April 15, 2025 • 52 mins
Jamie’s 2.5-year-old son died from choking on chicken. And her close friends couldn’t have kids, experienced late-term miscarriage, and breast cancer at 30 years old. They became magnets for others walking through tremendous suffering and realized that not everyone had their support network. Together, they founded Faithfully Restored, which has served 2,929 women with prayers and specialized care packages.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
One of my best friends, they found out they could
not have biological children, and so they went through the
adoption process. So we walked through that with them. They
adopt Jack. We have some friends have late term miscarriages
that we walked through before the summer before William died,
one of our best friends had just turned thirty and
was diagnosed with breast cancer. Had two young kids, same age,
(00:25):
Madeline and William. You know, it's just tragic. And so
we had had these things going on, these deep valleys
that we didn't know what to do, and so we
just kept showing up for each other. And so when
I got home from Vanderbilt that day, from the hospital
without William, I got to my back porch and there
(00:46):
was this basket, and that's what we had been doing
for our friends that were walking through different things. There
was a bunch of these notes and a bunch of
just comfort items and stuff. And I was like, Okay,
now it's my turn.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney.
I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father,
I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a football coach, an
Inner City Memphis and the last part it somehow led
to an oscar for the film about our team. It's
called Undefeated. Guys. I believe our country's problems will never
(01:23):
be solved by a bunch of fancy people in nice
suits using big words that nobody understands on saying it
in Fox, but rather by an army of normal folks.
That's just us, you and me deciding hey, I can help.
That's what Jamie heard the voice you just heard has done.
After the tragic loss of her two and a half
(01:44):
year old son, William, Jamie became a magnet for others
who had experienced loss, and so did three of her friends,
who went through their own trials as well. Together, they
realized how fortunate they were to have had each other
while they walked through their pain, and not everybody in
the world had this. So they founded Faithfully Restored, which
(02:07):
is prayed for, and sent care packages to twenty nine
hundred and four women so far and counting who have
had hardships ranging from child loss to widows answer and infraternity.
I can't wait for you to meet, Jamie. Right after
these brief messages from our general sponsors, Jamie heard from Nashville,
(02:38):
what's up.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Thanks for having me, not much. I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Thanks for driving down. Do people in Nashville get nosebleeds
when you get you know, west of Jackson, Tennessee.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
This is about my third time doing that, so yeah,
it doesn't happen very often. I had to pack a
snack to come over. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Well, welcome to Memphis. A lot of folks in Nashville.
Saint Memphis is the biggest city in Mississippi. I hope
you enjoy our fairtown.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Well, thank you everybody.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Jamie is the co founder and executive director of Faithfully
Restored in Brentwood, not really Nashville, but is Nashville for
those listening who don't know, it's Brentwood's a I guess
a suburb of Nashville's what we'd call. It's beautiful. Actually,
there's a lot here to unpack, and we're certainly going
to get to Faithfully Restored in what it is today
(03:30):
and all the amazing work you're doing a little bit
of a spoiler alert. You have a tremendous heart, Jamie,
and selflessness and you're call to service. But before we
get there, you know, we'll unpack kind of where you
started from in your thirties. But tell me about you,
just who you are, where you come from, how you raised,
(03:53):
who you married, Tell me about you a little bit.
Give give our listeners a little glimpse into who Jamie
is and where she comes from.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
All Right, I am from a small town or north
of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. So I'm a Yankee.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
You're you're a damn Yankee. You know the difference, Yeah,
yank Yankee.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Stay stay yeah, right, okay, yeah, so don't yeah, don't
hold it against me down here now. And I went
to UT in Knoxville for school, and really I went there.
My two older sisters were there. Oldest one wanted a
big school with a good football team.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
So there's a place called penn State, much closer to
where you live.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
She wanted out of state.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
She wanted yeah, out of state. Yeah, and UT was at.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Fire at that time. I mean it wouldn't be the
case now, school with.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
A good football team, I mean, yeah, she wanted out.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
You know, you're from a small town, you just kind
of want out of the small town. So, but childhood,
I grew up with two sisters in the house. They
were from my mom's previous marriage, and my parents got
I was the only one between my mom and my dad,
and my parents got divorced when I was in fifth
grade and I stayed with my dad. My mom took
my two sisters and I stayed with my dad.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
That's uncommon, it is, especially for a girl.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yeah, it really is. And looking back, my dad loved me,
and that's all I felt growing up was love and realized,
you know, later, as you go into counseling, as one
does after college and stuff, that it was a little unhealthy.
And I had a counselor tell me that my dad
(05:28):
basically put me in the position of every role in
a marriage besides sexually. So I felt it as love.
Growing up, I was visiting my mom every other weekend
and on Tuesday, so I had a relationship with her,
but pretty surface level. She let me do whatever she
wanted or whatever I wanted at her house. So I
(05:49):
loved that as a girl growing up.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
It's what sixteen year old would I know.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
It's like, there's no cre forew here, she doesn't care
what I'm doing. This is great. And so there was
a little that my mom has a big family, and
so anytime they went on vacation or anything, and my
dad it wasn't my mom's time. My dad didn't let
me go, and my dad really drilled in me that
my mom left me, which really happened. I mean, she
(06:15):
drove me to school in fifth grade and said she
was leaving and left. But my dad took that and
basically ingrained in me how my mom had abandoned me.
And so, but I grew up feeling very loved by
the people around me, had great friends, you know, I
spent a lot of times at friends' houses, and a
lot of my close friends' moms were really close to
(06:36):
me and loved on me. But I wanted, like I said,
kind of out of that small town. Whenever it came
time to graduate high school, I knew I wanted out
of that town.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Were you close to your sisters?
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I was therefore and six years older than me, and
so as close as you can be, I mean kind
of there was never any you know, anything negative, But
we weren't that close. We're a lot closer now as
we're older, but growing up and my dad honestly didn't
treat them well, and so there's a little of that
(07:06):
of my dad treated me well, favored me. I mean,
I even looked back on some old videos here recently,
and he like was like, get out of the picture
to my sisters, and it was just like kind of
cringeish to watch looking back. But I didn't know any
of that growing up. And so my sisters didn't really
(07:27):
love my dad and get along with them because he
didn't treat them well. But they went off to UT
and then by the time that I was headed to college,
they were not there anymore. So I went to UT
and loved the idea of no one knowing me of
kind of I wasn't running from anything, but it was
just kind of a fresh start to no one knows
you in college and you can just kind of start
(07:51):
it right. Yeah. Well, and I didn't say that. I
actually didn't do it. I didn't start this like I
always say, like no one was looking at me in college,
of like that is how I should follow christ or
that is that is the model Christian. Like that was
not happening. I was like on bars having people take shots,
like and I mean, gathering not great things. But you know,
(08:15):
you can't change that now. But I went to UT
and met my husband December of our sophomore year, so
pretty early into college, and so we dated all through college.
And what's his name, Daniel? Daniel, Yes, dashing redhead. You
said you were a redhead. I'm just a little love
for redheads.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
There's nothing like gingers to just warm your heart. Yeah,
all I got news, asked my wife Lisa. She'll tell
you you're not a redhead anymore. I'm precious. We talked about this.
You don't have red hair anymore. It's all white or great.
I do have red hair at the roots there. You
go pretty sure of it.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Hopefully Daniel's getting a little great too. But I like it.
It's like sprinkled in there. It's like distinguish.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Well, it is distinguished, and you get a little white
with a little red and a little silver in there
once you get older. There's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
No, I'm still Chris Kree was a redhead.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Let's remember that, the white haired Santa that everybody loves. Now.
It took me a long time to get least to
go out with me because she was just kind of
against redheaded people at first. She's like, I just don't
think red. I don't want to date of red. What
it a red did? I mean a red head?
Speaker 1 (09:23):
It's honestly, not something you know as a little girl
you think about, like I just hope my husband has
red hair.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Yeah, that's not so.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
I wanted someone that was taller than me, that weighed
more than me, and that could play the guitar. That
was kind of my three things.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
And Daniel is short, redheaded and plays me.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
No, he is taller than me, depending on if I'm
pregnant or what. What the weight so he's pretty small,
so the weight can kind of bury there. There are
times that I have weighed more than him, sadly, and
he does play the guitar.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Oh well one and a half out of three.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Yeah, so all right, so I won the jackpot. He's
so great and we met early dated all through college.
I always knew I wanted to be a teacher, and
so going to college, I knew exactly what I was
going to do in level elementary.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Got it, and.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
So I graduated and then went on a year to
get my master's in education, and he went on to
law school. So we were both still in Knoxville freshman
year or like actually the year after we graduated. I
was my master's his first year law school, but then
after that I would have gotten married if he would
have asked me. But he didn't. He wanted to fall.
(10:35):
He wanted to finish law school and kind of get
a little stable after law school, and so I moved
to Atlanta and taught for two years, and we dated
long distance, and that was really good that time away.
I mean, we never broke up or anything, but I
feel like we both had to grow up a little
bit since we met pretty young. So he got in
(10:56):
a Bible study at ut law school, and then I
was in Atlanta started going to Andy Stanley's church, and
I feel like our faith really deepened whenever we were
separated and kind of away from some temptation.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
So did the shots stop progressively less?
Speaker 1 (11:16):
I wouldn't say stopped, I would say got progressively less.
I love your after college.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
I have a question. Yes, you alluded to you know,
when you graduate and you get out and you go
to therapy and just went right past that. I kind
of chuckled when you said that, because you went past it,
because it seemed so obvious as you said it. And
I'm not going to get into your therapeutic sessions, but
(11:46):
broken families and I'm speaking from experience, so I'm not
picking your story out. But I'm just saying broken families
and dysfunctioned the household causes rama in young people that
is often carried well into their thirties, forties, and even
(12:06):
fifties before they even understand it and reconcile with it.
