September 12, 2023 • 33 mins
When Gina’s son was stillborn, she asked Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep for one of their volunteer photographers to capture her only moments with David at the hospital and this remembrance photography is her most cherished possession. There’s 1,700 volunteer photographers around the world who’ve given free portrait sessions to 70,000 families like hers and Gina is now the CEO of this nonprofit that means so much to her. But there’s still many communities without volunteers and hopefully the Army can help.
Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premium
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Hey, everybody, it's Bill Courtney with an army of normal folks.
And we will continue with part two of our conversation
with Gina Harris right after these brief messages from our
generous sponsors. Now we continue with Gina on the news
(00:31):
she received only four months after the loss of her
son David.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
So we have prig that right away, and.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Are you excited or scared a little of both?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
But you know, I've read story after story and typically
people don't have multiple losses like this. So we and
they couldn't find anything genetic or chromosomally, so it was
just kind of, for lack of better words, of fluke
that it happened. And so things were going fairly well,
but then they said the earliest you can come in
(01:06):
is sixteen weeks into the pregnancy. So we went in
and the paranetologist is looking at everything and he got
really quiet, and my husband and I just looked at
each other and we knew. So he said, go ahead
and go into my office, and I mean, he just
he said nothing, and he said, your baby has I
(01:31):
don't know if he knew everything exactly at that time,
but we ended up finding out that our baby had
cystic hiicromas and high drops. And cystic hiicromas are cysts
around the neck and then high drops a severe swelling
and fluid build up all around the baby's organs. They
weren't able to tell the gender of the baby at
that point, and they knew like that we wanted to
(01:53):
carry our baby as long as possible. They were surprised
that he was even alive still with his condition, and
then twenty four weeks into the pregnancy, they just had
me come in every week because I wasn't going to
be able to fill him move and they said his
heart stopped. So they said, well, you know, you can
(02:17):
go home for a few days or you can induce.
So I'm like, what am I going to do at home?
So we went to the hospital and they induced labor
at that same time. So this is now June, after
the October we lost David. While we were at the hospital,
we got a call from the company that was doing
(02:37):
the headstone for our son David, and we just were like,
let's hold off. There was a plot at the cemetery
right next to David, there's a baby section, and we
buried them in the cemetery where my dad and my
sister are buried, and all of my mom's side of
the family, like the six generations back.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
I'm doing the math on this year. If you got
pregnant four months after and then this happened at twenty
four weeks, we're not even a year removed from the
loss of your first job.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
No, yeah, So, but I knew that plot was open
next to David, and I didn't want to give up hope.
But I also knew that if that plot got taken,
I'd be really devastated that our second baby. Wouldn't it
be by his big brother. And so I'm in the
hospital and so I called the cemetery. Weeks before the
(03:36):
baby's heart stopped and I called the cemetery. I'm like,
can you just hold it for me? And I remember
we went out there on Father's Day, right before our
second baby was born, and I'm like, I hope we're
not back here for two But the heart stopped and
we delivered our baby and we named him Ethan. His
(03:58):
condition was really, really sick beer. I had a camera
in my bag, and I thought about just taking pictures
of his hands and feet, or maybe of him wrapped
in a blanket of us just holding them. But I
didn't do that, and we didn't want to bring a
photographer out because his condition just was really tough. Yeah yeah,
(04:22):
And so because regret in my life, I didn't get
photographs of Ethan and in the years following, and this
is just to say what these photographs do. Oftentimes we
felt like people would forget Ethan because I didn't have
the photographs. That David would get mentioned, but not Ethan.
(04:42):
And that's the power of the photographs. I know what
it's like to have the photographs and to start that
journey with them, and I know what it's like to
not have them. And the photographs mean everything. But Ethan
was the inspiration behind our medical Affiliate program and now
they made down to sleep because if there are forty
(05:05):
thousand babies we could be photographing every year and we're
only doing ten percent of them. We wanted to find
ways we could do that, and there are situations it's
not can do so for a photographer to come out,
or maybe a family might feel uncomfortable. And so we
have a program that trains nurses. They get continuing education units,
(05:27):
we teach them how to photograph the babies. Most nurses
are already doing that. They would send us photographs, we'd
retouch them, but it wasn't a formal program, so we
formalized it. They get the continuing education units the with
parent permission, the nurses upload the images onto our online
our secure online gallery, and our digital retouch artists retouch
(05:49):
those images so babies like Ethan can be photographed and
families can receive something. So we also have that program
available for the nurses. Ideally, the photographer is going to
come in and obviously do the great job as a photographer,
but when they're not available, then we have that for
(06:10):
the nurses. And the thing that now I lay me
down to sleep does is the digital retouching. We deliver
the images in black and white, and we never changed
the appearance of a baby. But there's different things that
happen with a baby when they pass away, like bruising
and skin tears, so we do retouch those. But you
(06:32):
know one baby I'm thinking of that had six toes, well,
we don't edit out one of the toes. That's something
that made that particular baby nique.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
I've seen a picture and to me, it looked like
a sleeping baby in a blanket. It was actually a beautiful, warm,
loving picture. And gosh, this sounds fall to say, but
I didn't feel like I was looking at a dead child.
I just look like I was looking at somebody's baby.
(07:03):
And once I saw that picture and I read what
you've had to say, I started to get it, you
know what I mean, even as someone who had been
through it. So you and Rob have got to be
having some serious discussions about having a family at this point.
(07:23):
I mean, sure we were too traumatic situations. Are you
thinking no more children?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Well, you know, at that point, we were grieving the
loss of our babies, but also the fact that we
may never have children.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
And grieving that as well.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yes, And so we weren't sure what to do because
the doctors couldn't find any connection and the only thing
we were told was maybe you can't have a healthy
boy because maybe one of my ex chromosomes was passing
on to the boy. But that was just still a theory.
And so my husband and I did try two more times,
(08:04):
and those pregnancies ended a miscarriage, and at that point
we didn't know what we were going to do. And
it was twenty eleven and I found out about now
I lead me down to sleep. They were looking for
a CEO. I wasn't looking for a job. I just
came across it just being a nonprofit, and so I
reached out to Cheryl, one of the founders, and.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Who knew the strength of it more than you.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yes, yeah, And so Cheryl said, we just hired the position,
but send your resume anyway. And because of where I
had worked before, we had a lot of government grants,
so I didn't have to make a resume because those
always had to go in with the grants we applied for,
And so I just sent it on with a letter.
