May 30, 2025 • 13 mins
For Shop Talk, Coach Bill reflects on some fascinating studies that show people are far more willing to help us than we might expect. And what this means for the Army.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Everybody, It's Bill Courtney, Welcome into the shop. What's up, Alex,
It's living the dream, baby, live in the dream. Me too.
I've I've been traveling too much lately, and I'm so
glad to be home and back in the shop.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I feel so bad for your going to weddings and vacation, and.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Well, vacation's fine. Weddings. You know, who actually goes to
a wedding that's not in the family or being married,
that actually looks forward to it? I think most wedding.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
It looks like it was in a beautiful spot though
I saw Malli post pictures of is it ESTs Parker?
You guys right, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I don't even remember.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I think you don't even know where you were hurt.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Well, I mean it's you go to weddings more is
an obligation than anything else. I mean, that's what people don't.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
I hope this couple here is this episode and that'd
be amazing.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I love them and I hope they have a wonderful life.
And I was so happy to be at their wedding.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
How was that that was obligatory to keep going?
Speaker 1 (00:57):
It was shop talking number fifty four. Everybody, this one
is titled Don't be Afraid to ask for Help, which
reminds me of like the nineteen seventies parody where people
before cell phones. People would drive around but the husband
would never get out ask for help at the gas
station and would just stay lost for hours because they're
(01:20):
unwilling to admit they're loss to need help.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
But pride of every man.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yes, that's it. So Shop Talk number fifty four, don't
be Afraid to ask for help. Welcome in the shop.
We'll talk about this right after these brief messages from
our general sponsors. Welcome back to the shop, everybody. Shop
(01:49):
Talk number fifty four, Don't be Afraid to ask for help.
In Chicago Booth Review a publication of the University of
Chicago's Booth Business School. That's where really smart people go
to school.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I think, yeah it is.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
I mean University of Chicago's Booth Business School. I mean
when it says in the University of Chicago's Booth Baby,
if you have to have six names, six words to
describe your school, it's probably hard to go to school.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Now speaking of a normal folks. Thing for a little diversion, yeah,
one thing like me go and all these fancy schools
like that Sam Natius I was telling you about. By
the way, they're not a church school. They're found in
the eighteen hundreds. No, right, yeah, but or even UVA
like living in Oxford, missive be now that all these
people went to Old Miss It's amazing how many people
make more money than me despite the fancy schools. Yeah,
(02:39):
so it's like who cares, like the u went to
these fancy schools?
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Whatever? Yeah, I mean we're in Oxford. Who cares? Right? Okay.
In Chicago Booth Review, publication of the very fancy University
of Chicago's Booth Business School, Cassandra ra Ball I don't know,
I don't know. Br A ba w under Braba wrote
an awesome article titled Don't be afraid to ask for help.
(03:07):
Walking in a park one day, Stansford's.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
See Stanford, it's not that I know.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
It's us. I'm gonna say, Jean, it's spelled x u
A n z h A O. So. Walking in a
park one day, Stanford's Jean Jao noticed an elderly couple
trying to take a picture of themselves. She heard the
(03:35):
husband whisper that they shouldn't bother a young man using
a laptop on a bench nearby. Noticing their struggle, the
woman offered to help. Really, the wife asked, you can
help us take a picture? It was It was a
common enough interaction, and it mirrored the findings of a
study that Joao conducted with Booth's Nicholas Epley when she
(03:59):
was a post doctoral scholar at Chicago Booth. The researchers
find that people can be consistently reluctant to reach out
for assistance because they underestimate how happy others are to comply.
That's interesting. Often it is our own preconceived notions that
(04:23):
hinder us from reaching out and seeking help, even though
people are frequently more more than willing to lend a
hand when asked. This reluctance creates a barrier to a
social interaction that would increase the well being for both
the request of the helper and the helper. The researchers right.
(04:48):
In six experiments, Epl and Jall surveyed hundreds of people
to gather information about study participants expected and actual reactions
to either asking for or being asked for help. For example,
in their first experiment, John Epley recruited fifty visitors of
(05:09):
a public park and asked them to find someone to
take their picture on a Polari camera. Participants first filled
out a survey that gauged both how they felt about
making the request and how they expected the people they
approached to fill and react. In forty seven the side
(05:30):
of fifty now in forty seven cases, the first person
approached agreed to help, and three others. The first declined,
but the second person said yes. The researchers then approached
the picture takers and surveyed them as well. To participants
significantly underestimated the picture taker's willingness to help and overestimated
(05:56):
the discomfort involved. The surveys revealed. Another experiment tested how
willing strangers in a university laboratory were to help each other.
