February 21, 2025 • 15 mins
For "Shop Talk", Coach Bill shares the story of the motel where Rev. Martin Luther King Jr was shot and killed. And Jackie Smith's 34 year protest of it being converted into the National Civil Rights Museum.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:02):
Everybody. Welcome to Shop Talk number forty two. Welcome in
alex Hey doing good, good, Everything going okay this week?
I noticed you got that thing off your finger.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
It was terrible. So, man, so I had this like
gigantic pin in my finger for the last six weeks.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Did they pull it out? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
So what they did is they actually had the shot.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Part was the worse.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
They numbed it. It felt like they stuck a shot
like all the way through my finger. It was like
terrible ten seconds. But then actually when they pulled the
pin out, I couldn't even feel it. But it still
looks kind of ugly as you could see. So when
I go out on dates, I gotta put band aids
on that thing.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Bless your precious heart. I have a question, how'd you
break it?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Killing a palmetto bug in Florida. I don't know if
we've said this on the show before, but the Ortho
people in Oxford said they've never seen anybody do that.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
That is I'm.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
One of one.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Baby, I should laugh. I mean, I hate you broke
your finger, but oh my gosh, that's terrible.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I've had worse procedures.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Will Shop Talk number what are we forty two, forty two,
forty two, Jackie Robinson, Baby Jackie, Jackie Robinson, that's ironic.
We're going to talk about the Lorraine Hotel. The Ray Hotel,
for you guys who don't know, is on Wilberry Street
and Memphis, and it is the sight of doctor Martin
(01:27):
Luther King's assassination, a dark day in world history, American history,
and poignantly Memphis history, and why I think most people
have at least a cursory understanding all the way to
a very deep understanding of the story. There's a side
story I learned in college that still goes on today
(01:50):
that I want to share with you as we discuss perseverance,
spurred on by the in spring issue of the Great
Doctor Martin Luther King and the Shadows of the Rainmotel
right after these brief messages from our general sponsors, everybody,
(02:24):
Bill Courtney Shop Talk number forty two. So the Rainbowtel
is where Doctor Martin Luther King was killed. I mean,
there's nineteen different stories we could go into here, but
it's really for Shop Talk today is about perseverance. And
the reason I want to talk about perseverance is I
know when you get involved in different things in society.
(02:47):
There's typically a lot of energy and excitement when you start.
Same with starting a business, same with having a child.
You know, everybody is all excited and everything until they
become twelve and start talking back to you. The start
of a business, the excitement and the risk and everything else,
(03:08):
and then once you get over the hump and your
business starts going, it becomes kind of a daily grind.
Sometimes relationships can be like that. So the things that
end up lasting forever and having legacy are the ones
that persevere. And so I think perseverance is a key
(03:31):
part to the army of normal folks, because who cares
if we go across the street one or two times,
or for three or four months to do something different.
What really changes lives? We may consistent. We persevere through
the hard times and the difficult times, and we do
what we got to do consistently over a year after
year after year. We got to persevere. So when I
(03:53):
was a I think a sophomored ole Miss, I was
actually had a daily collum, a weekly column I wrote
for the Daily Mississippian newspaper at ole Miss And back
then there wasn't a lot of cable. There was probably
you know, ESPN and a few channels, but we still
(04:15):
watched a lot of local TV. And the Rainbowtel had
been privately owned and in an area of Memphis that
had not been yet redeveloped south of downtown, and at
that time it was a really rough area. This is
back I think eighty eight eighty nine. It was a
(04:36):
rough area, and the Rainmotel was dilapidated, falling apart, but
a still operating motel back in those days. The balcony
that King was shot on had a wreath on it,
and they obviously kind of had it cordoned off, and
they took the occasional visitor to that site, which many
(04:57):
would agree is hollowed ground. They were still trying to
operate this hotel and his lady named Jackie Smith was
running it, and while she did what she could to
sell rooms and get rape, she also used the place
to take care of homeless mothers, to take care of
(05:20):
people from the neighborhood who had nowhere to go. She
very quietly was really using the ram Hotel to help
a lot of people who were in poverty and suffering.
So one day some people got together and said, you
know what, we need to buy the roy Hotel and
(05:42):
make the National Civil Rights Museum out of it, and
do it right and bring people in to see it,
to celebrate the legacy at Doctor King, which of course
is a noble experiment and idea. And that's what happened,
and quickly the city and county bought the Ram Hotel,
raised millions of dollars to create what is now the
(06:05):
National Civil Rights Museum here in Memphis, Tennessee. And it
is the National Civil Rights Museum for our country. And
it is that that museum is done beautifully and very well.
