September 12, 2025 • 31 mins
Conservation is dynamic and deeply collaborative—and it takes many people across diverse disciplines to address the challenges facing wildlife. Hosts Rick and Marco speak with Hendrik Nollens, San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance’s vice president of Wildlife Health, to learn how this team works to detect and prevent disease in wildlife and monitor their overall health. From California condors to mountain yellow-legged frogs and more, find out how the Wildlife Health team is helping increase many species’ chances of survival.
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Ruby. Hi, I'm Rick Schwartz.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
What a world, Marco Wentz and this This is Amazing Wildlife,
the podcast where we explore unique stories of wildlife from
around the world and uncover fascinating animal facts. This podcast
is in production with iHeartRadio's Ruby Studio and San Diego Zoo.
Wildlife Allions, an international nonprofit conservation organization which oversees the
San Diego Zoo and the San Diego Zoosa.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Firepark, which is kind of where we sort of are
right now. I just love the courtyard.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Yeah, yeah, right, man, It's good to be back by.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Its good to have you back.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Thank you me.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Last episode we covered California condors. I know it was
really really good, but it just lacked something and it
was lacking you, buddy.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
I appreciate that, amigo. I appreciate that. I heard it. It
sounded really really great.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
You know. I learned a little bit extra that I
didn't know about condos se which is wonderful. And actually
I spent some time in Mexico and saw that to
boot the Petsu, which was great.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
How was it? Oh, it was wonderful.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
I saw the new Oxlado Habitat theme, very impressive in spanness.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
But you know it made me be jealous, so let
us I.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
Mean the Mexican food too. I mean, you can't beat
that Mexican food out of Mexico. It's just really called food,
by the way, but it's great.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
You know, it's just food. It's just food.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Hey, we're getting distracted, but you know, what I was
thinking was all the great work that specialists do from
different species, like the Condo episode that.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
We talked about, right.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
What I really enjoyed about having that conversation is we
both win the organization for a while. We know the story,
but to really hear the numbers. You know, she was
saying that there was two hundred and fifty. I've been
hatched over that now, right. The one that was number
two to fifty is going to be released soon, and goodness,
there's over five hundred in the population, half of that
flying free in the wild.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
So the whole idea of the work that.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Was done was just the initial twenty two that were
brought in and all the efforts for making sure we're
doing right by the partnerships by reading and then reintroductions
in the wild.
Speaker 5 (01:48):
Is so cool.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Yeah, No, And I know a lot of our guests
are familiar with that project, but sometimes I think that
most of our guests don't really realize all the behind
the scenes work, the science space work that's being done
here at the Safar Park. For instance, we're at the
beautiful Beckman Center. The public's not aware. You know, it's
an eighteen hundred acre conservation park. Guests can access a
good portion of this conservation area, but this particular section
(02:09):
is super unique.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
A lot of really important work is being done right well.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
And I appreciate your bringing that up because it's what
this episode's about.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
I was just trying to give you the segue right. Well, wow,
that's not what that one.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
So our members already know because they got the Santego
Wildlife Alliance Journal in the mail. There's an article about
all the conservation work done by Wildlife Health. In other words,
sometimes when animals go out to the wild, they still
need some support from our Wildlife Health staff, or sometimes
the conservation Act itself.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Is Wildlife Health.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
So we thought it'd be fun to maybe talk to
the guy who knows a lot about this.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
I think it's a good idea.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Friend, so our guest, why don't you go ahead introduce
yourself and tell us your title.
Speaker 6 (02:46):
Yeah. Absolutely, My name is Hendrick, Hendrick Nolins, and I
am the VP of the Vice President of wilderff Health
for the San Diego Zoo wild There for Lions, So
I lead those teams.
Speaker 5 (02:54):
That you're talking about.
Speaker 6 (02:55):
And I'm really glad that you're actually telling that part
of the story too, you know, the overlooked part of
lot of times and the health support that goes into
these programs or that's needed for these programs or for
the species recovery.
Speaker 5 (03:05):
So pretty cool you're doing that.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
So the VP of Wildlife Health tells me that it's
a pretty important department that you have to have somebody
at your level overseeing all the work that's being done.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
So he's like, where do I begin to name everybody
on the team.
Speaker 6 (03:25):
Well, I don't know about important necessarily, but it's definitely
a big department and a very core department. So the
wild of filth teams consists of the animal hospital at
the zoo, the animal hospital at the park, but then
also our pathology team, disease investigations, epidemiology, toxicology, our diagnostic labs.
We have in house labs that perform diagnostic tests on
these animals that are not available elsewhere because the species
(03:47):
we take care of are not dog cats forces, right,
and then also the entire nutrition science and the food
supply chain, you know, getting all the animals.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
Fed, which makes sense part because everything everything about it,
from nutrition into disease prevention. I think you were saying
as well, right, I mean there were some issues in
the past. I remember California condor that was part.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Of the article.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
So clearly it's a very large umbrella from nutrition to disease,
to testing for things, everything else.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
But the article did mention that.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
We participated or were part of creating a bird flu
vaccine so the condors and the wild could receive an anoculation.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
What was your department's handed all.
Speaker 6 (04:24):
That, Yeah, yeah, so very close. This was really a
precedent setting project, the or initiative. It was not led
by us, but we were one of the key contributors.
And so even influenza has been circulating in North America
for the last three four years, has been causing damage
at population level and species level in South America and
elsewhere in the world, and also some years ago now
(04:44):
the California condor populations, which you mentioned earlier, is on
the track to recovery because of our and other people's efforts,
but they got hit by even influenza, and at some
point in time, over the course of a couple months,
over twenty California condors were lost to even influenza, which,
if you look at it proportionately at scale, that effectively
meant that it set the conservation breeding program back by
(05:05):
ten years, basically accomplishments ten years worth of accomplishments that
were just lost due to the virus. And so there's
no vaccine available in the United States against aven influenza
for reasons that have to do with poultry trade, international
poetry trade, multipillion dollar industry. It's a vaccine that's not legal.
They exist, these vaccines, but are not allowed in the
United States. And actually the US Fashion and Wildlife USDA
(05:28):
work together to get an exception, create permission to actually
use an experimental influence of vaccine and California condors, and
then ourselves and two other zoos were chosen to test
the safety and the efficacy of the vaccine on some
of the condors that were still in our care but
that we're in that pipeline towards release, reintroduction what.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
A great way to get involved in some so big
I mean maybe some guests aren't realized, you know, avian
influence it and quote me if I'm wrong, please correct me.
But it's been around for a while, but it's been
increasing and it's exposure in different areas.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Is that kind of a good way to think?
Speaker 5 (05:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (05:59):
Yeah, it's a virus that comes from wild birds. It's
a natural thing to occur, but this particular strain usually
and even influenza outbreak is a one winter kind of thing.
You know, it comes with the migrating birds when they
come south and fall, and then the next year it's
eradicated spontaneously. This outbreak has been around for three, four
or five years, and it's global too. It's really It
has also been introduced into dairy cows strangely, so now
(06:20):
there's a current dairy cow even influenza outbreak.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Right, and it affects all corners of the world.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
And so some of you guys maybe brought some eggs
in the past, you know, maybe one of where our
prices has been so high.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
It's an example.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
But there are certain species that you mentioned poultry, I
believe raptor species, which also includes raptor air like eagles
and hawks and falcons for our class, et cetera. But
it also included the California condra. And to me, it
makes it feel really good that we at the Safari
Park the Alliance as a whole can really help out
in this need to protect wildlife and especially avian wildlife.
Speaker 6 (06:49):
Yeah, and it was a tough project and a very
unique initiative, but our organization is so vested into recovery
of California or Corbo or when program Done comes back
and say can you help us with this was a
no brainer.
Speaker 5 (06:59):
You know.
Speaker 6 (06:59):
It's like, yeah, we're gonna put one of our veteran
aarians on it and enrolling our birds assist these other
zoos that did the same thing. And it was the
great impactful, meaningful and fulfilling initiative and effective.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
And what I appreciate what you shared was the fact
that it's not as simple as just going, oh, we
should come up with some sort of vaccine. That there's
more at play. There's government issues involved, there's other industries involved,
there's so many other things at play when it comes
to figuring this out. And I know as a dad,
I heard about AVM flu and the increase of eggs
and other groceries that have eggs, and how it was
(07:30):
affecting us there, and I think that was very much
in the populace's mindset. But to kind of step back
into wait a minute, this also set back to California
Condo project.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
By ten years.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
It really for me myself, it kind of repaints the
picture of how these different viruses and diseases affect everything,
not just the price of our groceries necessarily, or affect
our lives. And so what a great example of how
our organizations are part of these bigger projects, these bigger
pictures and being able to help solve that riddle if
you will.
