October 14, 2022 • 19 mins
In today’s episode, Amazing Wildlife is talking all about the world’s largest amphibian, the Chinese giant salamander! Hosts Rick and Ebone explore the world of this sleek and mysterious gill-less creature that can breath underwater because of its skin. Brett Baldwin, Associate Curator of Herpetology and Ichthyology, stops by to discuss efforts to stop illegal poaching of this critically endangered species.
If you have a question for Amazing Wildlife you can send them to wildlife@iheartmedia.com for your chance to hear it on the show!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hi, I'm Richwartz and I'm Apanemona A. Welcome to Amazing Wildlife,
where we explore the unique stories of wildlife from around
the world and uncover fascinating animal facts. This podcast is
a production of I Heart Radio and San Diego Zoo
Wildlife Alliance, and international nonprofit conservation organization behind the San
Diego Zoo and Safari Park. The Chinese giant salamander is
(00:27):
the largest living amphibian on the planet, with some reaching
nearly six feet in length. They are well camouflaged and
the rushing waters of China's Mountain river system, where they
were once common but are now critically endangered due to
habitat loss and excessive hunting. Rick, we hear about species
(00:49):
that are vulnerable and unfortunately about ones that are endangered.
But how dire of a situation is it once an
animal reaches the status of critically endangered ebony. I'll answer
your question just a moment, but first I want to
bring our audience up to speed on this amazing amphibian
we're talking about in this episode. Like you said, these
(01:11):
grayish brown salamanders are capable of reaching six feet in
length and weighing as much as a hundred ten pounds. Oh,
and get this, they can live upwards of eighty years,
with some unofficial reports stating there was one found that
was over one hundred years old. We also know from
fossil records that this species existed around the same time
as dinosaurs, some three hundred fifty million years ago. These
(01:34):
are truly fascinating amphibians and I am so glad we're
taking the time to talk about them and now to
follow up on your question. Unfortunately, Ebany, it is indeed
a dire situation when any species reaches the status of
critically endangered. The International Union for Conservation of Science or
i u c N, states that the critically endangered listing
or category contains those species that possess an extremely high
(01:58):
risk of extinction as a result of rapid population declines
of eighty or more than over the previous ten years
or three generations, a current population size of fewer than
fifty individuals, or other factors. And it's worth noting that
the i UCN red List does not consider a species
extinct until extensive targeted surveys have been conducted. Therefore, species
(02:22):
that are possibly extinct might still be listed as critically endangered.
All the more reason to raise awareness about the Chinese
giant salamander. Now, the giant salamander is protected by laws
restricting its international trade, yet overharvesting for human consumption is
still a major problem. What's being done to help ebany?
(02:46):
There are a couple of things going on to help
in the conservation of the Chinese giant salamander in China.
This species is listed as a class to state major
protected wildlife species. It occurs or at least used to occur,
in many natural reserves within its range, and some natural
reserves even use the species as their main conservation target.
(03:07):
There are some under human care for breeding and rearing,
and it's believed to have had some success, but these
projects are mainly to meet the market demand because, as
you mentioned, they are harvested for human consumption. At this time,
there isn't enough data to say if the breeding programs
have had enough of an impact for the overall population,
and it's worth noting China has implemented an educational program
(03:29):
to help people understand the needs for conservation of the species,
but more time is needed to better understand how successful
all of that really is, and the Chinese giant salamander
has been resilient over the years. They are considered, in fact,
like you mentioned, living fossils, having seen the dinosaurs come
(03:51):
and go. Rick, what do scientists mean when they say
that the ancestors of the giant salamander diverge from all
other amphis me in more than one hundred and seventy
million years ago. Well, essentially, Ebany, the Chinese giant salamander.
They're one of three known giant types of salamander, all
of which diverged from other amphibians during the Jurassic period.
(04:14):
The Japanese giant salamander is a bit smaller than its
Chinese counterpart, while North America's largest salamander, the hellbender, may
reach up to twenty inches or just over two feet
in length. With the millions of years that they have
been around, it has earned them the nickname of a
living fossil. Rick, Can you expand on the differences between
the various species of giant salamander? Oh, yes, Ebany. Although
(04:37):
we have three officially recognized species alive today, the Chinese
giant salamander, the Japanese giant salamander, and the North American hellbender.
