October 31, 2025 • 22 mins
For Shop Talk, we tell the extraordinary story of Madison Park. If freed slaves can figure out how to buy a plantation and build a self-sustaining community, what do you think An Army of Normal Folks in 2025 can achieve?!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Everybody. It's still Courtney with an army and normal folks.
Welcome in to the shop. High Olex, Hi Bill, you're
in the shop. How's things going?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Apparably better than you? I got four and a half
hours of sleep last night, and I thought I was terrible,
and you said you got how much over how many days?
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Honestly six and a half and three days. I'm so tired,
it is ridiculous. Just I'm on the board of a
couple of things, and we've had board meetings.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
At the Hardward Lumber Association. I saw them post something.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
I'm like, yeah, that, And then then football practice has
come late, and then.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Another update playoffs is that you guys are definitely in
the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Oh yeah, we won the region. We're eight and one.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
It's crazy for what was the record last year?
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Oh they were good. They were all right, they were
like nine and three or something. Really okay, Yeah they
were bad. We're pretty good.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
And it's been a lot of fun, and the kids
are really improving and getting better at football or good
kids as they are. But so that and then Lisa
left for she's going overseas, and so they're feeling lonely.
I'm very lonely. I miss her. I woke up and
(01:20):
her cat was on the bed and I was like,
what's up.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
With your girls and cats? Now Molly's obsessed with her cat.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
And I'm like, this is not a worthy substitute for
my wife. The stupid cat sitting down here looking at me.
So anyway, yeah, I'm tired, but nonetheless we must forge on.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Hey, one random thought I had the other day. We
need to start calling you more big Daddy snowflake. No
you're yeah, yeah, I like your alternative persona in the.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Podcast that alone. We're not calling that at all.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Seventy six Shop Talk number seventy I got to explain
the context.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
So the kids have an ass is called Bill the
Daddy Snowflake because he was the whitest thing around. Yeah,
and it's hilarious. It's ridiculous. I'm gonna start saying it
a lot to just be prepared.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Yeah, okay, well please do not call me big Daddy snowflake.
All right, God, where are we're in? The shop number
seventy six. That's it, number seventy six. And interestingly, in
the anticipation of Shop Talk number seventy six, we got
a nice email from Army member, doctor Lisa Fox.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
She said, hey, y'all, seventy six is a big number
of my family.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
My mom graduated from high school in nineteen seventy six.
My dad graduated from Vet school in seventy six. My
son's dad was born in seventy six. My son's football number,
passed down to him from a graduating teammate, is seventy six.
So we're always trying to figure out odd reasons to
(02:49):
celebrate shop talk numbers, and today seventy six because doctor
Lisa Fox had the foresight to reach out to us
and tell us this is shop Talk seventy six in
honor doctor Lisa Fox and her family, and seventy six.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
And if you have numbers that are important to you,
emailing them to us.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Yeah, emailing to us anything beyond seventy six. That's kind
of hard.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Now.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
It would have been easier if we're doing that.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
For seventy seven cities something in the eighties. Oh, the eighties.
I can do like eighty six when I graduate high
school and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Oh, Boddy cares, Oh they do care, They do care
so much. All right, So I'm going to read an
excerpt from an incredible book that's titled Madison Park A
Place of Hope, and then we'll talk about it.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
You have no idea what's coming, but you're gonna love it.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Nobody does.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
For Shop Talk number seventy six, it's a pot luck
pot luck Shop Talk number seventy six.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Yeah, so Madison Park a Place of Hope.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Right after these brief messages from our gener sponsors.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Hey, everybody, welcome back to the shop.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Chop Talk seventy six in honor of doctor Lisa Fox's
entire family apparently, and Vidas got for the bell.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Someone actually commented to me the other day, why do
you guys ring the bell?
Speaker 1 (04:25):
It's annoying? And I felt like, who said it's annoying? Oh,
I said that listener, I know needs an adjustment.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah, And I almost felt like saying you, yeah, Veta Scott.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
One one because it says an army and normal folks
on it, because Veta Scott sent it to us. But
two because when you walk into an old shop where
farmers would be hanging around holding court in the morning,
drinking their coffee or whatever, there was a bell on
the door, and when the door opened and you walked
into the old time shop where people would hang around
(05:00):
and actually talk about stuff. The bell would ring when
the door opened, so when you walk into the shop
for shop, talk our bell rings. It's also a good
re explanation for listeners. Why we do it anyway? Keep going, Bill, Yeah,
that's it. So I hope that really bothered the listener
(05:20):
needed adjustment.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
That was good. Okay, thanks, All right, here we go.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
I'm going to read an excerpt from Eric Motley's book
that's titled Madison Park, a Place of Hope that was
featured on the website Faith Gateway, and then we'll chat
about it. Dating back to its earliest days, Madison Park's
most prominent feature was the absence of white faces. It
was built by the hands of people seeking not just
(05:47):
a sense of community, but a safe haven free from
the perils of the recent enslavement. When President Lincoln signed
the Emancipation Proclamation on January one, eighteen sixty three, three
million men and women were set free. At least in theory.
