March 3, 2025 • 15 mins
Father Jerzy Popieluszko was the chaplain for Poland's resistance movement called Solidarity. And the Soviet communists couldn't bear his powerful voice for faith and freedom. Larry Reed celebrates this courageous martyr for An Army of Normal Dead Folks.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
At one point, the journalist asked him, father Yearsy, how
can you expect to continue to do what you do,
to say the things you are, and not expect this
government to do something awful. They had already planted weapons
in his apartment and then staged a raid with cameras
to say, ah, see, father Yearsy's trying to start a revolution.
They'd done a million things to harass him.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Well.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Father Yarsy's response to that journalist is memorable and chilling
at the same time. He said, they will kill me.
They will kill me, and then he went on to say,
but I cannot remain silent as members of my own
congregation disappear or jailed, tortured because of what they believe.
(00:50):
I cannot and he didn't.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney,
I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father,
I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a football coach an
inner city Memphis. And that last part somehow led to
an oscar for the film about our team. That movie
is called Undefeated. Guys. I believe our country's problems are
(01:20):
never going to be solved by a bunch of fancy
people and nice suits, using big words that nobody ever
uses on CNN and Fox, but rather by an army
of normal folks. Guys, that's us, just you and me deciding, Hey,
you know what I can help. That's exactly what father
(01:41):
Jersey Papa Yushko did. He was the chaplain for the
Polish resistance movement called Solidarity, and the Soviets murdered this
priest because of this powerful witness. I cannot wait for
you to hear this story from Real Heroes author Larry
Reid as we pay tribute to him for our special
(02:02):
series An Army of normal dead Folks. Right after these
brief messages from our general sponsors, last woman to ask
(02:22):
you about and we're good. Last woman to ask you
about chapter thirty four, And I cannot say this guy's name,
Jersey Popousco.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
You're close, Yeah, Jersey, it looks like Jersey j E.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Is the witness to truth and freedom. I got this
far through the book this morning. It was also happened
to be a chapter that that Alex producer said make
sure you read. And so I got this far and
I think maybe it ringed true to me because I'm
(03:08):
not you know, in the eighties. I was in high school,
so some of this I remembered. But I'm going to
read a little piece that I bracketed, and then I'd
like you to tell the story. But I'm going to
bracket this as a backdrop for the beginning of the story.
(03:30):
It is not enough for a Christian to condemn evil, cowardice, lies,
and use of force, hatred and oppression. He once declared,
he must at all times be a witness to and
defender of justice, goodness, truth, freedom, and love. He must
never tire of claiming these values as a right for
(03:52):
both themself and others. There's this recurring theme as I
go through this book that that complacency is complicit. Yeah,
that even though you may not be doing an evil
(04:14):
act or deed by knowing about it, turning your head
and not engaging in something to stop it, that complicity
is just as evil as the sent itself. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
And that passage that you read, Bill really is a
beautiful summary of the life and commitment of father Jerzy
Papa Yushko, who died at a young age of thirty seven.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Tell us the story.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
It's an amazing story. If any of your listeners ever
are in Warsaw. I must see site is his church,
Saint santaswaf Cusca Church in Warsaw. He's buried there under
a huge stone cross, and there is a museum dedicated
to him in the basement of the church. That guarantee
(05:04):
will leave you in tears. Father Papeuschko from an early
age was thin, kind of sickly. You would never see
in him, at least physically, the makings of a future
courageous hero. He was drafted, as everybody in Poland, even
(05:26):
seminarians were the Communist days, into the military, but treated
very cruelly. Seminarians who were drafted into the Polish army
under Communism were ridiculed. He himself was made to stand
at attention for like twenty four hours or more at
a time, never to sit down for that entire time,
(05:48):
put in freezing conditions.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Here.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
They were drafted to serve in the army and treated
like that. Because this is an atheist communist government. It
doesn't take kindly to people who profess a faith in
something higher than the state. But father Yerzy endured that
and then later became a young priest. And if you
remember the climactic events that spanned a decade that began
(06:13):
with Pope John Paul the Second visiting Warsaw in nineteen
seventy nine. He had just been named pope the year
before the.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
First, which I'm sorry I did interrupt, but just want
to make sure our listeners either recollect remember or are
exposed to You know, popes didn't come from Poland at
that time.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Not for four hundred and fifty years had there been
a non Italian.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
And the Soviet state which you just explained as a
communist organization where the state is what you worship. Yeah,
and they weren't typically ever going to let a powerful
man of clergy into a Soviet state, but they did
(06:59):
