December 12, 2024 • 59 mins
If anyone can relate to being on a hit show and in the spotlight like the Glee cast, it's One Tree Hill's Sophia Bush!
The actress, philanthropist, and advocate joins Jenna and Kevin to chat about their similar experiences working on mega-hit shows, why being on OTH almost drove her to become a recluse, and who 'Brooke Davis' would be best friends with at McKinley High!
Plus, Sophia shares major scoop on the One Tree Hill reboot, which is now in 'phase two.' You have to check this one out to get all the dirt!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
And that's what you really missed with Jenna and Kevin
an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Welcome to you, and that's what you really miss podcasts.
Special guest appearance. We have a fellow actress, high schooler
on a hit TV show for nine years, nine nine.
(00:31):
She needs no introduction. Sophia Bush is here. We're so
thrilled we finally got her in her busy schedule to
come on our show and gab with us about very
crazy experience. Yes, it's similar phenomenon TV show series experience.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
And she's an inspiration in terms of how you know,
being able to look back and understand the crazy things
we experienced and lived through. And she's also just a
great support system, a great friend, and a great human.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
So here's Sophia Bush.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Hi Guary, Welcome, Hi Sophia, Hi cuties. It's good to
see you. Why are you.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Good on behalf of the people. Thank you for the
work you've done this year, you know, trying to get
things to go in the right direction. Just appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
You really do it. You really out there.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
I'm trying. I think it's weird to sort of see
what we're up against and it's like, yeah, it's pretty
tough for like low old humans who just want other
humans to like have healthcare and be able to have
families and stuff. It's hard for us to compete with
like the billion dollar people, not even like the industries
(01:49):
they build, like the people who have the books.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
But it's it's cool.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yeah, people voted. We will figure it out.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
We will.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
Yeah, the whole like surge and uh oh can I
change my vote Google searches. I was like, wow, yeah,
that is oh boy.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
And then I part of me just wishes not.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
That he would take a call from me, because I
think he probably views us as mortal enemies. But part
of me just like wants to call Mitch McConnell and
be like, so when you boast about the forty year
plan to underfund education, it's just been for this, right.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Yeah, to be that unscrupulous. I'm like, my nightmare is
if I'm having a bad day and I'm not so
cheery to the person at the checkout at the grocery
store that I'm like, what if I didn't contribute well
to that person's day? What if I was neutral? Oh
my god, could you imagine if I contributed negatively to
this person's day, and I like, I lose sleep over
it for two days, and I'm like, oh, you want
(02:54):
to you want to take healthcare away from everyone in
your state And you're like that feels fair.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Can sleep at night?
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Oh yeah, and sleep and just somehow profit off of
it and get lots of other people to agree with
you for forty years, to slowly chip away at people's
freedoms and rights and ability to live.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
It is really crazy.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
It is Wow.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
A side note, I do I have thoughts and would
like to sidebar with you at another time. I would
love that talk about some things for the future.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
I would love that. It's mostly all that I have
been doing, mostly like this on zoom. And then yesterday
I went for like a little kiki at a friend's
house with everyone I canvassed with for a year. And yeah,
the only other reason I've left the house was to
see Wicked because I was like, oh, just all the
(03:47):
queers and the witches. I need it, obviously, I need
to do in a room full of musical theater people.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yes, yes, just for and it.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
It felt magical, didn't it.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
It was so perfect.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
It was also like, obviously we all love it, but Jenna.
It was so weird to see it the week of
the election, because you're like, wait, they wrote The Wizard
of Oz about what was happening in the nineteen thirties, right,
and then they wrote Wicked to really expand on it,
and it's happening now, and like it was. I had
(04:24):
shells for three hours.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
I had seen it in a couple of weeks. I
saw two weeks before the premiere and special. I'm like, oh, yeah,
there's some obviously it's political, blah blah blah blah blah.
Seeing it with you that week it was crazy because
it was so glaring and I could sort of a
(04:47):
be my experience watching it two weeks prior and now
and I'm like, oh, oh, this feels really intense and
it is like the undercurrent of.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
This entire story.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Where before I was like, you know, pretty colors and
mites and good singing and acting.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
But the second time, I was like, oh God, it's dark.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
You're like, oh, oh.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
No, the shiny things are intentional. But god, it's so beautiful,
isn't it beautiful?
Speaker 4 (05:16):
So beautiful, And the fact the fact that the tulips
are real. I will never.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Get I can't. I can't.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
I can't, Jenna, I'm so excited for you.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I saw the photo of the tulips, but I can't.
I'm so excited, Like it was like exc.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
I could be misquoting this. I obviously wasn't there. But
I've talked to John about this. It's just been a while,
you know, he was busy having a baby this week.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
I can't believe it was like.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Fourteen million tulips that they planted.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
And then they just waited and I was like, this
is so cool.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I'm really so cool.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
It's nice when you have a budget and good intentions, right,
you know, like, yeah, good intentions. It's a good intention.
It's like good ideas people who are willing to like
sit there and wait for things to grow.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Okay, well, thanks for being here. It's really good to
see to.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Be with you guy.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Yeah, thanks for coming over here. I got to do
your one of your podcasts a little bit ago. It
was so nice.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
It was so fun.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
It was I love came back.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
He was like, that was great.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
That was I could have done that all day.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
I loved it.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
You have two podcasts, yeah, and you've been doing it
for a while. Yeah, how have you enjoyed this sort
of I don't know, hostess with the Mostest Thing.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
Well, that's very kind. I I don't know. I love
it because I'm curious about people, and I really enjoy
getting to know people and their stories. I like to
know what motivates folks. I love having conversations with people
I might not otherwise get to speak to. And it's
(06:59):
really just an excuse to be curious. That's what a
podcast is.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
You literally get to have people you think are interesting
sit down with you and answer your questions. I'm like,
are we going to acknowledge that we've literally won the
idea lottery with this?
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Right?
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Yes, it's so true. It's so cool, and we can
do it from home, right yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
And even even for the show I do with my girlfriends.
That's you know about our first show that came from
the interesting thing of like, you know, you do a
job like that for so long, you build families that
are complicated and beautiful, and you know, everyone has to
(07:42):
learn to communicate and live together and do all the things.
And then what's been I think almost the most interesting
for us, and I'm curious for you guys, is you
know what builds afterwards too, what you discover, you know,
the ways that you maintain life together. And it was
early pandemic. I was standing in this kitchen on FaceTime
(08:06):
with Joy and Hillary and we all were like, well,
everything is insane. And we each opened a bottle of
wine and we were like, well, what do we do now?
And I looked at them and I was like, wait
a second, this is what we do now. Like we're
on a FaceTime, but we could be on a zoom
and we could be doing this with people who are
probably also drinking in their kitchens feeling anxious.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Like we have.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
We are in many ways, you know, in the real ways,
like each other's comfort people, and we have this comfort
show and we could do this. I mean, was it
sort of like the same idea of why you guys
wanted to do this? Not originally, but it was in
(08:53):
a panic response. There's a trauma response.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
No. Kevin and I had started a podcast that was
more about our friendship, which similarly, you know, it was
like why not work together and create something where we
could talk to other people about their work relationships and
friendships that have blossomed into you know, great support systems
(09:22):
for each other. And so yeah, we had a bunch
of couples and people who worked together, and the Glee
folk were so loud and all they wanted was to
hear more Glee, more Glee. Yeah, and it's like it
became so loud we couldn't ignore it, and so we
pivoted about halfway through our season or maybe through the
(09:42):
whole season of like just guests to a recap podcast.
And then during the pandemic, when I passed away, we
decided to just scrap the whole idea because we were like,
we don't want to talk about clear or watch it.
So during the pandemic is actually when we took the
break from all of it, and then the Glee folk
came back loud and clear again, and we're like, please
(10:04):
bring it back. So that's when we decided to bring
it back. And I'm glad we took the break and
brought it back because this experience is very different than
what we were doing pre pandemic with our podcast.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Well, you said some of that with me when you
came on my show, Kevin, Like, yeah, talking about some
of the conversations that happened when you brought it back
around and some of you know, people's people were like
more ready to talk. And I don't know. I think
when you're part of something that hits the zeitgeist in
the ways that these shows have, you don't know what
it's going to be like to leave it. Either. It's
(10:42):
you know, it's bittersweet, it's a blessing and a curse.
It's all the sort of cliche things people say. And
I know when we first finished one trio, I was like,
don't talk to me about it, don't ask me about it,
like I'm good. You know, there was like trauma and
hurt and things that had to be even for us,
there were things that some of us couldn't really heal
(11:06):
beyond like you know, acquaintance care sort of stuff until
me too, and we really got to like talk about
our boss. There's like, I don't know, there's seasons to
this stuff. It's real life. It's not a neat little
bo episode that the audience watches once a week. It's
like it's your full time existence. Yes, And so I
(11:28):
love hearing that you guys have been able to go
through your sort of seasons, meaning not like of the show,
but of your lives and your experiences with it. I
think that's really beautiful.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I also think the distance from it has helped.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Like you said, when you're in it and doing it,
it's really hard to recognize or have the energy or
ability to do anything else other than just get through
your day, because those days are long, and especially with
success of a show, there's a lot of people depending
on that show for financial reasons, and so you're just
to do your job. This is why we're here. And
(12:02):
literally yesterday we were recording something and like all of
a sudden, something hit me. I was like, oh, I
had this like false memory of like a feel. Well
it wasn't a false memory, but I think it was
a false intentioned feeling. I don't know how you describe it,
but like the feeling I had attached to this like
(12:23):
run of episodes. Looking back at it, I was like, oh,
that was just because I had like this unresolved grief
of Corey passing and I thought the show just became
terrible and I was angry. It's like no, no, no.
Watching the episode back was like, it's not terrible. I
just had no idea what I was doing and nowhere
to like put it and you know, get through it.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
You Also, there's a really weird thing that happens. People
talk about the golden handcuffs of a show, like you're
so lucky, but you're stuck to it to have a
job that is that takes all your time. No one
talks about the golden hand cuffs of your mental health,
because when you are on a TV show that people
think of as a big deal, nobody wants to hear
(13:06):
that you're having a hard time. Yes, And it took
me years after leaving a set that was very abusive,
like physically, verbally, sexually, emotionally abusive, to understand why I was, like, well,
obviously I was a shall of a person. It took
me a long time to understand why I literally could
(13:28):
not bear to speak to people I didn't know or
be touched by strangers when I was at the height
of how awful that was because it was so so
crushingly hard to do my job and so many people
depended on me doing my job and showing up to
work no matter how bad work was. That the idea
(13:49):
that then I had to walk out of work and
be touched by excited strangers who needed me to be
happy about my job, that literally made me not want
to be on earth, Like I couldn't do it, and
I turned into like a recluse, and I was quiet
and angry and probably really unpleasant to be around. But
(14:10):
it took me, like going through the post experience, like
literal getting diagnosed with PTSD and learning how to get
out the other side of it and like cope with
post traumatic stress disorder, to be like, oh, well, yes,
of course I couldn't. I couldn't do it, Like I
(14:31):
literally was incapable of doing it, and nobody wanted to
hear that it was hard because people were like, you,
privileged bitch. And then I was like, turns out you
all have to be very different with each other. And yes,
I'm not the kind of person who wants to like
Pollyanna that the worst thing that's ever happened to you,
or the best friend that you lost or whatever like
(14:53):
was for a reason. But I will say what I
had to learn in terms of how to be ten
or with myself, as ferocious as I will be to
defend all of us and our rights and all the
things I haven't, I have so much more tenderness than
I ever thought I would have for people that I
(15:13):
do not agree with. When we sit down to actually
have a conversation because I'm like, there's a whole bunch
of shit going on in your life that I can't
possibly know about. I've been there.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Yeah, yeah, which I mean that's the bigger thing too,
is to be able to go through those traumatic things
and yeah, not to say that you happen for a reason,
but to find a good, good reason out of it,
because you can just go through it and be like,
all these bad things happened.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Why did all these bad things happen? And stay within.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
That as opposed to okay, no, no, no, there's some lessons
here that I can apply to look at the world.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
And yeah, it's like I don't know why this metaphor
image whatever just came into my mind, But it's like
someone coming into your house. I'm like smashing like the
bull your grandmother gave you. It's devastating, But it's like,
are you going to leave a shattered bowl on the
floor or are you going to pick it up and
figure out how to glue it back together?