And then a week later they called me and they
said that the person they offered it to decline, and
(08:52):
so they brought me in and the interview was more like,
how can we get you to work here? So it
was it was a really big move for me because
I didn't know what we were going to be doing
about children. I had no idea, but we were just
kind of putting a pause on it. And by that point,
I think, I'm what thirty seven, thirty eight years old.
My clock's ticken, and we just we weren't sure. We
(09:15):
kind of loosely started looking at adoption, but we weren't sure,
and then I literally was out. Now I lead me
down to sleep, for it would have been two months
and I found out I was pregnant. We were not
planning it, like.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
It's not I mean, listen, this is one of the deepest,
most heart tagging podcasts I've ever done. And typically I
do a lot of off off the cuff jokes in
the middle of stuff, but I just I can't must
(09:53):
them right now. But I do have to say I
can't help but noticed the irony that after everything you've
been through and you're thirty seven years old, and you
take a job as the director of this unbelievable volunteer
(10:13):
nonprofit organization who has meant so much to you and
your husband and your family, and then you get pregnant again.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
And I don't know how it happened either. I didn't
even see him. I was leaving my other job and
coming into a new one. But it was a really
big surprise, and so thinking, how am I going to
walk through this pregnancy because the odds are I'm going
to lose this baby because I had already lost four.
So I you know, I just took it day by day.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
We got through the first trimester and things were looking good.
I can read ultrasounds now, I'm like, I see himniotic fluid,
and looking back at Ethan's ultrasound when he was younger,
I could see the cistic higromas. But they weren't looking
for that at the obi's office, So then you didn't
know what you're looking for back down. I didn't know then,
but I know now, So I have a backup career. See,
(11:19):
sometimes we can joke, so I am I yeah, So
just taking it day by day. And then we'd get
phone calls and somebody's the same, you know, a twenty
eight weeks gestation or whatever, and I'm like, oh, that's
how far along I am. And but at the sixteen weeks,
(11:41):
we were able to see if this baby would be healthy.
And I'm thinking this baby's healthy. Like and I'm thinking
this baby's a girl, and me being this cheer coach,
I'm like, when can I get her into cheerleading? So
and there's more to this, Okay.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
I have to ask you something in the middle of this.
I'm sorry, but I just you've you've you've lost four
children and and now you're running the organization that takes
pictures of dead children for grieving families. Yes, and you're pregnant.
(12:21):
I cannot imagine that every time there's a call, or
every time there's every time your organization sends a photographer out,
you have to be identifying with that and then internally wondering,
am I going to do this again? Am I? I mean,
you had been freaking out, A look, I'd have been
freaking out. And if I was robbed, I'd have really
(12:45):
been freaking out, because I mean, you know, I'm kind
of old school, but I kind of feel like one
of my biggest jobs in life is to defend and
make my family feel safe. My beautiful wife and my
four children. It's my job to make them safe. And
Rob can't and I can only and this situation and
(13:06):
my only I just I can't even imagine what he's
going through.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Well, and if you're here right now, he would say, like,
especially when I lost to Ethan, just because there was
a lot of complications going on just with me, that
he's never felt so helpless that he can't do anything horrific.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Yeah. Yeah, So you're pregnant and you're managing this nonprofit
that takes pictures of babies, and you yourself are not
completely convinced that you won't have to go through this again,
and you're trying to carry this child to term. Having
lost four children, you had to have been out of
your mind a little bit, had to have concerned.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Well. I mean, one thing that's helpful is we have
dispatch lines in all of our cities, so I'm not
taking all the calls or fielding them. But like, sometimes
things come up to me or after the fact, and
then I'm talking to a family later or they made
it down, so I'm calling and thanking them and I'm
hearing their story and thinking, oh, they lost their baby
at this point, and I'm at this point and I'm
not sharing with them of course that hey, I'm pregnant,
(14:09):
so you know. Just but I will say it was hard.
But I think because I've just been through stuff in life,
I just unfortunately I can function in trauma.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
You soldiered on, is what you did?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Yeah, yeah, and I know not everyone could do that,
you know. Just my faith really is a big part
of it. But unfortunately, I have a gift of being
highly functioning in dysfunctional, chaotic situations and traumatic situations. And
(14:49):
I think That's probably why I was able to do it,
because unfortunately I've been just kind of grew up with
like this trauma and that than this happening.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
So tell us about the progress.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Okay. So I am thinking, okay, I think this is
a girl and I want to get her into cheerleading.
So I look it up. I'm like, she just be
eighteen months old, you know. Or I think it was
a gymnastics. Got to get the tumbling first, right. So
we go in and we were cautiously optimistic and I said,
(15:26):
if this baby is healthy, it's a miracle. If this
baby's a boy, it's a bigger miracle. And so she
goes through, she checks everything out, and she said, your
baby's completely healthy, and I'm like, are you serious? Like
we were so excited. She said, do you want to
know the gender? And we said, yes, we want to know.
(15:47):
And on the screen it popped up. It's a boy.
And we were being told that we were having a
healthy baby boy that we were told we couldn't have. Yes. Yes,
and so but I'm only sixteen weeks into the pregnancy
and I've got to go forty and man, I went
(16:07):
in like almost every week just to be like, I
don't know if I felt a move for like three minutes,
can you check? You know, I'm just checking. So anyone
who's going through a pregnancy after a loss, like, don't
worry about how they look at you or how they
act when you go into the doctor and just say
check my baby. Please always count the kicks, like keep track.
(16:30):
But it was like it was the pregnancy was pretty
good and yeah, so I ended up in twenty twelve.
August of twenty twelve, they were gonna induce me early
because of my risk, and I told them, I said
I'm due August twentieth, and they're like, no, you're do
August twenty seventh. I'm like, I know, I'm due August twentieth,
(16:53):
Like I know the math. I kept telling them I'm
do August twentieth. They said, well, we're going to induce
August twenty first. I'm like, but you need to do
it a week early. And I do August twentieth. They're like, no,
you're not. I'm like, I know when I got pregnant.