The proclamation immediately affected only twenty thousand to fifty thousand
(06:09):
slaves where the Union Army had taken control. It wasn't
until a full two years later, when the Civil War ended,
that the proclamation systematically freed thousands of men and women,
with nearly all liberated by July of eighteen sixty five.
With almost nothing more than the clothes on their backs,
a little farming knowledge, and an extraordinary capacity for resilience,
(06:33):
they moved their families to find land where they could work,
land that the first time would yield profit, prosperity for
them and not a master. But freedom did not come
without fear. Former slaves were ignorant of legal constraints and
general business practices, ironic given that they'd been legally constrained
(06:53):
all their lives. But most couldn't write their names. Some
only had one name until they chose to second. Their
perspectives and understandings of how the world worked was based
on what they'd overheard and seen from their master's conversations
and transactions. Could they succeed on their own? Would they
become victims of carpetbaggers and scallywags who migrated the South
(07:17):
to take advantage of the social turmoil caused by the
onset of reconstruction? Would their freedom be short lived? What
if resentful plantation owners, angry over the loss of their
quote property, chose to retaliate as unequal as their lot
in life had been to that point, they cherished a
conviction that they were the equals of any other person,
(07:40):
blessed by their creator, with inaliable rights. To paraph a
civil rights leader Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth, who spoke about our
enslaved ancestors appetite to be free, A fire got started
deep in their souls, and it could not be put out.
What little is known about Madison Park's origins is due
to that efforts of African American historian doctor Gwynn Patten
(08:03):
and her research among the Madison family papers housed at
Trenholm State Technical College in Montgomery, Alabama. Eli Madison, the
patriarch of the community bearing his name, was born in
Alabama in eighteen thirty nine. According to stories passed down,
he was both physically and intellectually, a strong man with
(08:25):
an indestructible sense of self respect. Doctor Patten notes that
his slave master trusted him yet feared him. In eighteen
sixty five, after the conclusion of the Civil War, Madison
set out with his half brother kill Us Marshall and
close friend Gadson Draw, along with their wives, to establish
(08:45):
what would become were the states first free African American communities. Soon,
other families from Atauga County, about twenty miles north of Montgomery,
joined the pioneers in Hunter's Station miles down the road. Next,
Madison moved the families to King Hill, thirteen miles away.
(09:06):
They were closer to the city, but still deep enough
in the country to secure the amount of areable land
they needed for the settlement they envisioned. Within a few years,
the families had accumulated enough capital to buy a substantial plot.
Only modestesized properties were available in king Hill, but Flatbush,
which is near Watoomka to the northeast, had a number
(09:29):
of plantations for sale land that belonged to financially ruined
white Southerners. So the families pulled their resources in eighteen
eighty and made a down payment on the May plantation.
Within two years, Madison paid James and Molly May two
three hundred and eighty dollars in exchange for the deed
to five hundred and sixty acres, becoming the only recorded
(09:51):
group of free slaves in Alabama to purchase an entire estate.
Madison and his group trusted the lord's promise to supply
their needs, settling their families on the plantation. They cleared brush,
tilled the sandy fields, and planted trees, including oaks, whose
height and grandeur now rain its testaments to their industriousness,
(10:13):
even while shading what would become their graves. Later, they
established a sawmill and a gristmill, and bought a cotton gin. Unincorporated,
without a mayor or town council, the community was organized
around the common good, within the framework of national state laws.
Residents made the rules, governed and cared for one another,
(10:33):
and met it out what discipline and correction a situation required.
It was a community where when a black person spoke,
black people listened. The one thing the town fathers hadn't
done was to give their community a name. One night,
the train that regularly passed along the edge of the
hamlet derailed. The booming noises the railroad cars exploded could
(10:56):
be heard for miles, rousing them men from their beds.
