November 14, 2025 • 23 mins
For Shop Talk, we dive into Victor Frankl's monumental book, which he wrote in just 9 days after being liberated from a Nazi concentration camp!
Support the show: https://www.normalfolks.us/premium
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
Everybody's spilled. Courtney, Alex just walked in the shot. What's up.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Uh, it's cold, it's getting cold outside.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
It's cold as it was like twenty nine degrees. I
bought firewood. And Lisa has uh kind of allergy. She's
really highly allergic. Stuff. We've got to give her shots
every week and.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Then shots talking about her like she's an animal.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
No, I give her shots every week. You got to
do it yourself. I give it to her like you
stick a shot in her. Two shots every gosh. Hey,
medical stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Oh do you do you have a besovagel. I'm not
real before her, butgels like you get queenish and you
gow to sit down when needles go in and stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Yeah, that's called a vaso vegel. On the podcast, I
was afraid of needles. That's why I never gave blood.
But John Norman kind of pushed me to do it.
You want so yeah, it's good, But still I want
to want to do it to Lisa every week.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Anyway, because Lisa can't so ill love. We both love
cozy fires of the fireplace, natural fires, no like ceramically.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
You got a nice one in your living room, right, Yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Here's the thing. If the firewood's a little damp or
whatever the smell it it puts off, it makes her sick.
So no damp wood. Well, I haven't known a lumber company.
So last month I got two cords of firewood and
actually killed trot it nice. So now it's not.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Yeah, so now we got anyway, I spent all weekend
on life. Do you have to pay classic for the
use of the facilities?
Speaker 1 (01:32):
I probably should have, but I did not. And anyway,
now we've got kill dried firewood that I'm building. Lisa
and I talked about this morning. I'm building our first
fire in the fireplace tonight and I cannot wait. I'm
gonna have a glass red wine, sit in my comfy
chair with my wife next to the fire and just
(01:53):
vet sounds pretty nice. I can't wait. I really, it's like,
I don't know. I guess that's what old people get excited.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
You would just need a manhattan and be perfect for you.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
I would be perfect, but I'm not going to make
a Manhattan. I'll just have ly soap a bottle wine somewhere.
So anyway, that's what we're doing tonight, And you're right
all on the heels of a simple comment. It's cold outside.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Good but as we could talk about absolutely anything that's.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Right, it was shop talk or the shop. So that's
it all right. Today, guys, we're going to talk about
Victor Frankel's book, Man Search for Meeting. There's a summary
about his life and his book called Man Search for Meaning.
It's from a blog called Mind for Life, and the
(02:42):
post is titled the Power of Choice Freedom over Circumstances.
Alex is usual as prepped up something that will make
us think for shop Talk, and we'll dive in right
after these brief messages from our general sponsors. Welcome back,
(03:13):
Welcome back Bill. Thanks. Uh, you're doing all right house
things in your world.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
I mean, I can't talk about it all on the air,
but I can tell you something after you.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Can talk about so above it if you want to. No, no, no, no,
Alex is bailed wife, as I think.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
We're not going to take the kids out of your
playoff game on Friday, So that's exciting. What are you
going to build teams in the playoffs they keep winning? Yeah,
I think I told you this or of the phone
last week. I'm going to bring the kids on Friday.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
You need to text Lisa well, because she often is
there by herself or just with people, her father, my
father in law, people, everybody calls people. It's what the
kids called. But anyway, if you text her and tell
her you're coming to bring in the kids, she'll be excited.
Sit up there. We're playing a really good team too.
(04:01):
Oh yeah, so I've spent all weekend breaking down film
and I mean put together a really good game plan.
But they're good football team. They're well coached, got a
lot of athletes, so it'll be it'll be a.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
That's how much this guy cares all weekend breaking down film.
None of his kids are on the team, running a company.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
I love it. All. Right, here we go again. I'm
going to read you a summary of Victor Frankel's life
and his book Man's Search for Meaning.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Which Phil has not read yet and he needs to.
And no, actually you asked me, off Air. I know
I have this book. Somebody else told me I had
to read it. I bought the book and like everything else,
good intentions and not enough time, effort, energy, and I'm
sure I forgot about it.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
But now I'm going to go dig it off my
shelf and read it because uh, in front of the fire,
all right, that's shaming me, all right. So it's this
thing is from a blog called Mind for Life and
the post is titled the Power of Choice Freedom over Circumstances,
which what a title. I love that. So here we go.
