February 24, 2025 • 49 mins
The incredible Cynthia Nixon joins Kristin this week for a conversation filled with memories, lots of laughs and unexpected revelations. Cynthia Nixon almost wasn’t Miranda. She was moments from not being a part of this cast. And, the secret to Miranda’s short red hair that surprises even Kristin.
Plus, friendship, the future, and of course fashion.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know, are
you a Charlotte? You guys, Cynthia Nixon's here? Is he
on the podcast? Are you a Charlotte? Which I think
the answer is not, I think not really. Thank you
Cynthia for being here, Thank you for having it. It's
(00:21):
beyond exciting, it is. It is so okay what we
want to do. I mean there's a lot, right, there's
like kind of endless amounts of things to talk about,
but what I want to do with you because I
have you here and for me, once I started rewatching,
which you remember, I never rewatched like I watched at
the time, but I find it like uncomfortable. But at
this point, looking back, it's not so uncomfortable for me.
(00:44):
It's more like archaeological, right, you know, like what is
going on? You know? So I really once we started
the podcast, I really felt like I need to have
us on to talk about the beginnings, right, because all
of us had different experiences and all of us were
coming from different places, you know, and that's what's kind
(01:06):
of so interesting about it. I think in a way,
like we were all so different in terms of the
careers we were having and then we all came together
for this and magic happened, and here we are almost
thirty years later, which you know, crazy, insane to think crazy.
So tell us a little bit about I mean, should
(01:27):
I intro a little like, you know, you were at
this incredible Broadway actress. I mean I had seen Cynthia,
not knowing Cynthia in when when uh, I really bly,
I saw the other one, the real thing, the real thing,
which I love so much. She was in two Broadway
plays across the street from each other at the same time. Okay,
she'd done Juliet and Shakespeare in the Park. You'd been
(01:50):
in Amadaeus. I mean just you'd been in.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
The I've with Robert Altman and Sarah Jessica and I
of course really knew each other, which was amazing because
we were child actors in.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
New York, right, and you're in that. We did a
bunch of things to get Vanessa red Grave.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
We played sisters in a TV movie with Vanessa Redgrave
and Jack Albertson.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Yes, unbelievable. So when did you hear about Sex and City?
When did you get the script? What did you think? So?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Okay, so again, as I think you've talked a tiny
bit about so when the when the show first started,
the premise was that we were going to really as
a launch, you know, come from her column, and the
people she was writing about would be kind of like
the first episode starts with the main characters like, we're
(02:40):
not anywhere in sight, right, it's the woman she's talking about, right,
this horrible thing happened to So when I first read
the script, they asked me to read for Carrie, as
I think they asked you to read for Carrie.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
I did not know this.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yes, they asked me to read for Carrie, right, And
then I did and they were like, yeah, not so much.
But I did not tend to be very proactive about
these things, but for me, because I was like thirty one,
I want to say, and I had been acting literally
for twenty years at that point and a lot of
(03:16):
success and a lot of but I was you know,
when I first started acting, I was a child and
I was in school, so I was very like, I
only work in New York, right, So this show in
New York was like unheard us.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Unheard us. Right.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
We had Cosby, I think we had Kate and Ally
for a while, we had a we had law and order.
We used to have the equalizer like we had, but
you know, but it was slim. I guess, yes, and
not all those shows were on at the same time.
Those were like the things that we had. So I
did call my manager and I guess she was my
(03:53):
agent at the time, Emily. Emily, and I said, Okay,
they don't want me for Carrie. No one's really surprised here,
But there's like seven women on that show. Couldn't I
get one of them? Because it didn't seem like there
were four. It seemed true. It seemed because with these
other characters at least in the pilot were like central
(04:14):
and then that we had all those testimony from women
on the street, and it seemed like a larger group
of women. But even had there been four, maybe I
wouldn't have been so optimistic. But I was like, can't, like,
I can get one of those? I get one of those. Yeah,
And so they said they'd like me to come back
and read from Miranda.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
And is this just casting directors at this point, like
Billy Hopkins carry Barton.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
I think I don't remember, but I would assume so,
But I don't, like, you didn't know Darren, I didn't.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Know Darren at all.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
So I went in and at some point maybe it
was the first time I went in for Miranda after
so it was like the second audition maybe, and my
Emily said to me gently but clearly, she said, maybe
put on little lipstick, maybe you.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Could comb your hair. I was like, I'll try, I'm
gonna try. I love it, I love it, I love it.
So then they really liked me. I mean it's like
an endless saga. I mean, I think you said yours
was like a matter of we. I mean my mind
was months and months and months, and it wasn't like
I was endlessly auditioning. I think I auditioned. They really
(05:32):
liked me, and then I think they moved.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Me on to like testing, right, So I tested right
here in New York, here in New York, and I
think I was one of the very early people that tested.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Did they know that Sirica was potentially carry yet? I
don't remember.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
So I auditioned and uh that you know, nothing happened,
and like they my contract lapsed.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
So I was basically right. I mean it went on
for months wow, And Emily would call and say what's
going on, and they would say, we haven't found anyone
we like better yet. Oh gosh, that's painful.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
And I think and I can't. Oh, it's so terrible
that I can't remember this at this point. But I
had auditioned. I had never you know, gone out to
LA to test for things, but I did, maybe the
previous year or something. And I tested for a lot
of things and I didn't get. I tested for like
the Best Friend on Ally McBeal, and I tested for
(06:37):
a thing like a thing where I was a nun
like in the name of the Father. And I tested
for the Fargo Woman in Fargo, which was then made
many years later.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Wow, And I didn't get any of them.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
And I remember Becky and Baker, who actually ended up
playing my sister briefly in the show, said that means
you're very close if you keep almost getting these, you know,
but you don't get like, don't think about like I
didn't get it.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
I didn't get it, Like you're close. No, she's right,
that's so good.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Anyway, months and months and months went by, and it
was like, you know, and every day Emily would call,
not every day, but she would call, and they would say,
we still haven't found anyone.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Were like Matka. So then there was a pilot presentation.
Do you know what that? Yes?
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Right, So a pilot presentation is not like a real pilot,
it's like they do it live. It's very like are
most right? And they had some pilot presentation they were
doing that shot in La There were some okay people
in it, I can't remember now, and they had a
part for me, and it was an okay part. It
(07:43):
wasn't a great part, but they were like, we just
want her and if she'll just come and test, we'll
just go right into production, like there's no one else's auditioning.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
So I wasn't really that interested, but I was like,
it's money, and I actually did need some money at
that points.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Sure, sure, so. But it was pass over a week, okay,
and I was thro my boyfriend Danny and I the
father of my first two kids. We were throwing a
sador for his family.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I've been to, right, and so it was like a
big you know, and we've been planning it for a
while and so I think passover was like on a
Wednesday that year, and I was like, but I don't
want to miss the satyr, so I so they let
me fly out the idea of so going to fly
out Friday morning or Thursday night. I was going to
(08:33):
test and we were going to go right into the
first read through whatever.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Wow, And I was like adamant that I want to
do this thing.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
So then it was like passover and Emily, my manager,
spent my agent. Then I called them, I think, oh oh,
like every hour, oh what, and she would give them account.
She would be like, you're gonna lose because I think
the next morning maybe I got to the flight WITHO
maybe Thursday, and she said, you're gonna lose her in
(09:03):
twenty two hours. Wow, you're gonna lose her in seventeen hours.
You're gonna lose her in ten hours.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Oh my god? Right, because as soon as I.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Get on that planet, right And at one point she
actually apparently broke down and cried on the phone with them,
like what are you doing? This is the perfect person
for the part.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
You love her. You've looked for months, you haven't found
anybody better, Come on, yeah, pull the trigger, Emily. I know.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
And at like and like literally literally during the Satyr,
at like nine o'clock at night, my phone rings and
Emily's like, I got it.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
I never heard this story right, and it was and
it was, but it was literally from the time I tested.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
I mean it was months. Wow, it was months. Wow.
I didn't know this. It's amazing. And so in your
in your like gut or your heart or whatever, did
you feel connected like yes, I want to do this,
like this is amazing or did you just be like.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Ah, I felt like it felt like the Holy Grail,
it really. I mean, we didn't know what would happen
with the show, but it was so interesting and it
was so clever and it was all actually about something, right.
I felt the same way, right, yeah, but then there
was like all this sex in It was like weird,
know right, right, but but it was so different. It
(10:24):
was so different. It was so different but also weirdly
for me, for people who this is the main thing
they know me from. Again, I had been acting for
twenty years at this point, and I had never played
anything remotely like like I was a person I for
(10:46):
a lot of my early life, I had long blonde hair,
and I played a lot of you know, very easygoing, shy,
wallflowery kind of insecure people, powered children, waves waves for days,
you know, and so to play this woman, and and
(11:07):
and I had been nominated for a Tony a couple
of years earlier, when I was doing a play called Indiscretions,
which was Jude Laws New York debut, and I was
wearing a wig and we were ran for many many months,
and I got nominated for a Tony. And the guy
who did my hair said, why don't we cut all
your hair off and.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Dye it red?
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Just as like a really a thing. And it was
fine because I wore a wig, so it didn't matter
what my hair was like. So then so I was blonde,
Kim was blonde, Sarah was blonde. You were the only
non blonde. So they came to me and they said,
we got too many blonde would you We've seen these
photos of you from a few years back with this
red hair.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Would you dye your hair red? So yeah, But so
that's how that happened. So in every way.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
It was such a it was like such a traparture,
such a departure, and you love that, and I was great,
It was great, but it felt like, you know, a
character that had like not a lot to do with.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Well, And I mean, in some ways that's true, and
and in some ways it's not nice.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
People would ask me, you know, are you how are
you like Mary? And I would always say we both
feel confident about our brains.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
But that's kind of.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Where it ends, because like I was, I was in
a long term relationship, I had a child, I was
incredibly domestic. I was I'm very domestic, like all the
things that Miranda has no patients for it, right, those.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Were garbage exactly right, right, right, So so when you
took it on, like, remember, I mean you have these
kind of aggressive power suits and whatnot. In the beginning,
you know, like what did you think?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
I mean, I thought, I have these really good jokes,
which is great, and I have a really strong character.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Right, She's like I understood who she.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Was clearly, and I was really you know, poor Pat Field,
who you know, does the clothes. I was really concerned
with trying to look like one of those women would
really look, which was not.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Yeah, we really tortured.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
It was not Pat's favorite, but we reached it, you know,
did and it's you know, I mean, do you remember
how in the very beginning, because we would have all
those coffee shop scenes, right, and we tried so hard
to make them real, and yes, constantly not just eating,
but like reaching for things like right and.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Looking away, like.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Just trying to have as much. So I was really
kind of focused on that, like have as much sort
of real behavior, and the clothes and the sort of
like the Miranda armor of like the like the jewelry
was very like silver and spiky and like it.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Was like armor. Definitely, definitely, definitely. I mean, yeah, I
think that one I watched myself too. I mean, I
think a lot of things, but one of the things
I do think, because I had come from Melrose, you
had to like hold still because they were going to
do this super close up right and just stare at
the other person. And I'm always like, I'm you barely
see my face for like the first couple episodes or whatever,
because I'm just working so hard to be present, be
(14:17):
really you know, follow your lead and follow Sara Jiska
and Kim, and you know, Kim's doing her own thing,
and you know, it's like super interesting to look back on.
