December 9, 2022 • 19 mins
We’re back with another IRL #TakeAways. The in-between audio-only podcast where Angie and special guests reflect on episode responses, takeaways, and highlights.
On this week’s #TakeAways we speak to Candice Marie Benbow who wrote the article “Irv Gotti’s ‘Drink Champs’ rant about Ashanti reveals the dangers when women say no” BEFORE Ashanti appeared on The IRL Podcast and then wrote “Ashanti’s ‘IRL’ interview offers a master class in standing in your power, which she released AFTER Ashanti appeared on The IRL Podcast.
Tune in as Angie and Candice reflect on Ashanti’s appearance on the show and chat about the nuances of taking the high road, carefully creating space for men to be accountable, and the importance giving women the courage to be honest.
Follow Candice on twitter: @CandiceBenbow
Check out Candice’s articles here:
https://andscape.com/features/irv-gotti-ashanti-drink-champs/
https://andscape.com/features/ashanti-angie-martinez-interview/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Andree Martinez in Real Life Podcast. This episode and conversation
is powered by I Do Say Hello. Everybody's Edie Martinez.
Welcome to another episode of Takeaways. This Takeaways episode is
regarding the Ashanti interview. I know we are backed up
on these, so we're gonna drop a bunch of them
(00:21):
at one time, and then the goal is to um,
you know, in between each interview kind of take a
moment to reflect on anything that we want to add,
or maybe some of your comments or just our own
takeaways the things that you know stuck with us after
the interviews. So so so if you ever have a takeaway
about a about an interview or an episode, please leave
it in the comments because we do read them and
(00:43):
it does help inform, like these conversations, what really matters
to you and what you connect to. So we do
read and appreciate all comments and of course subscribe to
the Edge Martinez I r L podcast. UM and so
in a Shanty's Interview, one of the things that we
talked about in the episode was this article that was
written about or Goti's appearance on Drink Champs Um and
(01:03):
what happens when women say no. That is the name
of the article. Uh, and no, not just in a
big way, not like when people are women are forced
to do something, but like when women pull away from
a situation and the cussions of that, especially when it's
like a work relationship. Um, I just thought that was
I thought the article was really well written, and we
have the author on the phone. Hi, Candice, Hi, it's
(01:29):
so nice to meet you. First of all, thank you
so much for today. Thank you for having me. I'm
so excited. So I found can this benbow on Twitter
after some people had tagged her because I referenced the
article and they and they do it was your right away,
which is so dope. It was so funny because I
was watching it and I said, I think she's talking
about my article, and my friend was like, no, she
(01:51):
is talking about so it was. It actually was just
an honor. Like I told you, I'm on the on
the social is like you are are one of my idols.
So the fact that you had even read it had
just been an honor. But while I was listening to
Ashanti tell her story, it did remind me that so
(02:14):
many women go through these kinds of experiences that we
never know until they talk. Right, we would have never
known the levels of just share, manipulation and control that
she had experienced at his hands. Has she never said
a word. The interesting thing to me was, I remember
in your article you were saying that you didn't think
(02:34):
actually a shanty should say anything, because part of it
has she has always taken this this high road in
that this guy has completely at every turn, found a
way to really just disrespect her, and she has always
found this way to just like stay above it. But
what was really interesting was that I had to check
(02:55):
myself when I watched her with you, because the truth
is that we all get to tell our stories and
share our stories whenever we feel like it, if we choose,
And so I had to catch myself and say, yeah,
it's not a It's not always that women should take
this high road, as men get to say and do
(03:17):
whatever they want. That's part of the problem, right, is
that we feel like we can't speak or that we
shouldn't speak. But her ability to share her truth and
her honesty freed other women Like I was looking at
comments that she retweeted and comments that people shared as
she trend it that day, and it gave a lot
(03:37):
of women courage to be really honest about their own
experiences and say like, I didn't realize that what I
had experienced was manipulation and control until you said something.
And so that's the power that we That is the
beauty of our power when we step in it, and
we get to step into our power however we want to,
(03:58):
whether we want to talk, whether we want to not speak.
