November 11, 2025 • 38 mins
Transracial adoption is a term that we didn’t know, until we met the Taylors. The black couple adopted 2 white kids and 1 black kid. And we have a fascinating conversation about love, hate, stereotypes, and redemption!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
Shopping in a produce section in this little old white
gentleman has been in this late seventies, early eighties.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
You must have paid a pretty penny for him, is
what he said to me.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Yeah, And it took everything in me not to rise
up in that moment. I didn't have enough Bill money,
I'll put it that way. You know, I didn't want
to be on.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Some of the stuff you said that prep was really funny.
I was waiting for your sense of humor. There it
comes right.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
He didn't want to be on the local news as
that good black woman. You know, I built this whole persona.
I built this whole personality, and I want to stay
in that place. So I chose just to walk away.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney.
I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father,
I'm an entrepreneur, and I'm a football coach in inner
City Memphis. And somehow that last part led to a
film about one of our teams that want an Oscar.
Are things called undefeated. I believe our country's problems are
(01:06):
never going to be solved by a bunch of fancy
people in nice suits using big words that nobody ever
uses on CNN and Box, but rather by an army
of normal folks. That's us, just you and me saying
you know what, maybe I can help. That's what Meek
and Tracy Taylor, the voices you just heard, have done.
(01:27):
That white gentleman apparently didn't like that they, as black parents,
fostered and later adopted a white kid. This is called
transracial adoption, a term I don't even think i'd ever
heard before meeting these guys. And the Taylors went on
to adopt three children in total, two of which are
(01:48):
white and one is black, and we had a fascinating
conversation about transracial adoption, which you're about to hear right
after these brief messages from our general response. Meek and
(02:15):
Tracy Taylor, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
How are you guys? We're good, Thank great good.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
So everybody, Meek is short for Tamika. So when I
saw this, it's spelled m I K and Tracy Taylor,
and I made the assumption that the female partner in
this union was Tracy and the male partner was.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
M I K.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
And I thought it was Mike, and I thought I
was interviewing Mike and Tracy Taylor to Mika and Tracy.
Dude Taylor. So I'm already backwards, Okay, so thanks for
being here. So everybody, uh, this is really a cool find.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
For our show.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
We did our live interview with Peter momood Bosi, who
is the single dad many of you remember if you've
listened to the episode not I'd highly suggest you go
back and get it because the dude is hilarious and amazing.
Peter mudu Bozzi is the single dad who's fostered forty
seven kids and adopted three of them and is in
(03:18):
the process of adopting two more. And after we did that,
we got tagged in this Instagram post that caught our attention.
It was from an account named Foster Wild Blackfam.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
Is it dot com or something? Wo? How's it going?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Just foster wild blacker wack.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
He knows nothing about Instagram, as you could probably tell you.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Yeah, listen, I'm social media and if it wasn't for Alex,
I wouldn't know what to do with those twatter What
is it called?
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Well, it's now ax but okay, oh Twitter.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
So it was from an account named Foster Wild Black Fam,
which apparently has one hundred and forty eight thousand followers,
and whose description says not the average pastor's wife, mommy
shining light on transracial adoption. I have to admit a
(04:09):
phrase I'd never even heard of or thought of before
we got that, which is something we're absolutely about to
get into. The post had a picture of Peter with
our two interview attendees and it read this, well, look
who I surprised. You know him as the most famous
(04:31):
foster dad, but I call him my friend. I showed
up to listening on his interview. I'm so proud of you, Peter,
and the work you've done is bringing awareness to the
foster care community and representing families like ours so well, you,
my friend, are the blueprint. Your wisdom, your big heart
an added humor have helped so many of us on
(04:54):
our foster care journey. Much love to you. And it
led to our producer Alex who really he just sits
around most time actually doing something, and he looked into
these folks who call themselves foster wild Black fam who
are now sitting in front of me, Tracy and Meek Taylor. Again,
thanks so much for being here. We're gonna talk about
(05:16):
this story with you. Guys for November's National Adoption Month,
and we can't wait to get into your extraordinary adoption
story today.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
So is that about how we found out about each other?
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (05:32):
And who's making these posts? Is it Tracy or Meat?
Speaker 1 (05:35):
I'm the voice, you're the voice behind on the Instagram thing?
Speaker 4 (05:40):
I got it.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
I read that this is going to open your heart
a little show who you are, meek. I read that
when you were a kid used to see commercials and
it tugged at your hearts for children in Africa that
were starving and had no families. Talk about that a
little bit because it feels like it's set the up
stage for what your life is today a little.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
It definitely set the stage.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
It was me asking my grandfather over and over, can
we send money, you know to those kids, those orphans
in Africa?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Can we help to feed the needs for I read
that I didn't know, maybe no more than ten at
the time.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Why you want to send money to kids in Africa?
Speaker 2 (06:18):
The kid you know? I want you know, we had snacks.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I had apples and oranges on the table when I
came home from school, and I wanted them to have it.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
There were flies all.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Over these kids they were starving. This is the picture
that they portrayed. So I wanted to help. I wanted
to do my part. But my grandfather no, you know,
this is a scam. This they're not actually giving those
kids money. So his no was my determination. His no
is what set in my heart. When I'm able to,
I'm going to do something.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
Yeah, all right, so you get kids. Tell me about
this first kid. Gaff this this child of yours.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
You want Taylor.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
You're talking to Taylor, our biological or.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
You're about your first daughter.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Taylor.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
Let's see how old are you when you have your
first show.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
We were nineteen nineteen nineteen.
Speaker 5 (07:07):
Got married, got married at nineteen. No, we got married
at nineteen. First child was at twenty.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
We were still young, very young. Yeah, still in the
honeymoon stages of marriage. And here comes Taylor and.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
A bunch of a honeymoon didn't last long, did.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Not last long. But didn't know at the time that
she had down syndrome. You know, here we are two
young people and having no clue as.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
To what we're doing, and twenty year olds at least
when I we were young too, twenty year olds.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
I got no business with the baby. At all anyway,
Now you do no Down syndrome back, Yes, yes, that's tough.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Luckily, one day I was in the grocery store. I
ran into this lady and she walks up to me
and she says, it's Down syndrome, right, And I've looked
at her and I no, she doesn't.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
I was in denial. Really for two years. I was
in denial.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
The doctors didn't take.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
They mentioned it, and I just brushed it off.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Yeah, wow, two years. I was in denial because I
was young. You know, this only happened to older white
people with kids, you know, somebody over forty. I was
only twenty.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
That's just my reality, is what I read.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
Now, that's interesting. I don't know. This is Down syndrome
a heavy white thing.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
It is not. No, it's a chronological thing.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
Okay. So but.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
I wasn't mis educated. I didn't know. I didn't know.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
So funny she does.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
It, She's fine, there's nothing wrong with her. So I
brushed it off.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
But luckily the lady, her name is Martine Hopson. She
gave me her phone number and I ended up reaching
out to her. Didn't know at the time that she
was over the down Syndrome Association here in the Mid
South connected with Martine and she helped me get Taylor
align with all the services that she needed. And now
Taylor's what twenty seven years old, She's thriving, she graduated
from high school, she worked at Firehouse subs.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
She's doing really really well.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:56):
I hadn't had any major health issues or anything like
a lot of people with Down syndrome would have.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Yeah, okay, so a blessing, Yeah, absolutely, all right.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
So here you are, young, couple, married, where you're from,
doing your thing. You're working hard, falling right into your
dad's footsteps. And by the way, when you talked about
your dad, the eyes and facial expression showed just how
much reverence you have for that man. It's so clear,
(09:29):
and it looks like you've fallen right in because you
want to be what.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
He was exactly, exactly, very special person to me. So
definitely wouldn't It's those footsteps that I don't mind traveling,
you know. And so but as far as Taylor, I
remember when we came home, she went to the doctor
(09:53):
and that did her cat scan, and when we got
the photo back, I remember looking at Taylor on that
on that what.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
Is it called the sonogram.