I know I'm doing the twentieth. They want to listen
to me, so probably like two am on August twentieth,
my water broke, and so I went. Of course, I
(17:16):
went to the hospital and everything was just working. Like
with David, I had to have they had to try
twelve times to get my epidural twelve. I have the
record at San Jo's Hospital in Denver, by the way,
I think, and with Ethan it was multiple times. And
I'm like, I don't know if I'm doing this all
natural because I don't want to like give me the drugs.
(17:37):
But I also I'm like, don't want a needle going
in my back that many times. That's scary too, So
I told yeah, I told the anest anestegiologists, a woman
by the way, I was like, you have one try,
and she did it because there's something weird in my back.
I don't have an injury or anything, but that was
(17:59):
what the issue she was and she got on the
first time. I like, can I buy you gift? Carter
something like what can I do for you? So I am,
you know, we're laboring, but then I'm not really dilating.
Uh my baby went maconium. Like all these things are happening.
The heart rate's going up and down and it's like
five PM at that point. So it's been like fourteen
(18:21):
fifteen hours since my water broke. And of course I know,
you know, I know everything that can go wrong. I
know every story of how a baby died, like, I
know all the stuff.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
That's what you do for a living now.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Yeah, And so I asked the doctor, I'm like, do
I need to get a C section? And she said
if you She said, if something doesn't change in the
next hour or two, we probably will, but if you
want to make that decision to do it, we'll just
go ahead and do it. And I just didn't want
to make the wrong decision, like that was my biggest
fear that I'd make this decision. So she left, and
(18:55):
she was only gone for a minute. My husband and
I started talking about it. They ran in, they said,
your baby made the decision and because of the heart rate,
they rushed me in. And thankfully I had that epideur
role because then I was like ready and prepped for
a sea section and we have it on video. And
this just actually popped up as a Facebook memory of
(19:15):
I told my husband, I'm like, you get video no
matter what happens, like you just let it roll. Let
the video roll, and with you know, a sea section,
it takes a little bit for the baby to cry,
but our son RJ let out his first cry and
it was the most amazing sound you could ever hear,
(19:36):
because I yeah, just and hearing my husband and me
and our responses just on video, just it was beautiful.
So we now have a healthy ten year old boy,
and he's just he is so insightful. He always knew
(20:00):
his big brothers. We brought him home from the hospital
with the onesie that said the little brother, and you know,
took him to the cemetery with you know, David and
Ethan they're buried next to each other, and we you know,
he's just always known his big brothers and he knows
David and Ethan like I have a video of him
(20:21):
when he was two and he's he's like David, Ethan
brothers and just saying that. But when he was about
five or six, this kid, he's like, Mommy, do you
have did you ever have any other babies in your
tummy besides David and Ethan and me? And I'm not
gonna lie to him. I mean, I share my story,
(20:43):
but you know he wouldn't have heard my whole story.
And I said, actually I did. They were very, very
tiny and he's like, what's their names? And I said, well,
Daddy and I, we just had nicknames for them. One
was called SIB for sibling, a little sibling, and then
the other one was for baby. And so that's SIB
and Bebee. And if you ask r J how many
(21:04):
siblings he has, he'll say he has four big brothers
in heaven, David, Ethan, Sib, and Bebe. And he's ten now,
and I'm glad that he knows his big brothers. During
the pandemic, I think he was seven at that time,
he became really apparent that his brothers weren't here, because
(21:26):
he went probably two or three months without seeing a
kid at all, and he would cry like, I wish
I had my brother's here because he'd be on like
FaceTime with friends and stuff, yeah, and they'd be with
their siblings. And I think it was that time he
really he really understood like how I should have brothers.
(21:50):
And even to this day there's times where he'll say stuff,
but he's been given just such a gift of just
gentleness but fierceness. And even when I remember driving him
to kindergarten one day and he said, Mommy, will you
tell me more about your dad. Like he's like, tell
me about Papa. That's what the grandkids call my dad.
(22:11):
And of course my son never knew him, and I
told him about my dad and he's like, I'm sorry
that your dad died when you were so young. Like
the insight and the wisdom and the compassion he had
so young and he still does.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
We'll be right back when you're talking to other parents
who now I Lay Me Down to Sleep has taken
pictures for Are your feelings and stories similar? I mean,
(22:50):
is it almost a universal thing that that the work
that now a Lamy does Down to Sleep does, and
the the photographers that volunteer is an almost universal that
their life is enriched by having those photos.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Oh, one hundred percent. Yeah, I mean over and over
and over.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
And do the siblings of those parents also identify with that?
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yes? Absolutely. Now being with the organization almost twelve years
and this organization is eighteen years old now, I just
interviewed Erica and Tom. Their baby Matthew, was the first
baby to receive photographs from now I Leaan Down to
Sleep as an organization, and Cheryl, the founder, she had
lost her baby Maddox just a few months prior three
(23:43):
months prior and started this organization. Like in her grief,
so Erica and Tom have kids that came after Matthew,
and we talked about that. But I over and over
and over, the siblings, the parents, grandparents, they're just so grateful.
If anything I get back from parents are if they
(24:05):
ended up not or declining our services, they tell us
tell the nurses to be persistent, like to basically force
parents to and they can't do that, honestly. But I
do think the medical Affiliate program is an amazing way
that we can still get the photographs and we tell
the families you never have to look at them, but
(24:26):
they'll always be there. We sadly get some families that yeah,
they'd come back and they wish they would have gotten
those photographs, or they've reached out to hospitals to see
like did you take any pictures of my baby?
Speaker 1 (24:40):
So you can take photographs. You don't have to look
at them if you feel like it's not something you
want to do, but three years later, if you do,
they're there. You're in forty countries.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Well, we have been present in forty countries. We've paired
that back because we weren't really able to serve some
of them very well, like we'll give them information, but
language and cultural barriers really hinder our ability to do
a good job there. So we give them the information
if they want to do that. But we're basically in
a lot of the European countries, in Australia and South
(25:12):
Africa and New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
It's phenomenal. It's a phenomenal story that you are the
benefishary and it means so much to you of an
organization that you end up being the executive director of
and while you're the executive director of it, you finally
get delivered to you a healthy baby. It's a beautiful story.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
They're called rainbow babies.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Rainbows. That's what our j is is a rainbow baby,
because that's just.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
The promise, the promise for sure.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
I get it. So I share my own email address
and you know, one of one of the one of
the goals, obviously, one of the goals of the podcast
is to tell thought provoking stories, redemptive stories, and of
course explain that the amazing work you've done in your
(26:10):
amazing story, just a normal kid from Colorado who dealt
with a whole lot of stuff. But look where you
are now and how much this organization now I'll let
Me down to Sleep has meant your life. And we
hope that there's a photographer out there listening, or two
or three photographers listening, or maybe even a mother and
(26:31):
a father right now dealing with some of the things
you and Rob dealt with. And so we want to
we share who we are. So if somebody wants to
get in touch with you about either volunteering for now
on leating me down to sleep, or need your services,
how do they get in touch with you?
