January 28, 2025 • 40 mins
As a 6 year old, Nate saw his parents die right before his eyes. He was living out of his car and then in prison, until his English teacher Stan Deen decided to try to save his life. This extraordinary story is the subject of Angel Studios’ latest film Brave the Dark, which is in theaters now.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
And so thankfully Stan comes and visits again and says,
you need.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
To get back in school, mister Dean. Mister Dean, Yeah,
he comes, which is crazy. Now he tracks you down
at the grandparents' house.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Because you're not back in school, correct, And he's thinking,
I got the kid out of jail, why isn't he
back in school? So now he searches you out a
second time, and a second time. This man searches for.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
You, correct, and didn't need to see.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
There's this overriding subtext theme to me about somebody who
loves you unconditionally always searches for you. Yes, welcome to
(00:58):
an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Cortney. I'm a
normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father, I'm an entrepreneur,
and I've been a football coach in inner City Memphis.
And the last part somehow led to an oscar for
the film about our team. It's called Undefeated. Y'all. I
believe our country's problems will never be solved by a
(01:20):
bunch of fancy people and nice suits using big words
that nobody ever uses on CNN and Fox, but rather
by an army of normal folks. Guys. That's you and me.
That's us just deciding, you know what, maybe I can help.
That's what Stan Dean did in the life of his
(01:41):
adopted son Nate, whose voice you just heard, and in
the lives of countless others. The story is so compelling.
It's the subject of Angel Studio's latest film, Brave the Dark,
which is in theaters now, and I cannot recommend it enough.
You've got to go see it. I can't wait for
(02:02):
you to meet Stan through his son Nate. Right after
these brief messages from our general sponsors, Nate Dean and
(02:29):
Derek Deaner, Welcome to Memphis. Glad to be here. Yeah,
so excited to be here. You got here last night? Yeah, yeah,
it's very late. You know, probably good that you got
last night. I don't know when you're leaving. But there's weather.
I'm time stamping, Alex, but there's weather. They just shut
down the Houston Airport. Oh wow, tomorrow morning. Action doesn't
(02:51):
come through there. Oh it's tomorrow morning.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yeah, tomorrow morning to Philly.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
So where do you guys?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Hail from Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Where's LINKA about.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
An hour east of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Yeah, no, I know Harrisburg, or an hour.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
And a half west of Philadelphia.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
In the middle there.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Yeah, in the middle of the central Pennsylvania.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Kind of Allegheny Forest comes kind of near there, doesn't it. Yeah, yep, yeah,
south of that talking to a guy who owns the
lumber business. That's right. Nate Dean and Derek Deaner. Dean
and Deaner. That's uh, I mean, do you ever get
the dumb and dumber thing? So everybody. Nate Dean is
(03:40):
the writer and executive producer of Brave the Dark. It's
another of Angel Studios films, and Derek Deaner is the
producer of Brave of the Dark. We have done in
probably two years, four episodes highlighting movies. We had Micro
(04:02):
about Something to stand For, and then and then we
had Paul Young with the Shock, and then we had
a Sign of Hope from Angel Studios, which, to remind everybody,
is about the church in Possum Trot, Texas who eradicated
their county's need for foster care because their church adopted
(04:25):
every available adopted kid on earth. And then we had
of course, folks will remember Todd comber Nikki from Bonhoffer
another Angel Studios and now I guess you're number five.
You guys, Nate and Derek with Brave the Dark also
and Angel Studios released I think their most recent film.
(04:48):
As usual, we're not having interviewed just a promo a film.
It's the story inside the film that's awesome and we
to let everybody know this listening. Nate, you were not
only the writer and executive producer, but you're the subject
of the film.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yeah, this is Brave the Dark is my story, true
life story.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
And how did you and Derek hook up?
Speaker 1 (05:15):
So about four years ago, we were kind of a
need to finish financing. We were struggling financially and.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
On the on the movie, on the movie, yes, on
the movie end. Every movie struggles financially in the world.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
And and are you know some of the early producers
were in New Zealand and with COVID and stuff, they
couldn't get over to kind of help finish this thing out.
And so Derek came on board thankfully, and we were
able to raise the fund very very quickly and move
it forward.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Well, you got a pocket full of money.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Therek No, I was able to. I mean before I
came on board, they had the director Damien Harris. Jared
Harris was connected to it. Nicholas Hamilton. The story was
was so there, but they needed the financial side of it.
And I have a lot of I'm an entrepreneur, so
I have a lot of business mentors and people in
the community that know me but also knew Nate and
(06:06):
new stand story. And I was able to connect the
dots and bring forty seven investors to come behind us
to make this film happen. So everything from thirty five
thousand to a million dollar investment community came together.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
And that is the edition of what a producer does. Yeah,
your title the producer of Brave the Dark shows up. Yeah,
you're a Nate. We're going to get into your story.
I at four point thirty this morning watched an early
screen of the movie, and after having read part of
your story and then seen it cinematically, it is absolutely
(06:42):
a story that needs to be told and I want
to celebrate that story. But first I want to ask
you something. Okay, the first time you saw it, well,
let me just tell you now. I know that the
movie Undefeated was a documentary about my life, but it
was done more in a narrative sense than in like
(07:05):
your typical narrated documentary right, and the first time I
ever saw it was one of the most surreal experiences
in the world to see my to see my story,
and then also to know that I was about to
share my soul with a bunch of people that don't
(07:26):
know me. I'm just curious the first time you saw
your story actually edited, with music done, ready to go,
and you popped down and actually watched your own story.
But as an audience member, what was that like for you?
It was surreal? To be honest, I mean to come
(07:48):
up with another one.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
I know I used your word, but it was it was.
You know, It's happened so long ago to me, and
I've healed from a lot of the pain of it.
Watching it, I could actually watch it from a filmmaker's perspective,
that it was a character in a movie. But then
it became so real again for me. And I remember
(08:09):
sitting with the director and he was so worried how
I would react to the film.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Bet as were the directors of Undefeated with me, like
they hadn't even thought about that, but they were watching
me watch the film. Yes, you know what I mean.
They were looking to see my reaction to what they produced.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah, that's what Damien Harris, who directed this, who directed
Brave the Dark, he was kind of watching me, and
when the movie was over and the lights came up,
I just looked back at him and I just said,
you got the story. You nailed it, Like this is
exactly the story we need to tell.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
And he actually is not some embellish, sensationialized version of
the truth. No, No, it's important. I hope everybody listening
to us goes out watches the movie, and there is
so much that is sensationialized. And in all the today's
you know, all these non scripted reality quote shows which
(09:07):
are completely scripted and not really reality. I think when
we watch something that's that's opening screen, opening decks as
based on a true story, when we actually know it
represents the true truth, I think we connect to it more.
And and you're telling me that's what the viewer is
(09:28):
going to watch is the truth.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yes, they're going to watch the truth on screen. One
of the cool things with going through the script with
the director and even with Jared Harris who plays Stan.
Early reading through, they would ask me, so, you know
what part of this is embellished or you know what
parts are we able to touch and move? And I said, no,
these this happened like there's a Christmas scene in the movie,
(09:53):
and it is so unbelievably close to what actually happened,
and the way Jared captured it is remarkable, unbeliev Listen,
in a two hour film, not everything can be exactly
as it is, because you can't tell a story this
big in two hours. I mean, it could have been
a series, you know, just timelines, you know, you know
(10:14):
there was a couple of girlfriends. It wasn't just one,
you know, just because it's too hard to share all
of the different elements with you know, you're trying to
introduce too many characters because the film is basically about
what a teacher did for me at a time.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
And need right, you know, so our listeners when I
watch this thing can go, ah, this is a real story.
