April 10, 2025 • 64 mins
Get ready to sparkle with Glee when superfan Dylan Mulvaney stops by to spread joy and share some hilarious stories involving the show!
The author and influencer admits what Glee meant to her growing up, going to the live tour in San Diego after suffering an unforgettable hair color mishap, singing and partying with Chris Colfer, and the reveal of all reveals ... the gleeking roles she auditioned for which send Jenna and Kevin into hysterics!
Plus, Dylan details what's come true on her vision board, what she is manifesting that might affect all of them, texting with Gaga, and her bestselling book, "Paper Doll," which is available now!
For fun clips and more inside scoop, don't forget to follow us on Instagram @andthatswhatyoureallymissedpod!
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
And that's what you really missed with Jenna and Kevin
an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Welcome to and that's what you're the most podcast. We
have a icon today.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
An icon, a legend, an original gleek like I cannot
even and stayed till the bitter end.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yeah, and it really was bitter our gleek of the
week this week, Dylan, I cannot believe it. I'm so excited.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Chris is BFF and she needs really no introduction, Like,
if you don't know, get out of here. If you don't,
this is a great way to get to know. That's true.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Sorry, I'm not going to shame you, Okay, Dylan, Molvanie everybody.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
I'm in a bed and I thought, you know what,
They're not going to judge me for that.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
No, you know what, I want to get in bed, so.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I do like tiny room at iHeart because my WiFi
is not working today. So I'm literally in a hair
and makeup like set right up against the light.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yeah, you're lighting is good.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
Kevin, thank you called them and they were like, yeah,
I guess you can come here.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yea in this closet.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
I'm like, trauma, Yeah, put you back in the closet,
and I have another apology for you. I'm sorry I
had to cancel that first time that we were going
to record. I will tell you that too. It was
the first press tour I've ever done for anything, and
I didn't know what that meant, to the extent of
like you saying yes to everything and then finding out
(01:36):
that you can't, Like it was before I think, and
I was like, I like the world started to like
shut down and close it on me, and I was like,
I don't think I would make it to the next
two weeks. But I did hear through our dear friend
Chris that you guys went worked like what a year
and a half straight for a period of time there
(01:57):
at the beginning. So mm hmm, yeah, I just had it.
I had a brief few weeks of that and I
needed a moment. But now we're here.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
No, no, don't even worry about it. We get that
you're preaching to the choir. We get it.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
We fully It is good for you for just saying,
you know what, I can't advocating for yourself because so.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Hard it is, especially when it's like you did something
really big, like you released a book. That is so
hard and then you're like, well, I need to be
out there doing everything. And I ran into you at
the Elton John after party Oscar thing.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Yes, and we've seen each other a few times.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah, what did I say? What did I immediately do?
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Immediately started apologizing and I was like, girl, don't you
really and you told me.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
What was going on?
Speaker 3 (02:46):
I was like, no, the positive is exactly what Jenna
just said. Okay, you shook a moment and you're like,
you know what, I can't do.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Everycate right now.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
I don't remember the profuse apology there, because then maybe
I wouldn't have come in with a hot like apology.
I think I maybe am, like I can't remember anything,
like it is really getting scary the amount of things
I like just completely slipped my mind.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
This is great because we spend half of this podcast
talking about how we don't remember anything, and so this
one write in the club because that crazy. It's like
when you were doing all of these things, they all
start to run together, plots to get through the day, right,
like when you like talk about like what you might
(03:32):
have had to do in a single day in your
press tour.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
Oh, I mean that was it was giving three podcasts,
two talk shows fitting and uh like it it was.
I think what's weird is making something and then like
having to then talk about it after the fact. It
feels like kind of embarrassing because you're like, I made
(03:57):
this thing, and I hope it's good, but then you're
told that what's important is actually you talking about the
thing yep. And and so I don't know, I think,
do you guys like doing that kind of press stuff
where you're like being shuttled from room to room.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
No, who likes talking about themselves that much?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I think I think like the project itself, like you know,
if you care about it, of course you want to
promote it and talk about being okay of course, Yeah,
but there's like a limit to like, then the questions
that you get aren't always about.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
That thank you, And I will say I was really
excited to go into some of those spaces and not
have it be for social media and have it be
for like a tangible, real thing that I wrote, because
I think a lot of the times there is still
the stigma of like you know, going viral online, and
then I think still the word influencer is very like
(05:00):
triggering to me in a way.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Because I started in theater.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
I spent my entire life doing musical theater, and then
to get put in this other box was kind of alarming.
But I will say I had these weird flashes of
like when I was on the View or certain like
kind of maybe spaces that weren't as queer friendly or
just you know that we're doing some more journalism that
(05:26):
was less fun for me or less about the book,
and it felt more about my identity, and I think
that was really crazy of like having to speak on
behalf of community, which I never want to do or
sign up for. Or I'm being asked about sports like
trans people in sports and I'm like I never played sports,
(05:49):
Like like why am I'm not that girl? But I
do feel confident enough in my Glee watching abilities to
be on this podcast right now, so so, and and
there was I got. I had this feeling when I well,
I was going to say when I got into bed today,
but when I stayed in.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Bed today to be on this podcast.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Then I was not going to be thrilled about trans
people in sports.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
I just had this I mean, I promise, okay, okay,
we promise.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
So there's a new build. I'm kidding, I don't even know.
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
One of my favorite like tidbits about you, Dylan, is
that most people know you from like your journey on TikTok,
and you are getting put into this box, but you
are through and through a musical theater queen.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Yes, thank you. It's all I care about.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
It's like why I live and why I still like
And in a way, I think when I was going
viral on the internet, I just thought, oh, I hope
this helps me get to the stage, and I hope
that like maybe, And then it's funny when I started
to sing online or when I, you know, did something
like a theater sketch, people would be like, whoa where
did this come from? And it is funny when you
(07:05):
try to like soft launch like the musical theater energy
into the mainstream, because there's usually a lot of pushback.
But I think now it has a.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Lot of good will with the people you know, Yes, and.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
Now they trust me enough to well And honestly, this
book is like when I think about who it's for,
it's for theater kids, and it's for people that watched
your show. It's for I mean, I write about something
very specific was my experience auditioning for musical theater colleges,
and because I last night I looked up Glee, like
(07:40):
to see where all the hits would be. But the
one specific, bigger story of my relationship to Glee was
that I thought Neoto was a real place. I was
going to go there, and then I found out that
it was like Julie Are or like, like that's what
I thought it was. So then I, I mean, the
(08:01):
the home screen of my phone was Juilliard. I was
going to Juilliard for musical theater. Then the shock of
going onto the website like this is senior year and
I'm like going to sign up for musical theater and
they don't have music and I went oh and and
so I was like, well, I guess I'm auditioning for
the acting program with him. And then it said you
(08:22):
needed Shakespeare monologue, and I guess I'm not going here.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
No.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
I mean, I still really put all, I threw my
full into that audition, but it didn't work out. It
did not work out, and I think that that's okay
to go to Niada and and we're not all meant
to go to Jilliard.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
No, I did audition for Juilliard as well.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
It was one of my only college auditions and I
didn't get it. Didn't go well, look at us now,
exactly at us now here we are okay. So, because
you were and are a musical theater junkie, I'm curious
how you got into glee where you were in your life,
(09:10):
where you physically were like the whole thing. But also
like now, I'm curious when the musical theater park started
or was it like straight out the room?
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Yes, yes, yes, yes. Well I will start out by
just telling you that I'm so happy to be on
this with you both because you mean so much to
me and young Dylan and I started theater when I
was well. I started dancing when I was three years
old in San Diego, where I'm from. But I live,
like I always say about San Diego, like the farther
(09:41):
from the beach you get, the more that they don't
love gay people. And I lived very far from the beach,
and so I was said little town called Alpine, California.
I was the only boy in the dance school, and
I felt really lucky that my parents even let me
do that. And I started auditioning for The Grinch at
the Old Globe and I was like six years old.
(10:01):
Finally booked it when I was ten because I found
out you didn't just have to dance, you also had
to sing. And then oh my god, what year? What
did what year did Glee start?
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Two thousand and nine?
Speaker 4 (10:13):
Okay, that meant I was twelve, twelve or thirteen? And
I remember watching the pilot episode with my mom. Was
it after American Idol madea or sink you we were
already avid American Idol watchers. This was It also came
during a time where like I was in the thick
(10:35):
of going through puberty, which was like I mean, the
the hormone spikes and the fighting with my parents and
like because I hated what was happening to my body.
But then I also I was such a mama's kid
in a way, and I think that as our it
was almost like our relationship was like measured by Thursday
(10:58):
nights watching Glee or was it Wednesdays or Thursdays?
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Switch? Sometimes it was Tuesdays, sometimes it was Wednesday.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Okay, would we would record we would record it if
if I if it was a dad weekend because my
parents got divorced, but I I would basically like me
and my mom made it like our ritual every week
to watch the thing. And I grew up super Catholic
and conservative, and so it's funny that like that was
(11:26):
the thing, but I do think that was where we
found the common ground, whether it was through and I
mean the Kurt Humble character. Even though you know now
I am a trans woman, Like I think back to
my teen years and I just think of femininity as
like the way that I lived my life and how
(11:47):
soft I was, and how even like my singing voice,
I always like I had this like really strong falsetto
that no one would let me use because they said
that boys don't do that right. And then Chris Colfer
walks on the screen and I was like being hit
by a ton of bricks, and because I had never
seen anyone that looked like that, sounded like that, acted
(12:08):
like that, And there were so many parallels, like even
single Ladies, like backstage at the Old Globe during the Grinch,
like it would be me and the adult ensemble women
doing the single Ladies dance on the stage and then
watching that on my screen of being like, oh, oh
my god, there's other people that are like this. Too,
(12:30):
and so that really was a theme. I also I
went to the Glee concert and it was oh I
was there, bitch, and it was one of them in
San Diego I had It was one of three days
that I had platinum blonde bleached hair because I got
I went to the Paul Mitchell School downtown without telling
(12:53):
my parents, sat in a chair for seven hours. It
was bright yellow. They didn't know how to tone it.
And and then when I got home, it was the
night of the Glee concert and she was like, oh
my god, I can't believe we're going to Glee like this,
and it's just like so mortified. And then we immediately
(13:16):
died it back. But I was that blonde fantasy at
that concert. And now I think what's so funny about
like the synchronicities of life is like Glee.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Just keeps coming back into my life.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
Like obviously, you know, Chris and I are now like dear,
dear friends, and that I think is such a pinch
me moment in itself of like that is someone where
I'm like, meet your heroes, because that one really worked
out and we got to talk about Chris, but also
like Josie Toda is one of my closest, closest friends,
(13:54):
and we had this moment early on where we started
to get to know each other and she came over
and she's like, I have something to show you, and
I was like, really nervous, like what that was? And
then she put on she went to my YouTube on
my laptop and put on Lose Lose My Breath Destiny's
Child performance episode where she was dancing, and I was like,
(14:17):
what the Like the lore behind Josie Toda as a
whole She's been on like every single show ever. No,
but she's she's so far from being like theater girl
in my mind, like she's so cool that I'm like, wait,
you were what? And so I just loved And then
now Kevin, getting to see you and Jenna, have I
(14:37):
gotten to meet you in person yet?
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Now I don't think so that's crazy to me.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
That's crazy to me, And now we're going to make
it happen. But Kevin, do you remember one specific kind
of crazy place that we saw each other in?
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Was the box? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (14:58):
Well did in my book in the Box, I almost
want to say that was the first time we met.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
I think it was because I'm a huge fan of
yours and have been like following you online. And I
knew you and Chris were friends, and I knew we
have a bunch of mutual friends. And I saw you
and I was like, oh, thank god, because I also
was like, what am I doing here right now?
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Yes, it was. It was an odd group of it was.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
It was you were sitting on the couch across from me.
I was like sitting in a couch. Everyone else like,
you know, up being crazy and we're like what are
we what's happening? And I saw you and I was like,
We're gonna be okay. Yeah, well I need to go
introduce myself.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
Well, I I write in papered all about how like
the box For some reason, when I was like a
teenager with like a fake ID was like my dream,
Like I had heard of this place and and that
is kind of like weirdly a musical theater pipeline club
for people, because it's like you're dancing for like twenty
minutes and then like the lights go down and then
(16:01):
there's a big show. But obviously it's not a musical.
It's like crazy sexy acts of you know, Jenna, have
you beenauchery?
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yes, yes, it's.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
Oh yeah, it's too much for me insanity. But but Kevin,
I remember seeing you know, I was like, how the
hell did we end up at this place? At the
same time, I think I was sitting on like Lucas
Gage's lap and uh, there's there's a there's a there's
a group of gay people now that exist in our world.
(16:30):
And my my Chris Colfer meet cute though was.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
How did this happen? Because I love seeing your friendship.