Speaker 5 (08:01):
Yeah, no kidding, It is a great example.
Speaker 6 (08:02):
It's a very clear example of Chrispit's a disease threat
to an endangered species that is recovering, almost setting it
back to declining. So yeah, it's a great example of
helping clear a health hurdle in the recovery of somebody's species.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
Yeah, well, that's excellent.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Hopefully guests can read that article and learn a little
more about that California Funder initiative.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
That's really great.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Speaking of the article, another thing that's brought up was
kittrid fungus. Oh, and that's as people who work with
reptiles and amphibians, especially over the years, have really had
a hard time getting ahead of that. You can put
a population out there that you've done a breeding program
with and all of a sudden you lose an entire
area because of the kittrid fungus. And how aggressively horrible
it is for these animals. What have we done as
(08:42):
part of our initiative for Wildlife Health to try and
get ahead of that to figure that out?
Speaker 6 (08:46):
Yeah, So again as an organization as a whole, has
been very heavily invested in Mountain the ollelegged frog recovery.
It's one of the species we do on site here,
conservation breeding forward. This is not guest facing, it's not
in public facing habitats. It's all happening behind the scenes.
But the hey threat there is this fungus, right, and
so frogs get bred and released every year into three
or four different areas. But then the threat of the
(09:09):
kittrich fungus continues to exist. And so what the team
trial this past year if we could expose some of
the frogs that we have here in our care but
then also treat them. So expose them so your immune
system are primed. They've been exposed to this pathogen, right,
but then not let them become affected to the point
where they become sick or potentially die. And so they
(09:29):
were exposed and treated at the same time. And the
idea here is to give them some immunity before they
get released into the wild. And so that's an experiment
of us conducted here between our conservation biologists and at
the hospital closed supervision and management from the hospital teams.
It's a very unique study because you know, our hospitals
used to having livestock and primates and suddenly we have
(09:50):
frogs a little you know, if our.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Viewers are aware, this is our only native frog species
and those high alpine areas.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Goutitude frog right exactly. So it's pine forest areas and
cold water creeks are being released into. And so it
is such a unique species in southern California.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
One being anique species, two just being a unique habitat
I think for California, San Diego County, I should say,
but also just being on amphibian alone.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Man, you get hit with all sorts of things right
in the wild.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
I mean if something unknown, something nuance happens in an environment,
generally it's an amphibian, a salaman, or a frog that
gets hit first. You know, I was going to ask
you though maybe some guests like a little kids, especially
not familiar with caittured fungus, could you talk about that.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
A little bit to your knowledge of it?
Speaker 5 (10:32):
Good?
Speaker 6 (10:33):
Yeah, yeah, I know, I know what I'm saying here
for kittrick fundus is it's a fungus, right, It's I
think everybody probably will know what a fundus is. But
it's a specific kind of fungus that causes high rates
of disease and death in amphibians, specifically frog, and it
has been introduced spread all around the world and it's
actually been I believe, the leading cause of the client
of amphibians worldwide. If it's not the leading, it's one
(10:56):
of the leading. And so it's a universal problem for
a frog conservation, amphibian conservation, and also to your point,
our unique niche high altitude outpine in southern California to.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Get hit left and right. You know, you can ask you.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
I don't know if you can hypothesize or maybe see
in the future, but do you think this part I know,
let me bring it.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
So I'm pretending to have a.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
Crystal ball for those of you or not seeing the
YouTube episode that's going to happen out and to do
in the future what I was curious about. Do you
see this particular project is possibly being effective for other
amphibians It could be susceptible to this one.
Speaker 6 (11:29):
It could be the idea could certainly be replicated. Right,
other institutions that are involved with some of these species
that are equally under threat of the catred fungus could
do the same thing. Because we've choven you can do it,
we can do it effectively or safely.
Speaker 5 (11:41):
For the frogs. We're still waiting to see what, you know,
the efficacy.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Of Yeah, exactly right.
Speaker 6 (11:47):
We don't know yet how much protection it conveyed for
the frogs when they go out into the wild. Time
will tell soon. But if it works, for sure, I
would hope that people would replicate this approach. Even if
it doesn't prove to be effective this first go around,
I think it's worthwhile trying again in other species. Different
dose are just different protocols, longer exposures. You know, there's
so many things that you could tweak and adjust to
(12:09):
we could not try right or give it a yeah that.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
We've kind of talked about that before and heard about
it from other people in conservation that sometimes your first
try on something you don't necessarily get your results, but
you learn.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Something you're going to apply to your next try.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yes, And that's what I love about this concept is that, yeah,
we don't know for sure if it will be effective, but
it's worth finding out and then making adjustments to see
what we can do to make more effective.
Speaker 6 (12:34):
And you know, it's an innovative thought, it's an out
of the box thought. It's something we have not done before.
It's not just tweaking and adjusting a little bit. It's
actually a completely different approach to how we go about this.
So yeah, we certainly should embrace those sort of thoughts.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
I love it. It's encouraging.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
It's exciting too, sort of like all the unknown that
you guys have to sort of address out here in Beckman,
it's really inspiring.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
How to say to see the good workie doing.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
It's a kudos on that Frog project, sending you good
frog vibes or for hopefully you.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Can get out there.
Speaker 5 (12:58):
Thank you. I feel them.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
But yo, man, I'm thinking now you guys like the
variability of already what we talked about, right, and we
were talking California condor, the largest flying bird in North America,
to the cutest little frog. If you guys haven't seen it,
check out our website and check out Mountain Yell legged frog.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
There's other species. Even what Idea say, Even the.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Article mentions something about the right and some work we're
doing with them. I think it was something I'm about
doing fecal studies on the understand. So when it comes
to wildlife health, yeah, what comes out the other end
is important to know. You know, we're both former zoo keepers.
We understand that it's important to know what's going on
there from.
Speaker 5 (13:32):
More than something you have to clean up.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
There's a cute book that we sell, by the way,
I think it's called.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
What is it that your team is specifically looking at
or trying to learn from that from the specific bucket mounts.
Speaker 6 (13:46):
So in general, actually feces or you know, pooper, what
you want, whatever you want to call it, is actually
a very interesting biological sample for us to sample and
study because it's a biological sample you.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
Can most easily get from a wild animal.
Speaker 6 (14:02):
So there's actually a lot that we do in our
hospitals and here in our research labs with fecal samples
because it's something you can get non invasively after the
animals left or right right, So we try to maximize
as much we can learn from a fecal sample. Now,
in this specific case, I think what you're referencing is
that there is a guess it should step back a
little bit, similar to the frogs, similar to the condors,
similar to burring owles, and a number of other species.
(14:25):
We have a population of Pacific pocket mice here on
grounds at the Safari Park. Again, this is not guest facing.
We may have a specific parket miuse on display somewhere.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
I don't think I was going to reference during the
frogs sagent that there are particular tours. So if our
guests visit our website at Sez Safari Park dot org,
you click to tours and there's a lot of different
safaris and one or two affrontments. They can include a
tour through Beckmann and also Harder, which I highly recommend,
especially this year we're celebrating the fiftieth anniversary of the Frozen.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah, check out the website and you can learn a
lot more. Okay, that was my place.
Speaker 6 (14:57):
Next year is the twenty fifth anniversary of our heart.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
Twenty fifth adversary, right hard or wonderful hospital here for
guests listening, So yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Check it out.
Speaker 5 (15:06):
Yeah, anyway, we've got sidetracked.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
But though a Pacific pocket mouse because they're way out there. Yeah,
so there is a part of our park, our bird
conservation center, our cheetah Conservation Center, and also a center
for our Pacific pocket mouse is out there as well.
Speaker 6 (15:21):
Correct, correct, And so this population of mice is here
as a source population for reintroducing Pacific pocket mice into
their original habitat, right, and so either establishing new populations
or for amplifying the existing breathing that's happening out there.
These mice, like probably most other wild animals, do have
nematose parasites worms, and they're intestinal tract and we have
(15:44):
some people might be surprised to know that every animal
that passes away at the zoo park ground gets a
full post mortem by a border patologist in a full.
Speaker 5 (15:51):
Ride up and whatnot.
Speaker 6 (15:52):
And so with that we've learned that sometimes not all
the time, but these parasites, these worms can be harmful.
They can lead to poor body condition for survival. Just
sort of general weakening doesn't often cause a direct disease.
It's sort of a lot of it's an extra burden.
And so for these tiny little mice that were what
you know, thirty grams and.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
The pilots a.
Speaker 6 (16:16):
Couple of right, yeah, you know, it can be difficult
to do parasite monitoring the faces. So the team here
has done a great job and I'm sure it's put
a lot of smiles on a lot of people's faces.
The fcocile was so small that we actually have.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
To pull them.
