Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hey, everybody, it's Bill Courting. Welcome to shop Talk number
thirty four. Welcome into the shop. Actually thirty five, it's
thirty five. Everybody, Welcome to shop Talk number thirty five.
Welcome into the shop. Welcome in, Alex. How are you
doing today? Good? This finger? You know? Yeah, well you
shouldn't be falling down, breaking fingers or whatever it is
(00:21):
that you did with that finger. Everybody, Alex has a
broken finger. Today's shop Talk number thirty five is Don't
let your Babies be Bots. That's the title of it title.
I'll take it you like that.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
I'm actually going to listen to you this time and use.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
That I just just came up off the top of
my head. Don't let your baby be bots by giving
them cell phones and having them use them all over
the place like a bunch of robots. Right after these
brief messages from our general sponsors, everybody, welcome back Shop
(01:15):
Talk number thirty five. Don't let your babies be Bots?
Inspired by Sandy Groger Groger or Groger What do you think,
Sandy Grogerger Groger, Hey, Sandy, thanks for sending this an
email she sent another shop Talk idea.
Speaker 2 (01:31):
Actually read the whole thing it's so good.
Speaker 1 (01:32):
Okay, Dear Bill, I wanted to first take this opportunity
to thank you for your podcast. I first learned of
you while listening to an episode of Microse the way
I heard it when he induced you in your movie.
I was fascinated. So the first thing I did was
rent Undefeated. Great movie, by the way. I then went
and followed your podcast on Spotify. You can follow our
(01:54):
podcast on many things including Spotify, iHeart Apple, and wherever
you get your podcasts. I can honestly admit to being
current and up to date with all of your released episodes,
which is a great testament to the engaging and informative
nature of your podcast. Seriously, Sandy, thank you. That's really
kind of you to say. While all the stories are inspiring,
(02:17):
some of them hit me in my heart a little
bit more. I've begun volunteering for the local chapter of
Sleeping Heavenly Peace. I'm looking into other volunteer options. That
made my day. I have an idea for one of
your shop talks. Can we please tell parents stop letting
their kids have devices at a young age. There are
times that prudent and judicious use of an electronics device
(02:39):
can be beneficial or at least not harmful to a
child's development. But this should be rare, not the norm.
Oh Sandy, you're starting to speak to me girl. I
see so many kids addicted to phones and iPads. Their
parents are so very proud of how smart they think
they are because they can quickly scroll through and find
their favorite app or video. They can navigate the screen
(03:02):
like an IT expert, and can build elaborate structures on
apps like Minecraft. Yet these smart kids in her kidnergarten,
many of whom have never held a crayon, opened a book,
or stopped a physical block. Kids who grow up with
advice always are often in their hands, don't know how
to handle boredom, don't have a sense of environmental curiosity,
(03:24):
don't play with manipulative toys, and don't get outside and
get dirty. As a pediatric occupational therapist, I see the
ramifications when they enter school. There are so many more
pherrals for delays and find motor skills and handwriting that
before the days of electronic devices. Kids not only don't
hold their crayons or pencils well, they can't even hold
them at all. They have not developed the foundation and
(03:46):
find motor skills and they also have not learned patience
and delayed gratification that has significant sensors processing issues since
they haven't experienced the world with all of their senses
to be able to interact with and integrate. Their parents
are also seemingly addicted to their own device. At least
these parents grew up before the widespread use of these
phones slash tablets and learned at a young age the
(04:09):
foundation of fine motor skills. Kids today are not getting
the building blocks and will continue to struggle with not
only academics but also daily life skills. While I could
go on and on about how technology dependents is putting
our children behind, I'll leave it at this. One young
kindergartener was handed a book on the first day of school.