I love that like Christmas part of your book tour.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
I got him to sing yeah, you sound great together,
thank you, and I was.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Like, oh, Chris loves this bitch if he is singing live.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Because no, no, no, Chris, I saw him.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
It was bros. It was my first movie premiere I
had ever gone to. And I walked to the carpet
and at that point I had been to a few
events and seeing some people, but I think my literal
like insids just like dropped out when I saw Chris
Colfer across this like AMC downtown or wherever the hell
we were on and I was like, oh, and I
(17:25):
was with er fight Master, who like, is this like
hot non binary daddy? And I was like, oh, my god,
Oh my god, and they're like, what is going on,
Like not the person that I needed for that moment
of like do you realize how big this is? And
and so I was like, I've got to do it,
and I walk up, you know, I introduced myself. Chris
(17:48):
had absolutely no idea who I was, which was so
lovely in itself. And and I one of my favorite
things about that was starting when I started going to
the events, some people had like an idea of like
who I was based on my content or you know,
had some of these like parasocial relationships. But then after
the premiere, we went to the after party and we
(18:10):
started drinking together quite heavily, and I think he was
like I like this girl, and and you know, gave
me his number, and it was like, oh, I'm so
glad that we had kind of an organic.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Meeting in that way. Yeah, and.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
Now we've gone, oh my god, We've gone to Disneyland
together a few times. He took my club thirty three Virginity, which,
like it was, Trump had just been elected in this
past November, and I get I mean, there was such
a a there was a grim energy in the air
of la and I get a text from Chris Colfer
(18:50):
this like you want to go to Club thirty three?
And I was like, I think that is actually the
only situation that could could could heal whatever happening right now?
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Me out of bed.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
Yeah, And I will say Chris is probably the funnest
person to like drink or go dancing totally.
Speaker 5 (19:08):
It's so fun It's so funny you say that because
because Chris like was such a like a sweet, demure,
innocent soul when we met him, and so much has
evolved for him and opened up and I you know,
his all of his experience and our relationship with him,
Like it's just so beautiful to see him living his.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Life the way he is now at his fullest and
like just like not afraid in some way, and like
I don't want to speak for him or what he's
feeling with like it comes across that way, like just
so quintessentially Chris, like roller skating parties and book parties
at a museum. It's just like it breathes like Chris Colfur,
(19:55):
which is the Chris we knew, but we were just
like dying for him to like break out into who
he really is.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
And so that's just like.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Joining himself and you feel the joy from Yeah, he
worked so hard and he still does. He works very hard.
But he worked so hard for so many years and
didn't really give him it seemed like, give himself that freedom,
have to enjoy the success he's worked for and he's
fully realized out there and every time, Like Amber and
(20:25):
I ran into him a couple of months ago, we
were out and we're like, oh no, how are we
going to keep up with Chris?
Speaker 4 (20:31):
And will it just it turned into it a Chris
It turned into a Chris Knight.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
I love it. I love it. So you guys sang together,
Oh my god, there we go.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
That was That was my year too, sort of celebration
to benefit the Trevor Project. And I am really in
division boards and I hid mostly. I would say eighty
five percent of my twenty twenty three vision board had
come true. And then success got to tell people what
(21:05):
it is you want.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
They try to make it happen over here, just happen.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
I then did one for twenty twenty four and I
put his duet, the Get Happy. I just cut out
a picture of them doing that duet, and I put
my face onto Lea's body. And I was like, I
want to do it with Chris Cooper, like that's what
that's what I want, and and I forget exactly like
(21:34):
he kind of just did, like he was like, Okay,
let's do this.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
And it had been a few years since he had
sung live, but it was like I remember. It was
also do you have these moments in your life where
so much crazy cool stuff is happening that you disassociate
and then you don't really like live in it when
it's happening. Oh yeah that I had this, like very clear.
I was like holding his hand. We're in my watching tuxedos,
(22:01):
and I was like, Dylan, you live in this book.
I was like, look into Chris Colfer's eyes and realize
what is happening because you may never feel this happy again.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
I get it. I get it.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
That's what a good moment to check yourself, like be present,
be present.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
That was open. Now I know what you mean.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
But I also had this moment when it was happening
where it was like, what if this is the best
I will ever feel in my entire life and it's
all downhill from this?
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Is it? Like we've peaked.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
I've had so many moments in these past three years
where I've been like, well, I like that's it, that's all.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Like I mean we talked about that in twenty fifteen,
twenty twelve, you know, like that's why we were like
checking things off a bucket list we never thought we'd
ever check off in our whole lives.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Like you fly in a private day.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
You meet Obama, you're meeting, You're going on Oprah, Like
that's it.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Like I don't know what else there is to do,
you know, I don't know, but I think you've proven that,
like there are there's more time, more experiences, because you'd
probably just start surprising yourself.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Yeah, I did just write about there are some things
that I'd still like to do. I would love to
meet Dolly Parton. Still, I really I wanted to perform
I was in the Book of Mormon the National Tour,
but I really want to do a role on Broadway
as a female because I think that is going to
be such a full circle moment because like I grew
(23:33):
up loving theater and that was always my safe place.
But even when I was like going into these characters,
I was always like trying to be something that I
really ultimately wasn't a part of me and my identity,
and so now getting to audition for things, I love
it even more, which I didn't know was possible. But
I'm like, oh, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. Sure,
And I think that a lot of people think of
(23:55):
me as this like activist when I'm like, honey, I
like that. I'm a theater but yeah, I really think
that advocating for trans people in theater and in you know, musical,
TV and film, like, that's something that I really want
to advocate for a while I'm here, because we haven't
gotten to see enough of it, right, Are.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
There any shows or roles that you are dying to do? Yeah,
let's talk about this for a second. Let's talk about like, yeah,
a five year plan, vision board twenty actually get this.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
I have not made my twenty twenty five vision board, okay,
because I going into it, I was a little like,
what is this, you know, legislatively as a trans person,
I was like, what does this?
Speaker 1 (24:51):
What's this year going to give?
Speaker 4 (24:53):
And I was like I almost just want the goal
to be like stay alive and feel safe and and
maybe let's not try to project too much more onto that.
What I will say is that like so many dream
scenarios have happened, so that like I almost feel like
I'm gonna end up doing a vision board at the
end of the year of all the.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Good things that did great, but I love that, but
or maybe we're gonna get it.
Speaker 4 (25:19):
I kept telling myself, like in January, then February of
the March, I was like, you know what, next week,
we're gonna we're gonna make that vision board.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Now too late, Like I don't mind, like a year
of calm, you know, that was my word for the year.
I do a word for the year versus a vision board,
and like my year my word was calm. Now, I
don't know that we've necessarily gotten that starting out in
January and la like, wasn't it commers Yep.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
But I am feeling this thing for you of your
vision board that is like it's okay to have a
calm year and then you know, regroup at the end
of the year and then do one.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Maybe next year instead.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
It's okay, but it has not been a calm year
yet for any of us.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
No.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
I did have one big vision board thing that I'm
gonna put on is do you ever take baths?
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Do you ever do lush bath bombs?
Speaker 4 (26:09):
I got. I got my own Lush bath bomb and
that was like that dream Colloud, like if I'm honey,
if I'm going to be in Capitalism, I wanted to
be at Lush So that.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
That was really hate.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
But I think Clay back to doing theater. I oh,
I would love to play like Glinda one day, dying
to do a trans legally blonde like a cast of
like Twink Delta News. I think would be so fun.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Okay, hello, hello, sweet Charity.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
I think could be really fun too.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
One.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
That's a great one. Really.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
How was Jenna? I know you did Waitress right?
Speaker 1 (27:00):
I did? It was the best.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
How did it? How did it feel to go from
doing you know, performances on television to that?
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:09):
So I had started in theater as well. I was
in and I when I was nine on Broadway, and
then I did Spring and Spring Awakening on Broadway when
Graf and Lee were in it, and then half split,
so I joined while they were in it and then
they left, and then I had the new cast as well.
So I was in both casts right before Lee literally
(27:31):
booked Glee out of Smer awakening, but to return to
the return to the stage after doing so many years
of Glee was like it was weird and scary because
it had been such a long time, but it was
literally the best. One of my favorite experiences of all
time was doing Waitress.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Like there's a.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Few things that I I you would have asked me
during gly like some of your favorite artists. It had
been Sarah Burellis and like, what is the next thing
you want to you was a Broadway musical, so like
I got both again and like it was just it
was literally the best.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Like Sarah was there, Lisey pinched me.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
She helped design like the speakers on the stage as
like an artist that we could hear better, Like with
the sound so the band was coming through the stage,
You're like, God, bless you. The mics were like crafted
so that you didn't have to work that hard for
her music. It was just so nice.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
It was the best. I think about that a lot.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
And then Kevin surprised me actually and came and saw
it and texted me at half hour, which I'll never
do to anybody.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Really, I didn't. You can do that. Some people like it,
some people don't. It was a big day.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
It's like a lot of people there for me, so
I just like it added to like the nerves.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
But Kevin was like, good luck, have a great time.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
At your show, and like a selfie of him like
in front of the Marque.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
I didn't know he was in New York or anything.
So it was great. It was really fun. She was
so good. I was nervous.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
I was watching her because I had never seen her
perform in that way, and so I was sitting in
my chair like I had my mouth.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
I was nervous.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Yeah again, but Kevin, what is on your Broadway vision board?
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Well, Kevin is doing like this is the year of
the musical for Kevin.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
I did my first theater thing last year, yes, spelling bee.
And then I'm going to London to dude.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
I'm doing a concert called we Aren't Kids Anymore The
Savoy but the Savoy.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Oh my gosh, is going to be a The Savoy soon?
Oh my god, it's good. Oh it's going to end.
Yeah wait, that's exciting that But west End, everyone Brittain loved.
British men are so jealous. You guys are going to
London like I can't. I'm actually like so jealous.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
This mads me like I was already happy and excited,
but this just really beside myself.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
But say something weird. I almost like I would love
to become like a West End diva, even maybe over
a broad I love.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
That for you. Yes, can you do that? I did
a g I did a gay cruise. This last like.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
That.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
I went on the gay cruise and I wrote the
show for three days. What I will say is there
was a little bit of like, oh, like, do should
I be taking this gig? Like I just I don't know.
And then I had went to a dinner with Patty
lapone like a week later, and I was like, Patty,
I was just on this gay cruise. She goes, Oh,
(30:40):
I do those all the time. She goes, those are
my favorite gigs. And I was like, oh thank god.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
I was like, look, Patty of Ru, do you do it?
Speaker 4 (30:51):
You show right? Yes in New York, Little Cam.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
I feel like I like the Broadway divas the show.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
I feel like if Glee was running right now, I
maybe would have made a cameo wall Oh.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Oh you would have had a full part. Yeah, I
forget it. You would have had an arc. You know
what you have sang something musical theater, right, not pop
like music.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
Would have had to be musical theater, and I think
it would have been Oh.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Oh, that's the hardest question, you know.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
I feel like I feel like going along with Sweet Charity,
like you would have Deald multiple numbers on our show obviously,
so like I feel like we could have had like
a big Spender number with all the girls, like we
could bring Sugar back and do it, and you could
have actually properly done it. We've done songs on the
show multiple times.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
I will say my favorite Glee sort of like to
like Nor I still listen to this day is Christian
Chenowick's house is not a home or maybe.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
This times literally you I'm not kidding. That's Kelly's favorite
size of the show. He will listen to that on repeat.
Us in London, just like Walking on the River.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
You guys know, there's a new London.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
I don't know if it's new, but it's a nice
crisis in London bar that's like a musically I thought online,
I'll find it for you, but apparently.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
There's like a full Broadway musical bar. I'm so jealous,
you guys.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
And you know what you know what we're gonna sing
at that bar? I do house is not a home.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Oh my god, your words? Ready to go? Your pink suitcase, Kevin,
I'm you have to wait? You have you have a
pink suitcase? Yes? The new away bags that are wait?
Do you two?
Speaker 4 (32:38):
I'm so mad at you no, because I emailed a
way about a month ago and I was like, can
I get some suitcases? They only had the silver gla
I was like, I really want pink, but I'll take
the silver glitter. I got the silver glitter. Two weeks later,
the pink ones come out. Oh other fun fact that
I have to tell you, I auditioned for Young Kurt
(32:59):
back in the day and.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
And are you ready? Are you ready? I'm ready?
Speaker 4 (33:05):
Guess what other character I auditioned for.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
I'm it was.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
It Young Kurt and it was another part in that
episode few years later, Young No Young.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Not Young Apart.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
A few years later Young Kurt was like season two right,
I want to hold your hand, right, I'm gonna get this.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
It was Jake Puckerman. I want to let that sit,
I want to let that sit sweating. Yeah, I might
(33:54):
I might be. I was going to say, I might
be the only one that auditioned for both Young Kert
and Cake. But what I definitely confirm is I'm the
only trans woman that auditioned for both Young Kurt and
Jake Puckerman made for you. I'm not okay, I'm I'm
obsessed without being like the first or the only of
like many different I'm trying to get to be the
(34:14):
first trans person to space right now, and that's the
whole thing in itself. But I can confidently say on
this one that that was correct. I had this manager
that scouted me from high school musical Junior, and she
was very like Joey's agent from Friends, and the amount
of times where it was like You're gonna be amazing,
(34:37):
and and like she well, because I had gone in
for Young Kurt, and then I was like a little
too old. I did look shockingly like Chris pre transition,
and I do think there's also maybe something about me
and Chris playing siblings in something one day on like
a road trip comedy that feels like that feels.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Like maybe a twenty five vision board thing, thank you.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
But then when the Jake audition comes around, I like
it was very obvious that the casting directors were not
like remember that kid that we saw for young Kurt,
We gotta get that one in here. This woman was
like all right, like who knows if she even got
me the proper audition. She told me to show up
at this place and you had me hijacking things left
(35:22):
and right. And I was probably like fifteen or sixteen,
but I had paid like an online school for like
an illegal diploma that I had graduated high school so
that I could even audition for these things. And I
remember going in there and because I think his whole
thing was that he had to like play guitar, and
like there was like maybe some like sports or you know,
(35:44):
something like that, and I just like, th do you
play guitar? I'm like no, And then they're like any
sports background? Not really now, And then I was probably like,
I mean, who knows. I was probably like blackbirds singing,
like like there.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Did you have to sing?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Or no?
