supporting
knowledge for those doing work in the field.
Speaker 3 (16:19):
We're really fortunate because the wildlife care specialists we have
here at the Safari Park and at the Zoo that
care for our rhinos every day develop incredible relationships with
those animals, and through those relationships, we're able to learn
so much about the behavior and even natural history of
these species that we didn't know before. So with these
relationships they developed, they're able to see how do rhinos
utilize different spaces, how do rhinos adapt to change in
(16:42):
their environment. We can take part in nutritional studies as well,
to see how do different food items that are presented
to rhinos impact their overall health and well being. When
you have animals in human care that have strong relationships
with their caregivers, you're able to multiply that and really
impact those species in the wild. I mean, if you
think about it a rhino and Kenya who's out in
the field. You're not going to be able to see
(17:03):
everything it does. You're not going to be able to
know how does that animal react to a novel object
in the area. But that can be really important when
you're thinking about reintroducing animals to an area that they
weren't living, because you need to know how would rhino
as you're reintroducing impact fences that they see, how would
they deal with seeing vehicles? So we're able to take
that information we gain here and directly impact those conservation
(17:24):
projects in the field. So it's not only about connecting
visitors here at the Safari Park with rhinos and wanting
them to help save them in the wild, but it's
also about taking that knowledge and directly impacting species conservation
in their native habitat.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
That's one thing I really love about doing these interviews
and having this opportunity to talk to people to do
the work you do and you're in charge of the
teams doing all this work and you travel all over
for this too, is that it really allows our audience
to understand it. Yeah, you come here to this farire
park and you're going to enjoy your day, you see
some really cool animals. By the way, we're nonprofits, so
anything you're doing here it helps our work. But then
(17:56):
to actually have the opportunity to peak behind a curtain
to go this is all the layers of work going
into conservation and how every little part is so important.
I think it's so cool to hear that and really
get a clear picture of that. So thank you.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Oh no doubt, Rich, I mean, it really is great
to see these insider perspectives and to take it a
step further. Gavin, we talked about how the Safari Park
has done so much and it's a great space for
breeding rhinos and all the incredible work for these species,
but we're not doing it alone. Historically, zoos have worked together,
whether it's sharing what we've learned about a particular species,
(18:32):
or collaborating on best veterinary techniques, or even playing matchmaker
to help increase the population of endangered species. Can you
share with our listeners just a little bit about our
work with other accredited zoos and aquariums.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
I think that's something really important for us to touch on.
So I'm glad you mentioned that because it isn't just
a one zoo approach, and it's a lot of science
that goes into managing these wildlife populations. And so we're
really fortunate to work with our partners at the Association
of Zoos and Aquariums in the Species Survival Plans, And
basically what that is is sort of a scientific based
breeding program for the rhino species and other species we
(19:07):
work with. And every couple of years, all of the
zeus who have rhinos get together and they decide what
are the best moves and recommendations we can make to
make the healthiest rhino population while also taking into account
the individual animals, their behaviors and their likes and dislikes
to make sure that we don't see them as just
one population, but we also see them as individual animals too.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
Well. There it is again we see the importance of
the collaboration and everyone working together. And I appreciate the
perspective that the Species Viible Plans have that it's not
just about the overall population, but also seeing the individuals
in the population and taking into account the whole picture
for conservation. I am really excited to see where all
this collaboration takes us moving forward.
Speaker 2 (19:47):
Yeah, let me see, Rick, I mean, we still have
so much to do. Gavin, in your opinion, what's the
future of rhino conservation?
Speaker 3 (19:55):
I think the future of rhino conservation is really going
to be focused around partnerships. It's conservation organizations, nonprofit groups,
zoological facilities and then range countries all working together to
protect rhinos. It's not one type of organization can support
rhinos anywhere in the world. It's not different groups coming
in and telling countries how to manage their rhinos. It's
really everybody working together and taking their strengths to put
(20:17):
all that together to create a change for rhinos. Because
as we've seen, it's a really difficult thing to do,
and we can't think that anyone has the one answer
and how to save rhinos. It really is that all
of the above approach that's going to be required to
save these species.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Oh, I have to ask because knowing there are a
lot of different people in groups coming together for rhino conservation,
and knowing that rhinos are still facing serious challenges in
the wild, are there any bright spots in all this?