Speaker 6 (16:29):
We have to grab a whole bunch of specific pocket
mouse feces actually, and then and then you sort of
triash back to if you triosh back to you know
which mouse it came from, and then treat that individual.
But the point is that those mice that have a
parasite burden that is either too large or a burden
that they aren't handling well, it can be taxing on
(16:50):
them and to make them less ideal release candidates.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
Is this something that they would normally be exposed to
in the wild, and maybe it's a little more extreme.
Speaker 6 (16:58):
Yeah, parasites are I think there are very few wild
animals that don't have parasites.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Yeah, my brain went in, like thick billed parrots an example.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
But what I understand of it is there getting expose
a little more obstacles in nature than what normally they'd
be interacting with. And some of it has to do
with climate change and higher temperature. So my brain start
be going like, is this something that could be attributed
to that?
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Possibly?
Speaker 6 (17:18):
Right, we know parasitic diseases, parasitic infections are a lot
of times there are still drivers off population trends, and
you know, the parasites can really take down whole populations
of animals. And the thick biled parrots a great example.
It's not an intestinal parasite, but you get acto parasites. Yes,
so lice and fleas and like external you're saying exactly, yeah,
living on the skin and then the feathers that might
live on the feathers. And but again they can be
(17:40):
they're normal. You know, they are parasites that are from
thick billed parasites and for thick parasites, but sometimes when the.
Speaker 5 (17:47):
Conditions change, balance is upset.
Speaker 6 (17:49):
The balance is upset, and you get too many of
those parasites, and it can be taxing again on the
system and effect survival, especially of young animals you know
that are already a rough time and leaving the true
for humans.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
Right, it's fun, but it's also a rough time, right yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
And that population is so small, right, I mean, you
guys know, but there are guests.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
I mean, what their normal range was, let's say Los
Angeles County all the way down to bajac ALIFTI if
I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Originally ridge and now little slivers.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
Yeah, and this postal species, so guests aren't aware that
they really thrive in those areas that we like to
put our houses on the beach, you.
Speaker 5 (18:20):
Know, so they're active.
Speaker 6 (18:20):
Parasites like that are also challenge actually for the burying
owls that we are working here totally in our county,
the AGA recovery program and on the Mariana Islands that
we work on are involved in again chick fledgling survival,
that age where they have to leave the nest and
go find their own way. If there are too many parasites,
we know that it affects survival.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Right yeah, Because it's challenging enough to hunt when you're
a new kid.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Figure things out and if you're doing.
Speaker 6 (18:44):
Imagine doing that when you have a poor code. And yeah, right.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
I was gonna make it talk about middle school. We
all know how rough that was. You know, now that's
a parasites and the next man. I don't know if
I could have survived that.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Some people I went to middle school with would.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
I'm just saying, that's an after hours episode.
Speaker 5 (18:58):
We'll talk about it as a family.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
We will be surprised. Where's where we go here?
Speaker 4 (19:03):
But when you were talking, friend, I was thinking, you know,
all the other nuances and obstacles and things we have
to think about when it sounds I'm sure beautiful and
simple when we say like, yes we've raised a California
condor and their human care. Yes, we were releasing him
out in the beautiful valleys of say and so now
that as an example, or the Grand Canyon, But that's
not where the story ends. There's so much more that
we have to invest in these animals. It's a long game, right,
(19:26):
but it's definitely worth it.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
It is a long game. It's worth it. It's important.
Speaker 6 (19:29):
It's exploring understanding the role of health and recovery or
lack of recovery, is tremendously. More and more people are
recognizing how important it is, and in some ways the
fact that we've been able to talk about is a
luxury problem because at least we know what the problem is.
There's a lot of species populations parts of the world
where there are no wildlife diagnostics available. In fact, you
know a little tidbit that you know. I don't know
if I'm going on too far of.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Time here, but spill the tea, spell the tea.
Speaker 6 (19:53):
The veterinarians of the California Department Fesshion of Wildlife actually
for the past year now is actually using our our
veterinary team, our diagnostics labs, our patology team to get
diagnostic support for the free ranging wildlife in California because
it makes it's not else available and they know that
we have this expertise here from working with the species
and we've made it available to them, and so we
(20:14):
are now working with them on man.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Alliance.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Because it goes into that we had that catchphrase we're
all life thrives, but it's not just a catch phrase.
When we're opening our doors for other agencies who don't
have access to those tools, try and say hey, come
and do this. We gain knowledge from it, sure, but
it also helps the species we're all trying to protect.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
I love the main thing, like doctor Berniska, right, I
mean not having access to wildlife. But you know we
have this beautiful Safari parking be able to create that
wonderful program for a frozen zoo.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
This is what zeus can do, right, So that's amazing.
Speaker 5 (20:45):
Had another layer to it.
Speaker 6 (20:46):
So we've been talking about the things that we know,
our problems and what we're doing about it. And then
so we've talked about the California Departments Fish and Wildlife
knowing that they had a problem, not having the tools
to anything about it. A whole other level again is
what our organization. And then specifically about the health team
is in Northern Kenya, the Kenya Wildlife Service veterinarians sort
of the veterinarians that are responsible for all the wildlife
and in Kenya inside and outside national parks, had no
(21:10):
infectious disease diagnostics available to them at all. Right, So
we are actually, maybe it's a different podcast, we are
just about we are just about you know, drum rolls.
We have built and are equipping a wildlife diagnostic lab
in northern Kenya.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
That's awesome.
Speaker 6 (21:23):
And the customers for that lab is entirely intended to
be the Kenya Wildlife Service and the other Kenyan entities
that aren't managing wildlife and wile of conservation. So it's
a whole other level. They know that there are questions,
but they don't even know what the questions are.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
Resource.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Yeah, that's so amazing.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
All that's connected to the community, see right, I mean
we're talking about the wild that it's going to be
positively impacted by this, but also think of all the
human communities that are going to benefit for these studies
that are being done.
Speaker 6 (21:48):
Especially in a place like Kenya, where you know, here
we think of there's a space where the lion lives,
and there's a space where we walk and there's.
Speaker 5 (21:54):
Space lives Not true, Not true in that part of
the world.
Speaker 6 (21:57):
Right, So there's really an overlap between diseases of wildlife
and of livestock, and so knowing what is in the livestock, knowing.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
What is in washing because walking the same area.
Speaker 5 (22:06):
Eating the same grass, drinking the same water, sniffing the
same poop.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yeah, I was gonna say, rubbing in if they need
to mammals discussing creatures, making it the bird guy, am.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
Stop friends here, competition, reptiles, amphibians, all at not just
on camera. Everyone to see that these guys are shaking
their head. That's really really great work. Actually another question
for you too. You know, if the younger people that
are listening in this audience right now, like, what would
you be recommendation for if they're interested in this kind
(22:39):
of work that you're doing here, like in the Alliance,
any like words of wisdom like look into this or
to that.
Speaker 6 (22:44):
That's a whole nother podcast, right if anything. I know
when I started realizing this was even their possibility as
a profession to work with wildlife or zoo animals as
a veterinarian. But when you start saying that out loud,
people are like, you know, just this is never going
to happen, right, what chances you know? And little boy
from Belgium and they end up, I said, a veterinarian,
(23:05):
it's San Diegouz a wall the flyings.
Speaker 5 (23:06):
So it is possible.
Speaker 6 (23:07):
And so my point is those jobs and those opportunities
are out there.
Speaker 5 (23:11):
Somebody's going to get him. It might as well be you.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Oh, go after it.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
So you're in a very unique position with what you
do in a unique organization that does incredible global work.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
What's your backstory? Film mind me asking. We always kind
of like to ask.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Our guests like how did you get to where you
are and doing this? Because again, your story might be
something that someone who's listening, another person from Belgium maybe.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Could be like, oh, I could do that. What's your backstory?
How did you get here?
Speaker 6 (23:34):
Gosh, you know, it's a very interesting story, not for
a podcast, but my track. Well, at some point when
I was in my teens, I always thought I wanted
to be a veterinarian. And then I actually read a
book reader his Digest, that was his story about a
girl in Canada I who rescued a harvesteal pup, which
is by the way, completely illegal.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
She took it home and.
Speaker 6 (23:54):
Yeah, I didn't know that she did, and the last
parag quess and so she went on to college and
studied marine biology and she's now a marine biologist. But
here I was like, oh my gosh, you can do this.
I don't want to be a veterinarian. I want to
be a marine biologist. And so I've actually gone back
and forth, ended up going to VET school, but then
after FAT school, did some clinical training after that, but
actually moved to New Zealand to do a master's in
(24:16):
marine biology, and then I.
Speaker 5 (24:17):
Came to the US to do a PhD.
