November 30, 2023 • 51 mins
It's happening. Kevin and Jenna are exploring the world of Glee Fanfiction!Brie, Allison, & Pamela could not be more different from one another, but they share one thing in common - their love of Glee! They reveal how and why they started writing Glee fanfiction, dispel common misconceptions about the community, and share which characters are the most popular among fanfic writers!Plus, please stay tuned for a special announcement regarding the 4th Annual Snixxmas Charity Drive in honor of Naya Rivera!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
And that's what you really missed with Jenna.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
And Kevin an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to and That's what you really missed fanfic addition.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Yo, do people go fanfic? Yeah? Okay, fan fiction, fanfic.
I am nervous.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
This is so fascinating to me because I've never I
never would have come across fan fiction. I've got to
be completely honest. It's just not something that would have come.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Across my internet girly like.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
No and I. But I love learning about it and
understanding why people are connected to it and why they
do it. So I buckle up, everyone.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Strap in. We are exploring the world of Glee fan fiction.
We have three wonderful guests today that are going to
take us through how they found fan fiction, what it
means to them, and just explain the world to us
because we don't know anything about this because I have
sort of steered myself and others on the show away
(01:09):
from it after accidentally stumbling across the story.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yeah, we had to debunk this.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, so yeah, we want to hear about all the
wonderful things fan fiction does.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
And is okay, So first, Kevin, we have Brie, who
is the reason why we're doing this to begin with,
so Bre reached out to our producer because she wants
to debunk the fan fiction that we all hear about
the misconceptions. Yes, misconceptions. She's a family trauma therapist and
(01:44):
she's a Glee fan. She loves Britanna and she's into
fanfic and I can't wait to hear from her.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, who better to introduce us to the world. This
is Bree.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Hello, Bri. Hi, guys, Hi, how are you.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
I'm good, how are you?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Nice to meet you.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Wonderful meeting you.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Thanks, thank you for being here, joining us.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Reaching out with this awesome idea.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Absolutely, I've heard you guys talk about it before, and
I'm like, I really wish I could clear the air here.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Let's clear the air.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
What we were talking about is fan fiction because we
inadvertently are aware of it because obviously people wrote about
the show we were on. But you wrote fan fiction?
Yes I did, Okay, So just start at the beginning.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yes, absolutely, I will take you back. So I was
a little a little bit older than the other guests
you've had on the show. When the show was popular.
I was in I was finishing up undergrad so I
was in my twenties. Yeah, you're right, Yeah, so I
(03:06):
you know, and when I heard about the show, I
really wasn't aware of it in the first season. And
I remember my ex came to me during second season
when the Brittany Brittany episode aired and was like, these
people are going to do these songs, you know, covering Brittany,
and I was like, how dare they?
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Like, let's watch this because there's hate watch it right,
So we tuned in and I wish it was this
like magical, my eye opening moment, but no, I was like, no,
that's trash.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
I can't watch the show. And I couldn't stop thinking
about it, like it was. It was weeks and weeks.
I was like, you know what, I was actually pretty good.
And I went back and I watched the episode over again,
and I was like, oh, damn, okay, all right, so
let's figure out what this is all about. So I
went back to the beginning and started to to rewatch slowly,
(03:59):
and by the time that I had hit Your Guys'
live airing, it was beginning a third season. So I
missed the tour, I missed everything, and then I got
really into it and something just clicked with you know,
the show. It really hit me in a way and
(04:19):
that I needed at the time. And just to talk
about fan culture, I'm probably not going to use the
word obsessive because it has a negative connotation to it.
Some call it hyper fixation. So I became super hyper
fixated with the show with certain storylines, and that really
(04:41):
led me to start venturing into the internet, which is
a dangerous place, definitely. And someone was like, hey, no,
people write about this stuff. It's like what, So I
went on. I read a few weirded me out at first,
but I was always into creative writing, so I was like,
wait a second, maybe I can do this. And it
(05:01):
was pretty crappy writing in the beginning. I started writing.
It was not good.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Did you post that what you were writing?
Speaker 5 (05:08):
I did?
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Yes, really immature writing at first, and then I just
dove into it and I got a lot better. And
I was raised in a house where, you know, my
grandmother had a master's in British lit and a master's
in English, and so I was already pretty decent with
with the writing piece. And I actually still write to
(05:32):
this day.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
And you still do you write about any other characters
outside of Glee. Yes, in the world.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Okay, two shows have made it to that point in
my brain.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Wow, it's a good way to put it.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yes, okay, it's a great escape, honestly, and.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
What a great exercise also for creative writing. And you
also like, when you were putting it up, what where
would you post these things?
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Yeah? So this was all the way back when I
started finding stories, was all the way back when live
journal was a thing. I never was on live journal,
but I moved onto fanfiction dot Net and then transferred
over to a site called Archive of our Own, which
is now really the primary site. There are others that
are coming out, but that's a great one.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
So okay, I have so many questions. Oh no, I'm
interested because you are a family trauma therapist, Chris.
Speaker 6 (06:30):
I am.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
So there's a lot of I'm sure of breaking down
if you will, of this fan fiction. But I was
wondering before we get into that portion of the interview,
did you do you find there's a community that you
connect with in the fan fiction world or is it
(06:51):
kind of more individual and you share and read and
write on your own.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Yeah, it's a little bit of both actually. So in
the very beginning it was a very connective piece where
you were finding other authors. Sometimes you reached out to
them and you're like, hey, love your story, this is great,
and you connected with people. And Tumblr was a huge
bridge for that as well. Uh, fan fiction and Tumblr
are a very close relationship.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
And so I found that out by accident one time.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Oh I want to know about that, he said, one time?
Get off here.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Yeah, and now this is obviously before the restrictions were
put on Tumblr too.
Speaker 7 (07:33):
Yes, okay, there were illustrations. Oh yes, it's a world okay, sorry,
a great sense of community.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Right, So I did find a close group of friends
that I have actually met, right, we just wrote together.
So when you are writing a fan fiction story, you
actually are encouraged to find what's called a beta and
aa is somebody who edits and reads your story and
gives you feedback. And so you can go ahead and
let your beta read it and they give you the feedback,
(08:08):
you make the changes, and then you post it. So
you're pretty much partnered with somebody, which is really great,
and you find that person yourself or people volunteer.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
Very cool.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Wow, So do you read other people and like, oh
I like their style, maybe they'd be a good fit
with me to be beta.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Absolutely, I used to. I am totally individual now, so
now that I've gotten older and I have a family,
I don't really have time for all that communication. So
I do write on my own and I'm pretty confident
in my writing now that i can do it without
an editor. But yeah, so I'm solo.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Now, Okay, yeah, okay, Jenna, No, I gotta. I'm so
curious of what your analysis is of the psychology behind
fan fiction. Great question, give it to us, all right.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
So there are so many reasons, right why someone might
become deeply engrossed in something, whether it be an artist
or a show or a movie. And I don't want
to categorize these things to where people are like, no,
that's not true for me. That's not true for me.
There's a ton of things we don't have enough time
in the world to get into the case. Yes, yeah,
(09:21):
but for something that happened for me was when you're
going through something traumatic or very heavily impactful, or you're
unhappy or you're uncomfortable in your environment. Some people really
like to become lost inside a world that isn't their own,
(09:41):
whether it be books or painting or drawing or TV shows, music,
whatever the medium. Right, there's the comfort in having somewhere
to go that makes you feel safer than where you
actually are. And it's not to say that there isn't
a true appreciation for the art or the acting or whatever,
you know, whatever it is, but it is an escape
and it's a safe place. So we can, you know,
(10:05):
we get lost in the space where you research and
you overanalyze and you rewatch, and that's where sort of
fan fiction comes in, is you sort of dive into
a space where you don't have to deal with whatever
it is it's going on. So that is a huge
reason why people can become very lost. And I do
(10:26):
want to say that just because someone gets hyper fixated,
it's not really an excuse for them to bully or
act in appropriately or violate your personal boundaries. Right, This
is just a much safer way for them to have
an outlet from what's really going on in the real world.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Yeah, that makes sense. It's also I imagine too, when
you're then you start getting into fan fiction, you're creating
the narrative. You're creating the world world, the safe world
maybe in which you wish was happening in your life world.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Yes, totally. You can do that, or you can go
completely fan you can go totally out of left field,
which is also a huge thing that you see in
fan fiction as well. And not to mention they you know,
it's so much easier to write this story right when
the characters are already established, the world already established, because
world buildings really hard. So it is nice. It's not that,
(11:20):
you know, we want to obsess over these characters necessarily,
it's just that they're there for us and we know
them and we feel like, you know, what's going on
inside their heads. So you want to place that in
a situation that you really want, you know, people to
read about.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Hmmm, well, now I'm I'm very curious.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
It's not all sketchy and it's well.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
I think that's important though, because not everybody knows about
fan fiction, right. This is something that I learned about
because of I was on Glee. I don't know that
I would ever have learned about it otherwise. And so
for people who don't know about fan fiction, can you
debunk what what some of those myths and things are
like some of the things that surround it.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Absolutely, yeah, I mean one of the most common misconceptions
about fan fiction is that it's all erotic literature. Right, Yeah,
smut is a great fan fiction word. It's not promise.
There is plenty of that. I'm not going to say
it doesn't exist. There is a lot of it.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
There's something for everyone.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
There's something for everyone. And that's really it, right is
there is something for everyone. If you want something more
mild PG, a really nice fluff story is what they
call it, something with a lot of happy feelings. You
can find that, and then you can find something really
angsty if you're feeling in a mood like you want
to murder mystery. Honestly, you can go down that route
(12:46):
as well. There's a lot of post apocalyptic stories. It's
just people taking these characters and putting them into even
other shows like Walking Dead or something like that, and
really making you, you know, your careacters live out what
they would react in that setting, which is really fun.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Which just makes a lot of sense. I mean, it's
all based off of fictional people, fictional settings and situations,
and so it's I think it's like Jennifer, you and
I I can see your wheels turning. I think sometimes
it's hard to like separate ourselves from like characters that
we may play because like we see ourselves doing it,
and so then we correlate that to if people are
(13:25):
writing about this, then we're picturing ourselves in those situations
where it's like, well, no, these are fictional characters, right,
doing fictional things. And people can put Already and Tina
into the Walking Dead and like, how would they do?