Madison and others struggled to put out the spreading fire
or at least contain it, tend to the injured train crew,
and keep watch over the debris scattered in the surrounding
field along the tracks. They didn't care that it was
white people's property. They prized their community's integrity too much
(11:16):
to tarnish it by looting at daybreak. When officials arrived
from Montgomery to investigate and secure the cargo, the all
white posseuous prize to find order, an outcome they deemed
impossible among African Americans. When the story reached the rest
of Montgomery's citienory, Madison's community was held up as a
(11:36):
model for black people. From that day on, it was
called Madison's Park and gradually Madison Park. The name was
not merely an honor bestowed upon the founder. It spoke
to the unifying sentiment that we were Madison's children. Despite
their lack of formal education, these pioneers took concrete steps
to care for their souls, minds, and bodies. They desired
(12:00):
freedom not only from slavery, but from poverty. Realizing their
need to remain spiritually liberated, sometime in eighteen eighty one,
they established a church in the Methodist tradition, an unsurprising
choice given Methodist founder John Wesley's outspoken opposition to slavery.
The church met first under bush trees, then moving into
(12:22):
a long cabin that protected them from the wintry winds.
Two years later, Kate and Kilis Marshall donated the land
on Old Watumka Highway, on which today's church, which Eli
Madison named the Union Chapel African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church
still sits. A few years later, founding families cleared twenty
(12:44):
five more acres to Great Park, shaded by oak trees
that lined its perimeter. The land was a vast green
lawn broken up by gravel sidewalks, play areas for children,
and a central pavilion. The park doubled as a meeting
place in vacation spot since most residents couldn't afford to travel.
I don't know the story of my great great grandfather,
(13:05):
John Motley Seniors enslavement, whether he worked in the plantation
house or in the cotton fields, and how his owners
treated him, but I do know that he was one
of the freedmen who left Ottouga County to join Eli
Madison just before sunrise one summer morning in eighteen eighty.
Upon arriving, he and his group of former slaves gathered
(13:27):
in an open air temple of arch trees to make
a promise under God's heaven and on the altar of
God's greened earth to start their own community, take responsibility
for one another, and make a success of their lives. Later,
he was among the pioneers who moved the stones to
build the foundation of Union Chapel Church. This is my community.
(13:49):
Madison Park does not exist on the radar of many
navigational systems or printed maps. Except for those who work
in the municipal government and public schools of Montgomery, or
who know of people and know the story of our community.
Madison Park, no doubt, is invisible and invisible. Madison Park
is an incredible idea for me because to those who
(14:11):
held from this place, Madison Park is as much an
idea as it is a living, breathing organism. To those
who have never heard of our little community, it may
not exist. But to the founders who bought the land,
cleared the brush, and laid the cornerstones, and to their
descendants who still care for it, whether they live there
(14:31):
or not, it is as large as America. The seeds
of America are planted and nurtured in the hearts and
minds of Madison Park citizens over one hundred and thirty
five years ago, and the people there have been trying
ever since to make America work for them, the same
as people do in the less obscure places where lights
(14:51):
shine bright and all the roads are paved. Eli Madison's
vision of a self reliant and sustaining community where people
could come and work to improve their state of life
remains the vision of its inhabitants today. Over the last decade,
as I have publicly shared the story of Madison Park
at Washington dinner parties, rotary meetings, church work, and with friends,
(15:15):
others have a firm that they too once lived in
a similar place. So in many ways, Madison Park has
become a metaphor of places that can be seen invisible
or nonexistent. These places still exist, but are their days numbered?
Are they at risk of becoming extinct in the face
of increasingly atomization. I can only hope not. Despite the
(15:37):
changing landscape and encroaching city, the same strong pride and
commitment to community remains strong among the people of Madison Park.
It is planted deep in the earth, carefully and powerfully
cultivated by my great great grandfather and of freed slaves
who began the community and gave it its name. The
history of Madison Park is tied inextricably to my of
(16:00):
who I am. It is a spiritual locust that continues
to offer interfuge, solace, instruction, and most importantly meaning, in
the ever changing flux of daily existence. Wherever I go,
Madison Park goes with me, one of our reflect On
the roadblocks that I faced, I'm so grateful for the
(16:20):
Madison Park community. They set me on a different path
than the external features in my life. My race, relative poverty,
rural Southern roots, and the absence of biological parents would
seem to predict. The people of Madison Park bestowed the
gift of grace which I can never repay. Life is
like that. Blessings come to us so relentlessly, we are
(16:44):
forever in a deficit position. We never get all the
thank yous and goodbyes properly said, which leaves us each
one living with a burden of gratitude. What a great story.