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Go to now I Lay Me Down to Sleep dot
org and then if you need services, just click and
find a photographer. We really recommend that the nurse call us,
but if you know ahead of time like I did,
then call ahead of time and then we can arrange
for a photographer to be there if there's an induction
day or a c section scheduled. So if you're needing
(27:12):
a photographer, just click Find a photographer, And if you're
interested in volunteering, just click on volunteer and that has
all the information we need photographers. We also need digital
retouch artists. We also need other volunteers to help spread
the word and do other work for us. We dispatchers too,
so we have people that are not photographers that dispatch
(27:32):
the calls and help arrange to get photographers to the hospital.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Got it. I'm going to tell you something, Jana. Amazing
story about nominally leating me down to sleep. Also amazing
story about your own personal perseverance through an enormous amount
of tragedy. And I sit here and I'll look at
this mom who is running this organization, who just or
(27:58):
needed her vows to or football coach husband Rob and
has RJ.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Is RJ playing football?
Speaker 2 (28:05):
By the way, Well there's more to that story. So
we put him in everything football, baseball, basketball, and he
did pretty well at several of those sports. Well not
even two years ago. He's like, Mommy, will you teach
me a backhand spring?
Speaker 3 (28:20):
I was like, sure, he got his mom's jeans and.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
He like he like I taught him a cartwell before that.
And then we're on the trampoline. I'm like, you can
move us to the grass. Let's sit on the grass.
And then my husband said, should we put him in
All Stars here? That was my husband football coach. Yeah,
And I'm like, you know, I imagine my son being
a football player, but I mean sure. So we brought
(28:46):
him in and we thought maybe he could do like
a just like a prep team or something. And the
coach there was like, we'd like to put him on
an elite team. Okay, this is July of twenty twenty one.
So he he does an elite team. It's you know,
in Denver, and he loves it and he's like and
then I'm like, I'm old school and like boys are bases,
(29:08):
Like make him base, he's not a flyer. Well, then
he pulled one of his crazy flexibility tricks. It's called
a scorpion for those of you who know cheer and
the coach looked up at the window at me and
I just put my arms up and he's like, you're
going up. And R Jay was the boy flyer on
the team. Then they moved him up to level two
this last year and he is like he now has
(29:30):
pretty much level five tumbling skills. So that's like he
has a full Like I don't know how about you all.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Rod Springs is not too far from you. That's where
the Olympics are, where the Olympic Committee is.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Well, cheerleading is going to be Olympic sport. It's been
voted in right, so he so then his team didn't
qualify for Summit, which is like the big thing at
the end of the season in Florida. So they asked
him to move up to the Level four team to
fly and he did amazing. Just got back from Florida
(30:01):
a few weeks ago, and now he's next year. He's
old enough to try out for the youth team USA
and ask the coaches. You can ask my husband, like,
I did not push this. This is him. He's like
I'm going to the Olympics, and he's teaching himself, like
he's flipping on his own. He's he has a fole now,
which is that you're flipping and twisting at the same time,
(30:23):
and it's like all him and I keep having to
tell him, stop our j it's time to go to
bet like he trains and trains here we have a
tumble track. So it's probably my fault because I was
looking up when can I get my kid into cheerleading?
But I was thinking I was having a girl. But
I'm just so excited as a mom and a coach
that he's not just like, oh, I like cheer you know,
(30:44):
because I always said if I have a girl, she'd
either be better be very good at cheer or just
don't like it because I don't know if I want to.
And he's good, so he's gonna be all the way.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
As any parent listening to this, and you and I
as parents and all other parents know, these kids do
not come out with an owner's manual, and they do,
and you can, and I believe that the old nature
versus nurture thing. We can guide them and teach them
and love them and channel their energies. But if they're
(31:18):
going to be a football player, they're going to be
a football player. If they're going to be a cheerleader,
they're going to be a cheerleader. And it's our job
just to to try to assure that along as best
we can. So I listen, I had, I had all
kinds of expectations that all four of my kids are
going to be X and none of them are that.
(31:40):
And they are the most delicious, rewarding thing in my life,
and my expectations be damned. I'll take them just like
they are.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Well, I always thought it would be cool to raise
an Olympia, and I'm like, oh my gosh, this could
be realistic.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
I think the cheerleading gets voted in as an Olympics sport.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
And then it was argile.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
I can tell them I wanted that for him. He's
just disciplined and it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
But what's the most amazing thing is that you and
Rob were blessed after all the years of trying, and
after a father and a sister and four children, that
at your point in life you're running an organization taking
care of people who have dealt with trauma, just like
you dealt with and raising your son and Gina. You
are just a normal person who had an extraordinary life
(32:30):
and are doing extraordinary work with Now let me down
to sleep, and it has been my distinct honor to
meet you.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Thank you, it's so nice to meet you.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Thank you for being here, and thank you for joining
us this week. If Gina or any other guests has
inspired you in general, or better yet, to take action
by becoming a volunteer photographer, telling friends who are photographers out,
(33:00):
now I lay me down to sleep, introducing your hospital
to them, or donating to them, or something else entirely, Guys,
I really want to hear about it. You can write
me anytime at Bill at normalfolks dot us, and I
promise you I'll respond. If you enjoyed this episode, please
share it with friends and on social subscribe to the podcast,
(33:23):
rate review it, become a premium member at normalfolks dot us.
All these things that you can do that can help
us grow an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney.
I'll see you next week.
Hey, everybody, it's Bill Courtney with an army of normal folks.