Good luck time? Not well, but I.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Cannot imagine what it's like to something and picture yourself
in it, right, But.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
I do understand though, Like as a fan of fiction,
I read a lot, I watch a lot of TV,
a lot of movies. How that could be appealing and
how that could be like such a great creative outlet,
a great community building, right, And also they have finding
other stories of things you're interested in that you may
not feel inclined to write about, but like, oh I
(14:13):
want to see what that what that's all about?
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Absolutely, well thanks for that.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
That didn't take me long to be sold on that,
did it?
Speaker 5 (14:22):
And listen here?
Speaker 3 (14:23):
And I want to show you guys something and it's
it's super weird and personal to me. But I not
only love to write, but I love to edit. And
I did edit a story for somebody once and it's
my favoritely fan fiction I've ever edited, and so for myself,
I got it published into a real.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Book that is long.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Yes, it's a full twenty seven chapter, four hundred page story,
and you know, I've reread it five or six times
in the last several years, and it sits on my
shelf and I can pull it off and it feels
like a real comfort story.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Oh so vast. Oh my god, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
We're sitting here with our mouths open.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
That's incredible.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
This is wow.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Really bring back a lot of memories. Actually, because I
have to say so back to like I don't know,
teen closeted me. I would go on Tumblr and look
for like gay fiction stories because I didn't know where
to find them or I didn't have any gay friends,
and so I would find and not like smut, as
(15:37):
we said, but you know it's like what you might
see now and a heart stopper or sex education, like
these stories that I couldn't yes, And then I could
search on Tumblr and like find these wonderful made up stories.
And some of them were like more unrefined than others,
(15:57):
more amateur sounding than others, but it didn't matter because
you could tell these people were learning and as you
were like reading these very they could be very long,
as like you just held up that book and the
chapters would get better and better and better because the
writers were getting better and better. And it was like
a really my favorite thing to like do, one line,
was to read these stories.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Yeah, and that's a huge reason too. And I, you know,
we grew up I think in probably the same era.
And I also was desperate for queer content, and for me,
I think it came a little later. You know, as
a lesbian there was a lot of lesbian representation. You
had the L word, but I was seventeen. I was
probably a little young for that. So I came. But
(16:41):
you know, the first show that I really found was
on a network called The En. I don't know if
you remember that, yeah, yes, and it's a show called
South of Nowhere.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yes, yep.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
That was my very first representation of a lesbian relationship
on television that wasn't a side joke. You So, so
when Glee came around and the whole Brittany and Santana
relationship blew my mind, right, that was something that I
needed in that moment. And I needed more and more
of it, so down these paths as you just talked about.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yeah, totally. Well, this is thank you for sharing with
us all of these wonderful things. This is so fascinating
and you you're the one who you know, reached out
to our producer to say, let's let's talk about this
fan fiction thing. So thank you so much for opening
up the conversation and you know, getting us to do
this podcast episode. It's very, very cool, and we're so
(17:38):
grateful for you and all of these wonderful things you've
shared with us. So thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Grace having distinctly explained it to idiots like us, appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
So listen, it's my job.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yes, true, I get that, we get that. Thank you
so much. Gre's really nice to meet you, of course, anytime.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Okay, Next up, we have one of our old friends, Allison,
co host of Gleek of the Week podcast. Who knew Alison,
who is a host of a Glee podcast, dabbled in
Glee fanfic. I'm very excited, very excited to have Alison back,
so let's talk to her again.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
I'm sorry now, we're just she's been too much time
to time together.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
How are you?
Speaker 1 (18:40):
How are you so great?
Speaker 8 (18:43):
So excited to speak with you all again.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
I know, thanks for coming on. We just we have
talking about some fan fiction. You know, we.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Decided because it keeps coming up and like we need
to just hunker down here and figure out out because
we know you read fan fiction. Oh yeah, you've written
some fan fiction. Yeah, how did it come to you?
How did you find fan fiction?
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Tell us?
Speaker 8 (19:11):
How did I find fan fiction?
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Hm?
Speaker 8 (19:16):
I was heavily on. I think the.
Speaker 9 (19:21):
Glee fan to Tumblr pipeline to fanfiction dot net is
like a straight line that steps one, two, and three.
And because I remember following all of these Glee tumblers
and they would like link, I think the people that
would post on Tumblr were creative types, writing types, drawing types.
Speaker 8 (19:45):
So like, in addition to fan art, there was.
Speaker 9 (19:48):
Fan fiction and the people that I followed would post
their fix or like.
Speaker 8 (19:57):
Or stories that they're like. This is like same to
talk to Kevin mckalon, Janoshkow. It's about this is it's
such a full circle moment. This feels so this is
healing in many ways.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Let it out.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yea, that is what our podcast is for.
Speaker 9 (20:19):
So yeah, that's how I kind of found it, and there,
I mean fanfiction dot Net. I think Glee was like
one of the biggest branches. I don't have the like statistics,
but I think it has to be one of the
biggest branches.
Speaker 8 (20:35):
I think Harry Potter is up there and the Glee world.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Because because of the fan base.
Speaker 9 (20:42):
And I think the vent diagram for those fandoms is
pretty close to being a circle totally. But yeah, that's
how I found it and how I started writing it.
Speaker 8 (20:57):
There were just well, I have two stories.
Speaker 9 (21:01):
I have a fincial story called Fate Has this is
hilarious to speak.
Speaker 8 (21:08):
About, called Fate Has dealt its cards.
Speaker 9 (21:11):
I when I wrote, I only wrote like four chapters
per story.
Speaker 8 (21:19):
They're complete there. They don't wrap up.
Speaker 9 (21:22):
There's not like building action, a climax and then like
denument like a resolution.
Speaker 8 (21:28):
It's just like stream out there exactly.
Speaker 9 (21:33):
And that's I have a fincial story and I have
a claim story.
Speaker 8 (21:38):
And those are my two number ones.
Speaker 9 (21:41):
And I had like, like in twenty eleven, I was
what fifteen so very much like do some creative writing
with these these tropes that I love, because like my
claim story is if what would happen if Blaine's dad
(22:06):
enlisted him in the army and they were separated, which
is like kind of my hair is my favorite musical
And at fifteen, that's all I wanted to think about.
I was very obsessed with like nineteen sixty eight, nineteen
sixty nine, like woodstock hair, Vietnam War era.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Blaine goes to war.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Getsped drafted for the wary.
Speaker 9 (22:33):
Blaine gets drafted and yeah, and I had this beautiful
scene in my head that I don't ever think made
it to fan fiction.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Done that, but it was like the goal, the guiding.
Speaker 8 (22:44):
Goal, the guiding light was going to be.
Speaker 9 (22:48):
Blaine is like for some reason, they're putting army musicians
on the radio and Kurt would be just planning around
with the radio and here Blaine, oh, from across the globe.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Very good, very good, beautiful. Okay, Okay, well, thanks for
sharing that. Have you written fan fiction since?
Speaker 10 (23:12):
No?
Speaker 1 (23:13):
I need to ask.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
It was like a fifteen year old thing for you
in that.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Creative writing moment.
Speaker 9 (23:18):
It was a fifteen year old creative writing moment. And
since then, I mean I've had my like, oh.
Speaker 8 (23:23):
This would be such a good story.
Speaker 9 (23:25):
It's I'm a very big reader, and that hasn't changed,
and so I still have these like little ideas in
my head that are still very much kind of similar,
like based in the nineteen sixties and that sort of
era storyline. But I haven't written any fan fiction recently. However,
(23:49):
I did in high school as like a little fun thing.
Speaker 8 (23:54):
And I haven't even like, I don't know even if
I've told my co host Andrew.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
About this story, well, he's gonna find out exactly.
Speaker 9 (24:02):
I used to on Facebook Messenger write little blurbs about
my best friend Carrie and Michael Buble. I used to
write little blurbs that turned into a fan fiction, and
one year, for her birthday, I turned those blurbs into
a physical book and I gave her one final chapter
(24:23):
and I gave that to a Runner birthday.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Great. Do you ever go back and read these?
Speaker 8 (24:30):
Absolutely not. We did.
Speaker 9 (24:33):
We did read the Client Fact fan fiction for a
bonus episode one time, and we've read some of the
like most chaotic Glee fan fictions just for for ships
and gigs. And it's reading my writing hurts the most.
I think it's like it's like reading my diary age fifteen.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
It's just so interesting because we have, you know, We're
spoken to a group of people who have shared their
fan fiction experiences, and they're all so different. Right, some
people are continuing to write it is an outlet, it
is therapy. It is like something they're so proud of.
And then you know your experience, which is like it hurts,
(25:25):
it hurts, but fascinating, you know what. I get it.
I get it.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
I get it. It's like I feel watching myself like Glee.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Totally totally has hurts so much. I did.
Speaker 8 (25:42):
Yeah, who was that? I don't know who?
Speaker 1 (25:46):
That is exactly getting I was. I always say like,
oh I wasn't trying there.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Every Now I'm like, oh I showed up that day.
So I imagine you go back and read writing.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
That's interesting, right if I.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Know now now, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
You talked to Robert Alight recently because you guys are
watching the Glee Project, right.
Speaker 9 (26:12):
Yes, Andrew just did a full interview with Robert Alric
and it was amazing because we did just watch all
ten episodes of Glee Project season one, Oh my yeah,
and it was so so fun and it was The
interview with Robert was kind of just a nice little
stamp at the end to kind of summarize how we felt.
Speaker 8 (26:38):
But that was a journey.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Oh, I'm sure that was truly a journey. I don't
think I could watch it.
Speaker 9 (26:44):
To you, it was hard to watch at some points.
It was very much like Sign of the Times.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
But I think i'd be stressed.
Speaker 10 (26:52):
Like these kids a lot, and the fact that we've
like spoken with a lot of them, like we've spoke
with Lindsay and Samue Larson and Damian McGinty, Like we've
spoken with so many of them.
Speaker 9 (27:05):
It's it's kind of like again full circle, like it
makes complete sense.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Totally, Yeah, totally.
Speaker 9 (27:15):
But when what I wanted to ask you is when
we did we did a whole fan fiction bonus episode,
and I drew up some statistics, and I went to
ourcove of our own and I made some graphs, and
I do you know who the most Glee fan fiction
is written about as a couple.
Speaker 8 (27:36):
Guess Clain for sure. Yeah, Clain is almost fifty percent.
Speaker 9 (27:42):
Yeah, more than fifty percent of Glee fan fictions that.
Speaker 8 (27:45):
Make every other category is like a nice little sliver
fifty percent.
