June 6, 2025 • 29 mins
Having never been successfully domesticated, the Przewalski's horse is the only true wild horse of our time. This week, hosts Rick and Marco are speaking with Amanda Lussier about the Przewalski's horse and how the species went from being extinct in the wild to having populations reintroduced in Mongolia. Tune in to learn more about these horses and how zoos, conservation work, and science are helping save these amazing horses.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Ruby. Hi, I'm Rick Schwartz, but us the world, I'm
Marco went.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Welcome to Amazing Wildlife, where we explore unique stories of
wildlife from around the world and uncovered fascinating animal facts.
And this podcast is in production with iHeartRadio's Ruby Studio
and San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance, an international nonprofit conservation
organization which oversees the San Diego Zoo and this beautiful place,
the San Diego Zoo Safari Park.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Horses are pretty.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Rick horses are not only pretty, but they're pretty amazing.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Oh, I think they're definitely amazing.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
What an awesome day to day we get to be
at the Safari Park. They get to be in the
back of a widelife care specialist truck.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
It's always a good time.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
It's a bit of a leap from our last episode
a little bit. We are in all in the science
so the Frozen.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Yeah, I'm just laughing because you know all the prep
that the poor crew had to do to be in
the back of a truck or Amanda in the back there,
if everyone could see a really good time. But that
reminds me. Listen to see, right, we got the visual
components keep an eye out. Hopefully you'll checking out on
YouTube right follow zoology rickog Marco. Thank you, sir, but
we're here to follow up right because, like you said,
(01:17):
we were with the curator of the Frozen Zoo the
last episode.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, and in that story that also linked back to
our last episode from the previous season where we talked
to doctor Oliver Ryder where he talked also a lot
about the importance of the Frozen Zoo and how we're
seeing genetic bottlenecks to certain species, and these pretty amazing
horses behind us having a lot to do with that.
It's really a great example of how the frozens who
can support them and make changes in the world. So
(01:42):
before we go any further with it, let's welcome in
our guest, Amanda, who's admiring the beautiful horses behind us.
How are you today, Hi.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
I'm great. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Oh we're so excited too, I mean, especially for this
amazing animal.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
We haven't even said the name yet.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Say right, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's another name for it
is I know, I really love the other ones, by
the way, because I know you're going to talk about it,
but you know, the Chavalski's horse is named after a
gentleman from Russia, like right, exploring Mongolia.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
Yes, absolutely, yes, but they're known by many other names.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
They are they are right, Mongolian Wildrrian.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
Wild horses, Asian wild horses. Here in the States, we
refer to them as the Preswolski wild horse.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
I get it, But I would like this to kind
of remind the world that, you know, there's so many
other diversities of language, right. I actually am a big
fan of the word taki. So it's the traditional name, right,
and it means a holy horse or spirit, which is
pretty apro bo. I mean when you look at these
amazing animals, right, I mean the only wild horse is.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
That, right?
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Yes, the only truly wild horse. And I'm so glad
that you brought up that name Taki. I love that.
And this horse is from the Mongolian step and the
Mongolian people are so proud. It is such a point
of pride for them. And the success of their reintroduction,
which I'm sure you learned about and we'll talk about
(03:05):
is a big part of it is because of the
people of Mongolia.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
I love that people and nature are always interconnected, so
I always like to give respect to all that, so
thank you for bringing that up. But I was just thinking,
you know, before we really get the conversation started, can
you describe to our listeners for those who are able
to see this animal yet in their own lives, like
what does it look like?
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Where are they from? Will make some unique Yeah?
Speaker 4 (03:27):
Absolutely, you know, not a lot of people get the
chance to see one of these animals up close and
in person. And I think if you're familiar with domestic horses,
you probably have an image in your mind of you know,
really tall, sleek, dark, different color variations. The I'll call
them pea horse. Okay, I'm their care specialists, so they
(03:51):
give me.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
A little bit of.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Amanda. Yeah, but yes, they look a little bit different.
They they are quite a bit shorter, so big size difference.
They typically like max out around seven hundred pounds or
a little bit heavier. But they're stout, stocky, really thick neck,
very spiky, short mane exactly, and they lack a forelock
(04:19):
like other wild types of equid zebras donkeys domestic horses.
They have that kind of like a long bang and
the front fore lock. And you'll notice that the pea
horses behind me, they don't have that, just a really
short spiky mane. Their coloration's very uniform, so it's called
a dune coloration. This kind of like a washed out
(04:42):
chestnut light color. It's so beautiful, with a big black
dorsal stripe down their back and dark mane tail legs.
One thing that you'll notice they have water known as
spider markings. So these are also AFRA to as primitive markings,
but they are things like that dorsal stripe, the fact
(05:05):
that you would see in a more wild species stripes
on their legs, little bands on their legs like a zebra.
And what's really special is that some of the members
of our herd behind me have these shoulder patches that
are genetic and they're passed down within their families. So
you'll notice that in our three females behind us, their
(05:27):
shoulder patches kind of look like the state of Florida before.
Isn't that so cool? And what's so interesting is that
viider markings are non symmetrical spots. They're kind of blatchy,
but they are symmetrical on both sides of their body.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
That's wild, really yes, like visual identifying us within the herd,
you think or do we know?
Speaker 4 (05:53):
I'm not sure. I do know that it's a specific
gene that is passed down from parents, and so we
have a family group behind us. We have Nikki is
the oldest, the matriarch, she's twenty one years old, her
daughter Gal who's almost sweet sixteen, and then Gal's daughter
(06:14):
and Nikki's granddaughter, Galan, who's two years old, and they
all have.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
I love that. That's awesome. It's funny.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
It reminds you like I tend to when I'm not
paying attention, watch TV a little to.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
My right, to the side of my eye.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
And then one day I noticed my cousins all of
us doing the same thing, and they're really weird to
be out.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
But it speaks to genetics, right, Yes, it.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
All comes back to genetics totally.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Rather but also like they referred to as like the
only wild horse, what does that mean?
Speaker 1 (06:43):
What's that about?