And I do remember thinking, you know, like this is different,
you know, like that's just his own animal, right, And
you know I knew Sarah. Sarah and I knew each
other quite well.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
We'd work together a bunch of times, and we were
always auditioning for the same parts and stuff when we
were kids. And Kim I knew a little bit. I'd
seen her in a few things. But also I think
we had auditioned for a production of Missus Julie that
we were both. I think she got it and ended
up doing it.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
And I feel like she came to see me in
something and I met her backstay. So I had some sense.
I don't know this, I had some sense of Kim,
and I didn't know who you were, but I looked
at the way you spelled your first name with.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
An eye, which is unusual.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Two eyes, yes, and I basically I decided you were
Kristin Scott Thomas.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Wow, well, thank you. I was like, it must be
christ Kristen, that must be Christens. It must have been
really disappointed. I didn't really know who Christin Scott Thomas
was at that time. British. Yeah, yes, oh my god,
that's adorable that you thought you were going to do
the pilot of Sex and City with Kristin Scott Thomas.
(15:35):
I mean, I wish I was Kristin Scott Thomas. You know,
I don't wish you were. You don't know.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
I glad, thank you baby.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
So do you remember the read through? No, me neither.
I remember that. There's a thing that I remember about you,
and I guess it was the way through. I just
remembered some stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yeah, I remember that we did it at the market, okay.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Chelsea Chelsea Market. Wow.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
And I remember Sarah came in and she had just
gotten married. She had just gotten married, and I and
others congratulated her because she had just gotten married, and
I just they must have been scouting around there, which
is why we did it at Chelsea Market.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Oh, I don't even know that. I remember.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
I remember Chelsea Market, and I remember Sarah coming in
having just gotten married.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
That's nice. This is what I remember. You had like
a notebook with your script inning, because you know, you're
very professional, and on the front of the notebook was
a little baby picture of Sam and I was like, oh,
is that your baby? You were like yeah, And I
was like, aren't you worried to you know, not be
at work, you know, not to not to be home
And you were like now, and I was like, oh,
I was just very impressed, very impressed. You're like it'll
(16:59):
be fine. I was like, oh my gosh, amazing, but
I didn't remember the bigger picture. Sarah Winter remembers the
bigger picture of the read through super interesting. Yeah, yeah,
because apparently there was a Kennedy there. I can't remember
his first name. He was going to play that part,
which part her guy, Sarah Winter's guy in the beginning
who goes her? And then I guess something happened he
(17:19):
got cold feet? Who knows? Who knows? Lawford? Lawford was
his name? Peter, Yes, yes, I know, super fascinating. Don't
remember that. I remember that, Okay, okay, okay, I had
not remembered. She remembers Darren coming in and me talking
to Darren because I knew him from LA. I didn't
really know the rest of you, you know, I had
(17:40):
just seen all of you. Harry Barry name. I keep saying,
oh my, oh my god, where is Barry? I mean, yeah,
he was a big part of it all. Yeah. Yeah,
he was the Melfie. We didn't have Melfie. I didn't
have Melfie. Oh and do we have Jane Rabb yet?
I think we know not. In the pilot, we had
the Miss three woman who gave me the contract to
(18:01):
sign where I would have been a recurring who you
know doesn't have a fond place in my memory. I'm
sure it's not her fault, but and I don't know
her name. But did you know about that? Did I
tell you about that at the time? You told me
about it? I think you did tell me about it
at the time. I think you might be the only
(18:22):
one because I really tried to keep his secret. Michael
Patrick didn't even know right.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I think you did amazing that you told me right away,
but I think sometime during the first season you told me.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Because it really it really like Michael was Michael. Michael
talked really interestingly about his beginnings and how he didn't
know how to write Charlotte. He was like, Wow, that
one I don't know, you know, which I understand because
in the book, she's not really very like she did
blushed out. Yeah, she's not flushed. She doesn't really make
a lot of sense. She's just a little different. You don't, like,
(18:52):
she takes drugs and goes rollerskating like it's weird. You know,
You're like, who is that one? You know? And I remember,
you know, really feel like I've got to figure her out,
and you know, there was some stress about like they
wanted me to have short hair. I wanted to have
long hair. Pat was trying to put me in these clothes.
I was like, what are those clothes? You know, which
was I think not uncommon for us. I mean, Sara
(19:14):
Jessica was in sync with Pap, but the rest of
us were like, what it's happening. So that was a
process obviously, but also I think Charlotte had to be developed,
and that was you know, luckily happened over time, but
definitely was not true in the beginning. And for me inside,
I had this sense of, oh, you know, someone doesn't
know if I'm important here right right? I didn't know
(19:35):
who that was, right, you know, if it was like HBO,
because we didn't really know Strauss at that point. We
didn't know Carolyn. No, we didn't know anybody right right.
We were just like you knew Darren. I knew Darren,
which was great, but also Darren was, you know, trying
to create this thing like do you remember one time
he came down and he was like, you guys have
to be funnier and we were like, really too, kind
of from that and then he was like and then
(19:56):
the next week i'd have seen in Sir Jessica's house.
I think. So when libs like something in the first
episode and we had to add lib what we felt
insecure about, right. I remember if I said my neck yes,
and I said my thighs yes. It was the only
time there ever Ye said her nose right, And I
remember what Kim said, she doesn't because Samantha's not insecure
(20:17):
about anything. Yes, But it was like our only time
they ever asked us to add lib right. That was
the end of that right right, right, right, right right.
But it was very sweet because they didn't want to
write anything that would upset us, which was nice.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
But I remember they wouldn't want to say what you
must feel terrible about your life, and you'd be like,
that's my best thing.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Totally, totally, totally. But then I also remember a different
week when he come down. Darren would come down and
he'd be like, you know, everyone's got to be sexier,
You've got to be sexier. And I would be like me,
like what like how like this totally like just low cut.
I don't know, Yeah, it was bizarre, but I just
feel I remember just not knowing, you know, what our
(21:01):
aisle was. You know what our goal was kind of
or who we were. But then when I look back
on it, which having not watched it for you know,
eight million years, we're very good. We are very good.
I mean it's kind of amazing, like they have married pigs.
Everything is there. Yeah, you know, like we're mean in
terms of our characters, you mean or not not not
(21:23):
they're not fully fleshed out, but like the the energy,
the GISTs. You know, we're at that scene with the
Pepper Mail Do you remember that scene? I do? It
was long with with what's his name? Sun Rene Obershon
was Sun, Yes, Remi obersion was yes, Yes, good memories
and impressive. You told me you didn't remember anything. That's
not true, you know in that peppermil had come in
(21:44):
the right time. That was like our first real true
coffee shop. Really, I mean, there's there's one in the pilot,
but we're at the Chinese restaurant right right, right, right
right right, very brief.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Oh, but so only at the Chinese restaurant. Yeah, there
was that Where was that? Remember there was that diner?
Speaker 5 (22:01):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (22:01):
On Long Island City? And when what episode is that?
I mean I feel like Skipper goes there with Carrie.
So someone goes there with Gary and I'm like, there's
a diner. There's a diner that we use. That's a
real diner Stanford, remember the place. They would like put
us in the van and drive us over there. And
it was kind of not the cleanest I don't want
to say anything, right.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
We were like, oh, there's very interesting tile on the walls.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Very I mean ugly would be a word. Ugly would
be a word.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
That didn't last long. It didn't last long at all.
But the other thing I think when I look back
on these early episodes is to me, New York looks
so different. It looks like it's the eighties, you know
what I mean. Like it's like and the cars and
like in this particular in the episode twenty something Guys
or Value of the twenty something Guys, you know, we
go to these bars right like downstairs and they're just
(22:51):
like nothing. They're just like a dark room right in
the basement. It's so eighties. Yeah, so interesting to me.
I don't really remember it, Like I don't know where
we are. I have no idea, no memory of that, right,
And Charlotte doesn't really get to go very often, like
the first, you guys are in chaos that can't remember chaos.
(23:11):
I don't know if it was a real place or not.
I don't think probably in the pilot. Yeah, but you're there.
That's when Skipper comes and you push him up up
against the wall. It's so good, Right, that's a pilot.
I think it's excellent, excellent, But I'm not there. I'm
with that dude up on the stairs of the met right, yeah, right,
just thinking I'm on like the perfect date. And then
he goes, oh, has sex with Samantha. I know, poor
(23:34):
Charlotte's mess. So wait, let's get back to you. Let's
get back to you. So we start the pilot. You
you did feel like it was the holy Grail. So
you had a sense that it was amazing, well for
me because I was at a point like I had
a kid and like an uh like I just bought
an apartment, and like I needed to earn some money. Yeah,
(23:55):
like and and so much so that after literally twenty
years of saying I will not audition for anything that
shoots in la you know, like a long term or
even really sure you know, yeah, I was like, get
me a TV show, and it was like, here's a
TV show here. Wow, that's so great.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Yeah, you know, so I did feel like it was
the holy Grail.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yeah yeah. And when we actually did the pilot, did
you feel like wow, wow, wow or did you feel like,
oh my god. I always thought it was all great.
I just thought it was all great.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
You know, I thought, how am I gonna be this like,
you know, sexy person that's like going on all these
like never dated, I had like long term relationship.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
I never remember you saying this, Yeah right. I also
remember you saying I never had like girlfriends where we
would like go around and kind of like be powerful like.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
This or flirty flirty right, my my my girlfriends. Right,
we're not ever out on the prowl, and we never were.