Speaker 9 (27:54):
Clain and Blaine and Kurt are the two are the
two main stories. But then male male relationships are like
almost seventy five percent of all Glee fan fiction.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
It's like, yeah, I believe that.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Let me ask you, so, if clean Clean's written about
a lot, right, do other characters from the world show
up from Glee show up? Or is it really very
like clean centric if it's a clean story. I'm so curious.
Speaker 9 (28:25):
It's that's a very good question, and I think absolutely yes,
other characters show up in minor roles.
Speaker 8 (28:32):
I read a fan fiction and it was Blaine centric.
Speaker 9 (28:36):
But then you also have all the Warblers, like Wes
comes in, You've got Sebastian smythe You've got Rachel coming
in talking to Kurr. Got it, Okay, everybody else is there,
but like it's focusing on and like Bert and Carol.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Of course there were have to be given. Okay, fascinating, you.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Can find it. There's a whole world out there for you.
You can go find it.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
No, this is why I'm doing this in this in
this podcast is because this is a space, safe space,
fascinating to get to it. Interesting. I'm just touching the
line and that's as far as all go.
Speaker 9 (29:17):
Yeah, but I have you found fan fiction that's like
about not Tina and Artie.
Speaker 8 (29:23):
But Kevin and Jenna, well.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
We've heard about that certain Absolutely, it's even weirder.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
I keep saying that I did stumble across like Kevin
and Chris One.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
No, I can't do it that time. It's weird enough
to think like, oh, Tina, like Kevin was trying to
explain this to me earlier, like it's like we imagine
ourselves in it, right, because we're if we're being written about.
But then it's like a whole other level if you're
like talking about the person behind the character. Yeah, it's
very strange. Yeah, but I'm I respect it. I I
(30:00):
really do. I get it, you know what I mean?
Like this is something I love it as a creating readers.
I don't really makes me to read it, but I
want to know about it. That's the thing. I'm so
fascinated by it, and I'm.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
There's like there's a layer of protection. Yeah, Allison can tell.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Us, yes, she's exactly. Honestly, though, I would read fan
fiction if it wasn't about Glee or our characters much
easier than I would if it was Tina and Artie
or Jenna and Kavin. You know, why do you make sense?
Speaker 2 (30:29):
I do have a question though, and I don't. I know,
you're not necessarily like the authority of No. Okay, she
is all right as the authority figure of Lee fantic No.
Why do you think it is seventy five percent male
male relationships and clean?
Speaker 8 (30:48):
That's such a good question too.
Speaker 9 (30:50):
I mean, I think it's I think because of how
monumental Kurt and Blaine's relationship was for television in general, right,
I think that unlocked a door for Oh, I can
write stories like that.
Speaker 8 (31:05):
Stories like that are okay to talk about.
Speaker 9 (31:08):
Oh, I'm also going to write stories, and I'm also
going to take it like I think Curtain Blaine, for
a lot of people, including myself, was like the reason
that you watched the show and the reason that you
like really got into it, and there are tumblers completely
dedicated to them, and people were really, really, really all
about those characters. And so I think that's probably why.
(31:33):
And I think most of those male male relationships are
Curtain Blaine or just exploring that, because fan fiction is
you can make it whatever you want, and the little
nuances of like oh I kind of saw Sam looking
at Finn in the choir room. I'm going to take
that nuance in the episode, and I'm going to make
(31:53):
a whole entire story about it.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Oh that made me want to look it up. No,
maybe that's why I'm the target audience. People are starved
for this content. Jenna. Oh, it's so good, Like you
have the parameters set up right, like and so then
it's like, oh, we needed this type of relationship, and
(32:15):
now these characters exist in the world, exists, what else
can we do with them?
Speaker 9 (32:20):
Exactly if it's not if not, it's not happening on
TV like I wanted to.
Speaker 8 (32:24):
I'm just gonna make it myself.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Makes sense, and I think.
Speaker 9 (32:28):
It in turn reinforces the watching of the actual content, right,
because you've got these like head canons now in your head,
like oh yeah, Salmon Finn, They're definitely.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Yes yeah, which explained about like eighty percent of the
tweets I get, oh yeah, Like I knew somewhere that
this was a part of it, but I think I
didn't realize it was a huge of it. Yeah, because
people ask me crazy shit, I'm like what, like what, No,
(33:00):
Like we're just that sort of thing like Sam and Lardy.
Sam's bisexual, Like No, I don't.
Speaker 5 (33:08):
Think where does that come from.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Yeah, but I'm sure that's all because there was a look,
a comment and then.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
And then some fan fiction.
Speaker 9 (33:16):
Yeah, and I think people want to see themselves in
those characters totally.
Speaker 8 (33:20):
They want to relate.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
So Alison, thank you so much for coming and sharing
with us. This is always wonderful to see you. Yeah,
come back soon, good to see you.
Speaker 8 (33:35):
Thank you so much for you.
Speaker 6 (33:38):
Up.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Of course they had Andrew. She's so great, she's the best.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
This makes so much sense to me, Jenna does it.
It does. So There's my favorite teen show of all
time is called Scom. It's from Norway and each episode
each season focused on a different person within like a
friend group. And then the third season was a gay
storyline and it became the massive fiction tumbled tumblred thing
(34:11):
that year. And that was like six or seven years ago,
I think, And so that was, you know, post Glee,
and I think that, yeah, it all makes sense. That's
because like when there's a hunger for these types of
relationships and then when they're on screen and then.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
They there's just a world in which they're then creating.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
The male mayor relationship though and not like the Britney
Santana relationship.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
I think they're popular as well, though I would imagine.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
But maybe in different mediums, Like maybe in a different form.
It's not necessarily the fan fiction, right.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Okay, So last time we have Pamela. Pamela is one
of our og Glee fans. Very exciting and she's an
og when it comes to fan fiction as well. She's
also has your dream job, Kevin. She's a manager of
a bookstore. So, I mean, there's not a lot else
that we have to say.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
I can't wait to talk to her.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah, she writes fan fake and she's part of the
fandom since she was a kid. So let's do it.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Hello, Hi, Hi Pama. How's it going.
Speaker 5 (35:24):
I'm a little overwhelmed.
Speaker 6 (35:25):
That's like, Oh, I'm contributing some wonderful people. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Thank you for taking the time too. Yeah talk to us.
Speaker 5 (35:35):
Oh well, thank you.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Very excited to talk to you because so we're talking.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
About fan fiction all day today.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Yeah, because it keeps coming up as we're doing this podcast.
Speaker 5 (35:44):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
And a couple of things. One, yes, you're like an
og gleek. Yes, like Glee fan.
Speaker 5 (35:52):
I am, yes.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Og sort of dabbler in the fan fiction. Yeah, And
also you have like my dream job of like working
like managing a bookstore.
Speaker 5 (36:04):
Yes, I run a bookstore.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Wow, you were just like surrounded by all this literary
creativity all the time, which I'm very jealous of. I
just wanted, like, how we'll start at the beginning and
then we'll see because I feel like there's a beautiful
line here. But so you started watching Glee when it
(36:28):
was originally on.
Speaker 5 (36:28):
Right, Yes, I did, Yes, I did?
Speaker 2 (36:32):
What and or how did you find the fan fiction
while you were watching? Like what brought you to finding
fan fiction? How did you stumble across it?
Speaker 6 (36:43):
Okay, Well, the thing about it is that, I mean
I'm an older fan, and uh, the gleeve was not
my first fandom experience, so like I started the one
before I was in the office, so I had like
we're a office fan fiction too, and like before and
all that. And I've been writing stories and can fiction
since I was nine years old, I mean like getting
(37:05):
on like onto like the internet and like in nineteen
ninety eight and nine.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
And like getting something.
Speaker 6 (37:14):
So so you know, I started watching the show and
about halfway through it, I was like, Okay, I want
to read more stories about these characters that.
Speaker 5 (37:24):
I love and I mean I love the show.
Speaker 6 (37:27):
I know there's ups and downs and everything, but like
you kind of just want more of it, and so
it's like okay, I so I started seaking it out
and I got on and I mean back then there
was something called the Glee Form. It's now defunct, unfortunately,
but started there there was live journals. I don't know
if you guys know a live journal, yes, and.
Speaker 5 (37:50):
Went to there and there was a really there are
all these little communities.
Speaker 6 (37:53):
For all the characters, for all the ships, for all
of everything, and you just would like find your community
and then you would just start wrecking people would wreck stuff.
So you'd find your favorite authors. And then it was like, well,
you know, I can do this too, So I started
writing my own and you know, you kind of find
your little place in the community in the world.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Wow, that's amazing. So you had written and read for
several TV series for yes ideas, why do you think it?
Because Mike qu like, what was it about? Maybe halfway
through the series that's sort of like, is it the
series now is not going how I wanted to go,
And maybe.
Speaker 6 (38:36):
Like, let's put all the cards on the table. You know,
my favorite character's cart and then of course season four
happens and you're like, yeah, going on, like what are
the writers doing to all of these like just like
broke everybody up. So you're like, okay, how can you
like a some people want to fix it or be
like what is the mental? Like how did you get
(38:57):
from A to B? And so you just want to
start feeling in the blinks. And you know there's always
i mean season once, there's a ton of fan fiction,
and then in season four it just blew up to
everybody wanted to just fill in the blinks. And there's
all these characters and people are leaving and people are
coming in, and everybody's breaking up, and so it just
becomes this like mecca of creativity. Like me just start
(39:18):
wanting to like expand on and explore it and see
what the characters are thinking and you.
Speaker 5 (39:24):
Know, why did this character do this thing?
Speaker 6 (39:26):
And you just keep going And that's kind of what
got me into it, is like this the possibility of
creativity and seeing what I can do with the characters.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
I mean, you started writing when you were nine, Yeah,
what about it? Like were you always like interested in
writing at that point or was it more about the
world itself, and like creating, you know, the creativity aspect
of it, because you're still writing now. So I'm just
curious what's like, what was it when you started, and
then what's carried you through?
Speaker 8 (39:57):
Oh?
Speaker 6 (39:57):
Sure, I love storytelling. I write original book as well,
and I just love stories.
Speaker 5 (40:02):
I mean, you know.
Speaker 6 (40:04):
It's for me, like you know, I love books obviously,
I love reading books, but also I like having control
over the characters.
Speaker 5 (40:12):
I love being able to, like you know.