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Yeah, that's a great question and pretty confusing. So obviously
they differ to domestic horses in their physical appearance, their temperament,
but also their genetics.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, we heard about that when we were talking to
all Yeah, he was staying there right.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Sixty sixty six I think, yeah, I remember, right, right,
and sixty four for domestic exactly.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
And so what that means is that they are so
distantly related to domestic hourses we think that they probably
diverged from them between like one hundred and sixty thousand
years ago to you know, maybe like eighty thousand years ago,
somewhere in that window. And the reason that we know
that they're not the ancestor to domestic courses and vice
(07:25):
versa is because they have a different number of chromosomes,
and that's just gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
So the shared ancestor somewhere back there, deep deep in
the history of the planet, the shared answers, they.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Diverged and they've been separate for a long time.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Well yeah, yeah, And I remember reading too that some
people might feel, what about the wild horses that run
the mustangs here in the US, But they're all basically
at one point where domestic horses that got out and
learned to live on their own in the wild. So
they aren't a true wild species that's native there. They
were actually brought in from the European domestic species eons
ago or whenever it was.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
And I was regretting about then sometimes they even have
to set so many flee these animals, so they're not
technically a native species of the US.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
So something to think about.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
But the pea horse is right from that beautiful area,
really habitat, wouldn't you say, Like, yeah, can you describe it.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
For a little.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
So they're from the Eurasian step, the Mongolian step, which
is like a high elevation grasslands, and it can be
really harsh conditions at times, so it gets really hot
during the summer times. It gets really hot here and
then very cold. And as a result of these like
(08:34):
high temperature extremes, the environment there goes through a lot
of changes and it can be difficult to find food.
So the pea horses are a little bit more adaptable
than a domestic horse and what they'll be able to eat.
So they will primarily graze as you're seeing, but they
also do a little bit of browsing the little forbs
(08:54):
and plants well during different seasons.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Like whatever you can get right, because it changes so much, Yes,
water to.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Water that is I'm so glad you brought that up,
because that's kind of like the limiting factor for.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yeah, vallid point right, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
And so what's interesting about them is, I know we
haven't really gone to but when they went extinct in
the wild, the last remaining free living pea horses in
the late nineteen sixties were pushed so far out of
the step into the Gobi Desert, and that is where
the last pea horses were when they went extinct in
(09:36):
the wild.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
More of an extreme when you think about it, just
to avoid human conflict and.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
Land aggregation, competition, hunting, and predation from wolves, I mean, I.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Mean natural, right, but then you throw in all the
human aspect.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, so I think it's worth I mean you since
you mentioned it, let's bring it up. This species has
done well with the assistance of zoos and the assistance
of our friends of the Frozen Zoo most recently, right,
But that is because there was a point in the
late sixties early seventies they were actually extinct.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
In the wild.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
Yes, yeah, completely extirpated from the wild. And it's one
of these really incredible stories and huge source of pride
for everyone who works and managed care and sciences. There
was very small group of just over a dozen pew
horses in European zoos and because of that small population,
(10:31):
that was carefully managed by pairing certain individuals and keeping
a really diverse group of genes in the animals that
they did have. They built up the population. They worked
to make sure there was a space for them to
go back to, because that's a huge part of conservation.
You have to address the issues that took them out.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
I mean, we always say, like, we would love, as
people in a zoo setting to be out of a job,
right if all these animals could thrive in these beautiful
native habitat. But it's sad to say that that's not
the case for so many species too. So really good
that we have these breeding programs under human care to
help out all these species.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
I just can't imagine being in that time period of
the late sixties early seventies, being in animal care, being
either in the zoo world or qology or biology, and
recognizing that this species is now gone from the wild,
and they kind of looking around, going, wait a minute,
there's some in the zoos there in Europe, and there's
some in the zoos in America. There's some way we
got so they're not gone gone. We have a chance,
(11:32):
you know. And then they started the process which you
Manna mentioned, which is that being very selected with the
breeding process and all of that. And doctor Oliver Ryder
mentioned that in our interview with him last season. How
even with that though, it did create sort of this
genetic challenge with the population. Now since that time, since
being extinct in the wild, they have been reintroduced back
into a safe space and they went from being listed
(11:56):
as extinct in the wild to oh yeah, we were talking.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
About they went from being extinct in the world to
repatriated in certain areas of Mongolia, whose Dai National Park
is kind of their stronghold where a lot of those
zoo born Prezovski horses, eighty four of them were airlifted
dropped into the park.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Oh yeah, not that visual. Yeah, no, kids, we cannot
drop horses.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
Yeah, they were delivered carefully into the park. And what's
so great is that the reverence the Mongolian people have
for animals. Horses are very important to the history horses, yes,
and the TALKI the pea horses, and so they were
very on board for having this special space designated for
(12:51):
the pea horses. And so now we've talked about like
downlisting classification, which there are so few animals that were
privileged enough to say, like, because of human efforts and
actions and mitigation, they've gone from extinct in the wild
to critically endangered to now endangered. So it's trending, trending
(13:14):
the right directions so much, and we're so happy to
be a part of it.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
And with that, I think this is such an important
part of the story for this species, but other species
as well, And I want people to understand who are
watching or listening that it was a late sixties, early
seventies they were extinct and now here we are fifty
sixty years later, and it's weird to say only endangered,
but to go from critically endangered to endangered. This trend
(13:37):
is showing us that conservation is a long game. It's
a long process. It does work. But with that, even
while it is working and we're slowly seeing them come
down off that excruciating and painfulness to see animals on,
it doesn't mean we stop doing the work. And that
brings us back then into our conversation with doctor Rider
and Merrily's Holker, curator of the Frozen Zoo, how the
(13:58):
genetics a certain animal that have been saved from fifty
sixty more years ago can now be such an important part.
So just to touch on real quick, not part of
this herd, but elsewhere in the fire park, we have
two males that are cloned from an individual whose genes
did not exist until they were born, so his genetics
weren't in the population on the planet yet like fifty
(14:20):
years ago, it was right, It was right when he
passed away, and they saved his genetics. Now thanks to
the Frozen Zoo, they can help diversify those genes of
the hurt that we have here in the US or
anywhere Elselse boys might go. And it's so important to
understand the tie between the science we talked about in
our last episode and the conservation work that people have
done in zoo's and to see that now the Taki being,
(14:42):
although still endangered, trending in the right direction because we
have a better understanding about these animals went extinct due
to human behavior and then human behavior can bring them
back and change that. I think it's so important. I
really appreciate that part of the story here of these.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Sources now, I love it, and it runs them like community, right.
It takes a village, it takes out of the community,
it takes our.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Science seems to amazing.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Kudos to the science team, but also mad props to
a wildlife care specialists. You are out here, you are sweating,
you're taking care of all these habits ads. But you know,
I remember, I love coming home sweaty and stinky, and
you know, knowing that I did really, really good work.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
So again, big big kudahs all the stuff that you're doing.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
It's like, what like over one hundred and sixty right, baby,
two horses have been born at the Zoo and Safari Park.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
Yes, yeah, And I love what you said. It takes
a whole world does One thing I wanted to mention is,
and you guys have talked about our work has never done.