We're like my friends from h school. We like hang
out with the boys in our high school.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
You know what I mean, as I do. It was
not like we'd go and meet strangers and go to
bed with them. I know, I know, I know. It's
super interesting to look at the beginning episodes, like there's
a you know, like a it's very sex positive, which
is wonderful before we ever called it that, but also
like an openness like a you know, Everyone's not everyone.
(25:28):
I guess Charlotte's not, but like Carrie especially like a
value of the twins something guys, you know, I mean,
it's it's very interesting.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Well, so remember there was all this stuff. I don't
know if you've spoken about this yet, but there was
all this stuff.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
There was this backlash.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Where people were sort of some people were like horrified, right,
and said, these aren't women, right, women don't act like this,
women don't talk like this, women don't have this kind
of lack of inhibition and lack of sentimental romantic no necessity.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Right, these are gay men disguised. If you remember this,
it was great and trouble right, it was very annoying.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
And I also remember, and I don't remember what season
it was, where we had a reporter like, we're all
four of us were talking to this person on time
and the reporter said, do you think this is a
feminist show? And all four of us basically almost took
that person's head off. We were like, well, of course
(26:31):
it's a feminist show. What's wrong with you? Yes, we're
all feminists. It's a feminist show. What would it be
if it wasn't a feminist show? Because we're wearing lipstick
and high heels. It's not a feminist show. What's wrong
with You?
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Absolutely, But I do think that that also reminds me
of the different times, you know, and the fact that
we were not there was no blueprint for us, you know,
and and that in some ways is I think this
kind of magic about us coming together and HBO allowing
us to find ourselves and then also being able to
(27:07):
do the movies and then also being able to do
and just like that, I mean, like there is no blueprint,
there is nothing else.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
But you know what, it's really funny for me because,
as I said, I started acting when I was like
eleven twelve, and one of the very first things that
I did was this movie All Little Darlings, which is
starring Tatum O'Neill and Christy McNicol. And then there are
six of us who aren't those two people.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
So they're eight.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Young women amazing, and we're all like, we're all supposed
to be like mid teens, I would say, and some
of us like me or twelve as I'm tall, and
other people are like eighteen, but they're playing fifteen whatever.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
We're all playing like yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
And it's about two girls who don't like each other
at summer camp and somebody starts a bet to see
which one of them can lose their virginity first. Wow,
And all the rest of us line up with one
or the other and there's lots of betting on it,
and who camp.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Right gets involved.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
And this was a very popular, successful movie that it's like,
very dear to a lot of people's hearts. But when
it came out, I remember one review that started, now
here's a disgusting idea for a movie, right, Critics were horrified,
And this was like literally twenty years later, and it
(28:24):
was I was like, it was deja vue for me.
It was like, here are women who are talking about
sex and the possibilities of sex with their female friends
and then going out and assertively pursuing it. And audiences
are like, wow, cool and critics are.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Like, ew, so crazy. It's but I.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Mean I think that that's I mean, you know, it's
a show that women and gay men have always particularly
you know, embraced. But we would hear again and again
and again. Was first on was like the men want
to watch it too, and the girlfriends get them to
watch it, or the wives get them to watch it,
(29:10):
and then they're fascinated and they love it and they're entertained.
But also then it sparks all these conversations about this
semi taboo stuff that maybe if you're dating somebody you
wouldn't talk about it because you'd be shy or something,
but it's happening.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
In the episode. So it's a perfect right, right, like
the up the butt stuff in the right. Of course,
everyone likes to say all the things that embarrass me.
But yes, very good example. And also such a fun
fun memory, so great, such a great memory and such
a funny I mean, now that I look back on it,
(29:47):
which I didn't really compute this or whatever. That's really
my first storyline, like where it's like a beginning, middle,
and end right, like Carrie's like, you know, and then
Charlotte has a new boyfriend and we see him and
I'm like, did I tell you it wants to buy
a painting, and you guys are like, oh, you know,
And then we do that scene. No, then we do
the seat then a caller right, and she's like, oh, Charlotte,
I got to run out of the house, right, And
(30:07):
I'm like she's like, I'll be right there. And then
we're in that big cab. Do you remember it was
like a nineteen seventies cab and Alice in the director
and Maurice who's French, the DP who I could never
say her name. Right, they're in the front seat. Do
you remember this with the handhad They're in the front
seat like on the floor. That's how big the cab
was that they could do that, and they would like
pop their heads up and give us direction as we're
(30:29):
driving around, then pop back down. And then we added
you guys. And I remember being so fun but also
being so even just like mortified to say the words
out loud. Yeah that I kept messing it up, like
I can't remember that say the words because the first
time I say it is just sir, Jessica with me, right,
it's just carry with me, And I had so not
said it in rehearsal. Do you remember how we used
(30:50):
to run our lines all the time, which I told
Michael Michaels like I didn't know this. I was like, wait,
we were so scared that we weren't gonna talk fast
enough for you.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Yeah, I mean at least I was right. So we
remember we were in the make Taylor just running, running, running, running, running.
Do you remember this? Did they have us do that?
Did they have us watch some like his Gal Friday
or something? I think you did, And I don't think
anyone told us to. I know, I think that was
your creative you know, thought process, right. And also I
was I told you I was going to tell you this.
(31:17):
I do think this is when you started saying to
me quietly like, not my medium, not my medium, because
we'd be in some complex thing where they'd say like,
and then you find the lens, and then you move
forward and you find the lens.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
And you just be like, not my media, right, And
I'd be like, it is getting the mark, finding the lens, continuity.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
These have never been my strong suits. Well they are now.
Well that's very kind, it's true. But number two, I mean,
first of all, I see those early episodes. You're like
spot On, I mean, you're amazing, So you know some
of it, I think it's just your own mind. But
I also think also it is obviously a very different experience.
Doing a show is a very different experience than even
(32:01):
just a film. You know, Well, it's right, It's it's
not like one long arc.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
It's like every week or every two weeks or whatever
it was, we got a new script and new things happened.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Definitely, new things happened. Also, we film a lot quicker,
especially back then. I remember we would film like so
many scenes in a day, and it was that was
partly why it was so complicated, right because we couldn't
like stop, like now now it and just like that
we do we take some time, you know, to you know,
do the singles and whatever. But back then we were
like on the go. Do you remember they used to
(32:32):
like wheel those huge lights down the street, you know,
from one location to the other. Like it was kind
of amazing to think about, like gorilla filmmaking a little bit.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Right, you know, in such crazy hours, like crazy hour,
never less than fifteen hours, often seventeen eighteen hours until
the same came up.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Yeah, I talked about it a little bit like back
then we felt like we we shouldn't say that. Do
you remember, like it was so long, right, like because
I remember how we shouldn't complain, Yeah, we should we
shouldn't complain, Yeah, because remember how people just come up
(33:07):
and be like it is so much fun. Like once
it started to kind of you know, take off, and
we'd be like yes, like as we're like, you know, fainting,
you know, as we're just so tired, right, But we
couldn't really say that. We thought our feet, yes, and
our feet. I mean, you know, I told them the story.
I had the bigger sized shoes for the weekend. My
tennis shoes were bigger so that I could like let
my little swollen feet rest. Yeah, because remember how we
(33:30):
would film till the sun rose and then start at
five am on Monday. You had this tiny little window
and you had a whole life. It was I think
eight months when we did the pilot. Exactly how did
you do that? Well? I don't know. I mean the pilot.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
What I think of is when we were getting ready,
when we've been picked up and we were getting ready
to do the second episode, right, the first episode of
our first season.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Do you remember this? They so we shot in Silver Cup,
which is in Long Island City, and all of us
were living in Manhattan, right, I mean, Kristen had an
apartment in Manhattan, and they decided that we were going
to take the subway to work.
Speaker 5 (34:13):
Oh my god, do you remember that. It was like,
we're not going to pick you all up. You have
to get here on your own. And so I think
I was coming for fittings or something, coming from.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Hitting where the where we were in the Where Island
city at the time.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Maybe well, this is before Google Maps, right, it is
a confusing, windy place. And so and my kid at
that point is I think like it's teen months or something.
I'm not sure how old he is. And my father
has just died. He has died of like weeks before.
(34:58):
And my father was living in Mexico. So I don't
speak Spanish. I've gone down there. My boyfriend was sick.
I went down there by myself with my kid, not
speaking Spanish, to try and deal with his not only
his death. I mean he was cremated, so that wasn't
a big but you know, his belongings to his finance,
everything right, And so I came back. I'm coming for
(35:19):
this fitting where they've Shelley, remember Shelley. Shelley told me
that I had to take the subway or whatever. And
so I take my kid strapped to me on the
subway with all the diaper bags and whatnot, and I
get off the train in Long Island City and I
can't find it, and I'm walking around the streets and
(35:39):
I call Shelley and I'm like, Shelley, I have my
you know, fifteen month old. My father has just died.
I'm wandering around. Can someone please just pick me up?
So I think they gave up on the subway idea.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
I think that must have been somewhere close to me
trying to also do the same thing with not a child,
but just my really challenge, you're not. I mean I
used to live here. It never you know, it's just
a challenge that I have right in wherever I am.
(36:16):
It's a challenge. And there was no phones to be doing.
There was no Google Maps, and there was no maps nothing.
And I had never in my life even heard of
Long Island City. I was like, I don't understand, like
just where are we? I just don't understand.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
It's like a place where you assumed a lot of
like snuff films, anything could happen. What's happening behind those
doors exactly?
Speaker 1 (36:39):
So I had gone tried to go to my fitting
sometime probably like the same day or next day or whatever.
It was raining, and I'm just wandering, you know, like
a little lost wet kitten, you know, like help me,
help me, anyone and then crying, you know, like finally,
like I think, Shelley, also, I don't even know if
(37:04):
I'm in longand City, like you know what I'm saying,
like all of it. And then she was like, yes,
Cynthia had a problem too. I was like, you know,
maybe you guys should send him. Remember the sixteen seater
that we did end up spending a lot of time anyway,
I do remember that. And I was like, if Cynthia
had a problem, I don't feel so bad, you know.