Speaker 4 (36:01):
The yeah, I think I had to sing for the audition.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Do you remember what you're saying? That's what I'm trouble.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
It's giving either blackbird or it's giving.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Blackbird for sure, but wow.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Yeah, Well, what was your feeling about auditioning for Glee?
Like that's a big one if you're a fan of
the show. Right like that, it was like fifteen years.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
I mean, I was like, this is it, you know what?
I also the lore of the Glee musical that was
coming to Broadway for many years. I mean that almost
kept me from transitioning because I was like, well, there's one.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Role that I as a man, and it was current
Humble on Broadway, right right, I was.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
I was in that my mom's office computer room, singing
those songs ready to go whenever. And in some ways
I'm still waiting and maybe if there was a role
to still a d transition for, it's that one. We're
still waiting.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Your lips to Ryan's ears.
Speaker 4 (37:09):
Yeah, literally, how about did you know anything about that musical?
Speaker 2 (37:13):
We had heard the words of it, but it never
it never got pasted, literally like people talking about it,
not not Ryan, not anybody. We just had heard, like
I mean, there might be a musical. That one playbill article.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
Was enough to fuel me for like six years.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
That's probably.
Speaker 4 (37:31):
I mean, that was enough to like make me an
audition for like musical theater colleges. Like I was like, well,
there's always the Glee musical.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Maybe that's crazy. That's another one at it to sweet Chair, it.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Wouldn't have been crazy though, like that, it feels like
a very plausible thing at the time.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
I will say, I will say Kevin, like my if
I was to do a vision board right after we
end this call and I put the Glee musical, like
my manifestation skills are so good, it might happen, and
I'm just nervous for all of us.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
That's oh my god, Yeah, you on them for us.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Jake Spickerman, I can't with that. That's never going to
leave my mind.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
And funnily enough, the guy who played Jake Puckerman did
get into Juilliard.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
For Dan. That's what we really messed. That's what we
really messed.
Speaker 4 (38:20):
And I mean our lives will look so differently. We
would know each other in very different contexts.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Yeah, we would wow about Glee.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Obviously you you loved Kurt. There was like a kinship there.
Tell me about like obviously the musical theater thing as well.
But what else about the show kept you watching? And
what about the show did you like hate watch any
of it any of it or like, were there like
unhitch storylines that you felt like were just like.
Speaker 4 (39:01):
I talked till the end.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
I was, oh my god, you're like, you're the person
who watched the rest of the show.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
It was me. But what is weird is that like
the Josie you know Mayron where I forget what her
character's name was, that like slipped my mind completely because
like I was, that's where it really gets to the end.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
There you're like, what did you do? Sure?
Speaker 4 (39:29):
But what I loved was like how it was raunchy,
Like there was so many things that like I think
my mom thought it was going over my head that
it didn't. And during the time, like I was that
twelve year old that was like reading Chelsea Handler like
books and similar, Yeah, it's scary. And I think that
(39:52):
I really, like I was obsessed with any time you
guys were talking about sex or you know, I was
even this morning, I was putting make up on. I was
watching like the Sectionals episode, and I was like, wow,
we're like going And in many ways, there were like
some kids that were probably way too young to be
watching that that because we're singing don't stop believing, Like sure,
(40:13):
I thought it was okay to show your children. Yeah,
but I think that it was always this sort of
like heightened version of reality. And also I'm such a
camp person still, and so my personality is not far
off from what that world looks like. And it's still
(40:33):
it brought me so much peace because like I and
actually I feel like I missed that from TV still
these days. Is that like that really heightened dramatic sort
of like but there was still so much sweetness there
and there was it wasn't past the point of not
being able to get vulnerable. And and I think that
that's what is sad about television now that's like either
(40:56):
really dry humor or you know, not a musical number
to be seen. It's sort of like why it was
so valuable like it was. It was first Lee and
then Smash was another huge one in my rolodex. But
I think that had it makes me sad thinking that
like the younger generation right now doesn't have that like
(41:19):
theater kid pipeline TV show. What is that right now?
Speaker 1 (41:24):
I don't know. Maybe it was a high school musical
TV show.
Speaker 4 (41:28):
Okay, there's what we love, we love.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
Yeah, but yeah, you're right, there's and it walked that
fine line, which I think is sort of like Ryan's
whole bag of like being really satirical and like dark humor,
and there was always space, like you said, Dylan, that
you could always get grounded and have something really meaningful happen.
(41:50):
And being able to do that in the same episode
is crazy. And it always happened, and it always worked,
and we always bought it.
Speaker 4 (41:58):
Yes, And it's a red flag for me when people
say that they can't enjoy that, or like once somebody
starts singing, they like completely check out right. I had
people that went to see the Wicked film and they're like,
I loved all the parts except when they sang, and
I was like that to me, like death, Like I like,
it's it's a Wendy Williams, Like you know.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Just like nope.
Speaker 4 (42:22):
I think that, like the the art of like figuring
out how to get into a musical number in an
acting bee is so funny and it.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
Didn't always work, you know, like sometimes it works better
than others. And I think like with Wicked and when
Glee or any musical is at its best is when
those songs are advancing the story and explaining things the
characters feeling that they can't explain through regular words, And like,
how can I.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
Even feel that can I even go as far as
I feel like the musical theater on the show did
the best job of that, because I feel like the
pop songs didn't always tell the full story where it's
maybe his time moment, like we're going in so many
other places.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
Yeah, Journey for sure. I think you're correct.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
Yeah, it's on now that we've solved Glee.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
What are you listening to? What do you listen to
on the regular?
Speaker 4 (43:17):
Oh my god, I feel like I let everyone tell,
like figure out what the good songs are. I have
been listening to a lot of Juno Sabrina Carpenter that
I and I listened to the same, like seven songs
on repeat.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
I'm a looper.
Speaker 4 (43:32):
We've got a lot of Gaga going right now, getting
ready for Coachella. Oh my god, Perfect Celebrity, Garden of Eden.
Oh it's killer, it's so good, Perfect Celebrity. I did
(43:55):
get to listen to Abracadabra early early, did so lucky
I did.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
Does she ever come on the show? No, but but
I think she likes it. Yeah, she loves it. Confirmed
she yeah, on the Vogue thing. Jenna was in one
of her music videos.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
She yes, So it's crazy. We did a lot of
her music. Obviously, we did episodes for her. Ryan loved her.
She was like the hottest of hot at the time.
And then the guy that I was dating, his friend
whose TV show they were on a TV show together,
was dating Gada.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
They got engaged and so they were He was like, she.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
Was visiting him in Atlanta and I was in Atlanta too,
and so he's like, hey, my my girlfriend wants to
come out or like Lady Kaka rights like yeah, so
she like comes over that.
Speaker 4 (44:50):
She can come.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Yeah, she comes over like a rotisserie chicken and like
apple sapples, like chicken that he had like eaten a
bite of and she's like, I'm so sorry he like
eat some of it.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
I'm like, I also, you.
Speaker 4 (45:02):
Just said Lady Gaga showed up as a rotes stry chicken.
I was like, what does that outfit look like?
Speaker 1 (45:07):
I would have loved that too, works.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
Work for friends game night, It's almost.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
She showed up as a rottach.
Speaker 4 (45:21):
Is what got cut for the VMEs?
Speaker 2 (45:23):
But yeah, then exactly how did you end up in
the And then so we were just chatting, we like
became like buds.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
That night we all went out to a bar, like
so much fun. It was awesome.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
And then I guess I was like on her mind
and she was talking about her in music video that
she was directing.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
It was married the night.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
And then like a couple of days later, I got
a call and they're like, Gaga, I wants like to
know if you want to be in a music video.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
She's directing this her first, it's her directorial debut. I
was like yes. I was like, but there's a slight problem.
I'm shooting Glee and we don't stop working. So she
called Ryan and was like, hey.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Ryan, I would ask if you could release Jenna for
these two days so that she could come and do
my music video.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
It's like yeah, whatever, sure.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
And so nobody gets out to do nobody, but Lady
Gaga calls Ryan. You know you get out, and so
Ryan get graciously like let me out to go do it.
So I did two days on her music video and
it's very brief and like it was a full movie
in the music video that like you didn't get to see,
like nobody saw it, but we shot like a full
short film in her in like in a set apartment
(46:22):
that like and then like you literally catch me if
you pause it and look at the far end of
the actual edit.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
But but I was.
Speaker 4 (46:30):
There, Okay, I'm actually putting on my vision board is
to see the short film that was.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
Oh I want to see that.
Speaker 4 (46:46):
I was gonna say, I'm nervous, Like I was like,
should I just text her and ask for to like
maybe get that on her plate? And there's like can
you imagine getting ready for Coachella and like this crazy
world tour and it's like some trans girl being.
Speaker 1 (46:59):
Like, Hi, can we please see them Marry the Night video.
Speaker 4 (47:02):
I was just talking to my friend on a podcast
and she we didn't get to see that Clinton, So
if you could take time to do that when you're
not rehearsal would be great in your busy schedule.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
Thank you so much. Can you take a picture of
yourself as a registery chick and thank you?
Speaker 4 (47:21):
But if her an idea, you know that's no.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
I know You're welcome, Goga, You're just so you got
like that with GAA. You guys text.
Speaker 4 (47:30):
We are texting, and we're on a tensing basis that
she's an ally.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
She she's for the dolls on every she is saying
it from the rooftops like she's using her full chest
and she gets that. I mean, I think that's kind
of what we need right now.
Speaker 4 (47:46):
Yes, yes, it's so scared, especially I think just in
this industry now, people are scared of like what does
it mean to, you know, hire a transperson, even a
queer person. At this point, there's this like fear and
I don't know what pride looks like, and I don't
know what the kind of bigger picture looks like. But
(48:06):
I at least know the people in my life and
in my circle and the ones that I can depend on.
She's one of them, and I feel so lucky that.
I mean that also, honestly, meet your heroes like that,
like that is what I There's very few people that
I admired that did not live up to what my
(48:30):
young Dylan thought. Coating being with the two of you
right now, I mean, it's so cool.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
You're cool, are you? You're cool?
Speaker 3 (48:39):
Like I know, you probably didn't sign up for TikTok
thinking you were going to be, you know, a gigantic
role model or millions of people's I don't know, and
maybe only experience of like seeing a trans person like
live happily in the ups and downs. And like, but
here you are, like that's no small responsibility whether you
(49:03):
and you've done it in a way that I don't
know how. I don't know how you have, but like
you're here so kind every time I see you, yours
always kind, And I know you have long days. You're
getting it all the time from people, the good and
the bad. But and you're handling it like you are
(49:24):
crushing it.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
We are so lucky.
Speaker 4 (49:27):
We're so lucky to be doing what it is we
love and have gotten to these experiences. I think it's
because I'm camp that I can get through because there
is like I'm like, oh I took a beer company
down that's camp. Like oh I just get a gay cruise,
that's camp. You know, there's like if you can't find
the hilarity in the darkness of what we're all living through,
(49:50):
then I just don't know the point.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
You're right, You're so right.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
Can we talk about this book for a second, because
that's a hard journey in itself?
Speaker 1 (50:08):
Like what was the what was the process for the book?
How was it? Did you enjoy it? Was it hard? Was?
Speaker 4 (50:14):
I think what's weird is going from uh, like every
single day making a new thing putting it out there,
seeing how the world responded, and then waking up the
next day and doing it again. It was so conflicting
because I was like, what do you mean, I can't
put the book out tomorrow?
Speaker 1 (50:32):
And in a way that process right right totally.
Speaker 4 (50:37):
But that really freaked me out because I was like, Okay,
I'm signing up for this thing that will come out
in like three years from now, and.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
I didn't know.
Speaker 4 (50:44):
I was scared because I was like, I don't know
what that looks like. And it ended up being a
really great thing. Because I thought the book was going
to be one thing. Then beer Gate happened and I
grew up so much and it became another. I think
the one piece of it that makes me slightly like
uncomfortable is the fact that, like I this is these
are my twenty five year old words, and I feel
(51:06):
like a little slightly different, you know. It's a little
more earnest than I am now, And I'm starting to
try to let that just be like a gift of like, oh,
how how great that that's a time stamp of that chapter.