A study published in the journal current Biology states that
scientists trace the genetics of one thousand, one hundred giant
salamanders and discovered that they were more evolutionarily distinct than
previously thought. The results suggest that there could be at
(05:00):
least five distinct species of giant salamanders that developed independently
and isolated locations over millions of years. Rick, let's talk
more about what makes the Chinese giant salamanders so unique?
About some more of its um unique traits. What adaptations
allow for it to live entirely underwater? Oh, honestly, many
(05:23):
I think the coolest adaptation that they have for life
underwater is their skin. Now, it might seem odd to
say that, but you have to understand these salamanders live
their whole life underwater, and they have no gills. Their
skin allows for the transfer of oxygen into the body
and the release of carbon dioxide out of the body,
making their skin a true respiratory surface, almost like the
(05:46):
inside of our lungs. And to help maximize their ability
to breathe like this, a conspicuous fold of skin along
the salamander's flanks increases the surface area of the skin
through which oxygen can be taken. In this is why
you will only find them in fast flowing, moderately shallow
waters because these waters are well oxygenated due to the
tumbling flow of the water. That is so interesting. So
(06:10):
we start off the conversation by referencing the giant salamander's
impressive ability to camouflage. Can you explain how the amphibian
is able to remain relatively undetected and stay so mysterious? Oh? Yes, evany,
they are well camouflaged and tend to stay very still,
(06:30):
making them so hard to see. They are sort of
this modeled grayish or greenish and brown color, with a long,
thick body and four stubby limbs. Their heads are blunt,
almost shaped like a rounded shovel head, with tiny eyes
behind their nostrils. Its long tail makes up over half
of its body length as well. All of this to say,
it easily blends into the rocks and logs at the
(06:53):
bottom of fast moving water where it lives. And I'll
share this as well. We have one living at the
Wildlife Explorers base camp at to Sandy Go Zoo. I
know exactly where it lives, I know its favorite hiding spots,
and it's still hard to see sometimes giant salamanders are
also known for having poor eyesight. How do they work
around this shortcoming? You're right, ebony. Their tiny eyes aren't
(07:15):
much help for seeing the world around them, and most
likely serve as a way to detect contrasting light and
dark areas. So instead of keen eyesight, these giant salamanders
detect prey by sensing their vibrations in the water. Sensory
nodes run alongside of the Chinese giant salamander's body from
head to tail, enabling it to detect prey movement. These
(07:36):
sensory nodes are so effective that the salamanders are most
active at nighttime because they don't need the light to
see their prey. So, speaking of prey, what do Chinese
giant salamanders eat? The Chinese giant salamander fills the top
predatory niche in the rushing freshwater ecosystems. They will consume fish, frogs, worms, snails, insects, crayfish, crabs,
(07:59):
and even small salamanders. Like any top predator of their ecosystem,
they help keep other animal populations in balance. This, in turn,
keeps the freshwater ecosystem healthy and well. Let's move on
to their behavior. The behavior of the Chinese giant salamander.
They may not be easily spotted, but are they known
for making any sounds, or swimming fast, or exhibiting any
(08:23):
other detectable behaviors. Well, Eban, like you mentioned, they are
primarily nocturnal and live in fast moving waters. When I
first started learning about them, I assumed that they were
also very good swimmers. Truth is, they aren't very strong
swimmers at all. In fact, more often than not, they
don't swim, but rather go with the flow if heading downstream,
(08:45):
and if they're heading up stream, they do a slow
walk along the bottom of the stream or river, gripping
and pushing against rocks with their feet along with thrusting
forward with their paddle like tail. And when it comes
to vocalizations, well, it isn't very well studied. I looked
around quite a bit, and the only documentation I could
find that was out there about their ability to vocalize
states that they make a call similar to a human
(09:07):
baby crying when they're captured. But it's fair to say
we don't know enough about their ability to communicate underwater
to know if there's other sounds they might be making
as well. Yeah, I read that too. That was that
was kind of said to read and imagine as well.
So what about their family structure, their family life and
phibian's um at least the ones we've covered so far.
(09:28):
They may not be known for having complex social structures
like some other animals. But what can you tell us
about the Chinese giant salamanders reproductive practices? Well, for the
Chinese giant salamanders, breeding season is usually within July, August
and September, when the water temperature warms to about sixty
degrees fahrenheit. Males and females do not interact or cohabitate
(09:51):
during other times of the year, but during the breeding
season they will when the time is right. The female
will lay four hundred to five eggs in a string
in an underwater bird and usually goes back to her
solitary life. The male will fertilize them and protect those
eggs for the next one to two months until they hatch.