Participants were paired up and seated at a computer desk,
close enough that they could see each other but not
the other's computer screen. They were then tasked with, within
(06:18):
five minutes, counting the number of instances the letter E
appeared in an academic article. One partner was given too
much material to cover in that time, while the other
was giving so little as to have lots of time
left over. The overburdened participants were encouraged to ask for help,
whether by asking their partners directly or by tapping the
(06:42):
experiment instructor to ask on their behalf. As before and
the other experiments, the results indicate that the people in
need of help tended to underestimate how happy others were
to provide help, and they overestimated the perceived bother involved
in asking for help. We believe those asking for help
(07:05):
are likely to focus on the inconvenience of helping, as
the help required as likely to be their primary focus.
That Pally says, someone being asked for help, in contrast,
will focus on the inconvenience of helping, but will also
focus on an enhanced sense of agency for being identified
as someone who could provide help. Now that's interesting. Huh,
(07:29):
I'm gonna read that again. This is in quotes. We
believe those asking for help are likely to focus on
the inconvenience of helping, as the help required is likely
to be their primary focus. Someone being asked for help,
in contrast, will focus on the inconvenience of helping, but
(07:50):
will also focus on a hand sense of personal agency
for being identified as someone who could provide help. In
other words, we like to be helpful for the person
being asked for help. The social connection and positive feeling
of performing and active kindness most likely always outweigh the inconvenience.
(08:15):
Sal and Epley say the finding change their own behaviors.
Zu now proactively offers help, knowing how reluctant others are
to ask. She gives the example of a recent vacation
to Murewood's National Monument, where she offered to take photos
for other visitors, even suggesting she use a panorama mode
(08:35):
to capture the full grandeur of the monument's old growth
redrig trees. Epley no longer hesitates to reach out for help.
In some ways, it's actually unkind not to ask or help,
and someone would be quite willing and even happier if
you did ask. He says, pretty phenomenal stuff, But how
does that all really relate. It's this an army of
(09:00):
normal folks is only as good as an army, and
we often take on a project and feel like it's
our duty to finish it and oftentimes won't ask for
help because we feel like we're inconvenience in somebody. But
(09:21):
what the study tells us is people want to be
asked for help and by asking people for help, you
give them agency, ownership, you give them a place in
a project. So if you're engaged in something and you
want to grow an army around your idea, it might
be as simple as just asking for help to give
(09:44):
people agency in your idea. One, they want to help.
The research shows people want to help. And two you
grow agency and ownership by involving people into help. And three,
as pointed out at the very end there, you're actually
doing the service to other people by not asking them
for help, because you're not giving them the opportunity to engage.
(10:06):
It's pretty interesting stuff, Alex.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah, curious where'd you find this?
Speaker 1 (10:11):
This is all Alex's idea.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
By the way, so our good friend Evan Feinberg shared
the article on LinkedIn.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Why wouldn't it be Evan fiden He.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Posts a lot of good stuff like this that are
good shop talks.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
So this actually came from Evan Biberg. Yeah, yeah, shout
out to Evan. That's pretty cool. So shop talk number
fifty four, don't be afraid to ask for help. Here's
the asterisks. Why shouldn't we be afraid to ask for help? One?
People want to help, That's what the research shows two
people take on agency when they're allowed to help, meaning
(10:44):
they get involved in your work, your idea, your need.
And three because people want to help. When you're afraid
to ask them for help, you're actually doing them a
disservice because you're precluding them from engaging in something that
will make them feel better. So don't be afraid to
(11:04):
ask for help, not just because it's good for you,
but it's good for the people you ask for help too.
Pretty interesting stuff.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
And I think for all of us to be healthy
as healthy as possible, we all need help. And so
I hate asking for help. It's not like I really
hate it, but you know, for me to be the
best version of who I can likely is going to
require help from other people. Therefore I'm going to be
a healthier person. Therefore I can actually given help more
(11:31):
people myself at the end of the day.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
So yeah, and they're healthier too because people want to help.
