March 13, 2025 • 43 mins
Amy is fangirling over this week’s guest…the one and only Doc Mullins from Virgin River!
Tim Matheson talks behind the scenes secrets from Animal House, filming Virgin River, the projects he missed out on, Hollywood back in the day and his celebrity friendships.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:03):
Welcome everyone to another edition of Amy and TJ.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
We are very.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Excited about today's podcast. When our producer has asked us
if we would like to interview this particular person, this actor,
we both had an immediate and excited yes, of course,
but for very different reasons. I was very excited to
talk to mister Tim Matheson because I am a huge
(00:29):
Virgin Ripper fan. I have talked about it plenty of
times here on this podcast, and so I was like, Doc,
of course, do I want to talk to Vernon? I'm
so excited? And TJ said, Wooo, I'm excited.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
So you mean honor from Adam and my animal Howell's guy, that's.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
What you're talking about, so too, that's amazing. No, So,
Tim Matheson, we are so excited to have you here
on the podcast today because not only are you an
incredible actor, director, comedian, you're also an author. You have
a pretty new book that's been released, and you have
(01:10):
just seemingly done it all. But we are all excited,
for our various reasons to get to hear all about
your seven decades in Hollywood, which is just such an
impressive thing for anyone to have lasted in any industry,
let alone in Hollywood. So thank you for being here
with us, Tim, and tell us how you're doing.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Hi, Amy II, TJ. Thanks thanks for having me. Yeah,
I know I'm doing great, and it's actually it is
only six and a half decades, but I round that
up because it sounds it was a little smoother and funnier.
But you know, it's amazing to me that I've been
doing and what I've been doing that I love so much.
Since I'm twelve years old and basically I started in
(01:53):
Burbank where all the studios were located. I'm still working
in Burbank. So I'm like a small town kid made good.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
You know, if you will, what was your golden decade?
You said six and a half, But what point in
your career would you look at and say, this gap
of time is when I was really nailing it, really
hit my stride. Maybe it could be right now, how
are we know?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Well, I must say I'm extremely grateful and happy to
have matured to the golden age of seventy seven and
still being active in a top show at Netflix and
with a wonderful character and a great cast. And we're
(02:34):
going into our seventh season starting in about a month
and on Virgin River. But each each period, and I
noticed about like every five to seven years, I turned
a corner or a page and entered a new phase
of my career, either age wise or character wise or
(02:55):
something changed. And they've all been very rewarding in many ways,
and uh and and tricky and treacherous and insightful. So uh,
you know, I think perhaps one of my happiest periods
was working on The West Wing with Aaron Sorkin and
then amazing cast on that show. And it was at
(03:19):
a sort of a slow point in my career where
I was kind of getting a little older. I wasn't
playing the younger leading man parts, and you know, I
have the three kids and my my ex wife then
you know, my wife and I had I had to work.
So this wonderful show came along at that point and
revitalized my career. And that's the great thing about our
(03:39):
business is you'll do one thing and out of nowhere,
it'll just you know, recharge everybody to go, oh oh him,
oh my, gosh, oh will you let's get him? He's
oh my? Because that other people turn a page in
our business too, So you know, it comes and goes.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
You know, Tim, I'm I was just so inspired listening
to you. I just turned fifty two, and there are
so many people listening who feel like once you get
to a certain age, it's over. Or you can't keep
still climbing that mountain. You've gotta you gotta recognize that
it's time to slow down and go down into the valley.
But obviously those ups and downs happened throughout someone's career.
(04:21):
But to have been not just a working actor for
nearly seven decades, but to be a successful working actor
for all of those years. And I mean, honestly, I
feel like you're in your prime now just because the
show TJ has laughed, But I have connected with so
many other people are democratic, you know, right like you
(04:43):
like Virgin River too. You have you have kept me
well on the treadmill, so you know, it's been so
cold here in New York and in so many places
in the country these days, and I go on the
treadmill to or do my runs and Virgin River. I'm
done now. I can't wait for season seven. I know
you guys have just announced to a few of the
things we can expect, or at least some of the
(05:03):
cast members who are coming back. But it's just such
a warm, fuzzy feeling you get when you watch Virgin River.
Do you sit down and watch it? What do you
think about the show, because it is kind of a
departure from some of the other works you have left
for us to enjoy.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Well, I'm not one of those who sits and watches
the show. I mean I certainly did watch this. I
watch every episode once, and when I was directing the
first two years, I directed four episodes and have since
backed away from that because it was just it was
such a workload that it took away from the acting.
(05:42):
And they're directing, so now I can just focus on
the acting. But I will watch each episode once. But
and I try and keep my distance so I don't get,
you know, involved with ego and oh my, you know,
vanity and things like that. I just watch it as
a director, going, oh, you know, he meaning me, he
(06:02):
could have done this that way, he could he should
have done that. Oh he did that nicely. So I
try and keep myself objective about it. And but I
I I thoroughly enjoy the show. I think Alexander Breckenridge
and Martin Henderson who are our central characters and the
Ellen Jack, you know, is their romance that drives the show.
(06:24):
And is are there wonderful actors and just great to
work with and and and they're the anchor and the
heart of our show. So and I so enjoy them
and I enjoy working with them. And yeah, it's it's
a great it's a great thing for me. And and
(06:44):
it allows me the luxury of you know, we work
four to five months on our show and then I
have like five or six seven months of the rest
of the year where I can pursue other projects and
you know, produce and and and do other things like that.
So and write a book, you know. And so it's
(07:05):
it's a it's a win win for me.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah, it sounds awesome. And it's funny you mentioned And
of course I was explaining some of the show to
TJ Melan Jack, but I actually describe you as the
heart of the show. I just said that this morning.
What do you think of Doc and the character? Is
he fun to play? Is it hard to play someone?
Speaker 3 (07:24):
I mean, you're.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Grumpy and you're a little rough around the edges. I'm
talking about your character, of course, but you're you're kind
of a good guy. Isn't that a hard character to play?
Like a good wholesome guy. I've always heard from actors
that that's the toughest role.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Well, it is, and I think, you know, the one
of the things about him is Doc Vernon Mullins is
he's a man of the people and he wanted to
come to Virgin River to get away from Seattle where
he was ahead of a hospital or or the you know,
the division of the hospital, and to get back together,
(08:02):
to get back with the patients and be one on
one with patients, you know, I mean, I think in
modern medicine, medicine has become this sort of commercial industrial
thing where you've spend as little time with the patient
as you can. You have a nurse practitioner who assists
(08:23):
the doctor. Then you have a PA who assists the
nurse practitioner. So if you ever see the doctor as
rare and here's a man who is treating patients who
are his friends and family because they live in a
small town, you obviously run into him at dinner and
a breakfast in the coffee shop and while you're walking
down the street, and he knows if not everyone each
(08:47):
most everyone. He treats, so he has a special responsibility
to them. And I think it requires a certain kind
of honesty and trust that he needs to establish. And
and and that's rare, you know, I think, And and
I've done a lot of research about doctors and small
town doctors and doctors in remote areas, and you know,
(09:11):
and and we've done it once or twice on our
show where you have to treat animals too. You know,
a patiental call up to say, my horse is down,
I need your help. I can't get the vet. What doc,
can you come out here and you know and deliver
You'll deliver a foal or you'll you'll have a horse
with a twisted and testine. So one of the things
about you know, my thing is is I I love
(09:34):
to do research, So I I do as much research
constantly as I can.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
What kind of reactions are you getting walking down the
street these days on social media whatever, Because every woman
that is anywhere in my orbit you mentioned Virgin River
and they just go nuts, Well it's great.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
And that's that's pretty that's pretty actually accurate TJ. But
I mean, and it's a demographic thing too. And many
of the men who watch it and say yeah, my
wife grab me or my girlfriend grabb me, and we
went and I sat down. I really liked it, and
because I think it's it's in a world of tumult
and sort of chaos that we kind of live in now,
(10:15):
with COVID and politics and so many things that are
up in the air and the Internet and people on
Twitter and saying and doing crazy things. It's nice to
find a peaceful place to go on TV and and
just be at ease and at peace with yourself and
(10:36):
the people in the show. I think, you know, somebody
was we were talking recently about why was it so
revolutionary when they made The Godfather and and Chinatown, And
you know, back in the sixties and seventies that the
young filmmakers were rebelling against a very sort of status
(10:56):
quo and and and a very boring kind of complacency
that with politics and was life in America. But now
to rebel is to do something that is not outrageous,
it is not crazy and violent, and this is a
show that kind of does that. You know, It's just
(11:17):
it's people getting along with people, and you have problems,
and you'd learn how to work out for those problems.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yes, yes, you know what I just thought of what
I would equate Virgin River two. For me, it's comfort food.
