February 11, 2025 • 45 mins
In the state of Tennessee, payday lenders can charge interest rates upwards of 459%. Travis Moody and his nonprofit Forward Memphis are on a mission to outcompete them, charging only 10%. In only 20 months, they’ve helped 600 families save a total of $800k!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
A drive in Caryville. There's not one payday long store
drive through Germantown, not one. The closer I get to
new direction, the matter I get because the closer I
get there, payday loan title loan places everywhere, and I
was just bad by the time I got to I was.
I get to where a new direction. There's two of
(00:28):
the best churches in Memphis right there, world overcomers, New directions.
I stand outside in the parking lot and there are
four predatory loan places that.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
You can see from the parking lot with the church.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yes, and so they literally go into the church to
pray and come out to get prayed over.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney.
I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father,
I'm an entrepreneur, and I'm a football coach and inner
City Memphis. And that last part it's somehow it's led
to an oscar for the film about our team. That
movie's called Undefeated. Y'all. I believe our country's problems are
(01:13):
never going to be solved by a bunch of fancy
people and nice suits using big words that nobody ever
uses on CNN and Fox, but rather by an army
of normal folks. Y'all. That is us. That's you and
me seeing a place in need and saying, you know what,
maybe I can help. That's what Travis Moody, the voice
(01:35):
you just heard, has done. Travis and his nonprofit Ford
Memphis are fighting to outcompete predatory lenders that are really
taking advantage of the most vulnerable Memphians. As you're about
to hear, this is not even close to just a
Memphis problem. It's literally everywhere. I cannot wait for you
(01:56):
to meet Travis right after these brief messages from ours
are general sponsors. Travis Moody's in the house, the founder
(02:21):
and CEO AFFD Memphis, Travis good Sie. You know, most
times I say how'd you get here? Because folks are
coming from Indiana or Chicago or Los Angeles or wherever.
But Travis Moody is a Memphis fella. So how you
got here is you probably woke up in your house
and broke across town exactly right. Yeah, who you got
(02:43):
over your shoulder there? Who's with us today? Alex Oh,
this is Sherman, this is his building. I know, I
just wanted we got a guest I thought we'd say hello,
It's just it's this building. That's why I said, he's
your guest to the show. Here you are, what's up right?
(03:06):
That's right. Well, he's a guest to the show. We
may be in his building, but he's a guest in
this place, that's right. So that's it. So it's a
Memphis thing today, and Ford Memphis is something really near
and dear to my heart. And we're going to talk
(03:26):
about that. But first, Travis, you started here, been all
around the world and ended up back here. Kind of
tell us how you grew up in your track. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
I grew up actually not too far from here, just
right over the oh the highway off of Alsier Road,
went to Hamilton High School. Love Hamilton absolutely. My mom
still lives in the AlSi community, so I really love
that community.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
So this is home. So you must have been all
right in football in high school.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
I enjoyed playing football. It's fortunate to get a scholarship
to Georgia Tech to play football.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah. So what position were we?
Speaker 1 (04:11):
I played nose guard?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
You a noseguard, you were a shade or straight up zero?
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Well then it was a straight up it was we played.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Because you're playing five man front. Yeah, so you're used
to taking on double teams.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
That's that was my only job.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Split the double.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Just don't let the guys get out to the lineback
to keep them off the linebackers.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Split the double. That's that's it. Man. I spent thirty
years trying to find some kid that could do that,
and they're rare. So that means you're tough. That means
you're selfless, and that means you you'll take on two
on one to let your buddy behind you win. That's
the way I look at noseguards. So Georgia Tech's a
good school, man. I mean, what was your degree in
(04:53):
industrin engineer, Travis. I mean growing up in kind of
the inner city Memphis and back then, I think that
the community around Hamilton was still a pretty decent community, right,
And but you got at Georgia Tech got an engineering degree.
(05:14):
I mean, that's that's that's arriving.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Yeah, I think it was when I went to school.
I mean, Hamilton did a good job of putting the
emphasis on me academically because I just wanted to play football.
But the coaches talked about, you know, football is just
a way to get you a better life, and they
really focused on me getting a degree. And when the
(05:39):
colleges started to recruit me, the Georgia Tech came and
I had never heard of Georgia Tech. I never met
any engineer, but my teachers pushed me to say, you
know you're good in bath and science. We think engineering
would be a good fit for you. And all they
did was they took out a magazine to show the
(06:00):
average salaries engineers compared to other people, and I think
it may have been like twenty eight thousand dollars a
year and it was the highest one. I said, just
sign me up for that good. That's fine. So I
had never met an engineer, but I had good counselors
and good teachers that said, we think this would be
a good good fit for you.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
So you weren't just a meatthead, nose guard and pretty
bright kid wanted to find the future.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Yes, and and again I had teachers and people in
my life, the coaches that pushed me to they gave
me a vision for my life.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
What did what did your neighborhood and high school in
the eighties? I guess this was the eighties.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Yes, I graduated in eighty five.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Nineteen eighty five. Okay, you're in a the same age,
so what did what did that community in that world
look like in the mid eighties.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
So we came I came in and in the bussing period,
so we were bussed out of our neighborhood in middle school,
so I was we were bussed to Whitdeal your high school,
and in that time the area in hick or Hill
Woodeale was still primarily majority white. So we had a
very diverse junior high school experience and really loved it.
(07:12):
You know, obviously it was a household getting up earlier
and getting on a bus, but uh, we had a
really good experience. Both my wife and I both were
bussed to Woodale Junior High.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
School and then for high school you went to Hamilton.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Yes, my neighborhood of school was Hamilton, and again just
a really good experience. Then many of my teachers lived
in my neighborhood. I had teachers that lived on my street.
So if I didn't do right in school, you know,
the last thing I wanted was my teacher telling my parents.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
So everybody, yes, you know, I know this is not
this is when I hear what you're saying, I do
actually think it applies to some of what we're going
to talk to with regard to Ford Memphis. But I
just it saddens me because I think we've lost a
(08:08):
lot of what you're talking about in our inner cities.
I just don't know that communities have kids going to
neighborhood schools with teachers and people working in and around
the community, living in the community, and kids and families
feeling safe to share experiences like that anymore. What do
(08:31):
you think?
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Yeah, that's well, one of the reasons why I like
the ass of community because I do see some.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Of that that's still going back.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Many of my classmates are moving back into the community.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Oh that's cool.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
My mom still lives there. My mother in law lives
in the community. We have two properties in the community.
We're looking at how to move back. We have a
propit on the same street with three of our classmates.
And so we think that this, you know, we think
there's an opportunity that Memphis has that a lot of
places don't have, where there's a chance to really invest
(09:08):
in ourselves. We think there's a lot of people who
care about Memphis, and we think we're part of that.
We love Memphis, and we want to make it better
and we think there are a lot of people that
we can collaborate with.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I've done a lot of work in North Memphis. My
business is in North Memphis. I've coached for years and
years in North Memphis. And at one time, and for
those listeners not from Memphis, which is the vast majority
of our listeners, North Memphis is you can't really go
(09:43):
west because you've got the Mississippi River. So you've got
North Memphis, South Memphis, and East Memphis, and then in
the middle you have downtown in Midtown and those I
would say are the five general areas of the city.
And then each of those areas have pockets. So in
North Memphis, three of those pockets are New Chicago, Smoky City,
(10:06):
and Green Law, which is where my business is surrounded by.
And back in the seventies and eighties, there was Firestone,
there was Harvester, there were grocery stores, there were places
to shop, and there were all these really pretty good
playing paying blue collar jobs. And then due to a
(10:30):
lot of factors and including a lot of destruction that
happened in the early seventies after the assassination of Martin
Luther King, a lot of offshoring of blue collar jobs.
Companies like Harvester moved away or folded up, Caterpillar moved away,
(10:51):
folded up Firestone, which was massive, folded up, and those
that could left that couldn't had to stay. And three
decades later, what was once a really thriving blue collar there,
largely African American communities with a lot of pride surrounding
(11:15):
the schools and the neighborhoods, has just year by year
by year dilapidated, really, and you end up with food deserts,
work deserts, and when the money leaves, the support for
the school and PTA and so it's just this And
I don't think that's a Memphis story. I think that's
(11:37):
an urban story and a lot of cities across the country.