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Right?
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Because you can.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
You just have to. You have to figure out how
to do it.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
You and I started hanging out shortly after your show ended, right,
it was like right after well.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Because you, yeah, like you and Jenny and you guys
all got so close and I was like, oh my god,
all my friends are like making fun friends. And every
once in a while I come home on the weekend
and everyone's at my house.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
I love this.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
It was like such a fun.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
So I'm like, I don't really know Sophia that well,
and I'm in her home a lot.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
And then it was like really sweet because I'd get
a break and actually be like, oh my god, everyone's
going to the movies. I get to go.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
This is fun.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Yeah, But you are like as a friend, like when
you're describing how you were, you know, going through that
experience of like you were to yourself and it was
dark and it was very very traumatic. As a friend,
you couldn't be more different. You are like the like,
everyone come over, how what do you need? How can
(17:21):
I help? Like you are very much that.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Well, thank you, But I will say like this house
and being able to leave that like dark isolationist experience
and come home and literally be in like a rom
com where you know, all the girls live together and
everyone comes over every weekend and we're like playing board
(17:44):
games outside like this this thing and what you were
talking about was it was like my therapy before I
knew what therapy was, Like, it's the best thing. And
even you know when when we talk about like kind
of the pandemic crazy, like I would just be like,
does everyone want to come over and sit in the backyard,
(18:06):
Like you sit in that corner of the deck and
all sit in this corner of the deck. And it
was the sort of thing where it was like we
just need to be together and we can kind of
have a version of what we had before until we
can have it again. There's something I think about having
that like the best compliment anyone ever paid me was like, Oh,
your house is kind of like our cheers. It's our
(18:28):
mind where everyone knows your name.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
And I was like, oh, I've had with Austin about like, Okay,
if an apocalypse happens, where do we go. I'm like,
I'm going to Sow's house. I'm like I'm like, sheesh,
it's gonna be fine. He's got to figure it out.
I'm going there because.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Everyone will be there will be fine.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Yeah, it's you subconsciously new to create a safe space
for everybody. You created like the community home.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
Oh my god, that makes me want to sob.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
My eyes are wet for many reasons. No, I I'm curious,
like speaking of a safe place, like because of all
the abuse that you guys went through, that you've been
so honest and open about on the show, and then
shooting on location where you guys are kind of isolated
in a lot of ways, Like what that did for
(19:22):
your cast, like and your girls, especially that you're doing
the show with, Like, now, what that experience was like
for you guys throughout that whole series and journey, Because
for Kevin and I, like, you know, obviously we were
through we went through a lot of trauma during the
show as well. Yeah, in very different ways, but you know,
it bonded us in a way that I don't know
(19:43):
that other people will ever understand. So I'm just curious
to hear like your journey.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
Well, yeah, I mean I feel like it's really complicated
and at least for us, I don't know if you
guys had this lower but you know, friends had been
on and was obviously such a big deal, and that
cast was they were all actual best friends, and they
banded together to get paid you know, what they were
worth and all the things, and it became this kind
(20:13):
of lore where it was like, never let your cast
be friends, you know, like don't let them be like
the cast of that show, meaning don't ever let them
kind of band together. And Hillary and I were such
fast friends, and our boss like really tried to torpedo
(20:34):
that really quickly. And you know, in the way that
you talk about the pressure of how many people are
depending on you, it's not like a family where you
can get in a fight with your sibling and like
not talk for a week and then figure out your shit.
You don't have the option. You have to come to
(20:55):
work and perform. So particularly if you think about over
twenty years ago now, like we didn't have therapy talk,
We didn't have like you know, the holistic psychologists or
whoever people are following on Instagram these days, I don't
even know. There wasn't a lot of learnings or lessons
or modeling about healthy communication, and so there was a
(21:21):
lot of bifurcation that started to happen on our set
where there was like this dual thing happening where we
everyone really cared about each other and if anyone ever
talked shit about anyone on our set, that like wasn't
in our family that was unacceptable. But there was also
like tension and things going unseat and rumors going around,
(21:45):
and like we figured some things out and made peace
and you know, did what we did, and some people
really didn't like. You know, I don't think it's any
surprise to you guys, Like I have always been very
clear about equity and equality and civil rights, and like
(22:05):
I had a coworker who was like, I don't agree,
and we went through a period where we were very
civil at work. But I was like, if you do
not believe that people who don't live the way you
live do not literally deserve equal protection under the law,
I don't. We will just be surface friends.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
FIA, because we have to write, you know, about the boundaries.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
There were all sorts of things happening, which you know,
it's complicated. I've said, being on a set with a
cast is kind of like entering into an arranged marriage,
but with like fifteen people. You don't know these people,
you don't know what they believe. You get dropped in
a place together, and then you have to live together,
and you have to make art together, and you have
to be emotionally vulnerable and you have to trust each other.
(22:49):
But maybe you don't trust each other. Maybe these are
people you would literally never want to speak to again
once you discovered what their moral core was like, or
they might be your very best friend in the world,
like Hillary's my sister. Yeah, and I didn't. I didn't
know if she would be at certain points. She didn't
know if I would be at certain points. But like
we've we've found that not everybody gets to have that,
(23:13):
and I think for a while I sort of assumed
like every single person has to feel like family, every
single person should love every single person, and like that's
just childish and stupid. And it took me a long
time though, right where you're like, no, we all have
to be best friends, and it's like, actually we don't,
and maybe the pressure to be that is nuts. And
(23:34):
so it was a long journey and it was beautiful
and it was hard and it was complicated, and like
for us, we got to a really good place, she
and I, but it got so much better after she
left the show. There were certain things that because we
weren't on set, we like sat down together one day
at a barbecue like the summer after she'd left, and
(23:56):
we like cracked beers and we started talking and she
was like, I just could ask you something, and I
was like, I need to ask you something too, And
there were things that as close as we'd been for
all those last years, like, there were still things we
hadn't said because we didn't want to screw up work
because our job was to prioritize the crew and the
(24:17):
family and the thing, and so us being able to
rebuild stuff. Starting in the seventh season, when she was
gone on like a soul level, not on a really
good friend level, but on a like you are my family,
my sister level was something I didn't even see coming
because I cherished our friendship, but I didn't I didn't
(24:37):
know I would cherish our family someday. And like, nobody
prepares you for this shit when you're.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Twenty and on the TV show equipped.
Speaker 5 (24:49):
No one is equipped because then you add in also
money and fame, which are like silly, silly things, but
they're high pressure, high pressure, and it makes everybody in
this high pressure situation already go even crazier.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
Yeah, Well, because you can't just be a person, You
can't just be who you are with your friends at home,
because you are responsible for an entire industry. And if
you screw up the dynamic on set, then you're you're
putting your crew at risk. You're risking your working relationship
(25:26):
with the studio that employs you. Like it's it's actually
so nuts, and nobody talks about it. And by the way,
I just I already know people are gonna be like
this entitled doctor, but it is really really hard and
so sorry that I wound up wound up being like
so much deeper. And you probably were no, no, that's.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Exactly because I mean, I don't know how that was
for you hearing that, but a lot of that was like, oh, yeah, okay,
these are universal things that happen on sets, like.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Very much. Yeah, that was real.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
I have heard somebody else not on our show say
very very close things that happened on ours, you know,
like just the dynamics of you know, we're the family.
If you talked about us, that's not okay, Like we're
so protective of each other. But then you have so
much Yeah, those internal dynamics that are weird. And I
(26:29):
think sometimes thinking about what you just sort of ended
on about you don't want to mess it up for
the crew, like you need to create because people see
such a small percentage of what actually goes on, like
what ends up on screen is such a small part
of the every day And you have so many people,
(26:50):
people from and you and I talked about it on
your show, from all different walks of life who are
coming together to make this thing. And I think the
golden handcuff situation and also applies an extra layer of
in the dynamics of crew and cast and production of
If there is an internal issue with the cast, let's say,
(27:13):
and the cast and producers, you don't want to complain
about it for several reasons. One, it's unprofessional you're complaining
to maybe two other crew members are speaking about it.
But also it's like, yeah, you're there less time than
all the crew is, you're making exponentially more money than
they are, So who are we to complain about these things?
(27:36):
But it affects everyone, and it also it's like bad
behavior is bad behavior. But again, you're like an independent
contractor hired by a studio in a network to do
this job. And now that job comes with these other
things like controlling the dynamics and the healthiness and happiness
of the set, in your working relationship with people you
(27:58):
did not know before this and also you all became
famous all of a sudden, and some of you handled
it really well and some of you didn't. Yeah, the
outside is impacting the inside, and it's all, yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Well, I and you you don't want to lose touch
with normalcy. And that sounds so stupid, but it's like
I had to learn the hard way. I remember being
on set and like we and it really hit me
because we had a PA on a show who was
(28:34):
a woman, a young woman who was so great, and
it was like her first episode years into the series
getting to run the set, like getting to step in,
you know, to the role of the person in the
ad department above her and run the set. And it
wasn't lost on me that in a big scene we
had plenty of regular background actors, right like people who
(28:56):
come in a lot, you get to know everybody, and
people respected the rules pretty well. You know. Social media
changed things and everyone wants like the bts and the whatever,
and it's like, that's not what we're here for. But okay,
but it really irked me that this group of folks
that like I considered to be in the fam in
(29:16):
the background would not stop taking pictures even though there's
an express like network policy that you do not do
that on set, and anytime anyone was doing it, and
the older man who's like, you know, fifty and in
charge normally running the set would say, don't do that.
People would put their phones away, but this woman who
was thirty and very physically small was running our set,
(29:41):
and this group of people like kept doing this, and
I finally walked over and was like, guys, what are
we doing? Like please don't disrespect her, Please don't disrespect us,
like this is our house, you know, please be cool,
and like don't treat don't treat her because she's a
young woman, like her instructions don't matter, her opinion doesn't matter,
or her authority is unrecognized, okay, And like I didn't
(30:04):
think I was being rude at all. And it turned
into this whole thing where you were like, you're an
actor and you can't talk, like you can't do that.
You always have to let someone else be the bad guy.
And I was like, no, no, I don't want to
turn into the person that becomes infantilized so that I
(30:26):
can appear perfect, Like, guys, what are we doing?
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Like to be fair, you have a shortcut to be
able to cut the Yeah, you know the set, you
know those people, and it's like yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
And if you feel shamed by that, you deal with
your feelings. But it was this really interesting thing. It's
an example that like popped out of my brain. I
haven't thought about it in a long time because I
was like, oh, it won't even be that you change.
It's that the way people perceive your humanness changes. It's
that you are allowed to be less and less human
(30:59):
because they believe you are more and more privileged. Yes,
And it's like, actually, I become a privileged idiot if
I become less human if I won't allow that, and
I go get it. I go get someone on the staff,
on the crew, and I'm like, you need to go
talk to those people. I'm like, what are we doing?
Are we turning into the people that are like, don't
look at me, don't eye contact with me like you.