When I was in high school, as I'm reading this,
(17:07):
when I was in high school, there were two communities,
one was called berry Hill and one was called Bridgewater
that were near where I lived, and they were very similar.
They were all African American communities, but great communities that
had churches and stores, and you know, there were one
(17:30):
two lane road towns. But the people that came from
those communities were proud of those communities, and those those
communities propped each propped each other up, and they were
by no doubt. There was no influence there, but the
people that lived there supported each other, were happy. And
as I'm reading this, I'm remembering those communities and how
(17:53):
important those communities were to the to the kids, because
I was a kid then, but the kids that came
from those I mean, we played sports together and went
to school together and everything else. Those kids were great kids,
and I think it was because they had those supportive
communities they came from.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Pretty amazing.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
How cool that some freed slaves bought a plantation moved
it together.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Pretty crazy, you know, I know this is kind of
all subject, but also five hundred and sixty something acres
for twenty five hundred bucks, Holy smokes. But I loved
the deal that they protected all of the goods that
were on the train from looting because they wanted people
to respect their home and know that, you know, this
(18:41):
is the kind of people we are. And then they
apparently won over the people from Montgomery because they held
it up as the way community should be.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
So to your point about sense of community, I almost
pulled from another excerpt if I didn't. But so Eric
was like behind in school, and like either his aunt
or his grandma got before the church that Sunday and said,
little Eric's like basically behind in school. We need your help,
no kid, we need more books. And then then like
dozens of books are being dropped off on their front porch.
(19:13):
And then they started having tutoring sessions for him, and
it turned into tutoring sessions for the entire community's kids,
and like their goal was to get him to college.
She went to college. She actually was part of overseeing
presidential appointments, you know for one of the past white houses.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Are you kidding?
Speaker 2 (19:28):
He's now the deputy director of the Smithsonian's National Gallery
of Art. So you know, this guy from this little community.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
That's that was my question. Where is he now? Usually
what he.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Is the deputy director of the Smithsonian's National Gallery of Art.
Have you gone in the art Museum of the Smithsonian.
I think, yeah, it's actually a really good art museum.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
This little this guy from little old Madison Port is
now that Yeah, it's pretty amazing. Obviously she read this,
she can tell us as a very intelligent dude who
has a real good command of not only the English language,
but the ability to convey thought and do it in
(20:14):
a I mean, there was a couple of times in
here that you know, I was like some people when
you read their words, you can feel what they're feeling.
And he was able to convey that.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Man.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I actually wanted to interview him, but he's not doing
interviews about the book anymore.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Why not. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
I would say I disagree with them, but thanks for
the great writing, Eric, Thanks for doing it.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Thanks Eric, because that's pretty cool. So what do we
get from this?
Speaker 1 (20:39):
I think we get from from this what we've been
talking about over and over and over again, that you know,
one man can make a difference, and.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
An all army living together and supporting each other can
make a difference.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yeah, and mister Madison didn't have two Nichols drubbed together.
Was a former slave, and he created a legacy now
that is four generations old, and his descendants are now
directing at the Smithsonian. And it's all because he served
(21:14):
people in his community and built this place for them.
To have a safe place to live in five and grow.
And I think the moral of the whole story is
an army of normal folks has been the answer all
the way back since eighteen sixty five and remains the
answer today. And the words written on these pages and
(21:35):
the story that we're just being told is just another
example of it.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
And some former slaves can figure it out, so can we.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Yeah, no kidding, Yeah for sure. So that's it. Everybody,
shop Talk number seventy six.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Join the army, engage in your community, do what you
can do. If former slaves can build one hundred and
seventy five year legacy that reveals itself in the words
of what we just read to you, certainly you can
find a way to serve your community today. Shop Talk
(22:09):
number seventy six, thanks for joining us. If you enjoyed
this episode, please rate it, review it, send me ideas
for shop Talk and for Army Normal Folks. Guests at
Bill at normal folks dot Us. Join the podcast what Else.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Sign up to join the army in normal Folks out
of us. We'll see you next week.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
We'll see you next week.
Everybody. It's still Courtney with an army and normal folks.
Welcome in to the shop. High Olex, Hi Bill, you're
in the shop. How's things going?
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Apparably better than you? I got four and a half
hours of sleep last night, and I thought I was terrible,
and you said you got how much over how many days?