But once they do hatch, they're on their own. The
(10:11):
mails will go about their business and the offspring will
receive no parental care. So there's not really a lot
of social behavior going on, at least not that we
know of. Just ahead, we'll talk to Brett Baldwin, an
Associate curator of Herpetology and Ichthyology with San Diego Zoo
Wildlife Alliance. But first this Now it's time for the
(10:35):
San Diego Zoom Minute, an opportunity for you to learn
what's new at the Zoo. Now we've been talking about
the Chinese giant salamander and spotting this critically endangered species
in its native habitat is exceedingly rare, but guests at
the San Diego Zoo now have the unique opportunity to
take a close look at a sleek and mysterious creature
(10:56):
at the newly opened Wildlife Explorers Base Camp Sandy goes To.
Wildlife Alliance and conservation partners including Ocean Park Hong Kong,
are working toward the goal of creating a breeding group
of Chinese giant salamanders. The goal is to eventually re
establish depleted populations in the Chinese giant salamanders native range,
while at the same time educating the public about the
(11:17):
conservation of its habitat in China. Did you know all
three types of giant salamander produced a sticky white skin
secretion that repels predators except humans. Wild Life Explorer's Base
(11:38):
Camp at the San Diego Zoo is one of only
six places in the US where guests can experience Chinese
giant salamanders. This large amphibian can be seen in the
Cool Critters Building and is one of many species in
the newly opened immersive environment. Brett Baldwin is the Associate
curator of Herpetology and ich Theology with the same A
(12:00):
Zoo Wildlife Alliance, and is joining the conversation as we
continue to learn about this unique amphibian, the Chinese giant salamander.
Hi Bratt, Hey, how are you great? So, as the
associate curator of Herpetology, which is the study of reptiles
and amphibians, I'm learning and in theology, which is the
(12:20):
study of fish, how would you describe your position? So
I oversee animal care and husbandry of the said departments.
I ensure that the habitats the housing they're in are
up to and beyond as a standard with the public views.
Is aesthetically pleasing, but yet also making sure that it's
(12:44):
best for the animals too, so there's two different aspects
of it. I also manage the animal moves and shipments,
which we do a lot of here and I oversee
a population management of those animals reptiles and amphibians and fish,
so the reproduction of all the animals we house and
care for at the zoo and the safari park. So
(13:04):
with the Chinese giant salamander and amphibians as a whole,
they're said to reflect the health of the environment because
they absorb the water and oxygen through their skin. What
does that mean for you? What does that take um
to care for such an animal. So what that means
is they're like the canary in the coal mind where
(13:24):
they are an indicator of what's going on around you
that you might not know because of their physiology, their skin,
how they absorb moisture through their skin, their skin is
very sensitive, so they are very sensitive to any changes
in the environment. So what are some of the major
factors contributing to the decline of the Chinese giant salamander?
(13:48):
Historically it's been human consumption. They're required from the wild
or many many many decades for food medicinal purposes. Pollution
has been a contributor and the habitat loss to building
up dams, changing waterways that has done a lot to
to reduce where they live but the main thing, even
(14:09):
recent studies has shown that that it's still people that
are collecting them from the wild, because there's a lot
of these farms that have been set up over the
last couple of decades where they farm these salamanders in
large numbers. And speaking of that, um, the diminishing wild
population led the Chinese government to encourage farming of the
(14:31):
species to satisfy the continued culinary demand for the giant salamander.
But I understand that this intended solution has actually caused
some other problems. Can you explain. Yes, So, in theory,
it sounds like, wow, that's a really good idea bringing
these animals and breathe them so that there's these big
(14:53):
populations of them. But it's likely that these places are
not doing the disease testing frequently and they may be
housed in crowded situations. Also, we know that there's three
different lineages now of these salamanders as of recent so
they could be there's a new species that they've described
(15:13):
they know it's genetically different, and then a third one also. So, um,
there's this question whether or not it's a good idea
to have these animals in these large farms and to
actually release them into the wild because again, as I
mentioned before, the amphibians are very sensitive to disease, so
in a large population, it's very easily for disease to
(15:36):
be there. And unless they're doing regular testing and there's
veterinary care going on on a regular basis and the
DNA the genetics are known, then it creates a different situation.