(31:22):
I would never, I would sooner die.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yes, it's because we've seen it happen.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
We have seen it.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
You guys, this is not that serious.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Come on, well, yeah, you can't allow that to happen
because then you become less human and it gets taken
away from you in a way, I don't, but your
integrity gets taken.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Sorry, he said, it's so beautifully that I'm not even
going to try and repeat it.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
Well, I don't really know what I'm saying, other than
it's like this very tricky.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
It's a very tricky balance and like line that we
toe where we are under our microscope much more than
other people, and what we do say is often taken
out of context and can be construed as being a diva,
a bitch, especially as a woman on a set, in
(32:16):
a leadership position, and it becomes something that I don't
want to feel scared to be who I am and
lead with strength and kindness and have that be misconstrued.
But I'd rather be misconstrued than not say anything at
all exactly. So you guys, you know, that's their vision
(32:41):
of what we are supposed to be and who we
are supposed to, how we're supposed to come off, and
how we're supposed to be handled and have other people
handle our business. But you learn over time and have
to deconstruct that in other people who have not been
in the position that you're in. Yeah, that's kind of
what we try to do.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
And I think you know, somebody recently was like, God,
why are all the actors like all talking about their
feelings and therapy lately? And I'm like, well, because our
literal jobs are to show up and be emotionally healthy
enough to emotionally manipulate ourselves into acting out other people's feelings,
(33:23):
and then be healthy enough to then leave those feelings
at home and go have your real feelings in your
real life. It requires an immense amount of emotional and
psychological inventory and willingness to communicate and admit imperfection, and
you know, learn to be less and less judgmental, Like
(33:45):
it's not always easy to play a character who's an
asshole or who's like nuts, and you have to go
in and like be these people and not judge them or.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
For nine years.
Speaker 6 (33:54):
Yeah, you're supposed to be this person and live in
this body for nine years and then exit it immediately
every day and then after nine years also become who
you are again.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yeah, it's a big feat.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
Was it weird for you when when the show ended?
Like how did you do that? How did you leave
her at work.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
At the end of the show, like when the series ended?
Or every day?
Speaker 4 (34:31):
Well, I mean I guess either whatever comes to mind. Sorry,
I'm a guest on your show and I'm interviewing.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
That's great. Please.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
I don't feel like I left her every day. I
feel like I inhabited her for a very long time
and we were one for and that was also troublesome.
The character started to meld into me and I started
to meld into her. And also didn't help that the
writers were writing to that.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
Oh no, you don't say.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Right when we walked away from the show, especially in
our In my personal life, I actually moved out of La,
I moved home. I didn't speak of it, I didn't
look at it. I got other work, I ran, I
said see you later, La, and I did other projects
(35:15):
and that it really helped me kind of shake shake her.
But in audition rooms though, in that interim people, I
had a really hard time. I had a really hard
time shaking everything from the tone, the pace, the way
I spoke, the intonation and just inhabiting Dina and people
(35:38):
couldn't separate it because I couldn't separate it. Yeah, it
was very, very hard, and that's why I never talked
about that. We haven't, Kevin, I have to dive into that. Well,
we're getting to the Anniversity series anyway, so we'll talk
about it.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
I think I had a similar hmm, you see, like
red carpet photos from that time. I was really trying
to fight against the character so hard. Outside of Paramount,
it was like I am not that person, Like I
was a very clear divide. And then when they did
(36:13):
start writing, you know, more of me in it, I
was like, it was a little hard, but I think
we were quite different, especially like the whole gay thing,
Like there was more of a divide between me and
who already was. Yeah, but any audition during it and afterwards,
(36:34):
and every now and then with each new job, so
I'll like find a little thing that I didn't realize
was like still in there, Like it just came up.
It just happened recently, and I don't remember what. I
don't know if it was how I said a word
or it was like a physical movement.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
All of a sudden.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
I was like, oh no, there is Oh God, I
gotta put that away, Like this is not your show,
but it's very It is very because I didn't think
I'm like that type of Yeah, I don't know actor,
but like it, Yeah, when you inhabit a body like that,
for so long.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Oh my god, it's scary.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
How you leave it?
Speaker 2 (37:11):
How did you leave it?
Speaker 4 (37:14):
I don't even know, because I made her, but she
was also her own person. But I fought for her
and I shaped her. And there are things about us
that are really similar and things about us that I
think are very different. And it's sort of like, h
it's like she's my fraternal twin, Like we're not the same,
(37:34):
but we're exactly the same, you know. And there are
some people, Yeah, there will be people who come up
to me and they're like, oh my god, I'm Brooke
Davis's biggest fan, and I'm like, bet, I promise you
I am.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Yeah, yeah, right, like I made her, yeah.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
You know, and I love it and we always giggle
and then I'm like, no, way, okay, but all kidding aside,
Like what why do you say that. I'm like, I'll
tell you why. I say that. It is really interesting,
and I think for me, especially because I felt like
I fought so hard for her, because in a way,
I was learning how to fight for myself and I
(38:11):
didn't know how to yet. Having someone else to fight
for gave me much more kind of strength than I
had for me. So I fought for her, and I
wanted her to be complex and real and to have
motivations and you know, not to just be this like
archetype of a person. And now it's interesting, like I
(38:35):
really got into some things with some viciously anti science
nightmarish people this week on the internet at Shocker, and
a bunch of people were like, holy shit, you really are,
Like this is so Brooke Davis. And I was like,
this is me and I guess this is her because
this is how I found myself while I played her.
I just absolutely refused to like let people be hideous
(38:59):
to women, let alone hideous to women experiencing pregnancy loss,
like we're not doing this. And I just was like, oh,
did you think I wasn't going to say something? And
I was like this is where this is where like
the two lines crossed, it's the same and.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Dias there, it is there.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
It is Wow. That broke my brain a little bit.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Just now, sorry, wait why we were so young?
Speaker 1 (39:29):
We were so young. I fully.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
Learned how to speak up for myself during the process
of the show, and not until very late in it,
to be honest, But the way I felt comfortable speaking
up was sort of behind the character, like under the
guise of this is about the character, or like a
very specific thing about me with the character, and I
(39:52):
felt comfortable doing that in certain situations. Yep, and I
do think. And then Alaratie was written much more confident
than I ever was. I mean, yeah and so and
so I think yeah and so. I think living between
those two worlds of like slowly learning how to do
it behind the scenes and then on camera having that
(40:15):
confidence and also being surrounded. I always say it though,
like the girls on the show, just watching them operate
within that space completely taught me how to speak up
for myself.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
But I did never realize that.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
I also learned that from all the reasons why you
just said yeah, Like.
Speaker 4 (40:35):
I think about even still, I am an adult. It
has been so long. No one is meaner to me
than me. When the internet tries, I'm like.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Oh, yeah, good one. There's no world you don't.
Speaker 4 (40:48):
Live in this brain like enough, I've heard it all before,
I've said it to myself before you ever could have.
But that is where we're so different. Brooke Davis would
be the kind of person who'd be like, I'm so
sorry you've a problem with me. I'm fabulous, right, And
when I'm really in whatever version of a spiral I'm in,
I'm like, oh, I could choose to be more like.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
Her, yeah, and move on with my day, like people
do that dream inspiring, right, You created her to aspire
to her.
Speaker 4 (41:18):
I was like, we have the intersection of the X
and then we have these places where we could not
be farther apart, and I aspire. I aspire.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Yeah, we have this thing, Kevin and I, and we're
finding more and more a lot of people also who
have been on long standing TV shows, the days meld
into each other. Obviously we're in the same set, same places.
Sometimes there's things that you can't recollect, like having what
did you ever learned yesterday? You know, it feels like that.
(41:50):
But there are scenes and numbers and places we've been
that we're rewatching where we feel like I am out
of body because alarmed at how little my memory has
given me from that moment. I don't remember it. Usually
I can remember by the costume, yeah, because we had
(42:11):
just very unique and colorful outfits to wear. It's also
probably because of the trauma, like after Corey died, all
the episodes that we're watching right now, during season five,
there's like very little that we remember doing. But I'm curious, like,
have you had that experience in rewatching your show?
Speaker 4 (42:31):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Absolutely, Okay.
Speaker 4 (42:34):
What's almost weirder to me is when there's an episode
that ends on a cliffhanger and we'll wrap the podcasts
and I'll be like, you, guys, do you remember what happened?
Speaker 2 (42:46):
What happens to totally we should know, but I no
idea a seasons And then there's this.
Speaker 4 (42:54):
Weird thing that the inverse where a scene will start
and it's literally like I can smell Wilmington. I know
what temperature it was that day, Like I I remember walking,
you know, down Front Street and being able to smell
the waffle cones that they started at Killwinds at like
eleven am. Like it's so visceral, it's like I am teleported. Yeah,
(43:20):
And then there are major things that happen and I go, wait,
was what? It's like I wasn't even.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
There and I'm clearly on camera.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
Yes, Jenner has started texting me being like, I'm watching
myself in this scene, but I don't know of being
in this scene, the sceneisting, and it's really freaky, but
it is right yes, I'm glad.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
It seems to be.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
There's like a consensus though amongst people in the same POSISI.
Speaker 4 (43:50):
Remember, And there are things that I remember so clearly,
like so clearly I could I could reblock the experience, yes,
And then things that I'm like, well, that's a fun,
fun trip.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
I didn't know I could do that.
Speaker 4 (44:09):
It's so weird.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
It is really weird, especially after nine seasons. I don't
know how.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Oh my gosh, I just.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
I don't know how you would remember, Like we only
have six seasons and we don't remember. It's like a
glorified five and a half. But like we hardly were, like, m.
Speaker 4 (44:26):
Sure, but like, guys, you were also doing full choreo
recording like you you basically did. You did a TV
show and a Broadway show at the same time, which
is not actually normal for a human.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
It was not.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
No, none of this is normal. But no, no, it's normal.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
It's weird, none of it.
Speaker 3 (44:54):
Going back, you know, watching these things now, we love
getting to interview people who worked on the show in
different capacities and hearing those perspectives just like this where
we're discovering like, oh my god, that's what you meant
by that or oh yeah, we like going and like,
you know, working through the trauma that we didn't necessarily
realize we had had at the time, has it been healing?
(45:19):
And because it's felt more celebratory for us, I think
going through it now and being able to with time
in the distance, be like, look at this, We're proud
of this, and look what we did and oh that
day was tough, and let's talk about it. But we've
been able to sort of it feels like a little
therapy session every time we have a guest on to talk.
(45:40):
But like, looking back for all of you, have there
been things that have come up that you maybe didn't
expect or realize and have been nice to sort of
talk through.
Speaker 4 (45:49):
Oh? Absolutely. I mean even when we first started, we
watched I want to say it was the first two,
maybe it was the first three, but I think it
was the first two episodesisodes together to kind of just
get in the groove of it, and we sopped, just sopped,
and I was like, oh, I wasn't prepared for that
(46:12):
feeling of like look at what innocent, like little babies
we were. We had no idea what we were in for,
and like, yeah, there's there's things that I think you
just have no clue you're going to experience. I think
I think what's felt really nice is realizing, oh yeah,
(46:34):
I now see this the way other people see it.
I get why this was a thing in the zeitgeist.
I get why this is people's comfort show. We did
something really great. And for all the jokes we crack
and all the whatever, like Hillary loves to be like, yeah,
look at all the tears we made people cry with
that shitty script. Could you imagine if we'd had the
script on an HBO show, Like you know, some of
(46:56):
our scripts were great, some were clearly not, like Hi
Early Aughts on the CW. But I'm really proud of
what we did. And I think for a while I
didn't feel like I was allowed to be or maybe
I didn't deserve to be and it it is very
cool to have the distance and then look back and
get it.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
Yeah, it feels nice.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
That's great.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
Well, speaking of so you guys are doing a reboot
if you will, of your show. Would you call it?
What would you call it?