It's like, you know, it's just this warm, amazing meal
and it can be a little spicy sometimes, but you
know what you're getting and you know in the end
you're gonna feel better after you ate it, like chicken
soup or something. But I just I was doing some
(11:42):
research on you. I did not realize that you started
your career on the show I grew up loving and
watching on reruns. But leave it to Beaver and talk
about comfort food, talk about that safe, warm, familial space.
I feel like you began there, and now look at
you on Virgin River. It's almost like bookends of then
(12:02):
a lot of wild, amazing pieces of art in between
that were funny and pushing the envelope with West Wing,
but it's kind of full circle. Would you say, oh, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
I think it's it is an old fashioned kind of show,
and I think that's a very sort of it's a
much needed kind of show nowadays. And what I've heard
is so funny is that all of the other streaming
channels we want our Virgin River. We want to you know,
we want to show like Virgin River, and it's like,
(12:33):
you know, what is that on in relation to that?
I mean, it's it's about people, eccentric people who have
come to this little town to get away from troubles
in their life, or a conflict in their life, or
you know, a fork in the road in their life
(12:54):
and have come here to try and recover and or
to be alone. And if they find a like group
of people around them that they sort of bond with
and can help them with their problems, you know. And
I think that's as a doctor, that's sort of why
he's there, because he's giving more than just like, oh,
(13:14):
you have tons of lightis go see the guy with
here and he'll take care of it her. You know.
It's more than that, And I love that aspect of it.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Well you have again, I was saying, just the reaction
that women have to the show. I don't know if
you heard a few minutes ago, there was a ding.
We're actually on my laptop doing this this zoom. That
ding was a text message that I got from a
lady by the name of Kelly Bensimone. If you don't know,
she's of Real Housewives fame. We told her a little
(13:45):
while ago we were interviewing you. She has called twice
and sent three text messages and that was one of
them because she's so excited. Ah, she just that reaction.
I mean, do you get some wild stuff just walking
down the street, Oh.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
You know people? Yes, I mean, and and they're always
very gracious, you know, it'll be just one of those
just somebody will just stick their head up to me
and say, you know, I don't want to bother you,
but I love your show. I just love your show
and I love what you do and and thank you
so much. I mean, it's just it's so endearing and
(14:24):
it's grateful and it's it's it's I feel like a
you know, a country Western star, you know, I feel
like and I wish I was, because it's that kind
of response to something that you do. It's heartfelt and
it's you know, and I mean, certainly Animal House in
the West Wing, but Animal House, I get a certain
kind of reaction, as you know, and it's raucous and
(14:48):
it's fun, and it's it's it's a whole other kind
of thing. So I've been fortunate in my career have
played many different characters and many different genres of film,
and it's you know, and this one is very special
in its own way.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
It's so funny because I don't know that I've ever
watched Animal House, and it's one of TJ's favorite movies.
He said we should buy it. He never likes to
rent or buy any movies because he says, we pay
for way too many streaming services, so why would we
do that? But he actually does greenlit purchasing Animal House
because I said, I have to watch it now. But
I think I'm going to be a little freaked out
(15:27):
just because I so know you and love you as Doc.
It's going to be so strange to see you. It's
like a party animal and a frat.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Doc grew up a lot since Animal House, so yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
I mean, listen, we all go through phases, and you know, Amy,
I think that I think you're enjoy Animal House because
it's sort of an early version of Doc. I mean,
he's a real nice guy and he has to be
a ladies man, and that was the trouble that got it,
you know, that he got into that cost him of
his marriage to Hope, you know, initially was to be
(16:01):
you know, he strayed from their their vows and that's
sort of a little bit of otter.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
I think, you know, that's you know, that's a good
way to look at it. I'm curious, just because we've
laughed just a few of our friends, have you heard
from celebrities or people who you would be surprised are
huge Virgin River fans? I'm curious, do you do you
hear back at all from people who are watching and
who is watching Virgin River specifically?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Well, you know Reba McIntyre, who's who's a friend of
mine and I did a movie with her. She's just
a wonderful woman. She she loves the show, and and
many in her circle respond to a lot of people
who are fond of country music, you know, tend to
gravitate towards the show. I'm trying to think Aaron Sorkin
(16:47):
mentioned it that he he and he enjoyed the show,
and but you know, and a lot of people in
the business. Off the top of my head, I'm trying
to remember, so, yeah, a lot of different people. But
it's it's it's sort of uniformly women, and it's just
(17:09):
there's a there's a certain level of and and in
many ways, you know, I like and it's it's like Mayberry,
you know, it's it's it. Maybe it's a little bit
more contemporary, but it's sort of like this small town
people go along and you know, and and it's kind
of amusing and it's kind of fun, and yet there's
a there's drama and like in real life, and but
(17:31):
people work their way through it.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, it's so funny. I'm so the demo. I like
country music too. So I'm a woman in my early fifties. Wow,
I just walked right into being completely basic.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
So a black man in his forties isn't necessarily the lame.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
But but Tim, but Tim TJ knew that I was
obsessed with this, and I was. I was running to
it on the treadmill. He hates the treadmill, so he
thought he would run to it. You had one episode
that you listened to.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
While running, Tim, I've never seen the show, but I've
listened to the show while I was running. And I
had no idea. The guy I liked was Doc because
you had a couple of lines something. I say this
all the time, Christ on a cracker, Christ on sale,
and your character has some line, I said, who's this guy?
(18:19):
I had no idea it was you, because I never
saw it, only listened to it.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Well, I must compliment both of you because what keeps
you guys so young is that you've run and you're active,
so I must applaud that. And you both look fantastic.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yes, And you've helped me tremendously running during the very
very cold months, so we appreciate that. I want to
talk a little bit about your book. You initially started out,
(18:56):
from what I read, you were trying to write a
book about kind of the making of Animal House, and
it turned into something much bigger than that. How did
that all come about?
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Well, you know, I was going to call it the
making of Animal House or some quote that my character
Otter had, and it ended up being called Dan Blad
to meet you. My seven decades in the Hollywood trenches.
But what I love the making of books, The making
of Casablanca, the making of the Wizard of Oz. A
woman named al Jean Harmitz wrote this book, The Making
(19:26):
of the Wizard of Oz, and she went through all
the archives at MGM and pulled all the files from
every department, makeup, air, wardrobe, costumes, camera, all these different
special effects casting and put together day by Day, how
the film was made, you know, and all the troubles
(19:47):
they went through and everything, And I wanted to do
that with Animal House because I felt that it was
it was a seminal event in comedy in American cinema
because it was a year after Saturday and Night Live started,
and Saturday Night Live was a revolutionary event in American
comedy because it was a it was a comedy for
(20:10):
young people by young people. Before that, it was just
a bunch of let's just I don't want to be dismissive,
but it was older Hollywood writers trying to excuse stuff
to younger audiences. But it was Doris Day and Rock
Hudson and it was like Bob Hopajek at least like
a movie I did. And they were either they were
tame kind of comedies because it was written by older people.
(20:33):
Animal House was a group of young people from the
National Lampoon who wrote this script. It started out as
Charlie Manson in high school. That's how crazy they were. Wow,
And the studio just went no, no, no, no, no
too soon and not an R rated film. You can't
do it in high school, you have to do in college.
So it evolved and one of the forces behind it
was Ivan Rightman. And Ivan was the producer and wanted
(20:57):
to direct this movie, but the studio would not led him.
And after John Landis came on and directed and who
was brilliant, the credit went to the director and the
writers and nobody even thinked Ivan, and Ivan was like, well,
what about me directing another picture? And they said, well,
if you ever find something you want to do, bring
(21:18):
it to us. But everybody else got a deal. So
Ivan and Harold raymis wrote a picture called Meatballs and
for Billy Murray. Bill Murray and Ivan went off and
couldn't even come to the premiere of Animal House because
he was shooting or he's waiting on the set to
see if Bill Murray was actually going to show up,
(21:39):
which he did and made Billy a star and made
Ivan a star director. And so everybody's dream came true
with Animal House, some a little quicker than others. You know.
It put me in a category of younger leading men
in Hollywood who could do comedy and got me away
from the kind of boring parts I was playing on TV.