And we will continue with part two of our conversation
with Gina Harris right after these brief messages from our
generous sponsors. Now we continue with Gina on the news
(00:31):
she received only four months after the loss of her
son David.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
So we have prig that right away, and.
Speaker 1 (00:42):
Are you excited or scared a little of both?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
But you know, I've read story after story and typically
people don't have multiple losses like this. So we and
they couldn't find anything genetic or chromosomally, so it was
just kind of, for lack of better words, of fluke
that it happened. And so things were going fairly well,
but then they said the earliest you can come in
(01:06):
is sixteen weeks into the pregnancy. So we went in
and the paranetologist is looking at everything and he got
really quiet, and my husband and I just looked at
each other and we knew. So he said, go ahead
and go into my office, and I mean, he just
he said nothing, and he said, your baby has I
(01:31):
don't know if he knew everything exactly at that time,
but we ended up finding out that our baby had
cystic hiicromas and high drops. And cystic hiicromas are cysts
around the neck and then high drops a severe swelling
and fluid build up all around the baby's organs. They
weren't able to tell the gender of the baby at
that point, and they knew like that we wanted to
(01:53):
carry our baby as long as possible. They were surprised
that he was even alive still with his condition, and
then twenty four weeks into the pregnancy, they just had
me come in every week because I wasn't going to
be able to fill him move and they said his
heart stopped. So they said, well, you know, you can
(02:17):
go home for a few days or you can induce.
So I'm like, what am I going to do at home?
So we went to the hospital and they induced labor
at that same time. So this is now June, after
the October we lost David. While we were at the hospital,
we got a call from the company that was doing
(02:37):
the headstone for our son David, and we just were like,
let's hold off. There was a plot at the cemetery
right next to David, there's a baby section, and we
buried them in the cemetery where my dad and my
sister are buried, and all of my mom's side of
the family, like the six generations back.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
I'm doing the math on this year. If you got
pregnant four months after and then this happened at twenty
four weeks, we're not even a year removed from the
loss of your first job.
Speaker 2 (03:11):
No, yeah, So, but I knew that plot was open
next to David, and I didn't want to give up hope.
But I also knew that if that plot got taken,
I'd be really devastated that our second baby. Wouldn't it
be by his big brother. And so I'm in the
hospital and so I called the cemetery. Weeks before the
(03:36):
baby's heart stopped and I called the cemetery. I'm like,
can you just hold it for me? And I remember
we went out there on Father's Day, right before our
second baby was born, and I'm like, I hope we're
not back here for two But the heart stopped and
we delivered our baby and we named him Ethan. His
(03:58):
condition was really, really sick beer. I had a camera
in my bag, and I thought about just taking pictures
of his hands and feet, or maybe of him wrapped
in a blanket of us just holding them. But I
didn't do that, and we didn't want to bring a
photographer out because his condition just was really tough. Yeah yeah,
(04:22):
And so because regret in my life, I didn't get
photographs of Ethan and in the years following, and this
is just to say what these photographs do. Oftentimes we
felt like people would forget Ethan because I didn't have
the photographs. That David would get mentioned, but not Ethan.
(04:42):
And that's the power of the photographs. I know what
it's like to have the photographs and to start that
journey with them, and I know what it's like to
not have them. And the photographs mean everything. But Ethan
was the inspiration behind our medical Affiliate program and now
they made down to sleep because if there are forty
(05:05):
thousand babies we could be photographing every year and we're
only doing ten percent of them. We wanted to find
ways we could do that, and there are situations it's
not can do so for a photographer to come out,
or maybe a family might feel uncomfortable. And so we
have a program that trains nurses. They get continuing education units,
(05:27):
we teach them how to photograph the babies. Most nurses
are already doing that. They would send us photographs, we'd
retouch them, but it wasn't a formal program, so we
formalized it. They get the continuing education units the with
parent permission, the nurses upload the images onto our online
our secure online gallery, and our digital retouch artists retouch
(05:49):
those images so babies like Ethan can be photographed and
families can receive something. So we also have that program
available for the nurses. Ideally, the photographer is going to
come in and obviously do the great job as a photographer,
but when they're not available, then we have that for
(06:10):
the nurses. And the thing that now I lay me
down to sleep does is the digital retouching. We deliver
the images in black and white, and we never changed
the appearance of a baby. But there's different things that
happen with a baby when they pass away, like bruising
and skin tears, so we do retouch those. But you
(06:32):
know one baby I'm thinking of that had six toes, well,
we don't edit out one of the toes. That's something
that made that particular baby nique.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
I've seen a picture and to me, it looked like
a sleeping baby in a blanket. It was actually a beautiful, warm,
loving picture. And gosh, this sounds fall to say, but
I didn't feel like I was looking at a dead child.
I just look like I was looking at somebody's baby.
(07:03):
And once I saw that picture and I read what
you've had to say, I started to get it, you
know what I mean, even as someone who had been
through it. So you and Rob have got to be
having some serious discussions about having a family at this point.
(07:23):
I mean, sure we were too traumatic situations. Are you
thinking no more children?
Speaker 2 (07:31):
Well, you know, at that point, we were grieving the
loss of our babies, but also the fact that we
may never have children.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
And grieving that as well.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yes, And so we weren't sure what to do because
the doctors couldn't find any connection and the only thing
we were told was maybe you can't have a healthy
boy because maybe one of my ex chromosomes was passing
on to the boy. But that was just still a theory.
And so my husband and I did try two more times,
(08:04):
and those pregnancies ended a miscarriage, and at that point
we didn't know what we were going to do. And
it was twenty eleven and I found out about now
I lead me down to sleep. They were looking for
a CEO. I wasn't looking for a job. I just
came across it just being a nonprofit, and so I
reached out to Cheryl, one of the founders, and.
Speaker 1 (08:25):
Who knew the strength of it more than you.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
Yes, yeah, And so Cheryl said, we just hired the position,
but send your resume anyway. And because of where I
had worked before, we had a lot of government grants,
so I didn't have to make a resume because those
always had to go in with the grants we applied for,
And so I just sent it on with a letter.
And then a week later they called me and they
said that the person they offered it to decline, and
(08:52):
so they brought me in and the interview was more like,
how can we get you to work here? So it
was it was a really big move for me because
I didn't know what we were going to be doing
about children. I had no idea, but we were just
kind of putting a pause on it. And by that point,
I think, I'm what thirty seven, thirty eight years old.