Speaker 6 (24:19):
And they end up working as a veterinarian, and then
I ended up overseeing a lab. And you know, here
I am now to say, the zoo wild flings with
a fantastic health team and really fortunate. I consider myself
sort of the captain of the Olympic team of zoo
and wildft health.
Speaker 5 (24:34):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Oh, that's great, friend.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Was there anything that we didn't ask that you think
our audience should know about wildlife health and what you
do in your team?
Speaker 5 (24:43):
No, no, I'm not surprised you brought up pooped in
the interview. Everybody a veterinaria, you learn a.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Lot from it.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
Also used to like scooping up some castwary people matter,
and that's pretty easy.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
But envision like the Pacific pocket.
Speaker 6 (24:55):
Now yeah, magnifying, Yeah, looking for it of the fair
sight egg, Yeah exactly.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
But even like I was having lunch here and just
seeing all the different teams from our playing teams, specific
pocket mouths, the frog team, recruised by earlier team, But
I just love the passion for everyone. They're all I
miss those jokes and nego glad to be back now.
But it makes me feel really proud to be part
of a team like this or everyone has their passions
and their skill sets and apply them really effectively to
(25:23):
So kudas to you guys, and you and the teams
for all the work that you guys do.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
Yeah, no, thank you for telling the story.
Speaker 6 (25:28):
You know, we are one of those departments that were
most of our responsibilities are at the zoo and park,
but our work helps make all this conservation work possible exactly,
just like all these other people here who volunteer or
work at San Diego Zuada Alliance. And then so it's
not just our conservation science teams, our field teams who
get to do this work and make it possible. Everybody
makes it possible and we while they're health we are
(25:48):
very fortunate that we get to straddle those worlds. You know,
we get to have the best of the work here
at home and then we get to still be impactful
contributors to the field programs.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
That's so cool.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
I love it. I do have one more question.
Speaker 5 (26:01):
I know, that's all those two questions.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
That was supposed to be the final one. But yeah,
one more question.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
That's the way I was saying.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
We're still talking in your experience with the Alliance, was
there a particular project that really stood out for you then?
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Like, you know, I'm just kind of curious.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
Thank you, thanks man, you know, because we've talked a
lot of different species, but I've read into your background.
You're definitely a marine animal kind of guy, right, but
I'm curious here in the Alliance, like, what's the one
that's kind of getting you vibe in right now?
Speaker 1 (26:24):
It's getting percolating.
Speaker 6 (26:25):
Yeah, Well, obviously I'll look at this from a health perspective.
You know, when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nails.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
I get that.
Speaker 6 (26:33):
Yeah, and so I'm obviously sort of focused on the
initiatives that have a health component. I'm very excited about
the work we do in Kenya right now. Opening this
lab is maybe just a stepping stone that will make
all these other things possible. So that's very exciting. We're
going to meet with our health partners in Kenya in
two months and just a few weeks ago and we
were starting to talk about this next phase. We no
longer have to talk about the lab and the equipment
(26:55):
and the askephase. We can talk about what are the neats,
what's going wrong, where do you suspect it health issue
and with wildlife, and where do you expect that a
pathogen is hindering recovery or causing decline. So that is
a very exciting initiative. Personally, I'm also very proud and
excited about the partnership with California Department Fishing and Wildlife.
We'll be able to give back to our wildlife right
(27:17):
here in our beautiful not just Southern California and California statewide.
I think is one that makes me smile. So yeah, Kenya,
Fish and Wildlife, California. There's more. Trying really hard not
to mention any marine projects.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
You can of meg, it's fine, all creatures great and small,
feathered or not feather, It's perfectly okay. No, but that's
really great, especially from Kenya to San Diego. It just
shows how unlimited the possibilities are for the kind of
effective work that we can do, and hopefully that really
gets guests excited to come back to the zoo, come
back to the Safaria Park, after hearing this particular podcast
episode and really try to understand some of the nuanced
(27:52):
work that we're doing here. And don't forget those tours,
guys are highly recommended, hard and are amazing.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
It's also real quick, just really important for our members
to hear this from you. Yeah, because a lot of
times I think members know they're supporting wild life, supporting conservation,
but to hear these actual stories and to know that, Wow,
being a member is not only allowing me to come
and go from the Zoom Park however I want you
get through school, journal whatever. Yeah, but it's actually helping
us do things like that project you mentioned in Kenya,
which you know that's a lot of money and it's
(28:20):
not coming from nowhere. Our members are a big part
of making that happen.
Speaker 5 (28:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (28:22):
Absolutely, And if people do come to the zoo and park,
well not if when and if they do visit to
one of these behind the scenes area. If you get
a chance to stop by one of the hospitals, please
do because it'll be very telling. It'll be very compelling.
The quality of care and the dedication and the commitment
to caring for the animals that is just so obvious
when you walk into these facilities.
Speaker 5 (28:42):
Is I wish we could share with everybody.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Yeah, it's an impressive hospital. It's amazing.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
We're so involved in our zoo world.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
Like when I go outside of the zoo world and
I want to talk about something like a giant handa
or a condor, that the kind of.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Look at me kind of oddly. Yeah. I really love
being around the zoo community. So I appreciate this. I
mean this, I learned a lot. So thank you so
much for Yeah, thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
We spend us some time with I know you're busy
and you're gonna be traveling soon, so I really appreciate
you sitting down with us and letting us pick your
brain on these stories.
Speaker 5 (29:06):
Enjoyed it. Let's do it again.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
I want to hear the after story.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Yeah right, wow, that was really great.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Right, that was amazing.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
I mean, honestly, the journal is great, but being able
to talk to him adding so much more to those
stories it's in the journal about what we're doing. It's
just so cool. And it again goes back to what
we mentioned in the interview. It's like, wow, it really
makes you very proud to be a part of this
organization and really do, not just spending a day at
the park of the zoo, but then that work that
we're collaborating with fish and game, we're collaborating with Kenya
(29:37):
and all these other things just so amazing.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
I know, and it makes me think of the possibilities.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
I mean, we talked about, for instance, Frozen Zoo, what
we've done over fifty years ago. So my brain starts going,
what's going to happen fifty.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Years Yeah, one hundred years from now, you know.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
So I think it makes you so excited to be
here and be part of the alliance and hopefully a guest.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Can one become a member?
Speaker 4 (29:53):
Read the journal, learn more about these projects, do the tours.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
They're pretty great, you know.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
I learned about all the nuance of wildlife from the
tiniest little Pacific pocket mouse of this giant condor you
So that's really great. You know, as I'm talking, I
think I have an idea, but I already forgot Italy,
what's the next episode of Fred?
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Because I want to.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
Say maybe a little bird brain, but I want we're
going to.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Be staying at the Safari Park, and we are, we are.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
And maybe we're going to celebrating a very special day
close to possibly Yeah, I think.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
There's a day near the end of September with a
bird in balls.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
Giant dinosaur looking bird right fruit, You guys figure it out,
but I am super super punned. I'm gonna try really
hard not do that bird. I know the sound right now,
but I'm super excited. Hopefully you got some stick around
and learn all about the magnificent Southern Cat.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yes already, Mark and I Rick Schwartz, thanks for listening
and for watching. For more information about the San Diego
Zoo and San Diego Zoo Safari Park, go to SDZWA
dot org. Amazing Wildlife is a production of iHeartRadio. Our
(31:08):
supervising producers are Nikia Swinton and Dylan Fagan, and our
sound designers are Sierra Spreen and Matt Russell. For more
shows from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Ruby. Hi, I'm Rick Schwartz.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
What a world, Marco Wentz and this This is Amazing Wildlife,
the podcast where we explore unique stories of wildlife from
around the world and uncover fascinating animal facts. This podcast
is in production with iHeartRadio's Ruby Studio and San Diego Zoo.
Wildlife Allions, an international nonprofit conservation organization which oversees the
San Diego Zoo and the San Diego Zoosa.
Speaker 3 (00:31):
Firepark, which is kind of where we sort of are
right now. I just love the courtyard.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Yeah, yeah, right, man, It's good to be back by.
Speaker 3 (00:37):
Its good to have you back.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
Thank you me.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Last episode we covered California condors. I know it was
really really good, but it just lacked something and it
was lacking you, buddy.
Speaker 1 (00:45):
I appreciate that, amigo. I appreciate that. I heard it. It
sounded really really great.
Speaker 4 (00:49):
You know. I learned a little bit extra that I
didn't know about condos se which is wonderful. And actually
I spent some time in Mexico and saw that to
boot the Petsu, which was great.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
How was it? Oh, it was wonderful.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
I saw the new Oxlado Habitat theme, very impressive in spanness.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
But you know it made me be jealous, so let
us I.