And so it it was a dream come true. But
(22:01):
that's where it started, and then I produce. The publisher said, oh, no,
we want to know about Lucille Ball. And you worked
with Jackie Gleason, and you worked with Clint Eastwood and
Kurt Russell. Tell us about those things. So I started
filling in the you know, the stories, and they said, oh,
this is great, we want this too. And I didn't
just want to do sort of a lineal kind of
(22:21):
you know, and then I did this, and then I
did that, And so I was trying to recount what
I learned from each of these people. You know, especially
a lot of young people today don't know who Lucille
Ball was, and you know, so I wanted to recount
how hard she worked and how diligent she was, and
(22:41):
you know, which she came from vaudeville, and with the
lessons that I learned from her, and how gracious she
wasn't mentoring me and toughening me up. I mean, I
was a very sensitive, shy, seventeen eighteen year old kid
on yours mind and hours the movie I did with
her and Henry Fonda and Lucy loved my sensitivity and
(23:03):
my vulnerability. But basically she was trying to teach me,
you know, like there's a tough business kid. You better
man up and and and you know, you put on
your shoulder pads because because you're going to get hit,
you're going to get knocked down. How are you going
to get back up? That's what you got to figure out.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Did you figure that out at some point? How far
along how much along the way? Did you take a
big enough hit that you thought it might knock you
out of Hollywood?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
That's a great question, TJ. I mean you get hit
every week, I mean slowly. It's like auditioning just beats
you to death, you know, and you know you do
six seven auditions a week. But if you what I
learned from that, I learned in a little step. So
it was like I wasn't happy with this audition. I
(23:49):
didn't get it. I blame myself and just say, next time,
I'm going to learn the lines. I'm not going to
stand there with the pages in my hand, because how
can you act with pages in your hand. I'm gonna
give him my best shot, walk out the door, head
held high, and then if I don't get it, I
don't get it. You know. That's that's the name of
that tune. But I think you know if I look back,
(24:13):
there were moments, and there was a moment I turned down.
The things you turned down are always you know, kind
of memorable and and somewhat disappointing. But I turned down
Moonlighting because I was exhausted after doing a television series
and I wanted two weeks off and I couldn't get
(24:33):
two weeks off and do Moonlighting. I said, listen, I
just need a break. And you know, I think it
was a big lesson to me is that And and
Bruce Willis is incredible and you know, yeah, and he's
more blue collar than me, and he's the perfect guy
for that part. And it all works out for you know,
in the but it also allowed me, because I didn't
(24:54):
do that, I was to get into directing. So you know,
it's and I learned, I think slowly over the years
that one door closes, another opens, and you know, that's
sort of the way it goes. But yeah, there have
been a lot of shows that you know, I didn't
get and and I think one of the big ones
was was Indiana Jones. I mean I tested for Indiana
(25:17):
Jones and rad you do have to look, yeah, and
everybody into Hollywood tested for it. But and and George
Lucas invited me into his office the day after I tested.
He said, you know we're not We're going in a
different direction. You're just too young. You're too young. You
did the best test, but you're too young. And I
was great, you know, great to hear from him. I
(25:40):
wanted to play that part, but I knew I was
too young, but I just I gave him my best shot,
and so I walked away with, Okay, that's it.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Too young in terms of age, look or experience. How
old were you at the time I was.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Let me think I was probably thirty one, thirty two,
but you know, Harrison was thirty five or six, and
he looked he looked forty. He looks thirty five, you
know what I mean. And I looked twenty five. I
mean I was twenty nine when I did Animal House,
playing twenty wow.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
So I mean that's why you look the way you
look now.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
It looks like I did not know you were twenty nine. Whoa,
I didn't know that. Yeah. So I mean I was
one of those kids when I I mean, when I
was in high school, I looked like I was twelve,
and you know, I had the prettiest girl in school
that I kept hitting on and trying to, you know,
chat up and make jokes with was Janelle Penny And
(26:34):
she said, you know, you're so funny and you're so sweet.
I'd go out with you if you were six feet tall. Oh.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
I love that you still remember her name. Don't you
always remember the name of the girl you were or
the you know, the person you were in love with
but either rejected you or what like. You never forget
their names?
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Oh hello, Oh yeah, I'll never forget Janelle.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
What's the what's the best advice? You talk about all
the lessons you learned along the way and you write
about them. Is there one piece of advice that just
stuck with you that you would say was the best
advice you received?
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Well, I mean comically, Jackie Gleason said to me. He said,
always over tip, always over tip, because first off, they're
probably an actor. I mean he's thinking of New York
or LA and they're always an actor and they need
the help. So give me in there and give them
a break. And you're lucky and you're working and give
them a break. But he said, second, if you don't overtip,
and they know who you are, they're gonna say you're
(27:25):
a cheap prick, and then you know they're gonna get
a bad rep. So always overtip. I thought that was funny.
But the other thing I think is listen to your gut.
Because I got advice from managers, agents, accountants, you know,
business managers that I kind of went, oh, really, I
(27:49):
mean they were saying like, don't buy this house, or
don't do this job, or don't you know like they sold.
My agents told me don't audition for the West Wing
and because you two big an actor to have to audition.
And it was like I just learned after a few
kind of like bad advice situations from people who should
(28:12):
know better, that follow your gut. You know, just follow
your gut. It's not going to hurt anything. You know.
It's there's false pride about oh I'm too big to audition.
I you know, that's crazy. Just you know, if you
love doing what you do, do it in an audition.
Who cares, you know, or just get out there and
(28:32):
and do you and practice your craft.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
That's another one as well. West Wing. I watched that
from first episode until that finale and yes, coming out
as VP, that was you know what that was one
of if I go there, there's some kind of mix
in that character that's in between Animal House and in
between Doc Mullins. There's just a sharp, clean, just the
right guy. That was something about damn man, it's six
(28:57):
sixty plus years how great of a compliment. I'm Animal
House was a movie I remember as a kid, in
a movie I loved. Coming up. My daughter is twelve
years old and she knows who you are because she
knows Freak House from Jumanji. Yes, but to think that
(29:18):
that kind of career can take place, that my childhood
and my child's childhood has been impacted by your work, man,
all I can say is congratulations on that.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Thanks so much, Thanks so and shout out to your
twelve year old daughter. She's old enough to see Animal House.
Not too but many people come up to me and say,
mostly boys, who say my dad showed me Animal House
when I was nine or ten or twelve, and he said,
don't tell mom. But it's so many and you know,
(29:49):
it's it's not that it's an R rated film, but
I think because of situational certain things, but most of
them just goes right over the head of a child
and then get the slapstick comedy, they get the balushi,
they get you know, they get all that humor. Granted
that some of it is dated if you look at it.
(30:11):
I looked at it recently, and you know, it's sexists, certainly,
and but the Lampoon, the way the Lampoon got away
with it's sexism and racism. And oh and I'll tell
you a funny story about the racism and animal house.
The is by They say, you know, we shot in
nineteen seventy seven. It came out in seventy eight, but
(30:32):
what it was said in nineteen sixty two. So basically
what the Lampoon would say is, we know this is
racist and this is sexist, but we're not that way now.
This was back then. See well that's the way it
used to be. And then they'd make fun of it.
But the the you know, we had this band called
Otis Day and the Knights at the frat party, at
(30:53):
our toga party.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Playing you want to shout yes.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
You know, and and Boone thought that he was so
cool and he wanted you know, he thought these guys
loved him because he loved their music. And so we
go to this nightclub which is an all black nightclub
and all these privileged young white kids walk in and think,
oh my gosh, these guys. You know, he says, oh
this day they love us. And we walk in and
(31:17):
we look around and go, we're gonna die. You know,
this is not we are not we don't belong here.
And when the studio head saw that that scene in
the movie, he said, there's going to be rioting. The
black audience will riot and tear these these movies apart.
The movie shows apart, theaters apart. So we got to
(31:37):
cut this. And what they did was some of the
junior executives, Richard Pryor, the great great black comedian, was
under contracted Universe all at the time, and they can They asked, Richard,
would you look at this and say if this is offensive?
Do you find this sequence offensive? And Richard Pryor came
into the head of the studio and goes, you know,
(31:58):
white people are crazy. That's a funny scene. Lead that
in the movie. That's a funny scene. You know, yes, yes,
it's it's a bit racist, but that's funny, you know,
because you're making fun of the white people too, so
it's like it's okay, and its stayed in and it's
a very funny sequence, you know so, but thank you
Richard pryor God bless them, Tim.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
You still see that happening in comedy today, that that
sequence you talk about. They were so afraid to offend
that they didn't want to be funny, right? Is that
still a balance? We're trying to find how we gotten
better about it worse about it? Because I know some
comedians have really taken a lot of heat for some
things they've said on stage.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
I think you have to be really aware of what
is being said and what and be sensitive to how
you know, is it a stereot typical, ethnic, or sexist
or racist comment about a culture, or is it something
(33:12):
that is that everyone will enjoy. There's I just found Iglesias.