(37:26):
But then remember how we both lived on the Upper
West Side. Yes, and they would pictu us that blocks
from the blocks from each other, thank god, and they
would pick us up together, which is really fun. And
what Cynthia very kindly would run lines with me because
remember those times when I had those big speeches, yes,
like like very didactic, like soap boxy, like I'm gonna
get married and I'm going to follow this book and
(37:47):
I'm so hard and you know, we I talked to
Michael a little bit about like the word perfect. You know,
we had to be perfect. We still have to be perfect.
And comedy is very precise, you know, so I get that,
but it's sometimes challenging and Cynthia God bless her heart,
because I live by myself, right, so like you can
only somewhat do so much work in your own head,
(38:10):
you know, to a certain extent, and then what would
happen is We'd get there and I'd get nervous and
I'd like just freeze up. So on the way down
town or to Silver Cup or whatever, Cynthia Wood run
lines with me so sweetly. Really saved myself so much.
That was fun, and like we were like kids. That's
the other thing that cracks me up when we watch,
(38:32):
Like do you I don't know how you think about this,
but like we look like little children. Well, yes, we're
very beautiful, but also so I have still you know,
baby fat no, well I mean from my baby right,
But also I have literally pimple on my chin like simples.
(38:55):
Take a look, my guy still have acne. Hysterical. But
the thing that's so funny is that I remember thinking,
because I was living in LA before we filmed, right,
and I remember thinking, like, you know, I got to
get a job because like we don't have a lot
of time here. You know, this is back when like
when you were forty, which I don't think you probably
felt because you were a very theater and theater, thank god,
goes on forever, but like you had this sense of
(39:16):
like time is ticking, you've got to like make the
most of it because you're not going to last long.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
Well, I mean, that's the thing is like now we
look like such babies, but at the time that was
part of the point of the show that we weren't kids.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
I know, that's what's so funny to me. But we were.
We were like mature women.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
We had these careers and we were at a point
when you know, Charlotte or other people in previous or
you know, we're like, why aren't you marriedly getting married?
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Were you going to marry? Absolutely? Actually, and in the
value of the twenty sething guys, when they cut to
the guys on the basketball court, which is one of
the most enjoyable, I know, it's finally like for me,
that's when the other people talking clicks in right in
a great way. All these guys and they're not so
horrible like in the every man is just like horrible, horrible,
(40:06):
So finally some of them are kind of likable and
one of them, you know, I think it starts the
basketball confessionals and he says, you know the great thing
about women in their thirties is they're just so grateful.
I'm like, wow, where we're gonna go, the journey we're
gonna go on? People? Oh my god? Who would have
(40:28):
ever thought? Yeah? Right? Yeah? And back then, I remember
also feeling because when I was auditioning, I would always
just lie about my age, Like whatever age the character was,
you'd pick like a year older or a you're younger,
and that's how old you'd say you were. At least
that's what I did. Huh. That's what all my friends
did in La. Wow. So for me, I was like, oh,
thank god, we're playing women are our thirties. I can
stop lying. You know. It's so exciting, right, Like it
(40:51):
was such a weight off my mind. And look at us,
I'm like, we're like little tiny babies. No, little tiny babies.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
But I think I think the you know, how much
sex we're having and going out and meeting people and
going out on dates and just picking people up, right,
there's all that which is different, and it's that it's
not it's not. I mean, I don't there is really
nothing to compare us to. I mean, what are you
going comparis to Charlie's Angels. I mean right, right, No,
(41:20):
there is a stretch man.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Right, I mean they don't talk to each other, right,
I mean then they also don't date. I mean they
I guess they don't think they shut around, right, But
I think that's the thing, is like we're having all
this sex with all these different men that were actively pursuing,
and we're talking.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
To each other about it, right, It's like we're together.
It's like Bechdel to the MH degree.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Yes, And that's what was so so special and amazing
about it. Now, let's talk about themes. Part of the
reason I wanted to do Are You a Charlotte was
because it seems like, I mean, first of all, you
know Netflix, We're on Netflix now, which is like we
could never have imagined these things, right, and all these
younger peop people are finding us, which is so exciting
and really kind of amazing and wonderful. And the themes
(42:05):
are still so resonant today. Yes, totally, and it's kind
of just a testament to our writing, you know, and
to just the I mean, it was kind of just
bravery on I guess. Well, but have you talked about
the thing about the one degree of separation thing about well,
you know that they had this rule in the writer's room.
(42:27):
Oh yeah, that.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
You know, fantastical things happen on our show Crazy Zany,
like wow, cover your mouth, you're so shocked kind of things, right,
But that they had a rule in the writer's room
that you could only make a plot line around something
that had literally happened to you or someone you knew.
It can be like my friend's dentist's cast. I heard
(42:53):
this I had one time. Right, it had to be
you experienced it, or someone that you could get on
the phone and ask them about it in detail.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
It happened to them.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
So, I mean, I do think that that's one of
the reasons it really endures, is like it's the stuff
around it, even though it's it's real, even though it's like, oh.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
My god, can you believe what happened on the show
last night?
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Right, but it's it's it's real, and people really, you know,
put them the writers really put themselves in it and
located the good and bad and funny and whatever say
things that were happening to right.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Right right, So true. But when you think back on
the themes, like what do you think of in terms
of like Miranda's themes or you know, what stands out
to you. What do you think of as your favorite
themes or your favorite relationships or things like that. Hmmm,
I know it's hard, so so so hmmm.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
I mean I think maybe this is not what you're
talking about, but I mean, like the overarching theme is,
obviously we're not sitting by the phone waiting for a
man to call in and ask us to marry him.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
Right, It's like we possibly Charlotte is well, possibly Charlotte,
but then she but she's aggressively pursuing it, you know,
Susa pursuing it, and she and there's part of her
that that has this marriage goal in mind, but she
also kind of wants to experiment. And she's certainly more
experimental than you realize. And sure she really is. And
(44:24):
I remember, of course we did the thing.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
They had a thing in a magazine about who had
had the most It was the book.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
It was a book. It was a tell in the
back of the book. But it wasn't it. It had
all the sure, wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Even before there was a magazine article. You're resting how
many sex partners each of them they had and that Charlotte, surprisingly,
I know one had been with Marmon.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
But I also think that is what I love about
when we think back, And I kind of was aware
of this at the time because like, for instance, you
weren't Miranda, right, so you playing Miranda, you brought different
things to it. You brought kind of some friction to it.
Sara Jessica is not Carrie, you know, and she didn't
want to show her body all the time, you know,
(45:08):
So it created kind of a friction. Like all of
us being together and being such different people created kind
of an interesting friction. Charlotte wanted to get married, but
also being the one who literally has the most you know,
hookups or whatever. It's interesting, right, Like, it wasn't as
much as people think that we were archetypes and whatnot,
which I get right, right, It really was more complex
(45:30):
than that, and certainly, like the underlying thing as opposed
to what we were showing, I think created a depth
and a like a frision kind of right.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
So I feel like in terms of Miranda, obviously she's
very she's very smart, she's very quippy, she's very cynical,
she's very driven, she's all about her work, and getting ahead,
right and competing with men on an equal footing. I'm
(46:03):
interested in having sex, but she really has thought not
at all about the idea of marriage or long term monogamy,
much less children or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Which is so great how it unfolds, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
And so so the fun thing about her has always
been that she has this really tough, armored exterior, but
that she has all this fragility side right, And so
I feel like, for me, the turning point from Miranda was,
(46:42):
I believe it's Jenny Bick's first episode. That's one of
our writers, and when she first came on board, she
wrote the episode where Miranda buys her first apartment.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
That's a good one, right, yeah, And it's like, as
a single woman, what does that mean? Is that intimidating
to a man when you when you already own and
you're not waiting for him to buy something with him
that you choose together, right, And that Miranda is really
determined and excited, But then it brings up all of
these demons for her about what does this mean buying
(47:17):
this apartment? Does this mean I'll always be alone?
Speaker 2 (47:20):
And she and I'll die alone and like no one
will know and the cat will eat my face. Right,
it's so good, it's so great, and she starts to
have these panic attacks, which.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Seem very Unmeranda.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
And you know, and in the same way that Michael
Patrick talks about with Charlotte, Charlotte is a beautiful, intelligent, warm,
career person who wants to get married. And so Michael
Patrick says, at a certain point, even though it's about
single women, we got a let her get married because
(47:53):
we just can't believe we lost.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
It's incredulous, right, she she want to get married. She's
gonna get married, right, and then it's not going to
work out, that's the point. So and the same with Miranda.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
He was like, how much how brittle and bitter can
we make her? It's like, finally she is gonna just break,
so we have to Finally.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
I guess it's season two. I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
You know, they bring in Steep, right, somebody who is
like the antidote like to all of the who is
happy to be the beta to her alpha, right, and
who is so into her that she doesn't doubt him.
And it's just he's like he's sexy, but he's also
(48:46):
just very devoted and it's a. It's a it's a
place where she can land. That's a wonderful place to be,
and it's not threatening. He's not competing with her for supremacy,
and she doesn't feel like you might walk away and
break her heart.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
Right. Oh, and what a great character. Great character, great character.
I know, I know, all right. So I could talk
to Cynthia for many, many hours, as you can tell.
So we're going to make this into two episodes. You guys,
please tune in to the next one.
Hi, I'm Kristin Davis, and I want to know, are
you a Charlotte? You guys, Cynthia Nixon's here? Is he
on the podcast? Are you a Charlotte? Which I think
the answer is not, I think not really. Thank you
Cynthia for being here, Thank you for having it. It's
(00:21):
beyond exciting, it is. It is so okay what we
want to do. I mean there's a lot, right, there's
like kind of endless amounts of things to talk about,
but what I want to do with you because I
have you here and for me, once I started rewatching,
which you remember, I never rewatched like I watched at
the time, but I find it like uncomfortable. But at
this point, looking back, it's not so uncomfortable for me.
(00:44):
It's more like archaeological, right, you know, like what is
going on? You know? So I really once we started
the podcast, I really felt like I need to have
us on to talk about the beginnings, right, because all
of us had different experiences and all of us were
coming from different places, you know, and that's what's kind
(01:06):
of so interesting about it. I think in a way,
like we were all so different in terms of the
careers we were having and then we all came together
for this and magic happened, and here we are almost
thirty years later, which you know, crazy, insane to think crazy.