And if you ever come to Memphis, I highly suggest
you doing it. But Jackie was operating the hotel back then,
and when she found out the city and government were
(06:27):
going to take the hotel, she didn't think that was right,
didn't want that to happen, and she locked herself in
a room and would not come out. She had a
hot plate and a case of beans, and for thirty
days she locked herself on the room and wouldn't leave.
And I remember when the sheriffs finally broke down the
(06:49):
door and dragged her out. I remember watching on the
news a bunch of sheriffs carrying this black woman out
of the rain hotel literally by her hands and feet,
and she is screaming at the top of her lungs.
And across the street from hotel they stacked all her
(07:11):
belongings put a tarp over it, and there she stood
on the side of the street, looking at the motel
across the street that she once spent her life running.
And honestly, if I'm really candid, the whole picture was
pre Pae was portrayed of yet another angry black woman. Frankly,
(07:38):
and I found it interesting. I didn't understand why a
black woman would be protesting an amazing, beautiful museum and
honor of the greatest name in the civil rights movement
in history. Why wouldn't she be so clebrading that. Why
(08:00):
is she so angry? They didn't add up. So I
got my car, drove up to Memphis and went looking
for and it wasn't hard to find her because she
was still sitting there three days later, next to all
our belongings under a tarp and a chair. So I
walked up and I said, hey, I'm Bill. She introduced
herself as Jackie Jacqueline Smith, and I asked her the
(08:22):
very question I asked you, and she said this, monuments
and museums do not perpetuate the memory of doctor King.
If we're going to spend all these millions of dollars
for a museum and a monument, why wouldn't we spend
it to take care of the people in this very
(08:43):
neighborhood who are suffering. She said, I don't think a
monument and a museum perpetuate his memory. I don't think
this is what he would want us to spend these
millions of dollars on, and so I'm protesting it. Well,
that was interesting, and you could argue whether or not
(09:04):
she was right, and you could argue whether or not
maybe it could have a dual purpose, which it never did.
I will tell you the National Civil Rights Museum is
still standing. Well. It's one of the most visiting museums
in the United States. It is a phenomenally well put
(09:25):
together museum. It tells a accurate, great story of Martin
Luther King and the civil rights movement. And it being
built and the money put into it kind of revitalized
that entire area, which is now a really neat area
up and down Main Street with nice hotels and cool
(09:47):
shops and a lot going on. So by all practical measurements,
it could be argued that it was a great development,
a great idea, and worked. But in twenty twenty four,
Jackie Smith is still on the corner with her belongings
(10:10):
under a tarp across the street from Rainbowtel. Thirty five
years later, she still stands in opposition. She has persevered beatings,
she has persevered weather, she has persevered sickness, she's persevered hunger,
(10:32):
and to this day, that woman is still on the
curb on Mulberry Street, talking to anybody who will pass by,
trying to say, can we please remember that doctor King's
memory is not about monuments, It's not about museums, whether
(10:52):
it's about action. Now, I say this all because you
can argue with whether or not Jackie smith protest is
(11:13):
valid or not, but you cannot argue with her perseverance.
What has it led to. She has been visited by
Kreta Scott King, she has been visited by Bono of
U two. She has been visited by heads of state.
She's been visited by the Gandhi family. She has been
visited by dignitaries from all over the world who have
(11:38):
come to her little table on the cornery of Mulberry Street,
across from this massive civil rights museum, to tell her
that they hear her. She has swayed opinion, she has
inspired minds. And this is a woman who is sitting
(12:00):
in the rain hotel, barely making ends meat eating beans,
who was so convicted that she has persevered for thirty
four years for a simple message, which is monuments and
museums do not properly perpetuate the memories of people like
doctor King action does, and she has spent her life
(12:24):
persevering in the very pursuit of that action. Now, if
she can do that, how hard is it for us
to use our discipline, our passion in areas of need
and invest a couple hours a week to help somebody?