allow this Polish pope ordained in Italy to go to Poland.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Yeah, that's right, because which.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Was in nineteen seventy nine, was a big, big, big,
big deal, a shocking deal really that that actually happened.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Exactly, So go ahead, and the Communist government thought that
they could so regulate his whereabouts and what he had
to say well in Poland, that they would end up
benefiting from it, that they could say, well, see we're
not so bad.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
We let it's so bad, let show up.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Well they did everything they could to keep the crowds
down didn't work. He spoke to at least a million,
some say as many as three million people in Warsaw,
and he spoke his mind. Poles will tell you today
that the one line that he uttered, that from which
they drew the greatest inspiration, was this. John Paul looked
(07:50):
at them and said, with his finger in the air,
be not afraid. Now that may sound rather ordinary, but
to Poles they knew what that meant. They had endured
communism for decades. Here is one of their own coming
back and telling them, stand up to this. It's a
noble cause. Resist, be not afraid. The Lord is with you.
(08:15):
And that gave birth within weeks to the organization we
know as Solidarity, resisting the communist government, demanding freedoms of
speech and press and assembly and so forth. And then
for the nineteen eighties Poland went through this period of euphoria,
at first with Solidarity growing and pushing for more freedoms,
(08:37):
but then such disappointment when the Polish Communist government cracked
down with martial law in December of eighty one. They
threw thousands of people in prison. They couldn't let solidarity
continue to grow. They banned, arrested Lek Fouenza, who would
later become a president of Poland.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
And it was in this post of border.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah exactly, yeah, still living to this date. And it
was in this dark night of the eighties with martial
law that Father Yearsy Papayushko, in his thirties, begins to
become known. And he becomes known because from his pulpit
in Warsaw, he spoke the truth and people were so
(09:18):
hungry for it that he would not only speak the
truth to those within the church, but they put loudspeakers
outside the church so that thousands of people could gather
and hear what he had to say. And he was
a relentless critic of the Communist government. In nineteen eighty four,
an American journalist went to Warsaw to interview him, and
(09:40):
this is recorded in the December nineteen eighty four or
six I forget what readers digest an article called murder
of a Polish priest. It's reported what the conversation was
about between this American journalists and Father Yearsy. At one
point the journalist asked him, Father Yearsy, can you expect
(10:00):
to continue to do what you do to say the
things you are and not expect this government to do
something awful. They had already planted weapons in his apartment
and then staged a raid with cameras to say, ah, see,
father Yarsy's trying to start our revolution. They'd done a
million things to harass him.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Well.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Father Earsy's response to that journalist is memorable and chilling
at the same time. He said, they will kill me.
They will kill me, and then he went on to say,
but I cannot remain silent as members of my own
congregation disappear or jailed, tortured because of what they believe.
(10:45):
I cannot And he didn't. And not long thereafter, as
he was coming back to wors Off from the town
of Bidgosh from some priestly duties up there, his car
was stopped by a three secret police. The only reason
we know the details of what happened is the driver
(11:06):
of the car, a friend of Papa Yushka, escaped, and
later I was telling people about what had happened, then
forcing the government to put the three on trial. He
was tortured for two days and his body was thrown
into the Vistula.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
River, actually tied to a rock Yeah. The reason that's
important is they didn't want him to ever be found,
that's right.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah, No, they thought he would just be written off
as missing person. But when the government was forced to
put on trial the three secret police, one of them
broke down under testimony and said, I never knew that
a man could withstand such a beating. Those three were
(11:52):
given the prison sentences, but later when the furor died down,
the Communist government let him out, so they made a
deal to get off easy. But thereafter Father Yearsy was
known as John Paul the Second's favorite priest. He was
at is Poland's greatest martyr. When you visit his church today,
(12:17):
as I've done now several times. After you enter the church,
if you go behind the pulpit, you'll see the entire
wall is devoted to memorabilia of Father Yearsy, including pictures
of him and his boat on the pond with his
dog and you know, just ordinary everyday photos of a
guy who just wanted to do the right thing and
(12:39):
brought great strength to so many.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
And grew up sickly in just average and someone who
you would never point out or pick out of a
if he was part of a litter of dogs, who'd
be the last one chosen exactly yep ye and ends
up being the guy that that stood up for human
(13:02):
rights and freedom and dignity and decency of polls. Yeah,
what a legacy.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
And if you were to ask most polls today, if
you were to ask, how was it possible for the
Polish people throughout the nineteen eighties to ultimately lead the
way among the Eastern European satellite countries of the Soviet
Union to revolution to get getting rid of those totalitarian regimes?