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Honestly six and a half and three days. I'm so tired,
it is ridiculous. Just I'm on the board of a
couple of things, and we've had board meetings.
Speaker 2 (00:35):
At the Hardward Lumber Association. I saw them post something.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
I'm like, yeah, that, And then then football practice has
come late, and then.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Another update playoffs is that you guys are definitely in
the playoffs.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Oh yeah, we won the region. We're eight and one.
Speaker 2 (00:51):
It's crazy for what was the record last year?
Speaker 3 (00:54):
Oh they were good. They were all right, they were
like nine and three or something. Really okay, Yeah they
were bad. We're pretty good.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
And it's been a lot of fun, and the kids
are really improving and getting better at football or good
kids as they are. But so that and then Lisa
left for she's going overseas, and so they're feeling lonely.
I'm very lonely. I miss her. I woke up and
(01:20):
her cat was on the bed and I was like,
what's up.
Speaker 2 (01:24):
With your girls and cats? Now Molly's obsessed with her cat.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
And I'm like, this is not a worthy substitute for
my wife. The stupid cat sitting down here looking at me.
So anyway, yeah, I'm tired, but nonetheless we must forge on.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
Hey, one random thought I had the other day. We
need to start calling you more big Daddy snowflake. No
you're yeah, yeah, I like your alternative persona in the.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Podcast that alone. We're not calling that at all.
Speaker 1 (01:49):
Seventy six Shop Talk number seventy I got to explain
the context.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
So the kids have an ass is called Bill the
Daddy Snowflake because he was the whitest thing around. Yeah,
and it's hilarious. It's ridiculous. I'm gonna start saying it
a lot to just be prepared.
Speaker 1 (02:02):
Yeah, okay, well please do not call me big Daddy snowflake.
All right, God, where are we're in? The shop number
seventy six. That's it, number seventy six. And interestingly, in
the anticipation of Shop Talk number seventy six, we got
a nice email from Army member, doctor Lisa Fox.
Speaker 3 (02:24):
She said, hey, y'all, seventy six is a big number
of my family.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
My mom graduated from high school in nineteen seventy six.
My dad graduated from Vet school in seventy six. My
son's dad was born in seventy six. My son's football number,
passed down to him from a graduating teammate, is seventy six.
So we're always trying to figure out odd reasons to
(02:49):
celebrate shop talk numbers, and today seventy six because doctor
Lisa Fox had the foresight to reach out to us
and tell us this is shop Talk seventy six in
honor doctor Lisa Fox and her family, and seventy six.
Speaker 2 (03:04):
And if you have numbers that are important to you,
emailing them to us.
Speaker 3 (03:08):
Yeah, emailing to us anything beyond seventy six. That's kind
of hard.
Speaker 1 (03:11):
Now.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
It would have been easier if we're doing that.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
For seventy seven cities something in the eighties. Oh, the eighties.
I can do like eighty six when I graduate high
school and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (03:20):
Oh, Boddy cares, Oh they do care, They do care
so much. All right, So I'm going to read an
excerpt from an incredible book that's titled Madison Park A
Place of Hope, and then we'll talk about it.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
You have no idea what's coming, but you're gonna love it.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Nobody does.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
For Shop Talk number seventy six, it's a pot luck
pot luck Shop Talk number seventy six.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
Yeah, so Madison Park a Place of Hope.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Right after these brief messages from our gener sponsors.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
Hey, everybody, welcome back to the shop.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Chop Talk seventy six in honor of doctor Lisa Fox's
entire family apparently, and Vidas got for the bell.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
Someone actually commented to me the other day, why do
you guys ring the bell?
Speaker 1 (04:25):
It's annoying? And I felt like, who said it's annoying? Oh,
I said that listener, I know needs an adjustment.
Speaker 2 (04:33):
Yeah, And I almost felt like saying you, yeah, Veta Scott.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
One one because it says an army and normal folks
on it, because Veta Scott sent it to us. But
two because when you walk into an old shop where
farmers would be hanging around holding court in the morning,
drinking their coffee or whatever, there was a bell on
the door, and when the door opened and you walked
into the old time shop where people would hang around
(05:00):
and actually talk about stuff. The bell would ring when
the door opened, so when you walk into the shop
for shop, talk our bell rings. It's also a good
re explanation for listeners. Why we do it anyway? Keep going, Bill, Yeah,
that's it. So I hope that really bothered the listener
(05:20):
needed adjustment.