But what happens is people in those situations end up
financially desperate. And it concerns me because if we don't
redevelop those areas, re educate those areas, and help people
in those areas rise above those circle ccumstances, what happens
(12:01):
to our tax space, but what happens to our society,
what happens to our culture? Do you see that in
the work you're doing.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah, what we see is many of those communities are
have people under financial distress, and so those are the
very people that get prayed on. Communities you talked about
is where all of the payday loan, the predator lending happens.
I mean, it doesn't happen in Caruville to Germantown.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
They're about you fill in Germantown or suburbs of Memphis
that are very affluent.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
This absolutely there's not one payday loan store in either
of those communities.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Okay, so we'll get to that. So Georgia Tech, then
you go to do can get your NBA right, I mean, dude,
Georgia Tech undergraduate and the duke NBA. That's impressive. I
mean you were on the way.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Yeah, yes, I think that was. I had a lot
of good mentoring when I One of the reasons why
I went to Georgia Tech was and I thought it
was a great place to grow. And and again I was,
you know, coming out of South Memphis that was very
rough and a lot of things I didn't have exposure to.
So but it was a great start. And you know,
(13:19):
we had had a good coach and when they recruited me.
One of the reasons why I went because again I
wanted to play big time football. But at the time
the coach there knew that there were some other things
that you know, wasn't that were important to me. He
had the the mayor at the time, the mayor of Atlanta,
to call my parents and that was a big selling
(13:41):
point because he was Scyning Andrew Young. He was part
of the Civil rights movement, so my parents knew him.
He was second to Martin Luther King and as far
as leadership in the civil rights movement, really he became
an ambassador and later and at this time he was
the mayor of Atlanta, uh and very well known in
the black community. And so when he called my parents
(14:03):
and said, well, if you send your son to Atlanta,
I'll take care of him.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Well, gosh, what else do you want?
Speaker 1 (14:08):
That was a great and uh and so that I enjoyed.
It was a you know, and being around and he
and he did he he took me in I would
you know, he would take me into his home and
be around him and his family, and you know, I'd
had an internship in his office and but man, it
was just great exposure.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
So you ever heard of a guy in Memphis named
Robert Hill. Yes, I know Robert. So Robert spent a
guest on the show with with the thing he's doing
called Friends after Five. And when when you said, I
grew up in South Memphis and there were things I
just never heard of, I'd never been exposed to. What
(14:53):
Robert's doing with Friends after Five is he thinks access
and exposure is the are the two greatest limitations to
the growth of the black middle class, Because how do
you elevate yourself if you don't have access to the
elevator or exposure to people who, if you do good work,
(15:16):
have the ability to help you elevate yourself.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Yes, I agree with that one.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
All right. So what he does with Friends after Five
is he sets up meetings after five and he brings
in young black graduates and professionals from HBCUs and all
over Memphis. And he does it. He's doing it many
other cities, not just Memphis. And then he convinces both
black and white middle aged business owners and they simply
(15:46):
gather for two and a half three hours somewhere and
they just get to know each other, just friends after five.
And then what it does is it opens folks eyes
to the opportunities and the possibilities that exist outside of
in your case, South Memphis. Right. What it also does
(16:08):
is opens the business world's ideas too. These are some
whip smart, young, aggressive, bright professionals, and if we just
give them an opportunity, they're gonna thrive and through friends.
After five, he says he can help grow the middle
class just by no freebies, no nothing, just exposure and access. Right.
(16:35):
And when I hear you say I grew up in
South Memphis, I don't know nothing about Georgia Tech. I'd
never met an engineer. That's exposure and access, I say.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Just I'll tell you. So when I got to Georgia Tech,
I took my you know, because again I want I
wanted to be an engineer, and I signed up. One
of my first classes was this computer class, programming basic computer.
That's what it was called. Well, I thought basic computer men,
that they were gonna teach me basic. I had never
(17:04):
seen a computer in my life, so I thought, they're
gonna teach me what a computer is, how to turn
it on? And the professor said, how many people have
written line programs or lines of a hundred and you know,
people raise their hands and how many written a five
hundred lines? A few of other people raise a hand.
I was waiting for him to say, who don't know
(17:25):
how to turn.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
On the computer?
Speaker 3 (17:29):
That never happened, And there quiet, I've sitting there. Everybody's
staying with up for me, So let me ask them.
Did that make you feel insecure?
Speaker 1 (17:41):
It made me realize this was gonna be a lot
harder than I thought, and I needed help. I knew
I needed uh the great thing in the athletic department
had tutors available, but I didn't. I had to work
a lot harder. It was, and it was no way
around it. I just had to work harder because I
was It wasn't I wasn't smart enough. I just didn't
(18:03):
have the exposure as my classmates had computers in their
dorm room. I'd never seen a personal computer. I had
to learn. But I so that hard work exposure. It
really helped me to kind of prepel.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
For and now a few messages from our general sponsors.
But first we've launched a new written series called Normal
(18:46):
Folks Wisdom. I think Alex came up with that. Did
you come up with that? And an army of Normal
Dead Folks.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
People have strong feelings on that one already, so we'll
see what they think about this.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I don't know about these titles, but anyway, we've got
this thing called normal Folks Wisdom. Come on, you like it.
I do like it, Actually I like it better than
dead folks. But whatever. What normal Folks Wisdom is is
it's the heroic normal folks we interview and when they
share poignant, cutting, practical, and oftentimes hilarious wisdom with us.
(19:20):
So we want to make it digestible for Army members,
especially if you don't get a chance to listen to
every single episode with shame on you, you should or
all the way through. So we think everybody can find
it valuable. The best way to start getting normal Folks
wisdom is to follow us on Instagram at Army of
(19:44):
Normal Folks or by signing up to join the Army
at normal Folks dot us. As we're going to start
emailing these things out as well. There's some fancy folks
with some wisdom, but normal folks got a whole bunch
of it and are often overlooked. I hope you'll check
it out. We'll be right back. One of my very
(20:24):
dearest friends in the world is named Mike Ray. Mike
Ray played at Arkansas State for Larry Lacewell. If Mike
had a little bit bigger size, he would have played
the NFL. He was one of those guys that was
an undersized tackle but was very effective. Right he helped.
He was my offensive line coach for four years, and
(20:45):
dear friend. His children and my children remained dear friends.
They done to each other's weddings and all that. When
Mike started coaching with me at Manassas my third year,
his first year there, about halfway through the season, really
started to recognize deficiencies in what we would consider basics.
(21:13):
So one day he asked a couple of players, Hey, man,
how much do you think so and so's grandmama's house costs?
And folks twenty thousand dollars? He said, okay, how much
(21:35):
do you think my car costs? And he drove a
five year old suburban ten thousand dollars. All right, how
much do you think my house costs? And now he'd
taken all his offensive linement at his house, swim in
the pool and heat. He did it all the time
he invested in him. Now his house was in Germantown.
(21:55):
It was sixty three hundred square feet thousand.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
I want to buy that house me too.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
I'll line up by ten of them. But the point
was five twenty thousand and thirty thousand. They knew the
house was more expensive the car, and the bigger house
is more expensive the smaller house. They could not. They
had absolutely no idea what things cost in the world.
Then he did another thing, and he said, if I
(22:29):
give you two hundred dollars, and for the week, you
have to do these things, and you want these shoes,
and these shoes cost one hundred and sixty dollars, and
I give you two hundred, can you afford them? Yeah?
Heck yeah, I can afford those shoes. I got two
hundred one sixty. Well, that leaves forty. Can you eat
(22:54):
and provide basic necessities for yourself over the week with
forty dollars? I don't know. You know. The point is,
if it's in your pocket, you can afford it. But
you're not thinking about anything else. And through those two questions,
(23:14):
Mike grew to understand and tell me Bill, we got
to start teaching basic financial literacy. These kids, they have
no idea how money savings through work interest, anything works
and it's because their parents didn't know and they were
(23:38):
never again, they never had access or exposure to a
savings account, a checking account how things worked. And it
was devastating to me. I'm a I'm a football coach.
I don't I don't teach in the school. And we
started trying to have these conversations. But it was devastating
to me because what happens even if these kids do
(23:59):
reach so level of success, how are they going to
maintain it when they don't even know how to act
with money.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Well, what we find is that, man, there's a different
mindset when it comes to poverty and middle class values.