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Alex So, a mutual friend of ours, on Martin Luther
King Day this year, posted this that I always thought
Martin Luther King Day was just a day off in
a way to honor his legacy in him, But he
actually inarently pull us up. He said, did you know,
Martin Luther King Junior Day isn't intended to be a
day off. It's a day on a call to action
(13:05):
honor doctor King's legacy through service. And I looked it
up and it actually says it here too. You know,
in terms of the federal holiday is designated as a
National Day of Service to encourage all Americans to volunteer
to honor his life and legacy.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
I wish I would.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Have you heard that before.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
I've never known that. Isn't that wild? I've never known that.
I wish. I wish that we would.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
I'm thinking as an army next year, we should do
a joint Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
We should do something that makes sense. I mean that's
in keeping with exactly what we're talking about. Have you
met Jackie No, I'll take you down there to meet her.
I mean she's getting old. Oh.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
The final thought like going down there and all of
them bring our guests by there to while they're in town.
But it's a feeling like at the nine to eleven Memorial.
I mean you feel just like this eerie sense within you,
in this solemn sense. And it doesn't seem to make
sense because it's another piece of pavement in another building,
but you truly do feel something different in you.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
When you roll up, you almost have this odd sense
of reverence that takes over you because you know greatness
was ended on that porch that day. The other thing
is when you go and you see this lady sitting
there at a table across the street, and you don't
(14:26):
really know. I can't tell you how many people I've
been I've watched walk across and say I and Jackie
smiles real big, and she starts handing him a paper
and they're sitting there nodding, and it's just this whole
thing down there that I think is pretty special. And
for any of you that are listening to me, if
(14:46):
you're in Memphis, do you ever go to this thing?
Find that little table across the street from Ramo Tell
and walk up to that lady sitting there and ask
her if she's Jackie Smith and listen to her story.
It's pretty amazing, pretty amazing. Okay, Shop Talk number forty two.
If you like this episode, rate it, review it, share
(15:07):
at friends on social.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Subscribe to the podcast, join the army at normal Folks
at us, become a premium member. There am I hosting
the show for now. I'm like, why are you like
slacking off with your plugs?
Speaker 1 (15:17):
I'll forget some of it. Oh and if you have
any ideas, write me anytime. It built normal folks.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Dot us there you got, good job boy.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
All right, we're leaving the shop. Thanks everybody, Thanks to
our producer are Light Labs. We'll see you next week
Everybody. Welcome to Shop Talk number forty two. Welcome in
alex Hey doing good, good, Everything going okay this week?
I noticed you got that thing off your finger.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
It was terrible. So, man, so I had this like
gigantic pin in my finger for the last six weeks.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
Did they pull it out? Yeah?
Speaker 2 (00:22):
So what they did is they actually had the shot.
Speaker 1 (00:25):
Part was the worse.
Speaker 2 (00:25):
They numbed it. It felt like they stuck a shot
like all the way through my finger. It was like
terrible ten seconds. But then actually when they pulled the
pin out, I couldn't even feel it. But it still
looks kind of ugly as you could see. So when
I go out on dates, I gotta put band aids
on that thing.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Bless your precious heart. I have a question, how'd you
break it?
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Killing a palmetto bug in Florida. I don't know if
we've said this on the show before, but the Ortho
people in Oxford said they've never seen anybody do that.
Speaker 1 (00:54):
That is I'm.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
One of one.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
Baby, I should laugh. I mean, I hate you broke
your finger, but oh my gosh, that's terrible.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
I've had worse procedures.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
Will Shop Talk number what are we forty two, forty two,
forty two, Jackie Robinson, Baby Jackie, Jackie Robinson, that's ironic.
We're going to talk about the Lorraine Hotel. The Ray Hotel,
for you guys who don't know, is on Wilberry Street
and Memphis, and it is the sight of doctor Martin
(01:27):
Luther King's assassination, a dark day in world history, American history,
and poignantly Memphis history, and why I think most people
have at least a cursory understanding all the way to
a very deep understanding of the story. There's a side
story I learned in college that still goes on today
(01:50):
that I want to share with you as we discuss perseverance,
spurred on by the in spring issue of the Great
Doctor Martin Luther King and the Shadows of the Rainmotel
right after these brief messages from our general sponsors, everybody,
(02:24):
Bill Courtney Shop Talk number forty two. So the Rainbowtel
is where Doctor Martin Luther King was killed. I mean,
there's nineteen different stories we could go into here, but
it's really for Shop Talk today is about perseverance. And
the reason I want to talk about perseverance is I
know when you get involved in different things in society.
(02:47):
There's typically a lot of energy and excitement when you start.