But she I had to. I had to check myself
when I when I watched it. I love that. I
love that. Listen, everybody's in a constant state of checking
ourselves all the time. That's the problem with this world
is everybody like gets canceled and you do something wrong
and nobody wants to hear from you, but nobody's got
it right at ever, Like your whole life should be continuous,
(04:22):
you know, self checking and self correcting. And I think
this is an opportunity, um for people to kind of
look at that. And you know, Earth too, I think
this is an opportunity, hopefully for Earth, because I don't know,
he may just get angry because the pieces of the
story that he disagrees with or deems untrue. Um. But
maybe underneath that or that is my hope anyway, that
(04:43):
there's space for self correcting and healing and maybe just
even if nothing else, understanding each other, Understanding how Ashanti
felt in those times when it was over, how she
feels now, how she feels to have had hear her
story in that manner, in that way, in that type
(05:03):
of language, and if not, you know, just somebody that
maybe somebody's in a relationship like that and needs to
you know, handle it better and to be mindful of
how a situation like that could end up or feel
to someone. Um And so for that, I'm really glad
that she allowed herself to be vulnerable and share her story.
(05:25):
I I really feel like it resonated with a lot
of people. I saw it in the comments, and I
think part of it to Angie is that we all
could we all could feel and know that she felt safe,
because there are a lot of other places and I
said it in my follow up piece that would have
jumped at the chance to interview her and would have
(05:47):
found ways to nuance behavior or justify or make her
feel like she had to to take his side or
understand his perspective, when the truth is is that, yes,
this is an opportunity for men, whether they're in the
music business, or whatever profession. This is an opportunity for
men to be self reflexive and say, what what does
(06:11):
it feel like for this kind of unbalanced power dynamic
that makes women feel as though they have to make
certain decisions not because they want to, but because they
have to make these decisions with their career in mind. Right,
what would it mean from me to move ethically in
(06:33):
a way that takes that pressure off of them? Because
I wouldn't want that pressure on me, and I don't
I don't think that men are often given enough room
or space opportunity to think through those things. Um, And
(06:55):
when we push them to do it, it's always particularly
in the moment that we're in, where where we see
so many movements and so many moments coming together to
hold people accountable in ways that they've never been. There's
kind of this knee jerk reaction to well what about me, Well,
you know, this kind of this kind of push well,
(07:17):
because nobody wants to get canceled, so they jump to
defend themselves, right, And what really matters is to say,
how do we stop and say, yeah, it probably wasn't
the best thing for me to say that she couldn't
record just because I was in my feelings that she's
in a relationship, right, And if you're not in a
(07:39):
music business, what does it mean when you when you
withhold opportunities, when you with whole promotions, ways of advancements,
just because women aren't interested or they make a different decision.
If men had those experiences, they would be livid. So
(07:59):
what do in me for you to sit back and say,
I need to be self reflective enough that the kind
of respect, the kind of integrity, the kind of character
that I want people to recognize me for I need
to create the environment and so the people around me
can flourish. That's so good because I I really appreciate
(08:20):
when people have a perspective that's just it's solid, and
it's like you have a clear perspective, but you're also
you know, sometimes it's like black and white with everybody,
and I see some shades of gray. And your in
your writing and your thoughts. And even when you talked
about drink Champs, how like you're like, I love drink Champs.
This is the same place that gives Patti LaBelle her flowers.
But you were disappointed in the way that they handled
(08:42):
the interview, right, and so, but you could instead of
just condemning them completely, you show the full picture of
why there's disappointment in this moment, not let's cancel drink chimps. Yeah,
and I think we have unfortunately too much of that.
My mom used to say that none of us are
the worst thing that we've ever done, and we're not
(09:03):
always the best thing that we've ever done. We live
in the middle of it. And so what does it
mean to say you had a terrible moment? Moments like
we need to hold you accountable. That accountability might be uncomfortable, right,
That accountability may come with some consequences and some implications
(09:23):
that you didn't expect. They can be tangible or not.
But if you allow yourselves to be held accountable and
and reconcile and and and find ways to redeem yourself
and the moment, there's no reason why can't be embraced.
How do we get how do we get better? How
do we course correct? How do we like lift people
(09:46):
up instead of like canceling them when these moments happen.
If we don't do that, if we don't offer a
place to check people when we don't like things, but
also continue the conversation and learn from it, and I
think Nori. Honestly, I know Nori for many years. I
think he's taken these moments to heart. I think he's
made some mistakes. I think he knows that. I think
he truly loves his platform. I think he truly loves
the culture. I think he wants to do well. I mean,
(10:07):
I hope he doesn't mind me sharing this, but after
my Ashanti interview, he sent me a lovely message about
how well I handled that interview and he couldn't have
done the same, and thank you for being such a
like a role model. Like he he wants to be better,
you know what I mean. He but he's Nori and
it's Drake Chaps and he's sitting there and he's drinking
and they're smoking and they're talking ship and this guy
is at a table and you know that he thinks
(10:29):
he's just free and comfortable. But you do have a
platform and people are listening and it does affect other people.