And I didn't know that until we As we start
coaching people who are in that came out of poverty,
(24:25):
even if they have high income, there's still a poverty
mindset that we have to help.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Overcome.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
And because every financial success is based off of middle
class values.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
We talk about it all the time. These folks that
do make it athletically and are paid millions of dollars. Right,
people don't understand there is income tax. In most of
the states, there's a state income tax that agent's pulling
(24:59):
three twelve percent, and a guy that's that comes from
an area where he has no financial literacy. Maybe he
does sign a twelve million dollar contract and get a
six hundred thousand signing bonus, and he feels like he's
got to help his mama. And the cousins show up,
and everybody wants a new car, and everybody wants shoes,
(25:21):
and then everybody's hanging around him, and then we go,
look at this idiot. He's twenty eight. He had all
that money and he's broken. What a dummy. And it
disgusts me when we talk about guys like that because
nobody came alongside, or very few come alongside to help
(25:43):
support what to do with that wealth, and people don't
understand what comes out of it before it ever gets
to him in the first place.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Yeah, I smile when you say that, because that's really
how I got into this area, is because I was
that person, you know, after you mentioned it, Georgia Tech
Engineering Duke NBA. I was making a six figure income,
all of the things that you were supposed to have
in life, had this huge house, you know, five thousand
(26:15):
square foot home, beautiful neighborhood, tennis court, swimming pools, all
of those things on the problem was I couldn't afford
and we were We had over one hundred thousand dollars
in personal debt.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Let's get to that. So after you left, do you
work for a series of big companies? Who you worked for?
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Yeah? So my first engineer job was with a company
called Procting Gamble. Great, great company, had great experience, and
each each one took me gave me different exposure because
even though I had an engineering degree, again, I was
still very rough. I hadn't been exposed in a corporate setting.
So it was very a very good place to learn
(26:55):
and grow. And then I went back. That's I went
back to Duke after that. So I spent six years
as an engineer. Then I went my NBA went full time.
When I finished Duke, I went to Seattle to work
for a company called Warehouser.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Warehouser is the behemoth of the forest products industry.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Yes, great company again, And it allowed me to see
how companies operate, you know, because I worked directly with
the CFO and the CEO of a fortune one hundred company.
Very very good experience. Basically I was doing mergers and acquisitions.
I was buying companies and selling off parts of a company,
(27:39):
doing the analysis for it, and really learned a lot.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
And you also there had to have learned valuations.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yes, yes, so and again I was I was. I
was good at numbers and math to science, and so
this was a really a good chance to use it
in a practical and business environments. And really after a
few years of that, thought, man, I can do this
for myself. And that's that's when we left that company
(28:09):
to go and buy a company in Atlanta. That's that's
how we kind of started the financial journey.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
So what was that company? What was the business that
you wanted to buy?
Speaker 1 (28:18):
It was a phone and card and company. You know,
they eat boxes for churches, chicken and Dunkin donuts and
cereal boxes. It's a good company. There was all kinds
of reasons why it was a bad company to buy, though,
but I ignored them. I saw all of the things
that we all see. I thought how I was going
(28:39):
to make millions of dollars and again without having making
some of the mistakes that are you know, looking back out,
I shouldn't have. So you're married to this time, I
was married about two years.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
To your school. Yeah, age, sweetheart. Yes, it's Carol, Carol, Yeah, yeah,
and you have three kids.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
At that time. We had three kids.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
That's right, all right. So Hamilton, Georgia, Tech, Rocter and
Gamble NBA do Seattle for one of the one hundred
largest companies in our country doing mergers and acquisitions. You
have made it. Yeah, and you say I've learned all
(29:19):
these I'm going to make money for myself. You go
to Atlanta, you decide you're going to buy this company.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
On top of it by a huge house with at
the same time, how big a house five thousand square
foot homes where this was in Marriott the U in
cop County Ackworth. It was an Acworth, Georgia.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yeah, big place, big.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Place, you know, mother in law suite. You never had
a guest in that house, in that suite, two.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Kitchens from I know.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
I'm still mad about that. So it still.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Sat, big house house and everybody's saying, man, you have
made it. And I read where your wife looked at
you one day and said, everybody sees all this thing.
We made it, and I can't even go to Walmart, right,
and you.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Know, so we're struggling, uh, spiritually, are marriage for the
first time and financially, so we just went through a
period of just a year of tough.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
I had him been dark man. It was were you
questioned yourself?
Speaker 1 (30:22):
I was, yes, I was questioning myself. I was questioning
my faith. I you know, I've been going to church
and hear how everything's going to work out, and then
this didn't seem to be work out. So mad at God,
you know, I was. I was just I was just struggling, embarrassed,
you know. I didn't want, you know, people to know.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
So it was so then if you're embarrassed with people
to know, who do you reach out to because you
don't even want to talk about it? I guess.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
So my wife had heard about a class at church.
She said, we need to go to this class learn
about money. And I didn't want to go. I thinking,
first of all, I'm the head of the finance commedee
at church and I got a duke NBA. All they
gonna tell me is I need the tithe and that's
that's not working. But she drug me to that class
(31:08):
and I learned that even though I had a duke nba,
I've been to church all my life, no one ever
taught me how to handle the ninety percent. The only
thing I knew was what to do with ten percent,
and the ninety percent is what got me in trouble.
So we went through this path of applying those principles.
I mean there were I didn't know the Bible we
had talked about the first, find your investments and not
(31:30):
co signing for somebody's loan. I didn't know that the
Bible had talked about that. But we went through that
process and over three years we paid off the one
hundred thousand dollars in debt. What about the big old house.
We sold the house.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
You downsize a home, and really we downsize to a home.
We moved to Carryville. We downside at home to a
three thousand square foot home. So nice place.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Carryville. Again, for everybody here, that means you moved back
from Atlanta, because Carryville is a suburb of Memphis. So
what year was that?
Speaker 1 (32:25):
That was two thousand and one.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Okay, so about twenty three years ago. You go through
this terrific period where you decide you're going to buy
a business that doesn't work out. You've hopped up credit cards,
you bought this big house, and you got humbled. But
then you fight and fight and pay off the debt.
You move back to Memphis. For what purpose do you
(32:50):
move back to Memphis at this?
Speaker 1 (32:51):
So they a warehouse. It actually hurt me back, got it,
and they moved me to run a facility here in
Memphis area.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Okay, so you've got your formal education and now you
have your life education.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Yes, yes, God hit you in the mouth with yes.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Right, and you're in Caryville. So this is twenty years
ago or so? How are you now? Where you are?
Unfold what happened?
Speaker 1 (33:21):
So after that period with Warehouser, I actually went to
work for Target in Arkansas, managed in the distribution. I
was an executive with their in their distribution center, and
that again moved forward. We downsized again. We thought, man,
if we downsize our home again, we can get out
of this debt within the last next year. So we
(33:44):
paid off. We finished paying off the debt in two
thousand and four. We moved to Arkansas, a great company again, really,
I mean really three good, good companies. But there now
we've paid off our day that we're living off very
high income, but we're living off for half of it.
(34:05):
We're making progress and our goals. But I wrote my
first book, Financial Breakthrough, to really share my story on
how we paid off one hundred thousand dollars in debt
three years. Why did you write the book? I felt
a calling to write it. I didn't want because I
was I didn't want anybody to know I was embarrassed.
(34:27):
But I felt I needed to share our story. And
I thought I didn't think anybody would buy it. I
thought maybe I knew my mama would buy it. I thought,
you know, yes, I thought maybe four or five people.
But when it came out, the first people who called
me were my friends on Wall Street that went to
Duke with me. Said, man, I thought it was just
(34:49):
me struggling financially.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
You're kidding, So it was. Now that's interesting. Yeah, you
had friends that you went to school with at Georgia
Tech that are on Wall Street now and they are
also dealing the same dealing with the same thing. The
name of your book is Financial Breakthrough, subtitle God's Plan
for Getting out of Debt, Winning The Guide to a
Life of Peace and Purpose. Can I ask you was
(35:13):
this specifically for people who had your experience or was
it just for anybody?