Speaker 4 (01:05):
Mean the Mexican food too. I mean, you can't beat
that Mexican food out of Mexico. It's just really called food,
by the way, but it's great.
Speaker 1 (01:11):
You know, it's just food. It's just food.
Speaker 4 (01:13):
Hey, we're getting distracted, but you know, what I was
thinking was all the great work that specialists do from
different species, like the Condo episode that.
Speaker 1 (01:19):
We talked about, right.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
What I really enjoyed about having that conversation is we
both win the organization for a while. We know the story,
but to really hear the numbers. You know, she was
saying that there was two hundred and fifty. I've been
hatched over that now, right. The one that was number
two to fifty is going to be released soon, and goodness,
there's over five hundred in the population, half of that
flying free in the wild.
Speaker 1 (01:38):
Yep.
Speaker 3 (01:38):
So the whole idea of the work that.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Was done was just the initial twenty two that were
brought in and all the efforts for making sure we're
doing right by the partnerships by reading and then reintroductions
in the wild.
Speaker 5 (01:48):
Is so cool.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
Yeah, No, And I know a lot of our guests
are familiar with that project, but sometimes I think that
most of our guests don't really realize all the behind
the scenes work, the science space work that's being done
here at the Safar Park. For instance, we're at the
beautiful Beckman Center. The public's not aware. You know, it's
an eighteen hundred acre conservation park. Guests can access a
good portion of this conservation area, but this particular section
(02:09):
is super unique.
Speaker 1 (02:10):
A lot of really important work is being done right well.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
And I appreciate your bringing that up because it's what
this episode's about.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
I was just trying to give you the segue right. Well, wow,
that's not what that one.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
So our members already know because they got the Santego
Wildlife Alliance Journal in the mail. There's an article about
all the conservation work done by Wildlife Health. In other words,
sometimes when animals go out to the wild, they still
need some support from our Wildlife Health staff, or sometimes
the conservation Act itself.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Is Wildlife Health.
Speaker 2 (02:39):
So we thought it'd be fun to maybe talk to
the guy who knows a lot about this.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
I think it's a good idea.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Friend, so our guest, why don't you go ahead introduce
yourself and tell us your title.
Speaker 6 (02:46):
Yeah. Absolutely, My name is Hendrick, Hendrick Nolins, and I
am the VP of the Vice President of wilderff Health
for the San Diego Zoo wild There for Lions, So
I lead those teams.
Speaker 5 (02:54):
That you're talking about.
Speaker 6 (02:55):
And I'm really glad that you're actually telling that part
of the story too, you know, the overlooked part of
lot of times and the health support that goes into
these programs or that's needed for these programs or for
the species recovery.
Speaker 5 (03:05):
So pretty cool you're doing that.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
So the VP of Wildlife Health tells me that it's
a pretty important department that you have to have somebody
at your level overseeing all the work that's being done.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
So he's like, where do I begin to name everybody
on the team.
Speaker 6 (03:25):
Well, I don't know about important necessarily, but it's definitely
a big department and a very core department. So the
wild of filth teams consists of the animal hospital at
the zoo, the animal hospital at the park, but then
also our pathology team, disease investigations, epidemiology, toxicology, our diagnostic labs.
We have in house labs that perform diagnostic tests on
these animals that are not available elsewhere because the species
(03:47):
we take care of are not dog cats forces, right,
and then also the entire nutrition science and the food
supply chain, you know, getting all the animals.
Speaker 4 (03:54):
Fed, which makes sense part because everything everything about it,
from nutrition into disease prevention. I think you were saying
as well, right, I mean there were some issues in
the past. I remember California condor that was part.
Speaker 1 (04:04):
Of the article.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
So clearly it's a very large umbrella from nutrition to disease,
to testing for things, everything else.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
But the article did mention that.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
We participated or were part of creating a bird flu
vaccine so the condors and the wild could receive an anoculation.
Speaker 1 (04:21):
What was your department's handed all.
Speaker 6 (04:24):
That, Yeah, yeah, so very close. This was really a
precedent setting project, the or initiative. It was not led
by us, but we were one of the key contributors.
And so even influenza has been circulating in North America
for the last three four years, has been causing damage
at population level and species level in South America and
elsewhere in the world, and also some years ago now
(04:44):
the California condor populations, which you mentioned earlier, is on
the track to recovery because of our and other people's efforts,
but they got hit by even influenza, and at some
point in time, over the course of a couple months,
over twenty California condors were lost to even influenza, which,
if you look at it proportionately at scale, that effectively
meant that it set the conservation breeding program back by
(05:05):
ten years, basically accomplishments ten years worth of accomplishments that
were just lost due to the virus. And so there's
no vaccine available in the United States against aven influenza
for reasons that have to do with poultry trade, international
poetry trade, multipillion dollar industry. It's a vaccine that's not legal.
They exist, these vaccines, but are not allowed in the
United States. And actually the US Fashion and Wildlife USDA
(05:28):
work together to get an exception, create permission to actually
use an experimental influence of vaccine and California condors, and
then ourselves and two other zoos were chosen to test
the safety and the efficacy of the vaccine on some
of the condors that were still in our care but
that we're in that pipeline towards release, reintroduction what.
Speaker 4 (05:47):
A great way to get involved in some so big
I mean maybe some guests aren't realized, you know, avian
influence it and quote me if I'm wrong, please correct me.
But it's been around for a while, but it's been
increasing and it's exposure in different areas.
Speaker 1 (05:57):
Is that kind of a good way to think?
Speaker 5 (05:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (05:59):
Yeah, it's a virus that comes from wild birds. It's
a natural thing to occur, but this particular strain usually
and even influenza outbreak is a one winter kind of thing.
You know, it comes with the migrating birds when they
come south and fall, and then the next year it's
eradicated spontaneously. This outbreak has been around for three, four
or five years, and it's global too. It's really It
has also been introduced into dairy cows strangely, so now
(06:20):
there's a current dairy cow even influenza outbreak.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Right, and it affects all corners of the world.
Speaker 4 (06:26):
And so some of you guys maybe brought some eggs
in the past, you know, maybe one of where our
prices has been so high.
Speaker 1 (06:30):
It's an example.
Speaker 4 (06:30):
But there are certain species that you mentioned poultry, I
believe raptor species, which also includes raptor air like eagles
and hawks and falcons for our class, et cetera. But
it also included the California condra. And to me, it
makes it feel really good that we at the Safari
Park the Alliance as a whole can really help out
in this need to protect wildlife and especially avian wildlife.
Speaker 6 (06:49):
Yeah, and it was a tough project and a very
unique initiative, but our organization is so vested into recovery
of California or Corbo or when program Done comes back
and say can you help us with this was a
no brainer.
Speaker 5 (06:59):
You know.
Speaker 6 (06:59):
It's like, yeah, we're gonna put one of our veteran
aarians on it and enrolling our birds assist these other
zoos that did the same thing. And it was the
great impactful, meaningful and fulfilling initiative and effective.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
And what I appreciate what you shared was the fact
that it's not as simple as just going, oh, we
should come up with some sort of vaccine. That there's
more at play. There's government issues involved, there's other industries involved,
there's so many other things at play when it comes
to figuring this out. And I know as a dad,
I heard about AVM flu and the increase of eggs
and other groceries that have eggs, and how it was
(07:30):
affecting us there, and I think that was very much
in the populace's mindset. But to kind of step back
into wait a minute, this also set back to California
Condo project.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
By ten years.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
It really for me myself, it kind of repaints the
picture of how these different viruses and diseases affect everything,
not just the price of our groceries necessarily, or affect
our lives. And so what a great example of how
our organizations are part of these bigger projects, these bigger
pictures and being able to help solve that riddle if
you will.
Speaker 5 (08:01):
Yeah, no kidding, It is a great example.
Speaker 6 (08:02):
It's a very clear example of Chrispit's a disease threat
to an endangered species that is recovering, almost setting it
back to declining. So yeah, it's a great example of
helping clear a health hurdle in the recovery of somebody's species.
Speaker 5 (08:15):
Yeah, well, that's excellent.
Speaker 4 (08:15):
Hopefully guests can read that article and learn a little
more about that California Funder initiative.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
That's really great.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
Speaking of the article, another thing that's brought up was
kittrid fungus. Oh, and that's as people who work with
reptiles and amphibians, especially over the years, have really had
a hard time getting ahead of that. You can put
a population out there that you've done a breeding program
with and all of a sudden you lose an entire
area because of the kittrid fungus. And how aggressively horrible
it is for these animals. What have we done as
(08:42):
part of our initiative for Wildlife Health to try and
get ahead of that to figure that out?
Speaker 6 (08:46):
Yeah, So again as an organization as a whole, has
been very heavily invested in Mountain the ollelegged frog recovery.