My clock's ticken, and we just we weren't sure. We
(09:15):
kind of loosely started looking at adoption, but we weren't sure,
and then I literally was out. Now I lead me
down to sleep, for it would have been two months
and I found out I was pregnant. We were not
planning it, like.
Speaker 1 (09:31):
It's not I mean, listen, this is one of the deepest,
most heart tagging podcasts I've ever done. And typically I
do a lot of off off the cuff jokes in
the middle of stuff, but I just I can't must
(09:53):
them right now. But I do have to say I
can't help but noticed the irony that after everything you've
been through and you're thirty seven years old, and you
take a job as the director of this unbelievable volunteer
(10:13):
nonprofit organization who has meant so much to you and
your husband and your family, and then you get pregnant again.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (10:21):
And I don't know how it happened either. I didn't
even see him. I was leaving my other job and
coming into a new one. But it was a really
big surprise, and so thinking, how am I going to
walk through this pregnancy because the odds are I'm going
to lose this baby because I had already lost four.
So I you know, I just took it day by day.
Speaker 1 (10:47):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
We got through the first trimester and things were looking good.
I can read ultrasounds now, I'm like, I see himniotic fluid,
and looking back at Ethan's ultrasound when he was younger,
I could see the cistic higromas. But they weren't looking
for that at the obi's office, So then you didn't
know what you're looking for back down. I didn't know then,
but I know now, So I have a backup career. See,
(11:19):
sometimes we can joke, so I am I yeah, So
just taking it day by day. And then we'd get
phone calls and somebody's the same, you know, a twenty
eight weeks gestation or whatever, and I'm like, oh, that's
how far along I am. And but at the sixteen weeks,
(11:41):
we were able to see if this baby would be healthy.
And I'm thinking this baby's healthy. Like and I'm thinking
this baby's a girl, and me being this cheer coach,
I'm like, when can I get her into cheerleading? So
and there's more to this, Okay.
Speaker 1 (11:56):
I have to ask you something in the middle of this.
I'm sorry, but I just you've you've you've lost four
children and and now you're running the organization that takes
pictures of dead children for grieving families. Yes, and you're pregnant.
(12:21):
I cannot imagine that every time there's a call, or
every time there's every time your organization sends a photographer out,
you have to be identifying with that and then internally wondering,
am I going to do this again? Am I? I mean,
you had been freaking out, A look, I'd have been
freaking out. And if I was robbed, I'd have really
(12:45):
been freaking out, because I mean, you know, I'm kind
of old school, but I kind of feel like one
of my biggest jobs in life is to defend and
make my family feel safe. My beautiful wife and my
four children. It's my job to make them safe. And
Rob can't and I can only and this situation and
(13:06):
my only I just I can't even imagine what he's
going through.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
Well, and if you're here right now, he would say, like,
especially when I lost to Ethan, just because there was
a lot of complications going on just with me, that
he's never felt so helpless that he can't do anything horrific.
Speaker 3 (13:25):
Yeah. Yeah, So you're pregnant and you're managing this nonprofit
that takes pictures of babies, and you yourself are not
completely convinced that you won't have to go through this again,
and you're trying to carry this child to term. Having
lost four children, you had to have been out of
your mind a little bit, had to have concerned.
Speaker 2 (13:47):
Well. I mean, one thing that's helpful is we have
dispatch lines in all of our cities, so I'm not
taking all the calls or fielding them. But like, sometimes
things come up to me or after the fact, and
then I'm talking to a family later or they made
it down, so I'm calling and thanking them and I'm
hearing their story and thinking, oh, they lost their baby
at this point, and I'm at this point and I'm
not sharing with them of course that hey, I'm pregnant,
(14:09):
so you know. Just but I will say it was hard.
But I think because I've just been through stuff in life,
I just unfortunately I can function in trauma.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
You soldiered on, is what you did?
Speaker 2 (14:29):
Yeah, yeah, and I know not everyone could do that,
you know. Just my faith really is a big part
of it. But unfortunately, I have a gift of being
highly functioning in dysfunctional, chaotic situations and traumatic situations. And
(14:49):
I think That's probably why I was able to do it,
because unfortunately I've been just kind of grew up with
like this trauma and that than this happening.
Speaker 1 (15:02):
So tell us about the progress.
Speaker 2 (15:04):
Okay. So I am thinking, okay, I think this is
a girl and I want to get her into cheerleading.
So I look it up. I'm like, she just be
eighteen months old, you know. Or I think it was
a gymnastics. Got to get the tumbling first, right. So
we go in and we were cautiously optimistic and I said,
(15:26):
if this baby is healthy, it's a miracle. If this
baby's a boy, it's a bigger miracle. And so she
goes through, she checks everything out, and she said, your
baby's completely healthy, and I'm like, are you serious? Like
we were so excited. She said, do you want to
know the gender? And we said, yes, we want to know.
(15:47):
And on the screen it popped up. It's a boy.
And we were being told that we were having a
healthy baby boy that we were told we couldn't have. Yes. Yes,
and so but I'm only sixteen weeks into the pregnancy
and I've got to go forty and man, I went
(16:07):
in like almost every week just to be like, I
don't know if I felt a move for like three minutes,
can you check? You know, I'm just checking. So anyone
who's going through a pregnancy after a loss, like, don't
worry about how they look at you or how they
act when you go into the doctor and just say
check my baby. Please always count the kicks, like keep track.
(16:30):
But it was like it was the pregnancy was pretty
good and yeah, so I ended up in twenty twelve.
August of twenty twelve, they were gonna induce me early
because of my risk, and I told them, I said
I'm due August twentieth, and they're like, no, you're do
August twenty seventh. I'm like, I know, I'm due August twentieth,
(16:53):
Like I know the math. I kept telling them I'm
do August twentieth. They said, well, we're going to induce
August twenty first. I'm like, but you need to do
it a week early. And I do August twentieth. They're like, no,
you're not. I'm like, I know when I got pregnant.
I know I'm doing the twentieth. They want to listen
to me, so probably like two am on August twentieth,
my water broke, and so I went. Of course, I
(17:16):
went to the hospital and everything was just working. Like
with David, I had to have they had to try
twelve times to get my epidural twelve. I have the
record at San Jo's Hospital in Denver, by the way,
I think, and with Ethan it was multiple times. And
I'm like, I don't know if I'm doing this all
natural because I don't want to like give me the drugs.