(05:13):
How important is the power of choice? In nineteen forty two,
the director of the neurological department of the Rothschild Hospital
in Vienna and his wife were forced by the Nazis
to abort their child. Holy crap, this is terrible. Why
am I reading this? That's what the first line makes
me want to get sick to my stomach. They were
(05:34):
forced to abort their child by the Nazis. Wow. Soon afterward,
the couple was arrested along with the husband's parents, and
were deported to the Oh really, they were reported to
a ghetto north of Prague. And it's spelled t h
E R E s I E N S T A
d T. I'm going to call it the rest in
(05:58):
Stott Ghetto the Prague. Within six months, this gentleman's father
succumbed to exhaustion and died. In nineteen forty four, Victor Frankel,
his wife Tilly, and Frankel's sixty five year old mother
were transported to the death camp at Auschwitz. His mother
was immediately exterminated in the gas chamber, and his young
(06:20):
wife was moved to bergen Belsen, where she died at
the age of twenty four in nineteen forty five, suffering
from typhoid fever. Victor was finally freed when the US
forces liberated the camp on April twenty seven. It wasn't
until August that same year, on returning to Vienna, that
he found out about his wife, his mother, and his brother,
(06:42):
who are also murdered at Aushwitz. Can I just pause
before we keep going? I know this is setting up
how this guy overcame it. But when you read that,
does that not just break your heart? I know, I
guess we should never get numb to the atrocities of
(07:06):
German Nazism.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
And I're gona actually pull up with out while we're
talking about Oschwitz. That will shock you a little bit too,
But keep going, okay.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Through these experiences, Victor Frankel developed his theories on logo therapy,
otherwise known as the Third Viennese School of psychology. Logo
therapy is a quest to unlock the will to meaning
in life. It is searched to find purpose in the
chaotic circumstances of the world.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Logo means meaning in Greek.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Meaning got it. While confined in the death camps of
Nazi Germany, Frankel noticed that those around him who did
not lose their sense of purpose and meaning were able
to survive much longer than those who had lost hope.
From those thoughts, he wrote his famous book Man's Search
for Meaning. Here he gives us insight into a more
(08:02):
fulfilled and meaningful life. Frankl recognized the importance of our
power to choose. More specifically, he understood how free we
are to choose our own attitudes about our lives, considering
all the things he had undergone in his life. This
quote is a phenomenal example of his point. Everything can
(08:23):
be taken from a man, but one thing, the last
of human freedoms to choose one's attitude and a given
set of circumstances to choose one's own way. Even though
we are all subject to circumstances of our lives, we
are free to choose to choose the way that we
think about these circumstances. To choose also how we respond
(08:46):
to them. I dare say that a few of us
will undergo the horrors that Victor experienced in the death camps.
Yet in the midst of that situation, he realized his
true freedom, the power to choose his attitude. In fact,
he said that though the Nazis could take everything from him,
they could not take away this, his power to choose
(09:08):
his response to them. We all suffer injustices to one
greer or another. Though some of these has greater costs,
our hurt and helplessness remain the same. Comparing our circumstances
to others is dangerous because regardless of the situations, we
all have similar feelings. Our choice and our response to
(09:28):
those circumstances is what matters. How we think about them
and how we act on them. Frankel said this in
talking about the power of choice. In concentration camps. We
watched and witnessed some of our comrades behave like swine,
while others behave like saints. Man has both potentialities within himself.
(09:53):
After all, man is the being who has invented the
gas chambers of Auschwitz. However, he is also that being
who has entered those gas chambers. Upright with the Lord's
prayers of the Shema Israel on his lips. To think
that both potentialities are available to us, good or evil
is a sobering thought. We find a similar sentiment in
(10:15):
the worlds of the Old Testament Books of Deuteronomy. Today,
I have given you the choice between life and death,
between blessings and curses. Now I call on heaven and
Earth to witness the choice you make. Oh, that you
would choose life, so that you and your descendants might live.
Some people believe in determinism, which takes away our choice.
(10:39):
This fatalistic perspective places us at the mercy of things
in life that happen to us. But as Frankel noted,
our beliefs about this type of perspective matter. If we
accept fatalism that our circumstances define us, we are forever
held captive to them, But we can choose to believe
that we have the freedom to do just that. To
(11:00):
choose this is our true freedom. Frankel sums it up.
When we are no longer able to change the situation,
we are challenged to change ourselves. Wow, I learned too.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
He wrote that mansers for meeting nine days after he
was freed from Auschwitz.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Really is not amazing. It is amazing. And by the way,
I'm taking this with me because I'm about to read
this to our football team. That's awesome. Yeah, we can
choose to rise above our circumstances or be choose to
be victims of it. One of the things when I
(11:46):
when I talked to when I was speeches in high
schools and things like that, you know, I still do
a fair amount of those. Interestingly, there's a part in
there that I make the point that you know, we
have health insurance, we have life insurance, we have car insurance,
(12:08):
we have security cameras, we have security systems in our house.