But I think that in a way, because of all
the dark parts of what have happened in the last
three years having somewhere to put it that wasn't the
(51:28):
Internet that felt safer. Did you guys, Like, at what
point did you realize the Internet, like when you were
doing the show was like kind of becoming as big
as it did. Like with with your relationship to the
social media.
Speaker 3 (51:47):
Yeah, what we we started really at like the advent
of Twitter. It was like twine. Twitter sort of blew up,
and that's what we did. And so it started off
as like a really positive I would say, the first
season and a half ye, and it started to mirror
what Ryan had always told us about, you know, if
(52:08):
we are lucky enough to have success, it's great, and
they're going to build us up, but just at some
point they're going to tear you down. And I think
having in the back of our minds one having no
previous interaction with social media in that way, because my
Space was not like that. Facebook was not like that.
Like I was on Facebook when you had to get
an invite to get on Facebook, right wow, And so
(52:31):
like that's what we were used to in terms of
social media, and I don't even think there was the
term social media at the time.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
And so.
Speaker 3 (52:40):
I think our relationship to it. It felt really fun
and really positive at the beginning, right where like you
could that instant gratification and like you were meeting people
who were so excited about the thing you were a
part of is so nice and reaffirming and gratifying. That
like being able to interact people like that was unbelievable
(53:02):
and it still is.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
That is like the best thing.
Speaker 4 (53:05):
But it is scary, I think when you know people
do turn on you or when the wrong people find you,
because then people feel like they've got a direct line yes,
and that can be really dangerous because I think what
ended up happening was sort of this like, oh, oh
my gosh, I'm including everyone in my life and I'm
(53:28):
showing them my personal you know, vulnerabilities both internal and external,
and then people start to feel like they have a
right to that and so so hard to scale back.
It's so hard to redefine boundaries with parasocial relationships. And
what is weird too is I always thought that like
(53:48):
maybe people would know me as like a character that
I eventually played, But people really feel like they know me,
and which is such a compliment because that means they like,
you know, the idea of who I even though I
have a thousand other parts to myself. But I think
that did people project, especially like through social media and
starting to get to know you. Was there any part
(54:10):
of them that was like frustrated when you weren't living
up to like the character that they had built in
their heads around you.
Speaker 2 (54:16):
Yeah, yes, yeah, I think it started. That's right, Kevin
has started really positive. And then I feel really lucky
honestly because we were at the dawn. We weren't in
the height, you know, or like the explosion of Instagram
where like stories started to come out like that was
after we were off and that really fast, like I
(54:37):
know what her house looks, like, I know where she
is all the time kind of feeling wasn't there when
we were on Glee and we were really just like
telling vogging from like set, so it felt really safe
in a way.
Speaker 1 (54:50):
Where As like as.
Speaker 2 (54:52):
We started to as it started to the time started
to go on, like towards the end, we started to
see like battles between fans over things, fighting within each
other and cyberbullying and all of that. It was like
really rude and terrible, but it didn't happen until later.
And I think we also got a lot of like
(55:14):
like I didn't write the show, but like they would
hate us for storylines and hate us for things that
we did to other characters and things that we said.
Speaker 1 (55:22):
And then it started to just really snowballs.
Speaker 4 (55:27):
And then what like I built my entire thing on
like telling everyone everything and being honest and all this stuff.
But then you realize when then you're in a place
whether you're behind a contract or it's literally not your
place to speak on certain things and people are demanding
things of you, we were like, wait, this doesn't even
fall under my jurisdiction, yes, or I legally cannot tell
(55:49):
you this thing. And yet that that's what's I think crazy.
I give so much more grace to anyone that's putting
themselves out there, whether it's in the public eye or
they're writing a book or they have a podcast, because
it is it's weird to and it's scary to put
yourself out there. And it doesn't mean.
Speaker 1 (56:11):
That everybody gets like a right to everything.
Speaker 2 (56:14):
Then like, and I do think you're right, Like I
feel like people really do feel like because you are,
this comes with the territory.
Speaker 1 (56:22):
That's what people would say.
Speaker 2 (56:23):
It's kind of like becoming famous on a show when
you're an actor, and they're like, it comes with the territory.
They should just know that if they're getting interrupted during
dinner or they're interrupted while shopping or walking outside, like
that's what they signed up for.
Speaker 1 (56:38):
Actually it's not. It's not what we signed that for.
Speaker 4 (56:42):
Can can I ask a question?
Speaker 1 (56:43):
Yeah that's the way?
Speaker 4 (56:45):
Okay, I just started a podcast. It's called The Dylan Hour,
and yeah, thank you. I find myself over sharing in
really crazy ways on like on podcasts, where I'm like
and then I get done with them, I'm like, whoa,
how did that just happen? How how do you guys
with this what we're doing right now? Like where are you? Like,
(57:07):
have you defined what your boundaries are before you even
go into you know, making all these episodes, or how
does that work for you guys as podcast hosts?
Speaker 3 (57:15):
Great question. We sort of deal with it as it comes.
I think luckily because Jenna and I, I mean had
almost the exact same experience. We're part of the exact
same thing where we have that check and knowledge and
foundational like friendship to be able to tell what's cool
(57:37):
to say publicly and what's not.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
I always like to sell to Kevin though, like there's
a rule like it's not my story to tell, so
if it involves one of our other cast members, I
just say, it's not our story. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (57:49):
There's been a couple of times where I'm like, Okay,
well this thing actually happened behind the scenes and I
don't know, and she's like no. I'm also not one
who likes headlines are like attention like that, Like I'm
not trying to you know, I want our podcasts to
do well, and I want all of that, but I
don't want like the Aden way. Yeah, And I think
it's like we come from a place where this show
(58:12):
and this podcast is about explaining the narrative from our
perspective and only we can tell it from our perspective.
And it's positive and it's light, and there was challenges,
and there was dark times and tragedy and friendship and
fights and like all of the truths that happened when
you were in a family.
Speaker 2 (58:33):
But the reality is like the headlines that you're reading
about the rivals and all of the crap that you read,
it's like a zero zero one percent compared to all
the good things that happened to us.
Speaker 1 (58:46):
On the show and our relationships.
Speaker 2 (58:48):
And so I think we kind of lead with the
positivity and just really laying down the narrative that like this,
this is what was true, this is what was true,
and then like the rest kind of comes and like
we kind of just.
Speaker 1 (59:07):
Exactly exactly. And I think that's maybe what we have
in common.
Speaker 4 (59:11):
It's like trying to always lead with the positive and
the truth, and I think it's it makes me sad
that so much of what media has become is for
the clickbait, where you know, they want the drama, they
want to they want to see people, you know, hurting,
(59:31):
they're hurting others, and I think that's what I don't
ever want to prescribe to. And I think you are
both like iconic hosts for making people feel so comfortable
on here and.
Speaker 2 (59:44):
Well you're a great interview by the way, So I
have thank you.
Speaker 1 (59:48):
I have in the world that you're going to be
a great podcast as well.
Speaker 3 (59:50):
Oh yeah, you're just the best. There's nothing really that
you haven't set your mind to that you've tried to
do and have not just crushed it.
Speaker 4 (59:58):
He The one thing is I really wish Jenna would
come to London.
Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
Oh gosh, I have a small new small child. I know,
so sadly, I don't think they get to London this.
What about a little bit by Ones.
Speaker 3 (01:00:15):
Jenna, I'll buy what severalby ones you want?
Speaker 1 (01:00:19):
Yes, I will. I mean I would love that. Yes,
I will that. He would be really cute.
Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
Yeah, he would good coloring for that.
Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
I would love that. No, you guys have the best
time in London.
Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
Okay, before we let you go, Dylan, we have to
know what is the feeling that.
Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
Glee leaves you with.
Speaker 4 (01:00:42):
Mmm. I think it's like, this is crazy infinite femininity,
because yes, when I think about me dancing to like
rag Doll, or like say a little prayer, or like
in my living room like as a kid, Like sure,
there was plenty of other storylines in there, but it
(01:01:03):
was the femininity within the show that helped me survive
and get to my womanhood and ultimately, like, so much
of who I am now is still that kid that
was like dancing in my living room that to your
show and so and I think it's infinite because it
(01:01:26):
has gotten me this far and it's going to keep
getting me to the next and where me and Kevin
are still listening to houses, not a home, so this
really could be infinite and beyond it.
Speaker 3 (01:01:37):
Oh it is, that's right. We celebrate it. We celebrate
the femininity.
Speaker 4 (01:01:41):
And I.
Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
My eyes were starting to have moisture in them. That
was really beautiful.
Speaker 3 (01:01:47):
And thank you for sharing that, and thank you for
being on here and being so willing to talk about
Glee in depth and share so much of yourself with us.
I know you get pulled in a million directions, so
it means a lot that. Yeah, as much time.
Speaker 4 (01:02:04):
I haven't enjoyed doing this more than just about any
other press thing that I've gotten for this book. And
we made all the way through not one trans people
in sports question.
Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
No, we promised.
Speaker 4 (01:02:19):
That's for that's for my comeback episode.
Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
That's the title You're welcome only talking about. It's thirty
seconds long and it's just about in sports.
Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
Oh well, thank you, thank you so much again for
for just being with us.
Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
It's really such pleasure.
Speaker 4 (01:02:40):
I can't wait to see you in person, both of you.
I'll text you. I'll text you, Yeah, text me.
Speaker 3 (01:02:49):
Go listen to Dylan's podcast, Go by Dylan's book, like
come on, it's you do.
Speaker 4 (01:02:58):
On stage.
Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
See both of us on stage in London Fair.
Speaker 4 (01:03:03):
Yes, yeah, I love you both, love you so much,
love you bye?
Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
What did I tell you? I mean you were right? Wow.
Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
Dylan is the gift that keeps on giving. What a
light for so many people, for me, for us, She's
just the the realist.
Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
And what a great hombo. Love her, love her? Yeah,
I mean, did you make it very Chris's inner circle.
It's pretty good. You're vouched for it. That's like vouching
the highest honor. Good person, good advocate stands for good things, integrity, funny,
(01:03:49):
like smart, charming, like lovely, really really wonderful.
Speaker 3 (01:03:54):
Diagram that she's got going on of friendship, you know,
like guy Chris.
Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
Yeah, and also like I want her to make my
vision board?
Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
Wow? Yeah, can we have a vision board party? Maybe
that's what we should.
Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
Do, Kevin, let's do that off New Year's unless you're
going somewhere else for New Year's.
Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
Let's do it. Okay, Okay, have you made a vision
board for this year?
Speaker 4 (01:04:19):
No?
Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
I tend to write down words and lists, but I
really only made words for this one.
Speaker 3 (01:04:24):
But I mean, like, okay, I'll talk to Dylan. Maybe
we'll just do like a visual party as vision board
party let's do it.
Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
That sounds fun. Okay great. Thanks for joining us, and
that's what you really missed by.
Speaker 3 (01:04:39):
Thanks for listening, and follow us on Instagram at and
that's what you really miss pod. Make sure to write
us a review and leave us five stars. See you
next time.
And that's what you really missed with Jenna and Kevin
an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Welcome to and that's what you're the most podcast. We
have a icon today.
Speaker 3 (00:15):
An icon, a legend, an original gleek like I cannot
even and stayed till the bitter end.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Yeah, and it really was bitter our gleek of the
week this week, Dylan, I cannot believe it. I'm so excited.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
Chris is BFF and she needs really no introduction, Like,
if you don't know, get out of here. If you don't,
this is a great way to get to know. That's true.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
Sorry, I'm not going to shame you, Okay, Dylan, Molvanie everybody.
Speaker 4 (00:51):
I'm in a bed and I thought, you know what,
They're not going to judge me for that.
Speaker 1 (00:56):
No, you know what, I want to get in bed, so.
Speaker 3 (01:00):
I do like tiny room at iHeart because my WiFi
is not working today. So I'm literally in a hair
and makeup like set right up against the light.
Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yeah, you're lighting is good.
Speaker 4 (01:09):
Kevin, thank you called them and they were like, yeah,
I guess you can come here.
Speaker 1 (01:13):
Yea in this closet.
Speaker 4 (01:15):
I'm like, trauma, Yeah, put you back in the closet,
and I have another apology for you. I'm sorry I
had to cancel that first time that we were going
to record. I will tell you that too. It was
the first press tour I've ever done for anything, and
I didn't know what that meant, to the extent of
like you saying yes to everything and then finding out
(01:36):
that you can't, Like it was before I think, and
I was like, I like the world started to like
shut down and close it on me, and I was like,
I don't think I would make it to the next
two weeks. But I did hear through our dear friend
Chris that you guys went worked like what a year
and a half straight for a period of time there
(01:57):
at the beginning. So mm hmm, yeah, I just had it.
I had a brief few weeks of that and I
needed a moment. But now we're here.
Speaker 1 (02:07):
No, no, don't even worry about it. We get that
you're preaching to the choir. We get it.
Speaker 2 (02:12):
We fully It is good for you for just saying,
you know what, I can't advocating for yourself because so.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
Hard it is, especially when it's like you did something
really big, like you released a book. That is so
hard and then you're like, well, I need to be
out there doing everything. And I ran into you at
the Elton John after party Oscar thing.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Yes, and we've seen each other a few times.
Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah, what did I say? What did I immediately do?
Speaker 3 (02:39):
Immediately started apologizing and I was like, girl, don't you
really and you told me.
Speaker 1 (02:45):
What was going on?
Speaker 3 (02:46):
I was like, no, the positive is exactly what Jenna
just said. Okay, you shook a moment and you're like,
you know what, I can't do.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Everycate right now.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
I don't remember the profuse apology there, because then maybe
I wouldn't have come in with a hot like apology.
I think I maybe am, like I can't remember anything,
like it is really getting scary the amount of things
I like just completely slipped my mind.
Speaker 3 (03:11):
This is great because we spend half of this podcast
talking about how we don't remember anything, and so this
one write in the club because that crazy. It's like
when you were doing all of these things, they all
start to run together, plots to get through the day, right,
like when you like talk about like what you might
(03:32):
have had to do in a single day in your
press tour.
Speaker 4 (03:35):
Oh, I mean that was it was giving three podcasts,
two talk shows fitting and uh like it it was.
I think what's weird is making something and then like
having to then talk about it after the fact. It
feels like kind of embarrassing because you're like, I made
(03:57):
this thing, and I hope it's good, but then you're
told that what's important is actually you talking about the
thing yep. And and so I don't know, I think,
do you guys like doing that kind of press stuff
where you're like being shuttled from room to room.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
No, who likes talking about themselves that much?
Speaker 2 (04:18):
I think I think like the project itself, like you know,
if you care about it, of course you want to
promote it and talk about being okay of course, Yeah,
but there's like a limit to like, then the questions
that you get aren't always about.
Speaker 4 (04:36):
That thank you, And I will say I was really
excited to go into some of those spaces and not
have it be for social media and have it be
for like a tangible, real thing that I wrote, because
I think a lot of the times there is still
the stigma of like you know, going viral online, and
then I think still the word influencer is very like
(05:00):
triggering to me in a way.
Speaker 1 (05:01):
Because I started in theater.
Speaker 4 (05:03):
I spent my entire life doing musical theater, and then
to get put in this other box was kind of alarming.
But I will say I had these weird flashes of
like when I was on the View or certain like
kind of maybe spaces that weren't as queer friendly or
just you know that we're doing some more journalism that
(05:26):
was less fun for me or less about the book,
and it felt more about my identity, and I think
that was really crazy of like having to speak on
behalf of community, which I never want to do or
sign up for. Or I'm being asked about sports like
trans people in sports and I'm like I never played sports,
(05:49):
Like like why am I'm not that girl? But I
do feel confident enough in my Glee watching abilities to
be on this podcast right now, so so, and and
there was I got. I had this feeling when I well,
I was going to say when I got into bed today,
but when I stayed in.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Bed today to be on this podcast.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Then I was not going to be thrilled about trans
people in sports.
Speaker 2 (06:12):
I just had this I mean, I promise, okay, okay,
we promise.
Speaker 1 (06:16):
So there's a new build. I'm kidding, I don't even know.
I don't know.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
One of my favorite like tidbits about you, Dylan, is
that most people know you from like your journey on TikTok,
and you are getting put into this box, but you
are through and through a musical theater queen.
Speaker 1 (06:39):
Yes, thank you. It's all I care about.
Speaker 4 (06:42):
It's like why I live and why I still like
And in a way, I think when I was going
viral on the internet, I just thought, oh, I hope
this helps me get to the stage, and I hope
that like maybe, And then it's funny when I started
to sing online or when I, you know, did something
like a theater sketch, people would be like, whoa where
did this come from? And it is funny when you
(07:05):
try to like soft launch like the musical theater energy
into the mainstream, because there's usually a lot of pushback.
But I think now it has a.
Speaker 1 (07:17):
Lot of good will with the people you know, Yes, and.
Speaker 4 (07:20):
Now they trust me enough to well And honestly, this
book is like when I think about who it's for,
it's for theater kids, and it's for people that watched
your show. It's for I mean, I write about something
very specific was my experience auditioning for musical theater colleges,
and because I last night I looked up Glee, like
(07:40):
to see where all the hits would be. But the
one specific, bigger story of my relationship to Glee was
that I thought Neoto was a real place. I was
going to go there, and then I found out that
it was like Julie Are or like, like that's what
I thought it was. So then I, I mean, the
(08:01):
the home screen of my phone was Juilliard. I was
going to Juilliard for musical theater. Then the shock of
going onto the website like this is senior year and
I'm like going to sign up for musical theater and
they don't have music and I went oh and and
so I was like, well, I guess I'm auditioning for
the acting program with him. And then it said you
(08:22):
needed Shakespeare monologue, and I guess I'm not going here.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
No.
Speaker 4 (08:27):
I mean, I still really put all, I threw my
full into that audition, but it didn't work out. It
did not work out, and I think that that's okay
to go to Niada and and we're not all meant
to go to Jilliard.
Speaker 1 (08:44):
No, I did audition for Juilliard as well.
Speaker 2 (08:47):
It was one of my only college auditions and I
didn't get it. Didn't go well, look at us now,
exactly at us now here we are okay. So, because
you were and are a musical theater junkie, I'm curious
how you got into glee where you were in your life,
(09:10):
where you physically were like the whole thing. But also
like now, I'm curious when the musical theater park started
or was it like straight out the room?
Speaker 4 (09:19):
Yes, yes, yes, yes. Well I will start out by
just telling you that I'm so happy to be on
this with you both because you mean so much to
me and young Dylan and I started theater when I
was well. I started dancing when I was three years
old in San Diego, where I'm from. But I live,
like I always say about San Diego, like the farther
(09:41):
from the beach you get, the more that they don't
love gay people. And I lived very far from the beach,
and so I was said little town called Alpine, California.
I was the only boy in the dance school, and
I felt really lucky that my parents even let me
do that. And I started auditioning for The Grinch at
the Old Globe and I was like six years old.
(10:01):
Finally booked it when I was ten because I found
out you didn't just have to dance, you also had
to sing. And then oh my god, what year? What
did what year did Glee start?
Speaker 1 (10:12):
Two thousand and nine?
Speaker 4 (10:13):
Okay, that meant I was twelve, twelve or thirteen? And
I remember watching the pilot episode with my mom. Was
it after American Idol madea or sink you we were
already avid American Idol watchers. This was It also came
during a time where like I was in the thick
(10:35):
of going through puberty, which was like I mean, the
the hormone spikes and the fighting with my parents and
like because I hated what was happening to my body.
But then I also I was such a mama's kid
in a way, and I think that as our it
was almost like our relationship was like measured by Thursday
(10:58):
nights watching Glee or was it Wednesdays or Thursdays?
Speaker 1 (11:03):
Switch? Sometimes it was Tuesdays, sometimes it was Wednesday.
Speaker 4 (11:05):
Okay, would we would record we would record it if
if I if it was a dad weekend because my
parents got divorced, but I I would basically like me
and my mom made it like our ritual every week
to watch the thing. And I grew up super Catholic
and conservative, and so it's funny that like that was
(11:26):
the thing, but I do think that was where we
found the common ground, whether it was through and I
mean the Kurt Humble character. Even though you know now
I am a trans woman, Like I think back to
my teen years and I just think of femininity as
like the way that I lived my life and how
(11:47):
soft I was, and how even like my singing voice,
I always like I had this like really strong falsetto
that no one would let me use because they said
that boys don't do that right. And then Chris Colfer
walks on the screen and I was like being hit
by a ton of bricks, and because I had never
seen anyone that looked like that, sounded like that, acted
(12:08):
like that, And there were so many parallels, like even
single Ladies, like backstage at the Old Globe during the Grinch,
like it would be me and the adult ensemble women
doing the single Ladies dance on the stage and then
watching that on my screen of being like, oh, oh
my god, there's other people that are like this. Too,
(12:30):
and so that really was a theme. I also I
went to the Glee concert and it was oh I
was there, bitch, and it was one of them in
San Diego I had It was one of three days
that I had platinum blonde bleached hair because I got
I went to the Paul Mitchell School downtown without telling
(12:53):
my parents, sat in a chair for seven hours. It
was bright yellow. They didn't know how to tone it.
And and then when I got home, it was the
night of the Glee concert and she was like, oh
my god, I can't believe we're going to Glee like this,
and it's just like so mortified. And then we immediately
(13:16):
died it back. But I was that blonde fantasy at
that concert. And now I think what's so funny about
like the synchronicities of life is like Glee.
Speaker 1 (13:29):
Just keeps coming back into my life.
Speaker 4 (13:31):
Like obviously, you know, Chris and I are now like dear,
dear friends, and that I think is such a pinch
me moment in itself of like that is someone where
I'm like, meet your heroes, because that one really worked
out and we got to talk about Chris, but also
like Josie Toda is one of my closest, closest friends,
(13:54):
and we had this moment early on where we started
to get to know each other and she came over
and she's like, I have something to show you, and
I was like, really nervous, like what that was? And
then she put on she went to my YouTube on
my laptop and put on Lose Lose My Breath Destiny's
Child performance episode where she was dancing, and I was like,
(14:17):
what the Like the lore behind Josie Toda as a
whole She's been on like every single show ever. No,
but she's she's so far from being like theater girl
in my mind, like she's so cool that I'm like, wait,
you were what? And so I just loved And then
now Kevin, getting to see you and Jenna, have I
(14:37):
gotten to meet you in person yet?
Speaker 1 (14:38):
Now I don't think so that's crazy to me.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
That's crazy to me, And now we're going to make
it happen. But Kevin, do you remember one specific kind
of crazy place that we saw each other in?
Speaker 1 (14:50):
Was the box? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (14:58):
Well did in my book in the Box, I almost
want to say that was the first time we met.
Speaker 3 (15:05):
I think it was because I'm a huge fan of
yours and have been like following you online. And I
knew you and Chris were friends, and I knew we
have a bunch of mutual friends. And I saw you
and I was like, oh, thank god, because I also
was like, what am I doing here right now?
Speaker 1 (15:22):
Yes, it was. It was an odd group of it was.
Speaker 3 (15:26):
It was you were sitting on the couch across from me.
I was like sitting in a couch. Everyone else like,
you know, up being crazy and we're like what are
we what's happening? And I saw you and I was like,
We're gonna be okay. Yeah, well I need to go
introduce myself.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
Well, I I write in papered all about how like
the box For some reason, when I was like a
teenager with like a fake ID was like my dream,
Like I had heard of this place and and that
is kind of like weirdly a musical theater pipeline club
for people, because it's like you're dancing for like twenty
minutes and then like the lights go down and then
(16:01):
there's a big show. But obviously it's not a musical.
It's like crazy sexy acts of you know, Jenna, have
you beenauchery?
Speaker 1 (16:08):
Yes, yes, it's.
Speaker 4 (16:09):
Oh yeah, it's too much for me insanity. But but Kevin,
I remember seeing you know, I was like, how the
hell did we end up at this place? At the
same time, I think I was sitting on like Lucas
Gage's lap and uh, there's there's a there's a there's
a group of gay people now that exist in our world.
(16:30):
And my my Chris Colfer meet cute though was.
Speaker 3 (16:35):
How did this happen? Because I love seeing your friendship.
I love that like Christmas part of your book tour.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
I got him to sing yeah, you sound great together,
thank you, and I was.
Speaker 3 (16:50):
Like, oh, Chris loves this bitch if he is singing live.
Speaker 1 (16:55):
Because no, no, no, Chris, I saw him.
Speaker 4 (17:03):
It was bros. It was my first movie premiere I
had ever gone to. And I walked to the carpet
and at that point I had been to a few
events and seeing some people, but I think my literal
like insids just like dropped out when I saw Chris
Colfer across this like AMC downtown or wherever the hell
we were on and I was like, oh, and I
(17:25):
was with er fight Master, who like, is this like
hot non binary daddy? And I was like, oh, my god,
Oh my god, and they're like, what is going on,
Like not the person that I needed for that moment
of like do you realize how big this is? And
and so I was like, I've got to do it,
and I walk up, you know, I introduced myself. Chris
(17:48):
had absolutely no idea who I was, which was so
lovely in itself. And and I one of my favorite
things about that was starting when I started going to
the events, some people had like an idea of like
who I was based on my content or you know,
had some of these like parasocial relationships. But then after
the premiere, we went to the after party and we
(18:10):
started drinking together quite heavily, and I think he was
like I like this girl, and and you know, gave
me his number, and it was like, oh, I'm so
glad that we had kind of an organic.
Speaker 1 (18:24):
Meeting in that way. Yeah, and.
Speaker 4 (18:28):
Now we've gone, oh my god, We've gone to Disneyland
together a few times. He took my club thirty three Virginity, which,
like it was, Trump had just been elected in this
past November, and I get I mean, there was such
a a there was a grim energy in the air
of la and I get a text from Chris Colfer
(18:50):
this like you want to go to Club thirty three?
And I was like, I think that is actually the
only situation that could could could heal whatever happening right now?
Speaker 1 (19:00):
Me out of bed.
Speaker 4 (19:01):
Yeah, And I will say Chris is probably the funnest
person to like drink or go dancing totally.