Speaker 5 (10:07):
Yes, on the sonogram, and I could see the side
of her face, and I remember saying to myself, I
never said.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
To my wife that it looked like she has Down syndrome.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
Because of the bridge. No, I don't know if it
was me, if it was God. You know, you know,
and flesh and blood has not revealed unto you, you know,
but you know your God, which is in heaven.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
So I believe maybe that God was revealing.
Speaker 5 (10:33):
Something to me at that time in preparation for what
was to come. Even though after she got here, we
both went in denial because I remember being in home
depot with her at one time and she was sitting
in the in the basket and a lady came up
to me and she said, oh, she has Down syndrome.
You know, those are very special, special people. And I
(10:55):
immediately said, no, she doesn't. You know, just in denial again, young,
Can I ask you something? Was it that you I
got a phrase this right?
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Were you in denial because you were afraid it said
something about you.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
For me, it wasn't that it said something about me.
It's just that I'm too young.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Kids, you know, twenty year olds don't have babies with
Down syndrome.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
It just doesn't happen.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Everything I remember reading I read in the fourth grade.
I remember being in Miss Morris classroom in Hamilton Elementary
and reading about Down syndrome and it said you had
to be forty seven years old or older. And that's
stuck in my head. It happened, Yeah, it happened old,
but when I was old as all young, so not
at all.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
They got it wrong this time.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
Yeah. So it was just like this can't beamed us.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
So it was more incredulity, yes, than anything.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
Right, no way this could be happening. And you're proud
of your baby.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
Right, we got right, you know, we did. We did
everything the right way. You know, we felt we.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
We we we We.
Speaker 5 (12:09):
Didn't have a child until after we were married. You know,
all these things that you say that you should do
in life, you know, doing things the right way.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Two. To be told that you have a child with.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
Down syndrome, with this disability, you know that you're gonna
have to raise being so young and me, I'm thinking, hey,
I'm gonna be able to have a child, gonna grow up,
to be able to run around with them and do
all of these fun things with them, and now you
hit with this hammer that says, hey, there's you're gonna
have to make some adjustments to that, you know, and
you're thinking, and you know. Of course, once we got her,
(12:43):
once she came, we realized it wasn't much different. There
was a little bit more work involved, but it wasn't
much different as far as like a child as a child,
you know.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
Uh, you know.
Speaker 5 (12:51):
So once we got to that point in understanding that hey,
this this was more of a task given to us
from God more so then it was, you know, detriment
to our lives, I think we were able to embrace
it and get to the point where, okay, there are
some things that she need and some things that we
need to do in order to get her to where
(13:13):
she needs to be, you know, in her life.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
You know. So it became more of a task that
we took on that we felt like God had given us.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
And now a few messages from our general sponsors. But first,
I hope you'll consider signing up to join the army
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happen to miss an episode, or if you prefer reading
about our incredible guests, we'll be right back. My wife
(14:08):
is fifty four in a.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
Week and about a week.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Yeah, and she has two siblings, a sister that is
fourteen years younger and a brother that is ten or
nine years younger. And Ben, my brother in law, is
special needs. And I met Lisa when Ben was seven
(14:41):
or eight, so that's now he's in his forties, so
I've grown up with Ben.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
Two.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
I was your age when you had your child when
I met Lisa. So and I will just say this,
I absolutely believe parents of special needs kids the Lord
gives those kids to very special people, because I've watched
(15:14):
Gary and Peggy love and work and toe the line
more than most parents of her dream of towing the
line and fight for their child. And at any rate,
I just want to tell you you can. You can
(15:36):
see the love you talk about your child with in
your eyes and hearing your voices, and I know the
work because I've been there. And but in the same respect,
you don't want to be treated or thought of any
differently your parents that you love, and you want your
everybody understanding your daughter has a soul and as a
human being and has all of the things inside of
(15:59):
her that makes every other person.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
Tek so exactly, I get it.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
And that's one of the things that we realized very
quickly that we had to fight for, you know, very
quickly realized we had to fight for that, because yeah,
that's a whole that we can we can talk another
two hours about that, but yeah, but one of the
reasons why she became a stay at home mom was
because that task, you know, had become so daunting, trying
(16:28):
to work and fight for your child at the same time.
It just wasn't working, you know, because you got people
that wanted to put your child in a box and
tell you what your child couldn't do or what your
child wouldn't be able to do, And so we had
to be on the front line, you know.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
And and compliments to her. She was on the.
Speaker 5 (16:46):
Front line, and she fought for our daughter to get
everything that she needed in order for her to be
educated the way any typical.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
Child in this world would be educated.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
Of course, it took a little bit more work on
our part, and it took more work, you know, on
the parts of the teachers, which is probably the reason
why there was a pushback, you know, not wanting to
dig deep into working harder and educating a child with
Down syndrome.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
A child, any child with special needs.
Speaker 5 (17:16):
But I thank God for my wife being and thank
God for us being able, you know, in a time
where it wasn't easy to live off of one income,
you know, but God being provided that he is allowed
my wife to be able to take off of work
for what a good twelve thirteen years, you know, to
(17:37):
be on the front line, you know, to fight for
our child with Down syndrome. So that was a blessing altogether.
And this is not even what story is about now.
It's just setting up who y'all are, because your.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Thing is not called black folks with down child.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
It's called foster wild black family.
Speaker 6 (18:01):
So there you are, parents fighting, living at home, living
the dream, and then you want to have another child
and you're told you can't.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
Yeah, how old were you when that news broke?
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Oh gosh, we were still young.
Speaker 5 (18:22):
I think we we decided for a while, because of
our child with Down syndrome, that we were going to
hold off on trying to conceive again. Uh So it
was probably about ten years after we wanted to make
sure that she was, you know, good and established to
the point where we could hand.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Makes sense.
Speaker 5 (18:45):
So now you're about thirty, right exactly, what about thirty
and well within child bearing age, and you said, let's
have a kid, let's have another child, let's try to
have a boy.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Yeah uhh yeah, yeah, that just kind of the Lord
was that out there. He wants to but anyway, and
then you're told you can't. Yes, how that hits you?
Speaker 2 (19:08):
It was? It was very hard for a while. It
was hard, but we.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Knew, we knew that there was a need in our community.
We knew that even if we couldn't, it wasn't our
plan B. Adoption of Falster Care wasn't our plan B.
It was our Also, we're going to do this anyway,
you know really yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, We're going to.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Do this anyway.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
So it's just split up the process. You know, we
can't do this, so we're going to go ahead and
take care of what needs to be taken care of,
fill out all the paperwork and uh and move forward.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
So that's what we did.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
We Taylor graduated high school and I want to say
not even six months.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
After that, no, because David was already in the home.
She graduated. Ye, so the timing line right up, line
right up. It was perfect.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
So tell me about as a foster parent. The first placement.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
That was David, our first placement. Filled out the paperwork.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
Like I said, we.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Put down the age group.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
We wanted an infant up to or an infant up
to the age of six, no child than six cent
just wanted to be able to have it in that
age group. Working still kind of mold and you know,
shape a child. So I got a call for a
little boy and case that.
Speaker 6 (20:19):
Actually, when you're filling out the paperwork, they asked if
you had a preference about race.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Did not check any box, just wanted a child.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
Did you accidentally leave that all or you didn't care.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
I didn't mark the box because I didn't care. We
didn't care, didn't care at all.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
That was never an issue with us. Did it dawn
on you?