Speaker 4 (47:29):
I would call what is in development? That was Unfortunately
it leaked about. We had an announcement to make no,
it's totally fine, but I would say it's like I
would say, it's a phase two because people have asked
for it for so long, and I think when people
(47:51):
were asking for it, initially all of us said absolutely not,
and then we started to think like, well, what if,
what if it was a perhaps, and what if Nike
the first time the women were in charge, and what
if we could do something really beautiful? And what's been
(48:15):
really special? And I will say I really appreciate, Look,
everybody does their jobs, like everybody toes the line of like,
we don't know, we'll see what happens, because that's what
we've been told to say. But like the cat's out
of the bag now, and our dear friend who started
talking about it in front of someone they shouldn't have
been lovingly reprimanded.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
It's fine.
Speaker 4 (48:38):
But what I will say is it has been the
most inclusive process and that is something I really cherish.
I appreciate that everyone was like, we're gonna say no comment,
and I was like, guys, everybody already knows. We tried
that for like two months or three months or whatever,
and I'm like, it's not working, but it's been really
(48:59):
what's been really special is to be able to be
in the sort of original group of our family and
hear everyone's excitement and everyone's trepidation and why people are
into it and why they're afraid of it, and what
they would want and what they would need. And the
(49:20):
thing that I think is the coolest is, you know,
everyone's gone on to write, produce, direct, be so creative
that what's been really beautiful for me in you know,
partnering with my friends and learning from these amazing women
and the women we all are today is I love
(49:41):
seeing what everyone wants their characters to be doing now.
And even if you know, through this development process, let's
say we don't wind up shooting this thing, what it's
like given me the world building I've seen from all
the women and all the men you know who helped
build the show from the first season, and it's like,
(50:02):
my heart feels really full. I feel like I've gotten
to see it, even if no one else ever does.
And and that's the thing that I cherish because we
get asked, as you guys, I'm sure, do you know
at these conventions or these events, people are like, what
do you think your characters are doing now? And I
have loved watching our showrunner develop what all these sort
(50:26):
of core characters originally answer those questions with the people
who made them the iconic characters.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
That's so special.
Speaker 4 (50:34):
That's really cool. So wherever it goes, it's it's really.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
Been like when yeah, exactly the rest of it.
Speaker 4 (50:42):
And because I love you both and you know what,
it's like, I'm giving you all the information that thank.
Speaker 3 (50:46):
You, no idea fine, It's like it was leaked and
then it just stuck to all the brains.
Speaker 4 (50:56):
Well and then everyone's like, oh, we don't know, and
like they're trying to correct jokes and like sweet Paul
and Barbara and an event like started joking around because
like you know, Paul's character died, so he was like,
I'll try to take this one, and I'm watching everybody
be like, uh, Meanwhile, I'm thinking about like the pages
of character development I've seen that they've all submitted that
(51:17):
they're so good, and I was like, at some point,
we're just gonna have to like say, everyone's brilliant, and
if it winds up on TV, you're gonna love it.
And if it doesn't, we got to have it and
we loved it.
Speaker 3 (51:27):
Right yeah, right, right, So there's been a couple of
years speaking of, you know, being on a show that
was in the zeitgeist. Yeah, there have been a couple
of references in Glee thus far about One Tree Hill.
Speaker 2 (51:41):
Really.
Speaker 3 (51:42):
Yeah, it's so funny because at the time, obviously I
did not know you and not watching idiom like this.
We were yeah, like Heather says, she said in season
two something like I don't want to die.
Speaker 2 (51:55):
And die at least.
Speaker 4 (52:00):
Oh my god, I love it.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
And then we're watching right now there's a band that
Chris call For, Adam Lambert and Demie Levado, Liamshelle and
Iya Rivera are part of, and it was called Pamela
Lansbury but now it's One three Hill. Oh, I mean,
you guys are overlaps. So yeah, it's just so funny.
Speaker 4 (52:21):
Yeah, I don't know that. The such referential stuff was
always really funny to me. We we're in our seventh
season on our pod and there's the whole storyline where Julian,
who winds up being Brook's husband, is, you know, making
this movie of Lucas's book, and Brooke is like, well,
what are you going to do? Hire one of those like,
(52:42):
you know, hot little ships from the CW to play
me or like whatever, and it's so, oh my, what
are we doing? This is so stupid they are doing
but like everyone just can't help themselves.
Speaker 2 (52:56):
No, no, it's point.
Speaker 1 (52:59):
She's seven. You know you used to try it out. Yeah, you.
Speaker 2 (53:04):
Start to be like, we're in on the joke too,
And now you're You're a guest star on gris Anatomy,
which is one of my another massive, massive show. So's fun. Yeah,
I Hillary went.
Speaker 4 (53:20):
On Joy was on at some point and then it
like turned into this thing where all the Grays fans
were like, we got together, we got together, we got
to get her. And because of COVID, even though we
only did the one season of Good Sam, I was
attached to the project for almost three years and so
I just like couldn't And then I went to London
(53:42):
and did my play and then we were on strike
and so they were just like, can we please finally
give the fans please? I was like, yeah, I was
playing a surgeon and it was really fun to get
on set because their medical supervisor was like, we've literally
never had an actor who needed no training. This is
so fun and it's also really fun for me.
Speaker 6 (54:02):
Yeah, And I was just like doing whip stitches and closing.
Speaker 4 (54:06):
Up a surgical thing, and I was like, this really, like,
I actually love playing a doctor. And the pro tip
of it is is when you get to be in
scrubs at work all day, you're basically in pajamas and
I dream.
Speaker 3 (54:17):
This is also why we're going to your house. If
the apocalypse happens, you can stitch us up.
Speaker 4 (54:23):
Yeah, actually I really could. I think I'm.
Speaker 2 (54:25):
Pretty good at it. Wow, that's fine. Have you gotten
to cross paths with Harry Shum.
Speaker 4 (54:30):
No, we don't have any overlap yet. And you know,
much like any show that's been on for that long,
they're so efficient that I'd either not been at work
when he's at work because I keep trying to find him,
or when we're both at work, we're on two different
units and we're like in literal different places, and I'm like,
(54:52):
one of these days, I'm going to see my friend
and I'm acoling in the breezeway.
Speaker 3 (54:57):
He's talked about that schedule and it just sounds one.
He's like, they have been doubt.
Speaker 4 (55:02):
It's unbelievable. It's literally it's kind of like going to
work at Disneyland. You're like, Wow, this is possible. You
mean this green and this nice and you can go
home before your whole family's asleep.
Speaker 1 (55:20):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (55:21):
Yeah yeah wow. Because this is a Glee podcast, what
do you think Brooke would be? Like? Who do you
think she would be in our world in Glee?
Speaker 4 (55:36):
In Glee?
Speaker 2 (55:38):
Oh, like, where would she fit like in the high
school years?
Speaker 1 (55:43):
Yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (55:45):
Oh? I mean I would have had so much fun
cheering with all the girlies. Yeah, you know. I also
think it actually could have been something I don't know.
I I think very similar, like to Brooke and Mouth's friendship.
I feel like Brooke and Arty would have been great friends.
And I feel like because she started close over bros
(56:07):
in high school, like I could have been like making
the ensembles for the numbers.
Speaker 2 (56:12):
I think, yes, Okay, what is there a song do
you think that she might sing?
Speaker 4 (56:19):
I mean, I don't know what her song music, thank you.
I don't know what her song should be. I remember
like the just the feeling in my bones of when
I think it's when Gwyneth Paltrow was in whatever that
season was, and it was when Umbrella had come out,
(56:40):
and I was like, I want to do that, And
then all these years later on lip sync Battle when
Tom Holland did it and broke House down. I was like,
this song. The fact that I have never been able
to do a version of this song on any show,
be it a variety show or a TV show, is
like it haunts me. I want it so bad.
Speaker 2 (56:58):
That okay, I'm open to a so I get it.
Though you got to get out of you. You would
have fought for That's the way you would have fought
for it. I get it. I get it.
Speaker 4 (57:06):
I would have really loved it.
Speaker 2 (57:08):
I would like to see that and like the water choreo,
It's just it was pretty great. It was very hard
to shoot, but it was great.
Speaker 1 (57:16):
Yeah. When it's pulling in your lap.
Speaker 2 (57:19):
Were like full, like to the top of the rain boot.
This is like when people.
Speaker 4 (57:24):
Who loved One Tree Hill are like, oh my god,
like Season eight when broke almost drowned. I'm like, yeah,
and I was actually being drowned on set, like trapped
in a vehicle filling with water. For me, it's a no,
yeah yeah, but I'm enjoyed watching it.
Speaker 2 (57:40):
Right.
Speaker 3 (57:41):
Yes, I'm very bad at gauging, you know, fixing my
face and people are like, I love that number.
Speaker 2 (57:46):
Like you do the same I don't have it in
me anymore. Sophia, thank you so much for taking the
time out of literally one of the busiest people. I
think you're bear Hollywood or in the world, fighting for
justice and human rights and also just a beacon of
(58:11):
light in the industry. Thank you so much for being
with us.
Speaker 4 (58:18):
We did it, we did all. We done our work,
and we're joyful little beings.
Speaker 2 (58:23):
We really did it. We did it, we made it.
Speaker 4 (58:27):
I love you all.
Speaker 1 (58:28):
I love you.
Speaker 3 (58:29):
Thanks so much for being here. It's nice that we
could do this and record it because she and I
have had conversations over the years because how many people
it's a small industry, and then the people who have
had crossover being in a teen show that became a
big thing when you were young, and it's even smaller,
(58:49):
and so it's it is really nice to find people
to be able to talk about it without judgment and
to just be like, this is a crazy thing we're doing.
Speaker 1 (58:57):
Isn't it? Like how what is this for you? Yeah? Exactly?
Speaker 3 (59:02):
Like how many people can say we've been there, I
know what you feel like.
Speaker 2 (59:07):
And it's interesting to have such similar She's so different,
like obviously she is her own person, but like to
have such similar experiences on their show. And yeah, in
many ways, yes, it's actually distant lightening to hear other
people's experiences that are so similar because so much resonates.
Speaker 3 (59:23):
And go listen to She has two great podcasts. One
is Work in Progress and one is Drama Queens, which
is the recap podcast about One Tree Hill. So go
subscribe download all of those. Thank you so for being here.
We love you and that's what you really missed. Thanks
for listening, and follow us on Instagram at and That's
what you really miss pod. Make sure to write us
(59:45):
a review and leave us five stars.
Speaker 1 (59:47):
See you next time
And that's what you really missed with Jenna and Kevin
an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Welcome to you, and that's what you really miss podcasts.
Special guest appearance. We have a fellow actress, high schooler
on a hit TV show for nine years, nine nine.
(00:31):
She needs no introduction. Sophia Bush is here. We're so
thrilled we finally got her in her busy schedule to
come on our show and gab with us about very
crazy experience. Yes, it's similar phenomenon TV show series experience.
Speaker 3 (00:47):
And she's an inspiration in terms of how you know,
being able to look back and understand the crazy things
we experienced and lived through. And she's also just a
great support system, a great friend, and a great human.
Speaker 1 (01:03):
So here's Sophia Bush.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Hi Guary, Welcome, Hi Sophia, Hi cuties. It's good to
see you. Why are you.
Speaker 3 (01:13):
Good on behalf of the people. Thank you for the
work you've done this year, you know, trying to get
things to go in the right direction. Just appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (01:23):
You really do it. You really out there.
Speaker 4 (01:26):
I'm trying. I think it's weird to sort of see
what we're up against and it's like, yeah, it's pretty
tough for like low old humans who just want other
humans to like have healthcare and be able to have
families and stuff. It's hard for us to compete with
like the billion dollar people, not even like the industries
(01:49):
they build, like the people who have the books.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
But it's it's cool.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yeah, people voted. We will figure it out.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
We will.