How were Poles able to stand up against this? Father
(13:33):
papay Yushko's name will come up every time because we
had people like him, We looked to him. That's what
he wanted us to do. He gave his life for it.
How could we do any less? And so in nineteen
eighty nine, Poland became the first as the East Bloc
was breaking up, Poland became the first of the Soviet
satellite nations to have free elections and every single seat
(13:58):
that was disputed in those elections was lost by the
Communists and Poland was liberated. Two years later, the Soviet
Union itself collapsed. What a wonderful day, and it happened
because of people like Father.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Papa Yushku, phenomenal story and no doubt a real hero.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Thanks for joining us for this special series, An Army
of Normal Dead Folks. If Father Jersey or other episodes
have inspired you in general, or better yet, by acting
heroically in our time buying Larry Reid's book Real Heroes
where this story came from, or if you have story
ideas for this series, which would be cool. If you did,
(14:44):
please let me know I'd love to hear about it.
You can write me anytime at Bill at normal Folks
dot Us, and I promise I will respond. If you
enjoyed this episode, please share with friends on social let
people know about us. Prescribe to the podcast, rate it
and review it. Join the Army at Normalfolks dot us.
(15:06):
Consider becoming a premium member. There any and all of
these things that will help us grow an Army of
normal Folks. I'm Bill Courtney. Until next time, do what
you can
At one point, the journalist asked him, father Yearsy, how
can you expect to continue to do what you do,
to say the things you are, and not expect this
government to do something awful. They had already planted weapons
in his apartment and then staged a raid with cameras
to say, ah, see, father Yearsy's trying to start a revolution.
They'd done a million things to harass him.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Well.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
Father Yarsy's response to that journalist is memorable and chilling
at the same time. He said, they will kill me.
They will kill me, and then he went on to say,
but I cannot remain silent as members of my own
congregation disappear or jailed, tortured because of what they believe.
(00:50):
I cannot and he didn't.
Speaker 2 (00:59):
Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney,
I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father,
I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a football coach an
inner city Memphis. And that last part somehow led to
an oscar for the film about our team. That movie
is called Undefeated. Guys. I believe our country's problems are
(01:20):
never going to be solved by a bunch of fancy
people and nice suits, using big words that nobody ever
uses on CNN and Fox, but rather by an army
of normal folks. Guys, that's us, just you and me deciding, Hey,
you know what I can help. That's exactly what father
(01:41):
Jersey Papa Yushko did. He was the chaplain for the
Polish resistance movement called Solidarity, and the Soviets murdered this
priest because of this powerful witness. I cannot wait for
you to hear this story from Real Heroes author Larry
Reid as we pay tribute to him for our special
(02:02):
series An Army of normal dead Folks. Right after these
brief messages from our general sponsors, last woman to ask
(02:22):
you about and we're good. Last woman to ask you
about chapter thirty four, And I cannot say this guy's name,
Jersey Popousco.
Speaker 1 (02:36):
You're close, Yeah, Jersey, it looks like Jersey j E.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Is the witness to truth and freedom. I got this
far through the book this morning. It was also happened
to be a chapter that that Alex producer said make
sure you read. And so I got this far and
I think maybe it ringed true to me because I'm
(03:08):
not you know, in the eighties. I was in high school,
so some of this I remembered. But I'm going to
read a little piece that I bracketed, and then I'd
like you to tell the story. But I'm going to
bracket this as a backdrop for the beginning of the story.