Speaker 6 (40:14):
Move them in the direction like dolls and direct and
put people in places that I want to put them
in and see them. And I just have always had
that kind of creative spirit and so you know, it
just translates into all of these other mediums and stuff
like that.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
So amazing.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Wow, And what kind of original stories do you write?
Speaker 5 (40:34):
Oh? Everything?
Speaker 6 (40:36):
I mean I've been writing a fantasy series and it's
a reaction a little bit, like you read so much
and then you're like, oh, I want to see this
kind of thing in fiction. I want to see you know,
this kind of a character. I want to see you
know myself, or I want to see you know something
that I don't see in published fiction or even band fiction.
Speaker 5 (40:55):
You know, and that's what that's why I write.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
When you are, you know, in sort of these other communities.
Are those relationships now that like we learned today that
you have like a beta or somebody that can no.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
I was curious, we've learned about betas, and are you
a beta for other people? Do you have betas or
are you more of an individual writer?
Speaker 8 (41:19):
I do?
Speaker 6 (41:20):
I really have like some people in my life that
will read my writing. I'm terrible at it. There's two
different there're two different skill sets to be able to
like write something down and then able to like look
at somebody's work and go, okay, normally does this common
here or there?
Speaker 5 (41:35):
But also.
Speaker 6 (41:38):
You know, you know what, I don't think that this
thematic thing is going with the way you want it
and stuff like that, and you know, taking yourself out
of it. So I have I work with a woman
who I've known for years now and she's in the
fandom as well, and she is my beta, and we
work on all sorts of things, like you know, anytime
I write something, her name is in near mind because
she's always helping me with this.
Speaker 5 (41:59):
So it's again it's what.
Speaker 6 (42:00):
That community aspect, we just cultivate all of these relationships
with each other and share it and prompt each other
and like, hey, maybe you want to try writing this,
or I know you're really good at writing this kind
of story and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
So it's also amazing that it's there. Are you know,
all these people who are writing, like and reading and
doing all these wonderfully creative things where I think it's
so easy. If you're not on that side of the
internet and you don't know about it, then people that
doesn't exist to them, right, and you get caught up
and like, oh, social media is bad, all this internet stuff.
(42:36):
But like, what you guys are doing is incentivizing each
other to be creative, express these things, find those places
and the mediums that you haven't seen and want to fill,
which I think is so beautiful, and like building these
friendships based off of that.
Speaker 6 (42:50):
It's and it's kind of a I mean, it's kind
of an interesting thing because yeah, we're doing it for
ourselves and each other. And every time I hear like,
you know, I'm going to share my stuff with Kevin
and Jenna, and I'm like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 5 (43:03):
Why it's not for them? You know that I don't
want you guys to read it or be involved.
Speaker 6 (43:07):
I think that's really cool that you guys want to
like understand and know more about it. But it's one
of those things where it's like, you know, this is
the stuff that we do and it isn't meant for
you guys. But I mean, I think it's amazing that
you guys are coming with an open mind and being like.
Speaker 5 (43:25):
What is this, what's going on? What I have about it?
I think that is so cool.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Yeah, we're huge consumers and fans and of other things,
and so we're just it's hard for us to kind
of take ourselves out of it, especially with any fanfic, right,
it's very hard to relate or understand it. And so
but as fans of other shows, I could totally understand
how I want more, I wish that happened this character.
(43:53):
So I totally get it. But it's it's like we
were explaining to some other people, Like it's kind of
hard becase is in the fan fiction, Like even if
it's Tina and Lartie and not Jenna and Kevin, you
still imagine yourself. You put yourself in that position, right,
you're imagining yourself in.
Speaker 5 (44:10):
That writing it. I you know, I disassociate.
Speaker 6 (44:14):
I don't you know, if I'm writing Tina or already,
I still think, Okay, how are Kevin and.
Speaker 5 (44:20):
Jenna are going to hear?
Speaker 6 (44:21):
Like?
Speaker 5 (44:21):
How are they sound? In my head?
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Because it's you guys.
Speaker 5 (44:24):
I don't think of you guys. I know you guys
are separate people. I'm not right, But it's still the character.
Speaker 6 (44:29):
Like the things and choices acting choices that you do
actually reflect on the fan fiction that I write because
I want to incorporate what you're doing on screen, and
I can't imagine that's got to be a weird disassociative
thing that happens, because totally like that is you, essentially
or you guys put so much into it yourself and
(44:49):
creating these characters to see them go in a direction
that they may not be what your head canon is.
Speaker 5 (44:55):
That's got to be surreal.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
But I think what you said is important though, because
you're creating these stories regardless of how you yeah for yourselves,
for the community, So like, within that context, you all
know because you're all doing it, what goes into making
it and sort of the dissociation that you're taking from
people in real life sort of. And so I do
(45:18):
think you know. I think it's I understand why you're
sort of protective of that community of like Jen and
Kevin don't need to read these things. Yeah, you guys
support each other. It's a full, like you know, ecosystem
within itself, and I think that's like it the more
and more I hear about it. One, I'm jealous that
(45:39):
I haven't been writing fanfic for years. Two is that
it's like a really beautiful, like culture and like healthy
culture on the internet. Totally that is not always easy
to find.
Speaker 5 (45:52):
Totally it is well, I mean google it, you can.
You can find anything by Google.
Speaker 6 (45:56):
But I think it's you know, I I've been talking
to people about it, and there's so many reasons why
it's not just okay, I mean, yeah, part of it
can be Oh, I want to see my two favorite
hot characters make out.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Okay, that's a real thing.
Speaker 6 (46:10):
But you know, I've known people who've explored their own
sexualities through their writing. I know people who like read
stuff and they're like, you know what that this reflects
to me? And just like are in published form, fanfic
does the same thing. But it is already a built world,
like it takes out when you're writing something you know original.
(46:31):
You have to build the world here. You can take
characters that you're already familiar with and work with them
and then find exactly this is.
Speaker 5 (46:39):
The good stuff.
Speaker 6 (46:40):
But yeah, and it's on it well that is joking aside,
you know that it's on edited and not in a
like literary way, but like we're not constrained to network
notes or editors telling us that you can't publish this,
or that we can write whatever we want and it
can mat or anything.
Speaker 5 (46:57):
But it's open and limitless.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Really good point. Good point.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
Do you still have shows that you watch currently that
you write fan fix for?
Speaker 5 (47:08):
I don't.
Speaker 6 (47:10):
I've been really really busy with my job and stuff
like that. So I mean, I do you still to
write some Glee stuff? But I like, there's a lot
of things I love, but I haven't really gotten kind
as much into it as like, you know, it's time consuming,
it is, you can you know, when I was in
my twenties, sure I had a lot more time.
Speaker 5 (47:29):
But now that I'm in my forties, I have to
like actually to my.
Speaker 4 (47:32):
Adult live, like real life you know, adult life responsibilities.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
Right now, I want to know all your like book recommendations,
I'm like, I gotta yeah, let me find books though
I have too many. Going to the bookstore is my
favorite thing in the world.
Speaker 6 (47:49):
Oh yeah, I mean I have eight bookcases. If you're
any recommendations, you guys, just let me know.
Speaker 5 (47:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
Thanks you well, Pamela, thank you so much for sharing
all about fan fa and for you know, your contributions,
and it's just really nice to meet you and chat
with you.
Speaker 5 (48:05):
Oh it's been I can't believe. It's like a dream.
Thank you so much for that.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
Yeah, thank you, and thanks for what you do keep
the world reading important. It's great, it is.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
Thanks so much by Yeah, I'm coming out smarter, more
well just versed fan fiction, but I am. I appreciate it.
I'm so grateful to our friends Pamela, Bree Allison who
(48:39):
came and shared with us their experience with man fiction.
It's it's actually a really cool community and at the
end of the day, people are just looking for connection,
whether that's in their own world or with other people.
It's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
I think it's wonderful. I also love even with the
three of them, I'll have three different relationships to fan
fiction and what they like, what they write about their experiences,
and thank you so much to the three of you
for joining us today and for opening up and sharing
this part of yourselves with us and with all the listeners.
(49:17):
I hope you all enjoyed that. I know loved that.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
Very cool, very very cool.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Do I go and look for things, Jenna.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
That's up to you, Kevin.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
I don't know. Maybe I could do a light skin.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
I don't know that there's a light scan. I didn't
know there's like chapters and not like actual like journeys.
I just thought it was kind of like live journal.
You don't mean in the beginning when it's like you
you post a one off kind of thing. But I
am just I'm so it's so intricate and complex and fun. Okay, Well,
(49:59):
good luck on your search, Kevin. And that's what you
really missed.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
See ya.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
Ho ho ho Mary Snicks Miss. We are here with
our fourth annual Snicks Miss Charity Drive.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
In honor of our friend Nira Vera and her favorite
charity that she worked with, Alexandria House, which is based
out of la We have put together something very special,
very meaningful this year, so keep an eye out in
the coming days check our socials.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
Make sure you don't miss anything. We think you're really
gonna like this, so stay tuned and Mary Snicks miss.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
Thanks for listening, and follow us on Instagram at and
that's what you really miss pod. Make sure to write
us a review and leave us five stars. See you
next time.
And that's what you really missed with Jenna.
Speaker 2 (00:04):
And Kevin an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:09):
Welcome to and That's what you really missed fanfic addition.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Yo, do people go fanfic? Yeah? Okay, fan fiction, fanfic.
I am nervous.
Speaker 1 (00:24):
This is so fascinating to me because I've never I
never would have come across fan fiction. I've got to
be completely honest. It's just not something that would have come.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Across my internet girly like.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
No and I. But I love learning about it and
understanding why people are connected to it and why they
do it. So I buckle up, everyone.
Speaker 2 (00:49):
Strap in. We are exploring the world of Glee fan fiction.
We have three wonderful guests today that are going to
take us through how they found fan fiction, what it
means to them, and just explain the world to us
because we don't know anything about this because I have
sort of steered myself and others on the show away
(01:09):
from it after accidentally stumbling across the story.
Speaker 1 (01:12):
Yeah, we had to debunk this.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Yeah, so yeah, we want to hear about all the
wonderful things fan fiction does.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
And is okay, So first, Kevin, we have Brie, who
is the reason why we're doing this to begin with,
so Bre reached out to our producer because she wants
to debunk the fan fiction that we all hear about
the misconceptions. Yes, misconceptions. She's a family trauma therapist and
(01:44):
she's a Glee fan. She loves Britanna and she's into
fanfic and I can't wait to hear from her.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah, who better to introduce us to the world. This
is Bree.