Speaker 3 (05:21):
That was good. Okay, thanks, All right, here we go.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
I'm going to read an excerpt from Eric Motley's book
that's titled Madison Park, a Place of Hope that was
featured on the website Faith Gateway, and then we'll chat
about it. Dating back to its earliest days, Madison Park's
most prominent feature was the absence of white faces. It
was built by the hands of people seeking not just
(05:47):
a sense of community, but a safe haven free from
the perils of the recent enslavement. When President Lincoln signed
the Emancipation Proclamation on January one, eighteen sixty three, three
million men and women were set free. At least in theory.
The proclamation immediately affected only twenty thousand to fifty thousand
(06:09):
slaves where the Union Army had taken control. It wasn't
until a full two years later, when the Civil War ended,
that the proclamation systematically freed thousands of men and women,
with nearly all liberated by July of eighteen sixty five.
With almost nothing more than the clothes on their backs,
a little farming knowledge, and an extraordinary capacity for resilience,
(06:33):
they moved their families to find land where they could work,
land that the first time would yield profit, prosperity for
them and not a master. But freedom did not come
without fear. Former slaves were ignorant of legal constraints and
general business practices, ironic given that they'd been legally constrained
(06:53):
all their lives. But most couldn't write their names. Some
only had one name until they chose to second. Their
perspectives and understandings of how the world worked was based
on what they'd overheard and seen from their master's conversations
and transactions. Could they succeed on their own? Would they
become victims of carpetbaggers and scallywags who migrated the South
(07:17):
to take advantage of the social turmoil caused by the
onset of reconstruction? Would their freedom be short lived? What
if resentful plantation owners, angry over the loss of their
quote property, chose to retaliate as unequal as their lot
in life had been to that point, they cherished a
conviction that they were the equals of any other person,
(07:40):
blessed by their creator, with inaliable rights. To paraph a
civil rights leader Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth, who spoke about our
enslaved ancestors appetite to be free, A fire got started
deep in their souls, and it could not be put out.
What little is known about Madison Park's origins is due
to that efforts of African American historian doctor Gwynn Patten
(08:03):
and her research among the Madison family papers housed at
Trenholm State Technical College in Montgomery, Alabama. Eli Madison, the
patriarch of the community bearing his name, was born in
Alabama in eighteen thirty nine. According to stories passed down,
he was both physically and intellectually, a strong man with
(08:25):
an indestructible sense of self respect. Doctor Patten notes that
his slave master trusted him yet feared him. In eighteen
sixty five, after the conclusion of the Civil War, Madison
set out with his half brother kill Us Marshall and
close friend Gadson Draw, along with their wives, to establish
(08:45):
what would become were the states first free African American communities. Soon,
other families from Atauga County, about twenty miles north of Montgomery,
joined the pioneers in Hunter's Station miles down the road. Next,
Madison moved the families to King Hill, thirteen miles away.
(09:06):
They were closer to the city, but still deep enough
in the country to secure the amount of areable land
they needed for the settlement they envisioned. Within a few years,
the families had accumulated enough capital to buy a substantial plot.
Only modestesized properties were available in king Hill, but Flatbush,
which is near Watoomka to the northeast, had a number
(09:29):
of plantations for sale land that belonged to financially ruined
white Southerners. So the families pulled their resources in eighteen
eighty and made a down payment on the May plantation.
Within two years, Madison paid James and Molly May two
three hundred and eighty dollars in exchange for the deed
to five hundred and sixty acres, becoming the only recorded
(09:51):
group of free slaves in Alabama to purchase an entire estate.
Madison and his group trusted the lord's promise to supply
their needs, settling their families on the plantation. They cleared brush,
tilled the sandy fields, and planted trees, including oaks, whose
height and grandeur now rain its testaments to their industriousness,
(10:13):
even while shading what would become their graves. Later, they
established a sawmill and a gristmill, and bought a cotton gin. Unincorporated,
without a mayor or town council, the community was organized
around the common good, within the framework of national state laws.
Residents made the rules, governed and cared for one another,
(10:33):
and met it out what discipline and correction a situation required.
It was a community where when a black person spoke,
black people listened. The one thing the town fathers hadn't
done was to give their community a name. One night,
the train that regularly passed along the edge of the
hamlet derailed. The booming noises the railroad cars exploded could
(10:56):
be heard for miles, rousing them men from their beds.