So tell us a little bit about I mean, should
(01:27):
I intro a little like, you know, you were at
this incredible Broadway actress. I mean I had seen Cynthia,
not knowing Cynthia in when when uh, I really bly,
I saw the other one, the real thing, the real thing,
which I love so much. She was in two Broadway
plays across the street from each other at the same time. Okay,
she'd done Juliet and Shakespeare in the Park. You'd been
(01:50):
in Amadaeus. I mean just you'd been in.
Speaker 2 (01:53):
The I've with Robert Altman and Sarah Jessica and I
of course really knew each other, which was amazing because
we were child actors in.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
New York, right, and you're in that. We did a
bunch of things to get Vanessa red Grave.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
We played sisters in a TV movie with Vanessa Redgrave
and Jack Albertson.
Speaker 1 (02:11):
Yes, unbelievable. So when did you hear about Sex and City?
When did you get the script? What did you think? So?
Speaker 2 (02:19):
Okay, so again, as I think you've talked a tiny
bit about so when the when the show first started,
the premise was that we were going to really as
a launch, you know, come from her column, and the
people she was writing about would be kind of like
the first episode starts with the main characters like, we're
(02:40):
not anywhere in sight, right, it's the woman she's talking about, right,
this horrible thing happened to So when I first read
the script, they asked me to read for Carrie, as
I think they asked you to read for Carrie.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
I did not know this.
Speaker 2 (02:54):
Yes, they asked me to read for Carrie, right, And
then I did and they were like, yeah, not so much.
But I did not tend to be very proactive about
these things, but for me, because I was like thirty one,
I want to say, and I had been acting literally
for twenty years at that point and a lot of
(03:16):
success and a lot of but I was you know,
when I first started acting, I was a child and
I was in school, so I was very like, I
only work in New York, right, So this show in
New York was like unheard us.
Speaker 1 (03:31):
Unheard us. Right.
Speaker 2 (03:32):
We had Cosby, I think we had Kate and Ally
for a while, we had a we had law and order.
We used to have the equalizer like we had, but
you know, but it was slim. I guess, yes, and
not all those shows were on at the same time.
Those were like the things that we had. So I
did call my manager and I guess she was my
(03:53):
agent at the time, Emily. Emily, and I said, Okay,
they don't want me for Carrie. No one's really surprised here,
But there's like seven women on that show. Couldn't I
get one of them? Because it didn't seem like there
were four. It seemed true. It seemed because with these
other characters at least in the pilot were like central
(04:14):
and then that we had all those testimony from women
on the street, and it seemed like a larger group
of women. But even had there been four, maybe I
wouldn't have been so optimistic. But I was like, can't, like,
I can get one of those? I get one of those. Yeah,
And so they said they'd like me to come back
and read from Miranda.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
And is this just casting directors at this point, like
Billy Hopkins carry Barton.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
I think I don't remember, but I would assume so,
But I don't, like, you didn't know Darren, I didn't.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Know Darren at all.
Speaker 2 (04:46):
So I went in and at some point maybe it
was the first time I went in for Miranda after
so it was like the second audition maybe, and my
Emily said to me gently but clearly, she said, maybe
put on little lipstick, maybe you.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
Could comb your hair. I was like, I'll try, I'm
gonna try. I love it, I love it, I love it.
So then they really liked me. I mean it's like
an endless saga. I mean, I think you said yours
was like a matter of we. I mean my mind
was months and months and months, and it wasn't like
I was endlessly auditioning. I think I auditioned. They really
(05:32):
liked me, and then I think they moved.
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Me on to like testing, right, So I tested right
here in New York, here in New York, and I
think I was one of the very early people that tested.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Did they know that Sirica was potentially carry yet? I
don't remember.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
So I auditioned and uh that you know, nothing happened,
and like they my contract lapsed.
Speaker 1 (06:00):
So I was basically right. I mean it went on
for months wow, And Emily would call and say what's
going on, and they would say, we haven't found anyone
we like better yet. Oh gosh, that's painful.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
And I think and I can't. Oh, it's so terrible
that I can't remember this at this point. But I
had auditioned. I had never you know, gone out to
LA to test for things, but I did, maybe the
previous year or something. And I tested for a lot
of things and I didn't get. I tested for like
the Best Friend on Ally McBeal, and I tested for
(06:37):
a thing like a thing where I was a nun
like in the name of the Father. And I tested
for the Fargo Woman in Fargo, which was then made
many years later.
Speaker 1 (06:48):
Wow, And I didn't get any of them.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
And I remember Becky and Baker, who actually ended up
playing my sister briefly in the show, said that means
you're very close if you keep almost getting these, you know,
but you don't get like, don't think about like I
didn't get it.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
I didn't get it, Like you're close. No, she's right,
that's so good.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
Anyway, months and months and months went by, and it
was like, you know, and every day Emily would call,
not every day, but she would call, and they would say,
we still haven't found anyone.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
Were like Matka. So then there was a pilot presentation.
Do you know what that? Yes?
Speaker 2 (07:22):
Right, So a pilot presentation is not like a real pilot,
it's like they do it live. It's very like are
most right? And they had some pilot presentation they were
doing that shot in La There were some okay people
in it, I can't remember now, and they had a
part for me, and it was an okay part. It
(07:43):
wasn't a great part, but they were like, we just
want her and if she'll just come and test, we'll
just go right into production, like there's no one else's auditioning.
Speaker 1 (07:53):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
So I wasn't really that interested, but I was like,
it's money, and I actually did need some money at
that points.
Speaker 1 (08:00):
Sure, sure, so. But it was pass over a week, okay,
and I was thro my boyfriend Danny and I the
father of my first two kids. We were throwing a
sador for his family.
Speaker 2 (08:12):
I've been to, right, and so it was like a
big you know, and we've been planning it for a
while and so I think passover was like on a
Wednesday that year, and I was like, but I don't
want to miss the satyr, so I so they let
me fly out the idea of so going to fly
out Friday morning or Thursday night. I was going to
(08:33):
test and we were going to go right into the
first read through whatever.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Wow, And I was like adamant that I want to
do this thing.
Speaker 2 (08:40):
So then it was like passover and Emily, my manager,
spent my agent. Then I called them, I think, oh oh,
like every hour, oh what, and she would give them account.
She would be like, you're gonna lose because I think
the next morning maybe I got to the flight WITHO
maybe Thursday, and she said, you're gonna lose her in
(09:03):
twenty two hours. Wow, you're gonna lose her in seventeen hours.
You're gonna lose her in ten hours.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
Oh my god? Right, because as soon as I.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Get on that planet, right And at one point she
actually apparently broke down and cried on the phone with them,
like what are you doing? This is the perfect person
for the part.
Speaker 1 (09:24):
You love her. You've looked for months, you haven't found
anybody better, Come on, yeah, pull the trigger, Emily. I know.
Speaker 2 (09:32):
And at like and like literally literally during the Satyr,
at like nine o'clock at night, my phone rings and
Emily's like, I got it.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
That's amazing.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
I never heard this story right, and it was and
it was, but it was literally from the time I tested.
Speaker 1 (09:49):
I mean it was months. Wow, it was months. Wow.
I didn't know this. It's amazing. And so in your
in your like gut or your heart or whatever, did
you feel connected like yes, I want to do this,
like this is amazing or did you just be like.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
Ah, I felt like it felt like the Holy Grail,
it really. I mean, we didn't know what would happen
with the show, but it was so interesting and it
was so clever and it was all actually about something, right.
I felt the same way, right, yeah, but then there
was like all this sex in It was like weird,
know right, right, but but it was so different. It
(10:24):
was so different. It was so different but also weirdly
for me, for people who this is the main thing
they know me from. Again, I had been acting for
twenty years at this point, and I had never played
anything remotely like like I was a person I for
(10:46):
a lot of my early life, I had long blonde hair,
and I played a lot of you know, very easygoing, shy,
wallflowery kind of insecure people, powered children, waves waves for days,
you know, and so to play this woman, and and
(11:07):
and I had been nominated for a Tony a couple
of years earlier, when I was doing a play called Indiscretions,
which was Jude Laws New York debut, and I was
wearing a wig and we were ran for many many months,
and I got nominated for a Tony. And the guy
who did my hair said, why don't we cut all
your hair off and.
Speaker 1 (11:28):
Dye it red?
Speaker 2 (11:29):
Just as like a really a thing. And it was
fine because I wore a wig, so it didn't matter
what my hair was like. So then so I was blonde,
Kim was blonde, Sarah was blonde. You were the only
non blonde. So they came to me and they said,
we got too many blonde would you We've seen these
photos of you from a few years back with this
red hair.
Speaker 1 (11:48):
Would you dye your hair red? So yeah, But so
that's how that happened. So in every way.
Speaker 3 (11:55):
It was such a it was like such a traparture,
such a departure, and you love that, and I was great,
It was great, but it felt like, you know, a
character that had like not a lot to do with.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
Well, And I mean, in some ways that's true, and
and in some ways it's not nice.
Speaker 2 (12:11):
People would ask me, you know, are you how are
you like Mary? And I would always say we both
feel confident about our brains.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
But that's kind of.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Where it ends, because like I was, I was in
a long term relationship, I had a child, I was
incredibly domestic. I was I'm very domestic, like all the
things that Miranda has no patients for it, right, those.
Speaker 1 (12:38):
Were garbage exactly right, right, right, So so when you
took it on, like, remember, I mean you have these
kind of aggressive power suits and whatnot. In the beginning,
you know, like what did you think?
Speaker 2 (12:50):
I mean, I thought, I have these really good jokes,
which is great, and I have a really strong character.
Speaker 1 (12:58):
Right, She's like I understood who she.
Speaker 2 (13:01):
Was clearly, and I was really you know, poor Pat Field,
who you know, does the clothes. I was really concerned
with trying to look like one of those women would
really look, which was not.
Speaker 1 (13:14):
Yeah, we really tortured.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
It was not Pat's favorite, but we reached it, you know,
did and it's you know, I mean, do you remember
how in the very beginning, because we would have all
those coffee shop scenes, right, and we tried so hard
to make them real, and yes, constantly not just eating,
but like reaching for things like right and.
Speaker 1 (13:36):
Looking away, like.
Speaker 2 (13:40):
Just trying to have as much. So I was really
kind of focused on that, like have as much sort
of real behavior, and the clothes and the sort of
like the Miranda armor of like the like the jewelry
was very like silver and spiky and like it.