Speaker 1 (02:00):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (02:01):
Yeah, the whole like surge and uh oh can I
change my vote Google searches. I was like, wow, yeah,
that is oh boy.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
And then I part of me just wishes not.
Speaker 4 (02:15):
That he would take a call from me, because I
think he probably views us as mortal enemies. But part
of me just like wants to call Mitch McConnell and
be like, so when you boast about the forty year
plan to underfund education, it's just been for this, right.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Yeah, that's cool.
Speaker 4 (02:32):
Yeah, to be that unscrupulous. I'm like, my nightmare is
if I'm having a bad day and I'm not so
cheery to the person at the checkout at the grocery
store that I'm like, what if I didn't contribute well
to that person's day? What if I was neutral? Oh
my god, could you imagine if I contributed negatively to
this person's day, and I like, I lose sleep over
it for two days, and I'm like, oh, you want
(02:54):
to you want to take healthcare away from everyone in
your state And you're like that feels fair.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
Can sleep at night?
Speaker 3 (03:01):
Oh yeah, and sleep and just somehow profit off of
it and get lots of other people to agree with
you for forty years, to slowly chip away at people's
freedoms and rights and ability to live.
Speaker 4 (03:14):
It is really crazy.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
It is Wow.
Speaker 3 (03:18):
A side note, I do I have thoughts and would
like to sidebar with you at another time. I would
love that talk about some things for the future.
Speaker 4 (03:26):
I would love that. It's mostly all that I have
been doing, mostly like this on zoom. And then yesterday
I went for like a little kiki at a friend's
house with everyone I canvassed with for a year. And yeah,
the only other reason I've left the house was to
see Wicked because I was like, oh, just all the
(03:47):
queers and the witches. I need it, obviously, I need
to do in a room full of musical theater people.
Speaker 2 (03:55):
Yes, yes, just for and it.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
It felt magical, didn't it.
Speaker 2 (04:00):
It was so perfect.
Speaker 4 (04:02):
It was also like, obviously we all love it, but Jenna.
It was so weird to see it the week of
the election, because you're like, wait, they wrote The Wizard
of Oz about what was happening in the nineteen thirties, right,
and then they wrote Wicked to really expand on it,
and it's happening now, and like it was. I had
(04:24):
shells for three hours.
Speaker 3 (04:26):
I had seen it in a couple of weeks. I
saw two weeks before the premiere and special. I'm like, oh, yeah,
there's some obviously it's political, blah blah blah blah blah.
Seeing it with you that week it was crazy because
it was so glaring and I could sort of a
(04:47):
be my experience watching it two weeks prior and now
and I'm like, oh, oh, this feels really intense and
it is like the undercurrent of.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
This entire story.
Speaker 3 (04:58):
Where before I was like, you know, pretty colors and
mites and good singing and acting.
Speaker 1 (05:03):
But the second time, I was like, oh God, it's dark.
Speaker 4 (05:06):
You're like, oh, oh.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
No, the shiny things are intentional. But god, it's so beautiful,
isn't it beautiful?
Speaker 4 (05:16):
So beautiful, And the fact the fact that the tulips
are real. I will never.
Speaker 2 (05:22):
Get I can't. I can't.
Speaker 1 (05:24):
I can't, Jenna, I'm so excited for you.
Speaker 2 (05:26):
I saw the photo of the tulips, but I can't.
I'm so excited, Like it was like exc.
Speaker 4 (05:32):
I could be misquoting this. I obviously wasn't there. But
I've talked to John about this. It's just been a while,
you know, he was busy having a baby this week.
Speaker 2 (05:41):
I can't believe it was like.
Speaker 4 (05:42):
Fourteen million tulips that they planted.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Oh my god.
Speaker 4 (05:45):
And then they just waited and I was like, this
is so cool.
Speaker 2 (05:50):
I'm really so cool.
Speaker 3 (05:52):
It's nice when you have a budget and good intentions, right,
you know, like, yeah, good intentions. It's a good intention.
It's like good ideas people who are willing to like
sit there and wait for things to grow.
Speaker 2 (06:06):
Okay, well, thanks for being here. It's really good to
see to.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Be with you guy.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Yeah, thanks for coming over here. I got to do
your one of your podcasts a little bit ago. It
was so nice.
Speaker 4 (06:17):
It was so fun.
Speaker 1 (06:19):
It was I love came back.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
He was like, that was great.
Speaker 1 (06:22):
That was I could have done that all day.
Speaker 4 (06:24):
I loved it.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
You have two podcasts, yeah, and you've been doing it
for a while. Yeah, how have you enjoyed this sort
of I don't know, hostess with the Mostest Thing.
Speaker 4 (06:36):
Well, that's very kind. I I don't know. I love
it because I'm curious about people, and I really enjoy
getting to know people and their stories. I like to
know what motivates folks. I love having conversations with people
I might not otherwise get to speak to. And it's
(06:59):
really just an excuse to be curious. That's what a
podcast is.
Speaker 2 (07:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:04):
You literally get to have people you think are interesting
sit down with you and answer your questions. I'm like,
are we going to acknowledge that we've literally won the
idea lottery with this?
Speaker 1 (07:15):
Right?
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Yes, it's so true. It's so cool, and we can
do it from home, right yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:22):
And even even for the show I do with my girlfriends.
That's you know about our first show that came from
the interesting thing of like, you know, you do a
job like that for so long, you build families that
are complicated and beautiful, and you know, everyone has to
(07:42):
learn to communicate and live together and do all the things.
And then what's been I think almost the most interesting
for us, and I'm curious for you guys, is you
know what builds afterwards too, what you discover, you know,
the ways that you maintain life together. And it was
early pandemic. I was standing in this kitchen on FaceTime
(08:06):
with Joy and Hillary and we all were like, well,
everything is insane. And we each opened a bottle of
wine and we were like, well, what do we do now?
And I looked at them and I was like, wait
a second, this is what we do now. Like we're
on a FaceTime, but we could be on a zoom
and we could be doing this with people who are
probably also drinking in their kitchens feeling anxious.
Speaker 2 (08:30):
Like we have.
Speaker 4 (08:32):
We are in many ways, you know, in the real ways,
like each other's comfort people, and we have this comfort
show and we could do this. I mean, was it
sort of like the same idea of why you guys
wanted to do this? Not originally, but it was in
(08:53):
a panic response. There's a trauma response.
Speaker 2 (08:58):
No. Kevin and I had started a podcast that was
more about our friendship, which similarly, you know, it was
like why not work together and create something where we
could talk to other people about their work relationships and
friendships that have blossomed into you know, great support systems
(09:22):
for each other. And so yeah, we had a bunch
of couples and people who worked together, and the Glee
folk were so loud and all they wanted was to
hear more Glee, more Glee. Yeah, and it's like it
became so loud we couldn't ignore it, and so we
pivoted about halfway through our season or maybe through the
(09:42):
whole season of like just guests to a recap podcast.
And then during the pandemic, when I passed away, we
decided to just scrap the whole idea because we were like,
we don't want to talk about clear or watch it.
So during the pandemic is actually when we took the
break from all of it, and then the Glee folk
came back loud and clear again, and we're like, please
(10:04):
bring it back. So that's when we decided to bring
it back. And I'm glad we took the break and
brought it back because this experience is very different than
what we were doing pre pandemic with our podcast.
Speaker 4 (10:19):
Well, you said some of that with me when you
came on my show, Kevin, Like, yeah, talking about some
of the conversations that happened when you brought it back
around and some of you know, people's people were like
more ready to talk. And I don't know. I think
when you're part of something that hits the zeitgeist in
the ways that these shows have, you don't know what
it's going to be like to leave it. Either. It's
(10:42):
you know, it's bittersweet, it's a blessing and a curse.
It's all the sort of cliche things people say. And
I know when we first finished one trio, I was like,
don't talk to me about it, don't ask me about it,
like I'm good. You know, there was like trauma and
hurt and things that had to be even for us,
there were things that some of us couldn't really heal
(11:06):
beyond like you know, acquaintance care sort of stuff until
me too, and we really got to like talk about
our boss. There's like, I don't know, there's seasons to
this stuff. It's real life. It's not a neat little
bo episode that the audience watches once a week. It's
like it's your full time existence. Yes, And so I
(11:28):
love hearing that you guys have been able to go
through your sort of seasons, meaning not like of the show,
but of your lives and your experiences with it. I
think that's really beautiful.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
I also think the distance from it has helped.
Speaker 3 (11:41):
Like you said, when you're in it and doing it,
it's really hard to recognize or have the energy or
ability to do anything else other than just get through
your day, because those days are long, and especially with
success of a show, there's a lot of people depending
on that show for financial reasons, and so you're just
to do your job. This is why we're here. And
(12:02):
literally yesterday we were recording something and like all of
a sudden, something hit me. I was like, oh, I
had this like false memory of like a feel. Well
it wasn't a false memory, but I think it was
a false intentioned feeling. I don't know how you describe it,
but like the feeling I had attached to this like
(12:23):
run of episodes. Looking back at it, I was like, oh,
that was just because I had like this unresolved grief
of Corey passing and I thought the show just became
terrible and I was angry. It's like no, no, no.
Watching the episode back was like, it's not terrible. I
just had no idea what I was doing and nowhere
to like put it and you know, get through it.
Speaker 4 (12:44):
You Also, there's a really weird thing that happens. People
talk about the golden handcuffs of a show, like you're
so lucky, but you're stuck to it to have a
job that is that takes all your time. No one
talks about the golden hand cuffs of your mental health,
because when you are on a TV show that people
think of as a big deal, nobody wants to hear
(13:06):
that you're having a hard time. Yes, And it took
me years after leaving a set that was very abusive,
like physically, verbally, sexually, emotionally abusive, to understand why I was, like, well,
obviously I was a shall of a person. It took
me a long time to understand why I literally could
(13:28):
not bear to speak to people I didn't know or
be touched by strangers when I was at the height
of how awful that was because it was so so
crushingly hard to do my job and so many people
depended on me doing my job and showing up to
work no matter how bad work was. That the idea
(13:49):
that then I had to walk out of work and
be touched by excited strangers who needed me to be
happy about my job, that literally made me not want
to be on earth, Like I couldn't do it, and
I turned into like a recluse, and I was quiet
and angry and probably really unpleasant to be around. But
(14:10):
it took me, like going through the post experience, like
literal getting diagnosed with PTSD and learning how to get
out the other side of it and like cope with
post traumatic stress disorder, to be like, oh, well, yes,
of course I couldn't. I couldn't do it, Like I
(14:31):
literally was incapable of doing it, and nobody wanted to
hear that it was hard because people were like, you,
privileged bitch. And then I was like, turns out you
all have to be very different with each other. And yes,
I'm not the kind of person who wants to like
Pollyanna that the worst thing that's ever happened to you,
or the best friend that you lost or whatever like
(14:53):
was for a reason. But I will say what I
had to learn in terms of how to be ten
or with myself, as ferocious as I will be to
defend all of us and our rights and all the
things I haven't, I have so much more tenderness than
I ever thought I would have for people that I
(15:13):
do not agree with. When we sit down to actually
have a conversation because I'm like, there's a whole bunch
of shit going on in your life that I can't
possibly know about. I've been there.
Speaker 3 (15:21):
Yeah, yeah, which I mean that's the bigger thing too,
is to be able to go through those traumatic things
and yeah, not to say that you happen for a reason,
but to find a good, good reason out of it,
because you can just go through it and be like,
all these bad things happened.
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Why did all these bad things happen? And stay within.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
That as opposed to okay, no, no, no, there's some lessons
here that I can apply to look at the world.