We're still doing all of this stuff. We're still managing
the stud books and making sure it's a diverse population. Nikki,
our oldest female here is from Zurich. She came to
(15:44):
us all the way from Zurich, and so that's kind
of an interesting thing to think about, how we're still
working all over the planet to make sure that this
population is demographically stable, genetically diverse. But yeah, I'm just
so honored to be a part of it. I love
working with these horses. We've had over one hundred and
(16:05):
sixty folds. We're very hopeful to have a couple more
this year, so check back with us. But we've had
them in a breeding situation, and so yes, we're excited
to see our herd grow again.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
I got distract the demand move.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
I thought one of the people was just really close
to but you were telling me that wicked personalities.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
But they're also a little feisty.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
But you gotta be feisty if you're a taki or
a pea horse, right. Can you talk a little bit
about like their social dynamics not in the wild, how
do they go about?
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Are they alone or are they social?
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Like?
Speaker 1 (16:39):
What's their tea? Tell me the absolutely.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
I'd love to spell. Okay, So in the wild, they
would be found in sort of like small nomadic groupings,
typically comprised of like a group of mayors, group of females.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Kind of like what we're saying, yes.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
They're offspring, and then maybe one stallion like the leader
of the hair on their call. And then separate from
that there are small bachelor groups. So we have that
exact situation happening.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Point out, like you're doing exactly what their social dynamics
would be doing out in the wild, which.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Is really cool.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
And so that's the best way for us to set
them up for success and to help our younger males
learn how to become stallions and grow up in a
place that is safe for them to goof around and
get big and strong.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
I mean, they got to fight a little bit, right
because they got it prepared to around. See what just happening,
you guys, I'm always waiting, joke, A man is shaking
your head.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Now, that was pretty good. Give me some talking. That
was solid, all right.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I really think it's important to what you guys have
talked about in the sense of just reiterating. A lot
of times, I think the general public we've been misled
to believe that, oh, you put a male and female
together and you get a family, and you make more
that way, and you just keeping together and they're fine.
Where it's that understanding the natural behavior that we need
those boys to be separate for a little bit. Those
young guys need to learn from the older guys how
to be stallion because it's important for the dynamic of
(18:02):
the entire species of the herd of how they're going
to interact. So often at zoos here at fire Park's
a great example. You have a heard of females, and
you might go, why only females, how can you make more? Well,
the boys are often a separate bachelor heard somewhere because
they only there might be only certain times a year
that they're actually come together as a whole group. So
it's a great way to remind people, so say our
young listeners that it's about observing the behaviors to understand
(18:26):
what they need instead of just assuming we know what
they need and then working with them constantly, working with
them as a wildlifecare specialist, not just coming up to
feed and clean, but really understanding every little bit of
their behavior, the group behavior as well, and how that
social structure is so important to each species.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
Yeah, and they have, even within these smaller group beings,
a very complex hierarchy of dominance, and so that's something
that we have to take into account. So with domestic courses,
they certainly have usually bigger groups of horses, like either
wild mustangs or when people have them at a ranch,
(19:02):
it's usually like a bigger grouping of horses than you
might see with like this waw species, and those groupings
and dominant hierarchies are influenced by humans, you know. They
put those in place. Pea horses. They're duking it out
with them.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
They don't care what you do. We're going to take
care of this.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
And it's always changing. They're always as they age, as
they have babies, as animals move in, and as sources
and so. Another difference is they're much more physical, gregarious,
aggressive than a domestic words.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
That's normal, right, It's normal for them.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
That's how they are.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
It makes you think like condor sometimes and I see
people like there, I tell them like, oh, these who
have known each other for years, but then one just
turns around and just bites another one in the lag
or valley.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
But like that's just a condor being a condor, you know,
talk to each other and being tough on each other
like that helps strengthen the third. They've got to deal
with predators in the wild. You don't want somebody to
herd who can't handle those things. So we look at
that sometimes the outside is well that seems so mean
and so nu but it's how they have to survive.
It's what has gotten them to where they are today.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
It runs every episode with meerkats our first episode. You
know you stress right now, you stresses a lot of factors.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
You know, they are more individualistic, less social as we
would like to think, kind of run to the pea horses. Honestly,
earlier you were telling me managing a population like.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
There's a lot of things involved.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
You know, I'm a big fan of behavior and you
were telling me there's you also do some behavioral nuances,
shaping certain behaviors to help on their every day Yeah,
you speak a little bit about lately.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
So what's hard about managing herds and their everyday care
is that they want to be together. There heard it's
hard to get one to peel away in a way
that doesn't stress them out. And then the pew horses
are incredibly jealous of one another. So if I'm trying
to look at one female, a more dominant female is
(20:54):
going to come over and be like, I don't think
so this attention is for me.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
So we've had we've all had that one friend right about.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
Yeah, So we've had to be creative and we've looked
at how other groups of animals are managed and are
kind of similarly. We look to our friends over on
the elephant Wildlife Care Specialist team, and we were like, hey,
they have one person working with each elephant, and that's
important for groups of animals of strong prominence and hierarchy.
(21:28):
Let's try this here. And so we work with the
horses every day on training different behaviors that help us
to give them medical.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Care the way they.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
Can and it reduces their stress so much. They're very
willing to interact with us. They love attention. But it's
that shared language where we can understand, like, hey, you
specific gal or Balon or Nicktine, you're going to be
with me, Amanda best friend, your favorite.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Care specialist, favorite human.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
Yeah, you're gonna be with me. I need you to
peel away from the group. We're gonna go over here.
I want you to turn left, turn right, face down
the middle, let me see your foot, those kind of things.
And they're like, oh, yeah, I understand, Yeah, all right,
and then that's it. It's so much better when we
can work together. It's better for them. It's a great
way to connect and build relationships. So we love that.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Oh that's amazing, you know. I love being able to
do that. And it's almost like a way of communicating
right to another species. So Coude is for that, that's
what it's amazing.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
It's cool.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah, since you were talking about the care side of
it and that I do know. We have a lot
of young listeners and families that listen to this podcast,
and it's always fun to ask our guests how did
you get into this? So we talk a lot just
now about the training as an example, so you have
to understand behavior and training. A lot of us learn
on the jobs and go to school for it. It
is work, it's hard labor, but it's also emotionally rewarding too.
(22:55):
How did you first step into the process of now
we're taking care of these amazing horses.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
No, right, it's pretty great. I from when I was
a little kid always wanted to work with animals.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
I grew up in Tom Springs area and I used
to come here when I was a little kid and
in high school and I was like, I want to
work here someday. How can I get here? It's my dream?