Speaker 1 (35:19):
So the first book financial breakthrough is really for anybody
who's dealing with financial pressure, anybody who's dealing with debt
and how to get out of it. That's what that
first one.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Well, you just to find ninety six percent of people
living in the United States today.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
And so that's the reason why my friends from Wall
Street were calling. But also I kept getting calls from
churches here in Memphis, pastors saying, Hey, can you come
and teach this at my church.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
That's interesting.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
That's when I really felt that there was a calling
for me to come back to Memphis.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
So pastors of churches recognized this financial literacy among their parishioners,
and they reached out to you to teach their congregations
basic financial owners right. Yes, that had made you feel
great that now you can share your experience in a
(36:14):
positive way.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Yeah, I thought this was a great way to really
pour back into to my community in Memphis. And I've
always had a heart from Memphis, and I realized the
first time I felt the weight of being in from
Memphis was when I went to Atlanta for Georgia Tech
and my freshman year, Andy Young was a mentor. He
(36:38):
was he was very close with the King family and
the first time I met Marty King. You know, just
the normal question, Hey, where are you from? And I
had answered this question a thousand times, but when he asked,
I said from Memphis. And it was when it came
out of my mouth first time I recognized, Oh, this
is Marty King, and he was this.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Is where his father was. Heascinated.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
He didn't make me feel guilty, okay, but I just
felt the weight of Memphis is different.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Can I ask you a question, say, now this is
one of the squirrels. Are you saying because you were
talking to Martin Luther King's son and Memphis is where
his father was assassinated, that you felt the weight of
that guilt?
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Not guilt, but I felt Memphis has a history, boy
does it? And also I felt Memphis has an opportunity.
So one of the things. And as I look back,
I thought, I think Andrew Young was always developing me
for activists. Really, yes, it's because he would He made
a comment he said one time he said, you know
(37:51):
he was he always told stories about Marto King and
the civil rights But he said the reason why the
civil rights movement was successful because one it was a movement,
it was lots of organizations getting together to push in
the same direction, he said. But the movement he did
on Montgomery, it wouldn't have happened without Montgomery being the place.
(38:16):
He said on Montgomery needed a Martin. Martin was just
a local leader. He was not somebody coming from the outside.
And so I think the whole time he's telling me
these stories.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
But as I look.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Back, he was grooming me to be a local leader
in my community. And he felt he kept saying, Memphis,
it's the right place. And so I appreciated all of
that even more so. I mean, at the time, I'm
just a twenty twenty one year old.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
You don't even know what's being planted in you.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
But as I look back, he was grooming me the
whole time, and he would have me over and and again.
I did most of the grunt work because I'm you know,
I'm just I'm driving him around, helping him to cook, cleaning,
you know, picking up laundry. I'm just doing grunt, you know,
whatever he asked me to do. But the stories that
(39:09):
he shared and the lessons and they still they stayed
with me to even to this day.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
What did Martin say when you said you were from
some curious.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
It was just I mean, we were just it was
shooting basketball. It was just it was just it was good.
That was all great, It wasn't he he didn't respond anyway.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
Just the King family. Do you know if the King family,
what does Memphis mean to the King family?
Speaker 1 (39:34):
I can now I can answer that. I just I
know they Again, I'm a young kid just around. They
were older, and Bernice was older than me, so all
of them were older.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
I just know when the when the National Civil Rights
Museum was opened, the Coreta Scott King and the family
came here and they were really proud of that place,
I believe. So, yeah, all right, so you moved back
to Memphis write this book. Now pastors are calling, yes,
(40:06):
so what now?
Speaker 1 (40:08):
So I told my wife I really feel that I'm
called to be to help people in Memphis financially. I
don't know exactly what it looked like at.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
The wife looking at your cross eye.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Well, this is the third time I've had this conversation.
So but but good. Fortunately she was on board with it.
And yeah, so, but I had there was a friend
that we had. They actually we heard of each other
in high School's guy named uh David Lenore he used
(40:41):
to be became this it's a trustee at one point.
But David called me and said, hey, let's meet up.
I think we know each other from football, and he.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Had David David played at Alabama and I played against
him in high school ball. So okay, I know David
very very well. His kids and my kids end up
playing high school ball together too, so I know David well.
David's a great guy.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
David is a great guy.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
And so he did. He ended up being the Shelby County.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Trustee and he just joined our board. Great guy. But
David said, man, I think we have the same passion
to help people financially. So we met up on get
well at at McDonald's and just had a really great
conversation and he convinced me to come back to Memphis.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Really yeah, David did. Wow. Okay, So Robert Hill of
Friends after five worked in the trustees' office for David.
It's like old homes. I met Robert. Yeah, that's it
there it is, okay.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
So I actually I went to school with Robert's brother too.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
All right, so go ahead, so there you are.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
So we so we moved back. Really just a passion
to help people move forward financially, and we started teaching
financial principles helping people get out of debt. And ironically,
when I came back, I thought I would get most
of the calls from uh Inno City churches, black churches,
(42:10):
but you know, I was getting calls from Bellevue and
Second Press.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Those are the large, family, wealthy churches in town because you.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Know, they were teaching it as well, which was which
is great. It took a while to get the momentum
in the black communities. But man, I don't know, you know,
I think I think those I'm not sure you know,
but I but I knew that there was several churches.
Some of the black churches responded quicker, like Brown Baptists
(42:43):
and Missispi Boulevard, some of the large progressive Black churches
responding faster.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
So when did you found for Memphis?
Speaker 4 (42:56):
So, uh, I guess about because you're doing this work, yes,
but you're right now, you're just a dude doing some
work at the beginning, right, You're a dude that wrote
a book, has a heart for the city, and you're
just saying, you know, let's work together to try to
teach a financial literacy where it needs to be taught,
but you don't.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Only have a thing yet.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
So I've been helping churches for about ten years and
doing well at that and I got a call from
New Direction. I was going over to meet with their team.
So I'm leaving a church.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
A New Direction is another church.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
I'm leaving Carville, an affluent area, and I'm driving to
Hickory Hill, which is a area with a lot of
pay day long stores, a lot of distress communities. So
I'm driving down Winchester and again I drive in Caryville.
Is not one pay day long store, drive through Germantown,
(43:52):
not one. The closer I get to New Direction, the
matter I get Because the closer I get it. They're
payday loan title loan places everywhere. And I was just
bad by the time I got to I was. I
get to where where a New Direction. There's two of
the best churches in Memphis right there, world Overcomings New Directions.
(44:15):
I stand outside in the parking lot and there are
four predatory loan places that.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
You can see from the parking lot with the church.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Yes, and so they literally go into the church to
pray and come out to get prayed on. I was so,
I was so mad and angry that I could barely
talk with this deed.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Wow, Travis, that is a great line. They go into
the churches to pray and they come out of the churches.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
To get prayed one So I walked away saying, we
got to do something, and I started talking to I
called David Leonora, called friends, and said we got to
do something. And we went through a lot of conversations
and landed on you know, how do we get the
banks involved? Because these payday predator loan places are baff
(45:04):
of banks, They're baff for the community, they baff for everybody.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
And that concludes part one of my conversation with Travis Moody,
and you don't want to miss part two. That's now
I've able to listened to as we're about to dive
deep into what Ford Memphis is doing to address this
massive problem of predatory lending. Together, guys, we can change
this country, but it starts with you. I'll see in
(45:33):
part two.
A drive in Caryville. There's not one payday long store
drive through Germantown, not one. The closer I get to
new direction, the matter I get because the closer I
get there, payday loan title loan places everywhere, and I
was just bad by the time I got to I was.
I get to where a new direction. There's two of
(00:28):
the best churches in Memphis right there, world overcomers, New directions.
I stand outside in the parking lot and there are
four predatory loan places that.
Speaker 2 (00:38):
You can see from the parking lot with the church.
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yes, and so they literally go into the church to
pray and come out to get prayed over.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Welcome to an army of normal folks. I'm Bill Courtney.