Speaker 5 (19:08):
It's so fun It's so funny you say that because
because Chris like was such a like a sweet, demure,
innocent soul when we met him, and so much has
evolved for him and opened up and I you know,
his all of his experience and our relationship with him,
Like it's just so beautiful to see him living his.
Speaker 2 (19:33):
Life the way he is now at his fullest and
like just like not afraid in some way, and like
I don't want to speak for him or what he's
feeling with like it comes across that way, like just
so quintessentially Chris, like roller skating parties and book parties
at a museum. It's just like it breathes like Chris Colfur,
(19:55):
which is the Chris we knew, but we were just
like dying for him to like break out into who
he really is.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
And so that's just like.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Joining himself and you feel the joy from Yeah, he
worked so hard and he still does. He works very hard.
But he worked so hard for so many years and
didn't really give him it seemed like, give himself that freedom,
have to enjoy the success he's worked for and he's
fully realized out there and every time, Like Amber and
(20:25):
I ran into him a couple of months ago, we
were out and we're like, oh no, how are we
going to keep up with Chris?
Speaker 4 (20:31):
And will it just it turned into it a Chris
It turned into a Chris Knight.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
I love it. I love it. So you guys sang together,
Oh my god, there we go.
Speaker 4 (20:43):
That was That was my year too, sort of celebration
to benefit the Trevor Project. And I am really in
division boards and I hid mostly. I would say eighty
five percent of my twenty twenty three vision board had
come true. And then success got to tell people what
(21:05):
it is you want.
Speaker 1 (21:07):
They try to make it happen over here, just happen.
Speaker 4 (21:12):
I then did one for twenty twenty four and I
put his duet, the Get Happy. I just cut out
a picture of them doing that duet, and I put
my face onto Lea's body. And I was like, I
want to do it with Chris Cooper, like that's what
that's what I want, and and I forget exactly like
(21:34):
he kind of just did, like he was like, Okay,
let's do this.
Speaker 1 (21:38):
Wow.
Speaker 4 (21:38):
And it had been a few years since he had
sung live, but it was like I remember. It was
also do you have these moments in your life where
so much crazy cool stuff is happening that you disassociate
and then you don't really like live in it when
it's happening. Oh yeah that I had this, like very clear.
I was like holding his hand. We're in my watching tuxedos,
(22:01):
and I was like, Dylan, you live in this book.
I was like, look into Chris Colfer's eyes and realize
what is happening because you may never feel this happy again.
Speaker 1 (22:16):
I get it. I get it.
Speaker 3 (22:17):
That's what a good moment to check yourself, like be present,
be present.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
That was open. Now I know what you mean.
Speaker 4 (22:26):
But I also had this moment when it was happening
where it was like, what if this is the best
I will ever feel in my entire life and it's
all downhill from this?
Speaker 1 (22:34):
Is it? Like we've peaked.
Speaker 4 (22:37):
I've had so many moments in these past three years
where I've been like, well, I like that's it, that's all.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Like I mean we talked about that in twenty fifteen,
twenty twelve, you know, like that's why we were like
checking things off a bucket list we never thought we'd
ever check off in our whole lives.
Speaker 1 (22:53):
Like you fly in a private day.
Speaker 2 (22:55):
You meet Obama, you're meeting, You're going on Oprah, Like
that's it.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Like I don't know what else there is to do,
you know, I don't know, but I think you've proven that,
like there are there's more time, more experiences, because you'd
probably just start surprising yourself.
Speaker 4 (23:10):
Yeah, I did just write about there are some things
that I'd still like to do. I would love to
meet Dolly Parton. Still, I really I wanted to perform
I was in the Book of Mormon the National Tour,
but I really want to do a role on Broadway
as a female because I think that is going to
be such a full circle moment because like I grew
(23:33):
up loving theater and that was always my safe place.
But even when I was like going into these characters,
I was always like trying to be something that I
really ultimately wasn't a part of me and my identity,
and so now getting to audition for things, I love
it even more, which I didn't know was possible. But
I'm like, oh, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. Sure,
And I think that a lot of people think of
(23:55):
me as this like activist when I'm like, honey, I
like that. I'm a theater but yeah, I really think
that advocating for trans people in theater and in you know, musical,
TV and film, like, that's something that I really want
to advocate for a while I'm here, because we haven't
gotten to see enough of it, right, Are.
Speaker 1 (24:25):
There any shows or roles that you are dying to do? Yeah,
let's talk about this for a second. Let's talk about like, yeah,
a five year plan, vision board twenty actually get this.
Speaker 4 (24:38):
I have not made my twenty twenty five vision board, okay,
because I going into it, I was a little like,
what is this, you know, legislatively as a trans person,
I was like, what does this?
Speaker 1 (24:51):
What's this year going to give?
Speaker 4 (24:53):
And I was like I almost just want the goal
to be like stay alive and feel safe and and
maybe let's not try to project too much more onto that.
What I will say is that like so many dream
scenarios have happened, so that like I almost feel like
I'm gonna end up doing a vision board at the
end of the year of all the.
Speaker 1 (25:14):
Good things that did great, but I love that, but
or maybe we're gonna get it.
Speaker 4 (25:19):
I kept telling myself, like in January, then February of
the March, I was like, you know what, next week,
we're gonna we're gonna make that vision board.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
Now too late, Like I don't mind, like a year
of calm, you know, that was my word for the year.
I do a word for the year versus a vision board,
and like my year my word was calm. Now, I
don't know that we've necessarily gotten that starting out in
January and la like, wasn't it commers Yep.
Speaker 1 (25:43):
Yeah exactly.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
But I am feeling this thing for you of your
vision board that is like it's okay to have a
calm year and then you know, regroup at the end
of the year and then do one.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Maybe next year instead.
Speaker 4 (25:56):
It's okay, but it has not been a calm year
yet for any of us.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
No.
Speaker 4 (26:03):
I did have one big vision board thing that I'm
gonna put on is do you ever take baths?
Speaker 1 (26:07):
Do you ever do lush bath bombs?
Speaker 4 (26:09):
I got. I got my own Lush bath bomb and
that was like that dream Colloud, like if I'm honey,
if I'm going to be in Capitalism, I wanted to
be at Lush So that.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
That was really hate.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
But I think Clay back to doing theater. I oh,
I would love to play like Glinda one day, dying
to do a trans legally blonde like a cast of
like Twink Delta News. I think would be so fun.
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Okay, hello, hello, sweet Charity.
Speaker 4 (26:51):
I think could be really fun too.
Speaker 2 (26:53):
One.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
That's a great one. Really.
Speaker 4 (26:55):
How was Jenna? I know you did Waitress right?
Speaker 1 (27:00):
I did? It was the best.
Speaker 4 (27:02):
How did it? How did it feel to go from
doing you know, performances on television to that?
Speaker 1 (27:09):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (27:09):
So I had started in theater as well. I was
in and I when I was nine on Broadway, and
then I did Spring and Spring Awakening on Broadway when
Graf and Lee were in it, and then half split,
so I joined while they were in it and then
they left, and then I had the new cast as well.
So I was in both casts right before Lee literally
(27:31):
booked Glee out of Smer awakening, but to return to
the return to the stage after doing so many years
of Glee was like it was weird and scary because
it had been such a long time, but it was
literally the best. One of my favorite experiences of all
time was doing Waitress.
Speaker 1 (27:50):
Like there's a.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Few things that I I you would have asked me
during gly like some of your favorite artists. It had
been Sarah Burellis and like, what is the next thing
you want to you was a Broadway musical, so like
I got both again and like it was just it
was literally the best.
Speaker 1 (28:06):
Like Sarah was there, Lisey pinched me.
Speaker 2 (28:08):
She helped design like the speakers on the stage as
like an artist that we could hear better, Like with
the sound so the band was coming through the stage,
You're like, God, bless you. The mics were like crafted
so that you didn't have to work that hard for
her music. It was just so nice.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
It was the best. I think about that a lot.
Speaker 2 (28:26):
And then Kevin surprised me actually and came and saw
it and texted me at half hour, which I'll never
do to anybody.
Speaker 1 (28:36):
Really, I didn't. You can do that. Some people like it,
some people don't. It was a big day.
Speaker 2 (28:42):
It's like a lot of people there for me, so
I just like it added to like the nerves.
Speaker 1 (28:46):
But Kevin was like, good luck, have a great time.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
At your show, and like a selfie of him like
in front of the Marque.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
I didn't know he was in New York or anything.
So it was great. It was really fun. She was
so good. I was nervous.
Speaker 3 (28:57):
I was watching her because I had never seen her
perform in that way, and so I was sitting in
my chair like I had my mouth.
Speaker 1 (29:07):
I was nervous.
Speaker 4 (29:08):
Yeah again, but Kevin, what is on your Broadway vision board?
Speaker 1 (29:14):
Well, Kevin is doing like this is the year of
the musical for Kevin.
Speaker 4 (29:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:18):
I did my first theater thing last year, yes, spelling bee.
And then I'm going to London to dude.
Speaker 4 (29:27):
I'm doing a concert called we Aren't Kids Anymore The
Savoy but the Savoy.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Oh my gosh, is going to be a The Savoy soon?
Oh my god, it's good. Oh it's going to end.
Yeah wait, that's exciting that But west End, everyone Brittain loved.
British men are so jealous. You guys are going to
London like I can't. I'm actually like so jealous.
Speaker 3 (29:56):
This mads me like I was already happy and excited,
but this just really beside myself.
Speaker 4 (30:04):
But say something weird. I almost like I would love
to become like a West End diva, even maybe over
a broad I love.
Speaker 1 (30:11):
That for you. Yes, can you do that? I did
a g I did a gay cruise. This last like.
Speaker 2 (30:19):
That.
Speaker 4 (30:20):
I went on the gay cruise and I wrote the
show for three days. What I will say is there
was a little bit of like, oh, like, do should
I be taking this gig? Like I just I don't know.
And then I had went to a dinner with Patty
lapone like a week later, and I was like, Patty,
I was just on this gay cruise. She goes, Oh,
(30:40):
I do those all the time. She goes, those are
my favorite gigs. And I was like, oh thank god.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
I was like, look, Patty of Ru, do you do it?
Speaker 4 (30:51):
You show right? Yes in New York, Little Cam.
Speaker 1 (30:57):
I feel like I like the Broadway divas the show.
Speaker 4 (31:00):
I feel like if Glee was running right now, I
maybe would have made a cameo wall Oh.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
Oh you would have had a full part. Yeah, I
forget it. You would have had an arc. You know
what you have sang something musical theater, right, not pop
like music.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
Would have had to be musical theater, and I think
it would have been Oh.
Speaker 1 (31:18):
Oh, that's the hardest question, you know.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
I feel like I feel like going along with Sweet Charity,
like you would have Deald multiple numbers on our show obviously,
so like I feel like we could have had like
a big Spender number with all the girls, like we
could bring Sugar back and do it, and you could
have actually properly done it. We've done songs on the
show multiple times.
Speaker 4 (31:36):
I will say my favorite Glee sort of like to
like Nor I still listen to this day is Christian
Chenowick's house is not a home or maybe.
Speaker 2 (31:46):
This times literally you I'm not kidding. That's Kelly's favorite
size of the show. He will listen to that on repeat.
Us in London, just like Walking on the River.
Speaker 1 (32:01):
You guys know, there's a new London.
Speaker 2 (32:03):
I don't know if it's new, but it's a nice
crisis in London bar that's like a musically I thought online,
I'll find it for you, but apparently.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
There's like a full Broadway musical bar. I'm so jealous,
you guys.
Speaker 4 (32:17):
And you know what you know what we're gonna sing
at that bar? I do house is not a home.
Speaker 1 (32:22):
Oh my god, your words? Ready to go? Your pink suitcase, Kevin,
I'm you have to wait? You have you have a
pink suitcase? Yes? The new away bags that are wait?
Do you two?
Speaker 4 (32:38):
I'm so mad at you no, because I emailed a
way about a month ago and I was like, can
I get some suitcases? They only had the silver gla
I was like, I really want pink, but I'll take
the silver glitter. I got the silver glitter. Two weeks later,
the pink ones come out. Oh other fun fact that
I have to tell you, I auditioned for Young Kurt
(32:59):
back in the day and.
Speaker 1 (33:01):
And are you ready? Are you ready? I'm ready?
Speaker 4 (33:05):
Guess what other character I auditioned for.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
I'm it was.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
It Young Kurt and it was another part in that
episode few years later, Young No Young.
Speaker 1 (33:20):
Not Young Apart.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
A few years later Young Kurt was like season two right,
I want to hold your hand, right, I'm gonna get this.
Speaker 4 (33:33):
It was Jake Puckerman. I want to let that sit,
I want to let that sit sweating. Yeah, I might
(33:54):
I might be. I was going to say, I might
be the only one that auditioned for both Young Kert
and Cake. But what I definitely confirm is I'm the
only trans woman that auditioned for both Young Kurt and
Jake Puckerman made for you. I'm not okay, I'm I'm
obsessed without being like the first or the only of
like many different I'm trying to get to be the
(34:14):
first trans person to space right now, and that's the
whole thing in itself. But I can confidently say on
this one that that was correct. I had this manager
that scouted me from high school musical Junior, and she
was very like Joey's agent from Friends, and the amount
of times where it was like You're gonna be amazing,
(34:37):
and and like she well, because I had gone in
for Young Kurt, and then I was like a little
too old. I did look shockingly like Chris pre transition,
and I do think there's also maybe something about me
and Chris playing siblings in something one day on like
a road trip comedy that feels like that feels.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Like maybe a twenty five vision board thing, thank you.