That's a real story. Yes, And since you wrote the screenplay,
you would know, yes, that's it. So we're an army
in normal folks, right, we don't dive off into a
(10:49):
lot of political stuff. We don't dive off into a
lot of entertainment stuff. The movies and the people, the
directors and the subjects and The actors that we've talked
to and directors that we've talked to around movies like
this have not been for the sake of the movie.
I know that a great sideline to this is that
(11:11):
we're exposing these pieces of work to a large audience,
and that probably sells some tickets, and I'm great with
that because the primary reason we focus on the stories
that we focus on that happen to be movies is
because we're an army of normal folks, and somewhere embedded
in each of these stories is a heroic, normal person
(11:32):
who did some extraordinary and that is the story as
told through the lens of your eyes, because you are
the recipient of that amazing piece of work, which is
what we're going to get into. But I got to
ask Derek first, when you first read the script, forget
anything else, your first reading, not notes, not just reading
(11:58):
the script, What did you think?
Speaker 4 (12:01):
I was completely moved and emotional. You know, everybody that's
read this script has said, oh my gosh, the script,
Oh my gosh, the story like it. It's not something
you know. I read a lot of scripts and you
don't always get caught up and you're like, oh, what
time is that I got to go and I have
to finish this. That you just get drawn into it.
(12:21):
And it also you know, being from the same town
that it takes place in. I went to Gardens Spot
High School, the same high school I knew stand well,
you know, not as good as me, but I knew
mister Dean pretty well too. It just brought so many
feelings and emotions. And but I also didn't know the
depth of what Nate went through until I read the script.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
I knew some.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Things you had told me some things, but I didn't
know the depth. So it was moving.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
You knew Nate prior, yes, and so as you're reading
a script about a friend of yours, yeah, and things
are being revealed to you that you had not known.
It had to have been kind of personal. Oh yeah,
it was. You know.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
The movie kind of peels back the young end slowly
and with flashbacks and different things starts to reveal. And
when you read, when you read the script, it just
visually you just are there. It's a really it's a
beautiful script. And so that's the foundation of any independent
film is a good story, which is then the script,
and that's how you get people to come alongside and help.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
You make it so the script draws it in. Yeah,
you can have the greatest actors in the world, you
can have the greatest director in the world, but if
you have a crap script, nobody's ever going to know that. Conversely,
you may have no director or no actor, but if
you have a killer script, it will attract the talent. Yeah,
and the money. That's what happened. And that's what happened.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
And the money came from the culmination of the script
that the talent that got attached to it.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
The community.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
You know, there was people adults like Nate that grew
up with Stan being an impact. Obviously not to the
level that he did for Nate, but there were a
lot of adults that are in businesses now, were entrepreneurs.
Are like, man, I want to tell the story with you.
I'm going to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars without
a distributor yet I just believe that this film will
(14:09):
find its way. And it went on a roller coaster
ride that lasted me eight thirteen years ago penned the
first draft with this writing partner, and four years ago
I came on board. In between that, you know, we
titled it the film, you know, like just like the
Little Engine that Could, the Little Film that Could. It's
always had positive momentum, moved in the right direction. But
(14:30):
it's not for the faint hearted either, you know.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
And now a few messages from our general sponsors. But
first we've launched a new written series called Normal Folks Wisdom.
I think Alex came up with that. Did you come
up with that? And an Army of normal dead Folks.
People have strong feelings on that one already, so we'll
see what they think about this. I don't know about
(14:57):
these titles, but anyway, we've got this thing called Normal
Folks Wisdom. Come on, you like it? I do like it,
Actually I like it better than Dead Folks. But whatever.
What Normal Folks Wisdom is is it's the heroic normal
folks we interview and when they share poignant, cutting, practical,
and oftentimes hilarious wisdom with us. So we want to
(15:20):
make it digestible for Army members, especially if you don't
get a chance to listen to every single episode with
shame on you, you should or all the way through, so
we think everybody can find it valuable. The best way
to start getting normal Folks wisdom is to follow us
on Instagram at Army of Normal Folks or by signing
(15:46):
up to join the army at normal Folks dot us,
as we're going to start emailing these things out as well.
There's some fancy folks with some wisdom, but normal folks
got a whole bunch of it and are often overlooked,
So I hope you'll check it out. We'll be right back.
(16:16):
Before we get into the story, I think our listeners
listen movies and actors. There's this mystique around it and
people find it fascinating and all of that. But before
we get to your stories, one other sideline that I
think is just interesting for our listeners, and you guys
can speak to it. But I didn't know anything about
(16:38):
this world until two thousand and nine, and then the
world changed for me. And I'm the producer on two
films in developed ones and development one's about to be
in production now, and so from a little bit, I'm
kind of on the periphial of the movie business. But
everybody listening here needs to know that the movie business
(17:02):
model is the most screwed up business model on the
base of the planet. You have three legs, you have development,
you have production, and then you have distribution, and at
any point and any time, you could have millions of
dollars invested, and if one of those legs falls apart,
you can throw the whole thing in the garbage. Big
(17:24):
production houses in Hollywood there are I'm going to guess,
and I'm going to try to not to exaggerate, it's
exponentially more. I would say there are twenty times the
number of films that anybody ever sees. There are twenty
times those number of fiels canned sitting on a shelf
somewhere that will never seen them light to day. One
(17:46):
big time producer told me that they will spend money
at the big houses developing thirty or forty films a
year to make to actually release industry four to eight
on a really good year, and of those four to eight,
two will be profitable, and basically two profitable Mary movies
(18:11):
carry the entire cost load for all thirty projects of
the year. And if they don't get one or two
to make money, they lose money. If they make one,
if one or two may make it, so it's it
is a massively risky business. Yes, it takes an enormous
amount of money to produce a movie, and all the
(18:32):
way along until it hits a theater you actually get
distribution from somebody, you still have no idea if you're
pouring all that money down a drain somewhere. Yes, what
was what was your experience with this film in terms
of the development, production up to distribution which is about
to happen in a couple of weeks. Yeah, do you
want me to? Okay?
Speaker 4 (18:52):
I mean explaining it like that so well invokes anxiety.
But no, but.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Especially since you're the one out there telling all these
people for your money, it's got to be greatause you're
going to get about how many investors? So that's forty
seven phone calls of what did you do with the money? Butthole,
that's what happens.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
No, it's what happens. I think very fortunate that this was.
There was so much positivity and belief and energy and
impact with this film. That's an impact film. And all
of our investors they knew what they were getting into.
They knew I wasn't promising returns. I wasn't doing anything
like that. They you know, they had met Nate, they
(19:36):
heard his story directly from him, and and we're like
you know, this is a if there's any film I
want to get behind, it's this film. And and it's
also like the biggest film to come out of Lancaster
since Witness. It's the only film to come out of
Lancaster that's based on a true hero, mister Dean and
and Nate's story and how that hunt of all came
to be. So, you know, we were very fortunate because
(19:57):
it's not like we were in la and one hundred
movies were and made and you had to pick one
to invest in, Like this was the film of the
century to come out of our of our town. People
wanted to be part of it. They wanted to be
kind of this momentum that was beginning. We had winded
our back even though it was insanely art. We ne't
have a distributor yet, we had a great agent at
the time. We had amazing talent. We had a great cinematographer.