Are we headed in the right direction?
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Fortunately, there is a bright spot. It's not all bad
news for rhinos. So the greater one horned rhino is
the species that's doing the best statistically speaking of rhinos
in their native habitats. So the greater one horn rhino
was down to about thirty two hundred animals in the
wild about ten years ago, and now that population has
increased to a little over four thousand, which has been
statistically a huge increase for that species. And that's primarily
(21:05):
linked to the partnerships and works done between the native
range countries Nepal, Bhutan, and India and the conservation groups
that work there as well, the International Rhino Foundation Wildlife
Conservation Society. There's been a lot of work done to
support those species there and it's really showing a huge
impact for them.
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Oh that's awesome here, and it really reinforces the need
for partnerships and all of the collaborative work that we've
been talking.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
About exactly Marco. It really is good news, Gavin, knowing
that the multifaceted approach is needed and knowing that the
partnerships and working with local communities is working. I have
to ask when you go visit with the communities participating
in this conservation work, seeing the struggles and the successes,
sharing what we know and learning from them as well
(21:49):
then coming back here and sharing all of this with
our staff and working side by side with the wildlife
care specialists. For you, personally, what's that like being a
part of that.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
I'm continually fired every day by the work that our
teams do here. It's really amazing to come to work
every day and get to be a part of changing
the world. And that's really what we're doing here at
the San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance. Every one of us
is playing a small part into this larger mission of
creating a world where all life thrives, and it particularly
to rhinos. I've loved rhinos ever since I was a kid,
and so now to get to work in an organization
(22:20):
that changes the paradigm for rhinos like we're taking part in,
it's really inspiring and I feel lucky to do this
every day.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Ah, friend, I love that you mentioned you have loved
rhinos since you were a kid. I know we have
a lot of young listeners that have a passion for
wildlife and maybe even a love for a specific species,
so I am sure they can relate. But I'm a
little bit curious if you could imagine yourself sitting down
next to your younger self, little Gavin, and say, this
(22:49):
is what you're going to be doing when you get older.
What would that be like? Do you think your little
head will just.
Speaker 1 (22:55):
Explode or what it really would?
Speaker 3 (22:57):
I would be so excited. I remember I've rhinos since
an early age because a triceratops was my favorite dinosaur,
and I thought that a rhino was the most like
a triceratops, And so I thought, can I actually work
with a real triceratops? Not quite, but rhinos are a
pretty close second. I don't think I would believe that
I'm getting to do what I do every day now.
It really is a dream come true.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Oh I love that, I really do, and I want
to take it a step further. If there's a kid
listening right now who wants to work with rhinos, be it,
I don't know, in a curatorial position like yourself, or
as a wildlifecare specialist, or maybe someone who does work
in another country. What would be the direction you would
point them in? What would you want to say to
them for their dreams and aspirations to work with rhinos?
Speaker 3 (23:38):
Well, first thing I would tell them is that no
one's path looks the same. So don't think that just
because you come from a certain background or you have
a certain level of education, that you can't get to
work with wildlife. No one's path is identical. But I mean,
if you're really interested in working with rhinos or any
other wildlife species, I'd highly encourage you to learn about
their natural history, learn about what the habitats where these
animals are living, so that you can know how how
(24:00):
best to care for them in a human environment. But
then also work on your education, work on meeting your
local zoos, and just do what you can to start
to build that network, because that's really helpful to get
your foot in the door.
Speaker 2 (24:11):
That is all good advice for someone looking to get
started working with wildlife. But I have one more question
for you, Gavin. You've had a pretty amazing career thus far,
doing so much for wildlife conservation. But of all the
things you've experienced, is there one that you would consider
the most memorable with rhinos or any other species you
may have worked with.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Well, that's a good question.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
That's a tough one. I get to do so many
amazing things in my role here, but I think I'm
going to have to use a non rhino example.
Speaker 1 (24:38):
That's great.