And so I went to college. I've got my degree
in zoology, my undergrad degree, and I've been working here
for fifteen years now. I've also gotten my master's in
(23:30):
zoology and I love hoofstock, animals with hoofs ungulates, pea
horses included. I've loved all the animals that I work with,
pea horses definitely high up there. So yeah, I just
I love the mission of what we're doing. I love
conservation science in the wild and I have been part
(23:51):
of many programs where we're working in tandem to try
to figure out how to best protect animals that are
in the wild, how we can connect our knowledge of
animals in human care. It's just such a great place
for doing that.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
I think so pretty much love this place. I'm a
little bit by it.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
And again you bring in from a zoology while that
you're a specialist perspective, the value and importance of that
working in collaboration across the world, across the nation, even
across the park at the Frozen Zoom, or like you
just mentioned too, going hey wait a minute, elephant care
team does this, we should try that, and being able
to apply that knowledge across and the words you use,
(24:30):
it takes the village, the words you use, it takes
the world. But it's so great to hear that and
have you discussed it in that way that really paints
it as Yes, my every day I work with all
these different entities because this is how we make a difference.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Yeah, yeah, and I love you brought up your background.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
I just had a question on my Instagram about what
should my child in college be thinking about to become
a keeper or wildlife care specialist. You went through schooling.
I actually just gr up here, so I learned a
lot on the job. But for kids that are listening
right now, I think, honestly, in my opinion, you guys,
I don't know what you guys think, but I think
it's a trifecta.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
I think it's education, think it's experience.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
But also people kind of forget the networking aspect of
it all. You know, shake some hands, be a good
friendly human being, you know, and that gets you a
long way as well.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
I gotta say, yeah, there's no one path, and that's
what makes it great. Everyone has a That's why.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
It's always so great to ask a story. Everyone has a.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Different that's awesome. Oct I was thinking another question that.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
I really love, like what's your absolute favorite talkie?
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Pea horse fact?
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Like something that you just love pulling out and knowing, Like,
did you guys know.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
That or did you already cover it maybe maybe maybe.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
You know, when you think of another new found.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Were really good at editing too, so we can I mean,
you guys should know these things.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
You let me ask after Google. Okay, so the pea horses,
they are the only horse species that sheds out their
entire coat every year, so you won't ever.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
See That's what I was. I'm sure you listeners are
thinking the same thing. Okay, let's they shut.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
Out winter colda summer code. But then they also shut
out their tail and their main so there's a point where.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
The like their main list, their tail lists all leave
it once.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
It's not like a bird, it's not like a penguins.
It's not like a peng ghost.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
It would but no, I mean adaptably.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
It does make sense to me because you're an extreme climate,
so you can't just lose all this protection that you
have in extreme heat or extreme cold. Or the penguin
aspect was me thinking, you know, they got to swim,
but they have a short windows, so they're going to feathers,
get it colling, so we can survive. But that's really unique,
all these interesting adaptations I have for that's such an
extreme climate that they live in.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Yeah, wow, that's awesome. Yeah, thank you for that. That
was a really cool fact. I learned so much.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Yeah, I thank you Amanda so much for taking the
time today and getting us out here in your truck
in with your friends to hang out and actually not
just talk about them, but see them and be in
the space where you care for them. So thank you
so much.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
Yeah for making the truck.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
That was great.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Well, I got to say to one of those things, Marco,
where we talked about the swasks were talking. We talked
about them with doctor Ryder. We have talked about Frozen
Zoo and the importance of it, and then they come
out here and spend time in the field with these
three gorgeous horses to see it and then to be
able to talk to a man about how the shift
(27:27):
and changes occurred over the decades for the PA horse.
It's so I don't just it's like I can't wait
for it.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Amazing and the connectivity to you again, like I said
it during the interview, you know, but from everyone from
scientists to a wildlife care team. So again, our visitors
that come every day writing kids have come over and.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Get inspired all these amazing stories of conservation.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
You know, and I know I'm a bird gap of man,
I'm a big fan of these horses. I gotta say
it learns so much of the horse and what a
great place. I mean even at talking to me right now,
but they see a greater one who in Ryano with?
I mean, the Safari Park is so amazing. So get
your butts at the park is the point, right, You
want either want to.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Come here and you're gonna have a really, really good time.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Now, if I'm not mistaken them, my friend, I think
the next episode we're gonna stay here at.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
I'm sure you're disappointed we'll be staying here.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
I'm excited. But something unique is happening.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Absolutely absolutely, and it's one of those things where we
get to celebrate a species that I think sometimes because
they're so populous in zoos, people might take them for
granted and we can take much of them, but they
do need a lot more attention in conservation. They're getting
it right. But it does coincide with the longest day
of the year. If you're in the northern hemisphere.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Oh yeah, yeah, I think.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
You might know what animal has its special day on
the longest day of the year.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Let them figure it out, right, right, right, well.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
With that little teaser, Yeah you haven't already been sure
to subscribe and then tune in the next time we
talk about the animal who has a day dedicated to
it because it's the longest day of the year and
there's something about length involved with them species.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Oh, I can't wait, and I'm mark away.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
And I'm ex Florence. Thanks for listening or in this
case watching. For more information about the San Diego Zoo
and San Diego Zoo Safari Park, go to SDZWA dot org.
Amazing Wildlife is a production of iHeartRadio. Our supervising producers
are Nikkia Swinton and Dylan Fagan, and our sound designers
are Sierra Spreen and Matt Russell. For more shows from iHeartRadio,
(29:23):
check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows.
Ruby. Hi, I'm Rick Schwartz, but us the world, I'm
Marco went.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Welcome to Amazing Wildlife, where we explore unique stories of
wildlife from around the world and uncovered fascinating animal facts.
And this podcast is in production with iHeartRadio's Ruby Studio
and San Diego Zoo Wildlife Alliance, an international nonprofit conservation
organization which oversees the San Diego Zoo and this beautiful place,
the San Diego Zoo Safari Park.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Horses are pretty.
Speaker 2 (00:34):
Rick horses are not only pretty, but they're pretty amazing.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Oh, I think they're definitely amazing.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
What an awesome day to day we get to be
at the Safari Park. They get to be in the
back of a widelife care specialist truck.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
It's always a good time.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
It's a bit of a leap from our last episode
a little bit. We are in all in the science
so the Frozen.
Speaker 3 (00:55):
Yeah, I'm just laughing because you know all the prep
that the poor crew had to do to be in
the back of a truck or Amanda in the back there,
if everyone could see a really good time. But that
reminds me. Listen to see, right, we got the visual
components keep an eye out. Hopefully you'll checking out on
YouTube right follow zoology rickog Marco. Thank you, sir, but
we're here to follow up right because, like you said,
(01:17):
we were with the curator of the Frozen Zoo the
last episode.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Yeah, and in that story that also linked back to
our last episode from the previous season where we talked
to doctor Oliver Ryder where he talked also a lot
about the importance of the Frozen Zoo and how we're
seeing genetic bottlenecks to certain species, and these pretty amazing
horses behind us having a lot to do with that.