(20:21):
Our director was great. I mean, we had a mating script, story,
all the things you need, all the pieces, but except
the cash. Except the cash. Yes, And then we slowly
had like a couple of people saying, Okay, I'll give
you five hundred thousand. I'll give you three hundred thousand,
and then and then it started to build and then
we you know, there's an underwater scene that was going
to get cut because that was done months later because
we didn't have money. And then the investors came in
(20:41):
and gave us more money. And then we needed more
post production. We needed some compote. We really wanted to
work with these composers, but we needed more funds. The
investors came kept giving me more money, kept giving us
more money, and they would come on set, you know,
and we have you know, you're burning whatever, one hundred
thousand a day. I don't know, you burn a lot
of money every day. They come out on set. They're
all entrepreneurs. They see like, I'm an entrepreneur as much
(21:03):
I'm an entrepreneur filmmaker, and they see the hustle that
everybody's doing to make this happen.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
How many dice worst production twenty six Yeah, that's so.
Most people also think people spend a year. Yeah, you can't.
Twenty six days. And that's hammering it.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
It's hammering, and we were very fortunate, Like so Jared Harris,
our lead actor, he's Damien Harris, the director's brother and
Jared's played in what he was in Chernobyl and mad
Men and the Crown, you know in I mean over
one hundred credits or you know in film and TV.
Really amazing actor Richard Harris's son, Damian Harrison, and Jamie
(21:44):
Harris their other brother, were all three in this. And
so we're fortunate because he came in a month early
to start rehearsing with Damien, and then Nicholas Hamilton, who
played Nate, came in a month early too. That never
happens independent film. They show up the day before you
start shooting and and they just they did that on
their own and they were like doing research. They you know,
(22:07):
Nate was introducing them to people who knew Stan, you know,
people who knew Nate as a kid. You know, just
so many people. They were doing so much research they met.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
It was a huge in character development.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
Yes, and we had a dialect coach because there's a
there's a show called Mayor of Eastown in our community.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
There.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
The dialect coach of that, Suzanne, She came early because
Jared's from the UK, so British accent. Nicks from the
Australia Australian accent, so she was working with them and
rehearsing with them, and they started building a camaraderie and
that is how it translates to the screen like so fortunate,
like a lot of times on these indies, like these
(22:45):
actors are coming. Like I said the day before, Hey,
how you doing. You read the script? I read the script.
Let's start that that's on low budgets. And then also
like you know, kind of combating on like okay, well
I need to be here for this scene, like this
is where I feel like I need to be not
and then you know, the cinematographer and the director's like,
(23:06):
well I would love for you to be here, like no, no, no,
I kind of really need to be here, you know.
And Jared and Nick were like, tell me a where
to go. I will act wherever I need to act,
Like let's make our days. We never missed our days.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Stuff's going on. You know you've got a shot.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Yeah, those little those little things give me the chills
that you said that, because like you know, it was
like oxygen, like all those little things that happened every
time Nate and I would get a set back, get
punched in the gut the next hour something crazy like that,
would happen like it was like.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Pest.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yeah, Jared came on set, like you said, like literally
a month before and listen to every audio, video clip, photograph.
He looked through everything. He interviewed people that new Stan
loves Stan, and so he was very much involved, you know,
and and that he loved the story so much, and
(24:01):
so did Nick. That's why I think it was so successful,
because they were willing to do the things.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
Okay, so everybody's got the background on the movie business.
Now specifically this, I don't want to spoil everything, but
I will say the movie opens with you in high school,
but there's a series of flashbacks and all kinds of
other content. Why you are where you are and how
(24:32):
you are in high school is revealed throughout the movie.
So there's that. But again, we really want to celebrate
not only you as a subject to the movie, but
the real hero of the movie. And to get to
the real hero of the movie, I think we need
to go back to you as a five year old
(24:55):
and kind of start there. Why don't you tell me
about your experience as a as a little boy.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Yeah, you know, sadly in this world, children are hurt
at very young ages. And I was physically emotionally in
all the ways that a young child can be hurt.
I felt at the age of five years old. I
remember it as if it was yesterday at times, and
childhood trauma affects the rest of your life. It still
(25:21):
affects me to this day in certain ways. I don't
let it hold me back. I pushed through most of it.
But yeah, I experienced some some major childhood trauma at
the age of five years old. And I don't know
how much we want to get into.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
I want to hear it.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
You want to hear it.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
I want to hear it. I've seen it, Okay, I've
read about it. I want our listeners when they're watching
the movie, I want your voice today to echo in
their minds. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
So, at the age of five, I was playing out
in the front yard of my house and my father
pulled in in his you know, loud car and was
very angry and I didn't realize or understand why. And yeah,
and he just kind of looked down at me and
yelled at me and was like, where's your mother? And
(26:11):
I'm not going to give this part away, but I
said something to him that I ended up blaming myself
for for most of my life. And he ran inside
yelling for her, and found my mother and dragged her
outside of the house by her hair, literally ripping the
hair out of her head at times in clumps. He
(26:35):
was pulling her that hard face down, humiliating her, yelling
at her, and she's screaming for help, and there's no
one there to help her. I couldn't do anything, And
for some reason, I didn't run and hide. I just
kind of was stunned and.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Just watched as he I think that's legitimately shocked.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah, it was shocked. But I'm a very visual person.
I've always been, and so those visions, you know, more
of that than the sounds. There's only a couple of
sounds that I remember as much as you know, just
screaming and whatnot. But to then see her being pushed
(27:13):
up against the car and being forced to look in
the rear view mirror, like in the the rear seat window,
and saying, do you see what I have for you?
And he had he had been target practicing with his
thirty odd six. He had determined that he was going
to do some very bad things that day, there was
no question, And somehow she managed to struggle free, and
(27:36):
she ran past me, and she's yelling for me to
stay with her, to to like run with her, and
I just couldn't. I just froze, a complete froze. And
then you know, I saw her run into the house,
and of course, as a mother, you know, she she
looked back, and she looked out the window to find me,
(27:56):
to see me and encourage me to run, and I didn't.
I just stood there frozen. And meanwhile, my father had
grabbed the gun out of the back seat, and he
walked towards the front door, and when she opened the
curtains to look back, he pulled the trigger. And that's
probably the sound that I remember the most, is the
loud sound of that gun, the explosion of that gun
(28:17):
going off, and just shaking, just like it just reverberated
through my soul. To see my mom fall and still screaming,
she managed to crawl into the living room, and for
some reason, I kind of came to I guess I
(28:39):
walked into the house, opened that door where the bullet
had gone through the window, and walked over to my
mother and I knelt down. And she didn't say I
loved you. She didn't say she was going to miss me.
She just said to run. She said run because she
(29:01):
didn't want something bad to happen to me. And so
I ran and hid behind the sofa where I had
always hit, because this wasn't the first time my dad
had showed violence to my mother. He had always beat
her and yelled at her and put her down and
(29:23):
choked her as I was always seemed to be there
in the background, hiding, and thankfully most of the times
he just pushed her down and left, but.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
This time he didn't. We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
So I just said, Mommy, don't go. And so then
I heard the front door open again, and I heard
my my dad's cowboy boots walking across the floor, and
so I listened to my mother. I ran and hid
behind that sofa, and I kind of heard the last
(30:14):
breaths of my mother, and then my dad walked in
and at the same time, we both saw her kind
of body twitch. It was kind of like that last
inhale and like I believe that she had passed, but
he wanted to make sure, and so he took that
gun and he pointed at her head and he shot again,
and I just remember holding my ears and my eyes
(30:38):
tightly closed. And I don't know how long that was.