Is that your experience is.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Not Thank the Lord. I mean, I get so when
we were spending those two years apart. A year into that,
Daniel asked me to marry him, and so we were engaged,
and I was I joined a small group through North Point,
and I remember going there one week and I was
just so frustrated with my dad. He just I could
(12:33):
tell the closer Daniel and I got towards marriage, almost jealous. Yes,
the less he or the more he realized, the less
I needed him, then he would just kind of lash
out at me, which had always been his pattern, which
he had childhood trauma. You know, his dad ran around
(12:53):
on his mom, broken home.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Must be fair, we're all broken. Yes, yes, let's not
pick on one guy. Yeah, no, I but the reality.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Is the reality. Well, and I think, like you said,
you carry it with you. Some people deal with it
and some people don't. And my dad was unwilling to
even try to work, which is generational. I guess that, yeah, exactly.
You know, I don't fault him for that, but that's
(13:22):
just the reality of it. I begged him to go
to counseling and he wouldn't go, and so I went in.
So I was at small group and I was just
venting about my dad and stuff, and they were like,
you should go see a counselor. And I was like,
what am I going to say to a counselor And
someone said it should be a Christian counselor. I was like,
(13:42):
I wish I wouldn't have really thought of and I
was like, okay, So I looked up a Christian counselor.
There was one guy that took my insurance. It was
seventy five dollars a time, and I was like, that's
a lot of money. And I went and that counselor
saved my life. I remember the first counseling session I
went to. He said, Jamie, I was kind of telling
(14:04):
my story and he said, Jamie, I'm going to get
you to a point where whatever your dad says or
does doesn't have such a pool on you. And to
be honest, I didn't even realize it did. I was like, oh,
that's kind of weird. Like, okay, whatever, that's the goal.
It's fine. So I left that counseling session and I
was like, okay, that's fine and whatever whatever, you know.
(14:28):
But I was committed to going and it actually when
I went and talked about things, it felt really good.
It felt good to hear feedback. It felt good to
then understand all these things that had happened in my
childhood and why maybe my dad was the way he was.
And nine months later he shot himself. He had called me.
(14:49):
I was on the way home from Nashville. Daniel and
I went to Nashville to look for a house. I
was headed back to Atlanta and he called me on
the phone and he said, Jamie, I just want you
to know that I love you. And I instantly I
was like, Dad, stop, stop what you're doing. And he
said no, he said, I knew. I knew it was
kind of weird. Were you I was twenty five, it
(15:14):
was three months before my wedding.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
And can I that in and of itself is I mean,
clearly it's a broken man, But that in and of
itself is a form of abuse that you had to endure.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
I really my dad was so great and loved like
no one else. He was very broken, and I truly
believe it was on a Sunday when that happened. He
had been out watching a Steeler game, had drank. He
got pulled over for a DUI. He was on probation
(15:59):
for in a fight almost a year earlier. I remember
that night he called me that night he got in
a fight. He called me and it was late at
night and he was like, I just got in a fight.
And it was like right then, it was like role reversal,
as you know, like a child might call a parent
and say they just got arrested for a fight. It
was reversed. And here my dad is calling me saying
(16:23):
he got arrested for being in a fight, but he
was on probation and he got pulled over for a
DUI was taken to the hospital, and then a friend
came to pick him up, and I truly he's like,
I want to go home and get some clothes, and
so my dad's friend took went home to our house
and let him change and that's when he went in
(16:44):
locked himself in the bedroom. And I truly believe at
that moment he thought doing that was the best thing
he could do for everyone involved. Like I think his mind,
I don't think it was premeditated at all. Think his
mind went to I maybe in jail for her wedding.
(17:05):
I mean, he was on probation and got a DUI,
so I don't know what would have happened. The possibility
of that, I think crossed his mind, and I think
he thought if I'm not here, it would be better
for everyone. Clearly that's not truth. But when he called
to tell me that, I tried to stop him. I
(17:26):
knew he had had a couple friends killed themselves as
just growing up. I remember that, and he always said
how selfish that was. He was just like, I can't
believe they did that. That is so selfish, and it
would it was just kind of weird thinking back to
comment to your daughter about suicide. But so in that
(17:46):
moment I knew what he was doing, and so he
hung up the phone. I called my neighbor across the
street and I was like, you need to get over
to my house right now, and he ran over and
both of them got in the house, but we're outside
the door when he shot himself.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
I heard it, So that's devastating.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Oh it was. I mean I thought, you know, here
I am. I graduated with my masters, I get my
first job, I have this amazing soon to be husband.
Like things are going so well where really, like any
(18:28):
dad should be like wow, like you're doing it, like
I'm so proud of you. And he just really struggled.
I think he was an alcoholic. I would say he was.
He didn't drink every day, and even when I was
in the house growing up, he did not drink. When
he from fifth grade till I was a senior in college,
(18:50):
I never saw him drink. And but then after I
went to college, I would come home and at.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
He's probably lonely and self medicating.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Oh, for for sure, struggled with depression. But it was
like when he started drinking, he could not stop drinking.
He wasn't one that you could just go and have
a few beers with. So there'd been times that I
came back from college and he but he's also that
good guy at the bar, like buying everyone drinks, like
no one no one really knew that side of him,
(19:21):
even that the way he treated me or you know,
he would go off on me and make me feel
an inch tall. You know, no one really saw that
growing up, which I also didn't realize how hard that
was for people to have this view of him and
our family that was a little different from what was
actually happening.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Yeah, but that's everybody.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
You know. Yeah, it is so. But I was thankful
to have Daniel that because when that happened, I had
been praying and I really had grown in my faith,
like this is Lord, whatever it is you have for me,
like I'm here for it. And that happened and I
was like, oh hell no, like this is this is awful.
(20:06):
And I was so mad at God and just angry.
And here I am having to plan my wedding. I'm
like whatever, these flowers like, I don't care, Like it's
just I had all this stuff to deal with that
my dad left. You know, we had this house, he
had this property, this place is like I'm the only one.
(20:27):
And I was so mad. I'm like, you left me
with all of this crap to take care of and
here I am supposed to be starting my first year
of marriage and get a job. And it was just
a cluster. And luckily Daniel was so amazing and patient,
and he really doesn't look back on that time that
first year, Like I have some journal entries and just stuff,
(20:50):
and the way I remember it, the way he remembers
it is very different. So I think I was internally
really struggling, But I I had things to be happy
about too, Like I just married this amazing guy and
we moved to Nashville together and everything. But it was rough.
Those first couple of years after my dad died were rough.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
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Speaker 1 (21:47):
Luckily, I had great friends. We started going to a
church in Nashville that really preached the truth. That was
life changing for me to get involved in a church.
And I probably if I wouldn't have gotten married and
had Daniel, well, I probably would have walked away a
little bit from the church. I just was so mad
at God. I thought, how could he do this to me?
(22:08):
Then you realize it's not about you, but I was
very that was my thought. After all that happened, I thought,
what kind of God does this to me? Yeah, So
those first couple of years I really struggled. But that
was the first time in my life that had really
had something that rocked my faith. But I look back now,
(22:31):
and everything in my past led up to a trial
that I was going to face later, and the Lord
was preparing me. And I'm so grateful I didn't have
I couldn't look back in the mirror and thank God
for all that had happened until I had really deepened
my faith and was faced with another trial. And at
(22:54):
that point when I had been praying for God's will,
it was like I meant it. My roots are deep, Lord,
like I'm living for you. I have such an eternal
perspective now that I'm so grateful for a lot get there.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
There's a saying that a lot of people use that is,
God won't ever give you more than you can handle,
And I think that's a croc I think that needs
to be amended to. God won't give you anything that
you can't handle in faith, But if you're not in faith,
there's going to be a lot people can't handle, and
(23:32):
you know, the truth is, we're going to get to
faith for the restored. But the truth is, I don't
think faithfully restored happens had you not dealt with lots
of things that need faith to restore you as thinking
about how you grew up, thinking about the honestly, the
(23:53):
reverse identity in you and your father living at home
as a child and then you being on the phone
with him minutes before he commits suicide, only months before
year to get married. When you've done all the right things,
You've graduated, you've got your masters, you're getting engaged, you're
getting your life straight, you're about to go to Nashville
(24:16):
and start your dream job, and boom, it's just another
reminder about how broken our world is. But dealing with
all of those things does set you up for sure,
which is why I wanted to share a little bit
about how you came up.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
So and I will say when after that happened, I
flew to Knoxville my mom. When I was a senior
in college, she moved down from my hometown to Knoxville.
And after my dad died, I flew to Knoxville for
a little bit, and my counselor was. He had also
(24:52):
said in some of those sessions, like I really think
you need to repair the relationship with your mom, and
I'm like, I'm really here to talk about my dad.
Everything with my mom is fine. We've never argued.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Actually, you're really there to talk about you. But you
probably didn't understand that.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Ye oh no, no I didn't. Yeah I didn't at all.
But I went to my mom and I said, you know,
I never really ask about the divorce. I never really
you know, asked questions. And she got tears in her
eyes and she said, Jamie, she said, I have been
praying for this day since the day I left. She said,
(25:27):
I never would have left having thought that your dad
was going to try to keep you. And so we
just have this incredible heart to heart and I get
to hear her side of it all, and it's been
so sweet. Ever since we have such a close relationship.
She does all of our finances for Faithful Restored. She
(25:48):
moved to Nashville when we had our first child, and
that alone has been such a story of restoration in
an area of my life that I didn't even know needed.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
It could do amazing things. Okay, so here you are
in Nashville. Married, got your dream job. You're teaching what grade?
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Second?
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Second grade? A bunch of cute little Yeah right, if
it wasn't for the parents, it would be a great job.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
So I had good parents. Yeah really, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Not every teacher can say that now, but anyway, you
got it. And then you and Daniel get pregnant. Tell
me about that.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
We have our first child, Madeline, Precious, you know, little perfect,
little girl. Two years later we have a little son,
William and Precious perfect, and we are set. We have
a boy and a girl, and we're like, Okay, I
think we're done having kids.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
I mean, you are, leave it to beaver happy.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
We are yep, just everything.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
What does your husband do. He's an attorney.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
He's a title attorney, so he runs a title escer business.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Okay, so he's doing his attorney thing. You're doing the
teacher thing. You got the two kids, you start in
your life, kind of reconciled with your mom a little bit.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
My mom when we had Madeline, when I went back,
I got to take off six months with each child.