It's really a great example of how the frozens who
can support them and make changes in the world. So
(01:42):
before we go any further with it, let's welcome in
our guest, Amanda, who's admiring the beautiful horses behind us.
How are you today, Hi.
Speaker 4 (01:49):
I'm great. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 3 (01:51):
Oh we're so excited too, I mean, especially for this
amazing animal.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
We haven't even said the name yet.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
Say right, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's another name for it
is I know, I really love the other ones, by
the way, because I know you're going to talk about it,
but you know, the Chavalski's horse is named after a
gentleman from Russia, like right, exploring Mongolia.
Speaker 4 (02:08):
Yes, absolutely, yes, but they're known by many other names.
Speaker 1 (02:12):
They are they are right, Mongolian Wildrrian.
Speaker 4 (02:14):
Wild horses, Asian wild horses. Here in the States, we
refer to them as the Preswolski wild horse.
Speaker 3 (02:23):
I get it, But I would like this to kind
of remind the world that, you know, there's so many
other diversities of language, right. I actually am a big
fan of the word taki. So it's the traditional name, right,
and it means a holy horse or spirit, which is
pretty apro bo. I mean when you look at these
amazing animals, right, I mean the only wild horse is.
Speaker 1 (02:42):
That, right?
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Yes, the only truly wild horse. And I'm so glad
that you brought up that name Taki. I love that.
And this horse is from the Mongolian step and the
Mongolian people are so proud. It is such a point
of pride for them. And the success of their reintroduction,
which I'm sure you learned about and we'll talk about
(03:05):
is a big part of it is because of the
people of Mongolia.
Speaker 3 (03:10):
I love that people and nature are always interconnected, so
I always like to give respect to all that, so
thank you for bringing that up. But I was just thinking,
you know, before we really get the conversation started, can
you describe to our listeners for those who are able
to see this animal yet in their own lives, like
what does it look like?
Speaker 1 (03:25):
Where are they from? Will make some unique Yeah?
Speaker 4 (03:27):
Absolutely, you know, not a lot of people get the
chance to see one of these animals up close and
in person. And I think if you're familiar with domestic horses,
you probably have an image in your mind of you know,
really tall, sleek, dark, different color variations. The I'll call
them pea horse. Okay, I'm their care specialists, so they
(03:51):
give me.
Speaker 1 (03:51):
A little bit of.
Speaker 4 (03:56):
Amanda. Yeah, but yes, they look a little bit different.
They they are quite a bit shorter, so big size difference.
They typically like max out around seven hundred pounds or
a little bit heavier. But they're stout, stocky, really thick neck,
very spiky, short mane exactly, and they lack a forelock
(04:19):
like other wild types of equid zebras donkeys domestic horses.
They have that kind of like a long bang and
the front fore lock. And you'll notice that the pea
horses behind me, they don't have that, just a really
short spiky mane. Their coloration's very uniform, so it's called
a dune coloration. This kind of like a washed out
(04:42):
chestnut light color. It's so beautiful, with a big black
dorsal stripe down their back and dark mane tail legs.
One thing that you'll notice they have water known as
spider markings. So these are also AFRA to as primitive markings,
but they are things like that dorsal stripe, the fact
(05:05):
that you would see in a more wild species stripes
on their legs, little bands on their legs like a zebra.
And what's really special is that some of the members
of our herd behind me have these shoulder patches that
are genetic and they're passed down within their families. So
you'll notice that in our three females behind us, their
(05:27):
shoulder patches kind of look like the state of Florida before.
Isn't that so cool? And what's so interesting is that
viider markings are non symmetrical spots. They're kind of blatchy,
but they are symmetrical on both sides of their body.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
That's wild, really yes, like visual identifying us within the herd,
you think or do we know?
Speaker 4 (05:53):
I'm not sure. I do know that it's a specific
gene that is passed down from parents, and so we
have a family group behind us. We have Nikki is
the oldest, the matriarch, she's twenty one years old, her
daughter Gal who's almost sweet sixteen, and then Gal's daughter
(06:14):
and Nikki's granddaughter, Galan, who's two years old, and they
all have.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
I love that. That's awesome. It's funny.
Speaker 3 (06:24):
It reminds you like I tend to when I'm not
paying attention, watch TV a little to.
Speaker 1 (06:27):
My right, to the side of my eye.
Speaker 3 (06:28):
And then one day I noticed my cousins all of
us doing the same thing, and they're really weird to
be out.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
But it speaks to genetics, right, Yes, it.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
All comes back to genetics totally.
Speaker 3 (06:39):
Rather but also like they referred to as like the
only wild horse, what does that mean?
Speaker 1 (06:43):
What's that about?
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Yeah, that's a great question and pretty confusing. So obviously
they differ to domestic horses in their physical appearance, their temperament,
but also their genetics.
Speaker 2 (06:54):
Yeah, we heard about that when we were talking to
all Yeah, he was staying there right.
Speaker 3 (06:58):
Sixty sixty six I think, yeah, I remember, right, right,
and sixty four for domestic exactly.
Speaker 4 (07:03):
And so what that means is that they are so
distantly related to domestic hourses we think that they probably
diverged from them between like one hundred and sixty thousand
years ago to you know, maybe like eighty thousand years ago,
somewhere in that window. And the reason that we know
that they're not the ancestor to domestic courses and vice
(07:25):
versa is because they have a different number of chromosomes,
and that's just gonna happen.
Speaker 2 (07:29):
So the shared ancestor somewhere back there, deep deep in
the history of the planet, the shared answers, they.
Speaker 4 (07:35):
Diverged and they've been separate for a long time.
Speaker 2 (07:37):
Well yeah, yeah, And I remember reading too that some
people might feel, what about the wild horses that run
the mustangs here in the US, But they're all basically
at one point where domestic horses that got out and
learned to live on their own in the wild. So
they aren't a true wild species that's native there. They
were actually brought in from the European domestic species eons
ago or whenever it was.
Speaker 3 (07:58):
And I was regretting about then sometimes they even have
to set so many flee these animals, so they're not
technically a native species of the US.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
So something to think about.
Speaker 3 (08:06):
But the pea horse is right from that beautiful area,
really habitat, wouldn't you say, Like, yeah, can you describe it.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
For a little.