Something that's not in the film. We just felt like
it was just too much for the audience. But when
my dad went back outside on the porch, I went
back to my mother and I createled her head in
my arms and I held on to her, and in
(31:00):
the distance you could hear the sirens. My neighbor had
called the police. But it could have been twenty minutes,
who knows. I don't even remember time wise. But I
kind of walked outside and I walked over to my
dad and he was sitting on the porch and he
was crying, and he still had the gun in his hand,
but he was crying, and all of a sudden, he
(31:21):
kind of noticed me there and he kind of shook
him for a moment, and he kind of almost instantly
stopped crying, and he stood up and he walked right
over to me, and he looked right down at me,
and he's and you know, you know, in the film,
you're like, oh my gosh, he's gonna do something to
this kid, But to me, I didn't know anything. I
just stood there, like questioning what's going on, and in
(31:44):
total shock. And he looked right down at me and
he said, I'm sorry, son, but if I can't have her,
no one's going to have her. And that's emphasized in
the film because they were separated and my mom had
moved on, but he did not. And then the hard
part where he tried to put the gun in his
(32:07):
mouth and pulled the trigger but he couldn't reach the trigger.
He turned around with his back to me, and I
I would say that he shoved that gun so far
into his throat that he could pull the trigger. And
I stood there as and again we kind of cut
some of this stuff. It's too much for the audience.
(32:28):
But his blood went all over me and he fell
to the ground beside me, and I just remember closing
my eyes for a very long time, afraid to open them,
afraid to even move. I don't even know how.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
Long I stood there.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
And in the movie, I just, you know, I just
sat there, But in reality, I actually went up the
stairs to my mom's bedroom and I just sat on
the bed. And something else that's not portrayed in the
movie I'd love to share is that when the police
did arrive, they didn't know what was going on. They
(33:06):
thought it was a double murder because they didn't understand
how a guy could take a gun like that and
do that. But again they figured that out. But one
of the police officers came upstairs and he led me
down the stairs and said we're we're gonna take you somewhere.
And I just remember walking down and they held blankets
up to cover my mom so that I wouldn't see
(33:28):
my mom, and they did that with my dad, and
then they handed me over to my neighbor lady who
I knew, and that's portrayed in the film where she
takes me over to her house, into her mud room
and she puts me in this little galvanized metal tub,
takes my shirt off, and begins to pour water over
(33:50):
me to remove all the blood. She started singing this
little light of mine that's really prevalent in the film. Yeah,
so that was the day. That was what I experienced.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
You're going to find out through our conversation that you're in.
My life has interesting intersections, one of which is my
mom's fourth husband took out a gun when I was
in high school, shot the house up, and I dove,
I don't want to save myself. My mom head in
the attic and he ran out of bullets and was
reloading when the cops showed up. My mom lived, so
(34:39):
I can't even begin to identify with watching. Plus I
was a teenager, I wasn't a five year old. But
I can tell you this bro the sounds, the looks
on faces. I remember the bullet that passed me in
(35:02):
the hallway when it hit the closet. The weirdest thing
I remember is the clothes hangers knocking because the bullet
went through it. And like, I don't even remember the
sound gun, but I remember the clothes hangers going. And
all I can say is for a five year old
(35:24):
to experience that, that's as traumatic and will spur as
much PTSD as anybody deserved any war, and it will
have a profound effect on the psyche of any human
being that's been through it, much less a five year old.
And what is needed at that point is an enormous
amount of love and patience for grieving and everything else
(35:50):
which you did not get. So next step is the
only people you've got is your grandmother and father at
this point. Yeah, so tell me about that part.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
Yeah, I kind of my grandparents didn't know what to
do and sadly people lied to me. People tried to
say that it was just an accident, that it never
really happened that I did.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
This was the seventies, right, yeah, seventy three. Yeah five,
you an aren't the same age you were born in
sixty eighth then yeah, me too. So was that shame
and they were trying to hide the quote real story
or were they trying to protect you or both?
Speaker 1 (36:36):
I think a little bit of both.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
I don't think no, you sat there and saw it,
you're five, But they were emory.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
They weren't there to see that I saw it. So
when I said I saw this happen, They're like, no,
you did not like they I think in some ways
they were trying to protect me or the gaslighting, you know.
I mean, I think a lot of times adults can lie,
especially to foster child, Oh you're not a dop like
like they don't say that you've been adopted, or like,
(37:03):
you know, you find out when you're sixteen that you
were adopted. Like that to me is like insane, Like
why would you not tell your kid that you are
fostering or adopting that they're adopted? Like why let them
find out on the internet anyway, that's a whole nother
story somebody.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Yeah, and they.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Find out from someone else and then.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
In your whole reality correct.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
And so I and I began questioning, like, what did
I see?
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Did I see this?
Speaker 1 (37:29):
You know, was it really true?
Speaker 3 (37:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (37:31):
But I knew, I knew there's no hiding or denying that.
But I had to hide it.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
Your grandparents couldn't handle you, And so their answer to
that was yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
So so I ended up shutting down. My body shut down.
As a five year old that stress that that hurt,
I shut down. I literally did not speak for the
next two years, and for the two months I think
that that I was with my grandmother and grandfather. They
tried desperately to get me to talk, but I just
would not say anything. I had nothing to say.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
For one, you need professional help.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Yeah, yes, I had severe trauma. Trauma, and back then
it was a different thing, like it wasn't like it
is today. You know today, Yeah, no one understood that.
And again the newspaper was like, there was a child there,
but he was upstairs. He didn't see anything. So that
made everyone in the new you know, everyone reading it, go, oh,
we at least that didn't but right right, he's okay.
But you know, we hide some of those truths sometimes.
(38:26):
And again I didn't tell people other than my so
no one really knew that I had seen it at
that time. But anyway, my grandmother felt that they were
too old to take care of a traumatic five year old,
you know, a kid full of trauma who wouldn't speak.
She didn't know how to handle me, and she thought
the best thing to do was to take me to
(38:47):
an orphanage and drop me off. And can I tell
you driving up that lane to that orphanage, sitting in
the back seat, looking at the review mirror and seeing
her crying and just bawling, and then not understanding what
was happening, and getting out and being walked up to
a lady that was going to take care of me,
like here you are take care of this kid for
(39:08):
us was pretty brutal, and I just remember it was
another moment where my grandmother just knelt down, hugged me,
said she was sorry, gets back into her car and
literally never looked back. She just drove away, and I
remember running after the car. He wasn't there that day.
He didn't go along to do that. It was just
(39:31):
my grandmother.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
Oh, man, I have lots of thoughts, but I don't
want to talk about your grandparents. Yeah, God, how do
you let a woman go through that alone?
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Yeah, there's a lot of dysfunction in my family over
the course of all this, you know, the father's side
blaming them, you know, the mother's side, and the mother's
side blaming the you know, all sorts of blame and.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
Getting up and getting locked up in the middle of
everybody else's dysfunction.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Yes, yes, and so hey, let's put him in a home.
Hopefully he'll get adopted by a wonderful family and he'll
live a happily happy life.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
And how did that work out? That didn't work out?
Speaker 1 (40:06):
That did not work out.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
And that concludes Part one of my conversation with Nate
Dean and Derek Deaner, And you don't want to miss
part two. It's now available to listen to together. Guys,
we can change this country, but it starts with you.
I'll see you in part two.
And so thankfully Stan comes and visits again and says,
you need.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
To get back in school, mister Dean. Mister Dean, Yeah,
he comes, which is crazy. Now he tracks you down
at the grandparents' house.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Because you're not back in school, correct, And he's thinking,
I got the kid out of jail, why isn't he
back in school? So now he searches you out a
second time, and a second time. This man searches for.
Speaker 1 (00:31):
You, correct, and didn't need to see.
Speaker 3 (00:33):
There's this overriding subtext theme to me about somebody who
loves you unconditionally always searches for you. Yes, welcome to
(00:58):
an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Cortney. I'm a
normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father, I'm an entrepreneur,
and I've been a football coach in inner City Memphis.