It was amazing. And when I went back to work,
she would keep our kids one night a week and
all the.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Next day, and so you had date night.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
We had date night. I mean, everyone's like, what did
you do with that night? It flies?
Speaker 2 (27:24):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
It wasn't some extravagant weekly date night. It did matter,
but exactly it was fantastic.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Had four and four years. Yeah, that's a lot, that's
a bunch. So those date nights were they were restorative
in their own right.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Yes, yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
So everything seems great, Everything is great, and you just
alluded to upcoming tragedy.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
We even we were coming back from Knoxville. We did
a weekend with Daniel's law school buddies from the Bible study,
and I remember driving back in the car and they
wake up early the last day and just like, how
can I pray for you and stuff? And that was
November and we were just talking like we twenty fifteen,
and we're like, man, everything is just going really well.
(28:11):
And that was late November, and then it's kind of.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Like everything leading up to your dad killing.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Himself right exactly exactly call before the storm, which I
didn't even realize. And middle of December. I go to
work one morning, Daniel goes to work, and we have
a nanny at our house. Nanny shared with our best friends.
So they had a little boy, Jack that was the
same age as William, and so we would have her
(28:37):
come to our house stay with our kids, she'd take
him out. It was it was glorious. And so I
get a call at work that William had choked and
he was not breathing. And I always say I got
a call, but actually didn't get a call. That's a lie.
Two coworkers came to my door. I don't know why.
In my own story I say I got a call.
(28:59):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
But anyway, trauma has weird ways of.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Manifesting gets I often say that, like I got a call.
I even wrote it in a story that is published
in a book, and I'm like, reading this, I'm like,
that's not even what happened.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
I don't know, But anyway, it's trauma does very weird
things to how you cope with and remember things.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
True. It just does.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
It's not really a lie, I know, well it is.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
It's in inaccuracy, okay, but it's not a lie because
you bill, But it's true. Yes, it's not a lie
because somehow, when we deal with trauma, our brains wire
certain things to try to help shield us from the pain,
and it manifests itself in inaccurate memories.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
And you know what I think that comes from is
when Madeline was eighteen months old, I got a same
classroom everything, A couple of years before this happened. I
got a call in my classroom and said Madeline had
a seizure and being transferred to Vanderbilt.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
That was your first trauma.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
That was my first trauma. So I think whenever I
recall that that Honestly, I think that's why I say
that because I had had basically the same almost to
the day, would have been a couple years prior. I
got a call and said something happened with Madeline and
she's being transferred to vander Well, that's all. Yeah, So
(30:25):
two people come to your room, two people come to
my room and say, William's choked. He's not breathing.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
They say that, yes, Oh gosh, I.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Mean, what's What's What else do you say?
Speaker 2 (30:35):
I don't know. I'm just thinking about what your reaction
to that is in front of a bunch of second griders.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Well, here's the thing. I mean, my story walking through
all this, there are so many gifts that the Lord's like,
I've got you his hand is in all over this.
And one of those things was my class was at
a recess and I was going to we had a
party that night. Our friends had a Christmas party and
(31:00):
Daniel was supposed to dress up, and of course he
didn't have a costume, So like, I'm going to go
get him a costume. So I'm like, hey, can you
watch my classes? It's Santa No, it's it was a twenties.
It was a themed I had.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
They had Chris Skringle in the twenties.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
He's like this fit. Yeah, he had he had to
be like, you know some I don't even know what
I was going to get. Yeah, but anyway, so I'm
going to try to find a gangster outfit. And I
was back in my classroom by myself, and they found me,
and so I instantly grabbed my keys and left.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
But I'll tell you, does choked.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
To not breathing register with you yet or is it?
I need to get to my son because they're taking
care of him. He's probably scared.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
This this is crazy. But that morning I woke up
early and I was like behind on a Bible study
that was going to do. It was like I should
get out of bed we had at our work Christmas
party the night before, so no shots, but maybe like
two glasses of wine. Yeah and yeah. So I was
like so tired, and I was like, I'm just going
(32:04):
to lay here longer, but I'm just going to spend
extra time in prayer. You know that, you know. So
I didn't do my Bible study and I'm laying there
and I'm praying, and I'm praying. I just spend extra
time praying in Lord, whatever it is you have for me,
just give me the strength to get through it. I'm
whatever it is, like, I just want your will to
(32:24):
be done, not mine. And kind of spent extra time
praying in that. And so when they said that, as
weird as it sounds, I knew, I was like, okay,
Like instantly, my thought back in my head to them
was okay, Lord, like this is what you have for me.
It is not good, but you are in control. You
(32:45):
were going to take care of us, and I trust you.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
You didn't start crying or get hysterical.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
No, I had such a peace in me, like I knew,
I knew exactly that he was not going to make nothing.
And me thought, I knew William is going to die,
but it's going to be okay.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Where what at home?
Speaker 1 (33:08):
He was at home when this happened, Arnie, and he
was sitting there at lunch. Jack was finished, so she
went and put him down to sleep. She sent Maddelin up.
She was four, so like she barely napped, but she
was like, go have quiet time or rest time, you know,
get ready for rest time. And William had a couple
bites left of this Costco chicken noodle soup that I
(33:30):
had bought, and he choked on a piece of chicken
and she did all she could. He went limp in
her arms. She called nine one one. They got there
really quickly, and so Daniel got a call at work.
His office was closer to the house. He made it
to the house when they were working on him, and
even one of the paramedics told him we had very
different experiences. And he made it to the house and
(33:53):
a paramedics said, I've seen someone come back from this,
and so he kind of had hope, hope. So I
got the call or I talked to them and they
told me to go to Williamson Medical Center and so
I beat the I called friends on my way there,
and I was like, I just need you praying, Like
William's not breathing, I need you praying. And so I
(34:15):
beat the ambulance to the hospital and as soon as
they pulled in and they willed him out on a stretcher,
and I was like, he's gone. I knew it. Like
his he looked perfect, but he had an emptiness in
his eyes, and I was just like, I know he's gone.
(34:36):
And they wheel him in. It's like super chaotic in there,
and doctors are on, nurses are around, and I'm like,
everyone is going to watch this little boy die and
lose hope in God, like this is, this is so terrible,
and I just thought, I'm gonna I'm going to say
a prayer. I want people to know that even though
(34:58):
he dies, it is going to be okay and the
Lord is still with us. And that is I'm talking
like Holy Spirit like coming over me in a way
that I've never felt before, and a peace that I
have never felt. And when they brought him in, he
didn't even have a heart beat. When they brought him in,
(35:19):
and the paramedics came over and said, we had I
think it was like an eleventh or twelfth round of medication,
and they and I had, you know, I kind of
I'm like, I know he's not coming back. And they said,
this is the last round of medicine that we can
give him to get his heart to start beat again.
And I was like okay, And his heart started beating,
(35:40):
so I was kind of confused at that point. They
never there was never any signs of brain activity, so
it wasn't like we think he's going to make it. Oh, no,
this brain activity's gone, Like there was never any sign
of brain activity. But his heart started beating again, and
so they're like okay.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
So I was.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Literally prepared in that room for them to his heart
and arts to start beating and be like, God is
still good. God is still good.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
In this moment, We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
And I'd kind of in my head, I was rehearsing
this prayer. Well, then his heart starts beating and they're like,
we need to transform to Vanderbilt. And so I get
in the ambulance with I sit in the front seat
and this he looked twelve, the driver of this ambulance,
and I'm sitting there with him, and I was like,
do you think I should post on Facebook to like
(36:47):
ask for prayer and the poor guy is like, I
think whatever you want to do is fine, and I
was like, okay. So here, like I'm looking back, they're
like still trying to work on him, and they're back
there with him, and I just get on Facebook and say,
you know, here's the deal. William's not breathing. I need
everyone praying for him. And we take him to Vanderbilt
(37:11):
and there was never any sign of brain activity, but
they got him stable. So he's basically back in a
room stable, looks perfect, looks like he's sleeping. The amount
of people that show up at Vanderbilt, we had such
good community, church, my work, friends, family, we had such
(37:33):
good community. And the waiting rooms just poured full of people,
people praying, people just being there whatever it was. And
it was such a crazy time because here here's this
little boy. I remember our pastor came in and we
were just like laying over him. I never prayed for
(37:53):
a miracle. I mean people all over were, and that's
totally fine. I never prayed for me. The Lord gave
me such a peace that he was already gone. But
now I'm in this confusion of like what happens now?
I just like I remember praying over, like, just be
with Jesus, just just go just you know, I didn't
(38:14):
want him to have any pain. I didn't want I
didn't want him to feel any pain or anything, and
so I just wanted him to be in the arms
of Jesus. And we spent that night, I mean, tons
of people were there and everything, and it's late and
I remember our pediatrician shows up and she is probably
(38:34):
eleven something at night. She'd finally gotten the word that
we were there, and she said to me, she said, Jamie,
I always tell my kids they're barred from above. And
I was like, man, that was hard truth to hear,
but it's what I needed. I wanted. I needed people
saying that to me. I knew it, and I was like, yes, absolutely,
(38:59):
And so we went back to the room that night,
you know, late, it's just Daniel and I and I
was like, I think we can get through this, but
you can't leave me. And he was like, and I
just my mind instantly. I mean, he's like, our son
is back there on a ventilator. But I had already
so quickly when to our son just died, and I
(39:24):
can't have you leave me, Like I can't. I can't
walk through. I knew the statistics were so high on
people losing a child in the divorce rate, and that's,
you know, the night this happened, that's kind of where
my mind went. He was, I mean, of course, he
was like Jamie. And so we go to bed that
night and the next morning we meet with the What's
(39:45):
Next guy and I thought he was in there to
plan the funeral, and he said, we want to present
you with the option of organ donation, and my confusion
in my like, am I going to have to decide
when to pull the plug on a two year old?
Or like what happens now? I had such a piece
that he was gone, but now here we are, he's
(40:06):
stable in a ventilator, like what happens now? And when
he presented organ donation, it was such an answered prayer
and Daniel and I were like absolutely, and it was
this spark of hope of like, okay, Lord, you see
us in this, and now our prayer shifted to I
(40:28):
want you to help as many people as possible, like
this is why your heart started beating again, this is
why we're here, And so I know not everyone gets that.