I'm a normal guy. I'm a husband, I'm a father,
I'm an entrepreneur, and I'm a football coach and inner
City Memphis. And that last part it's somehow it's led
to an oscar for the film about our team. That
movie's called Undefeated. Y'all. I believe our country's problems are
(01:13):
never going to be solved by a bunch of fancy
people and nice suits using big words that nobody ever
uses on CNN and Fox, but rather by an army
of normal folks. Y'all. That is us. That's you and
me seeing a place in need and saying, you know what,
maybe I can help. That's what Travis Moody, the voice
(01:35):
you just heard, has done. Travis and his nonprofit Ford
Memphis are fighting to outcompete predatory lenders that are really
taking advantage of the most vulnerable Memphians. As you're about
to hear, this is not even close to just a
Memphis problem. It's literally everywhere. I cannot wait for you
(01:56):
to meet Travis right after these brief messages from ours
are general sponsors. Travis Moody's in the house, the founder
(02:21):
and CEO AFFD Memphis, Travis good Sie. You know, most
times I say how'd you get here? Because folks are
coming from Indiana or Chicago or Los Angeles or wherever.
But Travis Moody is a Memphis fella. So how you
got here is you probably woke up in your house
and broke across town exactly right. Yeah, who you got
(02:43):
over your shoulder there? Who's with us today? Alex Oh,
this is Sherman, this is his building. I know, I
just wanted we got a guest I thought we'd say hello,
It's just it's this building. That's why I said, he's
your guest to the show. Here you are, what's up right?
(03:06):
That's right. Well, he's a guest to the show. We
may be in his building, but he's a guest in
this place, that's right. So that's it. So it's a
Memphis thing today, and Ford Memphis is something really near
and dear to my heart. And we're going to talk
(03:26):
about that. But first, Travis, you started here, been all
around the world and ended up back here. Kind of
tell us how you grew up in your track. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:39):
I grew up actually not too far from here, just
right over the oh the highway off of Alsier Road,
went to Hamilton High School. Love Hamilton absolutely. My mom
still lives in the AlSi community, so I really love
that community.
Speaker 2 (03:56):
So this is home. So you must have been all
right in football in high school.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
I enjoyed playing football. It's fortunate to get a scholarship
to Georgia Tech to play football.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
Yeah. So what position were we?
Speaker 1 (04:11):
I played nose guard?
Speaker 2 (04:12):
You a noseguard, you were a shade or straight up zero?
Speaker 1 (04:15):
Well then it was a straight up it was we played.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
Because you're playing five man front. Yeah, so you're used
to taking on double teams.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
That's that was my only job.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
Split the double.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
Just don't let the guys get out to the lineback
to keep them off the linebackers.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Split the double. That's that's it. Man. I spent thirty
years trying to find some kid that could do that,
and they're rare. So that means you're tough. That means
you're selfless, and that means you you'll take on two
on one to let your buddy behind you win. That's
the way I look at noseguards. So Georgia Tech's a
good school, man. I mean, what was your degree in
(04:53):
industrin engineer, Travis. I mean growing up in kind of
the inner city Memphis and back then, I think that
the community around Hamilton was still a pretty decent community, right,
And but you got at Georgia Tech got an engineering degree.
(05:14):
I mean, that's that's that's arriving.
Speaker 1 (05:19):
Yeah, I think it was when I went to school.
I mean, Hamilton did a good job of putting the
emphasis on me academically because I just wanted to play football.
But the coaches talked about, you know, football is just
a way to get you a better life, and they
really focused on me getting a degree. And when the
(05:39):
colleges started to recruit me, the Georgia Tech came and
I had never heard of Georgia Tech. I never met
any engineer, but my teachers pushed me to say, you
know you're good in bath and science. We think engineering
would be a good fit for you. And all they
did was they took out a magazine to show the
(06:00):
average salaries engineers compared to other people, and I think
it may have been like twenty eight thousand dollars a
year and it was the highest one. I said, just
sign me up for that good. That's fine. So I
had never met an engineer, but I had good counselors
and good teachers that said, we think this would be
a good good fit for you.
Speaker 2 (06:19):
So you weren't just a meatthead, nose guard and pretty
bright kid wanted to find the future.
Speaker 1 (06:24):
Yes, and and again I had teachers and people in
my life, the coaches that pushed me to they gave
me a vision for my life.
Speaker 2 (06:33):
What did what did your neighborhood and high school in
the eighties? I guess this was the eighties.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
Yes, I graduated in eighty five.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Nineteen eighty five. Okay, you're in a the same age,
so what did what did that community in that world
look like in the mid eighties.
Speaker 1 (06:49):
So we came I came in and in the bussing period,
so we were bussed out of our neighborhood in middle school,
so I was we were bussed to Whitdeal your high school,
and in that time the area in hick or Hill
Woodeale was still primarily majority white. So we had a
very diverse junior high school experience and really loved it.
(07:12):
You know, obviously it was a household getting up earlier
and getting on a bus, but uh, we had a
really good experience. Both my wife and I both were
bussed to Woodale Junior High.
Speaker 2 (07:21):
School and then for high school you went to Hamilton.
Speaker 1 (07:26):
Yes, my neighborhood of school was Hamilton, and again just
a really good experience. Then many of my teachers lived
in my neighborhood. I had teachers that lived on my street.
So if I didn't do right in school, you know,
the last thing I wanted was my teacher telling my parents.
Speaker 2 (07:44):
So everybody, yes, you know, I know this is not
this is when I hear what you're saying, I do
actually think it applies to some of what we're going
to talk to with regard to Ford Memphis. But I
just it saddens me because I think we've lost a
(08:08):
lot of what you're talking about in our inner cities.
I just don't know that communities have kids going to
neighborhood schools with teachers and people working in and around
the community, living in the community, and kids and families
feeling safe to share experiences like that anymore. What do
(08:31):
you think?
Speaker 1 (08:32):
Yeah, that's well, one of the reasons why I like
the ass of community because I do see some.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Of that that's still going back.
Speaker 1 (08:38):
Many of my classmates are moving back into the community.
Speaker 2 (08:41):
Oh that's cool.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
My mom still lives there. My mother in law lives
in the community. We have two properties in the community.
We're looking at how to move back. We have a
propit on the same street with three of our classmates.
And so we think that this, you know, we think
there's an opportunity that Memphis has that a lot of
places don't have, where there's a chance to really invest
(09:08):
in ourselves. We think there's a lot of people who
care about Memphis, and we think we're part of that.
We love Memphis, and we want to make it better
and we think there are a lot of people that
we can collaborate with.
Speaker 2 (09:21):
I've done a lot of work in North Memphis. My
business is in North Memphis. I've coached for years and
years in North Memphis. And at one time, and for
those listeners not from Memphis, which is the vast majority
of our listeners, North Memphis is you can't really go
(09:43):
west because you've got the Mississippi River. So you've got
North Memphis, South Memphis, and East Memphis, and then in
the middle you have downtown in Midtown and those I
would say are the five general areas of the city.
And then each of those areas have pockets. So in
North Memphis, three of those pockets are New Chicago, Smoky City,
(10:06):
and Green Law, which is where my business is surrounded by.
And back in the seventies and eighties, there was Firestone,
there was Harvester, there were grocery stores, there were places
to shop, and there were all these really pretty good
playing paying blue collar jobs. And then due to a
(10:30):
lot of factors and including a lot of destruction that
happened in the early seventies after the assassination of Martin
Luther King, a lot of offshoring of blue collar jobs.
Companies like Harvester moved away or folded up, Caterpillar moved away,
(10:51):
folded up Firestone, which was massive, folded up, and those
that could left that couldn't had to stay. And three
decades later, what was once a really thriving blue collar there,
largely African American communities with a lot of pride surrounding
(11:15):
the schools and the neighborhoods, has just year by year
by year dilapidated, really, and you end up with food deserts,
work deserts, and when the money leaves, the support for
the school and PTA and so it's just this And
I don't think that's a Memphis story. I think that's
(11:37):
an urban story and a lot of cities across the country.
But what happens is people in those situations end up
financially desperate. And it concerns me because if we don't
redevelop those areas, re educate those areas, and help people
in those areas rise above those circle ccumstances, what happens
(12:01):
to our tax space, but what happens to our society,
what happens to our culture? Do you see that in
the work you're doing.
Speaker 1 (12:09):
Yeah, what we see is many of those communities are
have people under financial distress, and so those are the
very people that get prayed on. Communities you talked about
is where all of the payday loan, the predator lending happens.
I mean, it doesn't happen in Caruville to Germantown.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
They're about you fill in Germantown or suburbs of Memphis
that are very affluent.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
This absolutely there's not one payday loan store in either
of those communities.