(04:29):
His teacher tells me that he tried to quote open
it by tapping on a picture on the cover, likely
thinking it was an icon. This is truly sad. Thanks
for your time, thanks for your podcast, Sandy, thank you
for your letter, and I now am going to talk
about don't make your baby a bot man. Do. I
(04:53):
have a lot of thoughts about this one. The first
is I am really tired. As a side note of
being in a restaurant and looking at a family of
four sitting there ordering food together, and then all four
of them looking down at their stuff. Lisa and I
didn't buy cell phones for our children until they reached
(05:18):
eighth grade, and I'm not even sure if that was
too early or not, but that's when we decided to
do it. But we had a rule. Whenever we got
to dinner time, we said, stack them and mine and
Lisa's and all four kids phones got stacked in the
middle of the table, right next to the mashed potatoes
or green beans or whatever, and were not to be
(05:39):
touched until supper was over. Because while Sandy's points are
really well taken, I don't think the social interaction that
she's talking about in school in her letter. I don't
think it's just a school looks like it's in families
and everywhere else. So as I read this, I started
(06:02):
goofing around trying to find any content relative to this,
and ironically enough, I did find something. It's a story
about what school system is this Marina del Rey, Where
Marina del Rey, California. I'll be damn, the people that
(06:23):
make the phones are now banon them. That's great.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
Well, yeah, I'm sure you heard this before. People like
Tim Cook and Steve Jobs and other people in Silicon
Valley would not allow their kids to have phones either.
So the extual makers of all the social media companies, everybody.
Speaker 1 (06:38):
In the shop needs to hear what Alex just said.
The very people who made and designed these phones won't
even let their own children have.
Speaker 2 (06:47):
And social media, the founders of social media companies do so.
Speaker 1 (06:52):
In the school system, the kids when they show up
have to put at their phone in like a gray pouch, right,
isn't that right, Alex? That's right? All right? Now, who
keeps the pouches? The pouch stay with the school or
how's it worked? You know, I don't know. You just
that it doesn't matter. They basically the kids can't have
(07:14):
their schools their phones. They're put in a pouch and
they're unusable. And this is Marina del Ray, California, all right.
So six months after this has been going on for
two years, I think of Marina del right, So six
months after they started the absolutely no phones in school,
(07:35):
Principal Dudley says, the entire school culture has changed. Bullying
has decreased, and fewer kids are being referred to the
office Dudley ads that students are improving academically. You know
the smart kids that Susan talks about, they're improving academically.
(07:56):
Their scores on State Standardized test improved from the beginning
of last school before the band was in place, to
the end of the school year when the campus was
phone free. Teacher Asha Nash says she's no longer using
valuable class time to hound students about their phones. Says
(08:16):
they're even checking themselves out in the mirror less. It's beautiful.
I feel like the kids are actually engaged and they
seem this is crazy happier. The other thing I read
is the hallway in between classes. Check this out, Alex.
The hallway when classes are switching is exponentially louder because
(08:42):
the kids are actually talking to each other. Is that
not interesting social interaction because you're headed and buried in
a screen. Guys, if you're listening to me, Susan is
clearly more than just a person writing a letter. She
is far too much documentation. And my guess is she's
(09:03):
some type of educator administrator. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
She's it says in there she said she's I a
psychologist in the schools it's in there.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
Oh. Oh, she's a pediatric occupational therapist. She's a lot
more than a teacher and everything.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
She's like, just to be fair to you, we took
a like a twenty minute break there to talk about
your work.
Speaker 1 (09:22):
We did between whenever it's you to go in between
when I read the letter and right now I had
a disaster happened at work, and now I'm getting back
to it. But yes, she's Susan's a pediatric occupational therapist,
and she sees fine motor skill delay. She sings people
tapping on the front of books to quote open it.