Same with starting a business, same with having a child.
You know, everybody is all excited and everything until they
become twelve and start talking back to you. The start
of a business, the excitement and the risk and everything else,
(03:08):
and then once you get over the hump and your
business starts going, it becomes kind of a daily grind.
Sometimes relationships can be like that. So the things that
end up lasting forever and having legacy are the ones
that persevere. And so I think perseverance is a key
(03:31):
part to the army of normal folks, because who cares
if we go across the street one or two times,
or for three or four months to do something different.
What really changes lives? We may consistent. We persevere through
the hard times and the difficult times, and we do
what we got to do consistently over a year after
year after year. We got to persevere. So when I
(03:53):
was a I think a sophomored ole Miss, I was
actually had a daily collum, a weekly column I wrote
for the Daily Mississippian newspaper at ole Miss And back
then there wasn't a lot of cable. There was probably
you know, ESPN and a few channels, but we still
(04:15):
watched a lot of local TV. And the Rainbowtel had
been privately owned and in an area of Memphis that
had not been yet redeveloped south of downtown, and at
that time it was a really rough area. This is
back I think eighty eight eighty nine. It was a
(04:36):
rough area, and the Rainmotel was dilapidated, falling apart, but
a still operating motel back in those days. The balcony
that King was shot on had a wreath on it,
and they obviously kind of had it cordoned off, and
they took the occasional visitor to that site, which many
(04:57):
would agree is hollowed ground. They were still trying to
operate this hotel and his lady named Jackie Smith was
running it, and while she did what she could to
sell rooms and get rape, she also used the place
to take care of homeless mothers, to take care of
(05:20):
people from the neighborhood who had nowhere to go. She
very quietly was really using the ram Hotel to help
a lot of people who were in poverty and suffering.
So one day some people got together and said, you
know what, we need to buy the roy Hotel and
(05:42):
make the National Civil Rights Museum out of it, and
do it right and bring people in to see it,
to celebrate the legacy at Doctor King, which of course
is a noble experiment and idea. And that's what happened,
and quickly the city and county bought the Ram Hotel,
raised millions of dollars to create what is now the
(06:05):
National Civil Rights Museum here in Memphis, Tennessee. And it
is the National Civil Rights Museum for our country. And
it is that that museum is done beautifully and very well.
And if you ever come to Memphis, I highly suggest
you doing it. But Jackie was operating the hotel back then,
and when she found out the city and government were
(06:27):
going to take the hotel, she didn't think that was right,
didn't want that to happen, and she locked herself in
a room and would not come out. She had a
hot plate and a case of beans, and for thirty
days she locked herself on the room and wouldn't leave.
And I remember when the sheriffs finally broke down the
(06:49):
door and dragged her out. I remember watching on the
news a bunch of sheriffs carrying this black woman out
of the rain hotel literally by her hands and feet,
and she is screaming at the top of her lungs.
And across the street from hotel they stacked all her
(07:11):
belongings put a tarp over it, and there she stood
on the side of the street, looking at the motel
across the street that she once spent her life running.
And honestly, if I'm really candid, the whole picture was
pre Pae was portrayed of yet another angry black woman. Frankly,
(07:38):
and I found it interesting. I didn't understand why a
black woman would be protesting an amazing, beautiful museum and
honor of the greatest name in the civil rights movement
in history. Why wouldn't she be so clebrading that. Why
(08:00):
is she so angry? They didn't add up. So I
got my car, drove up to Memphis and went looking
for and it wasn't hard to find her because she
was still sitting there three days later, next to all
our belongings under a tarp and a chair. So I
walked up and I said, hey, I'm Bill. She introduced
herself as Jackie Jacqueline Smith, and I asked her the
(08:22):
very question I asked you, and she said this, monuments
and museums do not perpetuate the memory of doctor King.
If we're going to spend all these millions of dollars
for a museum and a monument, why wouldn't we spend
it to take care of the people in this very
(08:43):
neighborhood who are suffering. She said, I don't think a
monument and a museum perpetuate his memory. I don't think
this is what he would want us to spend these
millions of dollars on, and so I'm protesting it. Well,
that was interesting, and you could argue whether or not
(09:04):
she was right, and you could argue whether or not
maybe it could have a dual purpose, which it never did.