And the last part somehow led to an oscar for
the film about our team. It's called Undefeated. Y'all. I
believe our country's problems will never be solved by a
(01:20):
bunch of fancy people and nice suits using big words
that nobody ever uses on CNN and Fox, but rather
by an army of normal folks. Guys. That's you and me.
That's us just deciding, you know what, maybe I can help.
That's what Stan Dean did in the life of his
(01:41):
adopted son Nate, whose voice you just heard, and in
the lives of countless others. The story is so compelling.
It's the subject of Angel Studio's latest film, Brave the Dark,
which is in theaters now, and I cannot recommend it enough.
You've got to go see it. I can't wait for
(02:02):
you to meet Stan through his son Nate. Right after
these brief messages from our general sponsors, Nate Dean and
(02:29):
Derek Deaner, Welcome to Memphis. Glad to be here. Yeah,
so excited to be here. You got here last night? Yeah, yeah,
it's very late. You know, probably good that you got
last night. I don't know when you're leaving. But there's weather.
I'm time stamping, Alex, but there's weather. They just shut
down the Houston Airport. Oh wow, tomorrow morning. Action doesn't
(02:51):
come through there. Oh it's tomorrow morning.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Yeah, tomorrow morning to Philly.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
So where do you guys?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Hail from Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Where's LINKA about.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
An hour east of Harrisburg, Pennsylvania.
Speaker 3 (03:04):
Yeah, no, I know Harrisburg, or an hour.
Speaker 1 (03:06):
And a half west of Philadelphia.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
In the middle there.
Speaker 1 (03:10):
Yeah, in the middle of the central Pennsylvania.
Speaker 3 (03:12):
Kind of Allegheny Forest comes kind of near there, doesn't it. Yeah, yep, yeah,
south of that talking to a guy who owns the
lumber business. That's right. Nate Dean and Derek Deaner. Dean
and Deaner. That's uh, I mean, do you ever get
the dumb and dumber thing? So everybody. Nate Dean is
(03:40):
the writer and executive producer of Brave the Dark. It's
another of Angel Studios films, and Derek Deaner is the
producer of Brave of the Dark. We have done in
probably two years, four episodes highlighting movies. We had Micro
(04:02):
about Something to stand For, and then and then we
had Paul Young with the Shock, and then we had
a Sign of Hope from Angel Studios, which, to remind everybody,
is about the church in Possum Trot, Texas who eradicated
their county's need for foster care because their church adopted
(04:25):
every available adopted kid on earth. And then we had
of course, folks will remember Todd comber Nikki from Bonhoffer
another Angel Studios and now I guess you're number five.
You guys, Nate and Derek with Brave the Dark also
and Angel Studios released I think their most recent film.
(04:48):
As usual, we're not having interviewed just a promo a film.
It's the story inside the film that's awesome and we
to let everybody know this listening. Nate, you were not
only the writer and executive producer, but you're the subject
of the film.
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Yeah, this is Brave the Dark is my story, true
life story.
Speaker 3 (05:12):
And how did you and Derek hook up?
Speaker 1 (05:15):
So about four years ago, we were kind of a
need to finish financing. We were struggling financially and.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
On the on the movie, on the movie, yes, on
the movie end. Every movie struggles financially in the world.
Speaker 1 (05:30):
And and are you know some of the early producers
were in New Zealand and with COVID and stuff, they
couldn't get over to kind of help finish this thing out.
And so Derek came on board thankfully, and we were
able to raise the fund very very quickly and move
it forward.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
Well, you got a pocket full of money.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
Therek No, I was able to. I mean before I
came on board, they had the director Damien Harris. Jared
Harris was connected to it. Nicholas Hamilton. The story was
was so there, but they needed the financial side of it.
And I have a lot of I'm an entrepreneur, so
I have a lot of business mentors and people in
the community that know me but also knew Nate and
(06:06):
new stand story. And I was able to connect the
dots and bring forty seven investors to come behind us
to make this film happen. So everything from thirty five
thousand to a million dollar investment community came together.
Speaker 3 (06:18):
And that is the edition of what a producer does. Yeah,
your title the producer of Brave the Dark shows up. Yeah,
you're a Nate. We're going to get into your story.
I at four point thirty this morning watched an early
screen of the movie, and after having read part of
your story and then seen it cinematically, it is absolutely
(06:42):
a story that needs to be told and I want
to celebrate that story. But first I want to ask
you something. Okay, the first time you saw it, well,
let me just tell you now. I know that the
movie Undefeated was a documentary about my life, but it
was done more in a narrative sense than in like
(07:05):
your typical narrated documentary right, and the first time I
ever saw it was one of the most surreal experiences
in the world to see my to see my story,
and then also to know that I was about to
share my soul with a bunch of people that don't
(07:26):
know me. I'm just curious the first time you saw
your story actually edited, with music done, ready to go,
and you popped down and actually watched your own story.
But as an audience member, what was that like for you?
It was surreal? To be honest, I mean to come
(07:48):
up with another one.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
I know I used your word, but it was it was.
You know, It's happened so long ago to me, and
I've healed from a lot of the pain of it.
Watching it, I could actually watch it from a filmmaker's perspective,
that it was a character in a movie. But then
it became so real again for me. And I remember
(08:09):
sitting with the director and he was so worried how
I would react to the film.
Speaker 3 (08:14):
Bet as were the directors of Undefeated with me, like
they hadn't even thought about that, but they were watching
me watch the film. Yes, you know what I mean.
They were looking to see my reaction to what they produced.
Speaker 1 (08:29):
Yeah, that's what Damien Harris, who directed this, who directed
Brave the Dark, he was kind of watching me, and
when the movie was over and the lights came up,
I just looked back at him and I just said,
you got the story. You nailed it, Like this is
exactly the story we need to tell.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
And he actually is not some embellish, sensationialized version of
the truth. No, No, it's important. I hope everybody listening
to us goes out watches the movie, and there is
so much that is sensationialized. And in all the today's
you know, all these non scripted reality quote shows which
(09:07):
are completely scripted and not really reality. I think when
we watch something that's that's opening screen, opening decks as
based on a true story, when we actually know it
represents the true truth, I think we connect to it more.
And and you're telling me that's what the viewer is
(09:28):
going to watch is the truth.
Speaker 1 (09:29):
Yes, they're going to watch the truth on screen. One
of the cool things with going through the script with
the director and even with Jared Harris who plays Stan.
Early reading through, they would ask me, so, you know
what part of this is embellished or you know what
parts are we able to touch and move? And I said, no,
these this happened like there's a Christmas scene in the movie,
(09:53):
and it is so unbelievably close to what actually happened,
and the way Jared captured it is remarkable, unbeliev Listen,
in a two hour film, not everything can be exactly
as it is, because you can't tell a story this
big in two hours. I mean, it could have been
a series, you know, just timelines, you know, you know
(10:14):
there was a couple of girlfriends. It wasn't just one,
you know, just because it's too hard to share all
of the different elements with you know, you're trying to
introduce too many characters because the film is basically about
what a teacher did for me at a time.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
And need right, you know, so our listeners when I
watch this thing can go, ah, this is a real story.
That's a real story. Yes, And since you wrote the screenplay,
you would know, yes, that's it. So we're an army
in normal folks, right, we don't dive off into a
(10:49):
lot of political stuff. We don't dive off into a
lot of entertainment stuff. The movies and the people, the
directors and the subjects and The actors that we've talked
to and directors that we've talked to around movies like
this have not been for the sake of the movie.