Speaker 4 (15:48):
And yeah, it's like I don't know why this metaphor
image whatever just came into my mind, But it's like
someone coming into your house. I'm like smashing like the
bull your grandmother gave you. It's devastating, But it's like,
are you going to leave a shattered bowl on the
floor or are you going to pick it up and
figure out how to glue it back together?
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Right?
Speaker 2 (16:11):
Because you can.
Speaker 4 (16:12):
You just have to. You have to figure out how
to do it.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
You and I started hanging out shortly after your show ended, right,
it was like right after well.
Speaker 4 (16:31):
Because you, yeah, like you and Jenny and you guys
all got so close and I was like, oh my god,
all my friends are like making fun friends. And every
once in a while I come home on the weekend
and everyone's at my house.
Speaker 2 (16:42):
I love this.
Speaker 4 (16:44):
It was like such a fun.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
So I'm like, I don't really know Sophia that well,
and I'm in her home a lot.
Speaker 4 (16:52):
And then it was like really sweet because I'd get
a break and actually be like, oh my god, everyone's
going to the movies. I get to go.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
This is fun.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Yeah, But you are like as a friend, like when
you're describing how you were, you know, going through that
experience of like you were to yourself and it was
dark and it was very very traumatic. As a friend,
you couldn't be more different. You are like the like,
everyone come over, how what do you need? How can
(17:21):
I help? Like you are very much that.
Speaker 4 (17:23):
Well, thank you, But I will say like this house
and being able to leave that like dark isolationist experience
and come home and literally be in like a rom
com where you know, all the girls live together and
everyone comes over every weekend and we're like playing board
(17:44):
games outside like this this thing and what you were
talking about was it was like my therapy before I
knew what therapy was, Like, it's the best thing. And
even you know when when we talk about like kind
of the pandemic crazy, like I would just be like,
does everyone want to come over and sit in the backyard,
(18:06):
Like you sit in that corner of the deck and
all sit in this corner of the deck. And it
was the sort of thing where it was like we
just need to be together and we can kind of
have a version of what we had before until we
can have it again. There's something I think about having
that like the best compliment anyone ever paid me was like, Oh,
your house is kind of like our cheers. It's our
(18:28):
mind where everyone knows your name.
Speaker 3 (18:29):
And I was like, oh, I've had with Austin about like, Okay,
if an apocalypse happens, where do we go. I'm like,
I'm going to Sow's house. I'm like I'm like, sheesh,
it's gonna be fine. He's got to figure it out.
I'm going there because.
Speaker 4 (18:46):
Everyone will be there will be fine.
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Yeah, it's you subconsciously new to create a safe space
for everybody. You created like the community home.
Speaker 4 (18:54):
Oh my god, that makes me want to sob.
Speaker 2 (18:57):
My eyes are wet for many reasons. No, I I'm curious,
like speaking of a safe place, like because of all
the abuse that you guys went through, that you've been
so honest and open about on the show, and then
shooting on location where you guys are kind of isolated
in a lot of ways, Like what that did for
(19:22):
your cast, like and your girls, especially that you're doing
the show with, Like, now, what that experience was like
for you guys throughout that whole series and journey, Because
for Kevin and I, like, you know, obviously we were
through we went through a lot of trauma during the
show as well. Yeah, in very different ways, but you know,
it bonded us in a way that I don't know
(19:43):
that other people will ever understand. So I'm just curious
to hear like your journey.
Speaker 4 (19:49):
Well, yeah, I mean I feel like it's really complicated
and at least for us, I don't know if you
guys had this lower but you know, friends had been
on and was obviously such a big deal, and that
cast was they were all actual best friends, and they
banded together to get paid you know, what they were
worth and all the things, and it became this kind
(20:13):
of lore where it was like, never let your cast
be friends, you know, like don't let them be like
the cast of that show, meaning don't ever let them
kind of band together. And Hillary and I were such
fast friends, and our boss like really tried to torpedo
(20:34):
that really quickly. And you know, in the way that
you talk about the pressure of how many people are
depending on you, it's not like a family where you
can get in a fight with your sibling and like
not talk for a week and then figure out your shit.
You don't have the option. You have to come to
(20:55):
work and perform. So particularly if you think about over
twenty years ago now, like we didn't have therapy talk,
We didn't have like you know, the holistic psychologists or
whoever people are following on Instagram these days, I don't
even know. There wasn't a lot of learnings or lessons
or modeling about healthy communication, and so there was a
(21:21):
lot of bifurcation that started to happen on our set
where there was like this dual thing happening where we
everyone really cared about each other and if anyone ever
talked shit about anyone on our set, that like wasn't
in our family that was unacceptable. But there was also
like tension and things going unseat and rumors going around,
(21:45):
and like we figured some things out and made peace
and you know, did what we did, and some people
really didn't like. You know, I don't think it's any
surprise to you guys, Like I have always been very
clear about equity and equality and civil rights, and like
(22:05):
I had a coworker who was like, I don't agree,
and we went through a period where we were very
civil at work. But I was like, if you do
not believe that people who don't live the way you
live do not literally deserve equal protection under the law,
I don't. We will just be surface friends.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
FIA, because we have to write, you know, about the boundaries.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
There were all sorts of things happening, which you know,
it's complicated. I've said, being on a set with a
cast is kind of like entering into an arranged marriage,
but with like fifteen people. You don't know these people,
you don't know what they believe. You get dropped in
a place together, and then you have to live together,
and you have to make art together, and you have
to be emotionally vulnerable and you have to trust each other.
(22:49):
But maybe you don't trust each other. Maybe these are
people you would literally never want to speak to again
once you discovered what their moral core was like, or
they might be your very best friend in the world,
like Hillary's my sister. Yeah, and I didn't. I didn't
know if she would be at certain points. She didn't
know if I would be at certain points. But like
we've we've found that not everybody gets to have that,
(23:13):
and I think for a while I sort of assumed
like every single person has to feel like family, every
single person should love every single person, and like that's
just childish and stupid. And it took me a long
time though, right where you're like, no, we all have
to be best friends, and it's like, actually we don't,
and maybe the pressure to be that is nuts. And
(23:34):
so it was a long journey and it was beautiful
and it was hard and it was complicated, and like
for us, we got to a really good place, she
and I, but it got so much better after she
left the show. There were certain things that because we
weren't on set, we like sat down together one day
at a barbecue like the summer after she'd left, and
(23:56):
we like cracked beers and we started talking and she
was like, I just could ask you something, and I
was like, I need to ask you something too, And
there were things that as close as we'd been for
all those last years, like, there were still things we
hadn't said because we didn't want to screw up work
because our job was to prioritize the crew and the
(24:17):
family and the thing, and so us being able to
rebuild stuff. Starting in the seventh season, when she was
gone on like a soul level, not on a really
good friend level, but on a like you are my family,
my sister level was something I didn't even see coming
because I cherished our friendship, but I didn't I didn't
(24:37):
know I would cherish our family someday. And like, nobody
prepares you for this shit when you're.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Twenty and on the TV show equipped.
Speaker 5 (24:49):
No one is equipped because then you add in also
money and fame, which are like silly, silly things, but
they're high pressure, high pressure, and it makes everybody in
this high pressure situation already go even crazier.
Speaker 4 (25:04):
Yeah, Well, because you can't just be a person, You
can't just be who you are with your friends at home,
because you are responsible for an entire industry. And if
you screw up the dynamic on set, then you're you're
putting your crew at risk. You're risking your working relationship
(25:26):
with the studio that employs you. Like it's it's actually
so nuts, and nobody talks about it. And by the way,
I just I already know people are gonna be like
this entitled doctor, but it is really really hard and
so sorry that I wound up wound up being like
so much deeper. And you probably were no, no, that's.
Speaker 3 (25:49):
Exactly because I mean, I don't know how that was
for you hearing that, but a lot of that was like, oh, yeah, okay,
these are universal things that happen on sets, like.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Very much. Yeah, that was real.
Speaker 3 (26:06):
I have heard somebody else not on our show say
very very close things that happened on ours, you know,
like just the dynamics of you know, we're the family.
If you talked about us, that's not okay, Like we're
so protective of each other. But then you have so
much Yeah, those internal dynamics that are weird. And I
(26:29):
think sometimes thinking about what you just sort of ended
on about you don't want to mess it up for
the crew, like you need to create because people see
such a small percentage of what actually goes on, like
what ends up on screen is such a small part
of the every day And you have so many people,
(26:50):
people from and you and I talked about it on
your show, from all different walks of life who are
coming together to make this thing. And I think the
golden handcuff situation and also applies an extra layer of
in the dynamics of crew and cast and production of
If there is an internal issue with the cast, let's say,
(27:13):
and the cast and producers, you don't want to complain
about it for several reasons. One, it's unprofessional you're complaining
to maybe two other crew members are speaking about it.
But also it's like, yeah, you're there less time than
all the crew is, you're making exponentially more money than
they are, So who are we to complain about these things?
(27:36):
But it affects everyone, and it also it's like bad
behavior is bad behavior. But again, you're like an independent
contractor hired by a studio in a network to do
this job. And now that job comes with these other
things like controlling the dynamics and the healthiness and happiness
of the set, in your working relationship with people you
(27:58):
did not know before this and also you all became
famous all of a sudden, and some of you handled
it really well and some of you didn't. Yeah, the
outside is impacting the inside, and it's all, yeah.
Speaker 4 (28:13):
Well, I and you you don't want to lose touch
with normalcy. And that sounds so stupid, but it's like
I had to learn the hard way. I remember being
on set and like we and it really hit me
because we had a PA on a show who was
(28:34):
a woman, a young woman who was so great, and
it was like her first episode years into the series
getting to run the set, like getting to step in,
you know, to the role of the person in the
ad department above her and run the set. And it
wasn't lost on me that in a big scene we
had plenty of regular background actors, right like people who
(28:56):
come in a lot, you get to know everybody, and
people respected the rules pretty well. You know. Social media
changed things and everyone wants like the bts and the whatever,
and it's like, that's not what we're here for. But okay,
but it really irked me that this group of folks
that like I considered to be in the fam in
(29:16):
the background would not stop taking pictures even though there's
an express like network policy that you do not do
that on set, and anytime anyone was doing it, and
the older man who's like, you know, fifty and in
charge normally running the set would say, don't do that.
People would put their phones away, but this woman who
was thirty and very physically small was running our set,
(29:41):
and this group of people like kept doing this, and
I finally walked over and was like, guys, what are
we doing? Like please don't disrespect her, Please don't disrespect us,
like this is our house, you know, please be cool,
and like don't treat don't treat her because she's a
young woman, like her instructions don't matter, her opinion doesn't matter,
or her authority is unrecognized, okay, And like I didn't
(30:04):
think I was being rude at all. And it turned
into this whole thing where you were like, you're an
actor and you can't talk, like you can't do that.
You always have to let someone else be the bad guy.
And I was like, no, no, I don't want to
turn into the person that becomes infantilized so that I
(30:26):
can appear perfect, Like, guys, what are we doing?
Speaker 3 (30:29):
Like to be fair, you have a shortcut to be
able to cut the Yeah, you know the set, you
know those people, and it's like yeah.
Speaker 4 (30:37):
And if you feel shamed by that, you deal with
your feelings. But it was this really interesting thing. It's
an example that like popped out of my brain. I
haven't thought about it in a long time because I
was like, oh, it won't even be that you change.
It's that the way people perceive your humanness changes. It's
that you are allowed to be less and less human
(30:59):
because they believe you are more and more privileged. Yes,
And it's like, actually, I become a privileged idiot if
I become less human if I won't allow that, and
I go get it. I go get someone on the staff,
on the crew, and I'm like, you need to go
talk to those people. I'm like, what are we doing?
Are we turning into the people that are like, don't
look at me, don't eye contact with me like you.