Speaker 2 (12:36):
Okay, so we'll get to that. So Georgia Tech, then
you go to do can get your NBA right, I mean, dude,
Georgia Tech undergraduate and the duke NBA. That's impressive. I
mean you were on the way.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Yeah, yes, I think that was. I had a lot
of good mentoring when I One of the reasons why
I went to Georgia Tech was and I thought it
was a great place to grow. And and again I was,
you know, coming out of South Memphis that was very
rough and a lot of things I didn't have exposure to.
So but it was a great start. And you know,
(13:19):
we had had a good coach and when they recruited me.
One of the reasons why I went because again I
wanted to play big time football. But at the time
the coach there knew that there were some other things
that you know, wasn't that were important to me. He
had the the mayor at the time, the mayor of Atlanta,
to call my parents and that was a big selling
(13:41):
point because he was Scyning Andrew Young. He was part
of the Civil rights movement, so my parents knew him.
He was second to Martin Luther King and as far
as leadership in the civil rights movement, really he became
an ambassador and later and at this time he was
the mayor of Atlanta, uh and very well known in
the black community. And so when he called my parents
(14:03):
and said, well, if you send your son to Atlanta,
I'll take care of him.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Well, gosh, what else do you want?
Speaker 1 (14:08):
That was a great and uh and so that I enjoyed.
It was a you know, and being around and he
and he did he he took me in I would
you know, he would take me into his home and
be around him and his family, and you know, I'd
had an internship in his office and but man, it
was just great exposure.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
So you ever heard of a guy in Memphis named
Robert Hill. Yes, I know Robert. So Robert spent a
guest on the show with with the thing he's doing
called Friends after Five. And when when you said, I
grew up in South Memphis and there were things I
just never heard of, I'd never been exposed to. What
(14:53):
Robert's doing with Friends after Five is he thinks access
and exposure is the are the two greatest limitations to
the growth of the black middle class, Because how do
you elevate yourself if you don't have access to the
elevator or exposure to people who, if you do good work,
(15:16):
have the ability to help you elevate yourself.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
Yes, I agree with that one.
Speaker 2 (15:20):
All right. So what he does with Friends after Five
is he sets up meetings after five and he brings
in young black graduates and professionals from HBCUs and all
over Memphis. And he does it. He's doing it many
other cities, not just Memphis. And then he convinces both
black and white middle aged business owners and they simply
(15:46):
gather for two and a half three hours somewhere and
they just get to know each other, just friends after five.
And then what it does is it opens folks eyes
to the opportunities and the possibilities that exist outside of
in your case, South Memphis. Right. What it also does
(16:08):
is opens the business world's ideas too. These are some
whip smart, young, aggressive, bright professionals, and if we just
give them an opportunity, they're gonna thrive and through friends.
After five, he says he can help grow the middle
class just by no freebies, no nothing, just exposure and access. Right.
(16:35):
And when I hear you say I grew up in
South Memphis, I don't know nothing about Georgia Tech. I'd
never met an engineer. That's exposure and access, I say.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
Just I'll tell you. So when I got to Georgia Tech,
I took my you know, because again I want I
wanted to be an engineer, and I signed up. One
of my first classes was this computer class, programming basic computer.
That's what it was called. Well, I thought basic computer men,
that they were gonna teach me basic. I had never
(17:04):
seen a computer in my life, so I thought, they're
gonna teach me what a computer is, how to turn
it on? And the professor said, how many people have
written line programs or lines of a hundred and you know,
people raise their hands and how many written a five
hundred lines? A few of other people raise a hand.
I was waiting for him to say, who don't know
(17:25):
how to turn.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
On the computer?
Speaker 3 (17:29):
That never happened, And there quiet, I've sitting there. Everybody's
staying with up for me, So let me ask them.
Did that make you feel insecure?
Speaker 1 (17:41):
It made me realize this was gonna be a lot
harder than I thought, and I needed help. I knew
I needed uh the great thing in the athletic department
had tutors available, but I didn't. I had to work
a lot harder. It was, and it was no way
around it. I just had to work harder because I
was It wasn't I wasn't smart enough. I just didn't
(18:03):
have the exposure as my classmates had computers in their
dorm room. I'd never seen a personal computer. I had
to learn. But I so that hard work exposure. It
really helped me to kind of prepel.
Speaker 2 (18:22):
For and now a few messages from our general sponsors.
But first we've launched a new written series called Normal
(18:46):
Folks Wisdom. I think Alex came up with that. Did
you come up with that? And an army of Normal
Dead Folks.
Speaker 1 (18:52):
People have strong feelings on that one already, so we'll
see what they think about this.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
I don't know about these titles, but anyway, we've got
this thing called normal Folks Wisdom. Come on, you like it.
I do like it, Actually I like it better than
dead folks. But whatever. What normal Folks Wisdom is is
it's the heroic normal folks we interview and when they
share poignant, cutting, practical, and oftentimes hilarious wisdom with us.
(19:20):
So we want to make it digestible for Army members,
especially if you don't get a chance to listen to
every single episode with shame on you, you should or
all the way through. So we think everybody can find
it valuable. The best way to start getting normal Folks
wisdom is to follow us on Instagram at Army of
(19:44):
Normal Folks or by signing up to join the Army
at normal Folks dot us. As we're going to start
emailing these things out as well. There's some fancy folks
with some wisdom, but normal folks got a whole bunch
of it and are often overlooked. I hope you'll check
it out. We'll be right back. One of my very
(20:24):
dearest friends in the world is named Mike Ray. Mike
Ray played at Arkansas State for Larry Lacewell. If Mike
had a little bit bigger size, he would have played
the NFL. He was one of those guys that was
an undersized tackle but was very effective. Right he helped.
He was my offensive line coach for four years, and
(20:45):
dear friend. His children and my children remained dear friends.
They done to each other's weddings and all that. When
Mike started coaching with me at Manassas my third year,
his first year there, about halfway through the season, really
started to recognize deficiencies in what we would consider basics.
(21:13):
So one day he asked a couple of players, Hey, man,
how much do you think so and so's grandmama's house costs?
And folks twenty thousand dollars? He said, okay, how much
(21:35):
do you think my car costs? And he drove a
five year old suburban ten thousand dollars. All right, how
much do you think my house costs? And now he'd
taken all his offensive linement at his house, swim in
the pool and heat. He did it all the time
he invested in him. Now his house was in Germantown.
(21:55):
It was sixty three hundred square feet thousand.
Speaker 1 (22:03):
I want to buy that house me too.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
I'll line up by ten of them. But the point
was five twenty thousand and thirty thousand. They knew the
house was more expensive the car, and the bigger house
is more expensive the smaller house. They could not. They
had absolutely no idea what things cost in the world.
Then he did another thing, and he said, if I
(22:29):
give you two hundred dollars, and for the week, you
have to do these things, and you want these shoes,
and these shoes cost one hundred and sixty dollars, and
I give you two hundred, can you afford them? Yeah?
Heck yeah, I can afford those shoes. I got two
hundred one sixty. Well, that leaves forty. Can you eat
(22:54):
and provide basic necessities for yourself over the week with
forty dollars? I don't know. You know. The point is,
if it's in your pocket, you can afford it. But
you're not thinking about anything else. And through those two questions,
(23:14):
Mike grew to understand and tell me Bill, we got
to start teaching basic financial literacy. These kids, they have
no idea how money savings through work interest, anything works
and it's because their parents didn't know and they were
(23:38):
never again, they never had access or exposure to a
savings account, a checking account how things worked. And it
was devastating to me. I'm a I'm a football coach.
I don't I don't teach in the school. And we
started trying to have these conversations. But it was devastating
to me because what happens even if these kids do
(23:59):
reach so level of success, how are they going to
maintain it when they don't even know how to act
with money.
Speaker 1 (24:04):
Well, what we find is that, man, there's a different
mindset when it comes to poverty and middle class values.
And I didn't know that until we As we start
coaching people who are in that came out of poverty,
(24:25):
even if they have high income, there's still a poverty
mindset that we have to help.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Overcome.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
And because every financial success is based off of middle
class values.