It's such a gift. Also with organ donation. You know,
I learned a lot in the process. I didn't know
much about it. I was, you know, sixteen, They say,
do you want to be an organ donor? I was
like sure, and learned a lot about it, and they
(40:49):
would They said, we're going to have to keep him
alive longer to try to match as many organs as possible,
which was such a gift to us, because you know,
he was back there sleeping. We were deciding do we
bring Madeline up to the hospital. She's four, Do we
have her remember him, you know, at home that morning together?
Do we have her remember him with a bunch of tubes,
(41:11):
you know, in a hospital room. So we were kind
of gathering wisdom on that, seeking wisdom from other people.
And that was also a gift with organization that they said,
we'll keep him alive till Monday, till he goes in
for surgery, and then halfway through the surgery they turn
off the ventilator. So that was also such an answered
(41:33):
prayer of like what now, what happens next? And we thought,
if we could give someone three more hours with their
person they love, three days, thirty days, thirty years, like
we would have taken any amount of time longer with William.
So if we are in a position that our son
(41:55):
can do that for someone, that's what we want to do.
And it was such I don't feel like organ donation
has talked about on the donor side as a gift,
and man, it has just been such an incredible gift
for our family. And even with Madeline, we brought her
to the hospital. Child Life of Vanderbilt was fantastic. They're
(42:16):
angels on Earth, faithful, restored, we partner with them. I mean,
they're just incredible people. And really we brought her up
to the hospital room and she sat on the side
of his bed and she looked at him, and she
looked at me and she said, Mom, I really wish
William didn't die. I was like, I know, I do too,
(42:37):
she said, but he's alive in heaven.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
He is.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
And so even to hear that truth spoken back to
us from our four year old was what we needed.
And it was such a sweet time at the hospital,
tons of friends and family. It was such a spirit
filled the nurse that cared for him. We said goodbye
the first night and she showed up the next day
(43:05):
and she's like, I just couldn't leave them. She's like,
I was at home and I just couldn't leave them.
She came back every day until the surgery. We still
keep up with her now. She was dating someone, she's
got engaged, has a couple kids. Now. Just incredible. And
the people that came in that room felt the presence
of the Lord and it was just a holy time,
(43:27):
which sounds so crazy when you're talking about a hospital
room of a basically dead two year old, And so
all sprinkled throughout there are such gifts. And then we
say goodbye Monday morning and get back to the house.
And it was the next day and our friends are
(43:48):
over making memory boards and someone said, did you hear
about Ava? And I was like, who's Ava? And they said,
we think we know where William's heart went. And I
had overheard a nurse at Van Dey say his heart
was going to Chicago, his kidneys were going as a
block to North Carolina, and his liver was going to Texas.
And normally you don't know that, you don't hear that.
(44:10):
I just overheard a nurse say that. And so from
posting on Facebook, a friend of mine was sharing William's story,
and a friend of Amy's was sharing Ava's story and
an eighteen month old little girl, Ava Martin in Chicago
had waited one hundred and eleven days for a heart,
and Monday she received her heart, and so we watch
(44:34):
a news story. Ava had been covered by the Chicago
News and so we were able to watch a news
story and the surgeon is wheeling in the cooler with
William's heart in it takes the heart out of the
cooler and this is all we're watching it and puts
his heart in her and said welcome to your new home.
(44:55):
And I was like, I love them. I love them,
and so I'm like, Daniel, I'm going to message her.
He was like what, Yeah, He's just like slow down,
like this is a little much. And I was like okay.
I was like I'm good a messenger. So I got
on Facebook and this is Tuesday night and I sent
her a message and I said, I don't know if
(45:16):
this is this is it, but our son passed away
and we donated his heart yesterday. I heard it was
going to Chicago, and I said, regardless, I'm so happy
for you and your family and I will be praying
for Ava. And within twenty minutes I get a message
back and she was like, Ava's transplant was the only
(45:42):
pediatric cart transplant in Chicago yesterday, and so we instantly knew,
and so we start writing each other back. They have
an older sister, Ella, so she was sending me pictures
of her two girls. I was sending pictures of Madeline
and a story that only God could Right, we connect,
(46:03):
and there are some of our best friends. We vacation together.
Now we have two girls. We had went on to
have another little girl.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
And are your kids friends with Ava?
Speaker 1 (46:11):
Oh they're heart sisters. Oh yeah, They're truly four little
peas in a pod. And it has been the greatest
blessing and it's just so incredible. So we tweepe each
other all the time.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
I'm sitting over here teared up listen to your story,
which makes me a big old wooss. I mean, there's
my goodness so much. And I know people are listening
to you and are teared up driving down the street
right now, maybe you even calls to wreck, but don't
put that on her. Yeah, but I can't help. The
(46:49):
profound is what I always hits me in the face.
I'm sure you have, but I just want to I
want to hear your thoughts on how so vastly different
your response is to your son's death and your father's death.
One was I hey God, and the other is I
(47:10):
thank God. How does that change happen in one's life.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
I think it over time a couple there was you
know how many years we lost. My dad died in
two thousand and eight and William died in twenty fifteen.
So in that time, I feel like a huge part
of that was attending a church that really challenged me
(47:36):
to deepen my faith, and I heard the word preach
to me in a way that just really resonated with me,
and had I had a desire to seek the Lord's
will in a way that I had not before. And
although I was saying those same words before my dad died,
(47:57):
I mean literally I was, you know, I listened to
usman on prayer from Andy Stanley that changed my prayer life,
and so I'm praying the words daily Lord, I just
want your will to be done. But when I was
praying that before my dad died, I really was had
my hands plunches, like I want your will to be done,
(48:17):
but really only if it fits within what I want.
And so which you know, I didn't know that at
the time, but then you yet, no, I had not,
and I would you know. I was a Christian everything
about it. But over those years before we lost William,
it really my faith was deep in from truly surrendering
(48:42):
and believing the Lord's goodness. And that's what it was.
It was a surrender. I had not fully surrendered, and
I was I was trusting the Lord, but really I
kind of wanted my will to be done. And I
will tell you the difference was unbelievable. I mean, I
would say, I mean, I think everyone would agree. It's
(49:04):
a greater loss losing a child than a parent. But man,
what made the difference is, yeah, was my faith and
my true belief in Lord. I do trust you. I
know I don't have all the answers. I don't and
I don't even think we'll get them one day.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
I don't think every answer or every question will be answered,
but I won't need It's a pointed we don't need them,
and I trust that. And so that's my heart for
other people listening, I want it's not if something's going
to happen, it's when. And so man, if you can
surrender and be like, Lord, truly, whatever it is you
(49:46):
have for me, I'm here for it. You just are
able to see His goodness. And I can say that,
even losing a child, I know there will be more
people in heaven because of William's story. And as a mom, like,
what greater gift than for your kids to bring people
closer to Christ?
Speaker 2 (50:05):
Well, and there's people on earth living today because your
son right in that same vein. I can't imagine you
didn't impart that same level of faith on your nanny. O.
Speaker 1 (50:19):
We love her. She actually now has a two year
old wow, and was born actually right around the anniversary
of losing William, And she's fantastic. We have never blamed her.
And you know, I talked about the gifts, like I
see the Lord's hand in all of it. And the
(50:41):
paramedics that got to our house could not remove the piece.
Speaker 3 (50:45):
Of chicken, So how could she have?
Speaker 1 (50:47):
And how could she have? And that one little I
think And they didn't remove it till they got to
William's medical center. But I think if they would have
gotten there and been able to remove it but it
was just too late, I think I would have felt like, man,
I think she could have done something, or I wish
I was there that I could have done something.
Speaker 2 (51:04):
Yeah, but if a paramedic kid do it, you or
nanny aren't going to do right.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
And I was able to say that to our daughter,
and so, you know, Malan's very verbal, has always been.
And what a gift because a couple of days after
William died, we're in the car and she was like, Mom,
you know I wish I was awake when William died.
And I was like why, and she's like, I just
think I could have saved him. So I was able
(51:28):
to say to her, opportunity. You know, the paramedics that
are trained to do that, they couldn't even say him
they have tools, yeah, and so you wouldn't been able
to save him. And I'm so thankful that she was
what at one point was like this kid does not
stop talking, Like she doesn't stop talking, Like I can't
(51:49):
wait till she goes to kindergarten and her teacher's like,
she doesn't stop talking. From once was that frustration, was like, man, Lord,
thank you for that. Because she didn't carry that guilt.
She was able to say everything that came to her
mind and we were able to process out loud, another.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
Blessing, and that concludes part one of my conversation with
Jamie Hurd, and you do not want to miss part two.
That's now I've alable to listen to. So as Sophia
and I sit here, which is Alex's oldest daughter, we're
thinking about how together we could actually change the country
(52:27):
and how it starts with you. But we really want
to see in part two. Sophia, what do you got
to do to get these people to go to part two? Now?
Speaker 1 (52:36):
To go to part two, you don't want to miss.
Speaker 2 (52:39):
That's right, ring the bell, tell them go.
Speaker 3 (52:43):
To part two.
Speaker 2 (52:44):
All right, we'll see in part two
One of my best friends, they found out they could
not have biological children, and so they went through the
adoption process. So we walked through that with them. They
adopt Jack. We have some friends have late term miscarriages
that we walked through before the summer before William died,
one of our best friends had just turned thirty and
was diagnosed with breast cancer. Had two young kids, same age,
(00:25):
Madeline and William. You know, it's just tragic. And so
we had had these things going on, these deep valleys
that we didn't know what to do, and so we
just kept showing up for each other. And so when
I got home from Vanderbilt that day, from the hospital
without William, I got to my back porch and there
(00:46):
was this basket, and that's what we had been doing
for our friends that were walking through different things. There
was a bunch of these notes and a bunch of
just comfort items and stuff. And I was like, Okay,
now it's my turn.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney.