I think it's a Roberto Iglesias, Gambiel Iglesias. Do you
know a guy named Fluffy Kingmedian Canadian. I was just
God rest his soul. My my my wife's father in
(33:33):
law just passed and he was He's a Jewish Mexican
and his brothers were at the at the at the house.
Uh you know, they sit shiva for seven days and
every day people go over and visit the family and
and commiserate with them about their loss. And and the
two brothers were from Mexico and there and they were
(33:55):
was and and because I loved Isaac who passed away,
I was just I love these men because they were
so much like Isaac. And I felt like I was
with Isaac. And they said, oh, do you know Fluffy?
And I said, Fluffy, I don't know what's fluffy. They
pulled out their phone and they played a couple They
played Fluffy talking about how do you know different Latinos
(34:17):
from each other? Cubans are this way, you know, he said,
Puerto Ricans and Mexicans and Dominicans, you know, and you
can offend each of them differently if you call them
the other thing. You know, if you call them Mexican Cuban,
it's not gonna you know. So but he's very funny
and he can because he is Latino. He can make
(34:39):
fun of the Latino culture. I don't think I could
do that. I can't speak from his point of view.
So I think that, you know, I can make fun
of like white people, you know, I get like, you
know that way. I can read different cultures with Catholic
and Jewish and whatever I can. I can have fun
with that, but I think I have to stay in
my lane. I can't. I wouldn't true into anyone else's
(35:01):
culture or or because I'd be afraid that I don't
know enough.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
No, I think that's such a good point. We, you know,
as an interracial couple, have this conversation all the time.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
What can I say?
Speaker 1 (35:14):
What can he say? What can I laugh at you?
You know, it's just it's it's a it's a constant conversation,
even between two people who love each other.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
And Tim, I have to tell all the time, you
can say that joke at home? Do not say that?
Speaker 4 (35:31):
Right?
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Nobody's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
That's so I'll say him, I'll say, can I laugh
at that? Like as a white person? Am I allowed
to laugh at that? Like? I don't even know if
I can laugh. It's it's one of those uncomfortable things,
but comedy unites or it can divide.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
You're at the center and the locust of really what's
happening in our country? And in terms of just that
kind of you know, I don't even call it woke,
you know, it's just what can be said, what's funny?
I mean, you look old movies, and you see them
making fun of different ethnicities. You know. There was a
(36:07):
guy named Stepan Vetchett that was a black actor star
in minor roles back in the thirties and forties, you know,
and because he played a cliched version of a subservient
black character. And and that's not okay, you know. And
and there were other ethnicities that were made fun of,
(36:29):
and and and with women too, and certainly gay characters
were always made fun of. And but it's you know,
in an animal house, I think there were a couple
of there was a couple of lines right at the beginning,
you know, she's the two guys, you know, Flounder and
(36:50):
Pinto come into the party at the Delta House and
say and they said, where's Otter and and they said, oh,
he's upstairs with Boone and and then she looks at
him and says, oh, a couple of well known homosexuals,
you know. And those jokes just don't work today, you know.
I mean, but so there is some stuff that crosses
(37:11):
a line. And the Lampoon was well known for doing that.
And it was a cliche joke at the time that
guy has said to each other, you know, but we
just can't do that anymore. I think, you know, because
we've been educated, not because it is certainly as offensive,
but it's offensive to a whole culture of people that
(37:32):
have been disparaged for for a long long time and
finally have found the pride of their freedom to be
who they want to be.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
I mean, it's shocking if you go back and look
at even movies in the eighties where that you know,
and my daughters will watch you go, Mom, you guys
watched this, and it is amazing how far we've come.
But comedy has had to I mean, just march on
a very very fragile line, you know, and sometimes people
cross it, but.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
It's okay to you know, it's great when you see
it because now we can define it and you can say, look,
that's how people used to think about us. That's how
people used to relate to black or Italian or Latino
or you know or whatever, or homosexual or whatever. And
they are making fun of us. They're not laughing with us,
(38:24):
and they're making fun of us and that's not okay.
And I think from those old, those old movies, we
can see that and realize that, Okay, we've learned we've
grown and you know, things have changed.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
That's I was not expecting to have that conversation, but
it's been fascinating if you we actually knew though, you
have that brilliant mind and this book is so incredible,
so I cannot wait to dive into it. I also
cannot wait for season seven. I know you guys haven't
started shooting yet, but do you have Do you get
to look at the scripts ahead of time? Do you
know any of the plot lines that are coming up?
(38:58):
I know it was a cliffhanger at the end, and
I won't give it away if folks haven't caught up
yet finished streaming it yet.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
You got up to do when you're out running TJ.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Is there anything you know about or can tease ahead
for season seven Virgin River?
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Well, we've seen I think the first four shows so far,
and what we know is that, you know, my medical
practice has been challenged by the the hospital, uh and
in a neighboring town, and my my things that I
(39:39):
did to save a man's life are being questioned. So
there's a conflict in my life. And there's you know,
Charmaine I think is missing and.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Miss We don't know if the babies are in the nursery.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Yes, we don't, you know. And and uh, I think
that Mel and Jack are hoping to adopt a baby,
you know, yeah, and so I think those things are
going to continue.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
On all right, very so it's going to pick up
right where you left off.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Yeah, you will tell me the four fans of the show,
what is the question? You're a fan, you want to
know what? Like, what is the thing that's burning everybody
to know starting this up?
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Well, this coming season, everyone wants to know what happened
to Charmaine, what happened to her babies? And our Jack
and Mel at risk as well, because there's some evil
guy out there.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Who tim you know, the answer to any of those questions, no,
if you did was even admitted.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
We only get to we get I've seen four scripts
and that's the first basically two blocks that we shoot.
But we get it piecemealed to us. You know, I
know sort of the journey is going to be about
this and about that, and my character is gonna go.
But I don't know the end result. I don't know
(40:58):
where it's going to end.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Or dude, his medical licensees, medical practices all hanging in
the balance, which is the heart. We don't know where
Charminge is, but she had The father of her babies
is not a good guy, and he was upset that
he didn't have access to his kids and was threatening
everybody and missing. She didn't show up for Mel and
Jack's wedding where she was supposed to do Mell's hair.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
Watch the show. I know she.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
Did off or she didn't, We don't know.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
She just didn't show up to Mel's place to do
her hair for her wedding. How long she was missing
right now at the end of it was like about
twenty four hours.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Oh okay, she's not answering her phone. She's not.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
No, one knows, no but no. But there's like a
guy after her who, yes, who has threatened her?
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Uh? Where do you?
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Where do you actually shoot this? And Virgin River? That's
not a real place, is it. I need to do
my research, but I just.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Know it's a place in our hearts, in our minds.
It's u We shoot it in Vancouver, British Columbia. It's
proposed to be in northern California, in Humboldt County or
near Humboldt County. Yes, but it's and I think some
of it's shot there in terms of like drone shots
of that area we use. But yeah, we're we're we're
(42:14):
in Vancouver, British Columbia, which is extremely beautiful and it's
it's a sort of an extension of northern California. That's
where we place it.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Well it's the fifty first state now, right, So I
mean it should be easy.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
We were saying we were trying to get out of
here without anti politics, so we should go now.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Yeah, I don't think the Canadians were going to go
for that.
Speaker 4 (42:36):
Tim Matheson, it is such a pleasure. We so appreciate
your time today on the podcast. You are just someone
who is incredibly inspiring from your career just to I
don't know, I cannot wait to watch Animal House. I
can't wait to revisit and and learn about the earlier
Tim Matheson.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
But I.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Love doc and I love the show, and I'm so
excited that there's another season coming our way. So Tim,
thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Thank you, Amy TJ. Thank you very much. I love
speaking with you and I learned a whole bunch talking
to you, and thank you for sharing all that.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Regrets on everything.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Brother, Thank you
Welcome everyone to another edition of Amy and TJ.