Speaker 1 (01:55):
Hello, Bri. Hi, guys, Hi, how are you.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
I'm good, how are you?
Speaker 2 (02:02):
Nice to meet you.
Speaker 3 (02:04):
Wonderful meeting you.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Thanks, thank you for being here, joining us.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
Reaching out with this awesome idea.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
Absolutely, I've heard you guys talk about it before, and
I'm like, I really wish I could clear the air here.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
Let's clear the air.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
What we were talking about is fan fiction because we
inadvertently are aware of it because obviously people wrote about
the show we were on. But you wrote fan fiction?
Yes I did, Okay, So just start at the beginning.
Speaker 3 (02:43):
Yes, absolutely, I will take you back. So I was
a little a little bit older than the other guests
you've had on the show. When the show was popular.
I was in I was finishing up undergrad so I
was in my twenties. Yeah, you're right, Yeah, so I
(03:06):
you know, and when I heard about the show, I
really wasn't aware of it in the first season. And
I remember my ex came to me during second season
when the Brittany Brittany episode aired and was like, these
people are going to do these songs, you know, covering Brittany,
and I was like, how dare they?
Speaker 4 (03:24):
Like, let's watch this because there's hate watch it right,
So we tuned in and I wish it was this
like magical, my eye opening moment, but no, I was like, no,
that's trash.
Speaker 3 (03:36):
I can't watch the show. And I couldn't stop thinking
about it, like it was. It was weeks and weeks.
I was like, you know what, I was actually pretty good.
And I went back and I watched the episode over again,
and I was like, oh, damn, okay, all right, so
let's figure out what this is all about. So I
went back to the beginning and started to to rewatch slowly,
(03:59):
and by the time that I had hit Your Guys'
live airing, it was beginning a third season. So I
missed the tour, I missed everything, and then I got
really into it and something just clicked with you know,
the show. It really hit me in a way and
(04:19):
that I needed at the time. And just to talk
about fan culture, I'm probably not going to use the
word obsessive because it has a negative connotation to it.
Some call it hyper fixation. So I became super hyper
fixated with the show with certain storylines, and that really
(04:41):
led me to start venturing into the internet, which is
a dangerous place, definitely. And someone was like, hey, no,
people write about this stuff. It's like what, So I
went on. I read a few weirded me out at first,
but I was always into creative writing, so I was like,
wait a second, maybe I can do this. And it
(05:01):
was pretty crappy writing in the beginning. I started writing.
It was not good.
Speaker 1 (05:06):
Did you post that what you were writing?
Speaker 5 (05:08):
I did?
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Yes, really immature writing at first, and then I just
dove into it and I got a lot better. And
I was raised in a house where, you know, my
grandmother had a master's in British lit and a master's
in English, and so I was already pretty decent with
with the writing piece. And I actually still write to
(05:32):
this day.
Speaker 1 (05:34):
And you still do you write about any other characters
outside of Glee. Yes, in the world.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Okay, two shows have made it to that point in
my brain.
Speaker 2 (05:44):
Wow, it's a good way to put it.
Speaker 3 (05:47):
Yes, okay, it's a great escape, honestly, and.
Speaker 2 (05:52):
What a great exercise also for creative writing. And you
also like, when you were putting it up, what where
would you post these things?
Speaker 3 (05:58):
Yeah? So this was all the way back when I
started finding stories, was all the way back when live
journal was a thing. I never was on live journal,
but I moved onto fanfiction dot Net and then transferred
over to a site called Archive of our Own, which
is now really the primary site. There are others that
are coming out, but that's a great one.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
So okay, I have so many questions. Oh no, I'm
interested because you are a family trauma therapist, Chris.
Speaker 6 (06:30):
I am.
Speaker 1 (06:31):
So there's a lot of I'm sure of breaking down
if you will, of this fan fiction. But I was
wondering before we get into that portion of the interview,
did you do you find there's a community that you
connect with in the fan fiction world or is it
(06:51):
kind of more individual and you share and read and
write on your own.
Speaker 3 (06:57):
Yeah, it's a little bit of both actually. So in
the very beginning it was a very connective piece where
you were finding other authors. Sometimes you reached out to
them and you're like, hey, love your story, this is great,
and you connected with people. And Tumblr was a huge
bridge for that as well. Uh, fan fiction and Tumblr
are a very close relationship.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
And so I found that out by accident one time.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Oh I want to know about that, he said, one time?
Get off here.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
Yeah, and now this is obviously before the restrictions were
put on Tumblr too.
Speaker 7 (07:33):
Yes, okay, there were illustrations. Oh yes, it's a world okay, sorry,
a great sense of community.
Speaker 3 (07:47):
Right, So I did find a close group of friends
that I have actually met, right, we just wrote together.
So when you are writing a fan fiction story, you
actually are encouraged to find what's called a beta and
aa is somebody who edits and reads your story and
gives you feedback. And so you can go ahead and
let your beta read it and they give you the feedback,
(08:08):
you make the changes, and then you post it. So
you're pretty much partnered with somebody, which is really great,
and you find that person yourself or people volunteer.
Speaker 5 (08:17):
Very cool.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
Wow, So do you read other people and like, oh
I like their style, maybe they'd be a good fit
with me to be beta.
Speaker 3 (08:24):
Absolutely, I used to. I am totally individual now, so
now that I've gotten older and I have a family,
I don't really have time for all that communication. So
I do write on my own and I'm pretty confident
in my writing now that i can do it without
an editor. But yeah, so I'm solo.
Speaker 1 (08:41):
Now, Okay, yeah, okay, Jenna, No, I gotta. I'm so
curious of what your analysis is of the psychology behind
fan fiction. Great question, give it to us, all right.
Speaker 3 (09:00):
So there are so many reasons, right why someone might
become deeply engrossed in something, whether it be an artist
or a show or a movie. And I don't want
to categorize these things to where people are like, no,
that's not true for me. That's not true for me.
There's a ton of things we don't have enough time
in the world to get into the case. Yes, yeah,
(09:21):
but for something that happened for me was when you're
going through something traumatic or very heavily impactful, or you're
unhappy or you're uncomfortable in your environment. Some people really
like to become lost inside a world that isn't their own,
(09:41):
whether it be books or painting or drawing or TV shows, music,
whatever the medium. Right, there's the comfort in having somewhere
to go that makes you feel safer than where you
actually are. And it's not to say that there isn't
a true appreciation for the art or the acting or whatever,
you know, whatever it is, but it is an escape
and it's a safe place. So we can, you know,
(10:05):
we get lost in the space where you research and
you overanalyze and you rewatch, and that's where sort of
fan fiction comes in, is you sort of dive into
a space where you don't have to deal with whatever
it is it's going on. So that is a huge
reason why people can become very lost. And I do
(10:26):
want to say that just because someone gets hyper fixated,
it's not really an excuse for them to bully or
act in appropriately or violate your personal boundaries. Right, This
is just a much safer way for them to have
an outlet from what's really going on in the real world.
Speaker 2 (10:42):
Yeah, that makes sense. It's also I imagine too, when
you're then you start getting into fan fiction, you're creating
the narrative. You're creating the world world, the safe world
maybe in which you wish was happening in your life world.
Speaker 3 (10:56):
Yes, totally. You can do that, or you can go
completely fan you can go totally out of left field,
which is also a huge thing that you see in
fan fiction as well. And not to mention they you know,
it's so much easier to write this story right when
the characters are already established, the world already established, because
world buildings really hard. So it is nice. It's not that,
(11:20):
you know, we want to obsess over these characters necessarily,
it's just that they're there for us and we know
them and we feel like, you know, what's going on
inside their heads. So you want to place that in
a situation that you really want, you know, people to
read about.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
Hmmm, well, now I'm I'm very curious.
Speaker 3 (11:38):
It's not all sketchy and it's well.
Speaker 1 (11:42):
I think that's important though, because not everybody knows about
fan fiction, right. This is something that I learned about
because of I was on Glee. I don't know that
I would ever have learned about it otherwise. And so
for people who don't know about fan fiction, can you
debunk what what some of those myths and things are
like some of the things that surround it.
Speaker 3 (12:03):
Absolutely, yeah, I mean one of the most common misconceptions
about fan fiction is that it's all erotic literature. Right, Yeah,
smut is a great fan fiction word. It's not promise.
There is plenty of that. I'm not going to say
it doesn't exist. There is a lot of it.
Speaker 2 (12:24):
There's something for everyone.
Speaker 3 (12:25):
There's something for everyone. And that's really it, right is
there is something for everyone. If you want something more
mild PG, a really nice fluff story is what they
call it, something with a lot of happy feelings. You
can find that, and then you can find something really
angsty if you're feeling in a mood like you want
to murder mystery. Honestly, you can go down that route
(12:46):
as well. There's a lot of post apocalyptic stories. It's
just people taking these characters and putting them into even
other shows like Walking Dead or something like that, and
really making you, you know, your careacters live out what
they would react in that setting, which is really fun.
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Which just makes a lot of sense. I mean, it's
all based off of fictional people, fictional settings and situations,
and so it's I think it's like Jennifer, you and
I I can see your wheels turning. I think sometimes
it's hard to like separate ourselves from like characters that
we may play because like we see ourselves doing it,
and so then we correlate that to if people are
(13:25):
writing about this, then we're picturing ourselves in those situations
where it's like, well, no, these are fictional characters, right,
doing fictional things. And people can put Already and Tina
into the Walking Dead and like, how would they do?
Good luck time? Not well, but I.
Speaker 3 (13:44):
Cannot imagine what it's like to something and picture yourself
in it, right, But.
Speaker 2 (13:52):
I do understand though, Like as a fan of fiction,
I read a lot, I watch a lot of TV,
a lot of movies. How that could be appealing and
how that could be like such a great creative outlet,
a great community building, right, And also they have finding
other stories of things you're interested in that you may
not feel inclined to write about, but like, oh I
(14:13):
want to see what that what that's all about?
Speaker 3 (14:16):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (14:16):
Absolutely, well thanks for that.
Speaker 2 (14:19):
That didn't take me long to be sold on that,
did it?
Speaker 5 (14:22):
And listen here?
Speaker 3 (14:23):
And I want to show you guys something and it's
it's super weird and personal to me. But I not
only love to write, but I love to edit. And
I did edit a story for somebody once and it's
my favoritely fan fiction I've ever edited, and so for myself,
I got it published into a real.