(31:22):
I would never, I would sooner die.
Speaker 1 (31:24):
Yes, it's because we've seen it happen.
Speaker 2 (31:28):
We have seen it.
Speaker 1 (31:29):
You guys, this is not that serious.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Come on, well, yeah, you can't allow that to happen
because then you become less human and it gets taken
away from you in a way, I don't, but your
integrity gets taken.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:45):
Sorry, he said, it's so beautifully that I'm not even
going to try and repeat it.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
Well, I don't really know what I'm saying, other than
it's like this very tricky.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
It's a very tricky balance and like line that we
toe where we are under our microscope much more than
other people, and what we do say is often taken
out of context and can be construed as being a diva,
a bitch, especially as a woman on a set, in
(32:16):
a leadership position, and it becomes something that I don't
want to feel scared to be who I am and
lead with strength and kindness and have that be misconstrued.
But I'd rather be misconstrued than not say anything at
all exactly. So you guys, you know, that's their vision
(32:41):
of what we are supposed to be and who we
are supposed to, how we're supposed to come off, and
how we're supposed to be handled and have other people
handle our business. But you learn over time and have
to deconstruct that in other people who have not been
in the position that you're in. Yeah, that's kind of
what we try to do.
Speaker 4 (33:01):
And I think you know, somebody recently was like, God,
why are all the actors like all talking about their
feelings and therapy lately? And I'm like, well, because our
literal jobs are to show up and be emotionally healthy
enough to emotionally manipulate ourselves into acting out other people's feelings,
(33:23):
and then be healthy enough to then leave those feelings
at home and go have your real feelings in your
real life. It requires an immense amount of emotional and
psychological inventory and willingness to communicate and admit imperfection, and
you know, learn to be less and less judgmental, Like
(33:45):
it's not always easy to play a character who's an
asshole or who's like nuts, and you have to go
in and like be these people and not judge them or.
Speaker 2 (33:53):
For nine years.
Speaker 6 (33:54):
Yeah, you're supposed to be this person and live in
this body for nine years and then exit it immediately
every day and then after nine years also become who
you are again.
Speaker 2 (34:06):
Yeah, it's a big feat.
Speaker 4 (34:17):
Was it weird for you when when the show ended?
Like how did you do that? How did you leave
her at work.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
At the end of the show, like when the series ended?
Or every day?
Speaker 4 (34:31):
Well, I mean I guess either whatever comes to mind. Sorry,
I'm a guest on your show and I'm interviewing.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
That's great. Please.
Speaker 2 (34:37):
I don't feel like I left her every day. I
feel like I inhabited her for a very long time
and we were one for and that was also troublesome.
The character started to meld into me and I started
to meld into her. And also didn't help that the
writers were writing to that.
Speaker 4 (34:52):
Oh no, you don't say.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Right when we walked away from the show, especially in
our In my personal life, I actually moved out of La,
I moved home. I didn't speak of it, I didn't
look at it. I got other work, I ran, I
said see you later, La, and I did other projects
(35:15):
and that it really helped me kind of shake shake her.
But in audition rooms though, in that interim people, I
had a really hard time. I had a really hard
time shaking everything from the tone, the pace, the way
I spoke, the intonation and just inhabiting Dina and people
(35:38):
couldn't separate it because I couldn't separate it. Yeah, it
was very, very hard, and that's why I never talked
about that. We haven't, Kevin, I have to dive into that. Well,
we're getting to the Anniversity series anyway, so we'll talk
about it.
Speaker 3 (35:52):
I think I had a similar hmm, you see, like
red carpet photos from that time. I was really trying
to fight against the character so hard. Outside of Paramount,
it was like I am not that person, Like I
was a very clear divide. And then when they did
(36:13):
start writing, you know, more of me in it, I
was like, it was a little hard, but I think
we were quite different, especially like the whole gay thing,
Like there was more of a divide between me and
who already was. Yeah, but any audition during it and afterwards,
(36:34):
and every now and then with each new job, so
I'll like find a little thing that I didn't realize
was like still in there, Like it just came up.
It just happened recently, and I don't remember what. I
don't know if it was how I said a word
or it was like a physical movement.
Speaker 1 (36:49):
All of a sudden.
Speaker 3 (36:50):
I was like, oh no, there is Oh God, I
gotta put that away, Like this is not your show,
but it's very It is very because I didn't think
I'm like that type of Yeah, I don't know actor,
but like it, Yeah, when you inhabit a body like that,
for so long.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Oh my god, it's scary.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
How you leave it?
Speaker 2 (37:11):
How did you leave it?
Speaker 4 (37:14):
I don't even know, because I made her, but she
was also her own person. But I fought for her
and I shaped her. And there are things about us
that are really similar and things about us that I
think are very different. And it's sort of like, h
it's like she's my fraternal twin, Like we're not the same,
(37:34):
but we're exactly the same, you know. And there are
some people, Yeah, there will be people who come up
to me and they're like, oh my god, I'm Brooke
Davis's biggest fan, and I'm like, bet, I promise you
I am.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
Yeah, yeah, right, like I made her, yeah.
Speaker 4 (37:50):
You know, and I love it and we always giggle
and then I'm like, no, way, okay, but all kidding aside,
Like what why do you say that. I'm like, I'll
tell you why. I say that. It is really interesting,
and I think for me, especially because I felt like
I fought so hard for her, because in a way,
I was learning how to fight for myself and I
(38:11):
didn't know how to yet. Having someone else to fight
for gave me much more kind of strength than I
had for me. So I fought for her, and I
wanted her to be complex and real and to have
motivations and you know, not to just be this like
archetype of a person. And now it's interesting, like I
(38:35):
really got into some things with some viciously anti science
nightmarish people this week on the internet at Shocker, and
a bunch of people were like, holy shit, you really are,
Like this is so Brooke Davis. And I was like,
this is me and I guess this is her because
this is how I found myself while I played her.
I just absolutely refused to like let people be hideous
(38:59):
to women, let alone hideous to women experiencing pregnancy loss,
like we're not doing this. And I just was like, oh,
did you think I wasn't going to say something? And
I was like this is where this is where like
the two lines crossed, it's the same and.
Speaker 2 (39:18):
Dias there, it is there.
Speaker 1 (39:22):
It is Wow. That broke my brain a little bit.
Speaker 2 (39:24):
Just now, sorry, wait why we were so young?
Speaker 1 (39:29):
We were so young. I fully.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
Learned how to speak up for myself during the process
of the show, and not until very late in it,
to be honest, But the way I felt comfortable speaking
up was sort of behind the character, like under the
guise of this is about the character, or like a
very specific thing about me with the character, and I
(39:52):
felt comfortable doing that in certain situations. Yep, and I
do think. And then Alaratie was written much more confident
than I ever was. I mean, yeah and so and
so I think yeah and so. I think living between
those two worlds of like slowly learning how to do
it behind the scenes and then on camera having that
(40:15):
confidence and also being surrounded. I always say it though,
like the girls on the show, just watching them operate
within that space completely taught me how to speak up
for myself.
Speaker 1 (40:26):
But I did never realize that.
Speaker 3 (40:30):
I also learned that from all the reasons why you
just said yeah, Like.
Speaker 4 (40:35):
I think about even still, I am an adult. It
has been so long. No one is meaner to me
than me. When the internet tries, I'm like.
Speaker 2 (40:44):
Oh, yeah, good one. There's no world you don't.
Speaker 4 (40:48):
Live in this brain like enough, I've heard it all before,
I've said it to myself before you ever could have.
But that is where we're so different. Brooke Davis would
be the kind of person who'd be like, I'm so
sorry you've a problem with me. I'm fabulous, right, And
when I'm really in whatever version of a spiral I'm in,
I'm like, oh, I could choose to be more like.
Speaker 2 (41:09):
Her, yeah, and move on with my day, like people
do that dream inspiring, right, You created her to aspire
to her.
Speaker 4 (41:18):
I was like, we have the intersection of the X
and then we have these places where we could not
be farther apart, and I aspire. I aspire.
Speaker 2 (41:27):
Yeah, we have this thing, Kevin and I, and we're
finding more and more a lot of people also who
have been on long standing TV shows, the days meld
into each other. Obviously we're in the same set, same places.
Sometimes there's things that you can't recollect, like having what
did you ever learned yesterday? You know, it feels like that.
(41:50):
But there are scenes and numbers and places we've been
that we're rewatching where we feel like I am out
of body because alarmed at how little my memory has
given me from that moment. I don't remember it. Usually
I can remember by the costume, yeah, because we had
(42:11):
just very unique and colorful outfits to wear. It's also
probably because of the trauma, like after Corey died, all
the episodes that we're watching right now, during season five,
there's like very little that we remember doing. But I'm curious, like,
have you had that experience in rewatching your show?
Speaker 4 (42:31):
Oh?
Speaker 2 (42:32):
Absolutely, Okay.
Speaker 4 (42:34):
What's almost weirder to me is when there's an episode
that ends on a cliffhanger and we'll wrap the podcasts
and I'll be like, you, guys, do you remember what happened?
Speaker 2 (42:46):
What happens to totally we should know, but I no
idea a seasons And then there's this.
Speaker 4 (42:54):
Weird thing that the inverse where a scene will start
and it's literally like I can smell Wilmington. I know
what temperature it was that day, Like I I remember walking,
you know, down Front Street and being able to smell
the waffle cones that they started at Killwinds at like
eleven am. Like it's so visceral, it's like I am teleported. Yeah,
(43:20):
And then there are major things that happen and I go, wait,
was what? It's like I wasn't even.
Speaker 2 (43:26):
There and I'm clearly on camera.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
Yes, Jenner has started texting me being like, I'm watching
myself in this scene, but I don't know of being
in this scene, the sceneisting, and it's really freaky, but
it is right yes, I'm glad.
Speaker 1 (43:45):
It seems to be.
Speaker 3 (43:45):
There's like a consensus though amongst people in the same POSISI.
Speaker 4 (43:50):
Remember, And there are things that I remember so clearly,
like so clearly I could I could reblock the experience, yes,
And then things that I'm like, well, that's a fun,
fun trip.
Speaker 2 (44:05):
I didn't know I could do that.
Speaker 4 (44:09):
It's so weird.
Speaker 3 (44:10):
It is really weird, especially after nine seasons. I don't
know how.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
Oh my gosh, I just.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
I don't know how you would remember, Like we only
have six seasons and we don't remember. It's like a
glorified five and a half. But like we hardly were, like, m.
Speaker 4 (44:26):
Sure, but like, guys, you were also doing full choreo
recording like you you basically did. You did a TV
show and a Broadway show at the same time, which
is not actually normal for a human.
Speaker 1 (44:40):
It was not.
Speaker 2 (44:40):
No, none of this is normal. But no, no, it's normal.
Speaker 1 (44:44):
It's weird, none of it.
Speaker 3 (44:54):
Going back, you know, watching these things now, we love
getting to interview people who worked on the show in
different capacities and hearing those perspectives just like this where
we're discovering like, oh my god, that's what you meant
by that or oh yeah, we like going and like,
you know, working through the trauma that we didn't necessarily
realize we had had at the time, has it been healing?
(45:19):
And because it's felt more celebratory for us, I think
going through it now and being able to with time
in the distance, be like, look at this, We're proud
of this, and look what we did and oh that
day was tough, and let's talk about it. But we've
been able to sort of it feels like a little
therapy session every time we have a guest on to talk.
(45:40):
But like, looking back for all of you, have there
been things that have come up that you maybe didn't
expect or realize and have been nice to sort of
talk through.