Speaker 2 (24:38):
We talk about it all the time. These folks that
do make it athletically and are paid millions of dollars. Right,
people don't understand there is income tax. In most of
the states, there's a state income tax that agent's pulling
(24:59):
three twelve percent, and a guy that's that comes from
an area where he has no financial literacy. Maybe he
does sign a twelve million dollar contract and get a
six hundred thousand signing bonus, and he feels like he's
got to help his mama. And the cousins show up,
and everybody wants a new car, and everybody wants shoes,
(25:21):
and then everybody's hanging around him, and then we go,
look at this idiot. He's twenty eight. He had all
that money and he's broken. What a dummy. And it
disgusts me when we talk about guys like that because
nobody came alongside, or very few come alongside to help
(25:43):
support what to do with that wealth, and people don't
understand what comes out of it before it ever gets
to him in the first place.
Speaker 1 (25:51):
Yeah, I smile when you say that, because that's really
how I got into this area, is because I was
that person, you know, after you mentioned it, Georgia Tech
Engineering Duke NBA. I was making a six figure income,
all of the things that you were supposed to have
in life, had this huge house, you know, five thousand
(26:15):
square foot home, beautiful neighborhood, tennis court, swimming pools, all
of those things on the problem was I couldn't afford
and we were We had over one hundred thousand dollars
in personal debt.
Speaker 2 (26:28):
Let's get to that. So after you left, do you
work for a series of big companies? Who you worked for?
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Yeah? So my first engineer job was with a company
called Procting Gamble. Great, great company, had great experience, and
each each one took me gave me different exposure because
even though I had an engineering degree, again, I was
still very rough. I hadn't been exposed in a corporate setting.
So it was very a very good place to learn
(26:55):
and grow. And then I went back. That's I went
back to Duke after that. So I spent six years
as an engineer. Then I went my NBA went full time.
When I finished Duke, I went to Seattle to work
for a company called Warehouser.
Speaker 2 (27:10):
Warehouser is the behemoth of the forest products industry.
Speaker 1 (27:15):
Yes, great company again, And it allowed me to see
how companies operate, you know, because I worked directly with
the CFO and the CEO of a fortune one hundred company.
Very very good experience. Basically I was doing mergers and acquisitions.
I was buying companies and selling off parts of a company,
(27:39):
doing the analysis for it, and really learned a lot.
Speaker 2 (27:43):
And you also there had to have learned valuations.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yes, yes, so and again I was I was. I
was good at numbers and math to science, and so
this was a really a good chance to use it
in a practical and business environments. And really after a
few years of that, thought, man, I can do this
for myself. And that's that's when we left that company
(28:09):
to go and buy a company in Atlanta. That's that's
how we kind of started the financial journey.
Speaker 2 (28:15):
So what was that company? What was the business that
you wanted to buy?
Speaker 1 (28:18):
It was a phone and card and company. You know,
they eat boxes for churches, chicken and Dunkin donuts and
cereal boxes. It's a good company. There was all kinds
of reasons why it was a bad company to buy, though,
but I ignored them. I saw all of the things
that we all see. I thought how I was going
(28:39):
to make millions of dollars and again without having making
some of the mistakes that are you know, looking back out,
I shouldn't have. So you're married to this time, I
was married about two years.
Speaker 2 (28:50):
To your school. Yeah, age, sweetheart. Yes, it's Carol, Carol, Yeah, yeah,
and you have three kids.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
At that time. We had three kids.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
That's right, all right. So Hamilton, Georgia, Tech, Rocter and
Gamble NBA do Seattle for one of the one hundred
largest companies in our country doing mergers and acquisitions. You
have made it. Yeah, and you say I've learned all
(29:19):
these I'm going to make money for myself. You go
to Atlanta, you decide you're going to buy this company.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
On top of it by a huge house with at
the same time, how big a house five thousand square
foot homes where this was in Marriott the U in
cop County Ackworth. It was an Acworth, Georgia.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yeah, big place, big.
Speaker 1 (29:40):
Place, you know, mother in law suite. You never had
a guest in that house, in that suite, two.
Speaker 2 (29:47):
Kitchens from I know.
Speaker 1 (29:50):
I'm still mad about that. So it still.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
Sat, big house house and everybody's saying, man, you have
made it. And I read where your wife looked at
you one day and said, everybody sees all this thing.
We made it, and I can't even go to Walmart, right,
and you.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Know, so we're struggling, uh, spiritually, are marriage for the
first time and financially, so we just went through a
period of just a year of tough.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
I had him been dark man. It was were you
questioned yourself?
Speaker 1 (30:22):
I was, yes, I was questioning myself. I was questioning
my faith. I you know, I've been going to church
and hear how everything's going to work out, and then
this didn't seem to be work out. So mad at God,
you know, I was. I was just I was just struggling, embarrassed,
you know. I didn't want, you know, people to know.
Speaker 2 (30:39):
So it was so then if you're embarrassed with people
to know, who do you reach out to because you
don't even want to talk about it? I guess.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
So my wife had heard about a class at church.
She said, we need to go to this class learn
about money. And I didn't want to go. I thinking,
first of all, I'm the head of the finance commedee
at church and I got a duke NBA. All they
gonna tell me is I need the tithe and that's
that's not working. But she drug me to that class
(31:08):
and I learned that even though I had a duke nba,
I've been to church all my life, no one ever
taught me how to handle the ninety percent. The only
thing I knew was what to do with ten percent,
and the ninety percent is what got me in trouble.
So we went through this path of applying those principles.
I mean there were I didn't know the Bible we
had talked about the first, find your investments and not
(31:30):
co signing for somebody's loan. I didn't know that the
Bible had talked about that. But we went through that
process and over three years we paid off the one
hundred thousand dollars in debt. What about the big old house.
We sold the house.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
We'll be right back.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
You downsize a home, and really we downsize to a home.
We moved to Carryville. We downside at home to a
three thousand square foot home. So nice place.
Speaker 2 (32:16):
Carryville. Again, for everybody here, that means you moved back
from Atlanta, because Carryville is a suburb of Memphis. So
what year was that?
Speaker 1 (32:25):
That was two thousand and one.
Speaker 2 (32:28):
Okay, so about twenty three years ago. You go through
this terrific period where you decide you're going to buy
a business that doesn't work out. You've hopped up credit cards,
you bought this big house, and you got humbled. But
then you fight and fight and pay off the debt.
You move back to Memphis. For what purpose do you
(32:50):
move back to Memphis at this?
Speaker 1 (32:51):
So they a warehouse. It actually hurt me back, got it,
and they moved me to run a facility here in
Memphis area.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Okay, so you've got your formal education and now you
have your life education.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Yes, yes, God hit you in the mouth with yes.
Speaker 2 (33:11):
Right, and you're in Caryville. So this is twenty years
ago or so? How are you now? Where you are?
Unfold what happened?
Speaker 1 (33:21):
So after that period with Warehouser, I actually went to
work for Target in Arkansas, managed in the distribution. I
was an executive with their in their distribution center, and
that again moved forward. We downsized again. We thought, man,
if we downsize our home again, we can get out
of this debt within the last next year. So we
(33:44):
paid off. We finished paying off the debt in two
thousand and four. We moved to Arkansas, a great company again, really,
I mean really three good, good companies. But there now
we've paid off our day that we're living off very
high income, but we're living off for half of it.
(34:05):
We're making progress and our goals. But I wrote my
first book, Financial Breakthrough, to really share my story on
how we paid off one hundred thousand dollars in debt
three years. Why did you write the book? I felt
a calling to write it. I didn't want because I
was I didn't want anybody to know I was embarrassed.
(34:27):
But I felt I needed to share our story. And
I thought I didn't think anybody would buy it. I
thought maybe I knew my mama would buy it. I thought,
you know, yes, I thought maybe four or five people.
But when it came out, the first people who called
me were my friends on Wall Street that went to
Duke with me. Said, man, I thought it was just
(34:49):
me struggling financially.
Speaker 2 (34:50):
You're kidding, So it was. Now that's interesting. Yeah, you
had friends that you went to school with at Georgia
Tech that are on Wall Street now and they are
also dealing the same dealing with the same thing. The
name of your book is Financial Breakthrough, subtitle God's Plan
for Getting out of Debt, Winning The Guide to a
Life of Peace and Purpose. Can I ask you was
(35:13):
this specifically for people who had your experience or was
it just for anybody?