Speaker 1 (13:56):
Was like armor. Definitely, definitely, definitely. I mean, yeah, I
think that one I watched myself too. I mean, I
think a lot of things, but one of the things
I do think, because I had come from Melrose, you
had to like hold still because they were going to
do this super close up right and just stare at
the other person. And I'm always like, I'm you barely
see my face for like the first couple episodes or whatever,
because I'm just working so hard to be present, be
(14:17):
really you know, follow your lead and follow Sara Jiska
and Kim, and you know, Kim's doing her own thing,
and you know, it's like super interesting to look back on.
And I do remember thinking, you know, like this is different,
you know, like that's just his own animal, right, And
you know I knew Sarah. Sarah and I knew each
other quite well.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
We'd work together a bunch of times, and we were
always auditioning for the same parts and stuff when we
were kids. And Kim I knew a little bit. I'd
seen her in a few things. But also I think
we had auditioned for a production of Missus Julie that
we were both. I think she got it and ended
up doing it.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (14:53):
And I feel like she came to see me in
something and I met her backstay. So I had some sense.
I don't know this, I had some sense of Kim,
and I didn't know who you were, but I looked
at the way you spelled your first name with.
Speaker 1 (15:06):
An eye, which is unusual.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Two eyes, yes, and I basically I decided you were
Kristin Scott Thomas.
Speaker 1 (15:13):
Wow, well, thank you. I was like, it must be
christ Kristen, that must be Christens. It must have been
really disappointed. I didn't really know who Christin Scott Thomas
was at that time. British. Yeah, yes, oh my god,
that's adorable that you thought you were going to do
the pilot of Sex and City with Kristin Scott Thomas.
(15:35):
I mean, I wish I was Kristin Scott Thomas. You know,
I don't wish you were. You don't know.
Speaker 4 (15:40):
I glad, thank you baby.
Speaker 1 (15:52):
So do you remember the read through? No, me neither.
I remember that. There's a thing that I remember about you,
and I guess it was the way through. I just
remembered some stuff.
Speaker 2 (16:04):
Yeah, I remember that we did it at the market, okay.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Chelsea Chelsea Market. Wow.
Speaker 2 (16:13):
And I remember Sarah came in and she had just
gotten married. She had just gotten married, and I and
others congratulated her because she had just gotten married, and
I just they must have been scouting around there, which
is why we did it at Chelsea Market.
Speaker 1 (16:28):
Oh, I don't even know that. I remember.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
I remember Chelsea Market, and I remember Sarah coming in
having just gotten married.
Speaker 1 (16:36):
That's nice. This is what I remember. You had like
a notebook with your script inning, because you know, you're
very professional, and on the front of the notebook was
a little baby picture of Sam and I was like, oh,
is that your baby? You were like yeah, And I
was like, aren't you worried to you know, not be
at work, you know, not to not to be home
And you were like now, and I was like, oh,
I was just very impressed, very impressed. You're like it'll
(16:59):
be fine. I was like, oh my gosh, amazing, but
I didn't remember the bigger picture. Sarah Winter remembers the
bigger picture of the read through super interesting. Yeah, yeah,
because apparently there was a Kennedy there. I can't remember
his first name. He was going to play that part,
which part her guy, Sarah Winter's guy in the beginning
who goes her? And then I guess something happened he
(17:19):
got cold feet? Who knows? Who knows? Lawford? Lawford was
his name? Peter, Yes, yes, I know, super fascinating. Don't
remember that. I remember that, Okay, okay, okay, I had
not remembered. She remembers Darren coming in and me talking
to Darren because I knew him from LA. I didn't
really know the rest of you, you know, I had
(17:40):
just seen all of you. Harry Barry name. I keep saying,
oh my, oh my god, where is Barry? I mean, yeah,
he was a big part of it all. Yeah. Yeah,
he was the Melfie. We didn't have Melfie. I didn't
have Melfie. Oh and do we have Jane Rabb yet?
I think we know not. In the pilot, we had
the Miss three woman who gave me the contract to
(18:01):
sign where I would have been a recurring who you
know doesn't have a fond place in my memory. I'm
sure it's not her fault, but and I don't know
her name. But did you know about that? Did I
tell you about that at the time? You told me
about it? I think you did tell me about it
at the time. I think you might be the only
(18:22):
one because I really tried to keep his secret. Michael
Patrick didn't even know right.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
I think you did amazing that you told me right away,
but I think sometime during the first season you told me.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
Because it really it really like Michael was Michael. Michael
talked really interestingly about his beginnings and how he didn't
know how to write Charlotte. He was like, Wow, that
one I don't know, you know, which I understand because
in the book, she's not really very like she did
blushed out. Yeah, she's not flushed. She doesn't really make
a lot of sense. She's just a little different. You don't, like,
(18:52):
she takes drugs and goes rollerskating like it's weird. You know,
You're like, who is that one? You know? And I remember,
you know, really feel like I've got to figure her out,
and you know, there was some stress about like they
wanted me to have short hair. I wanted to have
long hair. Pat was trying to put me in these clothes.
I was like, what are those clothes? You know, which
was I think not uncommon for us. I mean, Sara
(19:14):
Jessica was in sync with Pap, but the rest of
us were like, what it's happening. So that was a
process obviously, but also I think Charlotte had to be developed,
and that was you know, luckily happened over time, but
definitely was not true in the beginning. And for me inside,
I had this sense of, oh, you know, someone doesn't
know if I'm important here right right? I didn't know
(19:35):
who that was, right, you know, if it was like HBO,
because we didn't really know Strauss at that point. We
didn't know Carolyn. No, we didn't know anybody right right.
We were just like you knew Darren. I knew Darren,
which was great, but also Darren was, you know, trying
to create this thing like do you remember one time
he came down and he was like, you guys have
to be funnier and we were like, really too, kind
of from that and then he was like and then
(19:56):
the next week i'd have seen in Sir Jessica's house.
I think. So when libs like something in the first
episode and we had to add lib what we felt
insecure about, right. I remember if I said my neck yes,
and I said my thighs yes. It was the only
time there ever Ye said her nose right, And I
remember what Kim said, she doesn't because Samantha's not insecure
(20:17):
about anything. Yes, But it was like our only time
they ever asked us to add lib right. That was
the end of that right right, right, right, right right.
But it was very sweet because they didn't want to
write anything that would upset us, which was nice.
Speaker 2 (20:30):
But I remember they wouldn't want to say what you
must feel terrible about your life, and you'd be like,
that's my best thing.
Speaker 1 (20:37):
Totally, totally, totally. But then I also remember a different
week when he come down. Darren would come down and
he'd be like, you know, everyone's got to be sexier,
You've got to be sexier. And I would be like me,
like what like how like this totally like just low cut.
I don't know, Yeah, it was bizarre, but I just
feel I remember just not knowing, you know, what our
(21:01):
aisle was. You know what our goal was kind of
or who we were. But then when I look back
on it, which having not watched it for you know,
eight million years, we're very good. We are very good.
I mean it's kind of amazing, like they have married pigs.
Everything is there. Yeah, you know, like we're mean in
terms of our characters, you mean or not not not
(21:23):
they're not fully fleshed out, but like the the energy,
the GISTs. You know, we're at that scene with the
Pepper Mail Do you remember that scene? I do? It
was long with with what's his name? Sun Rene Obershon
was Sun, Yes, Remi obersion was yes, Yes, good memories
and impressive. You told me you didn't remember anything. That's
not true, you know in that peppermil had come in
(21:44):
the right time. That was like our first real true
coffee shop. Really, I mean, there's there's one in the pilot,
but we're at the Chinese restaurant right right, right, right
right right, very brief.
Speaker 2 (21:55):
Oh, but so only at the Chinese restaurant. Yeah, there
was that Where was that? Remember there was that diner?
Speaker 5 (22:01):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (22:01):
On Long Island City? And when what episode is that?
I mean I feel like Skipper goes there with Carrie.
So someone goes there with Gary and I'm like, there's
a diner. There's a diner that we use. That's a
real diner Stanford, remember the place. They would like put
us in the van and drive us over there. And
it was kind of not the cleanest I don't want
to say anything, right.
Speaker 2 (22:22):
We were like, oh, there's very interesting tile on the walls.
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Very I mean ugly would be a word. Ugly would
be a word.
Speaker 3 (22:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
That didn't last long. It didn't last long at all.
But the other thing I think when I look back
on these early episodes is to me, New York looks
so different. It looks like it's the eighties, you know
what I mean. Like it's like and the cars and
like in this particular in the episode twenty something Guys
or Value of the twenty something Guys, you know, we
go to these bars right like downstairs and they're just
(22:51):
like nothing. They're just like a dark room right in
the basement. It's so eighties. Yeah, so interesting to me.
I don't really remember it, Like I don't know where
we are. I have no idea, no memory of that, right,
And Charlotte doesn't really get to go very often, like
the first, you guys are in chaos that can't remember chaos.
(23:11):
I don't know if it was a real place or not.
I don't think probably in the pilot. Yeah, but you're there.
That's when Skipper comes and you push him up up
against the wall. It's so good, Right, that's a pilot.
I think it's excellent, excellent, But I'm not there. I'm
with that dude up on the stairs of the met right, yeah, right,
just thinking I'm on like the perfect date. And then
he goes, oh, has sex with Samantha. I know, poor
(23:34):
Charlotte's mess. So wait, let's get back to you. Let's
get back to you. So we start the pilot. You
you did feel like it was the holy Grail. So
you had a sense that it was amazing, well for
me because I was at a point like I had
a kid and like an uh like I just bought
an apartment, and like I needed to earn some money. Yeah,
(23:55):
like and and so much so that after literally twenty
years of saying I will not audition for anything that
shoots in la you know, like a long term or
even really sure you know, yeah, I was like, get
me a TV show, and it was like, here's a
TV show here. Wow, that's so great.
Speaker 2 (24:14):
Yeah, you know, so I did feel like it was
the holy Grail.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
Yeah yeah. And when we actually did the pilot, did
you feel like wow, wow, wow or did you feel like,
oh my god. I always thought it was all great.
I just thought it was all great.
Speaker 2 (24:29):
You know, I thought, how am I gonna be this like,
you know, sexy person that's like going on all these
like never dated, I had like long term relationship.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
I never remember you saying this, Yeah right. I also
remember you saying I never had like girlfriends where we
would like go around and kind of like be powerful like.