(17:37):
But I also I'm like, don't want a needle going
in my back that many times. That's scary too, So
I told yeah, I told the anest anestegiologists, a woman
by the way, I was like, you have one try,
and she did it because there's something weird in my back.
I don't have an injury or anything, but that was
(17:59):
what the issue she was and she got on the
first time. I like, can I buy you gift? Carter
something like what can I do for you? So I am,
you know, we're laboring, but then I'm not really dilating.
Uh my baby went maconium. Like all these things are happening.
The heart rate's going up and down and it's like
five PM at that point. So it's been like fourteen
(18:21):
fifteen hours since my water broke. And of course I know,
you know, I know everything that can go wrong. I
know every story of how a baby died, like, I
know all the stuff.
Speaker 1 (18:30):
That's what you do for a living now.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Yeah, And so I asked the doctor, I'm like, do
I need to get a C section? And she said
if you She said, if something doesn't change in the
next hour or two, we probably will, but if you
want to make that decision to do it, we'll just
go ahead and do it. And I just didn't want
to make the wrong decision, like that was my biggest
fear that I'd make this decision. So she left, and
(18:55):
she was only gone for a minute. My husband and
I started talking about it. They ran in, they said,
your baby made the decision and because of the heart rate,
they rushed me in. And thankfully I had that epideur
role because then I was like ready and prepped for
a sea section and we have it on video. And
this just actually popped up as a Facebook memory of
(19:15):
I told my husband, I'm like, you get video no
matter what happens, like you just let it roll. Let
the video roll, and with you know, a sea section,
it takes a little bit for the baby to cry,
but our son RJ let out his first cry and
it was the most amazing sound you could ever hear,
(19:36):
because I yeah, just and hearing my husband and me
and our responses just on video, just it was beautiful.
So we now have a healthy ten year old boy,
and he's just he is so insightful. He always knew
(20:00):
his big brothers. We brought him home from the hospital
with the onesie that said the little brother, and you know,
took him to the cemetery with you know, David and
Ethan they're buried next to each other, and we you know,
he's just always known his big brothers and he knows
David and Ethan like I have a video of him
(20:21):
when he was two and he's he's like David, Ethan
brothers and just saying that. But when he was about
five or six, this kid, he's like, Mommy, do you
have did you ever have any other babies in your
tummy besides David and Ethan and me? And I'm not
gonna lie to him. I mean, I share my story,
(20:43):
but you know he wouldn't have heard my whole story.
And I said, actually I did. They were very, very
tiny and he's like, what's their names? And I said, well,
Daddy and I, we just had nicknames for them. One
was called SIB for sibling, a little sibling, and then
the other one was for baby. And so that's SIB
and Bebee. And if you ask r J how many
(21:04):
siblings he has, he'll say he has four big brothers
in heaven, David, Ethan, Sib, and Bebe. And he's ten now,
and I'm glad that he knows his big brothers. During
the pandemic, I think he was seven at that time,
he became really apparent that his brothers weren't here, because
(21:26):
he went probably two or three months without seeing a
kid at all, and he would cry like, I wish
I had my brother's here because he'd be on like
FaceTime with friends and stuff, yeah, and they'd be with
their siblings. And I think it was that time he
really he really understood like how I should have brothers.
(21:50):
And even to this day there's times where he'll say stuff,
but he's been given just such a gift of just
gentleness but fierceness. And even when I remember driving him
to kindergarten one day and he said, Mommy, will you
tell me more about your dad. Like he's like, tell
me about Papa. That's what the grandkids call my dad.
(22:11):
And of course my son never knew him, and I
told him about my dad and he's like, I'm sorry
that your dad died when you were so young. Like
the insight and the wisdom and the compassion he had
so young and he still does.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
We'll be right back when you're talking to other parents
who now I Lay Me Down to Sleep has taken
pictures for Are your feelings and stories similar? I mean,
(22:50):
is it almost a universal thing that that the work
that now a Lamy does Down to Sleep does, and
the the photographers that volunteer is an almost universal that
their life is enriched by having those photos.
Speaker 2 (23:11):
Oh, one hundred percent. Yeah, I mean over and over
and over.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
And do the siblings of those parents also identify with that?
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yes? Absolutely. Now being with the organization almost twelve years
and this organization is eighteen years old now, I just
interviewed Erica and Tom. Their baby Matthew, was the first
baby to receive photographs from now I Leaan Down to
Sleep as an organization, and Cheryl, the founder, she had
lost her baby Maddox just a few months prior three
(23:43):
months prior and started this organization. Like in her grief,
so Erica and Tom have kids that came after Matthew,
and we talked about that. But I over and over
and over, the siblings, the parents, grandparents, they're just so grateful.
If anything I get back from parents are if they
(24:05):
ended up not or declining our services, they tell us
tell the nurses to be persistent, like to basically force
parents to and they can't do that, honestly. But I
do think the medical Affiliate program is an amazing way
that we can still get the photographs and we tell
the families you never have to look at them, but
(24:26):
they'll always be there. We sadly get some families that yeah,
they'd come back and they wish they would have gotten
those photographs, or they've reached out to hospitals to see
like did you take any pictures of my baby?
Speaker 1 (24:40):
So you can take photographs. You don't have to look
at them if you feel like it's not something you
want to do, but three years later, if you do,
they're there. You're in forty countries.
Speaker 2 (24:51):
Well, we have been present in forty countries. We've paired
that back because we weren't really able to serve some
of them very well, like we'll give them information, but
language and cultural barriers really hinder our ability to do
a good job there. So we give them the information
if they want to do that. But we're basically in
a lot of the European countries, in Australia and South
(25:12):
Africa and New Zealand.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
It's phenomenal. It's a phenomenal story that you are the
benefishary and it means so much to you of an
organization that you end up being the executive director of
and while you're the executive director of it, you finally
get delivered to you a healthy baby. It's a beautiful story.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
They're called rainbow babies.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
Rainbows. That's what our j is is a rainbow baby,
because that's just.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
The promise, the promise for sure.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
I get it. So I share my own email address
and you know, one of one of the one of
the goals, obviously, one of the goals of the podcast
is to tell thought provoking stories, redemptive stories, and of
course explain that the amazing work you've done in your
(26:10):
amazing story, just a normal kid from Colorado who dealt
with a whole lot of stuff. But look where you
are now and how much this organization now I'll let
Me down to Sleep has meant your life. And we
hope that there's a photographer out there listening, or two
or three photographers listening, or maybe even a mother and
(26:31):
a father right now dealing with some of the things
you and Rob dealt with. And so we want to
we share who we are. So if somebody wants to
get in touch with you about either volunteering for now
on leating me down to sleep, or need your services,
how do they get in touch with you?