I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father,
I'm an entrepreneur, and I've been a football coach, an
Inner City Memphis and the last part it somehow led
to an oscar for the film about our team. It's
called Undefeated. Guys. I believe our country's problems will never
(01:23):
be solved by a bunch of fancy people in nice
suits using big words that nobody understands on saying it
in Fox, but rather by an army of normal folks.
That's just us, you and me deciding hey, I can help.
That's what Jamie heard the voice you just heard has done.
After the tragic loss of her two and a half
(01:44):
year old son, William, Jamie became a magnet for others
who had experienced loss, and so did three of her friends,
who went through their own trials as well. Together, they
realized how fortunate they were to have had each other
while they walked through their pain, and not everybody in
the world had this. So they founded Faithfully Restored, which
(02:07):
is prayed for, and sent care packages to twenty nine
hundred and four women so far and counting who have
had hardships ranging from child loss to widows answer and infraternity.
I can't wait for you to meet, Jamie. Right after
these brief messages from our general sponsors, Jamie heard from Nashville,
(02:38):
what's up.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Thanks for having me, not much. I'm glad to be here.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Thanks for driving down. Do people in Nashville get nosebleeds
when you get you know, west of Jackson, Tennessee.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
This is about my third time doing that, so yeah,
it doesn't happen very often. I had to pack a
snack to come over. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Well, welcome to Memphis. A lot of folks in Nashville.
Saint Memphis is the biggest city in Mississippi. I hope
you enjoy our fairtown.
Speaker 3 (03:05):
Well, thank you everybody.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
Jamie is the co founder and executive director of Faithfully
Restored in Brentwood, not really Nashville, but is Nashville for
those listening who don't know, it's Brentwood's a I guess
a suburb of Nashville's what we'd call. It's beautiful. Actually,
there's a lot here to unpack, and we're certainly going
to get to Faithfully Restored in what it is today
(03:30):
and all the amazing work you're doing a little bit
of a spoiler alert. You have a tremendous heart, Jamie,
and selflessness and you're call to service. But before we
get there, you know, we'll unpack kind of where you
started from in your thirties. But tell me about you,
just who you are, where you come from, how you raised,
(03:53):
who you married, Tell me about you a little bit.
Give give our listeners a little glimpse into who Jamie
is and where she comes from.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
All Right, I am from a small town or north
of Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. So I'm a Yankee.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
You're you're a damn Yankee. You know the difference, Yeah,
yank Yankee.
Speaker 1 (04:10):
Stay stay yeah, right, okay, yeah, so don't yeah, don't
hold it against me down here now. And I went
to UT in Knoxville for school, and really I went there.
My two older sisters were there. Oldest one wanted a
big school with a good football team.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
So there's a place called penn State, much closer to
where you live.
Speaker 1 (04:31):
She wanted out of state.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
She wanted yeah, out of state. Yeah, and UT was at.
Speaker 1 (04:35):
Fire at that time. I mean it wouldn't be the
case now, school with.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
A good football team, I mean, yeah, she wanted out.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
You know, you're from a small town, you just kind
of want out of the small town. So, but childhood,
I grew up with two sisters in the house. They
were from my mom's previous marriage, and my parents got
I was the only one between my mom and my dad,
and my parents got divorced when I was in fifth
grade and I stayed with my dad. My mom took
my two sisters and I stayed with my dad.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
That's uncommon, it is, especially for a girl.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yeah, it really is. And looking back, my dad loved me,
and that's all I felt growing up was love and realized,
you know, later, as you go into counseling, as one
does after college and stuff, that it was a little unhealthy.
And I had a counselor tell me that my dad
(05:28):
basically put me in the position of every role in
a marriage besides sexually. So I felt it as love.
Growing up, I was visiting my mom every other weekend
and on Tuesday, so I had a relationship with her,
but pretty surface level. She let me do whatever she
wanted or whatever I wanted at her house. So I
(05:49):
loved that as a girl growing up.
Speaker 3 (05:51):
It's what sixteen year old would I know.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
It's like, there's no cre forew here, she doesn't care
what I'm doing. This is great. And so there was
a little that my mom has a big family, and
so anytime they went on vacation or anything, and my
dad it wasn't my mom's time. My dad didn't let
me go, and my dad really drilled in me that
my mom left me, which really happened. I mean, she
(06:15):
drove me to school in fifth grade and said she
was leaving and left. But my dad took that and
basically ingrained in me how my mom had abandoned me.
And so, but I grew up feeling very loved by
the people around me, had great friends, you know, I
spent a lot of times at friends' houses, and a
lot of my close friends' moms were really close to
(06:36):
me and loved on me. But I wanted, like I said,
kind of out of that small town. Whenever it came
time to graduate high school, I knew I wanted out
of that town.
Speaker 2 (06:43):
Were you close to your sisters?
Speaker 1 (06:45):
I was therefore and six years older than me, and
so as close as you can be, I mean kind
of there was never any you know, anything negative, But
we weren't that close. We're a lot closer now as
we're older, but growing up and my dad honestly didn't
treat them well, and so there's a little of that
(07:06):
of my dad treated me well, favored me. I mean,
I even looked back on some old videos here recently,
and he like was like, get out of the picture
to my sisters, and it was just like kind of
cringeish to watch looking back. But I didn't know any
of that growing up. And so my sisters didn't really
(07:27):
love my dad and get along with them because he
didn't treat them well. But they went off to UT
and then by the time that I was headed to college,
they were not there anymore. So I went to UT
and loved the idea of no one knowing me of
kind of I wasn't running from anything, but it was
just kind of a fresh start to no one knows
you in college and you can just kind of start
(07:51):
it right. Yeah. Well, and I didn't say that. I
actually didn't do it. I didn't start this like I
always say, like no one was looking at me in college,
of like that is how I should follow christ or
that is that is the model Christian. Like that was
not happening. I was like on bars having people take shots,
like and I mean, gathering not great things. But you know,
(08:15):
you can't change that now. But I went to UT
and met my husband December of our sophomore year, so
pretty early into college, and so we dated all through college.
And what's his name, Daniel? Daniel, Yes, dashing redhead. You
said you were a redhead. I'm just a little love
for redheads.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
There's nothing like gingers to just warm your heart. Yeah,
all I got news, asked my wife Lisa. She'll tell
you you're not a redhead anymore. I'm precious. We talked about this.
You don't have red hair anymore. It's all white or great.
I do have red hair at the roots there. You
go pretty sure of it.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Hopefully Daniel's getting a little great too. But I like it.
It's like sprinkled in there. It's like distinguish.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Well, it is distinguished, and you get a little white
with a little red and a little silver in there
once you get older. There's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
No, I'm still Chris Kree was a redhead.
Speaker 2 (09:09):
Let's remember that, the white haired Santa that everybody loves. Now.
It took me a long time to get least to
go out with me because she was just kind of
against redheaded people at first. She's like, I just don't
think red. I don't want to date of red. What
it a red did? I mean a red head?
Speaker 1 (09:23):
It's honestly, not something you know as a little girl
you think about, like I just hope my husband has
red hair.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Yeah, that's not so.
Speaker 1 (09:30):
I wanted someone that was taller than me, that weighed
more than me, and that could play the guitar. That
was kind of my three things.
Speaker 2 (09:37):
And Daniel is short, redheaded and plays me.
Speaker 1 (09:40):
No, he is taller than me, depending on if I'm
pregnant or what. What the weight so he's pretty small,
so the weight can kind of bury there. There are
times that I have weighed more than him, sadly, and
he does play the guitar.
Speaker 2 (09:52):
Oh well one and a half out of three.
Speaker 1 (09:55):
Yeah, so all right, so I won the jackpot. He's
so great and we met early dated all through college.
I always knew I wanted to be a teacher, and
so going to college, I knew exactly what I was
going to do in level elementary.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
Got it, and.
Speaker 1 (10:11):
So I graduated and then went on a year to
get my master's in education, and he went on to
law school. So we were both still in Knoxville freshman
year or like actually the year after we graduated. I
was my master's his first year law school, but then
after that I would have gotten married if he would
have asked me. But he didn't. He wanted to fall.
(10:35):
He wanted to finish law school and kind of get
a little stable after law school, and so I moved
to Atlanta and taught for two years, and we dated
long distance, and that was really good that time away.
I mean, we never broke up or anything, but I
feel like we both had to grow up a little
bit since we met pretty young. So he got in
(10:56):
a Bible study at ut law school, and then I
was in Atlanta started going to Andy Stanley's church, and
I feel like our faith really deepened whenever we were
separated and kind of away from some temptation.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
So did the shots stop progressively less?
Speaker 1 (11:16):
I wouldn't say stopped, I would say got progressively less.
I love your after college.
Speaker 2 (11:25):
I have a question. Yes, you alluded to you know,
when you graduate and you get out and you go
to therapy and just went right past that. I kind
of chuckled when you said that, because you went past it,
because it seemed so obvious as you said it. And
I'm not going to get into your therapeutic sessions, but
(11:46):
broken families and I'm speaking from experience, so I'm not
picking your story out. But I'm just saying broken families
and dysfunctioned the household causes rama in young people that
is often carried well into their thirties, forties, and even
(12:06):
fifties before they even understand it and reconcile with it.
Is that your experience is.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
Not Thank the Lord. I mean, I get so when
we were spending those two years apart. A year into that,
Daniel asked me to marry him, and so we were engaged,
and I was I joined a small group through North Point,
and I remember going there one week and I was
just so frustrated with my dad. He just I could
(12:33):
tell the closer Daniel and I got towards marriage, almost jealous. Yes,
the less he or the more he realized, the less
I needed him, then he would just kind of lash
out at me, which had always been his pattern, which
he had childhood trauma. You know, his dad ran around
(12:53):
on his mom, broken home.
Speaker 2 (12:55):
Must be fair, we're all broken. Yes, yes, let's not
pick on one guy. Yeah, no, I but the reality.
Speaker 1 (13:01):
Is the reality. Well, and I think, like you said,
you carry it with you. Some people deal with it
and some people don't. And my dad was unwilling to
even try to work, which is generational. I guess that, yeah, exactly.
You know, I don't fault him for that, but that's
(13:22):
just the reality of it. I begged him to go
to counseling and he wouldn't go, and so I went in.