Speaker 3 (20:39):
And that's when you're filling out a bunch of paperwork
and going to classes. I don't know, I've not done it,
but I'm putting myself in your shoes. You're filling out
the paperwork, you're going through this classes, you're having probably
really serious talks about I mean, you roll on the
dice a little bit on what type of human being
might show up in your life. So you got to
(21:00):
be having real conversations pillar talks, probably pretty serious on this.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
We had talks. I don't think we had one talk
about race.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
I don't think. I don't think. I'm not talking about race.
I'm talking about just.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Foster care and adoption in general.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Yes, So when that box comes up, did you pay it?
Speaker 3 (21:18):
No?
Speaker 4 (21:18):
Nevermind? Or did you even think about it?
Speaker 5 (21:21):
No?
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Never mind?
Speaker 4 (21:22):
It was it was nothing to think about.
Speaker 5 (21:25):
I mean, it was a I mean, it was a
child that was in need, you know, it was.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
So this is the question I was thinking about on
the road over here. Was there a little bit of
naivete there?
Speaker 2 (21:37):
No?
Speaker 1 (21:38):
I worked in child care for before this or what
ten plus years. My classrooms were diverse. I've taken care
of everybody's child, you know, taken care of the little
Muslim child, taking care of the little black child, taking
care of the little Asian child.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
So this was.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Just my motherly instinct. There was no box. It was
a child that needed a home, that needed a safe place.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Yeah, that was just it. That was just it says
a lot about you. Okay, So didn't you get a call.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
We get a call and it's for a little six
month old, eight month old baby boy and uh the
case named David. Caseworker described him as a little blue eyed,
brunette baby boy. I said, okay, give me a minute,
let me call my husband and see if we're ready,
and he said, okay. They brought him to the house
and it was the cutest little chunky.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Well, when you heard blue eyed, brown haired baby boy,
you knew that was a white kid.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
I just didn't know that they were in the system
because I didn't know that there were little white kids
in the system, not as many.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
You know, the pickings, I didn't I had to say pickings.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
But for the most part, we thought that they were
mostly African American children in the system or Latino children
in the system, because that's what it has been portrayed,
have been shown shown to us. But I was glad,
you know, there's more white kids in the systems of color.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
I know, I know, I know the stats.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Now it's it's one of them. I mean, hell, we're
talking about so I'm just gonna as a white person.
It's one of the things that bothers me that people
don't understand there are more white kids in the system
than there are kids of color, exactly, And it's it
(23:26):
would be obvious because there's more white people in the
country than there are people of color, why wouldn't there
be more kids the Unfortunately, the African American community as
a percentage has more kids on the foster care system,
but as a total number, there are more white kids.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
In the false system than there are.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
And I looked it up the ministers right now.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
Yeah, but it is.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
But you're right, it's something we don't even think about
and make these societal preconceived assumptions that are just inaccurate
because of the narratives we're fed.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
Right, m We'll be right back.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
So David with his blue eyes and brown hair and
what'd you say, chunky.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Cheeks, the chunkiest cheeks you could see.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Yeah, the cutest little kid ever, a sweetest boy came
into her home. And I have a picture on my
Instagram page and my husband's looking at him like Wow,
he's in total shock. But it's not so much as race.
He's in shock that someone would let this beautiful baby
boy come into the system. You know, how could you
let him down?
Speaker 4 (24:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (24:45):
Yeah, I think I think for me, you know, when
she called and and told me, she said, uh, she said,
he's he has brown hair. He's a little boy has
brown hair. Believe I believe the statement she made. But
he's white, you know, And uh, I said, Okay, you know,
it was no big deal.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
You know, I get.
Speaker 5 (25:04):
I don't know if she thought it was going to
be some pushback because of that from me, but you know,
like I said, it was, it was no big deal,
you know, dealing with the fact that he was white.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
You know, he was a child that needed.
Speaker 5 (25:16):
A home, that needed a home like the home that
I had that I grew up in, you know. And
that's one of the things that that motivated me to
be open about, you know, adopting, you know, is that, hey,
I want to be able to provide a home for
a child that has both parents in it, you know.
And I know that a home like that, not that
(25:36):
a child with a single parent can't have a strong home,
but I do know from my experience that a home
that has two parents in it, that has a mother
and a father that's handling their business the way they should,
that that child has a better opportunity to be successful
in life than you know, to a.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
God who grew up my mom almost mavering divorced five times.
You're talking to a guy whose dad left me his
four and I realize I beat the numbers. Yeah, and
that's just people may cringe, or you know, our twenty
twenty five Saudi may want to say that one parent's
(26:16):
just as good as two. Well, that's horse crap. It's
just not true. It's just fasted when they're not that
people can't come out of that. Fine, you did, oh yeah,
but I did. I mean, my wife would argue I
kind of did, but I did. Okay, But the point
is you're right, and so that's what you want to provide.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
So here's David.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Yes, brown haired, blue eyes, chunky cheeks. But at this
point you're fostering foster.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
David was the intent to adopt.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
The goals were set for the bio parents and the
biological parents to possibly regain if there were to work
the case, the goals set by the judge, and he
will go back. However that wasn't the case.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Let let's for all our listeners who don't really understand
the foster thing, and really I didn't until we've interviewed
a few folks and then of course Peter. But the
idea of have foster care is for you to care
and love for this child while the biological family gets
their life together in order to rejoin that.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Child the chaological family always.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
But in the event their family doesn't get together or
wants to give up their rights, then you have an
option to adopt. That's how our system sounds good on paper.
Seems to be a little broken, but that's but that's
that's what y'all were in for. Yeah, how in the
world you care for and love on a child and
(27:46):
create these connections with this child knowing you may have
to give that child back up.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
That has to be hard.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
It's hard, however, you know that it's what's best. You
know you always want to go reunification if the parents
have made a turnaround, you know you want, you know, reunification,
and why not.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
If you built reunification that's and why not.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
If you've built a relationship with that biological parents, with
that family, you can also still become a part.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
Of you build a relationship with the biological family toast.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yes, we still have a connection.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
We still have a connection with birth with all of
our so you know, yes, yes, yes, and it's just
an extension of family. And what's how many you know,
what's wrong with the child having a lot.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Of people to love them.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
But in David's case, that wasn't in the cards.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
It was it was it wasn't the cards. We always
Tennessee has close adoptions. However, we extended that invitation. We
wanted him to know his family. We wanted him to
as long as you're in a good place, it's fine.
Communication is open, and we wanted that for our boys.
I mean, how long can we hide the fact that
we're not your biological parents, you know, I mean up
until he learns his colors?
Speaker 5 (28:56):
Right?
Speaker 3 (28:56):
I don't know, cassh Is, how long do you think
they could hide that?
Speaker 2 (29:02):
So why not?
Speaker 4 (29:04):
Yeah? So tell me about the journey with David. Well,
I want I want to say this first, okay, h
when you approach.
Speaker 5 (29:17):
Adoption foster as we should as a ministry, because Bible
said true religion is that you take care of the
orphans and the widows, you know, and so when when
you approach it like so, I just think it makes
(29:38):
it a lot easier, you know, to deal with the
things that come along with it because you understand what
your role is, what your purpose is in this situation.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
Not a nice thing to do, it's a requirement of
our faiths.
Speaker 5 (29:49):
Exactly exactly and so and so to think sometimes God
give us task that may not be easy, but it's
our task, it's our purpose. Me as a pastor is
not easy to pastor, you know, but it's the purpose
that God has given me. And so I have to
accept it and I have to embrace it and whatever
comes along with it.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
I have to be willing to accept that, you know.