It's one of the species we do on site here,
conservation breeding forward. This is not guest facing, it's not
in public facing habitats. It's all happening behind the scenes.
But the hey threat there is this fungus, right, and
so frogs get bred and released every year into three
or four different areas. But then the threat of the
(09:09):
kittrich fungus continues to exist. And so what the team
trial this past year if we could expose some of
the frogs that we have here in our care but
then also treat them. So expose them so your immune
system are primed. They've been exposed to this pathogen, right,
but then not let them become affected to the point
where they become sick or potentially die. And so they
(09:29):
were exposed and treated at the same time. And the
idea here is to give them some immunity before they
get released into the wild. And so that's an experiment
of us conducted here between our conservation biologists and at
the hospital closed supervision and management from the hospital teams.
It's a very unique study because you know, our hospitals
used to having livestock and primates and suddenly we have
(09:50):
frogs a little you know, if our.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
Viewers are aware, this is our only native frog species
and those high alpine areas.
Speaker 2 (10:00):
Goutitude frog right exactly. So it's pine forest areas and
cold water creeks are being released into. And so it
is such a unique species in southern California.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
One being anique species, two just being a unique habitat
I think for California, San Diego County, I should say,
but also just being on amphibian alone.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Man, you get hit with all sorts of things right
in the wild.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
I mean if something unknown, something nuance happens in an environment,
generally it's an amphibian, a salaman, or a frog that
gets hit first. You know, I was going to ask
you though maybe some guests like a little kids, especially
not familiar with caittured fungus, could you talk about that.
Speaker 1 (10:31):
A little bit to your knowledge of it?
Speaker 5 (10:32):
Good?
Speaker 6 (10:33):
Yeah, yeah, I know, I know what I'm saying here
for kittrick fundus is it's a fungus, right, It's I
think everybody probably will know what a fundus is. But
it's a specific kind of fungus that causes high rates
of disease and death in amphibians, specifically frog, and it
has been introduced spread all around the world and it's
actually been I believe, the leading cause of the client
of amphibians worldwide. If it's not the leading, it's one
(10:56):
of the leading. And so it's a universal problem for
a frog conservation, amphibian conservation, and also to your point,
our unique niche high altitude outpine in southern California to.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Get hit left and right. You know, you can ask you.
Speaker 4 (11:08):
I don't know if you can hypothesize or maybe see
in the future, but do you think this part I know,
let me bring it.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
So I'm pretending to have a.
Speaker 4 (11:18):
Crystal ball for those of you or not seeing the
YouTube episode that's going to happen out and to do
in the future what I was curious about. Do you
see this particular project is possibly being effective for other
amphibians It could be susceptible to this one.
Speaker 6 (11:29):
It could be the idea could certainly be replicated. Right,
other institutions that are involved with some of these species
that are equally under threat of the catred fungus could
do the same thing. Because we've choven you can do it,
we can do it effectively or safely.
Speaker 5 (11:41):
For the frogs. We're still waiting to see what, you know,
the efficacy.
Speaker 3 (11:45):
Of Yeah, exactly right.
Speaker 6 (11:47):
We don't know yet how much protection it conveyed for
the frogs when they go out into the wild. Time
will tell soon. But if it works, for sure, I
would hope that people would replicate this approach. Even if
it doesn't prove to be effective this first go around,
I think it's worthwhile trying again in other species. Different
dose are just different protocols, longer exposures. You know, there's
so many things that you could tweak and adjust to
(12:09):
we could not try right or give it a yeah that.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
We've kind of talked about that before and heard about
it from other people in conservation that sometimes your first
try on something you don't necessarily get your results, but
you learn.
Speaker 3 (12:23):
Something you're going to apply to your next try.
Speaker 2 (12:25):
Yes, And that's what I love about this concept is that, yeah,
we don't know for sure if it will be effective, but
it's worth finding out and then making adjustments to see
what we can do to make more effective.
Speaker 6 (12:34):
And you know, it's an innovative thought, it's an out
of the box thought. It's something we have not done before.
It's not just tweaking and adjusting a little bit. It's
actually a completely different approach to how we go about this.
So yeah, we certainly should embrace those sort of thoughts.
Speaker 1 (12:45):
I love it. It's encouraging.
Speaker 4 (12:46):
It's exciting too, sort of like all the unknown that
you guys have to sort of address out here in Beckman,
it's really inspiring.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
How to say to see the good workie doing.
Speaker 4 (12:53):
It's a kudos on that Frog project, sending you good
frog vibes or for hopefully you.
Speaker 1 (12:57):
Can get out there.
Speaker 5 (12:58):
Thank you. I feel them.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
But yo, man, I'm thinking now you guys like the
variability of already what we talked about, right, and we
were talking California condor, the largest flying bird in North America,
to the cutest little frog. If you guys haven't seen it,
check out our website and check out Mountain Yell legged frog.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
There's other species. Even what Idea say, Even the.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
Article mentions something about the right and some work we're
doing with them. I think it was something I'm about
doing fecal studies on the understand. So when it comes
to wildlife health, yeah, what comes out the other end
is important to know. You know, we're both former zoo keepers.
We understand that it's important to know what's going on
there from.
Speaker 5 (13:32):
More than something you have to clean up.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
There's a cute book that we sell, by the way,
I think it's called.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
What is it that your team is specifically looking at
or trying to learn from that from the specific bucket mounts.
Speaker 6 (13:46):
So in general, actually feces or you know, pooper, what
you want, whatever you want to call it, is actually
a very interesting biological sample for us to sample and
study because it's a biological sample you.
Speaker 5 (14:00):
Can most easily get from a wild animal.
Speaker 6 (14:02):
So there's actually a lot that we do in our
hospitals and here in our research labs with fecal samples
because it's something you can get non invasively after the
animals left or right right, So we try to maximize
as much we can learn from a fecal sample. Now,
in this specific case, I think what you're referencing is
that there is a guess it should step back a
little bit, similar to the frogs, similar to the condors,
similar to burring owles, and a number of other species.
(14:25):
We have a population of Pacific pocket mice here on
grounds at the Safari Park. Again, this is not guest facing.
We may have a specific parket miuse on display somewhere.
Speaker 4 (14:33):
I don't think I was going to reference during the
frogs sagent that there are particular tours. So if our
guests visit our website at Sez Safari Park dot org,
you click to tours and there's a lot of different
safaris and one or two affrontments. They can include a
tour through Beckmann and also Harder, which I highly recommend,
especially this year we're celebrating the fiftieth anniversary of the Frozen.
Speaker 1 (14:53):
Yeah, check out the website and you can learn a
lot more. Okay, that was my place.
Speaker 6 (14:57):
Next year is the twenty fifth anniversary of our heart.
Speaker 4 (15:01):
Twenty fifth adversary, right hard or wonderful hospital here for
guests listening, So yeah.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Check it out.
Speaker 5 (15:06):
Yeah, anyway, we've got sidetracked.
Speaker 4 (15:08):
But though a Pacific pocket mouse because they're way out there. Yeah,
so there is a part of our park, our bird
conservation center, our cheetah Conservation Center, and also a center
for our Pacific pocket mouse is out there as well.
Speaker 6 (15:21):
Correct, correct, And so this population of mice is here
as a source population for reintroducing Pacific pocket mice into
their original habitat, right, and so either establishing new populations
or for amplifying the existing breathing that's happening out there.
These mice, like probably most other wild animals, do have
nematose parasites worms, and they're intestinal tract and we have
(15:44):
some people might be surprised to know that every animal
that passes away at the zoo park ground gets a
full post mortem by a border patologist in a full.
Speaker 5 (15:51):
Ride up and whatnot.
Speaker 6 (15:52):
And so with that we've learned that sometimes not all
the time, but these parasites, these worms can be harmful.
They can lead to poor body condition for survival. Just
sort of general weakening doesn't often cause a direct disease.
It's sort of a lot of it's an extra burden.
And so for these tiny little mice that were what
you know, thirty grams and.
Speaker 1 (16:12):
The pilots a.
Speaker 6 (16:16):
Couple of right, yeah, you know, it can be difficult
to do parasite monitoring the faces. So the team here
has done a great job and I'm sure it's put
a lot of smiles on a lot of people's faces.
The fcocile was so small that we actually have.
Speaker 5 (16:28):
To pull them.
Speaker 6 (16:29):
We have to grab a whole bunch of specific pocket
mouse feces actually, and then and then you sort of
triash back to if you triosh back to you know
which mouse it came from, and then treat that individual.
But the point is that those mice that have a
parasite burden that is either too large or a burden
that they aren't handling well, it can be taxing on
(16:50):
them and to make them less ideal release candidates.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
Is this something that they would normally be exposed to
in the wild, and maybe it's a little more extreme.