Speaker 4 (35:01):
But then when the Jake audition comes around, I like
it was very obvious that the casting directors were not
like remember that kid that we saw for young Kurt,
We gotta get that one in here. This woman was
like all right, like who knows if she even got
me the proper audition. She told me to show up
at this place and you had me hijacking things left
(35:22):
and right. And I was probably like fifteen or sixteen,
but I had paid like an online school for like
an illegal diploma that I had graduated high school so
that I could even audition for these things. And I
remember going in there and because I think his whole
thing was that he had to like play guitar, and
like there was like maybe some like sports or you know,
(35:44):
something like that, and I just like, th do you
play guitar? I'm like no, And then they're like any
sports background? Not really now, And then I was probably like,
I mean, who knows. I was probably like blackbirds singing,
like like there.
Speaker 1 (35:59):
Did you have to sing?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Or no?
Speaker 4 (36:01):
The yeah, I think I had to sing for the audition.
Speaker 1 (36:06):
Do you remember what you're saying? That's what I'm trouble.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
It's giving either blackbird or it's giving.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
Blackbird for sure, but wow.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
Yeah, Well, what was your feeling about auditioning for Glee?
Like that's a big one if you're a fan of
the show. Right like that, it was like fifteen years.
Speaker 4 (36:28):
I mean, I was like, this is it, you know what?
I also the lore of the Glee musical that was
coming to Broadway for many years. I mean that almost
kept me from transitioning because I was like, well, there's one.
Speaker 1 (36:43):
Role that I as a man, and it was current
Humble on Broadway, right right, I was.
Speaker 4 (36:51):
I was in that my mom's office computer room, singing
those songs ready to go whenever. And in some ways
I'm still waiting and maybe if there was a role
to still a d transition for, it's that one. We're
still waiting.
Speaker 1 (37:07):
Your lips to Ryan's ears.
Speaker 4 (37:09):
Yeah, literally, how about did you know anything about that musical?
Speaker 2 (37:13):
We had heard the words of it, but it never
it never got pasted, literally like people talking about it,
not not Ryan, not anybody. We just had heard, like
I mean, there might be a musical. That one playbill article.
Speaker 4 (37:28):
Was enough to fuel me for like six years.
Speaker 1 (37:30):
That's probably.
Speaker 4 (37:31):
I mean, that was enough to like make me an
audition for like musical theater colleges. Like I was like, well,
there's always the Glee musical.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
Maybe that's crazy. That's another one at it to sweet Chair, it.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
Wouldn't have been crazy though, like that, it feels like
a very plausible thing at the time.
Speaker 4 (37:46):
I will say, I will say Kevin, like my if
I was to do a vision board right after we
end this call and I put the Glee musical, like
my manifestation skills are so good, it might happen, and
I'm just nervous for all of us.
Speaker 3 (37:58):
That's oh my god, Yeah, you on them for us.
Speaker 1 (38:04):
Jake Spickerman, I can't with that. That's never going to
leave my mind.
Speaker 3 (38:08):
And funnily enough, the guy who played Jake Puckerman did
get into Juilliard.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
For Dan. That's what we really messed. That's what we
really messed.
Speaker 4 (38:20):
And I mean our lives will look so differently. We
would know each other in very different contexts.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Yeah, we would wow about Glee.
Speaker 2 (38:37):
Obviously you you loved Kurt. There was like a kinship there.
Tell me about like obviously the musical theater thing as well.
But what else about the show kept you watching? And
what about the show did you like hate watch any
of it any of it or like, were there like
unhitch storylines that you felt like were just like.
Speaker 4 (39:01):
I talked till the end.
Speaker 2 (39:02):
I was, oh my god, you're like, you're the person
who watched the rest of the show.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
It was me. But what is weird is that like
the Josie you know Mayron where I forget what her
character's name was, that like slipped my mind completely because
like I was, that's where it really gets to the end.
Speaker 1 (39:25):
There you're like, what did you do? Sure?
Speaker 4 (39:29):
But what I loved was like how it was raunchy,
Like there was so many things that like I think
my mom thought it was going over my head that
it didn't. And during the time, like I was that
twelve year old that was like reading Chelsea Handler like
books and similar, Yeah, it's scary. And I think that
(39:52):
I really, like I was obsessed with any time you
guys were talking about sex or you know, I was
even this morning, I was putting make up on. I was
watching like the Sectionals episode, and I was like, wow,
we're like going And in many ways, there were like
some kids that were probably way too young to be
watching that that because we're singing don't stop believing, Like sure,
(40:13):
I thought it was okay to show your children. Yeah,
but I think that it was always this sort of
like heightened version of reality. And also I'm such a
camp person still, and so my personality is not far
off from what that world looks like. And it's still
(40:33):
it brought me so much peace because like I and
actually I feel like I missed that from TV still
these days. Is that like that really heightened dramatic sort
of like but there was still so much sweetness there
and there was it wasn't past the point of not
being able to get vulnerable. And and I think that
that's what is sad about television now that's like either
(40:56):
really dry humor or you know, not a musical number
to be seen. It's sort of like why it was
so valuable like it was. It was first Lee and
then Smash was another huge one in my rolodex. But
I think that had it makes me sad thinking that
like the younger generation right now doesn't have that like
(41:19):
theater kid pipeline TV show. What is that right now?
Speaker 1 (41:24):
I don't know. Maybe it was a high school musical
TV show.
Speaker 4 (41:28):
Okay, there's what we love, we love.
Speaker 3 (41:30):
Yeah, but yeah, you're right, there's and it walked that
fine line, which I think is sort of like Ryan's
whole bag of like being really satirical and like dark humor,
and there was always space, like you said, Dylan, that
you could always get grounded and have something really meaningful happen.
(41:50):
And being able to do that in the same episode
is crazy. And it always happened, and it always worked,
and we always bought it.
Speaker 4 (41:58):
Yes, And it's a red flag for me when people
say that they can't enjoy that, or like once somebody
starts singing, they like completely check out right. I had
people that went to see the Wicked film and they're like,
I loved all the parts except when they sang, and
I was like that to me, like death, Like I like,
it's it's a Wendy Williams, Like you know.
Speaker 1 (42:19):
Just like nope.
Speaker 4 (42:22):
I think that, like the the art of like figuring
out how to get into a musical number in an
acting bee is so funny and it.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
Didn't always work, you know, like sometimes it works better
than others. And I think like with Wicked and when
Glee or any musical is at its best is when
those songs are advancing the story and explaining things the
characters feeling that they can't explain through regular words, And like,
how can I.
Speaker 4 (42:50):
Even feel that can I even go as far as
I feel like the musical theater on the show did
the best job of that, because I feel like the
pop songs didn't always tell the full story where it's
maybe his time moment, like we're going in so many
other places.
Speaker 1 (43:05):
Yeah, Journey for sure. I think you're correct.
Speaker 3 (43:09):
Yeah, it's on now that we've solved Glee.
Speaker 1 (43:13):
What are you listening to? What do you listen to
on the regular?
Speaker 4 (43:17):
Oh my god, I feel like I let everyone tell,
like figure out what the good songs are. I have
been listening to a lot of Juno Sabrina Carpenter that
I and I listened to the same, like seven songs
on repeat.
Speaker 1 (43:32):
I'm a looper.
Speaker 4 (43:32):
We've got a lot of Gaga going right now, getting
ready for Coachella. Oh my god, Perfect Celebrity, Garden of Eden.
Oh it's killer, it's so good, Perfect Celebrity. I did
(43:55):
get to listen to Abracadabra early early, did so lucky
I did.
Speaker 1 (44:02):
Does she ever come on the show? No, but but
I think she likes it. Yeah, she loves it. Confirmed
she yeah, on the Vogue thing. Jenna was in one
of her music videos.
Speaker 2 (44:15):
She yes, So it's crazy. We did a lot of
her music. Obviously, we did episodes for her. Ryan loved her.
She was like the hottest of hot at the time.
And then the guy that I was dating, his friend
whose TV show they were on a TV show together,
was dating Gada.
Speaker 1 (44:34):
They got engaged and so they were He was like, she.
Speaker 2 (44:39):
Was visiting him in Atlanta and I was in Atlanta too,
and so he's like, hey, my my girlfriend wants to
come out or like Lady Kaka rights like yeah, so
she like comes over that.
Speaker 4 (44:50):
She can come.
Speaker 2 (44:51):
Yeah, she comes over like a rotisserie chicken and like
apple sapples, like chicken that he had like eaten a
bite of and she's like, I'm so sorry he like
eat some of it.
Speaker 1 (45:00):
I'm like, I also, you.
Speaker 4 (45:02):
Just said Lady Gaga showed up as a rotes stry chicken.
I was like, what does that outfit look like?
Speaker 1 (45:07):
I would have loved that too, works.
Speaker 3 (45:11):
Work for friends game night, It's almost.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
She showed up as a rottach.
Speaker 4 (45:21):
Is what got cut for the VMEs?
Speaker 2 (45:23):
But yeah, then exactly how did you end up in
the And then so we were just chatting, we like
became like buds.
Speaker 1 (45:27):
That night we all went out to a bar, like
so much fun. It was awesome.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
And then I guess I was like on her mind
and she was talking about her in music video that
she was directing.
Speaker 1 (45:36):
It was married the night.
Speaker 2 (45:37):
And then like a couple of days later, I got
a call and they're like, Gaga, I wants like to
know if you want to be in a music video.
Speaker 1 (45:42):
She's directing this her first, it's her directorial debut. I
was like yes. I was like, but there's a slight problem.
I'm shooting Glee and we don't stop working. So she
called Ryan and was like, hey.
Speaker 2 (45:53):
Ryan, I would ask if you could release Jenna for
these two days so that she could come and do
my music video.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
It's like yeah, whatever, sure.
Speaker 2 (46:00):
And so nobody gets out to do nobody, but Lady
Gaga calls Ryan. You know you get out, and so
Ryan get graciously like let me out to go do it.
So I did two days on her music video and
it's very brief and like it was a full movie
in the music video that like you didn't get to see,
like nobody saw it, but we shot like a full
short film in her in like in a set apartment
(46:22):
that like and then like you literally catch me if
you pause it and look at the far end of
the actual edit.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
But but I was.
Speaker 4 (46:30):
There, Okay, I'm actually putting on my vision board is
to see the short film that was.
Speaker 1 (46:39):
Oh I want to see that.
Speaker 4 (46:46):
I was gonna say, I'm nervous, Like I was like,
should I just text her and ask for to like
maybe get that on her plate? And there's like can
you imagine getting ready for Coachella and like this crazy
world tour and it's like some trans girl being.
Speaker 1 (46:59):
Like, Hi, can we please see them Marry the Night video.
Speaker 4 (47:02):
I was just talking to my friend on a podcast
and she we didn't get to see that Clinton, So
if you could take time to do that when you're
not rehearsal would be great in your busy schedule.
Speaker 1 (47:14):
Thank you so much. Can you take a picture of
yourself as a registery chick and thank you?
Speaker 4 (47:21):
But if her an idea, you know that's no.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
I know You're welcome, Goga, You're just so you got
like that with GAA. You guys text.
Speaker 4 (47:30):
We are texting, and we're on a tensing basis that
she's an ally.
Speaker 1 (47:34):
She she's for the dolls on every she is saying
it from the rooftops like she's using her full chest
and she gets that. I mean, I think that's kind
of what we need right now.
Speaker 4 (47:46):
Yes, yes, it's so scared, especially I think just in
this industry now, people are scared of like what does
it mean to, you know, hire a transperson, even a
queer person. At this point, there's this like fear and
I don't know what pride looks like, and I don't
know what the kind of bigger picture looks like. But
(48:06):
I at least know the people in my life and
in my circle and the ones that I can depend on.
She's one of them, and I feel so lucky that.
I mean that also, honestly, meet your heroes like that,
like that is what I There's very few people that
I admired that did not live up to what my
(48:30):
young Dylan thought. Coating being with the two of you
right now, I mean, it's so cool.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
You're cool, are you? You're cool?
Speaker 3 (48:39):
Like I know, you probably didn't sign up for TikTok
thinking you were going to be, you know, a gigantic
role model or millions of people's I don't know, and
maybe only experience of like seeing a trans person like
live happily in the ups and downs. And like, but
here you are, like that's no small responsibility whether you
(49:03):
and you've done it in a way that I don't
know how. I don't know how you have, but like
you're here so kind every time I see you, yours
always kind, And I know you have long days. You're
getting it all the time from people, the good and
the bad. But and you're handling it like you are
(49:24):
crushing it.
Speaker 1 (49:26):
We are so lucky.