Speaker 5 (30:10):
And so for that, you know, when you say was
it hard, you know, knowing that you there's a possibility
you may just have this child, you know, for a
period of time and you have to you know, separate
yourselves from them or whatnot. Yeah, that's always on the
human side, but the spiritual side or the ministry side
of it, we have to understand that, hey, we're in
(30:31):
this child's life for a reason, and that may be
for season. We have to make sure that we give
that child everything that they possibly wouldn't get, you know,
before they exit this home. And one of the greatest
things that you can give any child is a relationship.
You can help them to a relationship with Christ, you know.
And so I even at eight months old, introducing that
(30:52):
child to things like church, seeing people together in Bible study, community,
a community, you know that it loves them regardless of
their color, that race, you know, whether what their background is.
I think that is more important, you know, than anything
that we could have ever done, you know, for any
of our children, you know, whether they wind up staying
(31:14):
with us or whether they were to go and be
with their bios because guess what if they leave us
with the knowledge of the Lord. And I hate for
this to go into well, I don't hate for it
to go into and diminisure because that's what I am.
That's who I am, and so I approach it like
so if they were to leave our home, then maybe
they'll be the ones to help their family members who
maybe maybe they don't have.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
The relationship with God as they should.
Speaker 5 (31:38):
They could take that to their bio families, you know,
and help save their bio families. So that's always the approach.
Ministry is always the approach for us, you know, when
it comes to anything that we try to do, you know, So.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
That is selfless, that is beautiful. It still has to
be ringing in the back of your very human, failed
mind and heart tough. You can't tell me it's not
a little tough thinking you may lose this being that
you love.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
I will tell you that I would going to court
with anxiety, would heart path the human side of me. Yes,
we knew that there was a chance that he could
go back. I waited in the cheers and the cold
heart seats in the courtroom, waiting and looking around my
shoulder to see who was going to show up for
(32:32):
this kid. Were his parents going to actually come to
court for him that day? Was this the day that
he may not come back with us? Those are real feelings,
But we knew that if he were to go back
home to his parents, We've given him us. We've given
him a foundation, we've given him Christ, We've given him
love and stability. And we knew and we hoped that
(32:54):
whatever judge or whoever was in a position to change
that would see what was best for David, what was
best for each one of our kids. So we hung
on to hope in those moments, is what we did.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
And it turned out that in his case, that he
was to come home to us, he was, he was
able to be adopted.
Speaker 4 (33:13):
How old was he when he became your son?
Speaker 1 (33:16):
He'd been with us since he was eight months. He
was two and a half. It was a long journey.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
Okay, So let's get into some of what Peter talked
about that I think is really germane to the story
before we go to child number two, because y'all.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Crazy, And that's what a lot of people say.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Because y'all are nuts, not your minds. I want to
be delicate, but I want to be real. So I'm
not the most delicate human being as a lumberman and
a football coach and got kind of crashed into stuff,
So I will try real hard.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
In the South, Well, there was a movie about it
called The Help.
Speaker 4 (34:04):
Y'all ever seen that movie?
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Yes, it was based in Jacksonissippi, actually written and directed
by a guy I went on this with I believe
it or not. And the movie did really well. And
it was, for lack of better terms, an expiration of
the fifties, sixties and seventies in Jackson, Mississippi, of white,
(34:29):
wealthy families having black domestics in the house. And what
I thought was so poignant about The Help is it
dove into how the black domestics ended up almost raising
(34:51):
the white children from infancy into adolescence because as many
of the white parents were out doing their social things,
that domestics would cook and clean but also care for
the children. Yes, and for those outside of the South
they think that that is a fictitious, overblown thing.
Speaker 4 (35:14):
I have news for you.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
In the South, that is his had been a reality
for many, many, many decades. So I think that's up
a little bit of a story because it wasn't just Jacksonsissippi.
Jackson may have been the setting for that particular show,
but you can go Jackson, Montgomery, Mobile, Memphis, New Orleans, Birmingham,
(35:37):
Little Rock, Atlanta, and just keep on going to the South.
That's just the reality. Some would say that mentality is
a little bit of a holdover, trying to be delicate,
but back during slavery, there were black folks that were
called house slaves that would do the same thing that
(36:01):
were picked among the slaves as maybe the cleaner or
more agreeable slaves, and then they would do the domestic
work in the house, and then they were also very involved.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
With the children.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
And then after slavery and chaircropping and all of that,
it just became a occupation.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
By a lot of black folks. Did I do that?
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Well, I think you did it as do you want.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
To add to that before we go forward.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
I'll put it this way. I'm not lost on our history.
I'm not lost all.
Speaker 4 (36:40):
I'm sure you're not.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
But you've got to remember people in Indiana and Michigan
and Kansas are listening to us that think those movies
are overblown, fictitional representations. And I'm just trying to bring
everybody up to where you and I as others are
by no means and trying to suggest these things.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
No, I've been called.
Speaker 4 (37:06):
The do go there yet? Okay, don't go there yet.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
I'm trying to set the stage and I'm just asking
you're fine in your viewpoint, its accurate from a black perspective.
I want to hear if I'm crazy about what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Well, this is the reality of what went on during
those times. This is how my grandmother was a house
domesticated worker, a maid. Yes, because of her skin color.
You know, she was light enough to go in the
house and to fold the sheets into uh layer, skin
(37:41):
light and like complexion.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
The South, Yeah, light skinned, Yes, she was.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Light scanned enough to work in the kitchen in the house.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
Quote agreeable, yes, yes, so.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
I understand it all and I hope that you're yours
your listeners, well yeah as well.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
Yeah, it's almost uncomf we'll to talk about, but it's real.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Oh, it's the truth.
Speaker 5 (38:02):
It's the cold hard facts. It is about the South
and you know what some of our ancestors had to
deal with.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
And that concludes part one of our conversation with Meek
and Tracy Taylor, and you do not want to miss
part two. It's now available to listen to. Together. Guys, we
can change this country, but it starts with you. I'll
see in part two
Shopping in a produce section in this little old white
gentleman has been in this late seventies, early eighties.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
You must have paid a pretty penny for him, is
what he said to me.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
Yeah, And it took everything in me not to rise
up in that moment. I didn't have enough Bill money,
I'll put it that way. You know, I didn't want
to be on.
Speaker 3 (00:22):
Some of the stuff you said that prep was really funny.
I was waiting for your sense of humor. There it
comes right.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
He didn't want to be on the local news as
that good black woman. You know, I built this whole persona.
I built this whole personality, and I want to stay
in that place. So I chose just to walk away.
Speaker 3 (00:42):
Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney.
I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father,
I'm an entrepreneur, and I'm a football coach in inner
City Memphis. And somehow that last part led to a
film about one of our teams that want an Oscar.
Are things called undefeated. I believe our country's problems are
(01:06):
never going to be solved by a bunch of fancy
people in nice suits using big words that nobody ever
uses on CNN and Box, but rather by an army
of normal folks. That's us, just you and me saying
you know what, maybe I can help. That's what Meek
and Tracy Taylor, the voices you just heard, have done.
(01:27):
That white gentleman apparently didn't like that they, as black parents,
fostered and later adopted a white kid. This is called
transracial adoption, a term I don't even think i'd ever
heard before meeting these guys. And the Taylors went on
to adopt three children in total, two of which are
(01:48):
white and one is black, and we had a fascinating
conversation about transracial adoption, which you're about to hear right
after these brief messages from our general response. Meek and
(02:15):
Tracy Taylor, welcome to the podcast.