It's good stuff. That's actually kind of an army and
normal folks kind of thing, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
How we did it is a shop talk bro.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yeah, there it is Shop Talk number fifty four. Don't
be afraid to ask for help because you're doing yourself
and others are disservice by doing it.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Oh yeah, or a new plug. This is a good
playoff of our recent new plug go for it. Speaking
of asking.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
For help, oh, we want your help.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yes, and you can help other people by doing this too.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
This is just a big old help thing. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
We're all just helping each other in one big circle.
So if you do a good act, whether it's like
giving blood like John Norman is, or you're running with
the homeless like Michael Lignosis and all the amazing thing
Army members are.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Doing, yes, anything, post.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
It on social media and write some kind of message
like join hashtag an army of normal folks. Together, we
can solve our problems tagging us tag us in it too.
We want to shift start sharing a lot of those
we'll post all that on our accounts, yep. But also
those posts can help other people by seeing look, normal
(12:42):
folks like me can solve these problems, and together we
can solve almost all the problems.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
And hopefully it brings more people to the ship. That's true,
So we help each other.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
We're all helping each other. There's kind of post. You
just got to be humble about it, right, you can't
be a Turkey person bragging about how great you are.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Yeah, it's just do it and send it to us
and we'll repost it and who knows, maybe something goes viral.
But more importantly, growing the Army sharing our stories.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
That's it. Hey, if you liked this episode, rate and
review it, Join the Army at normal folks dot us,
subscribe to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
You're really nailing it in right now.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
I think I got it all, didn't I.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
You can become a premium member of normal Folks out
us that one.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yeah, and besides that, we'll see you next week.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yes, next week, yes, next week.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Okay, that's shop talk at number fifty four. We just
ask for help. Don't be afraid to ask for help.
Let's grow the Army and we'll see you next week.
Thanks for joining
Everybody, It's Bill Courtney, Welcome into the shop. What's up, Alex,
It's living the dream, baby, live in the dream. Me too.
I've I've been traveling too much lately, and I'm so
glad to be home and back in the shop.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
I feel so bad for your going to weddings and vacation, and.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
Well, vacation's fine. Weddings. You know, who actually goes to
a wedding that's not in the family or being married,
that actually looks forward to it? I think most wedding.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
It looks like it was in a beautiful spot though
I saw Malli post pictures of is it ESTs Parker?
You guys right, I don't know.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
I don't even remember.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
I think you don't even know where you were hurt.
Speaker 1 (00:41):
Well, I mean it's you go to weddings more is
an obligation than anything else. I mean, that's what people don't.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
I hope this couple here is this episode and that'd
be amazing.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
I love them and I hope they have a wonderful life.
And I was so happy to be at their wedding.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
How was that that was obligatory to keep going?
Speaker 1 (00:57):
It was shop talking number fifty four. Everybody, this one
is titled Don't be Afraid to ask for Help, which
reminds me of like the nineteen seventies parody where people
before cell phones. People would drive around but the husband
would never get out ask for help at the gas
station and would just stay lost for hours because they're
(01:20):
unwilling to admit they're loss to need help.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
But pride of every man.
Speaker 1 (01:25):
Yes, that's it. So Shop Talk number fifty four, don't
be Afraid to ask for help. Welcome in the shop.
We'll talk about this right after these brief messages from
our general sponsors. Welcome back to the shop, everybody. Shop
(01:49):
Talk number fifty four, Don't be Afraid to ask for help.
In Chicago Booth Review a publication of the University of
Chicago's Booth Business School. That's where really smart people go
to school.
Speaker 2 (02:04):
I think, yeah it is.
Speaker 1 (02:06):
I mean University of Chicago's Booth Business School. I mean
when it says in the University of Chicago's Booth Baby,
if you have to have six names, six words to
describe your school, it's probably hard to go to school.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
Now speaking of a normal folks. Thing for a little diversion, yeah,
one thing like me go and all these fancy schools
like that Sam Natius I was telling you about. By
the way, they're not a church school. They're found in
the eighteen hundreds. No, right, yeah, but or even UVA
like living in Oxford, missive be now that all these
people went to Old Miss It's amazing how many people
make more money than me despite the fancy schools. Yeah,
(02:39):
so it's like who cares, like the u went to
these fancy schools?