So some salamanders can regenerate a tell or a toe
or an entire limb if injured. Is that the case
(16:00):
with the Chinese giant salamander? It is. Indeed, there has
been a report where an animal had leg missing and
then after a year or so it had another leg
had regrown it. Yeah, so it's thought that maybe it
has something to do with the earlier stages in their
life when they're younger, that it's more likely that that
(16:22):
occurs as they get older, it may not happen. That
superpower phades a bit. So that's pretty cool and hard
to beat. But is there any other characteristics that you
find to be the most interesting about the giant salamander?
The size of it is what really gets me, because
we have our native salamanders here in southern California that
(16:42):
are three to five inches long, and they look so similar,
yet the size difference is just incredible that they're in
this very closely related How closely related they are? And
how can people better coexist with the Chinese giants element
or is there anything that that we could do better?
(17:03):
I think that it's really important that people understand how
many there used to be where they used to live,
and then how it got to the numbers that they
are now. That's the big one. Educating the younger people
that will be taking care of this situation in the
future and making sure that they understand what used to
(17:25):
be and how it got there. And what would you
say is the best part of your job? What's your
favorite part of your position? I work with such a
diverse group of animals like lizard, snakes, turtles, frogs, fish,
and that's really just a huge bonus. Every day is different.
One day I come in and there's a medical procedure
(17:47):
that's going on with the giant main Shan mountain viper
also from China that's very rare, which we may be
doing X rays on it or CT stand on this snake.
And then the next day maybe there's a bunch of
baby turtles hatching and the incubator that we've been waiting
for for three months. And then the following day we're
(18:07):
boxing up some crocodiles to chip FedEx to another zoo
across the country. So I think that because I get
to do something different every day, it's just like that
makes it exciting. Thank you to Brett Baldwin, the Associate
curator of Herpetology and Ichthyology with San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance.
(18:31):
Thanks so much, Thank you, thanks for listening. We hope
you've enjoyed learning about the Chinese giant salamander. Be sure
to subscribe and tune into next week's episode, and which
will bring you the story of an animal no one
for defying typical biological laws and has become well known
thanks to a popular online video game that involves mining
(18:52):
and crafting. I'm empty money and I'm Rich Schwartz. Thanks
for me. If you would like to find out more
about San Diego Zoo Wild Left Alliance, please visit sdz
w a dot org. Amazing Wildlife is a production of
I Heart Radio. Our producer is Nikkia Swinton and our
(19:12):
executive producer is Marcia to Peina. Our audio engineer and
editor is Sierra Spreen. For more shows from my Heart Radio,
check out the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hi, I'm Richwartz and I'm Apanemona A. Welcome to Amazing Wildlife,
where we explore the unique stories of wildlife from around
the world and uncover fascinating animal facts. This podcast is
a production of I Heart Radio and San Diego Zoo
Wildlife Alliance, and international nonprofit conservation organization behind the San
Diego Zoo and Safari Park. The Chinese giant salamander is
(00:27):
the largest living amphibian on the planet, with some reaching
nearly six feet in length. They are well camouflaged and
the rushing waters of China's Mountain river system, where they
were once common but are now critically endangered due to
habitat loss and excessive hunting. Rick, we hear about species
(00:49):
that are vulnerable and unfortunately about ones that are endangered.
But how dire of a situation is it once an
animal reaches the status of critically endangered ebony. I'll answer
your question just a moment, but first I want to
bring our audience up to speed on this amazing amphibian
we're talking about in this episode. Like you said, these
(01:11):
grayish brown salamanders are capable of reaching six feet in
length and weighing as much as a hundred ten pounds. Oh,
and get this, they can live upwards of eighty years,
with some unofficial reports stating there was one found that
was over one hundred years old. We also know from
fossil records that this species existed around the same time
as dinosaurs, some three hundred fifty million years ago. These
(01:34):
are truly fascinating amphibians and I am so glad we're
taking the time to talk about them and now to
follow up on your question. Unfortunately, Ebany, it is indeed
a dire situation when any species reaches the status of
critically endangered. The International Union for Conservation of Science or
i u c N, states that the critically endangered listing
or category contains those species that possess an extremely high
(01:58):
risk of extinction as a result of rapid population declines
of eighty or more than over the previous ten years
or three generations, a current population size of fewer than
fifty individuals, or other factors. And it's worth noting that
the i UCN red List does not consider a species
extinct until extensive targeted surveys have been conducted. Therefore, species
(02:22):
that are possibly extinct might still be listed as critically endangered.