So I was at small group and I was just
venting about my dad and stuff, and they were like,
you should go see a counselor. And I was like,
what am I going to say to a counselor And
someone said it should be a Christian counselor. I was like,
(13:42):
I wish I wouldn't have really thought of and I
was like, okay, So I looked up a Christian counselor.
There was one guy that took my insurance. It was
seventy five dollars a time, and I was like, that's
a lot of money. And I went and that counselor
saved my life. I remember the first counseling session I
went to. He said, Jamie, I was kind of telling
(14:04):
my story and he said, Jamie, I'm going to get
you to a point where whatever your dad says or
does doesn't have such a pool on you. And to
be honest, I didn't even realize it did. I was like, oh,
that's kind of weird. Like, okay, whatever, that's the goal.
It's fine. So I left that counseling session and I
was like, okay, that's fine and whatever whatever, you know.
(14:28):
But I was committed to going and it actually when
I went and talked about things, it felt really good.
It felt good to hear feedback. It felt good to
then understand all these things that had happened in my
childhood and why maybe my dad was the way he was.
And nine months later he shot himself. He had called me.
(14:49):
I was on the way home from Nashville. Daniel and
I went to Nashville to look for a house. I
was headed back to Atlanta and he called me on
the phone and he said, Jamie, I just want you
to know that I love you. And I instantly I
was like, Dad, stop, stop what you're doing. And he
said no, he said, I knew. I knew it was
kind of weird. Were you I was twenty five, it
(15:14):
was three months before my wedding.
Speaker 2 (15:18):
And can I that in and of itself is I mean,
clearly it's a broken man, But that in and of
itself is a form of abuse that you had to endure.
Speaker 1 (15:36):
I really my dad was so great and loved like
no one else. He was very broken, and I truly
believe it was on a Sunday when that happened. He
had been out watching a Steeler game, had drank. He
got pulled over for a DUI. He was on probation
(15:59):
for in a fight almost a year earlier. I remember
that night he called me that night he got in
a fight. He called me and it was late at
night and he was like, I just got in a fight.
And it was like right then, it was like role reversal,
as you know, like a child might call a parent
and say they just got arrested for a fight. It
was reversed. And here my dad is calling me saying
(16:23):
he got arrested for being in a fight, but he
was on probation and he got pulled over for a
DUI was taken to the hospital, and then a friend
came to pick him up, and I truly he's like,
I want to go home and get some clothes, and
so my dad's friend took went home to our house
and let him change and that's when he went in
(16:44):
locked himself in the bedroom. And I truly believe at
that moment he thought doing that was the best thing
he could do for everyone involved. Like I think his mind,
I don't think it was premeditated at all. Think his
mind went to I maybe in jail for her wedding.
(17:05):
I mean, he was on probation and got a DUI,
so I don't know what would have happened. The possibility
of that, I think crossed his mind, and I think
he thought if I'm not here, it would be better
for everyone. Clearly that's not truth. But when he called
to tell me that, I tried to stop him. I
(17:26):
knew he had had a couple friends killed themselves as
just growing up. I remember that, and he always said
how selfish that was. He was just like, I can't
believe they did that. That is so selfish, and it
would it was just kind of weird thinking back to
comment to your daughter about suicide. But so in that
(17:46):
moment I knew what he was doing, and so he
hung up the phone. I called my neighbor across the
street and I was like, you need to get over
to my house right now, and he ran over and
both of them got in the house, but we're outside
the door when he shot himself.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
I heard it, So that's devastating.
Speaker 1 (18:07):
Oh it was. I mean I thought, you know, here
I am. I graduated with my masters, I get my
first job, I have this amazing soon to be husband.
Like things are going so well where really, like any
(18:28):
dad should be like wow, like you're doing it, like
I'm so proud of you. And he just really struggled.
I think he was an alcoholic. I would say he was.
He didn't drink every day, and even when I was
in the house growing up, he did not drink. When
he from fifth grade till I was a senior in college,
(18:50):
I never saw him drink. And but then after I
went to college, I would come home and at.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
He's probably lonely and self medicating.
Speaker 1 (18:59):
Oh, for for sure, struggled with depression. But it was
like when he started drinking, he could not stop drinking.
He wasn't one that you could just go and have
a few beers with. So there'd been times that I
came back from college and he but he's also that
good guy at the bar, like buying everyone drinks, like
no one no one really knew that side of him,
(19:21):
even that the way he treated me or you know,
he would go off on me and make me feel
an inch tall. You know, no one really saw that
growing up, which I also didn't realize how hard that
was for people to have this view of him and
our family that was a little different from what was
actually happening.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Yeah, but that's everybody.
Speaker 1 (19:44):
You know. Yeah, it is so. But I was thankful
to have Daniel that because when that happened, I had
been praying and I really had grown in my faith,
like this is Lord, whatever it is you have for me,
like I'm here for it. And that happened and I
was like, oh hell no, like this is this is awful.
(20:06):
And I was so mad at God and just angry.
And here I am having to plan my wedding. I'm
like whatever, these flowers like, I don't care, Like it's
just I had all this stuff to deal with that
my dad left. You know, we had this house, he
had this property, this place is like I'm the only one.
(20:27):
And I was so mad. I'm like, you left me
with all of this crap to take care of and
here I am supposed to be starting my first year
of marriage and get a job. And it was just
a cluster. And luckily Daniel was so amazing and patient,
and he really doesn't look back on that time that
first year, Like I have some journal entries and just stuff,
(20:50):
and the way I remember it, the way he remembers
it is very different. So I think I was internally
really struggling, But I I had things to be happy
about too, Like I just married this amazing guy and
we moved to Nashville together and everything. But it was rough.
Those first couple of years after my dad died were rough.
Speaker 2 (21:16):
And now a few messages from our gender sponsors, But first,
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Speaker 1 (21:47):
Luckily, I had great friends. We started going to a
church in Nashville that really preached the truth. That was
life changing for me to get involved in a church.
And I probably if I wouldn't have gotten married and
had Daniel, well, I probably would have walked away a
little bit from the church. I just was so mad
at God. I thought, how could he do this to me?
(22:08):
Then you realize it's not about you, but I was
very that was my thought. After all that happened, I thought,
what kind of God does this to me? Yeah, So
those first couple of years I really struggled. But that
was the first time in my life that had really
had something that rocked my faith. But I look back now,
(22:31):
and everything in my past led up to a trial
that I was going to face later, and the Lord
was preparing me. And I'm so grateful I didn't have
I couldn't look back in the mirror and thank God
for all that had happened until I had really deepened
my faith and was faced with another trial. And at
(22:54):
that point when I had been praying for God's will,
it was like I meant it. My roots are deep, Lord,
like I'm living for you. I have such an eternal
perspective now that I'm so grateful for a lot get there.
Speaker 2 (23:08):
There's a saying that a lot of people use that is,
God won't ever give you more than you can handle,
And I think that's a croc I think that needs
to be amended to. God won't give you anything that
you can't handle in faith, But if you're not in faith,
there's going to be a lot people can't handle, and
(23:32):
you know, the truth is, we're going to get to
faith for the restored. But the truth is, I don't
think faithfully restored happens had you not dealt with lots
of things that need faith to restore you as thinking
about how you grew up, thinking about the honestly, the
(23:53):
reverse identity in you and your father living at home
as a child and then you being on the phone
with him minutes before he commits suicide, only months before
year to get married. When you've done all the right things,
You've graduated, you've got your masters, you're getting engaged, you're
getting your life straight, you're about to go to Nashville
(24:16):
and start your dream job, and boom, it's just another
reminder about how broken our world is. But dealing with
all of those things does set you up for sure,
which is why I wanted to share a little bit
about how you came up.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
So and I will say when after that happened, I
flew to Knoxville my mom. When I was a senior
in college, she moved down from my hometown to Knoxville.
And after my dad died, I flew to Knoxville for
a little bit, and my counselor was. He had also
(24:52):
said in some of those sessions, like I really think
you need to repair the relationship with your mom, and
I'm like, I'm really here to talk about my dad.
Everything with my mom is fine. We've never argued.
Speaker 2 (25:03):
Actually, you're really there to talk about you. But you
probably didn't understand that.
Speaker 1 (25:06):
Ye oh no, no I didn't. Yeah I didn't at all.
But I went to my mom and I said, you know,
I never really ask about the divorce. I never really
you know, asked questions. And she got tears in her
eyes and she said, Jamie, she said, I have been
praying for this day since the day I left. She said,
(25:27):
I never would have left having thought that your dad
was going to try to keep you. And so we
just have this incredible heart to heart and I get
to hear her side of it all, and it's been
so sweet. Ever since we have such a close relationship.
She does all of our finances for Faithful Restored. She
(25:48):
moved to Nashville when we had our first child, and
that alone has been such a story of restoration in
an area of my life that I didn't even know needed.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
It could do amazing things. Okay, so here you are
in Nashville. Married, got your dream job. You're teaching what grade?
Speaker 1 (26:08):
Second?
Speaker 2 (26:09):
Second grade? A bunch of cute little Yeah right, if
it wasn't for the parents, it would be a great job.
Speaker 1 (26:16):
So I had good parents. Yeah really, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (26:20):
Not every teacher can say that now, but anyway, you
got it. And then you and Daniel get pregnant. Tell
me about that.
Speaker 1 (26:30):
We have our first child, Madeline, Precious, you know, little perfect,
little girl. Two years later we have a little son,
William and Precious perfect, and we are set. We have
a boy and a girl, and we're like, Okay, I
think we're done having kids.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
I mean, you are, leave it to beaver happy.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
We are yep, just everything.
Speaker 2 (26:51):
What does your husband do. He's an attorney.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
He's a title attorney, so he runs a title escer business.
Speaker 2 (26:56):
Okay, so he's doing his attorney thing. You're doing the
teacher thing. You got the two kids, you start in
your life, kind of reconciled with your mom a little bit.
Speaker 1 (27:05):
My mom when we had Madeline, when I went back,
I got to take off six months with each child.
It was amazing. And when I went back to work,
she would keep our kids one night a week and
all the.