Speaker 4 (02:19):
How are you guys? We're good, Thank great good.
Speaker 3 (02:22):
So everybody, Meek is short for Tamika. So when I
saw this, it's spelled m I K and Tracy Taylor,
and I made the assumption that the female partner in
this union was Tracy and the male partner was.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
M I K.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
And I thought it was Mike, and I thought I
was interviewing Mike and Tracy Taylor to Mika and Tracy.
Dude Taylor. So I'm already backwards, Okay, so thanks for
being here. So everybody, uh, this is really a cool find.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
For our show.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
We did our live interview with Peter momood Bosi, who
is the single dad many of you remember if you've
listened to the episode not I'd highly suggest you go
back and get it because the dude is hilarious and amazing.
Peter mudu Bozzi is the single dad who's fostered forty
seven kids and adopted three of them and is in
(03:18):
the process of adopting two more. And after we did that,
we got tagged in this Instagram post that caught our attention.
It was from an account named Foster Wild Blackfam.
Speaker 4 (03:32):
Is it dot com or something? Wo? How's it going?
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Just foster wild blacker wack.
Speaker 4 (03:36):
He knows nothing about Instagram, as you could probably tell you.
Speaker 3 (03:38):
Yeah, listen, I'm social media and if it wasn't for Alex,
I wouldn't know what to do with those twatter What
is it called?
Speaker 4 (03:46):
Well, it's now ax but okay, oh Twitter.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
So it was from an account named Foster Wild Black Fam,
which apparently has one hundred and forty eight thousand followers,
and whose description says not the average pastor's wife, mommy
shining light on transracial adoption. I have to admit a
(04:09):
phrase I'd never even heard of or thought of before
we got that, which is something we're absolutely about to
get into. The post had a picture of Peter with
our two interview attendees and it read this, well, look
who I surprised. You know him as the most famous
(04:31):
foster dad, but I call him my friend. I showed
up to listening on his interview. I'm so proud of you, Peter,
and the work you've done is bringing awareness to the
foster care community and representing families like ours so well, you,
my friend, are the blueprint. Your wisdom, your big heart
an added humor have helped so many of us on
(04:54):
our foster care journey. Much love to you. And it
led to our producer Alex who really he just sits
around most time actually doing something, and he looked into
these folks who call themselves foster wild Black fam who
are now sitting in front of me, Tracy and Meek Taylor. Again,
thanks so much for being here. We're gonna talk about
(05:16):
this story with you. Guys for November's National Adoption Month,
and we can't wait to get into your extraordinary adoption
story today.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
So is that about how we found out about each other?
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Yes?
Speaker 4 (05:32):
And who's making these posts? Is it Tracy or Meat?
Speaker 1 (05:35):
I'm the voice, you're the voice behind on the Instagram thing?
Speaker 4 (05:40):
I got it.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
I read that this is going to open your heart
a little show who you are, meek. I read that
when you were a kid used to see commercials and
it tugged at your hearts for children in Africa that
were starving and had no families. Talk about that a
little bit because it feels like it's set the up
stage for what your life is today a little.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
It definitely set the stage.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
It was me asking my grandfather over and over, can
we send money, you know to those kids, those orphans
in Africa?
Speaker 2 (06:10):
Can we help to feed the needs for I read
that I didn't know, maybe no more than ten at
the time.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
Why you want to send money to kids in Africa?
Speaker 2 (06:18):
The kid you know? I want you know, we had snacks.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
I had apples and oranges on the table when I
came home from school, and I wanted them to have it.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
There were flies all.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
Over these kids they were starving. This is the picture
that they portrayed. So I wanted to help. I wanted
to do my part. But my grandfather no, you know,
this is a scam. This they're not actually giving those
kids money. So his no was my determination. His no
is what set in my heart. When I'm able to,
I'm going to do something.
Speaker 3 (06:44):
Yeah, all right, so you get kids. Tell me about
this first kid. Gaff this this child of yours.
Speaker 4 (06:51):
You want Taylor.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
You're talking to Taylor, our biological or.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
You're about your first daughter.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
Taylor.
Speaker 4 (07:01):
Let's see how old are you when you have your
first show.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
We were nineteen nineteen nineteen.
Speaker 5 (07:07):
Got married, got married at nineteen. No, we got married
at nineteen. First child was at twenty.
Speaker 4 (07:12):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
We were still young, very young. Yeah, still in the
honeymoon stages of marriage. And here comes Taylor and.
Speaker 4 (07:19):
A bunch of a honeymoon didn't last long, did.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Not last long. But didn't know at the time that
she had down syndrome. You know, here we are two
young people and having no clue as.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
To what we're doing, and twenty year olds at least
when I we were young too, twenty year olds.
Speaker 4 (07:33):
I got no business with the baby. At all anyway,
Now you do no Down syndrome back, Yes, yes, that's tough.
Speaker 1 (07:40):
Luckily, one day I was in the grocery store. I
ran into this lady and she walks up to me
and she says, it's Down syndrome, right, And I've looked
at her and I no, she doesn't.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
I was in denial. Really for two years. I was
in denial.
Speaker 4 (07:55):
The doctors didn't take.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
They mentioned it, and I just brushed it off.
Speaker 1 (07:58):
Yeah, wow, two years. I was in denial because I
was young. You know, this only happened to older white
people with kids, you know, somebody over forty. I was
only twenty.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
That's just my reality, is what I read.
Speaker 4 (08:11):
Now, that's interesting. I don't know. This is Down syndrome
a heavy white thing.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
It is not. No, it's a chronological thing.
Speaker 4 (08:20):
Okay. So but.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
I wasn't mis educated. I didn't know. I didn't know.
Speaker 4 (08:26):
So funny she does.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
It, She's fine, there's nothing wrong with her. So I
brushed it off.
Speaker 1 (08:30):
But luckily the lady, her name is Martine Hopson. She
gave me her phone number and I ended up reaching
out to her. Didn't know at the time that she
was over the down Syndrome Association here in the Mid
South connected with Martine and she helped me get Taylor
align with all the services that she needed. And now
Taylor's what twenty seven years old, She's thriving, she graduated
from high school, she worked at Firehouse subs.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
She's doing really really well.
Speaker 4 (08:55):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (08:56):
I hadn't had any major health issues or anything like
a lot of people with Down syndrome would have.
Speaker 4 (09:02):
Yeah, okay, so a blessing, Yeah, absolutely, all right.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
So here you are, young, couple, married, where you're from,
doing your thing. You're working hard, falling right into your
dad's footsteps. And by the way, when you talked about
your dad, the eyes and facial expression showed just how
much reverence you have for that man. It's so clear,
(09:29):
and it looks like you've fallen right in because you
want to be what.
Speaker 5 (09:32):
He was exactly, exactly, very special person to me. So
definitely wouldn't It's those footsteps that I don't mind traveling,
you know. And so but as far as Taylor, I
remember when we came home, she went to the doctor
(09:53):
and that did her cat scan, and when we got
the photo back, I remember looking at Taylor on that
on that what.
Speaker 4 (10:05):
Is it called the sonogram.
Speaker 5 (10:07):
Yes, on the sonogram, and I could see the side
of her face, and I remember saying to myself, I
never said.
Speaker 4 (10:16):
To my wife that it looked like she has Down syndrome.
Speaker 5 (10:19):
Because of the bridge. No, I don't know if it
was me, if it was God. You know, you know,
and flesh and blood has not revealed unto you, you know,
but you know your God, which is in heaven.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
So I believe maybe that God was revealing.