We have all of these things that when we wake
up and take on the day, make us feel so
happy and secure. And it's all false. It's really a crop.
The police department, the fire department. The police department shows
(12:29):
up after you've been shot, The fire department shows up
when your house is on fire.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Don't have enough time to get there as fast as
you need.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
That's it. And the point is you can have all
the insurance in the world and police department, fire department,
everything else, but the truth is, today your house can
burn down and nothing you do about it. Today, somebody
can break in and still your jewelry. Today, the economic
world could collapse and somebody could have a run on
the banks and you could end up with no money
(12:56):
that literally could have today you're four wayk and investments,
the stock market collapse in it could go all go
away today. As horrific as it is to think about,
somebody that you love could be in a horrific car recondie,
or somebody could murder your wife or children. There could
(13:17):
be a school shooting that your family's involved in. I mean,
it's horrible to think of. But the world has evil
all in it, and all of the things that you
think ensure you that make you comfortable, that you think
you're secure in today, something could happen to make all
of that go away. Will be right back. So when
(14:03):
you come to terms of the fact that really you
don't have control over any of that stuff, then you
start to really think about what you do have control over.
And it's your word, it's your responses, it's how you
carry yourself. That's the only thing someone can't reach inside
(14:24):
of you and take out of you is your character,
your word, and your choice and I really do. I
say that to a lot of young people, trying to
convince them what's really important in the world. And it's
interesting that in that blog summary that Frankel said the
(14:45):
Nazis took everything from him. They took his wife, his family,
he had typhoid fever, and he liked many other persecuted Jews,
they took everything. But he said the one thing they
couldn't take from him was his choice. And when you
think about that, and when the world hits us in
the mouth with a bad day at work, or our
(15:08):
kids drive us crazy or something else, and again it's
set in there. It's not healthy to compare people's suffering,
so I don't mean to do it that way. But
the point is, if you think about him and his
ability to choose whatever happens this week that drags us down,
(15:31):
I think it's really thoughtful and helpful to remember that
really the desperation of those events largely depend on how
we choose to respond to him.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
And our response can be really convicting to other people
in those moments.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
That's a really good point. You can be a beacon
of light and hope in someone else's darkness by illustrating
a choice of response.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
I mean, when you were reading this, I was thinking
about Christ on the crossing forgive them Father, for they
don't know what they do.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yeah, I mean, it's how we choose to what's that?
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Oh, so the when you're talking about security, reminding me
this great quote from Helen Keller. She said security is
mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor
do the children of men as a whole experience it.
Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than
outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing
at all.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Who wrote that?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Helen Keller? Is that great?
Speaker 1 (16:34):
She's a bad Yeah? I mean, yeah, I wish I
had her on my football team. I take people like that.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Go visit her home at Alabama. I don't know if
you've done it.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
I know you've told me it's I'm going. Yeah. I mean,
I think this is a great shop talk. It's just
as a reminder that we're all going to be hit
in the mouth. We're all going to have problems, and
you don't want to compare them because one, you know,
there's levels, obviously, but how it feels to you is
(17:04):
very very personal. But it's really not about that we
should we should expect problems to come. But what we
have to do is understand we have the freedom to
choose our response to that. And that's liberating in the
face of difficulty, And like you said, serves as a
beautiful illustration to uplift others who are also dealing with issues,
(17:26):
because we all are dealing.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
With them, all right, something negative. Sixty six percent of
US millennials do not know what ashwoodz is what and
forty eight percent cannot name a single Nazi concentration camper.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Getto are you kidding me? I'm not kidding you. How
is that possible?
Speaker 3 (17:44):
And then one of the most surprising results that survey
found two is nearly twenty percent of millennials in gen
Z and New York feel that the Jews caused the Holocaust?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
And I got to tell you, I actually met someone
this year.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
How is that possible?
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Our education system, two thirds of kids are not on
grade level in America.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
We got a lot of problems.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
What were you best say? I'm suing, Oh, I.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Met somebody this weekend. This was like it's actually like
affected me in a negative way. So they're in you know, Mississippi,
I meet this person, and she kept talking about black peoples,
is like, you know they're not you know, they're not
worth anything good.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
They just cause problems. And I'm like, why are you
talking about them as a group like that?