Speaker 3 (27:17):
Next day, and so you had date night.
Speaker 1 (27:20):
We had date night. I mean, everyone's like, what did
you do with that night? It flies?
Speaker 2 (27:24):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (27:25):
It wasn't some extravagant weekly date night. It did matter,
but exactly it was fantastic.
Speaker 2 (27:32):
Had four and four years. Yeah, that's a lot, that's
a bunch. So those date nights were they were restorative
in their own right.
Speaker 1 (27:41):
Yes, yeah, right.
Speaker 2 (27:42):
So everything seems great, Everything is great, and you just
alluded to upcoming tragedy.
Speaker 1 (27:49):
We even we were coming back from Knoxville. We did
a weekend with Daniel's law school buddies from the Bible study,
and I remember driving back in the car and they
wake up early the last day and just like, how
can I pray for you and stuff? And that was
November and we were just talking like we twenty fifteen,
and we're like, man, everything is just going really well.
(28:11):
And that was late November, and then it's kind of.
Speaker 2 (28:14):
Like everything leading up to your dad killing.
Speaker 1 (28:16):
Himself right exactly exactly call before the storm, which I
didn't even realize. And middle of December. I go to
work one morning, Daniel goes to work, and we have
a nanny at our house. Nanny shared with our best friends.
So they had a little boy, Jack that was the
same age as William, and so we would have her
(28:37):
come to our house stay with our kids, she'd take
him out. It was it was glorious. And so I
get a call at work that William had choked and
he was not breathing. And I always say I got
a call, but actually didn't get a call. That's a lie.
Two coworkers came to my door. I don't know why.
In my own story I say I got a call.
(28:59):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
But anyway, trauma has weird ways of.
Speaker 1 (29:02):
Manifesting gets I often say that, like I got a call.
I even wrote it in a story that is published
in a book, and I'm like, reading this, I'm like,
that's not even what happened.
Speaker 2 (29:11):
I don't know, But anyway, it's trauma does very weird
things to how you cope with and remember things.
Speaker 3 (29:17):
True. It just does.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
It's not really a lie, I know, well it is.
Speaker 2 (29:22):
It's in inaccuracy, okay, but it's not a lie because
you bill, But it's true. Yes, it's not a lie
because somehow, when we deal with trauma, our brains wire
certain things to try to help shield us from the pain,
and it manifests itself in inaccurate memories.
Speaker 1 (29:43):
And you know what I think that comes from is
when Madeline was eighteen months old, I got a same
classroom everything, A couple of years before this happened. I
got a call in my classroom and said Madeline had
a seizure and being transferred to Vanderbilt.
Speaker 2 (30:02):
That was your first trauma.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
That was my first trauma. So I think whenever I
recall that that Honestly, I think that's why I say
that because I had had basically the same almost to
the day, would have been a couple years prior. I
got a call and said something happened with Madeline and
she's being transferred to vander Well, that's all. Yeah, So
(30:25):
two people come to your room, two people come to
my room and say, William's choked. He's not breathing.
Speaker 2 (30:30):
They say that, yes, Oh gosh, I.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
Mean, what's What's What else do you say?
Speaker 2 (30:35):
I don't know. I'm just thinking about what your reaction
to that is in front of a bunch of second griders.
Speaker 1 (30:39):
Well, here's the thing. I mean, my story walking through
all this, there are so many gifts that the Lord's like,
I've got you his hand is in all over this.
And one of those things was my class was at
a recess and I was going to we had a
party that night. Our friends had a Christmas party and
(31:00):
Daniel was supposed to dress up, and of course he
didn't have a costume, So like, I'm going to go
get him a costume. So I'm like, hey, can you
watch my classes? It's Santa No, it's it was a twenties.
It was a themed I had.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
They had Chris Skringle in the twenties.
Speaker 1 (31:15):
He's like this fit. Yeah, he had he had to
be like, you know some I don't even know what
I was going to get. Yeah, but anyway, so I'm
going to try to find a gangster outfit. And I
was back in my classroom by myself, and they found me,
and so I instantly grabbed my keys and left.
Speaker 3 (31:33):
But I'll tell you, does choked.
Speaker 2 (31:34):
To not breathing register with you yet or is it?
I need to get to my son because they're taking
care of him. He's probably scared.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
This this is crazy. But that morning I woke up
early and I was like behind on a Bible study
that was going to do. It was like I should
get out of bed we had at our work Christmas
party the night before, so no shots, but maybe like
two glasses of wine. Yeah and yeah. So I was
like so tired, and I was like, I'm just going
(32:04):
to lay here longer, but I'm just going to spend
extra time in prayer. You know that, you know. So
I didn't do my Bible study and I'm laying there
and I'm praying, and I'm praying. I just spend extra
time praying in Lord, whatever it is you have for me,
just give me the strength to get through it. I'm
whatever it is, like, I just want your will to
(32:24):
be done, not mine. And kind of spent extra time
praying in that. And so when they said that, as
weird as it sounds, I knew, I was like, okay,
Like instantly, my thought back in my head to them
was okay, Lord, like this is what you have for me.
It is not good, but you are in control. You
(32:45):
were going to take care of us, and I trust you.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
You didn't start crying or get hysterical.
Speaker 1 (32:51):
No, I had such a peace in me, like I knew,
I knew exactly that he was not going to make nothing.
And me thought, I knew William is going to die,
but it's going to be okay.
Speaker 2 (33:04):
Where what at home?
Speaker 1 (33:08):
He was at home when this happened, Arnie, and he
was sitting there at lunch. Jack was finished, so she
went and put him down to sleep. She sent Maddelin up.
She was four, so like she barely napped, but she
was like, go have quiet time or rest time, you know,
get ready for rest time. And William had a couple
bites left of this Costco chicken noodle soup that I
(33:30):
had bought, and he choked on a piece of chicken
and she did all she could. He went limp in
her arms. She called nine one one. They got there
really quickly, and so Daniel got a call at work.
His office was closer to the house. He made it
to the house when they were working on him, and
even one of the paramedics told him we had very
different experiences. And he made it to the house and
(33:53):
a paramedics said, I've seen someone come back from this,
and so he kind of had hope, hope. So I
got the call or I talked to them and they
told me to go to Williamson Medical Center and so
I beat the I called friends on my way there,
and I was like, I just need you praying, Like
William's not breathing, I need you praying. And so I
(34:15):
beat the ambulance to the hospital and as soon as
they pulled in and they willed him out on a stretcher,
and I was like, he's gone. I knew it. Like
his he looked perfect, but he had an emptiness in
his eyes, and I was just like, I know he's gone.
(34:36):
And they wheel him in. It's like super chaotic in there,
and doctors are on, nurses are around, and I'm like,
everyone is going to watch this little boy die and
lose hope in God, like this is, this is so terrible,
and I just thought, I'm gonna I'm going to say
a prayer. I want people to know that even though
(34:58):
he dies, it is going to be okay and the
Lord is still with us. And that is I'm talking
like Holy Spirit like coming over me in a way
that I've never felt before, and a peace that I
have never felt. And when they brought him in, he
didn't even have a heart beat. When they brought him in,
(35:19):
and the paramedics came over and said, we had I
think it was like an eleventh or twelfth round of medication,
and they and I had, you know, I kind of
I'm like, I know he's not coming back. And they said,
this is the last round of medicine that we can
give him to get his heart to start beat again.
And I was like okay, And his heart started beating,
(35:40):
so I was kind of confused at that point. They
never there was never any signs of brain activity, so
it wasn't like we think he's going to make it. Oh, no,
this brain activity's gone, Like there was never any sign
of brain activity. But his heart started beating again, and
so they're like okay.
Speaker 3 (35:56):
So I was.
Speaker 1 (35:58):
Literally prepared in that room for them to his heart
and arts to start beating and be like, God is
still good. God is still good.
Speaker 2 (36:08):
In this moment, We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (36:24):
And I'd kind of in my head, I was rehearsing
this prayer. Well, then his heart starts beating and they're like,
we need to transform to Vanderbilt. And so I get
in the ambulance with I sit in the front seat
and this he looked twelve, the driver of this ambulance,
and I'm sitting there with him, and I was like,
do you think I should post on Facebook to like
(36:47):
ask for prayer and the poor guy is like, I
think whatever you want to do is fine, and I
was like, okay. So here, like I'm looking back, they're
like still trying to work on him, and they're back
there with him, and I just get on Facebook and say,
you know, here's the deal. William's not breathing. I need
everyone praying for him. And we take him to Vanderbilt
(37:11):
and there was never any sign of brain activity, but
they got him stable. So he's basically back in a
room stable, looks perfect, looks like he's sleeping. The amount
of people that show up at Vanderbilt, we had such
good community, church, my work, friends, family, we had such
(37:33):
good community. And the waiting rooms just poured full of people,
people praying, people just being there whatever it was. And
it was such a crazy time because here here's this
little boy. I remember our pastor came in and we
were just like laying over him. I never prayed for
(37:53):
a miracle. I mean people all over were, and that's
totally fine. I never prayed for me. The Lord gave
me such a peace that he was already gone. But
now I'm in this confusion of like what happens now?
I just like I remember praying over, like, just be
with Jesus, just just go just you know, I didn't
(38:14):
want him to have any pain. I didn't want I
didn't want him to feel any pain or anything, and
so I just wanted him to be in the arms
of Jesus. And we spent that night, I mean, tons
of people were there and everything, and it's late and
I remember our pediatrician shows up and she is probably
(38:34):
eleven something at night. She'd finally gotten the word that
we were there, and she said to me, she said, Jamie,
I always tell my kids they're barred from above. And
I was like, man, that was hard truth to hear,
but it's what I needed. I wanted. I needed people
saying that to me. I knew it, and I was like, yes, absolutely,
(38:59):
And so we went back to the room that night,
you know, late, it's just Daniel and I and I
was like, I think we can get through this, but
you can't leave me. And he was like, and I
just my mind instantly. I mean, he's like, our son
is back there on a ventilator. But I had already
so quickly when to our son just died, and I
(39:24):
can't have you leave me, Like I can't. I can't
walk through. I knew the statistics were so high on
people losing a child in the divorce rate, and that's,
you know, the night this happened, that's kind of where
my mind went. He was, I mean, of course, he
was like Jamie. And so we go to bed that
night and the next morning we meet with the What's
(39:45):
Next guy and I thought he was in there to
plan the funeral, and he said, we want to present
you with the option of organ donation, and my confusion
in my like, am I going to have to decide
when to pull the plug on a two year old?