Speaker 4 (08:13):
So they're from the Eurasian step, the Mongolian step, which
is like a high elevation grasslands, and it can be
really harsh conditions at times, so it gets really hot
during the summer times. It gets really hot here and
then very cold. And as a result of these like
(08:34):
high temperature extremes, the environment there goes through a lot
of changes and it can be difficult to find food.
So the pea horses are a little bit more adaptable
than a domestic horse and what they'll be able to eat.
So they will primarily graze as you're seeing, but they
also do a little bit of browsing the little forbs
(08:54):
and plants well during different seasons.
Speaker 1 (08:57):
Like whatever you can get right, because it changes so much, Yes,
water to.
Speaker 4 (09:01):
Water that is I'm so glad you brought that up,
because that's kind of like the limiting factor for.
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yeah, vallid point right, Yeah.
Speaker 4 (09:15):
And so what's interesting about them is, I know we
haven't really gone to but when they went extinct in
the wild, the last remaining free living pea horses in
the late nineteen sixties were pushed so far out of
the step into the Gobi Desert, and that is where
the last pea horses were when they went extinct in
(09:36):
the wild.
Speaker 3 (09:36):
More of an extreme when you think about it, just
to avoid human conflict and.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
Land aggregation, competition, hunting, and predation from wolves, I mean, I.
Speaker 1 (09:47):
Mean natural, right, but then you throw in all the
human aspect.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Yeah, so I think it's worth I mean you since
you mentioned it, let's bring it up. This species has
done well with the assistance of zoos and the assistance
of our friends of the Frozen Zoo most recently, right,
But that is because there was a point in the
late sixties early seventies they were actually extinct.
Speaker 1 (10:08):
In the wild.
Speaker 4 (10:09):
Yes, yeah, completely extirpated from the wild. And it's one
of these really incredible stories and huge source of pride
for everyone who works and managed care and sciences. There
was very small group of just over a dozen pew
horses in European zoos and because of that small population,
(10:31):
that was carefully managed by pairing certain individuals and keeping
a really diverse group of genes in the animals that
they did have. They built up the population. They worked
to make sure there was a space for them to
go back to, because that's a huge part of conservation.
You have to address the issues that took them out.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
I mean, we always say, like, we would love, as
people in a zoo setting to be out of a job,
right if all these animals could thrive in these beautiful
native habitat. But it's sad to say that that's not
the case for so many species too. So really good
that we have these breeding programs under human care to
help out all these species.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
I just can't imagine being in that time period of
the late sixties early seventies, being in animal care, being
either in the zoo world or qology or biology, and
recognizing that this species is now gone from the wild,
and they kind of looking around, going, wait a minute,
there's some in the zoos there in Europe, and there's
some in the zoos in America. There's some way we
got so they're not gone gone. We have a chance,
(11:32):
you know. And then they started the process which you
Manna mentioned, which is that being very selected with the
breeding process and all of that. And doctor Oliver Ryder
mentioned that in our interview with him last season. How
even with that though, it did create sort of this
genetic challenge with the population. Now since that time, since
being extinct in the wild, they have been reintroduced back
into a safe space and they went from being listed
(11:56):
as extinct in the wild to oh yeah, we were talking.
Speaker 4 (11:59):
About they went from being extinct in the world to
repatriated in certain areas of Mongolia, whose Dai National Park
is kind of their stronghold where a lot of those
zoo born Prezovski horses, eighty four of them were airlifted
dropped into the park.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
Oh yeah, not that visual. Yeah, no, kids, we cannot
drop horses.
Speaker 4 (12:28):
Yeah, they were delivered carefully into the park. And what's
so great is that the reverence the Mongolian people have
for animals. Horses are very important to the history horses, yes,
and the TALKI the pea horses, and so they were
very on board for having this special space designated for
(12:51):
the pea horses. And so now we've talked about like
downlisting classification, which there are so few animals that were
privileged enough to say, like, because of human efforts and
actions and mitigation, they've gone from extinct in the wild
to critically endangered to now endangered. So it's trending, trending
(13:14):
the right directions so much, and we're so happy to
be a part of it.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
And with that, I think this is such an important
part of the story for this species, but other species
as well, And I want people to understand who are
watching or listening that it was a late sixties, early
seventies they were extinct and now here we are fifty
sixty years later, and it's weird to say only endangered,
but to go from critically endangered to endangered. This trend
(13:37):
is showing us that conservation is a long game. It's
a long process. It does work. But with that, even
while it is working and we're slowly seeing them come
down off that excruciating and painfulness to see animals on,
it doesn't mean we stop doing the work. And that
brings us back then into our conversation with doctor Rider
and Merrily's Holker, curator of the Frozen Zoo, how the
(13:58):
genetics a certain animal that have been saved from fifty
sixty more years ago can now be such an important part.
So just to touch on real quick, not part of
this herd, but elsewhere in the fire park, we have
two males that are cloned from an individual whose genes
did not exist until they were born, so his genetics
weren't in the population on the planet yet like fifty
(14:20):
years ago, it was right, It was right when he
passed away, and they saved his genetics. Now thanks to
the Frozen Zoo, they can help diversify those genes of
the hurt that we have here in the US or
anywhere Elselse boys might go. And it's so important to
understand the tie between the science we talked about in
our last episode and the conservation work that people have
done in zoo's and to see that now the Taki being,
(14:42):
although still endangered, trending in the right direction because we
have a better understanding about these animals went extinct due
to human behavior and then human behavior can bring them
back and change that. I think it's so important. I
really appreciate that part of the story here of these.
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Sources now, I love it, and it runs them like community, right.
It takes a village, it takes out of the community,
it takes our.
Speaker 1 (14:59):
Science seems to amazing.
Speaker 3 (15:00):
Kudos to the science team, but also mad props to
a wildlife care specialists. You are out here, you are sweating,
you're taking care of all these habits ads. But you know,
I remember, I love coming home sweaty and stinky, and
you know, knowing that I did really, really good work.
Speaker 1 (15:14):
So again, big big kudahs all the stuff that you're doing.
Speaker 3 (15:17):
It's like, what like over one hundred and sixty right, baby,
two horses have been born at the Zoo and Safari Park.
Speaker 4 (15:22):
Yes, yeah, And I love what you said. It takes
a whole world does One thing I wanted to mention is,
and you guys have talked about our work has never done.
We're still doing all of this stuff. We're still managing
the stud books and making sure it's a diverse population. Nikki,
our oldest female here is from Zurich. She came to
(15:44):
us all the way from Zurich, and so that's kind
of an interesting thing to think about, how we're still
working all over the planet to make sure that this
population is demographically stable, genetically diverse. But yeah, I'm just
so honored to be a part of it. I love
working with these horses. We've had over one hundred and
(16:05):
sixty folds. We're very hopeful to have a couple more
this year, so check back with us. But we've had
them in a breeding situation, and so yes, we're excited
to see our herd grow again.