Speaker 4 (49:27):
We're so lucky to be doing what it is we
love and have gotten to these experiences. I think it's
because I'm camp that I can get through because there
is like I'm like, oh I took a beer company
down that's camp. Like oh I just get a gay cruise,
that's camp. You know, there's like if you can't find
the hilarity in the darkness of what we're all living through,
(49:50):
then I just don't know the point.
Speaker 1 (49:54):
You're right, You're so right.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
Can we talk about this book for a second, because
that's a hard journey in itself?
Speaker 1 (50:08):
Like what was the what was the process for the book?
How was it? Did you enjoy it? Was it hard? Was?
Speaker 4 (50:14):
I think what's weird is going from uh, like every
single day making a new thing putting it out there,
seeing how the world responded, and then waking up the
next day and doing it again. It was so conflicting
because I was like, what do you mean, I can't
put the book out tomorrow?
Speaker 1 (50:32):
And in a way that process right right totally.
Speaker 4 (50:37):
But that really freaked me out because I was like, Okay,
I'm signing up for this thing that will come out
in like three years from now, and.
Speaker 1 (50:43):
I didn't know.
Speaker 4 (50:44):
I was scared because I was like, I don't know
what that looks like. And it ended up being a
really great thing. Because I thought the book was going
to be one thing. Then beer Gate happened and I
grew up so much and it became another. I think
the one piece of it that makes me slightly like
uncomfortable is the fact that, like I this is these
are my twenty five year old words, and I feel
(51:06):
like a little slightly different, you know. It's a little
more earnest than I am now, And I'm starting to
try to let that just be like a gift of like, oh,
how how great that that's a time stamp of that chapter.
But I think that in a way, because of all
the dark parts of what have happened in the last
three years having somewhere to put it that wasn't the
(51:28):
Internet that felt safer. Did you guys, Like, at what
point did you realize the Internet, like when you were
doing the show was like kind of becoming as big
as it did. Like with with your relationship to the
social media.
Speaker 3 (51:47):
Yeah, what we we started really at like the advent
of Twitter. It was like twine. Twitter sort of blew up,
and that's what we did. And so it started off
as like a really positive I would say, the first
season and a half ye, and it started to mirror
what Ryan had always told us about, you know, if
(52:08):
we are lucky enough to have success, it's great, and
they're going to build us up, but just at some
point they're going to tear you down. And I think
having in the back of our minds one having no
previous interaction with social media in that way, because my
Space was not like that. Facebook was not like that.
Like I was on Facebook when you had to get
an invite to get on Facebook, right wow, And so
(52:31):
like that's what we were used to in terms of
social media, and I don't even think there was the
term social media at the time.
Speaker 1 (52:38):
And so.
Speaker 3 (52:40):
I think our relationship to it. It felt really fun
and really positive at the beginning, right where like you
could that instant gratification and like you were meeting people
who were so excited about the thing you were a
part of is so nice and reaffirming and gratifying. That
like being able to interact people like that was unbelievable
(53:02):
and it still is.
Speaker 1 (53:03):
That is like the best thing.
Speaker 4 (53:05):
But it is scary, I think when you know people
do turn on you or when the wrong people find you,
because then people feel like they've got a direct line yes,
and that can be really dangerous because I think what
ended up happening was sort of this like, oh, oh
my gosh, I'm including everyone in my life and I'm
(53:28):
showing them my personal you know, vulnerabilities both internal and external,
and then people start to feel like they have a
right to that and so so hard to scale back.
It's so hard to redefine boundaries with parasocial relationships. And
what is weird too is I always thought that like
(53:48):
maybe people would know me as like a character that
I eventually played, But people really feel like they know me,
and which is such a compliment because that means they like,
you know, the idea of who I even though I
have a thousand other parts to myself. But I think
that did people project, especially like through social media and
starting to get to know you. Was there any part
(54:10):
of them that was like frustrated when you weren't living
up to like the character that they had built in
their heads around you.
Speaker 2 (54:16):
Yeah, yes, yeah, I think it started. That's right, Kevin
has started really positive. And then I feel really lucky
honestly because we were at the dawn. We weren't in
the height, you know, or like the explosion of Instagram
where like stories started to come out like that was
after we were off and that really fast, like I
(54:37):
know what her house looks, like, I know where she
is all the time kind of feeling wasn't there when
we were on Glee and we were really just like
telling vogging from like set, so it felt really safe
in a way.
Speaker 1 (54:50):
Where As like as.
Speaker 2 (54:52):
We started to as it started to the time started
to go on, like towards the end, we started to
see like battles between fans over things, fighting within each
other and cyberbullying and all of that. It was like
really rude and terrible, but it didn't happen until later.
And I think we also got a lot of like
(55:14):
like I didn't write the show, but like they would
hate us for storylines and hate us for things that
we did to other characters and things that we said.
Speaker 1 (55:22):
And then it started to just really snowballs.
Speaker 4 (55:27):
And then what like I built my entire thing on
like telling everyone everything and being honest and all this stuff.
But then you realize when then you're in a place
whether you're behind a contract or it's literally not your
place to speak on certain things and people are demanding
things of you, we were like, wait, this doesn't even
fall under my jurisdiction, yes, or I legally cannot tell
(55:49):
you this thing. And yet that that's what's I think crazy.
I give so much more grace to anyone that's putting
themselves out there, whether it's in the public eye or
they're writing a book or they have a podcast, because
it is it's weird to and it's scary to put
yourself out there. And it doesn't mean.
Speaker 1 (56:11):
That everybody gets like a right to everything.
Speaker 2 (56:14):
Then like, and I do think you're right, Like I
feel like people really do feel like because you are,
this comes with the territory.
Speaker 1 (56:22):
That's what people would say.
Speaker 2 (56:23):
It's kind of like becoming famous on a show when
you're an actor, and they're like, it comes with the territory.
They should just know that if they're getting interrupted during
dinner or they're interrupted while shopping or walking outside, like
that's what they signed up for.
Speaker 1 (56:38):
Actually it's not. It's not what we signed that for.
Speaker 4 (56:42):
Can can I ask a question?
Speaker 1 (56:43):
Yeah that's the way?
Speaker 4 (56:45):
Okay, I just started a podcast. It's called The Dylan Hour,
and yeah, thank you. I find myself over sharing in
really crazy ways on like on podcasts, where I'm like
and then I get done with them, I'm like, whoa,
how did that just happen? How how do you guys
with this what we're doing right now? Like where are you? Like,
(57:07):
have you defined what your boundaries are before you even
go into you know, making all these episodes, or how
does that work for you guys as podcast hosts?
Speaker 3 (57:15):
Great question. We sort of deal with it as it comes.
I think luckily because Jenna and I, I mean had
almost the exact same experience. We're part of the exact
same thing where we have that check and knowledge and
foundational like friendship to be able to tell what's cool
(57:37):
to say publicly and what's not.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
I always like to sell to Kevin though, like there's
a rule like it's not my story to tell, so
if it involves one of our other cast members, I
just say, it's not our story. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (57:49):
There's been a couple of times where I'm like, Okay,
well this thing actually happened behind the scenes and I
don't know, and she's like no. I'm also not one
who likes headlines are like attention like that, Like I'm
not trying to you know, I want our podcasts to
do well, and I want all of that, but I
don't want like the Aden way. Yeah, And I think
it's like we come from a place where this show
(58:12):
and this podcast is about explaining the narrative from our
perspective and only we can tell it from our perspective.
And it's positive and it's light, and there was challenges,
and there was dark times and tragedy and friendship and
fights and like all of the truths that happened when
you were in a family.
Speaker 2 (58:33):
But the reality is like the headlines that you're reading
about the rivals and all of the crap that you read,
it's like a zero zero one percent compared to all
the good things that happened to us.
Speaker 1 (58:46):
On the show and our relationships.
Speaker 2 (58:48):
And so I think we kind of lead with the
positivity and just really laying down the narrative that like this,
this is what was true, this is what was true,
and then like the rest kind of comes and like
we kind of just.
Speaker 1 (59:07):
Exactly exactly. And I think that's maybe what we have
in common.
Speaker 4 (59:11):
It's like trying to always lead with the positive and
the truth, and I think it's it makes me sad
that so much of what media has become is for
the clickbait, where you know, they want the drama, they
want to they want to see people, you know, hurting,
(59:31):
they're hurting others, and I think that's what I don't
ever want to prescribe to. And I think you are
both like iconic hosts for making people feel so comfortable
on here and.
Speaker 2 (59:44):
Well you're a great interview by the way, So I
have thank you.
Speaker 1 (59:48):
I have in the world that you're going to be
a great podcast as well.
Speaker 3 (59:50):
Oh yeah, you're just the best. There's nothing really that
you haven't set your mind to that you've tried to
do and have not just crushed it.
Speaker 4 (59:58):
He The one thing is I really wish Jenna would
come to London.
Speaker 2 (01:00:04):
Oh gosh, I have a small new small child. I know,
so sadly, I don't think they get to London this.
What about a little bit by Ones.
Speaker 3 (01:00:15):
Jenna, I'll buy what severalby ones you want?
Speaker 1 (01:00:19):
Yes, I will. I mean I would love that. Yes,
I will that. He would be really cute.
Speaker 2 (01:00:25):
Yeah, he would good coloring for that.
Speaker 1 (01:00:30):
I would love that. No, you guys have the best
time in London.
Speaker 2 (01:00:34):
Okay, before we let you go, Dylan, we have to
know what is the feeling that.
Speaker 1 (01:00:39):
Glee leaves you with.
Speaker 4 (01:00:42):
Mmm. I think it's like, this is crazy infinite femininity,
because yes, when I think about me dancing to like
rag Doll, or like say a little prayer, or like
in my living room like as a kid, Like sure,
there was plenty of other storylines in there, but it
(01:01:03):
was the femininity within the show that helped me survive
and get to my womanhood and ultimately, like, so much
of who I am now is still that kid that
was like dancing in my living room that to your
show and so and I think it's infinite because it
(01:01:26):
has gotten me this far and it's going to keep
getting me to the next and where me and Kevin
are still listening to houses, not a home, so this
really could be infinite and beyond it.
Speaker 3 (01:01:37):
Oh it is, that's right. We celebrate it. We celebrate
the femininity.
Speaker 4 (01:01:41):
And I.
Speaker 1 (01:01:43):
My eyes were starting to have moisture in them. That
was really beautiful.
Speaker 3 (01:01:47):
And thank you for sharing that, and thank you for
being on here and being so willing to talk about
Glee in depth and share so much of yourself with us.
I know you get pulled in a million directions, so
it means a lot that. Yeah, as much time.
Speaker 4 (01:02:04):
I haven't enjoyed doing this more than just about any
other press thing that I've gotten for this book. And
we made all the way through not one trans people
in sports question.
Speaker 1 (01:02:17):
No, we promised.
Speaker 4 (01:02:19):
That's for that's for my comeback episode.
Speaker 1 (01:02:23):
That's the title You're welcome only talking about. It's thirty
seconds long and it's just about in sports.
Speaker 2 (01:02:32):
Oh well, thank you, thank you so much again for
for just being with us.
Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
It's really such pleasure.
Speaker 4 (01:02:40):
I can't wait to see you in person, both of you.
I'll text you. I'll text you, Yeah, text me.
Speaker 3 (01:02:49):
Go listen to Dylan's podcast, Go by Dylan's book, like
come on, it's you do.
Speaker 4 (01:02:58):
On stage.
Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
See both of us on stage in London Fair.
Speaker 4 (01:03:03):
Yes, yeah, I love you both, love you so much,
love you bye?
Speaker 1 (01:03:11):
What did I tell you? I mean you were right? Wow.
Speaker 3 (01:03:14):
Dylan is the gift that keeps on giving. What a
light for so many people, for me, for us, She's
just the the realist.
Speaker 1 (01:03:26):
And what a great hombo. Love her, love her? Yeah,
I mean, did you make it very Chris's inner circle.
It's pretty good. You're vouched for it. That's like vouching
the highest honor. Good person, good advocate stands for good things, integrity, funny,
(01:03:49):
like smart, charming, like lovely, really really wonderful.
Speaker 3 (01:03:54):
Diagram that she's got going on of friendship, you know,
like guy Chris.
Speaker 2 (01:03:59):
Yeah, and also like I want her to make my
vision board?
Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
Wow? Yeah, can we have a vision board party? Maybe
that's what we should.
Speaker 2 (01:04:09):
Do, Kevin, let's do that off New Year's unless you're
going somewhere else for New Year's.
Speaker 1 (01:04:14):
Let's do it. Okay, Okay, have you made a vision
board for this year?
Speaker 4 (01:04:19):
No?
Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
I tend to write down words and lists, but I
really only made words for this one.
Speaker 3 (01:04:24):
But I mean, like, okay, I'll talk to Dylan. Maybe
we'll just do like a visual party as vision board
party let's do it.
Speaker 1 (01:04:33):
That sounds fun. Okay great. Thanks for joining us, and
that's what you really missed by.
Speaker 3 (01:04:39):
Thanks for listening, and follow us on Instagram at and
that's what you really miss pod. Make sure to write
us a review and leave us five stars. See you
next time.
Host
Jenna Ushkowitz
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