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Like these are individuals and the data doesn't even show
that there's great data. One of my mentors, Brad Wilcox,
he's like the leading marriage expert, and I forget the
exact data, but it's it's something like, you know, fifty
six percent or sixty five percent of black man are
married and have a job, right, So it's even just
like this misconception out there that there's just like this
big swath of people. Is the title of this article
(18:46):
is most black men are doing just fine, right, So
it's like, why are we category throwing all of these people?
Speaker 1 (18:51):
What was this racist woman?
Speaker 3 (18:54):
But she's like, that's just how we grew up in
Mississippi and that's just you know, how we What I'm saying,
it's it was shocking to me to like hear somebody
verbalize this, you know, to me, like a wealthy, affluent
person in Mississippi saying this to me, And I'm like.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
I hope you've got in our grill a little bit.
Oh yeah, that's a boy.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
But I'm saying it's just like you know, the stats too,
A twenty percent of millennials in New York feel like
the Jews caused the Holocaust. Like it is shocking how
much of this you know races It's.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Still it's still out there. Yeah, it's patent ignorance. Yeah
that makes me want to throw up, But in good
no way.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
It's the only time I've actually experienced that in Mississippi.
So to be fair with all the negative, yeah, let's
not hammer Mississippi.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Then we end up being what we're detesting.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
I've been there for a decade and that's the only
honestly conversation I've had like that.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
So it's just incredible to me that people exist in
today's world but actually think that way. But here's the thing,
how do we choose to respond to that? Yeah, how
do we choose to respond to that blatant racism? Well?
Speaker 3 (19:55):
I told her actually build Donovan's data, which is fascinating,
I guess telling you about going to its presentation that
in Memphis, eighty percent of the crime is convict committed
by twenty percent of the perpetrators, and that number of
that twenty percent is only eighteen hundred people. So you
have eighteen hundred people terriorizing, holding a one point three
million person population hostage. So it's like you think the
(20:16):
problem is that big. No, it's like thirteen hundred people.
Just throw them in jail, like we got to deal
with those people, or six eighteen hundred people. Yeah, and
it's really not like there's all these bad people out there,
white or blacker and different.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
It's eighteen hundred people.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Yeah, that's we've actually talked about that a lot on
the Chamber of the Chamber Commerce. The presidents are going
on to the Chamber of Commerce and that it's exactly
that there's about two thousand people holding a municipal area
total area that's almost close to me, and people hostage
by their actions. And the police will tell you that
(20:51):
it's they're not arresting new people all the time. They're
resting the same people over and over and over again.
So get rid of those two thousand people in your
crime drops by about eighty percent. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
But Bill Donovant is choosing to be positive about the situation.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Exactly right. And we can choose to detest that woman
or try to educate her we can choose to not
fathom how sixty percent of millennials had never even heard
of Oshwitz, or choose to educate them.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Make sure that our schools are actually teaching them.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Out those for God's sakes, that's the one that we
need to do a whole We need to do a
series on school. Yeah, yeah, we should figure it out,
all right. So that's a lot. That is how the
shop talk's supposed to go.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
You know, actually be great to do a follow up
shop talk once you've read the book. Yeah, and then
deeper thoughts from Bill on Man Search remaining.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
I'll do that, and I promise you I will read
the book. I own it. I got to read the book. Okay, guys,
how important is the power choice? Well, since it's the
only thing that you really own that nobody can take
from you, I would say that would be something that
is of vital importance. Victor Frankel's life and his book
(22:10):
A Man Search for Meaning got a lot to learn
from it, first and foremost as a member of the army.
In normal folks, protect what you can protect, your word,
your response to issues, your ability to choose your response
to those issues. If you enjoyed this episode. Please rate,
(22:30):
review it, share it on social, share it with friends,
subscribe to the podcast, and write me anytime at Bill
at normal folks dot us. If you have ideas for
shop talk, we'd love to take them up. And if
you have ideas for people would be guests on an
Army and Normal Folks, Alex will call them up and
see if they can actually put two sentences together and
(22:51):
then we can interview them and then how.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
It works, how it works.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Okay, Yeah, that's it. Enjoyed being with you in the
shop and we'll see you next week. To ta
Everybody's spilled. Courtney, Alex just walked in the shot. What's up.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Uh, it's cold, it's getting cold outside.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
It's cold as it was like twenty nine degrees. I
bought firewood. And Lisa has uh kind of allergy. She's
really highly allergic. Stuff. We've got to give her shots
every week and.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Then shots talking about her like she's an animal.