(03:30):
It is not enough for a Christian to condemn evil, cowardice, lies,
and use of force, hatred and oppression. He once declared,
he must at all times be a witness to and
defender of justice, goodness, truth, freedom, and love. He must
never tire of claiming these values as a right for
(03:52):
both themself and others. There's this recurring theme as I
go through this book that that complacency is complicit. Yeah,
that even though you may not be doing an evil
(04:14):
act or deed by knowing about it, turning your head
and not engaging in something to stop it, that complicity
is just as evil as the sent itself. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
And that passage that you read, Bill really is a
beautiful summary of the life and commitment of father Jerzy
Papa Yushko, who died at a young age of thirty seven.
Speaker 2 (04:39):
Tell us the story.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
It's an amazing story. If any of your listeners ever
are in Warsaw. I must see site is his church,
Saint santaswaf Cusca Church in Warsaw. He's buried there under
a huge stone cross, and there is a museum dedicated
to him in the basement of the church. That guarantee
(05:04):
will leave you in tears. Father Papeuschko from an early
age was thin, kind of sickly. You would never see
in him, at least physically, the makings of a future
courageous hero. He was drafted, as everybody in Poland, even
(05:26):
seminarians were the Communist days, into the military, but treated
very cruelly. Seminarians who were drafted into the Polish army
under Communism were ridiculed. He himself was made to stand
at attention for like twenty four hours or more at
a time, never to sit down for that entire time,
(05:48):
put in freezing conditions.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Here.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
They were drafted to serve in the army and treated
like that. Because this is an atheist communist government. It
doesn't take kindly to people who profess a faith in
something higher than the state. But father Yerzy endured that
and then later became a young priest. And if you
remember the climactic events that spanned a decade that began
(06:13):
with Pope John Paul the Second visiting Warsaw in nineteen
seventy nine. He had just been named pope the year
before the.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
First, which I'm sorry I did interrupt, but just want
to make sure our listeners either recollect remember or are
exposed to You know, popes didn't come from Poland at
that time.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
Not for four hundred and fifty years had there been
a non Italian.
Speaker 2 (06:37):
And the Soviet state which you just explained as a
communist organization where the state is what you worship. Yeah,
and they weren't typically ever going to let a powerful
man of clergy into a Soviet state, but they did
(06:59):
allow this Polish pope ordained in Italy to go to Poland.
Speaker 1 (07:06):
Yeah, that's right, because which.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Was in nineteen seventy nine, was a big, big, big,
big deal, a shocking deal really that that actually happened.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Exactly, So go ahead, and the Communist government thought that
they could so regulate his whereabouts and what he had
to say well in Poland, that they would end up
benefiting from it, that they could say, well, see we're
not so bad.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
We let it's so bad, let show up.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Well they did everything they could to keep the crowds
down didn't work. He spoke to at least a million,
some say as many as three million people in Warsaw,
and he spoke his mind. Poles will tell you today
that the one line that he uttered, that from which
they drew the greatest inspiration, was this. John Paul looked
(07:50):
at them and said, with his finger in the air,
be not afraid. Now that may sound rather ordinary, but
to Poles they knew what that meant. They had endured
communism for decades. Here is one of their own coming
back and telling them, stand up to this. It's a
noble cause. Resist, be not afraid. The Lord is with you.
(08:15):
And that gave birth within weeks to the organization we
know as Solidarity, resisting the communist government, demanding freedoms of
speech and press and assembly and so forth. And then
for the nineteen eighties Poland went through this period of euphoria,
at first with Solidarity growing and pushing for more freedoms,
(08:37):
but then such disappointment when the Polish Communist government cracked
down with martial law in December of eighty one. They
threw thousands of people in prison. They couldn't let solidarity
continue to grow. They banned, arrested Lek Fouenza, who would
later become a president of Poland.