And I think he's starting to kind of understand how
to kind of navigate that. It's it's it's it's tough
for people, you know, but he does great things. I
absolutely adore Nori. I love Nori. I hated that episode IRV.
I actually love IRV, you know what I'm saying. I
just hate the way he handled this. I think there's
a learning opportunity for him here. I think it's a
(10:51):
learning opportunity, like I said, for everybody here. So I've
never I've never met Nori. I had in my journalism days.
I had an opportunity to interview her once, and he
was extremely gracious and kind and hilarious. So like so,
it was it was disappointing um to see to see
(11:13):
kind of this dissolution of that. But I have always felt,
even in these few moments, big major moments where Nori
has been held accountable, that he's trying to get it right.
I think I think what happens the way that we
course correct right is that we have to have more
(11:34):
spaces where those kinds of moments are possible, and then
we have to have more people who are willing to
be held in those kind of spaces. Right. So part
of it is what does it mean to be one
of the ones who who says, you know, like I did,
(11:56):
I love drink Champs. I hated this. I hated a
couple of other episodes that they didn't. But you know,
and I stood on that when people read it and
was like, how, like, no, we need to completely disavow
and I said no, like that, that doesn't that doesn't
allow for people to learn, right, Like that doesn't allow
(12:19):
for people to learn. And I know that in the
worst moments that I've ever had, I didn't. I don't.
I wouldn't have wanted those to be my final ones.
I wouldn't have wanted I and I and I and
they weren't because I had mentors, because I had colleagues
who were like, this is what you did wrong. Let's
(12:39):
shift right and just in a way that that you
can grow and you can learn from. Now, if I
didn't grow, and if I didn't learn, and I continue
to find myself in these same positions opportunity after opportunity,
then that's that's that's a completely different story. But I
do think that you give people the space to grow.
(13:02):
I will say this, I was really appreciative even in
your interview where Ashanti was like, no, I do believe
that that John did defend me. He could have done more. Yeah.
I love that they have the relationship where she could
be honest about that with him. Right, that like like
he ain't he who can't be swit cling all the time? Right?
(13:22):
But but the fact that she there was enough love
in their relationship with each other for her to say,
I'm gonna hold your fee to the fire and for
him to allow his feet to be held to the fire.
And even in that moment, she could still say that's
my brother and I love him. You know that that.
(13:42):
I think those moments, when we see those kind of moments,
it shows that it's possible for you to make a mistake.
It's possible for you to do something that everybody is
like would and it not It not be the end
of relationships, and it not the end of opportunities if
you're willing to acknowledge what you did wrong and find
(14:06):
a way to move forward. I mean, what a what
a better world it would be, Um if that were
how we handled all situations. What do you think about
how fat Joe showed up in this scenario? So, first
of all, I love him in a way, his his
the way that he has come into his own in
(14:26):
this space has just been beautiful and amazing to watch.
But and he's become he already was a statesman. But
I think that the way that he has developed into
a content creator really allows him to be this kind
of genuine respected statesman in hip hop that he deserves.
And so for him to be able to come out
(14:48):
in this moment and say uh like no, not okay,
and we surround her, I appreciated it. And I want
to see more of that in other space things and
with other women in hip hop who are not experiencing
kind of respect and respect period that they should be
(15:09):
getting from other colleagues and other artists. So when he
did that, he really modeled like, no, like we need
to stand against the disrespect and at some point enough
is enough. And so when he did that for me,
it was like, I really hope that other men see it,
other other folks and men and brothers in hip hop
see it and say we're gonna do the same when
(15:31):
we see other women who are being publicly disrespected and
and call it out and say it's not cool. Yeah.
I thought it was great. As his friend, I was like, Okay,
that's enough. I didn't want to see a war breakout
over this. I loved his sentiment and I love the
way he shows up friends. He shows up for what'sariety
shows up for the culture. And you know, Joe somebody
who's made mistakes and has learned, and he has needed
(15:54):
some grace to like of course correct the different points
of his life and his career. So you know, it's
it's I would say, us too, and and it leads
to probably a bigger piece that I think we're seeing
all over with the trends of us losing so many
artists right now. I think that what we see, what
we saw, I mean, what we saw in in Joe
(16:16):
and what we that moment that we got we're talking
about with with Ashanti and Jah is the benefits and
the beauty of being able to watch our artists age
and grow up right, because because with age and maturity
comes wisdom, right that that you're able to say I
did and said some dumb stuff when I was in
(16:39):
twenties and my thirties, and and probably like I I have,
I've grown, I've learned somethings learned. This is the wisdom.