Speaker 2 (00:07):
We are very.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Excited about today's podcast. When our producer has asked us
if we would like to interview this particular person, this actor,
we both had an immediate and excited yes, of course,
but for very different reasons. I was very excited to
talk to mister Tim Matheson because I am a huge
(00:29):
Virgin Ripper fan. I have talked about it plenty of
times here on this podcast, and so I was like, Doc,
of course, do I want to talk to Vernon? I'm
so excited? And TJ said, Wooo, I'm excited.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
So you mean honor from Adam and my animal Howell's guy, that's.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
What you're talking about, so too, that's amazing. No, So,
Tim Matheson, we are so excited to have you here
on the podcast today because not only are you an
incredible actor, director, comedian, you're also an author. You have
a pretty new book that's been released, and you have
(01:10):
just seemingly done it all. But we are all excited,
for our various reasons to get to hear all about
your seven decades in Hollywood, which is just such an
impressive thing for anyone to have lasted in any industry,
let alone in Hollywood. So thank you for being here
with us, Tim, and tell us how you're doing.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
Hi, Amy II, TJ. Thanks thanks for having me. Yeah,
I know I'm doing great, and it's actually it is
only six and a half decades, but I round that
up because it sounds it was a little smoother and funnier.
But you know, it's amazing to me that I've been
doing and what I've been doing that I love so much.
Since I'm twelve years old and basically I started in
(01:53):
Burbank where all the studios were located. I'm still working
in Burbank. So I'm like a small town kid made good.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
You know, if you will, what was your golden decade?
You said six and a half, But what point in
your career would you look at and say, this gap
of time is when I was really nailing it, really
hit my stride. Maybe it could be right now, how
are we know?
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Well, I must say I'm extremely grateful and happy to
have matured to the golden age of seventy seven and
still being active in a top show at Netflix and
with a wonderful character and a great cast. And we're
(02:34):
going into our seventh season starting in about a month
and on Virgin River. But each each period, and I
noticed about like every five to seven years, I turned
a corner or a page and entered a new phase
of my career, either age wise or character wise or
(02:55):
something changed. And they've all been very rewarding in many ways,
and uh and and tricky and treacherous and insightful. So uh,
you know, I think perhaps one of my happiest periods
was working on The West Wing with Aaron Sorkin and
then amazing cast on that show. And it was at
(03:19):
a sort of a slow point in my career where
I was kind of getting a little older. I wasn't
playing the younger leading man parts, and you know, I
have the three kids and my my ex wife then
you know, my wife and I had I had to work.
So this wonderful show came along at that point and
revitalized my career. And that's the great thing about our
(03:39):
business is you'll do one thing and out of nowhere,
it'll just you know, recharge everybody to go, oh oh him,
oh my, gosh, oh will you let's get him? He's
oh my? Because that other people turn a page in
our business too, So you know, it comes and goes.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
You know, Tim, I'm I was just so inspired listening
to you. I just turned fifty two, and there are
so many people listening who feel like once you get
to a certain age, it's over. Or you can't keep
still climbing that mountain. You've gotta you gotta recognize that
it's time to slow down and go down into the valley.
But obviously those ups and downs happened throughout someone's career.
(04:21):
But to have been not just a working actor for
nearly seven decades, but to be a successful working actor
for all of those years. And I mean, honestly, I
feel like you're in your prime now just because the
show TJ has laughed, But I have connected with so
many other people are democratic, you know, right like you
(04:43):
like Virgin River too. You have you have kept me
well on the treadmill, so you know, it's been so
cold here in New York and in so many places
in the country these days, and I go on the
treadmill to or do my runs and Virgin River. I'm
done now. I can't wait for season seven. I know
you guys have just announced to a few of the
things we can expect, or at least some of the
(05:03):
cast members who are coming back. But it's just such
a warm, fuzzy feeling you get when you watch Virgin River.
Do you sit down and watch it? What do you
think about the show, because it is kind of a
departure from some of the other works you have left
for us to enjoy.
Speaker 2 (05:19):
Well, I'm not one of those who sits and watches
the show. I mean I certainly did watch this. I
watch every episode once, and when I was directing the
first two years, I directed four episodes and have since
backed away from that because it was just it was
such a workload that it took away from the acting.
(05:42):
And they're directing, so now I can just focus on
the acting. But I will watch each episode once. But
and I try and keep my distance so I don't get,
you know, involved with ego and oh my, you know,
vanity and things like that. I just watch it as
a director, going, oh, you know, he meaning me, he
(06:02):
could have done this that way, he could he should
have done that. Oh he did that nicely. So I
try and keep myself objective about it. And but I
I I thoroughly enjoy the show. I think Alexander Breckenridge
and Martin Henderson who are our central characters and the
Ellen Jack, you know, is their romance that drives the show.
(06:24):
And is are there wonderful actors and just great to
work with and and and they're the anchor and the
heart of our show. So and I so enjoy them
and I enjoy working with them. And yeah, it's it's
a great it's a great thing for me. And and
(06:44):
it allows me the luxury of you know, we work
four to five months on our show and then I
have like five or six seven months of the rest
of the year where I can pursue other projects and
you know, produce and and and do other things like that.
So and write a book, you know. And so it's
(07:05):
it's a it's a win win for me.
Speaker 1 (07:08):
Yeah, it sounds awesome. And it's funny you mentioned And
of course I was explaining some of the show to
TJ Melan Jack, but I actually describe you as the
heart of the show. I just said that this morning.
What do you think of Doc and the character? Is
he fun to play? Is it hard to play someone?
Speaker 3 (07:24):
I mean, you're.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Grumpy and you're a little rough around the edges. I'm
talking about your character, of course, but you're you're kind
of a good guy. Isn't that a hard character to play?
Like a good wholesome guy. I've always heard from actors
that that's the toughest role.
Speaker 2 (07:38):
Well, it is, and I think, you know, the one
of the things about him is Doc Vernon Mullins is
he's a man of the people and he wanted to
come to Virgin River to get away from Seattle where
he was ahead of a hospital or or the you know,
the division of the hospital, and to get back together,
(08:02):
to get back with the patients and be one on
one with patients, you know, I mean, I think in
modern medicine, medicine has become this sort of commercial industrial
thing where you've spend as little time with the patient
as you can. You have a nurse practitioner who assists
(08:23):
the doctor. Then you have a PA who assists the
nurse practitioner. So if you ever see the doctor as
rare and here's a man who is treating patients who
are his friends and family because they live in a
small town, you obviously run into him at dinner and
a breakfast in the coffee shop and while you're walking
down the street, and he knows if not everyone each
(08:47):
most everyone. He treats, so he has a special responsibility
to them. And I think it requires a certain kind
of honesty and trust that he needs to establish. And
and and that's rare, you know, I think, And and
I've done a lot of research about doctors and small
town doctors and doctors in remote areas, and you know,
(09:11):
and and we've done it once or twice on our
show where you have to treat animals too. You know,
a patiental call up to say, my horse is down,
I need your help. I can't get the vet. What doc,
can you come out here and you know and deliver
You'll deliver a foal or you'll you'll have a horse
with a twisted and testine. So one of the things
about you know, my thing is is I I love
(09:34):
to do research, So I I do as much research
constantly as I can.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
What kind of reactions are you getting walking down the
street these days on social media whatever, Because every woman
that is anywhere in my orbit you mentioned Virgin River
and they just go nuts, Well it's great.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
And that's that's pretty that's pretty actually accurate TJ. But
I mean, and it's a demographic thing too. And many
of the men who watch it and say yeah, my
wife grab me or my girlfriend grabb me, and we
went and I sat down. I really liked it, and
because I think it's it's in a world of tumult
and sort of chaos that we kind of live in now,
(10:15):
with COVID and politics and so many things that are
up in the air and the Internet and people on
Twitter and saying and doing crazy things. It's nice to
find a peaceful place to go on TV and and
just be at ease and at peace with yourself and
(10:36):
the people in the show. I think, you know, somebody
was we were talking recently about why was it so
revolutionary when they made The Godfather and and Chinatown, And
you know, back in the sixties and seventies that the
young filmmakers were rebelling against a very sort of status
(10:56):
quo and and and a very boring kind of complacency
that with politics and was life in America. But now
to rebel is to do something that is not outrageous,
it is not crazy and violent, and this is a
show that kind of does that. You know, It's just
(11:17):
it's people getting along with people, and you have problems,
and you'd learn how to work out for those problems.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Yes, yes, you know what I just thought of what
I would equate Virgin River two. For me, it's comfort food.
It's like, you know, it's just this warm, amazing meal
and it can be a little spicy sometimes, but you
know what you're getting and you know in the end
you're gonna feel better after you ate it, like chicken
soup or something. But I just I was doing some
(11:42):
research on you. I did not realize that you started
your career on the show I grew up loving and
watching on reruns. But leave it to Beaver and talk
about comfort food, talk about that safe, warm, familial space.