Speaker 6 (16:58):
Yeah, parasites are I think there are very few wild
animals that don't have parasites.
Speaker 1 (17:03):
Yeah, my brain went in, like thick billed parrots an example.
Speaker 4 (17:05):
But what I understand of it is there getting expose
a little more obstacles in nature than what normally they'd
be interacting with. And some of it has to do
with climate change and higher temperature. So my brain start
be going like, is this something that could be attributed
to that?
Speaker 1 (17:17):
Possibly?
Speaker 6 (17:18):
Right, we know parasitic diseases, parasitic infections are a lot
of times there are still drivers off population trends, and
you know, the parasites can really take down whole populations
of animals. And the thick biled parrots a great example.
It's not an intestinal parasite, but you get acto parasites. Yes,
so lice and fleas and like external you're saying exactly, yeah,
living on the skin and then the feathers that might
live on the feathers. And but again they can be
(17:40):
they're normal. You know, they are parasites that are from
thick billed parasites and for thick parasites, but sometimes when the.
Speaker 5 (17:47):
Conditions change, balance is upset.
Speaker 6 (17:49):
The balance is upset, and you get too many of
those parasites, and it can be taxing again on the
system and effect survival, especially of young animals you know
that are already a rough time and leaving the true
for humans.
Speaker 5 (18:00):
Right, it's fun, but it's also a rough time, right yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
And that population is so small, right, I mean, you
guys know, but there are guests.
Speaker 4 (18:06):
I mean, what their normal range was, let's say Los
Angeles County all the way down to bajac ALIFTI if
I'm not mistaken.
Speaker 1 (18:12):
Originally ridge and now little slivers.
Speaker 4 (18:14):
Yeah, and this postal species, so guests aren't aware that
they really thrive in those areas that we like to
put our houses on the beach, you.
Speaker 5 (18:20):
Know, so they're active.
Speaker 6 (18:20):
Parasites like that are also challenge actually for the burying
owls that we are working here totally in our county,
the AGA recovery program and on the Mariana Islands that
we work on are involved in again chick fledgling survival,
that age where they have to leave the nest and
go find their own way. If there are too many parasites,
we know that it affects survival.
Speaker 2 (18:39):
Right yeah, Because it's challenging enough to hunt when you're
a new kid.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Figure things out and if you're doing.
Speaker 6 (18:44):
Imagine doing that when you have a poor code. And yeah, right.
Speaker 1 (18:46):
I was gonna make it talk about middle school. We
all know how rough that was. You know, now that's
a parasites and the next man. I don't know if
I could have survived that.
Speaker 3 (18:53):
Some people I went to middle school with would.
Speaker 1 (18:56):
I'm just saying, that's an after hours episode.
Speaker 5 (18:58):
We'll talk about it as a family.
Speaker 1 (19:01):
We will be surprised. Where's where we go here?
Speaker 4 (19:03):
But when you were talking, friend, I was thinking, you know,
all the other nuances and obstacles and things we have
to think about when it sounds I'm sure beautiful and
simple when we say like, yes we've raised a California
condor and their human care. Yes, we were releasing him
out in the beautiful valleys of say and so now
that as an example, or the Grand Canyon, But that's
not where the story ends. There's so much more that
we have to invest in these animals. It's a long game, right,
(19:26):
but it's definitely worth it.
Speaker 5 (19:27):
It is a long game. It's worth it. It's important.
Speaker 6 (19:29):
It's exploring understanding the role of health and recovery or
lack of recovery, is tremendously. More and more people are
recognizing how important it is, and in some ways the
fact that we've been able to talk about is a
luxury problem because at least we know what the problem is.
There's a lot of species populations parts of the world
where there are no wildlife diagnostics available. In fact, you
know a little tidbit that you know. I don't know
if I'm going on too far of.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
Time here, but spill the tea, spell the tea.
Speaker 6 (19:53):
The veterinarians of the California Department Fesshion of Wildlife actually
for the past year now is actually using our our
veterinary team, our diagnostics labs, our patology team to get
diagnostic support for the free ranging wildlife in California because
it makes it's not else available and they know that
we have this expertise here from working with the species
and we've made it available to them, and so we
(20:14):
are now working with them on man.
Speaker 3 (20:19):
Alliance.
Speaker 2 (20:20):
Because it goes into that we had that catchphrase we're
all life thrives, but it's not just a catch phrase.
When we're opening our doors for other agencies who don't
have access to those tools, try and say hey, come
and do this. We gain knowledge from it, sure, but
it also helps the species we're all trying to protect.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
I love the main thing, like doctor Berniska, right, I
mean not having access to wildlife. But you know we
have this beautiful Safari parking be able to create that
wonderful program for a frozen zoo.
Speaker 1 (20:43):
This is what zeus can do, right, So that's amazing.
Speaker 5 (20:45):
Had another layer to it.
Speaker 6 (20:46):
So we've been talking about the things that we know,
our problems and what we're doing about it. And then
so we've talked about the California Departments Fish and Wildlife
knowing that they had a problem, not having the tools
to anything about it. A whole other level again is
what our organization. And then specifically about the health team
is in Northern Kenya, the Kenya Wildlife Service veterinarians sort
of the veterinarians that are responsible for all the wildlife
and in Kenya inside and outside national parks, had no
(21:10):
infectious disease diagnostics available to them at all. Right, So
we are actually, maybe it's a different podcast, we are
just about we are just about you know, drum rolls.
We have built and are equipping a wildlife diagnostic lab
in northern Kenya.
Speaker 5 (21:23):
That's awesome.
Speaker 6 (21:23):
And the customers for that lab is entirely intended to
be the Kenya Wildlife Service and the other Kenyan entities
that aren't managing wildlife and wile of conservation. So it's
a whole other level. They know that there are questions,
but they don't even know what the questions are.
Speaker 5 (21:37):
Resource.
Speaker 3 (21:38):
Yeah, that's so amazing.
Speaker 4 (21:39):
All that's connected to the community, see right, I mean
we're talking about the wild that it's going to be
positively impacted by this, but also think of all the
human communities that are going to benefit for these studies
that are being done.
Speaker 6 (21:48):
Especially in a place like Kenya, where you know, here
we think of there's a space where the lion lives,
and there's a space where we walk and there's.
Speaker 5 (21:54):
Space lives Not true, Not true in that part of
the world.
Speaker 6 (21:57):
Right, So there's really an overlap between diseases of wildlife
and of livestock, and so knowing what is in the livestock, knowing.
Speaker 3 (22:03):
What is in washing because walking the same area.
Speaker 5 (22:06):
Eating the same grass, drinking the same water, sniffing the
same poop.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Yeah, I was gonna say, rubbing in if they need
to mammals discussing creatures, making it the bird guy, am.
Speaker 4 (22:17):
Stop friends here, competition, reptiles, amphibians, all at not just
on camera. Everyone to see that these guys are shaking
their head. That's really really great work. Actually another question
for you too. You know, if the younger people that
are listening in this audience right now, like, what would
you be recommendation for if they're interested in this kind
(22:39):
of work that you're doing here, like in the Alliance,
any like words of wisdom like look into this or
to that.
Speaker 6 (22:44):
That's a whole nother podcast, right if anything. I know
when I started realizing this was even their possibility as
a profession to work with wildlife or zoo animals as
a veterinarian. But when you start saying that out loud,
people are like, you know, just this is never going
to happen, right, what chances you know? And little boy
from Belgium and they end up, I said, a veterinarian,
(23:05):
it's San Diegouz a wall the flyings.
Speaker 5 (23:06):
So it is possible.
Speaker 6 (23:07):
And so my point is those jobs and those opportunities
are out there.
Speaker 5 (23:11):
Somebody's going to get him. It might as well be you.
Speaker 1 (23:13):
Oh, go after it.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
So you're in a very unique position with what you
do in a unique organization that does incredible global work.
Speaker 3 (23:20):
What's your backstory? Film mind me asking. We always kind
of like to ask.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Our guests like how did you get to where you
are and doing this? Because again, your story might be
something that someone who's listening, another person from Belgium maybe.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
Could be like, oh, I could do that. What's your backstory?
How did you get here?
Speaker 6 (23:34):
Gosh, you know, it's a very interesting story, not for
a podcast, but my track. Well, at some point when
I was in my teens, I always thought I wanted
to be a veterinarian. And then I actually read a
book reader his Digest, that was his story about a
girl in Canada I who rescued a harvesteal pup, which
is by the way, completely illegal.
Speaker 5 (23:52):
She took it home and.
Speaker 6 (23:54):
Yeah, I didn't know that she did, and the last
parag quess and so she went on to college and
studied marine biology and she's now a marine biologist. But
here I was like, oh my gosh, you can do this.