Speaker 1 (16:22):
I got distract the demand move.
Speaker 3 (16:23):
I thought one of the people was just really close
to but you were telling me that wicked personalities.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
But they're also a little feisty.
Speaker 3 (16:30):
But you gotta be feisty if you're a taki or
a pea horse, right. Can you talk a little bit
about like their social dynamics not in the wild, how
do they go about?
Speaker 1 (16:38):
Are they alone or are they social?
Speaker 2 (16:39):
Like?
Speaker 1 (16:39):
What's their tea? Tell me the absolutely.
Speaker 4 (16:41):
I'd love to spell. Okay, So in the wild, they
would be found in sort of like small nomadic groupings,
typically comprised of like a group of mayors, group of females.
Speaker 1 (16:52):
Kind of like what we're saying, yes.
Speaker 4 (16:53):
They're offspring, and then maybe one stallion like the leader
of the hair on their call. And then separate from
that there are small bachelor groups. So we have that
exact situation happening.
Speaker 3 (17:06):
Point out, like you're doing exactly what their social dynamics
would be doing out in the wild, which.
Speaker 1 (17:10):
Is really cool.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
And so that's the best way for us to set
them up for success and to help our younger males
learn how to become stallions and grow up in a
place that is safe for them to goof around and
get big and strong.
Speaker 3 (17:24):
I mean, they got to fight a little bit, right
because they got it prepared to around. See what just happening,
you guys, I'm always waiting, joke, A man is shaking
your head.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
Now, that was pretty good. Give me some talking. That
was solid, all right.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
I really think it's important to what you guys have
talked about in the sense of just reiterating. A lot
of times, I think the general public we've been misled
to believe that, oh, you put a male and female
together and you get a family, and you make more
that way, and you just keeping together and they're fine.
Where it's that understanding the natural behavior that we need
those boys to be separate for a little bit. Those
young guys need to learn from the older guys how
to be stallion because it's important for the dynamic of
(18:02):
the entire species of the herd of how they're going
to interact. So often at zoos here at fire Park's
a great example. You have a heard of females, and
you might go, why only females, how can you make more? Well,
the boys are often a separate bachelor heard somewhere because
they only there might be only certain times a year
that they're actually come together as a whole group. So
it's a great way to remind people, so say our
young listeners that it's about observing the behaviors to understand
(18:26):
what they need instead of just assuming we know what
they need and then working with them constantly, working with
them as a wildlifecare specialist, not just coming up to
feed and clean, but really understanding every little bit of
their behavior, the group behavior as well, and how that
social structure is so important to each species.
Speaker 4 (18:41):
Yeah, and they have, even within these smaller group beings,
a very complex hierarchy of dominance, and so that's something
that we have to take into account. So with domestic courses,
they certainly have usually bigger groups of horses, like either
wild mustangs or when people have them at a ranch,
(19:02):
it's usually like a bigger grouping of horses than you
might see with like this waw species, and those groupings
and dominant hierarchies are influenced by humans, you know. They
put those in place. Pea horses. They're duking it out
with them.
Speaker 1 (19:18):
They don't care what you do. We're going to take
care of this.
Speaker 4 (19:22):
And it's always changing. They're always as they age, as
they have babies, as animals move in, and as sources
and so. Another difference is they're much more physical, gregarious,
aggressive than a domestic words.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
That's normal, right, It's normal for them.
Speaker 4 (19:41):
That's how they are.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
It makes you think like condor sometimes and I see
people like there, I tell them like, oh, these who
have known each other for years, but then one just
turns around and just bites another one in the lag
or valley.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
But like that's just a condor being a condor, you know,
talk to each other and being tough on each other
like that helps strengthen the third. They've got to deal
with predators in the wild. You don't want somebody to
herd who can't handle those things. So we look at
that sometimes the outside is well that seems so mean
and so nu but it's how they have to survive.
It's what has gotten them to where they are today.
Speaker 1 (20:10):
It runs every episode with meerkats our first episode. You
know you stress right now, you stresses a lot of factors.
Speaker 3 (20:16):
You know, they are more individualistic, less social as we
would like to think, kind of run to the pea horses. Honestly,
earlier you were telling me managing a population like.
Speaker 1 (20:24):
There's a lot of things involved.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
You know, I'm a big fan of behavior and you
were telling me there's you also do some behavioral nuances,
shaping certain behaviors to help on their every day Yeah,
you speak a little bit about lately.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
So what's hard about managing herds and their everyday care
is that they want to be together. There heard it's
hard to get one to peel away in a way
that doesn't stress them out. And then the pew horses
are incredibly jealous of one another. So if I'm trying
to look at one female, a more dominant female is
(20:54):
going to come over and be like, I don't think
so this attention is for me.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
So we've had we've all had that one friend right about.
Speaker 4 (21:04):
Yeah, So we've had to be creative and we've looked
at how other groups of animals are managed and are
kind of similarly. We look to our friends over on
the elephant Wildlife Care Specialist team, and we were like, hey,
they have one person working with each elephant, and that's
important for groups of animals of strong prominence and hierarchy.
(21:28):
Let's try this here. And so we work with the
horses every day on training different behaviors that help us
to give them medical.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Care the way they.
Speaker 4 (21:42):
Can and it reduces their stress so much. They're very
willing to interact with us. They love attention. But it's
that shared language where we can understand, like, hey, you
specific gal or Balon or Nicktine, you're going to be
with me, Amanda best friend, your favorite.
Speaker 1 (22:02):
Care specialist, favorite human.
Speaker 4 (22:04):
Yeah, you're gonna be with me. I need you to
peel away from the group. We're gonna go over here.
I want you to turn left, turn right, face down
the middle, let me see your foot, those kind of things.
And they're like, oh, yeah, I understand, Yeah, all right,
and then that's it. It's so much better when we
can work together. It's better for them. It's a great
way to connect and build relationships. So we love that.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Oh that's amazing, you know. I love being able to
do that. And it's almost like a way of communicating
right to another species. So Coude is for that, that's
what it's amazing.
Speaker 4 (22:33):
It's cool.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
Yeah, since you were talking about the care side of
it and that I do know. We have a lot
of young listeners and families that listen to this podcast,
and it's always fun to ask our guests how did
you get into this? So we talk a lot just
now about the training as an example, so you have
to understand behavior and training. A lot of us learn
on the jobs and go to school for it. It
is work, it's hard labor, but it's also emotionally rewarding too.