I feel like you began there, and now look at
you on Virgin River. It's almost like bookends of then
(12:02):
a lot of wild, amazing pieces of art in between
that were funny and pushing the envelope with West Wing,
but it's kind of full circle. Would you say, oh, yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
I think it's it is an old fashioned kind of show,
and I think that's a very sort of it's a
much needed kind of show nowadays. And what I've heard
is so funny is that all of the other streaming
channels we want our Virgin River. We want to you know,
we want to show like Virgin River, and it's like,
(12:33):
you know, what is that on in relation to that?
I mean, it's it's about people, eccentric people who have
come to this little town to get away from troubles
in their life, or a conflict in their life, or
you know, a fork in the road in their life
(12:54):
and have come here to try and recover and or
to be alone. And if they find a like group
of people around them that they sort of bond with
and can help them with their problems, you know. And
I think that's as a doctor, that's sort of why
he's there, because he's giving more than just like, oh,
(13:14):
you have tons of lightis go see the guy with
here and he'll take care of it her. You know.
It's more than that, And I love that aspect of it.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Well you have again, I was saying, just the reaction
that women have to the show. I don't know if
you heard a few minutes ago, there was a ding.
We're actually on my laptop doing this this zoom. That
ding was a text message that I got from a
lady by the name of Kelly Bensimone. If you don't know,
she's of Real Housewives fame. We told her a little
(13:45):
while ago we were interviewing you. She has called twice
and sent three text messages and that was one of
them because she's so excited. Ah, she just that reaction.
I mean, do you get some wild stuff just walking
down the street, Oh.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
You know people? Yes, I mean, and and they're always
very gracious, you know, it'll be just one of those
just somebody will just stick their head up to me
and say, you know, I don't want to bother you,
but I love your show. I just love your show
and I love what you do and and thank you
so much. I mean, it's just it's so endearing and
(14:24):
it's grateful and it's it's it's I feel like a
you know, a country Western star, you know, I feel
like and I wish I was, because it's that kind
of response to something that you do. It's heartfelt and
it's you know, and I mean, certainly Animal House in
the West Wing, but Animal House, I get a certain
kind of reaction, as you know, and it's raucous and
(14:48):
it's fun, and it's it's it's a whole other kind
of thing. So I've been fortunate in my career have
played many different characters and many different genres of film,
and it's you know, and this one is very special
in its own way.
Speaker 1 (15:07):
It's so funny because I don't know that I've ever
watched Animal House, and it's one of TJ's favorite movies.
He said we should buy it. He never likes to
rent or buy any movies because he says, we pay
for way too many streaming services, so why would we
do that? But he actually does greenlit purchasing Animal House
because I said, I have to watch it now. But
I think I'm going to be a little freaked out
(15:27):
just because I so know you and love you as Doc.
It's going to be so strange to see you. It's
like a party animal and a frat.
Speaker 3 (15:35):
Doc grew up a lot since Animal House, so yeah.
Speaker 2 (15:38):
I mean, listen, we all go through phases, and you know, Amy,
I think that I think you're enjoy Animal House because
it's sort of an early version of Doc. I mean,
he's a real nice guy and he has to be
a ladies man, and that was the trouble that got it,
you know, that he got into that cost him of
his marriage to Hope, you know, initially was to be
(16:01):
you know, he strayed from their their vows and that's
sort of a little bit of otter.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
I think, you know, that's you know, that's a good
way to look at it. I'm curious, just because we've
laughed just a few of our friends, have you heard
from celebrities or people who you would be surprised are
huge Virgin River fans? I'm curious, do you do you
hear back at all from people who are watching and
who is watching Virgin River specifically?
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Well, you know Reba McIntyre, who's who's a friend of
mine and I did a movie with her. She's just
a wonderful woman. She she loves the show, and and
many in her circle respond to a lot of people
who are fond of country music, you know, tend to
gravitate towards the show. I'm trying to think Aaron Sorkin
(16:47):
mentioned it that he he and he enjoyed the show,
and but you know, and a lot of people in
the business. Off the top of my head, I'm trying
to remember, so, yeah, a lot of different people. But
it's it's it's sort of uniformly women, and it's just
(17:09):
there's a there's a certain level of and and in
many ways, you know, I like and it's it's like Mayberry,
you know, it's it's it. Maybe it's a little bit
more contemporary, but it's sort of like this small town
people go along and you know, and and it's kind
of amusing and it's kind of fun, and yet there's
a there's drama and like in real life, and but
(17:31):
people work their way through it.
Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, it's so funny. I'm so the demo. I like
country music too. So I'm a woman in my early fifties. Wow,
I just walked right into being completely basic.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
So a black man in his forties isn't necessarily the lame.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
But but Tim, but Tim TJ knew that I was
obsessed with this, and I was. I was running to
it on the treadmill. He hates the treadmill, so he
thought he would run to it. You had one episode
that you listened to.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
While running, Tim, I've never seen the show, but I've
listened to the show while I was running. And I
had no idea. The guy I liked was Doc because
you had a couple of lines something. I say this
all the time, Christ on a cracker, Christ on sale,
and your character has some line, I said, who's this guy?
(18:19):
I had no idea it was you, because I never
saw it, only listened to it.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
Well, I must compliment both of you because what keeps
you guys so young is that you've run and you're active,
so I must applaud that. And you both look fantastic.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
Oh, thank you.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Yes, And you've helped me tremendously running during the very
very cold months, so we appreciate that. I want to
talk a little bit about your book. You initially started out,
(18:56):
from what I read, you were trying to write a
book about kind of the making of Animal House, and
it turned into something much bigger than that. How did
that all come about?
Speaker 2 (19:05):
Well, you know, I was going to call it the
making of Animal House or some quote that my character
Otter had, and it ended up being called Dan Blad
to meet you. My seven decades in the Hollywood trenches.
But what I love the making of books, The making
of Casablanca, the making of the Wizard of Oz. A
woman named al Jean Harmitz wrote this book, The Making
(19:26):
of the Wizard of Oz, and she went through all
the archives at MGM and pulled all the files from
every department, makeup, air, wardrobe, costumes, camera, all these different
special effects casting and put together day by Day, how
the film was made, you know, and all the troubles
(19:47):
they went through and everything, And I wanted to do
that with Animal House because I felt that it was
it was a seminal event in comedy in American cinema
because it was a year after Saturday and Night Live started,
and Saturday Night Live was a revolutionary event in American
comedy because it was a it was a comedy for
(20:10):
young people by young people. Before that, it was just
a bunch of let's just I don't want to be dismissive,
but it was older Hollywood writers trying to excuse stuff
to younger audiences. But it was Doris Day and Rock
Hudson and it was like Bob Hopajek at least like
a movie I did. And they were either they were
tame kind of comedies because it was written by older people.
(20:33):
Animal House was a group of young people from the
National Lampoon who wrote this script. It started out as
Charlie Manson in high school. That's how crazy they were. Wow,
And the studio just went no, no, no, no, no
too soon and not an R rated film. You can't
do it in high school, you have to do in college.
So it evolved and one of the forces behind it
was Ivan Rightman. And Ivan was the producer and wanted
(20:57):
to direct this movie, but the studio would not led him.
And after John Landis came on and directed and who
was brilliant, the credit went to the director and the
writers and nobody even thinked Ivan, and Ivan was like, well,
what about me directing another picture? And they said, well,
if you ever find something you want to do, bring
(21:18):
it to us. But everybody else got a deal. So
Ivan and Harold raymis wrote a picture called Meatballs and
for Billy Murray. Bill Murray and Ivan went off and
couldn't even come to the premiere of Animal House because
he was shooting or he's waiting on the set to
see if Bill Murray was actually going to show up,
(21:39):
which he did and made Billy a star and made
Ivan a star director. And so everybody's dream came true
with Animal House, some a little quicker than others. You know.
It put me in a category of younger leading men
in Hollywood who could do comedy and got me away
from the kind of boring parts I was playing on TV.
And so it it was a dream come true. But
(22:01):
that's where it started, and then I produce. The publisher said, oh, no,
we want to know about Lucille Ball. And you worked
with Jackie Gleason, and you worked with Clint Eastwood and
Kurt Russell. Tell us about those things. So I started
filling in the you know, the stories, and they said, oh,
this is great, we want this too. And I didn't
just want to do sort of a lineal kind of
(22:21):
you know, and then I did this, and then I
did that, And so I was trying to recount what
I learned from each of these people. You know, especially
a lot of young people today don't know who Lucille
Ball was, and you know, so I wanted to recount
how hard she worked and how diligent she was, and
(22:41):
you know, which she came from vaudeville, and with the
lessons that I learned from her, and how gracious she
wasn't mentoring me and toughening me up. I mean, I
was a very sensitive, shy, seventeen eighteen year old kid
on yours mind and hours the movie I did with
her and Henry Fonda and Lucy loved my sensitivity and
(23:03):
my vulnerability. But basically she was trying to teach me,
you know, like there's a tough business kid. You better
man up and and and you know, you put on
your shoulder pads because because you're going to get hit,
you're going to get knocked down. How are you going
to get back up? That's what you got to figure out.