(09:45):
And then these folks and Marina del Rey once they
ban sees happier, more engaged, smarter, better tested, and kids
more engaged with less bullying. What else do we need
to hear? Folks? Your children don't need cell phones at
(10:10):
an early age. It is prohibiting their growth. It is
prohibiting their ability to interact. It is prohibiting their ability
to grow. Not long ago, I did a shop talk
on let your kids skin their knees. You know what,
(10:31):
They're never going to skin their knees if they're at
home on a phone. They don't have a phone they're
going to go outside interact with kids, and then they're
going to skin their knees, and then that shop talk
makes sense. So Susan asked that I did a shop
talk on the danger of making your baby's bots, and
it really is detrimental. And what happens to the future
(10:52):
of the quote army of normal folks engaging in community
if they don't know how to engage unless it's through
ast screen, develop into personal relationships. How do you have
the patience to invest time when you are so used
to having immediate gratification provided by a phone. How do
(11:13):
you fail? How do you learn from the failing? Babies
are not supposed to be bots. Babies are supposed to
be nurtured, learn how to interact, have interpersonal relationships, talk, smile,
and not be buried in a phone. I'll be honest
with you, I don't know what the right age is
(11:33):
to give your kids phones, but I know it's not kindergarten.
I think Lisa and I would probably have delayed the
phone to sophomores now if we had to do over
again when our kids were coming through. They're twenty nine, eight,
seven and six now, So the whole phone thing was
kind of new when they were coming through. But I'm
(11:56):
pretty sure I wouldn't do eighth grade anymore. I'm pretty
sure I would. You know, driving age maybe, and if
you're concerned about their safety and how do they get
in touch with you and and all of that. Well,
the school has answered that as well. They have.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
You call the front office. It's not that hard.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
They have Yeah. I was about to say, they have
this thing called a hard line. Yeah, it's interesting. And
when you doll a seven digit combination, it picks right
on up.
Speaker 2 (12:33):
A couple of things. This is usually you on shop
Talk mostly, but a lot of listeners may know about
Jonathan Hite is big on this topic, and I wasn't
aware of this. I'm just reading this article that he
mentions about wait until eighth So there's a whole parent
movement out there of getting people to wait at least
until eighth grade.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
Well, I guess we did that right.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Yeah, yeah, I did high school and I thought that
was good. But he Jonathan often talks about like parents
needing to have a pact together because one of the
big arguments is like the kids are left out if
they don't have a cell phone, but all their other
friends do, and so you need to have a pact
with a couple other families and that's all you need.
I mean, it's really like creating an army of normal
(13:11):
folks who are joining together and saying, hey, together, we
are going to do this that their kids are not
going to have cell phones until eighth grade or high school.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
And you know what, if kids can't have their phone
in school and they're used to not being able to
use it in school, like these kids at Marina del right,
then not getting it to lighth grade won't be that
big a deal because they're not like ostracized for not
having a phone at school. I mean, it all works together,
this idea of this pat of parents. I love it.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
You just need a couple of good friends.
Speaker 1 (13:45):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
If you just have a couple other families in with
you on this pact, you're good.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
That understand what they're doing to their kids with these things. Yeah, well,
everybody shop talk number thirty five. Don't make your baby's bots.
There's tons of information on internet. There's a great story
from Sandy or a great letter from Sandy to support
(14:09):
what we're saying. If your grandparent talk to your children
about what they're doing with your grandchildren, if your parent,
think about what we're saying. And if you're young and
listening to me and you have that phone, think about
putting it up every once in a while. Just having
a conversation with a human being, witnessing facial expressions and
(14:31):
hearing laughter rather than emojis. You might experience some sensations
that that phone can't give you. It just won't vibrate
that into your brain. That's shop Talk number thirty five.
Don't make your baby's pots. Guys. If you have any
ideas for shop Talk, you can write me anytime at
(14:52):
Bill at normal folks dot us and I will respond.
If I think we have something to add or to
offer or to comment on like we have, I'll do it.
If not, I'll just respond and thank you for the
idea and tell you I don't really feel comfortable talking
about it because I will sound more like an idiot
than I normally do. If you like this thing, y'all,
(15:13):
please rate us, review us, subscribe to the podcast, tell
folks about us, share us, share us with friends and
on social and all that stuff. This is Bill Courtney
at shop Talk number thirty five. Don't make your Baby's bots.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
That's kind of a weak ring, was it. Yeah, I
think you're tired at the end of the day.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
Yeah, we're leaving. It's end of the day, y'all. We'll
see you next week.