Speaker 4 (45:49):
Oh? Absolutely. I mean even when we first started, we
watched I want to say it was the first two,
maybe it was the first three, but I think it
was the first two episodesisodes together to kind of just
get in the groove of it, and we sopped, just sopped,
and I was like, oh, I wasn't prepared for that
(46:12):
feeling of like look at what innocent, like little babies
we were. We had no idea what we were in for,
and like, yeah, there's there's things that I think you
just have no clue you're going to experience. I think
I think what's felt really nice is realizing, oh yeah,
(46:34):
I now see this the way other people see it.
I get why this was a thing in the zeitgeist.
I get why this is people's comfort show. We did
something really great. And for all the jokes we crack
and all the whatever, like Hillary loves to be like, yeah,
look at all the tears we made people cry with
that shitty script. Could you imagine if we'd had the
script on an HBO show, Like you know, some of
(46:56):
our scripts were great, some were clearly not, like Hi
Early Aughts on the CW. But I'm really proud of
what we did. And I think for a while I
didn't feel like I was allowed to be or maybe
I didn't deserve to be and it it is very
cool to have the distance and then look back and
get it.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
Yeah, it feels nice.
Speaker 1 (47:18):
That's great.
Speaker 2 (47:18):
Well, speaking of so you guys are doing a reboot
if you will, of your show. Would you call it?
What would you call it?
Speaker 4 (47:29):
I would call what is in development? That was Unfortunately
it leaked about. We had an announcement to make no,
it's totally fine, but I would say it's like I
would say, it's a phase two because people have asked
for it for so long, and I think when people
(47:51):
were asking for it, initially all of us said absolutely not,
and then we started to think like, well, what if,
what if it was a perhaps, and what if Nike
the first time the women were in charge, and what
if we could do something really beautiful? And what's been
(48:15):
really special? And I will say I really appreciate, Look,
everybody does their jobs, like everybody toes the line of like,
we don't know, we'll see what happens, because that's what
we've been told to say. But like the cat's out
of the bag now, and our dear friend who started
talking about it in front of someone they shouldn't have
been lovingly reprimanded.
Speaker 2 (48:37):
It's fine.
Speaker 4 (48:38):
But what I will say is it has been the
most inclusive process and that is something I really cherish.
I appreciate that everyone was like, we're gonna say no comment,
and I was like, guys, everybody already knows. We tried
that for like two months or three months or whatever,
and I'm like, it's not working, but it's been really
(48:59):
what's been really special is to be able to be
in the sort of original group of our family and
hear everyone's excitement and everyone's trepidation and why people are
into it and why they're afraid of it, and what
they would want and what they would need. And the
(49:20):
thing that I think is the coolest is, you know,
everyone's gone on to write, produce, direct, be so creative
that what's been really beautiful for me in you know,
partnering with my friends and learning from these amazing women
and the women we all are today is I love
(49:41):
seeing what everyone wants their characters to be doing now.
And even if you know, through this development process, let's
say we don't wind up shooting this thing, what it's
like given me the world building I've seen from all
the women and all the men you know who helped
build the show from the first season, and it's like,
(50:02):
my heart feels really full. I feel like I've gotten
to see it, even if no one else ever does.
And and that's the thing that I cherish because we
get asked, as you guys, I'm sure, do you know
at these conventions or these events, people are like, what
do you think your characters are doing now? And I
have loved watching our showrunner develop what all these sort
(50:26):
of core characters originally answer those questions with the people
who made them the iconic characters.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
That's so special.
Speaker 4 (50:34):
That's really cool. So wherever it goes, it's it's really.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
Been like when yeah, exactly the rest of it.
Speaker 4 (50:42):
And because I love you both and you know what,
it's like, I'm giving you all the information that thank.
Speaker 3 (50:46):
You, no idea fine, It's like it was leaked and
then it just stuck to all the brains.
Speaker 4 (50:56):
Well and then everyone's like, oh, we don't know, and
like they're trying to correct jokes and like sweet Paul
and Barbara and an event like started joking around because
like you know, Paul's character died, so he was like,
I'll try to take this one, and I'm watching everybody
be like, uh, Meanwhile, I'm thinking about like the pages
of character development I've seen that they've all submitted that
(51:17):
they're so good, and I was like, at some point,
we're just gonna have to like say, everyone's brilliant, and
if it winds up on TV, you're gonna love it.
And if it doesn't, we got to have it and
we loved it.
Speaker 3 (51:27):
Right yeah, right, right, So there's been a couple of
years speaking of, you know, being on a show that
was in the zeitgeist. Yeah, there have been a couple
of references in Glee thus far about One Tree Hill.
Speaker 2 (51:41):
Really.
Speaker 3 (51:42):
Yeah, it's so funny because at the time, obviously I
did not know you and not watching idiom like this.
We were yeah, like Heather says, she said in season
two something like I don't want to die.
Speaker 2 (51:55):
And die at least.
Speaker 4 (52:00):
Oh my god, I love it.
Speaker 2 (52:01):
And then we're watching right now there's a band that
Chris call For, Adam Lambert and Demie Levado, Liamshelle and
Iya Rivera are part of, and it was called Pamela
Lansbury but now it's One three Hill. Oh, I mean,
you guys are overlaps. So yeah, it's just so funny.
Speaker 4 (52:21):
Yeah, I don't know that. The such referential stuff was
always really funny to me. We we're in our seventh
season on our pod and there's the whole storyline where Julian,
who winds up being Brook's husband, is, you know, making
this movie of Lucas's book, and Brooke is like, well,
what are you going to do? Hire one of those like,
(52:42):
you know, hot little ships from the CW to play
me or like whatever, and it's so, oh my, what
are we doing? This is so stupid they are doing
but like everyone just can't help themselves.
Speaker 2 (52:56):
No, no, it's point.
Speaker 1 (52:59):
She's seven. You know you used to try it out. Yeah, you.
Speaker 2 (53:04):
Start to be like, we're in on the joke too,
And now you're You're a guest star on gris Anatomy,
which is one of my another massive, massive show. So's fun. Yeah,
I Hillary went.
Speaker 4 (53:20):
On Joy was on at some point and then it
like turned into this thing where all the Grays fans
were like, we got together, we got together, we got
to get her. And because of COVID, even though we
only did the one season of Good Sam, I was
attached to the project for almost three years and so
I just like couldn't And then I went to London
(53:42):
and did my play and then we were on strike
and so they were just like, can we please finally
give the fans please? I was like, yeah, I was
playing a surgeon and it was really fun to get
on set because their medical supervisor was like, we've literally
never had an actor who needed no training. This is
so fun and it's also really fun for me.
Speaker 6 (54:02):
Yeah, And I was just like doing whip stitches and closing.
Speaker 4 (54:06):
Up a surgical thing, and I was like, this really, like,
I actually love playing a doctor. And the pro tip
of it is is when you get to be in
scrubs at work all day, you're basically in pajamas and
I dream.
Speaker 3 (54:17):
This is also why we're going to your house. If
the apocalypse happens, you can stitch us up.
Speaker 4 (54:23):
Yeah, actually I really could. I think I'm.
Speaker 2 (54:25):
Pretty good at it. Wow, that's fine. Have you gotten
to cross paths with Harry Shum.
Speaker 4 (54:30):
No, we don't have any overlap yet. And you know,
much like any show that's been on for that long,
they're so efficient that I'd either not been at work
when he's at work because I keep trying to find him,
or when we're both at work, we're on two different
units and we're like in literal different places, and I'm like,
(54:52):
one of these days, I'm going to see my friend
and I'm acoling in the breezeway.
Speaker 3 (54:57):
He's talked about that schedule and it just sounds one.
He's like, they have been doubt.
Speaker 4 (55:02):
It's unbelievable. It's literally it's kind of like going to
work at Disneyland. You're like, Wow, this is possible. You
mean this green and this nice and you can go
home before your whole family's asleep.
Speaker 1 (55:20):
Wow?
Speaker 2 (55:21):
Yeah yeah wow. Because this is a Glee podcast, what
do you think Brooke would be? Like? Who do you
think she would be in our world in Glee?
Speaker 4 (55:36):
In Glee?
Speaker 2 (55:38):
Oh, like, where would she fit like in the high
school years?
Speaker 1 (55:43):
Yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (55:45):
Oh? I mean I would have had so much fun
cheering with all the girlies. Yeah, you know. I also
think it actually could have been something I don't know.
I I think very similar, like to Brooke and Mouth's friendship.
I feel like Brooke and Arty would have been great friends.
And I feel like because she started close over bros
(56:07):
in high school, like I could have been like making
the ensembles for the numbers.
Speaker 2 (56:12):
I think, yes, Okay, what is there a song do
you think that she might sing?
Speaker 4 (56:19):
I mean, I don't know what her song music, thank you.
I don't know what her song should be. I remember
like the just the feeling in my bones of when
I think it's when Gwyneth Paltrow was in whatever that
season was, and it was when Umbrella had come out,
(56:40):
and I was like, I want to do that, And
then all these years later on lip sync Battle when
Tom Holland did it and broke House down. I was like,
this song. The fact that I have never been able
to do a version of this song on any show,
be it a variety show or a TV show, is
like it haunts me. I want it so bad.
Speaker 2 (56:58):
That okay, I'm open to a so I get it.
Though you got to get out of you. You would
have fought for That's the way you would have fought
for it. I get it. I get it.
Speaker 4 (57:06):
I would have really loved it.
Speaker 2 (57:08):
I would like to see that and like the water choreo,
It's just it was pretty great. It was very hard
to shoot, but it was great.
Speaker 1 (57:16):
Yeah. When it's pulling in your lap.
Speaker 2 (57:19):
Were like full, like to the top of the rain boot.
This is like when people.
Speaker 4 (57:24):
Who loved One Tree Hill are like, oh my god,
like Season eight when broke almost drowned. I'm like, yeah,
and I was actually being drowned on set, like trapped
in a vehicle filling with water. For me, it's a no,
yeah yeah, but I'm enjoyed watching it.
Speaker 2 (57:40):
Right.
Speaker 3 (57:41):
Yes, I'm very bad at gauging, you know, fixing my
face and people are like, I love that number.
Speaker 2 (57:46):
Like you do the same I don't have it in
me anymore. Sophia, thank you so much for taking the
time out of literally one of the busiest people. I
think you're bear Hollywood or in the world, fighting for
justice and human rights and also just a beacon of
(58:11):
light in the industry. Thank you so much for being
with us.
Speaker 4 (58:18):
We did it, we did all. We done our work,
and we're joyful little beings.
Speaker 2 (58:23):
We really did it. We did it, we made it.
Speaker 4 (58:27):
I love you all.
Speaker 1 (58:28):
I love you.
Speaker 3 (58:29):
Thanks so much for being here. It's nice that we
could do this and record it because she and I
have had conversations over the years because how many people
it's a small industry, and then the people who have
had crossover being in a teen show that became a
big thing when you were young, and it's even smaller,
(58:49):
and so it's it is really nice to find people
to be able to talk about it without judgment and
to just be like, this is a crazy thing we're doing.
Speaker 1 (58:57):
Isn't it? Like how what is this for you? Yeah? Exactly?
Speaker 3 (59:02):
Like how many people can say we've been there, I
know what you feel like.
Speaker 2 (59:07):
And it's interesting to have such similar She's so different,
like obviously she is her own person, but like to
have such similar experiences on their show. And yeah, in
many ways, yes, it's actually distant lightening to hear other
people's experiences that are so similar because so much resonates.
Speaker 3 (59:23):
And go listen to She has two great podcasts. One
is Work in Progress and one is Drama Queens, which
is the recap podcast about One Tree Hill. So go
subscribe download all of those. Thank you so for being here.
We love you and that's what you really missed. Thanks
for listening, and follow us on Instagram at and That's
what you really miss pod. Make sure to write us
(59:45):
a review and leave us five stars.
Speaker 1 (59:47):
See you next time
Host
Jenna Ushkowitz
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