Speaker 3 (23:19):
Did you figure that out at some point? How far
along how much along the way? Did you take a
big enough hit that you thought it might knock you
out of Hollywood?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
That's a great question, TJ. I mean you get hit
every week, I mean slowly. It's like auditioning just beats
you to death, you know, and you know you do
six seven auditions a week. But if you what I
learned from that, I learned in a little step. So
it was like I wasn't happy with this audition. I
(23:49):
didn't get it. I blame myself and just say, next time,
I'm going to learn the lines. I'm not going to
stand there with the pages in my hand, because how
can you act with pages in your hand. I'm gonna
give him my best shot, walk out the door, head
held high, and then if I don't get it, I
don't get it. You know. That's that's the name of
that tune. But I think you know if I look back,
(24:13):
there were moments, and there was a moment I turned down.
The things you turned down are always you know, kind
of memorable and and somewhat disappointing. But I turned down
Moonlighting because I was exhausted after doing a television series
and I wanted two weeks off and I couldn't get
(24:33):
two weeks off and do Moonlighting. I said, listen, I
just need a break. And you know, I think it
was a big lesson to me is that And and
Bruce Willis is incredible and you know, yeah, and he's
more blue collar than me, and he's the perfect guy
for that part. And it all works out for you know,
in the but it also allowed me, because I didn't
(24:54):
do that, I was to get into directing. So you know,
it's and I learned, I think slowly over the years
that one door closes, another opens, and you know, that's
sort of the way it goes. But yeah, there have
been a lot of shows that you know, I didn't
get and and I think one of the big ones
was was Indiana Jones. I mean I tested for Indiana
(25:17):
Jones and rad you do have to look, yeah, and
everybody into Hollywood tested for it. But and and George
Lucas invited me into his office the day after I tested.
He said, you know we're not We're going in a
different direction. You're just too young. You're too young. You
did the best test, but you're too young. And I
was great, you know, great to hear from him. I
(25:40):
wanted to play that part, but I knew I was
too young, but I just I gave him my best shot,
and so I walked away with, Okay, that's it.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
Too young in terms of age, look or experience. How
old were you at the time I was.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
Let me think I was probably thirty one, thirty two,
but you know, Harrison was thirty five or six, and
he looked he looked forty. He looks thirty five, you
know what I mean. And I looked twenty five. I
mean I was twenty nine when I did Animal House,
playing twenty wow.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
So I mean that's why you look the way you
look now.
Speaker 2 (26:12):
It looks like I did not know you were twenty nine. Whoa,
I didn't know that. Yeah. So I mean I was
one of those kids when I I mean, when I
was in high school, I looked like I was twelve,
and you know, I had the prettiest girl in school
that I kept hitting on and trying to, you know,
chat up and make jokes with was Janelle Penny And
(26:34):
she said, you know, you're so funny and you're so sweet.
I'd go out with you if you were six feet tall. Oh.
Speaker 1 (26:40):
I love that you still remember her name. Don't you
always remember the name of the girl you were or
the you know, the person you were in love with
but either rejected you or what like. You never forget
their names?
Speaker 2 (26:50):
Oh hello, Oh yeah, I'll never forget Janelle.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
What's the what's the best advice? You talk about all
the lessons you learned along the way and you write
about them. Is there one piece of advice that just
stuck with you that you would say was the best
advice you received?
Speaker 2 (27:04):
Well, I mean comically, Jackie Gleason said to me. He said,
always over tip, always over tip, because first off, they're
probably an actor. I mean he's thinking of New York
or LA and they're always an actor and they need
the help. So give me in there and give them
a break. And you're lucky and you're working and give
them a break. But he said, second, if you don't overtip,
and they know who you are, they're gonna say you're
(27:25):
a cheap prick, and then you know they're gonna get
a bad rep. So always overtip. I thought that was funny.
But the other thing I think is listen to your gut.
Because I got advice from managers, agents, accountants, you know,
business managers that I kind of went, oh, really, I
(27:49):
mean they were saying like, don't buy this house, or
don't do this job, or don't you know like they sold.
My agents told me don't audition for the West Wing
and because you two big an actor to have to audition.
And it was like I just learned after a few
kind of like bad advice situations from people who should
(28:12):
know better, that follow your gut. You know, just follow
your gut. It's not going to hurt anything. You know.
It's there's false pride about oh I'm too big to audition.
I you know, that's crazy. Just you know, if you
love doing what you do, do it in an audition.
Who cares, you know, or just get out there and
(28:32):
and do you and practice your craft.
Speaker 3 (28:34):
That's another one as well. West Wing. I watched that
from first episode until that finale and yes, coming out
as VP, that was you know what that was one
of if I go there, there's some kind of mix
in that character that's in between Animal House and in
between Doc Mullins. There's just a sharp, clean, just the
right guy. That was something about damn man, it's six
(28:57):
sixty plus years how great of a compliment. I'm Animal
House was a movie I remember as a kid, in
a movie I loved. Coming up. My daughter is twelve
years old and she knows who you are because she
knows Freak House from Jumanji. Yes, but to think that
(29:18):
that kind of career can take place, that my childhood
and my child's childhood has been impacted by your work, man,
all I can say is congratulations on that.
Speaker 2 (29:28):
Thanks so much, Thanks so and shout out to your
twelve year old daughter. She's old enough to see Animal House.
Not too but many people come up to me and say,
mostly boys, who say my dad showed me Animal House
when I was nine or ten or twelve, and he said,
don't tell mom. But it's so many and you know,
(29:49):
it's it's not that it's an R rated film, but
I think because of situational certain things, but most of
them just goes right over the head of a child
and then get the slapstick comedy, they get the balushi,
they get you know, they get all that humor. Granted
that some of it is dated if you look at it.
(30:11):
I looked at it recently, and you know, it's sexists, certainly,
and but the Lampoon, the way the Lampoon got away
with it's sexism and racism. And oh and I'll tell
you a funny story about the racism and animal house.
The is by They say, you know, we shot in
nineteen seventy seven. It came out in seventy eight, but
(30:32):
what it was said in nineteen sixty two. So basically
what the Lampoon would say is, we know this is
racist and this is sexist, but we're not that way now.
This was back then. See well that's the way it
used to be. And then they'd make fun of it.
But the the you know, we had this band called
Otis Day and the Knights at the frat party, at
(30:53):
our toga party.
Speaker 3 (30:54):
Playing you want to shout yes.
Speaker 2 (30:57):
You know, and and Boone thought that he was so
cool and he wanted you know, he thought these guys
loved him because he loved their music. And so we
go to this nightclub which is an all black nightclub
and all these privileged young white kids walk in and think,
oh my gosh, these guys. You know, he says, oh
this day they love us. And we walk in and
(31:17):
we look around and go, we're gonna die. You know,
this is not we are not we don't belong here.
And when the studio head saw that that scene in
the movie, he said, there's going to be rioting. The
black audience will riot and tear these these movies apart.
The movie shows apart, theaters apart. So we got to
(31:37):
cut this. And what they did was some of the
junior executives, Richard Pryor, the great great black comedian, was
under contracted Universe all at the time, and they can They asked, Richard,
would you look at this and say if this is offensive?
Do you find this sequence offensive? And Richard Pryor came
into the head of the studio and goes, you know,
(31:58):
white people are crazy. That's a funny scene. Lead that
in the movie. That's a funny scene. You know, yes, yes,
it's it's a bit racist, but that's funny, you know,
because you're making fun of the white people too, so
it's like it's okay, and its stayed in and it's
a very funny sequence, you know so, but thank you
Richard pryor God bless them, Tim.
Speaker 3 (32:29):
You still see that happening in comedy today, that that
sequence you talk about. They were so afraid to offend
that they didn't want to be funny, right? Is that
still a balance? We're trying to find how we gotten
better about it worse about it? Because I know some
comedians have really taken a lot of heat for some
things they've said on stage.
Speaker 2 (32:47):
I think you have to be really aware of what
is being said and what and be sensitive to how
you know, is it a stereot typical, ethnic, or sexist
or racist comment about a culture, or is it something
(33:12):
that is that everyone will enjoy. There's I just found Iglesias.
I think it's a Roberto Iglesias, Gambiel Iglesias. Do you
know a guy named Fluffy Kingmedian Canadian. I was just
God rest his soul. My my my wife's father in
(33:33):
law just passed and he was He's a Jewish Mexican
and his brothers were at the at the at the house.