I know that a great sideline to this is that
(11:11):
we're exposing these pieces of work to a large audience,
and that probably sells some tickets, and I'm great with
that because the primary reason we focus on the stories
that we focus on that happen to be movies is
because we're an army of normal folks, and somewhere embedded
in each of these stories is a heroic, normal person
(11:32):
who did some extraordinary and that is the story as
told through the lens of your eyes, because you are
the recipient of that amazing piece of work, which is
what we're going to get into. But I got to
ask Derek first, when you first read the script, forget
anything else, your first reading, not notes, not just reading
(11:58):
the script, What did you think?
Speaker 4 (12:01):
I was completely moved and emotional. You know, everybody that's
read this script has said, oh my gosh, the script,
Oh my gosh, the story like it. It's not something
you know. I read a lot of scripts and you
don't always get caught up and you're like, oh, what
time is that I got to go and I have
to finish this. That you just get drawn into it.
(12:21):
And it also you know, being from the same town
that it takes place in. I went to Gardens Spot
High School, the same high school I knew stand well,
you know, not as good as me, but I knew
mister Dean pretty well too. It just brought so many
feelings and emotions. And but I also didn't know the
depth of what Nate went through until I read the script.
Speaker 1 (12:40):
I knew some.
Speaker 4 (12:40):
Things you had told me some things, but I didn't
know the depth. So it was moving.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
You knew Nate prior, yes, and so as you're reading
a script about a friend of yours, yeah, and things
are being revealed to you that you had not known.
It had to have been kind of personal. Oh yeah,
it was. You know.
Speaker 4 (13:01):
The movie kind of peels back the young end slowly
and with flashbacks and different things starts to reveal. And
when you read, when you read the script, it just
visually you just are there. It's a really it's a
beautiful script. And so that's the foundation of any independent
film is a good story, which is then the script,
and that's how you get people to come alongside and help.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
You make it so the script draws it in. Yeah,
you can have the greatest actors in the world, you
can have the greatest director in the world, but if
you have a crap script, nobody's ever going to know that. Conversely,
you may have no director or no actor, but if
you have a killer script, it will attract the talent. Yeah,
and the money. That's what happened. And that's what happened.
Speaker 4 (13:41):
And the money came from the culmination of the script
that the talent that got attached to it.
Speaker 3 (13:47):
The community.
Speaker 4 (13:48):
You know, there was people adults like Nate that grew
up with Stan being an impact. Obviously not to the
level that he did for Nate, but there were a
lot of adults that are in businesses now, were entrepreneurs.
Are like, man, I want to tell the story with you.
I'm going to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars without
a distributor yet I just believe that this film will
(14:09):
find its way. And it went on a roller coaster
ride that lasted me eight thirteen years ago penned the
first draft with this writing partner, and four years ago
I came on board. In between that, you know, we
titled it the film, you know, like just like the
Little Engine that Could, the Little Film that Could. It's
always had positive momentum, moved in the right direction. But
(14:30):
it's not for the faint hearted either, you know.
Speaker 3 (14:36):
And now a few messages from our general sponsors. But
first we've launched a new written series called Normal Folks Wisdom.
I think Alex came up with that. Did you come
up with that? And an Army of normal dead Folks.
People have strong feelings on that one already, so we'll
see what they think about this. I don't know about
(14:57):
these titles, but anyway, we've got this thing called Normal
Folks Wisdom. Come on, you like it? I do like it,
Actually I like it better than Dead Folks. But whatever.
What Normal Folks Wisdom is is it's the heroic normal
folks we interview and when they share poignant, cutting, practical,
and oftentimes hilarious wisdom with us. So we want to
(15:20):
make it digestible for Army members, especially if you don't
get a chance to listen to every single episode with
shame on you, you should or all the way through, so
we think everybody can find it valuable. The best way
to start getting normal Folks wisdom is to follow us
on Instagram at Army of Normal Folks or by signing
(15:46):
up to join the army at normal Folks dot us,
as we're going to start emailing these things out as well.
There's some fancy folks with some wisdom, but normal folks
got a whole bunch of it and are often overlooked,
So I hope you'll check it out. We'll be right back.
(16:16):
Before we get into the story, I think our listeners
listen movies and actors. There's this mystique around it and
people find it fascinating and all of that. But before
we get to your stories, one other sideline that I
think is just interesting for our listeners, and you guys
can speak to it. But I didn't know anything about
(16:38):
this world until two thousand and nine, and then the
world changed for me. And I'm the producer on two
films in developed ones and development one's about to be
in production now, and so from a little bit, I'm
kind of on the periphial of the movie business. But
everybody listening here needs to know that the movie business
(17:02):
model is the most screwed up business model on the
base of the planet. You have three legs, you have development,
you have production, and then you have distribution, and at
any point and any time, you could have millions of
dollars invested, and if one of those legs falls apart,
you can throw the whole thing in the garbage. Big
(17:24):
production houses in Hollywood there are I'm going to guess,
and I'm going to try to not to exaggerate, it's
exponentially more. I would say there are twenty times the
number of films that anybody ever sees. There are twenty
times those number of fiels canned sitting on a shelf
somewhere that will never seen them light to day. One
(17:46):
big time producer told me that they will spend money
at the big houses developing thirty or forty films a
year to make to actually release industry four to eight
on a really good year, and of those four to eight,
two will be profitable, and basically two profitable Mary movies
(18:11):
carry the entire cost load for all thirty projects of
the year. And if they don't get one or two
to make money, they lose money. If they make one,
if one or two may make it, so it's it
is a massively risky business. Yes, it takes an enormous
amount of money to produce a movie, and all the
(18:32):
way along until it hits a theater you actually get
distribution from somebody, you still have no idea if you're
pouring all that money down a drain somewhere. Yes, what
was what was your experience with this film in terms
of the development, production up to distribution which is about
to happen in a couple of weeks. Yeah, do you
want me to? Okay?
Speaker 4 (18:52):
I mean explaining it like that so well invokes anxiety.
But no, but.
Speaker 3 (19:01):
Especially since you're the one out there telling all these
people for your money, it's got to be greatause you're
going to get about how many investors? So that's forty
seven phone calls of what did you do with the money? Butthole,
that's what happens.
Speaker 4 (19:14):
No, it's what happens. I think very fortunate that this was.
There was so much positivity and belief and energy and
impact with this film. That's an impact film. And all
of our investors they knew what they were getting into.
They knew I wasn't promising returns. I wasn't doing anything
like that. They you know, they had met Nate, they
(19:36):
heard his story directly from him, and and we're like
you know, this is a if there's any film I
want to get behind, it's this film. And and it's
also like the biggest film to come out of Lancaster
since Witness. It's the only film to come out of
Lancaster that's based on a true hero, mister Dean and
and Nate's story and how that hunt of all came
to be. So, you know, we were very fortunate because
(19:57):
it's not like we were in la and one hundred
movies were and made and you had to pick one
to invest in, Like this was the film of the
century to come out of our of our town. People
wanted to be part of it. They wanted to be
kind of this momentum that was beginning. We had winded
our back even though it was insanely art. We ne't
have a distributor yet, we had a great agent at
the time. We had amazing talent. We had a great cinematographer.
(20:21):
Our director was great. I mean, we had a mating script, story,
all the things you need, all the pieces, but except
the cash. Except the cash. Yes, And then we slowly
had like a couple of people saying, Okay, I'll give
you five hundred thousand. I'll give you three hundred thousand,
and then and then it started to build and then
we you know, there's an underwater scene that was going
to get cut because that was done months later because
we didn't have money. And then the investors came in
(20:41):
and gave us more money. And then we needed more
post production. We needed some compote. We really wanted to
work with these composers, but we needed more funds. The
investors came kept giving me more money, kept giving us
more money, and they would come on set, you know,
and we have you know, you're burning whatever, one hundred
thousand a day. I don't know, you burn a lot
of money every day. They come out on set. They're
all entrepreneurs. They see like, I'm an entrepreneur as much
(21:03):
I'm an entrepreneur filmmaker, and they see the hustle that
everybody's doing to make this happen.