Speaker 5 (10:33):
Something to me at that time in preparation for what
was to come. Even though after she got here, we
both went in denial because I remember being in home
depot with her at one time and she was sitting
in the in the basket and a lady came up
to me and she said, oh, she has Down syndrome.
You know, those are very special, special people. And I
(10:55):
immediately said, no, she doesn't. You know, just in denial again, young,
Can I ask you something? Was it that you I
got a phrase this right?
Speaker 3 (11:08):
Were you in denial because you were afraid it said
something about you.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
For me, it wasn't that it said something about me.
It's just that I'm too young.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
Kids, you know, twenty year olds don't have babies with
Down syndrome.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
It just doesn't happen.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Everything I remember reading I read in the fourth grade.
I remember being in Miss Morris classroom in Hamilton Elementary
and reading about Down syndrome and it said you had
to be forty seven years old or older. And that's
stuck in my head. It happened, Yeah, it happened old,
but when I was old as all young, so not
at all.
Speaker 2 (11:47):
They got it wrong this time.
Speaker 4 (11:49):
Yeah. So it was just like this can't beamed us.
Speaker 2 (11:52):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:52):
So it was more incredulity, yes, than anything.
Speaker 4 (11:56):
Right, no way this could be happening. And you're proud
of your baby.
Speaker 5 (12:00):
Right, we got right, you know, we did. We did
everything the right way. You know, we felt we.
Speaker 4 (12:07):
We we we We.
Speaker 5 (12:09):
Didn't have a child until after we were married. You know,
all these things that you say that you should do
in life, you know, doing things the right way.
Speaker 4 (12:19):
Two. To be told that you have a child with.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
Down syndrome, with this disability, you know that you're gonna
have to raise being so young and me, I'm thinking, hey,
I'm gonna be able to have a child, gonna grow up,
to be able to run around with them and do
all of these fun things with them, and now you
hit with this hammer that says, hey, there's you're gonna
have to make some adjustments to that, you know, and
you're thinking, and you know. Of course, once we got her,
(12:43):
once she came, we realized it wasn't much different. There
was a little bit more work involved, but it wasn't
much different as far as like a child as a child,
you know.
Speaker 4 (12:51):
Uh, you know.
Speaker 5 (12:51):
So once we got to that point in understanding that hey,
this this was more of a task given to us
from God more so then it was, you know, detriment
to our lives, I think we were able to embrace
it and get to the point where, okay, there are
some things that she need and some things that we
need to do in order to get her to where
(13:13):
she needs to be, you know, in her life.
Speaker 4 (13:16):
You know. So it became more of a task that
we took on that we felt like God had given us.
Speaker 3 (13:30):
And now a few messages from our general sponsors. But first,
I hope you'll consider signing up to join the army
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(14:08):
is fifty four in a.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
Week and about a week.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Yeah, and she has two siblings, a sister that is
fourteen years younger and a brother that is ten or
nine years younger. And Ben, my brother in law, is
special needs. And I met Lisa when Ben was seven
(14:41):
or eight, so that's now he's in his forties, so
I've grown up with Ben.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
Two.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
I was your age when you had your child when
I met Lisa. So and I will just say this,
I absolutely believe parents of special needs kids the Lord
gives those kids to very special people, because I've watched
(15:14):
Gary and Peggy love and work and toe the line
more than most parents of her dream of towing the
line and fight for their child. And at any rate,
I just want to tell you you can. You can
(15:36):
see the love you talk about your child with in
your eyes and hearing your voices, and I know the
work because I've been there. And but in the same respect,
you don't want to be treated or thought of any
differently your parents that you love, and you want your
everybody understanding your daughter has a soul and as a
human being and has all of the things inside of
(15:59):
her that makes every other person.
Speaker 4 (16:00):
Tek so exactly, I get it.
Speaker 5 (16:03):
And that's one of the things that we realized very
quickly that we had to fight for, you know, very
quickly realized we had to fight for that, because yeah,
that's a whole that we can we can talk another
two hours about that, but yeah, but one of the
reasons why she became a stay at home mom was
because that task, you know, had become so daunting, trying
(16:28):
to work and fight for your child at the same time.
It just wasn't working, you know, because you got people
that wanted to put your child in a box and
tell you what your child couldn't do or what your
child wouldn't be able to do, And so we had
to be on the front line, you know.
Speaker 4 (16:43):
And and compliments to her. She was on the.
Speaker 5 (16:46):
Front line, and she fought for our daughter to get
everything that she needed in order for her to be
educated the way any typical.
Speaker 4 (16:55):
Child in this world would be educated.
Speaker 5 (16:58):
Of course, it took a little bit more work on
our part, and it took more work, you know, on
the parts of the teachers, which is probably the reason
why there was a pushback, you know, not wanting to
dig deep into working harder and educating a child with
Down syndrome.
Speaker 4 (17:14):
A child, any child with special needs.
Speaker 5 (17:16):
But I thank God for my wife being and thank
God for us being able, you know, in a time
where it wasn't easy to live off of one income,
you know, but God being provided that he is allowed
my wife to be able to take off of work
for what a good twelve thirteen years, you know, to
(17:37):
be on the front line, you know, to fight for
our child with Down syndrome. So that was a blessing altogether.
And this is not even what story is about now.
It's just setting up who y'all are, because your.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
Thing is not called black folks with down child.
Speaker 4 (17:57):
It's called foster wild black family.
Speaker 6 (18:01):
So there you are, parents fighting, living at home, living
the dream, and then you want to have another child
and you're told you can't.
Speaker 4 (18:15):
Yeah, how old were you when that news broke?
Speaker 2 (18:19):
Oh gosh, we were still young.
Speaker 5 (18:22):
I think we we decided for a while, because of
our child with Down syndrome, that we were going to
hold off on trying to conceive again. Uh So it
was probably about ten years after we wanted to make
sure that she was, you know, good and established to
the point where we could hand.
Speaker 4 (18:44):
Makes sense.
Speaker 5 (18:45):
So now you're about thirty, right exactly, what about thirty
and well within child bearing age, and you said, let's
have a kid, let's have another child, let's try to
have a boy.
Speaker 3 (18:54):
Yeah uhh yeah, yeah, that just kind of the Lord
was that out there. He wants to but anyway, and
then you're told you can't. Yes, how that hits you?
Speaker 2 (19:08):
It was? It was very hard for a while. It
was hard, but we.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Knew, we knew that there was a need in our community.
We knew that even if we couldn't, it wasn't our
plan B. Adoption of Falster Care wasn't our plan B.
It was our Also, we're going to do this anyway,
you know really yeah.
Speaker 4 (19:24):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, We're going to.
Speaker 2 (19:26):
Do this anyway.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
So it's just split up the process. You know, we
can't do this, so we're going to go ahead and
take care of what needs to be taken care of,
fill out all the paperwork and uh and move forward.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
So that's what we did.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
We Taylor graduated high school and I want to say
not even six months.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
After that, no, because David was already in the home.
She graduated. Ye, so the timing line right up, line
right up. It was perfect.
Speaker 3 (19:50):
So tell me about as a foster parent. The first placement.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
That was David, our first placement. Filled out the paperwork.
Speaker 4 (19:59):
Like I said, we.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Put down the age group.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
We wanted an infant up to or an infant up
to the age of six, no child than six cent
just wanted to be able to have it in that
age group. Working still kind of mold and you know,
shape a child. So I got a call for a
little boy and case that.
Speaker 6 (20:19):
Actually, when you're filling out the paperwork, they asked if
you had a preference about race.
Speaker 2 (20:25):
Did not check any box, just wanted a child.
Speaker 4 (20:27):
Did you accidentally leave that all or you didn't care.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
I didn't mark the box because I didn't care. We
didn't care, didn't care at all.