Speaker 2 (26:51):
Go to now I Lay Me Down to Sleep dot
org and then if you need services, just click and
find a photographer. We really recommend that the nurse call us,
but if you know ahead of time like I did,
then call ahead of time and then we can arrange
for a photographer to be there if there's an induction
day or a c section scheduled. So if you're needing
(27:12):
a photographer, just click Find a photographer, And if you're
interested in volunteering, just click on volunteer and that has
all the information we need photographers. We also need digital
retouch artists. We also need other volunteers to help spread
the word and do other work for us. We dispatchers too,
so we have people that are not photographers that dispatch
(27:32):
the calls and help arrange to get photographers to the hospital.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
Got it. I'm going to tell you something, Jana. Amazing
story about nominally leating me down to sleep. Also amazing
story about your own personal perseverance through an enormous amount
of tragedy. And I sit here and I'll look at
this mom who is running this organization, who just or
(27:58):
needed her vows to or football coach husband Rob and
has RJ.
Speaker 3 (28:04):
Is RJ playing football?
Speaker 2 (28:05):
By the way, Well there's more to that story. So
we put him in everything football, baseball, basketball, and he
did pretty well at several of those sports. Well not
even two years ago. He's like, Mommy, will you teach
me a backhand spring?
Speaker 3 (28:20):
I was like, sure, he got his mom's jeans and.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
He like he like I taught him a cartwell before that.
And then we're on the trampoline. I'm like, you can
move us to the grass. Let's sit on the grass.
And then my husband said, should we put him in
All Stars here? That was my husband football coach. Yeah,
And I'm like, you know, I imagine my son being
a football player, but I mean sure. So we brought
(28:46):
him in and we thought maybe he could do like
a just like a prep team or something. And the
coach there was like, we'd like to put him on
an elite team. Okay, this is July of twenty twenty one.
So he he does an elite team. It's you know,
in Denver, and he loves it and he's like and
then I'm like, I'm old school and like boys are bases,
(29:08):
Like make him base, he's not a flyer. Well, then
he pulled one of his crazy flexibility tricks. It's called
a scorpion for those of you who know cheer and
the coach looked up at the window at me and
I just put my arms up and he's like, you're
going up. And R Jay was the boy flyer on
the team. Then they moved him up to level two
this last year and he is like he now has
(29:30):
pretty much level five tumbling skills. So that's like he
has a full Like I don't know how about you all.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Rod Springs is not too far from you. That's where
the Olympics are, where the Olympic Committee is.
Speaker 2 (29:40):
Well, cheerleading is going to be Olympic sport. It's been
voted in right, so he so then his team didn't
qualify for Summit, which is like the big thing at
the end of the season in Florida. So they asked
him to move up to the Level four team to
fly and he did amazing. Just got back from Florida
(30:01):
a few weeks ago, and now he's next year. He's
old enough to try out for the youth team USA
and ask the coaches. You can ask my husband, like,
I did not push this. This is him. He's like
I'm going to the Olympics, and he's teaching himself, like
he's flipping on his own. He's he has a fole now,
which is that you're flipping and twisting at the same time,
(30:23):
and it's like all him and I keep having to
tell him, stop our j it's time to go to
bet like he trains and trains here we have a
tumble track. So it's probably my fault because I was
looking up when can I get my kid into cheerleading?
But I was thinking I was having a girl. But
I'm just so excited as a mom and a coach
that he's not just like, oh, I like cheer you know,
(30:44):
because I always said if I have a girl, she'd
either be better be very good at cheer or just
don't like it because I don't know if I want to.
And he's good, so he's gonna be all the way.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
As any parent listening to this, and you and I
as parents and all other parents know, these kids do
not come out with an owner's manual, and they do,
and you can, and I believe that the old nature
versus nurture thing. We can guide them and teach them
and love them and channel their energies. But if they're
(31:18):
going to be a football player, they're going to be
a football player. If they're going to be a cheerleader,
they're going to be a cheerleader. And it's our job
just to to try to assure that along as best
we can. So I listen, I had, I had all
kinds of expectations that all four of my kids are
going to be X and none of them are that.
(31:40):
And they are the most delicious, rewarding thing in my life,
and my expectations be damned. I'll take them just like
they are.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
Well, I always thought it would be cool to raise
an Olympia, and I'm like, oh my gosh, this could
be realistic.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
That's awesome.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
I think the cheerleading gets voted in as an Olympics sport.
Speaker 1 (32:00):
And then it was argile.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
I can tell them I wanted that for him. He's
just disciplined and it's amazing.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
But what's the most amazing thing is that you and
Rob were blessed after all the years of trying, and
after a father and a sister and four children, that
at your point in life you're running an organization taking
care of people who have dealt with trauma, just like
you dealt with and raising your son and Gina. You
are just a normal person who had an extraordinary life
(32:30):
and are doing extraordinary work with Now let me down
to sleep, and it has been my distinct honor to
meet you.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Thank you, it's so nice to meet you.
Speaker 1 (32:39):
Thank you for being here, and thank you for joining
us this week. If Gina or any other guests has
inspired you in general, or better yet, to take action
by becoming a volunteer photographer, telling friends who are photographers out,
(33:00):
now I lay me down to sleep, introducing your hospital
to them, or donating to them, or something else entirely, Guys,
I really want to hear about it. You can write
me anytime at Bill at normalfolks dot us, and I
promise you I'll respond. If you enjoyed this episode, please
share it with friends and on social subscribe to the podcast,
(33:23):
rate review it, become a premium member at normalfolks dot us.
All these things that you can do that can help
us grow an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney.
I'll see you next week.
Host
Bill Courtney
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.