All the more reason to raise awareness about the Chinese
giant salamander. Now, the giant salamander is protected by laws
restricting its international trade, yet overharvesting for human consumption is
still a major problem. What's being done to help ebany?
(02:46):
There are a couple of things going on to help
in the conservation of the Chinese giant salamander in China.
This species is listed as a class to state major
protected wildlife species. It occurs or at least used to occur,
in many natural reserves within its range, and some natural
reserves even use the species as their main conservation target.
(03:07):
There are some under human care for breeding and rearing,
and it's believed to have had some success, but these
projects are mainly to meet the market demand because, as
you mentioned, they are harvested for human consumption. At this time,
there isn't enough data to say if the breeding programs
have had enough of an impact for the overall population,
and it's worth noting China has implemented an educational program
(03:29):
to help people understand the needs for conservation of the species,
but more time is needed to better understand how successful
all of that really is, and the Chinese giant salamander
has been resilient over the years. They are considered, in fact,
like you mentioned, living fossils, having seen the dinosaurs come
(03:51):
and go. Rick, what do scientists mean when they say
that the ancestors of the giant salamander diverge from all
other amphis me in more than one hundred and seventy
million years ago. Well, essentially, Ebany, the Chinese giant salamander.
They're one of three known giant types of salamander, all
of which diverged from other amphibians during the Jurassic period.
(04:14):
The Japanese giant salamander is a bit smaller than its
Chinese counterpart, while North America's largest salamander, the hellbender, may
reach up to twenty inches or just over two feet
in length. With the millions of years that they have
been around, it has earned them the nickname of a
living fossil. Rick, Can you expand on the differences between
the various species of giant salamander? Oh, yes, Ebany. Although
(04:37):
we have three officially recognized species alive today, the Chinese
giant salamander, the Japanese giant salamander, and the North American hellbender.
A study published in the journal current Biology states that
scientists trace the genetics of one thousand, one hundred giant
salamanders and discovered that they were more evolutionarily distinct than
previously thought. The results suggest that there could be at
(05:00):
least five distinct species of giant salamanders that developed independently
and isolated locations over millions of years. Rick, let's talk
more about what makes the Chinese giant salamanders so unique?
About some more of its um unique traits. What adaptations
allow for it to live entirely underwater? Oh, honestly, many
(05:23):
I think the coolest adaptation that they have for life
underwater is their skin. Now, it might seem odd to
say that, but you have to understand these salamanders live
their whole life underwater, and they have no gills. Their
skin allows for the transfer of oxygen into the body
and the release of carbon dioxide out of the body,
making their skin a true respiratory surface, almost like the
(05:46):
inside of our lungs. And to help maximize their ability
to breathe like this, a conspicuous fold of skin along
the salamander's flanks increases the surface area of the skin
through which oxygen can be taken. In this is why
you will only find them in fast flowing, moderately shallow
waters because these waters are well oxygenated due to the
tumbling flow of the water. That is so interesting. So
(06:10):
we start off the conversation by referencing the giant salamander's
impressive ability to camouflage. Can you explain how the amphibian
is able to remain relatively undetected and stay so mysterious? Oh? Yes, evany,
they are well camouflaged and tend to stay very still,
(06:30):
making them so hard to see. They are sort of
this modeled grayish or greenish and brown color, with a long,
thick body and four stubby limbs. Their heads are blunt,
almost shaped like a rounded shovel head, with tiny eyes
behind their nostrils. Its long tail makes up over half
of its body length as well. All of this to say,
it easily blends into the rocks and logs at the
(06:53):
bottom of fast moving water where it lives. And I'll
share this as well. We have one living at the
Wildlife Explorers base camp at to Sandy Go Zoo. I
know exactly where it lives, I know its favorite hiding spots,
and it's still hard to see sometimes giant salamanders are
also known for having poor eyesight. How do they work
around this shortcoming? You're right, ebony. Their tiny eyes aren't
(07:15):
much help for seeing the world around them, and most
likely serve as a way to detect contrasting light and
dark areas. So instead of keen eyesight, these giant salamanders
detect prey by sensing their vibrations in the water. Sensory
nodes run alongside of the Chinese giant salamander's body from
head to tail, enabling it to detect prey movement. These
(07:36):
sensory nodes are so effective that the salamanders are most
active at nighttime because they don't need the light to
see their prey. So, speaking of prey, what do Chinese
giant salamanders eat? The Chinese giant salamander fills the top
predatory niche in the rushing freshwater ecosystems. They will consume fish, frogs, worms, snails, insects, crayfish, crabs,
(07:59):
and even small salamanders. Like any top predator of their ecosystem,
they help keep other animal populations in balance. This, in turn,
keeps the freshwater ecosystem healthy and well. Let's move on
to their behavior. The behavior of the Chinese giant salamander.