Speaker 2 (08:55):
And it was in this post of border.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
Yeah exactly, yeah, still living to this date. And it
was in this dark night of the eighties with martial
law that Father Yearsy Papayushko, in his thirties, begins to
become known. And he becomes known because from his pulpit
in Warsaw, he spoke the truth and people were so
(09:18):
hungry for it that he would not only speak the
truth to those within the church, but they put loudspeakers
outside the church so that thousands of people could gather
and hear what he had to say. And he was
a relentless critic of the Communist government. In nineteen eighty four,
an American journalist went to Warsaw to interview him, and
(09:40):
this is recorded in the December nineteen eighty four or
six I forget what readers digest an article called murder
of a Polish priest. It's reported what the conversation was
about between this American journalists and Father Yearsy. At one
point the journalist asked him, Father Yearsy, can you expect
(10:00):
to continue to do what you do to say the
things you are and not expect this government to do
something awful. They had already planted weapons in his apartment
and then staged a raid with cameras to say, ah, see,
father Yarsy's trying to start our revolution. They'd done a
million things to harass him.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
Well.
Speaker 1 (10:19):
Father Earsy's response to that journalist is memorable and chilling
at the same time. He said, they will kill me.
They will kill me, and then he went on to say,
but I cannot remain silent as members of my own
congregation disappear or jailed, tortured because of what they believe.
(10:45):
I cannot And he didn't. And not long thereafter, as
he was coming back to wors Off from the town
of Bidgosh from some priestly duties up there, his car
was stopped by a three secret police. The only reason
we know the details of what happened is the driver
(11:06):
of the car, a friend of Papa Yushka, escaped, and
later I was telling people about what had happened, then
forcing the government to put the three on trial. He
was tortured for two days and his body was thrown
into the Vistula.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
River, actually tied to a rock Yeah. The reason that's
important is they didn't want him to ever be found,
that's right.
Speaker 1 (11:29):
Yeah, No, they thought he would just be written off
as missing person. But when the government was forced to
put on trial the three secret police, one of them
broke down under testimony and said, I never knew that
a man could withstand such a beating. Those three were
(11:52):
given the prison sentences, but later when the furor died down,
the Communist government let him out, so they made a
deal to get off easy. But thereafter Father Yearsy was
known as John Paul the Second's favorite priest. He was
at is Poland's greatest martyr. When you visit his church today,
(12:17):
as I've done now several times. After you enter the church,
if you go behind the pulpit, you'll see the entire
wall is devoted to memorabilia of Father Yearsy, including pictures
of him and his boat on the pond with his
dog and you know, just ordinary everyday photos of a
guy who just wanted to do the right thing and
(12:39):
brought great strength to so many.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
And grew up sickly in just average and someone who
you would never point out or pick out of a
if he was part of a litter of dogs, who'd
be the last one chosen exactly yep ye and ends
up being the guy that that stood up for human
(13:02):
rights and freedom and dignity and decency of polls. Yeah,
what a legacy.
Speaker 1 (13:10):
And if you were to ask most polls today, if
you were to ask, how was it possible for the
Polish people throughout the nineteen eighties to ultimately lead the
way among the Eastern European satellite countries of the Soviet
Union to revolution to get getting rid of those totalitarian regimes?
How were Poles able to stand up against this? Father
(13:33):
papay Yushko's name will come up every time because we
had people like him, We looked to him. That's what
he wanted us to do. He gave his life for it.
How could we do any less? And so in nineteen
eighty nine, Poland became the first as the East Bloc
was breaking up, Poland became the first of the Soviet
satellite nations to have free elections and every single seat
(13:58):
that was disputed in those elections was lost by the
Communists and Poland was liberated. Two years later, the Soviet
Union itself collapsed. What a wonderful day, and it happened
because of people like Father.
Speaker 2 (14:11):
Papa Yushku, phenomenal story and no doubt a real hero.
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2 (14:21):
Thanks for joining us for this special series, An Army
of Normal Dead Folks. If Father Jersey or other episodes
have inspired you in general, or better yet, by acting
heroically in our time buying Larry Reid's book Real Heroes
where this story came from, or if you have story
ideas for this series, which would be cool. If you did,
(14:44):
please let me know I'd love to hear about it.
You can write me anytime at Bill at normal Folks
dot Us, and I promise I will respond. If you
enjoyed this episode, please share with friends on social let
people know about us. Prescribe to the podcast, rate it
and review it. Join the Army at Normalfolks dot us.
(15:06):
Consider becoming a premium member. There any and all of
these things that will help us grow an Army of
normal Folks. I'm Bill Courtney. Until next time, do what
you can
Host
Bill Courtney
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