Speaker 1 (35:19):
So the first book financial breakthrough is really for anybody
who's dealing with financial pressure, anybody who's dealing with debt
and how to get out of it. That's what that
first one.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Well, you just to find ninety six percent of people
living in the United States today.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
And so that's the reason why my friends from Wall
Street were calling. But also I kept getting calls from
churches here in Memphis, pastors saying, Hey, can you come
and teach this at my church.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
That's interesting.
Speaker 1 (35:48):
That's when I really felt that there was a calling
for me to come back to Memphis.
Speaker 2 (35:52):
So pastors of churches recognized this financial literacy among their parishioners,
and they reached out to you to teach their congregations
basic financial owners right. Yes, that had made you feel
great that now you can share your experience in a
(36:14):
positive way.
Speaker 1 (36:15):
Yeah, I thought this was a great way to really
pour back into to my community in Memphis. And I've
always had a heart from Memphis, and I realized the
first time I felt the weight of being in from
Memphis was when I went to Atlanta for Georgia Tech
and my freshman year, Andy Young was a mentor. He
(36:38):
was he was very close with the King family and
the first time I met Marty King. You know, just
the normal question, Hey, where are you from? And I
had answered this question a thousand times, but when he asked,
I said from Memphis. And it was when it came
out of my mouth first time I recognized, Oh, this
is Marty King, and he was this.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Is where his father was. Heascinated.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
He didn't make me feel guilty, okay, but I just
felt the weight of Memphis is different.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Can I ask you a question, say, now this is
one of the squirrels. Are you saying because you were
talking to Martin Luther King's son and Memphis is where
his father was assassinated, that you felt the weight of
that guilt?
Speaker 1 (37:28):
Not guilt, but I felt Memphis has a history, boy
does it? And also I felt Memphis has an opportunity.
So one of the things. And as I look back,
I thought, I think Andrew Young was always developing me
for activists. Really, yes, it's because he would He made
a comment he said one time he said, you know
(37:51):
he was he always told stories about Marto King and
the civil rights But he said the reason why the
civil rights movement was successful because one it was a movement,
it was lots of organizations getting together to push in
the same direction, he said. But the movement he did
on Montgomery, it wouldn't have happened without Montgomery being the place.
(38:16):
He said on Montgomery needed a Martin. Martin was just
a local leader. He was not somebody coming from the outside.
And so I think the whole time he's telling me
these stories.
Speaker 2 (38:29):
But as I look.
Speaker 1 (38:29):
Back, he was grooming me to be a local leader
in my community. And he felt he kept saying, Memphis,
it's the right place. And so I appreciated all of
that even more so. I mean, at the time, I'm
just a twenty twenty one year old.
Speaker 2 (38:46):
You don't even know what's being planted in you.
Speaker 1 (38:49):
But as I look back, he was grooming me the
whole time, and he would have me over and and again.
I did most of the grunt work because I'm you know,
I'm just I'm driving him around, helping him to cook, cleaning,
you know, picking up laundry. I'm just doing grunt, you know,
whatever he asked me to do. But the stories that
(39:09):
he shared and the lessons and they still they stayed
with me to even to this day.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
What did Martin say when you said you were from
some curious.
Speaker 1 (39:17):
It was just I mean, we were just it was
shooting basketball. It was just it was just it was good.
That was all great, It wasn't he he didn't respond anyway.
Speaker 2 (39:25):
Just the King family. Do you know if the King family,
what does Memphis mean to the King family?
Speaker 1 (39:34):
I can now I can answer that. I just I
know they Again, I'm a young kid just around. They
were older, and Bernice was older than me, so all
of them were older.
Speaker 2 (39:45):
I just know when the when the National Civil Rights
Museum was opened, the Coreta Scott King and the family
came here and they were really proud of that place,
I believe. So, yeah, all right, so you moved back
to Memphis write this book. Now pastors are calling, yes,
(40:06):
so what now?
Speaker 1 (40:08):
So I told my wife I really feel that I'm
called to be to help people in Memphis financially. I
don't know exactly what it looked like at.
Speaker 2 (40:17):
The wife looking at your cross eye.
Speaker 1 (40:20):
Well, this is the third time I've had this conversation.
So but but good. Fortunately she was on board with it.
And yeah, so, but I had there was a friend
that we had. They actually we heard of each other
in high School's guy named uh David Lenore he used
(40:41):
to be became this it's a trustee at one point.
But David called me and said, hey, let's meet up.
I think we know each other from football, and he.
Speaker 2 (40:53):
Had David David played at Alabama and I played against
him in high school ball. So okay, I know David
very very well. His kids and my kids end up
playing high school ball together too, so I know David well.
David's a great guy.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
David is a great guy.
Speaker 2 (41:07):
And so he did. He ended up being the Shelby County.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
Trustee and he just joined our board. Great guy. But
David said, man, I think we have the same passion
to help people financially. So we met up on get
well at at McDonald's and just had a really great
conversation and he convinced me to come back to Memphis.
Speaker 2 (41:28):
Really yeah, David did. Wow. Okay, So Robert Hill of
Friends after five worked in the trustees' office for David.
It's like old homes. I met Robert. Yeah, that's it
there it is, okay.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
So I actually I went to school with Robert's brother too.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
All right, so go ahead, so there you are.
Speaker 1 (41:47):
So we so we moved back. Really just a passion
to help people move forward financially, and we started teaching
financial principles helping people get out of debt. And ironically,
when I came back, I thought I would get most
of the calls from uh Inno City churches, black churches,
(42:10):
but you know, I was getting calls from Bellevue and
Second Press.
Speaker 2 (42:14):
Those are the large, family, wealthy churches in town because you.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Know, they were teaching it as well, which was which
is great. It took a while to get the momentum
in the black communities. But man, I don't know, you know,
I think I think those I'm not sure you know,
but I but I knew that there was several churches.
Some of the black churches responded quicker, like Brown Baptists
(42:43):
and Missispi Boulevard, some of the large progressive Black churches
responding faster.
Speaker 2 (42:52):
So when did you found for Memphis?
Speaker 4 (42:56):
So, uh, I guess about because you're doing this work, yes,
but you're right now, you're just a dude doing some
work at the beginning, right, You're a dude that wrote
a book, has a heart for the city, and you're
just saying, you know, let's work together to try to
teach a financial literacy where it needs to be taught,
but you don't.
Speaker 2 (43:15):
Only have a thing yet.
Speaker 1 (43:18):
So I've been helping churches for about ten years and
doing well at that and I got a call from
New Direction. I was going over to meet with their team.
So I'm leaving a church.
Speaker 2 (43:29):
A New Direction is another church.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
I'm leaving Carville, an affluent area, and I'm driving to
Hickory Hill, which is a area with a lot of
pay day long stores, a lot of distress communities. So
I'm driving down Winchester and again I drive in Caryville.
Is not one pay day long store, drive through Germantown,
(43:52):
not one. The closer I get to New Direction, the
matter I get Because the closer I get it. They're
payday loan title loan places everywhere. And I was just
bad by the time I got to I was. I
get to where where a New Direction. There's two of
the best churches in Memphis right there, world Overcomings New Directions.
(44:15):
I stand outside in the parking lot and there are
four predatory loan places that.
Speaker 2 (44:20):
You can see from the parking lot with the church.
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Yes, and so they literally go into the church to
pray and come out to get prayed on. I was so,
I was so mad and angry that I could barely
talk with this deed.
Speaker 2 (44:34):
Wow, Travis, that is a great line. They go into
the churches to pray and they come out of the churches.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
To get prayed one So I walked away saying, we
got to do something, and I started talking to I
called David Leonora, called friends, and said we got to
do something. And we went through a lot of conversations
and landed on you know, how do we get the
banks involved? Because these payday predator loan places are baff
(45:04):
of banks, They're baff for the community, they baff for everybody.
Speaker 2 (45:11):
And that concludes part one of my conversation with Travis Moody,
and you don't want to miss part two. That's now
I've able to listened to as we're about to dive
deep into what Ford Memphis is doing to address this
massive problem of predatory lending. Together, guys, we can change
this country, but it starts with you. I'll see in
(45:33):
part two.
Host
Bill Courtney
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