Speaker 1 (02:42):
Whatever? Yeah, I mean we're in Oxford. Who cares? Right? Okay.
In Chicago Booth Review, publication of the very fancy University
of Chicago's Booth Business School, Cassandra ra Ball I don't know,
I don't know. Br A ba w under Braba wrote
an awesome article titled Don't be afraid to ask for help.
(03:07):
Walking in a park one day, Stansford's.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
See Stanford, it's not that I know.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
It's us. I'm gonna say, Jean, it's spelled x u
A n z h A O. So. Walking in a
park one day, Stanford's Jean Jao noticed an elderly couple
trying to take a picture of themselves. She heard the
(03:35):
husband whisper that they shouldn't bother a young man using
a laptop on a bench nearby. Noticing their struggle, the
woman offered to help. Really, the wife asked, you can
help us take a picture? It was It was a
common enough interaction, and it mirrored the findings of a
study that Joao conducted with Booth's Nicholas Epley when she
(03:59):
was a post doctoral scholar at Chicago Booth. The researchers
find that people can be consistently reluctant to reach out
for assistance because they underestimate how happy others are to comply.
That's interesting. Often it is our own preconceived notions that
(04:23):
hinder us from reaching out and seeking help, even though
people are frequently more more than willing to lend a
hand when asked. This reluctance creates a barrier to a
social interaction that would increase the well being for both
the request of the helper and the helper. The researchers right.
(04:48):
In six experiments, Epl and Jall surveyed hundreds of people
to gather information about study participants expected and actual reactions
to either asking for or being asked for help. For example,
in their first experiment, John Epley recruited fifty visitors of
(05:09):
a public park and asked them to find someone to
take their picture on a Polari camera. Participants first filled
out a survey that gauged both how they felt about
making the request and how they expected the people they
approached to fill and react. In forty seven the side
(05:30):
of fifty now in forty seven cases, the first person
approached agreed to help, and three others. The first declined,
but the second person said yes. The researchers then approached
the picture takers and surveyed them as well. To participants
significantly underestimated the picture taker's willingness to help and overestimated
(05:56):
the discomfort involved. The surveys revealed. Another experiment tested how
willing strangers in a university laboratory were to help each other.
Participants were paired up and seated at a computer desk,
close enough that they could see each other but not
the other's computer screen. They were then tasked with, within
(06:18):
five minutes, counting the number of instances the letter E
appeared in an academic article. One partner was given too
much material to cover in that time, while the other
was giving so little as to have lots of time
left over. The overburdened participants were encouraged to ask for help,
whether by asking their partners directly or by tapping the
(06:42):
experiment instructor to ask on their behalf. As before and
the other experiments, the results indicate that the people in
need of help tended to underestimate how happy others were
to provide help, and they overestimated the perceived bother involved
in asking for help. We believe those asking for help
(07:05):
are likely to focus on the inconvenience of helping, as
the help required as likely to be their primary focus.
That Pally says, someone being asked for help, in contrast,
will focus on the inconvenience of helping, but will also
focus on an enhanced sense of agency for being identified
as someone who could provide help. Now that's interesting. Huh,
(07:29):
I'm gonna read that again. This is in quotes. We
believe those asking for help are likely to focus on
the inconvenience of helping, as the help required is likely
to be their primary focus. Someone being asked for help,
in contrast, will focus on the inconvenience of helping, but
(07:50):
will also focus on a hand sense of personal agency
for being identified as someone who could provide help. In
other words, we like to be helpful for the person
being asked for help. The social connection and positive feeling
of performing and active kindness most likely always outweigh the inconvenience.
(08:15):
Sal and Epley say the finding change their own behaviors.
Zu now proactively offers help, knowing how reluctant others are
to ask. She gives the example of a recent vacation
to Murewood's National Monument, where she offered to take photos
for other visitors, even suggesting she use a panorama mode
(08:35):
to capture the full grandeur of the monument's old growth
redrig trees. Epley no longer hesitates to reach out for help.