(22:55):
How did you first step into the process of now
we're taking care of these amazing horses.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
No, right, it's pretty great. I from when I was
a little kid always wanted to work with animals.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 4 (23:07):
I grew up in Tom Springs area and I used
to come here when I was a little kid and
in high school and I was like, I want to
work here someday. How can I get here? It's my dream?
And so I went to college. I've got my degree
in zoology, my undergrad degree, and I've been working here
for fifteen years now. I've also gotten my master's in
(23:30):
zoology and I love hoofstock, animals with hoofs ungulates, pea
horses included. I've loved all the animals that I work with,
pea horses definitely high up there. So yeah, I just
I love the mission of what we're doing. I love
conservation science in the wild and I have been part
(23:51):
of many programs where we're working in tandem to try
to figure out how to best protect animals that are
in the wild, how we can connect our knowledge of
animals in human care. It's just such a great place
for doing that.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
I think so pretty much love this place. I'm a
little bit by it.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
And again you bring in from a zoology while that
you're a specialist perspective, the value and importance of that
working in collaboration across the world, across the nation, even
across the park at the Frozen Zoom, or like you
just mentioned too, going hey wait a minute, elephant care
team does this, we should try that, and being able
to apply that knowledge across and the words you use,
(24:30):
it takes the village, the words you use, it takes
the world. But it's so great to hear that and
have you discussed it in that way that really paints
it as Yes, my every day I work with all
these different entities because this is how we make a difference.
Speaker 1 (24:40):
Yeah, yeah, and I love you brought up your background.
Speaker 3 (24:43):
I just had a question on my Instagram about what
should my child in college be thinking about to become
a keeper or wildlife care specialist. You went through schooling.
I actually just gr up here, so I learned a
lot on the job. But for kids that are listening
right now, I think, honestly, in my opinion, you guys,
I don't know what you guys think, but I think
it's a trifecta.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
I think it's education, think it's experience.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
But also people kind of forget the networking aspect of
it all. You know, shake some hands, be a good
friendly human being, you know, and that gets you a
long way as well.
Speaker 4 (25:10):
I gotta say, yeah, there's no one path, and that's
what makes it great. Everyone has a That's why.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
It's always so great to ask a story. Everyone has a.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
Different that's awesome. Oct I was thinking another question that.
Speaker 3 (25:22):
I really love, like what's your absolute favorite talkie?
Speaker 1 (25:26):
Pea horse fact?
Speaker 3 (25:27):
Like something that you just love pulling out and knowing, Like,
did you guys know.
Speaker 1 (25:31):
That or did you already cover it maybe maybe maybe.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
You know, when you think of another new found.
Speaker 3 (25:36):
Were really good at editing too, so we can I mean,
you guys should know these things.
Speaker 4 (25:41):
You let me ask after Google. Okay, so the pea horses,
they are the only horse species that sheds out their
entire coat every year, so you won't ever.
Speaker 1 (25:53):
See That's what I was. I'm sure you listeners are
thinking the same thing. Okay, let's they shut.
Speaker 4 (26:06):
Out winter colda summer code. But then they also shut
out their tail and their main so there's a point where.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
The like their main list, their tail lists all leave
it once.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
It's not like a bird, it's not like a penguins.
It's not like a peng ghost.
Speaker 1 (26:21):
It would but no, I mean adaptably.
Speaker 3 (26:23):
It does make sense to me because you're an extreme climate,
so you can't just lose all this protection that you
have in extreme heat or extreme cold. Or the penguin
aspect was me thinking, you know, they got to swim,
but they have a short windows, so they're going to feathers,
get it colling, so we can survive. But that's really unique,
all these interesting adaptations I have for that's such an
extreme climate that they live in.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Yeah, wow, that's awesome. Yeah, thank you for that. That
was a really cool fact. I learned so much.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
Yeah, I thank you Amanda so much for taking the
time today and getting us out here in your truck
in with your friends to hang out and actually not
just talk about them, but see them and be in
the space where you care for them. So thank you
so much.
Speaker 4 (26:57):
Yeah for making the truck.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
That was great.
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Well, I got to say to one of those things, Marco,
where we talked about the swasks were talking. We talked
about them with doctor Ryder. We have talked about Frozen
Zoo and the importance of it, and then they come
out here and spend time in the field with these
three gorgeous horses to see it and then to be
able to talk to a man about how the shift
(27:27):
and changes occurred over the decades for the PA horse.
It's so I don't just it's like I can't wait
for it.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
Amazing and the connectivity to you again, like I said
it during the interview, you know, but from everyone from
scientists to a wildlife care team. So again, our visitors
that come every day writing kids have come over and.
Speaker 1 (27:46):
Get inspired all these amazing stories of conservation.
Speaker 3 (27:49):
You know, and I know I'm a bird gap of man,
I'm a big fan of these horses. I gotta say
it learns so much of the horse and what a
great place. I mean even at talking to me right now,
but they see a greater one who in Ryano with?
I mean, the Safari Park is so amazing. So get
your butts at the park is the point, right, You
want either want to.
Speaker 1 (28:08):
Come here and you're gonna have a really, really good time.
Speaker 3 (28:10):
Now, if I'm not mistaken them, my friend, I think
the next episode we're gonna stay here at.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
I'm sure you're disappointed we'll be staying here.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
I'm excited. But something unique is happening.
Speaker 2 (28:20):
Absolutely absolutely, and it's one of those things where we
get to celebrate a species that I think sometimes because
they're so populous in zoos, people might take them for
granted and we can take much of them, but they
do need a lot more attention in conservation. They're getting
it right. But it does coincide with the longest day
of the year. If you're in the northern hemisphere.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Oh yeah, yeah, I think.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
You might know what animal has its special day on
the longest day of the year.
Speaker 1 (28:41):
Let them figure it out, right, right, right, well.
Speaker 2 (28:43):
With that little teaser, Yeah you haven't already been sure
to subscribe and then tune in the next time we
talk about the animal who has a day dedicated to
it because it's the longest day of the year and
there's something about length involved with them species.
Speaker 1 (28:54):
Oh, I can't wait, and I'm mark away.
Speaker 2 (28:59):
And I'm ex Florence. Thanks for listening or in this
case watching. For more information about the San Diego Zoo
and San Diego Zoo Safari Park, go to SDZWA dot org.
Amazing Wildlife is a production of iHeartRadio. Our supervising producers
are Nikkia Swinton and Dylan Fagan, and our sound designers
are Sierra Spreen and Matt Russell. For more shows from iHeartRadio,
(29:23):
check out the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
listen to your favorite shows.
Hosts And Creators
Rick Schwartz
Marco Wendt
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