They may not be easily spotted, but are they known
for making any sounds, or swimming fast, or exhibiting any
(08:23):
other detectable behaviors. Well, Eban, like you mentioned, they are
primarily nocturnal and live in fast moving waters. When I
first started learning about them, I assumed that they were
also very good swimmers. Truth is, they aren't very strong
swimmers at all. In fact, more often than not, they
don't swim, but rather go with the flow if heading downstream,
(08:45):
and if they're heading up stream, they do a slow
walk along the bottom of the stream or river, gripping
and pushing against rocks with their feet along with thrusting
forward with their paddle like tail. And when it comes
to vocalizations, well, it isn't very well studied. I looked
around quite a bit, and the only documentation I could
find that was out there about their ability to vocalize
states that they make a call similar to a human
(09:07):
baby crying when they're captured. But it's fair to say
we don't know enough about their ability to communicate underwater
to know if there's other sounds they might be making
as well. Yeah, I read that too. That was that
was kind of said to read and imagine as well.
So what about their family structure, their family life and
phibian's um at least the ones we've covered so far.
(09:28):
They may not be known for having complex social structures
like some other animals. But what can you tell us
about the Chinese giant salamanders reproductive practices? Well, for the
Chinese giant salamanders, breeding season is usually within July, August
and September, when the water temperature warms to about sixty
degrees fahrenheit. Males and females do not interact or cohabitate
(09:51):
during other times of the year, but during the breeding
season they will when the time is right. The female
will lay four hundred to five eggs in a string
in an underwater bird and usually goes back to her
solitary life. The male will fertilize them and protect those
eggs for the next one to two months until they hatch.
But once they do hatch, they're on their own. The
(10:11):
mails will go about their business and the offspring will
receive no parental care. So there's not really a lot
of social behavior going on, at least not that we
know of. Just ahead, we'll talk to Brett Baldwin, an
Associate curator of Herpetology and Ichthyology with San Diego Zoo
Wildlife Alliance. But first this Now it's time for the
(10:35):
San Diego Zoom Minute, an opportunity for you to learn
what's new at the Zoo. Now we've been talking about
the Chinese giant salamander and spotting this critically endangered species
in its native habitat is exceedingly rare, but guests at
the San Diego Zoo now have the unique opportunity to
take a close look at a sleek and mysterious creature
(10:56):
at the newly opened Wildlife Explorers Base Camp Sandy goes To.
Wildlife Alliance and conservation partners including Ocean Park Hong Kong,
are working toward the goal of creating a breeding group
of Chinese giant salamanders. The goal is to eventually re
establish depleted populations in the Chinese giant salamanders native range,
while at the same time educating the public about the
(11:17):
conservation of its habitat in China. Did you know all
three types of giant salamander produced a sticky white skin
secretion that repels predators except humans. Wild Life Explorer's Base
(11:38):
Camp at the San Diego Zoo is one of only
six places in the US where guests can experience Chinese
giant salamanders. This large amphibian can be seen in the
Cool Critters Building and is one of many species in
the newly opened immersive environment. Brett Baldwin is the Associate
curator of Herpetology and ich Theology with the same A
(12:00):
Zoo Wildlife Alliance, and is joining the conversation as we
continue to learn about this unique amphibian, the Chinese giant salamander.
Hi Bratt, Hey, how are you great? So, as the
associate curator of Herpetology, which is the study of reptiles
and amphibians, I'm learning and in theology, which is the
(12:20):
study of fish, how would you describe your position? So
I oversee animal care and husbandry of the said departments.
I ensure that the habitats the housing they're in are
up to and beyond as a standard with the public views.
Is aesthetically pleasing, but yet also making sure that it's
(12:44):
best for the animals too, so there's two different aspects
of it. I also manage the animal moves and shipments,
which we do a lot of here and I oversee
a population management of those animals reptiles and amphibians and fish,
so the reproduction of all the animals we house and
care for at the zoo and the safari park. So
(13:04):
with the Chinese giant salamander and amphibians as a whole,
they're said to reflect the health of the environment because
they absorb the water and oxygen through their skin. What
does that mean for you? What does that take um
to care for such an animal. So what that means
is they're like the canary in the coal mind where
(13:24):
they are an indicator of what's going on around you
that you might not know because of their physiology, their skin,
how they absorb moisture through their skin, their skin is
very sensitive, so they are very sensitive to any changes
in the environment. So what are some of the major
factors contributing to the decline of the Chinese giant salamander?