Speaker 4 (20:34):
That was never an issue with us. Did it dawn
on you?
Speaker 3 (20:39):
And that's when you're filling out a bunch of paperwork
and going to classes. I don't know, I've not done it,
but I'm putting myself in your shoes. You're filling out
the paperwork, you're going through this classes, you're having probably
really serious talks about I mean, you roll on the
dice a little bit on what type of human being
might show up in your life. So you got to
(21:00):
be having real conversations pillar talks, probably pretty serious on this.
Speaker 2 (21:06):
We had talks. I don't think we had one talk
about race.
Speaker 4 (21:08):
I don't think. I don't think. I'm not talking about race.
I'm talking about just.
Speaker 2 (21:12):
Foster care and adoption in general.
Speaker 4 (21:14):
Yes, So when that box comes up, did you pay it?
Speaker 3 (21:18):
No?
Speaker 4 (21:18):
Nevermind? Or did you even think about it?
Speaker 5 (21:21):
No?
Speaker 2 (21:21):
Never mind?
Speaker 4 (21:22):
It was it was nothing to think about.
Speaker 5 (21:25):
I mean, it was a I mean, it was a
child that was in need, you know, it was.
Speaker 3 (21:28):
So this is the question I was thinking about on
the road over here. Was there a little bit of
naivete there?
Speaker 2 (21:37):
No?
Speaker 1 (21:38):
I worked in child care for before this or what
ten plus years. My classrooms were diverse. I've taken care
of everybody's child, you know, taken care of the little
Muslim child, taking care of the little black child, taking
care of the little Asian child.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
So this was.
Speaker 1 (21:53):
Just my motherly instinct. There was no box. It was
a child that needed a home, that needed a safe place.
Speaker 3 (22:01):
Yeah, that was just it. That was just it says
a lot about you. Okay, So didn't you get a call.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
We get a call and it's for a little six
month old, eight month old baby boy and uh the
case named David. Caseworker described him as a little blue eyed,
brunette baby boy. I said, okay, give me a minute,
let me call my husband and see if we're ready,
and he said, okay. They brought him to the house
and it was the cutest little chunky.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
Well, when you heard blue eyed, brown haired baby boy,
you knew that was a white kid.
Speaker 2 (22:34):
Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
I just didn't know that they were in the system
because I didn't know that there were little white kids
in the system, not as many.
Speaker 2 (22:43):
You know, the pickings, I didn't I had to say pickings.
Speaker 1 (22:46):
But for the most part, we thought that they were
mostly African American children in the system or Latino children
in the system, because that's what it has been portrayed,
have been shown shown to us. But I was glad,
you know, there's more white kids in the systems of color.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
I know, I know, I know the stats.
Speaker 3 (23:05):
Now it's it's one of them. I mean, hell, we're
talking about so I'm just gonna as a white person.
It's one of the things that bothers me that people
don't understand there are more white kids in the system
than there are kids of color, exactly, And it's it
(23:26):
would be obvious because there's more white people in the
country than there are people of color, why wouldn't there
be more kids the Unfortunately, the African American community as
a percentage has more kids on the foster care system,
but as a total number, there are more white kids.
Speaker 4 (23:41):
In the false system than there are.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
And I looked it up the ministers right now.
Speaker 4 (23:45):
Yeah, but it is.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
But you're right, it's something we don't even think about
and make these societal preconceived assumptions that are just inaccurate
because of the narratives we're fed.
Speaker 4 (23:58):
Right, m We'll be right back.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
So David with his blue eyes and brown hair and
what'd you say, chunky.
Speaker 2 (24:23):
Cheeks, the chunkiest cheeks you could see.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
Yeah, the cutest little kid ever, a sweetest boy came
into her home. And I have a picture on my
Instagram page and my husband's looking at him like Wow,
he's in total shock. But it's not so much as race.
He's in shock that someone would let this beautiful baby
boy come into the system. You know, how could you
let him down?
Speaker 4 (24:44):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (24:45):
Yeah, I think I think for me, you know, when
she called and and told me, she said, uh, she said,
he's he has brown hair. He's a little boy has
brown hair. Believe I believe the statement she made. But
he's white, you know, And uh, I said, Okay, you know,
it was no big deal.
Speaker 4 (25:03):
You know, I get.
Speaker 5 (25:04):
I don't know if she thought it was going to
be some pushback because of that from me, but you know,
like I said, it was, it was no big deal,
you know, dealing with the fact that he was white.
Speaker 4 (25:14):
You know, he was a child that needed.
Speaker 5 (25:16):
A home, that needed a home like the home that
I had that I grew up in, you know. And
that's one of the things that that motivated me to
be open about, you know, adopting, you know, is that, hey,
I want to be able to provide a home for
a child that has both parents in it, you know.
And I know that a home like that, not that
(25:36):
a child with a single parent can't have a strong home,
but I do know from my experience that a home
that has two parents in it, that has a mother
and a father that's handling their business the way they should,
that that child has a better opportunity to be successful
in life than you know, to a.
Speaker 3 (25:55):
God who grew up my mom almost mavering divorced five times.
You're talking to a guy whose dad left me his
four and I realize I beat the numbers. Yeah, and
that's just people may cringe, or you know, our twenty
twenty five Saudi may want to say that one parent's
(26:16):
just as good as two. Well, that's horse crap. It's
just not true. It's just fasted when they're not that
people can't come out of that. Fine, you did, oh yeah,
but I did. I mean, my wife would argue I
kind of did, but I did. Okay, But the point
is you're right, and so that's what you want to provide.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
So here's David.
Speaker 3 (26:36):
Yes, brown haired, blue eyes, chunky cheeks. But at this
point you're fostering foster.
Speaker 4 (26:45):
David was the intent to adopt.
Speaker 1 (26:48):
The goals were set for the bio parents and the
biological parents to possibly regain if there were to work
the case, the goals set by the judge, and he
will go back. However that wasn't the case.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
Let let's for all our listeners who don't really understand
the foster thing, and really I didn't until we've interviewed
a few folks and then of course Peter. But the
idea of have foster care is for you to care
and love for this child while the biological family gets
their life together in order to rejoin that.
Speaker 2 (27:21):
Child the chaological family always.
Speaker 3 (27:24):
But in the event their family doesn't get together or
wants to give up their rights, then you have an
option to adopt. That's how our system sounds good on paper.
Seems to be a little broken, but that's but that's
that's what y'all were in for. Yeah, how in the
world you care for and love on a child and
(27:46):
create these connections with this child knowing you may have
to give that child back up.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
That has to be hard.
Speaker 1 (27:54):
It's hard, however, you know that it's what's best. You
know you always want to go reunification if the parents
have made a turnaround, you know you want, you know, reunification,
and why not.
Speaker 2 (28:06):
If you built reunification that's and why not.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
If you've built a relationship with that biological parents, with
that family, you can also still become a part.
Speaker 4 (28:14):
Of you build a relationship with the biological family toast.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Yes, we still have a connection.
Speaker 1 (28:18):
We still have a connection with birth with all of
our so you know, yes, yes, yes, and it's just
an extension of family. And what's how many you know,
what's wrong with the child having a lot.
Speaker 2 (28:28):
Of people to love them.
Speaker 4 (28:30):
But in David's case, that wasn't in the cards.
Speaker 1 (28:34):
It was it was it wasn't the cards. We always
Tennessee has close adoptions. However, we extended that invitation. We
wanted him to know his family. We wanted him to
as long as you're in a good place, it's fine.
Communication is open, and we wanted that for our boys.