Uh you know, they sit shiva for seven days and
every day people go over and visit the family and
and commiserate with them about their loss. And and the
two brothers were from Mexico and there and they were
(33:55):
was and and because I loved Isaac who passed away,
I was just I love these men because they were
so much like Isaac. And I felt like I was
with Isaac. And they said, oh, do you know Fluffy?
And I said, Fluffy, I don't know what's fluffy. They
pulled out their phone and they played a couple They
played Fluffy talking about how do you know different Latinos
(34:17):
from each other? Cubans are this way, you know, he said,
Puerto Ricans and Mexicans and Dominicans, you know, and you
can offend each of them differently if you call them
the other thing. You know, if you call them Mexican Cuban,
it's not gonna you know. So but he's very funny
and he can because he is Latino. He can make
(34:39):
fun of the Latino culture. I don't think I could
do that. I can't speak from his point of view.
So I think that, you know, I can make fun
of like white people, you know, I get like, you
know that way. I can read different cultures with Catholic
and Jewish and whatever I can. I can have fun
with that, but I think I have to stay in
my lane. I can't. I wouldn't true into anyone else's
(35:01):
culture or or because I'd be afraid that I don't
know enough.
Speaker 1 (35:07):
No, I think that's such a good point. We, you know,
as an interracial couple, have this conversation all the time.
Speaker 3 (35:13):
What can I say?
Speaker 1 (35:14):
What can he say? What can I laugh at you?
You know, it's just it's it's a it's a constant conversation,
even between two people who love each other.
Speaker 3 (35:22):
And Tim, I have to tell all the time, you
can say that joke at home? Do not say that?
Speaker 4 (35:31):
Right?
Speaker 2 (35:32):
Nobody's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (35:34):
That's so I'll say him, I'll say, can I laugh
at that? Like as a white person? Am I allowed
to laugh at that? Like? I don't even know if
I can laugh. It's it's one of those uncomfortable things,
but comedy unites or it can divide.
Speaker 2 (35:46):
You're at the center and the locust of really what's
happening in our country? And in terms of just that
kind of you know, I don't even call it woke,
you know, it's just what can be said, what's funny?
I mean, you look old movies, and you see them
making fun of different ethnicities. You know. There was a
(36:07):
guy named Stepan Vetchett that was a black actor star
in minor roles back in the thirties and forties, you know,
and because he played a cliched version of a subservient
black character. And and that's not okay, you know. And
and there were other ethnicities that were made fun of,
(36:29):
and and and with women too, and certainly gay characters
were always made fun of. And but it's you know,
in an animal house, I think there were a couple
of there was a couple of lines right at the beginning,
you know, she's the two guys, you know, Flounder and
(36:50):
Pinto come into the party at the Delta House and
say and they said, where's Otter and and they said, oh,
he's upstairs with Boone and and then she looks at
him and says, oh, a couple of well known homosexuals,
you know. And those jokes just don't work today, you know.
I mean, but so there is some stuff that crosses
(37:11):
a line. And the Lampoon was well known for doing that.
And it was a cliche joke at the time that
guy has said to each other, you know, but we
just can't do that anymore. I think, you know, because
we've been educated, not because it is certainly as offensive,
but it's offensive to a whole culture of people that
(37:32):
have been disparaged for for a long long time and
finally have found the pride of their freedom to be
who they want to be.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
I mean, it's shocking if you go back and look
at even movies in the eighties where that you know,
and my daughters will watch you go, Mom, you guys
watched this, and it is amazing how far we've come.
But comedy has had to I mean, just march on
a very very fragile line, you know, and sometimes people
cross it, but.
Speaker 2 (38:04):
It's okay to you know, it's great when you see
it because now we can define it and you can say, look,
that's how people used to think about us. That's how
people used to relate to black or Italian or Latino
or you know or whatever, or homosexual or whatever. And
they are making fun of us. They're not laughing with us,
(38:24):
and they're making fun of us and that's not okay.
And I think from those old, those old movies, we
can see that and realize that, Okay, we've learned we've
grown and you know, things have changed.
Speaker 1 (38:37):
That's I was not expecting to have that conversation, but
it's been fascinating if you we actually knew though, you
have that brilliant mind and this book is so incredible,
so I cannot wait to dive into it. I also
cannot wait for season seven. I know you guys haven't
started shooting yet, but do you have Do you get
to look at the scripts ahead of time? Do you
know any of the plot lines that are coming up?
(38:58):
I know it was a cliffhanger at the end, and
I won't give it away if folks haven't caught up
yet finished streaming it yet.
Speaker 2 (39:05):
You got up to do when you're out running TJ.
Speaker 1 (39:08):
Is there anything you know about or can tease ahead
for season seven Virgin River?
Speaker 2 (39:14):
Well, we've seen I think the first four shows so far,
and what we know is that, you know, my medical
practice has been challenged by the the hospital, uh and
in a neighboring town, and my my things that I
(39:39):
did to save a man's life are being questioned. So
there's a conflict in my life. And there's you know,
Charmaine I think is missing and.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
Miss We don't know if the babies are in the nursery.
Speaker 2 (39:52):
Yes, we don't, you know. And and uh, I think
that Mel and Jack are hoping to adopt a baby,
you know, yeah, and so I think those things are
going to continue.
Speaker 1 (40:04):
On all right, very so it's going to pick up
right where you left off.
Speaker 3 (40:08):
Yeah, you will tell me the four fans of the show,
what is the question? You're a fan, you want to
know what? Like, what is the thing that's burning everybody
to know starting this up?
Speaker 1 (40:18):
Well, this coming season, everyone wants to know what happened
to Charmaine, what happened to her babies? And our Jack
and Mel at risk as well, because there's some evil
guy out there.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Who tim you know, the answer to any of those questions, no,
if you did was even admitted.
Speaker 2 (40:38):
We only get to we get I've seen four scripts
and that's the first basically two blocks that we shoot.
But we get it piecemealed to us. You know, I
know sort of the journey is going to be about
this and about that, and my character is gonna go.
But I don't know the end result. I don't know
(40:58):
where it's going to end.
Speaker 1 (40:59):
Or dude, his medical licensees, medical practices all hanging in
the balance, which is the heart. We don't know where
Charminge is, but she had The father of her babies
is not a good guy, and he was upset that
he didn't have access to his kids and was threatening
everybody and missing. She didn't show up for Mel and
Jack's wedding where she was supposed to do Mell's hair.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
Watch the show. I know she.
Speaker 3 (41:24):
Did off or she didn't, We don't know.
Speaker 1 (41:26):
She just didn't show up to Mel's place to do
her hair for her wedding. How long she was missing
right now at the end of it was like about
twenty four hours.
Speaker 2 (41:34):
Oh okay, she's not answering her phone. She's not.
Speaker 1 (41:38):
No, one knows, no but no. But there's like a
guy after her who, yes, who has threatened her?
Speaker 2 (41:43):
Uh? Where do you?
Speaker 1 (41:46):
Where do you actually shoot this? And Virgin River? That's
not a real place, is it. I need to do
my research, but I just.
Speaker 2 (41:51):
Know it's a place in our hearts, in our minds.
It's u We shoot it in Vancouver, British Columbia. It's
proposed to be in northern California, in Humboldt County or
near Humboldt County. Yes, but it's and I think some
of it's shot there in terms of like drone shots
of that area we use. But yeah, we're we're we're
(42:14):
in Vancouver, British Columbia, which is extremely beautiful and it's
it's a sort of an extension of northern California. That's
where we place it.
Speaker 1 (42:21):
Well it's the fifty first state now, right, So I
mean it should be easy.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
We were saying we were trying to get out of
here without anti politics, so we should go now.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
Yeah, I don't think the Canadians were going to go
for that.
Speaker 4 (42:36):
Tim Matheson, it is such a pleasure. We so appreciate
your time today on the podcast. You are just someone
who is incredibly inspiring from your career just to I
don't know, I cannot wait to watch Animal House. I
can't wait to revisit and and learn about the earlier
Tim Matheson.
Speaker 2 (42:54):
But I.
Speaker 1 (42:56):
Love doc and I love the show, and I'm so
excited that there's another season coming our way. So Tim,
thank you for being with us.
Speaker 2 (43:05):
Thank you, Amy TJ. Thank you very much. I love
speaking with you and I learned a whole bunch talking
to you, and thank you for sharing all that.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Regrets on everything.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Brother, Thank you
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Amy Robach
T.J. Holmes
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