Speaker 3 (00:26):
No, I give her shots every week. You got to
do it yourself. I give it to her like you
stick a shot in her. Two shots every gosh. Hey,
medical stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
Oh do you do you have a besovagel. I'm not
real before her, butgels like you get queenish and you
gow to sit down when needles go in and stuff. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Yeah, that's called a vaso vegel. On the podcast, I
was afraid of needles. That's why I never gave blood.
But John Norman kind of pushed me to do it.
You want so yeah, it's good, But still I want
to want to do it to Lisa every week.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
Anyway, because Lisa can't so ill love. We both love
cozy fires of the fireplace, natural fires, no like ceramically.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
You got a nice one in your living room, right, Yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Here's the thing. If the firewood's a little damp or
whatever the smell it it puts off, it makes her sick.
So no damp wood. Well, I haven't known a lumber company.
So last month I got two cords of firewood and
actually killed trot it nice. So now it's not.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Yeah, so now we got anyway, I spent all weekend
on life. Do you have to pay classic for the
use of the facilities?
Speaker 1 (01:32):
I probably should have, but I did not. And anyway,
now we've got kill dried firewood that I'm building. Lisa
and I talked about this morning. I'm building our first
fire in the fireplace tonight and I cannot wait. I'm
gonna have a glass red wine, sit in my comfy
chair with my wife next to the fire and just
(01:53):
vet sounds pretty nice. I can't wait. I really, it's like,
I don't know. I guess that's what old people get excited.
Speaker 2 (02:01):
You would just need a manhattan and be perfect for you.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
I would be perfect, but I'm not going to make
a Manhattan. I'll just have ly soap a bottle wine somewhere.
So anyway, that's what we're doing tonight, And you're right
all on the heels of a simple comment. It's cold outside.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
Good but as we could talk about absolutely anything that's.
Speaker 1 (02:20):
Right, it was shop talk or the shop. So that's
it all right. Today, guys, we're going to talk about
Victor Frankel's book, Man Search for Meeting. There's a summary
about his life and his book called Man Search for Meaning.
It's from a blog called Mind for Life, and the
(02:42):
post is titled the Power of Choice Freedom over Circumstances.
Alex is usual as prepped up something that will make
us think for shop Talk, and we'll dive in right
after these brief messages from our general sponsors. Welcome back,
(03:13):
Welcome back Bill. Thanks. Uh, you're doing all right house
things in your world.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
I mean, I can't talk about it all on the air,
but I can tell you something after you.
Speaker 1 (03:22):
Can talk about so above it if you want to. No, no, no, no,
Alex is bailed wife, as I think.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
We're not going to take the kids out of your
playoff game on Friday, So that's exciting. What are you
going to build teams in the playoffs they keep winning? Yeah,
I think I told you this or of the phone
last week. I'm going to bring the kids on Friday.
Speaker 1 (03:41):
You need to text Lisa well, because she often is
there by herself or just with people, her father, my
father in law, people, everybody calls people. It's what the
kids called. But anyway, if you text her and tell
her you're coming to bring in the kids, she'll be excited.
Sit up there. We're playing a really good team too.
(04:01):
Oh yeah, so I've spent all weekend breaking down film
and I mean put together a really good game plan.
But they're good football team. They're well coached, got a
lot of athletes, so it'll be it'll be a.
Speaker 3 (04:16):
That's how much this guy cares all weekend breaking down film.
None of his kids are on the team, running a company.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
I love it. All. Right, here we go again. I'm
going to read you a summary of Victor Frankel's life
and his book Man's Search for Meaning.
Speaker 3 (04:34):
Which Phil has not read yet and he needs to.
And no, actually you asked me, off Air. I know
I have this book. Somebody else told me I had
to read it. I bought the book and like everything else,
good intentions and not enough time, effort, energy, and I'm
sure I forgot about it.
Speaker 1 (04:51):
But now I'm going to go dig it off my
shelf and read it because uh, in front of the fire,
all right, that's shaming me, all right. So it's this
thing is from a blog called Mind for Life and
the post is titled the Power of Choice Freedom over Circumstances,
which what a title. I love that. So here we go.