I will tell you the National Civil Rights Museum is
still standing. Well. It's one of the most visiting museums
in the United States. It is a phenomenally well put
(09:25):
together museum. It tells a accurate, great story of Martin
Luther King and the civil rights movement. And it being
built and the money put into it kind of revitalized
that entire area, which is now a really neat area
up and down Main Street with nice hotels and cool
(09:47):
shops and a lot going on. So by all practical measurements,
it could be argued that it was a great development,
a great idea, and worked. But in twenty twenty four,
Jackie Smith is still on the corner with her belongings
(10:10):
under a tarp across the street from Rainbowtel. Thirty five
years later, she still stands in opposition. She has persevered beatings,
she has persevered weather, she has persevered sickness, she's persevered hunger,
(10:32):
and to this day, that woman is still on the
curb on Mulberry Street, talking to anybody who will pass by,
trying to say, can we please remember that doctor King's
memory is not about monuments, It's not about museums, whether
(10:52):
it's about action. Now, I say this all because you
can argue with whether or not Jackie smith protest is
(11:13):
valid or not, but you cannot argue with her perseverance.
What has it led to. She has been visited by
Kreta Scott King, she has been visited by Bono of
U two. She has been visited by heads of state.
She's been visited by the Gandhi family. She has been
visited by dignitaries from all over the world who have
(11:38):
come to her little table on the cornery of Mulberry Street,
across from this massive civil rights museum, to tell her
that they hear her. She has swayed opinion, she has
inspired minds. And this is a woman who is sitting
(12:00):
in the rain hotel, barely making ends meat eating beans,
who was so convicted that she has persevered for thirty
four years for a simple message, which is monuments and
museums do not properly perpetuate the memories of people like
doctor King action does, and she has spent her life
(12:24):
persevering in the very pursuit of that action. Now, if
she can do that, how hard is it for us
to use our discipline, our passion in areas of need
and invest a couple hours a week to help somebody?
What do you think?
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Alex So, a mutual friend of ours, on Martin Luther
King Day this year, posted this that I always thought
Martin Luther King Day was just a day off in
a way to honor his legacy in him, But he
actually inarently pull us up. He said, did you know,
Martin Luther King Junior Day isn't intended to be a
day off. It's a day on a call to action
(13:05):
honor doctor King's legacy through service. And I looked it
up and it actually says it here too. You know,
in terms of the federal holiday is designated as a
National Day of Service to encourage all Americans to volunteer
to honor his life and legacy.
Speaker 1 (13:19):
I wish I would.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Have you heard that before.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
I've never known that. Isn't that wild? I've never known that.
I wish. I wish that we would.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
I'm thinking as an army next year, we should do
a joint Yeah.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
We should do something that makes sense. I mean that's
in keeping with exactly what we're talking about. Have you
met Jackie No, I'll take you down there to meet her.
I mean she's getting old. Oh.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
The final thought like going down there and all of
them bring our guests by there to while they're in town.
But it's a feeling like at the nine to eleven Memorial.
I mean you feel just like this eerie sense within you,
in this solemn sense. And it doesn't seem to make
sense because it's another piece of pavement in another building,
but you truly do feel something different in you.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
When you roll up, you almost have this odd sense
of reverence that takes over you because you know greatness
was ended on that porch that day. The other thing
is when you go and you see this lady sitting
there at a table across the street, and you don't
(14:26):
really know. I can't tell you how many people I've
been I've watched walk across and say I and Jackie
smiles real big, and she starts handing him a paper
and they're sitting there nodding, and it's just this whole
thing down there that I think is pretty special. And
for any of you that are listening to me, if
(14:46):
you're in Memphis, do you ever go to this thing?
Find that little table across the street from Ramo Tell
and walk up to that lady sitting there and ask
her if she's Jackie Smith and listen to her story.
It's pretty amazing, pretty amazing. Okay, Shop Talk number forty two.
If you like this episode, rate it, review it, share
(15:07):
at friends on social.
Speaker 2 (15:09):
Subscribe to the podcast, join the army at normal Folks
at us, become a premium member. There am I hosting
the show for now. I'm like, why are you like
slacking off with your plugs?
Speaker 1 (15:17):
I'll forget some of it. Oh and if you have
any ideas, write me anytime. It built normal folks.
Speaker 2 (15:22):
Dot us there you got, good job boy.
Speaker 1 (15:23):
All right, we're leaving the shop. Thanks everybody, Thanks to
our producer are Light Labs. We'll see you next week
Host
Bill Courtney
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