Speaker 3 (21:09):
How many dice worst production twenty six Yeah, that's so.
Most people also think people spend a year. Yeah, you can't.
Twenty six days. And that's hammering it.
Speaker 4 (21:22):
It's hammering, and we were very fortunate, Like so Jared Harris,
our lead actor, he's Damien Harris, the director's brother and
Jared's played in what he was in Chernobyl and mad
Men and the Crown, you know in I mean over
one hundred credits or you know in film and TV.
Really amazing actor Richard Harris's son, Damian Harrison, and Jamie
(21:44):
Harris their other brother, were all three in this. And
so we're fortunate because he came in a month early
to start rehearsing with Damien, and then Nicholas Hamilton, who
played Nate, came in a month early too. That never
happens independent film. They show up the day before you
start shooting and and they just they did that on
their own and they were like doing research. They you know,
(22:07):
Nate was introducing them to people who knew Stan, you know,
people who knew Nate as a kid. You know, just
so many people. They were doing so much research they met.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
It was a huge in character development.
Speaker 4 (22:19):
Yes, and we had a dialect coach because there's a
there's a show called Mayor of Eastown in our community.
Speaker 3 (22:24):
There.
Speaker 4 (22:25):
The dialect coach of that, Suzanne, She came early because
Jared's from the UK, so British accent. Nicks from the
Australia Australian accent, so she was working with them and
rehearsing with them, and they started building a camaraderie and
that is how it translates to the screen like so fortunate,
like a lot of times on these indies, like these
(22:45):
actors are coming. Like I said the day before, Hey,
how you doing. You read the script? I read the script.
Let's start that that's on low budgets. And then also
like you know, kind of combating on like okay, well
I need to be here for this scene, like this
is where I feel like I need to be not
and then you know, the cinematographer and the director's like,
(23:06):
well I would love for you to be here, like no, no, no,
I kind of really need to be here, you know.
And Jared and Nick were like, tell me a where
to go. I will act wherever I need to act,
Like let's make our days. We never missed our days.
Speaker 3 (23:18):
Stuff's going on. You know you've got a shot.
Speaker 4 (23:21):
Yeah, those little those little things give me the chills
that you said that, because like you know, it was
like oxygen, like all those little things that happened every
time Nate and I would get a set back, get
punched in the gut the next hour something crazy like that,
would happen like it was like.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
Pest.
Speaker 1 (23:41):
Yeah, Jared came on set, like you said, like literally
a month before and listen to every audio, video clip, photograph.
He looked through everything. He interviewed people that new Stan
loves Stan, and so he was very much involved, you know,
and and that he loved the story so much, and
(24:01):
so did Nick. That's why I think it was so successful,
because they were willing to do the things.
Speaker 3 (24:07):
Okay, so everybody's got the background on the movie business.
Now specifically this, I don't want to spoil everything, but
I will say the movie opens with you in high school,
but there's a series of flashbacks and all kinds of
other content. Why you are where you are and how
(24:32):
you are in high school is revealed throughout the movie.
So there's that. But again, we really want to celebrate
not only you as a subject to the movie, but
the real hero of the movie. And to get to
the real hero of the movie, I think we need
to go back to you as a five year old
(24:55):
and kind of start there. Why don't you tell me
about your experience as a as a little boy.
Speaker 1 (25:01):
Yeah, you know, sadly in this world, children are hurt
at very young ages. And I was physically emotionally in
all the ways that a young child can be hurt.
I felt at the age of five years old. I
remember it as if it was yesterday at times, and
childhood trauma affects the rest of your life. It still
(25:21):
affects me to this day in certain ways. I don't
let it hold me back. I pushed through most of it.
But yeah, I experienced some some major childhood trauma at
the age of five years old. And I don't know
how much we want to get into.
Speaker 3 (25:33):
I want to hear it.
Speaker 1 (25:33):
You want to hear it.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
I want to hear it. I've seen it, Okay, I've
read about it. I want our listeners when they're watching
the movie, I want your voice today to echo in
their minds. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:48):
So, at the age of five, I was playing out
in the front yard of my house and my father
pulled in in his you know, loud car and was
very angry and I didn't realize or understand why. And yeah,
and he just kind of looked down at me and
yelled at me and was like, where's your mother? And
(26:11):
I'm not going to give this part away, but I
said something to him that I ended up blaming myself
for for most of my life. And he ran inside
yelling for her, and found my mother and dragged her
outside of the house by her hair, literally ripping the
hair out of her head at times in clumps. He
(26:35):
was pulling her that hard face down, humiliating her, yelling
at her, and she's screaming for help, and there's no
one there to help her. I couldn't do anything, And
for some reason, I didn't run and hide. I just
kind of was stunned and.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
Just watched as he I think that's legitimately shocked.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
Yeah, it was shocked. But I'm a very visual person.
I've always been, and so those visions, you know, more
of that than the sounds. There's only a couple of
sounds that I remember as much as you know, just
screaming and whatnot. But to then see her being pushed
(27:13):
up against the car and being forced to look in
the rear view mirror, like in the the rear seat window,
and saying, do you see what I have for you?
And he had he had been target practicing with his
thirty odd six. He had determined that he was going
to do some very bad things that day, there was
no question, And somehow she managed to struggle free, and
(27:36):
she ran past me, and she's yelling for me to
stay with her, to to like run with her, and
I just couldn't. I just froze, a complete froze. And
then you know, I saw her run into the house,
and of course, as a mother, you know, she she
looked back, and she looked out the window to find me,
(27:56):
to see me and encourage me to run, and I didn't.
I just stood there frozen. And meanwhile, my father had
grabbed the gun out of the back seat, and he
walked towards the front door, and when she opened the
curtains to look back, he pulled the trigger. And that's
probably the sound that I remember the most, is the
loud sound of that gun, the explosion of that gun
(28:17):
going off, and just shaking, just like it just reverberated
through my soul. To see my mom fall and still screaming,
she managed to crawl into the living room, and for
some reason, I kind of came to I guess I
(28:39):
walked into the house, opened that door where the bullet
had gone through the window, and walked over to my
mother and I knelt down. And she didn't say I
loved you. She didn't say she was going to miss me.
She just said to run. She said run because she
(29:01):
didn't want something bad to happen to me. And so
I ran and hid behind the sofa where I had
always hit, because this wasn't the first time my dad
had showed violence to my mother. He had always beat
her and yelled at her and put her down and
(29:23):
choked her as I was always seemed to be there
in the background, hiding, and thankfully most of the times
he just pushed her down and left, but.
Speaker 3 (29:33):
This time he didn't. We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (29:51):
So I just said, Mommy, don't go. And so then
I heard the front door open again, and I heard
my my dad's cowboy boots walking across the floor, and
so I listened to my mother. I ran and hid
behind that sofa, and I kind of heard the last
(30:14):
breaths of my mother, and then my dad walked in
and at the same time, we both saw her kind
of body twitch. It was kind of like that last
inhale and like I believe that she had passed, but
he wanted to make sure, and so he took that
gun and he pointed at her head and he shot again,
and I just remember holding my ears and my eyes
(30:38):
tightly closed. And I don't know how long that was.