Madison and others struggled to put out the spreading fire
or at least contain it, tend to the injured train crew,
and keep watch over the debris scattered in the surrounding
field along the tracks. They didn't care that it was
white people's property. They prized their community's integrity too much
(11:16):
to tarnish it by looting at daybreak. When officials arrived
from Montgomery to investigate and secure the cargo, the all
white posseuous prize to find order, an outcome they deemed
impossible among African Americans. When the story reached the rest
of Montgomery's citienory, Madison's community was held up as a
(11:36):
model for black people. From that day on, it was
called Madison's Park and gradually Madison Park. The name was
not merely an honor bestowed upon the founder. It spoke
to the unifying sentiment that we were Madison's children. Despite
their lack of formal education, these pioneers took concrete steps
to care for their souls, minds, and bodies. They desired
(12:00):
freedom not only from slavery, but from poverty. Realizing their
need to remain spiritually liberated, sometime in eighteen eighty one,
they established a church in the Methodist tradition, an unsurprising
choice given Methodist founder John Wesley's outspoken opposition to slavery.
The church met first under bush trees, then moving into
(12:22):
a long cabin that protected them from the wintry winds.
Two years later, Kate and Kilis Marshall donated the land
on Old Watumka Highway, on which today's church, which Eli
Madison named the Union Chapel African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church
still sits. A few years later, founding families cleared twenty
(12:44):
five more acres to Great Park, shaded by oak trees
that lined its perimeter. The land was a vast green
lawn broken up by gravel sidewalks, play areas for children,
and a central pavilion. The park doubled as a meeting
place in vacation spot since most residents couldn't afford to travel.
I don't know the story of my great great grandfather,
(13:05):
John Motley Seniors enslavement, whether he worked in the plantation
house or in the cotton fields, and how his owners
treated him, but I do know that he was one
of the freedmen who left Ottouga County to join Eli
Madison just before sunrise one summer morning in eighteen eighty.
Upon arriving, he and his group of former slaves gathered
(13:27):
in an open air temple of arch trees to make
a promise under God's heaven and on the altar of
God's greened earth to start their own community, take responsibility
for one another, and make a success of their lives. Later,
he was among the pioneers who moved the stones to
build the foundation of Union Chapel Church. This is my community.
(13:49):
Madison Park does not exist on the radar of many
navigational systems or printed maps. Except for those who work
in the municipal government and public schools of Montgomery, or
who know of people and know the story of our community.
Madison Park, no doubt, is invisible and invisible. Madison Park
is an incredible idea for me because to those who
(14:11):
held from this place, Madison Park is as much an
idea as it is a living, breathing organism. To those
who have never heard of our little community, it may
not exist. But to the founders who bought the land,
cleared the brush, and laid the cornerstones, and to their
descendants who still care for it, whether they live there
(14:31):
or not, it is as large as America. The seeds
of America are planted and nurtured in the hearts and
minds of Madison Park citizens over one hundred and thirty
five years ago, and the people there have been trying
ever since to make America work for them, the same
as people do in the less obscure places where lights
(14:51):
shine bright and all the roads are paved. Eli Madison's
vision of a self reliant and sustaining community where people
could come and work to improve their state of life
remains the vision of its inhabitants today. Over the last decade,
as I have publicly shared the story of Madison Park
at Washington dinner parties, rotary meetings, church work, and with friends,
(15:15):
others have a firm that they too once lived in
a similar place. So in many ways, Madison Park has
become a metaphor of places that can be seen invisible
or nonexistent. These places still exist, but are their days numbered?
Are they at risk of becoming extinct in the face
of increasingly atomization. I can only hope not. Despite the
(15:37):
changing landscape and encroaching city, the same strong pride and
commitment to community remains strong among the people of Madison Park.
It is planted deep in the earth, carefully and powerfully
cultivated by my great great grandfather and of freed slaves
who began the community and gave it its name. The
history of Madison Park is tied inextricably to my of
(16:00):
who I am. It is a spiritual locust that continues
to offer interfuge, solace, instruction, and most importantly meaning, in
the ever changing flux of daily existence. Wherever I go,
Madison Park goes with me, one of our reflect On
the roadblocks that I faced, I'm so grateful for the
(16:20):
Madison Park community. They set me on a different path
than the external features in my life. My race, relative poverty,
rural Southern roots, and the absence of biological parents would
seem to predict. The people of Madison Park bestowed the
gift of grace which I can never repay. Life is
like that. Blessings come to us so relentlessly, we are
(16:44):
forever in a deficit position. We never get all the
thank yous and goodbyes properly said, which leaves us each
one living with a burden of gratitude. What a great story.