In some ways, it's actually unkind not to ask or help,
and someone would be quite willing and even happier if
you did ask. He says, pretty phenomenal stuff, But how
does that all really relate. It's this an army of
(09:00):
normal folks is only as good as an army, and
we often take on a project and feel like it's
our duty to finish it and oftentimes won't ask for
help because we feel like we're inconvenience in somebody. But
(09:21):
what the study tells us is people want to be
asked for help and by asking people for help, you
give them agency, ownership, you give them a place in
a project. So if you're engaged in something and you
want to grow an army around your idea, it might
be as simple as just asking for help to give
(09:44):
people agency in your idea. One, they want to help.
The research shows people want to help. And two you
grow agency and ownership by involving people into help. And three,
as pointed out at the very end there, you're actually
doing the service to other people by not asking them
for help, because you're not giving them the opportunity to engage.
(10:06):
It's pretty interesting stuff, Alex.
Speaker 2 (10:08):
Yeah, curious where'd you find this?
Speaker 1 (10:11):
This is all Alex's idea.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
By the way, so our good friend Evan Feinberg shared
the article on LinkedIn.
Speaker 1 (10:17):
Why wouldn't it be Evan fiden He.
Speaker 2 (10:19):
Posts a lot of good stuff like this that are
good shop talks.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
So this actually came from Evan Biberg. Yeah, yeah, shout
out to Evan. That's pretty cool. So shop talk number
fifty four, don't be afraid to ask for help. Here's
the asterisks. Why shouldn't we be afraid to ask for help? One?
People want to help, That's what the research shows two
people take on agency when they're allowed to help, meaning
(10:44):
they get involved in your work, your idea, your need.
And three because people want to help. When you're afraid
to ask them for help, you're actually doing them a
disservice because you're precluding them from engaging in something that
will make them feel better. So don't be afraid to
(11:04):
ask for help, not just because it's good for you,
but it's good for the people you ask for help too.
Pretty interesting stuff.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
And I think for all of us to be healthy
as healthy as possible, we all need help. And so
I hate asking for help. It's not like I really
hate it, but you know, for me to be the
best version of who I can likely is going to
require help from other people. Therefore I'm going to be
a healthier person. Therefore I can actually given help more
(11:31):
people myself at the end of the day.
Speaker 1 (11:33):
So yeah, and they're healthier too because people want to help.
It's good stuff. That's actually kind of an army and
normal folks kind of thing, isn't it.
Speaker 2 (11:42):
How we did it is a shop talk bro.
Speaker 1 (11:44):
Yeah, there it is Shop Talk number fifty four. Don't
be afraid to ask for help because you're doing yourself
and others are disservice by doing it.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Oh yeah, or a new plug. This is a good
playoff of our recent new plug go for it. Speaking
of asking.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
For help, oh, we want your help.
Speaker 2 (12:00):
Yes, and you can help other people by doing this too.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
This is just a big old help thing. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
We're all just helping each other in one big circle.
So if you do a good act, whether it's like
giving blood like John Norman is, or you're running with
the homeless like Michael Lignosis and all the amazing thing
Army members are.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Doing, yes, anything, post.
Speaker 2 (12:21):
It on social media and write some kind of message
like join hashtag an army of normal folks. Together, we
can solve our problems tagging us tag us in it too.
We want to shift start sharing a lot of those
we'll post all that on our accounts, yep. But also
those posts can help other people by seeing look, normal
(12:42):
folks like me can solve these problems, and together we
can solve almost all the problems.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
And hopefully it brings more people to the ship. That's true,
So we help each other.
Speaker 2 (12:51):
We're all helping each other. There's kind of post. You
just got to be humble about it, right, you can't
be a Turkey person bragging about how great you are.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
Yeah, it's just do it and send it to us
and we'll repost it and who knows, maybe something goes viral.
But more importantly, growing the Army sharing our stories.
Speaker 2 (13:09):
That's it.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
That's it. Hey, if you liked this episode, rate and
review it, Join the Army at normal folks dot us,
subscribe to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
You're really nailing it in right now.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
I think I got it all, didn't I.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
You can become a premium member of normal Folks out
us that one.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
Yeah, and besides that, we'll see you next week.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
Yes, next week, yes, next week.
Speaker 1 (13:35):
Okay, that's shop talk at number fifty four. We just
ask for help. Don't be afraid to ask for help.
Let's grow the Army and we'll see you next week.
Thanks for joining
Host
Bill Courtney
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