Speaker 2 (24:50):
This or flirty flirty right, my my my girlfriends. Right,
we're not ever out on the prowl, and we never were.
We're like my friends from h school. We like hang
out with the boys in our high school.
Speaker 1 (25:03):
You know what I mean, as I do. It was
not like we'd go and meet strangers and go to
bed with them. I know, I know, I know. It's
super interesting to look at the beginning episodes, like there's
a you know, like a it's very sex positive, which
is wonderful before we ever called it that, but also
like an openness like a you know, Everyone's not everyone.
(25:28):
I guess Charlotte's not, but like Carrie especially like a
value of the twins something guys, you know, I mean,
it's it's very interesting.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Well, so remember there was all this stuff. I don't
know if you've spoken about this yet, but there was
all this stuff.
Speaker 1 (25:41):
There was this backlash.
Speaker 2 (25:43):
Where people were sort of some people were like horrified, right,
and said, these aren't women, right, women don't act like this,
women don't talk like this, women don't have this kind
of lack of inhibition and lack of sentimental romantic no necessity.
Speaker 1 (26:02):
Right, these are gay men disguised. If you remember this,
it was great and trouble right, it was very annoying.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
And I also remember, and I don't remember what season
it was, where we had a reporter like, we're all
four of us were talking to this person on time
and the reporter said, do you think this is a
feminist show? And all four of us basically almost took
that person's head off. We were like, well, of course
(26:31):
it's a feminist show. What's wrong with you? Yes, we're
all feminists. It's a feminist show. What would it be
if it wasn't a feminist show? Because we're wearing lipstick
and high heels. It's not a feminist show. What's wrong
with You?
Speaker 1 (26:46):
Absolutely, But I do think that that also reminds me
of the different times, you know, and the fact that
we were not there was no blueprint for us, you know,
and and that in some ways is I think this
kind of magic about us coming together and HBO allowing
us to find ourselves and then also being able to
(27:07):
do the movies and then also being able to do
and just like that, I mean, like there is no blueprint,
there is nothing else.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
But you know what, it's really funny for me because,
as I said, I started acting when I was like
eleven twelve, and one of the very first things that
I did was this movie All Little Darlings, which is
starring Tatum O'Neill and Christy McNicol. And then there are
six of us who aren't those two people.
Speaker 1 (27:30):
So they're eight.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Young women amazing, and we're all like, we're all supposed
to be like mid teens, I would say, and some
of us like me or twelve as I'm tall, and
other people are like eighteen, but they're playing fifteen whatever.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
We're all playing like yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
And it's about two girls who don't like each other
at summer camp and somebody starts a bet to see
which one of them can lose their virginity first. Wow,
And all the rest of us line up with one
or the other and there's lots of betting on it,
and who camp.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
Right gets involved.
Speaker 4 (28:03):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (28:03):
And this was a very popular, successful movie that it's like,
very dear to a lot of people's hearts. But when
it came out, I remember one review that started, now
here's a disgusting idea for a movie, right, Critics were horrified,
And this was like literally twenty years later, and it
(28:24):
was I was like, it was deja vue for me.
It was like, here are women who are talking about
sex and the possibilities of sex with their female friends
and then going out and assertively pursuing it. And audiences
are like, wow, cool and critics are.
Speaker 1 (28:43):
Like, ew, so crazy. It's but I.
Speaker 2 (28:48):
Mean I think that that's I mean, you know, it's
a show that women and gay men have always particularly
you know, embraced. But we would hear again and again
and again. Was first on was like the men want
to watch it too, and the girlfriends get them to
watch it, or the wives get them to watch it,
(29:10):
and then they're fascinated and they love it and they're entertained.
But also then it sparks all these conversations about this
semi taboo stuff that maybe if you're dating somebody you
wouldn't talk about it because you'd be shy or something,
but it's happening.
Speaker 1 (29:27):
In the episode. So it's a perfect right, right, like
the up the butt stuff in the right. Of course,
everyone likes to say all the things that embarrass me.
But yes, very good example. And also such a fun
fun memory, so great, such a great memory and such
a funny I mean, now that I look back on it,
(29:47):
which I didn't really compute this or whatever. That's really
my first storyline, like where it's like a beginning, middle,
and end right, like Carrie's like, you know, and then
Charlotte has a new boyfriend and we see him and
I'm like, did I tell you it wants to buy
a painting, and you guys are like, oh, you know,
And then we do that scene. No, then we do
the seat then a caller right, and she's like, oh, Charlotte,
I got to run out of the house, right, And
(30:07):
I'm like she's like, I'll be right there. And then
we're in that big cab. Do you remember it was
like a nineteen seventies cab and Alice in the director
and Maurice who's French, the DP who I could never
say her name. Right, they're in the front seat. Do
you remember this with the handhad They're in the front
seat like on the floor. That's how big the cab
was that they could do that, and they would like
pop their heads up and give us direction as we're
(30:29):
driving around, then pop back down. And then we added
you guys. And I remember being so fun but also
being so even just like mortified to say the words
out loud. Yeah that I kept messing it up, like
I can't remember that say the words because the first
time I say it is just sir, Jessica with me, right,
it's just carry with me, And I had so not
said it in rehearsal. Do you remember how we used
(30:50):
to run our lines all the time, which I told
Michael Michaels like I didn't know this. I was like, wait,
we were so scared that we weren't gonna talk fast
enough for you.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Yeah, I mean at least I was right. So we
remember we were in the make Taylor just running, running, running, running, running.
Do you remember this? Did they have us do that?
Did they have us watch some like his Gal Friday
or something? I think you did, And I don't think
anyone told us to. I know, I think that was
your creative you know, thought process, right. And also I
was I told you I was going to tell you this.
(31:17):
I do think this is when you started saying to
me quietly like, not my medium, not my medium, because
we'd be in some complex thing where they'd say like,
and then you find the lens, and then you move
forward and you find the lens.
Speaker 2 (31:31):
And you just be like, not my media, right, And
I'd be like, it is getting the mark, finding the lens, continuity.
Speaker 1 (31:37):
These have never been my strong suits. Well they are now.
Well that's very kind, it's true. But number two, I mean,
first of all, I see those early episodes. You're like
spot On, I mean, you're amazing, So you know some
of it, I think it's just your own mind. But
I also think also it is obviously a very different experience.
Doing a show is a very different experience than even
(32:01):
just a film. You know, Well, it's right, It's it's
not like one long arc.
Speaker 2 (32:05):
It's like every week or every two weeks or whatever
it was, we got a new script and new things happened.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
Definitely, new things happened. Also, we film a lot quicker,
especially back then. I remember we would film like so
many scenes in a day, and it was that was
partly why it was so complicated, right because we couldn't
like stop, like now now it and just like that
we do we take some time, you know, to you know,
do the singles and whatever. But back then we were
like on the go. Do you remember they used to
(32:32):
like wheel those huge lights down the street, you know,
from one location to the other. Like it was kind
of amazing to think about, like gorilla filmmaking a little bit.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Right, you know, in such crazy hours, like crazy hour,
never less than fifteen hours, often seventeen eighteen hours until
the same came up.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Yeah, I talked about it a little bit like back
then we felt like we we shouldn't say that. Do
you remember, like it was so long, right, like because
I remember how we shouldn't complain, Yeah, we should we
shouldn't complain, Yeah, because remember how people just come up
(33:07):
and be like it is so much fun. Like once
it started to kind of you know, take off, and
we'd be like yes, like as we're like, you know, fainting,
you know, as we're just so tired, right, But we
couldn't really say that. We thought our feet, yes, and
our feet. I mean, you know, I told them the story.
I had the bigger sized shoes for the weekend. My
tennis shoes were bigger so that I could like let
my little swollen feet rest. Yeah, because remember how we
(33:30):
would film till the sun rose and then start at
five am on Monday. You had this tiny little window
and you had a whole life. It was I think
eight months when we did the pilot. Exactly how did
you do that? Well? I don't know. I mean the pilot.
Speaker 2 (33:47):
What I think of is when we were getting ready,
when we've been picked up and we were getting ready
to do the second episode, right, the first episode of
our first season.
Speaker 1 (33:59):
Do you remember this? They so we shot in Silver Cup,
which is in Long Island City, and all of us
were living in Manhattan, right, I mean, Kristen had an
apartment in Manhattan, and they decided that we were going
to take the subway to work.
Speaker 5 (34:13):
Oh my god, do you remember that. It was like,
we're not going to pick you all up. You have
to get here on your own. And so I think
I was coming for fittings or something, coming from.
Speaker 1 (34:29):
Hitting where the where we were in the Where Island
city at the time.
Speaker 2 (34:33):
Maybe well, this is before Google Maps, right, it is
a confusing, windy place. And so and my kid at
that point is I think like it's teen months or something.
I'm not sure how old he is. And my father
has just died. He has died of like weeks before.
(34:58):
And my father was living in Mexico. So I don't
speak Spanish. I've gone down there. My boyfriend was sick.
I went down there by myself with my kid, not
speaking Spanish, to try and deal with his not only
his death. I mean he was cremated, so that wasn't
a big but you know, his belongings to his finance,
everything right, And so I came back. I'm coming for
(35:19):
this fitting where they've Shelley, remember Shelley. Shelley told me
that I had to take the subway or whatever. And
so I take my kid strapped to me on the
subway with all the diaper bags and whatnot, and I
get off the train in Long Island City and I
can't find it, and I'm walking around the streets and
(35:39):
I call Shelley and I'm like, Shelley, I have my
you know, fifteen month old. My father has just died.
I'm wandering around. Can someone please just pick me up?
So I think they gave up on the subway idea.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
I think that must have been somewhere close to me
trying to also do the same thing with not a child,
but just my really challenge, you're not. I mean I
used to live here. It never you know, it's just
a challenge that I have right in wherever I am.
(36:16):
It's a challenge. And there was no phones to be doing.
There was no Google Maps, and there was no maps nothing.
And I had never in my life even heard of
Long Island City. I was like, I don't understand, like
just where are we? I just don't understand.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
It's like a place where you assumed a lot of
like snuff films, anything could happen. What's happening behind those
doors exactly?
Speaker 1 (36:39):
So I had gone tried to go to my fitting
sometime probably like the same day or next day or whatever.