I don't want to be a veterinarian. I want to
be a marine biologist. And so I've actually gone back
and forth, ended up going to VET school, but then
after FAT school, did some clinical training after that, but
actually moved to New Zealand to do a master's in
(24:16):
marine biology, and then I.
Speaker 5 (24:17):
Came to the US to do a PhD.
Speaker 6 (24:19):
And they end up working as a veterinarian, and then
I ended up overseeing a lab. And you know, here
I am now to say, the zoo wild flings with
a fantastic health team and really fortunate. I consider myself
sort of the captain of the Olympic team of zoo
and wildft health.
Speaker 5 (24:34):
That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (24:35):
Oh, that's great, friend.
Speaker 2 (24:36):
Was there anything that we didn't ask that you think
our audience should know about wildlife health and what you
do in your team?
Speaker 5 (24:43):
No, no, I'm not surprised you brought up pooped in
the interview. Everybody a veterinaria, you learn a.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Lot from it.
Speaker 4 (24:50):
Also used to like scooping up some castwary people matter,
and that's pretty easy.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
But envision like the Pacific pocket.
Speaker 6 (24:55):
Now yeah, magnifying, Yeah, looking for it of the fair
sight egg, Yeah exactly.
Speaker 4 (25:01):
But even like I was having lunch here and just
seeing all the different teams from our playing teams, specific
pocket mouths, the frog team, recruised by earlier team, But
I just love the passion for everyone. They're all I
miss those jokes and nego glad to be back now.
But it makes me feel really proud to be part
of a team like this or everyone has their passions
and their skill sets and apply them really effectively to
(25:23):
So kudas to you guys, and you and the teams
for all the work that you guys do.
Speaker 5 (25:27):
Yeah, no, thank you for telling the story.
Speaker 6 (25:28):
You know, we are one of those departments that were
most of our responsibilities are at the zoo and park,
but our work helps make all this conservation work possible exactly,
just like all these other people here who volunteer or
work at San Diego Zuada Alliance. And then so it's
not just our conservation science teams, our field teams who
get to do this work and make it possible. Everybody
makes it possible and we while they're health we are
(25:48):
very fortunate that we get to straddle those worlds. You know,
we get to have the best of the work here
at home and then we get to still be impactful
contributors to the field programs.
Speaker 3 (25:57):
That's so cool.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
I love it. I do have one more question.
Speaker 5 (26:01):
I know, that's all those two questions.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
That was supposed to be the final one. But yeah,
one more question.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
That's the way I was saying.
Speaker 4 (26:07):
We're still talking in your experience with the Alliance, was
there a particular project that really stood out for you then?
Speaker 1 (26:12):
Like, you know, I'm just kind of curious.
Speaker 4 (26:14):
Thank you, thanks man, you know, because we've talked a
lot of different species, but I've read into your background.
You're definitely a marine animal kind of guy, right, but
I'm curious here in the Alliance, like, what's the one
that's kind of getting you vibe in right now?
Speaker 1 (26:24):
It's getting percolating.
Speaker 6 (26:25):
Yeah, Well, obviously I'll look at this from a health perspective.
You know, when you're a hammer, everything looks like a nails.
Speaker 1 (26:32):
I get that.
Speaker 6 (26:33):
Yeah, and so I'm obviously sort of focused on the
initiatives that have a health component. I'm very excited about
the work we do in Kenya right now. Opening this
lab is maybe just a stepping stone that will make
all these other things possible. So that's very exciting. We're
going to meet with our health partners in Kenya in
two months and just a few weeks ago and we
were starting to talk about this next phase. We no
longer have to talk about the lab and the equipment
(26:55):
and the askephase. We can talk about what are the neats,
what's going wrong, where do you suspect it health issue
and with wildlife, and where do you expect that a
pathogen is hindering recovery or causing decline. So that is
a very exciting initiative. Personally, I'm also very proud and
excited about the partnership with California Department Fishing and Wildlife.
We'll be able to give back to our wildlife right
(27:17):
here in our beautiful not just Southern California and California statewide.
I think is one that makes me smile. So yeah, Kenya,
Fish and Wildlife, California. There's more. Trying really hard not
to mention any marine projects.
Speaker 4 (27:31):
You can of meg, it's fine, all creatures great and small,
feathered or not feather, It's perfectly okay. No, but that's
really great, especially from Kenya to San Diego. It just
shows how unlimited the possibilities are for the kind of
effective work that we can do, and hopefully that really
gets guests excited to come back to the zoo, come
back to the Safaria Park, after hearing this particular podcast
episode and really try to understand some of the nuanced
(27:52):
work that we're doing here. And don't forget those tours,
guys are highly recommended, hard and are amazing.
Speaker 2 (27:57):
It's also real quick, just really important for our members
to hear this from you. Yeah, because a lot of
times I think members know they're supporting wild life, supporting conservation,
but to hear these actual stories and to know that, Wow,
being a member is not only allowing me to come
and go from the Zoom Park however I want you
get through school, journal whatever. Yeah, but it's actually helping
us do things like that project you mentioned in Kenya,
which you know that's a lot of money and it's
(28:20):
not coming from nowhere. Our members are a big part
of making that happen.
Speaker 5 (28:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 6 (28:22):
Absolutely, And if people do come to the zoo and park,
well not if when and if they do visit to
one of these behind the scenes area. If you get
a chance to stop by one of the hospitals, please
do because it'll be very telling. It'll be very compelling.
The quality of care and the dedication and the commitment
to caring for the animals that is just so obvious
when you walk into these facilities.
Speaker 5 (28:42):
Is I wish we could share with everybody.
Speaker 3 (28:43):
Yeah, it's an impressive hospital. It's amazing.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
We're so involved in our zoo world.
Speaker 4 (28:48):
Like when I go outside of the zoo world and
I want to talk about something like a giant handa
or a condor, that the kind of.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Look at me kind of oddly. Yeah. I really love
being around the zoo community. So I appreciate this. I
mean this, I learned a lot. So thank you so
much for Yeah, thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
We spend us some time with I know you're busy
and you're gonna be traveling soon, so I really appreciate
you sitting down with us and letting us pick your
brain on these stories.
Speaker 5 (29:06):
Enjoyed it. Let's do it again.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
I want to hear the after story.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Yeah right, wow, that was really great.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Right, that was amazing.
Speaker 2 (29:15):
I mean, honestly, the journal is great, but being able
to talk to him adding so much more to those
stories it's in the journal about what we're doing. It's
just so cool. And it again goes back to what
we mentioned in the interview. It's like, wow, it really
makes you very proud to be a part of this
organization and really do, not just spending a day at
the park of the zoo, but then that work that
we're collaborating with fish and game, we're collaborating with Kenya
(29:37):
and all these other things just so amazing.
Speaker 1 (29:39):
I know, and it makes me think of the possibilities.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
I mean, we talked about, for instance, Frozen Zoo, what
we've done over fifty years ago. So my brain starts going,
what's going to happen fifty.
Speaker 1 (29:46):
Years Yeah, one hundred years from now, you know.
Speaker 4 (29:48):
So I think it makes you so excited to be
here and be part of the alliance and hopefully a guest.
Speaker 1 (29:52):
Can one become a member?
Speaker 4 (29:53):
Read the journal, learn more about these projects, do the tours.
Speaker 1 (29:57):
They're pretty great, you know.
Speaker 4 (29:57):
I learned about all the nuance of wildlife from the
tiniest little Pacific pocket mouse of this giant condor you
So that's really great. You know, as I'm talking, I
think I have an idea, but I already forgot Italy,
what's the next episode of Fred?
Speaker 1 (30:10):
Because I want to.
Speaker 4 (30:11):
Say maybe a little bird brain, but I want we're
going to.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Be staying at the Safari Park, and we are, we are.
Speaker 4 (30:18):
And maybe we're going to celebrating a very special day
close to possibly Yeah, I think.
Speaker 2 (30:23):
There's a day near the end of September with a
bird in balls.
Speaker 4 (30:27):
Giant dinosaur looking bird right fruit, You guys figure it out,
but I am super super punned. I'm gonna try really
hard not do that bird. I know the sound right now,
but I'm super excited. Hopefully you got some stick around
and learn all about the magnificent Southern Cat.
Speaker 2 (30:46):
Yes already, Mark and I Rick Schwartz, thanks for listening
and for watching. For more information about the San Diego
Zoo and San Diego Zoo Safari Park, go to SDZWA
dot org. Amazing Wildlife is a production of iHeartRadio. Our
(31:08):
supervising producers are Nikia Swinton and Dylan Fagan, and our
sound designers are Sierra Spreen and Matt Russell. For more
shows from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Hosts And Creators
Rick Schwartz
Marco Wendt
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