Or like what happens now? I had such a piece
that he was gone, but now here we are, he's
(40:06):
stable in a ventilator, like what happens now? And when
he presented organ donation, it was such an answered prayer
and Daniel and I were like absolutely, and it was
this spark of hope of like, okay, Lord, you see
us in this, and now our prayer shifted to I
(40:28):
want you to help as many people as possible, like
this is why your heart started beating again, this is
why we're here, And so I know not everyone gets that.
It's such a gift. Also with organ donation. You know,
I learned a lot in the process. I didn't know
much about it. I was, you know, sixteen, They say,
do you want to be an organ donor? I was
like sure, and learned a lot about it, and they
(40:49):
would They said, we're going to have to keep him
alive longer to try to match as many organs as possible,
which was such a gift to us, because you know,
he was back there sleeping. We were deciding do we
bring Madeline up to the hospital. She's four, Do we
have her remember him, you know, at home that morning together?
Do we have her remember him with a bunch of tubes,
(41:11):
you know, in a hospital room. So we were kind
of gathering wisdom on that, seeking wisdom from other people.
And that was also a gift with organization that they said,
we'll keep him alive till Monday, till he goes in
for surgery, and then halfway through the surgery they turn
off the ventilator. So that was also such an answered
(41:33):
prayer of like what now, what happens next? And we thought,
if we could give someone three more hours with their
person they love, three days, thirty days, thirty years, like
we would have taken any amount of time longer with William.
So if we are in a position that our son
(41:55):
can do that for someone, that's what we want to do.
And it was such I don't feel like organ donation
has talked about on the donor side as a gift,
and man, it has just been such an incredible gift
for our family. And even with Madeline, we brought her
to the hospital. Child Life of Vanderbilt was fantastic. They're
(42:16):
angels on Earth, faithful, restored, we partner with them. I mean,
they're just incredible people. And really we brought her up
to the hospital room and she sat on the side
of his bed and she looked at him, and she
looked at me and she said, Mom, I really wish
William didn't die. I was like, I know, I do too,
(42:37):
she said, but he's alive in heaven.
Speaker 2 (42:42):
He is.
Speaker 1 (42:43):
And so even to hear that truth spoken back to
us from our four year old was what we needed.
And it was such a sweet time at the hospital,
tons of friends and family. It was such a spirit
filled the nurse that cared for him. We said goodbye
the first night and she showed up the next day
(43:05):
and she's like, I just couldn't leave them. She's like,
I was at home and I just couldn't leave them.
She came back every day until the surgery. We still
keep up with her now. She was dating someone, she's
got engaged, has a couple kids. Now. Just incredible. And
the people that came in that room felt the presence
of the Lord and it was just a holy time,
(43:27):
which sounds so crazy when you're talking about a hospital
room of a basically dead two year old, And so
all sprinkled throughout there are such gifts. And then we
say goodbye Monday morning and get back to the house.
And it was the next day and our friends are
(43:48):
over making memory boards and someone said, did you hear
about Ava? And I was like, who's Ava? And they said,
we think we know where William's heart went. And I
had overheard a nurse at Van Dey say his heart
was going to Chicago, his kidneys were going as a
block to North Carolina, and his liver was going to Texas.
And normally you don't know that, you don't hear that.
(44:10):
I just overheard a nurse say that. And so from
posting on Facebook, a friend of mine was sharing William's story,
and a friend of Amy's was sharing Ava's story and
an eighteen month old little girl, Ava Martin in Chicago
had waited one hundred and eleven days for a heart,
and Monday she received her heart, and so we watch
(44:34):
a news story. Ava had been covered by the Chicago
News and so we were able to watch a news
story and the surgeon is wheeling in the cooler with
William's heart in it takes the heart out of the
cooler and this is all we're watching it and puts
his heart in her and said welcome to your new home.
(44:55):
And I was like, I love them. I love them,
and so I'm like, Daniel, I'm going to message her.
He was like what, Yeah, He's just like slow down,
like this is a little much. And I was like okay.
I was like I'm good a messenger. So I got
on Facebook and this is Tuesday night and I sent
her a message and I said, I don't know if
(45:16):
this is this is it, but our son passed away
and we donated his heart yesterday. I heard it was
going to Chicago, and I said, regardless, I'm so happy
for you and your family and I will be praying
for Ava. And within twenty minutes I get a message
back and she was like, Ava's transplant was the only
(45:42):
pediatric cart transplant in Chicago yesterday, and so we instantly knew,
and so we start writing each other back. They have
an older sister, Ella, so she was sending me pictures
of her two girls. I was sending pictures of Madeline
and a story that only God could Right, we connect,
(46:03):
and there are some of our best friends. We vacation together.
Now we have two girls. We had went on to
have another little girl.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
And are your kids friends with Ava?
Speaker 1 (46:11):
Oh they're heart sisters. Oh yeah, They're truly four little
peas in a pod. And it has been the greatest
blessing and it's just so incredible. So we tweepe each
other all the time.
Speaker 2 (46:27):
I'm sitting over here teared up listen to your story,
which makes me a big old wooss. I mean, there's
my goodness so much. And I know people are listening
to you and are teared up driving down the street
right now, maybe you even calls to wreck, but don't
put that on her. Yeah, but I can't help. The
(46:49):
profound is what I always hits me in the face.
I'm sure you have, but I just want to I
want to hear your thoughts on how so vastly different
your response is to your son's death and your father's death.
One was I hey God, and the other is I
(47:10):
thank God. How does that change happen in one's life.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
I think it over time a couple there was you
know how many years we lost. My dad died in
two thousand and eight and William died in twenty fifteen.
So in that time, I feel like a huge part
of that was attending a church that really challenged me
(47:36):
to deepen my faith, and I heard the word preach
to me in a way that just really resonated with me,
and had I had a desire to seek the Lord's
will in a way that I had not before. And
although I was saying those same words before my dad died,
(47:57):
I mean literally I was, you know, I listened to
usman on prayer from Andy Stanley that changed my prayer life,
and so I'm praying the words daily Lord, I just
want your will to be done. But when I was
praying that before my dad died, I really was had
my hands plunches, like I want your will to be done,
(48:17):
but really only if it fits within what I want.
And so which you know, I didn't know that at
the time, but then you yet, no, I had not,
and I would you know. I was a Christian everything
about it. But over those years before we lost William,
it really my faith was deep in from truly surrendering
(48:42):
and believing the Lord's goodness. And that's what it was.
It was a surrender. I had not fully surrendered, and
I was I was trusting the Lord, but really I
kind of wanted my will to be done. And I
will tell you the difference was unbelievable. I mean, I
would say, I mean, I think everyone would agree. It's
(49:04):
a greater loss losing a child than a parent. But man,
what made the difference is, yeah, was my faith and
my true belief in Lord. I do trust you. I
know I don't have all the answers. I don't and
I don't even think we'll get them one day.
Speaker 2 (49:21):
I don't.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
I don't think every answer or every question will be answered,
but I won't need It's a pointed we don't need them,
and I trust that. And so that's my heart for
other people listening, I want it's not if something's going
to happen, it's when. And so man, if you can
surrender and be like, Lord, truly, whatever it is you
(49:46):
have for me, I'm here for it. You just are
able to see His goodness. And I can say that,
even losing a child, I know there will be more
people in heaven because of William's story. And as a mom, like,
what greater gift than for your kids to bring people
closer to Christ?
Speaker 2 (50:05):
Well, and there's people on earth living today because your
son right in that same vein. I can't imagine you
didn't impart that same level of faith on your nanny. O.
Speaker 1 (50:19):
We love her. She actually now has a two year
old wow, and was born actually right around the anniversary
of losing William, And she's fantastic. We have never blamed her.
And you know, I talked about the gifts, like I
see the Lord's hand in all of it. And the
(50:41):
paramedics that got to our house could not remove the piece.
Speaker 3 (50:45):
Of chicken, So how could she have?
Speaker 1 (50:47):
And how could she have? And that one little I
think And they didn't remove it till they got to
William's medical center. But I think if they would have
gotten there and been able to remove it but it
was just too late, I think I would have felt like, man,
I think she could have done something, or I wish
I was there that I could have done something.
Speaker 2 (51:04):
Yeah, but if a paramedic kid do it, you or
nanny aren't going to do right.
Speaker 1 (51:08):
And I was able to say that to our daughter,
and so, you know, Malan's very verbal, has always been.
And what a gift because a couple of days after
William died, we're in the car and she was like, Mom,
you know I wish I was awake when William died.
And I was like why, and she's like, I just
think I could have saved him. So I was able
(51:28):
to say to her, opportunity. You know, the paramedics that
are trained to do that, they couldn't even say him
they have tools, yeah, and so you wouldn't been able
to save him. And I'm so thankful that she was
what at one point was like this kid does not
stop talking, Like she doesn't stop talking, Like I can't
(51:49):
wait till she goes to kindergarten and her teacher's like,
she doesn't stop talking. From once was that frustration, was like, man, Lord,
thank you for that. Because she didn't carry that guilt.
She was able to say everything that came to her
mind and we were able to process out loud, another.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
Blessing, and that concludes part one of my conversation with
Jamie Hurd, and you do not want to miss part two.
That's now I've alable to listen to. So as Sophia
and I sit here, which is Alex's oldest daughter, we're
thinking about how together we could actually change the country
(52:27):
and how it starts with you. But we really want
to see in part two. Sophia, what do you got
to do to get these people to go to part two? Now?
Speaker 1 (52:36):
To go to part two, you don't want to miss.
Speaker 2 (52:39):
That's right, ring the bell, tell them go.
Speaker 3 (52:43):
To part two.
Speaker 2 (52:44):
All right, we'll see in part two
Host
Bill Courtney
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