Speaker 2 (14:44):
Book that is long.
Speaker 3 (14:47):
Yes, it's a full twenty seven chapter, four hundred page story,
and you know, I've reread it five or six times
in the last several years, and it sits on my
shelf and I can pull it off and it feels
like a real comfort story.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
Oh so vast. Oh my god, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2 (15:10):
We're sitting here with our mouths open.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (15:14):
That's incredible.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
This is wow.
Speaker 2 (15:16):
Really bring back a lot of memories. Actually, because I
have to say so back to like I don't know,
teen closeted me. I would go on Tumblr and look
for like gay fiction stories because I didn't know where
to find them or I didn't have any gay friends,
and so I would find and not like smut, as
(15:37):
we said, but you know it's like what you might
see now and a heart stopper or sex education, like
these stories that I couldn't yes, And then I could
search on Tumblr and like find these wonderful made up stories.
And some of them were like more unrefined than others,
(15:57):
more amateur sounding than others, but it didn't matter because
you could tell these people were learning and as you
were like reading these very they could be very long,
as like you just held up that book and the
chapters would get better and better and better because the
writers were getting better and better. And it was like
a really my favorite thing to like do, one line,
was to read these stories.
Speaker 3 (16:18):
Yeah, and that's a huge reason too. And I, you know,
we grew up I think in probably the same era.
And I also was desperate for queer content, and for me,
I think it came a little later. You know, as
a lesbian there was a lot of lesbian representation. You
had the L word, but I was seventeen. I was
probably a little young for that. So I came. But
(16:41):
you know, the first show that I really found was
on a network called The En. I don't know if
you remember that, yeah, yes, and it's a show called
South of Nowhere.
Speaker 2 (16:50):
Yes, yep.
Speaker 3 (16:52):
That was my very first representation of a lesbian relationship
on television that wasn't a side joke. You So, so
when Glee came around and the whole Brittany and Santana
relationship blew my mind, right, that was something that I
needed in that moment. And I needed more and more
of it, so down these paths as you just talked about.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Yeah, totally. Well, this is thank you for sharing with
us all of these wonderful things. This is so fascinating
and you you're the one who you know, reached out
to our producer to say, let's let's talk about this
fan fiction thing. So thank you so much for opening
up the conversation and you know, getting us to do
this podcast episode. It's very, very cool, and we're so
(17:38):
grateful for you and all of these wonderful things you've
shared with us. So thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (17:43):
Grace having distinctly explained it to idiots like us, appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (17:47):
So listen, it's my job.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
Yes, true, I get that, we get that. Thank you
so much. Gre's really nice to meet you, of course, anytime.
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (18:09):
Okay, Next up, we have one of our old friends, Allison,
co host of Gleek of the Week podcast. Who knew Alison,
who is a host of a Glee podcast, dabbled in
Glee fanfic. I'm very excited, very excited to have Alison back,
so let's talk to her again.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
I'm sorry now, we're just she's been too much time
to time together.
Speaker 3 (18:38):
How are you?
Speaker 1 (18:40):
How are you so great?
Speaker 8 (18:43):
So excited to speak with you all again.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
I know, thanks for coming on. We just we have
talking about some fan fiction. You know, we.
Speaker 2 (18:51):
Decided because it keeps coming up and like we need
to just hunker down here and figure out out because
we know you read fan fiction. Oh yeah, you've written
some fan fiction. Yeah, how did it come to you?
How did you find fan fiction?
Speaker 1 (19:11):
Tell us?
Speaker 8 (19:11):
How did I find fan fiction?
Speaker 1 (19:14):
Hm?
Speaker 8 (19:16):
I was heavily on. I think the.
Speaker 9 (19:21):
Glee fan to Tumblr pipeline to fanfiction dot net is
like a straight line that steps one, two, and three.
And because I remember following all of these Glee tumblers
and they would like link, I think the people that
would post on Tumblr were creative types, writing types, drawing types.
Speaker 8 (19:45):
So like, in addition to fan art, there was.
Speaker 9 (19:48):
Fan fiction and the people that I followed would post
their fix or like.
Speaker 8 (19:57):
Or stories that they're like. This is like same to
talk to Kevin mckalon, Janoshkow. It's about this is it's
such a full circle moment. This feels so this is
healing in many ways.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
Let it out.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
Yea, that is what our podcast is for.
Speaker 9 (20:19):
So yeah, that's how I kind of found it, and there,
I mean fanfiction dot Net. I think Glee was like
one of the biggest branches. I don't have the like statistics,
but I think it has to be one of the
biggest branches.
Speaker 8 (20:35):
I think Harry Potter is up there and the Glee world.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
Because because of the fan base.
Speaker 9 (20:42):
And I think the vent diagram for those fandoms is
pretty close to being a circle totally. But yeah, that's
how I found it and how I started writing it.
Speaker 8 (20:57):
There were just well, I have two stories.
Speaker 9 (21:01):
I have a fincial story called Fate Has this is
hilarious to speak.
Speaker 8 (21:08):
About, called Fate Has dealt its cards.
Speaker 9 (21:11):
I when I wrote, I only wrote like four chapters
per story.
Speaker 8 (21:19):
They're complete there. They don't wrap up.
Speaker 9 (21:22):
There's not like building action, a climax and then like
denument like a resolution.
Speaker 8 (21:28):
It's just like stream out there exactly.
Speaker 9 (21:33):
And that's I have a fincial story and I have
a claim story.
Speaker 8 (21:38):
And those are my two number ones.
Speaker 9 (21:41):
And I had like, like in twenty eleven, I was
what fifteen so very much like do some creative writing
with these these tropes that I love, because like my
claim story is if what would happen if Blaine's dad
(22:06):
enlisted him in the army and they were separated, which
is like kind of my hair is my favorite musical
And at fifteen, that's all I wanted to think about.
I was very obsessed with like nineteen sixty eight, nineteen
sixty nine, like woodstock hair, Vietnam War era.
Speaker 2 (22:27):
Blaine goes to war.
Speaker 1 (22:29):
Getsped drafted for the wary.
Speaker 9 (22:33):
Blaine gets drafted and yeah, and I had this beautiful
scene in my head that I don't ever think made
it to fan fiction.
Speaker 2 (22:40):
Done that, but it was like the goal, the guiding.
Speaker 8 (22:44):
Goal, the guiding light was going to be.
Speaker 9 (22:48):
Blaine is like for some reason, they're putting army musicians
on the radio and Kurt would be just planning around
with the radio and here Blaine, oh, from across the globe.
Speaker 1 (23:03):
Very good, very good, beautiful. Okay, Okay, well, thanks for
sharing that. Have you written fan fiction since?
Speaker 10 (23:12):
No?
Speaker 1 (23:13):
I need to ask.
Speaker 2 (23:14):
It was like a fifteen year old thing for you
in that.
Speaker 1 (23:16):
Creative writing moment.
Speaker 9 (23:18):
It was a fifteen year old creative writing moment. And
since then, I mean I've had my like, oh.
Speaker 8 (23:23):
This would be such a good story.
Speaker 9 (23:25):
It's I'm a very big reader, and that hasn't changed,
and so I still have these like little ideas in
my head that are still very much kind of similar,
like based in the nineteen sixties and that sort of
era storyline. But I haven't written any fan fiction recently. However,
(23:49):
I did in high school as like a little fun thing.
Speaker 8 (23:54):
And I haven't even like, I don't know even if
I've told my co host Andrew.
Speaker 1 (23:58):
About this story, well, he's gonna find out exactly.
Speaker 9 (24:02):
I used to on Facebook Messenger write little blurbs about
my best friend Carrie and Michael Buble. I used to
write little blurbs that turned into a fan fiction, and
one year, for her birthday, I turned those blurbs into
a physical book and I gave her one final chapter
(24:23):
and I gave that to a Runner birthday.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
Great. Do you ever go back and read these?
Speaker 8 (24:30):
Absolutely not. We did.
Speaker 9 (24:33):
We did read the Client Fact fan fiction for a
bonus episode one time, and we've read some of the
like most chaotic Glee fan fictions just for for ships
and gigs. And it's reading my writing hurts the most.
I think it's like it's like reading my diary age fifteen.
Speaker 1 (25:02):
It's just so interesting because we have, you know, We're
spoken to a group of people who have shared their
fan fiction experiences, and they're all so different. Right, some
people are continuing to write it is an outlet, it
is therapy. It is like something they're so proud of.
And then you know your experience, which is like it hurts,
(25:25):
it hurts, but fascinating, you know what. I get it.
I get it.
Speaker 2 (25:33):
I get it. It's like I feel watching myself like Glee.
Speaker 1 (25:36):
Totally totally has hurts so much. I did.
Speaker 8 (25:42):
Yeah, who was that? I don't know who?
Speaker 1 (25:46):
That is exactly getting I was. I always say like,
oh I wasn't trying there.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Every Now I'm like, oh I showed up that day.
So I imagine you go back and read writing.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
That's interesting, right if I.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Know now now, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (26:08):
You talked to Robert Alight recently because you guys are
watching the Glee Project, right.
Speaker 9 (26:12):
Yes, Andrew just did a full interview with Robert Alric
and it was amazing because we did just watch all
ten episodes of Glee Project season one, Oh my yeah,
and it was so so fun and it was The
interview with Robert was kind of just a nice little
stamp at the end to kind of summarize how we felt.
Speaker 8 (26:38):
But that was a journey.
Speaker 1 (26:39):
Oh, I'm sure that was truly a journey. I don't
think I could watch it.
Speaker 9 (26:44):
To you, it was hard to watch at some points.
It was very much like Sign of the Times.
Speaker 2 (26:50):
But I think i'd be stressed.
Speaker 10 (26:52):
Like these kids a lot, and the fact that we've
like spoken with a lot of them, like we've spoke
with Lindsay and Samue Larson and Damian McGinty, Like we've
spoken with so many of them.
Speaker 9 (27:05):
It's it's kind of like again full circle, like it
makes complete sense.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Totally, Yeah, totally.
Speaker 9 (27:15):
But when what I wanted to ask you is when
we did we did a whole fan fiction bonus episode,
and I drew up some statistics, and I went to
ourcove of our own and I made some graphs, and
I do you know who the most Glee fan fiction
is written about as a couple.
Speaker 8 (27:36):
Guess Clain for sure. Yeah, Clain is almost fifty percent.