It was raining, and I'm just wandering, you know, like
a little lost wet kitten, you know, like help me,
help me, anyone and then crying, you know, like finally,
like I think, Shelley, also, I don't even know if
(37:04):
I'm in longand City, like you know what I'm saying,
like all of it. And then she was like, yes,
Cynthia had a problem too. I was like, you know,
maybe you guys should send him. Remember the sixteen seater
that we did end up spending a lot of time anyway,
I do remember that. And I was like, if Cynthia
had a problem, I don't feel so bad, you know.
(37:26):
But then remember how we both lived on the Upper
West Side. Yes, and they would pictu us that blocks
from the blocks from each other, thank god, and they
would pick us up together, which is really fun. And
what Cynthia very kindly would run lines with me because
remember those times when I had those big speeches, yes,
like like very didactic, like soap boxy, like I'm gonna
get married and I'm going to follow this book and
(37:47):
I'm so hard and you know, we I talked to
Michael a little bit about like the word perfect. You know,
we had to be perfect. We still have to be perfect.
And comedy is very precise, you know, so I get that,
but it's sometimes challenging and Cynthia God bless her heart,
because I live by myself, right, so like you can
only somewhat do so much work in your own head,
(38:10):
you know, to a certain extent, and then what would
happen is We'd get there and I'd get nervous and
I'd like just freeze up. So on the way down
town or to Silver Cup or whatever, Cynthia Wood run
lines with me so sweetly. Really saved myself so much.
That was fun, and like we were like kids. That's
the other thing that cracks me up when we watch,
(38:32):
Like do you I don't know how you think about this,
but like we look like little children. Well, yes, we're
very beautiful, but also so I have still you know,
baby fat no, well I mean from my baby right,
But also I have literally pimple on my chin like simples.
(38:55):
Take a look, my guy still have acne. Hysterical. But
the thing that's so funny is that I remember thinking,
because I was living in LA before we filmed, right,
and I remember thinking, like, you know, I got to
get a job because like we don't have a lot
of time here. You know, this is back when like
when you were forty, which I don't think you probably
felt because you were a very theater and theater, thank god,
goes on forever, but like you had this sense of
(39:16):
like time is ticking, you've got to like make the
most of it because you're not going to last long.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
Well, I mean, that's the thing is like now we
look like such babies, but at the time that was
part of the point of the show that we weren't kids.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
I know, that's what's so funny to me. But we were.
We were like mature women.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
We had these careers and we were at a point
when you know, Charlotte or other people in previous or
you know, we're like, why aren't you marriedly getting married?
Speaker 1 (39:45):
Were you going to marry? Absolutely? Actually, and in the
value of the twenty sething guys, when they cut to
the guys on the basketball court, which is one of
the most enjoyable, I know, it's finally like for me,
that's when the other people talking clicks in right in
a great way. All these guys and they're not so
horrible like in the every man is just like horrible, horrible,
(40:06):
So finally some of them are kind of likable and
one of them, you know, I think it starts the
basketball confessionals and he says, you know the great thing
about women in their thirties is they're just so grateful.
I'm like, wow, where we're gonna go, the journey we're
gonna go on? People? Oh my god? Who would have
(40:28):
ever thought? Yeah? Right? Yeah? And back then, I remember
also feeling because when I was auditioning, I would always
just lie about my age, Like whatever age the character was,
you'd pick like a year older or a you're younger,
and that's how old you'd say you were. At least
that's what I did. Huh. That's what all my friends
did in La. Wow. So for me, I was like, oh,
thank god, we're playing women are our thirties. I can
stop lying. You know. It's so exciting, right, Like it
(40:51):
was such a weight off my mind. And look at us,
I'm like, we're like little tiny babies. No, little tiny babies.
Speaker 2 (40:58):
But I think I think the you know, how much
sex we're having and going out and meeting people and
going out on dates and just picking people up, right,
there's all that which is different, and it's that it's
not it's not. I mean, I don't there is really
nothing to compare us to. I mean, what are you
going comparis to Charlie's Angels. I mean right, right, No,
(41:20):
there is a stretch man.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Right, I mean they don't talk to each other, right,
I mean then they also don't date. I mean they
I guess they don't think they shut around, right, But
I think that's the thing, is like we're having all
this sex with all these different men that were actively pursuing,
and we're talking.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
To each other about it, right, It's like we're together.
It's like Bechdel to the MH degree.
Speaker 1 (41:44):
Yes, And that's what was so so special and amazing
about it. Now, let's talk about themes. Part of the
reason I wanted to do Are You a Charlotte was
because it seems like, I mean, first of all, you
know Netflix, We're on Netflix now, which is like we
could never have imagined these things, right, and all these
younger peop people are finding us, which is so exciting
and really kind of amazing and wonderful. And the themes
(42:05):
are still so resonant today. Yes, totally, and it's kind
of just a testament to our writing, you know, and
to just the I mean, it was kind of just
bravery on I guess. Well, but have you talked about
the thing about the one degree of separation thing about well,
you know that they had this rule in the writer's room.
(42:27):
Oh yeah, that.
Speaker 2 (42:29):
You know, fantastical things happen on our show Crazy Zany,
like wow, cover your mouth, you're so shocked kind of things, right,
But that they had a rule in the writer's room
that you could only make a plot line around something
that had literally happened to you or someone you knew.
It can be like my friend's dentist's cast. I heard
(42:53):
this I had one time. Right, it had to be
you experienced it, or someone that you could get on
the phone and ask them about it in detail.
Speaker 1 (43:02):
It happened to them.
Speaker 2 (43:03):
So, I mean, I do think that that's one of
the reasons it really endures, is like it's the stuff
around it, even though it's it's real, even though it's like, oh.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
My god, can you believe what happened on the show
last night?
Speaker 2 (43:17):
Right, but it's it's it's real, and people really, you know,
put them the writers really put themselves in it and
located the good and bad and funny and whatever say
things that were happening to right.
Speaker 1 (43:33):
Right right, So true. But when you think back on
the themes, like what do you think of in terms
of like Miranda's themes or you know, what stands out
to you. What do you think of as your favorite
themes or your favorite relationships or things like that. Hmmm,
I know it's hard, so so so hmmm.
Speaker 2 (43:49):
I mean I think maybe this is not what you're
talking about, but I mean, like the overarching theme is,
obviously we're not sitting by the phone waiting for a
man to call in and ask us to marry him.
Speaker 1 (44:03):
Right, It's like we possibly Charlotte is well, possibly Charlotte,
but then she but she's aggressively pursuing it, you know,
Susa pursuing it, and she and there's part of her
that that has this marriage goal in mind, but she
also kind of wants to experiment. And she's certainly more
experimental than you realize. And sure she really is. And
(44:24):
I remember, of course we did the thing.
Speaker 2 (44:27):
They had a thing in a magazine about who had
had the most It was the book.
Speaker 1 (44:31):
It was a book. It was a tell in the
back of the book. But it wasn't it. It had
all the sure, wasn't it.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Even before there was a magazine article. You're resting how
many sex partners each of them they had and that Charlotte, surprisingly,
I know one had been with Marmon.
Speaker 1 (44:47):
But I also think that is what I love about
when we think back, And I kind of was aware
of this at the time because like, for instance, you
weren't Miranda, right, so you playing Miranda, you brought different
things to it. You brought kind of some friction to it.
Sara Jessica is not Carrie, you know, and she didn't
want to show her body all the time, you know,
(45:08):
So it created kind of a friction. Like all of
us being together and being such different people created kind
of an interesting friction. Charlotte wanted to get married, but
also being the one who literally has the most you know,
hookups or whatever. It's interesting, right, Like, it wasn't as
much as people think that we were archetypes and whatnot,
which I get right, right, It really was more complex
(45:30):
than that, and certainly, like the underlying thing as opposed
to what we were showing, I think created a depth
and a like a frision kind of right.
Speaker 2 (45:41):
So I feel like in terms of Miranda, obviously she's
very she's very smart, she's very quippy, she's very cynical,
she's very driven, she's all about her work, and getting ahead,
right and competing with men on an equal footing. I'm
(46:03):
interested in having sex, but she really has thought not
at all about the idea of marriage or long term monogamy,
much less children or anything like that.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
Which is so great how it unfolds, right, yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:19):
And so so the fun thing about her has always
been that she has this really tough, armored exterior, but
that she has all this fragility side right, And so
I feel like, for me, the turning point from Miranda was,
(46:42):
I believe it's Jenny Bick's first episode. That's one of
our writers, and when she first came on board, she
wrote the episode where Miranda buys her first apartment.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
That's a good one, right, yeah, And it's like, as
a single woman, what does that mean? Is that intimidating
to a man when you when you already own and
you're not waiting for him to buy something with him
that you choose together, right, And that Miranda is really
determined and excited, But then it brings up all of
these demons for her about what does this mean buying
(47:17):
this apartment? Does this mean I'll always be alone?
Speaker 2 (47:20):
And she and I'll die alone and like no one
will know and the cat will eat my face. Right,
it's so good, it's so great, and she starts to
have these panic attacks, which.
Speaker 1 (47:30):
Seem very Unmeranda.
Speaker 2 (47:33):
And you know, and in the same way that Michael
Patrick talks about with Charlotte, Charlotte is a beautiful, intelligent, warm,
career person who wants to get married. And so Michael
Patrick says, at a certain point, even though it's about
single women, we got a let her get married because
(47:53):
we just can't believe we lost.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
It's incredulous, right, she she want to get married. She's
gonna get married, right, and then it's not going to
work out, that's the point. So and the same with Miranda.
Speaker 2 (48:07):
He was like, how much how brittle and bitter can
we make her? It's like, finally she is gonna just break,
so we have to Finally.
Speaker 1 (48:21):
I guess it's season two. I'm not sure.
Speaker 2 (48:24):
You know, they bring in Steep, right, somebody who is
like the antidote like to all of the who is
happy to be the beta to her alpha, right, and
who is so into her that she doesn't doubt him.
And it's just he's like he's sexy, but he's also
(48:46):
just very devoted and it's a. It's a it's a
place where she can land. That's a wonderful place to be,
and it's not threatening. He's not competing with her for supremacy,
and she doesn't feel like you might walk away and
break her heart.
Speaker 1 (49:05):
Right. Oh, and what a great character. Great character, great character.
I know, I know, all right. So I could talk
to Cynthia for many, many hours, as you can tell.
So we're going to make this into two episodes. You guys,
please tune in to the next one.
Host
Kristin Davis
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