I'm recognizing the moments and the times that we're in
and so this is the beauty of being able to
see them age and grow up right, and that like
I hate that so many of them are being robbed
(17:02):
of that opportunity, right, because we might not have gotten
that from a Fagio ten fifteen years ago, but we
got that now, and and it came with the level
of weight and wisdom that you only get as you,
as you age and you grow up. And so that
has been the beauty of seeing artists that that I
(17:24):
grew up listening to watching them become fathers and grandfathers.
I for sure, as a twenty year old, five year
old radio personality, couldn't have the conversations that we're having
on this podcast. You know, that comes from experience, That
comes from like a willingness to be kind of a
little more naked, a little more vulnerable, a little bo
and and seeing the you know, seeing the beauty and that,
(17:45):
seeing the importance of that, appreciating the honesty, and and
people who are willing to give it back to me.
I think, you know, you you only get that with experience,
with growth, with age, with all that type of stuff.
So I can't wait to see what you do. Not
some gonna read all your articles now, Canvas. I'm excited,
like I think that we're I think that we are
(18:06):
in a very interesting time, in a very interesting moment
where we if we allow ourselves to be vulnerable. I
think that's one of the reasons why we loved we
love this in real life, like the fact that that
they're You have created this space that in the podcast fear,
(18:28):
we don't really have a lot of right when people
know that they're not coming for these gotcha moments, right
that they're not they're not coming to to have to
to be on guard, but can really truly be themselves.
You've created that and we need more of it. So
I think that what you've done in this season, what
(18:49):
these conversations have done, I think it's created and shown
the need for more of this, and so I hope
that we see more of it. Thank you for that,
and yes you, when people like you show up and
and share a conversation like this, you're contributing to the
more of it. So thank you so much for today.
You're amazing. Likewise, thank you, and thank you to everybody
(19:11):
who tuned in. By the way, if you haven't seen
the Ashanti interview, you listen to this whole podcast without
actually seeing the interview is kind of cool, but you can.
It's on my YouTube page and you can subscribe right here.
But make sure you subscribe because you'll get updates for
not just the conversations and the interviews, but these takeaways
that run in between the interviews and that our audio only.
(19:32):
So thank you guys for listening, and we'll catch you
on the next one.
Andree Martinez in Real Life Podcast. This episode and conversation
is powered by I Do Say Hello. Everybody's Edie Martinez.
Welcome to another episode of Takeaways. This Takeaways episode is
regarding the Ashanti interview. I know we are backed up
on these, so we're gonna drop a bunch of them
(00:21):
at one time, and then the goal is to um,
you know, in between each interview kind of take a
moment to reflect on anything that we want to add,
or maybe some of your comments or just our own
takeaways the things that you know stuck with us after
the interviews. So so so if you ever have a takeaway
about a about an interview or an episode, please leave
it in the comments because we do read them and
(00:43):
it does help inform, like these conversations, what really matters
to you and what you connect to. So we do
read and appreciate all comments and of course subscribe to
the Edge Martinez I r L podcast. UM and so
in a Shanty's Interview, one of the things that we
talked about in the episode was this article that was
written about or Goti's appearance on Drink Champs Um and
(01:03):
what happens when women say no. That is the name
of the article. Uh, and no, not just in a
big way, not like when people are women are forced
to do something, but like when women pull away from
a situation and the cussions of that, especially when it's
like a work relationship. Um, I just thought that was
I thought the article was really well written, and we
have the author on the phone. Hi, Candice, Hi, it's
(01:29):
so nice to meet you. First of all, thank you
so much for today. Thank you for having me. I'm
so excited. So I found can this benbow on Twitter
after some people had tagged her because I referenced the
article and they and they do it was your right away,
which is so dope. It was so funny because I
was watching it and I said, I think she's talking
about my article, and my friend was like, no, she
(01:51):
is talking about so it was. It actually was just
an honor. Like I told you, I'm on the on
the social is like you are are one of my idols.