When I was in high school, as I'm reading this,
(17:07):
when I was in high school, there were two communities,
one was called berry Hill and one was called Bridgewater
that were near where I lived, and they were very similar.
They were all African American communities, but great communities that
had churches and stores, and you know, there were one
(17:30):
two lane road towns. But the people that came from
those communities were proud of those communities, and those those
communities propped each propped each other up, and they were
by no doubt. There was no influence there, but the
people that lived there supported each other, were happy. And
as I'm reading this, I'm remembering those communities and how
(17:53):
important those communities were to the to the kids, because
I was a kid then, but the kids that came
from those I mean, we played sports together and went
to school together and everything else. Those kids were great kids,
and I think it was because they had those supportive
communities they came from.
Speaker 3 (18:11):
Pretty amazing.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
How cool that some freed slaves bought a plantation moved
it together.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Pretty crazy, you know, I know this is kind of
all subject, but also five hundred and sixty something acres
for twenty five hundred bucks, Holy smokes. But I loved
the deal that they protected all of the goods that
were on the train from looting because they wanted people
to respect their home and know that, you know, this
(18:41):
is the kind of people we are. And then they
apparently won over the people from Montgomery because they held
it up as the way community should be.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
So to your point about sense of community, I almost
pulled from another excerpt if I didn't. But so Eric
was like behind in school, and like either his aunt
or his grandma got before the church that Sunday and said,
little Eric's like basically behind in school. We need your help,
no kid, we need more books. And then then like
dozens of books are being dropped off on their front porch.
(19:13):
And then they started having tutoring sessions for him, and
it turned into tutoring sessions for the entire community's kids,
and like their goal was to get him to college.
She went to college. She actually was part of overseeing
presidential appointments, you know for one of the past white houses.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
Are you kidding?
Speaker 2 (19:28):
He's now the deputy director of the Smithsonian's National Gallery
of Art. So you know, this guy from this little community.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
That's that was my question. Where is he now? Usually
what he.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Is the deputy director of the Smithsonian's National Gallery of Art.
Have you gone in the art Museum of the Smithsonian.
I think, yeah, it's actually a really good art museum.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
Yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (19:52):
This little this guy from little old Madison Port is
now that Yeah, it's pretty amazing. Obviously she read this,
she can tell us as a very intelligent dude who
has a real good command of not only the English language,
but the ability to convey thought and do it in
(20:14):
a I mean, there was a couple of times in
here that you know, I was like some people when
you read their words, you can feel what they're feeling.
And he was able to convey that.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Man.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
I actually wanted to interview him, but he's not doing
interviews about the book anymore.
Speaker 3 (20:28):
Why not. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
I would say I disagree with them, but thanks for
the great writing, Eric, Thanks for doing it.
Speaker 3 (20:34):
Thanks Eric, because that's pretty cool. So what do we
get from this?
Speaker 1 (20:39):
I think we get from from this what we've been
talking about over and over and over again, that you know,
one man can make a difference, and.
Speaker 2 (20:50):
An all army living together and supporting each other can
make a difference.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
Yeah, and mister Madison didn't have two Nichols drubbed together.
Was a former slave, and he created a legacy now
that is four generations old, and his descendants are now
directing at the Smithsonian. And it's all because he served
(21:14):
people in his community and built this place for them.
To have a safe place to live in five and grow.
And I think the moral of the whole story is
an army of normal folks has been the answer all
the way back since eighteen sixty five and remains the
answer today. And the words written on these pages and
(21:35):
the story that we're just being told is just another
example of it.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
And some former slaves can figure it out, so can we.
Speaker 3 (21:41):
Yeah, no kidding, Yeah for sure. So that's it. Everybody,
shop Talk number seventy six.
Speaker 1 (21:47):
Join the army, engage in your community, do what you
can do. If former slaves can build one hundred and
seventy five year legacy that reveals itself in the words
of what we just read to you, certainly you can
find a way to serve your community today. Shop Talk
(22:09):
number seventy six, thanks for joining us. If you enjoyed
this episode, please rate it, review it, send me ideas
for shop Talk and for Army Normal Folks. Guests at
Bill at normal folks dot Us. Join the podcast what Else.
Speaker 2 (22:25):
Sign up to join the army in normal Folks out
of us. We'll see you next week.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
We'll see you next week.
Host
Bill Courtney
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