Speaker 9 (27:42):
Yeah, more than fifty percent of Glee fan fictions that.
Speaker 8 (27:45):
Make every other category is like a nice little sliver
fifty percent.
Speaker 9 (27:54):
Clain and Blaine and Kurt are the two are the
two main stories. But then male male relationships are like
almost seventy five percent of all Glee fan fiction.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
It's like, yeah, I believe that.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Let me ask you, so, if clean Clean's written about
a lot, right, do other characters from the world show
up from Glee show up? Or is it really very
like clean centric if it's a clean story. I'm so curious.
Speaker 9 (28:25):
It's that's a very good question, and I think absolutely yes,
other characters show up in minor roles.
Speaker 8 (28:32):
I read a fan fiction and it was Blaine centric.
Speaker 9 (28:36):
But then you also have all the Warblers, like Wes
comes in, You've got Sebastian smythe You've got Rachel coming
in talking to Kurr. Got it, Okay, everybody else is there,
but like it's focusing on and like Bert and Carol.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
Of course there were have to be given. Okay, fascinating, you.
Speaker 2 (28:58):
Can find it. There's a whole world out there for you.
You can go find it.
Speaker 1 (29:03):
No, this is why I'm doing this in this in
this podcast is because this is a space, safe space,
fascinating to get to it. Interesting. I'm just touching the
line and that's as far as all go.
Speaker 9 (29:17):
Yeah, but I have you found fan fiction that's like
about not Tina and Artie.
Speaker 8 (29:23):
But Kevin and Jenna, well.
Speaker 1 (29:25):
We've heard about that certain Absolutely, it's even weirder.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
I keep saying that I did stumble across like Kevin
and Chris One.
Speaker 1 (29:38):
No, I can't do it that time. It's weird enough
to think like, oh, Tina, like Kevin was trying to
explain this to me earlier, like it's like we imagine
ourselves in it, right, because we're if we're being written about.
But then it's like a whole other level if you're
like talking about the person behind the character. Yeah, it's
very strange. Yeah, but I'm I respect it. I I
(30:00):
really do. I get it, you know what I mean?
Like this is something I love it as a creating readers.
I don't really makes me to read it, but I
want to know about it. That's the thing. I'm so
fascinated by it, and I'm.
Speaker 2 (30:12):
There's like there's a layer of protection. Yeah, Allison can tell.
Speaker 1 (30:16):
Us, yes, she's exactly. Honestly, though, I would read fan
fiction if it wasn't about Glee or our characters much
easier than I would if it was Tina and Artie
or Jenna and Kavin. You know, why do you make sense?
Speaker 2 (30:29):
I do have a question though, and I don't. I know,
you're not necessarily like the authority of No. Okay, she
is all right as the authority figure of Lee fantic No.
Why do you think it is seventy five percent male
male relationships and clean?
Speaker 8 (30:48):
That's such a good question too.
Speaker 9 (30:50):
I mean, I think it's I think because of how
monumental Kurt and Blaine's relationship was for television in general, right,
I think that unlocked a door for Oh, I can
write stories like that.
Speaker 8 (31:05):
Stories like that are okay to talk about.
Speaker 9 (31:08):
Oh, I'm also going to write stories, and I'm also
going to take it like I think Curtain Blaine, for
a lot of people, including myself, was like the reason
that you watched the show and the reason that you
like really got into it, and there are tumblers completely
dedicated to them, and people were really, really, really all
about those characters. And so I think that's probably why.
(31:33):
And I think most of those male male relationships are
Curtain Blaine or just exploring that, because fan fiction is
you can make it whatever you want, and the little
nuances of like oh I kind of saw Sam looking
at Finn in the choir room. I'm going to take
that nuance in the episode, and I'm going to make
(31:53):
a whole entire story about it.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Oh that made me want to look it up. No,
maybe that's why I'm the target audience. People are starved
for this content. Jenna. Oh, it's so good, Like you
have the parameters set up right, like and so then
it's like, oh, we needed this type of relationship, and
(32:15):
now these characters exist in the world, exists, what else
can we do with them?
Speaker 9 (32:20):
Exactly if it's not if not, it's not happening on
TV like I wanted to.
Speaker 8 (32:24):
I'm just gonna make it myself.
Speaker 2 (32:26):
Makes sense, and I think.
Speaker 9 (32:28):
It in turn reinforces the watching of the actual content, right,
because you've got these like head canons now in your head,
like oh yeah, Salmon Finn, They're definitely.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Yes yeah, which explained about like eighty percent of the
tweets I get, oh yeah, Like I knew somewhere that
this was a part of it, but I think I
didn't realize it was a huge of it. Yeah, because
people ask me crazy shit, I'm like what, like what, No,
(33:00):
Like we're just that sort of thing like Sam and Lardy.
Sam's bisexual, Like No, I don't.
Speaker 5 (33:08):
Think where does that come from.
Speaker 2 (33:09):
Yeah, but I'm sure that's all because there was a look,
a comment and then.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
And then some fan fiction.
Speaker 9 (33:16):
Yeah, and I think people want to see themselves in
those characters totally.
Speaker 8 (33:20):
They want to relate.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
So Alison, thank you so much for coming and sharing
with us. This is always wonderful to see you. Yeah,
come back soon, good to see you.
Speaker 8 (33:35):
Thank you so much for you.
Speaker 6 (33:38):
Up.
Speaker 1 (33:39):
Of course they had Andrew. She's so great, she's the best.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
This makes so much sense to me, Jenna does it.
It does. So There's my favorite teen show of all
time is called Scom. It's from Norway and each episode
each season focused on a different person within like a
friend group. And then the third season was a gay
storyline and it became the massive fiction tumbled tumblred thing
(34:11):
that year. And that was like six or seven years ago,
I think, And so that was, you know, post Glee,
and I think that, yeah, it all makes sense. That's
because like when there's a hunger for these types of
relationships and then when they're on screen and then.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
They there's just a world in which they're then creating.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
The male mayor relationship though and not like the Britney
Santana relationship.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
I think they're popular as well, though I would imagine.
Speaker 2 (34:40):
But maybe in different mediums, Like maybe in a different form.
It's not necessarily the fan fiction, right.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Okay, So last time we have Pamela. Pamela is one
of our og Glee fans. Very exciting and she's an
og when it comes to fan fiction as well. She's
also has your dream job, Kevin. She's a manager of
a bookstore. So, I mean, there's not a lot else
that we have to say.
Speaker 2 (35:11):
I can't wait to talk to her.
Speaker 1 (35:13):
Yeah, she writes fan fake and she's part of the
fandom since she was a kid. So let's do it.
Speaker 2 (35:20):
Hello, Hi, Hi Pama. How's it going.
Speaker 5 (35:24):
I'm a little overwhelmed.
Speaker 6 (35:25):
That's like, Oh, I'm contributing some wonderful people. Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Thank you for taking the time too. Yeah talk to us.
Speaker 5 (35:35):
Oh well, thank you.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Very excited to talk to you because so we're talking.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
About fan fiction all day today.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
Yeah, because it keeps coming up as we're doing this podcast.
Speaker 5 (35:44):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
And a couple of things. One, yes, you're like an
og gleek. Yes, like Glee fan.
Speaker 5 (35:52):
I am, yes.
Speaker 2 (35:54):
Og sort of dabbler in the fan fiction. Yeah, And
also you have like my dream job of like working
like managing a bookstore.
Speaker 5 (36:04):
Yes, I run a bookstore.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
Wow, you were just like surrounded by all this literary
creativity all the time, which I'm very jealous of. I
just wanted, like, how we'll start at the beginning and
then we'll see because I feel like there's a beautiful
line here. But so you started watching Glee when it
(36:28):
was originally on.
Speaker 5 (36:28):
Right, Yes, I did, Yes, I did?
Speaker 2 (36:32):
What and or how did you find the fan fiction
while you were watching? Like what brought you to finding
fan fiction? How did you stumble across it?
Speaker 6 (36:43):
Okay, Well, the thing about it is that, I mean
I'm an older fan, and uh, the gleeve was not
my first fandom experience, so like I started the one
before I was in the office, so I had like
we're a office fan fiction too, and like before and
all that. And I've been writing stories and can fiction
since I was nine years old, I mean like getting
(37:05):
on like onto like the internet and like in nineteen
ninety eight and nine.
Speaker 1 (37:09):
And like getting something.
Speaker 6 (37:14):
So so you know, I started watching the show and
about halfway through it, I was like, Okay, I want
to read more stories about these characters that.
Speaker 5 (37:24):
I love and I mean I love the show.
Speaker 6 (37:27):
I know there's ups and downs and everything, but like
you kind of just want more of it, and so
it's like okay, I so I started seaking it out
and I got on and I mean back then there
was something called the Glee Form. It's now defunct, unfortunately,
but started there there was live journals. I don't know
if you guys know a live journal, yes, and.
Speaker 5 (37:50):
Went to there and there was a really there are
all these little communities.
Speaker 6 (37:53):
For all the characters, for all the ships, for all
of everything, and you just would like find your community
and then you would just start wrecking people would wreck stuff.
So you'd find your favorite authors. And then it was like, well,
you know, I can do this too, So I started
writing my own and you know, you kind of find
your little place in the community in the world.
Speaker 2 (38:14):
Wow, that's amazing. So you had written and read for
several TV series for yes ideas, why do you think it?
Because Mike qu like, what was it about? Maybe halfway
through the series that's sort of like, is it the
series now is not going how I wanted to go,
And maybe.
Speaker 6 (38:36):
Like, let's put all the cards on the table. You know,
my favorite character's cart and then of course season four
happens and you're like, yeah, going on, like what are
the writers doing to all of these like just like
broke everybody up. So you're like, okay, how can you
like a some people want to fix it or be
like what is the mental? Like how did you get
(38:57):
from A to B? And so you just want to
start feeling in the blinks. And you know there's always
i mean season once, there's a ton of fan fiction,
and then in season four it just blew up to
everybody wanted to just fill in the blinks. And there's
all these characters and people are leaving and people are
coming in, and everybody's breaking up, and so it just
becomes this like mecca of creativity. Like me just start
(39:18):
wanting to like expand on and explore it and see
what the characters are thinking and you.
Speaker 5 (39:24):
Know, why did this character do this thing?