So the fact that you had even read it had
just been an honor. But while I was listening to
Ashanti tell her story, it did remind me that so
(02:14):
many women go through these kinds of experiences that we
never know until they talk. Right, we would have never
known the levels of just share, manipulation and control that
she had experienced at his hands. Has she never said
a word. The interesting thing to me was, I remember
in your article you were saying that you didn't think
(02:34):
actually a shanty should say anything, because part of it
has she has always taken this this high road in
that this guy has completely at every turn, found a
way to really just disrespect her, and she has always
found this way to just like stay above it. But
what was really interesting was that I had to check
(02:55):
myself when I watched her with you, because the truth
is that we all get to tell our stories and
share our stories whenever we feel like it, if we choose,
And so I had to catch myself and say, yeah,
it's not a It's not always that women should take
this high road, as men get to say and do
(03:17):
whatever they want. That's part of the problem, right, is
that we feel like we can't speak or that we
shouldn't speak. But her ability to share her truth and
her honesty freed other women Like I was looking at
comments that she retweeted and comments that people shared as
she trend it that day, and it gave a lot
(03:37):
of women courage to be really honest about their own
experiences and say like, I didn't realize that what I
had experienced was manipulation and control until you said something.
And so that's the power that we That is the
beauty of our power when we step in it, and
we get to step into our power however we want to,
(03:58):
whether we want to talk, whether we want to not speak.
But she I had to. I had to check myself
when I when I watched it. I love that. I
love that. Listen, everybody's in a constant state of checking
ourselves all the time. That's the problem with this world
is everybody like gets canceled and you do something wrong
and nobody wants to hear from you, but nobody's got
it right at ever, Like your whole life should be continuous,
(04:22):
you know, self checking and self correcting. And I think
this is an opportunity, um for people to kind of
look at that. And you know, Earth too, I think
this is an opportunity, hopefully for Earth, because I don't know,
he may just get angry because the pieces of the
story that he disagrees with or deems untrue. Um. But
maybe underneath that or that is my hope anyway, that
(04:43):
there's space for self correcting and healing and maybe just
even if nothing else, understanding each other, Understanding how Ashanti
felt in those times when it was over, how she
feels now, how she feels to have had hear her
story in that manner, in that way, in that type
(05:03):
of language, and if not, you know, just somebody that
maybe somebody's in a relationship like that and needs to
you know, handle it better and to be mindful of
how a situation like that could end up or feel
to someone. Um And so for that, I'm really glad
that she allowed herself to be vulnerable and share her story.
(05:25):
I I really feel like it resonated with a lot
of people. I saw it in the comments, and I
think part of it to Angie is that we all
could we all could feel and know that she felt safe,
because there are a lot of other places and I
said it in my follow up piece that would have
jumped at the chance to interview her and would have
(05:47):
found ways to nuance behavior or justify or make her
feel like she had to to take his side or
understand his perspective, when the truth is is that, yes,
this is an opportunity for men, whether they're in the
music business, or whatever profession. This is an opportunity for
men to be self reflexive and say, what what does
(06:11):
it feel like for this kind of unbalanced power dynamic
that makes women feel as though they have to make
certain decisions not because they want to, but because they
have to make these decisions with their career in mind. Right,
what would it mean from me to move ethically in
(06:33):
a way that takes that pressure off of them? Because
I wouldn't want that pressure on me, and I don't
I don't think that men are often given enough room
or space opportunity to think through those things. Um, And
(06:55):
when we push them to do it, it's always particularly
in the moment that we're in, where where we see
so many movements and so many moments coming together to
hold people accountable in ways that they've never been. There's
kind of this knee jerk reaction to well what about me, Well,
you know, this kind of this kind of push well,
(07:17):
because nobody wants to get canceled, so they jump to
defend themselves, right, And what really matters is to say,
how do we stop and say, yeah, it probably wasn't
the best thing for me to say that she couldn't
record just because I was in my feelings that she's
in a relationship, right, And if you're not in a
(07:39):
music business, what does it mean when you when you
withhold opportunities, when you with whole promotions, ways of advancements,
just because women aren't interested or they make a different decision.
If men had those experiences, they would be livid. So
(07:59):
what do in me for you to sit back and say,
I need to be self reflective enough that the kind
of respect, the kind of integrity, the kind of character
that I want people to recognize me for I need
to create the environment and so the people around me
can flourish. That's so good because I I really appreciate
(08:20):
when people have a perspective that's just it's solid, and
it's like you have a clear perspective, but you're also
you know, sometimes it's like black and white with everybody,
and I see some shades of gray. And your in
your writing and your thoughts. And even when you talked
about drink Champs, how like you're like, I love drink Champs.