(05:13):
How important is the power of choice? In nineteen forty two,
the director of the neurological department of the Rothschild Hospital
in Vienna and his wife were forced by the Nazis
to abort their child. Holy crap, this is terrible. Why
am I reading this? That's what the first line makes
me want to get sick to my stomach. They were
(05:34):
forced to abort their child by the Nazis. Wow. Soon afterward,
the couple was arrested along with the husband's parents, and
were deported to the Oh really, they were reported to
a ghetto north of Prague. And it's spelled t h
E R E s I E N S T A
d T. I'm going to call it the rest in
(05:58):
Stott Ghetto the Prague. Within six months, this gentleman's father
succumbed to exhaustion and died. In nineteen forty four, Victor Frankel,
his wife Tilly, and Frankel's sixty five year old mother
were transported to the death camp at Auschwitz. His mother
was immediately exterminated in the gas chamber, and his young
(06:20):
wife was moved to bergen Belsen, where she died at
the age of twenty four in nineteen forty five, suffering
from typhoid fever. Victor was finally freed when the US
forces liberated the camp on April twenty seven. It wasn't
until August that same year, on returning to Vienna, that
he found out about his wife, his mother, and his brother,
(06:42):
who are also murdered at Aushwitz. Can I just pause
before we keep going? I know this is setting up
how this guy overcame it. But when you read that,
does that not just break your heart? I know, I
guess we should never get numb to the atrocities of
(07:06):
German Nazism.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
And I're gona actually pull up with out while we're
talking about Oschwitz. That will shock you a little bit too,
But keep going, okay.
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Through these experiences, Victor Frankel developed his theories on logo therapy,
otherwise known as the Third Viennese School of psychology. Logo
therapy is a quest to unlock the will to meaning
in life. It is searched to find purpose in the
chaotic circumstances of the world.
Speaker 2 (07:36):
Logo means meaning in Greek.
Speaker 1 (07:39):
Meaning got it. While confined in the death camps of
Nazi Germany, Frankel noticed that those around him who did
not lose their sense of purpose and meaning were able
to survive much longer than those who had lost hope.
From those thoughts, he wrote his famous book Man's Search
for Meaning. Here he gives us insight into a more
(08:02):
fulfilled and meaningful life. Frankl recognized the importance of our
power to choose. More specifically, he understood how free we
are to choose our own attitudes about our lives, considering
all the things he had undergone in his life. This
quote is a phenomenal example of his point. Everything can
(08:23):
be taken from a man, but one thing, the last
of human freedoms to choose one's attitude and a given
set of circumstances to choose one's own way. Even though
we are all subject to circumstances of our lives, we
are free to choose to choose the way that we
think about these circumstances. To choose also how we respond
(08:46):
to them. I dare say that a few of us
will undergo the horrors that Victor experienced in the death camps.
Yet in the midst of that situation, he realized his
true freedom, the power to choose his attitude. In fact,
he said that though the Nazis could take everything from him,
they could not take away this, his power to choose
(09:08):
his response to them. We all suffer injustices to one
greer or another. Though some of these has greater costs,
our hurt and helplessness remain the same. Comparing our circumstances
to others is dangerous because regardless of the situations, we
all have similar feelings. Our choice and our response to
(09:28):
those circumstances is what matters. How we think about them
and how we act on them. Frankel said this in
talking about the power of choice. In concentration camps. We
watched and witnessed some of our comrades behave like swine,
while others behave like saints. Man has both potentialities within himself.
(09:53):
After all, man is the being who has invented the
gas chambers of Auschwitz. However, he is also that being
who has entered those gas chambers. Upright with the Lord's
prayers of the Shema Israel on his lips. To think
that both potentialities are available to us, good or evil
is a sobering thought. We find a similar sentiment in
(10:15):
the worlds of the Old Testament Books of Deuteronomy. Today,
I have given you the choice between life and death,
between blessings and curses. Now I call on heaven and
Earth to witness the choice you make. Oh, that you
would choose life, so that you and your descendants might live.
Some people believe in determinism, which takes away our choice.
(10:39):
This fatalistic perspective places us at the mercy of things
in life that happen to us. But as Frankel noted,
our beliefs about this type of perspective matter. If we
accept fatalism that our circumstances define us, we are forever
held captive to them, But we can choose to believe
that we have the freedom to do just that. To
(11:00):
choose this is our true freedom. Frankel sums it up.
When we are no longer able to change the situation,
we are challenged to change ourselves. Wow, I learned too.
Speaker 3 (11:15):
He wrote that mansers for meeting nine days after he
was freed from Auschwitz.
Speaker 1 (11:21):
Really is not amazing. It is amazing. And by the way,
I'm taking this with me because I'm about to read
this to our football team. That's awesome. Yeah, we can
choose to rise above our circumstances or be choose to
be victims of it. One of the things when I
(11:46):
when I talked to when I was speeches in high
schools and things like that, you know, I still do
a fair amount of those. Interestingly, there's a part in
there that I make the point that you know, we
have health insurance, we have life insurance, we have car insurance,
(12:08):
we have security cameras, we have security systems in our house.