Speaker 3 (24:39):
I think the experience that changed me the most was
the first time I got to help with a wildlife
reintroduction and that was for Cemtar horned oris in Chad
and I remember that day specifically being there collaring Cemtar
horn do oorics that we released back into the wild,
and it was particularly special for me because those were
animals that were born into human care that were then
sent to chat I think going back out into their
(25:01):
native habitat where they belong and getting to see that
end of this cycle and everything come full circle and
seeing how we can really is wildlife conservation has truly
impact animals in the wild and that tangible form that
was something I'll never forget. It was life changing for me.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Ah, such a great story, Gavin. I can't thank you
enough for taking the time to sit with us and
share your knowledge and passion for rhino conservation.
Speaker 2 (25:24):
Yes, yeah, Machisi was grass Am Eagle. This was awesome.
Speaker 3 (25:28):
Absolutely. It was a great opportunity to share the work
that our teams do here with rhinos every day and
I really enjoyed it. Thank you.
Speaker 2 (25:36):
Oh, that was such a great talk with Gavin. He
shared so many great details about rhino conservation. I loved
how his favorite dinosaur was at Triceratops and how he
loves rhinos. Now, I mean my favorite dinosaur was a
Terry dact though, so it makes perfect sense.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
I mean some people might argue Terry Doctors was Oh
that's true, that's.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
You know what I was inspired as a child. That's
the boy that is inspired.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
By the fossils of other animals, and it was a
whole lot of fun. Well, I think you're right though.
Either way, Gavin was a perfect guest for World Rhino Day.
And I know our listeners are all fans of the
San Diego Zoo, Wildlife Alliance and animal lovers. But there's
one more topic we need to cover. Marco.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Oh yeah, well, I think I know where you're going
with this front and I agree, But I think maybe
we need to talk a little bit more about how
people can help.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
With rhinos exactly. And I'd have to say, first and foremost,
we need to keep raising awareness that rhino'horn is just keratin,
a protein that makes up our hair, our fingernails, cloths
and horns of other animals. This may seem like a
silly thing to have to say, but many people out
there still believe rhino horn is unique and has special
powers or medical benefits to humans. Because of this, rhinos
(26:45):
are hunted illegally for their horns.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Yeah, exactly. And by raising awareness and sharing these facts
with others whenever possible, we can stop the demand for
rhino horn and hopefully stop the poaching.
Speaker 1 (26:57):
And there are other ways people can help. It's by
supporting organizations like the Sandegozu Wildlife Alliance and our many
allies working in Africa and Asia for rhinos. By supporting
conservation organizations, we can secure supplies and help communities manage
the land they share with wildlife.
Speaker 2 (27:13):
And if anyone is listening who wants to become an
ally for wildlife and join us in a rhino conservation efforts,
I definitely encourage you to go to our website SDZWA
dot org to find out more about rhino conservation and
how you can support our work and the work of
our partners.
Speaker 1 (27:31):
Couldn't said better myself, buddy, Thanks sar Man, Hey Marco.
Before we wrap this up, can I drop one more
fun rhino fact?
Speaker 2 (27:38):
Oh yeah, man, go for it.
Speaker 1 (27:39):
Okay, Well, you know how the cheetah is the fastest
land mammal. Right, yeah, yeah, we get this. The rhino
should not be underestimated. Although they can't keep up with
the cheetah, they can run about thirty five miles an hour,
and a black rhino has even been clocked closer to
forty miles an hour.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Oh no, definitely not cheata speeds. But that's a lot
faster than I can shiver.
Speaker 1 (27:59):
Right, it's pretty impressive. Okay, speaking of running, we are
running out of time here, but I want to make
sure everyone subscribes and tunes into our next episode, in
which Marco and I explore some of the unique species
in our own backyard right here in San Diego County.
Marco lit and I'm Rick Schwartz. Thanks for listening. For
(28:21):
more information about the San Diego Zoo and San Diego
Zoo Safari Park, go to SDZWA dot org. Amazing Wildlife
is a production of iHeartRadio's Ruby Studios. Our supervising producer
is Nikiah Swinton, and our sound designer and editor is
Sierra Spreen. For more shows from iHeartRadio, check out the
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your
(28:43):
favorite shows.
Hosts And Creators
Rick Schwartz
Marco Wendt
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