This is the same place that gives Patti LaBelle her flowers.
But you were disappointed in the way that they handled
(08:42):
the interview, right, and so, but you could instead of
just condemning them completely, you show the full picture of
why there's disappointment in this moment, not let's cancel drink chimps. Yeah,
and I think we have unfortunately too much of that.
My mom used to say that none of us are
the worst thing that we've ever done, and we're not
(09:03):
always the best thing that we've ever done. We live
in the middle of it. And so what does it
mean to say you had a terrible moment? Moments like
we need to hold you accountable. That accountability might be uncomfortable, right,
That accountability may come with some consequences and some implications
(09:23):
that you didn't expect. They can be tangible or not.
But if you allow yourselves to be held accountable and
and reconcile and and and find ways to redeem yourself
and the moment, there's no reason why can't be embraced.
How do we get how do we get better? How
do we course correct? How do we like lift people
(09:46):
up instead of like canceling them when these moments happen.
If we don't do that, if we don't offer a
place to check people when we don't like things, but
also continue the conversation and learn from it, and I
think Nori. Honestly, I know Nori for many years. I
think he's taken these moments to heart. I think he's
made some mistakes. I think he knows that. I think
he truly loves his platform. I think he truly loves
the culture. I think he wants to do well. I mean,
(10:07):
I hope he doesn't mind me sharing this, but after
my Ashanti interview, he sent me a lovely message about
how well I handled that interview and he couldn't have
done the same, and thank you for being such a
like a role model. Like he he wants to be better,
you know what I mean. He but he's Nori and
it's Drake Chaps and he's sitting there and he's drinking
and they're smoking and they're talking ship and this guy
is at a table and you know that he thinks
(10:29):
he's just free and comfortable. But you do have a
platform and people are listening and it does affect other people.
And I think he's starting to kind of understand how
to kind of navigate that. It's it's it's it's tough
for people, you know, but he does great things. I
absolutely adore Nori. I love Nori. I hated that episode IRV.
I actually love IRV, you know what I'm saying. I
just hate the way he handled this. I think there's
a learning opportunity for him here. I think it's a
(10:51):
learning opportunity, like I said, for everybody here. So I've
never I've never met Nori. I had in my journalism days.
I had an opportunity to interview her once, and he
was extremely gracious and kind and hilarious. So like so,
it was it was disappointing um to see to see
(11:13):
kind of this dissolution of that. But I have always felt,
even in these few moments, big major moments where Nori
has been held accountable, that he's trying to get it right.
I think I think what happens the way that we
course correct right is that we have to have more
(11:34):
spaces where those kinds of moments are possible, and then
we have to have more people who are willing to
be held in those kind of spaces. Right. So part
of it is what does it mean to be one
of the ones who who says, you know, like I did,
(11:56):
I love drink Champs. I hated this. I hated a
couple of other episodes that they didn't. But you know,
and I stood on that when people read it and
was like, how, like, no, we need to completely disavow
and I said no, like that, that doesn't that doesn't
allow for people to learn, right, Like that doesn't allow
(12:19):
for people to learn. And I know that in the
worst moments that I've ever had, I didn't. I don't.
I wouldn't have wanted those to be my final ones.
I wouldn't have wanted I and I and I and
they weren't because I had mentors, because I had colleagues
who were like, this is what you did wrong. Let's
(12:39):
shift right and just in a way that that you
can grow and you can learn from. Now, if I
didn't grow, and if I didn't learn, and I continue
to find myself in these same positions opportunity after opportunity,
then that's that's that's a completely different story. But I
do think that you give people the space to grow.
(13:02):
I will say this, I was really appreciative even in
your interview where Ashanti was like, no, I do believe
that that John did defend me. He could have done more. Yeah.
I love that they have the relationship where she could
be honest about that with him. Right, that like like
he ain't he who can't be swit cling all the time? Right?
(13:22):
But but the fact that she there was enough love
in their relationship with each other for her to say,
I'm gonna hold your fee to the fire and for
him to allow his feet to be held to the fire.
And even in that moment, she could still say that's
my brother and I love him. You know that that.
(13:42):
I think those moments, when we see those kind of moments,
it shows that it's possible for you to make a mistake.