(13:48):
Historically it's been human consumption. They're required from the wild
or many many many decades for food medicinal purposes. Pollution
has been a contributor and the habitat loss to building
up dams, changing waterways that has done a lot to
to reduce where they live but the main thing, even
(14:09):
recent studies has shown that that it's still people that
are collecting them from the wild, because there's a lot
of these farms that have been set up over the
last couple of decades where they farm these salamanders in
large numbers. And speaking of that, um, the diminishing wild
population led the Chinese government to encourage farming of the
(14:31):
species to satisfy the continued culinary demand for the giant salamander.
But I understand that this intended solution has actually caused
some other problems. Can you explain. Yes, So, in theory,
it sounds like, wow, that's a really good idea bringing
these animals and breathe them so that there's these big
(14:53):
populations of them. But it's likely that these places are
not doing the disease testing frequently and they may be
housed in crowded situations. Also, we know that there's three
different lineages now of these salamanders as of recent so
they could be there's a new species that they've described
(15:13):
they know it's genetically different, and then a third one also. So, um,
there's this question whether or not it's a good idea
to have these animals in these large farms and to
actually release them into the wild because again, as I
mentioned before, the amphibians are very sensitive to disease, so
in a large population, it's very easily for disease to
(15:36):
be there. And unless they're doing regular testing and there's
veterinary care going on on a regular basis and the
DNA the genetics are known, then it creates a different situation.
So some salamanders can regenerate a tell or a toe
or an entire limb if injured. Is that the case
(16:00):
with the Chinese giant salamander? It is. Indeed, there has
been a report where an animal had leg missing and
then after a year or so it had another leg
had regrown it. Yeah, so it's thought that maybe it
has something to do with the earlier stages in their
life when they're younger, that it's more likely that that
(16:22):
occurs as they get older, it may not happen. That
superpower phades a bit. So that's pretty cool and hard
to beat. But is there any other characteristics that you
find to be the most interesting about the giant salamander?
The size of it is what really gets me, because
we have our native salamanders here in southern California that
(16:42):
are three to five inches long, and they look so similar,
yet the size difference is just incredible that they're in
this very closely related How closely related they are? And
how can people better coexist with the Chinese giants element
or is there anything that that we could do better?
(17:03):
I think that it's really important that people understand how
many there used to be where they used to live,
and then how it got to the numbers that they
are now. That's the big one. Educating the younger people
that will be taking care of this situation in the
future and making sure that they understand what used to
(17:25):
be and how it got there. And what would you
say is the best part of your job? What's your
favorite part of your position? I work with such a
diverse group of animals like lizard, snakes, turtles, frogs, fish,
and that's really just a huge bonus. Every day is different.
One day I come in and there's a medical procedure
(17:47):
that's going on with the giant main Shan mountain viper
also from China that's very rare, which we may be
doing X rays on it or CT stand on this snake.
And then the next day maybe there's a bunch of
baby turtles hatching and the incubator that we've been waiting
for for three months. And then the following day we're
(18:07):
boxing up some crocodiles to chip FedEx to another zoo
across the country. So I think that because I get
to do something different every day, it's just like that
makes it exciting. Thank you to Brett Baldwin, the Associate
curator of Herpetology and Ichthyology with San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance.
(18:31):
Thanks so much, Thank you, thanks for listening. We hope
you've enjoyed learning about the Chinese giant salamander. Be sure
to subscribe and tune into next week's episode, and which
will bring you the story of an animal no one
for defying typical biological laws and has become well known
thanks to a popular online video game that involves mining
(18:52):
and crafting. I'm empty money and I'm Rich Schwartz. Thanks
for me. If you would like to find out more
about San Diego Zoo Wild Left Alliance, please visit sdz
w a dot org. Amazing Wildlife is a production of
I Heart Radio. Our producer is Nikkia Swinton and our
(19:12):
executive producer is Marcia to Peina. Our audio engineer and
editor is Sierra Spreen. For more shows from my Heart Radio,
check out the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or
wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hosts And Creators
Rick Schwartz
Marco Wendt
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.