Something that's not in the film. We just felt like
it was just too much for the audience. But when
my dad went back outside on the porch, I went
back to my mother and I createled her head in
my arms and I held on to her, and in
(31:00):
the distance you could hear the sirens. My neighbor had
called the police. But it could have been twenty minutes,
who knows. I don't even remember time wise. But I
kind of walked outside and I walked over to my
dad and he was sitting on the porch and he
was crying, and he still had the gun in his hand,
but he was crying, and all of a sudden, he
(31:21):
kind of noticed me there and he kind of shook
him for a moment, and he kind of almost instantly
stopped crying, and he stood up and he walked right
over to me, and he looked right down at me,
and he's and you know, you know, in the film,
you're like, oh my gosh, he's gonna do something to
this kid, But to me, I didn't know anything. I
just stood there, like questioning what's going on, and in
(31:44):
total shock. And he looked right down at me and
he said, I'm sorry, son, but if I can't have her,
no one's going to have her. And that's emphasized in
the film because they were separated and my mom had
moved on, but he did not. And then the hard
part where he tried to put the gun in his
(32:07):
mouth and pulled the trigger but he couldn't reach the trigger.
He turned around with his back to me, and I
I would say that he shoved that gun so far
into his throat that he could pull the trigger. And
I stood there as and again we kind of cut
some of this stuff. It's too much for the audience.
(32:28):
But his blood went all over me and he fell
to the ground beside me, and I just remember closing
my eyes for a very long time, afraid to open them,
afraid to even move. I don't even know how.
Speaker 3 (32:43):
Long I stood there.
Speaker 1 (32:46):
And in the movie, I just, you know, I just
sat there, But in reality, I actually went up the
stairs to my mom's bedroom and I just sat on
the bed. And something else that's not portrayed in the
movie I'd love to share is that when the police
did arrive, they didn't know what was going on. They
(33:06):
thought it was a double murder because they didn't understand
how a guy could take a gun like that and
do that. But again they figured that out. But one
of the police officers came upstairs and he led me
down the stairs and said we're we're gonna take you somewhere.
And I just remember walking down and they held blankets
up to cover my mom so that I wouldn't see
(33:28):
my mom, and they did that with my dad, and
then they handed me over to my neighbor lady who
I knew, and that's portrayed in the film where she
takes me over to her house, into her mud room
and she puts me in this little galvanized metal tub,
takes my shirt off, and begins to pour water over
(33:50):
me to remove all the blood. She started singing this
little light of mine that's really prevalent in the film. Yeah,
so that was the day. That was what I experienced.
Speaker 3 (34:14):
You're going to find out through our conversation that you're in.
My life has interesting intersections, one of which is my
mom's fourth husband took out a gun when I was
in high school, shot the house up, and I dove,
I don't want to save myself. My mom head in
the attic and he ran out of bullets and was
reloading when the cops showed up. My mom lived, so
(34:39):
I can't even begin to identify with watching. Plus I
was a teenager, I wasn't a five year old. But
I can tell you this bro the sounds, the looks
on faces. I remember the bullet that passed me in
(35:02):
the hallway when it hit the closet. The weirdest thing
I remember is the clothes hangers knocking because the bullet
went through it. And like, I don't even remember the
sound gun, but I remember the clothes hangers going. And
all I can say is for a five year old
(35:24):
to experience that, that's as traumatic and will spur as
much PTSD as anybody deserved any war, and it will
have a profound effect on the psyche of any human
being that's been through it, much less a five year old.
And what is needed at that point is an enormous
amount of love and patience for grieving and everything else
(35:50):
which you did not get. So next step is the
only people you've got is your grandmother and father at
this point. Yeah, so tell me about that part.
Speaker 1 (36:04):
Yeah, I kind of my grandparents didn't know what to
do and sadly people lied to me. People tried to
say that it was just an accident, that it never
really happened that I did.
Speaker 3 (36:19):
This was the seventies, right, yeah, seventy three. Yeah five,
you an aren't the same age you were born in
sixty eighth then yeah, me too. So was that shame
and they were trying to hide the quote real story
or were they trying to protect you or both?
Speaker 1 (36:36):
I think a little bit of both.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
I don't think no, you sat there and saw it,
you're five, But they were emory.
Speaker 1 (36:41):
They weren't there to see that I saw it. So
when I said I saw this happen, They're like, no,
you did not like they I think in some ways
they were trying to protect me or the gaslighting, you know.
I mean, I think a lot of times adults can lie,
especially to foster child, Oh you're not a dop like
like they don't say that you've been adopted, or like,
(37:03):
you know, you find out when you're sixteen that you
were adopted. Like that to me is like insane, Like
why would you not tell your kid that you are
fostering or adopting that they're adopted? Like why let them
find out on the internet anyway, that's a whole nother
story somebody.
Speaker 3 (37:18):
Yeah, and they.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
Find out from someone else and then.
Speaker 3 (37:21):
In your whole reality correct.
Speaker 1 (37:24):
And so I and I began questioning, like, what did
I see?
Speaker 3 (37:28):
Did I see this?
Speaker 1 (37:29):
You know, was it really true?
Speaker 3 (37:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (37:31):
But I knew, I knew there's no hiding or denying that.
But I had to hide it.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
Your grandparents couldn't handle you, And so their answer to
that was yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
So so I ended up shutting down. My body shut down.
As a five year old that stress that that hurt,
I shut down. I literally did not speak for the
next two years, and for the two months I think
that that I was with my grandmother and grandfather. They
tried desperately to get me to talk, but I just
would not say anything. I had nothing to say.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
For one, you need professional help.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Yeah, yes, I had severe trauma. Trauma, and back then
it was a different thing, like it wasn't like it
is today. You know today, Yeah, no one understood that.
And again the newspaper was like, there was a child there,
but he was upstairs. He didn't see anything. So that
made everyone in the new you know, everyone reading it, go, oh,
we at least that didn't but right right, he's okay.
But you know, we hide some of those truths sometimes.
(38:26):
And again I didn't tell people other than my so
no one really knew that I had seen it at
that time. But anyway, my grandmother felt that they were
too old to take care of a traumatic five year old,
you know, a kid full of trauma who wouldn't speak.
She didn't know how to handle me, and she thought
the best thing to do was to take me to
(38:47):
an orphanage and drop me off. And can I tell
you driving up that lane to that orphanage, sitting in
the back seat, looking at the review mirror and seeing
her crying and just bawling, and then not understanding what
was happening, and getting out and being walked up to
a lady that was going to take care of me,
like here you are take care of this kid for
(39:08):
us was pretty brutal, and I just remember it was
another moment where my grandmother just knelt down, hugged me,
said she was sorry, gets back into her car and
literally never looked back. She just drove away, and I
remember running after the car. He wasn't there that day.
He didn't go along to do that. It was just
(39:31):
my grandmother.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
Oh, man, I have lots of thoughts, but I don't
want to talk about your grandparents. Yeah, God, how do
you let a woman go through that alone?
Speaker 1 (39:38):
Yeah, there's a lot of dysfunction in my family over
the course of all this, you know, the father's side
blaming them, you know, the mother's side, and the mother's
side blaming the you know, all sorts of blame and.
Speaker 3 (39:53):
Getting up and getting locked up in the middle of
everybody else's dysfunction.
Speaker 1 (39:56):
Yes, yes, and so hey, let's put him in a home.
Hopefully he'll get adopted by a wonderful family and he'll
live a happily happy life.
Speaker 3 (40:03):
And how did that work out? That didn't work out?
Speaker 1 (40:06):
That did not work out.
Speaker 3 (40:12):
And that concludes Part one of my conversation with Nate
Dean and Derek Deaner, And you don't want to miss
part two. It's now available to listen to together. Guys,
we can change this country, but it starts with you.
I'll see you in part two.
Host
Bill Courtney
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