I mean, how long can we hide the fact that
we're not your biological parents, you know, I mean up
until he learns his colors?
Speaker 5 (28:56):
Right?
Speaker 3 (28:56):
I don't know, cassh Is, how long do you think
they could hide that?
Speaker 2 (29:02):
So why not?
Speaker 4 (29:04):
Yeah? So tell me about the journey with David. Well,
I want I want to say this first, okay, h
when you approach.
Speaker 5 (29:17):
Adoption foster as we should as a ministry, because Bible
said true religion is that you take care of the
orphans and the widows, you know, and so when when
you approach it like so, I just think it makes
(29:38):
it a lot easier, you know, to deal with the
things that come along with it because you understand what
your role is, what your purpose is in this situation.
Speaker 4 (29:47):
Not a nice thing to do, it's a requirement of
our faiths.
Speaker 5 (29:49):
Exactly exactly and so and so to think sometimes God
give us task that may not be easy, but it's
our task, it's our purpose. Me as a pastor is
not easy to pastor, you know, but it's the purpose
that God has given me. And so I have to
accept it and I have to embrace it and whatever
comes along with it.
Speaker 4 (30:07):
I have to be willing to accept that, you know.
Speaker 5 (30:10):
And so for that, you know, when you say was
it hard, you know, knowing that you there's a possibility
you may just have this child, you know, for a
period of time and you have to you know, separate
yourselves from them or whatnot. Yeah, that's always on the
human side, but the spiritual side or the ministry side
of it, we have to understand that, hey, we're in
(30:31):
this child's life for a reason, and that may be
for season. We have to make sure that we give
that child everything that they possibly wouldn't get, you know,
before they exit this home. And one of the greatest
things that you can give any child is a relationship.
You can help them to a relationship with Christ, you know.
And so I even at eight months old, introducing that
(30:52):
child to things like church, seeing people together in Bible study, community,
a community, you know that it loves them regardless of
their color, that race, you know, whether what their background is.
I think that is more important, you know, than anything
that we could have ever done, you know, for any
of our children, you know, whether they wind up staying
(31:14):
with us or whether they were to go and be
with their bios because guess what if they leave us
with the knowledge of the Lord. And I hate for
this to go into well, I don't hate for it
to go into and diminisure because that's what I am.
That's who I am, and so I approach it like
so if they were to leave our home, then maybe
they'll be the ones to help their family members who
maybe maybe they don't have.
Speaker 4 (31:35):
The relationship with God as they should.
Speaker 5 (31:38):
They could take that to their bio families, you know,
and help save their bio families. So that's always the approach.
Ministry is always the approach for us, you know, when
it comes to anything that we try to do, you know, So.
Speaker 3 (31:52):
That is selfless, that is beautiful. It still has to
be ringing in the back of your very human, failed
mind and heart tough. You can't tell me it's not
a little tough thinking you may lose this being that
you love.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
I will tell you that I would going to court
with anxiety, would heart path the human side of me. Yes,
we knew that there was a chance that he could
go back. I waited in the cheers and the cold
heart seats in the courtroom, waiting and looking around my
shoulder to see who was going to show up for
(32:32):
this kid. Were his parents going to actually come to
court for him that day? Was this the day that
he may not come back with us? Those are real feelings,
But we knew that if he were to go back
home to his parents, We've given him us. We've given
him a foundation, we've given him Christ, We've given him
love and stability. And we knew and we hoped that
(32:54):
whatever judge or whoever was in a position to change
that would see what was best for David, what was
best for each one of our kids. So we hung
on to hope in those moments, is what we did.
Speaker 2 (33:05):
And it turned out that in his case, that he
was to come home to us, he was, he was
able to be adopted.
Speaker 4 (33:13):
How old was he when he became your son?
Speaker 1 (33:16):
He'd been with us since he was eight months. He
was two and a half. It was a long journey.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
Okay, So let's get into some of what Peter talked
about that I think is really germane to the story
before we go to child number two, because y'all.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Crazy, And that's what a lot of people say.
Speaker 3 (33:37):
Because y'all are nuts, not your minds. I want to
be delicate, but I want to be real. So I'm
not the most delicate human being as a lumberman and
a football coach and got kind of crashed into stuff,
So I will try real hard.
Speaker 4 (33:53):
Go ahead.
Speaker 3 (33:57):
In the South, Well, there was a movie about it
called The Help.
Speaker 4 (34:04):
Y'all ever seen that movie?
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Yes, it was based in Jacksonissippi, actually written and directed
by a guy I went on this with I believe
it or not. And the movie did really well. And
it was, for lack of better terms, an expiration of
the fifties, sixties and seventies in Jackson, Mississippi, of white,
(34:29):
wealthy families having black domestics in the house. And what
I thought was so poignant about The Help is it
dove into how the black domestics ended up almost raising
(34:51):
the white children from infancy into adolescence because as many
of the white parents were out doing their social things,
that domestics would cook and clean but also care for
the children. Yes, and for those outside of the South
they think that that is a fictitious, overblown thing.
Speaker 4 (35:14):
I have news for you.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
In the South, that is his had been a reality
for many, many, many decades. So I think that's up
a little bit of a story because it wasn't just Jacksonsissippi.
Jackson may have been the setting for that particular show,
but you can go Jackson, Montgomery, Mobile, Memphis, New Orleans, Birmingham,
(35:37):
Little Rock, Atlanta, and just keep on going to the South.
That's just the reality. Some would say that mentality is
a little bit of a holdover, trying to be delicate,
but back during slavery, there were black folks that were
called house slaves that would do the same thing that
(36:01):
were picked among the slaves as maybe the cleaner or
more agreeable slaves, and then they would do the domestic
work in the house, and then they were also very involved.
Speaker 4 (36:16):
With the children.
Speaker 3 (36:18):
And then after slavery and chaircropping and all of that,
it just became a occupation.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
By a lot of black folks. Did I do that?
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Well, I think you did it as do you want.
Speaker 4 (36:34):
To add to that before we go forward.
Speaker 1 (36:36):
I'll put it this way. I'm not lost on our history.
I'm not lost all.
Speaker 4 (36:40):
I'm sure you're not.
Speaker 3 (36:41):
But you've got to remember people in Indiana and Michigan
and Kansas are listening to us that think those movies
are overblown, fictitional representations. And I'm just trying to bring
everybody up to where you and I as others are
by no means and trying to suggest these things.
Speaker 2 (37:02):
No, I've been called.
Speaker 4 (37:06):
The do go there yet? Okay, don't go there yet.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
I'm trying to set the stage and I'm just asking
you're fine in your viewpoint, its accurate from a black perspective.
I want to hear if I'm crazy about what I'm saying.
Speaker 1 (37:21):
Well, this is the reality of what went on during
those times. This is how my grandmother was a house
domesticated worker, a maid. Yes, because of her skin color.
You know, she was light enough to go in the
house and to fold the sheets into uh layer, skin
(37:41):
light and like complexion.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
The South, Yeah, light skinned, Yes, she was.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Light scanned enough to work in the kitchen in the house.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
Quote agreeable, yes, yes, so.
Speaker 1 (37:52):
I understand it all and I hope that you're yours
your listeners, well yeah as well.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
Yeah, it's almost uncomf we'll to talk about, but it's real.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Oh, it's the truth.
Speaker 5 (38:02):
It's the cold hard facts. It is about the South
and you know what some of our ancestors had to
deal with.
Speaker 3 (38:15):
And that concludes part one of our conversation with Meek
and Tracy Taylor, and you do not want to miss
part two. It's now available to listen to. Together. Guys, we
can change this country, but it starts with you. I'll
see in part two
Host
Bill Courtney
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