It's possible for you to do something that everybody is
like would and it not It not be the end
of relationships, and it not the end of opportunities if
you're willing to acknowledge what you did wrong and find
(14:06):
a way to move forward. I mean, what a what
a better world it would be, Um if that were
how we handled all situations. What do you think about
how fat Joe showed up in this scenario? So, first
of all, I love him in a way, his his
the way that he has come into his own in
(14:26):
this space has just been beautiful and amazing to watch.
But and he's become he already was a statesman. But
I think that the way that he has developed into
a content creator really allows him to be this kind
of genuine respected statesman in hip hop that he deserves.
And so for him to be able to come out
(14:48):
in this moment and say uh like no, not okay,
and we surround her, I appreciated it. And I want
to see more of that in other space things and
with other women in hip hop who are not experiencing
kind of respect and respect period that they should be
(15:09):
getting from other colleagues and other artists. So when he
did that, he really modeled like, no, like we need
to stand against the disrespect and at some point enough
is enough. And so when he did that for me,
it was like, I really hope that other men see it,
other other folks and men and brothers in hip hop
see it and say we're gonna do the same when
(15:31):
we see other women who are being publicly disrespected and
and call it out and say it's not cool. Yeah.
I thought it was great. As his friend, I was like, Okay,
that's enough. I didn't want to see a war breakout
over this. I loved his sentiment and I love the
way he shows up friends. He shows up for what'sariety
shows up for the culture. And you know, Joe somebody
who's made mistakes and has learned, and he has needed
(15:54):
some grace to like of course correct the different points
of his life and his career. So you know, it's
it's I would say, us too, and and it leads
to probably a bigger piece that I think we're seeing
all over with the trends of us losing so many
artists right now. I think that what we see, what
we saw, I mean, what we saw in in Joe
(16:16):
and what we that moment that we got we're talking
about with with Ashanti and Jah is the benefits and
the beauty of being able to watch our artists age
and grow up right, because because with age and maturity
comes wisdom, right that that you're able to say I
did and said some dumb stuff when I was in
(16:39):
twenties and my thirties, and and probably like I I have,
I've grown, I've learned somethings learned. This is the wisdom.
I'm recognizing the moments and the times that we're in
and so this is the beauty of being able to
see them age and grow up right, and that like
I hate that so many of them are being robbed
(17:02):
of that opportunity, right, because we might not have gotten
that from a Fagio ten fifteen years ago, but we
got that now, and and it came with the level
of weight and wisdom that you only get as you,
as you age and you grow up. And so that
has been the beauty of seeing artists that that I
(17:24):
grew up listening to watching them become fathers and grandfathers.
I for sure, as a twenty year old, five year
old radio personality, couldn't have the conversations that we're having
on this podcast. You know, that comes from experience, That
comes from like a willingness to be kind of a
little more naked, a little more vulnerable, a little bo
and and seeing the you know, seeing the beauty and that,
(17:45):
seeing the importance of that, appreciating the honesty, and and
people who are willing to give it back to me.
I think, you know, you you only get that with experience,
with growth, with age, with all that type of stuff.
So I can't wait to see what you do. Not
some gonna read all your articles now, Canvas. I'm excited,
like I think that we're I think that we are
(18:06):
in a very interesting time, in a very interesting moment
where we if we allow ourselves to be vulnerable. I
think that's one of the reasons why we loved we
love this in real life, like the fact that that
they're You have created this space that in the podcast fear,
(18:28):
we don't really have a lot of right when people
know that they're not coming for these gotcha moments, right
that they're not they're not coming to to have to
to be on guard, but can really truly be themselves.
You've created that and we need more of it. So
I think that what you've done in this season, what
(18:49):
these conversations have done, I think it's created and shown
the need for more of this, and so I hope
that we see more of it. Thank you for that,
and yes you, when people like you show up and
and share a conversation like this, you're contributing to the
more of it. So thank you so much for today.
You're amazing. Likewise, thank you, and thank you to everybody
(19:11):
who tuned in. By the way, if you haven't seen
the Ashanti interview, you listen to this whole podcast without
actually seeing the interview is kind of cool, but you can.
It's on my YouTube page and you can subscribe right here.
But make sure you subscribe because you'll get updates for
not just the conversations and the interviews, but these takeaways
that run in between the interviews and that our audio only.
(19:32):
So thank you guys for listening, and we'll catch you
on the next one.
Host
Angie Martinez
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