We have all of these things that when we wake
up and take on the day, make us feel so
happy and secure. And it's all false. It's really a crop.
The police department, the fire department. The police department shows
(12:29):
up after you've been shot, The fire department shows up
when your house is on fire.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Don't have enough time to get there as fast as
you need.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
That's it. And the point is you can have all
the insurance in the world and police department, fire department,
everything else, but the truth is, today your house can
burn down and nothing you do about it. Today, somebody
can break in and still your jewelry. Today, the economic
world could collapse and somebody could have a run on
the banks and you could end up with no money
(12:56):
that literally could have today you're four wayk and investments,
the stock market collapse in it could go all go
away today. As horrific as it is to think about,
somebody that you love could be in a horrific car recondie,
or somebody could murder your wife or children. There could
(13:17):
be a school shooting that your family's involved in. I mean,
it's horrible to think of. But the world has evil
all in it, and all of the things that you
think ensure you that make you comfortable, that you think
you're secure in today, something could happen to make all
of that go away. Will be right back. So when
(14:03):
you come to terms of the fact that really you
don't have control over any of that stuff, then you
start to really think about what you do have control over.
And it's your word, it's your responses, it's how you
carry yourself. That's the only thing someone can't reach inside
(14:24):
of you and take out of you is your character,
your word, and your choice and I really do. I
say that to a lot of young people, trying to
convince them what's really important in the world. And it's
interesting that in that blog summary that Frankel said the
(14:45):
Nazis took everything from him. They took his wife, his family,
he had typhoid fever, and he liked many other persecuted Jews,
they took everything. But he said the one thing they
couldn't take from him was his choice. And when you
think about that, and when the world hits us in
the mouth with a bad day at work, or our
(15:08):
kids drive us crazy or something else, and again it's
set in there. It's not healthy to compare people's suffering,
so I don't mean to do it that way. But
the point is, if you think about him and his
ability to choose whatever happens this week that drags us down,
(15:31):
I think it's really thoughtful and helpful to remember that
really the desperation of those events largely depend on how
we choose to respond to him.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
And our response can be really convicting to other people
in those moments.
Speaker 1 (15:50):
That's a really good point. You can be a beacon
of light and hope in someone else's darkness by illustrating
a choice of response.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
I mean, when you were reading this, I was thinking
about Christ on the crossing forgive them Father, for they
don't know what they do.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
Yeah, I mean, it's how we choose to what's that?
Speaker 3 (16:10):
Oh, so the when you're talking about security, reminding me
this great quote from Helen Keller. She said security is
mostly a superstition. It does not exist in nature, nor
do the children of men as a whole experience it.
Avoiding danger is no safer in the long run than
outright exposure. Life is either a daring adventure or nothing
at all.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Who wrote that?
Speaker 2 (16:32):
Helen Keller? Is that great?
Speaker 1 (16:34):
She's a bad Yeah? I mean, yeah, I wish I
had her on my football team. I take people like that.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Go visit her home at Alabama. I don't know if
you've done it.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
I know you've told me it's I'm going. Yeah. I mean,
I think this is a great shop talk. It's just
as a reminder that we're all going to be hit
in the mouth. We're all going to have problems, and
you don't want to compare them because one, you know,
there's levels, obviously, but how it feels to you is
(17:04):
very very personal. But it's really not about that we
should we should expect problems to come. But what we
have to do is understand we have the freedom to
choose our response to that. And that's liberating in the
face of difficulty, And like you said, serves as a
beautiful illustration to uplift others who are also dealing with issues,
(17:26):
because we all are dealing.
Speaker 3 (17:28):
With them, all right, something negative. Sixty six percent of
US millennials do not know what ashwoodz is what and
forty eight percent cannot name a single Nazi concentration camper.
Speaker 1 (17:39):
Getto are you kidding me? I'm not kidding you. How
is that possible?
Speaker 3 (17:44):
And then one of the most surprising results that survey
found two is nearly twenty percent of millennials in gen
Z and New York feel that the Jews caused the Holocaust?
Speaker 2 (17:53):
And I got to tell you, I actually met someone
this year.
Speaker 1 (17:56):
How is that possible?
Speaker 3 (17:57):
Our education system, two thirds of kids are not on
grade level in America.
Speaker 2 (18:01):
We got a lot of problems.
Speaker 1 (18:03):
What were you best say? I'm suing, Oh, I.
Speaker 3 (18:05):
Met somebody this weekend. This was like it's actually like
affected me in a negative way. So they're in you know, Mississippi,
I meet this person, and she kept talking about black peoples,
is like, you know they're not you know, they're not
worth anything good.