Speaker 6 (39:26):
And you just keep going And that's kind of what
got me into it, is like this the possibility of
creativity and seeing what I can do with the characters.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
I mean, you started writing when you were nine, Yeah,
what about it? Like were you always like interested in
writing at that point or was it more about the
world itself, and like creating, you know, the creativity aspect
of it, because you're still writing now. So I'm just
curious what's like, what was it when you started, and
then what's carried you through?
Speaker 8 (39:57):
Oh?
Speaker 6 (39:57):
Sure, I love storytelling. I write original book as well,
and I just love stories.
Speaker 5 (40:02):
I mean, you know.
Speaker 6 (40:04):
It's for me, like you know, I love books obviously,
I love reading books, but also I like having control
over the characters.
Speaker 5 (40:12):
I love being able to, like you know.
Speaker 6 (40:14):
Move them in the direction like dolls and direct and
put people in places that I want to put them
in and see them. And I just have always had
that kind of creative spirit and so you know, it
just translates into all of these other mediums and stuff
like that.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
So amazing.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
Wow, And what kind of original stories do you write?
Speaker 5 (40:34):
Oh? Everything?
Speaker 6 (40:36):
I mean I've been writing a fantasy series and it's
a reaction a little bit, like you read so much
and then you're like, oh, I want to see this
kind of thing in fiction. I want to see you know,
this kind of a character. I want to see you
know myself, or I want to see you know something
that I don't see in published fiction or even band fiction.
Speaker 5 (40:55):
You know, and that's what that's why I write.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
When you are, you know, in sort of these other communities.
Are those relationships now that like we learned today that
you have like a beta or somebody that can no.
Speaker 1 (41:10):
I was curious, we've learned about betas, and are you
a beta for other people? Do you have betas or
are you more of an individual writer?
Speaker 8 (41:19):
I do?
Speaker 6 (41:20):
I really have like some people in my life that
will read my writing. I'm terrible at it. There's two
different there're two different skill sets to be able to
like write something down and then able to like look
at somebody's work and go, okay, normally does this common
here or there?
Speaker 5 (41:35):
But also.
Speaker 6 (41:38):
You know, you know what, I don't think that this
thematic thing is going with the way you want it
and stuff like that, and you know, taking yourself out
of it. So I have I work with a woman
who I've known for years now and she's in the
fandom as well, and she is my beta, and we
work on all sorts of things, like you know, anytime
I write something, her name is in near mind because
she's always helping me with this.
Speaker 5 (41:59):
So it's again it's what.
Speaker 6 (42:00):
That community aspect, we just cultivate all of these relationships
with each other and share it and prompt each other
and like, hey, maybe you want to try writing this,
or I know you're really good at writing this kind
of story and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (42:13):
So it's also amazing that it's there. Are you know,
all these people who are writing, like and reading and
doing all these wonderfully creative things where I think it's
so easy. If you're not on that side of the
internet and you don't know about it, then people that
doesn't exist to them, right, and you get caught up
and like, oh, social media is bad, all this internet stuff.
(42:36):
But like, what you guys are doing is incentivizing each
other to be creative, express these things, find those places
and the mediums that you haven't seen and want to fill,
which I think is so beautiful, and like building these
friendships based off of that.
Speaker 6 (42:50):
It's and it's kind of a I mean, it's kind
of an interesting thing because yeah, we're doing it for
ourselves and each other. And every time I hear like,
you know, I'm going to share my stuff with Kevin
and Jenna, and I'm like, oh my gosh.
Speaker 5 (43:03):
Why it's not for them? You know that I don't
want you guys to read it or be involved.
Speaker 6 (43:07):
I think that's really cool that you guys want to
like understand and know more about it. But it's one
of those things where it's like, you know, this is
the stuff that we do and it isn't meant for
you guys. But I mean, I think it's amazing that
you guys are coming with an open mind and being like.
Speaker 5 (43:25):
What is this, what's going on? What I have about it?
I think that is so cool.
Speaker 1 (43:30):
Yeah, we're huge consumers and fans and of other things,
and so we're just it's hard for us to kind
of take ourselves out of it, especially with any fanfic, right,
it's very hard to relate or understand it. And so
but as fans of other shows, I could totally understand
how I want more, I wish that happened this character.
(43:53):
So I totally get it. But it's it's like we
were explaining to some other people, Like it's kind of
hard becase is in the fan fiction, Like even if
it's Tina and Lartie and not Jenna and Kevin, you
still imagine yourself. You put yourself in that position, right,
you're imagining yourself in.
Speaker 5 (44:10):
That writing it. I you know, I disassociate.
Speaker 6 (44:14):
I don't you know, if I'm writing Tina or already,
I still think, Okay, how are Kevin and.
Speaker 5 (44:20):
Jenna are going to hear?
Speaker 6 (44:21):
Like?
Speaker 5 (44:21):
How are they sound? In my head?
Speaker 1 (44:22):
Because it's you guys.
Speaker 5 (44:24):
I don't think of you guys. I know you guys
are separate people. I'm not right, But it's still the character.
Speaker 6 (44:29):
Like the things and choices acting choices that you do
actually reflect on the fan fiction that I write because
I want to incorporate what you're doing on screen, and
I can't imagine that's got to be a weird disassociative
thing that happens, because totally like that is you, essentially
or you guys put so much into it yourself and
(44:49):
creating these characters to see them go in a direction
that they may not be what your head canon is.
Speaker 5 (44:55):
That's got to be surreal.
Speaker 2 (44:57):
But I think what you said is important though, because
you're creating these stories regardless of how you yeah for yourselves,
for the community, So like, within that context, you all
know because you're all doing it, what goes into making
it and sort of the dissociation that you're taking from
people in real life sort of. And so I do
(45:18):
think you know. I think it's I understand why you're
sort of protective of that community of like Jen and
Kevin don't need to read these things. Yeah, you guys
support each other. It's a full, like you know, ecosystem
within itself, and I think that's like it the more
and more I hear about it. One, I'm jealous that
(45:39):
I haven't been writing fanfic for years. Two is that
it's like a really beautiful, like culture and like healthy
culture on the internet. Totally that is not always easy
to find.
Speaker 5 (45:52):
Totally it is well, I mean google it, you can.
You can find anything by Google.
Speaker 6 (45:56):
But I think it's you know, I I've been talking
to people about it, and there's so many reasons why
it's not just okay, I mean, yeah, part of it
can be Oh, I want to see my two favorite
hot characters make out.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Okay, that's a real thing.
Speaker 6 (46:10):
But you know, I've known people who've explored their own
sexualities through their writing. I know people who like read
stuff and they're like, you know what that this reflects
to me? And just like are in published form, fanfic
does the same thing. But it is already a built world,
like it takes out when you're writing something you know original.
(46:31):
You have to build the world here. You can take
characters that you're already familiar with and work with them
and then find exactly this is.
Speaker 5 (46:39):
The good stuff.
Speaker 6 (46:40):
But yeah, and it's on it well that is joking aside,
you know that it's on edited and not in a
like literary way, but like we're not constrained to network
notes or editors telling us that you can't publish this,
or that we can write whatever we want and it
can mat or anything.
Speaker 5 (46:57):
But it's open and limitless.
Speaker 1 (47:01):
Really good point. Good point.
Speaker 2 (47:03):
Do you still have shows that you watch currently that
you write fan fix for?
Speaker 5 (47:08):
I don't.
Speaker 6 (47:10):
I've been really really busy with my job and stuff
like that. So I mean, I do you still to
write some Glee stuff? But I like, there's a lot
of things I love, but I haven't really gotten kind
as much into it as like, you know, it's time consuming,
it is, you can you know, when I was in
my twenties, sure I had a lot more time.
Speaker 5 (47:29):
But now that I'm in my forties, I have to
like actually to my.
Speaker 4 (47:32):
Adult live, like real life you know, adult life responsibilities.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
Right now, I want to know all your like book recommendations,
I'm like, I gotta yeah, let me find books though
I have too many. Going to the bookstore is my
favorite thing in the world.
Speaker 6 (47:49):
Oh yeah, I mean I have eight bookcases. If you're
any recommendations, you guys, just let me know.
Speaker 5 (47:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (47:54):
Thanks you well, Pamela, thank you so much for sharing
all about fan fa and for you know, your contributions,
and it's just really nice to meet you and chat
with you.
Speaker 5 (48:05):
Oh it's been I can't believe. It's like a dream.
Thank you so much for that.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
Yeah, thank you, and thanks for what you do keep
the world reading important. It's great, it is.
Speaker 1 (48:17):
Thanks so much by Yeah, I'm coming out smarter, more
well just versed fan fiction, but I am. I appreciate it.
I'm so grateful to our friends Pamela, Bree Allison who
(48:39):
came and shared with us their experience with man fiction.
It's it's actually a really cool community and at the
end of the day, people are just looking for connection,
whether that's in their own world or with other people.
It's pretty cool.
Speaker 2 (48:56):
I think it's wonderful. I also love even with the
three of them, I'll have three different relationships to fan
fiction and what they like, what they write about their experiences,
and thank you so much to the three of you
for joining us today and for opening up and sharing
this part of yourselves with us and with all the listeners.
(49:17):
I hope you all enjoyed that. I know loved that.
Speaker 1 (49:20):
Very cool, very very cool.
Speaker 2 (49:23):
Do I go and look for things, Jenna.
Speaker 1 (49:28):
That's up to you, Kevin.
Speaker 2 (49:31):
I don't know. Maybe I could do a light skin.
Speaker 1 (49:33):
I don't know that there's a light scan. I didn't
know there's like chapters and not like actual like journeys.
I just thought it was kind of like live journal.
You don't mean in the beginning when it's like you
you post a one off kind of thing. But I
am just I'm so it's so intricate and complex and fun. Okay, Well,
(49:59):
good luck on your search, Kevin. And that's what you
really missed.
Speaker 2 (50:04):
See ya.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
Ho ho ho Mary Snicks Miss. We are here with
our fourth annual Snicks Miss Charity Drive.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
In honor of our friend Nira Vera and her favorite
charity that she worked with, Alexandria House, which is based
out of la We have put together something very special,
very meaningful this year, so keep an eye out in
the coming days check our socials.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
Make sure you don't miss anything. We think you're really
gonna like this, so stay tuned and Mary Snicks miss.
Speaker 2 (50:50):
Thanks for listening, and follow us on Instagram at and
that's what you really miss pod. Make sure to write
us a review and leave us five stars. See you
next time.
Host
Jenna Ushkowitz
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