Speaker 2 (18:20):
They just cause problems. And I'm like, why are you
talking about them as a group like that?
Speaker 3 (18:23):
Like these are individuals and the data doesn't even show
that there's great data. One of my mentors, Brad Wilcox,
he's like the leading marriage expert, and I forget the
exact data, but it's it's something like, you know, fifty
six percent or sixty five percent of black man are
married and have a job, right, So it's even just
like this misconception out there that there's just like this
big swath of people. Is the title of this article
(18:46):
is most black men are doing just fine, right, So
it's like, why are we category throwing all of these people?
Speaker 1 (18:51):
What was this racist woman?
Speaker 3 (18:54):
But she's like, that's just how we grew up in
Mississippi and that's just you know, how we What I'm saying,
it's it was shocking to me to like hear somebody
verbalize this, you know, to me, like a wealthy, affluent
person in Mississippi saying this to me, And I'm like.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
I hope you've got in our grill a little bit.
Oh yeah, that's a boy.
Speaker 3 (19:10):
But I'm saying it's just like you know, the stats too,
A twenty percent of millennials in New York feel like
the Jews caused the Holocaust. Like it is shocking how
much of this you know races It's.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Still it's still out there. Yeah, it's patent ignorance. Yeah
that makes me want to throw up, But in good
no way.
Speaker 3 (19:27):
It's the only time I've actually experienced that in Mississippi.
So to be fair with all the negative, yeah, let's
not hammer Mississippi.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
Then we end up being what we're detesting.
Speaker 3 (19:35):
I've been there for a decade and that's the only
honestly conversation I've had like that.
Speaker 1 (19:39):
So it's just incredible to me that people exist in
today's world but actually think that way. But here's the thing,
how do we choose to respond to that? Yeah, how
do we choose to respond to that blatant racism? Well?
Speaker 3 (19:55):
I told her actually build Donovan's data, which is fascinating,
I guess telling you about going to its presentation that
in Memphis, eighty percent of the crime is convict committed
by twenty percent of the perpetrators, and that number of
that twenty percent is only eighteen hundred people. So you
have eighteen hundred people terriorizing, holding a one point three
million person population hostage. So it's like you think the
(20:16):
problem is that big. No, it's like thirteen hundred people.
Just throw them in jail, like we got to deal
with those people, or six eighteen hundred people. Yeah, and
it's really not like there's all these bad people out there,
white or blacker and different.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
It's eighteen hundred people.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
Yeah, that's we've actually talked about that a lot on
the Chamber of the Chamber Commerce. The presidents are going
on to the Chamber of Commerce and that it's exactly
that there's about two thousand people holding a municipal area
total area that's almost close to me, and people hostage
by their actions. And the police will tell you that
(20:51):
it's they're not arresting new people all the time. They're
resting the same people over and over and over again.
So get rid of those two thousand people in your
crime drops by about eighty percent. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:02):
But Bill Donovant is choosing to be positive about the situation.
Speaker 1 (21:06):
Exactly right. And we can choose to detest that woman
or try to educate her we can choose to not
fathom how sixty percent of millennials had never even heard
of Oshwitz, or choose to educate them.
Speaker 2 (21:26):
Make sure that our schools are actually teaching them.
Speaker 1 (21:27):
Out those for God's sakes, that's the one that we
need to do a whole We need to do a
series on school. Yeah, yeah, we should figure it out,
all right. So that's a lot. That is how the
shop talk's supposed to go.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
You know, actually be great to do a follow up
shop talk once you've read the book. Yeah, and then
deeper thoughts from Bill on Man Search remaining.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
I'll do that, and I promise you I will read
the book. I own it. I got to read the book. Okay, guys,
how important is the power choice? Well, since it's the
only thing that you really own that nobody can take
from you, I would say that would be something that
is of vital importance. Victor Frankel's life and his book
(22:10):
A Man Search for Meaning got a lot to learn
from it, first and foremost as a member of the army.
In normal folks, protect what you can protect, your word,
your response to issues, your ability to choose your response
to those issues. If you enjoyed this episode. Please rate,
(22:30):
review it, share it on social, share it with friends,
subscribe to the podcast, and write me anytime at Bill
at normal folks dot us. If you have ideas for
shop talk, we'd love to take them up. And if
you have ideas for people would be guests on an
Army and Normal Folks, Alex will call them up and
see if they can actually put two sentences together and
(22:51):
then we can interview them and then how.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
It works, how it works.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Okay, Yeah, that's it. Enjoyed being with you in the
shop and we'll see you next week. To ta
Host
Bill Courtney
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com